The ethics of buying a goat

Scrub Nurse says:

06:13am | 13/01/10

I also used to give monetary donations to the Salvos and also if I was throwing out clothes that were still good like woollen jumpers and woollen blankets, I’d give it to them rather than one of the others, because of all the great work they do. That was until my husband started working at the tip and came home really angry one day. He went to the tip face to empty his truck and there were two large Salvos trucks dumping bags, which one closer inspection, were clothes. When hubby saw this happening EVERY WEEK, he decided to open some of the bags properly and just see what was in there. What he saw disgusted him. BRAND NEW baby clothes, still with labels on them. As new or brand new mens and womens clothing and good fashionable stuff too. There were also some hand knitted jumpers that had clearly hardly, if ever, been worn. I got some nice new clothes that day. What made him even angrier, was this was in winter and there wasn’t only good quality warm clothes in a cold climate area with sub zero temps, there were also woollen blankets and other assorted quilts that didn’t appear to have a mark on them. Most of the employees took something that day, even though they’re not supposed to. It was too good stuff to be buried. This was taking place the same time the ads were on the TV begging for warm clothes and blankers. Hubby no longer drives the garbage truck, but the Salvos still take 2 trucks of stuff there every week.
If they are such a great charity, why do they throw such good stuff out? I know they get given a lot of garbage, but tip employees had checked numerous times after and they still found good quality items.
I don’t give to them anymore.

TDMJ says:

01:11pm | 12/01/10

http://www.givewell.com.au is an excellent Australian site that provides much of the information you might seek about reputable Australian charities, how they’re run and how funds are used, etc. ...  I’m not associated with the company but after along career working with various charities, I’d definitely hesitate to give to any charity that’s not listed on there ...

Renee says:

12:46pm | 12/01/10

Thanks for sharing that link, SS. I’ve only ever tried Opportunity Internation for microfinancing, but I’ve heard Kiva is fantastic.

SS says:

12:36pm | 12/01/10

Within Australia I donate or sponsor a child’s education. Outside of Australia I give microloans - LOANS, not gifts. I use and recommend: http://www.kiva.org

Renee says:

12:18pm | 12/01/10

@ Q.E.D. - the Global Food Crisis is indeed going into its second year and more people are hungry than in the 70s. But it’s also due to a whole heap of factors; experts say that contributing factors include the use of biofuels, climate change, and greed, on top of overpopulation. Given this, not bothering to do anything unfortunately doesn’t help the situation at all - there are other issues besides corrupt governments that are causing such horrendous poverty. Also, like I said in my previous comment, population control is difficult, when the reason families in poorer nations are often large is because of poverty in the first place. Reduce poverty, increase education, and you will often see that the cycle breaks.

It is difficult to simply say “nothing has changed, in fact it’s probably worse!” I’m not sure what your school did with that money, or what charity it went to. If you give wisely, you DO see positive change. I have seen my family’s sponsored child go through the World Vision sponsorship program and her community now is self-sufficient. Under that program, it takes (I think? a bit rusty on these stats) 8-12 years for new training and funds to help a community to be able to run itself. Microfinancing is also an amazing way to bring someone out of poverty; giving loans for families to start businesses is a brilliant idea in my opinion.

If you were a person in the richer part of a country with many of its people still in poverty (say, India or China), would you think differently, now that those in poverty there would be a ‘local issue’?

Still, great that you are concentrating on issues of poverty within Australia. You can’t do everything about every problem. It’s more important that you’re doing everything you can about something

Alison Amos says:

07:22pm | 11/01/10

I bought my dad a goat for Christmas.  Even if the money does go to a ‘farming program’, I would much rather that then spend the $50 on crap from a store that he doesn’t want or need.  I felt good too - and you don’t get that that feeling very often when buying Christmas presents.

Q.E.D. says:

03:13pm | 11/01/10

@ Renee 03:01 pm
“Surely we can be “multitasking” and working towards eradicating poverty no matter where it is?”

Sure. But I remember when I was a primary school in the early 70s and we collected money for the starving children in Ethiopia. Nothing has changed, in fact it’s probably worse! Accountable governments and population control is the way to go; just not sure how that could come about, beyond a benevolent dictatorship :-(

I will still concentrate on local issues.

stephen says:

02:19pm | 11/01/10

If yer don’t wanna give money to charity -or time- just smile at your bus driver. That should ease your conscience.

Renee says:

02:17pm | 11/01/10

To “Don’t believe everything charities tell you ” - I only ever receive letters from the hardworking staff who work with my sponsored children, who made the effort of writing down what the children, who were too young/had not been taught to read or write, wanted to say. Their letters would then be translated by another staff worker so that I could understand them. I’ve even seen photos of the staff workers in the middle of this tiring but loving process!! It’s sad to think that a charity might deliberately try to dupe you.

Renee says:

02:01pm | 11/01/10

Agreed - jumping to conclusions has always been a poor form of exercise.
Especially if taking a better read of a charity program reveals that many of these “gift giving” programs run by agencies actually go towards that area of development. I.e. “buying a goat” for $49 means that the “goat” you have bought is actually representative of a $49 gift towards agricultural programs. Or a “set of pencils” is a $5 to gift towards educational programs. You get the idea. In some charity programs, the “goat” or whatever else you’re getting is referred to as a “representative” of your donation - I was pleased to see that this was made very clear in the World Vision Smiles catalogue repeatedly!

Organisations that do this get my full support, especially since it is providing people a very concrete way of giving donations to admirable aid agencies as gifts at Christmas time etc.

Eric, you are right - all charities should publish reports of where exactly their money guys. I like to support organisations I know are externally audited, and where I know a large proportion of my money goes to the people.

Jade - while giving canned goods, blankets etc. is great, it’s not the most helpful necessarily when it comes to overseas aid for a number of reasons. Firstly, transport costs are huge if everything is to be moved overseas. Also, monetary donations, if used appropriately, can be used to purchase goods from the country that needs help, again helping out their economy. So while it’s great having some peace of mind knowing that your gifts are being received, it may be even more helpful to receive this peace of mind when you investigate charities closely to see how they spend their money before giving financial donations. Don’t stop giving canned goods or clothing though to charities that serve the poor in our own country, though! Keep up the good work

SLF - there are a huge number of reasons why families in third world countries have so many children. These include them taking into account child mortality, desperate families wanting more workers on their farms etc, a lack of education about sexual health, no social security or guarantee that they’ll be looked after when they are old etc. etc. etc. So in fact it’s often the case that the poverty itself has caused issues of overpopulation. Can’t solve that problem if you don’t tackle the other issues of poverty as well, unfortunately.

QED - it is true that we have problems within our own country, and it is very important that we support groups that serve the homeless in Australia. But dare I say Australia is a nation with people who have the heart and the brains to realise we are also part of a global community as well? Surely we can be “multitasking” and working towards eradicating poverty no matter where it is?

Don't believe everything charities tell you says:

01:58pm | 11/01/10

I sponsored a chid once, and even received a hand written Christmas card from him one year. Imagine my surprise 12 months later when he sent me another Christmas card, in totally different handwriting.

Needless to say, i no longer give money to that charity.

The Badger says:

01:45pm | 11/01/10

Try to keep up - Just because you say it’s os, don’t make it so. Can you show me the proof that the Salvo’s have been paid by the police?  Point me to the proof of your statement!

Patrick Raphael says:

01:27pm | 11/01/10

If you watch much late-night TV you might be overwhelmed with number of advertisements for various local and international charities, and you realise how many worthy causes there are out there.

It’s very hard to know where to give. Overseas charities, I would think, win out on needing the most. In Australia we are lucky enough to have only a relatively small number of people living in all out poverty. At the same time, why would I give money to those impoverished overseas, when there are still too many homeless on the streets of our cities?

In the end, the choice is a personal one, but it should also be informed.

Try to keep up says:

12:42pm | 11/01/10

Badger,

The Salvos get paid by the Police (and other emergency services) to provide this ‘tea and bickie wagon’.  It not only provides a very valuable service to the hard working emergency services personnel but provides a steady revenue for groups like the Salvos.

Jumping to conclusions has always been a poor form of exercise.

Razor says:

11:58am | 11/01/10

I have been given a goat - twice.

Frankly the relatives who did that for us give crap presents anyway.

What did piss me off was that they didn’t give me the Receipt to claim a tax deduction with - kept that for themselves didn’t they!

SLF says:

10:07am | 11/01/10

Instead of money, goats or anything else, perhaps the best gift would be contraception so that the perpetual cycle of people being born into war, poverty, misery, famine and disease could be broken?

All the donations currently made do nothing to get rid of the twin elephants in the room of over population and corrupt governments, they simply keep people reliant upon overseas aid. Sorry if that seems harsh.

The Badger says:

10:02am | 11/01/10

Eric, you are spot on. 95% of the money can be consumed by the “collecting” agency. The collecting agency can be a business working on behalf of a charitable organisation, collecting the money and less than 5% actually goes to the “charitable organisation”. Wayne, I used to give my money to the Salvos as well. Then, one day I saw the Salvos set up a tea and bickie wagon to serve the police, who were pulling people over at random to vehicle and paperwork check on motorists. I have never given the Salvos another cent.

Sam says:

09:58am | 11/01/10

Excellent piece.

Q.E.D. says:

09:27am | 11/01/10

Salvos and Smith family for me. We have problems on our own doorstep.

Probably best to spend money to support a coup, rather than a goat.

Jade says:

09:21am | 11/01/10

Instead of giving money I would rather give goods like canned food or clothes and things that are going to directly benefit the recepiant, at least i know they will get it.

T.Chong says:

07:25am | 11/01/10

Sounds a bit patronising, more in tune with what affluent westerners believe that people in developing nations need.
The goat may be cute, but is hardly applicable as the fix all.
Money, and lots of it, with the transparency and accountability Eric suggests would be a lot more applicable.
The goat seems to be just one step above the colored beads, and way below the programs like clean water and health access that is needed to help turn things around for so many.

Wayne Hutchins says:

05:39am | 11/01/10

I only give my money to the Salvo’s. I know they do good work….

Eric says:

05:23am | 11/01/10

All charities should be required to disclose the percentages of money received that are spent on administration, publicity, and other expenses. A disturbingly large number of organisations consume the bulk of donations internally, leaving little for the intended recipients.