Okay, so this is a delicate topic. How a woman ‘should’ give birth is such an emotion-charged issue because it’s something a woman has imagined since the moment she found out where babies come from.

Dannii Minogue and partner Chris Smith from the star's Twitter page after her home birth last week.

If I am brutally honest, there are two camps of women here: one group of very vocal women who are yet to give birth, who are probably pregnant and have a very detailed birth plan (right down to scented candles and essentials oils). The other (far more realistic) group of women are the ones who know that a birth plan gets shot to shit when it’s crunch time.

And by crunch time, I mean that pivotal moment when you scream, “Please get this baby out of my body immediately, or I will kill someone.” (Not that I said this. In fact, I am surprised that for someone who likes profanities, I didn’t call my husband any names or tell him it was ‘his fault’. And whatever else Hollywood makes you believe is ‘normal’ during an intense delivery).

The first I’d heard of a birth plan was when I was pregnant. I’d always (naïvely) assumed the doctor would be the one making that decision. Turns out, I wasn’t so naïve after all. More on that later.

The issue on ‘how to give birth’ hit the news again a few days ago when it was reported that Dannii Minogue’s carefully scripted birth plan, the one she’d written on scented, embossed paper (I don’t know if this is true… but you can’t imagine ‘the plan’ on a yellow Post-It, right?) which included a home birth, was promptly turfed and she was ‘rushed to hospital’, undergoing an emergency caesarean instead.

Now. Let’s be clear, here. The very fact you are pregnant is a miracle in itself (something you only really appreciate when you start wanting a family). Then, the joy of having healthy babies is one surpassed by nothing else in life (again, only relevant if having kids is something important in your world). So how to give birth should be a no-brainer. Everyone wants the same end result: a healthy baby and a healthy mother. Because we have options to go natural (vaginal birth, no drugs), natural but with drugs (epidural, gas, etc), caesarean, or a home birth means that women not only have myriad choices, it also makes choosing one that much harder. The key here is to acknowledge that often the choice is taken out of your hands.

Have you seen the movie Knocked Up, when Katherine Heigl’s character is giving birth? No, not that scene when the baby’s head is crowning. Before that, when she’s in the throes of excruciating pain and demands an epidural. Trouble is, it’s too far along in the delivery for it to be administered and she has to push ahead (ahem) sans drugs. The funny-but-not-funny part is that she had a well-scripted birth plan, even kicking off the process with a relaxing bath. But as anyone who has given birth will tell you, when you get to the business end of birth, there is nothing Zen-like about it.

I have spoken with lots of women who have given birth, both for my parenting magazine stories and in conversation with my friends (when we are brave enough – and bevvied enough - to go there) and anecdotally what I have found is that women who have undergone an emergency caesarean feel a bit ripped off. As you would. For most women, the pinnacle of childbirth is going the natural route. For the truly heroic, the zenith is pushing out that child without drugs of any sort. But no-one’s plan is: push like a maniac for hours, then go under the knife anyway, and feel that all your efforts were for ‘nothing’. In reality, these women are champions; they should take a bloody bow. The truth is they brought a healthy child into the world; how they did it is no measure of how ‘womanly’ they are.

There are of course women who go the elective caesarean route; unfairly dubbed the ‘too posh to push’ brigade, these are the women who don’t want a caesarean as the last resort; it’s their first choice.

According to the 2005 National Perinatal Statistics Unit Mothers and Babies Report 30.3 per cent of Australian women gave birth by caesarean section compared with 19.5 per cent in 1995.

When I interview Dr Andrew Pesce on the topic – he is an obstetrician and gynaecologist as well as the Australian Medical Association President, plus Chairman for both the National Association of Specialist Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and the National Pregnancy Counselling Expert Advisory Committee – he said that the rise in caesarean births could be attributed to the fact that obstetricians are more likely to recommend a c-section because of the procedure’s improved safety. He also attributes it to more women believing a c-section is a more ‘desirable’ procedure over a vaginal birth. And then there is the litigation factor.

“When obstetricians are sued for a poor outcome, it is almost always for not having performed a caesarean section.”

He also cites a move away from more difficult forceps deliveries as well as a rise in older and obese women giving birth, pointing towards a c-section as a safer option for them.

Accompanying the story on the mini-Minogue birth were figures from the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists which indicated that up to half of all first-time mothers attempting a home birth had to be transferred to hospital due to complications.

While I completely respect a woman’s choice to have a natural, non-interventionist birth, there are options available which reduce the risks associated with giving birth at home - birthing centres led by midwives attached to hospitals are an excellent solution.

As for me? Well, my birthing choices were extremely limited because I was carrying twins. My obstetrician was actually the aforementioned, wonderfully fantastic Dr Pesce (most women are ‘in love’ with their obstetricians. Ask them). He told me I had to have an epidural (there is likely to be manual manipulation prior to the delivery of twin number two) but he wanted me to give a ‘natural’ birth a red hot go. In the end, the pain relief made it possible for me to concentrate on pushing and deliver two healthy babies, 18 minutes apart. Hands down, the most empowering thing I have ever done in my life.

The key? Be very open to things not going to plan on your baby’s birth day. In fact, expect it.

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166 comments

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    • Against the Man says:

      08:02am | 14/07/10

      I respect a woman’s right to decide how and where to have their baby. Home births to me sound reasonable till something goes wrong and a doctor is needed. I believe there should always be a experienced doctor present. Midwives are experienced with labor issues but are not trained to manage medical issues and complicated neonatal issues as well as other emergencies (as far as I know). It is about safety of mother and child not about individual glory.

    • Jamie says:

      08:59am | 14/07/10

      “as far as I know” being the operative phrase ... you’re wrong.

    • DJ says:

      11:46am | 14/07/10

      Jamie - you can’t just state flat out that ATM is wrong, some midwives may not be trained to deal with emergencies, the training may not be up to date, I personally preferred to be in a hospital close to operating theatres and many, many doctors even though I had midwives for most and OBGYN for last (as it was a scheduled c-section)

    • Jamie says:

      12:09pm | 14/07/10

      Yes I can ... tghe stement made was that midwives aren’t trained to handle medical issues.  That is flatly wrong.

    • DJ says:

      12:29pm | 14/07/10

      misinformed would be better, as some of them aren’t trained to deal with them or if they are new can’t handle them, I speak from experience here

    • Muttley says:

      01:28pm | 14/07/10

      No Jamie the statement also said that they are not trained to deal with complicated neonatal issues and other emergencies. You can troll out all the feel good crap you like but once the delivery gets to the emergency stage you had better hope you are in a hospital.

    • papachango says:

      01:59pm | 14/07/10

      jamie - midwives are trained to handle some minor medical issues, but nothing that’s remotely complicated - for example, an emergency ceasarian that might save the life of a baby in a critical situation.

      You are wrong and ATM is right

    • Jamie says:

      02:45pm | 14/07/10

      Of course the’re not trainied to perform caesars?????? What an utterly stupid thing to put forward. They are trained to deliver baby’s.  They are trained to take care of birthing woman.  They are trained to monitor and realise when a birth has erred from what would be considered normal and make decisions based on that.  They are trained to resusitate babys.  They are trained in pre and post natal care.  And you tell me they are not trained in major surgery which could save a babys life? What is your point?  Is it that midwives should be outlawed as they are risky and could kill babys as they cant perform a c-section?  Are you going to pit your opinion and knowledge against theirs? - I think you will lose.

    • papachango says:

      04:10pm | 14/07/10

      Jamie - midwives do a great job assisting normal births. I’m simply saying that, if there are complications during a birth, you want to forget about midwives and immediately get a doctor.

      Midwives do not have the training to manage medical emergencies, and if one occurs it is negligent not to seek medical help immediately.

    • Julie says:

      09:56pm | 14/07/10

      DJ, a midwives training is always up to date.  They, like all nurses, have to do a certain amount of education every year, to keep their registration.  Don’t comment on areas you know nothing about.

    • Dr K says:

      08:19am | 15/07/10

      I guess as an emergency doctor I see the sometimes not so nice consequences of home birth. Midwives are good at what they do but they have limits to what they can handle, advanced obstrics, medical emergencies and neonatal resusitation is best handled by a specialist doctor/experienced doctor in a hospital. Midwives have and know their limits. A few months ago we had a baby present to emergency after a home birthing that had many problems. The baby is alive with a hypoxic brain injury (brain damage due to lack of oxygen to the brain), if the baby was in a hospital there would have been specialist staff on site to reduce this from happening. Time was an issue, the longer you wait the more damage the brain sustains. The mother got what she wanted a natural birth and also what she didn’t want -  a brain damaged baby.

    • DJ says:

      09:28am | 15/07/10

      Julie, I speak from experience, now maybe her training was up to date and she was just incompetent, who knows but it left a sour taste after dealing with good ones to have a dismal one who almost cost me the life of my child, don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about

    • Di says:

      01:35pm | 16/07/10

      Sorry to hear of your poor experience DJ. I am guessing by your posts that that experience was actually IN a hospital?? I think you will find that independent midwives ARE up to date and competent (of course there may always be one somewhere that might not be , but you dont hear of that as often as you do with quack doctors Like Patel, and the Butcher of Bega)

    • BJ says:

      08:12am | 14/07/10

      ‘How to give birth should be a no-brainer. Everyone wants the same end result: a healthy baby and a healthy mother’. You hit the nail on the head with that one sentence. In fact you could have saved yourself some time, that sentence could have been the whole article. Well said.

    • Jamie says:

      09:04am | 14/07/10

      Surely if you want a “healthy baby and a healthy mother” one of the things to avoid would be unnecesary intervention ... elective c section/epidural resulting in forceps delivery which cracks coxis/pethadene causing baby to be born flat.  The evidence is quite clear - things do occasionally go wrong which require medical intervention and thank christ in those circumstances for well trained professionals including obstetricians.  But aside from those instances if your looking for that end result of “healthy baby, healthy mum” the best bet is as little intervention as possible.

    • julia says:

      10:04am | 14/07/10

      Here we go. The purists are saying that a c-section will make your child fat.
      Could we consider that size does matter when it comes to a baby and a woman’s birth canal?

      The reason the infant mortality rate in Australia has dropped over the past 50 years is because of intervention - planned intervention. Oh, and mothers don’t tend to die as much either.

      Pethedine makes your child fat… where do you get this rubbish?

    • Jamie says:

      11:03am | 14/07/10

      I used the term “fLat” ... not fat.

      And I am not a purist ... I just subscribe to a logical outlook.

    • Sally says:

      11:23am | 14/07/10

      Julia - Pethadine doesnt make your baby fat!! But babies born when the mother has had pethadine are more often than not born FLAT(in need of resus) as stated by Jamie.

    • MK says:

      12:33pm | 14/07/10

      I haven’t had kids yet, so I can’t speak from existing experience and should I have children, yes, anything could happen - I’ve witnessed the birth of two of my god children and that had me convinced. But I’ll be one of those people opting FOR intervention, namely because women in my family have a history of troublesome births and because I’m naturally petite and a natural birth could result in 1. A dislocated hip and 2. A stressed out baby (speaking in very plain terms here). I’m going to make decisions as to whatever would keep any children I intend to have and to a certain extent, myself, as safe and healthy as possible. If that’s illogical, then that’s perfectly fine by me.

    • Hev says:

      03:31pm | 14/07/10

      Yep, I reckon that sums it up. I’m having my first baby in September and my birth plan will consist of two points:

      1. Turn up to the hospital.
      2. Get the baby out.

      It almost certainly won’t be written on lavender scented paper. In fact, it probably won’t even be written on a post-it note. It will most likely involve me screaming point 2 at the top of my lungs after achieving point 1.

    • SM says:

      09:50am | 15/07/10

      Im with you Hev!
      My specialist asked me what my birth plan was and it was exactly that:
      A) Turn up
      B) Get baby out
      He said to me that so many women have unrealistic expectations of childbirth and also assume that nothing will ever go wrong. Women still do die in childbirth and children still get injured- so I think it makes sense to use your head and try to find the best way to have a sucessful birth.  I turned up to the hospital - a midwife was assigned to me and she asked me what I had planned. I said ‘well, I figure as you are a midwife you can guide me and we can just take one step at a time’. She said my attitude would make the labour fun - man it hurt as I didnt take drugs or anything like that but it was sort of fun - I laughed a lot throughout it because she was realistic (‘well, your snappy now so that means the bub is coming down lol). She was super but when things got rough (he got stuck) the doctor was there to suction him out and it all worked out fine. I think each to their own - but maybe just consider the dangers first before you opt for home births or elective caesers (yes I know some people have no choice). All methods of delivery can be dangerous but my opinion is to just be certain you could live with the decisions you make if something goes wrong and you have ignored the advice of your health care team.

    • Macca says:

      08:14am | 14/07/10

      “Trouble is, it’s too far along in the delivery for it to be administered and she has to push ahead (ahem) sans drugs”

      Oh dear…

      Other than almost unbearable pun above, an article I quite enjoyed relating to a topic I will probably never understand and have even less contribution to. Thats not saying I won’t have kids, but if my darling missus has any increase in hormones (that happens in pregnancy, right?) I will probably have about as much influence as Kevin Rudd in this weeks Caucus meeting

    • Dave C says:

      08:19am | 14/07/10

      Well owing to medical issues my wife had to have a Caesar at 37 weeks in the hospital as the placenta was not working and the baby was in danger. The doctor told us this, we did it and we have a healthy daughter. 

      Isnt it interesting, if you are anti abortion then you are abused up hill and down dale (I am pro choice by the way I am just making the comparison) for not letting a woman make her own choices with her body.

      Therefore what choices a woman makes to give birth (after getting advice from her doctor or midwife) should surely be her own and thats the end of it.

      Of course if a woman chooses a home birth and something goes wrong and by the time the medical help comes in its (heaven forbid) too late to save the baby or her then that woman cannot sue anybody as she made her informed choice in the first place.

      So there you have it, just like everything else in life it boils down to this. Let the woman make an informed choice after being made aware of all the options, then let the woman face the consequences (positive or negative) of that choice. Issue closed.

    • Bitten says:

      10:22am | 14/07/10

      Yeah, Dave C, all that sounds well and good but the thing is you don’t actually need a cause of action to sue someone. You can sue anyone. You can cause any amount of grief and stress to anyone by serving them with a lawsuit. Now that lawsuit may not be successful, but that doesn’t make the whole experience of defending it any easier on the person you’ve unfairly decided to sue because you can’t handle the consequences of your actions.

      I agree with your philosophy wholeheartedly - it’s just the rest of the world isn’t quite so honest and upright and will tend to want to blame someone else for the sad things that happen.

    • SkepDad says:

      03:51pm | 14/07/10

      So where’s the baby’s choice in all this?

      Is there any baby that would seriously choose being born at home as opposed to being born within shouting distance of all the equipment and expertise they may require if things didn’t go perfectly?

      There are many reasons mothers (and I expect it is almost exclusively mothers) choose home birth, but none of them have anything to do with considering their child’s preference, if that child had the ability to make it known.  How utterly selfish and irresponsible.

    • DontBeASkepDad says:

      04:59pm | 14/07/10

      SkepDad, your argument is truly irresponsible and very frightening. The choice here is for the PARENTS - that is their job (their responsibility no less), and will be until their child is ready to fend for itself (when this occurs is a matter for a different debate smile ). Taking their child’s best interests into account should of course enter into this process, but this is so subjective that it’s like asking two economists to agree on something…

      What we really need is to make proven, relevant information and professional guidance available to everyone so the choices made can be as informed as possible. Some people will make bad decisions, and tragic consequnces will result, that is human nature.

      I would not be at all comfortable with a home birth unless I had a doctor there, and was close enough to an appropriate medical insitution in case of emergency. That’s my personal feeling, it may be clouded by some ignorance of the facts, but I would feel it necessary for the well-being of both the mother and child.

      Dave C.‘s comments are basically true, except that it should be both parents (if available) making the choice. Coping with any tragic outcome isn’t so simple in reality - people will lash out in their anger and guilt and seek to punish others for their own mistakes. Again, human nature.

    • David says:

      08:36am | 14/07/10

      Well said Dave C .
      I hope the Byron Bay home of ‘’ natural ‘’ remedies and ‘’ organics ‘’ take heed .
      This includes the anti-vaccination movement !!!!!!!!

    • Eleanor says:

      03:22pm | 14/07/10

      Urgh, I hate hate hate the anti-vaccination movement. It’s all just wacko conspiracy theory stuff. I had the pleasure of reading one of their information posters where they said the preservatives used in some immunisations ‘are implicated in the onset of dementia’.

      You know what else is ‘implicated’ in the development of dementia? Getting old. Which your baby has a lesser chance of doing if you don’t vaccinate it.

      Really, have these people forgotten that it was only 60 years ago that there were entire wards dedicated to polio sufferers? Or what about smallpox?

    • SkepDad says:

      01:21pm | 15/07/10

      Or whooping cough, which is currently making a resurgence thanks to the anti-vaxers.  I hope they’re proud of themselves.

    • Di says:

      01:38pm | 16/07/10

      Do your research before making blanket statements like this about Whooping Cough..it is vaccinated children who are getting it and older ppl whose immunity has worn off..dont blame the anti-vaxers!

    • DD Ball says:

      09:01am | 14/07/10

      I’m a guy, and my attitude is a little colored by the fact that I’m not the one doing the work, or enduring the challenge. I wasn’t very old when I first read the story of Semmelweis, and my previous ambivalence was turned around. Pregnancy is not a sickness, but neither is it without significant risk. Some of my friends who are mothers refer to their fears prior to the first birth, and their desire to do it again. Nothing will make it risk free, but that doesn’t mean sensible actions cannot be taken. A joyous occasion should not be compromised by survivor’s guilt.

    • Jamie says:

      09:14am | 14/07/10

      Well balanced article. However just a couple of points. 

      My wife had a birth plan which was adhered to perfectly right up to the last 2 minutes when a midwife arbitrarily decided on and contrary to the birth plan perform an epesiotomy despite neither our son or my wife being distressed which caused a 4th degree tear - that was far less than a “healthy mum” result. 

      Fact: C-sections have twice the mortality rate of natural births historically.

      ” ...he said that the rise in caesarean births could be attributed to the fact that obstetricians are more likely to recommend a c-section because of the procedure’s improved safety. He also attributes it to more women believing a c-section is a more ‘desirable’ procedure over a vaginal birth. And then there is the litigation factor.”  How screwwed up is this? Woman making decisions based on professional advice given in fear of litigation? Woman making decisions based on what they think the pain will be like and what state (wrongly) they think their vaginas will be in post a vaginal birth?????  Surely the problem here is education?

    • S says:

      10:14am | 14/07/10

      Do you have a link or reference to the ‘fact’ about c-sections and mortality rates?

    • AliceC says:

      10:27am | 14/07/10

      I agree with you Jamie, the focus has become fear of litigation, not on what’s best for the mother or baby. A c-section is still invasive surgery, with its risks. Also, the WHO recommends an average of around 11% c-sections, much higher in Australia.

    • DJ says:

      11:23am | 14/07/10

      Yes coz Wikipedia is never wrong

    • Betelnut says:

      12:08pm | 14/07/10

      C’mom Jamie, put the full wiki quote in:

      “However, it is misleading to directly compare the mortality rates of vaginal and caesarean deliveries. Women with severe medical conditions, or higher-risk pregnancies, often require a Caesarean section which can distort the mortality figures.”

      The arguments around birth choice are complicated enough without deliberately muddying the waters.

    • jess says:

      12:19pm | 14/07/10

      Excuse my logic.,..but most people have c-sections because there are complications or an emergency. So wouldnt it makes sense for there to be an increase to the mortality rate for c-sections??

      Most babies and mothers wont die during a natural birth because doctors give c-sections once they see the warning signs. Any deaths during natural child birth should be due to doctors not seeing those signs.

    • Jamie says:

      12:41pm | 14/07/10

      I wasn’t trying to muddy the waters ... if you read my quote I say “...the mortality risk as 3 times greater although I think the more accurate figure is twice.”  I think it is lower than what the UK National health Service said ... I am not trying to be deliberatley slippery here. 

      And no Jess your logic is not based on any real facts.  There is an increased risk (allbeit still realtively small - safer than driving on Australian roads for instance - but a risk none the less) of dying during a caesar primarily because it is a mjor operation which involves complicated drugs and the risk of infection.

    • AliceC says:

      01:41pm | 14/07/10

      @Jess
      ‘Excuse my logic.,..but most people have c-sections because there are complications or an emergency’

      Actually, the amount of elective C-sections (for non-medical reasons) has risen in Australia.

    • Hmmm... says:

      09:42am | 14/07/10

      Isn’t it interesting that C section babies are never born on golf day?

    • Lawler says:

      09:44am | 14/07/10

      I’m 33 weeks along. My husband and I have a ‘whatever it takes’ mentality - the ideal being a natural birth, but, If complications dictate otherwise, we won’t put our baby in danger.

      I think natural birth should be encouraged as the ideal, just as natural weightloss through diet and exercise adjustment should be encouraged for obese people, before lap-band surgery or diet pills. Or diet, routine, environmental adjustments and counselling before recommending Ritalin for ADD sufferers. Or convalescence, sanitation and quarantine instead of vaccination (eekk, ghanu cop it for that one!).

      It’s when unnatural options are presented as equal or better than natural I get annoyed - they should be fall back positions, administered when natural options are exhausted, since a) they’re generally more expensive and consequently more strain on our system b) often not long lasting since they don’t generally involve behavioral shifts c) a risk to our bodies, since they aren’t natural!

    • jess says:

      10:56am | 14/07/10

      I tend to agree with you. There are plenty of circumstances where natural births would be high risk to mother and a scheduled c-section would be safer, or where after attempting a natural labour and emergency c-section is best.

      However, it doesn’t seem to make sense to me to have an elective c-section for no health reason. Just like it doesn’t make sense to decide on having an epidural before you are in labour and give yourself the chance to see if you need it or not. 

      Birth is a natural stage of life, why complicate it when it’s not needed?

    • DJ says:

      11:27am | 14/07/10

      it may be natural but why take risks when they’re not needed? With all the medical advancements we have why not make use of them if you can? whatever is safer and less distressing for the bub and mum, some people have a very low pain threshold and can’t stand even the tiniest amount, others power on like a pro.

      Go on youtube and put in natural birth, there is one video on there where the girl is in so much pain she is screaming and the contractions are so strong she doesn’t even need to push

    • jess says:

      12:25pm | 14/07/10

      DJ c-sections also carry risks, as with any major surgery.

      I agree, whatever is safer is best, but there is a misconception that c-sections are safer (and easier) than a complication free vaginal birth, which they are not.

      Also, c-sections have a long recovery time which can be very hard on the mother and baby.

    • DJ says:

      01:52pm | 14/07/10

      I am not saying they don’t but medical intervention can also include drugs and epidurals (which I personally am against more so because I kept thinking needle in the spine what will happen when he sneezes?) I know I have had a c-section and normal birth no pain killers, the only reason I had a c-section was because he was laying sideways and wasn’t going to move. I hated not being able to drive for 6 weeks but I rather that than the baby getting stressed out or waiting for him to move if he feels like it

    • jonni says:

      03:32pm | 14/07/10

      I wish you and bub all the best. Your baby already has the unique advantage of an uncommonly intelligent mother!

    • Bon says:

      03:15pm | 16/07/10

      Contractions are meant to help push the baby out.  Having contractions strong enough to push the baby through the birth canal is a good thing!  It means her body is doing what it is meant to do.

      I am not anti-intervention - I have had four babies with varying levels of intervention during each birth, for different reasons - but thanks to the medical establishment we have this idea that natural childbirth is inherently dangerous - it is not.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:47am | 14/07/10

      Where’s the best place to have a baby?

      if you’re in the Western world, and have access to hospitals, medicines and technology, then the answer is a hospital.  With a qualified obstetrician.  Anything else is putting yours and you baby’s life at risk, which is why intentional home births should not be subsidised by Medicare or recieve any kind of government assistance.  If you want to run the risk, it’s on you.

      I’m sure the women of times past, who had as many children as possible because there was a sureity that not all would survive, would gape in horror at modern women today shirking the benefits offered by technological advancement.  Whilst home-birth advocates might insist it’s all for the baby; to me, it reeks of the mother’s “Me, me, me” attitude.

      Not a good start to procreation.

    • alex says:

      03:09pm | 14/07/10

      “me me me”?  Well who do you think is in the best position to feel or sense what is right for their child?

      The doctor?  No!  The mother, who has had that baby in her for 9 months prior.  It IS all about her her her, because she wants to be relaxed, comfortable, at ease and in the best mindset possible when she gives birth because ALL THAT contributes to the health and wellbeing of the mother and baby during labour/delivery.

      The doctor should be there to intervene *IF* necessary, not because its convenient for everyone else.

    • Elphaba says:

      03:27pm | 14/07/10

      A doctor who has delievered 100+ babies is in a much better position to determine what is right for the mother than a woman giving birth for the first or even the 10th time.  I stand by what I said.

      I’m not saying a doctor should intervene immediately, and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with a natural birth.  I’m saying that an intentional home birth, with a midwife whose qualifications are dubious, with limited medical and no surgical training, with no ultrasound, or equipment to monitor blood pressure, is foolish.  The baby’s best interests are not being taken care of.

      I don’t care if the doctor stands in a corner and watches if everything is going fine.  But to not be in a hospital where there is medical intervention available as soon as something goes very wrong, is stupid.

    • Julie says:

      09:54pm | 14/07/10

      And so what about the midwives?  Do you think they have no role in childbirth?  When a labouring woman arrives at the hospital, do you think it’s the OBGYN that admits you, stays with you, and makes sure everything is going well?  No, that would be the midwife.  And, in most cases, it’s the midwife that is there when you give birth, not the OBGYN.  And, at times, the midwife knows what to do better than a doctor does when an emergency arrives.  Please do not underestimate what a midwife does.
      As an added extra, in Australia we are too quick to intervene when a woman is in labour, resulting in a caesarean birth, when one isn’t needed, which is why the caesar rate in Australia sits at 30% compared to the WHO recommended 11%.  Sometimes a woman have a caesarean because a doctor thinks the labour is going too slow, when, in fact, it is a normally progressing labour.

    • Arcadia says:

      12:29am | 15/07/10

      Elphaba, on what grounds do you declare a midwive’s qualifications to be dubious?  All the midwives I’ve known (and I’ve met quite a few) are well-trained, educated, up-to-date in their knowledge and skills, unlike a number of obstetricians I’ve met.

      Homebirth is perfectly safe, and is every woman’s right, should she choose it.  For anyone to declare that they have ownership over a woman’s decisions over her own body, be they doctor, husband or government, is odious to me.

    • Innocent says:

      09:22am | 15/07/10

      Who says doctors are even there at hospitals? I had a baby last weekend, sure they called the doctor in but she arrived well after the baby and left before the placenta arrived. The midwife wasn’t even there except to catch - and only because we pressed the call button, she was off calling for the doctor and a second midwife. There wasn’t time for drugs. If something went wrong the OR wouldn’t have been ready. If it wasn’t for the free breakfast in bed the next day and a bunch of slightly guilty hospital staff waiting on me hand and foot for a few hours because they almost missed the entire birth, I could as well have had a freebirth at home.

    • Di says:

      01:58pm | 16/07/10

      OMG Elphaba..do you really think we homebirth midwives just stand around and chnat or something??
      We have formal qualifications and much ongoing education (which is a registration requirement) and we carry equipment to monitor both mother & baby (FFS a BP cuff is hardly high tech hospital equipment!) not to mention emergency equipment & emergency drugs!
      I cant believe that ppl think midwives are unqualified “dubiou” and incompetent! What an insult!

    • Di says:

      02:36pm | 16/07/10

      ‘scuse my typos! I meant “stand around and CHANT” and “dubious”.

    • julia says:

      10:13am | 14/07/10

      I’m very impressed she did a vaginal birth to twins. Good work.

    • sg says:

      05:52pm | 14/07/10

      Actually so am I. All of the people I know who have had twins had C sections and didn’t attempt a ‘natural’ birth.

    • Danielle says:

      03:24pm | 19/07/10

      sg I’m sure those people who didn’t attempt a natural birth were acting on the advice of their obstetrician.
      I had twins and my obstetrician didn’t allow me to attempt a natural birth as one of my babies were in the breech position. If they were both head down then I would have had a natural birth.

    • AliceC says:

      10:24am | 14/07/10

      As a woman who has not had children, I have seen many sides of this debate. From what I understand, yes, let the woman make an educated decision about how she wants to deliver her child, but don’t scare her into things like C-sections or epidurals unless it’s medically necessary. My mother is a midwife and from all the births she’s attended, the more natural where possible, the better for both mother and child.

      And let’s also acknowledge the amazing support the father’s provide to these women. : )

    • Razor says:

      03:07pm | 14/07/10

      Mrs Razor has had two babies with epidurals.

      You wouldn’t have a tooth removed or your appendix removed without anthaesia would you?  Wht suffer the agony of child bir when you don’t have to.

      Go early on the epidural.

    • AliceC says:

      04:01pm | 14/07/10

      @Razor

      Congratulations on your two children. : )

      Your examples of tooth and appendix removal are slightly different to childbirth, which has been happening since humans existed (when we started to exist is a whole new argumenet, LOL).

      The pain associated with childbirth is there for a reason, as well as the rush of hormones you feel once the baby arrives, causing a connection so you have an instinct to protect your newborn. Unfortunately an epidural dulls this down. I respect your choice and I also feel it will not necessary for me. If I end up having a baby, and the punch is still going, I’ll see if I rememeber to update….  : D

    • DJ says:

      05:31pm | 14/07/10

      I had my wisdom tooth removed in the chair without the numbing stuff, not my idea, the dentist didn’t give me enough and I thought I was being tortured

    • Razor says:

      11:13pm | 14/07/10

      Alice - passing kidney stones is a natural event that has been happening since we evolved - wouldn’t do that without pain relief these days would you?

    • DJ says:

      10:39am | 14/07/10

      I say whatever is best for bub and mum, I went natural drug free for most of mine but the last who was breech and just wouldn’t turn so had an elective c-section (shock horror) but as he was sideways didn’t really feel like pushing him out that way.

      Give mothers all the information they need and let them decide and only intervene if mum or bubs are in distress, if neither is then let them stick to the plan

    • jess says:

      12:27pm | 14/07/10

      I would consider breech a medical health reason to have a c-section

    • DJ says:

      02:06pm | 14/07/10

      so would I but I still get strangers telling me he would have moved in his own time, there was no sign of that.

    • ABC says:

      05:34pm | 14/07/10

      DJ, if your baby was sideways then it wasn’t breech, it was transverse. I know because I had a vaginal footling breech birth at the Royal Women’s Hospital in Melbourne in the early 90s… it was such a rare event that I had a room full of doctors and nurses observing (as well as 2 doctors attending)!

      Thank goodness for the epidural!!!

    • Julie says:

      10:03pm | 14/07/10

      I agree with ABC, your baby was Transverse, not breech, DJ.  Either way, a LUSCS was the best option for a transverse.  Yes, there is a possibility that bub may have turned, but the later in pregnancy, the less likely it is that bub will turn.
      ABC, well done!  These days you also would have been an automatic LUSCS, too many OBGYNs are too scared to let a mother have a normal breech birth, due to the possible complications.

    • DJ says:

      12:51pm | 15/07/10

      Ummm….who cares? he wasn’t turning, I admit I didn’t really listen to the doc, he she showed me he was sideways I just said cut him out, whatever, I had done the normal before

    • ABC says:

      05:23pm | 15/07/10

      Thanks Julie (you sound like you work in the field). My waters broke (at work!) at 37 weeks and my OBGYN had, just a few days prior, measured both the baby’s head (ultrasound) and my pelvic space (xray)... so he was almost certain there would be no problems with a breech birth. The epidural was administered early on as insurance in case things went wrong. I must say that my experience in the public system at the RWH was brilliant!

    • jess says:

      10:42am | 14/07/10

      Well I admit I was a little surprised when I read this article. It’s unusual to read a sensible balanced approach to this issue, let alone an article on punch that’s not designed to rile people up.
      The reality is, it doesn’t matter if the baby comes out the door or out the window, healthy mum and healthy bub are what matters.

      I dont have children yet, but I will go into labour hoping for a healthy baby and open to whatever happens.

    • Sally says:

      10:51am | 14/07/10

      Womans choice is they way we should be looking at this. Unfortunatley our system is failing us in so many ways. Child Birth Education through the hospital system offers no education at all other than what drugs are on offer in the hospital. I am a doula who has worked both in hospital and home settings and you dont often see a “normal” labour in the hospital. HIgh intervention from the moment you walk in the door!
      Our c section rate in this country is nothing shy of appauling. 3 times higher than what is recommened by the World Health Organisation!!!!! AND the word emergency is also VERY over used…......waiting for three to four hours for a c section while being told you are not progressing fast enough is NOT an emergency!!!!!!!!!
      Quote from above article"natural but with drugs (epidural, gas, etc” - there is no such thing! Thats a vaginal birth with drugs.
      Birth plans may not always work out but they are well worth putting in place. Get educated - really educated and the outcome may be closer to natural smile which is proven to better the most ideal for both mum and baby.

    • Jamie says:

      12:17pm | 14/07/10

      Surely the idea that one should not be educated or that the advice to become educated is rude says an awful lot about where you are coming from.

      This is a hard pill for you to swallow no doubt Ellen but you weren’t educated.  You listened to one midwife? How can she have all the answers? ... I am sure if you had done what you deride Sally telling you to do and read a dozen books on the subject you would have known it was probably going to be a little more than mild discomfort.  What’s more and I dont mean this to be an attack on you, but your ignorance led to your feelings of failure not the advice from one midwife.

    • Tess says:

      01:28pm | 14/07/10

      @Ellen,

      Like Jamie I’m not directing a personal attack at you, but a comment like that can’t be left untouched.  You have directed all of the blame for your birth experience at another person, in this case the midwife.  You don’t appear to have taken any responsibility for your expectations not matching reality.  That’s the same attitude that underscores our litigious society these days: everything is some else’s fault:, I just need to find the person with the deepest pockets.  And those law suits are often enough directed at Obstetricians.  Any wonder they take the option with least risk to themselves.

      I ended up with a forceps delivery and epesiotomy, two procedures I was originally terrified of.  But through reading and talking to people - in short, educating myself - I understood why both needed to be done.  Despite the interventions I had a fantastic birth.  My daughter and I are both healthy so regardless of how we got there it was a good outcome.

      And, OK so this is a little bit personal, but if you believed a midwife who told you birth would involve “mild discomfort” despite every movie, TV show or other woman you’ve ever met telling you otherwise…

    • alex says:

      03:13pm | 14/07/10

      I agree, and get educated about ALL options so you’re comfortable to do whatever you like during the birth.

      Go in with the aim of a natural birth not being so hard on yourself if you choose something else along the way.  The mother has to feel comfortable with whatever she decides… that is what education should be about surely?

    • Lucy says:

      10:54am | 14/07/10

      Andrew Pesce would not know what a NORMAL birth is!!!!! He also would not know how to support a woman in labour.
      Leave him to what he is good at - the 10% of births where a c section should be done!!!!!!!

    • Maria says:

      02:09pm | 14/07/10

      Why do you say that?

    • Arcadia says:

      01:00am | 15/07/10

      Agreed!  Andrew Pesce seldom has anything to say about birth that is worth listening to.  I wonder if he’s ever even seen a homebirth?

    • Josie says:

      09:21am | 15/07/10

      Ladies, I would safely say you are in the minority with your experiences with Dr Pesce. I know many, many women who speak very highly of him not only during the birthing process but also when they have had difficulty falling pregnant. He is one of the most notable doctors in Australia when it comes to solving infertility issues. His manner is wonderful and warm and professional and compassionate. I always, always recommend him as a first choice option when a friend is having difficulty conceiving or simply if she wants an excellent experience throughout their pregnancy. Were it not for Dr Pesce I would NEVER have had the courage to deliver twins in the way I did. He empowered me with all the information I needed, encouraged me to have a vaginal birth, then left the rest up to me. I will never forget the whole process and I cannot speak highly enough of him.

    • Valentina says:

      11:15am | 15/07/10

      I believe you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to Dr. Andrew Pesce. He delivered both my daughters, and I had NORMAL births with both of my girls, and both my girls were big one was over 4kg and the other was just under by 10grams. So he does know what a normal birth is and he supported me through the process both times doing everthing is his power to do what was best for me and my two beautiful girls who I carried to 41 weeks!! So before you make such remarks maybe you should know some more about him before you make your judgement!!!!

    • mumu says:

      11:00am | 14/07/10

      Anyone who feels ripped off because they had to have a caesarian is obviously missing the point.  Its about getting the baby into the world in the safest possible way. If the baby arrives and mum and baby are healthy thats all that matters.
      People who take unnecessary risks in childbirth, and by that I mean, at home, are selfish and should be held accountable for any permanent damage the child suffers because of their choice.

    • alex says:

      03:16pm | 14/07/10

      And what if the child suffers because the doctor misjudged the due dates, inducts a baby and results it being born underweight or requiring artificial breathing assistance?  Would you call that unnecessary risk? And what if this was due to the mother listened to the “smart” doctor instead of her own instincts?

    • Julie says:

      10:15pm | 14/07/10

      Seriously Alex, do you think, in this day and age, that due dates are misjudged?  What do you think ultrasounds do?  Do you think they are only there to see the baby’s sex?  I hate to smash your illusion, but an ultrasound is the most accurate way to determine a baby’s due date.  And with so many mothers not being able to help with dates, it becomes the only way to determine a due date.  And an ultrasound is accurate!  Most women have more than one ultrasound when pregnant, as well.  Then there is the Antenatal checkups, where growth is also determined.
      Babies being born underweight is usually due to something else going on, such as placental insufficiency, and yes they are born early, as with IUGR (Intrauterine Growth Restriction) babies, they are better out than in, and better able to survive once born.

    • alex says:

      10:24am | 15/07/10

      Julie go do a bit of research on risks of inductions for yourself.  It DOES happen.  In the public system you have two ultrasounds, that’s it.  Unless there is something that requires further monitoring.  Doctors are human in case you hadn’t noticed - which means they can and do make mistakes.

    • alex says:

      10:24am | 15/07/10

      Julie go do a bit of research on risks of inductions for yourself.  It DOES happen.  In the public system you have two ultrasounds, that’s it.  Unless there is something that requires further monitoring.  Doctors are human in case you hadn’t noticed - which means they can and do make mistakes.

    • AW says:

      12:25pm | 15/07/10

      @ Julie - as someone who had their dates misjudged by two weeks, it happens. According to the doctors and the midwives I saw I knew nothing about my body (I am one of the rare people who show very low levels of HCG during the first trimester and I had every other indication of pregnancy except a positive test) or when I actually had sex… According to the scans I had I was 9 days early due to their dates and 2 weeks overdue due to mine. Would have been great for my son if I didn’t have him when I did. I’m not the only one I know who has had this happen and as I’m currently studying nursing, we’re told not to completely rely on the accuracy of technology as genetics and situation can play a major part in the development/growth of the fetus (or disease as the case may be if pregnancy is not the issue).

    • DJ says:

      10:03am | 16/07/10

      AW - 2 weeks is nothing, due to the fact they judge how far you are along based on day 1 of your last cycle so they are usually 2 weeks out, 2 weeks is no big deal, they are not likely to be born underweight they are done cooking by then, even 4 weeks the baby is fine, it’s when you are like 3 months early you should panic but that would hardly be the doctors fault, I really don’t think they can misjudge 3 months

    • Debbie says:

      11:42am | 14/07/10

      I had a birth plan for both my children, but it wasn’t too involved or unrealistic, I don’t think. It basically just set out my desire to have my baby placed straight on my chest after the delivery unless it needed medical help, for my husband to cut the cord and for no intervention unless medically necessary.  The midwives honoured my birth plan totally on each occasion, although both times I had an episiotomy, not because I needed one, but because it was hospital policy (it was a regional hospital with a rate of episotomies and Caesars far above the state average).  Still, I’m not complaining: I have two healthy children, my husband was involved as I wanted him to be and I had plenty of midwives to outnumber the doctor, especially for baby number two because bub came right on the shift changeover.  I’ve never seen a room fill up so fast!

      Anyway, my point is that there can be a happy in-between for birth plans!

    • Angel says:

      11:47am | 14/07/10

      I think Danii Minogue’s birth is also proof of how midwives are quick to get help when things do go wrong in a homebirth. Her baby was delivered safely. I think it’s a worry that “complications” during birth is seen as the default rather than it being a normal and natural occurrence. There is so much great pre-natal care, I don’t see why homebirths are so frowned upon. If they were more popular and independent midwives were more common, those hospital beds could be used for actual SICK people, rather than women having a normal, complication-free birth.

      A “healthy baby and healthy mother” is not always “the most important” thing. Many women suffer from birth trauma and have been psychologically damaged due to it, it’s not unimportant. Maybe to those who say those words, but not those who have suffered birth trauma.

    • Ella says:

      02:47pm | 14/07/10

      My mother had my two youngest brother at home. She said she was so much more happy and relaxed at home and it actually made the birth easier, but they were the last of 5 kids so by that time she was a pro.
      Up to quite recently (I think it went out in the 70s) the UK had a policy where a woman’s first baby was born in the hospital and all subsequent ones were home births unless there had been complications.  I actually think this is quite a sensible policy unless you live too far from a hospital to get there in the event of an emergency.

    • Ceasar Mum says:

      11:52am | 14/07/10

      I agree, this is not a birth-dictatorship, so we should be able to choose how we deliver our babies, assuming we’re well informed enough to make that decision; that’s for another blog. However, I do know of women who are terribly sanctimonious about how they give birth and seem to view the delivery of a baby as somehow secondary to the process that they can then go on about, ad nauseum…These women will beg the doctor to try a bit longer to achieve their goal of a natural birth! What the? I want a baby, not a birth story… I had two elective caesareans because it just felt like the safer option for me personally. Please, don’t bother belting me with statistics about natural birth etc etc…I know, I actually did a lot of research and I made a CHOICE to have the birth I wanted which, in the end, made my experience completely joyful and without the crippling fear of disaster that I would otherwise have carried with me every moment of each delivery.

    • Jamie says:

      12:34pm | 14/07/10

      I think the point to make would be that of course the healthy and safe arrival of the baby should be the prime motivator for any decision re: birth however there are ramifications past this point that can be long lasting and massive. e.g. *A baby born via forceps simply because a paediatrician didn’t want to wait another 3 hours so ruptured mothers membranes (I know this woman) to quicken labour - baby couldn’t breast feed properly as he was so badly bruised by the forceps which also cracked the mothers coxis which stopped her from sitting down to feed for 10 weeks.  *My brother in law born via caesar and cut by the scalpel. *My ex girlfriends sister who is an anethiatist who almost killed mother and child when admisinstering an epidural.

      This idea that if you want a safe birth, you need a paediatrician and a hospital is bullocks.  You need to be educated about the pros anc cons of every available choice and then make them ... like Caesar Mum.  Well done! (didn’t mean to be patrionising)

    • MK. says:

      12:52pm | 14/07/10

      Hear, hear! A mother should always have the right to choose what feels right and best for her and what she feels is best for her child, not anybody else. I can understand a natual birth might feel ‘empowering’ and congratulations to people who’ve achieved that feeling, but I think birth in any of it’s forms and hell, pregnancy alone, would be an empowering experience for any woman.

    • Faery says:

      12:11pm | 14/07/10

      Who cares how a woman chooses to give birth.  If the labour, birth and baby aren’t yours then you really don’t have any right to comment.  Labour decisions should be between the woman, her husband/partner and their doctor and everyone else, whether they have given birth or not, should just butt out!
      I’m so tired of hearing people go on and on about how natural is really the ‘best option’.  I’m pretty sure that when pain killers, new surgery techniques and other medical advances were developed they didn’t come with labels saying “for use outside of labour situation only”.  If your opinion is el natural is the only way then apply that to your own labour and let every one else with their own opinion do the same.

    • hysterical_pregnancy says:

      12:16pm | 14/07/10

      The reason Australia (and most other developed countries) have such low infant mortality rates is the fact that most deliveries occur in hospitals and are performed by obstetricians.

      As much as people complain about the ‘medicalisation’ of the birthing process, it has led to a dramatic decline in harm to mothers and infants. As a child who wouldn’t be here without quite significant intervention in the birth process, I cannot understand why women who are committed to having a child, can somehow think that a home birth is in the best interests of them, or their child.

      As for the assertion that midwives are as capable as an obstetrician in dealing with complicated or uncomplicated births, if I was given the choice between a mid-wife with a 3 year bachelor’s degree, or an Obstetrician with a decade of post-graduate training, I know what I’d choose. . .

    • Jamie says:

      12:52pm | 14/07/10

      “The reason Australia (and most other developed countries) have such low infant mortality rates is the fact that most deliveries occur in hospitals and are performed by obstetricians.” - This comment is either intellectually dishonest of bereft ... I’m not sure which one.

      As for Midwives vs Ob’s ... Once again intellectually dioshonest, but that point aside - I think it is a matter of philosophy really.  I think I would prefer a person who had delivered 1000 babys and who realised that if they induce a birth as they are going on holidays the following day (true story) then that could in turn have some follow on effects such as un dialated cervix requiring a c-section ... so maybe thats not such a great idea.  I would prefer the person who had that philosophy be it a a midwife or an ob.  Although to be completely honest I think that is the philosophy more commonly shared by the midwives.

    • Muttley says:

      01:38pm | 14/07/10

      Hysterical pregnancy agree completely. This is an occasion where so much can go wrong. I’ve never understood the touchy feely brigade who push midwives. If everything goes smoothly then just super. But if it all turns to crap which it can so easily it is much better to be in a resourced medical facility. Why take the risk? Although in your summary you state the preference for the individual with a decade specialist training. Fair call but do they provide scented candles or merely indepth medical training that could save your wive/childs life?

    • Jamie says:

      01:54pm | 14/07/10

      “So much can go wrong”?????  What can go wrong? How often does this go wrong? What are you actually talking about? Reciprocally what can go wrong in an operating theatre or delivery room? Do you actually know? I dare say you don’t.  Broad statements and generalisations about candles and tree hugging aren ignorant in the exreme.

    • Lozz says:

      02:17pm | 14/07/10

      Gee Jamie, you certainly are vocal today.  It would almost seem as though you yourself have either pushed a baby through your vagina? or you are a midwife/obstetrician? or you are the President of the AMA?  As women, not living in a third world country, doesn’t everyone think that it is your own choice regarding your own child coming out of your own body?  These decisions are to be made by the concerning woman (or couple) and their Obstetrician and it is our right to do so, just as it is our right to receive the medical care that may be needed if something goes wrong.  This is our right.  (please don’t start shouting at the rights of the baby- I am certain a women would not willing put her child in danger and would listen to and takemedical advice).

      Should I throw the cat amongst the pigeons and mention our choice regarding breast feeding as well, or would that also make blokes who don’t have breasts tell us women what they think is best??

    • Julie says:

      10:24pm | 14/07/10

      Why does everybody think that it’s always an OBGYN who delivers a baby at a hospital?  People, look closer, the majority of births at hospitals are performed by midwives - so why are people so down on midwives?  They do fantastic jobs, and will be the people you thank after you’ve had your healthy child - not the doctor who pokes his head in every 4 hours, and is not even at your birth!

    • Julie says:

      10:28pm | 14/07/10

      Oh, and by the way, the mortality rate in America is much worse than in Australia, where most babies are delivered by OBGYNs.  In America, only 8% of births are performed by midwives, whereas in Australia, around 70% of births are performed by midwives, and our mother & baby mortality rate is much lower.  Same low rates in the UK, Canada and New Zealand, where midwives also do the majority of births as well.  So tell me now, who would you rather have at your birth again?

    • tinman says:

      11:08am | 15/07/10

      Low infant mortality are one thing but let see the Obstetrics people come clean on the actual infant long and short term Morbidity that all their interventions and drugs are causing to both mothers and babies that are so far being swept under the carpet. APGAR scores are actually use by Anesthesiologist to score the recovery of patients from drugs , NOT babies from birth < except every thing crosses the placenta now doesn’t it ! There are now US studies that are showing that many cases the Good Doc’s call PND are actually PTSS from unwanted intervention being forced on women who are just told it’s all in their head . Yep it is every second of it ! Look at the amount of Drugs babies are being bombarded with from the moment of birth in the good Doc’s just in case care , that is really just in case our insurance provider is ever challenged .Obs skills are without doubt a blessing the problems arises not from the use of those skills but the jump from over use to common practice. Doctors (insurance providers ) have a one size fits all approach to Birth.
      It is also a myth that they are very much safer ! How happy is that little Mum when the Good Doc presents them with their little bundle of joy that nature would have allowed to die so as not to burden the parents with a child whom will require full time care for life ? Well having seen it my self with a friend. Most often very happy , until the realities kick in and you find as they grow there is less and less support , and your other children suffer because this one as an adult is still cared for like a baby ! Safer ?

    • AW says:

      12:42pm | 15/07/10

      as a woman who gave birth with midwives looking after me my whole pregnancy, I saw a Doctor/OBGYN 5 times max. This includes finding out I was pregnant, twice in the clinic (which they make everyone do) once (maybe twice) during a stay in stay in hospital during for a UTI and once an hour after the birth of my son to place two stitches that didn’t need to be done. All my pre and post natal care was done by a team of midwives (including a male one who was fantastic).

      I would have a midwife any day over a OBGYN as I know how well trained the midwives need to be as I’m studying to be a nurse myself. I know how much effort goes into the yearly registration as well as the additional training on top of the BN that they undertake initially - midwifery is a post graduate training course in addition to the BN

    • Bon says:

      04:07pm | 16/07/10

      Actually, hysterical pregnancy, most babies born in public hospitals in Australia are delivered by midwives.  Not counting c-sections of course.  If you choose a public hospital to give birth at, most of your antenatal visits will be with a midwife.  You might see an Ob once or twice.  Even in private hospitals, a woman will spend most of her labour overseen by a midwife, with the doctor turning up only when birth is imminent (if he or she even makes it at all, which happens a lot).

    • rech says:

      11:36am | 17/07/10

      “APGAR scores are actually use by Anesthesiologist to score the recovery of patients from drugs”

      Wow, that is misinformed. I am an anesthesiologist (specialising in obstetrics as it happens) and APGAR scores are not (ever) used to measure recovery from drugs. They are used at delivery, and shortly after, to assess the wellbeing of the newborn.

    • Many Times Mum says:

      12:22pm | 14/07/10

      I had five babies - 1st at the birthing centre with only gas as pain relief.

      2nd was an emergency c-section at 33 weeks as I had gone into early labour as the baby was distressed (she had contracted influenza in the womb).

      3rd was born on time - had to have pethadine sas he was ‘‘stuck’’ the mid wife had to manually turn him (which I was told ionvolved her putting her hand in and turning his head - my brain didn’t remember that one)

      4th was at the maternity wing 36 weeks - natural, born blue as he was delivered too fast (one of the longest minutes of my life up until that point) - he had a strep infection.

      5th - my waters broke for no reason at 29 weeks,  almost 2 weeks in hospital until they tried to induce me. 5 hours of inducment, nothing happening and I requested a c-section (it was going that way anyway). She was fine as they had given me steriods to improve her lungs.

      What this shows is anything can go on. You can’t plan for it -all you can do is go with it and don’t stress.

    • Bitten says:

      12:25pm | 14/07/10

      I always giggle a tiny bit when people attempt to align ‘natural’ with ‘goodness’. We must have ‘natural’ births because that is ‘natural’, ergo better. Ok then. Well, death is natural. Shall we all line up to jump off a cliff?

    • kat says:

      12:33pm | 14/07/10

      well i think i was pretty lucky. i had 4 natural with drugs births and the last a planned caesar due to my baby being breech, having had a problem with my 4th emptying his bowels in the womb (just a lazy little bugger), ending up in the special care unit on a drip and now having respiratory problems, i wanted to go the ‘safe’ route with my 5th so we didnt have any problems with her. i was comfortable with this deision and the staff were great. having a caesar was my greatest fear in life, and i overcame it for the safety of my child.
      i didn’t have a birth plan for any of mine. it was just a ‘go in and see what happens’ type of attitude and it fared us all well, i am healthy (although i much preferred a natural birth) and the kids are healthy. i have no regrets.
      my sister in law on the other hand is quite different. her pelvis is too small to give birth naturally, her mother had all 4 of hers born by caesar due to this. my sis in law tried to have her first naturally and ended up have an emergency caesar. needless to say she ended up with post natal depression as a result of not being able to ‘go all the way’ naturally. she has employed everybody available to help her with the second one, but now with a separated pelvis at 30 weeks it doesnt look like there is much chance of that happening. it doesnt matter that you can tell her your child was born healthy and that you were both safe, she still gets depressed over it.
      long story short - mothers need more after birth care, especially if things didnt go as planned. maybe we should all stop writing these articles about what a birth should be and start writing articles about our experiences so the people that end up having problems dealing with the birth plan going wrong will have something to read that may help them!

    • Sirro says:

      12:38pm | 14/07/10

      After experiencing the three vaginal deliveries of my children I can honestly say it is an incredibly stressful, amazing and satisfying feeling to have three healthy beautiful kids.
      Two years on from the last ones birth I can say that I and my wife do not care in the slightest, how they were born. All I care about is that they are healthy and safe.
      I am proud that we made the decision to have them in hostpital with the best available help regardless of whether it cost $1 or my enitre life savings.
      In the end the only thing that matters is the resultant healthy mother and children. Everyone is different in their beliefs and outlook but I think thats the result we all want.

      I enjoyed your article as I feel it was balanced and fair and came from your experiences.

      I feel you should also write an article about breast-feeding and the Nazi like attitudes that some woman have about those unable to breastfeed effectively and who need to use bottles and powdered milk.
      I have seen a number of women breakdown (at the worst possible time given the recent birth) and claim that they are not real women/good enough mothers because breast feeding has not worked for them.
      The issue of support for these woman and some pre-natal education for both prospective parents on the subject is something we should discuss.

      This to me is the real issue post childbirth rather than how the birth was conducted.

    • Debbie says:

      01:33pm | 14/07/10

      I totally agree about the attitudes about breastfeeding!  I breastfed my first until he was 18 months old, and the second till she turned 1, because she was a biter, for which I got lots of pats on the back, but
      I got plenty of glares for using tinned baby food when they started weaning!  But so what if you - shock, horror - give them formula?  To me, if you have a baby that is properly dressed, well fed and well loved then you are a good mother, no matter how they arrived or what you feed them.

    • Josie says:

      01:35pm | 14/07/10

      Thanks for your comments, Sirro, and huge congrats on your three healthy beautiful children. That is one of the next pieces I’d like to write about: breastfeeding, and all that is associated with breast/bottle feeding. Stay tuned…

    • Arcadia says:

      12:58am | 15/07/10

      “Two years on from the last ones birth I can say that I and my wife do not care in the slightest, how they were born. All I care about is that they are healthy and safe.”

      It may interest you to know that the leading cause of maternal death in Australia is suicide.  (As stated by Hannah Dahlen during Senate hearings).  Are you still sure that you don’t care how they were born, or how your wife experienced your children’s births?

    • Siggy says:

      01:05pm | 14/07/10

      As someone with an undilated cervix following 27 hours of induced labour (at 2 weeks overdue), I was more than ready for the emergency c-section that was necessary to meet my first-born.

      The elective c-section for my second was a no freaking brainer. 

      50 to 100 years ago, I would have died in childbirth.  Anyone wants to lecture me about being a hero can go right ahead.  I’ll take being alive and a “coward” over being a dead hero, any day of the week.

    • Jamie says:

      01:42pm | 14/07/10

      Whose lecturing you?

      To be honest with you if I was in your situation I don’t know if I would have lasted a week overdue.  However I think you could connect the dots and say “perhaps” that your cervix didn’t dilate becuase you were induced and this in turn led to your caesar.  I think this is a logical possibility.  I also think that you could say that “perhaps” 50 to 100 years ago the baby could have come on it own the next day or the day after that and you would have laboured normally.  I think it is a big jump to say you would have died.

      That aside peoples decisions are peoples decisions ... no one should make any one wrong for making them.  But no one can also reasonably say that going into something blindly and handing over control and the direction a birth goes by way of decisions made to someone else when the direction and decisions can be yours and can be educated is a wise one - it’s not.  In fact it is stupid. Elective c-sections made after a thourough investigation of the facts aren’t stupid, but by the same token neither are homebirths after that decision has been arived at after serious consideration.

    • ABC says:

      06:36pm | 14/07/10

      I think Jamie is a dude!

    • TheRealDave says:

      01:25pm | 14/07/10

      As a dad of three, with my youngest about to hit the big 1 on July 30th…or is it 31st??? Hmmm…I digress…... I jsut htink people who elect for stupid birhts like water births, home births, birthing pods and simulated stork delivery or giving birth under a cabbage patch in the dirt and whatnot are just silly. This is Australia in the year 2010. We have some of the finest most advanced medical facilities on the planet. We have some of the best and brightest medical people in these hospitals…..why the hell would you want to put your missuses life and your childs life at risk with new age crap at the urging and direction of some clown with no medical training or experience, just dumb luck?

      I bet they are also the first people to reach for the Trilby Misso hotline if things go amiss.

      Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you bloody should!

      My missus did a Hiegel with our first. She screamed for an Epi but it was too late and she gave birth drug free…well…apart from the gas she was sucking on for 9 hours. The baby was over 9 pound as well wink With babies 2 and 3 they both came on too fast ther e was no time for an Epi on those ones…..although she was screaming forit wink

    • Lana says:

      01:36pm | 14/07/10

      Personally I could not imagine having an appendectomy or my tonsils out at home without medication or a doctor present, so why would I have a baby that way? I had my baby in a hospital with all the trimmings, which is what I needed in order to feel secure. In my experience, the best birth plan is: expect the worst and hope for the best.

    • alex says:

      04:15pm | 14/07/10

      appendectomy is surgery.  it’s not “normal”  its what happens when you’re in crisis or your health is at risk.

      Childbirth is normal, else it wouldn’t be able to happen normally!!  So, if health is at risk then sure, seek medication or a doctor.  But if you have what is considered a low risk pregnancy and everything is going along swimmingly, what’s wrong with the mother wanting to try for a home birth, as long as she’s aware of who needs to be called or who needs to be on hand in case of a problem?

      geez.

      Would you go straight to a surgeon for a back problem?  Or would you seek alternative, less intrusive ways to fix it up first?

    • Brian says:

      04:37pm | 14/07/10

      At the very least, my child would now be suffering severe brain damage if I took your advice alex. It may be the execption, but the consequence is so dire that I wouldn’t take the risk.

      It’s basically the same as any form of insurance. Most people will get back less than they pay (else the companies would go bankrupt), but for the one person who has their house burn down or needs months of rehabilitation it’s worth it.

    • alex says:

      10:27am | 15/07/10

      In the end its all about choice.  You chose what you felt most comfortable with, Brian.  Others shouldn’t be criticized for choosing what THEY feel comfortable with.

    • Angel says:

      01:37pm | 14/07/10

      I find the general consensus in the comments here to be that women who choose homebirth are risking their child’s life, trying to be heroes and goddesses and those who choose drugs and hospital birth are doing what’s safe and right for their babies and have no need to feel guilty. It’s funny how those who cry victim about birth, are often the first to criticise others.

      I’d hate to break it to you, but there is actually no difference in an emergency birth in hospital or at home (so long as mum lives relatively close to a hospital). If there’s an emergency in hospital, you have to wait up to hours for an operating theatre/anaethatist/doctor anyway!!

    • Alyce says:

      02:00pm | 14/07/10

      “Accompanying the story on the mini-Minogue birth were figures from the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists which indicated that up to half of all first-time mothers attempting a home birth had to be transferred to hospital due to complications.”

      This statistic unfortunately was wrongly used and gives a very misleading idea. This actually refers to transfers from birth centre to labour ward within a hospital, NOT home birth transfers, and is not related to complications but the restrictions on the pain relief that can be administered in the birth centres. Home birth transfers in Australia tend to be less than 10% of attemptied home births.

      Please check things when you reblog them especially if you are not only going to reblog but also paraphrase. Home birth faces a tough enough battle for recognition as a valid choice in Australia without having to fight against this type of misinformation.

    • mongo says:

      02:36pm | 14/07/10

      Its amazing how many times we see this sort of information being used in a misleading way.

      For all who are passionate about this topic I highly recommend that you watch a DVD called “The business of being born”. An amazing documentary that gives a non biased window into birth and the choices available.

    • Julie says:

      10:35pm | 14/07/10

      Well done Alice, I actually had the thought that that figure was just a little bit too high, and was wrong.  Mongo, I have watched The Business of Being Born, which I found amazing.  If more people watched it, it might change some minds on home births, and midwives at births.

    • samy says:

      02:24pm | 14/07/10

      everyone women deserves the right to chose how and where they give birth. However if the women is thinking about the child first and not themselves they won’t go past delivering in a hospital or midwifery clinic attached to a hospital. the most important thing is to give birth to a health child and to have a healthy mother. there are to many “what ifs” when it comes to home births and even though you get to decide how and where you give birth, this is the first real decision of your childs life that you literally have their life in your hands. Think about the safety aspect and think about the “what ifs” rather then the “what I want”

    • Sara McCracken says:

      02:50pm | 14/07/10

      Well said Josie.  As a mum to 3 youngsters - and with each birth having been a very different experience - I believe it is irresponsible for hospitals, midwives and obstetricians to encourage women to have a birthing plan.  Surely this only leads to disappointment.  I am currently writing a book about pregnancy and birthing stories and have interviewed - in depth - many women on the issue.  The overwhelming response from virtually all first time mums is that no matter what they thought they would experience, or what plans they had in place to bring their baby into the world, nothing - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - could have prepared them for the act of childbirth, and all the subjectivity that accommpanied it.

    • Ann says:

      11:02am | 15/07/10

      I sort of agree with what you are saying Sara but I disagree that the birthplan is the source of women’s disappointment. It is more likely a hospital system that is not focused on providing woman-centred care. Hospitals and careprovders should be upfront about their protocols and intervention rates rather than stringing women along and letting them believe that drug and intervention free births are a common occurrence in hospital settings.

      I didn’t have a birth plan for my first. I completely bought the line that having one was extremely naive and bound to lead to disappointment. I can tell you though that I was extremely disappointed with the completely unnecessary cesarean I received for a baby that wasn’t even showing the slightest signs of distress. Somehow half an hour after being admitted to hospital my ob was able to tell that my baby would never fit through my pelvis. I wish I had had a birth plan - that might have made me consider my options and have a plan for how I would deal with suggested interventions. 

      I agree that a birthplan detailing the music you want playing or the essential oils to go in your oilburner is a waste of time. I would strongly recommend though that all women clearly spell out that when an intervention is recommended they want to be given full information about the benefits, risks, alternatives and consequences of not intervening before making any decisions.

      I didn’t really have a birthplan for my second. Instead I chose better careproviders who actually listened to me and supported my goal of having a vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC). I was incredibly well prepared - I had read everything I could get my hands on about VBAC and natural childbirth, attended independent childbirth education classes and developed a good relationship with my midwives. The birth was the most empowering moment of my life. My son fit through my pelvis just fine even though he weighed a lot more than my daughter had.

      I know that my second experience is unusual in our current maternity care system. I do sincerely hope though Sara that your book contains some stories from women who did find their birth experiences to be positive and empowering.

      Good luck with your book.

    • ibast says:

      03:10pm | 14/07/10

      With two kids of my own and all my friends, families and work colleagues, I’m yet to hear of a textbook birth.  With my two, if they hadn’t have been in a hospital, the first would have suffered cerebral palsy and the mum would have died from hemorrhaging in the second birth.  My message to anyone thinking of a non-conventional birth is “Wake up to yourself”.  The midwife/public hospital system we have in Australia is the best in the world.  Use it.

    • Innocent says:

      09:59am | 15/07/10

      I had a textbook birth with my second baby - they actually used the word ‘textbook’ LOL (my first was too slow to be ‘textbook’ and third was too fast)

      Basically everything happened exactly how it should, and I got a perfectly average baby at the end of a reasonable timeframe with perfect APGAR scores, no complications at all for me or baby, who promptly turned into a ravenous breastfeeding monster.

      Still freakin HURT and I had sore nether regions for the next week or two, but that comes with the territory. People like us don’t have horror stories to tell or rants to give against medical staff so we’re heard less than people who had something go wrong or not to plan.

    • Brian says:

      03:15pm | 14/07/10

      Rather amusingly, given your mention of Danii Minogue’s birth plan not being on a post-it note, we actually DID have our birth plan on one. On a nice, fluoro pink one, actually, were written the words ‘Have a healthy baby with a healthy mother’. This was our birth plan.

      Unfortunately my son decided that the ideal fetal heart rate was about half the normal rate (At 9cm dilated!) and dropping with each contraction, so off for an emergency c-section we went. Lazy bugger. Still, at least I now have a beautiful two month old and an amazing wife who recovered from major abdominal surgery faster than most people get over the flu.

    • Alexandra says:

      03:27pm | 14/07/10

      Hi was endured a 22 hr labour in a public hospital, the midwife assured me i was doing great!! even though I was not dilating with Oxytocin and my baby was brachycardiac, she had NFI what i was going through, I ended up having to have an emergency c section, my baby was already 10 days overdue, swallowed meconium was 3 days in special care nursery, all this thanks to the lack of care by staff in public hospitals, i think midwifes that have been doing their job for too long stop caring, childbirth for me was traumatising, i’m now pregnant again and terrified as to what awaits me, yes i could go private but i dont have 6 grand to cough up as i work partime and my husband is on minimal wage, and private obs just charge over the roof, i hope things change because instead of being a beautiful experience it was shit, horrible, in the end i’m juust thankfull my little girl was ok. If midwives can see that after 8hrs your body is not progressing even with drugs and your water being broken, there has to be a plan of action, instead of prolonging a birth that will not progress and in the end you end up with an emergency.

    • Julie says:

      10:42pm | 14/07/10

      Alexandra, I’m sorry to hear your birth was like that.  It sounds horrible.  Let me reassure you not all midwives are like that.  Most are nice kind women who are very encouraging, and can & will figure out when things are going wrong, although it can sometimes all happen at once.  My suggestion is, is there any chance you could book into another public hospital?  You might feel a bit more relaxed if you are in a different birthing environment.  Hopefully your experience this time around is a much better experience.

    • Beam it out Scotty! says:

      03:38pm | 14/07/10

      Three natural deliveries, three epidurals (one botched) and a three times torn perineum with stitches (I begged for a c-section for my third child, my private gyno refused to schedule me one!) As much as I love my kids, anticipating birth is much like planning how one would best jump off a bridge without injury or pain.

        My Aunts and Nanna find it amusing how the topic of delivery is discussed.  Speak to a few of our sisters of an earlier generation or two and hear about how there was higher death and complication, no drugs.  I am assured that if they had the drugs and intervention back when, they would have taken it and saved the lives of their sisters and infants along with it. 

      I am looking forward to when they figure out how to beam the baby out like on Star Trek.  Yes please!

    • Di says:

      01:50pm | 16/07/10

      Sorry but just cause the baby came out vaginally doesnt make it “natural’. there is nothing Natural about an epidural or birthing on a bed..these things add greatly to your chances of perineal injury.

    • DJ says:

      03:06pm | 16/07/10

      @Di - so if birthing on a bed is not natural what is? I am not having a go, am genuinely curious what constitutes ‘natural’. as I have said in my post I didn’t go the epidural route as the thought of a needle in my spine freaked me out.

    • Ashlei says:

      03:38pm | 14/07/10

      I am a very proud mum of 2. My 4 yr old was an emergency c-section and my 1 yr old was, again, an emergency c-section. Its amusing that this article has been written actually, I have been debating with my in-laws since my 4 yr old was born about childbirth, and what really makes a mother - and having had a ‘blow up’ last week about this very same topic.
      I had the birth plan written, with everything timed perfectly - there was no way that I was going to have a c-section… until I had to have one (my doctor discovered that I had Cephlo-Pelvic Disproportion, so I was whisked away for a c-section). According to the mother in law - this means that I didnt actually give birth, therefore I not a mother to my child.
      My son was stressed, so again, I had no choice in teh c-section.
      There are very few women that actually realise that when it comes to the crunch, what should be thought of is that there is a little miracle that has just taken his or her first breath - not the way that he or she made her entrance.
      Whilst vaginal birth may be excutiating during the time of birth - a c-section leaves so many more scars and is painful in a completely different sense. For the emergency c-section, there is physically and emotional pain, that lasts longer than that I have ever felt before. Perhaps we should forget about which is the best way to give birth - and concentrate on the newest members of our families.

    • SkepDad says:

      04:07pm | 14/07/10

      When I attended our antenatal classes we sat through an exercise, where the mothers wrote on index cards ten factors they hoped for in their impending birth. 

      The group leader then asked each mother to discard one.  Out went the candles and rainforest music.  Then, discard another please.  Then again, until only one was left.

      In almost every case, that final card had some variant of “healthy baby” on it.  As far as I remember, the only mother left holding a card saying “home birth” was the same one who, when told to bring a soft toy for nappy changing practice, brought a stuffed whale.  Not much of a thinker.

      When you choose home birth, you are ignoring the choice your child would make if they were afforded one. You are narcissitically prioritising your birth “experience” over your baby’s safety.  If you kill your baby with your selfish choice, you deserve every moment of the guilt you will feel for the rest of your life.

      We were lucky enough to gain a spot at a midwife-led birth centre in a major hospital for both our totally “natural”, drug-free births.  If we had not, we would have taken the clinical route.  If there was no bed, we would have had it in the hospital lobby.  We should be funding hospital birth centres and clinical midwives, not home births.  Those should be outlawed on child safety grounds.

      As a parent you have to prioritise your children’s needs and safety.  Start doing that before the birth, it’s good practice for later.

    • Elphaba says:

      04:37pm | 14/07/10

      Two thumbs up!!!  Great read, thank you. grin

    • vanessa says:

      05:30pm | 14/07/10

      I don’t know who these people are who are having these ‘elective’ caesarians. I went to one of the best OBs in the country and never was this presented to me as an option. It was always a ‘monitor the pregnancy and see how you go when you get there’ thing. Out of all of my friends, a few have had caesarians, but they were not elective, they were medically necessary. And if it wasn’t for the caesarian, both my daughter and I would be dead. Like the article says, the aim is for a healthy baby and mum. I’m really tired of being made to feel like less of a woman because I had to have a caesarian – usually by men or the home birth crowd. I find ‘too posh to push’ highly offensive. I would have been happy to push if I were able.

    • Alexandra says:

      02:31pm | 16/07/10

      Hi vanessa i totally agree with you, my c section was due to an emergency, if my body would have let me have my baby naturally i would have, it is wrong and horrible for people to say that you have not experienced motherhood if you’ve had a c section. I have a friend who is from a particular religion tell me i will go to hell for having a c section and going agains nature and god. Good luck and all the best, and if c sections save lives then Viva la C Section,.

    • GA GA says:

      05:47pm | 14/07/10

      You spelt Chris wrong….

      It’s Kris!

    • Lyndsay says:

      06:49pm | 14/07/10

      Great article. However, I think it bears mentioning that many women just don’t know what to expect, at least the first time around. Let me be clear - there will be pain. And it may seem unbearable. But that’s the process sans drugs. I don’t think this point is discussed enough pre delivery, and the fear factor builds to a point for some that panic sets in during labour and that’s when things start to go awry. Of course, medical staff that want to interfere in every process leading up to birth also creates a sense of panic. When mum’s tense and distracted from the task at hand, bub’s arrival is going to be affected.

    • Olivia says:

      07:35pm | 14/07/10

      This was a great article and as the comments show is always a contentious topic.  As someone who has delivered two beautiful children naturally without intervention, I consider myself mostly very, very lucky!  What I do have an issue with is that in this day and age with so much information available and so many choices, that some women still choose ignorance.  It IS your body and they are YOUR choices so women need to educate themselves and their partners and make decisions that suit themselves and which protect the health and safety of their child.  It’s no good turning up at the hospital and getting upset by how things work out if you didn’t put any thought into it at all.  I also firmly believe that ALOT of our lifestyle choices these days work against our bodies natural ability to deliver babies without intervention.  For example spending too much time in recliner chairs, wearing high heels or driving in low vehicles (eg holden commodore)  all these things affect your posture therefore affect your babies position therefore affect your delivery.  Would love to know how much time Dannii spent in her heels in the last few week of her pregnance, why didn’t someone tell her she needs to dump them at 20 weeks and spend more time on all fours! (enter appropriate rude joke here!!).  Education is the key here!!

    • Katie says:

      10:54pm | 14/07/10

      Jesus freaking Christ. It’s your body and your choice, but don’t wear high heels because Olivia says it’s bad. Dannii messed up her own labour because she wore HIGH HEELS????? Maybe she even (gasp) SAT IN A RECLINER CHAIR? Oh my God, someone call the Department of Community Services. Next thing someone might get pregnant and behave like a normal person. They might even have fun, or wear a short skirt, or go dancing at a club. Oh, no. We’ll all be ruined.
      Olivia, your speculation about whether Dannii compromised her baby’s delivery by wearing high heels is the nastiest thing I’ve read in these comments, and that is saying something.

    • mumof1 says:

      10:05pm | 14/07/10

      When my mother had me she was strapped to the bed on her back, feet up in stirrups, had her perineum cut and was injected with painkillers without being asked about any of it. The result - a healthy baby yes, plus a mother who was so out of it on drugs that she was barely able to hold said baby and was in complete shock. And that was a normal, complication free delivery.

      When I found out I was pregnant I read read read and made the decision that for me the ideal scenario would be a natural birth in a birth centre, under the care of midwives but with the knowledge that I was close to all the equipment available should there be an emergency. That was MY decision, taking into account my and my baby’s healthy and the fact that I had a complication free easy pregnancy. But I was also open to deviating from my ideal case scenario should it be necessary for the baby’s or my healthy. Not everything went exactly to plan, but I still achieved a drug free natural birth. I feel good about that, but I don’t think it makes me a better woman than someone who has gone a different path. It was right for me in the circumstances, that’s all.

      I am due any day now with twins. I have chosen a different path this time, private hospital with private obstetrician, but my ideal case scenario is still a natural birth if that is safe for the babies and myself. If I need more intervention than my ideal case scenario so be it, but the point is I don’t just have decisions made on my behalf, I have an input in it.

    • Emma says:

      10:41pm | 14/07/10

      My daughter is almost 14 months old. I wrote a birth plan, following a few i read online. Time came i hadnt even printed the bugger out. Got to the hospital, noone asked me if i had one. Didnt matter, i said i didnt want andepidural, by time i was taken into the birthing suite with a nurse and a midwife all i wanted was the gas, and for the final push lol. for me, i found my most comfortable position during birth was as any animal in nature, on all four’s squealing my head off. hahaha. i really cant understand, without the epidural, how anyone could expect to give birth laying on their back! Next time, i’d do it exactly the same way. (up until the point where my mother, with some glee, stated that that was probably the position that got me into the whole mess in the first place, thanks mum, such support) hahaha

    • Brian says:

      09:10am | 15/07/10

      It seems that mothers like making comments like that. On hearing that my son Lucas was born via emergency caesarian after having some distress her first comment wasn’t “Oh! Is he ok? How is Mel doing?” No, it was “Well, at least the playground is undamaged!”.

      Gee, thanks. Exactly what I want to know my mother thinks about.

    • Charlotte says:

      09:16am | 15/07/10

      I rarely comment on the whole birthing argument but couldn’t hold back after reading some of these comments.  I have 3 kids in primary school.  I could not tell you looking at their friends who was born naturally, who was born with drugs, who was born by c-section or who was breast fed!  Better still,  I also couldn’t care.  It is ludicrous that this argument even goes on when it just doesn’t matter.  So long as your kids are healthy in the long run who cares whether they were even delivered on a spaceship!  Go back 100 years or head to any 3rd world country and you will find out that Australian is doing fine and it doesn’t matter if kids are being born with drugs or by caesars or naturally.  You are talking about one 24 hour period in the kids’s lives.  Personally I am more interested in the next 80 years.  As for midwives, with my first pregnancy I was well on my way to full blown pre-eclampsia and still had a midwife telling me to try a natural birth.  Thank goodness I listed to my ob as I and my child would have been dead if I hadn’t had an emergency caesar when I did.  As for statistics on elective caesars, my subsequent 2 births would be considered elective caesars as they were booked in advance.  Why?  Because in both cases my blood pressure was going through the roof again.  Do I regret not giving birth naturally?  No, I couldn’t care less.  When I got pregnant I wasn’t dreaming of a natural childbirth, I was dreaming of happy, healthy kids.  Just leave everyone alone to have kids how they want.  I don’t care about other people who give birth at home or naturally - their choice entirely.  Don’t comment on my decisions either.

    • cass says:

      09:39am | 15/07/10

      Birth centres with midwives are a great option, but only available to a lucky few.
      We have one in my town but it is permanently booked out with a huge waiting list.

      And meanwhile they are even closing down maternity units in country hospitals. That is a surefire way to promote homebirth.

    • James says:

      09:45am | 15/07/10

      This is an interesting one. My wife was planning a natural birth for our first child but had booked into hospital as she was considered high risk. Her labour started on a Friday and then promptly stopped again. It recommenced on the Saturday and by late that night the contractions were regular, we went into hospital. The contractions were rather painless for her and by late Sunday morning, the doctor decided natural birth was not for her. She went into surgery and our son was delivered shortly afterwards. It turned out she has a tilted pelvis so natural birth is not an option for her. She is disappointed but not much we can do. In the end, we now have 2 healthy boys.

    • Sheryl anne says:

      09:49am | 15/07/10

      Wow, there is so much misinformation, which is hardly surprising when obstetricians lie to women and the women print it in the paper for other people to read.

      If you don’t believe that obstetricians will schedule births using dangerous inductions and unnecessary caesareans then how can you explain that they have so many clients a year and are able to schedule appointments. Birth is unpredictable so they wouldn’t be able to do that if they waited for babies to be born.

      ‘Pit to distress’ is when an induction or labour is taking too long and they turn up the drip so the baby will go into distress, then they will tell the birthing woman that her baby is in distress and needs a caesarean. Then they are back at the office in time for their appointment.

      Pesce has quoted figures from studies that have been completely discredited. He hasn’t quoted any studies from the Netherlands where one third of women deliver safely at home. Because those studies don’t suit his scaremongering, he has a living to be made from scaring women into thinking they need a surgeon to oversee the whole process.

      And if you are in love with him, as you say, then its not surprising that you don’t question what he says. All those qualifications, he can’t be lying right? Wrong. He is lying. The facts are out there and those that have actually researched it will easily find that homebirth for a low risk pregnancy, supported by a trained midwife with a transfer plan in place is as safe as hospital birth and the antenatal and postnatal care is of a higher standard and the breastfeeding rates are higher.

      Go and look. You will find it, easily. THEN comment. Not before.

    • Tanya says:

      10:22am | 15/07/10

      I had both my babies in hospital and used hypnosis for both births.
      It worked perfectly but I was happy to take each on its own merit.

      Go in being open to any possibility and accepting the guidance of the medical professionals. 

      Hypnosis has a dual benefit of being able to manage your delivery and also of helping with your adjustment period afterwards and advoiding post natal depression.  as long as baby comes out safe and mum’s not to stressed, all should just be accepted as the way it is.

    • Tinman says:

      11:39am | 15/07/10

      Very interesting indeed that the punch did not print our story considering that The AMA and RANZCOG are well aware of it ?? Not interested in showing the industry and its tactics in the cold hard light ? Only want the sanitized versions put forward by this reporter and her Ob Gyn, in a poor attempt to limit the damage due to the current cases before the courts . The fact that their “clinical care ” policy is going to be exposed before the courts for the abuse it is , instead of buried by the Medical authorities to protect the industries reputation !

    • Troy says:

      11:41am | 15/07/10

      What a great photo of the happy family. Congrats Danni and Chris you baby is stunning.

    • Olivia says:

      02:41pm | 15/07/10

      I was in no way suggesting that these things are to blame but they can be factors and it simply suprises me that Dannii went to such extraordinary lengths to have a home birth and natural delivery but didn’t try any of these natural suggestions.  Of course things may still have ended as they did and healthy mum and healthy baby are always top priority but when she has obviously educated herself to do a home birth I merely wonder whether she considered these things which could affect a pregnant mothers posture and therefore the babies positioning.  Katie, I am very sorry you chose to read my comments in such a negative light and I was in no way suggesting that Dannii was to blame for what happened, only that I was suprised that she obviously educated herself in some ways but maybe hadn’t considered these factors which a lot of people don’t.  If you chose to read that as nasty then I’m afraid you made it so.

    • hmm says:

      03:54pm | 15/07/10

      Any woman who feels cheated because she can’t physically push her baby out is deluded.  There is plenty of pain to be had in the next 18 years+.  One benefit of c-sections is you tend to feel intact (down there).

    • PeterB says:

      10:36pm | 15/07/10

      In Australia in 1900,  men over 60 out-numbered women by three to one.  As explained to my by a Medical Director, childbirth took a heavy toll on women. Nature is not always warm and fuzzy.

    • Beverley Walker says:

      12:18pm | 16/07/10

      I am not wasting my oxygen on some people above who are not prepared for the sake of their baby or their own future health to be fully informed.  Jamie good Ozzie try but frankly it is like pushing p…..g in the wind to try.  Obviously most of them were born when their mothers were lying incorrectly on their back pushing holding their breath in the old fashioned way. If they were lucky they may have been born on RWH hospital steps as I was in 1937.  AS I was breastfed and reained my full set of grey matter I ended up as a Senior Lecturer and supporter of home birth - as I watched normal birth in hospital turned into the carnage os self serving obstetricians like pontificating proponents of surgical birth and users of dangerous drugs like misoprostol and cytotec in induction gels.  How many epidurals have these people witnessed where the innocent mother was paralysed up to her neck and how many women do they know who have postnatal depression?  The hidden for 7 months Californian Research revealed death from repeat caesarians in California doubling - especially in the African American population. http://WWW.amnesty.org.au  Title Deadly Delivery USA
      isbn 978-0-86210-458-0 British Library UK AMR 51/007/2010

    • maha says:

      02:03pm | 16/07/10

      Give women choice YES but please be honest
      INFORMED CHOICE..not FEAR MONGERING CHOICE
      I think for me personally what seems to be the generalised cliched premise upon which arguments around ways to give birth stem from is mostly from a negative assumption about what goes wrong..
      very rarely do we hear mainstream media present
      what goes perfectly normal and joyful and right…..
      BTW I gave birth at home 21 months ago to my third child (2nd homebirth)
      AT 46 YEARS OF AGE…with a v experienced midwife and informed choice and an outlook of positivity in possiibility…..
      Happy to be interviewed by any mainstream journo….

    • Beverley Walker says:

      04:58pm | 16/07/10

      I read above where someone states that Australia has the best statistics for live babies.  This person gives credit to the obstetricians.  Statistics unfortunately are a clumsy way of defining the health of the baby or the mother as an outcome.  Looking closer as most researchers have we find that death rates go up when there is poverty war and famine.  Australia before the the first world war had a higher live born outcome in rural areas than the city where only midwives from Britain were in attendance usually on horseback or bicycle. After 1912 when the transfer to hospitals began and during the first world war statistics were appalling for women and babies due to infection poor hygiene in hospitals and poor general urban nutrition. Not unusually widowhood added to the mix.  In 1912 midwives lost their income as doctors had to sign the Maternity Allowance claim form. Doctors in turn collected the 5 pounds in return for taking over pregnant women’s care.The now “patient” became hospital property.. Doctors needed hospitals to practise in for experimental procedures and pregnant bodies for teaching purposes.  Depression years and 2nd world war and more widowhood related poverty with accompanying poor nutrition again neonatal and maternal death statistics were poor.

        It has been agreed by those with the right to call research accurate, that it is the rise in good nutrition that improves health outcomes.  Compare developing countries and their access to good food,  generally speaking and who make do without obstetricians
      Aboriginal health should be fantastic if it was up to obstetricians skills and the availability of shiny new hospitals and machines that go ping,  But then of course very few obstetricians know how to find the outback where our poorly served aboriginal people live.  The nutrition the colonists gave aboriginal people for working as virtual slaves on squatted land and which also denied them wages comprised white flour tobacco and sugar.  Great stuff people - dash it we now know we should have more obstetricians telling aboriginal women how to birth and where. Why not give them the choice totravel away from their families to the big smoke and have their babies in isolation - they would be so much better off being treated equally as well as white people. 
      After all during the millenia they have been giving birth they were unable to produce healthy children - one wonders how they survived as a race for over 40,000 years. What did they eat?  Eating food grown where they lived and hunting for fish with sticks using physics to design boomerangs must have been a result of ?luck. How did they survive without obstetricians?  The Gods of Cairns had to even fly up to Cape York with ultrasound machines to help aboriginal women to know when were due to have their babies.  I will tell you a secret, the real reason was to fly them to Cairns on their own before they were due, so they could fill the beds in Cairns and claim the bonus and funding from the Federal and State Government for keeping the beds filled with huge numbers of pregnant women. This process has nothing to do with safety.  Left stranded in Cairns without relatives after discharge who cared what happened or how they got back to Cape York?

    • penelope summons says:

      05:59pm | 16/07/10

      All women should have the democratic right to Choice ..and INFORMED choice…..very little choice is given to women of colour any where in the world…women with little or no education…and I am sick and tired of the appalling level of debate which masquerades as legitimate discussion…
      the focus over who and where is best…..is arbitary when there is very little interest by the media outside of creating crass sensationalism…thank god Danni’s Midwife responded,( as she was trained to do) to the situation which needed advanced care…

    • Bec says:

      04:49pm | 19/07/10

      The fact that women in Australia have a choice is a huge privilege. Just think of the millions of women around the world living in developing countries who give birth without the option of pain management and very limited access to medical attention when complications arise.

    • Grevillea says:

      09:24am | 20/07/10

      I am a mum of five children now all adults. Three were born in the UK, one in an excellent hospital in Nairobi and my last at home in Kent.

      From the very beginning of my “breeding years” I made a vital and life-changing discovery in the work of Doctor Grantley Dick Read.  I was given his book on Childbirth without Fear which I found deeply moving and believed. I believed I could, with appropriate exercises, train to have my babies without pain, without drugs, naturally,  just as the good Doctor had witnessed women give birth and continue working in the fields in his South Africa. He believed that women in his today lived sedentary lives which did not help. He felt challenged to help women and their daughters view pregnancy and birth more positively.The words of a woman he attended at home in Whitechapel, London convinced him of the need for change.  He offered her gas and air, which she refused and said “it shouldn’t hurt should it Doctor?”

      He based his work on what he described as the fear, tension - pain syndrome and his exercises stretched limbs and strengthened the pelvic floor area. I dismissed my vacuum cleaner to a corner and brushed everything up in a squat position using a dustpan and brush. My five years of athletics training proved to be excellent grounding to put his instructions into practice and this I did for every one of my five children.  I trained for the most important race of my life - the delivery of my beautiful children without pain, without screaming and with dignity. My husband was there to participate and give witness to the beauty and joy of a controlled delivery.  He described it as the most important event of his life and never forgot how I smiled throughout. He tried many times to tell people of this special event but no one believed him and I must say I have had the same response extended to me by women in this country.

      I am very grateful for the services of the wonderful midwife who attended me for the nine months prior to the birth of my son, for the British Health Services who arranged for the delivery of the Baby Pack to my home and the Doctor who attended and said - “a classic delivery”.  The British National Health System in 1967 had an Ambulance Service which was always in readiness so if anything untoward occurred they came with amazing speed to deliver a birthing mum to hospital. In my case the wonderful Farnborough Hospital.  Every Doctor and midwife, it seemed, throughout the UK understood Dr Dick Read’s procedure, women attended classes together and husbands came too so they could participate in the delivery.  When I lived in Nairobi for two years I ensured that the Gynecologist I chose for my delivery was well versed in the methods of Natural Childbirth as it was then called. My daughter’s delivery at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Nairobi (1961) was a beautiful memory of deep spiritual significance and dignity.

      I would not like to have had my babies in Australia today with all its hard skepticism for if I had to give birth here who would be there for me to share, to understand and to apply Doctor Dick-Read’s methods with me? Mothers should be encouraged to train and prepare for this,  the most important and memorable event of their lives. It is worth noting that a dear friend who did have a difficult delivery, and required surgery, said she experienced enormous benefit from the training we did together prior to the birth of her daughter delivered in a hospital in this country.

    • Pauline Costins says:

      01:07am | 17/09/10

      To the author, it would have been nice for you to get equal representation from the Australian College of Midwives (ACM) as you got comment from the AMA. Normal birth is the area of midwives and midwifery, it is strange that you only get comment from Dr Andrew Pesce an expert in high risk and not balance your article with the view from the Midwifery perspective: But then of course the AMA is not supportive of Homebirth. The press unfairly reported the birth of Dannii Minogue’s baby, by sensationalism failed homebirth, mother rushed to hospital…. instead of good midwifery care and transfer to hospital when required…. its all about instilling fear instead of promoting collaboration and continuity of midwifery care.

 

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