The worst of both worlds

Sam says:

06:36am | 09/03/11

Too right Anna!

Therese Quinlan says:

10:58am | 09/03/11

HEAR HEAR!!  There are disabilities and there are disabilities. I think a lack of compassion is the worst of the lot!

Yak of the Goldfields says:

12:04pm | 09/03/11

Hear, hear. The wife and I talk all the time about how our families ‘adventure’ is making us better people. Our kids have re-adjusted our priorities, and for the better, we think.

Great story mary.

mc says:

10:11am | 09/03/11

If only we had the choice on were our taxes went . . .

Tony of Poorakistan says:

10:20am | 09/03/11

+1
 
Wouldn’t it be nice to actually have this as an election issue.

Therese Quinlan says:

11:00am | 09/03/11

No no no, you’ve got this all wrong - two wrongs don’t make a right.  Refugees should not be made to suffer for someone else’s mistakes.  I think you are speaking from profound ignorance and prejudice.  If you had spoken to and got to know the refugees that I know, you wouldn’t talk that way.

rufus says:

11:01am | 09/03/11

It is an election issue, ToP, in as much as you and others keep harping about it. It isn’t a decisive election issue, though, because both major parties recognise the value in a foreign aid program and most Australians appear to either agree or, if not, don’t think it’s a really big deal.

There will always be a few fringe narks like you and Phil O but never enough to make it a real issue.

Good.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

11:28am | 09/03/11

Therese Quinlan
 
Given that the money will have to come from somewhere (Gillard   already has blown the money Costello saved and put us in debt) - which program would *you* terminate in order to fund this one?

Is this Phil Osopher for real or what says:

11:49am | 09/03/11

of course you would phil of course you would mate. i live in fairfield, in the cul de sac that I live in only 2 families are contributing to this country’s prosperity, 1 is mine, a family of what you would call wogs, and the other is a family of what you would call lebs, all the other 6 inhabitants of the cul de sac are housing commision, not one of them is disabled, the inhabitants live there simply because their parents used to live there, their parents lived their because their parents lived their, the surrounding streets were originally all housing commision built in the 1940s, apparently if you live in housing commision for 10 odd years it is dificult for the dept to evict you, $80 a week in rent, everything is free or subsidised, and they have the nerve to complain about the govt and its policies including migration, all these families are what you would call aussies, as far as i’m concerned not only should they be entitled to no opinion whatsoever on anything, but theyre lips should be stitched up, these people contribute nothing, they own nothing and therefore have no respect for anything, what am i to do, the authorities are useless, these people scare the shit out of me, you should see them, sides of their heads shaved and rats tails, ive tried to talk and be civil, but they see that as a sign of weakness, the only solution for me and the leb is to call our wog and leb mates, that seems to shut them up and theyve been half decent since then, so have a think about that, mate, before you get all timid and scared of refugees and migrants

Chris L says:

03:58pm | 09/03/11

@“Is this Phil Osopher for real or what” - Too right! Let us all remember that there are the good, the bad, the productive and the useless among any society or group. To complain about all the immigrants is no different than to complain about all the “Aussies”.

Not saying this as a recent immigrant either, my family arrived in the nineteenth century and I have nothing against others doing to same thing now.

Michelle Robinette says:

09:55am | 09/03/11

Another NEEFA I see

Faye says:

11:16am | 09/03/11

Calm down Malohi, it’s hardly as if her name and address were published! Surely someone with experience of disability has the right of reply, particularly given the angry tone of NEEFA’s comments.

Were our national hospital system in such ruin and decay as the disability system, I wonder if NEEFA would be as quick to advise people that if they don’t like it to get on a boat and head for the nearest third world country. I doubt it. NEEFA should perhaps consider that disability can happen to absolutely anyone at any time.

That said, I have two little boys who have a disability and I will be heeding NEEFA’s advice, although I won’t be headed for Cambodia I will be heading to the UK where children with disability have the right to an education and appropriate and timely services. That is if we, in Australia, don’t start to treat people with disability with dignity, equality and afford them the same human rights as everybody else.

malohi says:

12:50pm | 09/03/11

Make the strawman arguement if you want. I am not endorsing NEEFA’s comments, I find them as written in the article prima facie ignorant.

However the appropriate place for this article was in the comment section, where for better or worse there was a level playing field (comment length, trail of context etc.) In this form it is essentialy taking one comment out of context and tearing it apart without giving NEEFA any kind of retort.
The substance of the original comment is irrelevant, nor is the use of a nom de plum. It simply amounts to bullying.

CD says:

01:28pm | 09/03/11

Grow up Malohi!

Neefa stated views many find unacceptable and guess what bud?
He/she has that great ability of putting view to computer.

Many may not. Your umbrage on this person’s behalf is laughable and smacks of Neefa under another nome de plume, a friend or a very ugly human being indeed.

Good on you Susie for having the guts to put down a very ugly comment in a very public way.

Erick says:

04:10pm | 09/03/11

Malohi is absolutely right.

This article is just a bullying personal attack on a commenter who doesn’t have an equal right of reply.

I don’t even like NEFFA. I think NEFFA sucks. But attacking her in this way just isn’t fair.

Angry Cripple says:

06:14pm | 09/03/11

I hereby offer NEFFA an equal right of reply. NEFFA - please email me your column in reply. angryozcripple@gmail.com

Rellemh says:

10:10pm | 09/03/11

Has NEEFA asked for a right of reply?  Has NEEFA been refused that right?  I don’t see any comment from NEEFA in this thread.
Malohi, have you ever considered sending in a one of your ‘‘page long essays’ and asking the Punch to publish, or do you just prefer to complain about things without attempting to change them?
Maybe if more people did as Sue O’Reilly has done, the real issues would be debated.
Malohi, in diverting this comment thread from the topic being discussed, I feel that you have hijacked the debate on the dire need for improvement to the provision of services for people with disabilities, which can affect any one of us at anytime.

Jugg says:

04:18pm | 09/03/11

So if someone works hard and earns a decent income they are somehow responsible for providing wheelchairs for the disabled???

Bitten says:

12:04pm | 09/03/11

Wow, Sue, you really are determined to take your anger out on people, aren’t you?

First point: it’s a bit easier to follow in the Punch format if you reply directly to a specific comment. It lets us develop a specific thread rather than starting a new one each time.

Secondly, I can understand you not liking the suggestion that what you have done with your article is essentially bully an individual. No one likes contemplating the reality that bullying is not confined to the schoolyard perpetrated by under-12s. I’m not sure why you think NEFFA’s age is relevant - you would surely be aware that bullying is formally recognised dysfunctional behaviour that takes place in workplaces throughout the world. Workplaces that is, not schoolyards.  Precious few children in the Australian workplace, Sue. So that bullying obviously takes place between adults, as in this case.

Thirdly, you might more relevantly target an individual on this topic were that individual, say, a member of government charged with overhauling disability services in this country. That might be a justified individual based attack. Does anyone have any evidence that NEFFA is a member of government charged with overhauling disability services in this country? I don’t think we do. And in relevantly targeting an individual, you might be better to stick to the professional points, rather than personalising.

Fourthly (sorry to harp but I do enjoy numerate points) I don’t have any, what did you ask me for… ‘substantive points/arguments to make in response’. I don’t because I was frankly too distracted by your bullying attack on one participant of this site’s comment on another article to really pay attention to what you had to say.  In short: your message, be it valid or not, was lost.  Your attempt to patronise me doesn’t help your position either. You’re angry and I can appreciate why. But sadly your anger is misdirected and it’s getting in the way of what you want people to understand.

As LBB has said, you could improve your approach. You’d probably get your message across to a lot more people, a lot more effectively.

Finally, my real beef as I clearly point out in my first post, is not with you Sue. It’s with The Punch. It used to be such a lively place to spend some virtual time - now it’s sliding. Whether it’s misdirected ‘rants-masquerading-as-articles’ such as this or the political party sound-bites straight from the horse’s…well, wherever…I’m just wondering where the editorial direction has gone?

CD says:

01:41pm | 09/03/11

If your complaint Bitten, is with the Punch and not Sue why are you posting here? Talk about carrying it on ....really.

Take it to the Editor and request an article on comment bullying written by you of course to even it all up. It’s your premise it is bullying not mine or others as I note and this article was based on inaccuracies of perception.

Then complain if denied.

Your bullying sounds no better to me than what you accuse Sue of.

Bitten says:

01:56pm | 09/03/11

Hi CD, not sure why you have a problem with my second post. Sue asked, I answered. It’s the polite thing to do, actually.

Rover of North Cooma says:

02:36pm | 09/03/11

Bitten, you sound like the angry one. Sue sounds like someone with life experience and a valid point to make.

Bitten says:

03:25pm | 09/03/11

Hi Rover, not sure where you get anger from my response. Sue asked, I answered. As I said to CD, that is actually the polite thing to do. Polite and angry? Difficult bow to draw. I haven’t made any comment regarding my life experience vis-a-vis Sue’s life experience - that’s entirely conjecture made by you and also entirely without any basis.

LauraBoBaura says:

03:25pm | 09/03/11

@Rover - yes it is a very valid point. But it is a point that could have been made a lot stronger if it wasn’t cheapened by having a go at a poster on this site. As Bitten said, I think Sue’s anger is misdirected.

Erick says:

04:07pm | 09/03/11

Bitten, you rock! Your reply says everything that needs to be said.

As for Sue O’Reilly - straight into the ignore bin with you!

Chris L says:

04:12pm | 09/03/11

What’s up with that?! Are we now going to see an article railing against Bitten

Jugg says:

04:22pm | 09/03/11

It’s a common theme here, if you disagree with the main stream feminists apparently you are angry.

If you disagree with the author, apparently you are angry.

Challenge their conventional thinking and the best they can do is call you angry.

Sue O'Reilly says:

05:27pm | 09/03/11

I “don’t like the suggestion that what I have done with my article is essentially bullying an individual”, Bitten, solely because this suggestion of yours is offensive rubbish, and a stupid distraction from the very important point that is actually (supposed to be at least) at issue here.
How does someone whose identity no one knows, hiding behind a meaningless name, get “bullied” exactly? Your point would only have the slightest semblance of validity if “NEFFA” had asked the editor of Punch for a right of reply, at roughly the same word length, and been refused.
Is this the case?
Personally, I would very much like to see such an article from NEFFA, because the type of view he/she originally expressed needs to be well and truly debated, right out in the open, if an NDIS is ever to become reality. And that’s because we have very cowardly politicians these days who make decisions based solely on focus groups, and if the majority of focus groups participants say something like NEFFA did - “why don’t they all just move to Cambodia and see how much support they get there” etc etc - then the many hundreds of thousands of us literally hanging on by our fingernails, praying for the introduction of an NDIS, are stuffed.
That is the sole reason why the comments of “NEFFA” were worth paying even fleeting attention to - nothing to do with the individual whatsoever; everything to do with the widespread mindset NEFFA’s comments reflect.
But sadly, you have “no substantive points/arguments to make in response” as I requested - because you were “too distracted” and distressed by the alleged bullying? Well, now that you’ve had several hours to pick youself off the floor and recover from the horror of it all - do you think you might be able to come up with some substantive points/arguments now?
And finally, Bitten, at the risk of giving you a terminal attack of the vapours, may I ask what it is you have been “Bitten” by? I have my own theories, but it would be way too mean and nasty even for me to say publicly.

Carly says:

07:04pm | 09/03/11

Scroll down and look at Mel’s comments.

NEFFA put her/his opinion out there and she/he wanted it to be heard- and now it is. If NEFFA can’t handle someone pointing out how callous her/his opinion was (whether she/he meant it to be or not), then why post in the first place?

Discourse is needed on this subject and since NEFFA weighed in, it’s fair game. Opinions like this need to be brought to light so misconceptions can be corrected.

Bitten says:

08:32pm | 09/03/11

Sue, I’m pleased you came back to us. I was never ‘distressed’ by your singular attack on an individual - that’s a conjecture you have chosen to make, seemingly in an attempt to set up your following comment that I should now have had time to pick myself up off the floor and recover - a comment that is in a similar vein to your initial response to me: patronising. And I have to wonder, what is the goal in attempting to patronise someone when what you are allegedly trying to achieve is participation, acknowledgement and agreement with your point of view? Do you want people to support your arguments or do you want people to simply feel antagonised by you? I was only ever, exactly as I said, distracted by your attack on an individual from the main points you allegedly want to get across.

It’s unlikely that I’m the only one to be put off from listening to what you actually have to say, because of the way you choose to say it. Advocacy is not a pointless skill Sue - persuasion is an art form.

Chris L says:

10:07pm | 09/03/11

@Sue - It’s called cyberbullying and there’s been plenty of stories on this site about it.

Not to say I don’t agree with your point. You definately have a good point and hurrah that someone is making it… howevery it is poor form to single out an opponent to harrass in the hopes of making your point.

I believe I understand Bitten’s point. Have you read her post?

Laura G says:

08:43am | 10/03/11

To Sue O’Reilly - Sue, I read that you care fulltime for a severely disabled son. I am a carer too, and if your life is anything as stressful and difficult as mine, I’d recommend you ignore Bitten and others of his’/her ilk who seem very determined to miss the point you were actually trying to make.
You’ve invited Bitten twice now to make substantive points/arguments in response to your article, as opposed to standing up for a poster who frankly sounds big and ugly enough to stand up for him/herself, and Bitten can’t, so my advice would be - ignore Bitten, who sounds like a right smug git. Most people totally get the point you were trying to make.

Yak of the Goldfields says:

05:08pm | 09/03/11

Read and acknowledged Mel. Well put.

Our fears for our children are wrapped up in your post. Best of luck.

GTGG says:

05:40pm | 09/03/11

Hey Mel
Can understand your comments mate.  Following an accident my recently disabled husband and I have struggled to obtain information, certain services and assistance, for people livibng with disabilities.

For us, it started in the hospital.  For all their good intentions, many of the social workers had no clue as to what we were or would be eligible for.  Given that hubby was in a long care unit that has 40 patients at any one time, one would think that the staff would have a very good understanding of what was available and from where.  Even getting things done, such as modifications to our home which have to been done to a certain standard, tooks months - not weeks which it would have taken if the work were done by private contractors.

Whilst grateful for the limited assistance we have received, we wonder how we will cope as he gets older and his disability worsens as we have been told that many services are cut at age 65!

We, like many other families of persons living with disabilities, welcome the NDIS and just hope that it is a fully developed policy and not some ad hoc scheme as currently exists.

BJ says:

07:20am | 10/03/11

Quick question Mel if you’re on the street how can you be posting on the punch? are you the one jacking my wifi?

Mel says:

04:47pm | 15/03/11

BJ - As you can see from my comment, I’m not on the street yet. But the “yet” scares me. I have no idea what I will do if/when that happens.

GTGG - The lack of help to find services is astounding, isn’t it. I was granted the disability pension a couple of years ago, and since then have had no help or contact whatsoever to find what services are available to me. I’ve had to do all the searching myself, which is just like landing in a foreign country and trying to get around without speaking the language. We definitely need fluent “interpreters” to help us find our way around.

Yak of the Goldfields - Thank you. And all the best to you and yours.