Team America: Shock and awe over hearts and minds

Freeburn says:

07:02am | 04/05/11

Good comment, Erick.

Even the Islamic world understands what Bin Laden means to America. It also doesn’t hurt for america to display some force at such a time because as you say, the Islamic world does not respect our soft western ways.

Jeremy says:

07:27am | 04/05/11

The rule of law and proper trials are “soft”?

Apparently you’re closer to the Osama view than many of the rest of us, who actually respect these institutions as fundamental to “justice”.

PS “They could at least have pretended to have thought about a capture, and a trial. Or about making it clear why this was impossible.”

Exactly.

Paul C says:

07:40am | 04/05/11

Good comment Erick, but I would have preferred to see OBL spending the rest if his days rotting in goal. What happened is too much like martyrism.

Super D says:

07:43am | 04/05/11

There can be no doubt that Osama got exactly the justice he deserved.  The beauty of him meeting his end the way he did is that it does not provide an opportunity for grandstanding by some leftie lawyers at a show trial with all the associated handwringing.

Had he been tried he would have been executed at great expense.  His killing is probably the most fiscally responsible act of the Obama administration.

eddie says:

07:44am | 04/05/11

“Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial” - hmmm nice one erick who else isnt entitiled to a trial. - anyone who disagrees with you?  You know , I dont think summary executions are really endorsed by the geneva convention, the un or the law in any “western country”

Kevin says:

08:20am | 04/05/11

If the US had been really smart, they would have captured him alive and told everyone that he’d been killed.  Then they could have whisked him off to some obscure hole and milked him for intelligence for the next 10 years.

AliceC says:

08:30am | 04/05/11

“Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial’

So, by your own theory, if a member of the US army was captured by the Taliban, then the Taliban can do what they want to them? Because the US are the enemy to the Taliban…

Erick says:

08:32am | 04/05/11

Eddie, you don’t seem to have any idea of how wars are fought, or what the Geneva Convention entails.

Soldiers do not hold a trial before deciding to shoot at the enemy. The protections afforded to signatories of the Geneva Convention do not apply to non-signatories, such as terrorists.

Please do a bit of research before making such ignorant comments.

Seano says:

08:40am | 04/05/11

Ridiculous.

We don’t show them we have a better way of life if we behave like them.

That said, he was offered a chance to surrender, he didn’t. But good to see conservatives rightly acknowledging this as a win for Obama.

TheRealDave says:

08:54am | 04/05/11

Hey Alice, not helping your own cause there by saying the Taliban can ‘do what they want’ with captured personnel…..you do know what they do with anyone unfortunate enough to fall into their hands don’t you? Its not exactly Hogans Heroes. It normally involves heads being separated with rusty cutlery while a few people stand around praising Allah.

Incase you’d forgotten….

Rumpole says:

08:56am | 04/05/11

@ eddie - there was no need for OBL to be afforded a trial. One is only entitled to a trial if you protest your innocence.

Not only did bin Laden acknowledge his culpability - he was proud of it.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

09:07am | 04/05/11

@ AliceC -

Are you suggesting that the Taliban puts the enemy (Americans) on trial? With judges and lawyers and a jury?

Are you serious? Is this a joke?

The Taliban already does what it wants with POW’s…......

Bernard says:

09:11am | 04/05/11

I agree with Erick. I have no sympathy for Bin Laden. I do for the civilians killed in the firefight though.

Still there’s less death than if they just bombed the site with Stealth Bombers as in the original plan.

I don’t think the general population has any idea how many potential attacks have been prevented by pre-emptive strikes on terrorist groups as a result of hard, dangerous work by western intelligence services. It’s my understanding part of the reason its hushed up is to prevent wide spread panic through increased risk perception.

Anyway, I think they did some good here, or failing that, prevented a lot more bad.

Bernard says:

09:14am | 04/05/11

Jeremy as far as I understand it, for years there was a multi million dollar bounty out for Osama, dead or alive. Why weren’t you out there risking your life to make sure he was brought to justice? Why leave it to the Navy Seals to risk death capturing him to assuage your delicate sensibilities?

Freeman says:

09:15am | 04/05/11

Yes Jeremy,

In the eyes of the east and the middle east, America and the west are very soft. Of course I prefer our justice system and we should practice what we preach. Just sayin that when it comes to catching and killing the head of Al queda the U.S is justified in launching in such an assault and it doesn’t hurt for them to remind their enemies that they can use force when necessary.

eddie says:

09:15am | 04/05/11

He was unarmed - erick - and according to Mr President ” killed after a firefight” - sounds like a summary execution to me.  Is it ok to kill unarmed old men hiding under their beds? please do not think for a moment I in any way support the murdering prick but lets call a spade a spade, he was executed.

JT says:

10:00am | 04/05/11

Exactly Erick.

‘‘We – and I recognise that ‘we’ is a nebulous group in this discussion – should maintain a close relationship with the idea of human rights at all times’‘’

Ironic coming from someone trying to deflect attention away from who and what Osama Bin Laden represented. Here’s a reality call Tory, some people deserve to die, there is a line between good and evil and the typical moral equivalence of fools of the left is sickening.

By the way, I couldn’t help but notice you threw in the typical head tilt to some so called ‘‘brainwashed fundamentalist nutter Christian burned the Koran’’ which not that it seems to matter to the Left but is a lie - he never burnt it, but that didn’t stop Muslims hacking the heads of U.N. security workers in retaliation.

If you truly think we do not already hold the moral high ground over people like that, than you are truly one screwed up individual.

Adam says:

10:03am | 04/05/11

@ eddie - You should have listened to Erick the first time when he told you to do some research before making ignorant comments. Being armed or unarmed is irrelevant if you are an enemy combatant. All that really matters is you have intent to engage in hostile action. This is why bombing unarmed sleeping soldiers is perfectly acceptable (even if they are old men hiding under their bed). Just as it is perfectly acceptable to shoot an enemy soldier who may unarmed but running towards a pillbox to take up his position on the machine gun.

I also think the quote you were looking for was “Osama bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot and killed, although the Whitehouse says there was a “volatile firefight” underway”. Bit different from you saying he was “killed after a firefight”, eh?

dukdog says:

10:11am | 04/05/11

So true Erick . Why the Arab world thought the US was so bad in the first place is anyone’s guess . The US sucked up to them for their oil for many decades , and denied the Jews Arms , from the late 1940’s .

You gotta have someone to hate ??

john says:

10:22am | 04/05/11

Just think if they captured him alive the CNN, BBC, ABC 24 hour live coverage up until his trial would have killed us all in our arm chairs.

Luce says:

10:41am | 04/05/11

You know what Erick, this is one point I agree with you whole heartedly on.

I’m a big supporter of protecting human rights, but within reason. Bin Laden didn’t just go after America and the West, he was indiscriminate in dolling out a death sentence to anyone who disagreed with his ideas, regardless of age, race, creed or political standing, including many of his own kind. He was, for all intents and purposes, a charismatic, cashed up madman with an intent to cause destruction for destructions sake. THOUSANDS died as a result of his actions, even when you don’t include the toll from 9/11.

It is easy to take the idealistic moral high ground and make proclamations about “setting an example” for those who we’re trying to win over, but it’s not practical all the time. And its easy to criticize the Americans when you don’t have to stand in their shoes and make the tough decisions they do in order to protect your country. But really, can anyone honestly say the world would be a better place if Bin Laden was still alive?

Kika says:

11:36am | 04/05/11

I like what I read yesterday - I really wish they would have captured him and made HIM go through airport security for the rest of HIS life to see. That’s right Osama. A 10 hour plane trip with NO bottled water, deoderant, toothpaste and marched through gate after gate of hardcore security. Don’t even think about that nail file!

mal says:

12:03pm | 04/05/11

our media and the american government has lead us to believe that he is a terrorist.  No one is anything until proven guilty - the legal system isnt just for americans.  You can admit to anything in america, but you still need to be tried and proven… it appears that kill orders exists for non citizens.  dont let the media brain wash your position to much Erick - no person should be judge jury and executioner.  there needs to be a due process - you seem to have missed the whole point of this article

Dale says:

12:08pm | 04/05/11

Spot on EricK. Was a ballsy move by Obama considering he went in without Pakistani knowledge. Thus the soldiers were on a strict timeline to get in and out by stealth. No time to stuff around in hostile territory in a fire fight and needing to leave with a body ASAP. As he said an air strike was useless as there was no evidence and time wise it is easier to carry out a dead man than a live one. One thing they have stuffed up thou. Why oh why after planning such a risky move, going to such a painful and dangerous effort to extract OBL would you than chuck his body in the sea on the flimsiest of pretexts? (that Islamic 24 hour crap) Surely extenuating circumstances apply? That has staggered me. Anyone get the irony of saying in War there is no time for sensiabilities and than in the next sentence saying we ditched our hard earned capture so as not to offend a bunch of terroists? We also won’t show the body as it may offend. Please. Lets see the photos.

matthew says:

12:10pm | 04/05/11

Erick, please do some research yourself - I served in Iraq as a solider in the australia army, whilst there is no formal trial there is very much rules governing the conduct of behaviours and rules of engagement. The Geneva convention applies to the signatories - indescriminant of the person on the other end of the weapon, be there signatories, non signatories - or terrorists as you have called them.  But someone can only be a terrorist if they have been proven to be one - in a trial. Not simply called one, by the same person pulling the trigger. Your opinion of OSL has been provided to you by american news, even translated for you - how you are so quick to form an opinion shows a flaw in your decision making and congitive process.  I agree he should have been brought to justice, but not in this manner… we are the country we are, because we dont operate in this fashion… the americans have acted poorly here.

Wynston Cruso says:

12:39pm | 04/05/11

I think they should have kept him alive with the world’s most highly advanced medical equipment, so that they could torture him a little for the next 10 years.

The only thing I regret is that his death would have been quick and painless, instead of drawn out and excrutiating as he deserved. “But then we’ll be just like them” we would hear people say. To those people I would respectfully ask them to harden the fuck up, and that we’re in this mess because we haven’t been hard enough so far.

Gavin says:

01:50pm | 04/05/11

@kevin

Have you seen a body yet?

pj says:

03:17pm | 04/05/11

If in fact osama is dead,thats got to be a good thing,however,that being said and they have in turn given him a muslim burial,what an audacity.Were any Christian westerners give any respect in regards to Christian rites,or were just beheaded! In my view I would’ve beheaded the muslim infidel and cut his limbs from his torso and fed them to the sharks!!

Rosie says:

03:18pm | 04/05/11

Erick

You are correct but imagine the impact if the Americans had retained the body and allowed Al Qaeda or thoses that had total respect for Bin Laden to be allowed to receive the body of someone they now consider to be a martyr.

Approach the US in their traditional way for Bin Laden’s body to be returned to them for burial and if the burial was to be held in Pakistan leave the responsibility to the Pakistanis.

Now the world is made to believe that Bin Laden the most wanted man is dead and was buried at sea. The words of the US has to be believed for their gung ho American movie style victory. The US made it very easy for his followers.

I like our leaders, Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott and the EU was ecstatic to the extent that I didn’t want Australia left out but included in this historic capture of Bin Laden because of our troops being in Afganistan fighting against terrorism. Hey but I am not a leader and can afford to be cynical after reading and listening to what the experts are now saying.

Geoffery Robertson QC said something that really got me thinking which I think is not going to help our fight against terrorism and have no idea how America and its allies will get out of this one.

Robertson said; “Osama Bin Laden got what he craved for which was martrdom.”

RickyB says:

03:42pm | 04/05/11

Well said Eric.Bin Laden showed no respect or mercy & deserved none. It is because of weak panderers like Tory that the wars just drag on.The west not only fights the enemy now, but the soft western media types at home also.

Jay says:

03:52pm | 04/05/11

To me, if you do something quite as horrible as OBL did, and are quite happy to admit that you are responsible and show no remorse - you aren’t acting like a human, and do not deserve the rights of one.

I’ll never be in a position to make this sort of call, and that’s probably a good thing, but if it were me he wouldn’t have even had a funeral, or the arguable dignity of being pushed out to see - it would been as simple as shoot him in the head, burn his remains to as little ash as possible, and dispose of wherever is convenient and not readily able to be used as a shrine (the ocean would do fine). Forget funeral, forget Islamic tradition. He had nothing but disdain and hatred for the Western world, he doesn’t deserve any respect whatsoever. There would have been no question in my mind, no argument no debate. Same goes for anyone involved in similar atrocities.

Rick says:

04:12pm | 04/05/11

Maybe we should make sure they are guitly before we blow their heads off or make sure we’ve got the right person god fobid they would shoot you Erick and then say oops but thats the way the way of the west.

Dazeddazza says:

04:34pm | 04/05/11

Totally agree with Erick.  Let us suppose they had captured him alive, he then becomes a martyr to his cause, and a trial would drag on for years, and where would he be tried?  He deserved the bullet in the head, no doubt about that.  Sure, there are plenty more like him but deal with them in the same way when possible.  I agree we should be doing more to win over the hearts and minds of the populace of these countries, however there will always be uneducated simpletons who will follow a deranged fanatic.  It is called “Religion”.

Baz says:

04:44pm | 04/05/11

So you people still think that America actually killed OBL a couple of days ago???
No footage, no pics, no body just heresay. Wouldn’t stand up in ANY court of law.
Use the stuff between your ears people, it’s not the first time the US has lied.

Rosie says:

04:57pm | 04/05/11

Jay

I can very well understand your thinking. It is how most of us would think in the western world.

In this case we are dealing with an extreme Islamic terrorist who is idolised by millions and who has died a martyr killed by the enemy.

I feel the US has gained nothing to earn any kind of glorification for killing Osama Bin Laden and then in a willy nilly way gave the body back to his followers for their gratification to dispose of eactly the way they wished to.

The US missed the opportunity of showing the world who had the upper hand by making Al Qaeda and their followers beg for Osama’s body. If they idolised Bin Laden so much they would have begged, hands and knees and everything else to have the body returned to them. America shouldn’t have granted them that privillege as it was the most important thing to them after dieing for their cause was to give him a Muslim burial. The Muslim way is to bury their dead asap, while the body was still warn the better and they were given this opportunity.

It could have been televised for the world to see that this evil man was dead and it would have given us a great satisfaction to see his followers beg for a man that we hated so much.

I feel Punch should write an article on martydon.

PJ

I do feel for you but your suggestion would have only made things worse for the US and its Allies. In today’s world it is something we need to avoid and that is why our leaders have spoken out the way they did. I like Kevin Rudd’s take on it, saying we should wait until we get the full story before making any judgement. Got to give it to him, he is not taking his cue from the Americans.

Major Payne says:

05:09pm | 04/05/11

To the commenters crying injustice re death of OBL…yes, that’s all very sunshine and lollipops to want to capture him alive and send him to trial, but get real! Do you think the Taliban would just sit back quietly waiting for a verdict?  I can only imagine the further death and destruction at the hands of the Taliban demanding his release.

George says:

05:13pm | 04/05/11

“Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial’’ **

**except when they’re one of us.

Mattb says:

06:47pm | 04/05/11

OSL is dead. 

Yay… Yippie… USA, USA, USA…. Every Terrorist in the world is now going to lay down their arms, disarm their bomb vests, cast them aside and join the great western ideology that is DEMOCRACY.

Oh wait.. Umm, they haven’t yet, umm, maybe they will in the next couple of days…

There was only one person in either chamber of congress that voted against the authorization of the use of force following the September 11, 2001 attacks. Congresswoman Barbara Lee, this is what she had to say-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1N-y9Mbo4&feature=player_embedded

Possibly the most sane, reasoned and thoughtful speech delivered on capital hill at the time, yet it was ignored. Could someone here please explain to me just what it is that America has achieved in it war on terror.

Anyone else starting to get the feeling that this is just another shallow victory in a war that is becoming increasingly impossible to win

michael j says:

08:00pm | 04/05/11

@Erick-im with you First strike NOW,,

Nick Buick says:

10:34pm | 04/05/11

I normally agree with everything you post on here Erick… but something troubles me about this whole Bin Laden thing… it isn’t that they killed him - I couldn’t care less if he lived or died… it’s that they seemed so quick to do so and dump the body. It makes me wonder what they were so intent on hiding? They intentionally executed him on the spot instead of taking him alive, even though they had the opportunity to do so - and then they intentionally ditched the body almost immediately in a location that it can never be recovered from… why? What was it that they were so desperate to keep hidden? The whole thing stinks of a conspiracy.

Chris says:

09:51am | 05/05/11

Your comment is ridiculous. People like you are the type of people who if they had grown up where Osama had and gone through whatever screwed up things he went through at the hands of the Western world would probably have planned to bomb America as well.

We have to learn NOT to react to violence with violence. Because you know what that does? Causes MORE violence. For all you know half of these people involved in bombings, etc had family members & loved ones die at American hands.

The only way war can end is if we do NOT react violently towards violence.

Matthew says:

11:08am | 05/05/11

Erick is right, Osama didn’t get a trial because he was aggressive on a “field” of battle (even if it was a house).  This is an army, not a police force.  The enemy is highly trained in weapons AND UNARMED COMBAT.  Armed or not, he hide behind his wife and used other men in his house to fire upon the US army.  There’s no doubt in my mind that the US army did the right thing in putting a bullet in his head.  There was minimal pain, no suffering and he was killed during the course of armed combat.  HE WAS NOT A CIVILIAN.

There was no reason to provide him with a trial as he was resisting capture (as any soldier would do) and was aggressive and dangerous.  When a soldier is on a field against an enemy soldier than I expect one to be dead at the end and do not expect the other to try to capture them.  There is nothing wrong with this and I expect that there has been no human rights violations.

Human says:

11:42am | 05/05/11

LOL - you my friend are well brainwashed. I’m not saying OBL is a good man, far from it, but what pushed him to become this twisted and angry with the world? Ask yourself that question? Seek the answers. Form your own solid opinion. Both parties are as evil as each other, though one has the power to police the world, home invasions on people in other countries. Imagine if someone invaded your house at night with helicopters and assault rifles, pushing you around, telling you how to live your life. You would want revenge, its only human nature.

Human says:

11:48am | 05/05/11

I feel really sad for you Erick and the ones who agree with you. Distorted views. Brainwashed. Sheep. The American Government is the biggest terrorist organisation in the world, with a hitech army. The do whatever they want, just like the Taliban. They invade countries whenever they want. They try to control the world through force and fear. Please wake up.

John says:

12:00pm | 05/05/11

Right on Erick, The French tried to terminate Gaddafi but instead missed and killed his grand children and I think son (to be confirmed) The world wasn’t as harsh on France as it has been on America.

Their country not only suffered a great loss of lives during 9/11 but during the war. I wonder what the middle east would be like if the Taliban and Al Queda were allowed free run without hinderance.

They did what was needed to be done.

Jones says:

12:20pm | 05/05/11

“...very much rules governing the conduct of behaviors and rules of engagement.”
Matthew, may I ask a couple of questions:
Did you see any enemy combatants first hand and if so, did you assess whether they were following the rules governing the conduct of behaviours and rules of engagement?
Would you say that Al Queda were following these rules of engagement in New York, Bali, London or Madrid?
Cheers,

Jon says:

03:27pm | 05/05/11

Sorry, did someone really ask what the US has done in the Middle East to generate such hatred?
How about supplying Israel with billions upon billions of dollars of funding every year (the only thing which makes their position in Palestine sustainable)?
How about overthrowing the first popularlly elected Middle Eastern government and insituting despotic rule in that country (Iran, the 1950s, for the petroleum interests)?
How about then taking that doctrine of overthrowing and crushing any form of popular represntation, while putting in place dictatorial governments funded by the US, with security forces trained by the US, and implimenting it in as many middle eastern countries as possible?
RIGHT NOW they are suppressing the democratic demonstrations in bahrain (which is essential as the site of their largest Gulf naval base) through their proxies (armed and funded by the US).
How about supporting the MOST dictatorial, backward, repressive governemnt in the middle east (Saudia Arabia) as an essential ally that can do no wrong?
How about the invasion of Iraq based on known lies about WMDs, so they could gain strategic control of one of the world’s largest oil reserves? Their own intelligence reports admit to the deaths of at over 100,000 civilians by the US military.
Seriously, go study some history.

Ken says:

08:21pm | 05/05/11

As is very clearly alluded to in this article, the mission wasn’t a simple, quiet “bust”.  There was chaos and shooting.

Any cop who has ever been involved in a shooting will always have his/her actions disected for months or even years afterwards,  yet had to make a life or death decision in mere milliseconds!

Should they have killed him?  Probably not, but we weren’t there.  We didn’t enter a fortified building full of armed personel who philosophy has been to kill the “infidels” at all cost including “martyrdom”.  Even the building could have been booby-trapped in case of such a raid. 

There were people who offered little resistance and were hand-cuffed and not harmed.  That shows restraint.  These guys are Navy Seals, not rambos.  They shot bin Laden, there must have been a valid reason.

Ken says:

08:57pm | 05/05/11

on the question of the “presumption of innocence”, read this interesting article: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/essays/Presumption of innocence.htm

The presumption of innocence is a principle applied in the context of a court trial. 

If you are presumed innocent, you can never be arrested.  You are arrested when there is an effidence of guilt.

Moggy says:

11:55pm | 05/05/11

Agree with you Erick. As much as the middle east will posture & fume, they will still have a grudging respect for what America did. And why?? Because that’s the way that they treat their enemies. No soft, huggy warm & tender moments of understanding their enemies…....it’s shoot first & don’t ask questions later. And to those of you who still want to gasp & grimace at what America has done….IT’S ABOUT FRIGGIN’ TIME!!

Chris says:

11:59pm | 05/05/11

They had to kill him… How many hostage situations would we have now if we kept him alive.  ‘Free Bin Laden or people die’.  I don’t think so.

J says:

08:40am | 06/05/11

It’s easy to criticiset but I don’t think any of you have the right to judge the guys on the ground, the shooters, the men who knew that they would likely die trying to bring in an unwilling man in very hostile territory. What would they have done, slung him over their shoulder and run through the city while the terrorist forces somehow missed them with every shot, just like in the movies? No, they would have died trying to capture Osama.
Question the command level all you want, the soldiers were the ones on the spot risking their lives. Not sitting in an armchair eating cake.

Paulb says:

07:00am | 04/05/11

Notice how this story keeps “evolving”.  Now the man that was shot was unarmed now.  Yesterday he was all guns blazing and using a woman (at one stage a wife) as a human shield.  The ocean burial aka disposing of the evidence really puts the icing on the horseshit cake for me.  We’re told now that people in the US began “gathering” even before the announcement was made.  Prepping the stage for the cameras?  This is even dodgier than the official 911 narrative.  I’m just hoping a few people can wipe the blood from their lips long enough to think a bit and ask some real questions. .... And still, no photo except for a badly prepped photoshop that was immediately discredited.

DON TRUMP says:

08:53am | 04/05/11

Paulb - of course there was a crowd before the announcement, you can’t call the entire Washington press corp back to work at midnight (journalists, producers, camera operators, sound engineers, links operators etc) without a few of them calling their contacts and finding out what the announcement would be about. Plus, the news was out on twitter hours before the official announcement. “Horseshit cake” I suppose you want to see the long-form DEATH certificate do you?

Adam says:

10:09am | 04/05/11

@ Paulb -  I’m just hoping you can wipe the froth from your lips long enough to provide some evidence to support your crackpot theories that the US is somehow lying and this all one big conspiracy. I’m actually even surprised people like you have the internet; I thought your ilk lived off the grid mannnnnnnnn.

Baz says:

04:58pm | 04/05/11

@Adam…

“evidence to support your crackpot theories that the US is somehow lying and this all one big conspiracy.”

How about you provide some evidence that the US is actually telling the truth. No footage, no pics and no body…just their word (which has been PROVEN false many a time).

Adam says:

07:38pm | 04/05/11

@ Baz - How about a bedroom with half Osama’s brain splattered on the wall, a bed soaked in a few litres of his blood, his child on the news talking about how she saw her dad get killed, his wife with a bullet in her leg weeping over her husband’s death, etc. More than enough for a court to determine a murder had taken place. Plus DNA and family members to identify the victim. Plenty of evidence for me

The problem with crackpots like you is that you adopt a position based solely on theories in your crazed mind, and then refuse to change your position even when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You constantly request evidence to prove you wrong, then when you receive it you say it isn’t enough, despite having absolutely no evidence to support your position (other than your own crazed theories that exist only in your mind).

So now you’ve got my evidence that says Osama is dead. Where is your evidence that says he is not? Or is it all just in your head?

ColinP says:

12:31am | 05/05/11

So were all the poeple whose deaths he sanctioned or doesn’t that matter?
He received due process - the same due process he showed all the people he killed!

Matthew says:

11:13am | 05/05/11

Hey Baz, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?  The US has no evidence about it lying and really has no decent reason to lie (after all, they’d get caught out and the problems it would cause would be so great that even killing him wouldn’t look so great anymore).

Col the Pariah says:

01:41pm | 05/05/11

I went to my coffee shop and bought a new coffee - its called the Osama bin Latte - it has a fluffy white head with two shots in it….

Moggy says:

12:44pm | 06/05/11

Acotrel…..The west will be given so much more respect from the despots & their henchmen for what America did than they ever got for the softly softly approach. Sure, there will be riots & probably a few attempts at causing mayhem, but at the end of the day these hysteria ridden countries will think long & hard before attempting another 9/11.  I also think it’s time for the West to announce that any country who harbours those who want to attack us will lose ALL of the funding that we pour into those shambolick states.  This is the talk that these countires respect.

TheRealDave says:

08:51am | 04/05/11

To be fair - a LOT of the crap that comes out is directly at the hands of the media who basically ‘make shit up’ as information is drip fed to them. Not absolving the American Military Publicity machine which has been woeful in the past as anyone would attest.

There’s a pretty good doco about Pat Tillman which is available ‘round the net’ which is pretty good at highlighting just how badly wrong the US Military can get it at times, and quite rightly we should, well rather the US Public should, be on their backs about.

Just take a look at how our own Media went to town on the speculation train when Jake Kovco shot himself while arsing about.

Mouse says:

08:53am | 04/05/11

Chongy, to be honest, who cares about the minute details of how OBL died? Who cares if he was armed and hiding behind his wife, who only got shot in the leg when she rushed the SEAL we are now told, or not? This man was a monster and I doubt very much that he would have gone peacefully anyway. He lived his life in a way that was never going to end nicely. Now all the bleeding hearts will be crying about how he should have been given a trial and dealt with by the courts. Yeah right, that would have been interesting. I wonder how many people would have been killed, how many car bombs would have exploded, how many suicide bombers would have blown up while all this “justice” was being processed.  While I am normally a warm and compassionate person, I am afraid here I believe in the saying “What goes around, comes around”.

Tom says:

10:27am | 04/05/11

... and I suppose the helicopter that went down was due to engine trouble and the OBL’s guards were only firing bubble machines?

Think about it TChong, if they had wanted to get away with lying, it would have been easy enough.

Markus says:

11:00am | 04/05/11

“... and I suppose the helicopter that went down was due to engine trouble and the OBL’s guards were only firing bubble machines?”
Well, it was a Blackhawk…

Snake says:

12:46pm | 04/05/11

Of course we’re being fed.

It is difficult to believe that the son of a loaded Saudi family, who was funded by the CIA for his involvement with the mujahideen against the Soviets in the mid 80s was just assassinated by the same country who provided said funds.

Osama has been a US asset for many years. He provided a great prop to make the phrase “war on terror” synonymous with “war on Islam”. Both the Jewish (Silverstein) beneficiary of the insurance policy on the world trade center towers and the American government had good reason to make Islam the enemy (Palestinians and Oil respectively).

They all succeeded with the “war on terror” campaign and now that Osama has surpassed his shelf life, he’s been released back into civilisation. The world’s most wanted man doens’t get hunted when the world thinks he is dead.

Think about it, a shave, a haircut and a nice suit and you couldn’t pick him in a lineup.

The Islamic burial is all just a convenience to get away with not having the body on display.

Tom says:

02:52pm | 04/05/11

Bwaahhh! Stop it Snake, you’re a crack up.
BTW snake: Elvis is wanting to meet you. Just go to the mirror and look in your neft nostril, he is calling you.

Human says:

12:01pm | 05/05/11

Snake is the only person who has the slightest idea - out of any of these comments.

Buzz says:

07:39am | 04/05/11

Well said, satisfaction rather than celebration.

Having just re-read the article I think Tory is not advocating “being nice to terrorists” but is reminding us that we should apply consistent ethics to all our dealings (again the nebulous “we”) ... and then kill the s.o.b.

AW says:

07:50am | 04/05/11

I’m married to an American and lived there for 11 years. You know how you can say whatever you want about your family, but if others say it, you want to punch them? That’s how I feel about people ripping on the Americans for celebrating OBL’s death. I am annoyed at my US friends for going all U-S-A, U-S-A on us, and have reminded a few of them that other countries have fought and lost soldiers in this war too, it is a victory for the allied forces, not just the US. But on the other hand, this is direct revenge for 9/11.

As for OBL, he didn’t care how many or whose lives were affected by his actions, and I’m having a really hard time feeling any kind of empathy or sorrow about his death. I don’t care if he was sleeping when they killed him. Hitler, bin Laden…the crazies got to go!

Sam says:

05:10pm | 05/05/11

@AW, the crazies are people who are desensitized to violence, war and murder and they have the right to own several weapons each. Take a survey of the whole world’s population (~6billion people) and tally up the votes (for who’s really crazy in this world) if you believe in democracy that is.

Anna C says:

11:30am | 04/05/11

Totally agree, who cares how Osama died, it is not like he cared about how his victims suffered before they died.  The US Navy Seals gave him the opportunity to surrender but he didn’t take it. Who cares if he was armed or not; a fire fight ensued and he was killed.  I’m just glad that the US people have been spared a pointless, expensive and traumatic trial.  It would have degenerated into a circus.  Lawyers like Geoffrey Robertson are just sore that they didn’t get to make money out of it.  We didn’t need a trial to know that people like Hitler and Stalin were guilty of mass murder so why the concern about Osama guilt? He had admitted to his own guilt so what would have been the point? I certainly won’t be losing any sleep over how he died.

Anna C says:

11:30am | 04/05/11

Totally agree, who cares how Osama died, it is not like he cared about how his victims suffered before they died.  The US Navy Seals gave him the opportunity to surrender but he didn’t take it. Who cares if he was armed or not; a fire fight ensued and he was killed.  I’m just glad that the US people have been spared a pointless, expensive and traumatic trial.  It would have degenerated into a circus.  Lawyers like Geoffrey Robertson are just sore that they didn’t get to make money out of it.  We didn’t need a trial to know that people like Hitler and Stalin were guilty of mass murder so why the concern about Osama guilt? He had admitted to his own guilt so what would have been the point? I certainly won’t be losing any sleep over how he died.

Steve M says:

09:58am | 04/05/11

and evil lives in a pit. If you wish to fight it, at some stage you are going to get dirty. The alternative? Play by the rules and let evil thrive? No thanks. There are occasions when our own rules need to be bent or even broken to protect our democratically driven freedoms.

david says:

01:21pm | 05/05/11

That pit has very slippery slopes, getting out is infinitely more difficult than getting in.
Once you’re down there, does it really matter who went in first?

chungo mung says:

08:22am | 04/05/11

so true, the news cycle for the last couple of days has been idiotic. Repetition of the same angles, the same attitudes and the same perspective. However, there was a little evolution in the stated facts - though not from journos asking questions - rather from the slow trickle of information that journos seem to graze on in order to gain their market. Thinking is a concept that seems to be missing from a lot of journalism at the moment, cheers Tory.

MK says:

12:50pm | 04/05/11

have to disagree with both of you
This is a common attitude perspective
Criticising the US acction ehre is like Shooting fish in a barrel,
there are dozens of articles like this one
this one adds very little if anything
overlooks more than it points out others are overlooking

chungo mung says:

01:33pm | 04/05/11

I hear you MK but it is something at least. In our system we want simple answers and seemingly tangible solutions; that which is overlooked will mostly continue to be overlooked. Our first world is so plush and comfy that we don’t want to many questions asked and those that do so, are attacked - hence we develop terms like un-American and un-Australian.

I’m only pleased that at the punch, they did at least one article like this as it gets people arguing and hopefully thinking. Though it is amazing to read where people counter claim so swiftly their ethics and beliefs - with support for our justice systems and methods, but support an exemption of this in particular popular circumstances. Circumstances saturated in emotion, assumption and mass-media coverage which not only informs but more surely influences people.

Matthew says:

11:55am | 05/05/11

Chungo Mung, please name another case where the leader of opposition army wasn’t killed when he didn’t surrender.  The closest case you can come across is suddam who willingly surrender and was afforded a trial by the exact same government.  I have no doubt that the US would have captured him peacefully if they could.  They have before by someone just as hated by their country and they would in the future.

Adam says:

01:04pm | 04/05/11

The Americans started it when they trained OBL and gave him weapons. They started it when meddled with governments in other countries. I didn’t ask for the US to be the world police. The definition of a terrorist depends on who is applying it. I am definitely not an OBL supporter but the US have killed way more innocent people (Iraqis, Afganistanis, Vietnamese, koreans etc etc) than OSL ever did.

mb says:

02:00pm | 04/05/11

Love this comment. And so very true

Bob says:

03:35pm | 04/05/11

Adam: Cold war. You seem to have forgotten about it. Lots of otherwise decent countries did lots of messed up stuff because frankly, the Soviet Union was worse and some stuff that has turned out badly was necessary to stop the Soviet Union expanding. If you’d done some research into it you’d have found that the reason they supported OBL and his ilk was because they were willing and able to fight Soviet invaders.

John says:

06:53pm | 04/05/11

This is a myth OBL was not trained by the Americans, all the American did was provide weopons and information to the at that time Mujjahadin who were fighting the soviets but lets go back to the history of Afganistan. After the soviet invasion Pakistan had started worrying about Afghan as it was forging relations with its most hated enemy India. To stop this Pakistan created the Taliban who they sent in to stop the relationship growing and to create an ally for themselves to use against India.

Also in regards to the soviet campaign, Pakistan provided its own soldiers to the Mujjahadin to fight the soviets. The reason for providing these forces was to have battle prepared soldiers to fight India when Pakistan choose again to try to invade India.

Adam says:

01:05pm | 05/05/11

Aaargh, someone with the same as me. The dude above isn’t the *real* Adam

Ken says:

08:50pm | 05/05/11

Adam; “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.  during WW2, the Russians were allies.  During WW1 the Japanese were allies.  Just because US funded/trained/supported OBL doesn not mean he can’t be turned on. 
Vietnam was a FRENCH colony.  The French got their arse kicked at the apparently forgotten battle of Dien Bien Phu.  The asked for help from their good friend, the US then said, see ya, we leaving now.  Korea was a UNITED NATIONS effort, again history conviently forgotten. So was Afganistan.  Funnily enough, so is the action in Libya.  Iraq, rightly or wrongly was an US unilateral action.  But never mind, let’s just blame the Americans. 

BTW, Isarel/Arab conflict; Israel existed during the time of the bible.  Salahudin conquered and captured the land that was Israel during the time of the “Crusades”  (remember them?).  The current state of Israel was created by the UNITED NATIONS, but they forgot to tell the Arabs.  Another forgotten bit of history.

Adam says:

09:50am | 04/05/11

@ Kevin - The military will always have a primary goal of eliminating the enemy and while they endeavour to minimise collateral damage, this is a secondary consideration out of necessity.

I’d also suggest that OBL being obscured behind his wife (possibly a willing human shield) would have made him appear a threat to a US soldier that had just fought his way into the world’s most wanted man’s house. For all that soldier knows OBL may have a bomb vest on, he may be going for a gun or the female hostage may be part of some ploy. So he did what all soldiers are trained to do when faced with making that split second decision; he pulled the trigger and eliminated the threat(s) as he perceived them, accepting some collateral damage as he did so.

I also qualify all of the above with the same observations:  1) I wasn’t there; 2) the full account of what occurred hasn’t been revealed.

fml says:

09:57am | 04/05/11

Any thing could be said really. Using his wife as a human shield doesnt surprise me.

But i wonder what happened to his wife? where was she buried?

Stiffy says:

10:18am | 04/05/11

FYI. I have read a report this morning that she was shot in the leg. If true this is an unlikely mortal wound. You wonder why our police are unable to do such. Why is it that when a policeman draws his revolver and is required to fire, it must always be a shot to the upper torso no matter what the scale of threat the person is posing? Tasers seem to be the answer but you can bet these Seal operatives were not carrying any tasers.

fml says:

11:16am | 04/05/11

@stiffy,

so he didnt use his wife as a human shield? or was she a couple of feet taller than him?

Stiffy says:

01:13pm | 04/05/11

@fml
Don’t know wasn’t there.

Brett says:

02:46pm | 04/05/11

Our police (and our military for that matter), are taught to aim for the centre of the seen mass, in order to maximise the chance of hitting your target. The fact that the wife was shot in the leg highlights the skill and reflexes of the members of SEAL Team 6. Your average policeman, or infantryman for that matter, simply isnt taught to do that.
Noone, other than the man that pulled the trigger, will be able to explain why they chose to shoot OBL. And unless we have access to the debrief of the individual, and a full account of the event and actions leading up to that decision, none of us is in a position to pass judgement.

fml says:

10:06am | 04/05/11

“Using the playground resolution process favoured by the left, may be reponsible for extending the war on terror and costing more lives than may have been the case otherwise.”

Using it for political gain, naughty naughty. Might i remind you it was a socialist president that caught him, the right wing nut jobs spent ten years and 2 trillion dollars and couldnt find a 6ft 4 slim santa claus riding round the desert on a donkey.

How the hell is this a victory for the rootin tootin gun tottin’ everything is bigger in texas right?

Its a victory of careful planning and execution, not a gung ho, shock and awe, jump in the deep end with star spangled banner playing on the boom box while eating a steak, and, smoking a cigar look at the size of my uzi, did we get that for the camera hollywood style premature mission accomplished, rag tag, big bollox, take the girl next door to the prom, mid west, USA USA USA victory.

Vaunted says:

01:35pm | 04/05/11

@fml says ‘it was a socialist president that caught him’: that would have to take the cake as the most naive and stupid statement I have ever read.

fml says:

01:49pm | 04/05/11

@Vaunted,

I was being sarcastic, i dont think he is a socialist at all.
Or, you dont think it anything to do with Obama?

James1 says:

02:06pm | 04/05/11

All well and good, and most likely true, at least in the eyes of any reasonable person.  However, if we do not hold ourselves to this standard, then we can not hold anyone else to it either.  If, say, the Taliban captures an unarmed American soldier and shoots him on the spot, can Obama complain with being a hypocrite?

Matthew says:

12:10pm | 05/05/11

James1, they did not capture him then turn around and put a bullet in his head.

They shot an aggressive, dangerous, enemy soldier DURING COMBAT and then provided his body with the burial that is required by his religion (a nicety, but definitely not expected).

The enemy captures US citizens, puts them in front of a camera and then beheads them.  There is no burial for these people.

How are these the same things?

TChong says:

08:18am | 04/05/11

TB, thought you were a pinko , vegan?
But , back to your post .
Would you serve him with chips or salad ?
White ? red? or a schooie of VB?

TimB says:

08:45am | 04/05/11

Badger have you seen the Taiwanese take on Osama’s demise?

Satan seems to share a similar amusing sense of justice to you

http://www.nma.tv/bin-laden-dead-video-animation-terrorist-leaders-final-moments/

MarK says:

09:01am | 04/05/11

Awww Badger is challening Birmihgham or is that you John…John?

The Badger says:

09:10am | 04/05/11

timmie
dead link
no pun intended

Al says:

09:20am | 04/05/11

TimB:
It looks like that clip has been removed.

The Badger says:

09:21am | 04/05/11

Goodness TC I wouldn’t eat him, when he was done, I’d feed him to the pigs with some freshly harvested corn.

Mouse says:

09:24am | 04/05/11

Sorry, TimB, they have closed that link already. Censures are going to be pretty busy for a while I would think!

TChong says:

09:48am | 04/05/11

Mouse re TimB link;, the weather reports were interesting.
TimB - how / why did you ever find this site ?

The Badger says:

09:59am | 04/05/11

was it this video?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_1304363717

Markus says:

10:26am | 04/05/11

Links gone already? Damn. One of the first things I thought when watching reports of his death was “I wonder what the Taiwanese News stations’ take on this will be!”

Joel B1 says:

11:02am | 04/05/11

Yes, not bad re roasting in a pig skin, but, why not go the whole hog and skin him on-route to a watery grave? A couple of handfuls of salt and into a bag and the tanning can happen later.

Then it could be made into a lamp-shade for Obama’s desk.

TimB says:

11:24am | 04/05/11

Crap. I stole the link from Tim Blair (without checking it) because I can’t view vids here at work. I would have posted the Youtube original

Apologies all.

Badger, no idea if that’s correct vid or not can’t see it

But if you can bring yourself to enter the a pit of evil right-wingers, You can check the original vid for yourself on Blair’s post:

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/ji_ha_ha_ha/

Mouse says:

04:44pm | 04/05/11

Very cool Chongy, I can now expect daily weather reports from you? lol

Seanr says:

09:10am | 04/05/11

You really think they needed another excuse to be pissed off, they’d just make one up, have been for decades.

Who cares if he was unarmed, he was an organiser, a figurehead did more harm unarmed than any one of his lackeys.

fairsfair says:

09:24am | 04/05/11

How do you know though Joel? You are only basing your opinion on drip fed information like everyone else.

Irrespective of how the man died your final line stands but it is the USA’s decision as to what message they wanted to send to the world and clearly they wanted to send this one.

fml says:

10:12am | 04/05/11

Seanr,

“You really think they needed another excuse to be pissed off, they’d just make one up, have been for decades.”

Yep because, The two gulf wars and the iran-iraq war where america was selling arms to both sides was just imaginary, it never happened.

Adam says:

10:15am | 04/05/11

Actually, we all don’t know anything for sure because none of us were there. They I would suggest OBL could have concealled a bomb vest rather easily. Better to shoot first and check later.

Rick says:

11:10am | 04/05/11

Seanr…........1,000,000 dead Iraqis….........they’ve got plenty of reasons to be pissed off

David C says:

11:26am | 04/05/11

Rick where di you get that figure???? 1,000,000????? even Wikileaks quotes a number for 150,000

Hamish says:

11:29am | 04/05/11

Joel, a trial was not an option. It would have been a circus and just given him a massive global audience to pander to. This was a mission to kill and should have been. This man was a terrorist, a military enemy, not an armed robber. You kill your enemies when you get the chance. You don’t piss fart around.

Why would moderate mulims be pissed off? Unless, of course, they’re not moderate at all. The west needs to understand that people in the Islamic world respect power, not decency. This is a massive propaganda coup for the west. It is a symbol of power, especially in the context of the timidity surrounding Libya. Not even power really, it is a sign that as much as the west is decadent and divided, we can still bite. We can still, at least very occasionally, make our enemies pay in blood for their crimes.

I congratulate Obama for having the balls to give the order. It’s certainly out of character for him. The potential for this to go terribly wrong was very high. And as you sit there whining about the morality of killing someone who deserved to die, you should at least recognise that it’s people who have the moral integrity to know when to kill for what they believe in who keep you safe at night, not people who are willing to pontificate on blogs.

Seanr says:

11:44am | 04/05/11

@Rick, you realise that figure was discredited by Wikileaks, also how many of the civilian deaths were the result of Muslims killing Muslims?

@ fml - 1st Gulf war started because Iraq invaded Kuwait (Muslim v Muslim), US went in under UN authorised intervention,
2nd Gulf war was a US lead coalition.
Iran/Iraq war another Muslim v Muslim conflict, how is this the USA’s fault?
My point is that extremist Muslims (not moderate ones Joel) will use any excuse to attack the West and have done for decades.

fml says:

12:10pm | 04/05/11

@seanr

“Iran/Iraq war another Muslim v Muslim conflict, how is this the USA’s fault?”

They were selling arms and intelligence to both sides, while Iran was under an arms embargo, to fund the contras in Nicaragua to import contraband into the US.

It may not directly be the US’s fault Saddam invaded Iran, but there is a hell of a lot of bad sentiment in the middle east for their unethical conduct. Hence they have reason.

LauraBoBaura says:

12:41pm | 04/05/11

Couldn’t care less if he was unarmed. Don’t care that he was shot in the head execution style.

MK says:

01:05pm | 04/05/11

@Seanr
Iran/Iraq war another Muslim v Muslim conflict, how is this the USA’s fault?
2nd Iraq war

Number of insrugents/Al Qaeda before US invasion : 0
ZERO,

It became a rallying point for a new mhuajideen jihad from all over the muslim world

Afganstian 3.0

They took out a secular tyranical Dictator who was an enemy of Al Queda

LauraBoBaura says:

01:09pm | 04/05/11

Infact Joel, I wouldn’t have cared if they cut off his head & mailed it to Al Queda.

James1 says:

02:41pm | 04/05/11

“You all do know this will seriously and rightly piss-off most even moderate muslims?”

Actually, no.  In case you missed it, moderate Muslims and their leaders all over the world are expressing their happiness and gratitude that OBL is dead.

Syl says:

04:26pm | 04/05/11

“You all do know he was unarmed when he was shot execution-style in the head?”

The object of the operation was to kill Osama.  Should they have changed that just because he was unarmed?  How does this make him less of an enemy?  What is the “right” way to shoot somebody?  I just wish they had taken the time to dip the bullets in pigs blood first.

“You all do know he wasn’t “reaching for a weapon”?”

Again, he is the enemy, the operation was to kill him, the fact that he was weaponless and didnt have one handy is a bonus for the troops that were in less danger as a result.

You all do know this is the biggest cluster-f#ck ever?

There was an operation to kill Osama after months (years) of intelligence gathering and hard work.  He was killed.  No allied soldiers were killed.  Sounds like a success to me…..

You all do know this will seriously and rightly piss-off most even moderate muslims?

No it won’t, moderate Muslims, we are told, do not follow Osama.  After 911 they condemned his actions.  Osama did more to further the discrimination of Muslims than anyone else in this world (with maybe the exception of that nutter in Indonesia).  The hardcore Muslims will be pissed off yes, but hey, there were pissed off before, thats why 911 and Bali happened.  And numerous foiled terrorist attempts.  We should not bend our way of life to pander to the whims of the boogeyman, thats how the boogeyman wins.

“Hurrah for the USA! Just dumped us all in the shit again. “

We were already in the shit.  The yanks eliminated the most wanted man in the world and the man responsible for thousands of innocent lives lost in the most cowardly attack I have ever seen.  For the past 10 years it has been no secret that the U.S is hunting him.  You may like us to act in a way that keeps the enemy happy but I have no wish to do so.  Are the yanks totally blameless in all this, hell no, but they had every right to hunt this vile human down and stick him like a suckling pig.

Stang says:

10:19pm | 04/05/11

@Joel B1 - you’re spot on.

ColinP says:

12:29am | 05/05/11

Next time the US finds a terrorist we’ll sit down and have a conference with you and others that think like you and we’ll have a democratic vote as to what action we can take. If that’s all right with you of course?

TracyH says:

12:55pm | 04/05/11

Richard…no truer words have been said! Reminds me of the saying about people who live downstream from dams: If you live 100k’s down, you worry occassionally about the dam walls breaking…if you live 50 mtrs down, you worry constantly, and if you live 1 mtr down, the fear is so intense you just ignore it all together and sooner or later, have no concept of fear at all.
Our collective ignorance of the threat of China is astounding.

Gratuitous Adviser says:

09:21am | 04/05/11

Hi Luke-A close look at the NEWS videos of the “frat boy” antics of Americans celebrating the death of OBL says a lot about the quality and aims of current NEWS reporting and the resultant influence on the American culture. 
To me, there is no difference in a group of fools “false screaming” with delight at OBL’s demise in the US than watching the “rent a crowd” at any pro or anti-Gadhafi rally in Libya, shooting their guns into the air with apparent rapture with whatever.  It is all either stage managed by the press and/or some people just want to be seen and therefore go overboard.
Unfortunately for the Americans these antics have been going on for so long, they have become part of their culture and are not only tolerated, they are expected as a sign of delight with anything.

Peter says:

11:02am | 04/05/11

Luke there is a big difference between celebrating the death of a terrorist directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent civillians and muslims celebrating the deaths of those same innocent civillians.

TheRealDave says:

01:55pm | 04/05/11

Stop speaking sense Peter, the guilty middle class, who’ve never had to earn anything, doesn’t like it when you point out flaws in their stupidity they’ve agonised over for hours in coffee shops.

The almost weekly ‘Death to America/the West’ and cheering on by ‘Islamic Hordes and Rentacrowds’ everytime some civilians get butchered or someone says something they don’t like somewhere in the world is of course the exact same as the tracking down and killing of the worlds most wanted terrorist who plotted and organised the murders of thousands across the world over a decade or so…....

Steve M says:

10:02am | 04/05/11

today it was DNA and facial recognition software. That not enough for you?

KH says:

09:36am | 04/05/11

1940? Are you sure?!  Germany was at its strongest then, and there were some serious brains sitting behind Hitler - many of their military failures later in the war were a direct result of his intervention and failure to understand the limitations of his resources - put a better head on that snake and it could have devoured us all.  Timing is also important in these things.

OBL supplied money and the inspiration (if you want to call it that) but I’m guessing there are either going to be multiple factions form now that will be even harder to combat, or a new, younger and fitter ‘leader’ will come to the fore…......Machiavelli had it right - you have to take out the whole family to eliminate anyone who might want revenge - unfortunately, in this case, the ‘family’ is millions of people whose common feature is a religion that preaches destruction and hate.  This will never end.

ShamWow says:

09:18am | 05/05/11

KH, get a grip mate…Islam preaches as much destruction and hate as Christianity.

Tom says:

10:15am | 04/05/11

Too much flaccid “equivalence” in your comparison. Innocent office workers are not the same as a calculating murderer of those innocents.

Kika says:

11:37am | 04/05/11

An extremist is an extremist. It doesn’t matter who they are or where they come from - nutters are nutters.

Sam says:

03:20pm | 05/05/11

Ooo ooo opportunity for me to ramble on (and potentially provoke someone) ... I cannot resist. There are multiple competing (and not necessarily mutually exclusive) agendas, there is no 1 “real agenda”. In fact thinking in those terms could mislead you into thinking there could only be 1 “real agenda”. The US is not a single voice, it is the mouthpiece for many determined voices accross the globe. The US is “doing stuff” on behalf of many causes. It’s competitive advantage is the opportunity to exercise power. If you want to have an impact on the world, you will have to go through the US one way or another. They are the facilitator of freedom and capitalism. No doubt they want to retain “majority control” of who is allowed into the party, and no doubt you have to pay a tax to get in. I doubt any communist would be allowed to transition to capitalism of their own volition without being forced to allow access to local markets for multinationals (as if capitalism was ever meant to equate to zero-protectionism for local players). I also doubt any dictator would be allowed to transition to democracy of their own volition without immediately being bombarded by allegations of corruption that erase any memory of their benevolence. That’s why dictators fear pro-democracy activists. The US regularly touts the beautiful American ideals as embodied by the declaration of independence, but they don’t tell you that they hold the door and the key and you must inevitablly enter and entry is not free. The US is the big daddy whose agenda is staying the big daddy till kingdom come and spawning as many agendas as their stakeholders can fund. You’ve got the means or something of relative value, they’ve got the opportunity to exercise their power to make it happen. What happens to the world is the net effect of the collective will of these stakeholders. Let’s hope they all woke up on the right side of the bed this morning. Also remember that rich/influencial people are more interested in making more money than starting wars, so all will be fine in the end. It’s just the little people who feel the most turbulence along the journey, probably because they didn’t realise the value of money early enough. ... that’s it my concentration span is out

Tom says:

10:35am | 04/05/11

Well said, Seanr, funny how cowardly western journos moralise only when it is safe to do so. Not for them the Mugabes, Gaddafis, OBLs or the other cold blooded murderers of innocents. Too tacky, they might be attacked.

Hamish says:

11:53am | 04/05/11

The Islamic world respects power, not hand-wringing journalists. On another note. Why are people worried that ‘moderate’ muslims will be upset by this? Surely moderate muslims would celebrate the assassination of a man who was a murderer of muslims as well as westerners? Interesting to note that Osama managed to survive so long in a relatively ‘moderate’ muslim country without much trouble. I guess no one must have seen him. He was, like, at least 50km away from the capital city.

fml says:

01:33pm | 04/05/11

@seanr

“This happens not because of something we do but because of what they want, Muslim domination with a Caliphate.”

Cods wollop, hoo har and twiddle twaddle. Saddam hussein was the only expansionist arab in the middle east and now he’s gone. So how are they going to go about to create this caliphate?

Seanr says:

02:20pm | 04/05/11

One of al-Qaeda’s stated aims was the reestablishing of a Muslim Caliphate, use google it is a very useful tool. As too how they will do it, wikipedia provides a nice little summary under al-Qaeda.

Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb ut-Tahrir whilst not terrorist organisations under Australian law, but certainly fundamentalist, amongst others also advocate it.

fml says:

03:29pm | 04/05/11

Seanr the smug,

Oh silly me thinking that i didnt need to use a tool like google to search for useless drivel.

How do i know you didnt change the wikipedia article?

Wayne Kerr says:

10:51am | 04/05/11

Yeah, you’re right.  We should just let them do what they like.  If we ignore their behaviour, I’m sure they’ll stop having suicide bombers kiiling innocents.  If the US really wanted to let them know they were angry they should have wagged their index finger at them and said “Bad terrorist, this is unacceptable behaviour”

Brutus Balan says:

09:44am | 04/05/11

Invading a dysfunctional failed state like Pakistan which harbored this man is not invasion but doing what Pakistan failed to do. Sweet revenge of evil is welcome.

Steve says:

11:41am | 04/05/11

I think revenge is an important part of justice. You can extract revenge from his death or another punishment such as impisonment but it is still a form of revenge. Revenge helps the victims families. In this instance justice(revenge) has been extracted via death.

John says:

10:12am | 04/05/11

Don’t give up your day job at military propaganda inc.

Brutus Balan says:

10:27am | 04/05/11

@ John: Intellegent response to another’s comment is useful to the discussion but leftist meaningless retorts demeans ones intelligence. I hope you do have a job that requires no thinking.

cityboy @ Sydney says:

10:28am | 04/05/11

Cute, but that notion didn’t turn out too well for him, did it?

Jason Todd says:

11:54am | 04/05/11

Misquoted. Or rather, mis-applied. MLK Jr didn’t say that. Part of the quote is attributable to him, the other part to Penn Jillette. It’s a whole big thing, made worse and spread by social media.

Check your sources!

Steve says:

11:33am | 04/05/11

Matthew my answer is none. They are not perfect and will mistakes but they are the best for the job by a long margin. Having said that I think that we could look at a model of regions with other countries stepping up within those regions to take on some of the responsibility for stability perhaps in partnership with the US. (Just don’t ask me who steps up in the middle East region). You know in some ways I miss the cold wars days because stability was much easier with 2 super powers. Also spy novels have just never been the same.

Shane from Melbourne says:

11:54am | 04/05/11

European Union or NATO. I prefer not to have just one country acting unilaterally as the world police, thank you.

mal says:

12:15pm | 04/05/11

Switzerland, Norway, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, France, Canada…. any country that believes in the autonomous right of country to make its own political judgements, and only stand in when human rights are being abused.  And not simply give arms to the opposing side that supports your view…..should I continue?

ryan says:

12:17pm | 04/05/11

um… the United Nations.

Andrew says:

09:15pm | 04/05/11

Ryan the The united nations, since when have they shown any balls and done the right thing, and who do you think is right out front when they do do anything, thats right the USA. United nations has to the biggest misdemeanor ever, since when have they being united, each country is only interested in whats best for them.
Mal please dont continued as we can only listen to so much crap, Australia, Canada etc etc, really you do realise that if your actually going to the ‘world police’ you actually have to be able to back up your words and you actually have to have enough power that countries will listen to you and to a lesser extent fear you. At the moment you basically have 2 choices China or USA. The USA ia a buch of arrogant arseholes but there still a better choice then the others.

lol says:

08:49am | 05/05/11

The US currently funds 22% of the UN, almost double its second largest contributor, Japan.

NATO’s military budget AKA enforcement arm is funded by the military assets of member countries. The UK got a good round of Tomahawks into Libya early on but once again the US fields a defence budget an order of magnitude above its nearest competitor giving it an order of magnitude more contribution to the final balance of hardware and manpower (lives).

Sometimes it can be hard to admit that the 6 floating cities in global flashpoints might assist in contributing to international security. I know, I know, it seems crazy to assume that world peace could be maintained by threat of engagement from a global superpower.

Maybe if you had a stable secular Government before boasting about nuclear weapons or abolished oppressive dynastic rule in favour of international assistance for the people or didn’t allow the nepotistic brutalisation of your people for shits and giggles you wouldn’t have to worry about drawing the ire of a 21st century hegemon.

It gets incredible economic benefits and often makes mistakes as a country of 300 million squabblers is likely to do. But this constitutional superpower also pays multilateral rent. Something it doesn’t have to do.

Be careful what you wish for.

Kika says:

11:56am | 04/05/11

Defence = Prove beyond reasonable doubt that OBL had any involvement in doing, orchestrating or committing any of the offences charged against him
Prosecutor = We have none. We have proof that Mohammed Atta and friends orchestrated the whole thing and we can only assume he was told to do it by OBL.
JUDGE = Do you have proof of that?
Prosecutor = No. We can only assume because we believe they had links with Al Qaeda.
JUDGE = No proof beyond reasonable doubt. The defendant is acquitted.

That’s why they didn’t arrest him (if they did..)

Brasil says:

12:31pm | 04/05/11

Except for the fact that he admitted it. Oops!

LauraBoBaura says:

01:07pm | 04/05/11

Prosecution: Oh wait! We have this videotaped confession your honour.

Kika: Oh, I probably should have researched that better.

Kika says:

01:30pm | 04/05/11

Are you guys legally trained? No! You need hard evidence to prove guilt. There is no hard evidence he did anything. You have his first tapes actually admitting surprise at the whole thing. Once he realised he was being accused he relished in it. He hates the West so of course he would have loved being attributable to is.

You need hard evidence to prove guilt. America had none other than hearsay.

There is no video taped confession. He’s dead. Duh. Gone. Kaput.

As IF America wouldn’t have put him to trial if they thought they would win. Why else would they ping Mohammad Atta & co (hard evidence) and not OBL (No evidence… only a very shaky chain of possible connections).

I’d love to be an expert at nothing. However I have a university degree with a high distinction in international and transnational crime and work in an industry where we need hard evidence and proof to do anything, so alas for you I do know what I am talking about.

Kika says:

01:36pm | 04/05/11

Put it this way… if you say to your friends that you think it would be really cool to egg your principal’s house. Your friends tell their friends who tell their friends. Because they think you’re pretty cool and they are really gullible and get sucked into the peer pressure they go and do it. Are you responsible? Not really. Did you have an influence on doing it. Yes. Can you be held LEGALLY (I.e. beyond reasonable doubt) liable? No.

Let me say I in no way support OBL. He’s a hypocritical, moronic psycho who hated everything the West stands for , despite his youth time relishing in the very things he purported to hate. He deserved to receive the full force of the law and tried as a war criminal under international law at the Hague - just as Saddam was. Not assassinated and killed (allegedly) by the Americans Team America style.

However, America aint dumb. They’ve had 10 years to find this guy and find a way to deal with him. They would have no doubt that if they DID trial him they would have to prove beyond doubt that he WAS guilty beyond reasonable doubt of doing the things they reckon he did other than just being their figurehead and saying crazy things on videotapes.

Do you understand?

RB says:

05:27pm | 04/05/11

So you have a degree in International crime Kika?Where did you get it, Afghanistan?Pakistan?Judging by your arguments & research ability Osama is better off dead then having you for his lawyer. P.S, you seem to be fairly sympathetic to ol’ Osamas plight.I would say that says a lot about your character(or lack of)

Mouse says:

06:43pm | 04/05/11

Kika, I’m legally trained in law and I do believe a video taped confession would have pretty well ensured a guilty verdict. There have been several tapes of him inciting violence against non Islams and directives to kill the infidels. I’d be pretty damn confident that I would have got a very quick guilty verdict if I was the Prosecutor. You seem pretty stuck on this “beyond a reasonable doubt” , maybe hard to do on TV, but pretty easy to do in real life with evidence like that. The Americans also understand the cost and danger of holding him for trial, which could get dragged out for years.  Lucky they won’t have to find out, isn’t it

Kika says:

02:16pm | 05/05/11

A video taped confession of what? Hating America and the West and everything we stand for? A video taped confession is very ambiguous and shaky as the only evidence you’ve got. Especially against someone who said things just to get on camera for the attention.

You will find 99% of terrorism is not caused by ‘religion’ but by disadvantage, perceived injustice and a lack of education. FACT.

Freeman says:

10:41am | 04/05/11

I can’t beleive just how many of you conspiracy theory nutters there are on this site alone! even when your stupid theories are de-bunked you hold onto them.

TheRealDave says:

10:44am | 04/05/11

Tin Foil is in aisle 3.

NEXT!

Delusional Poster says:

10:52am | 04/05/11

Yes John
your delusion is the one true delusion.
The conspiracies website is over there————————————->

Deano says:

10:59am | 04/05/11

And i can’t believe how much of an idiot you are. Do you have any idea how many people would have to be involved in an operation of that magnitude. And not one of them has talked about it in 10 Years? Really ....not any of the Demolitions guys who thought it was odd that they were rigging up still active buildings for demolition? Really… no one working (many of whom are still alive by the way)at the WTC thought it was weird that the building they were in was being wired up on a massive scale like that. Not everything is a conspiracy.

Jason Todd says:

11:21am | 04/05/11

When Clinton was president, he couldn’t even keep an extramarital affair quiet. You expect me to believe that GW Bush was able to keep a plan to destroy several major targets across the US with explosives a secret?

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes these things seem crazy and inexplicable. However, even though 9/11 was crazy and random, intimating that there was some greater scheme in play without a single lick of evidence helps noone.

Steve says:

11:21am | 04/05/11

John. You are only holding on to that crazy theory because you desperately want it to be true. If you can seperate out that desire for it to be true from the facts and look at the evidence , or indeed lack of it, you will come to the rational conclusion that the planes brought down the buildings.  Also for your own benefit, try and figure out why it is that you want it to be true so badly.

Hamish says:

11:31am | 04/05/11

Judging by the comments on this issue, I guess it’s true what South Park says, about one in four people really are retarded.

yup yup says:

01:06pm | 04/05/11

John,

Most people caNNOT ever comprehend the pure evil that takes place in this world. For those of you that doubt John listen to this one interview from Dr Steve Pieczenik?. If you want an insight as to what goes on in the highest levels of intelligence this is a MUST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjtNiTm99e8

btw
This is the man that Tom Clancy’s novel’s are based on. The character Jack Ryan played by Harrison Ford - ‘Patriot Games”.

TheRealDave says:

05:02pm | 04/05/11

Its funny when you think about it. These Dills think that the US government can pull off something this huge with not a single word leaking out. The same US government that can’t keep…oh lets say the Pat Tilman fiasco or Clintons blowies or Nixons Watergate scandals ertc and coverup out of the public eye….but somehow they can hide aliens at Roswell, fake moon landings and bring down the WTC towers in some giant conspiracy.

Mouse says:

06:50pm | 04/05/11

Yes John, and there was no Holocaust either…

Sam says:

04:49pm | 05/05/11

What a bunch of duds, who said it was Bush or the US government? Think outside the square. Crikey, they try to cover up one lie with another! Have they no shame. Why don’t you guys consider why it is you so desperately want the muslim terrorist angle to be true. It’s because you can’t imagine the shit that’s going down in your own backyard. Aisle 3 was it? Thanks.

Steve says:

04:24pm | 04/05/11

Morgan Freeman

Mouse says:

07:45pm | 04/05/11

Russell Crowe

Max Redlands says:

12:03am | 05/05/11

Eddie Murphy

lol says:

10:34am | 05/05/11

tom cruise

hot tub poltical machine says:

10:53am | 05/05/11

Bill O’Reilly

Kika says:

11:46am | 04/05/11

And how embarassing would that have been for America to put him to trial but could not beyond doubt prove OBL’s involvement in orchestrating 9-11! Aquitted! HA!

Taking out one bacteria cell won’t do anything to stop the virus.

Ron e Coote says:

12:48pm | 04/05/11

A bacterial cell could not be a virus (or part thereof). But hey, as conspiracy theorist you are not bound by the same rules of logical progression that normal folk are. Good luck with that.

LauraBoBaura says:

01:00pm | 04/05/11

Kika - he confessed to being behind 911, several times.. A confession is more than enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Kika says:

02:19pm | 05/05/11

Laura - only AFTER George W already assumed it was him behind the attacks. If you actually know what he said after them, he actually admitted to being surprised by what happened and that the buildings actually fell. Once he found out he was being held responsible for OF COURSE he relished in the opportunity to have crafted such a wonderful crime. He was worse than Peter Beattie for media w&*horing!

I am not a conspiracy theorist! I have a brain and can work out for myself that things are a little too convenient to be reality.

Kika says:

02:21pm | 05/05/11

And Ron, I understand that fully. The virus = Wahabi ideology of jihad Bacteria = Al Qaeda. The ideology spreads like a virus where the organisation runs like bacteria. Duh Fred. Assume what you will.

Mike says:

12:29pm | 04/05/11

Now that’s REALLY getting down to their level!  No way. 

He’s (apparently) now out of the picture, and that’s a GOOD thing.  I personally am not celebrating his death, though I’m glad for it. 

I can understand the Americans celebrating though, because they have suffered the most grief…

If he hadn’t been killed, can you imagine the kidnappings / hostage-taking that would have gone on to force his release.  Even in the unlikely event that he is still alive somewhere, it’s better that everyone believes he’s fish food.

Sam says:

05:04pm | 05/05/11

@Mike, how many dead Americans? how many dead Iraqis and Afghanis? who has suffered more grief again? and what level do you pretend to espouse? and who are you referring to by “their level”? fish food are your thoughts that we are better off believing a lie! and how many sheep have recently learned to use a pc - No way!

Brasil says:

12:38pm | 04/05/11

Got any evidence he was executed? If he’s an enemy combatant, as many seem to be saying here, he’s a fair target unless wounded or actively surrendering.  Most of you here seem to have gleaned your entire knowledge of this sort of operation from Green Left Weekly and reruns of Starsky and Hutch.

Kika says:

01:41pm | 04/05/11

Got any evidence he was killed at all? I don’t even believe they did.

DEAD YEARS AGO!

Jason Todd says:

02:13pm | 04/05/11

I have to say, I am quite interested in this theory he has been dead for years. I had never heard this before. Kika, do you want to lay it out for me?

RickyB says:

05:38pm | 04/05/11

Dont argue with Kika Brasil.She has already told us she swapped two goats & a camel in Pakistan for some sort of degree in crime.Shes an expert in all things Osama.According to Kika, Osama with just your average innocent taxi driver before being framed by the big bad USA. He didnt have anything to do with 9/11.Kika said so…......

Kika says:

02:24pm | 05/05/11

***** Ricky B. How dare you lay those words on me and accuse me of those things. I hate OBL and everything he stood for. However I am not a stupid moron who believes everything spewed down our guts from the media and American government.

I never said he had nothing to do with it. I was merely establishing the point that the Americans would have a really hard time proving beyond reasonable doubt that he had anything to do with it. They had evidence that Mohammed Atta & Co did, but to ping someone who may have influenced them by way of ideology would be hard.

Just as the Indonesian government is finding it tough to pin down Abu Bakr Bashir the Americans would have that x 1000 with OBL. Get it?

Kika says:

02:27pm | 05/05/11

And Ricky I have a degree in Justice Policy with a high distinction in Transnational Crime in Brisbane. I studied the LTTE as my final paper so I think I have a better idea of how this all works than you my friend. Sorry.

Kika says:

02:36pm | 05/05/11

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20060927/bin_laden_death_060927/

Here’s just a snapshot of all the theories around the health status of OBL for many years.

All I can say is that it’s just far too convenient for the Americans to say ‘they’ killed him (so let’s go home to save some cash) instead of declaring him dead of natural causes.

Richy says:

12:02pm | 04/05/11

They should have cut Osama’s head off, stuck it on a spike, and mailed it back to the Middle East.

Brasil says:

12:28pm | 04/05/11

Evidence? Oh you have none? What a surprise!

TCB 24 X 7 says:

02:14pm | 04/05/11

Exactly Brasil,
you cannot discount the possibility of what i have said.
any scenario to his body could of happened,  i suspect we will know of the truth in the near future.

Mouse says:

08:02pm | 04/05/11

or they didn’t kill him and he is being held in a dark room in the base of the pentagon or Camp David

TCB 24 X 7 says:

09:35pm | 04/05/11

mouse,
osama is dead , i dont think they gave him a ceremonial burial, do you.

Tony says:

12:27pm | 04/05/11

Yeh, of course. There are so many better countries to carry out the policeman role aren’t there like, like, like, .......well, you know, there just must be.

Personally I think that juveniles who refuse to grow up and accept that the world is a nasty place that needs strong police like the US suck. And by the way, they just demonstrated they are anything but ‘losers’!

John says:

11:54pm | 04/05/11

All the ppl callin for no world police just remember Rwanda. How many ppl said “Why the world stood by as genocide occured” or how about Serbia. If it wasnt for the world police US then NATO and the UN will still be debating it now.

Funny thing is in the Ivory Coast a mass killing of Christians fleeing the fighting has occured but only got a brief note on the news. What is the UN doing bout this?

Hamish says:

12:32pm | 04/05/11

The UN way to handle this would have been to censure Israel, give Osama a seat in the General Assembly and then elect him chair of the Human Rights Commission.

LauraBoBaura says:

12:45pm | 04/05/11

Melissa - Do you really think that revenge attacks wouldn’t have happened if OBL was trialed, and then executed, instead of just executed? No matter which way this went down, Al Queda were going to be upset, do you really think they’re concerned with the rule of law?

LauraBoBaura says:

12:46pm | 04/05/11

Melissa - Do you really think that revenge attacks wouldn’t have happened if OBL was trialed, and then executed, instead of just executed? No matter which way this went down, Al Queda were going to be upset, do you really think they’re concerned with the rule of law?

Chris says:

02:25pm | 04/05/11

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, but when you give us freedom fighters like Ghandi, we’ll give you presidents like Jimmy Carter.  Clear?

Ron E Coote says:

12:51pm | 04/05/11

!!!!!
(Walking away from the crazy person very, very slowly)

Danny B says:

03:48pm | 04/05/11

Mark,
I can see your point - Hollywood will make something out of this.  It already sounds to me like something out of a Tom Clancy novel.

My suggestion for a title:
‘Best served cold’

I believe that’s what they say about revenge…

TheRealDave says:

05:19pm | 04/05/11

When you never have to see the results, with your own eyes, of what these arseholes do or never have the odd angry shot thrown your way its very easy to sit back at the Coffee Club with your laptop to call for ‘due process’ and criticise the professional soldiers, and sailors as the case may be, actually involved.

Pete says:

01:23pm | 04/05/11

On a risk assessment basis I would say your hypothisis has a small probability of being correct. Think of it this way,  there is a view that the public don’t think you are decisive and the risk is you will loose an election. So, so by way of proving you are decisive you decide to fabricate a very elaborate story by undertaking an incursion into foreign soverign nation with crack troops and take out a non existant world renowned terrorist making sure that everyone kept to the story and never told a soul, Yes your right no risk in that!

Jason Todd says:

02:31pm | 04/05/11

Hh. Interesting theory. Look, that may well be the case and they intimated that they had buried the body at sea to prevent reprisals for disrespecting the body.

However, using a bomb would have been impractical. Initial plans using stealth bombers were ignored due to the requirement to have proof of death. The whole operation was filmed anyway.

Bottom line, there is always going to be a subset of people who will doubt the official story, no matter what happens.

Kika says:

01:37pm | 04/05/11

And what do you call the Allied Forces who have helped America in Afghanistan and Iraq? Pork chops?

Mike says:

01:57pm | 04/05/11

Agreed 100%
Embarrassed to be an Australian after reading some of the namby-pamby, back seat driver, critisism here.
Osama was scum. He was treated appropriately
I still remember images of innocent people jumping to their deaths from the twin towers.
Australians have a severe inferiority complex (rightly so) and we look to find fault in the greater powers such as the US whenever possible.
Pathetic…......

Sam says:

05:18pm | 05/05/11

@Mike, no Australians do not have an inferiority complex, we have an inbuilt BS meter. I believe this is an opportune time to tell you to go back where you came from (because that sounds about your level).

RickyB says:

05:47pm | 04/05/11

He was a grub & a coward who fought from the shadows & killed innocents from afar.He deserves no respect & i am only sorry they didnt hang him from the statue of liberty as a warning to other cowardly islamist grubs.

Bruno says:

07:39am | 05/05/11

Its been centuries since leaders led the charge. I didn’t see Obama in the compound I saw him in a white house bunker. Yeah of course his orders don’t lead to the deaths of innocents. I think in your opinion it depends on whose innocents, they’re all fair game right. They’re very scary people.

P. Darvio says:

01:50pm | 04/05/11

Oh No - Osama Fin Laden…....(about 9min 20 sec minutes in)

http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/mon-may-2-2011-francis-fukuyama

joshua says:

02:21pm | 04/05/11

why dont we just kill everyone that we suspect of doing something against our way of life without a trial….. oh wait that would make us Iraq under their former leader.  No… we have due process in our countries for a reason. No one person should be judge jury and excecutioner. It was an appauling display of justice.

Syl says:

04:32pm | 04/05/11

Joshua

We dont suspect him of organising terrorist acts, he has openly admitted (hell bragged about it) on numerous occassions.

May I ask why you are so concerned about the lack of judicial process in the killing of Osama, but do not seem concerned with the killing of the other enemy soldiers in the compound?  Should the allied troops try to arrest them all why they are firing AK-47’s at them?  I highly doubt they were as guilty of acting in and organising terrorist acts as Osama yet this doesn’t seem to bother you?

Ben81 says:

02:15pm | 04/05/11

“I have watched a lot of conspiracy theory shows about 9/11 and they make sense”

Well there’s your problem.

Steve says:

02:20pm | 04/05/11

@Echo. What exactly are you suggesting happened in Pearl harbour. That it was arranged between japan and USA or that USA had advanced warning which they chose to ignore. Could it not be something boring like the carrier groups were on manouvers when the Japanese struck? I think there can be some fun to be had with wold theories but not to be taken seriously. Is there any conspiracy theory that you do not subscribe to? If so please name it

Shane says:

03:19pm | 04/05/11

Echo, I watched the second plane fly into the south tower. And then I see some brainless whackjob like you sit here on the net and claim there was no plane, that it was all made up. You try to turn the deaths of thousands of innocent people into some kind of political point scoring quest. You’re not just a complete idiot, you’re a morally bankrupt cockroach who desperately needs a good smack in the head.

ECHO says:

03:38pm | 04/05/11

@ SHANE - yeah I watched it happen also, what of it? how can I be morally bankrupt when I am not saying the tragedy didn’t happen and that thousands didn’t die all I am saying is we don’t have the whole story, there are so many holes in the governments version, the towers fell too cleanly. You’re entitled to your opinion but then again so am I, just because mine differs from yours doesn’t make it wrong or immoral, I just happen to question everything I am told and look for every possibility

Shane says:

04:02pm | 04/05/11

Echo, a quote from your post.

“the holes in the towers and the pentagon were not big enough for a jet to have hit them and there were no remains of aircraft at the scenes.”

How do you possibly reconcile this statement with the fact that a plane actually did hit the tower? In this case Echo, you are 100% flat out wrong. Or are you just making this up as you go so that you can continue your bizzaro take on the events of that day?

Shane says:

04:02pm | 04/05/11

Echo, a quote from your post.

“the holes in the towers and the pentagon were not big enough for a jet to have hit them and there were no remains of aircraft at the scenes.”

How do you possibly reconcile this statement with the fact that a plane actually did hit the tower? In this case Echo, you are 100% flat out wrong. Or are you just making this up as you go so that you can continue your bizzaro take on the events of that day?

ECHO says:

04:59pm | 04/05/11

@SHANE - I never said it wasn’t a plane, just wasn’t a jumbo jet, the footage of what hit the towers had no markings of any of the airlines so it could have been an unmanned drone, considering the wing span of most jumbo jets the holes were too small for it to have been one of the planes they claim it was.

Shane says:

05:29pm | 04/05/11

Echo, seeing as your opinion is based on selective viewing of low res amateur video, I’ll try to make this easy for you. There’s footage from several different angles of the second plane hitting the south tower. One of the angles footage was taken from was almost a 90 degree angle to the right of the plane. If you pause this just before the plane hits the tower you can CLEARLY see the distinctive blue tail with the logo of United Airlines. Footage from other angles may not show it as well.

James says:

05:34pm | 04/05/11

@Echo
If as you say it was an unmanned drone, how do you account for the families of all of the people who were on the plane? Are they just making all of this up? And where on earth have you got the idea that there was no wreckage from the planes? There are photos of wreckage both at the pentagon and in the rubble from the twin towers, just google it. The only way the 9/11 conspiracy theories make any sense is if you totally suspend your belief in reason, objectivity and common-sense. You have obviously given up on these traits long ago.

Steve says:

05:55pm | 04/05/11

That vision that shows the United badging might have been put together by the same studio who shot the fake moon landing vision. I know for a fact that studio also faked the space shuttle blowing up to cover up that they were abducted by aliens.

lol says:

11:04am | 05/05/11

Hey echo/whacko whatever… I’ve seen those shows too, I want you to do some basic analysis for your own benefit and piece of mind.

F=ma

go and multiply the mass of a 75tonne aircraft impacting the tower and the deceleration of that object from 200m/s in less than a 5th of a second. then come back here and post the results in meganewtons. Run some cross analysis on similar events which create an equal amount of force and then consider the physical implications of that force directed in a straight line compounded by explosive volatiles in the reaction.

then write a letter to the original construction firm of the WTC towers and applaud them for their handiwork in keeping those monoliths up long enough to allow the lucky who survived to escape.

then go and buy a book of clues.  you’ve been chumped and you’re sources have terrible fappy music and narration.

Syl says:

04:34pm | 04/05/11

I have some magic beans for you.  The bidding starts at $5000.  You better get in quick because Elvis is bidding too, and he LOVES baked beans.

Steve says:

03:18pm | 04/05/11

Echo. The US was already selling arms to the English. In fact it was only within the last year or so that the final payment was made to clear the debt for WW2 arms. Just like WW1 the US were trying their best to stay out of it. Whilst Pearl harbour brought them in earlier than they may have wanted it doesn’t mean that they looked away and let the attack happen. The reason conspiracy theories work is because you can find a whiff of truth or convenience but they don’t stack up on the balance of probabilities. Had they known the attack was iminent why not beat it off decisively? You have still been attacked and can fully engage in the war but a decisive counter attack against the japanese carrier group would have made the war easier.

Illusion says:

03:30pm | 04/05/11

Echo is right. In fact, this is now declassified information.

ECHO says:

03:39pm | 04/05/11

@steve - Wouldn’t have had the same impact if they defended and sent the Japanese back before they hit, unfortunately you need lives lost to motivate the public to get behind military actions of that magnitude.

Ryan says:

04:28pm | 04/05/11

Pity they didn’t make him suffer like the 3000 odd people in the world trade center had to endure before death.

Darren says:

04:35pm | 04/05/11

Marilyn do you seriously believe that the symbolic leader of the al-Qaeda organisation and the most wanted man in the world was just chillin at home with the wife and kids watching Master Chief Pakistan, when mean and nasty 2 SEAL Teams came in and gunned down the happy family group in cold blood.  You don’t think he kind of maybe been guarded by a few dozen real hard core Jihadists who would gladly die rather than let him be taken or killed?

Please tell me you’re not that naive, please.

As a women perhaps you might want to do a little research on what it was like in Afghanistan for women during their rule before you share your wisdom with us.

The blind ignorance and stupidity of those who automatically oppose everything the Americans do is mind boggling.

Peter says:

06:56pm | 04/05/11

Go easy on Marilyn folks she’s in mourning one of her heros

Andrew says:

09:38pm | 04/05/11

Maybe its so we can stop the taliban from murdering afganistans who dont agree with them, maybe its so woman can actually get an education, so they can walk around without the company of a man, maybe so when they report a rape they dont need 4 guys to back up there stories, maybe so when they report a rape they dont get stoned to death for being promisicus. But what would I know after all your the one that cares so much about afganistan woman.

Max Redlands says:

12:30am | 05/05/11

They should have captured him and locked him in a room with Marilyn.

iansand says:

04:52pm | 04/05/11

I read somewhere that he was always regarded as dangerous while he was wearing clothes.  They were afraid of a concealed bomb.  Not an unreasonable fear.

Mattb says:

07:29pm | 04/05/11

Are you serious Ray, America, in retaliation to 9/11, attacked both afganistan and Iraq, countless thousands of inocent women and children have been killed in these two countries due to this decision. What if these were your children, your sister, Your brother, your wife?. All in an attempt to get a man that has been hiding in Pakistan. Think about that while your taping away on your keyboard and sipping your latte’ in your office. Wake up and smell your hypocritical ignorance….

Andrew says:

09:42pm | 04/05/11

Yeah Mattb, of course Saddam and the taliban werent killing anyone and wouldnt have went on killing everyone. You do also realise that many of the dead in iraq werent killed by americans.

lol says:

11:22am | 05/05/11

saddam was universally hated. bin laden still has whacked out disaffected stooges who think he’s the second coming and hate the world enough to kill their mothers.

sirgaz’007’ you’d make a crappy secret agent.

yup yup says:

06:42pm | 04/05/11

@ Jason Todd,

Osama Bin Laden had Marfan Syndrome.
This was widely known.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/23/osama-bin-laden-is-dead/

The link I posted below was meant to be in response to your post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjtNiTm99e8

Septimus says:

08:54pm | 04/05/11

Right!

The only ones who don’t believe that he is dead are the nutbags and the media are the only ones playing on it.  The rest of us believe he is dead and don’t really care what he looks like.

Nick says:

09:19pm | 04/05/11

#2 is my guess why all the conspiracy theorists are getting so much air time in the mainstream media too…they’re already doing it Zedimus…nothing like a corpse for bringing in the punters I guess

karen says:

01:43pm | 05/05/11

Sometime people are just to evil to deserve legal process.  How about you watch the death footage of those planes crashing into those towers and then the towers crashing to the earth….you might even see those desperate people jumping out of the buildings to their death. That’s death you’re watching at the hands of Osama Bin Laden……….so what if he was un-armed…so what if the US killed him.  So what if he was executed.  Your right in that the whole world doesn’t revolve around the US but it sure as hell is revolving around terrorism and like it or not SOMEONE has to step up to the plate and do the dirty work for those who know it must be done and for those like yourself that find it distasteful.

Dubya says:

12:07am | 05/05/11

You what makes me laugh reading posts like Nick’s is that it’s written with such obvious sincerity that it’s just sad (and slightly insane btw).

The thing that conspiracy nuts just don’t get is that governments leak likes sieves, it may take time but secrets always get out, always.  The sheer volume of people that would be required to be “in the know” and be keeping silent is just preposterous and is as nutty as the theories themselves. 

Oh by the way Nick we know where you live and are coming for you so our secret remains safe.

Septimus says:

07:15am | 05/05/11

“But do you people honestly believe Osama bin Laden was responsible for September 11 because the US government told you so?”

Yes.

Septimus says:

07:30am | 05/05/11

Jean Charles de Menezes was a suspected suicide bomber.

Would I prefer he be shot in these circumstances, rather than risk the lives of dozens of other people?

Most definitely YES!

John says:

10:18am | 05/05/11

Nick Buick, another piece of evidence that explosives were going in the WTC buildings. Were the American civilians that fell off the towers. If anyone was in that situation, they would of never though the buildings would collapse, why would they commit suicide? What i think happen because of all the smoke, they moved near the windows to get air, then explosions went off created a vacuum and pushed them out of windows. I seen a clip where you see a light going off, then hear the explosion 1 second later(because the camera was about 2km away. Next thing you know something goes flying down the towers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8g_FECab9o&feature=related

Watch at 0:25 (hear and explosion) then seem something going down the towers. Then and at 0:44 - 45 You can see and hear and two explosion in the middle of the tower.

Septimus says:

10:59am | 05/05/11

Because they were in danger of being burnt to death John.  Some people choose the lesser of painful deaths.

Nick Buick says:

12:18pm | 05/05/11

“Jean Charles de Menezes was a suspected suicide bomber. Would I prefer he be shot in these circumstances, rather than risk the lives of dozens of other people? Most definitely YES!”

But he wasn’t a suicide bomber… he was a perfectly innocent guy catching a bus and train to work like you or me. He was unarmed, he was physically pinned down by police, unable to move, no threat to anyone, when a force of anonymous special agents walked up and put 6 rounds into his skull at point blank range… and that’s the OFFICIAL story - it’s not even a conspiracy… it’s a fact. what the hell did that guy know? Why was he targeted and assassinated? We’ll never know. What did OBL know? Why was he targeted and assassinated? We’ll never know.

You don’t think secretive government bodies like MOSAD and the CIA are engaged in criminal activity? They caught a bunch of MOSAD operatives stealing Australian identities just a few months ago for god-knows-what purpose… You think questioning a government that assassinates unarmed people is ‘sad and slightly insane’? My god - I really am living in 1984.

Nick Buick says:

12:59pm | 05/05/11

Yeah that’s a good point. But that still doesn’t explain why the body was dumped so quickly and so absolutely… that’s the one detail that really makes this seem very sinister to me. The *KNEW* dumping the body would arouse suspicion (not enough, clearly, looking at these posts above) but they went ahead and did it anyway… why?

John says:

02:07pm | 05/05/11

1,690,903 caused by muslim vs muslim violence. Shite vs Sunni and this was not creates by the USA but has been going on for centuries. Even in the days were Islam was the main power, each side tried to convert thr other. Do you think a Sunni Iran wants a Shite Iraq, no they dont thats why they are arming them but using the excuse that they are fighting the USA.

Hey Micheal you fogot to add Bali bombing, Mumbai attacks, terrorist attacks in Kashmir, 1947 Partation of India when the muslim brotherhood vowed to cleanse Pakistan of all non muslims, Somalia (20+ Pakistan UN soldiers killed), Ivory Coast, Phillipeans, Indonesia, East Timor, Sudan, Africa and other countries. India alone can account for the total of your figure above.

Lee says:

07:01am | 06/05/11

Who here is defending him? I think most people are defending how we, as democratic countries, insist clearly on having a double standard. This is just another example in a long line of examples which I am sure will grow longer before my time is up.

Mouse says:

05:31pm | 05/05/11

I suppose the difference Andrew, is that the Americans were celebrating OBL’s death and the Al-Queda ones were celebrating the death of thousands of innocent civillians. Just saying…

Chris says:

12:34pm | 05/05/11

Well said David. Western double standards and hypocrisy disgust me.

joshua says:

12:57pm | 05/05/11

we are only told what the american intelligence tells us! There was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - we must bomb and invade them,  communism is going to take over the world - we need to annihalate vietnam,  a nuclear bomb killing 200,000 innocent civilians in the only way to stop WW2,  - Americans have a history of acting on emotion and finger pointing without all the facts.  All this article is saying is that he should have been made stand trial and his guilt proven - not just suspected, and publised by our pro american media.

John says:

01:52pm | 05/05/11

Johua do you know how many numbers would of been lost on both sides if the USA invaded Japan in WW2. Ill bet you it would be more then 200,000. The Americans did thier research and found that the loses would of been over one million Japanese killed. You do realise Japan was preparing thier citizens to fight the Americans if invaded. How many would of died then Joshua?

Joshua says:

04:26pm | 05/05/11

oh, the old ends justifys the means theory - so if Osama bin Ladens attack on the US was to cause huge fear in America and stop them invading other countries because they have a conflicting government or foreign policy - and it achieved that….. would you say that the attack was justified?  If you say no to this, you have just argued against your own argument and state that, means are only ok when they agree with what you believe the ends should be, not others.  Do I know how many people died in WW2 - of course, I was an officer in the Australian Defence force for 11 years.  Your figures are unjustfiable and state that it is ok to kill innocent people to achieve a mission…alas this is not the case, and I will not serve in any country that believes this - and ours does not.

Chris says:

12:27pm | 05/05/11

Just maybe THEY think “how valuable is NY and London” Similar religious/racist thought pattern to yours.

Chris says:

12:42pm | 05/05/11

Like America’s response to the attack on the USS Liberty and the murder of 34 US sailors. We know who controls the US and provokes your recent wars but you are blind to why the US is despised by much of the world..

SealTeam says:

02:43pm | 05/05/11

Too right Slack

We would like to invite Tori to present herself to our Seal Team who took out OBL.  You can teach us how to go about our next mission, as you know best how to win the hearts and minds already. Then you could write a column about our next mission to show the world it wasn’t done in such a stereotypically “chip on the shoulder” gung ho napoleon complex Australian journalist way, I mean gun ho American way.

Jason Todd says:

03:55pm | 05/05/11

The balloon boy story relied on one person keeping a secret. The boy himself. Budget or no budget, the number of people that would have to be in on any conspiracy of this magnitude would mean that there would be a leak somewhere. If you were in on it, what would stop you from going to the press and selling the whole sordid story for millions.
Look at the genuine scandals that have come out of the US government: Watergate, the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal. If you can’t get a handful of people to keep their mouths shut over something relatively minor, how are you going to force dozens to clam up over something massive?

I don’t believe everything I read and try to keep an open mind, but not so much that my brain falls out.

Septimus says:

05:38pm | 05/05/11

Yes it is!