Tackling home-grown Aussie terrorism

TChong says:

07:10am | 06/04/11

Eckka- how many refugees / asylum seekers have been charged, faced courts , convicted , in Oz?
Lots ? some ? any? or none?
Tarring all with the same brush, specially with something as serios as treason and terrorism is pretty poor form.
Keep the debate away from the dawg whistlers Eck, otherwise the ignorant racist / theocracy based hate , becomes the issue.

John A Neve says:

07:19am | 06/04/11

Erick,

How do you see this redicalisation as being different to that caused in this country by the major parties?
On reading many of the posts on this site it would seem many have “been radicalised by (political) ideology”.

Erick says:

08:19am | 06/04/11

@TChong - I didn’t even mention refugees or asylum seekers. My concern is with Islam, which is the prime source of home-grown terrorism in the world today.

@John A Neve - The difference is that Islamic radicalisation tends to lead people to acts of extreme violence.

John A Neve says:

08:41am | 06/04/11

Erick,

Doesn’t any form of “radicalisation” lead to “acts of extreme violence”?

The protests we have seen in the last few weeks, be it for or against the proposed carbon tax, were bordering on extreme were they not?

Tony of Poorakistan says:

08:54am | 06/04/11

I agree with Erick - if you don’t let those communities in, you won’t have a problem. 
 
We appear to be creating the problem by opening our doors and then spending taxpayers’ money appeasing these pricks so they don’t blow us up. 
 
It is stupid.

johnny lib says:

09:16am | 06/04/11

@Erick, Nice one,the expose of these two fools is not necessary as they are more then capable of breathtaking hypocrisy and stupidity in there own right,non the less,well done

Ryan says:

09:34am | 06/04/11

A simple solution is ban Islam since it is clear that there is only one type of Islam as specified in the Koran and that one type of Islam has shown its true colours. If you want to practice a religion of cowardice and terror then don’t immigrate here.

TChong says:

09:40am | 06/04/11

dawg whistled, and heres johnny Lib.
Well done.A pat on the head for johnny.
Good boy, johnnny- now go fetch.

Go Whistle says:

10:04am | 06/04/11

Good morning Chongy,Libs love Kevin,do you think you could call him and see if he will run again and if so can I have another $1000,they can add it to the carbon tax and the public will never be the wiser. lol

TChong says:

10:27am | 06/04/11

dont know Go Whistle, but I’m sure you can ask yourself.
Besides why let that distract you, when you can join johnny lib in fetching Frisbees.?

darragh scully says:

11:28am | 06/04/11

Australia is probably one of the most Isolated Nations in the world as it is.

“At present, the greatest terrorist threat to Australia and Australian interests comes from people who follow a distorted and militant interpretation of Islam that calls for violence as the answer to perceived grievances.”

I think the SAS commando who fought the secret war in Oman, described the dillema the best I have ever heard. They looked at the problem mathematically. Take one potential jihadis give him a good reason to follow a higher path which is lesser of two evils and you have a plus 2 situation because not only are you getting one more to your cause but your denying the Terrorist Organisation of its support base which is a -1 for them.

Our country Australia have a hitory of Racial Hatred. I believe it is the result of the Imperial Ambitions of the Brittish Empire, something that the UK has abondoned. Australia has also abandoned the White Australia Policy and I believe there are Laws that forbid the application of policys or plans that are Discriminatory on the basis of Religion. I believe that the Globlal trend to abondon such policies is also apparent in the Muslim world whom also had a pretty extensive empire at times in History. If this were not the case given the large volumes Globally of both Christians and Muslims we would be in the Grip of a full scale open war. And Australia would suffer substantially. We would have difficulty alone containing Malysia never mind living next door to Indonesia with the most substantial Muslim population in the world.

You might be suprised to know that the USA has an official list of Terror Organisations. On this official list you will find predominantly Muslim Millitant Groups, such as HAMAS. It is rare once registered on this list to be removed from it, very rare. What I found interesting about the list is that in Northern Ireland not only was the IRAs two terrorist groups, RIRA and PIRA, listed but also the the groups on the other side of the divide in the Protestant Division. I found that they were not listed on Australias list though they were listed in the UK’s list. So it didnt supprise me when Combat 18 members appeared to be active in Western Australia and had been attacking vulnerable members of our community. Yet to break this down a bit how do you feel about the double standards in Immigration figures. A migrant is more than likely to come from the UK. As far as I am aware and I am not sure if this has been changed though when it comes to Work Related Visas UK citizens are allowed a VISA for two years where as everyone else only one year. Now look at successful global terror attacks in general and you see a trend of clean skins out of the UK. So its complicated. If you ask me thats a potential -6 for Australia. You have the extremist protestant, catholic and muslims from the UK with easy access to Australia.

TimB says:

11:28am | 06/04/11

“The protests we have seen in the last few weeks, be it for or against the proposed carbon tax, were bordering on extreme were they not?”

No they weren’t John. I don’t recall hearing about any incidents of violence at those protests, do you? Of course if you disagree, I’m sure you can provide links to articles. Maybe a police report. Some sort of facts to back up your claim….

...right?

darragh scully says:

11:28am | 06/04/11

In the midst of all this is a much bigger problem. The battle for Global Domination and Peak Resources with the problem of Nuclear Deterenace and the subsequent use of subversive tactics that cause wars by Proxy so that when the nation with resources is weakened it can easily be captured and its resources captured. For example in Oman you had the Communists trying to capture the middle east so it could control the worlds largest supply of oil while the Vietnam war was raging. They by proxy turned the muslims against each other and christians and then eventually started exterminating people just for believing in God. Also a similar situation exists in Pakistan where the ISI the Pakistani equivilent of the CIA secretly support Terrorism. Much of the terrorism involves stealing, drug dealing and violence and corruption.

The good news is that we are getting better at detecting it all. Take for example the Cepheid. Back in 9/11 there was a Antrhax attack by the same group who attacked New York, evidenced by the fact that they infected themselves and sought treatment for it and the subsequent attacks through the mail system. One such incient was when Jim Scully had a suspect attack on his plane with an unkown white powder that took weeks to get tested. Now thanks to Marlan Scully and a brilliant team of other physicists and medical professionals we can test it in an hour. Then we have the new scanners just released through
Smiths Technology such as the hand held detctor The SPECTRE 4000. Then there are new techniques that use lasers at low powers that can do stand of detection at 15 metres using technology from Oceans Spectro which is soon to go hand held and will save lives. Then there are bacteria species being developed that will make various explosives flouresce which are aimed at mapping mine fields in place like Afghanistan, the most minded nation in the world.

The theme being obvious here. Its not about reducing freedoms, and as Murphys law states, if you make it hard for the enemy to get in its hard for you to get out. The theme is about making a better world in that people have more freedom. Being religious freedom, political freedom and so on and so forth.    Its only a shame that we havent been able to get the right people on the negotiation table at the conflict management stage that we are in the situation we are in now. So if you dont mind take your Facist Ideology for a walk in the streets of Baghdad or any other part of the world fucked in the ass by War and see if it doesnt change your mind. 

Here is some daily trivia for you all.
The 69th infantry are an american infantry unit of the US national guard who were the pivotal unit at the turning point of the American Civil War. They were there at ground zero and they were deployed to what is now known as route irish, the most dangerous road in the world. You will have to drive route irish to get to the Green Zone, happy travels.

John A Neve says:

11:58am | 06/04/11

TimB,

Don’t you ever read? Just where in my post did I mention violence?
Calm down, you rag is beginning to show.

TimB says:

12:45pm | 06/04/11

Yes John I can read. Can you?

“John A Neve says:08:41am | 06/04/11

Erick,

Doesn’t any form of “radicalisation” lead to “acts of extreme violence”?

The protests we have seen in the last few weeks, be it for or against the proposed carbon tax, were bordering on extreme were they not? “

Nice and bold for you.

John A Neve says:

01:26pm | 06/04/11

TimB,

For your benefit, the first part was a question (?), not a statement.

Where you quoted me @ 11:28 there is no mention of “violence”, sadly I find you deceit very sad. But then deceit is the name of your game isn’t TimB?

Ricky says:

02:33pm | 06/04/11

Spot on Eric, i couldnt agree more.And John A Neve, are you seriously comparing Australias political parties & ideologies with Extreme Islamic Terrorism?Idiot.

TimB says:

03:29pm | 06/04/11

John you explicitly linked the first part with the second part. You speak of radicaliaztion and etreme violence. You then move onto the proposition that the carbon tax rallies were “extreme” Your implication is clear. Do not try to pretend these sentences were unrelated.
The fact that no such violence has occurred shows your comparison to be incorrect and flawed. And once again, your penchant for cowardice comes to the fore when you try be disingenious & deny what you were saying.

Pro-tip: Getting called on your bullcrap might be embrarrasing for you, but it’s even *more* embarrasing when you try to backpedal like this instead of just admitting defeat gracefully. Not a good look.

John A Neve says:

04:09pm | 06/04/11

Ricky,

In answer to your question; No.
What I asked, please read my post again,“How do you see this radicalisation as being different”?
A simple question I would have thought.

John A Neve says:

04:18pm | 06/04/11

TimB,
If you read the posts again,the first part is a direct quote of Erick’s @
08:19, added to which, your quote of mine @ 11:28 does not mention “violence”. So please don’t distort the truth, I am getting sick of your lies.

me my mo says:

05:13pm | 06/04/11

“If you read the posts again,the first part is a direct quote of Erick’s @
08:19”

Hahahahahaha. Not quite.

Erick (states) “@John A Neve - The difference is that Islamic radicalisation tends to lead people to acts of extreme violence.”

John (replies in the form of a rhetorical question) “Doesn’t any form of “radicalisation” lead to “acts of extreme violence”?”

TimB says:

06:51pm | 06/04/11

It’s not a lie John, as Me My Mo has so adequately proven. Your intent was clear. You did not quote Erick at all. You rephrased his statement to make try and make a point of your own.

That point being, the deliberate insinuation in your post that you considered the Carbon tax rallies to be a form of extremism. I called you on it and now, in your usual gutless fashion you are backpedalling as far as you can go.

If one had nothing to do with the other then what was the point? Why write it at all? Do you expect us to believe it was just a random sentence? Don’t be ridiculous.

You are a coward.

Col. of Blackburn says:

07:30pm | 06/04/11

@TChong
I spent a lot of my adult life living in Springvale in Melbourne. There is a large Indo-Chinese population there and a large Buddhist Temple. In all the time that I lived there, I never once read in the local paper that the Head Monk described the local girls as ‘Fresh Meat’ or that the congregation should wage war against the local non-buddhist population!

Rob M says:

09:20pm | 06/04/11

As usual, the anti-Islam bleeding brains have done no research and wish to clog up the public discourse with their glib two-liners and sophisms. And as usual, they have zero evidence, zero logic, zero credibility - just a gutful of bile and a propensity to label anybody who disagrees with them as weak Islamic apologist or a naïve bleeding heart.

According to the superficial, intellectually moribund conservative lobby, the major terrorist threat to Australia comes from a cabal of the Islamic intelligentsia, who are indoctrinated to-a-man to blindly follow a radical practice of Bedouin Islam that precludes individual thought and compassion (because THEY’VE BEEN BRAINWASHED).

You can’t ask them to qualify these accusations, because they base their wild conjecture on personal prejudice, a complete lack of independent research, and utterly flawed logic. The Koran endorses violence, all muslims follow the Koran verbatim, quod erat demonstrandum: all muslims are violent jihadists. There’s no room for shades of grey - either you are with us, or you are muslim.

I have no love for Islam, and I personally think that its inherent repression of women is unacceptable. But the truth is that benighted stupidity is far more dangerous to Australia, especially where it tries to bring totally useless “simple” solutions to complicated situations.

Erick says:

05:12am | 07/04/11

RobM, your entire comment consists of personal attacks on those with whom you disagree, and is therefore pointless.

John A Neve says:

05:33am | 07/04/11

TimB,
My point to any one but a fool, was to get Erick to clarify his position.
You expect others to answer questions, but you continually duck and weave.

TimB says:

08:19am | 07/04/11

John you don’t fool anyone.

Erick didn’t comment on the carbon tax. YOU did. You brought it up, in the context of extremism, even though it wasn’t even part of this debate.

You’re the one that asked the loaded question that referred to the rallies as “extreme”. If you thought otherwise, you wouldn’t have brought it up at all. Your implication is clear to anyone. Your constant lying denials are laughably transparent.

And what questions have I been asked? I will answer any questions regarding points I wish to prove. What I won’t do is answer any questions where you want me or anyone else to do your research for you.
If you’ve got a point to prove, then do so, don’t expect us to do the work for you.

Levi says:

08:54am | 06/04/11

Right so you think Australian Muslims born in Autralia have chosen sides in a war? And what war would that be? A war against freedom of democracy, free speech and prosperity? All things that these sick little dogs hate about us. Erick is right, you need to nip the problem in the bud, and the bud is very easily identified in this case, muslim immigration.

John A Neve says:

09:34am | 06/04/11

Levi,

Did you read what I posted?  More importantly, did you comprehend?

Sadly, I fail to see how your post addresses mine, please explain?

L. says:

11:00am | 06/04/11

“Right so you think Australian Muslims born in Autralia have chosen sides in a war?”

Clearly some have.

Tom says:

12:47pm | 06/04/11

@John A Neve, you keep on claiming that others are misreading you. Are you just trying to jerk us all off or could you try making your comments a bit clearer.

John A Neve says:

01:33pm | 06/04/11

Tom,

I don’t know how clear you want it?

You tell me Tom, how Levi’s post responds to mine?

Just where have I mentioned “muslims”, “freedom”,“democracy”“free speech” or “prosperity”?

I believe what I have said is very clear.

Cuppa says:

02:41pm | 06/04/11

Tom, John cant make it any clearer.He only speaks d*ckhead.But he speaks it fluently. 

Syl says:

05:38pm | 06/04/11

“Surely terrorism is no different to any war?”

Terrorism is generally the targeting of innocent civilians to create fear to push forward an idea (political, religious, whatever)

War is a conflict between two opposing, armed sides.

They are VERY different.

Tom says:

06:05pm | 06/04/11

@John A Neve,  “The question we must all ask is, why did we become involved?”
1. You first John (oh deep oracle). Let’s hear your answer to that question.
2. Then you might honour us with another considered answer on why is asking that question going to change anything.
3. Then let us mortals hear how best we can put your utterances into practice.

Otherwise stop talking utter gibberish.

John A Neve says:

07:28pm | 06/04/11

Sly,
Firstly I do not know how you differentiate between an “innocent civilians” and civilians?
But putting that to one side, tell me a war where civilians have not been killed?

John A Neve says:

07:33pm | 06/04/11

Tom,
What a cop out, you allowed young Australians to go to war and you don’t know why?

Syl says:

09:43am | 07/04/11

Wow John, is your argument really so weak as to rely on semantics, replace innocent civilians with civilians if you like, it means the same thing ffs.

There is a difference between civilian casualties during wartime and deliberately targeting civilians to create fear, while ignoring military targets.  The fact that you are unable to make this distinction is a little dumbfounding to be honest.

Levi says:

08:56am | 06/04/11

Ridiculous isnt it? This is what multiculturalism has gifted to us.

RickyB says:

02:48pm | 06/04/11

Thats right L. , another great result of the great failed multicultural experiment.As long as we keep importing failed, third world cultures we will continue having these problems.

L. says:

07:58am | 06/04/11

“Bali isn’t in Australia, so why call it home-grown terrorism?”

For the same reason he included Madrid, London and the Indon embassy bombing… The numbers won’t look as dramatic if he didn’t.

PJ says:

08:29am | 06/04/11

‘...but highlighted the possibility of an attack at home. ’

richo says:

08:45am | 06/04/11

No PJ I’m talking about this quote,  “The 2002 and 2005 Bali bombings and the attack on our embassy in Jakarta in 2004 served as a stark reminder that Australia faces real terror threats. “

Yes it was our embassy, but it was in Indonesia. Yes some Australian’s tragically died in Bali, but more Indonesians have died as a result of terrorism then Australians.

Australians in Indonesia face real threats would have been a more apt thing to say.

Joan says:

08:15am | 06/04/11

Absolutely correct Jade…. some hatreds are ancient ones passed down by families to family,  others are hatreds built on recent wars and some societies thrive on hatred, revenge, and retribution especially those built on extreme religious fervour. . ..... no amount of government money can change this type of mentality.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

08:56am | 06/04/11

Jade

that’s not the only issue. They import their shamans or ayatollahs or imams or whatever from extremist countries. And anyway, their religion is itself one of extremism

iansand says:

09:01am | 06/04/11

Too right.  Those Serbs and Croats can get out now. And the Turks and Albanians.  And the Greeks and Turks.  Not to mention the Brits and the Irish.  Can we include the Masons and Catholics?  Many ancient enmities have come to our shores.  Most of them have died out.

The skeptic says:

10:38am | 06/04/11

There is a difference between being charged and convicted.  One of the 38 charged and was not a citzen was Dr Muhamed Haneef and we remember how strong the case was against him.  Maybe next time we should try to quote conviction numbers.  It may be wise to remember it is much easier to be arrested/charged under our terrorism laws then under most of our other criminal law.  Wiki is a good starting point for research into this area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Terrorism_Act_2005  and more detailed info from http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/law/terrorism.htm

Neville Chamberlain says:

12:53pm | 06/04/11

The skeptic. You are right . We should wait until someone has blown up a victim and left sufficient eveidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt before taking any action.  I just hope it’s not anyone in my family that is blown to bits. If people live in fear, real or imagined, we should ignore those fears. Wait for clear and present danger before taking action. Don’t learn from other countries who have a head start on this problem.

The skeptic says:

01:40pm | 06/04/11

@Neville Chamberlain,  I am not saying the laws should be relaxed in this respect as this is a preventive measure as you say to stop such things are happening.  However what I was trying to convey is that just by being charged or arrested does not make them terrorist, i.e the true indicator of “being a terrorist” is once they have been found guilty, although I concede on this point that the threshold is beyond reasonable doubt.  The reasons why I had attached those links is so you would understand law regarding the threshold for getting arrested and charged is rather low.  By the way, what you are proposing is something medieval in nature, no proof of guilt.  Remember the inquisition, I thought as a society we had moved on.

Phil says:

05:51pm | 06/04/11

The skeptic. With the exception of Dr Haneef those that are charged are only charged once they have substantial evidence.

Most are ultimately convicted. I am yet to hear or a quashing nor a not guilty verdict.

If it smells like a chook and tastes like a chook then it probably is a chook.

As has been said, extreme Islam is the issue. Most muslims are good people, but whilst they hide or do not speak out against radical extremist islam unfortunately they are all painted with the same brush.
Perhaps if they outed those in their communities and spoke out on issues many Australians would respect them much more than is currently done.

I dont agree with special projects for them myself. We continue to import those whether by choice or not which are Islamic, its only a matter of time in my opinion before a strike is attempted on home soil.

Those convicted in Sydney a few years ago had in their possession enough chemicals to cause major chaos and major loss of life, similar to that of the London bombings. Many of them were unemployed Australian born under the mentoring of a particular Western Sydney Imam/preacher.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

08:57am | 06/04/11

Jennifer, so do I and the easiest way would be not to let any of them in.

The Original Oz says:

09:43am | 06/04/11

Jennifer - reread the article. Not once was Islam, muslim, middle east or refugee used. How can he be spreading Islamaphobia when he doesn’t even bring Islam in to the article??????

Anna C says:

10:22am | 06/04/11

“Just keep spreading the the Islamaphobia Robert.” Yeah right Jennifer, like they need anyone to help them with that.  When it comes to bad press,  Muslims excel at it all on their own.  Nobody’s forcing them to committ terrorist acts.  Stop making excuses for them.

Anna C says:

10:22am | 06/04/11

“Just keep spreading the the Islamaphobia Robert.” Yeah right Jennifer, like they need anyone to help them with that.  When it comes to bad press,  Muslims excel at it all on their own.  Nobody’s forcing them to committ terrorist acts.  Stop making excuses for them.

Anna C says:

10:23am | 06/04/11

“Just keep spreading the the Islamaphobia Robert.” Yeah right Jennifer, like they need anyone to help them with that.  When it comes to bad press,  Muslims excel all at it all on their own.  Nobody’s forcing them to committ terrorist acts.  Stop making excuses for them.

Jon says:

11:13am | 06/04/11

What’s not to like.

The centrality and inescapability of religion, the loss of freedom of thought and expression, the harshness of sharia (Islamic law), the patriarchal suppression of women, including their inequality under sharia, the medieval punishments for apostasy, adultery and even theft, the insistence on a cruel form of animal slaughter, the violence and anti-Semitism of many sacred texts, the disinclination to integrate with the host culture.

“It’s not a phobia – it’s rational to fear Islam” Minette Marrin

TChong says:

08:52am | 06/04/11

Yes, Sheridan, like Sheehan and Mindy Devine- completely objective, if you believe bigottry is acceptable.

Steve says:

08:55am | 06/04/11

I’m sure Sheridan would love seeing his very well-thought out piece reduced to three words which is at best a gross simplification of what he says in his article or at worst simply wrong.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

08:58am | 06/04/11

I agree. You have a link for that?

Simon says:

09:54am | 06/04/11

You’re an idiot. This is the sort of attitude that alienates people and pushes them towards extremism, and is the same attitude that laid the foundations of the Ku Klux Klan. The KKK are essentially the white Christian equivalent of Islamic Extremists, and biggotry like yours is no different to them labelling you a terrorist for being white (assuming that you are white??).

I’m not exactly PC, so don’t think this comment is based on “equal opportunity” or “human rights” bullshit. I’m just pointing out that your “obvious” solution is bollocks. The only way to curb extremism from the East is to demonstrate acceptance from the West.

The world is too small to try and lock the door to the Islamic population. East and West have already met, and trying to “stop Muslim immigration” will only help to expand the recruitment base for extremist organisations and ensure we become a primary target for their campaigns.

the obvious says:

10:07am | 06/04/11

here is the link
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-i-lost-faith-in-multiculturalism/story-fn59niix-1226031793805

I agree that 3 word slogans are rarely helpful. I was annoyed that the article above seemed to be dancing around the truth and avoiding the “I” word or the “M” word at all costs. If we can’t identify the issue we have no hope of dealing with it.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

12:11pm | 06/04/11

That is a superb article. Everyone should read it and the references it provides. 
 
Thanks for the link.

Tom says:

02:03pm | 06/04/11

As soon as I read someone blathering about the KKK, genocide, biggotry, bogans, red-necks, misogynist or Hitler I know they don’t have any argument.

When someone shrieks out “You are an idiot” as their opening sentence, I conclude the same.

Dan says:

05:33am | 07/04/11

TChong, hear hear. But let’s be honest, who takes Sheridan seriously? He’s an absolute hack.

Dan says:

11:00pm | 07/04/11

As opposed to Christianity which makes only small claims and which doesn’t want to be the world’s only religion? Yeh, Christianity isn’t ambitious at all.

The problem isn’t with Islam, which is a great religion, it’s with extremism, and this board shows there are plenty of non-Muslim extremists.

Gavin says:

12:58pm | 06/04/11

What was hicks doing with a bazooka in afghanistan??
Nothing wrong.eh Ricardo?

AFR says:

02:22pm | 06/04/11

Sorry Gavin, the photo with an bazooka was taken in Albania years earlier, and was part of a larger shot with two others. But of course, when you take your information from radio shock jocks and Andrew Bolt you tend to make those mistakes.

RayJay says:

04:02pm | 06/04/11

Yeah Gavin, Hicks was fighting with the Kosovo Liberation Army when that photo was taken. Looks like you are a tool of western media propaganda, don’t worry your not the first and won’t be the last.

P.S. you can buy David Hick’s biography to see the real image for yourself. Education breads enlightenment.

Bonestar says:

04:13pm | 06/04/11

Hick’s is the scummiest bloke in our continent closely followed by the men and women that defend the actions of terrorists. If he was in Kosovo fighting with his muslim mates then what do you think he was doing in Afghanistan with his muslim mates. He’s a wifebasher who abandoned his family

Marilyn Shepherd says:

04:43pm | 06/04/11

Why is it that everytime Hicks is mentioned some dickhead has a whine about the unloaded bazooka in 1999 when Hicks was trying to join the NATO forces to stop a massacre?

Hicks committed no crime in any country and for the truly moronic the US supreme court threw out the charges against him in August 2009 as they were invalid.

Now enough of the demonisation of Hicks.

Four says:

04:49pm | 06/04/11

Bonestar, If the truth doesn’t fit your opinion just change the truth around, nice view of life. Hicks was a wannabe army soldier who ran at the first site of trouble, remember your beloved America was fighting for those same people only a few years ago.

Caring says:

05:02pm | 06/04/11

@Marilyn,People probably worry about the Bazooka as they do about the photos of Milat with his machine gun

TChong says:

09:57am | 06/04/11

I’ll call you, “Cash for comment”- TROLL.
I hope any Conservative Puncher will not fall for this shite, and give such hate filled ranting any credability.

stephen says:

11:02am | 06/04/11

I think Chong has a Muslim friend at work and C. has to keep telling himself…‘I have a Muslim friend at work and he’s really really nice’.
As much a he likes to split his audience into ‘left or right punchers’, he, too, thinks along the lines of ‘Terrorist and un-terrorist’, (really nice or a white bias) as if one could only be one or the other, and not somewhere along the way.
I’ve just finisher reading the Koran - English Annotated - and it seems to me to be to serve the purposes of a War Diary : a Diary to action, and not of exploits.
It’s certainly an inspiration to ‘disenfranchized Youth’.
Unfortunately, these youth are over here, and Mr. Chong should know we are all headed somewhere ; the problem is, where ?

TChong says:

11:37am | 06/04/11

yes stephen , I have muslim friends, as well as jewish, catholic, protestant,  hindu, sikh, buddhist, dream timers, mormon, and atheistic.
Congrats on reading steph.
As for bigger questions on where we are all headed, I dont know how this is really a concern for any one particular religion.
Do you think islam should be able to answer all your existential issues?
Good for you, if you do, but thats something for you to work out Steph, I dont know how I can answer that for you.
BTW- why dont you grow a pair and say straight out your an islamaphobe.?
Your allowed to. That way you dont have to pretend to ask a reasonable question, or make a rational statement.

Knemon says:

11:45am | 06/04/11

I’m too afraid to go out at night, they terrify me. I walk down the street and I can see those evil towel heads looking at me, I cross the street because that rubbish bin next to them is probably loaded with IED’s, I feel like they are watching me, they’ve got their AK47’s aimed at me, I don’t look back, I’m too afraid.

What can I do? I can’t enter the pub, it could be loaded with plastic explosives waiting to be detonated via their mobile phones. I can’t get on a bus because one of them got on with a back pack full of nitro-glycerine, I try to run but I trip, I roll over and fall….onto my bedroom floor, thank god, I’m safe, I reach for the Valium and go back to sleep.

RickyB says:

04:09pm | 06/04/11

You obviously live in Lakemba Knemon(i believe there are many residents that feel the same way),Our own little slice of failed middle eastern paradise.But hey, wear a garbage bag with the eyes cut out & you will fit right in with your burqa loving neighbours.

Anna C says:

10:51am | 06/04/11

Warren, the Red Brigade was an Italian terrorist group made of radical socialists.  I don’t remember them blowing anyone up in the name of God though, so the ban on Christianity wouldn’t have worked with them.

Seanr says:

02:21pm | 06/04/11

Further to Anna C’s comment.
The conflict in Ireland is not about religion it is about land and nationality. Whilst mainly Catholic there are/have been plenty of Protestant republicans.
If it was about religion I would have expected to see a Palestine type situation with Catholics from all around the world bombing UK embassies and companies in support of their persecuted Catholic brothers in Ireland…didn’t happen though did it, at least not with Catholicism.
.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

11:59am | 06/04/11

Damian

they won’t assimilate. And the multiculturalists don’t WANT them to assimilate. That’s what multiculturalism is all about. Having your own little (or large) ethnic enclave. 
 
Frankly, if multiculturalism was gone and we didn’t have PC Thought Police jumping on everything that was remotely un-PC, we probably wouldn’t have much of a problem in three or so generations, just like the Vietnamese. Their kids would see the benefits of being Aussie compared to maintaining sharia law, wearing burqas, banning Christmas and Easter in schools and shops etc etc and they would BE Aussies first and foremost and you wouldn’t even know they were Muslim, which is as it should be IMHO. As it is, we are expected to pander to their religion, so of course they will push for all they can get. 
 
The single best thing we could do is continue the way WE are, minus all this politically correct pandering. The second best would be to stop immigration from ANY area for two generations on a regular basis. That way, they are not being constantly reminded that they are deviating from the way things are done ‘‘back home’’ and they will assimilate more quickly.

James1 says:

12:22pm | 06/04/11

That’s an interesting idea Tony.  A geographically selective, generationally rotated immigration system.

darragh scully says:

12:39pm | 06/04/11

Here here mate. I am an Australian Citizen but I was born in Ireland. I have studied the story of Micheal Collins. He is a Hero in the republic of Ireland. The Brittish have since appologised thrught the voice of Tony Blair for what he stood for. The food that was taken out of Ireland while poor people starved during the Potatoe Blight for example was one thing Blair appologised for. By todays Standards Collins was the Equivilent of Bin Laden. What your ethnocentric little mind left out was the home grown terrorism in the USA, Canada, UK, Russia, Japan, Germany, Turkey, Everywhereystan to.

Assimilation policy is just as to blame for Violence as is putting people in Solitary Confinement untill they go crackers. Think of a food you dont like and then someone forcing it down your throat and you have a crude idea of what it feels like to accept something you dont like. In some cases its good for you like when your mom gets you to eat brussel sprouts. I guess thats where you kind of draw the line. Its ok to get people to assimilate into ‘obeying the law’ especially when it comes to blowing shit and people up however thats about as far as Assimilation goes.  How about when you assimilate Australian Indegenous Communities into your pubs and clubs when they lack the Dehydregenase to break alcohol down and then play drinking games with them only to end up with your teeth smashed in, go figure.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the word assimilation is just a tad to ambiguous here in this statement. What if Communist China for example starts lining us up against the wall and killing us for believing in God. Can we blow them up then? Would that be ok or should we end up like the Jews in the Gas chambers. You see its true, one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorizer.

As far as I know you need to be eclectic in any public policy. Thats what its all about. Deterence alone is not only costly but 99% innefecctive. I wonder if you have applied for the SAS, or ASIO or something like that or any other of the people on here with the same no tolerance ideology to everything. Then again what can you expect when you look at the literacy levels in Australia. But the good news is that yall can read and type so I guess all thats left to do is to get the right information now and evolve.

Damian Parkhill says:

01:49pm | 06/04/11

Scully fyi Jack Van Tolkren is a Australian home grown terrorist

James1 says:

03:38pm | 06/04/11

Darragh, I am heavily biased, but I have to take issue with you comparing Michael Collins with Bin Laden.

There is no comparison.  Collins was a hero, who fought for Ireland’s liberation. Collins was elected in the 1919 elections in Cork (my great-grandmother voted for him).  He played a central role in the insurgency against the British upon their refusal to honour the result of the election.  Sure, there were killings that were not exaclty above board - on both sides - but Collins was not a terrorist.  He was a soldier.

On the other hand, Bin Laden fights for the enslavement of every Muslim (and everyone else) by murdering civilians (Muslim and otherwise) at random.  He has no popular mandate for his activities.  He does not distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate targets.  He is not a soldier, he is a terrorist.

darragh scully says:

04:24pm | 06/04/11

Jack Who? I mean we had a Jack van Tongeran who was millitant against asians most likely to do with his post traumatic stress dissorder after serving in vietnam. The offical way of rating a terrorist is to prove that they are active in a officially registered terrorist organisation. Jack van Tongeran set a few fires and made a hate campaign against people of Asian origins in general. Pretty unwinable campaign if you ask me. To many asian hotties for one plus the food is great especially the black bean beaf. Being a registered terrorist organisationis a hard job. it requires a high level of discipline, a great deal of determination and skill, lots of remote places to hide, access to funding, technical ability, and a hard as nails attitude. I did some reading in Time magazine back in 1996 about the interview process that a prospect for the IRA had to go through. It was extremely strict and confidential and exclusive. Although most civilised areas dont publically support the terrorist organisations they do tend to be of a pretty high standard, with high IQs and support networks. The major difference is ussually their goals and methods of achieving said goals and their likely hood to have extreme religious values that help them achieve their goals. Such people are generally rare. However as the SAS serve as role models for reservists etc alike the Terrorists ussually serve as rolemodels for would be insurgents.

Racisim can be inspired by terrorism and Terrorists are often racist. However I am pretty sure that no one has ever accused Jack van Tongren of being a Terrorist. Martin Bryant had a thing about WASPs and was screaming it out as he shot people. Timmothy McVey, well they called him a terrorist but he was just a lone wolf by the real definition of Terrorist that is. More likely a mass murderer would be more proper to define him. He believed he was a freedom fighter and the last thing he said was something about spilling the blood of patriots and tyrants alike to renew the tree of liberty. If only Tongren, Bryant and Mcveigh had access to the right medication and psychological counselling and support networks rather than the same old same old then perhaps something more could of been done.

To be a terrorist however you need to be part of a Terrorist Group. And thats a complicated thing to understand. Do you know for example that Bin Laden has a rules of engagement book as does the Taliban and that they try to get their people to follow the rules. I dont aggree with them writing their own rules of engement. I think they should consult the Genova Convention and then make a new set of rules. just saying like.

darragh scully says:

06:16pm | 06/04/11

It really goes to show you then how much you know about Bin Laden. Have you atleast read any books about him. And there is no doubt about it that Collins would easilly be classed as a terrorist. He organised an assination campaign against british soldiers. As it turned out History shows that he was a Hero and Soldier. However if someone was to go and finnish the Job off lets say by recruiting as many of the Irish Diaspora as possible they would be classified as Terrorists by todays standards, just like Pira and Rira. Luckilly Collins was part of the IRB not the IRA which is the Dominant Irish Majority whom won a civil war conflict against the original IRA. He was however shot for his belief that Partition was the answer and that it meant the majority of the IRB would not have to fight English Wars anymore or be subjected to Tyrany, Destitution and Despair. Unlike the IRA who believe that the Job shall be one day finnished off. As it so happens my friend, my mothers Uncle was Sean McGarry, who was president of the IRB, Micheal Collins right hand man, whom has often been considered the brains behind much of Collin’s handy work. My fathers fammily is originated fro Dalcassian Society whos roots trace back to the Hill of Tara. Most of whom now live in either Manhatten, New Jersey, Boston, Chicago, Florida, Illinois, DC, Florida or Seattle. So I guess I have a multi cultural perspective on the whole problem. We for some reason have been involved in some way in every war since before the Norman invasion of Ireland and before the Vikings failed to take us over, took part in the Crusades, there is even a street named in Queensland, Scully street after a digger who died at the battle of Ypres. Then take John Scully, he is a American born man from Windsor Conneticut, who fought for World Light Heavy weight Champion agains Henry Masque. He trained in the USA at Mohamad Ali’s camp, met the guy and host of other top yank boxers and he is in the Conneticut Hall of fame as he was Intercontinental Champion. He says he is a good muslim and the militant types make him sick, go figure. What I can say however is something I learned from the veterans of the 69th Infantry who fought in Europe, when they took the Town of Lepzig. They met a whole bunch of the Germans when they were mopping up. What was noted was that they were generally really nice people, liked a beer and good food, social and kind and clean and polite, Nice People. Then it was said that for most people figing wars is just a job. Just and damned Job. Thats why the most important aspect is to cut the enemies supply lines. In the case of Terrorism its monitoring the assets and cash funds that they have and monitoring for changes in behavior which might indicate that they are about to actup.

Darragh Scully says:

06:26pm | 06/04/11

Just to reiterate James1. Collins by todays standards would be considered a Terrorist. In fact he gets a whole chapter in GUERRILLA: Insurgents, Rebels and Terrorists from Sun Tzu to Bin Laden by David Rooney. If your Muslim and you want to know what Europe is really like you have to read this book. If your Australian and you want to know where you come from you have to read this book.

You know Ive been heckled by people who didnt aggree with me and branded a terrorist for all my luck. It was something the other kids in High School used to call me for fun. Ethnocentric slurs that still stir up emotions. Ive punched a few in the face to. ha ha

Levi says:

04:20pm | 06/04/11

try telling that to the PC brigade. Funny how we now need a “Middle eastern crime unit” and an “Asian crime unit”. If they werent here in the first place would we still need such units. Multiculturalism has given us one thing…diverse food choices (nothing you couldnt get out of a cookbook anyway). On the other hand its given us ethnic tension, home grown terrorism, ghettos, vast numbers of “Australians” who can’t even communicate in English, the lingua franca of Australia, overpopulated cities, the list goes on.

There we go Chongy, Christian Real, Kika, Marilyn Shepherd. Theres some ammo for you. Your thoughts?

John says:

11:30am | 08/04/11

just look at India. Even thier most muslims live in ghettos and do not look at getting educated but blame everyone else for thier problem. They dont even mix with the hindu, sikhs or christians in India but are prepared to wage war against India if called for by Pakistan. Do you think the Mumbai attacks did not occur with out good intel from Indian muslims

darragh scully says:

06:48pm | 06/04/11

Fear and Loating not Racisim. Once you brand someone as racist it shuts the whole point of this free speech agenda down. Then again its not racism when you look at the facts. These people probalby have good reason to be apprehensive about the situation especially when you consider the facts, 911, London, Bali, sydneys nuclear reactor, holdsworthy army base and that recent documentary about the knife happy second generation muslims whom have been tipped to spawn an Islamic Insurgency by 2030.

Being Irish though I know about Ethnocentrism and Racism. Did you read the St Paddys day diatribe on the punch, it was all alot of go back to where you came from. Its funny that because we didnt have a choice in the first place when we were cooking in Fremantle Prison as Australias First Migrants. lol. It was good eneough for us then. 

And lately the punch is more fun than facebook which is what used to keep me from my Job Searching. Best Conversation in Australia.

darragh scully says:

05:41pm | 07/04/11

The problem is not a new one.
“Media campaigns by Australia’s academics have also shown a strong manipulation of ugly Australian stereotypes in order to achieve a political objective. One such campaign was run by Dr Tanja Dreher, the University Technology Sydney Shopfront Research Manager. Dr Dreher actively went searching for examples of the fair-go stereotype being inaccurate so that she could then publicly deconstruct it, and replace it with negative stereotypes regarding Australian intolerance and ignorance. Dreher’s evidence to support her stereotype was that in the two months after September 11, 2001, 248 reports were made to the Community Relations Commission for a multicultural NSW (CRC), which had set up a telephone hotline to receive calls relating to perceived racial discrimination. According to Dreher, most of the reports were made by Muslims. Subsequently, Dreher released press-releases of the vein:

“There is in fact evidence of a serious gulf between the myth of ‘a fair go’ Australia and the reality. As a society we need to start taking responsibility for the intolerant and frequently ignorant nation we have become.” (1)

To put things in perspective, at the time there were 340 000 Muslims in Australia. For Dreher, evidence that 1 in every 1500 Muslims in Australia felt they had been discriminated against was a sufficient figure for her to construct a stereotype that Australia had become an intolerant and ignorant nation. “

http://www.convictcreations.com/research/australianstereotypes.html

And the theoretical basis in this page on Stereotyping seems to be supported by this page. Making the Bali Bombing an issue led to the Negative Stereotypes arrising which is similar to the way people pull out their Ocar Australian Stereoptypes on Australia day.

So here it is the perfect page for overcoming the problem of stereotyping.
http://www.amorosity.com/article/Tabkfu

Identify the stereotypes that have marred your judgment, such as *All athletes are poor students* and *All wealthy people are selfish and greedy.*

? Look for exceptions to your stereotypes. You will find brilliant athletes and you*ll meet rich people who support philanthropic causes.

? Eliminate harmful words and phrases from your vocabulary, such as “Every” and *That*s just like a . . .*

? Challenge stereotypes people express about others. Example: Someone says, *All bosses are just out for themselves.* You reply, *That may be true in some cases. But my supervisor makes sure that everybody on his team enjoys an equal opportunity to get promoted.*

? Challenge categories people assign you to automatically. Suggest politely, “You’re mistaken in your opinion about me. Let me tell you why.” With tact and goodwill, you and I can resist accepting the labels we don’t fit. We’ll win respect, and we will pave the way for unblemished communication.

John says:

11:24am | 08/04/11

darragh, I bet you this Doctor didnt point out the fact that other communities were effected not just muslims by these attacks. I bet she forgot to point out and even the whole muslim community forgot to point out that the first victim in a hate based crime as revenge for the 9-11 attacks was a SIKH. Not once has the muslim community even looked at what these fanatical actions have done to another community and not once have they denouced attack on SIKHS.

Just 3 weeks ago two elderly Sikh gentlemen were killed in the US most likely because they were mistaken for muslims yet the Sikh community did not riot call for war against the west unlike the muslim communtiy.

The muslim community would like all to believe that they are the only vicitms that it is only them who have suffered but this is untrue as other have and will continue to suffer. Also note the Libya fighters, they want NATO a western alliance to help them but I can be you as soon as these guys cease power they will the begin anti west call and down with America slogans