Successful schooling begins at home

Jolanda says:

10:39am | 22/12/09

Saintsister you do not have 150 kids in your class at the same time - it is only 25 kids.  If it is not possible for a teacher to appropriately teach 25 kids in one hit then why aren’t the teachers bringing this up with the Education Department and explaining to parents that they are not in a position to properly teach individual student in the class in the current set up and that the parent will have to do the teaching from home if they want them to be able to compete in academic competition and just send the children to school for a social life and to be minded.

A partnership is one thing but more and more schools and teachers are expecting parents to have to tutor their kids just so that they can keep up and compete and so that they can get access to information and learning aimed at their children’s level and ability.  When this happens school becomes just a child minding centre where children go to compete.

You see it is a problem for parents who are not highly educated or who do not have the money to provide access to tutors or coaching if the teachers cannot properly teach the individual students at school in each year.  Hence why I say that students should be placed in the different subject areas at a level of interest and need and not by age.  So a child who doesn’t have parents who are highly educated and can help them or who are not well-off enough to provide tutoring will not have to compete academically with those of the same age who are in optimal home learning environments.  Or those students who have issues in their life will not have to compete against those who have it made and are fully supported.  There is no good reason for making our children progress through on the basis of their age and compete in this fashion.  These disadvantaged students could just take it a bit slower as without the external leanring environment they will struggle to compete.

And sure there are teachers who do nurture, care for and do the right thing but they appear to be far and few between.  You as a teacher may not know or have identified a single one who fails to do this, but my kids as students have come across a few and I am sure that they are not alone.  A lot of excuses are heard and many of them you can relate to like lack of motivation, lack of interest, poor moral but at the end of the day teaching is a ‘profession’ and if there are teachers out there who are not doing a good job then they should be removed from their position and/or retrained as the damage they do to the students is real.

In answer to your question - Already because my children were naturally advanced I was criticised for having ‘taught’ my children and creating problems with the mismatch that they experienced when placed in their age/year.  So should we send our children to school to do nothing and then just tutor them at home so that they can compete with other tutored kids?  Is that what school will be?  It was impossible for me to provide what my children were missing at school because what they were missing was appropriate education provided to them whilst at school and protection from bullies within the system and those who failed in their duty of care.

Saintsister says:

08:27pm | 21/12/09

Jolanda, I don’t know a single a teacher who fails to, as you put it, “nurture the children, talk to their students, be an adult, set standards of behaviour, provide access to appropriate information and set a good example.”  My colleagues and I do that every day, but I teach six different classes, with 25 kids in each.  There’s only so much I can do for each of the 150 students that adds up to.  That doesn’t mean I don’t do my job with care and love and compassion, but it does mean that there are limits to what I, and my colleagues, and can provide.  This is not using funding and resources as an excuse.  The best results happen when parents and teachers work together with realistic expectations of each other.  I doubt that you have 150 children, so maybe you are in a position to provide some of what you feel your child is missing out on at school.

Jolanda says:

02:18pm | 20/12/09

Bitten so why is it okay for schools and teachers to say that they don’t have enough money to do a good job when all they need is to nurture the children, talk to their students, be an adult, set standards of behaviour, provide access to appropriate information and set a good example.

Bitten says:

12:50pm | 20/12/09

It does not cost money to be a good parent and to support your child. Stop giving bad parents an excuse (oh, well, I don’t have enough money, so it’s ok for me to be a sh*t parent) when all they need to do is be with their child, nurture their child, talk to their child, be the adult in the relationship, set standards of behaviour for their child, provide a moral compass for their child. All of those things are free. Stop giving bad parents excuses.

Jolanda says:

09:23am | 20/12/09

Gavin alot of the problems with disengaged children happens because nobody listens to them or shows that they care.  A parent or guardian who is bringing up issues at school, 9 times out of 10, doesn’t just wake up one morning and make them up.  They are responding to their children’s complaints, their children’s concerns and their children’s development.  It is the parent’s job to speak out for their children.  Teachers are in a situation where they can blame lack of funding for just about everything.  If there is a child at any end of the extremes or bell curve or who has issues they suffer despite being as much a child as any other child and having just as much a right to an appropriate education.  The vast majority of parents who bring up concerns have justifiable good reason to bring up concerns and should be treated with respect. 

Sainsister whilst I understand that the issue of ‘funding and resources’ is something that is often used as an excuse by teachers for failing to appropriately educate all students as far as I am concerned it is a ‘created’ situation and it is something that can be changed.  When there are teachers and there are books and there is a will so much can be done to ensure that all students are provided with appropriate education.  Placing students in classes on the basis of their interests, ability and needs in the different subject areas would help as then teachers wouldn’t have to deal with students who can have more than a 5 year spread in their ability level and often when there is such a spread the level of interest isn’t there and behavioural problems arise.
 
It is the set up of our education system that is creating the problems and yes it is very difficult for some teachers to educate a class load of kids, with all the issues that they have, when they are all at different levels and that is why the current system is failing our children.  Children should progress through education at a pace and level that is appropriate and suitable for them, for some it is faster for some it is slower, it often depends on what is going on in their life at the time.  Making them all go in lock step through all the different subjects at the same/similar age is causing many of the problems we are experiencing today because every child is different even if they are the same age.

Saintsister says:

05:06pm | 18/12/09

A successful education takes input from a whole range of people: the student, their teachers, their family, their peers and our governments.  Public education needs to be placed at the forefront of government policy.  Congratulations to Julia Gillard for the moves she has made in boosting the status of education (though I doubt league tables on a website will make the slightest difference).

To Jolanda, as a teacher who works with disengaged students I appreciate your sentiments but I think you over simplify the options available to schools in meeting the needs of students.  At the end of the day, schools have finite resources to meet infinite needs, and unfortunately that means saying no to some parents’ demands.  As much as I would love to meet every need of every student every day, there isn’t enough of me (or my colleagues) to do that. 
I work with students like Jack every day and I know the difference that support from a range of people makes to the lives of our young people.  I thank God for groups such as the Smith Family that value the potential our young people have and work tirelessly to support them.

Gavin says:

04:48pm | 18/12/09

Jolanda, pushy parents are like know-it-all patients to doctors. People need to stand back and let the people who know what they are doing do it. Parents are rarely objective in their agendas (rightly so), so let’s go back to the days of Teacher Knows Best. Don’t like it, then change schools.

MF says:

04:42pm | 18/12/09

@Chase - I certainly don’t deny that I’m a cynic.  But having been through it on my own - and yes, I really was on my own, beyond what few friends I made at university - how on earth are you surprised?  And when you’re working 30 odd hours a week, and trying to get through school/uni to support yourself, you don’t exactly have much time at the end of the day to spend with your friends.  You come home and do your assignments and reports.  I really didn’t have anybody who was there for me.  And I still came out the other end of it ok.

I now work in the university system, and see the students who come through.  I have to teach them.  Some of them aren’t in a much better situation than I was.  Not much has really changed.

Honestly, I find it sad that people keep making excuses for why they don’t succeed at school/university.  Socio-economic status is a cop-out in Australia.  We have an education system that doesn’t require up-front fees for tuition.  It’s more than possible to work your way through university without parental/other familial support.  Those with enough motivation will succeed.

Chase Stevens says:

03:11pm | 18/12/09

@San Leung parents should be proud of their children regardless of what they do for a living.

San Leung says:

02:18pm | 18/12/09

I believe in education but I don’t believe in forcing university education on everyone and having belief that someone with “formal education” is better than someone with none. When there is such a skills shortage in trades, we need to do better as a nation to make sure that schools and parents are proud that their child aspires to be a “tradie” and is happy to finish school in Yr 10 to become one.

Chase Stevens says:

02:16pm | 18/12/09

MF you have a very cynical attitude are you saying you relied on and had no support from anyone? Because I strongly doubt that, Humans are a social animal, we need those social networks to allow us to grow and learn. Family isn’t restricted to blood it can and does include friends and other people who are simply there for you.

If you do not have a support network of any kind you will fail. Obviously however you have to be interested in succeeding and support networks do a lot to facilitate that.

Irene says:

02:00pm | 18/12/09

MF, I am sorry that you feel that way. While it is true that success or failure rests with the student, family and friend support helps. With that support, even unmotivated persons can feel the urge to learn. When my children were at secondary, I encouraged them to come home for lunch, with whomever they wished to bring. This included ‘streetkids’. from primary on, after school was snack, an hour’s play outside, then homework at the kitchen table as I made tea. Any friends visiting had the same rule.  there was conversation, often about jobs, part time in secondary…and this was encouraged. Let them do 10 hours of Maccas a week, for it makes apprenticeship, TAFE,and Uni much more appealing! Most of all, for those less academically inclined than yourself, encourage weekend ‘offsider’ work. That is how my son discovered a love for all things electrical. He is now a sparky. My other two are still in Uni. Trying work, having choices supported by parent(s), study time regular and encouraged ... all help your child discover what they want to do in life. That is the parental job, neither encouraging school for school’s sake, nor discouraging it for money’s sake.

stephen says:

12:31pm | 18/12/09

I agree parents should have input to a child’s school success, but only in the home. They should not interfere in the workings of the teacher or of the curriculum, as Chris Pyne advocates.

MF says:

11:18am | 18/12/09

I came from a similar “disadvantaged” family situation.  Neither parent finished grade 12 (or the equivalent), both parents were on my back to “get a job” as soon as I was old enough, and refused to support me beyond grade 10, when I could have theoretically dropped out of school to get a job. 

Why did I need to finish school when I could have gone to work then?  Why on earth did I want to go to university and get a piece of paper to become an elitist snob?

You’d maybe be surprised how common such attitudes are in this country.  So I had no support for my final 2 years at school.  I was kicked out half way through grade 12 for not “financially contributing enough, when you could have a full time job if you wanted one”.  And you know what?  I still finished high school.  Put myself through 4 years of undergraduate.  And another 3 years of a PhD.  All without one iota of support, moral or financial, from my “family”. 

You do NOT need family support to succeed at school.  If you rely on others to support you, you will fail.  Rely on nobody but yourself.  If you are motivated enough, you can succeed.

SD says:

09:38am | 18/12/09

It’s not solely about good parenting.

Compared to females, males are at a distinct biological disadvantage in Years 11 and 12 because of their later onset of puberty and resulting maturational issues.

I propose that males should do have and extra two years factored into their schooling – possibly around Years 2 and 3.

Liz says:

09:10am | 18/12/09

Yep it all starts and ends in the home.The Smith Family do great work,keep it up

Jolanda says:

09:00am | 18/12/09

Of course family support is extremely important but unfortunately schools often call parents who bring up issues in relation to their children’s education ‘pushy’ and these schools can get upset that the parents have ‘spoken out’ and they can make the students and families life miserable and can actually even put a big black mark against the students name that will have a negative impact on the student no matter where they are.

Parents are always blamed for everything but often it is the teacher or schools fault because they don’t’ particular like students or parents who challenge the set up or the status quo.

The one size fits all doesn’t actually cater for difference and our children are all different even if they are the same/similar age.  A caring teacher and a good school makes a huge difference to a student’s attitude and results regardless of the students home background. 

Schools need to start setting up the classes to suit the needs and interests of the students not testing our kids and putting them into classes on the basis of their test marks as test marks are highly influenced by the teacher and the student’s home environment.  Students shouldn’t have to win access to information and knowledge it should be offered to all at the level and pace the student believes that they would prefer and that would benefit them.

I think it is great that there are people out there supporting children in their education. 

Education - Keeping them HOnest
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Our children deserve better

Teacher says:

05:48am | 18/12/09

Yes. Absolutely. Family support is everything and as a teacher one of the most gutting things is to hear comments from parents like ‘why would you want to learn THAT?’, or the even more heartbreaking ‘you’re not smart enough for that’.

For some reason I’ve seen it more with boys: as soon as some boys show an aptitude at art or drama, their parents drag them out to do sport or man arts because ‘that’s poofter stuff’. Sad, sad, sad.