“We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

“Ragheads’‘, “dune coons’‘, “sand niggaz’’ and “smelly locals’‘. Last night we were exposed to ADF soldiers with experience in Afghanistan acting in prejudicial, discriminatory, racist ways. That is what we call it in the civilian world.

A group of soldiers, some who have served overseas in contemporary conflicts, and apparently some who are serving, have allegedly posted their discontent on the social networking site Facebook. They have expressed their disdain, their hatred of the Afghanis, their racist and pejorative perspective of those they are charged to ‘liberate’ and their insubordination to their boss, Lieutenant General Gillespie.

Major General Symon said “thousands would be disgusted by the revelations”. “What is happening here will cause deep offence to a lot of people,’’ he said.

Maybe this kind of behaviour is unacceptable in the ADF - or is it?

As an infantry soldier in the Operational Defence Force in the 1990s I was profoundly changed by military culture. We were a battalion of men - largely young men - who worked hard and played hard. We lived in a metaphorical bunker, a social cocoon displaced and separated from mainstream society.

In isolation, groups of young men get up to mischief.

Prejudice marked the territory between us - a tight knit group of military mates - and them: those with brown skin (nugget or ace of spades), the refugees (navy test target) the gay man or lesbian woman (pillow biter or carpet licker), the misfit (squeezer) or women (frontbums, bikes or life support system for a vagina). Internally, anyone that wasn’t of an arms corps, or was a threat to the solidarity of the group were named and abused: pogos, the putsch, weeds, meatheads, blanket folders or malingerers.

Sexual adventure, binge drinking, and other bizarre rituals of bonding shaped our daily grind.

Scaffold that with the state-sanctioned capacity for violence. One becomes ten foot tall and bullet proof. All at about 19 or 20 years old.

In later years, as a military police Corporal I saw the way this infantile behaviour panned out across the Army. Now I research it as an academic.

There is a long and consistent account of soldier’s behaving badly. Since 1970 we have been exposed to bullying, radical initiation ceremonies, sex, drug and alcohol scandals, and racism.

The Commonwealth spends significant amount of taxpayers’ dollars to investigate and run inquiries into military indiscretions. Every decade since has been marked by bullying, racism, the sexual degradation of women, and a culture of alcoholism. Social networking, digital photography and ICT in the contemporary era has made it harder and harder to hide.

Major General Paul Symon explains:

I struggle to understand, with all the training that we do and with the quality of soldiers that we have, that that sort of language has been posted.

If he is perplexed, the community is dumbfounded, and betrayed. As a nation we so want to celebrate the hard work and sacrifice of our boys.

And that is where the part of the answer lies.

These rough men are boys, with a great burden, and an unhealthy sense of license, exacerbated in combat perhaps, but part of the rituals of bonding of 18-24-year-old manhood in an exclusive trade.

The community isn’t saying the ADF isn’t an honourable institution; we are saying be exemplary. This behaviour, for the majority of Australians, is embarrassing.

It is unprofessional, it contradicts the values it seeks to uphold.

Are we really safe in our beds at night?

242 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Matt says:

      12:15pm | 25/03/11

      “life support system for a vagina” hahaahaha
      I’ll be using that one tonight!

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      12:44pm | 25/03/11

      You won’t be getting laid then.

    • Matt says:

      01:32pm | 25/03/11

      not as a pick up line silly… actually I’m not sure how I will use it, but I shall make it my mission to fit it into conversation somehow.

    • Seanr says:

      01:52pm | 25/03/11

      You go for it Matt and if for some wildly improbable reason it works as a pickup line, please post the story.

    • Nathan says:

      02:26pm | 25/03/11

      Ben - you are just another PC fool undermining the good work Aussie diggers have done protecting our country for many decades . Why don’t you go over to Afghanistan as a soldier and see how easily you deal with it . It is easy to make comment from the luxury of your office. Pull your head in idiot.

    • No Nazis. says:

      04:20pm | 25/03/11

      Preach, Ben, Preach! You are spot on about this.  These soldiers should know this is unacceptable and brings the Australian Army into disrepute by making it look like it’s hiring Nazis. No other country wants to fight alongside Nazis. Also, racists love calling other people PC if you disagree with them and it’s getting old and shows their stupidity. If being PC means not being a racist a-hole, then bring on the PC.

    • Levi says:

      05:32pm | 25/03/11

      GODWINS LAW!!! You just had to do it didnt you “No Nazis”. Every army in the world is racist. Name one that isnt. Are you calling all armies Nazi armies? If so then Hitler won by stealth haha. They are soldiers, they need to let off steam, and i doubt they would have any kind things to say about the locals when the “locals” are planting IED’s and hurling 7.62’s at them.

    • john says:

      06:11pm | 25/03/11

      @Matt “actually I’m not sure how I will use it, but I shall make it my mission to fit it into conversation somehow.”

      Usually only said to a guy if he has a very large penis. “life support for a penis”, life support for a vagina is a recent extension.

      You can use “life support for a vagina” or better known to use “life support for a penis”  if your joking with your lover in a adoring way, its shows that you love their vagina or penis very very much.

      Or you can use it in a derogatory manner to suggest the person has no brains, and suggest they are a lower life form and only reasonable for sex. Like a model, or hung guy with a hot body with no brains.

    • michael j says:

      10:08pm | 25/03/11

      NO NAZIs so you think Australian soldiers get their jollies by watching
      guard dogs rip children to bits
      you think Australian soldiers murder men,women,and children in cold blood
      if that is your idea of PC ,well best of luck to ya
      Why don’t you join up and go over for a Tour,,,,,,,,,,,

    • acotrel says:

      07:15am | 26/03/11

      How can you kill someone, if you don’t believe they’re subhuman? If you believe our soldiers are there to play footsie, you’re deluding yourself. Eventually our men have to come home and live with themselves.

    • acotrel says:

      07:44am | 26/03/11

      @Levi I notice that’Godwin’s law’ only ever relates to comments about Nazis, never to comments about commies!

    • john says:

      12:15pm | 25/03/11

      IMHO Its not as bad as ditch the witch & Bob Browns bitch placards.

      “Ragheads’‘, “dune coons’‘, “sand niggaz’’ and “smelly locals’‘

      smelly locals? Are people that sensitive now days?

      Can we have double standards and punish our soldiers and not punish our protestors?

    • Elphaba says:

      12:22pm | 25/03/11

      You have GOT to be joking.

      And all the offensive placards for Howard were appropriate, were they?

      You’re disgusting.

    • john says:

      01:21pm | 25/03/11

      @Elphaba, Are you drunk?, Whats wrong with the Howard placards? they were fair, whats wrong with them? after all he did send in mercenaries to our waterfront. How quickly brains cells die and forget.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:32pm | 25/03/11

      @John, you’re the one who is drunk.  Calling Julia Gillard ‘Browns (sic) Bitch’ (or lackey, if you object to ‘bitch’), is perfectly true.

      She even had to come out and say she was her own woman because she knew that Brown has his hand up her back.

      But somehow Coward the Hunt or depictions of Howard on a leash with George W behind are totally appropriate in your book.  Also, completely racist remarks are appropriate.

      Get your hand off it, you hypocrite.

    • NicoleG says:

      01:45pm | 25/03/11

      Elphaba, I reckon he’s stoned. There’s a lot of stoned posters lately and I want to know where they get their gear. Going by some of their comments, it’s damn good shit.

    • Max Redlands says:

      02:06pm | 25/03/11

      too right Elphaba - the hypocrisy is breathtaking

    • Super D says:

      02:07pm | 25/03/11

      Certainly the placard that described the Liberals and Nationals as the “Coalition of the Killing” was totally outrageous and anyone who addressed a crowd in front of it should be punished.  You can refresh your memory here:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GuSj5DdKmfA

    • Elphaba says:

      02:17pm | 25/03/11

      @NicoleG, hilarious! :-D It must be good, if it can help you suspend all rational belief.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:21pm | 25/03/11

      @Super D - winner.

      I guess it’s back in your box for you, John.  Thanks for playing.

    • Mayday says:

      03:31pm | 25/03/11

      What about Greg Combet urging his Union members to send in their own children to our waterfront?!

    • john says:

      04:31pm | 25/03/11

      @Elphaba and others

      whats wrong with you guys getting hysterical over placards?

      Must be bored housewives, kindy school teachers, or nutters that are offended if a fly lands on their food.

      Get a life people. We see vagina’s and penises on TV these days and people blown up on the 6 o’clock news and so much trash on the internet verging on the insaneand all you can do is fire up over placards.

      Go see a shrink to sort yourselves out or have a camomile tea and calm down. Freak shows everywhere.

    • Bruno says:

      04:37pm | 25/03/11

      umm - the ones who are calling the other guy a pothead are the ones who want to smoke some.

      getting to the article, the argument that it is ok to send soldiers over there to kill them but not to insult them is stupid. Our soldiers are not over there to kill anyone primarily, they are primarily over there to protect the civilians from the taliban. If you do not understand that you are either a child or mentally challenged for your age or a closet racist or an open racist.

      These soldiers are placing the civilians in the same boat as the taliban. These individual soldiers are obviously not children, so they must be mentally challenged for their age or closet racists or open racists. Perhaps they are trying to incite the civilians to join the taliban. More hogs to shoot so to speak.

      Anyway history has shown there is a major conflict every couple of generations that makes all previous conflicts look like skirmishes. Its been a couple of generations since WWII. I’d like to see (not really because that would drag me into it, you see thats why I am anti war because I practice what i preach, you’re obviously a do as i say not as i do types) how brave some of these keyboard commandos would be then.

    • john says:

      04:53pm | 25/03/11

      @Elphaba please stop embarrassing yourself, do you even know what a hypocrite is or even how to use it in a sentence? or did you just learn that word today? an example of a hypocrite is when looking in the mirror and applying make-up because you think you will look beautiful but you really know your not., then you tell others they look ugly.  smile

    • Elphaba says:

      06:09pm | 25/03/11

      @john - unbelievable.  By your logic, placards/people calling Julia BB’s bitch and racist are not ok, but placards/assessments just as bad against the Liberals are fine.

      I didn’t like the placards calling her a witch, or insulting her hair colour (I’m sure there was one of those).  Not acceptable.  In a perfect world, placards and politicians would attack policy, not character.

      Yes, I stand by my assessment.  You want Labor protestors to be punished for exercising a democratic right, but are willing to excuse the disgusting behaviour of your own lot.  If it walks like a hyprocrite, and talks like a hypocrite…

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      06:32pm | 25/03/11

      Don’t waste your time pointing out how ridiculous the Lefties ranting over a few placards is. The fact is, they know it’s absurd.

      It’s just a means to distract from the rally itself, and a willing media have pretty much gone along with it. Ask yourself, how much coverage did the rally and its participants get? Where were the interviews with the people behind the rally? Where was the analysis of the issue?

      No, there was none of the above because the media went along with Julia’s trolls and happily went into mock hyperventilation over a rather innocuous placard or two. Instead of raising awareness and support for the anti-tax lobby, all we’ve had is the usual playground politics, “He started it Miss!”

      You’ve got to hand it to the Left - they’ve been at this protesting malarky a lot longer than we less organised citizens, and we were dudded. As I said however, they only pulled it off thanks to a complicit media.

    • john says:

      07:23pm | 25/03/11

      @Elphaba…oh not another scan reader, now i know why your pissed off, explains everything….
      I am saying ALL the placards are fine for both labor and liberal.

      Originally so to stick with the PUNCH story I was only comparing the soldiers to the recent placards and defending them for the use of language, suggesting they should not be punished when compared to recent events.

      You took it out of context and made it a liberal/labor thingy. Wires crossed dear.

      I’m not sensitive to placards and the language used,  Perhaps I’m more accommodating by anything offensive these days, sometimes even entertained, you can have a go at me for that if you wish.

      Try reading posts a little slower and you will find a different meaning.

    • john says:

      07:44pm | 25/03/11

      @Elphaba   “I didn’t like the placards calling her a witch, or insulting her hair colour (I’m sure there was one of those).  Not acceptable. “

      Why?? Whats wrong with that? Why isn’t it acceptable? I dont understand why your so upset.

      Could it be that thousands of years of democratic blood in my veins {first born in Australia} from the cradle of democratic civilisation has made me more accommodating about people’s opinions, feelings..who knows?.

      The riots in Greece to me looked like people were letting of steam. The government there knows this and accommodates for it.

      Here in Australia people dont riot much and are very very well behaved, {well maybe some little ones like cronulla, and redfern}and only show a few placards to let off steam. I don’t understand why people can’t voice an opinion or their feelings on placards in peaceful protest if they have been provoked by untruths by their leaders.

      I was led to believe this is a free country- off course your free to complain. I’m listening but I don’t get it yet.

    • NicoleG says:

      07:49pm | 25/03/11

      Right john, direct me as to where I can get some of that gear. Looks good.

    • john says:

      10:12pm | 25/03/11

      @ NicoleG ...if ya really wanna know….tried box juice and nearly threw up, tadpole juice is good ‘gear’, same as you perhaps.

    • Glen says:

      12:16pm | 25/03/11

      Let’s see if the author doesn’t resort to name calling certain groups if he was fired upon in a war zone.

    • rockpig says:

      03:03pm | 25/03/11

      Exactly, Glen. I doubt the local militia is calling our forces ‘gentlemen’ whilst they’re over there trying to instil some semblance of peace to their self-imposed ‘shithole’.

    • PaulB says:

      04:20pm | 25/03/11

      A little history will tell you that their “shithole” status is anything but self-imposed.  Superpowers have been fighting idiotic proxy wars in Afghanistan and countries like it for years.  Are you stupid enough to actually believe we are there to help anybody?

    • Levi says:

      05:38pm | 25/03/11

      Newsflash PaulB, Afghanistan has always been a “shithole”. Even Alexander the great knew that.

    • Ironside says:

      12:27pm | 25/03/11

      While certainly disrespectful how is it any more offensive to refer to an Afghan as a dune coon, than it was to refer to a German Soldier in WW1 as a Hun, in WW2 as a Krout, a Japanese Soldier as a Jap or a Nip, or how about a North Vietnamese Soldier being called a gook?
      What these soldiers did and said is no more wrong that it was to do it or say it in past conflicts, these guys were just stupid for saying it on facebook.

    • Dean says:

      04:25pm | 25/03/11

      Ironside
      I absolutely agree, when I joined the Army in the 1980’s it was ground into us from day one. It’s a technique that is as old as war itself. It’s done so that it dehumanises the enemy, because if we thought of them as someone’s father/son/husband/father, they may not pull the trigger.

      A soldiers life is traumatic one, that exists in a complexly different world to our comfortable life. They are asked to do a job that is far more disgusting that a few more nasty words. Get off their back and let them get on with it.

    • DougB says:

      12:31pm | 25/03/11

      Ben, to use Tory’s term, ICB.
      I too served in the army as a grunt then as an MP.  Yes we referred to others by all those slang names, you throw up, but, here’s the thing.  I have found that most civilians also have names similar or identical for the very things you are referring too.
      These men share a very unique bond, that few in outside society enjoy.  It is the bond of knowing that your life literally depends on your co-workers. It applies to Police, firemen and a few other select groups, but it is not experienced by the general population at large.
      The comment “Are we really safe in our beds at night?” is pure fearmongering and designed to elicity emotional responses and is almost as irresponsible as the comments posted by the young men on Facebook.
      How many soldiers are involved? I suspect that the entire “30,000 or so members have not all posted these comments, but a small few. I am proud that they make it safe for me to sleep at night, and I know that if regional populations ever decided that our vacant land should be theirs, sooks like you would be hiding in your city apartments, crying “Where’s the Defence Force!” regardless of their attitude or beliefs.

    • Seanr says:

      01:47pm | 25/03/11

      Doug, Ben has his career to think of, he’s made one out of criticising (sorry analysing) military culture (check out the Flinders Uni website). Therefore he couldn’t let an opportunity like this go to waste.

      Ben, whilst I certainly think that the comments made were inappropriate and racist it seems to be to more an explain of people letting off steam under stressful circumstances. However I am sure you and the media will make a lot more of this, unfortunately supported by the senior brass whose job now entails PC public relations.

    • Seanr says:

      03:21pm | 25/03/11

      sorry that should be ” an example” not “an explain”

    • Greg says:

      04:36pm | 25/03/11

      Seanr. I certainly hope some of the troops listening to and reading some of the bloody disgusting comments aren’t gay. What sort of message is that sending them? Just how would you feel if a battalion you were in was made up of homosexuals making derogatory and vilifying remarks about heterosexual civilians. From my experience that would not happen because most gay men I know are respectful, but hopefully some of you naive rednecks get the message I am making. Most of them are doing a fine job but there are the odd few lads that need a quick boot up the butt to get them in line!

    • Ben Wadham says:

      09:02pm | 25/03/11

      I guess one difference is that am drawing now on my trade as a sociologist. I look at patterns of social behavior not individuals. This may confuse the average punter. I know this stuff exists elsewhere. I have a few books on the subject. You miss the point ... No one is bagging the ADF… We are as part of a liberal democracy having a say in our military. Are you and the other reactive posters here against that? I left the army partly because of this massively narrow mindset. It in itself is prejudicial by it’s narrowness. We are not an authoritarian nation, develop an open thoughtful and respectful dialogue.

    • Ben Wadham says:

      11:08pm | 25/03/11

      Seanr ...Is it wrong that I research the military and ADF? Why do we have a military? Your argument drags us all into a state of violence and chaos doesn’t it?

      All the best.

    • michael j says:

      07:42pm | 27/03/11

      @ Ben so what you are trying to say is the best thing to do is get out of Afghan and leave it to the goatherders to settle their 2,500 year old disagreements themselves and do a proper study of their society so future generations don’t say bad things about them fair enough
      Libya and the UN have been at war for two weeks and its nearly over,why
      ten years in Afghanistan,,two weeks in Libya,,,,,,Ben something funny going on ere,sounds like a social problem alrite,

    • Andrew says:

      08:16pm | 27/03/11

      I would have nothing good to say about a group of people (for the want of a better term) that are shooting at me or trying to blow me up.  Get off your soap boax and let the guys do their job.

    • Erick says:

      12:47pm | 25/03/11

      What a storm in a teacup. It’s not a good look, but it isn’t a soldier’s job to be nice to everyone. If you want perfect political correctness, send academics to Afghanistan instead.

      Personally, I’d rather be protected by a rude bloke who knows how to use a gun, than some regulation-bound wuss who’s afraid of mere words. Unfortunately, our society has become somewhat decadent, and the elites chuck a fit whenever someone says something naughty.

    • Rosie says:

      02:21pm | 25/03/11

      Once again I am agreeing with you Erick!

      I am finding it difficult to keep up with what is politcally correct these days. I put it down to my age, but in no way am I going to stress over it. I would also not like to swap with some regulation-bound academic wuss who hasn’t the wisdom and understanding that only comes with age.

      I listened to what General Peter Cosgrove had to say and yes our soldiers should be slapped on the wrist but not ostracised. Our Minister for Defence should heed General Cosgrove’s defence for the soldiers and leave it at that.

      Like the placards - the real issue which is dishonesty was pushed aside and a lot of fuss by Labor MPs to protect precious Juliar’s reputation! Oh poor thing!

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      02:33pm | 25/03/11

      I agree.
      I always did wonder whether the RAAF flight attendant who cried after a Rudd hissy fit was really the kind of person who should be defending our nation.

    • James1 says:

      02:36pm | 25/03/11

      It is bad enough that some of our soldiers are so ignorant that they are still racists (as racism is always motivated by ignorance, in my experience).  I would like to hope that our soldiers were at least intelligent enough to know not to post such stuff on Facebook though.

      Its not so much about being naughty, but just plain stupid.  If ADFA leaves them so ignorant that not only is racism okay, but also that public airing their racist views is okay, what exactly is it that ADFA does?

    • patche says:

      02:48pm | 25/03/11

      You have missed the point completely (as usual). These soldiers are fighting a counter insurgency and if you have read anything on these types of operations you have to get the civilians on your side or you are stuffed. These comments can do a great deal of harm. Try searching the term “Strategic Corporal” and you might learn something.

    • Rude Bloke Who (Doesn't) Know How to Use a Gun says:

      04:33pm | 25/03/11

      I think army people are sissy pants.  Nyah nyah!

    • Jamie says:

      06:01pm | 25/03/11

      I rarely agree with you Erick but as an ex Infantry soldier and RAAF ground defence, you are correct. This article is nothing more than sensationalism.

    • Reg says:

      07:57pm | 27/03/11

      Jamie;  “I rarely agree with you Erick ......................., you are correct.”

      Yes he is and as usual, for the wrong reason.

      Erick; “some regulation-bound wuss who’s afraid of mere words.”

      Lots of good men lie at the bottom of the ocean because of “mere words.”

      Obviously immaturity is not restricted to the young .

    • Eccles9 says:

      12:48pm | 25/03/11

      So we officially sanction these youngsters in uniform to use high explosives and projectiles to reduce a human being to a pulpy mush in a far flung land, but we find it offensive that they could use some racist language in the process?

    • RobJ says:

      02:18pm | 25/03/11

      “that they could use some racist language in the process? “

      Yes, when they are referring to the people they are supposed to be training and protecting. What is it with all you people who don’t realise for the mission to be successful we have to win the locals hearts and minds. It isn’t a buzzword, it’s what you have to do to beat an insurgency. You have to get the locals on side.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      03:09pm | 25/03/11

      RobJ - A buzzword is exactly what it is. How well did ‘winning the hearts and minds’ work is Vietnam?
      It isn’t going to work in Afghanistan. Do you think that the Afghanis want us there? They like us more than Al Queda. They tolerate coalition forces because the alternative is much worse. That’s all.

      Besides, I think building a new school, or a hospital, may counteract a few soldiers saying ‘dune coon’, don’t you?

      How many do you think will see the comments made by these soldiers? Do you really think that they go cruising Aussie soldiers’ facebooks?

      Even if they did, by some miracle see the footage, they’d also simultaneously see the ADF disicplining the soldiers responsible for their bad behaviour..

    • Neroli says:

      06:22pm | 25/03/11

      YEP, that about sums it up. ridiculous isn’t it.

    • Chris T says:

      12:48pm | 25/03/11

      We expect soldiers to kill.  We can hardly expect them to be politically correct as well….that’s all a bit nice for a soldier.

    • RobJ says:

      02:19pm | 25/03/11

      Yes, when they are referring to the people they are supposed to be training and protecting. What is it with all you people who don’t realise for the mission to be successful we have to win the locals hearts and minds. It isn’t a buzzword, it’s what you have to do to beat an insurgency. You have to get the locals on side.

    • James1 says:

      02:38pm | 25/03/11

      Its not about political correctness though, is it.  Racism is a product of stupidity and ignorance.  I for one would like to think that our soldiers are not stupid and ignorant.  Now we know that at least some are so monumentally stupid as to advertise their ignorance on Facebook.  As Erick notes, it is a very bad look.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      12:49pm | 25/03/11

      A few years ago I was having a beer with a (non-white) member of one of the combat corps who was going to be in Afghanistan. Made some comments that made those of us around him say “you wouldn’t want a camera rolling around you when you said that”. I’m sure that a heck of a lot of negative attitudes exist in the ADF. I’m sure that their members have

      a) more license to say this than in most work places (yes there are policies but doesn’t sound like they are enforced with uniform strictness)
      b) more stress
      c) less acceptance of not going with the “group culture”

      They are under more pressure to say the wrong thing than most of us. But these are reasons, not excuses to be accepted.

      Doesn’t mean don’t do things that are well - ridiculously heroic. I work a rougher job than most but its not the same as getting shot at for wages that - while on operation are good- but never enough for the danger.  Still its not ok, and I doubt the case is as isolated as we would like to think. Clearly the ADF needs to get even more heavily into pushing the :“when you are a soldier you are a representative of your country” line

    • Andrew says:

      06:22pm | 25/03/11

      This is the most rational and intelligent response to this situation I have read so far.

      As a serving member, with 28 years experience and having recently returned from Afghanistan, I am at a loss to explain their stupidity.

      Soldiers will say things in private and amongst their mates that would make the average civilian die of shame. That is the way it is, always has been, always will be. It is a release from the stress of combat.

      These morons have posted it into the public domain via Facebook and now channel 7. Thus it is now public fodder. And if you think Defence and Army are going to allow this to slide away into the night then you have another thing coming. When our Minister Smith has to apologise on behalf of the Government to his equal in the Afghan government, what do you think is going to happen?

      People are going to burn over this, and as far as I and as the Vice Chief of Army says, rightly so.

      This has nothing to do with being PC. It has everything to do with undermining our mission in Afghanistan. We are guests in that country and as such our behaviour to the people we are there to defend and train must be above reproach.

      Cheers

    • D says:

      11:31am | 26/03/11

      Andrew, good comment mate.

    • TracyH says:

      12:03pm | 28/03/11

      @HTPM and Andrew…spot on! The young in our armed forces need to be very strongly educated about NOT using social media, or having mobile phones around. If I was in the forces, I’d make it a pact with my mates that we’d NEVER risk undermining each other by having our phones on when we are together. When my son first began working for a very powerful oil and gas company, the first thing I made him promise me was that he’d NEVER criticize the company on social media sites, like many of his mates did in their youthful naivety. As a retired teacher, I know there are things said about students and their parents that would horrify people if they were outed in the media…it’s human nature to let off steam and bond in particular ways…I am proud of our armed services, and overall, they are dealing with the new technological era well…give them a break!

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      12:50pm | 25/03/11

      “Are we really safe in our beds at night?”
      Yes Ben, we are. Why wouldn’t we be? Because a small group of ADF soldiers said some naughty words & made some racist comments?
      The cabbie I had yesterday had more bigoted views than these soldiers.

      Sure, it isn’t the right way to behave, but soldiers are mere mortals Ben. It is possible that not every single one of them is a stand up guy.

      Is this all we have to whinge about when talking about the ADF? In comparison to taking photos with civilian corpses, I think we’re going fine.

    • Ando says:

      12:51pm | 25/03/11

      Good article
      I support the troops 100% but cant condone this especially on Facebook and not the heat of battle. What surprises me is how much support they are getting , you can still support the troops and not the comments. They shouldn’t be sacked but there is nothing wrong with expecting more from our troops and criticizing these actions. For those who think this is PC crap I ask how are these comments helpful in any way. If troops didn’t use this language would it put them in danger or limit their effectiveness.
      It seems the general public expect more of our footballers than our troops.

    • Kate says:

      01:25pm | 25/03/11

      “Oh, I’m getting shot at!
      Fiddle-dee-dee, that rather nasty man over there is attempting to kill me with RPG! How pesky!”
      I bet you swear when you stub your toe. You HONESTLY think that you wouldn’t let fly with a few choice words in the heat of battle?! Well of course not, you wouldn’t ever be brave enough to protect your country.

      Your naivety is embarrassing. Please, for the love of all that is sacred, do not comment on this again. Go back to your little accountancy office or wherever it is that you work and keep your stupid, immature and unintelligent responses to yourself.

    • darragh scully says:

      01:56pm | 25/03/11

      Imagine if you told Kate Your Office was in Ireland.
      +2.

    • Yak of the Goldfields says:

      12:52pm | 25/03/11

      Maybe the ADF should start incorperating grooming and deportment classes for our boys on the front line. Elocution and diction will be part of their studies as ‘kick-arse killing machines’. They should be made to address the local militia with respect….. before they kill them to death.

      These are soldiers, for Ralph’s sake, not some nancy-boy sight-seeing ensemble.

    • Adrian Jackson says:

      12:55pm | 25/03/11

      A storm in a tea cup. The CDF and CGS need to get out of their offices in Canberra and listen to what really is said by average Australians as far as slang is concerned. Incidentally the most offensive institution in Australian is not the ADF but the Christian Church.

    • Levi says:

      05:41pm | 25/03/11

      “the most offensive institution in Australian is not the ADF but the Christian Church.” - Why because it conflicts with your left-wing atheist monoculture? You are less tolerant than you think fool

    • Chris T says:

      08:43pm | 25/03/11

      “The Christian Church” is not an institution, Adrian.  The Uniting Church?  The Anglicans?  What institution could you be referring to?

    • Reg says:

      10:11pm | 27/03/11

      Helping Adrian to his feet after a viscous knock-out blow by the “tired and politically emotional” Levi. Perhaps you would prefer “those who profess Christianity?” Or ... one of the others?

      (Interesting side issue.) Did you know that Hitler banned the music of the German composer Handel because many of his works were taken from the OLD Testament with its Jewish connotations?  I feel that knowing this serves as a cautionary tales when we try and make similar demarcations.  Anyhow it’s most definitely more productive than that silly non-law that serves to prevent discussing the detail of Nazi atrocities.

    • richo says:

      12:56pm | 25/03/11

      I have heard every day Australians say the exact same things, casual racism is in our nature. I don’t get why it’s different when a soldier says it. Why should they be held in higher regard then civilians? People say and do stupid things, this is one of those cases.

      If they are going to punish every Australian that says something racist, our prison systems are going to need about 21 million more beds.

    • Lozz says:

      04:09pm | 25/03/11

      They should probably be held to a higher standard than civilians because they’re given a government issued gun and permission to shoot human beings.

    • Ghost says:

      05:45pm | 25/03/11

      Lozz,

      ...and risk their lives so you can make stupid comments like this…

    • Anne_N says:

      12:57pm | 25/03/11

      Can you find out what the afghanis are calling us behind our backs, please?

    • darragh scully says:

      02:01pm | 25/03/11

      Kaffir, Infidel, Crusader, Imperialists and Westerner are all words that come to mind

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:32pm | 25/03/11

      Well Anne dear here is the thing.  They are allowed to abuse us dear because we have bombed their country to bits based on a war that was planned in the 1990’s starting with Bill Clinton and then waged with September 11 as an excuse.

      The plans for the attack had been agreed with our lovely dictator mate Pervez Mushareff in July 2001, in May 2001 the US were still sellling stinger missiles to the Taliban to beat the other side, the side of warlords, mass murderers, drug barons and others that we now love but spent years hating.

      The problem is that the Afghan people didn’t do anything to anyone but are bearing the brunt of our brutal stupidity to prop up the lying trash in the US army.

      Just like we did in Vietnam, a stupidity that led to the My Lai massacre, the deaths of 3 million civilians and more bombs dropped than during the entire 2nd world war.

      We should never, ever back the morons in the US in wars because they always lose.

      And as not one of you knows any Afghan people you would not be aware that they are incrediby proud and generous people with incredibe hospitality and kindness to anyone who treats them the sam.

      Try meeting some before you air your racist ignorance.

      Or take a ride on the Ghan and think about the Afghans who built the bloody thing.

    • Sam says:

      02:38pm | 25/03/11

      Yeah exactly if they can do it so can we, we should be exactly like them!  Oh wait isn’t the whole point of these guys being over there in the first place that we don’t have to be like them?

    • Jay Santos says:

      02:57pm | 25/03/11

      “...Or take a ride on the Ghan and think about the Afghans who built the bloody thing…”

      Dear God Marilyn, your grasp of history is as good as your command of the English language.

      Remind us ‘dear’, how many Afghani’s built this railway….BWAHAHAHA.

      Do some research next time.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      03:41pm | 25/03/11

      Marilyn, “Or take a ride on the Ghan and think about the Afghans who built the bloody thing…”

      Erm. No.

      It was named to honour Afghani camel drivers, not built by Afghanis.

      Before you start instructing people to learn about things, it’s best to check that you actually know what you’re talking about. Dear.

    • Kahuna says:

      10:20pm | 26/03/11

      Oh Marilyn take note of the comments to your reply and do some reading before you pst a comment. For a start you mention the US selling arms to the Taliban but you fail to mention the Arab countries and the Chinese sending arms and instructors to the region.
      You bring the Vietnam War into the equation but fail to mention the atrocities committed by the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong in their quest for liberation. Yes My Lai happaned but what about the massacre when the battle for Hue was waged and the North killed thousands of innocents. You fail to mention the other side to the story.
      You seem to be one of those people who are so brainwashed into thinking everything that is wrong in this world must be because of the Western world. I suggest that instead of attending one of your socialist meetings you use the time to read a little history before you show your ignorance. Oh and the remark about knowing Afghans, I actually knew a fair few when I was there in their country which I dare say you have never been to nor know do you any of its people let alone the history.

    • L. says:

      12:58pm | 25/03/11

      So…

      Rudd can call the Chinese “Rat fu-kers” and keep his job, but some soldiers, yes, soldier not diplomats, call people names that are as bad and face disciplinary action..

    • ratman says:

      01:29pm | 25/03/11

      can you provide a link to where on his facebook page he called the chinese ‘Rat Fu-kers’?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:17pm | 25/03/11

      @ratman - you’ve missed the point. Kevin Rudd’s ‘rat f**ker’ remark made it into the public domain, as did the racist remarks of these soldiers. How it was made public is irrelevant.

      Kevin Rudd as our foreign minister, a diplomat who is paid to use his words appropriately can make derogatory remarks without disciplinary action, but soldiers can’t?

    • L. says:

      02:38pm | 25/03/11

      “Kevin Rudd as our foreign minister”

      Actually, he was our PM at the time..

    • ratman says:

      02:48pm | 25/03/11

      thanks for that point then laurabobaura. i guess kevins rudd’s karma got him back in the end then didn’t it.
      for the soilders who posted their facebook comments, what do you suppose their karma is going to dish back at them?

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      03:36pm | 25/03/11

      *facedesk* L thanks for the correction. Nit picking much?

    • GRAN says:

      05:14pm | 25/03/11

      Marilyn,i cann’t believe you called these afghani people kind ,proud and generous,you’re the moron,the men beat,hang or stone women to death in the town square for no good reason most of the time, yet you think they are honourable people,i have met 3 of these so called people in the supermarket when they were abusing 2 older ladies because they felt it was their right to push the older ladies items aside so they could be served first,when people intervened the abuse these incredible kind people showed was racism beyond anything our young men would ever say,like our strong proud ADF say if you cann’t stand behind them feel free to stand in front of them,and you my dear would be the first one screaming loud and long for help when the time comes for them to protect this country,i hope you aren’t as stupid as you are making out you are ,

    • Michael says:

      12:59pm | 25/03/11

      How surprising, a group of men, in a hostile and dangerous environment, are using something like this as a coping mechanism…..

      Who’s to say that the locals do have the same attitides toward them…..

    • L. says:

      03:55pm | 25/03/11

      I believe they do, the word they call us is infidel.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      01:00pm | 25/03/11

      Oh yeah and further to my point:

      “We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

      Rough men. Not necessarily nice men.

    • Will B says:

      01:16pm | 25/03/11

      Agreed.

      Some poeple forget the only reason they can enjoy their Starbucks coffee while writing their latest novel “The Evils of the West”, is because the very institutions they despise are the very ones providing their protection.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:34pm | 25/03/11

      Will that is rubbish,  these morons are not protecting us here from anyone.

      Sheesh, you men in this country are weenie wagging little fraidy cats aren’t you.

    • Will B says:

      03:41pm | 25/03/11

      Actually Marilyn the armed forces do. From Iraq for oil, to Afghanistan to East Timor for gas, we continue and will continue to use our armed forces for foreign policy objectives that help secure resources and protecting our position in the world as those of our allies.

      If it wasn’t for “weenie wagging little fraidy cats” you’d be serving sushi to the Japanese.

      Pull your head in, world doesn’t run on fairy bread and roses. I’m sure if you were in charge of foriegn policy we would all be Chinese. I don’t follow government blindly but I’m also not ignorant to the fact that we get a lot from taking from others.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      05:17pm | 25/03/11

      Will B that is hilarious.

      We sold most of the country to Japan wihout them having to invade and every department store serves sushi in their foo malls.

      What racist crap - the Japanese had no intention of invading or occupying Australia but by your lights serving sushi seems to be something awful.

      Whle Japan is currently in the grip of a natural disaster so large no-one can get their heads around it it is quite repulsive to slag off the Japanese for things they did not do in 1942 don’t you think?

      You rest the case for those of us sick to death of the casual racist filth and belief of our superiority that so many of us are sick to death of.

    • Greg says:

      09:57pm | 25/03/11

      Marilyn, the level of your ignorance and stupidity is astonishing, even allowing for the amount of daily practice that you put in.

      “The Japanese had no intention of invading or occupying Australia”

      Really? So the bombing of Darwin was just a big misunderstanding? And the printing of money for Japanese occupied Australia was just a joke?

      And Australian soldiers should feel guilty for a few insensitive remarks, but Japanese torture and beheadings of Australian POWs should be forgotten?

      Your feeble attempts to rewrite history, in some bizzare and futile attempt to promote Marilyn Shepherd’s self perceptions of moral superiority, doesn’t cover up the fact that you are in desperate need of therapy.

      And I suppose that the Japanese earthquake is also the fault of “racist Australians” too?

      If you really want to confront racism, look in a mirror, and at the self-hating freak with the crazed expression who returns your vacant stare.

    • Paul Horn says:

      10:00pm | 25/03/11

      Dear Mr Wadham why did you not post my last comment? Why do you gutlessly censor me and yet allow Marilyn unfettered prIvelige to spew lies and filthy deceit?

      Marilyn dear just what the hell are you on? The Japanese bombed the living bejesus out of Darwin in WW2 and almost reached Port Moresby before being repelled by Australian and American forces.

      Do you consider Australians racist for defending our shores against bombardment? Should we have waved the white flag and joined our fellow Aussies as POW’s? Starved, beaten, left to die in filth?

      The Japanese intent was to dominate all of South East Asia including us you fool! The only reason they did not plan to invade was not bacause of some enlightenend liberal view of humanity but because invading a nation our size would be a logistical nightmare!! 

      However it was a very very serious consideration http://www.ozatwar.com/japsland/invade01.htm

    • Bennymac says:

      12:16am | 26/03/11

      Marilyn,
      “it it is quite repulsive to slag off the Japanese for things they did not do in 1942 don’t you think?”

      The attack on pearl harbour,
      The invasion of,(not in order)
      Thailand,
      Hong Kong,
      Dutch east indies,
      Solomon Islands,
      Philipines,
      Malaysia,
      Burma,
      Singapore,
      Bali,
      Timor,
      New Guinea,
      The bombing of darwin,

      Thats a awful lot of effort to drop in for a sunday roast, or a lovely cup of tea.

      Here is a lovely bedtime story that offers a alternative to the sushi angle that you find so offensive, were an invasion of Australia to have taken place.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Nanking

      I know that burying ones head in a steaming pile of political correctness, mungbeans, and sand can be a effective coping mechanism for things one finds abhorrent, unfortunately, if too many Australian’s are down there with you, it leaves our collective asses waving in the wind, just waiting to get bitten.

    • Huey says:

      01:04pm | 25/03/11

      Joined in 65, had a 40 year reunion all the old jargon and group language/attitudes came flowing back. Pretty sure not one of the sixty odd blokes there maintains that outlook. It’s a young mans thing… let’s not be so willing to be shocked that that we throw out the baby with the bathwater. We rely on them to do an important and dangerous job..Groupspeak not p.c. So what? Maybe a bit of Self-censorship on Face book would keep wowsers quiet.

    • Markus says:

      01:41pm | 25/03/11

      The self-censorship is the only thing I can really think this deserves. Give them a slap on the wrist for stupidly putting something like that up on a public Facebook profile, then teach them to write in in private, or better yet just keep the opinion amongst themselves.

      They have enough to worry about without having their own country calling for their heads over some bad words.

    • gman says:

      01:05pm | 25/03/11

      This is war people. Johnny-turk (WW1), Jerry (WW2), Nogs (Vietnam), etc are just nick-names given to help de-humanise the enemy and deal with the harsh brutality of their environment.

      The reality of the situation is, a word is just a word and these soldiers will be made to apologise and most likely be either summarily discharged from the military or censured. Had the genuine intent been to harm, a bullet wouldn’t have been as easy to retract.

    • ratman says:

      01:49pm | 25/03/11

      yes words and words do not harm unless used to incide more voilence and hatred.
      i wouldn’t be surprised if any one or all of the turks, wogs, nips, japs, rag heads, krauts, nazi’s, jew’s, slopes, sepo’s, pom, curries etc that populate the great land of skips / oz decided to give up and say why bother, f’em all they don’t like us we shouldn’t try to like them. bring on the anarcy!!
      if you’re not intrested in stopping the minor issues while you can, then you should prepare for the eventual and total breakdown of socieity when it happens.

    • Ethel Sidebottom says:

      03:20pm | 25/03/11

      Exactly. Because you need to de-humanise the enemy, or they suddenly become people. And while killing the enemy is good, killing people is bad.

    • Jay Santos says:

      01:05pm | 25/03/11

      Was anyone screaming when the Allies were bombing Gerry and the Krauts in Europe?  Or the “Japs” in the Pacific?

      What about charlie and the chinks in ‘Nam?

      Stop being so precious.

      There are bigger issues in the world than this one.

    • Sizzle Chest says:

      01:07pm | 25/03/11

      Yeah, I’m sure the Afganis don’t use any naughty names toward foreigners. They are above reproach, beacons of all that is good and just. Never a bad word about anyone.
      Untwist your little knickers Ben.

    • Will says:

      01:07pm | 25/03/11

      Having some close mates that have served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can confidently say I have the utmost admiration and respect for our armed forces. The burden placed upon them, not only while on deployment but also for the rest of their lives, is something us civilians will never understand.

      When I read about the facebook posts and language those guys used, it does make me feel a little embarressed and uneasy, because it does reflect poorly on the Army and the great job our defence personel do.

      However I think it needs to be put in perspective. This issue is not unique to the military, it is a social issue that effects all facets of our society. Slurs of racial and sexual nature are evident in many other institutions.

      The Facebook posts were not appropriate, they are offensive, but they do not accurately reflect the Defence Force or the job they are doing in Afghanistan.

      Whether it be retail chains, football clubs or even parliament, there will always be Australians that say or do stupid things.

      The media just bash it for a headline. It is what it is, discipline the boys, look at further education but in terms of questioning the mission of the Defence Force, get over it and move on.

    • Seanr says:

      01:23pm | 25/03/11

      Yes some further media education needs to be done for all the troops something along the lines of:
      “look I know you’re venting but be careful what you put up on the internet because guaranteed some toe rag civvie ‘expert’ is going to crap on you and the ADF from a great height at the slightest opportunity.”

    • NSW says:

      01:13pm | 25/03/11

      Rover of North Cooma says - Unless he goes to Cooma! Cos if you can’t get laid there then you oughta give up.

    • James says:

      01:18pm | 25/03/11

      As an former member of the ADF, you should know better.
      I’m going to say that you’ve never served on the front line. Safe assumption? I think so.

      Quite frankly, as far as I’m concerned, our soliders can call the Taliban (to which most of these comments refer) whatever they damn well want.

      Sticks and stones may break my bones
      But a well placed Taliban IED will blow you up.

      And then the Taliban shall dance about their fields witht the leg of a blown- up Australian soldier. And you’re concerned we are calling them

      What the he’ll is wrong with you?

      You bloody bleeding hearts make me SICK.

    • AdamC says:

      01:57pm | 25/03/11

      James, I think what many commenters are concerned about is that these sorts of confected ‘scandals’ (trivial as they are) may affect the image of the ADF, Australia and, most importantly, core missions like the one in Afghanistan. So, in essence, they can call the Taliban whatever they want, so long as they are not in a position to be used to create a headline at their emplyer’s expense.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:56pm | 25/03/11

      AdamC - how many people in Afghanistan do you really think will see it, honestly? I’m sure they’re a lot more concerned about stray missiles & bullets than they are about a couple of kids posting stupid shit on facebook.

    • AdamC says:

      03:44pm | 25/03/11

      @LauraB, they’ll hear about it, alright. Even if they don’t have access to a telephone, let alone the internet. This is a war, remember, and propaganda is an indispensable tool. Our enemies will find any way to attack us.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      04:32pm | 25/03/11

      But then what will happen Adam, if the Taliban manages to spread this, the Afghanis will start hating us? They don’t even like us now.

      The only reason they tolerate us is because the alternative is worse.
      Like I said in a post above, how well did ‘winning the hearts and minds’ work in Vietnam? It was an utter failure. But people don’t start supporting the Taliban because some soldier showed poor judgement & called them a ‘dune coon’.
      They do it when we inadvertantly kill their family.

      Also, like I said above, I would like to believe that building roads, connecting electricity & building schools & hospitals in Afghanistan would count for a lot more than a couple of soldiers posting stupid shit on the internet, don’t you?

      Just for the record though, I think the soldiers behaved badly & I’m not condoning what they’ve done. But this is a storm in a teacup IMO.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      05:12pm | 25/03/11

      They are not the frigging Taliban, you would not have a clue.

      The US have stated endlessly that there are about 5,000 people we loosely call the “taliban”, talib simply means student, the other 29 million Afghans have nothing to do with anything.

      Except they are being occupied and bombed.

      And who started the so-called Taliban?  Bill Clinton and Benazir Bhuotto and the Pakistani secret serviced formed them with the help of Saudi and Israel and Egypt to get rid of the murderous thugs that are now the government.

      Some of you non beating hearts should find out facts before calling others names.

      Not one Afghan has hurt one Australian in Australia, not one Afghan has jailed an Australian child, or tear gassed them or fired rubber bullets at them.

    • Cuppa says:

      01:21pm | 25/03/11

      Want to see real racism Ben? Be white & take a walk through Lakemba.These soldiers have nothing on the tribal racist minorities we seem to be importing in droves.The same minorities these soldiers are fighting for because they are to cowardly & backward to do it themselves.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:21pm | 25/03/11

      BS I used to walk through Lakemba, Auburn & Lidcombe all the time without issue.

    • RickyB says:

      03:12pm | 25/03/11

      I dont believe you Laura.Considering some of the violent, racist crap i have seen there i think you ar full of it.Or maybe invisible.

    • Loz says:

      04:14pm | 25/03/11

      RickyB, I live in the area and like Laura, I’ve never experienced any problems. Some of the friendliest people I’ve come across, actually.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      04:15pm | 25/03/11

      Ricky, I don’t mind if you don’t believe me, it’s true. I have a few friends that live there & we used to drink at the Lakemba Hotel all the time & never once, did we have any problems.
      Most of the crap that goes on there is gang related, and seeing as though I am not in gang, I never seemed to have a problem.

      Auburn is 100% better than it used to be.

    • Army Wife says:

      01:21pm | 25/03/11

      If you have been in the army then you would know that everyone is known by a nickname rather than their real name. Usually it is something to do with their name, race, colour of their hair, characteristics etc. It is not normally meant offensively, and generally taken in good humour. With the sorts of stress these guys are under, is it any wonder they are using names like this. All units have an equity and diversity officer these days and do stamp on genuine racism or overt sexism. I know as my husband is one in addition to his normal job in the army.
      As for the comments about the “ranga” on the news this morning, their favourite name for our esteemed PM, that gave me the best laugh I have had all day!

    • Mark says:

      01:24pm | 25/03/11

      It begs the question why we send men of such young age into incredibly volatile situations where immature acts which seem insignificant at the time can have long reaching political and social consequences.  Surely knowing how to fire an automatic weapon is only a small part of the game.

      There’ll always be a social separation between military personnel and civilians, but why aren’t unit leaders on the ground with these young guys leading by example and disciplining anyone who goes too far?

    • Steve says:

      01:52pm | 25/03/11

      Mark,

      we send young men and women because they are more moldable into uniform soldiers and team members, they generally have less to lose (like spouses, kids, mortgages), they have less concern for personal injury and greater williness to take risks.

      Also, being young, they have the physical and mental capacity to continue combat operations long after 40 year olds would have collapsed. 

      As to your second point, perhaps their unit leaders (who are trying to run a war on little time and less sleep) don’t see the value in being bothered about discipling a young man - who may well be dead tomorrow - over a less than respectful attitude towards the community that contains people trying to kill him..

      Haven’t seen the facebook pages, but my only worry about this story is that the soldiers were niave enough to allow cameras and video recorders near them, and to have foolishly made the Facebook posts.

    • Kate says:

      01:31pm | 25/03/11

      Dear Ben,

      I often get angry reading some of the articles on this site. I don’t know why I do it. Some form of self-tortue, no doubt.
      Anyway, this article has inspired such anger in me I cannot even tell you.
      Who are YOU to comment on the language used by soldiers…who have been or ARE in the middle of a war?
      Are you REALLY concerned with the language they’re using, or are you just attempting to jump onto the moral high horse to make yourself look more noble? It’s sickening, quite frankly.
      Unless you are there yourself, being shot at by people TRYING TO KILL YOU then I recommend you keep your opinions to yourself. Until you are there, on the front line, you have no say in what is appropriate and what is not.  Until you are there, you have no idea how you personally would react in a similar situation, do you?
      There is obviously a reason you got out of the ADF - you couldn’t handle it.

      Regards,
      Kate

    • Gregg says:

      01:57pm | 25/03/11

      @ Kate,
      Hey you need to be more cool with an article like this and not let anger build.
      Ben like some authors do may have given his view right at the end in hoping for a better image but in general he is just reporting the facts and the comments of a Major as hopeless as those comments may be and you can see my own post on that.

      He may be right in that a lot of people could be dumbfounded or embarassed but that also is just his thought and whether or not they are will be determined by how sjeltered and an ignorant life they lead.

      Stay cool.

    • Duff says:

      02:04pm | 25/03/11

      “Who are YOU to comment on the language used by soldiers…who have been or ARE in the middle of a war?”

      HE is an ex-soldier, ex-military police officer who now studies this very issue for a living.  That’s who. 

      Here’s a better question: who are YOU and what makes you think you know better than HE?

    • darragh scully says:

      02:15pm | 25/03/11

      Dear Kate, the whole reason they are publishing this is because it helps to support the Zeitgeist Protracted war theory. The truth of the matter is that every time something like this gets published it just adds strength to the Taliban. Thats a plus 2 for the enemy. Most of the soldiers are just people doing a job whom otherwise would be people like you or me. Were not really on a crusade like the enemy tries to make us think. We want to bring stability to a region that is oppressed by our standards anyway which tend to be global. Another global standard these days is not to be racist which is another +2 situation for the social unrest at home go figure. As it turns out racism like this is a +4 situation for the enemy. Most people wont here what I say in the heat of the battle unless of course somone youtubes it which has been known to happen. You have to aggree troopers should not be racist on facebook. There is a good old saying, be careful what you say, the enemie might be listening.

    • Steve says:

      02:25pm | 25/03/11

      Nice type you are Kate,
      I’m also a former member of the ADF having served 3 years, and in the infantry. As a former soldier like myself I believe Ben has every right to “comment on the language used by soldiers”.
      Unlike your good self I’d wager, Ben served his country, in part so “life support systems for a vagina” (that’s ok yeah?) like you can contribute your drivel to issues such as this one.
      I spent 3 years in the Army and I both participated in (to my shame) and witnessed disgusting racism, sexism and homophobism, in fact queer bashing in my time was treated as a sport. There are many many good decent human beings in our Armed Forces, there are also plenty who would be in jail if it weren’t for the Army. I can assure you I worked alongside men who would have turned guns on Australian civilians if they were ordered to, and at the time I would probably have been one of them.
      You can fool yourself into believing that the ADF is crammed full of benevolent altruists if you like, I know that’s not the case.

    • James1 says:

      02:45pm | 25/03/11

      Kate’s right.  Instead of focusing on their language, you should have focused on what their terrible judgement says about their intelligence.  That is the real scary thing here.  We give these men guns, yet they do not possess enough smarts to realise posting racist stuff on Facebook is stupid.  Scary stuff.

      Furthermore, it makes the ADF look stupid, which is a long, long way from my experience of our soldiers.  They are one of the most intelligent, well trained, and thoughtful armed forces around, and have a reputation in line with that.  Stupidity like this diminishes that reputation.

    • Reg says:

      02:00pm | 27/03/11

      Before WWII when Hitler demanded of his troops be utterly cruel and merciless, they obeyed. The Allies were never going to win by taking a more gentlemanly approach. They had to match and exceed the cruelty of the enemy in order to win.

      I would suggest that nothing has changed and that any official attempt to project an image of Australian troops as more noble than the enemy, is to suggest they are doing less than their best. These young soldiers are simply stealing the thunder of those who wish to project an image more suitable for public consumption.

    • stephen says:

      01:31pm | 25/03/11

      I expect the ADF will quiz the Taliban to ensure a reciprocal measure of decorum.
      ‘These dirty stinking squat-arsed towel-headed hairy-faced ....
      There, now I’ve said it.
      ‘(And yer old lady smokes a pipe !!)’ Sorry, had ter get that one in.
      Now they can call us ‘freckle-faced, bone-headed bible-bashing scum-bagged saviours of men, women and children.
      All bullets now shall be paper-mache, hand signals not to be used with a thrusting motion,and tea and coffee for the enemy is to be posted up the night before. Army personnell shall in future ensure that no blasphemy will echo over the hills and valleys of battle, for it is now what we say in war that matters, not what we do.
      (We can still buy a mass of dud subs, but lo and behold, don’t ever say…‘we told you so.’)

    • Jasper says:

      01:32pm | 25/03/11

      I’m surprised that no one has mentioned that the forces we are fighting have internet access as well, what propaganda use do we all think that they are going to get out this?

      How is this going to affect the battle for hearts & minds in Afghanistan?

      Doesn’t anyone, especially the soldiers writing this stuff, realise how much harder this is likely to make the job in Afghanistan?

      Offence aside, it is the total operational stupidity that these comment represent that astounds me.

    • Call'emwhateveryouwant says:

      01:47pm | 25/03/11

      Jasper,

      Let’s be clear here. These comments were on social media.
      Many Aghan people (especially those associated with the Taliban) have access to mobiles, obviously. However, many of them do not have access to electricity and thus have to travel to the townships to charge their phones.

      I am relatively (....and where I say relatively I mean entirely) sure they aren’t regularly accessing Facebook, finding Australian soliders and then exploding with rage. “He called me WHAT!? Oh, that is it. I was only kidding around before! Now I’m REALLY going to try to kill them.”

      Can you see how silly your comments seem, in retrospect?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      01:53pm | 25/03/11

      I agree. This is a counterinsurgency. The objective is to win hearts and minds, not alienate them. The next “dune coon” or “sand niggaz” that you piss off is probably going to tip off the Taliban to where your patrol is headed or join the Taliban as a new recruit. Don’t they teach soldiers these days anything about psychological operations, communications security or operational security?

    • Anne_N says:

      03:03pm | 25/03/11

      I doubt those words were intended to be directed back to the afghanis.  Soldiers have always used derogatory terms for the enemy as a means of dehumanising them, and this type of personal jargon is intended to protect their own psychological wellbeing in the face of a difficult act.

      It was stupid to post it on Facebook.

    • Jasper says:

      03:57pm | 25/03/11

      So Mr ‘Call’emwhateveryouwant’ you don’t think that the Taliban won’t make an effort to make sure that Afghan civilians are aware of what the Diggers “really” think of them?

      The Afghans themselves don’t have to go looking for this; our actual enemies will make damn sure that the Afghan public will know.

      What you don’t seem to realise is that Islamic fundamentalists are very good at using the internet as a weapon in the propaganda war, they’ve been using it to spread their ideology and POV for 10 years.

      If you don’t believe that these comments will be picked-up & repackaged (probably by tenuously connecting it to the abhorrent photo scandal involving US troops) then you are more naive than you accuse me of being.

    • Gregg says:

      01:36pm | 25/03/11

      I reckon Ben that you’ve kind of got the article topsy turvy for near the end
      ” And that is where the part of the answer lies. “
      Do you really think there is answer that we would want when in fact
      ” “We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
      You have described well the ” metaphorical bunker ” with its isolation and the attitudes, activities and language that can get used, the you’re with us or agin us bonding etc.

      It would be hard if not impossible to determine how it all rates in comparison from WW1 through WW2 , Korea, Vietnam to now but what is easy to rate is the changes in society.
      The wars are different and even Korea and Vietnam are different in some concepts to involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      Are people different too? and I suspect vastly so for in the years from WW1 to post WW2 for a decade or so, it was definitely a different style of living where people did not have so much on offer and making an quick buck was not as prevalent.
      We do just not have the experience of deprivations of more than a half century and longer ago.

      And then of course in the last couple of decades, the online communications mean it is all out there as per
      ” Social networking, digital photography and ICT in the contemporary era has made it harder and harder to hide. “

      And yes ” to hide ” or hidden is key.
      And what is laughable is not so much:
      ” The Commonwealth spends significant amount of taxpayers’ dollars to investigate and run inquiries into military indiscretions. Every decade since has been marked by bullying, racism, the sexual degradation of women, and a culture of alcoholism. “

      but

      ’ Major General Paul Symon explains:
      I struggle to understand, with all the training that we do and with the quality of soldiers that we have, that that sort of language has been posted.
      If he is perplexed, the community is dumbfounded, and betrayed. As a nation we so want to celebrate the hard work and sacrifice of our boys. “

      The Major is very typical of how people are generally far removed from the realities of life for:
      ” These rough men are boys, with a great burden, and ! “
      For rough and trained to be tough they may be but boys! and I think there could be some educators and philosophers who might just agree that there is only so much that can be trained into even men.

      The Major may also need to re-appreciate that there is separation between commissioned and non-commissioned and that applies far more so, the higher the commissioned may become.

      I do not know that all the community is dumbfounded nor betrayed and I would hardly even think the majority is embarassed for many will realise that rough talk goes with being subjected to rough conditions.
      We may not like it but it is far better to know it happens and not have our heads in the sand over it.

      If we want it that way, the training message loud and strong ought to be, you will have your own cocoon of language but keep that off facebook, twitter and the like.

    • Andrew says:

      07:01pm | 25/03/11

      It is Major General Gregg. He is the Deputy Chief of the Army. Got it?

      Go and look at COIN and the Strategic Corporal.

      Having been non-commissioned and currently commissioned, I can assure you I am appalled by these remarks. 

      There are reasons why young soldiers do not run wars, and this a good example of one reason. Lack of judgement.

    • Benwadham says:

      11:28pm | 25/03/11

      This is a sensible response, thanks. I don’t agree with your conclusion but the rest was interesting, thanks

    • Gregg says:

      03:10am | 26/03/11

      @Andrew,
      So he is MG and Deputy Chief and that just means he is further removed from conflict.
      You can be apalled and I’ve not said that young soldiers ought to be running wars but where it counts their judgement can have a huge effect on their lives and that of others.
      What they may have on facebook may not be what a lot of people want to read and some will be concerned about but if it does not detract from what they are doing, so be it for it’s reality.

    • Skatman says:

      01:37pm | 25/03/11

      Aussie soldiers being typical Aussie’s - it’s part of OUR culture. The Taliban don’t exactly treat there own people with much respect,  23 young Australians have given up their lives to free Afghanistan of the Taliban and other terrorist groups, what a crying shame. If the Afghani’s are offended by these flippant remarks then the ADF should pack up shop and bring our boys home, NOW.

    • Martin says:

      01:37pm | 25/03/11

      The media is really pathetic, what a beat up.

      First, if I go onto Facebook I will always come across slang descriptions of other people. It happens across countries and groups and some of it I am surprise about but I know some of the people using some of the terms are not racist, just dumb.

      Second, in the heat of battle this is the type of language almost all soldiers use. Watch any long form documentary from Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Most average people would be shocked by comments, language and slurs in the heat of battle, bullets flying and adrenaline pumping. Does it make them a racist? No, it is a natural reaction and relief mechanism.

      Secondly, there is the same number of racists in politics, police, media and general public as there is in the Defence Forces - no more, no less.

      Thirdly, how is this different to the common slang used by media, politicians AND soldiers from all sides during WWII? Some slang terms which were considered derogatory - Krauts, Jerrys, Huns, Nips, Slanty Eyes, Dingbats, Dagos, Limies…I can go on and on.

      Grow up media, seriously.

    • Lisa H. says:

      10:10pm | 26/03/11

      I agree. I really can’t understand why the media took this and ran??!
      I mean, my husband uses much rougher language when he’s watching footy on a Saturday night.
      I’ve heard much worse language used by drunken people waiting for a cab after a big night out.
      I understand groups of men involved in sporting teams, building sites, mines etc can also use bad or derogatory language at times.
      These are soldiers deployed.
      Soldier swears and uses derogatory language…where’s the story?
      Raping civilians, killing innocents - agreed - big problem… but childish school yard taunts…?
      The journalists responsible for this beat-up are the real embarrassment.
      If bad language leads to other ‘attitude problems’ within the armed forces, really that is an internal matter. It’s not an international news story.

    • james milton says:

      01:39pm | 25/03/11

      They risk their lives.

      Their only mistake was putting in on facebook.

      So they say naughty words. Big f**king deal. Seriously.

    • Ex-ADF Lady says:

      01:41pm | 25/03/11

      General Cosgrove, chief of Defence between 2002 and 2005, says the “silly” comments need to be kept in proportion.  He says the soldiers are putting their lives on the line for Afghans and deserve no more than a “slap on the wrist”.

      “I think by their deeds they belie the few comments that have been posted,” he said.  “Every time they go outside the wire they are targets and they accept that cheerfully.

      “I think in Australia, across the board, there are racist elements, sadly. I don’t think the Defence Force is anything other than a microcosm of the wider society.

      “I think they should be counselled - but that’s a matter for the Army.

      “Remember that these kids are actually, by their deeds, showing they see a worthwhile mission for which they’re prepared to accept great danger.”

      BRING BACK COSGROVE (And common sense)

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      01:46pm | 25/03/11

      Surely arguing (as a few have) that it’s OK because ‘they’ do worse undermines the whole point of Australia being in Afghanistan?

      We are there because we don’t think the Al Qaida or the Taliban way is the way forward, and because we think there’s a better way, so surely we do that by setting an example on human decency and tolerance?

      It’s the same argument that also comes up about the burqa - we should ban it here because if we went to Saudi Arabia they’d make us conform to their ‘standards’.

      School yard stuff, really. Aw but he did it first!

    • Kate says:

      01:52pm | 25/03/11

      Yeah, but you’re a bit of a hippy anyway Tory. I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about.  These soldiers have been at war. You’ve been at a computer.

    • stephen says:

      01:59pm | 25/03/11

      No..what I mean is that it does not matter what is said in the heat of battle.
      If an Admiral, in the comfort of a command-centre, wants to slide his warships across a glass table and then sotto voce say, ‘blasted gippos, I say bomb’em all !’, that don’t matter either.
      War is an unusual state of affairs, and unusual modes of behavoiur should be tolerated. If we are thorough gentlemen of the battlerfield, hell, we may even get used to it !

    • Gregg says:

      02:18pm | 25/03/11

      I think Tory it is a bit hard to associate the two and as much as I feel for women wearing the Burqua, a banning of it is kind of going to be an infringement on personal choice for many.

      Likewise, if military people or for that matter anyone chooses to use certain language, we do subscribe to freedom of speech.
      We may not like some of it and the military hierachy may attempt to do something about it being out there in the public domain but soldiers experiencing or having experienced combat/conflict are certainly in or have been in a much different environment to what most of us hopefully will ever be and fortunately so.

      That is not to support particular language use but merely indicating an appreciation of why so.
      As for setting an example of human decency and tolerance, whilst that may also be somewhere on the agenda, it is probably on the back burner when your life could be threatened at any time and it is that which will likely keep use of language there, language in itself not always connected with activity traits.
      Some people can talk real rough but be a real softie underneath and football coaches are a great example of that.
      You could do far worse than Kevin Sheedy’s ” Stand Your Ground ” for some very simple analogies.

      I do not know that every soldier has too much of the ” What are we there for ” on his mind, even though many of them may be associated with attempting to do good things for communities there.
      I spoke with a young officer shortly before his going to Afghanistan and it was interesting to hear that whilst part of the predeployment training was to have an overview on Afghanistan including the ” Why ” that was certainly not to the fore and an attitude prevails of a soldier is deployed to do as the government decides.
      That attitude is I suspect even more entrenched with those officers lead.

    • Rev says:

      02:19pm | 25/03/11

      I don’t agree with Gregg, but do you honestly think racist comments on a website is going to undermine our peace and love mission in Afghanistan? 

      I think the Afghanis would be a tad more worried about off-target bombs, unexploded munitions, raids on innocents and outright murders than a couple of bigots.

    • Steve says:

      02:25pm | 25/03/11

      So why isn’t the decent and tolerant stuff reported so we can see these actions in the overall context of what our troops have achieved. You have lobbed the burqa ban hand grenade into the room but I was noddintg my head in agreement. I agree that the Saudi’s should preserve there culture just as much as Australia has a right to preserve our culture. I would,t go to a country if I couldn’t put up with their norms.

    • tombowler says:

      02:27pm | 25/03/11

      I think I love you Kate. Drink after work?

    • Anne_N says:

      02:35pm | 25/03/11

      @Tory….the whole point of Australia being in Afghanistan…

      Oh pleeeeze, we’re only there because the americans told us to.

    • Steve says:

      01:57pm | 25/03/11

      Lucky Wadham became a journalist not a soldier. The “job” of a jouralist is to basically report the faults of others.  He should have focused on how PC has got so far out of control that senior military figures are prepared to sacrifice soldiers just to head off the media. That is what is shocking in this story.

    • C Paul says:

      02:01pm | 25/03/11

      Let’s face it, most off those foot soldiers aren’t the most educated peos
      people on this planet. A lot come from broken families, bogan suburbs etc . Not surprised.

    • Tom says:

      02:27pm | 25/03/11

      what a ridiculous comment - your an absolute clown.

    • Brian B says:

      04:07pm | 25/03/11

      Can’t let such an ignorant comment pass unchallenged C Paul old mate.

      You have no idea of the complex qualifications, discipline and training required to run the ADF and this includes the infantry.

      A lot of professional civilian people also come from broken homes and bogan suburbs.

      Also check the English and grammar in your post - appalling.

    • carlz says:

      07:15pm | 25/03/11

      1. yes, these specific individuals are bogans- doesnt mean the ADF as a whole is, but its true alot of them do come from redneck families. Perfectly nice people but not very well read travelled or educated. Hence they know nothing about complex sitations e.g. Afghanistan and can only size up the situation as good guys and bad guys/ protecting our way of life (wtf?)

      2) Last time i checked the Taliban which the West supported during the 80s didnt plan on invading Australia- how is this now some sort of legitimate excuse for the war over there?? We were never under threat!!!  The poor average Afghan , who not only had to live through years of war against the soviets, then the brutality of the Taliban and now in the middle of a war against the West, These people are humans just like you and I !

      3. Having been around quite a few soldiers i can personally attest to the fact that a lot of them think of tours of duty in $$$$$ only. Stuff helping afghans or ‘protecting’ aussie ways of life, its a massive cash cow to them, ” if i go there for 8 months its 120 grand in the bank! etc etc!!!

    • jamie says:

      07:53pm | 25/03/11

      C Paul,

      spoken like someone who has never served. Your ignorance and stereotyping does you no credit.

      I’ve got an applied science degree and an arts degree and served for four years in Infantry and two years ground defence RAAF.

      I’m now middle management in the APS. Hardly an uneducated bogan from a broken family.

      And my son has just joined the army.

      By the way, your grammar and spelling is appalling.

    • Malleeringneck says:

      02:04pm | 25/03/11

      The only thing I find stupid or offensive, and it is not just the soldiers but many younger people today, is that they put all their thoughts on media eg. facebook, twitter were it can be read not by just their freinds but everyone.
      Stephanie Rice for instance lost lots of money because of the same stupid revealing of her private thoughts.
      They should teach a bit about libel in schools.

    • Maginthatey says:

      03:37pm | 25/03/11

      Top comment Malleeringneck - A recent survey done by facebook showed that only 28% of the respondents had actually read the “terms & conditions”  in relation to privacy and security. let alone the legalities Etc.

    • Steve says:

      02:06pm | 25/03/11

      Tory,

      I have never found a clear purpose for the western troops to be still in Afghanistan, or at least one purpose that coherently reflects reality. 

      I know why the troops went in, but what they are now trying to achieve is not to change Afghanistan for the better, just deny the Taliban a military victory.

      The West is not in Afghanistan to make it safer for women or minorities, or to increase decency and tolerance.  If you put that proposition to the Afghan population, it would be rejected. 

      Whatever tolerance the Afghans have for the West’s military forces comes from the fact the Taliban would be very unpleasent to have in charge.

    • Zaf says:

      02:18pm | 25/03/11

      Australian soldiers will stop being racist when the society that produces them stops containing racists.  Focusing just on the soldiers is silly, because their behaviour tells us something about our own society.  Don’t shoot the messenger.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:24pm | 25/03/11

      “the refugees (navy test target)”? - you putrid trash.  And nothing has changed has it.

      Not a recognition of human beings still among the fucking navy, the army or the cowards using rubber bullets and tear gas on people trapped behind a 2- foot fence with nothing but stones.

      Sort of the Israel mentality towards Palestinians in the Gaza concentration camp.

      When an army is supposed to be mentoring and training Afghans and befriending them to make their country better and safer using this crap and killing them in their beds is hardly useful is it.

      These days the dregs are joining up only to go and kill innocent people in a non-war that started when the snivelling little freaks were in grade 7.

      With all the hellish mess in Afghanistan and Iraq caused by us and our mate Dubya and that moron Bliar we still can’t find a hint of humanity either towards ordinary Afghans and Iraqis or those who flee.

      The little cowards are not protecting us from anyone, they are just racist cowards.

    • brian m says:

      02:53pm | 25/03/11

      Marilyn, I can only suggest that the term “life support system…...” is totally appropriate in your case. You certainly don’t appear to have a functioning brain.

    • James1 says:

      02:56pm | 25/03/11

      As long as you continue to use namecalling as a response, you’re not a whole lot better.

    • AdamC says:

      03:41pm | 25/03/11

      @James1, I think Mad Maz’s particular skill is in her unique combination of dizzying self-righteousness, terrible language and general incoherence. She is so evocative. I can see her in my mind, foaming at the mouth, wailing incomprehensibly and throwing cats at passers-by.

      (I guess that is name-calling. Oh well, I don’t so much mind being in the company of ADF personnel, even ones that have made poorly-judged, inappropriate remarks.)

    • Wynston Cruso says:

      04:12pm | 25/03/11

      I think I’m now about 2 per cent dumber having read your post Marilyn, thanks.

    • Brian B says:

      04:57pm | 25/03/11

      Well done Marilyn - You’ve just let down the entire female side of humanity.

    • stephen says:

      05:10pm | 25/03/11

      ...‘functionion brain, Brian M ?
      I was thinking of ‘fucking brain’.

    • Ben Wadham says:

      11:41pm | 25/03/11

      Can I split my guts at this thread. I may let the image of the posturing academic down but what a belly laugh. I didn’t understand a word of it.

    • Reg says:

      07:40pm | 27/03/11

      All you male chauvinist pigs, front and centre. You’re about to be conscripted.  smile  But no, we’ve had that argument haven’t we.

      These days we expect each individual soldier to bear the responsibility of his volunteering. Is that so that every Australian civilian can point at his foolishness and wash his hands of any direct responsibility? Not quite but worth considering. 

      Most are there simply because they’re immature, so why should you expect then to project an adult maturity? The older you are AND the less supportive you are of their frailty, the more responsible you are for their welfare. The sudden onset of maturity on the battlefield can produce some pointed responses and Facebook is an avenue by which that frailty may be displayed, what-ever the age.  They’re guilty of being young, nothing else.

    • Eskimo says:

      02:31pm | 25/03/11

      This article doesn’t discuss calling the PM ‘fing ranga’. Apparently that’s only offensive if you have a placard campaigning against the Carbon Tax.

    • Sam says:

      02:35pm | 25/03/11

      What do you expect? Whenever large groups of men get together they tend to resort to a pack mentality and become a bit feral, you see everywhere in male dominated areas of life.

    • L. says:

      02:47pm | 25/03/11

      Has anyone stopped to think that in a country where running water and indoor plumbing is the exception rather than the rule, perhaps the Afghans do smell..??

    • Wynston Cruso says:

      02:47pm | 25/03/11

      Oh I’m sure they wouldn’t have nasty names for us would they? And if they did, we wouldn’t hear about it.

    • bigmuzz says:

      02:54pm | 25/03/11

      what a media beat-up, this kind of thing happens with most groups of guys anywhere in the world. go out to any pub tonight and i’m sure you’ll hear a lot worse things than this (and those people won’t be under the constant threat of death like the soldiers are!)

    • NSW says:

      02:54pm | 25/03/11

      I think Kate is the one that’s drunk! She probably dated a guy for two months that managed to make it through Kapooka and now is an expert on what its like on a “front line”. Tell me Kate - How are they “protecting our country”? Can you explain why we have troops there? Isn’t it a war whe TWO armies are fighting? Can I take you out for icecream?

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:20pm | 25/03/11

      Ben, as a researcher, could you tell me what Australian civilians colloquially call Afghani’s or indeed any other Muslim or person who looks Middle Eastern? Would they be more offensive than ‘smelly’ or the US ‘Dune Coon’?? ‘Rag Heads’ is in use all across society. What makes you think these terms are the exclusive property of a couple of Diggers on Facebook?

      As an ex Digger you’d know that Smoofty C#$% is the far more likely version being thrown around by Digs

      What do civilians call homosexual people? Pillow Biter would be dead set polite compared to many of the terms I have heard thrown around over the years.

      What do civilians call black people? What about Indians? How About Asians? Lets try nationalities then - how about American? Pomgolian..I mean British? Seth Efricans? Filthy Kiwi’s…I mean New Zealanders?

      So what this article is saying is that the Australian Soldier is NO DIFFERENT whatsover to Australian society in his attitude toward the world around him. Other than the fact he’s actually seen the world around him in a way no civilian ever would.

      As soon as I saw this news come up I thought to myself - ‘He we go. Arsewipes in the ‘meeja’ are going to make this into something purely so they too can have their ‘Rogue Soldiers’ headline like Tory tried the other day.

      You know what Ben, and Tory (cause I know you won’t be able to help looking at the comments after the other day), if making a comment on Facebook, of all things, saying someone is ‘smelly’ or using American slang words or clicking ‘like’ on a comment by a couple of Diggers is the best the media can come up with as ‘Rogue Soldiers’, while at the same time other armies are dealing with horrific and depraved war crimes including Rapes and Murders, then I for one and damned glad we have the men and women we do wearing our uniform.

      For the couple of idiots who posted the comments, use your effing brains. You’ve embarrassed yourselves, your mates and your unit.

    • rick says:

      04:02pm | 25/03/11

      You forget that some of ours are being charged with murder.Time to get the hell out!

    • TheRealDave says:

      05:09pm | 25/03/11

      For defending themselves in a firefight and throwing a grenade through a window that someone was shooting at them from. Not planning and executing civilians for shits and giggles. There is a massive moral difference.

      The ‘trials’ here are a farce which I think is more for show, as in ‘see, we do investigate any allegations properly’ rather than any actual malice or planned murder.

    • Ben Wadham says:

      10:51pm | 25/03/11

      RealDave, I’m guessing you r still serving. I just told u the story that is public news. Most of it is fact. The comments r racist.. Aren’t they? Did I say that it only happens in the military? Soldiers are different to the rest of the society. 24/7. A lifestyle not a job. The soldier is state property, civilians are not. We signed our life away when we joined. We are there to protect liberal values, that’s our job. Afghanistan is a largely humanitarian hearts and minds operation, with a destroy capacity. I put more emphasis on the responsibility of command than the actions of the diggers… I am using their transgression to make a bigger point. The question of militarism, cultures of violence, the exploitation of young naive men by armchair warriors. You may not see it but I am on the side of the digger and the NCO. It’s the brass that need a rocket. I am well aware the privilege of my commentary exists, at this point in history, due to the brave boys. That was the irony of that quote.

    • Lisa H. says:

      02:16pm | 28/03/11

      Ben Wadham has got a career to push.
      My husband uses worse language (and more discriminatory language) against me when I try to get him to do the washing up.

    • Scooter says:

      08:34pm | 28/03/11

      You are on the money, Real Dave.  I can’t stand it when the amoral media take the high moral ground on any issue.  I don’t believe the soldiers’ language is appropriate for public consumption, but it wasn’t public - UNTIL the media make it front page news.  Very few people were aware of the comments until the media fools publicised it and started carrying on about how embarrassing the comments were.  All in the name of the right to know, but of course, in reality, all in the pursuit of tv ratings and newspaper sales.

    • PJ says:

      03:26pm | 25/03/11

      You put a group of men together, you train them to kill, you send them to war, you send them to their death and you expect they will speak highly of those who would kill them?

      This country and the PC wankers beggar belief.  To anyone who criticises their conduct, get up off your backside, join, get a gun, head off to YOUR death and remember to speak glowingly of your killers.

      This country is nuts.

    • jade says:

      07:49pm | 25/03/11

      Too right PJ.

    • mmr Aunty Chick says:

      03:29pm | 25/03/11

      Your comment:
      soldiers sound like sports stars

    • Mayday says:

      03:37pm | 25/03/11

      And the Armed Services wonder why they have difficulty recruiting, leave these men alone to do their job?
      Perhaps a lecture on etiquette and security whilst using facebook, etc would be helpful.

    • Pan Pan says:

      04:21pm | 25/03/11

      “After you Bluey!”
      “No, I insist my dear Curl, after you!”
      “Well I don’t mind if I do, that’s awfully generous of you..”
      “Not at all old chap, would you care for another mag of ammo?”
      Oh no, really, I believe I have quite enough already, thanks all the same old chap.”
      “Do you think we’ll see any of those jolly Taliban chappies this time?”
      “Goodness, I hope not. Last time out one of the blighters took a shot at dear old Ozzie, had to ask him to desist.”
      “Goodness, we must have got under his skin in some way. Perhaps we could hand out some pamphlets and a few cans of deodorant…”
      “Oooh I don’t think the deodorant would be appropriate, they might get the message that we think they’re smelly ragheads, that wouldn’t do”.
      “Oh well, I suppose you’re right, but I do wish they’d stop taking potshots at us, that’s totally inappropriate behaviour if you ask me.”
      “Yes I quite agree. We should report them to the thought police in Canberra, they’ll know what to do.”

    • gman says:

      04:24pm | 25/03/11

      Mate, you’re a turkey!

      The ADF is approx 1700 members over-subscribed. Recruiting booms during periods of operations, and people that were intending to leave the ADF simply don’t because there’s work to do. Soldiers find job satisfaction on getting a ‘gig’ and doing the job for which they have training for so many years.

      And trust me, they DO get security lectures. ALOT!

    • TheRealDave says:

      05:12pm | 25/03/11

      @Mayday, they get plenty of Diggers lining up. Shortfalls in recruiting are all in the ‘specialist’ fields ie Doctors, Dentists, Nurses etc

      But I’d hate to be the one to point out the flaw in the most common anti-military argument…well…the most common one after ‘they only join the army cause they can’t get a job anywhere else’ that is….

    • Bruce says:

      05:46pm | 25/03/11

      Mayday: Agree. They are soldiers, not pussy politicians or those of that ilk. Those that do not like what our great soldiers do, then maybe “YOU” would like to do their job ?

    • Tom says:

      12:37pm | 28/03/11

      Ive just finished a 5 year uni degree and going through the long process of joining the adf as a grunt. Im sick of the sedentary lifestyle of working in an office.Its very competative! They have 100’s of applicant everyday.

    • TChong says:

      03:40pm | 25/03/11

      An amazing coincidence , is it not?
      2 days ago the ABC somehow “finds” (were leaked) a vid of the ADF doing wonderous things in Afghanistan,
      Last night , this video.
      So..
      Could the 1st vid have been a pre emptive release to counter act any fallout from the Channel 7 vid ?
      or
      Is there someone(s)  with such an axe to grind, that the Ch 7 vid was forwarded to diminish any kudos for the 1st (ABC) vid?

    • stephen says:

      06:00pm | 25/03/11

      Mr. Chong, you are the most severe anti-US, and I might say US, contributor on this site, and all you gotta say is 7 got it wrong but 2 was less wrong ?
      Glory be… we may be right in ‘ghan and Iraq after all.

    • rick says:

      03:46pm | 25/03/11

      British in Afganistan 1800’s…....got their arses kicked
      British in Afganistan 1930’s using Afgan’s for bombing practice
      Russian’s in Afganistan 1980’s…..got their arses kicked
      American,British,Australians Others…......There blood will stain the sand….WHY?
      This will only end in tears.

    • stephen says:

      05:31pm | 25/03/11

      The Allies are winning in Afghanistan, which is why Putin from Russia is getting pissed off about the US’s sojourn in Libya.
      He’s not involved, and may I say that Iraq and ‘stan are our 2 success stories ?
      Vlad’s gonna have to do a ‘Berlusconi’ to get attention now : girls, beachballs and strawberrys. (not in that order.)

    • PJ says:

      05:40pm | 25/03/11

      Have you noticed Putin doesn’t have a problem giving it to the Chechniyans?

    • stephen says:

      07:55pm | 25/03/11

      Yeah PJ, I’ve also noticed that Chechniya is also going to be a difficult supply of diamonds and gold which Russia relies upon.
      All the ‘iya’ counties below Russia are loaded with rich minerals.

      The next crime element, (the Russians are the normal introverts) of the world will come from Eastern Uerope.

    • EC says:

      04:27pm | 25/03/11

      Ben,

      I wonder if when you mention the Operational Defence Force, you actually mean the Operational Deployment Force (ODF) of the 80s/early 90s. Notwithstanding that, I have two questions to ask of you. Firstly, you mention your time in one of the Infantry Battalions where you participated in any number of acts that even in that period would (or should) have raised a number of moral questions. I’d be interested to know if you raised these issues through your chain of command or any of the other reporting chains (chaplains, RMO, etc.) or did you just carry on with the boys being that you too were probably in the 18-24 year old age bracket? Secondly, what is the point of the article? I’m guessing it is to generate interest but sets a very negative tone across the entire Army and the ADF. Perhaps, like many others have commented on here, some perspective is required. How many soldiers posted these comments out of a total strength of the Defence Force? Perhaps if we compare this percentage to the community at large it may not reflect a wide spread view of racism within the ADF.

      I appreciate that you have served in the Army and have an opinion on this issue. I too have served and I too have an opinion. Please do not try and imply that the Army is composed of racist individuals that somehow are less able to defend the country because of these prejudices without a more in-depth analysis of the Army in relation to the community at large.

    • Ben wadham says:

      07:47pm | 26/03/11

      Yes Op Deploy Force.. Late night my only excuse… Point of article to generate discussion… I didn’t think it was massively negative… On Channel 10 last night I was asked is the army or ADF a racist culture… I said no.. It is a culture of group solidarity where racist and sexist practices exist… Like anywhere. But I argue it intensifies as the imperative of group solidarity intensifies. I was trying to paint a picture of that intense culture - the arms corps. Certainly not the same across the whole ADF or across ranks and roles. Please appreciate the nature of this site and this type of writing… I was also responding in a sense to some hardline commentary from the previous days article on the trophy shots. Yes there is a more complex story to tell

    • Jozza says:

      04:38pm | 25/03/11

      Once again the ADF proves itself an absolute disgrace and embarrassment to this country. Worse still are the sheep-like supporters of this kind of thing.

      We have “Punchers” saying things like ” ... this article is saying is that the Australian Soldier is NO DIFFERENT whatsover to Australian society in his attitude toward the world around him”.

      Strangely I have never heard anyone using these terms in “Australian society” despite living in a working class area and having a working class job. I guess it tells us much about the kind of people posting on here defending the revolting actions of these racists. They are a small, but very vocal, group of racists and bigots who think that because all their mates are similarly inclined it’s all ok!

      I’m here to tell you the majority of Australians don’t think this way or use this type of language towards others. No matter how much you wish they would.

      Thankfully, there are some in the ADF who are not afraid to speak out or expose the bigotry, sexism (don’t forget the Navy’s recent incidents), and racism. They are even more brave because they are able to stand up to the intimidation and aggression shown towards anyone who questions the ADF.

      It’s sad that every time we shine a light on the actions of the ADF we see cockroaches scurrying for the darkness.

    • TheRealDave says:

      05:19pm | 25/03/11

      @Jozza, up to your usual bollocks I see?

      “Strangely I have never heard anyone using these terms in “Australian society” despite living in a working class area and having a working class job.” So what you are saying is you don’t leave your parents house then? What utter bollocks.

      “It’s sad that every time we shine a light on the actions of the ADF ” You know what sadder? Anonymous Internet cowards who use that safety an anonymity to say things they would never have the stones to say publicly.

      A comment or two and a ‘Like’ on Facebook isn’t systemic of anything more than weevils in the ‘meeja’ looking to grind their anti-military axe. Much like the article the other day.

    • john says:

      06:22pm | 25/03/11

      @Jozza ” I’m here to tell you the majority of Australians don’t think this way or use this type of language towards others.”
      Here is a list of sarcastic points:
      -Nope one nation doesn’t use this language and neither does the ‘shit happens’ liberal party.
      -No-one in Cronulla or anywhere in Australia does either.
      -Who uses or thinks about this sort of language like ‘ditch the witch’ on national T.V.

      Everyone’s halos are intact.

    • Richard says:

      05:09pm | 25/03/11

      Moral outrage is so pathetic, especially from the media. We’ve been subjected to so much moral outrage over trivial issues lately, its gotten really really tired.

      The one person who’s copped it more than anyone else over the last year or so is Tony Abbott. It seems like every two weeks there is another media storm in a tea cup trying to crucify him. “He said that women do all the ironing”: boo hoo. “He said he didn’t want to have jet lag”: woop de doo da. “He said shit happens”: Big deal. “He stood in front of a rude protest poster”: who cares.

      Get over yourselves you stuck-up journalists. I issue you a challenge. I dare you to go for the whole rest of the year and not get morally outraged by Tony Abbott. Go on, take my challenge. I know you don’t want to, because you’re just waiting to get morally outraged by Tony Abbott, you’re on the edge of your seats every time he opens his mouth just in case he makes one teensy tiny little comment that you can whip up into a media frenzy of moral outrage…

      But I dare you to not to. Or what, are you chicken?

    • Ben wadham says:

      05:17pm | 25/03/11

      Most of these comments don’t pertain the content of the article. They are simply radical defensiveness. I might reassess that final line, it was provocative… My point is that boys will do stuff like this in this context if they are not adequately trained and educated. That is the hierarchies responsibility. I am commenting on this culture, that’s the way it is. My question is why and I write to ask us all to ask that question. Try to generate some distance between your emotions and an assessment of the facts.

    • stephen says:

      05:42pm | 25/03/11

      A separation of facts and emotions is precisely the domain of animals.
      You wrote it, and war is emotional.

      You don’t have to be right yer know, ter get yer message across.

    • Anthony says:

      07:32am | 26/03/11

      I find it hard to cast any opinion when the soldiers are in a situation which is grossly unnatural and bizarre. Some people have jobs with degrees of stress that are unfair, this is one of them. How do you educate them to handle this when the job they are asked to do is dangerous to the extreme? Certainly motherhood statements provide them with little relief. Perhaps we need to be more tolerant and accept that if we put them through this situation then this is the stuff we get in return. What if they had said racist comments about US troops, I suspect we would have let it slide.

    • PJ says:

      05:42pm | 25/03/11

      To any ADF out there reading this…don’t be offended, the decent people of this country still respect what you do.  It’s unfortunate that you have to protect the rights of people who are so ungrateful.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      07:01pm | 25/03/11

      That members of the ADF use colourful, & indeed insulting, terms in referring to the people of Afghanistan is, almost, to be expected. Distasteful as it may be.
      Senator, Dr. Bob Brown, leader of the ALP’s runt-party the Greens, has publicly deplored the way in which many of the Australian’s at the protest outside Parliament House,Canberra over their references to Australia’s worst-ever Prime Minister, Julia Gillard.
      Fair enough, but maybe Brown could take a leaf out of his own book of Political Correctness when referring to people of other nations.
      Brown referred to the people of Afghanistan as “Afghanis” & in doing so displayed his appalling ignorance. (ABC-TV News Friday 25 March 2011)
      The people of Afghanistan are called “Afghans” & not “Afghani” which just happens to be what those wonderful, tortured people call their currency!
      If Brown wants to be taken seriously anywhere then he should learn to use the correct terminology. 
      We won’t hold our breath whilst we await Brown’s apology.

    • Reg says:

      06:47pm | 27/03/11

      Richard “We’ve been subjected to so much moral outrage over trivial issues lately, its gotten really really tired.”

      Well… fancy that.

      Robert “Fair enough, but maybe Brown could take a leaf out of his own book of Political Correctness when referring to people of other nations.”

      Gee…

      More Robert;  “Brown referred to the people of Afghanistan as “Afghanis” & in doing so displayed his appalling ignorance. (ABC-TV News Friday 25 March 2011)”

      Appalling?  Perhaps that could be called appalling overindulgence in self-righteous indignation. wink

      Yes we’re impressed with your detailed understanding Robert since that’s what you want. Unfortunately few of the writers above have your circumspection and one supposes you always choke on the use of the word Aussie. Not to mention the recent world-wide habit of Anglicizing all foreign words. Must be hell for you.

    • Paul Horn says:

      07:55pm | 25/03/11

      Well said PJ these boys are doing it tough in a bloody harsh environment. Their actions have saved our skins from many a terrorist attack. Not only that they have shown the Afghanis that we have the resolve to stick it out but they have shown the Taliban we ain’t the pushove they thought we would be. 

      Mr Wadhams disgraceful commentary loses sight of the bigger picture. We are in a battle nay struggle for hearts and minds adn one that may take 20, 30, perhaps 100 years. Who cares because the despite the spew foaming form leftist media trotskyists and cafe latte academic hypocrites the end result if we stick it out will be better for us and more importantly the Afghanis who live in fear of terroist zealots!  Well Done boys you are doing a sterling job.

      Unfortunately like your Vietnam war fighting brothers you have been let down by a lying snivelling treasonous press and a progressive socialist element that lives off Government grants and the hard work of decent Australians. They make me sick to my guts.

      Get rid of the press and the intelligentsia and we shall rid ourselves of terrorism!

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:20pm | 25/03/11

      Strange, that was Hitler’s explanation for Germany’s defeat in World War I. I guess I get to call Godwin’s Law upon myself.

    • Just lovely says:

      08:03pm | 25/03/11

      Well I think we have an absolutely gorgeous army.

    • Peter cosgrove says:

      08:45pm | 25/03/11

      Geez there are some really stupid postings here. No wonder the governmen want to achieve a higher level of literacy cross the country. What hope do we have when most of these posts are ignorant fearful and bigoted. If you act like a golfball expect to be hit across the park. You guys need an edumacation! I think the punch should get literal…

    • Pacifist says:

      08:52pm | 25/03/11

      Dehumanising the enemy should never be a justification for behaviour such as this.  I appreciate that our troops are doing the worst possible job that I could ever imagine, but if dehumanising the enemy is acceptable then we have got it plain wrong.

      I really hate to take this debate down to a kindergarten level, but two wrongs do not make a right.  But if its okay for us to dehumanise them, then its okay for them to dehumanise us, the cycle continues - and everybody loses.

      Killing humans is just plain wrong - it’s just as wrong when they do it as when we do it.  Problem as i see it is that we’re not really all that different and dehumanising the enemy just perpetuates the hate.

    • Truckin' Buddy says:

      10:57pm | 26/03/11

      WRONG.
      Dehumanising the enemy, once identified as the enemy, allows a soldier to be clear that he has done / is about to do, the right thing. He must remove the danger to himself and his comrades.
      Does he have the luxury of dissecting the consequences for his opponent and their family? No he does not. He simply cannot afford to do it. Like most normal people, a soldier has feelings and understands his actions have ramifications.
      Any idiot here, including the author of the original piece of “journalism” that thinks they understand this debate has never been faced with the option - kill or be killed. It is simply not possible to comprehend that scenario until you live it. And for MANY, almost impossible to live with afterwards.
      So to all the bleeding hearts, please SHUT UP!

    • Pacifist says:

      11:50pm | 27/03/11

      I think you missed my point, which in hindsight wasn’t particularly clear so i dont blame you, but my real question was about what war actually achieves?

      If i have to say that killing is okay, then i have to accept that them killing us is okay.  Everyone is fighting for something they believe in, everyone is fighting for what they consider to be “the right thing”. 

      I want to know why, after everything we’ve experienced of war during the past century, we continue to accept that war is justified?  I want to know why we continue to tell our sons and daughters that some of these causes are things for which they should lay down their lives.  If they weren’t there in the first place then they wouldnt have to make “kill or be killed” decisions and live with them.

      Didn’t the global community achieve regime change in South Africa without war, resulting in the end of apartheid regardless?  There are other options. 

      I take your point that dehumanising the enemy might be the coping mechanism that our troops need - but my question is, why is that mechanism needed at all?

      I foresee a barrage of comments about how they started it (9/11, etc.), and if they are telling their young people that’s it okay to kill the ‘infidels’ then its okay for us to retaliate, but I wont be swayed from my opinion that there are better ways for us to handle it.

      Defence would be one such option - why not employ our soldiers in preventing terrorism on our shores?  It addresses the perceived threat without our sons and daughters being placed in this impossible position…

    • Truckin' Buddy says:

      11:23pm | 25/03/11

      Well well well. What a hypocrite you are Ben.
      It was ok when you were young, but not now? Because you earn a living from it?
      War is war. Do you not think the enemy does the same thing?
      What you saw on the vid/sound bite was a successful mission that probably took a lot of planning and the soldiers were releasing a bit of tension.
      Good luck to them and down to the PC wowsers. It’s a damned war.

    • James A says:

      06:19am | 26/03/11

      Soldiers are trained to kill Wadham. The names they give to their enemies are part of the training to dehumanize them. Our soldiers here and in other wars routinely blow off peoples heads and sometimes get killed ourselves. Soldiers used names in all other Wars last century. Many if them much worse than the pathetic stuff presented here.

      Articles like this show how utterly out of touch Australians are with the realities of war and death. It’s ok for some puffed up twit like Kevin Rudd to urge others to bomb the nasty Arabs but he doesn’t want to see the pictures of the burned and twisted bodies of those that died in agony or hear nasty words used against those that are trying to kill ‘our’ troops.

      The sickening double standards applied by these judgmental creeps who live in luxury due to the blood of pleb soldiers staring into death minute to minute beggars belief.

    • Un PC Humourist says:

      07:47am | 26/03/11

      Thank goodness for boys and men who join the ADF forces - just wish they wouldn’t twitter on so much.  And if anyone wants to know what infidels are called and what to do with them, just read the Koran.  And distasteful name callng should not be a cause to dismiss anyone from the ADFfor if they were all caught, we wouldn’t have an army, navy or airforce at all!

    • MudCrab says:

      08:10am | 26/03/11

      I love the men and women of my ADF

    • Reg says:

      06:22pm | 27/03/11

      Why? That smacks of the same unqualified bullshit the Yanks spout. Kindly be more discerning and expect as much from our forces.

      In order to defeat a cruel and decisive enemy our troops must be even more cruel and decisive. I’ll limit it to that because twice now my detailed reasons have not been published.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      08:43am | 26/03/11

      We require the men of the ADF to kill other men of varying nations. While I have no personal experience of killing people, from what I’ve read and been told by those who do, is it leaves a mark upon those doing the killing. Part of making the task somewhat easier is to dehumanise the other side; they are monsters, barbarians, unclean, uncouth, uneducated, having strange or repugnant beliefs - whatever works to make them seem more like targets and less like another human. Civilians are poor judges of what makes a good soldier simply because they will never have to fight under the conditions a soldier, will nor have to take another man’s life as a part of a day at work.

      If harsh language and stereotypes of the enemy are your only concern then I suggest you look at the outcomes of ADF operations. The soldiers are not being trained for the corporate boardroom and Political Correctness exams, they are trained to make sure the other side dies for their beliefs or country and that they achieve the objectives assigned to the ADF by the government of Australia. Part of that training includes powerful cohesiveness of our men and powerful desire to be successful and an acceptance of killing and maiming other men on the opposing side. In an environment of planned death for both our men and the enemy’s men you worry about harsh language?

    • your kidding says:

      02:07pm | 28/03/11

      Well said ochre, this is the point, these are soldiers who have been trained to kill other people it is unreasonable and PC gone mad to expect them to speak politely when they have been trained to take lives and live everyday in a situation where their lives are constantly in danger, for all of those who feel soldiers should be polite….. wake up

    • Leigh says:

      09:14am | 26/03/11

      The Australian army brass is just being its usual precious self. These diggers actually have to kill people: ordered to do so by the same PC desk jockeys who are now tut tutting about a few remarks because some nosey parker is spying (probably told to) on soldiers. These blokes have enough to worry about without Canberra ponces having the vapours over everything they (our soldiers) are heard to say by a nasty little spy in their ranks.

    • KING SPARE ME OF TUT TUT says:

      09:49am | 26/03/11

      Someone’s always got to do your dirty work for you to live your Immaculate Existence,, clean streets, running water, flushing sewerage, power for your air con [lest you sweat and get smelly], pick up body parts from a crash scene and clean away the blood and guts, slaughter and butcher your meat and your enemies with compassion and dignity whilst being complete politically correct gentlemen and ladies, It’s called REALITY and if you don’t like the way the job gets done get off your dainty TUT TUT arse and do it yourself.

    • Harquebus says:

      09:50am | 26/03/11

      “unprofessional, it contradicts the values it seeks to uphold”. I take it then that killing people is okay but, calling them names. The politically correct looneys have really gone off the tune.

    • john says:

      10:52am | 26/03/11

      @Harquebus, spot on.

      The hypocrisy is amazing, we are all happy for these soldiers who are trained to kill people to do our dirty bidding. Then with the same breath they criticise them for calling names like ‘smelly locals’. 

      I think we need our soldiers to come home and cull some of these idiots.

    • Reg says:

      09:40am | 28/03/11

      John…  ” I think we need our soldiers to come home and cull some of these idiots.’

      WTF ... if I remember correctly you’re the Greek guy who scarpered off to Australia to escape the democracy of his homeland. Now you’re suggesting the elimination of those who disagree with you. No thanks mate, I’ll buy my fruit down the road.

      :

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:50am | 26/03/11

      Sigh. The primary role of the the ADF in Afghanistan is not to kill the Taliban. Body counts don’t win insurgencies. The primary mission of the ADF is to win the support of the local population by providing local security while simultaneously training local Afghan security forces (both military and police) to take over when a withdrawal comes. The activities of some ADF members in “calling names” is directly detrimental to these missions. Senior command should court martial these people at the very least.

    • stephen says:

      09:14pm | 26/03/11

      If the Taliban is the problem, (and they are) then body-counts are indeed part of the win. They are unchangeable, and as they kill our lads on sight, so they should die first.
      As far as I know, the ADF is training Afghan Forces to police their own provinces.
      We, and the Allies are doing both simultaneously to defeat the Taliban.
      Calling people names is nasty on the school-ground, and for anyone to suppose it injurious in war, (Neil James included) has indeed lost their Humanity, for they have made that unfortunate separation of feelings and action, (or at least behaviour) which has made this conflict entirely possible.

    • michael j says:

      11:50am | 26/03/11

      A message to Ben,time heals old wounds,soldiers behaving badly,BOB
      dead now,, 40 years ago told me a little of his time as a guest in a Japanese prison camp,for 3 years, naïvely i said can’t you forgive them,,he replied ,how can you forgive something that’s not human,,the biggest mistake of the war was the yanks stopping bombing Japan,,,
      A group of Soldiers went to Japan for an Apology a few weeks ago,knowing BOB he would have been at the airport to spit on them when they returned
      just like the public was there to spit on the Vietnam baby killers when that conflict turned bad,,So tell me Ben what can this crew of racist mother f$%kers expect when they come home after saving the free-world from a few simple goatherders,,,,,,

    • Rigger Bud says:

      12:17pm | 26/03/11

      Only brain-dead no-hopers join the army anyway. Anyone with any sense is off working the mines and rigs.

    • Karen from Qld says:

      03:21pm | 26/03/11

      Here’s a thought perhaps we should send all these “brain dead no hopers” back home and in their place send all the young and not so young Afghan men who arrive here every other day of the week to bludge off our welfare to face death for their own freedom. That way there will be no Australian soldiers in Afghanistan to cause embarrassment and be a disgrace.

    • gra gra says:

      07:34pm | 26/03/11

      Dean, who posted earlier said we should leave the ADF to “get on with the job”. What job?  Does anyone really think that when our blokes come home, (except for the fallen), that the Afghan people won’t revert to their former state? The U.S. outfitted the Taliban, and now, for some obscure reason, they are the enemy. And we go along. Well, not all of us, just those who think that a cave-dweller from Saudi Arabia presents a threat to the free world without having proven links to Al Queida, who are apparently the real problem. He threatens a lot, but apart from defending the region from those with a hidden agenda he probably hasn’t done things much differently to what would be our response to an invasion from some foreign power, seeking to dictate our way of life. Or does our changing of the Government in that area mean that terrorism is eliminated from Afghanistan? Bring the lads and lasses home. It’s another Vietnam, and just as unwinnable. There’s nothing to win.

    • Jase says:

      08:36am | 27/03/11

      You’re all brain dead for actually believing we need to be there. The whole ‘war on terror’ is the biggest con in history. Please take some time to think for yourselves and stop just being a mind dead citizen that believes everything they read in the papers. Do your own research.

    • Pablo Picasso says:

      09:45am | 27/03/11

      When is this ridiculous PC world going to end? Let’s see the Brigadiers and Colonels out there fighting these ragheads instead of sipping their gin and tonics back on the mainland.

      Typical “do as I say” bullshit mentality.

    • Andrew says:

      09:39am | 28/03/11

      So, you can spend 9 months overseas getting shot at and shooting people but you cant say any naughty words. Think of the children. Sounds like the opinon of another pogue MP with hurt feelings to me Ben.

    • Bill says:

      12:02pm | 02/03/12

      I agree. Go “over there” do your job which by the way for an Infantryman is to seek out and close with the enemy,to KILL or capture him to seize and to hold ground by day or night regardless of season weather or terrain….You Mr Wadham are an ex Infantryman who obviously couldn`t handle the pace and Corps transferred to Military Police for 2 easy hooks. It comes down to “put in a glass case and only break in time of war”.The meek shall not inherit the earth because they are so much easier to kill.

    • Smirking Liberal says:

      03:15pm | 28/03/11

      I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
      The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
      The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
      I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
      O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
      But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
      The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
      O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

      I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
      They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
      They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
      But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
      But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
      The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
      O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

      Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
      Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
      An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
      Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
      Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
      But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
      The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
      O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

      We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
      But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
      An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
      Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
      While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
      But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
      There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
      O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

      You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
      We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
      Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
      The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
      But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
      An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
      An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool—you bet that Tommy sees!

    • deedeewhy says:

      08:54am | 31/03/11

      Yes, the Japanese did all that but they certainly paid for it by being bombed the shit out of by the americans during wii, literally killing thousands of women, old men and children, so they have paid their dues tenfold, haven’t they been punished enough without you lot slagging off at them time and time again.

      And you can bet your life that these comments wont get posted on the punch site.

 

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