Welcome to sunny Big Australia, the land of opportunity, where you’re welcome to be one of 36 million of us by the year 2050 - as long as you’re prepared to live, oh, about 4,000 kms from the Opera House.

Illustration: The Daily Telegraph's Warren Brown

The Punch set out last week to find out just how tolerant Australians are of the idea of the kind of population growth being considered by the Federal Government, and more to the point, how it should be managed.

What we found on the streets of Sydney, the country’s most under pressure city, is a political nightmare for both sides of politics. While Sydneysiders are quite open minded about welcoming more Australians, 70 per cent said we’d need a whole new city to house them, and that city should be far, far away.

The most popular location, with 17 per cent of the 100 people we spoke to, was on the West Australian coast.

A distant second, on 9 per cent, was Central Australia. Both suggestions are probably the most impractical, expensive options available - but more on that later.

We started by asking people what the population of Australia should be 40 years from now.

15-22m: 10%
22-28m: 26%
28-33m: 29%
33-38m: 23%

Warren, 48, from Gosford, was a typical respondent. He thought the population should be between 28 and 33 million by 2050 and wasn’t fussed about where the extra people would come from. He sees the water shortage as the biggest problem Australia will face as the population grows.

When asked what the biggest problems are with population growth, 58% of people raised concerns about infrastructure, including supply of water and houses, as well as city congestion.

Only 6 people said cultural or racial tensions could be a problem.

Asked if the growth should be in state capitals or regional centres, 88 per cent said regional centres while 18 per cent say capitals. (It’s more than 100 because some people said both)

Asked if they would support building a new Australian city, 70 per cent said yes.

If it could be shown that a new city would alleviate some of the problems caused by a growing population, support for a new city rose to 78 per cent.

If it could be shown that a new city would boost the national economy, support rose to 87 per cent.

But where do we build? This issue has the potential to be a far greater hand grenade for the two major parties than any discussion about numbers.

Two decades on and the location of a second Sydney airport is still something neither side ever really wants to get in to - so deconstructive has been the ongoing political nightmare over it.

And while voters might want some of our vast brown land used for development, experts say it’s not the best way forward.

Professor or Urban Research Patrick Troy is at the Fenner School of Environment and Society at the ANU. He told The Punch the answer is more likely to be more than one major new development, and that realistically it/they had to be located somewhere along the East coast communication and transport spine taking in Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.

“We’d need to go for locations along that axis that have commercial, industrial and economic potential, and that can be connected to one another,” Prof Troy said.

He named Wagga Wagga and Goulburn as two possible candidates, saying both would be suited to being significantly developed into major cities.

Goulburn, about 200 kms South West of Sydney, had the added advantage of being geographically suited for a major international airport, which could be connected to Canberra and Sydney by high-speed rail. (The airport would also, unlike Sydney and Brisbane, be quarantined from the effects of climate change).

Expanding south from the Gold Coast, or developing in the rich pickings of the Lachlan Valley (around Cowra) was also worth investigating, Professor Troy said. The development would require more than just infrastructure such as roads, schools and hospitals. It would also need cultural elements to attract residents, starting with a major tertiary education facility.

“If you picked the places that have the correct natural resources you could start to see the benefits within the timeframe of growth they’re talking about (2050),” he said. “But we’ve got to get our skates on and commit to doing this and stick to it.”

Which is the major political issue. Which ever political party takes a location to an election, both will have to agree to stick to it or it will never happen and cities such as Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne will be choked.

And as Professor Troy pointed out, it would also require an end to the “posturing on behalf of the state premiers.”

Where would you put a new Australian city? Where voters want it - or where it makes the best sense? It’s a Big Australia, big question for the new minister for Population Tony Burke.

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204 comments

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    • John A Neve says:

      07:32am | 19/04/10

      I thought the Whitlam government started down the path of decentralisation?
      But weren’t in power long enough to keep the ball rolling, sadly, later governments failed to follow up.

    • L Hardy says:

      11:46am | 19/04/10

      Lets have new city in Grafton plenty of water and land could have 3- 4 million there

    • Jack Thomas says:

      12:03pm | 19/04/10

      Five months ago Kevin Rudd said:

      “I actually believe in a big Australia.

      I make no apology for that.

      I actually think it’s good news that our population is growing”.

      35 million people by 2025 is his target. Argue against that, and you’re a racist NIMBY.

    • Hay, NSW townie says:

      12:27pm | 19/04/10

      Why do weed to build another huge metropolis with another huge road and public transport network getting people in and out of it.
      Spread out how about increasing the population of all those towns we have just built new school halls in. The same ones that often have their exsisting hospital threatened with closure because they don’t have a big enough population.
      A smaller population centre does not need heaps of internal rail and roads. And people only have a short commute to and from work.
      Plenty of opportunity for the government without having to spend much capital to re-energize rural Australia by offering some significient tax breaks for companies willing to re-locate and bringing back or expanding zone rebates for working individuals earning over $30K per annum.
      Not to mention loads of very affordable housing and plenty of land available for development.
      As for water well Hay is on a river (Murrumbidge) and a lot of other struggling rural communities are also. We are talking about re-locating people not cotton properties so water is not that big of an issue, plus in most cases I am only talking about increasing these rural communities sizes by hundreds and thousands (not hundreds of thousands and millions) so I’m not talking about huge infrastructure being needed as well.
      Just offering an idea on how we can get more out of what we have got and revitalise these rural towns in the process.

    • Jack Thomas says:

      03:59pm | 19/04/10

      and here we have the classic hypocrisy of the Greenie and latte leftie.

      Let’s call it the huff of the Neo Socialist.

      They scream racist at anyone who suggests we need to have border protection.

      The Neo Socialist wants to hand out passports at the beach and let them all in. While we are facing 400 boat arrivals for the year (at the current rate of 103 in 3 months), they think that we should just keep on welcoming thousands of asylum seekers. Hell, to house them even gets them up in arms about the damage “we” are doing to their ‘psychological wellbeing’.
      Then they object to the developer looking to build apartments in their neighbourhood. They scream at Planning Ministers for approving development applications or allowing new growth boundaries. They sneer at the middle Australian living in the suburbs or looking to buy in a housing estate and just laugh at the poor sap trying to buy into the rocketing and unaffordable property market.

      Then they argue that we should all stop living as we are, that climate change will kill us all and we can’t afford to support our growing population. Bring in regulation, legislation, anything to tax us for using anything that even smells of carbon.

      Well, what is it?

      You want the asylum seekers you need to cater for them. Otherwise give them a bed at your house and shut up.

    • Jimbo says:

      11:17pm | 19/04/10

      Commenters such as the one above me are what I call the Neo Idiots. They sneer at lefties who drink coffee and and curl their lip at being called racist for not wanting so many brown people around. Most laughably they say things like “While we are facing 400 boat arrivals for the year (at the current rate of 103 in 3 months), they think that we should just keep on welcoming thousands of asylum seekers”. The windbags don’t even realise the vast gulf betwwen our 400 a year and Italy’s 800,000 or Jordan’s 2,000,000. What a joke us Aussies are.

    • Mick says:

      07:55am | 19/04/10

      There’s too much of an assumption in all this that our economic growth over the next couple of decades is going to continue more or less as it has for the past 5-10 years and that we’ll therefore continue to need a large migrant intake. I think we went through a good patch that warranted high growth but there are a number of things that could (and in my opinion will) slow it down in the coming years.

    • Robert Smissen of God's Own Country, Rural SA says:

      04:20pm | 19/04/10

      You could be right Mick, once the Chinese have taken the last mineral (at special mate’s rates) we will be just like Nauru, a big hole & no assets.

    • Justin says:

      08:05am | 19/04/10

      “Growth for the sake of growth is the philosopy of a cancer cell.”—Edward Abbey

    • DanMunchie says:

      11:01am | 19/04/10

      Agreed. Less people = less production = less pollution = less complication. With more and more people on this planet, we’re just becoming further distant from one another.

    • acotrel says:

      05:55am | 02/01/11

      Less people = less production = less pollution = less complication= smaller domestic markets=smaller budget=no economies of scale=a country disappearing up it’s own fundamental orifice! Becoming just a great big target for invasion!

    • Delphic Oracle says:

      08:08am | 19/04/10

      Justin is right.  If population continues to grow, the expotential outcome will be hideous not just for Australia but for the planet.  Shoulder to shoulder people is a recipe for disaster and now is the time to stop baby bonuses here and give more foreign aid towards birth control or all cities of the world will end up like the one in Blade Runner but the aliens will be us.

    • Azz says:

      08:49am | 19/04/10

      I don’t think people actually live shoulder to shoulder anywhere on the planet. We’ve got plenty of room. Comments like yours are extreme.

      Permit me to use some simple maths here to shoot you down…

      According to wikipedia, we have 2.833 people per square kilometer AND 7,617,930 square kilometers of land available to us.
      An R&D Erognomics company states that their supports fit 95% of the population, as they have shoulders between 16 - 26 inches. So lets run with 26in, or 66.04cm. I’m taking the upper measurement, and not the middle, as this accounts for people larger.
      15,144 people can stand shoulder-to-shoulder along one kilometer. Assuming that humans are cubic, which we aren’t, but let’s roll with it for the sake of the discussion, 229,359,855 people can fit in one square kilometer. I guess this means that 1,747,247,320,471,271 could actually fit on Australia alone. Let’s say that only 1% of the land is habitable now (which it isn’t). 1,747,247,320,471 people on 1% of Australia. Wow - we’re still 2,496 times the worlds population (taken to be 7 billion) standing “shoulder-to-shoulder” on one percent of our land.

      Do you know what this means with respect to your comment?
      It means you need to put down the hate-bong and get a clue, Hitler.

    • isis says:

      10:04am | 19/04/10

      Azz, at what point would you advocate birth control? Some of us want to act responsibly and preserve the planet, while others want wars, starvation and disease to control our numbers.

    • dancan says:

      10:34am | 19/04/10

      One thing you’re missing Azz (and quoted)

      “By far the largest part of Australia is desert or semi-arid – 40% of the landmass is covered by sand dunes. Only the south-east and south-west corners have a temperate climate and moderately fertile soil. The northern part of the country has a tropical climate: part is tropical rainforests, part grasslands, and part desert.”

      Realistically, while Australia is a huge landmass and on paper we have a huge amount of sq km’s to individual you have to remember that we only have a very small amount of usable space and resources to go with that.

      Though I do get your point that we’re hardly shoulder to shoulder but at the same time we don’t really have this huge land mass to expand into either.

    • living in the free world says:

      10:21am | 19/04/10

      if you want to preserve the planet, get rid of your massive gardens, plant more native plants, get rid of your 4 litre cars and catch public transport, then get rid of all the golf courses they are a massive waste of water., Reducing our population is not going to save the planet if we are living in a unsustainable fashion. Its quite selfish really i want to waste all of our countries resources therefore immigration must be reduced.

    • notsurprised says:

      01:02pm | 19/04/10

      Wow Azz, you’ve displayed to everyone that you know how to use a calculator. A major flaw in your ideal is that of resourse management and how this works for your calculations. To paraphrase your post, “Comments like yours are extreme.” and ” It means you need to put down the hate-bong and get a clue, Hitler. ” Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however it is indeed comments like yours that are extreme.

    • Wirewolf says:

      03:30pm | 19/04/10

      Good work, Azz; proving the veracity of Godwin’s Law once again.

    • shabangabang says:

      08:34am | 19/04/10

      I think the new cities should be scattered around the country. My preferences would be
      1. Central West NSW. The stretch of the Newell Highway between Parkes and Dubbo is 12 hours by road and rail from 85% of Australia’s population. Nowhere is more central.
      2. Townsville region. Cairns is running out of land already and needs to grow upwards. Townsville has plenty of good, flat land ready for development, plus it already has a port, airport, hospital, uni, etc, in place.
      3. Geraldton region in WA. Again, good open spaces, basic services already in place, and loads of potential employment opportunities. Would also be a good place to develop a special economic zone due to its proximity to Asia.
      Another region I would like to be further developed is the Darwin region. If its port were to be expanded, and transit routes from the SE to Darwin improved, it would make sense to grow Darwin’s port into our gateway to maritime trade.

    • Shifter says:

      11:53am | 19/04/10

      Regarding #3, based on the amount of jobs in WA’s northwest wouldn’t i be more prudent to look further north than Geraldton? Iron mining in the Pilbara requires a rather lage population of workers, many of whom are in FIFO roles.

      If a new city with infrastructure and facilities nearing that of Perth were to be constructed in the Karatha/Port Hedland area you might see a much quicker take-up thatn anywhere else in the country. This could also tie into your Darwin thoughts as well.

    • shabangabang says:

      01:06pm | 19/04/10

      Good point. Geraldton not as far north as first thought. Karratha would be a better area.

    • Rev says:

      08:37pm | 19/04/10

      shabangabang you’re spot on with Townsville.  Having lived there for a while the place is ridiculously well set up for further growth.  It’s built on a massive plain of which the city itself takes up a fraction.  The ADF have a strong presence - I believe they are the biggest employer in the area. 

      Regarding Karratha…would that not be a bit too extreme in the weather stakes?  I struggle getting outside up there (or PH) for work, but at least I know I leave the place after a couple of weeks each time!

    • mareeS says:

      01:06am | 20/04/10

      Shouldn’t you ask people who live in these places for their opinions on your proposals?

      The thing I really dislike about capital city experts is that they always know what’s best, which is why we got into this migration overstretch in the first place.

      None of you thought to ask what the rest of us think.

    • Shifter says:

      06:26pm | 21/04/10

      @Rev, regarding climate, the UAE has three cities above 750,000 with a climate generally hotter and harsher than WA’s North West. It also has a large migrant population made of expat Aussies, Yanks and Poms. I’m sure Karratha wouldn’t be too bad for the Asian migrants that already populate parts of that area.

      Modern climate control devices make living pretty bearable in most places, hot or cold. To power them, abundant sunlight lends itself to all forms of solar generation and it’s not too far from a couple of uranium mines…

    • acotrel says:

      06:00am | 02/01/11

      You could easily fit Australia’s current population between Goulburn and Albury.  The phobia about ‘big Australia’ is townie bullshit!

    • Far out says:

      08:45am | 19/04/10

      Typical idiot, nearsighted NIMBY attitude with no clue about the bigger picture. As soon as the economy starts going down due to tapering demand they’ll start blaming the gubbahment and ask why they didn’t do something.

      ll the infrastructure we needed could have been built if the gubbahment wasn’t afraid of vocal self-interested un-elected action groups.

    • Jack Thomas says:

      10:57am | 19/04/10

      Nimby or just realistic Far Out?

      Labor neglected to even look up the word infrastructure in its ‘stimulus package’, preferring the sugar hit of $900 Harvey Norman or Bali travel vouchers, pink batts and over priced school tuck shops.

      Albanese is either a moron, or thinks we all are, because his portfolio includes national infrastructure and he actually claimed bike paths as the major infrastructure item in the stimulus package..

      Albanese should be hung out to dry on this issue, lack of infrastructure sits with him and he is asleep at the wheel. As usual, journo’s just lap up his pressers and don’t query.

      Why not actually put some restrictions on the boatloads of economic advancers (sorry, refugees) and tell them where they can live and work (ie. regional cities, farms)? 

      Instead of rushing to house them in inner city locations as they do and sit on benefits, they could actually be forced to earn their spot here, rather than demand their way in?

      The fact is, we don’t have any responsibility to citizens from other countries in terms of giving them our money, giving them a job, health care, etc.

      The hand-wringing refugee advocates won’t tell you that, but our taxes are being taken away from locals health, housing, etc. to pay for refurbishing Christmas Island, etc., feeding these people, etc.

      Asylum seekers pay an average of $10,000 to hop across several countries then arrive here. They then suck up our taxes in the form of free accommodation, food, security to host them, government staff to process them, etc. Millions of dollars. For what?

      Delaying processing of Afghans and Sri Lankans for 6 months is a huge cost to us, no one seems to have asked Rudd how many millions of dollars that amounts to?

      Where is all this extra money coming from otherwise?

      Not investing in infrastructure to make your life better, that’s what.

    • rohan says:

      07:18am | 21/04/10

      @Jack Thomas:

      Are you the only one paying taxes?

      I would rather pay for the refugees than pay for some contractor ripping the government by building sheds instead of schools, etc etc

      Besides, the number of refugees are miniscule compared to other countries - you should be ashamed of jumping up and down on whats basically a trickle of what other countries are doing.

    • ab says:

      08:35am | 19/04/10

      The “new cities” are an easy problem - we can look at the second- third- fourth- fifth- most populous cities in each state. In NSW, you would have Newcastle, Wollongong, and Goulburn and Wagga Wagga, and in Queensland it’s even better, because they have a lot of cities along the coast with similar populations. Better still, people won’t need a lot of expensive incentives to immigrate into those specific cities because of their tropics value.

      Cities just need to be built without sprawl which means development in the inner-city areas, which includes high-rise apartments. It means that new infrastructure has to be built which also costs less if the population is concentrated in the city-centres. The costs are paid by taxes which are not only from current citizens but the new ones as well. As for water, water tanks need to be installed in more homes, and in NSW, we might have an excuse to really use that desalination plant!

      The solution to having a larger population isn’t difficult - how do you imagine they do it in other countries with much less space than Australia like the Netherlands and even those with more, like the US or Canada? Australia is not overpopulated with people but with space. We have one of the lowest population densities in the world and there are cities with higher populations than Australia’s entire population.

      So if we can manage it well, there’s no reason why we can’t reap all the benefits of a larger population, including a stronger economy, and even as humanitarians, we can take in more refugees and then potentially give less foreign aid, or redirect it to improvement of Aboriginal living conditions (though I doubt with Labor or Liberal in power this would ever happen).

    • bill says:

      08:38am | 19/04/10

      Why stop at 2050? Do we dare not think further ahead - or is that “not our problem”? Will the population growth magically stop at 36 million? Or 46 million? Or 100 million? Not likely.

    • Bart says:

      02:31pm | 19/04/10

      bill. Futurist George Freeman reckons that near the end of the century underpopulation will be the problem. By 2050 all developed nations will have negative birthrates and by 2100 even the most undeveloped will follow suit. Countries will have to compete for immigrants.

    • R James says:

      08:40am | 19/04/10

      Continues exponential population growth obviously isn’t sustainable. It’s time all governments recognised this and did something about it. I see no reason for any further population growth anywhere. It has to stop sometime, otherwise mother nature will do it for us, and she can be very cruel. It’s already happening in some places where people simply starve to death. Australia should immediately drastically cut immigration - the cause of most of our population growth. Sydney is already needing desalinated water to supplement our supply. Don’t think increased population won’t centre on the cities.

    • Woza says:

      09:00am | 19/04/10

      Popular opinion on this issue should not be considered.  The reason:

      People are idiots.

      It should be environmental and agricultural scientists who make this decision and I can guarantee you the verdict will be “0% growth or less by 2050”

    • Azz says:

      08:51am | 19/04/10

      I guess you’re “people” too.

    • Louis McLennan says:

      09:15am | 19/04/10

      What he said. Except the people are idiots part, optional voting would probably make people look much smarter. If it came to a confidential vote I’m sure people would tell them no. However, in a day where saying anything is deemed racist or similar it only makes sense that these people would be uncomfortable expressing a real opinion. This ain’t china and cities won’t just appear.

    • Michael says:

      09:44am | 19/04/10

      And so are you Azz.

    • the truth says:

      10:24am | 19/04/10

      Its funny people say we dont want to turn into a US, China, UK or India because we dont have the infrastructure and its all going to go to hell, but its only with population growth that these countries became prosperous.

    • R James says:

      12:38pm | 19/04/10

      The truth says - so you are happy with changing our lifestyle to match that of India and China?

    • Woza says:

      02:40pm | 19/04/10

      The point Azzy is that if you ask someone what they think the population of Austalia should be they’ll pull a nice round figure out of their arse while having no understanding of what the growth constraints in this country are.  Really, why is 30 million ok but 35 isn’t?

      It shouldn’t be a decision based on the result of a poll.

    • the truth says:

      01:33am | 20/04/10

      R James, we will never be like india or china, we will not even get close, funny how you didnt mention the UK or US… We would more than likely be similar to the US in terms of infrastructure and size and we would have our own culture and what would be wrong with that?

    • Steve says:

      08:44am | 19/04/10

      My Kids (seventh generation born here) will probably never be able to buy house as it’s going now! My friend lives in his car because property mania has ruined any chance of him renting a cheap house.I think we should be getting rid of some of the people we have given a home to…I don’t think they have brought us anything but expense and congestion and if the miners don’t have enough workers then bad luck! All this growth is just making everything worse.

    • my name says:

      10:53am | 19/04/10

      I hate to invoke godwins law but that sounds very nazi-esque.

    • CC says:

      12:39pm | 19/04/10

      wow, talk about a sense of entitlement, Steve, perhaps growth should have stopped before convicts slaughtered those who were ,say a hundred generations born here? Perhaps YOU are the ‘people we have given a home to’ ... and if you feel outraged at this comment, then do not offer up someone elses rights to be here.

    • Woza says:

      02:17pm | 19/04/10

      Please CC.  Invasion’s happen.  In Europe they’ve all invaded each other that many times no-one can really claim to be an original anything anymore.  I’m sure if China decided to invade Australia they wouldn’t put much stock in the ‘but we were here 1st (2nd)’ argument. 

      People just need to get over it and assimilate.  This discussion is about science, not entitlement.

    • my name says:

      01:37am | 20/04/10

      woza, steve is clearly talking about entitlement and not science, there is nothing scientific about anything that he is saying, assimilation is quite the word do you even know what it means? you may have not used it in anger but many people before you have, they have used it to justify their immediate social constructs with out realising where there surroundings have been derived.
      Steve, have you ever eaten a kebab? chinese food? indian? have you ever watched a foreign tv show on tv? To say that “they” have not brought us anything other than “expense and congestion” is just plainly ignorant and naive.

    • Hallie says:

      09:24am | 20/04/10

      I don’t think he’s talking about a particular group of people being less entitled to live here. He’s not being a racist. All he’s saying is that we accept unskilled immigrants and encourage people to pump out babies more readily than we can support them. As a consequence, we have a lot of people in this country on welfare, not enough jobs to go around and housing is expensive.

      It’s not a question of who is more deserving and entitled- of who ought to go. It’s just a question of there not being enough for everyone. We are at the stage now where lots of people -immigrants and native born- simply don’t have the opportunity to earn the bare necessities, let alone live comfortably. It’s not about being undercut by immigrants who will try harder or work for less. Sometimes the situation is so bad now that you just never get a chance in the first place- be it to own a home (a luxury in my eyes), or to rent one (somewhat more of a necessity). Lots of people I know are homeless too, and not for want of trying.

      I don’t think you can draw a line and say ‘these Australians don’t deserve to be here- they should leave’. But what you can do is slow/stop unskilled immigration and population growth until we can support the people we have.

    • Hallie says:

      09:24am | 20/04/10

      I don’t think he’s talking about a particular group of people being less entitled to live here. He’s not being a racist. All he’s saying is that we accept unskilled immigrants and encourage people to pump out babies more readily than we can support them. As a consequence, we have a lot of people in this country on welfare, not enough jobs to go around and housing is expensive.

      It’s not a question of who is more deserving and entitled- of who ought to go. It’s just a question of there not being enough for everyone. We are at the stage now where lots of people -immigrants and native born- simply don’t have the opportunity to earn the bare necessities, let alone live comfortably. It’s not about being undercut by immigrants who will try harder or work for less. Sometimes the situation is so bad now that you just never get a chance in the first place- be it to own a home (a luxury in my eyes), or to rent one (somewhat more of a necessity). Lots of people I know are homeless too, and not for want of trying.

      I don’t think you can draw a line and say ‘these Australians don’t deserve to be here- they should leave’. But what you can do is slow/stop unskilled immigration and population growth until we can support the people we have.

    • CC says:

      11:38pm | 20/04/10

      Hailie - I am responding to Steve’s need to include ‘seventh generation’ to his children, and in writing that, THERE IS an expectation of entitlement. Further Haillie, you’re making significant assumptions about whom Steve references. He DOESN’T specify who these ‘people’ are (skilled or unskilled) the only important distinction he does make is that his children are seventh generation and by a logical implication those who are not , are the ‘people’ he speaks of. I appreciate your point (and I do think it’s valid) but that wasn’t Steve’s point and I’m not going to justify his xenophobia and neither should you…although perhaps now you have enlightened him with an argument that is less ignorant.

    • J says:

      08:46am | 19/04/10

      Tasmania is a good option. It has the slowest level of population growth than any other state, an ageing population and plenty of natural resources.

    • Tassie Devil says:

      09:16am | 19/04/10

      If the greens had their way Tasmania would have zero population and the whole state would be locked up with a go away sign on the gate.

    • coco says:

      12:19pm | 19/04/10

      No No No don’t come to Tassie. The weather is terrible, the food and wine is atrocious and the beaches are ghastly.

    • Are we really that stupid? says:

      09:00am | 19/04/10

      Lets grow grow grow grow grow .... I’d like to see 100 trillion people on this planet in 50 years ... nothing could possibly be wrong with that. Throughout history it has always been proven that mass human presence is good for everyone and everything.

    • Mike says:

      10:23am | 19/04/10

      What, all wars aside you mean?

    • Say no to open-cut says:

      09:22am | 19/04/10

      I’m sure any new city location will be inhibited by the current govt policy of short-term profit/long-term wasteland runaway open-cut mining in significant coastal areas particularly the central coast and Hunter region. Coal-mining in these areas is an environmental disaster. It’s disturbing to know that 100% of Australia is divided into mining claims which may be tolerable if these are underground but greedy corporates and govt are increasing allowing cheaper open-cut options.

    • martin says:

      09:07am | 19/04/10

      I’d like to see immigration cut to 30k-100k. Where does all this money go to anyway? Is the average person benefitting from it? Or is their life just a whole lot harder? If you compare now with the 70s and 80s before the drastic changes that resulted from massive immigration occurred it’s the latter.

      If you want more money to spend on the ageing boomers you can always tax non essentials like fast food, cable tv, the internet, expensive clothes, whatever.

      The boomers need to wake up and see what a burden they’ve become and get in on the debate and make some concessions.

    • Michael says:

      10:05am | 19/04/10

      Martin, do you not think that the “boomers” who have worked hard all their life and paid their taxes have as much right as the previous generations to be supported by their government once they retire? Lets face it, they never had the baby bonus or first home buyers grant given to them. Maybe we should stop these goverment hand outs instead of pointing the finger at the boomers.

    • martin says:

      11:06am | 19/04/10

      They didn’t need the first home buyers grant or the baby bonus, they had houses for about two dollars. I think they’ve become quite demanding in their old age and in order to make a lower immigrant intake a viable option I think they need to make some concessions.  This is based on the assumption that we need immigrants to pay the taxes to be spent on welfare and health when possibly we could cut tax expenditure elsewhere. I don’t exactly know, I haven’t seen the budget lately.

      Regardless I’m all for stopping the first home buyers grant which simply inflates and exacerbates house prices and the baby bonus which seemingly encourages the sort of people to breed that aren’t exactly ideal.

    • Robert says:

      12:34pm | 19/04/10

      Martin

      My house didn’t cost two dollars and we put up with damn all infrastructure until we paid for it. You enjoyed the infrastructure to date that we paid for. Now it’s your turn to pay and apparently you don’t like it!

    • PatC says:

      01:07pm | 19/04/10

      Martin… ohh what’s the use of trying… you’re an idiot.

    • ILR says:

      08:29am | 20/04/10

      Geez Martin, watched “Logan’s Run” once too often?

    • Hallie says:

      09:32am | 20/04/10

      Baby boomers never had it as hard as us. If I had been born a baby boomer, I wouldn’t be couchsurfing because rent is impossibly expensive, trying to work a casual job because no decent work is available and paying $60k for my degree. I would have a cheap house, easy work and free tertiary education. Try being a student or a young worker these days, and make ends meet if you can (and don’t have mummy and daddy putting you up in their house).

      Baby boomers lived in a golden era of opportunity. They were able to tap into the property market early, and as a result most can now support themselves. Members of my generation on the other hand may never get the opportunity to be independent from government welfare.

      Baby boomers are a burden now, and my overworked, underpaid, locked-out-of-the-property-market generation will work its butt off from a longer working life than any other to support them in their cushy retirement.

      80’s babies- we are the generation that missed out.

    • Hedda Clark says:

      12:55pm | 20/04/10

      Martin - I am a boomer working past my retirement age and you reckon I am a burden.  Get a grip of yourself.

    • Ryan says:

      03:16am | 21/04/10

      @Hedda Clark: a boomer working well past retirement, still contributing much less than everyone else though through laundering your tax dollars through super perhaps?

    • Jocelyn says:

      09:07am | 19/04/10

      Has everyone missed the point that Mr Rudd has appointed a Minister with staff to sell his Big Australia?  Since when does a political party get away with funding its advertising, promotion, spin and propaganda out of the public purse? Also it isn’t about migrants or no migrants it is about the overall numbers and overpopulation.  Why wasn’t that specific question asked?

    • Shifter says:

      11:48am | 19/04/10

      They call it ‘policy development’. It’s beeen going on for a while now.

    • Pavlo says:

      09:25am | 19/04/10

      I want to ask an obvious question.
      Why does Australia need to grow?

      Do trees grow ad infinitum?
      Do human beings continue to grow in size and stature or do they reach a certain size, a state of equilibrium?

      Population growth for the sake of growth is not only stupid, it reeks of insanity.

    • PatC says:

      01:18pm | 19/04/10

      “Population growth for the sake of growth is not only stupid, it reeks of insanity.”

      Population growth for the sake of providing future customers/consumers when population levels are already unsustainable IS insanity.

    • Tony says:

      09:25am | 19/04/10

      We don’t need any more immigration - while we have unemployment, we have people available to be retrained.  If we do have continued immigration, we should look (and urgently) at the issues caused in France and Denmark by the same demographic we are currently allowing into Australia. 

      In terms of a new city, the location should be based on having it near an area where a large dam or dams can be built so that at least one city doesn’t have to suffer water restrictions. Part of building such a city would include transport infratstructure (fast rail, air, road) to the major transport corridors.

      Frankly, I think they should revitalise Broken Hill.

    • Coxinator says:

      09:26am | 19/04/10

      No Labor government is ever going to build a dam. Look at Victoria, plenty of appropriate places for a dam (mitchell river, otways) and they could build one the size of the Thompson (Victoria’s biggest dam) for $1billion. But instead they build a desal plant which uses exorbitant amounts of energy for $3billion. What hope have we got of getting of getting reasonable infrastructure when governments won’t make common sense decisions.

    • rohan says:

      07:17am | 21/04/10

      Are you talking about race? Perhaps we should think about the current demographic who are unemployed and replace them with more of the new demographic that is coming into Australia?

    • David says:

      09:27am | 19/04/10

      It would appear the government is already listening to the people who want new immigrants to be housed in a new city far away on the WA coast, with announcement that this week that many new immigrants will begin their life in Australia living in Curtin

    • heather says:

      09:53am | 19/04/10

      If we want to populate the nation, why not populate by the good old fashion way?

    • Steve says:

      10:51am | 19/04/10

      Good call Heather, pants down everyone.

    • Observer says:

      11:13pm | 17/06/10

      “...why not populate by the good old fashion way? “

      If Stephen Fielding had his way, it would be compulsory. State-owned wombs anyone?

    • Macca says:

      09:11am | 19/04/10

      We can’t grow Canberra? The Capital City of the World’s biggest island has about 12 residents, half of whom work for the PM. ACT Government can’t introduce some incentives for Business to locate themselves there? Canberra already has a quality university and big roundabouts.

      realistically, somewhere in between Newcastle and Gold Coast would be ideal (Coffs Harbour?) or South of Wollongong and North of Canberra (Goulbourn, as Ms Maguire noted).

      Anywhere north of Melbourne ideal? Albury?

    • andrew says:

      09:30am | 19/04/10

      Where ever this new city will be built, I hope they build it from scratch and not from an existing town.  I would even consider living in this new city, if it is a NEW city.

      Just think about all the mistakes in our current cities.  Hopefully the town planners learn from these mistakes and build the “perfect” city to live in.  Amazingly efficient public transport.  No such thing as peak hour traffic problems.  World leading education and health institutions. 

      Sure I can dream of this utopia place to live, and I am aware that it probably wont happen as all levels of government will find ways for perfection not to happen.

    • Simon says:

      09:17am | 19/04/10

      Sounds like time for another multi function polis.

      OK maybe not. But here is a suggestion - the most densely populated land mass on the planet is the island of Java. Not saying we should considered these densities or life styles in Australia, but if Java can support 220 Million people, perhaps the tropics of Australia, with abundant water and land (not to mention it is the closest part of the country to the rest of the world) could be considered for supporting a population of 10 to 15 million. That alone would get us near the 35 million mark and it would be on the communication and transport spine between south eastern Australia and Asia. 

      Of course this needs to overcome major issues of natural beauty, native title a very remote start point. But these, and similar, issues are common across the country.

    • Michael says:

      09:28am | 19/04/10

      I noticed how they mentioned Cowra (lachlan Valley) If anyone knows the area i doubt the already empty Wyangla would be able to cope (4% full)

    • Shane says:

      09:48am | 19/04/10

      Places such as Ballarat and Bendigo in Victoria need to be utilised more for immigrants and built up more as a home for big business that seeks to move to Australia from overseas. These are great cities, within public transport of Melbourne (if proper public transport infrastructure existed) that could become great alternatives to Melbourne, just as pretty to live in and great communities.

    • isis says:

      09:51am | 19/04/10

      How do we feed them? Why do we need them? Overpopulation is depleting all the Earth’s resources. Countries like China, Japan and India need to take responsibility for their massive populations not billet them out to us.  How could we need so many immigrants when our lifestyles are being eroded and there is a reported 40% unemployment rate for under 25s?
      Our population has already rapidly increased yet prices and taxes have never been higher. The government is, again, lying to say we will pay more taxes if we don’t increase our population. If we need money, maybe we should only let in rich immigrants who can explain how they earned their wealth. Or just maybe we could reduce the size of our bureaucracy, government waste, and the number of politicians we have.

    • coxy says:

      10:21am | 19/04/10

      Farmers are currently being paid ridiculously low prices for wheat and milk, and the reasons cited by traders is that there is a worldwide glut or oversupply of these commodities. Wheat and milk are two staple foods of western civilisation. I don’t think being unable to feed people is really an issue.

    • Glen says:

      12:53pm | 19/04/10

      Err… Japan has an ageing and shrinking population. Research before you post.

      Using immigration to prop up and support continued growth is really a false economy.

      One day the population will stabilise and even shrink and the bigger it is the harder it will fall (economically).

    • Wirewolf says:

      04:04pm | 19/04/10

      Japan is following the population pattern of most other developed societies; low birth rates, aging population, and falling overall population. But unlike other such countries, Japan will not seek to replenish its population through immigration for cultural reasons and well justified concerns about the wisdom of multiculturalism as seen in other developed societies. They know (unlike us) that if you replace Japanese people with people from other places, Japan stops being Japan and becomes something else. They have made the decision that they would rather retain their national culture and identity, even if it costs them economically over the long term. We on the other hand, are content to sell out our culture and identity for moar people and moar economic growth in the short term, even if it changes our society in ways we do not like in the long term.

    • isis says:

      05:24pm | 19/04/10

      The Japanese government has been encouraging its citizens to have more children despite their massive population of around 127,000,000.

    • Wirewolf says:

      11:59pm | 19/04/10

      @Isis:
      That’s because they are at the beginning of a precipitous decline in population and they are trying to offset it some degree. Even so, their overall population is going to fall over the next several decades no matter what they do now. Japan is in a completely different situation to China and India, whose populations are still growing and will continue to grow in the foreseeable future; implying that Japan’s circumstances are similar to them is simply wrong.

    • Gordon Akman says:

      09:40am | 19/04/10

      This is a ridiculous debate. Australia could support many more people. If you paid over half a million dollars for a crumby house an hour + peak hour traffic drive from where you work you can blame yourself for being a failure.

      There will be a move away from big cities over the coming decades. What has previously been the catalyst for large population increases in cities has been employment opportunities. The internet has, and will continue to at a far greater pace, make the need for living in a major city redundant. I have a website. A voip phone. A national 1800 number. What does it matter whether I am sitting in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne etc. I could be sitting in a home office on the Gold Coast.

      Look where the jobs are in Australia. The mining and resource boom has provided jobs in regional areas. I would be interested to get Bernard Salt’s view on this. The role of the major industrialized city has changed for ever. It may be good to live in a major city if you have a young family and want your children to attend particular schools and universities. It may suit you if you are elderly and want immediate access to certain medical facilities. I think you are going to see the growth of the satellite city 1-2hrs drive from major cities. A prime example is the gold Coast.

    • Les says:

      09:41am | 19/04/10

      To Azz: if you want to educate others using the numbers - first learn how to use them properly. Your “analysis” is two orders of magnitude off - because you obviously do not know how many meters are in a kilometer.

      “15,144 people can stand shoulder-to-shoulder along one kilometer.”  - yes, if they a Liliputs who are 6cm wide.

      I do not care about “how many” - it just makes me laugh when somebody tries to figure out things waaaaaaay above his head…

    • Mike says:

      10:37am | 19/04/10

      You don’t need numbers to tell you the story anyway. I’ve lived in Asian countries and I know what ‘overcrowding’ is. Look at Hong Kong, pretty well-off place, yet a lot of its citizens have chosen to move to Australia. Why would they want to move here? Ask them what the main reasons are! Better yet, if you like crowded cities, move there and become naturalized. Just don’t insist that we have to do that to every place on earth.

    • Micko says:

      09:59am | 19/04/10

      think, we cannot generally supply the water we need, and our land mass is largely dry and arid, fish stocks are under severe strain. Can our ecology handle any more growth?
      We only need growth to feed our economy, to prosper. i think this means, we need more population to make money, but this has to stop - Profit at what cost?, or our ecology will fail and it will all end in tears

    • Fred Bloggs says:

      09:59am | 19/04/10

      You don’t!
      Spend a bit of money and fly ‘em back to where they came from, then give ‘em application papers to migrate legally

    • BobDickAndHarry says:

      10:02am | 19/04/10

      I do not want Australia any bigger than it is already. Growth for its own sake serves no purpose. The infrastructure for health, transport and communication not to mention housing is already stretched beyond acceptable. Australian government should focus on removing this stretch for the population it already should represent instead of increasing this stretch by advocating huge population. Also, not seeing social issues just shows shortsightedness of the responders. Go and visit France with 3million Muslims who refuse to integrate with the society. And if you think that few millions of Chinese, who cannot even say “hello” in English are not a problem - think again. What gives me the right to criticise migration like that? I am a migrant, but you would not know. Yes, I have an accent but I have embraced being Australian. I understand cultural diversity but I do not understand religious or cultural separation, and unfortunately with some groups of people that is exactly what we are getting (namely Muslims who refuse to accept our secular style of society and Chinese, who are so numerous they can function in this country via their own networks without ever needing to learn English) Anyone who thinks this will not lead to social dis-accord is a fool. For these two groups have hundreds, if not thousands years of migratory tradition through out the world, without ever integrating with the society that welcomed them to their home countries. Indian migration is somehow different. They bring a lot of skill and seem to integrate a lot better. However, there is a large percentage of them who live here but consider India home. They send their children back to India for many years for Indian upbringing and they also return to India for marriages. To me, if you live here, Australia should be your home.
      PS: returning to the main story. Even if you place migrants in new “settlement” cities, how do you think you are going to keep them there? We live in a free country. They will live for main capital cities in no time, as that is where work and their social connections will lead them.

    • Aneesha says:

      02:13pm | 19/04/10

      I agree, I am a migrant myself, but am very Australian in my language and thinking and I call myself an Aussie anyday ! We need to close this “open policy” to asylum seekers, they are abusing our system and we, working Aussies are paying for this. Unbelievable ! This govt has done nothing to curb the problem long term. Have a controlled migration system where we can pick who we want, and why, ie what skills do they bring to our country and how well will they integrate? Drive through Bankstown, Cabramatta and Liverpool - you’ll know what I mean. Australia can learn from Singapore in many ways, the S’porean govt allocates housing based on a blended ethnic suburban - it is very very hard to find one dominated race living in an area - you’ll find a good mix of every background which is what we need to do…This won’t happen overnight, but can in many years to come. I think it’s time to control this situation !

    • Peter says:

      09:52am | 19/04/10

      Why is there so much handwringing over this?  It is the cultural issues which Australians seem to be leery of, not racist issues. 

      If our workforce runs low the simplest solution is to issue temporary work visa’s and enforce them!  Do the job that needs doing and then… go away. 

      Pay them their wages and send them back to their own countries.  Align medicare benefits with the temp work visa’s and when the work runs out, or the applicant is deemed unsuitable, put them on planes and send them home.

      A lot of countries in the rest of the world use these tactics to solve their problems and also keep their own cultures alive and thriving.

    • Tony says:

      11:33am | 19/04/10

      +1

      Good call

    • tyu says:

      09:54am | 19/04/10

      Both the Liberals and Labor party support a ‘big’ Australia because that’s what the Business groups need to make rich people even richer. The only way to stop population growth is to vote for the small Nationalist/ protectionist parties or the environmental parties.

    • B S Goh says:

      10:16am | 19/04/10

      The no 1 global problem is the continual population growth. We should contribute to reduce this global problem and not let our population rise as projected. China is the only subcontinent that has managed population growth.

      We in Australia must developed effective policies to move part of the population to the North and Northwest where there is plenty of water.

      China build Shenzhen a city larger than Sydney from a small village. We can build new cities in the North and Northwest where the water is,

      We should not allow our population to grow as projected if we cannot move people out of Sydney and Melbourne

    • Jason says:

      10:16am | 19/04/10

      We can’t keep growing our major cities like Melbourne, Sydney etc. These cities have similar urban footprints to other densely populated cities like London or Hong Kong. The difference with Australia is the longtime obsession with the quarter acre block of land, only recently has there been a shift to smaller blocks, apartments or town house living in Australia. Clearly, new cities and maybe even new states need to be subdivided and built from scratch to decentralise the population and to create new economic and commercial hubs. It’s absurd that the government would want a large population without announcing the provisions for new cities. Sure there is the issue of water but isn’t that what desalination plants are for, if there can be cities like Las Vegas, Phoenix or Riyadh built in the desert, I think Australians can learn from these examples.

    • Mike says:

      10:32am | 19/04/10

      I’ve heard this argument a lot, but I always ask, if you can have a bigger block of land, why not? Why would people want to be sold the idea that they have to give that up? It gives you more of a sense of space which alleviates stress and provides more opportunity for r&r on your own property. I don’t want my neighbour’s living room window a metre away from mine. If we weren’t bringing in so many new home seekers to settle in the same few cities it wouldn’t be a problem.

    • Tony says:

      11:55am | 19/04/10

      Jason, there is enough land here for those born here to have a quarter acre block. It is the greedy developers who are telling us we don’t want it. I have a half-acre, don’t want my neighbours any closer and I know they feel the same way. 

      If you want to live cheek-by-jowl, then how about YOU move to Hong Kong and those of us who want a bit of space will stay. That way we both get what we want. Your way, only you do.

    • Mike says:

      10:27am | 19/04/10

      This debate has everything to do with the economy and nothing to do with qualifty of life. Our goverment would sell our souls to ensure we have a strong economy. For anything to change it would mean our whole economic model would have to change. Unsustainable growth is simply..well unsustainable.
      If we think we have a baby boomer problem now, wait until 2050!!

    • Douglas de la Rosa says:

      10:29am | 19/04/10

      please don’t let the land of OZ turn out like the U S A——keep it as it is

    • Andrew says:

      10:31am | 19/04/10

      What is this “should” business? To me, it is like asking what the population of asteroids should be between Mars and Jupiter. Why is it relevant?

    • Murrin Klim says:

      10:16am | 19/04/10

      Your all fools, you were obviously not affected by the recession we had to have in 1991, where school leavers and UNI students were unemployed for years. Economic growth cannot continue indefinitely and we will be hit by another recession once the demand for our raw materials dries up. Forget about the big Australia until we become the big innovator and a world class leader in new technologies. Maybe then you can start growing the population… even then most of the migrants we attract are service sector blue collar workers….so what’s the point?

    • Gazza says:

      11:17am | 19/04/10

      You’re the fool Murrin. Don’t you know anything about basic economics? If we didn’t have those service sector migrants companies would be closing tomorrow due to their inability to get workers. Then you’re into negative growth territory which will affect the jobs and lifestyles of Australians already here. Then if and when the demand on resources does dry up who is going to be left to become the innovator that you want? All the unemployed people? A rising population equals growth and growth equals jobs. Its a circle. The debate is about how we provide for the growing population. You see people are talking about building new cities, how many jobs do think something like that would create? Answer: lots. Do you understand?

    • shabangabang says:

      11:13am | 19/04/10

      Do you not think the impact of our next recession would be dampened if there is an increased demand for those resources locally due to an increasing population? We could domestically use the resources for the same purposes that the Chinese, Japanese, etc use them for. If they can do it, why can’t we?

    • Murrin says:

      02:27pm | 19/04/10

      Gazza, If you want to test your economic theory in the real world go and live in an a resource rich populated country like Brazil and see how your economic principles of more people and more growth translates…people are as poor as ever (incase you have not realised).  They built a whole new city in the 50s known as Brasilia. Plenty of innovators in that country…I think not…my point is you need a strong technologically based country to support a large population ...Australia is not. Anyhow how you gonna fund your new city ...virtual money? How is building a city going to produce export income and increase savings per-head of population within Australia….? Sounds like a banana republic to me…

    • Joan Mohr says:

      10:17am | 19/04/10

      If Kevin and his team were made to house,a few of the people in their own homes, who are coming here willy nilly, they would see how different they are from us. These people, most of them, are used to a war in their own country. Put them together, millions of them, and we will see a change for the worse in our own living standards

    • BobDickAndHarry says:

      10:37am | 19/04/10

      Jason, the “obsession with the quarter acre block of land” is a level of lifestyle quality. These smaller blocks and high density housing do not represent quality. They represent opportunistic development practices maximising the profit for developers. This is not a result of “desire” it is an effect of short supply in light of demand.

      In my previous post I forgot to mention the impact on education. Our universities are already not able to accept many students and places in good high schools are starting to be an issue too. Let’s also not forget that people need more than roof over their heads and a job. We also need to advance culturally. And no, McDonalds,KFC etc are not a restaurant and a shopping centre mall is not an entertainment venue. Sitting in front of Facebook is not a social interaction, unless you can convert it to real life encounters with your group of friends.

      To B S Goh: Chinese dictatorial and totalitarian government can force people to relocate to any village they wish. Do not forget we live in a different country. People in here have free will and for any new city to be successful it would need to have a natural, organic attraction. Such as good lifestyle, job and education opportunities supported by excellent infrastructure and health services.

    • andrew says:

      10:25am | 19/04/10

      I’d suggest building more high-rise housing in the sutherland/ cronulla area & settling all 16 million extra people there. They are all friendly folk down there & only too willing to share.

    • miria says:

      10:43am | 19/04/10

      Rudd’s idea scares the hell out of me and the lack of consultation withth peoples scarier.
      We hould hve a referdum n heissue.We have referendums on stupid things lke shopping houra and DLS .

    • Peter Dagg says:

      10:34am | 19/04/10

      I think all immigration should stop and only White People allowed to live in Australia. All the rest of them are just here to Use Us as a Cash Cow.

    • sean says:

      03:58pm | 19/04/10

      most of the people commenting on here seem to be the type who would agree with you. they just dont have the gall to say it openly.

    • Douglad de la Rosa says:

      04:42am | 20/04/10

      smart ,  you dont want to land up like ZIM or SouthAfrica. then get pushed out later—stop immigration now before it is to late. a U S A friend

    • Brad says:

      10:51am | 19/04/10

      Immigrants will not stay in this new city you propose. We will let them in, and they will all flock straight to Melbourne or Sydney. Remember many of them are coming from countries that have huge overcrowding problems (eg India), so Sydney and Melbourne would be a dream for them. They would be like country towns. Don’t be so naive to think they will stay in this new town you build for them.

    • Rossco says:

      11:00am | 19/04/10

      Well theres not much room in Adelaide, but that’s ok, no migrants would really come here anyway.

    • Tania says:

      10:44am | 19/04/10

      Big Australia?  It seens we are becoming BIG INDO-CHINA. If rudd thinks this is such a great idea, we should put all new migrants in his suburb. How can this be good for the country? (there are so many negatives) We should be encouring current Australians to become educated and create a good financial environment where the women of Australia feel they can stay home and have babies. We should be supporting current Australians, so we can grow as a country, not just let anyone in. I have seen the changes in my suburb, and surrounding suburbs. And sorry to say, but I cannot see a positive.

    • Rex Whitford says:

      11:03am | 19/04/10

      The reality is that if you want to keep your way of life at an afordable level then you are going to need future tax payers to shouldre the bill or the young to middle aged will be faced with higher taxes and less to show for it as we fund a generation of boomers who predominately did not pay for or did not have the same incentives or opportunity so save for the funding of their retirement.

      If we imigrat people who are fuly educated and mature we will wave a fortune on education costs and these people will go on to earn high incomes and pay more taxes.

      We must manage this carefully, not allowing the imigration agenda to be high jacked by unwanted gate crashes with no education and a village mentallity. We also need polititions to properly manage our water supply so we can have expanded and well designed infrastructure beyond the major cities so we do not end up looking like Bombay in 20 years time.

    • laurie says:

      10:49am | 19/04/10

      Some very strange comments on this topic with people to land ratio statistics by Azz. Whilst Australia has vast amounts of space where nobody lives, the main reason for that is that they are unliveable.  Ethinicity and skills are immaterial. We do not have the water in WA for the approx 2 million people living here now.  Where is it going to materialise from to cover millions of more people?

    • Joan Mohr says:

      10:50am | 19/04/10

      It also seems a shame that we didn’t, when we won the war, just exterminate the leaders(after all that is what war is all about) and let the clever Japs and Germans flood our country. We are doing just that without knowing what they can do

    • Mitchell says:

      11:32am | 19/04/10

      I think the first place to look at when talking about population growth, is infertile people and the progress we’ve made in allowing these people to have babies. That’s our biggest problem. IVF, Surrogacy, Sperm Donors all should be stopped and should be the first political issue we tackle. If you can’t parent a baby, find a way to accept it, and adopt!

    • Mitchell says:

      11:27am | 19/04/10

      I should also add not just infertile, but single parents, same sex couples should not be able to reproduce naturally, as they can’t, and should be looking at adopting.

    • N says:

      12:16pm | 19/04/10

      And don’t prolong the life of elderly people. They should be allowed to naturally die off. Once the boomers die off, that should be a good dent. Just sucking up the resources once they’ve outlived their usefulness.
      <sarc>

    • Danny says:

      11:36am | 19/04/10

      Seems lots of red necks answer this, get out and see the world.  Most of the issues we face today is because of lack of planning, we need to plan for the future and more importantly spend the money before the problems i.e. the Gold Coast had to bring the 3rd stage of their dam forward by something like 10 years and even then it was 5 years too late + they are building a de-sal plant there.  They are currently building a new 700 bed hospital and this is only because for the past 10 years the public system was a joke.  Like the Gold Coast or not it has been the fastest growing city for the past 20-30 years and planners could learn alot from there.

    • Wirewolf says:

      04:25pm | 19/04/10

      Many people have gone out and seen the world and have seen enough to know that they don’t want it to be brought here. Your attempt to conflate a distrust of the outside world with ignorance is, frankly, facile. It is perfectly possible to be educated and worldly and still disapprove of radically changing the ethnic racial mix of Australian society; if you believe that doing so will have a harmful impact on the social fabric of our society.

    • Angela says:

      11:37am | 19/04/10

      Lets all be honest with ourselves we have grown slow for a reason no children were born in large amounts until the call of arms was given, I provided two. Our populations is aging at an alarming rate and then we have water problems huge ones and not enough room already in the larger citys, I live 30 mins outside the CDB of melbourne they are not building one house on blocks now but 4 that is the situations we all face. Kevin Rudd and any other politician that thinks we can sustain numbers like that is deluded. Most migrants that have come to Australia, my parents been one set in the sixty’s have fitted in nicely and been accepted but some have the attitude that Australia somehow owes them something, a bad message is being sent if we cannot even manage our border control.

      We do not have the resources for that amount of people, the food situation in the next 15 years is been shouted as been bleak what in the world are they talking about an extra 30 million people for.

    • Cats says:

      11:39am | 19/04/10

      “Only 6 people said cultural or racial tensions could be a problem.”

      I’d say more like 6 people were willing to admit that cultural & racial tensions would be a problem, for fear of being branded racist. We all know that is one of the biggest issues. Migrants need to learn how to follow Aussie ways and this is a difficult thing for both Aussies and immigrants to achieve.

      Australia needs a Vegas! A desert city or two would definately solve a lot of the overpopulation on coastal areas. The problem standing in the way is water. Recycled water could help to solve the issue. Many people however are against drinking “other people’s shit”. The government needs to run a propaganda campaign for recycled water.

    • B S Goh says:

      11:44am | 19/04/10

      Re BobDick and Harry. I suggest you visit China and live there for 6 months and try to understand that it is a very complex country.

      For Australia to create a new city in the bush we can try closing down all the universities in Sydney and Melbourne and re-locate them in a new city say near the Ord River.

      The Saudis are building a world class university in the desert. In this modern age and with the internet we can site our top university in a new city out in the bush.

    • BobDickAndHarry says:

      01:03pm | 19/04/10

      You clearly do not understand the words “choice” and “will”. China ignores the “will” and Saudis have no “choice” and have to build in the desert. Luckily, here in Australia we do not have either of these two problems, yet.

    • Brendan Grainger says:

      11:57am | 19/04/10

      There have been no cities planned and initiated in the 21st Century. Most of the cities in Australia were planned and initiated in the 19th Century along the garden city model. Canberra was designed early in the 20th Century, and failed because it was too artificial in nature - it was a political compromise from the start, and looked pretty on a map.  Surely we have learned from past mistakes in the development of new cities.
      By the way - whatever happened to the Albury/Wodonga city which, in the 1970s, was supposed grow to accommodate 500,000.

    • acker says:

      01:20pm | 19/04/10

      I think the Albury/Wodonga idea failed because the voters there did not make it into enough of a marginal seat.

    • Malcom says:

      12:35pm | 19/04/10

      Sounds like some people here are advocating the” Brisbane Line"which Menzies did….I’ve seen alot try the lifestyle in the far north, my little town is no exception, but more often than not they leave. I like the fact that we have high humity and a variety of things that bite and sting very little infrastructure and cut off from the rest of the world when it floods….I don’t think anytime soon there will be influx of people into this neck of the woods building cities:)

    • DougB says:

      12:25pm | 19/04/10

      The solution seems fairly simple to me.  Let’s just quietly dispose of the population of Sydney.  That should free up some space, and we will lose all the violence, drugs and hatred that has bred there and ruined it.

      Then we can put in people who get along with everyone, and call them, oh I don’t know….. how about Australians.

    • Rob Haynes says:

      12:27pm | 19/04/10

      What about employment, or do these people live on unemployment benifits for the rest of their lives, we do not have enough work for the people we have as so much industry is going “off-shore”.

    • Michael says:

      01:01pm | 19/04/10

      There is no need to create a brand new city as such, instead we should encourage existing hubs to grow. The growth should be focussed around the south of Australia for obvious reasons such as existing infrastructure and proximity to ports. The planners should focus on a ‘fill the gaps’ approach whereby the regional cities in between Sydney - Canberra - Melbourne are encouraged to grow.

      Lithgow, Goulburn, Wagga, Albury, Wangaratta, Bendigo, Ballarat is where the growth needs to be. A density of cities in these areas would allow the sharing of infrastructure for necessary major projects such as (gasp) dams, and would make rail travel commercially viable.

    • MrE says:

      01:10pm | 19/04/10

      Yay…. more people… just what we want…
      Our politics are becoming American… cause thats the politics designed for “millions”, we are becoming more obsessed with money… more people… more competition…. we are also getting more scared to talk to people… .more people… more psychos…  more news on psychos…
      So yeah… more people… great… bring it on…

    • h says:

      01:31pm | 19/04/10

      It’s one of those decisions that has to balance advice from people who know what the hell they’re talking about; and the blunt “me first” requirement to make it attractive to people.

      With all that the NSW central coast seems a good option. People keep moving north from Melbourne and Sydney after all; it’s be an easy drive from both Brisbane and Sydney; good climate; already on a transport corridor; already some interest in establishing sports teams (don’t discount this, people need a bit of perochial pride and sport helps that); etc.

    • ipang says:

      01:33pm | 19/04/10

      Once simple reasons why people from crowded countries (eg. Asia) want to say in City.
      1. Shopping Mall, close to groceries and foood
      2. New comers don’t mind with crowd, or even like the crowd
      3. Close and easy transport (imagine living in Baulkham Hills 12 years ago when I first come here, waiting 30 mins for bus to come ( I have no car).

      Far is OK, as long as the transportation is good/great. if I live 200KM from where I work and there is train can travel 200KM/hr (1 hour to work), I don’t mind living outside the City.

      Build better public transport (faster and safer train), I am sure people don’t mind living far away from where they live.

    • Bubsy says:

      01:58pm | 19/04/10

      I for one endorse ANY future development.
      However there better be a standard of living that goes along with it.
      This is one of those situations that could either help australia or reeeeally stuff things up.

    • A migrant says:

      02:02pm | 19/04/10

      Who is considered to be a migrant? Are they the boat people, are they the foreign students who eventually stay here once they have finished their degree or are they the educated, white collar people like me who are here to fill a position that could not be filled by “an Australian” because of my skill set?

      I’m here on a temporary work visa together with my wife. We have moved everything across from Europe for a 4 year stay, furniture, pets, everything. This was all paid for by my employer who is the sponsor of my visa. I earn a decent salary, pay all my normal taxes like every other Australian, drive a couple of cars and rent a nice apartment in Sydney. There were a couple of reasons for us to come here, change of lifestyle, the opportunity to live in a country like Australia but also the fact that for us Australia seemed nice, friendly, welcoming. 
      Reading a number of the comments on here, especially to do with things which are normal for permanent residents/Australians, I feel I had to write our side as well as none of you will ever be in the situation of being a stranger in a foreign country.

      Some of the “extra’s” we get for being here on a visa:
      We cannot get a life insurance here, not even travel insurance.
      We pay extra for health insurance but get only limited Medicare benefits than an Australian, and yes we pay the Medicare levy AND the over 30 levy and we have a private health insurance. That’s one of the obligations of the visa.
      We’d love to adopt but are not allowed because we’re on a temporary visa.
      My wife is not allowed to perform her job here because her accreditations will not get validated by the NSW legal board, employers won’t hire her for a “normal job” because she’ll be gone in 4 years anyway. She’s a highly skilled legal professional, one of many spouse visa holders in this country, who is sitting at home because Australian companies will not hire her.
      She’d like to study instead to get accredited locally but we get charged 4x higher fees compared to what Australians pay because of the visa.
      If we would like to buy a house, not that we can with the current prices, we’d get charged a 1% penalty rate on top of the normal interest rate because we’re on a visa.

      Get the picture? I pay the same in taxes as any of you, probably more because I earn 3x the average Australian wage, get a lot less benefits and face restrictions on several basic components in life. Does that seem fair to you?

    • Scott Glennon says:

      03:11pm | 19/04/10

      Sounds like you should have stayed in the UK.

    • BTS says:

      03:38pm | 19/04/10

      I think that you won’t get much sympathy if you are earning three times the average Australian wage.

    • marley says:

      04:26pm | 19/04/10

      Well, then, make a commitment to the country, get a permanent residence visa, and all those pesky restrictions will disappear.  Shouldn’t citizens have more benefits than temporary visa holders? 

      PS I can say this, having been in more or less the same boat.

    • Pretenders says:

      08:07pm | 19/04/10

      Have a whinge why don’y ya. Sounds fair to me, you can go back anytime you like. We have enough Brits here as it is masquerading as Aussies and quite frankly I think if were going to stop immigration from anywhere, it should be Britain.

    • SHG says:

      02:18pm | 19/04/10

      Are you kidding,  “Where do we put them”..??!!!  In a country this size, I fail to understand the selfish attitude of Australians attitude towards population growth.  Only approx 2% of the land mass of Australia is populated, there’s enough water in the Northern Territory to sufficiantly transform Ethiopia, yet we see stickers on 4wd’s across the country stating “Australia, we’re full, F#@K OFF.!! ”  I’m ashamed to be an Australian..!!!

    • Wirewolf says:

      04:34pm | 19/04/10

      Why?

      We don’t owe the rest of the world any favours. Its not our responsibility to save the poor, huddled masses of the Third World from their situation. We’re not Mother Theresa in thongs. 

      While I am not unsympathetic to the circumstances of the people of the Third World, it must be recognised that we all live in a world defined by competition for finite resources and survival. Our sole obligation is to
      secure our future. Their fate is their own and our fate is ours, and it has ever been thus.

    • Cassie says:

      05:52pm | 19/04/10

      Honey, no one said that Australia is full. But our cities are! I come from a country town in southern NSW and I now live in Sydney. I hate crowds and I have no love for the city life but I had to come to get a decent job. My home town has shrunk, the jobs there consist on working at woollies or the take out shop down the road. Most people have to leave or line up at Centre Link to be able to put food on the table (not to mention many who have children to live off of the child support)  . If people migrate how are they going to survive in a country town when country people can’t? It’s nice to think that people would like to live in Darwin but it’s hot and it has lots of animals that would like to eat or poison you, and it has the same problems as our country towns with employment. I personally see no real reason to want to grow our population so large, we need to make Australia better before we send out the invites.

    • Big Dixon says:

      02:29pm | 19/04/10

      An anti immigration party will be in control of Australia well before 2050. I and many millions of others look forward to it sooner than later

    • glen says:

      02:13pm | 19/04/10

      Rudds an idiot and i voted for him before. Not again.

    • Greek Snake says:

      05:05pm | 19/04/10

      I only hope more of your type see the light.

    • S.L says:

      02:19pm | 19/04/10

      Hay NSW townie has some good points and it’s a shame big business prefers decentralisation too.
      I used to visit Tullamore, a town an hour past Parkes NSW, Population 300. Nothing more than a few houses, pub, bowling club, cop shop, mechanics, a small hospital come hostel for the aged and a main street full of derelict shops.
      It used to be the home of the biggest Holden dealer in country NSW obviously dealing with the cockys. Local business hasn’t changed and the land is still the land but everyone breaks a leg to get to the big smoke. If I could get regular work out there or in an area similar I’d be gone straight away! Trouble is so many good local businesses are candy for bigger multinational companies (think abortoirs), they buy them up then move the business to the big smoke to save cost and where there is a greater employee market.
      Townie I’m with you it they build it people will come!

    • Doug says:

      02:37pm | 19/04/10

      Projected population is less than a doubling of Austrlia NOW. Assuming a majority of growth will occur in Sydney, Melbourne and Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast, where you would expect a focus on high density, high rise buildings, the level of impact elsewhere will be modest.  Second tier cities and a handful of newbies will accommodate everyone.  Key challenges are water - no dam policies must fall by the wayside; energy - coal is king or we will endure rationed power and blackouts; did I mention nuclear - no? well, it must be on the cards as well; and better, faster transport infrastructure.  This is what gets you your very fast trains and better network of air services and better roads.  The real issue is not whether Australia can cope with such modest growth and maintain living standards. We absolutely can. It’s what happens in already poor, over-populated nations that you should focus your attention.  Yemen, Bangla Desh, Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Sudan.

    • Mike says:

      02:50pm | 19/04/10

      I thought Australia was a “free” country?
      Shouldn’t we be able to live where ever we want?
      I certainty don’t want anyone being TOLD where they are PERMITTED to live.
      (well now I say, it it might be a good idea - it will let us stop the pesky migrants from the eastern states cluttering up beautiful WA wink

    • Mick says:

      03:02pm | 19/04/10

      Geez….if it’s that bad leave! I’m sure there are plenty of highly skilled individuals willing to take your spot who aren’t going to whinge!

    • Mick says:

      03:02pm | 19/04/10

      There’s plenty of room in North Africa….ohhh that’s right, it’s basically a desert and it’s only habital on the costal fringe! It’s funny how that doesn’t seem to apply to Australia. It seems the whole country is one big lush oasis ready to filled….so people will have me believe.

    • acker says:

      03:53pm | 19/04/10

      @Mick..Lot more people in North Africa than Australia plus North Africa has the biggest desert in the world called the “Sahara” and a lot of places outside the Oz’s city’s and the coast have greenery…eg the rivers..why dont you visit the country one day ?

    • Mick says:

      04:49pm | 19/04/10

      Yes acker…a lot more people do live in North Africa…I’ve been there! Where they can live is hugely crowded and it sux . Also acker I use to live in the country and I’m acutely aware there is some green stuff out there and I would prefer to keep it that way. If you don’t like it then I suggest you move to a more crowded less green country….you’ll be much happier.

    • Andrew says:

      03:14pm | 19/04/10

      I don’t choose to live in Sydney and put up with our 3rd world roads and public transport. Businesses choose to have their head office in Sydney so the jobs are here. Sure, I would love to move a few hours down the coast but then I would not be able to do the job that I have qualifications and experience in. The government needs to offer incentives for businesses to move their head office away from Sydney. As long as houses are being knocked down to build more units, we should slow down the immigration rate. Build infrastructure first, and then move people in.

    • Skinman says:

      03:24pm | 19/04/10

      We could make Australia bigger and increase the population by a couple of million overnight.
      Just annex New Zealand - there’s already some infrastructure there so it wouldn’t be as expensive as building a new city. If we could get them to work it would be a source of cheap labour too.
      If Australia doesn’t do it, someone else will!

    • acker says:

      04:31pm | 19/04/10

      @Skinman ..why annex NZ when we have so much under utilized infrastructure around in rural Australia right here ! right now !..Cripes lets re-populate our exsisting rural towns before we start looking to build another friggin city metromess !

    • I Took Your Job says:

      04:28pm | 19/04/10

      Deport the Centrelink bogans and import more hard working migrants.

    • Mickey Maoist says:

      05:57pm | 19/04/10

      If its not practical to deport them,  at least stop encouraging them to breed by giving them money for making more baby boaglets; then replace the resultant decline in the bogan population with a more productive immigrant gene pool.

    • paul says:

      04:31pm | 19/04/10

      when will these idiot govt’s realise that the country does not have the infrastucture to support all these extra people at this time.
      Will we see all these detettion centres made into townships.
      We cant even get our act together to look after our own indigenous peoples welfare so how the hell are we to provide for all the extra immigrants these so cllaed govt leaders have blinkers on and can only see what they want to see and waht is best for them. FOOLS

    • Dave says:

      04:31pm | 19/04/10

      By 2050 australia will be made up of 55%migrants and 45% aussies if Rudds current levels of immigration continue.This is when Australia stops being Australia and becomes a junkyard of migrants.Us Aussies might as well give up now as soon it will be us driving the taxis and working night shifts in petrol stations and 7\11s

    • I Took Your Job says:

      04:39pm | 19/04/10

      I hope so!

    • they took our jooooooobs says:

      01:46am | 20/04/10

      i hope its 100%!

    • Richard says:

      04:40pm | 19/04/10

      Your comment: Anyone who has been overseas knows that we can support a lot more people than we currently do. We need more effective public transport in our major cities and a stronger focus on decentralisation, but we can do it. The water excuse is another doozy. Australia is one of the most inefficient users of water on the planet, but instead of thinking about how we use it, many say cut the population target (and economic growth) so we use less. Surely we don’t want to go down the path of Europe, where shrinking and aging populations will cause the safety net to faulter. The drawbridge mentality is all Greek to me.

    • Mr T says:

      04:42pm | 19/04/10

      What really bugs me in these debates is that all the pro-growth monkeys out there act like humans are the only species on the planet. How about we leave a bit of land for the millions of other species we share the planet with, or is the human race so collectively stupid and selfish that it doesn’t see this as necessary?

    • Alfred Deakin says:

      04:44pm | 19/04/10

      How Sydney-centric Tory : “as long as you’re prepared to live, oh, about 4,000 kms from the Opera House.”

      I lived for a time in Darwin,which is, oh, about 4,000 km from the Opera House, and you know what Tory, it was a wonderful experience in a beautiful city. Open your eyes and see that there is actually a country outside Sydney!

    • GSS says:

      04:51pm | 19/04/10

      Build a city on Thursday Island and house the new immigrants there - Out of sight out of mind.

    • Realist says:

      04:55pm | 19/04/10

      Australian governments must revisit the 1951 UN Refugee Convention which holds us to outdated Clauses and later Protocols. Times have changed and we should have our own Convention for Refugees which enables us to decide what type of belief system refugees have as well as consider their culture.  At the moment the Convention stops any consideration - it’s all or nothing unless proof of criminal behaviour.  Yet some cultures which are accepted into Australia are barbaric and cruel but we must accept these belief systems as well as house, feed and accept their values.  It is time to spend money on our own homeless amd our own desperate people and give financial aid instead of adding to the woes of Ausralia by accepting fewer immigrants and only certain refugees.

    • the truth says:

      01:53am | 20/04/10

      Its funny, “those people” are barbaric, http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_ref-immigration-refugees look at the top 20 nations that accept refugees, do you see australia in there ? no, australias at 36, this is for 2005, iran accepted almost 2 million refugees, for a country that is no where near the size of australia, has 3 times as many people and is considered a third world country, they take in more refugees than australia could even imagine, yet we call them the barbaric ones. It seems the more prosperous you are the more you whinge and the more inhuman you become. This also goes against the argument that boat people should just go to the nearest safe country, the statistics seem to indicate that they do, and we just complain about the absolute minority that come here, but we would complain if it was just 1. Who are the unhappy ones and who are the barbaric?

    • Gavin says:

      05:23pm | 19/04/10

      we don’t have smart enough politicians to cope with a big population.

    • Lorraine says:

      05:31pm | 19/04/10

      WATER!
      Can Big Kev find enough water for the population he is suggesting?
      Can Big Kev find enough food for the number of people he wants?
      Can Big Kev…...... well he’ll talk about it until he is hoarse but can he do anything…. the score is already on the board in that area!

    • Bob says:

      06:03pm | 19/04/10

      The US population will expand by a greater number of people than the total estimated 36 Million population of Australia in that same time period.  The UK with an area smaller than Victoria fits 62 million and there is actually still some country side left over, the rainfall is less than most of coastal eastern Australia as well.

    • john says:

      06:09pm | 19/04/10

      think it out, basically i think the government should be charged with cultural and racial genocide of the australian race, white and aboriginal. Because if they do this we will both disapear off the face of the earth in a very short time. Also would you like to live in a place like india or china or god help us the usa.

    • Shockadelic says:

      06:10pm | 19/04/10

      Planning? Infrastructure? As Michele (of Romy and Michelle) says: “Yeah. But ok, if those things were so easy to get, wouldn’t we already have them?

      Today’s politicians seem even less capable of planning than ever!
      Look at the street designs in the new suburbs of Western Sydney.
      They look like the crayon scribbles of a demented 3-year old raised by Jackson Pollock.

      We already have 5 million immigrants. Where do they live? Ballarat? Alice Springs? No, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

      A new city just for immigrants? A city where half the population can’t speak English? Are the street signs (for the demented scribble streets) going to be in 300 different languages?

      Enough. We don’t need a single immigrant.
      Prosperity is not about sheer population size. Some of the richest countries have small populations.

      Innovation, not immigration. That’s how Japan turned its fortunes around in half a century.

      Immigration is dead. It will soon be seen as yet another stupid economic/cultural disaster just like colonisation and slavery are.
      RIP Immigration.

    • shocked but not delic says:

      02:02am | 20/04/10

      australia was built on immigration. stop buying beer and buy a history book you philistine. Why dont you build national policy on an american teen movie? god i cant believe your actually quoting that film as a reason to halt immigration, thats seriously unbelievable.

    • Gra says:

      06:51pm | 19/04/10

      Yep, great idea to build new cities in the middle of nowhere. I wonder if anyone has given any thought as to how the residents of these new cities will be employed and who by, or are they all just going to draw the dole and live in a huge ghetto?

    • Not4You says:

      07:17pm | 19/04/10

      When Rudd’s health care reform fails he will move on to the next ‘policy’ of creating new cities in the middle of nowhere and trust me employment and other issues are the least of his concerns because why let details bog down a piss poor policy aye mate?

    • James says:

      07:14pm | 19/04/10

      Water comes from the tap, food is created in the supermarket, pollution goes in the bin and what we pump into the atmosphere goes away into space (only the bad stuff that is).  We can all do whatever we want yaaaaaaaaaaay

    • Shane says:

      08:11pm | 19/04/10

      Somewhere near the Ord river dam which has lots of water for agriculture, hydroelectric power and a city. Jobs in the mines and ports are already close by and there are airports already at Derby, Kununurra, Broome and Darwin linked by highways. Does it matter if a new city is not within 1,000 kms of Sydney or Brisbane?

    • james says:

      08:11pm | 19/04/10

      yep lets bring them all in,as long as we build nuclear power stations and a few new dams,i dont have a problem,but that wont happen because no one has the b—-s to build them,or even want 2 talk about it,so i guess we should let anymore in.end of story.

    • Scott says:

      11:09pm | 19/04/10

      I pay my taxes and have never been a burdon on society for what? The government to place more restrictions on my freedom, tax me more only to miss manage the hard earned dollars I have given them and see little in return. If Australia was a buisiness which some may argue it is then the people running it would have been shown the door a long time ago, who voted Labor? Australians need to get tough you can only say she’ll be right for so long.

    • Frank Bingle says:

      11:53pm | 19/04/10

      The progressive nuts once again fail to realize (or admit) that Australia has very limited resources for sustaining a population much greater than we presently have. They are still blaming global warming for the lack of water and the subsequent loss of much farming across the country, yet insist on opening our doors to so-called refugees from countries as arid or less arid than our own. While more and more of our food staples are imported and transported tens of thousands of miles by oil burning ships and diesel burning trucks, we are a spit away from economic disaster and starvation if oil prices were to suddenly skyrocket. To be “ecologically friendly” we should be looking at being less dependent on foreign food sources and maintaining a sustainable population. Instead, some would rather have Australia be the destination point of refugees that consume, breed like rabbits and take advantage of our welfare system that they have never contributed towards.

    • sam says:

      12:13am | 20/04/10

      Mt Gambier

    • MrX says:

      01:41am | 20/04/10

      Oh please - quit with the scarcity economics. France has a population of 60 million and a landmass that fits into Australia 20 times over. Gobsmacked? You should be. You’ve lost perspective. Australia’s landmass is not so arid that nothing can be done with it or that it couldn’t support a population half that size with proper infrastructure and a government that is forced to be a bit more competent.

      Stats indicate that migrants are extraordinarily good for innovation, which is fundamental for economic growth - the kind that doesn’t solely benefit the extremely wealthy. It is bad economics to endorse a picket fence homogeneous Australia. It’s all about the information economy now anyway - which means it doesn’t matter whether your corporate building is located in Sydney or not. It can be located anywhere - it is already globally connected. That’s why investing into broadband networks is a damn good idea.

      As for cultural ‘issues’, first generation migrants may have cultural difficulties, but their children, and children’s children learn both their own and the Aussie way. The more of those people that exist, the more that new migrant groups from the same background can learn from them. This is an implementation problem, that no one wants to address because it’s not popular with voters right now to be anything but anti-immigrants, to the point of putting words into famous figures mouths (cough cough…Mr Abbott - I don’t think Jesus did really have a direct opinion matching yours on the issue).

      Australia is looking like a stale, backwater. Wasn’t it not so long ago that we had Mr Costello trying to raise birth rates? But at the same time keeping the migrants out? Of which, we are all ‘migrants’ anyway? Don’t make me laugh.

      If there are water problems, it’s because there has never been enough of a population in existence to force governments to deal with it properly anyway.
      Scarcity thinking and fear mongering has made most commentators on this thread lose all perspective.

    • Deb H says:

      03:26am | 20/04/10

      I do not think that the answer to the problems these other countries face is that of shipping their people out. The people need to stay in their homeland and work to make change. If we take in everyone from a third world country that wants to leave we will become a third world country. How many people with nil qualifications can we support? At this rate we will not have the wonderful life we do now. Expanding the population is not the answer!

    • mick says:

      03:36am | 20/04/10

      Rudd’s runaway immigration is the same political tool turned against the voters by British NuLab; neither party could give a damn about how or what the Australian people should live like once it’s been let loose. There will be no increase in utilities to better or even match growth, just as there has not in the recent past.

    • John in Alice says:

      08:14am | 20/04/10

      Perhaps a more important question would be what are we going to feed them and what are they going to do for work?  There can only be so many CEO positions with million dollar bonuses and by 2025 there won’t be a house in Australia priced under a million dollars.

    • Timmo says:

      09:38am | 20/04/10

      Has anyone taken into consideration the possible changes which may occur in the natural world over the periods written about here. We presume that it is going to continue the way it is. It is quite possible, and with the climate change knowledge that we have been given that there will be vast changes in the structures of the lands and oceans of the world.

      There is no doubt that the world populations are out of control particularly in Asia. Just to support future populations mooted then there will have to be vast changes in Agriculture and other areas where productivity will have to be increased to accomodate increased populations that have been calculated by governments.

      When we write on these issues do we write from the basis that the Earth on which we live is going to be the same both in its structures and the natural world of which we are a part. It may well be that by Earthquakes and Volcanic Activity and the Oceans Rising as they are at the moment that new land masses may appear and others may sink under the oceans. Maybe Atlantis may rise again.!

      There are many things that can change over the next 25 to 30years and we at the moment have no control over these. Although we think that we are the chosen ones who own and control everything, it may well be the case that we are shown by the direct actions of nature that we have the same status as everything else. It is the natural world that controls our daily lives and our future existence. But we don’t know fully what the Natural World is going to throw at us. So with all our so called knowledge maybe we should consider possible changes in the Natural Fields when we are calculating our wonderful futures. Rather than worrying about all this population stuff maybe we should be thinking also, “Will future generations of humans still be here”.? Will there be life as we know it today.? Well it is food for thought for me anyway. So I’m not worried about any of it as I probably won’t be here myself. Good luck everybody!!.

    • Cheryl says:

      10:08am | 20/04/10

      Listen people, in case you haven’t noticed, Governments do what they like these days and pretend they are not seeing the discontent and disquiet from the general population about issues like this.  They are not going to do anything to change these policies unless they are absolutely forced to, which means that you and me are going to have to get off our backsides and let them know we don’t like what they’re doing and things need to change!!!  It means contacting your local federal member of parliament and letting them know you’re not happy Jan!

    • economics of immigration says:

      10:36am | 20/04/10

      the pollies are actually smarter than you and i, thats why theyre in charge of the country and your not, i bet any money if you were to run for prime minister you will begin to disagree with your own stance, once you realise the amount of money, knowledge and ideas immigration brings into the country you will understand how naive your point of view really is.

    • Atheistno1 says:

      11:39am | 20/04/10

      As if a new city is the answer to the problems of population overload. The responsibilities for maintaining a sustainable environment & sufficient resources, belong to the government. It is unfortunate that the discussion has come to a debate about what will be a matter of a great big population.

      Keep feeding a country with population & it becomes obese.

    • Atheistno1 says:

      11:42am | 20/04/10

      As if a new city is the answer to the problems of population overload. The responsibilities for maintaining a sustainable environment & sufficient resources, belong to the government. It is unfortunate that the discussion has come to a debate about what will be a matter of a great big population.

      Keep feeding a country with population & it becomes obese.

    • James says:

      01:14pm | 20/04/10

      The Australian political system and society in general have about zero chance of coping with growth well.  Any growth is occuring at a point when Australian governments are just waking up to the fact that they have let their infrastructure decline to a point at which it will be very hard (read expensive) to bring it up to scratch.

      Like a car, if they had spent money on regular servicing of the car i.e. maintaining health, education, infrastructure even if that meant going into debt then in the long term the car will last longer and cost less.  Right now they are trying to fix major structural problems and absorb more people at a record rate, it does not take a genius to see that this will not work without throwing truckloads of money at the problem.

      My prediction is that over the next 20 years we will see major problems in Australia, prices of most things will rise and the country will fragment further into the haves and the have nots.

    • Hedda Clark says:

      11:30am | 21/04/10

      Ryan - I haven’t a clue what you are talking about regarding my superannuation as I have NEVER touched any of it so I obviously am not doing what you suggest I am doing.

    • Penis Enlargement says:

      08:04pm | 16/05/10

      Oh mankind that you so much in return your post at settle time. It helped me in my assignment. Thanks Alot

    • Joe Rossi of RPData says:

      01:10pm | 17/06/10

      We need to shut the doors! Not because we don’t want more people, it is simply a matter of sustainability. We need to maintain and improve our standard of living and Australia just simply cannot support migration.

    • Di says:

      05:12pm | 17/06/10

      What? is everyone on crack? this idea assumes that Aus is Terra Nullis; it’s not (Mabo) Native Title exists over a lot of socalled ‘useless’ land; Indigenous ppl own it not KRudd; and most of it has been destroyed due to overgrazing/carp/canefields/canetoads/and especially in drought (10yrs at a stretch) no water? geezz there are some idiots out there!!

    • Paul Collins says:

      11:20pm | 17/06/10

      Ok, big fiscal problems to come with an ageing population etc along with the social unrest it may bring, so hows this?

      here is a simple 6 point plan…

      1. Increase the tax threshold to $50k per individual. This will keep the young workers happy as they will have more disposal income, yes higher priced products, but they will save and invest again, just by being individually frugal.
      2. Increase GST to 15% (or whatever is required to get the numbers to work)
      3. BAD tax to 2%. (the people want future financial markets taxed)
      4. Rename, consult a little, and tweak the super tax, for sociological reasons alone. Much easier to sell to the people who already understand (or don’t) royalties type terms?
      5 Keep the real taxies for the ‘minority rich’ as stamps duties, land tax and payroll.
      6. Make company tax a flat 15% as well to keep capitalism alive. After all, individuals who profit from increased company profits/dividends will have to spend within a 15% gst economy anyway. lol.

      People please note that consumers of the resources who will pay increased prices due to our super tax, are not Australians.

      The trick will be not to eat the goose, just get her eggs. I am sure this is kr’s approach. I should send him that. Lol.

      Gapminder.org and wolframalpha has us projected at 2 8million by 2050? What the, what the?

      In God we trust, all others must bring data.

    • Paul Collins says:

      09:26am | 18/06/10

      PS. After the $50k threshold, a flat 15% PAYG tax.

      Flat personal, compnay and GST at 15. (or whatever Treasury calculate to be correct, given the new RSPT, increases in other “minority rich’ taxes, no negative gearing and govt savings)

    • Paul Collins says:

      12:44am | 18/06/10

      If 4.9 million Australian boomers are going to be dead my 2050, then X. Y and Z’s and immigrants can fill those beds. We already have 1 million spare beds. Fact.

      4.9 million Australian boomers will all be retired by 2030 and they may all want to follow on with the great Australian dream and buy a 4WD and caravan, move to the coast and spend the inheritance. Fill their empty metro beds as they move into what was once ‘holiday’ units on the coast and live, without the yard and any differed management fees, until they die.

      Many will stay in their homes after the GPC (that is, the Great Property Crash) of 2012, to try and realise that dream of capital gains on property, without the fundamental economics to go with it. Sad really… Good for our kids, no unemployment, high wages, wiping bums and affording homes, kids, education and life. All good and a govt that paved their way with broad based taxation, super profit taxes and true social agendas.

      So, don’t worry about where we will fit them as there is no real problem at all as to ‘where’ we will fit them, just how many families to a single home/flat might be a bigger problems as cultures collide… LOL.

      Our immigration as a percentage of total population, has been declining.

      The world’s people will come to Oz, after the property bubble bursts and ‘wages to property’ adjusts to sustainable levels.  That is all that is stopping them now really, plus other competing sovereign incentives. Quite a competitive market to get/keep your skilled…as the boomers move through the worlds populations, including China.

      In God we trust, all others must bring data.

    • dmmaseoseoseo says:

      01:22pm | 13/12/11

      Is not marriage an open question, when it is alleged, from the beginning of the world, that such who are in the institution wish to get out and such as are out wish to get in.

 

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