So we’re feeling a bit nostalgic?

Joan says:

12:56pm | 25/01/13

Rudd the guy that outshines Gillard poll after poll and the only guy still in play .

Tony says:

02:00pm | 25/01/13

It means that 65% of Australians think that Labor Prime Minister were better than Liberal. It makes total sense. No wonder Liberals lasted only 12 out of 30 years in Federal Government. And Howard sold Bank,Airline and Post Office. One PM without a spine,some even say he is war criminal as well. Nothing to be nostalgic about.

Harvey says:

02:18pm | 25/01/13

Yep. The sitting PM who couldn’t even win his own seat. Good riddance.

Snake says:

02:48pm | 25/01/13

Come back John. The country needs you now more than ever.

It’s no surprise the only Liberal PM in my living memory tops the charts. Funny how the leftist camp couldn’t decide on which of their muppets would rule the roost.

IMO Howard, Hawke, Keating, Rudd, every other PM in history, Gillard.

You name it, and chances are it can sit ahead of Gillard in the competency game.

GregE says:

03:37pm | 25/01/13

“I’m a fiscal conservative” -  Ah, no actually, you are the biggest spending PM in the nations history Mr Rudd.

@Tony, really? I wonder what some would call AWU Gillard?

A Concerned Citizen says:

03:59pm | 25/01/13

Indeed, considering that Howard announced he was planning to retire anyway, I’d say that, along with introducing Workchoices, were the only profound reasons why he lost (between his local electorate and federally, respectively).

Everything else I hate about his policies (Iraq War, privatizations) were things I’d wager Labor would have done under Beasley had they have been in government instead.

Tom says:

05:35pm | 25/01/13

@ACC

Howard ran for the seat of Bennelong and lost. as a sitting PM.

As Peter Costello wrote, that’s all he’ll be remembered for in games of Trivial Pursuit.

Peter Ede says:

06:02pm | 25/01/13

Rudd Australia’s 2nd worst PM behind Gillard?

Peter says:

06:05pm | 25/01/13

Spout off all you want Tony. Facts are facts and the facts are the ALP are out of office twice as long as they are in typically. Labor are crap it just takes the majority 2 elections to remember that. Also let’s not forget Julia was not elected PM by the people. She was placed in the seat by three traitors to their own electorates.

John says:

06:47pm | 25/01/13

@peter

Yes the PM was, after 6,216,445 of us voted for the ALP.

Are you the last person in Australia who still doesn’t understand that if an election results in a hung Parliament then the Independents and minor parties have to decide who forms Government, including Bob Katter who sided with the losers.

maria says:

12:57pm | 25/01/13

We would be far better with a direct democracy a la Switzerland,  a real democracy where a nation is ruled by its people, rather than one person or political partie or the mob who gets into power using lies and then doesn’t listen to public opinion.
We wouldn’t have people who are willing to do anything - including lie, cheat the system and risk it all - in the quest power.

Sergeant Schultz says:

01:13pm | 25/01/13

Maria…every person in Australia has the right to vote…how democratic do you want the system ? Our system works ok….be thankful.
NOTE : Switzerland has compulsory conscription for every citizen…..not that i disagree with conscription….but it is a part of their ” democracy “
Maybe A La Switzerland would be unpalatable for you in reality.

GigaStar says:

01:39pm | 25/01/13

maria - give it up already. Instead of copy-pasting the same post all the time come up with some new material. You’re getting pretty boring.

Bear says:

01:54pm | 25/01/13

Something’s not a fact just because you shreik it. He probably was a better ‘statesmen’ whatever that means but be was still a pr$ck.

Jaqui says:

02:29pm | 25/01/13

@Bear: Aside from your obvious misogynist intent of your reply “because you shreik it” did you actually miss the article or are you just not up for accepting facts. Please refer to the galaxy poll to illustrate the FACT that this is not just my opinion.

Where is your beloved corrupt, liar Gillard again?

James of Hong Kong says:

02:48pm | 25/01/13

The prog plate is never finished.

nihonin says:

03:24pm | 25/01/13

Popular prick too by the looks of it Bear

1 Liberal PM @ 35%

4 Labor PM’s @ 65% of the vote = 16.25% each

A Concerned Citizen says:

03:54pm | 25/01/13

@Jaqui- I would actually agree; Howard up until the last year simply gave voters what we wanted, provided a fairly stable governance with a fair amount of policy introduced. The crippling stagnation at the moment along with the corruption (Carr, and deposing Rudd) makes our current government’s unpopularity obvious. To be fair, both Labor and Liberal are equally bad right now in their outright refusal to actually do their jobs.
@Maria- I absolutely agree with you, and quite frankly, anybody complaining about our current state should be considering what you wrote. Most of these issues would have been solved over a decade ago.

@Sergeant Schultz,
“how democratic do you want the system?” Being allowed to vote more than three times every decade would be nice. Certainly there are a few issues I’d like a say in myself, rather than watch the handwringing we are getting now.
Also, as far as conscription, as the Swiss can only go to war if a referendum majority endorses it, the ‘conscripts’ aren’t likely to be sent into a warzone, merely do some training excercises locally. Australia on the other hand goes to war without referendum and actually introduced conscription without a referendum to fight in Vietnam.

Lance says:

04:03pm | 25/01/13

As someone who bought into the Kevin 07 bandwagon, I wish I could have had my vote again.  We threw out a perfectly good government with fantastic economic discipline, and replaced it with one of the worst governments this country has ever seen.

Bear says:

04:33pm | 25/01/13

Where do you keep getting mysoginy from? I thought you hated Gillard for for playing that card!?

Bear says:

04:38pm | 25/01/13

PS. It’s not misogynist because you Are shrieking. I can feel my ears bleeding from here.

As if says:

05:41pm | 25/01/13

Sure you did, Lance.

Howard’s was the most wasteful in Australian history but Rudd’s steered us through the GFC better than any country in the world.

Sergeant Schultz says:

05:59pm | 25/01/13

A Concerned Citizen…” Being allowed to vote more than three times every decade…..”  Well now , that wish would put you out of kilter with most Australians who are unhappy at having a Federal election every three years , State at three or four ,and Local at three. Most of us have quite enough say in governance of this great country without resorting to putting ” manacles ” on our legislators.
The Swiss were hardly the most popular European country in their world war two decision to sit and watch the murder of millions of Jews by the Nazi regime . Rather comforting to have a Euro neighbour who would answer a call for help in times of need.
Australians are well aware that in voting in any federal government that they are placing their trust in that government to make the decision for them to take the country to war….that is our system.
Incidently , i rather liken the North Vietnamese incursions into the South to kill people in the name of Communism , to the holocaust . The Viet Cong were comparable to the Gestapo with their ” persuasion ” tactics.

dovif says:

10:53am | 25/01/13

I would much prefer us getting the money, then the current government spending $50 billion (?), housing refugees in detention centers, giving them a wage, medicare, a mobile phone etc

It is time the ALP start looking after the Middle class, rather then illegal immigrants

Greg says:

11:13am | 25/01/13

Translation required:

“Middle class welfare” = letting people keep a little bit extra of their own money, that they have earned themselves.

Whereas the ALP enjoy taking money from those that have earned it and giving it to those that haven’t. And the recipients just happen to be overwhelmingly ALP voters.

The ALP used to represent the workers, but now they just represent those who don’t work.

The last worthwhile ALP PM was Billy Hughes, and they haven’t had a decent one since.

GigaStar says:

11:14am | 25/01/13

Dan, this chestnut again. I’m not giving an opinion on Howard and his spending. I think he did over spend in his final years of government. I’m getting shitty that posters keep parrotting “something they heard somewhere” about the Report and most of time it not what’s actually in the Report.

To clarify the report. The IMF didn’t name the Howard Coalition or middle class handouts in the study - Australia is never mentioned in the text of the report only in the tables. The IMF never gave an opinion on the data for Australia - it was untrained journalists’ interpretation of the statistical analysis.

In Table 11 all but 4 of the 55 countries show structural breaks from the test data (the test data for post-war ends at 2007 so doesn’t include the Rudd/Gillard years). The IMF has not given an opinion on the reason for the structural breaks or whether the breaks are good or bad for any of the countries. One structural break occurs in the Howard years, however no analysis of the structural break has been done - so no conclusions for its existence can be drawn.

In Table 13 entitled “Strong times of prudence and profligacy” Australia is listed as having 1 instance of strong prudence in 1931-5 and no instances of strong profligacy.

When you have actually read the 53 page report and understand the methodology used and the calculations then comment. By the way, I have and I do.

Bear says:

11:21am | 25/01/13

$50b ‘giving’ stuff to refugees. Even for Lib lover that’s a stretch for a stat made up on the run.

Esteban says:

11:23am | 25/01/13

That is why he is popular Dan. Paid off $96 billion of debt left behind by ALp and left $20 billion in credit for kevin 07 at the same time as reducing tax rates.

Even then he was able to reduce the burden on middleclass taxpayers who had assisted with those achievements.

Just because the left has decided to re badge that assistance that we could afford as “middleclass welfare”  does not lessen the achievment.

Last week cheques went out to parents of school children to help with expenses. Even though many of the people getting those cheques were middle class we would never call it middle class welfare. It is assistance with education costs right?

Then there is the little matter that the ALP has had to borrow money and start paying interest on it to make these payments.

The coalition paid for their assistance payments without borrowing money.

The current interest bill on Swann’s debt must be something like $6 billion dollars a year. Add to that the gross wastage caused by unwinding the pacific solution and the ALP could afford to dole out huge amounts of middleclass welfare without borrowing money.

I mean how much was the baby bonus costing compared to the massive interest bill we have to pay for . Chicken feed mate. The ALP don’t even pay their interest bill they just borrow more money.

Al says:

11:29am | 25/01/13

I support removal of middle class welfare completely, with a corosponding decrease in the taxation rate for the middle and low tax brackets (after all, there was already that increase to the tax free threshold) and a smaller decrease in the higher income tax bracket.

Greg in Chengdu says:

11:45am | 25/01/13

And yet he still managed to create a $22 billion surplus. Hows Gillards surplus coming along? Thats right $70 billion in debt and cimbing

JoniM says:

12:20pm | 25/01/13

Seriously Dan !
How can you credibly quote an organisation like the IMF to support your argument ! They did even see the GFC coming !

Dan says:

12:30pm | 25/01/13

@Esteban - I would call the childcare payments middle class welfare too…and I got them.

To those saying the middle class should be allowed to keep some of their tax because they pay it, if we applied that everywhere we would have no government at all. Everyone thinks they pay too much tax, even people who pay no income tax complain about GST. What makes the middle class so special?

@GigaStar - happy to accept that the Australian media misrepresented the report. I am not sure why me repeating it annoys you though - I do not have time to read primary materials behind every article. As far as I know Gadaffi could still be running Libya.

Tubesteak says:

12:42pm | 25/01/13

Greg
““Middle class welfare” = letting people keep a little bit extra of their own money, that they have earned themselves”

Really? Then where is my money?
I seem to keep giving it to the government and then they give it to bludgers and breeders while public transport and roads turn to crap.

I’d prefer it if the government kept it and developed a decent transport network. Either that or actually let me keep it.

Shane From Melbourne says:

12:43pm | 25/01/13

@dovif and Greg- Middle class FAMILY welfare, there fixed it for you. Essentially a wealth transfer from singles and childless couples to middle class families. Thought conservatives hated such things as socialism, social engineering through schemes like maternity leave and expansion of the welfare state but I guess not, because the Coalition are sodding hypocrites upon the matter of welfare.
Howard was absolute WORST PM in history. Here is a list of his so called accomplishments:
Turning Australia into a nation of handout junkies as I’ve already mentioned.
Induced a population boom with the baby bonus and high immigration, requiring the states to pick up the tab (or not) in related infrastructure such as maternity ward places, child care places, school places, overcrowding in roads, public transport etc.
Introduced the First Home Buyers grant which along with the population boom from high immigration grossly inflated housing prices to the highest in the world.
Participated in two useless billion dollar wars that had the net effect of creating vacuums in Iraq and Afghanistan for powers like Iran and Pakistan to expand into.
We won’t even mention silly little things like selling off most of Australia’s gold reserves just before gold rocketed to an all time high or the billion dollar gift to pensioners in changes to the superannuation laws where pensioners can run down their superannuation savings in order to qualify for the pension.
Howard was a crap PM, so was Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard.

james says:

12:44pm | 25/01/13

“JoniM says:12:20pm | 25/01/13

Seriously Dan !
How can you credibly quote an organisation like the IMF to support your argument ! They did even see the GFC coming ! “

Not many did, but if you keep repeating this enough times maybe someone will beleive you.

GigaStar says:

12:48pm | 25/01/13

Dan “happy to accept that the Australian media misrepresented the report. I am not sure why me repeating it annoys you though - I do not have time to read primary materials behind every article. As far as I know Gadaffi could still be running Libya.”

The problem is in being lazy, not finding out the facts and repeating something that has been misrepresented like its the truth.

GigaStar says:

12:53pm | 25/01/13

Dan “happy to accept that the Australian media misrepresented the report. I am not sure why me repeating it annoys you though - I do not have time to read primary materials behind every article. As far as I know Gadaffi could still be running Libya.”

Signed Mr Sheeple

GregE says:

01:20pm | 25/01/13

It amazes me that ALP supporters scream middle class welfare. Reality was that the Howard LNP gave money back to the people who were paying taxes. And at the same time still delivered surplus budgets and paid off the ALPs debt.

Compare that to this lot, who hand money out to welfare cheats and people not paying tax. Socialist wealth redistribution soviet Russia style. An ALP who wasted billions on pink batts schemes, green loans, fuelwatch, ALP voters dental care, propaganda climate mailouts, $900 hand outs to dead people and establishing propaganda units. And all the while racking up record budget defecits and over $200b in federal debt.

@Shane from Melbourne - you are wrong!!! Did you not get the 5 consecutive tax cuts? Would you prefer to still be paying a top marginal rate from $60,000 a year? Everyone who paid tax got money returned to them in cuts under the LNP government. And it didn’t matter who you were, where you lived, your marriage status, your family status or if you voted LNP or ALP.

If that was so crap, feel free to hand it back pal.

Nick says:

01:40pm | 25/01/13

I would much prefer us getting the money   HOW?

It will only happen under a direct democracy a la Switzerland as Maria as mentioned previously not under a fashist state in which the people are irrelevant after each election.

Is it hard to understand that you -me and him are unrelated in every decisions .....
“there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead”
It is our money ..... is it?

kfr says:

01:46pm | 25/01/13

Well said Gigastar as i also read the report that referenced the abilty of the 117 nations referred to as being able to pay off their future debts. It was not a review of the spending by governments of any kind. Regrettably, some just mouth the labor/journo labor sympathiser line on this as its sooo simple. Informed debate is one thing, ill-informed another.

Achmed says:

01:48pm | 25/01/13

how about we go with this quote from the OECD Report
“Australia’s long period of uninterrupted economic growth makes it the Iron Man among the OECD countries,” said OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurría said. “
Note Iron Man among OECD countries….

Esteban says:

01:55pm | 25/01/13

Dan. We could debate the pros and cons of childcare subsidisation all day but even the ALP won’t go down that path.

The ALP, rather than addressing problems, are spending too much energy trying to shift the blame onto the previous Governmet.

The ALP constructed term “middle class welfare” is central to that strategy.

Our financial position as a nation has deteriorated under this Government. The term middle class welfare is to try and establish an altered history that our economic problems are the fault of Howard.

Does anyone doubt that the recent announcement by education minister Garrett that he would introduce the subject of economics to primary school kids will not also play a role in this history revisionism?

If the ALP are in power he text books will say that middle class welfare killed Australia however Swann’s miracle breathed life back into the corpse.
. That must be their motivation because if they actually taught economics then it would wipe out the ALP because economic literacy is their Achilles.

The primary vote of the ALP would collapse if the nation had a good understanding of economics.

Bear says:

02:03pm | 25/01/13

@grege . You seem all too eager to believe Liberal slanted spin. I got a sandwich and milkshake tax cut like the majority. The rest were swallowed up. The only ppl to get a decent cut were on 200k plus. I’m guess g you’re one of them. As always that’s who the scum represent and nobody else. They just need to get enough of the rest to buy the trickle down bs.

Achmed says:

02:19pm | 25/01/13

Giga star then explain the number of statements like this one that Howard has made

THE former prime minister, John Howard, has rejected the charge that his government spent wastefully, saying ‘‘the reason Australia dodged the global downturn was due to the strong fiscal position of the Howard government’‘.
Mr Howard was responding to an International Monetary Fund study that found Australia’s most needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments.

Shane From Melbourne says:

02:20pm | 25/01/13

@GregE- Have no beef with tax cuts. They cover bracket creep (a fundamental failure of tax reform) and they apply to all taxpayers. Have a definite problem with the middle class handouts and lower class welfare junkies. That is just wealth redistribution and part of the socialism that you denounce. Welfare should be short term unemployed, genuinely disabled and pensioners and that is it. Either fix the bracket creep, give it back in tax cuts, or spend it upon infrastructure. None of this social engineering that the ALP and Coalition so favor.

GregE says:

03:28pm | 25/01/13

@Bear - I see, so the people who got a decent tax cut were those who were paying the most tax!

Sounds fair to me.

Ever heard of the progressive tax system? It’s why currently the top 30% of taxpayers contribute 70% of the tax revenue in this country. Yet you clearly have an issue with these people. The very people who are subsidising your health care, paid for your $900 handout, are paying your carbon compensation and paid the flood levy. What dreadful people they are right.

Scott says:

03:58pm | 25/01/13

And just look how society flourished from it Dan! Everyone, yep everyone had money, the economy boomed. Real Estate went through the roof, everyone had nice new shiney things and now everyone is scared to death and if it wasnt for the mining sector we would all be doomed or maybe even going through the Recession We Had to Have….. again!

Markus Fox says:

04:17pm | 25/01/13

Achmed, that’s a load of rubbish. Have you bothered to read the IMF report or are you just relying on some bias-fuelled newspaper (the ABC or the Age?). The figures represented in the IMF report were actually a representation of state and federal expenditure combined. Do the research before spouting misinformation. Most of that expenditure came from the wall to wall state Labor government deficits. Oh by the way, how do you explain the IMF’s handling of Tony Blair’s budgets (2002-05)? It claimed his budgets to be prudent when in fact the British budget blew out of control? and Silvio Berlusconi???? come on, get with the realities. Under Howard, we had a fiscally responsible government that wiped our debt. Only to have this lot destroy all the good work that he did. What planet are you living on?

Achmed says:

04:31pm | 25/01/13

@Marcus Fox….no it was The Australian.
but this is direct from the OECD Report 2012
“Australia’s long period of uninterrupted economic growth makes it the Iron Man among the OECD countries,” said OECD Secretary-General Angel Gurría said. “

Canberra Press Posse says:

04:36pm | 25/01/13

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/01/the-imf-and-its-report-on-john-howard-and-peter-costellos-profligacy.html

DoubleWammy says:

04:36pm | 25/01/13

Marcus Fox if there was no comment in any IMF Report why was Howard making statements to the press about it?

Stained says:

05:36pm | 25/01/13

@Greg ““Middle class welfare” = letting people keep a little bit extra of their own money, that they have earned themselves”

Yes agree, but welfare, not happy with that one.  I’d rather my taxes went down instead of filling out forms.

simonfromlakemba says:

11:42am | 25/01/13

Keating/Hawke who’s reforms he rode high on.

I think the main he reason he got voted #1 is because he is the most recent and because the Gillard Government have been a basket case.

jgm says:

11:46am | 25/01/13

Hawke/ Keating/ Howard. After which we’ve had Rudd/ Gillard and probably Abbott.

You can see where it all went wrong.

Benzo says:

11:47am | 25/01/13

I would say that Paul Keating did the best by Australia.
he brought in so many reforms to make Australia what it is today.

Howard just sold up our assets to get surplus,  started costly and technically illegal wars, removed rights from workers, left us in a structual defficet ect ect ect

You right Gillards not much of a leader, but id still rate her slightly above Howard.

Al says:

12:18pm | 25/01/13

Benzo - do you have any memory of what interest rates were in the Hawke/Keating years?
And people complain about property prices today, just imagine the current prices with THOSE interest rates.

Hamish says:

12:18pm | 25/01/13

simon and Benzo, I think the Hawke/Keating government (when Keating was Treasurer) was probably the most important administration from a reform point of view, but Keating completely lost the plot after ascending to the PMship. The modern ALP is a pale imitation.

james says:

12:50pm | 25/01/13

@Al

While we are at it, how were the interest rates, unemployment rate, inflation levels when Howard was treasurer?

Please play.

GigaStar says:

12:51pm | 25/01/13

simonfromlakemba says:11:42am | 25/01/13 “Keating/Hawke who’s reforms he rode high on.:

Actually most of Hawke’s reforms come from papers commissioned by Fraser. Who’s riding on who’s tails.

james says:

01:35pm | 25/01/13

GigaStar says:12:51pm | 25/01/13

simonfromlakemba says:11:42am | 25/01/13 “Keating/Hawke who’s reforms he rode high on.:

Actually most of Hawke’s reforms come from papers commissioned by Fraser. Who’s riding on who’s tails.

They only had 2 years to do nothing about though.

simonfromlakemba says:

02:18pm | 25/01/13

But Fraser is some pinko lefty anyway. So Labor will take credit for that.

GigaStar says:

02:27pm | 25/01/13

simonfromlakemba says:02:18pm | 25/01/13 “But Fraser is some pinko lefty anyway. So Labor will take credit for that.”

You get today’s award for biggest spin. Do you work in politics?

Tubesteak says:

02:39pm | 25/01/13

I was going to say the exact same thing as Hamish at 12:18pm

GigaStar
Commissioning a paper doesn’t mean you’re doing something about it. Otherwise, Rudd would be the greatest tax reformer based on the Henry Report. How many tax reforms have Labor brought in based on the Henry Report?..........[crickets chirping]

GigaStar says:

04:05pm | 25/01/13

Tubesteak says:02:39pm | 25/01/13 “Commissioning a paper doesn’t mean you’re doing something about it.”

Quite right Tubesteak but if you read my post properly you’ll get what I’m talking about - riding coat-tails - the ALP didn’t think up alot of the reforms during Hawke’s era - the groundwork was done for them.

Carz says:

05:01pm | 25/01/13

Al, do you remember that interest rates peaked and were coming down again under Hawke/Keating?

A Concerned Citizen says:

04:35pm | 25/01/13

This poll makes a lot of sense really and I actually agree with them.

Howard’s popularity is unsurprising. In major policy areas he gave voters what we wanted (asylum policy), gave us a stable 12 years with a reasonable amount of active governance, and never inflicted any damnable policies that he could be exclusively faulted with (even Iraq and Privatizations seemed to have a lot of support at the time)- and was kicked out before he could inflict Workchoices. I hardly admire him, but compared to the others he deserves the higher popularity.

Rudd made some hugely unpopular moves (retracting Howard’s asylum policy, advocating Big Australia), but generally acted with a fair amount of competence and integrity until he was knifed (of course, possibly preventing him inflicting a very bad policy in the future).

Hawke simply never did anything particularly bad to Australia that we can remember, so he makes a natural third choice.

Keating was corrupt to the eyeballs and gave us some of the most damning bad policy in recent memory. The recession-we-had-to-have being the only thing he will be remembered for. Let’s not forget about him overturning the deportation of an extremist hate-preacher because he wanted the extremists’ votes.

Gillard is a plain crooked dud who did almost nothing except stab Rudd in the back and steal his job, bring political stagnation, appoint (without an election) her corrupt ally Bob Carr to a major position, make dubious slanders against Julian Assange/Wikileaks (which unlike jihadi Hicks, many Australians actually support) and oversaw some massive blunders and policy failures, and show herself clearly incapable of thinking of a solution and instead, let it get worse.

I’d wonder how Menzies and Frazer would perform; as in my opinion, they were even worse.

Hamish says:

10:54am | 25/01/13

God, what utter tripe. Are you David Maher? You use the same empty platitudes and hyperbole. He didn’t ‘mis-use’ our defence forces. What do you think they’re there for? And at least he funded them unlike Jules who sees defence spending as completely optional. He actually went to the electorate with a climate change plan at the 2007 election and a republic seems no closer under the ALP. Why are people so desperate to justify their irrational hatred? If you don’t like him fine, but just don’t pretend it’s based on anything other than personal prejudice.

Brian B says:

11:00am | 25/01/13

Shot yourself in the arse Wakey - All you have done is attempted to discredit Howard on the grounds of your personal political views.

They don’t alter the fact that his electoral success was built on popularity.

Gregg says:

11:07am | 25/01/13

Maybe you’ve missed the recent report on the Greenland Ice shelf core from 3000 metres that indicates temperatures back 130,000 years ago were eight degrees higher than now.
That in itself says something about the need to be always questioning scientific developments and even scientists favouring climate change will say you should never stop questioning and learning.

As for the republic, we’ve wasted far too much money already on discussing the needs for being one and do not need to waste even more by becoming one.

Hamish says:

11:14am | 25/01/13

Wakey, Wakey, you’re empty platitudes and emotive sloganeering mean more than real arguments ever could. Well, arguments that aren’t inaccurate anyway…

Greg in Chengdu says:

11:50am | 25/01/13

“His electoral success was built on fear, bigotry and a selfish economic reform agenda” As opposed to Julia who completely throws out democratic process to choose her own MPs at the expense of legally elected ones.

JoniM says:

12:14pm | 25/01/13

Perhaps the fact that “working families never had it so good” during the Howard years might have something to do with the poll result ?
Perhaps the majority of people realise after most recent government experiences that a good reliable government with good economic management of its budget, keeping our borders safe and improving our standards of living is far preferrable to the current focus on a myriad of minor / minority issues with things like indigenous apologies, gay marriage, new flags, misogyny, motherhood statements, plain packaging, political correctness, union corruption, marine parks, factional politics, etc, all whilst the public debt is at record levels and growing, borders are being breached daily, manufacturing jobs are disappearing and costs of living keep soaring !
I can’t believe Howard only had 35% support ?

N. Silver says:

03:20pm | 25/01/13

@joni

That’s because you have Karl Rove Syndrome, Joni. If the Libs can’t even get 100% from a Galaxy poll, then they have problems.

Joan says:

01:00pm | 25/01/13

Even the Tasmanians running away from Labor//Greens having flirted with them to the detriment of the state

As if says:

02:28pm | 25/01/13

Sure you did, Don.

tez says:

04:55pm | 25/01/13

Fibber

Mack says:

05:19pm | 25/01/13

Exactly, Joan -

REACHTEL POLLING BASS (TAS)

Apparently this is the sort of news the ALP is getting in their private polling seat by seat across Australia.

http://www.reachtel.com.au/blog/big-turnaround-for-liberals-in-tasmanian-seat-of-bass

Read it and weep, Lefties….

Freeman says:

11:30am | 25/01/13

This occurred to me also. Of the 5 PMs, only one was a Lib. Like, who else are LNP rusties gunna pick but Howard?

What was very telling was that as many ALP voters voted Howard as did Gillard. She is toxic.

Esteban says:

11:41am | 25/01/13

You are probably onto something with that observation.

Certainly if you picked on strict party lines then the ALP vote is split.

I think there must be an element of that in the votes.However I think with the passage of time I think people take a less pragmatic view.

For instance i am a liberal supporter but i would have been sorely tempted to pick Keating as the best PM.

By the way I think if fraser had been included in the choices then I don’t think Howard’s vote would have been reduced because I doubt anyone would pick Fraser.

Of course the other problem is that some of those polled were either not born or politically ignorant children during say the Hawke and Keating prime mininisterships and would be less likely to vote for them.

Given that and the split of the ALP vote I think the hawke result is pretty good but I reckon he was nothing without keating.

jgm says:

11:53am | 25/01/13

Howard still canes Rudd/ Gillard who come in at a paltry 21% compared to Howard’s 35%

In fact, throw Keating there and Howard still canes the lot of them 35% to 30%

I would say that that is telling.

Gillard’s approval is also telling.

james says:

12:19pm | 25/01/13

AWB comes to mind.

What about bailing out his brother for a cool couple of hundred of million.

Really competent, not, just another politician.

Steve says:

01:54pm | 25/01/13

AWB ??, thats it? Compared to contrived Race Hate Riots, AWU corruption, billions and billions of debt and waste, non - revenue raising taxes… this Labor government stuffs up on a weekly basis.
And all you can come up with is the Australian Wheat Board sells as much wheat as it can against all the subsidised monopolies. Well done scoop.

james says:

02:03pm | 25/01/13

And all you can come up with is the Australian Wheat Board sells as much wheat as it can against all the subsidised monopolies.

Read the rest of the post maestro.

Haha says:

02:26pm | 25/01/13

Let me fix that typo for you, Dovif.

*least

Yuri says:

02:32pm | 25/01/13

Well the fact that he is the most popular PM, even with the issues that you mention, would suggest that he is at least a competent politician. Which is more than can be said for our current PM.

Chris L says:

02:49pm | 25/01/13

Race Hate Riots? Is that all you’ve got? How does it even get called a riot when no people were injured and no property was damaged? I don’t even recall seeing any pictures of the “rioters”, just of Gillard and Abbott being escorted. They could have been fleeing from a toy poodle for all the coverage showed us.

Steve says:

02:51pm | 25/01/13

James, stick to supporting race hate riots and stealing workers union funds mate.
Its no wonder your ilk are overwhelmingly unpopular.

Achmed says:

03:11pm | 25/01/13

there is also the weapons of mass destruction lie, the children over board lie…..failure the remove the fuel tax when he introduced the GST so we pay a tax on a tax

Amused Qld says:

03:05pm | 25/01/13

More like broken green glass bottles with this incompetent labor govt

Hamish says:

10:58am | 25/01/13

Not really true dancan. In fact a survey like this is more likely to be accurate (given that percentages are nowhere near 50/50) than opinion polls. The exact percentages are pretty dubious but the relativities should be pretty sound (i.e. Howard being the most popular by a significant margin).

Lie lover says:

11:04am | 25/01/13

No it works like this, when the polls look good for the Liberals they’re right, the rest of the time they’re wrong.

Freeman says:

11:48am | 25/01/13

You can’t deny how accurate such polls have become in recent years when conpared to election results.

Benzo says:

11:58am | 25/01/13

The poll is rubbish anyhow,  all lib voters will vote for Howard as his the only lib to make the poll, where as there are 4 labor choices.
For example if it was bob hawke in the poll against 4 lib prim ministers bob hawke would have got it.

but who cares anyhow

T says:

12:39pm | 25/01/13

There are 3 kinds of lies… lies, damn lies and statistics.

http://public.wsu.edu/~taflinge/evistats.html

It’s not to say Howard wasn’t the most popular leader in recent times. But you can’t use statistics as a firm result or a reason never to doubt the answer again, ever… That link I gave makes that very clear.

kath says:

01:05pm | 25/01/13

Vernon, when you look up Wikipedia, you should also see that he was PM 40 years ago and the poll only dealt with Prime Ministers from the last 25 years.  Therefore you start with Hawke as the first one on the list.

Honestly the best Australian PM for me is either Curtin or Chifley.  The only thing that stops it being Chifley without question is that he sent Australian troops down the mines during a miner’s strike.

Nilbog says:

12:11pm | 25/01/13

From the person who clearly hasn’t read the IMF report, only articles about it…

Sort of like when I need legal advice, I go to my accountant for it, because he sometimes assists lawyers with clients, right??

Read the report and educate yourself for once. Don’t be lazy and rely on, of all people, journalists to teach you things.

GigaStar says:

04:07pm | 25/01/13

gof - stop being a sheeple and read the Report for yourself - especially the front where is says “This Working Paper should not be reported as representing the views of the IMF. The views expressed in this Working Paper are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent those of the IMF or IMF policy. Working Papers describe research in progress by the
author(s) and are published to elicit comments and to further debate.”

jgm says:

01:02pm | 25/01/13

Yep, and petrol, food, electricity, etc are all sooo much cheaper now…

Oh wait…

Al says:

01:43pm | 25/01/13

I will put this fairly clearly, if John Howard came back I would most likely vote for him (dependent on actual policies of course).
kml -
Petrol - don’t care, never have, but most of the rise was due to war.
Food - Sorry, I haven’t seen any drop in food prices, of even a lower increase since Labour got in.
Pensions - Just replace that with Newstart.
WorkChoices - That was a mistake and went to far, but all the previous changes he introduced to IR (many of which were thrown out by the Fair Work Act) were quite good for the individuals, not so good for the unions though. BTW, now instead of Unions complaing about IR (Work Choices) it is the buisnesses (large and small) and even workers who can’t negotiate what they want.

Esteban says:

11:48am | 25/01/13

I miss the stimulas payments.

My kids and grandchildren will have to work and pay for it.

By the way what “free money” were you getting every few months that is not available now?

james says:

12:47pm | 25/01/13

Esteban wanted a recession instead.

Pedro Ant says:

11:55am | 25/01/13

Baton. You hand over the baton. You batten down the hatches.

Al says:

01:01pm | 25/01/13

Pedro Ant - maybe TerryG meant that Howard took the batton and whacked Costello over the head with it to encourage him to ‘batten down’ for the storm ahead?

GregE says:

02:10pm | 25/01/13

A bit like this lady does?:

http://michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/.a/6a0177444b0c2e970d017c3423dee3970b-pi

GregE says:

02:40pm | 25/01/13

And some Australians too.

What was Julia Gillard doing in the Socialist Forum for all those years up to 2002?

TimB says:

12:28pm | 25/01/13

Haters gunna hate

Keep in mind that Howard beat Keating, Gillard and Hawke *combined*.

Steven says:

02:38pm | 25/01/13

Well vox it was a Galaxy poll. After the opening “According to a new Galaxy poll” you don’t need to read any more.

jgm says:

11:56am | 25/01/13

This.

Love or hate him, Howard ran an effective government.

Look at the dog’s breakfast we’ve got at the moment.

Zack says:

04:37pm | 25/01/13

If Gillard was doing a good job she would have topped the poll and destroyed Mr Abbott. She hasn’t done either and she never will.

Esteban says:

12:36pm | 25/01/13

That’s not a structural deficit.

look at the billions of dollars in interest on Govt debt and increased costs associated with unwinding the Pacific solution. Now that is a structural deficit.

james says:

02:12pm | 25/01/13

“That’s not a structural deficit.”

What part of increasing middle class welfare and baby bonus payments is not?

Ben says:

12:42pm | 25/01/13

Yes. He also was after October 2007.

Freeman says:

12:43pm | 25/01/13

Come out of your Time Machine, Acotrel. 25 years includes the years 1987 through 2013.

GregE says:

12:50pm | 25/01/13

Yes he is our second longest serving PM. And was PM before your lot bullshitted it’s way into power with promises of education revolutions, laptops for every child, coastguards, cheaper fuel, cheaper childcare, East Timor solutions and pink batts.

Nick says:

01:45pm | 25/01/13

Is there a difference?
shit keep happening
What are you going to do to stop it?

Bear says:

01:31pm | 25/01/13

It was middle class welfare/bribes and still is. He wasn’t ‘giving it back’! What about single people or pensioners? Somehow only families got ‘it’ back.

GregE says:

02:05pm | 25/01/13

@Bear - Ah no you are wrong. The Howard LNP gave 5 years of consecutive PAYG tax cuts to every Australian paying tax! Didn’t matter what your marriage or family status was. Didn’t matter if you voted ALP or LNP. You got money back and you got it after they had paid off the ALPs debt and balanced the nations finances.

Are you going to give those tax cuts back? Would you prefer to be paying tax at the Keating brackets?

Do you prefer the current scenario where we have a government who is throwing money around like it’s going out of style. $900 handiouts to dead people, compensation for carbon tax making some people (the ALP demographic) better off whist generating the largest defecits in our history and $200b in debt. A government that has no plan to pay its debt off? Just three massive policies thaat will either result in more tax or bigger defecits (NDIS, Gonski, Dental bribe). Is that what you prefer? unless you are on the ALP gravy train, I doubt it.

Bear says:

04:35pm | 25/01/13

Yea big deal, he gave me $5. He prob gave you and the other 1% $200.

John says:

03:24pm | 25/01/13

“Seems” being the operative word. The problem is you.

True Blue says:

03:37pm | 25/01/13

Absolutely, and it maybe a long time before we see the likes of another true statesman. Had he stepped down before being defeated in the election 2007 he may have rated even higher. Not surprising of the result, but it was always a case of time before history looked back on Howard’s era with a nod of approval. It has only taken five years instead of twenty, largely due to the current array of political figures.

John says:

05:49pm | 25/01/13

@trueblue

Nobody thoight anyone could possibly be worse than Howard, but Abbott is.

GregE says:

01:40pm | 25/01/13

Yes he did.

He paid back $96billion worth of ALP debt rather than piss it away. That was a responsible and difficult decision that should be commended. If we had 11 years of Rudd/Gillard instead, do you think we’d have had zero federal debt and money in the bank? No freakin way!

He also implemented the financial Services Reform Act. The powers and requirements under that Act protected the balance sheets of our Insurance Companies and banks prior to the GFC. Yet few recognise the significance of this when Swan tells us he saved us .

The floating of the Australian dollar was done in response to the findings of the Campbell report, a report commissioned by…..John Howard as federal treasurer! Tarriffs - see above.

Howard introduced the gun buy back scheme - a brave decision to take on the gun lobby.

He also set up the Pacific solution which Gillard dismantled. Made the decision to support the independence of East Timor to world praise and against the threat of the largest Muslim country in the world.

He responded to the September 11 attacks and committed to the war in Afghanistan.

The Howard government produced surplus budgets and paid off the nations debt. That was taking the hard decision to be fiscally responsible. There are just as many brave decisions to to be made do the right thing in good times.

Keating should be commended for compulsory superannuation! Absolutely fantastic. Of course the current ALP government has done much to destroy superannuation in this country.

And your comments on the dollar are laughable. When it was floated and it fell dramatically, people complained for the exact opposite reason to the one you now provide. What’s hard about the decision to implement the findings of the Campbell report? Nothing!

Quite frankly, underplaying the performance of what was a very responsible government just because the sky wasn’t falling in is just complete nonsense. Truth is you dn’t like him and hate is blind.

not deceived by labor's tricks says:

01:48pm | 25/01/13

Shane. Surely you are joking? Howard governed during boom times did he? Ever heard of the Asian economic crisis of 1997-98. We were insulated from it as Howard has set up a competent banking system and a competent govt. You are naive if you think a govt can be in power for 12 years and it is all “boom times”.
The reforms you refer to were all commissioned by Howard under the Campbell report anyway. Gillard and Rudd had a mining “boom” which they have quickly turned into a reversal. Ever wonder why? Doesn’t money grow on trees says Gillard.

Lita says:

01:55pm | 25/01/13

Really Shane, John Howard’s government faced the asian recession while still paying for Labor’s debt.  Labor with all the money left by John Howard and no debt faced a USA/Europe recession with largesse stimulus continously from 2008 to 2010.  Where is Australia now in the financial side of things, a Labor government with five years of continous budget deficits because of wasteful spending and a debt closing on $300billion.  How can you compare John Howard handling of Australia’s finances with the poor performance of Rudd, Gillard and Swan.  You say John Howard just throw money at voters, so how do you rate Gillard and Swan throwing money from mining tax revenue when there are no revenue up to the 2nd quarter ending December2012.  So where do you think the Gillard’s money is coming from??????  Shame on you!

Peter says:

02:07pm | 25/01/13

Shane is correct judging by the liberal hacks attempts at rebuttal.

TimB says:

03:10pm | 25/01/13

Peter says:02:07pm | 25/01/13

Shane is correct judging by the liberal hacks attempts at rebuttal.

Got to love the reasoning on display here.

‘You’re arguing with him! Therefore he must be right!’

Err what? Such a failure of logic can only be the work of one person…

PS. If this was a crack at the quality of their arguments, actually pointing out *why* you think they’re wrong would be a much better strategy if you want to be taken even half seriously.

GregE says:

03:32pm | 25/01/13

An ALP hack calling people hacks - too funny.

What was it the pot called the kettle again?

Nick says:

01:47pm | 25/01/13

Yes Yes Yes

Hamish says:

01:54pm | 25/01/13

He obviously wasn’t despised by enough people not to stay in power for 11 years. I always find it hilarious that dyed-in-the-wool ALPers squeal so much about the ‘hatred’ directed at Gillard when it pales into absolute insignificance compared to what Howard had to put up with, or Kennett in Victoria for that matter.

simonfromlakemba says:

02:27pm | 25/01/13

The hatred is the same for both, with Gillard it has crept into parliament though which is a shame where with Howard it was confined to the papers, radio etc.

How are you any different to a dyed in the wool ALPer? same sh*t different smell really.

Al says:

02:39pm | 25/01/13

Bear - I happen to be one of the people who when Rudd was in was thinking “Hey, he made all these promises (or so it appeared) but where is the delivery….?”
He was a great PR man, all talk and as little action as possible I will give him that.
Not what I would call a great PM though.
Gillard is just worse than them both.
BTW: There is this old saying (not sure who said it) but if a PM (or leader) is hugely popular then they aren’t doing their job properly, they need to have everyone at least a little peeved at them or they are just pandering to vote buy and it will all fall apart.
Popular also does not equal best.

Hamish says:

03:42pm | 25/01/13

simon, we both know my sh*t don’t stink…

JoniM says:

02:54pm | 25/01/13

And he won the Americas Cup and Blanche d’Alpuget !

not deceived by labor's tricks says:

02:51pm | 25/01/13

you guys just bleat and repeat what people such as Andrew Maher tell you to say. Have you ever wondered how Howard was a “throwback to the 60s?’ do you mean by having a competent govt that looked after the middle class? ok, then he was a “throwback”, but all these maher cliches are a bit pointless. They don’t say anything worthwhile. Howard came from a lower middle class background in Earlwood. The Liberals have always represented the middle class better than the deceptive labor party.

Mayday says:

04:13pm | 25/01/13

St Trinians?

PeterMax says:

04:00pm | 25/01/13

As the Galaxy Poll shows not many people believe the above.

not deceived by labor's tricks says:

04:42pm | 25/01/13

So it was John Howard’s fault that the Bali bombing happened and that we gained no useful intelligence prior about it? Jeepers. That is a long bow you are streching there. Are you desperate to find something to criticse Howard on and this is the best you can do?

The exact reason why you have strong alliances with powerful countries is so that you can share information on things like this, but you expect Australia to act in a vacuum outside the sphere of the USA and to bypass the USA military intelligence?

I don’t think you have a full understanding of international relations. It isn’t as simple as you would like it to be. Australia is not a major world power-unless you didn’t know? Countries form alliances with major powers. It has been going on from the year AD 15 and before.

the phantom says:

04:44pm | 25/01/13

Max@ As the Galaxy Poll shows not many people believe the above.

That just shows how ignornant, stupid and ideologically blinded they are.

mikem says:

06:57pm | 25/01/13

To that list Phantom you need to add:
- Allowing foreign ownership to explode.  Mining is now 70% foreign owned as are many of our iconic trade names.
- Being almost our highest taxing government either with his government’s take of GDP being 10% higher than the current government’s.
- Being a sycophant to Bush and Blair.

Rowie says:

04:47pm | 25/01/13

Still better than any of the others especially the latest one!

tez says:

05:04pm | 25/01/13

The GST that was going to fix up the states pitty only 1/2 of us pay it

JB says:

06:33pm | 25/01/13

Exactly! There is nothing to read into these polls. Isn’t the other one, Newspoll, owned by News Ltd? So much for unbiased research. All they are doing is surveying their brainwashed, biased audience. Unfortunately for Howard, not even News Ltd propaganda could save him.

Ben says:

06:38pm | 25/01/13

>>Meanwhile, the sane members of Australia remember Howard as a racist fearmonger…

Yep, if you’re unable to argue coherently and with logic, simply employ the logical fallacy.

George says:

06:56pm | 25/01/13

Howard was the only option listed for Lib voters in the so called “poll”. A joke.