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Smarties and sparkies: How to fix our power price crisis

Bob Taylor, EE-Oz

by Bob Taylor, EE-Oz

22 Aug 05:40am

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Filed under: Cost Of Living, Electricity, Innovation, Power Prices, Smart Grid

82 comments

Mark Taylor has a lot to answer for.

My REAL passion is air conditioners

For years the former Test captain has been interrupting matches to implore Australians to run out and buy air conditioners. It’s working.

Air conditioner penetration in Australia has exploded rapidly in recent years from 30 per cent in 2001, to 70 per cent in 2011. That’s a massive jump.

It’s also a massive part of why the Prime Minister now has a problem with the states, who, in turn, have a problem with their energy policies.

Essentially, the PM is absolutely correct when she points out that our energy infrastructure is excess to requirements 99 per cent of the time.

It’s also true that expensive energy infrastructure is being constructed all around the country at a time when our total demand for electricity is actually stagnant – or even falling.

And yet it would be wrong to suggest that the construction of this infrastructure is all ‘gold-plating.’

The mitigating factor is peak demand. Peak demand refers to the heights our energy demand can hit. It only occurs on approximately one per cent of days, but it can result in a 50-100 per cent surge in demand.

The explosion in AC means that while total demand for energy in Australia has been relatively steady of late, peak demand has skyrocketed.

That’s where the drive for new infrastructure is largely coming from.

In fact, a recent review of the Queensland grid showed that for each $1,500 air conditioning system, a further $7,000 must be invested in the electricity network to ensure it can run that system during peak periods.

So unless we all give up our air conditioners does it mean that the PM’s plan to get the states to rein in energy costs is doomed?

Thankfully, no.

It’s true that if we keep using power the way we have been we’ll face an unpalatable choice: spending many billions on energy infrastructure that we only need one per cent of the time – or acceptance of regular brown outs.

But there is a third path: limit the peaks by getting smarter about energy consumption. Getting smarter – in energy as in everything else - is all about information. Information is essentially the difference between a smart grid and the traditional ‘dumb grid’.

A smart grid is capable of processing information about the behaviours of suppliers and consumers.

Smart grids allow us to manipulate – from both the supply and demand ends - the way energy gets used.

There are two key options the information from a smart grid opens up.

The most obvious is intelligent pricing. Currently, the way we are currently charged for electricity is an economist’s nightmare.

The bloke who turns on his washing machine at 3pm on a summer stinker – when millions of ACs are at full blast – doesn’t incur any extra cost. That’s because the system has no way of accurately monitoring what he’s doing.

Similarly, the woman who runs her dishwasher in the early hours of the morning receives no reward.

But if consumers – and we’re talking here not just about households, but commercial enterprises and industry – are able to shift their usage around certain times of the day and year, peak demand should fall sharply.

Commercial and industrial enterprises in particular could enter into all sorts of creative contracts with energy suppliers not to use power at critical times.

The other option opened up by smart grids is more direct – the remote control of appliances. It sounds scary in theory, but it could be relatively painless.

Through this system, a consumer could sign on for a cheaper energy package, and, in exchange, offer to allow the energy company remote control of key smart appliances.

How would this work in practice? Well, when demand surges in a heatwave, the power company could remotely control your air conditioner to switch off intermittently for, say, one minute out of every ten.

The effect on the temperature of your room would be negligible – but the reduction in energy would be huge when multiplied out over many users.

Australia is taking steps in the right direction. For example, the NBN will make operating smart grid functions easier and more reliable.

But despite the savings, the switch to ‘smart’ will require one extra important investment from government - in skills.

The role of energy worker and information and communication technology professional are merging, and the skills required are becoming more complex.

Yet along with greater sophistication, we will also need more pairs of hands. Already in this country demand for electricians is growing by seven per cent per year – far faster than our training system can currently keep pace with. A transition to smart technology will accelerate this further.

So while the opportunity is there for governments to save a packet on infrastructure over the long term, there is also a pressing need to plough some of those savings into training a new generation of workers.

Get it right though, and we can take a fair bit of the heat out of this energy debate.

Comments on this post will close at 8pm AEST

Most commented

82 comments

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    • John says:

      05:52am | 22/08/12

      This thread will be hijacked by inane comments about the carbon tax.  Nothing is surer.

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      07:57am | 22/08/12

      The carbon tax which would not happen under a Gillard government? The same tax that’s driving up electricity prices? And this article is about what exactly?...........oh that’s right, electricity!

      Will the ALP carbon tax propaganda unit fine me now? Good on ya comrade John. Maintain the rage.

    • dovif says:

      08:02am | 22/08/12

      John

      Well you started it, you started talking about the carbon tax in a tread without any link to the carbon tax. This article actually have nothing to do about our lying, morally bankrupt and possibly corrupt, young and naive PM

    • jonesy says:

      08:17am | 22/08/12

      In WA the Liberal Govt has increased electricity costs by over 57%.  The so-called CT is the least of my worries.
      To example the dupicity of the Liberal Govt water charges have also increased around the same amount and are continuing to rise.  Last year the Water Corp contributed $400 milion to the Govt coffers from its $500 million profit.  Why not let the Water Corp keep its $500 million profit, spend on infrastructure and improving water quality and availability.
      Why is there the need to keep putting up costs?  The Liberals have taken the state deficit from $3 billion to over $20 billion despite record royalties payments, record price increases in utilities, record income from stamp duty and other state taxes.
      The Liberals are building a $400 million lake on the riverside but wont fund an Emergency Trauma unit at the new Fiona Stanley hosp.

    • jonesy says:

      08:20am | 22/08/12

      In WA the Liberal Govt has increased electricity costs by over 57%.  The so-called CT is the least of my worries.
      To example the dupicity of the Liberal Govt water charges have also increased around the same amount and are continuing to rise.  Last year the Water Corp contributed $400 milion to the Govt coffers from its $500 million profit.  Why not let the Water Corp keep its $500 million profit, spend on infrastructure and improving water quality and availability.
      Why is there the need to keep putting up costs?  The Liberals have taken the state deficit from $3 billion to over $20 billion despite record royalties payments, record price increases in utilities, record income from stamp duty and other state taxes.
      The Liberals are building a $400 million lake on the riverside but wont fund an Emergency Trauma unit at the new Fiona Stanley hosp.

    • M says:

      08:38am | 22/08/12

      I blame Tony Abbott for not engaging Gillard in meaningful debate.

      Worst opposition leader, evar.

    • dovif says:

      08:49am | 22/08/12

      Jonesy

      What is your point, In NSW over the last 4 years electricity has risen by about 80%, in victoria, it is similar, and the majority of the time, we have had ALP premiers

      The state govs of NSW and Vic are trying to subsidise other energy by sending money from coal power to “Sustainable” resources like Wind and Solar, which is costing the states billions a year, we are doing it, so China can increase their CO2 emittion by more then Australia’s total emittion every 2-2.5 years

    • dovif says:

      08:50am | 22/08/12

      Jonesy

      What is your point, In NSW over the last 4 years electricity has risen by about 80%, in victoria, it is similar, and the majority of the time, we have had ALP premiers

      The state govs of NSW and Vic are trying to subsidise other energy by sending money from coal power to “Sustainable” resources like Wind and Solar, which is costing the states billions a year, we are doing it, so China can increase their CO2 emittion by more then Australia’s total emittion every 2-2.5 years

    • acotrel says:

      09:01am | 22/08/12

      @Jonesy
      You must be telling porkies !  The Libs couldn’t be all bad ? But someone on this forum did once say ’ the worst Labor government is better than the best Liberal government ‘. Ted Baillieu isn’t looking too flash in Victoria either. He’s cutting TAFE funding, and many people realise it is the only way up for some. But he’s building bigger jails, so that should solve the social problems !

    • jonesy says:

      09:15am | 22/08/12

      @ Dovif per capita Australia produces around 3 times the carbon emissions than China

    • Anubis says:

      09:43am | 22/08/12

      Speaking of inane comments - @Acotrel points us toward one of his ridiculous “home movies” on YouTube.

    • Gus says:

      10:09am | 22/08/12

      “This thread will be hijacked by inane comments about the carbon tax.  Nothing is surer.”

      And its the same old conservative hacks I see. Where do you guys find the time to blindly regurgitate Abbott’s mindless waffle day after day. Surely you must be on the payroll? or unemployable?

    • Gregg says:

      10:17am | 22/08/12

      @jonesy
      ”  @ Dovif per capita Australia produces around 3 times the carbon emissions than China “

      And so much of their population still probably has minimal power supplies and appliances etc.
      With the Chinese population, those a bit concerned over CO2 emissions can be thankful their per capita output is well behind but they ought to be a damm lot more concerned about their total and increasing output.

    • thatmosis says:

      10:50am | 22/08/12

      I love these little rants about the price of electricity and water because I don’t pay any bills for them at all. Had the sense to put in 100% solar and my own water tanks, and septic, so no water bills, no electricity bills and no sewerage bills, have a nice day.
        Unfortunately you are reaping what you sowed by electing, almost, this incompetent Government and all the previous Labor State Government who increased all the prices on water and electricity time and time again.
        As for the Carbon Tax as the man said “you aint seen nothing yet” as everything we buy or manufacture will be impacted by this Tax on Nothing for nothing. Even the lowly loaf of bread will increase in price as this tax finally hits home and the so called compensation package will go nowhere to relieving the pain felt by those that can least afford it, but at least the pokies did well out of it.

    • gobsmack says:

      11:03am | 22/08/12

      Whoever you want to blame “jonesy” is correct in observing that power prices have skyrocketed all over Australia in the last few years with hardly a complaint.

      But when a relatively modest increase from the Carbon Tax occurs, suddenly the populace is reaching for the ptichforks and torches and blaming all their woes on Gillard.

    • Little Joe says:

      06:39am | 22/08/12

      “Commercial and industrial enterprises in particular could enter into all sorts of creative contracts with energy suppliers not to use power at critical times.”

      You had better tell the workplace unions about your plans also!!!

      Ps. Our roads are supposed to be built for peak loads also ..... not that many of them in capital cities cope with peak load!!!

      Reply

    • Tim says:

      07:43am | 22/08/12

      Yes our roads are meant to be designed for near peak loads.

      And what do we have during peak hour? Traffic slowdowns, the exact same thing that the article is talking about with respect to electricity.

      Either accept that we need to do things smarter, have rolling brownouts or things become much more expensive.

      Nah much easier to blame it on the carbon tax.

    • Arthur says:

      06:48am | 22/08/12

      What about our 20% population increase since.Tubbies adds?

      How long will we pretend our problems are anything but the real one? Too many people.

      Reply

    • M says:

      07:45am | 22/08/12

      How are we supposed to combat our growing population? A 1.5 child policy?

    • acotrel says:

      07:46am | 22/08/12

      In Australia?  You just have to be joking !
      Population is only a problem for people like yourself who refuse to decentralise and exert yourself to do something constructive instead of whinging.

    • Gregg says:

      08:08am | 22/08/12

      There are some tiny countries with less population than Australia Arthur, some with even equivalent or more too and quite a few countries with many more people than Australia who have all been doing reasonably well over many more centuries.
      It is more about how a country and all aspects are managed that will make a successful country.

      Australia’s greatest problems re population will be water, flocking to cities and lack of employment for productive work that can result in international trading and we already have those problems too.

    • Arthur says:

      09:06am | 22/08/12

      @B…...........“How are we supposed to combat our growing population? A 1.5 child policy?”.................

      Stop immigration. That wasn’t so hard to work out was it?

      @acotrel…...............“You just have to be joking !”...................

      Not joking at all. We kill more species than any other country on the planet.

      @Gregg…..................“There are some tiny countries with less population than Australia “..................

      Where? I’m not going to tell you why Australia is infinitely different than more populated places because surely to have an opinion (and sadly you vote with that opinion) you’d know.

      Australia is horrifically over populated. The best ecologists in the world say we can sustain about 12 million. We’re now double that and will double again (to start with). It’s the dumbest thing any democracy has done in the history of the world.

      Answer this. Why would we want to?

      See if you can come up with something more sensible than the BS tax payer/ageing population.

    • L. says:

      11:39am | 22/08/12

      “See if you can come up with something more sensible than the BS tax payer/ageing population.”

      I’ll have a crack… National defense.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:52am | 22/08/12

      “The best ecologists in the world say we can sustain about 12 million.”

      Citation please. But not some blog written by some other tinfoil hat wearer. Something written in a credible peer-reviewed scientific journal.

      “See if you can come up with something more sensible than the BS tax payer/ageing population.”

      This is a credible problem. With so many people in retirement there will not be a taxpayer base large enough to support it. We used to have a 6:1 taxpayer to retiree proportion. Soon it’s going to be 2:1. This will have catastrophic economic consequences.

      and we haven’t even gotten to the part where bigger populations support more diverse economies and more economic opportunity such as in the US.

      Methinks your citations aren’t going to be very reliable.

    • Arthur says:

      02:30pm | 22/08/12

      Do your own research tubesteak, I’ve got better things to do than educate people that cannot see.

      Off the top of my head, David Suzuki, Tim Flannery, Many international journal writers….but if you know better, that’s good. Is it all about money is it? When we’re as full as India, you (or rather your kids kids) will do anything to overcome the horrible world we so greedily, selfishly and above all else stupidly left them.

      @L…........“I’ll have a crack… National defence”...........

      It’s been a while since wars were won with the biggest number of cannon fodder. Wars are won with money, not personnel…..Really, defence, that’s your reason?

    • M says:

      06:48am | 22/08/12

      One thing that would have a huge impact on energy costs accross the country is smarter building with regards to internal insulation.

      Reply

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:39am | 22/08/12

      This.  My house is terribly insulated at the moment (that is, not at all).  I’m determined to do something about it over summer so next winter (remember, Tassie) we’re that much better off.

    • M says:

      08:13am | 22/08/12

      There’s a heap of foam products on the market these days Mahhrat. I assume you’ve heard about double/triple glazed windows as well. All the insulation products pay for themselves surprisingly quickly.

    • Gregg says:

      08:20am | 22/08/12

      There has been some smart building occurring for decades now and rather than think about insulation as an add on, it is the building design in layout, materials and functioning with passive solar heating and natural cooling that can do a heap good.
      Latest building technique I’ve noted is the use of lightweight foam sheeting as an external base for cladding, it of course being rendered over.

      I was having a look at a particular house the other day and installers were putting up solar PV panels and I thought it’s going to be a whopper of a system, turns out it’ll be 28 Kw! , making my 4 Kw look piddly small.
      The other advantage that is probably not thought of so much with solar panels is the natural cooling impact for the sun is now generating energy at the same time as restricting heating of the roof and probably in effect creates a natural thermal driven air current between panels and roof.

      Unfortunately, with existing houses, getting insulation can be messy and for you Mahrat, it might even be worth considering battening the outside and using something like foam panels depending on the house.

    • mahhrat says:

      09:55am | 22/08/12

      @M: Aye, the trouble is my house largely needs to be rebuilt.  The - everything - is shit.  Half my windows don’t even open, though in Tassie that isn’t such a big deal.

      My plans are cladding, which will include new eaves, gutters and windows throughout.  The cladding I have in mind contains a 25mm insulating layer.  I will double-glaze the front windows (noise reduction), and I’ll put a new layer of pink batts in roof.

      That’s about $15k though, and I went overseas this year instead.  Bugger smile

    • Gregg says:

      01:02pm | 22/08/12

      @M
      Yep, looks like that Brisbane fella has got himself a good little money spinner going and aside from the roof looking a bit unsightly, I hope those overhang bits out past the roof hip line will be OK in good stormy weather.
      I’m not paying any electricity bill, income being more modest with just 4 kW and I kind of sized that so as 18 panels were a good fit on the northerly facing roof, such that it is really just more part of the roof look.

      Taking things to extreme, one comment on that article indicates what could happen:
      ” Lets take this to its logical conclusion, many more people follow Terry’s lead and install huge solar panel arrays. (although it no longer possible)
      Power companies cease to supply power during the day as solar takes over, the power companies have no business model and are forced to shut down.
      Who exactly provides power at night?
      Power stations cannot be switched on and off at the flick of a switch. But if its not economical for a power to make no money during the day their only option will be to charge excessive amount per kW for night usage to cover for their losses during the day. This is a lose-lose situation for all electricity users. “

      Already, I’ve read of people over in Stanthorpe area having their solar generation restricted and so that is what could likely happen as more and more solar units are installed, the doing of that written into contracts if you read them closely so the commenter is overly alarmed as the over supply situation does seem to be covered.

    • Tim says:

      07:47am | 22/08/12

      Great article.
      Far too many people have no idea how our electricity system works and just expect to be able to use as much energy as they want, when the want without having to incur any additional costs.

      We need to do things smarter or people have to understand the realities of possible rolling brownouts. Electricity doesn’t magically appear in your appliances.

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      07:53am | 22/08/12

      Then again, the guy who has a roof full of solar panels gets no carbon tax compensation because all the ALP are interested in is the size of his wallet not how he pollutes. Not his carbon footprint. But no solar panels and dumb as dog shit…..here have some money! Why? Because its socialist wealth redistribution and nothing else.

      Reply

    • John says:

      08:26am | 22/08/12

      Hey champ, the guy with a roof full of panels doesn’t take electricity from the grid and so doesn’t pay the tax.  Doh!

    • jonesy says:

      08:46am | 22/08/12

      @Dash @John
      Not only doesn’t he pay the tax,  in WA he gets paid for any ‘excess’ his panels produce and feed into the grid

    • Al says:

      09:01am | 22/08/12

      John - you are neglecting a few things:
      1) Unless you purchase the top of the line solar panels they cost more in power and resources to produce than they will generate in a lifetime.
      2) Very few people with solar panels actualy have the batteries to store the charge and it goes into the grid, at night they draw from the grid (at the usual electricity cost, just minus what was sold to the grid by solar panel generation). People with solar panels, except in a small % of cases, still draw power from the grid.

    • Little Joe says:

      09:06am | 22/08/12

      @ Dash

      The application of solar panels is one of the worst Government Programs in history.

      Subsidised persons who are usually relatively wealthy .... compared with some Australians anyway .... and have most of their solar system subsidised by the government. So the average Australian taxpayer has paid a lions share for the system.

      If the system is large enough they get to collect over $0.40c/kW that they pump into the grid ..... well above the average cost of electricity. This can be quite a windfall when the go on their annual holiday. Of course, this only increases the cost of electricity to the average Australian taxpayer ..... so we get hit again!!!

      Urban Solar Systems should have been installed on every school block, government office, police station, customs house, council building etc etc ..... then on every secure community building, scout hall, football change room etc etc ..... before even contemplating the implementation of an expensive subsidised program that only benefits the people who own a house and have a few thousand dollars in the bank after paying the mortgage, not all Australians.

      The other benefit of this is that we wouldn’t have the 1000’s of systems on roofs that have been poorly installed and do not work!!!

    • John says:

      09:14am | 22/08/12

      @Al, to the extent that they are drawing from the grid, they should pay the tax. Either way, Dash is wrong.

    • Anubis says:

      09:54am | 22/08/12

      @ John - Dash is actually right. We are all paying for the carbon tax through increased energy prices and the flow on price increases through the manufacturing, distribution and retail chain. Dash’s point is that regardless of whether a person has a fully insulated house with a roof full of solar panels, if their income is greater than $80,000 they do not get the “dumb as dog shit” handouts being given to the Labor heartland of bludgers. So in effect those that have made the sacrifice to prep their homes still have to carry the burden of the CArbon Tax depending upon the size of their wallet while the DasDS bludgers with 8 juvenile delinquents, no solar panels, no insulation and running every light in the house plus the beer fridge plus anything else they can plug in, with no thought to reducing their power consumption, get handouts from the Government in order to maintain their excessive usage life style because they are too stupid to be able to get themselves a decently paid job

    • Dash says:

      10:33am | 22/08/12

      OMG!! You just don’t get the point i’m making! Let me spell it out.

      The compensation scheme under the carbon tax is the real reason for the tax. It has nothing to do with the environment. It is the application of the Socialist tax manifesto. Pure and simple wealth redistribution.

      The ALP have made over 3 million Australians worse off and used the environment as an excuse.

      The ALP are corrupt! They are discriminating against people on the basis of their income, not on the basis of how they pollute or their carbon footprint. That is the point I make Mr Johnny smarty pants - and that is the truth. I am not wrong. The ALP do not care about my carbon footprint. Just what seat I live in and how much I earn!!! DOH!

      Sorry if it’s too confusing for you to understand comrade! Get off the ALP gravy train! People should not be penalised on the basis of their income if this is truely about making “Big polluters pay”! You are a first class fool if you have fallen for that bullshit from the ALP. If this is about the environment, why do some people (who pollute more than I do) deserve to be made better off?? It’s a fraud.

      The ALP are making big taxpayers pay! And redistributing their income for political gain! It’s socialism parading as environmentalism.

      As I’ve said, if you educate yourself, work hard and become successful, the ALP has a massive target on your back. But if you are as dumb as dogshit, lying on a beach somewhere smoking dope and paying no tax…..here have some money! Go ahead, support that if you must John old champ. That says a lot about you!

    • Dash says:

      10:35am | 22/08/12

      @Anubis - thank you. Yes that’s exactly my point! But I don’t expect people on the ALP gravy train to understand.

    • M says:

      10:54am | 22/08/12

      Dash is actually making a lot of sense.

    • gobsmack says:

      11:12am | 22/08/12

      If you have solar panels you are consuming less electricity and therefore not wearing as much of the cost of the carbon tax.

      People on low incomes and especially those renting do not have the option of mitigating their power consumption by installing solar panels.

      Some people just like to whinge no matter how well off they are.

    • Dash says:

      12:02pm | 22/08/12

      @gobsmack - I do not believe in the ALP’s class wars or their socialist wealth distribution parading as environmentalism. I do not believe we should actively target and punish people for their success. I do not believe we should formulate policy on the tall poppy syndrome. If that makes me a whinger, then so be it!

      I would feel much worse if I just blindly accepted and even actively defended, the fraud, lies and incompetence of this government.

    • andye says:

      01:37pm | 22/08/12

      @Dash - ” It is the application of the Socialist tax manifesto. Pure and simple wealth redistribution.”

      A Carbon Tax has been shown to hit lower incomes the hardest. Furthermore, low incomes have fallen compared to high incomes in the time since Howard’s tax cuts at the top end.

      Was that class warfare, or is only class warfare when Labor does it?


      @dash- “As I’ve said, if you educate yourself, work hard and become successful, the ALP has a massive target on your back. But if you are as dumb as dogshit, lying on a beach somewhere smoking dope and paying no tax…..here have some money! “

      Hmmm, if you aren’t paying any tax, then you aren’t going to get much of a tax cut. “lying on a beach somewhere smoking dope”? jeez you guys have active imaginations. You are angry at a hell of a lot of imaginary people. I guess you must build up a lot of anger torturing puppies every night in your rich guy puppy torture chamber. (see how easy it is to make sh** up?)

      I am one of the high earners that doesnt get anything back and I think you are being ridiculous. Tony’s plan is direct action. Do you realise this will involve money that is collected mostly from high earners basically being given to the polluters? What about the $3 billion a year parental leave plan? This is (last time i checked) being paid for by a new business tax against the top X companies. Do you think THOSE costs aren’t going to be passed on to the consumers as well? This is as much as the NBN, which is apparently about to ruin us and around 1/2 to 1/3 of the carbon tax total. At least the NBN gives un national infrastructure and the carbon tax promotes investment in green tech. The parental leave scheme is PURE SOCIALISM and I dare you to explain how it is not.

      Your anger at this “wealth redistribution” would make a lot more sense if you were angry about other examples, but you aren’t. You are happy with wealth redistribution when it is convenient for you and all up in arms when it isn’t. It is just partisan spin and you are either a spin doctor or a sucker parroting ludicrous political rhetoric.

      The Libs are going to come in and blow my taxes on a bunch of terrible policies all while you guys cannot think past name calling and stereotypes.

    • Dave says:

      08:07am | 22/08/12

      Giving the government the ability to disable “inappropriate” devices such as air conditioners remotely.

      What a delightful idea. I can’t imagine anything could go wrong in that scenario, and I’m sure they would restrain themselves to turning it off for one minute in ten, and only when peak power load is hit!

      Reply

    • John says:

      09:18am | 22/08/12

      If you don’t trust the power companies to get it right, don’t sign up. But don’t complain when the people who do sign up get reductions in their electricity bills, and you don’t.

    • Tubesteak says:

      08:07am | 22/08/12

      Considering our population is destined to continue to grow you might as well continue increasing the energy supply so that it can easily meet demand all the time.

      No need for this silly remote controlling crap or asking us to be “smarter”.

      It’s like with our roads. There is no longer any justification to build 2 lane highways when demand means we should be building 8 lane highways that will be capable of dealing with the inevitable growth and usage requirements.

      That is why I pay taxes. I expect you to build the infrastrcture that will be able to cope with my demand as and when I see fit and as and when I choose to use it. I don’t pay taxes so that you waste it on vote-buying middle-class welfare such as maternity leave schemes and baby bonuses.

      Build the infrastrcture that easily copes with demand. End of story.

      Reply

    • Tim says:

      08:31am | 22/08/12

      Tubesteak,
      If that’s the case are you prepared for your energy bill to exponentially increase in the future?
      It’s ok to say you want the infrastructure as long as you’re willing to pay for it.

      Unfortunately as I expect this thread to show, most people aren’t.

    • Steve says:

      08:34am | 22/08/12

      Except genius this costs a bucketload of money, which you will no doubt complain about. So instead of doing something clever to manage demand and reduce costs (surely both desirable) we just keep building extra capacity that costs a heap and thus costs so much that there is no political will to fix the situation.

      I despair for our great nation sometimes. The problem, as with most policies, is you’ve got politicians, ‘advisers’, incompetent or deceitful journos, and political fanbois instead of experts having a greater say towards policy formation and implementation.

      I expect this will just turn ino carbon tax this, Abbott that, Gillard this - pathetic level of commentary.

      A great article for what it’s worth, not much more needs to be said other than we would be stupid not to think about the benefits of smart grids.

    • iansand says:

      08:46am | 22/08/12

      Off peak hot water is crap?  When did that happen?  You have probably been living with a remotely appliance for decades - you just have not realised it.

    • iansand says:

      09:03am | 22/08/12

      *Ahem* There should have been a “controlled” in there somewhere.

    • M says:

      09:18am | 22/08/12

      “Except genius this costs a bucketload of money”

      Well no shit? Let me think, where could we get some of this money from?

      Paid parental leave
      Baby bonus
      First home buyers grant.

    • Wickerman says:

      10:42am | 22/08/12

      Agree totally Tubesteak.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      11:03am | 22/08/12

      Did you miss the part where Tube mentioned that we could stop spending money on wealth redistribution schemes for people who can work but don’t want to and actually sped our taxes on things we actually need? Derp Tim and Steve, very derp.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:26am | 22/08/12

      Tim and Steve
      I pay for it through taxes. I expoect the government to fund the infrastructure that my taxes pay for instead of wasting on buying votes by giving people hand-outs they don’t need. Our taxes are more than adequate to pay for the things we need. They get stretched when it goes into useless programs like baby bonuses, maternity leave, FHOG and an inflated public service throughly surplus to the demands on it when they could be forced to corporatise and work like the private sector.

      iansand
      I was referring to remotely controlling an airconditioner which I would be using at the time and would be required to work harder due to being switched off. Of course, it wouldn’t work in the way suggested because you simply cannot get that level of “remote control”.

    • AdamC says:

      12:22pm | 22/08/12

      @Tim, there is no reason to believe that investing in electricity infrastructure will ‘exponentially’ increase prices. What will do that is scarcity of supply, which is not helped by various government policies implemented over time. These include the renewable energy target and the carbon tax.

    • Tim says:

      12:38pm | 22/08/12

      Admiral,
      what are you on about?
      We still have to pay for it, whether you do it out of government savings or not. You want to replace one form of wasteful spending with another, whereas I don’t.

      Tubesteak,
      The government funding this is exactly the kind of bad subsidy you’re talking about. Why should the government fund a minority of people’s inability to pay the true cost of their own electricity usage?

      You’re asking other users to fund your electricity use because you don’t want to pay the peak price. Why should other more frugal and responsible customers have to pay so you can do whatever you want?

      I don’t actually agree with allowing remote control of people’s appliances but we definitely need better real time peak pricing of electricity so that high peak time users pay the true price of their usage.

      I’m surprised that someone arguing against government handouts would object to user pays pricing for electricity and infrastructure.

    • Tim says:

      12:44pm | 22/08/12

      AdamC,
      not charging people the true cost of their energy gives no price signal to high peak users to reduce or curb their usage during these periods.

      Hence everyone else has to pay for infrastructure that is only being used by a small proportion of the population.
      This means that peak usage will continue to grow as will prices.

      Honestly the conservative position on this issue should be that user pays whereas currently everyone is subsidising a minority of people. It’s clearly inequitable.

    • andye says:

      07:32pm | 22/08/12

      @TubeSteak - “It’s like with our roads. There is no longer any justification to build 2 lane highways when demand means we should be building 8 lane highways that will be capable of dealing with the inevitable growth and usage requirements.”

      This is an excellent justification for the (FTTH) NBN. I agree.

      @Steve - “I despair for our great nation sometimes. The problem, as with most policies, is you’ve got politicians, ‘advisers’, incompetent or deceitful journos, and political fanbois instead of experts having a greater say towards policy formation and implementation.”

      Agree. Furthermore, the positions on any policy pretty quickly settle into partisan sides sniping and it is hard to break any discussion out of the piles of steaming bull**** that creates. it is hard to take and position on an issue or policy without taking on all the baggage of a pre-defined “side”.

      @Tim - “not charging people the true cost of their energy gives no price signal to high peak users to reduce or curb their usage during these periods.”

      Exactly. Incidentally, this is exactly the main mechanism of the carbon tax.

      Electricity drives our homes and our western decadence. Which I love. Decadence is awesome. Electricity is awesome. We should use it wisely, however. Pricing anything is a fantastic way of making people use it more wisely.

      @Tim - “Honestly the conservative position on this issue should be that user pays whereas currently everyone is subsidising a minority of people. It’s clearly inequitable.”

      Indeed. The true conservative position on many issues seems to have been transformed into a reactionary position against socialism, with a dash of downward envy. Much of that socialism was created by the Greatest Generation after the war. A balance is what has driven our success. The pendulum swinging left and right is what keeps each side in check and wipes away the corruption that inevitably develops.

      What is weird is how lots of traditionally conservative approaches to a problem (like a carbon tax) are being attacked as socialism while the alternate policy is more socialist. The Liberal Party seems far from any kind of traditional conservative position. Which makes the constant parroting of “socialism! wealth redistribution!” a bit rich.

      In the words of the great philosopher Blackboard: “Upside down, miss Jane!”

      Wise words, indeed.

    • Joan says:

      08:12am | 22/08/12

      Australia - with worlds most expensive electricity while sitting on world`s greatest abundance of cheap energy resource just proves we`re world`s biggest idiots. A pack of whingers who don’t know how to usefully, industriously make the most of the natural abundance Ausrtalia gives us and are idiotic enough to add a Cabon Tax which will not change world climate. The excess power exists because business going off shore in droves. Thanks to Gillard

      Reply

    • L. says:

      08:40am | 22/08/12

      Joan,

      The article isn’t talking about the generation network, it’s talking about the distribution network. Two very different things.

    • Tim says:

      09:27am | 22/08/12

      And only four comments below mine Joan gives a great example of the public ignorance of the electricity network I was talking aobut.
      Seems she thinks that coal somehow magically powers her home from afar.

    • Joan says:

      12:42pm | 22/08/12

      Tim: Idiots at work OK. Smart thinking makes most of a cheap resource, facilitates production of power at lowest price and lowest cost of distribution. Peaks and troughs happen in all the world- nothing unique about that- what is unique with all our asssets we can make it world most expensive.

    • Terry2 says:

      08:21am | 22/08/12

      I queried my power bill earlier this year and an automaton spruked the standard corporate response about upgrading infrastructure to accommodate the increased demand due to airconditioning, plasma televisions etc. As I don’t have either I suggested that perhaps the flat charge per kwhour needs to reflect usage by introducing an increasing scale of charges as you exceed ‘reasonable’  consumption. I was told that commercial and farm operations did have such a scale BUT it actually got cheaper per kwhour the more power you consumed.

      Reply

    • Achmed says:

      08:42am | 22/08/12

      People do understand that the GST added more to the cost of electricity costs than the carbon price?  In WA the state Liberal Govt have increased electricity costs by 57% in the last 3 years.  And yet according to the Liberal faithfull the only thing that is ruining business is the carbon increase.

      I note that while the Liberal sychophants rave about the terrible carbon price introduced by Labor they never extoll the virtues of Abbott’s Direct Action Plan.  That’s the Plan to give the polluters taxpayer money from the budget.  Wait and see how much taxes will increase to provide this money train to big business.

      Reply

    • james says:

      09:56am | 22/08/12

      Dont be silly achmed, firstly with that name you are 1) an illegal boat arrival
      2) sucking off the government teat 3) talking too much sense for our conservative friends.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      10:26am | 22/08/12

      Yeah tell me about it! The silence from the Tory boys on Abbott’s scheme to bribe polluters to stop polluting is deafening. Corporate socialism nothing less, without a single reputable economist to explain it let alone defend it.

    • Achmed says:

      10:46am | 22/08/12

      Oh James you couldn’t help playing that card.

      Not that I should need to explain myslef but I have never taken a cent in Govt money.  Unlike todays generation who expect and demand money because they have kids or maternity leave or kids in child care or for school uniforms.
      And i’ve been in Aust since 1953.  Served in the Australian Army, so did one brother.  I have 2 nephews, one in the navy another in the Airforce (oh the shame).  We have all served overseas and fought for our country.

    • james says:

      11:39am | 22/08/12

      Achmed, i think you misread my sarcasm, my post was a slight against less tolerant here, not me smile

    • Bertie Wooster says:

      11:51am | 22/08/12

      Hey Achmed, I think James is on your side. Check point 3, bud.

    • Bertie Wooster says:

      11:51am | 22/08/12

      Hey Achmed, I think James is on your side. Check point 3, bud.

    • Achmed says:

      06:25pm | 22/08/12

      James… my apologies i mis-read…..

    • sunny says:

      08:55am | 22/08/12

      Good article, very interesting.

      I reckon we also need to have an ad (maybe Tubby Taylor can assist) to encourage people to hang their dang washing out on THE LINE on a hot day instead of using the dryer. .. and also wash their dang dishes in THE SINK when they have less than half a dishwasher load.

      Reply

    • martinX says:

      10:04am | 22/08/12

      I love my FP dishdrawers. No such thing as a “half load” and a fast wash takes 45 minutes.

      100% agree on the ‘solar powered clothes dryer’, though. Nothing wrong with the Hill’s hoist, especially in Queensland.

    • LoOnAtiK says:

      10:11am | 22/08/12

      They could also have one TV with DVd etc attached instead of one in every room. One computer instead of one in every room.  That would mean learning to share and compromise. One phone/ipad whatever instead of multiples on chargers.

    • sunny says:

      11:46am | 22/08/12

      martinX - call 45 minutes a fast wash! I bet I could do the same job in 20 with the old fashioned dishcloth and sink method ..we could set up a contest, me against the machine, I’d be the John Henry of dishwashing and defeat the machine only to die of exhaustion with the dishcloth in my hand, and they’d all sing folk ballads about the feat.

    • sunny says:

      12:25pm | 22/08/12

      LoOnAtiK - and all these devices/appliances draw a small amount of charge just by being plugged in sitting idle, whether to power led lights or internal clocks or standby systems or what not. If everyone unplugged everything from the wall overnight (or when not in use) that in itself would be a significant power saving. It’s not practical and people won’t take the trouble, but systems can make it practical, like a house-wide master switch that de-powers everything (from mains) on going to bed, and powers it all back up when getting up in the morning.

    • Roy says:

      09:57am | 22/08/12

      You’re all worried about power price increases? Then lobby your government to stop subsidising solar power! That’s where a lot of the price increases are coming from, the people that don’t have solar are paying the rebate for those that do. There’s another issue arising from solar power, white outs! Yes there’s too much power in the grid at times and it’s only going to get worse because if the sun’s blazing at midday too much power is going into the grid and it’s not like the power company can turn off generators like they do normally if there no-one using power. So they’ll have to find ways to dissipate it, maybe arc it off or boil a ton of water or something, perhaps they should convert water into hydrogen and oxygen because we’re going to need them in the future. You’ve been warned!

      Reply

    • MarkF says:

      04:35pm | 22/08/12

      As soon as Bob Taylor mentioned a smart grid (smart meters??) I had to go back and see if he was tied up with the electricity industry.  The only thing I’ve heard about smart meters is consumers getting gouged even more with peak prices twice what they used to pay, shoulder prices about the same and a tiny bit off on off peak when they sleep. 

      As far as letting the electricity company control my air conditioner, I don’t think so.  Being a shift worker trying to sleep through a summers day in Queensland without air or intermittent air is out of the question.  Would I trust the power companies to do the right thing?  Doubtful.

      Come on Bob.  Instead of pushing this smart meter/grid crap designed to increase already high electricity prices, how about coming up with an idea that would help the majority reduce their bills.

      Reply
 
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