A rape is never the victim’s fault.

A vigil in India for the rape victim. Pic: AP

Hopefully, Dear Reader, you read that line, rolled your eyes in exasperation and thought to yourself “sheesh, crazy lady, tell us something we don’t know!”.

Most of you will read no further for fear of encountering more mundane obviousness.  But some of you will cock your head, maybe, say something like “weelllllll sometimes maybe it’s her fault… just a little bit…”. So this is for you douchebags in the latter group.

Let’s start again. A rape is never the victim’s fault. A rape is when you have sex with someone against their will so it can never, ever be their fault.

In India, six men raped a woman to death. To death. The details are something from a dark, twisted nightmare. Rape is rife in parts of India for a range of reasons, not least because some people consider a woman alone, or out at night, or dressing ‘immodestly’ or hanging with the wrong crowd, or - heaven forbid - riding a bus with a friend - indicates she is of ‘loose morals’. Or ‘asking for it’. Women often don’t report rape out of shame - because they are shamed by it, ferchrissakes - and when they do, they rarely get justice.

In Swaziland over Christmas the powers-that-be banned rape-provoking mini-skirts and crop tops. It’s not up to the men to control their urges, but up to the women not to tempt them. Classic uber-conservative logic.

There’s an archaic law that police have said they will now enforce for women’s own protection. A police spokeswoman said that “the act of the rapist is made easy, because it would be easy to remove the half-cloth worn by the women” and that women should strive not to excite men.

Luckily the women are free to wear a tiny traditional belt when they dance for the king. It leaves their bums and boobs exposed but apparently no one’s been raped while wearing it. 

Then there’s the Italian priest who blamed provocative women for domestic violence and sexual abuse.

These are all versions of Australia’s Sheik al Hilali’s now infamous remark blaming women for sex attacks by comparing them to ‘uncovered meat’ that attracted predators. It’s victim blaming. It’s a bizarre belief in a strange world where men’s wills are so weak they cannot refrain from hitting or raping a woman at the slightest provocation. Where women are Sirens, luring helpless men.

A picture popped up in my Facebook feed last week. A woman with a sign reading “I drank too much, flirted and my shorts (were) too short. I was asking for it”. The sign is from a 2011 Slutwalk but the comments on it are raging today.

She shouldn’t have been out that late. She shouldn’t have been drunk. If you dress like a slut you are a slut. If you dress like that you deserve it.

India. Africa. Italy. The US. Australia. The victim blaming is happening everywhere.

In Australia many people try to disguise their shaming by cloaking it in terms of personal responsibility. They might say, for example, that for their own safety women – or vulnerable men - shouldn’t be out late, or drunk, or in sexy clothes. You can say that to your daughter, maybe. Because when it comes to someone near and dear to you you want to reduce any risks to their wellbeing, and there are increased risks of assaults by a stranger if alcohol is involved.

But what about all those rapes that occur inside? By relatives, by friends, by colleagues?

By saying women shouldn’t be out late, or drunk, or in sexy clothes, you may as well say; women shouldn’t be gadding about without a chastity belt; they shouldn’t be alone with their uncles or their fathers or the guys from school or the footy team. They shouldn’t have been on a date, or with people from work.

No one has come out and blamed this poor, unnamed Indian student for her own heartbreaking trauma. But every time you suggest that a woman, by her behaviour or her dress, is even a little bit at fault for her own rape, that is what you are doing - blaming and shaming. 

Comments on this post will close at 6pm AEDST.

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    • wakeupcall says:

      09:31am | 01/01/13

      Sadly Tory appears to have misunderstood the issues. She seems to think risk minimization (dressing appropriately, exercising caution, not inviting sexual advances from the wrong people and sobriety) and blaming the victim are the same. They are not. In a utopian ideal world where all men always behave properly, there is no rape or domestic violence. Sadly, this utopian ideal world exists only in the minds of extreme feminist idealists and green party hippies. Men who rape or hurt women are always fully responsible for their crimes and should be prosecuted, and given stern sentences. They should never be acquitted or have their sentences reduced to any degree because of ‘provocation’.

      But women should, as a matter of their own safety and security minimise the risk when they can. They should judge each situation and be aware of dangers. That means dressing and behaving appropriately, sometimes modestly, according to culture and the context. Even extreme modesty can be provocative ie extreme religious dress such as a full Christian nun’s habit can be provocative if worn in Lakemba (would Tory encourage women to do this – I doubt it) or the full niqab in a very poor white working class or Jewish suburb (but I suspect that Tory would probably support and encourage this – she should make clear her views if not). Dress can provoke violence.

      Like it or not, dress carries a powerful message which can be deliberately provocative. However, and very importantly, even if women fail to dress appropriately or even dress provocatively, they are not in any way to blame legally for any consequences and their behaviour must not be used to justify acquittal or sentence reduction – not to any degree at all.

      Anyone who, out of idealistic feminist extremism, distorts that message puts women at risk for the sake of their own political agenda.  This is the clear message you should be giving women and girls if you really care about them Tory. And you still have not named the Adelaide Convention Centre honour killing for what it is Tory – an Islamic honour killing. What does that say about your real concern for women? Minority women don’t count if there is a risk you, (so quick to label others?), might be called racist? Now censor that Tory and show how hollow your free speech stance always was. Free speech for you but not for anyone disagrees with you?

    • PeterH says:

      10:34am | 01/01/13

      Exactly wakeupcall,

      No different to the police or insurance companies advising owners to lock up their valuables to minimise the risk of theft.  When a break in occurs the theif is 100% responsible but it is just common sense to minimise the risk of becoming a victim.

    • Levi says:

      10:59am | 01/01/13

      “Even extreme modesty can be provocative ie extreme religious dress such as a full Christian nun’s habit can be provocative if worn in Lakemba (would Tory encourage women to do this – I doubt it) or the full niqab in a very poor white working class or Jewish suburb (but I suspect that Tory would probably support and encourage this – she should make clear her views if not). Dress can provoke violence.”

      - Haha, maybe Tory and Joe Hildebrand could do a poorly thought out and biased doco on it. Would be a real hoot. But I think deep down we all know the nun would be spat on or otherwise assaulted, whereas the niquab wearer would be at worst subjected to stares and abuse.

      But I digress. Tory is indeed confusing the separate issues of risk minimisation and victim blaming.

      For example, I COULD climb into an enclosure containing hungry lions and expect them to respect my right not to be eaten as I am neither a gazelle nor a zebra, but that’s just ridiculous.

      If I were a young woman, I COULD wear a mini-skirt, drink 14 shots of tequila, flirt with 40-50 sweaty, drunk males on a dance floor, THEN accept an offer of a lift home and pass out and get raped, but I’d rather not. Instead I COULD choose to not have 14 shots and minimise my risk of being taken advantage of in the process.

      People also raise an interesting point in that consent can not legally be given if a woman is drunk, thereby removing all responsibility on her part. Wait a minute, wasn’t she the one who made the conscious choice to drink that amount in the first place? Where does the responsibility lie with that? Given that in the majority of circumstances the perpetrator of the rape is no doubt also drunk/high, does that then remove any legal responsibility on his part? I thought not…..

      Using alcohol or drugs as a way to absolve responsibility for a terrible act is just cowardly. I might consider that defence next time I climb into my car after 10 hours at the pub and run over a 5 year old.

      Anyway enough ranting. I think the point is it’s not as black and white as Tory claims it to be. It’s a big, scary world out there full of dodgy, nasty, seedy and sometimes downright evil people. Is it too much to ask that women, especially young ones, exercise some rudimentary caution when letting their hair down for a night?

      (Disclaimer: I realise this article is mostly about the young woman in India. What happened to her was atrocious and does not relate to what I’ve written above. I’m more addressing Tory’s point that women have absolutely NO RESPONSIBILITY when it comes to the drinking/revealing dress/ partying rape situation.)

      Oh and also thumbs up to what Helt said.

    • Philosopher says:

      11:04am | 01/01/13

      you’re correct. Just as young men who are punched to the ground, stabbed and generally make themselves available for premature death, should do more to minimise their risks. No no-one is suggesting they ‘deserve to die’, but really, what were they thinking, relaxing, drinking, consorting with beasts in human form?

    • Leah says:

      11:12am | 01/01/13

      Levi, while I agree there is a difference between risk minimisation and victim-blaming, your analogy with the zoo enclosure is just stupid. If somebody climbs into a lion enclosure hoping to not be eaten, it IS their fault if they get attacked, because really a human has no more right to not be attacked by a lion than a gazelle or zebra does. The lion isn’t making the choice to take advantage of your stupidity, he just doesn’t know the difference - he views you as food just as much as a gazelle is.

      A rapist or assaulter, though, knows just as well that they shouldn’t be raping/assaulting a lone drunk girl wearing skimpy clothes, as a sober/covered-up/accompanied girl. They’ve made the decision to do the wrong thing.

      Don’t get me wrong, I agree that women should attempt to minimise risks in terms of where they go, with whom, and how they’re dressed (and blokes too really) but trying to draw an analogy with a lion that knows no different is going down the wrong path.

    • Smart A says:

      11:27am | 01/01/13

      Sadly for Tory Im an expert on everything and know better than her. Where’s the evidence that how you dress contributes? Being in the wrong place is surely more a possibility. It’s never the victims fault but…..... You say. There’s a lot of tacit acceptance of rape in society too. Should have just said it was Gillards fault. They’d buy that.

    • John says:

      11:42am | 01/01/13

      @Levi

      What a stupid comment. Lions are animals who act on instinct. They have no sense of right or wrong or morality or the law. Men either know better or should know better. That is why rapists are held accountable for their actions.

      Lions don’t make conscious choices to eat people after giving it all due consideration. They just do it. That’s why it is inevitable that if you enter a lion’s cage you’ll get eaten, unless you are very lucky. But there is nothing inevitable about women getting raped. Men do it consciously and deliberately. It doesn’t have to happen, should never happen, and if it does happen is entirely the fault of the rapists.

      Apologists for rapists are morally culpable and they too should be held accountable for their actions.

    • Gregg says:

      01:58pm | 01/01/13

      ” Sadly Tory appears to have misunderstood the issues. She seems to think risk minimization (dressing appropriately, exercising caution, not inviting sexual advances from the wrong people and sobriety) and blaming the victim are the same. They are not. ”
      I dunno wuc, I do not think Tory is saying that risk minimisation and blaming/shaming the victim are the same and actually says some people may attempt to disguise their blame/shame with reference to personal responsibility.

      ” In Australia many people try to disguise their shaming by cloaking it in terms of personal responsibility. They might say, for example, that for their own safety women – or vulnerable men - shouldn’t be out late, or drunk, or in sexy clothes. You can say that to your daughter, maybe. Because when it comes to someone near and dear to you you want to reduce any risks to their wellbeing, and there are increased risks of assaults by a stranger if alcohol is involved.

      But what about all those rapes that occur inside? By relatives, by friends, by colleagues?

      By saying women shouldn’t be out late, or drunk, or in sexy clothes, you may as well say; women shouldn’t be gadding about without a chastity belt; they shouldn’t be alone with their uncles or their fathers or the guys from school or the footy team. They shouldn’t have been on a date, or with people from work. “

      That’s a bit different

      In a utopian ideal world…....and as you say it does not exist and so it is prudent in all sort of activities to have some sense of risks and I do not think Tory is suggesting that a person should not.

      And yes, any crime, including that of rape is not always black and white and that is why we have justice systems to deal with crimes.

      ” according to culture and the context. Even extreme modesty can be provocative ie extreme religious dress such as a full Christian nun’s habit can be provocative if worn in Lakemba “
      You are really starting to mix issues here and talking of religious reaction and as for the comment that a nun would likely be spat on, that’s so sad on a number of fronts.
      1. that there is such a belief held by someone of muslims in general.
      2. if it is at all true, Sydney and Lakemba has a reallly huge problem on its hands for anyone of any religion should be free to go anywhere in Australia unmolested and not attacked because of their religion.

      Honour killings are certainly something else that are a huge problem in India and certainly something we can do without in Australia.

    • Ames says:

      01:59pm | 01/01/13

      Wakeupcall, you acknowledge that women are not responsible for being assaulted regardless of how they dress etc. But of course you then go on to tell women that they should be taking precautions to not be assaulted.
      Here’s a wake up call for you:
      Women shouldn’t have to.
      I’m not saying that we women don’t – we do. But we shouldn’t have to – why the heel should we take any more precautions than men, who don’t take many, if any (according to my husband)? Instead of trying to put the fear of God into females and implicating that if they don’t dress or act a certain way they may be assaulted, how about putting the responsibility of an assailant’s actions fairly and squarely on the assailant. Yes, you said that assault isn’t a woman’s fault, blah blah blah. But you seriously chucked that down the crapper and revealed you true hand with three words: “But women should”.

      How is a person supposed to tell who the “wrong people” are to invite sexual advances from? Given that most sexual assaults are committed by a person known to the victim (and presumably somebody in whom they have some level of trust), and that rapists and murderers don’t exactly introduce themselves as such? Do you really think that a rapist approaches a woman in a bar in a frightening, aggressive manner, tells her he’s a rapist and she just goes “well you seem like a nice bloke, want to come back to my place?” Give me a break. Most rapists who are strangers to their victims put a great deal of effort into appearing to be nice, normal guys.

      Saying that women should “judge each situation” is just another way of saying that we should be paranoid. And what is a “situation” exactly?

      And “be aware of dangers”? What the heck dangers are you talking about? When I leave my house I’m not exactly stepping into a war zone.

    • Theresa says:

      03:43pm | 01/01/13

      thankyou wakeupcall for saying it as you feel - I as a victim of rape do actually agree with some of what you say.  I was raped in my own home by someone I know so not the type of victim that people consider “normal”.  However I did put on my all in one shortie pj’s as it was a hot night and therefore Peter decided I was fair game as I looked hot and sexy.. I often wonder if I’d just chosen my ugliest pj’s if life would have been different….I went through years of mental problems and various issues thanks to one moment in my life and always first to defend a woman, however several years ago I started to think to myself that we as a women can choose to walk the streets in mini skirts and our boobs hanging out when drunk and tempt the type of men that we all know are out there, or we can take control and maybe cover up with a jacket when on way home or at least always be with friends whenever we can - the simple matter is these predators exist, you even know them and once called them a friend.  At least that was my story, I knew my rapist as did all my friends who trusted him as he was a good middle class educated young gentleman…
      I personally would like to cut certain parts of men’s bodies off for rape and never say it is a woman’s fault.  However we as educated, street smart women should always remember that we can try to avoid it happening by taking precautions.
      Rape will always be around, no amount of changing laws, increasing punishments etc. will ever stop that.  So let’s try and help ourselves.  My story is all too common and that’s a whole other issue that we cannot fathom and will also always exist - awareness is my only answer to try and reduce the numbers of rape.

    • Stained says:

      03:45pm | 01/01/13

      @ Ames: “And “be aware of dangers”? What the heck dangers are you talking about? When I leave my house I’m not exactly stepping into a war zone.”

      Got news for you Ames, this aint Utopia!  Everyone thought that Scandinavia was the dream place to live, paradise, but check out what that Anders loony did!  You need to wake up just a little, OK.

    • Jim Moriarty says:

      03:50pm | 01/01/13

      Here’s a @wakeupcall for you: do you think my three piece designer suit contributed to the five shitstains who beat the crap out me, and then gang raped me while I was walking to my car?

      Or are you going to tell me I shouldn’t have been working late (it was about 9pm)? I shouldn’t be slightly effeminate? I should get someone to walk me to my car?

      Rapists are less than human shitheads. Personal responsibility can only take you so far. If someone wants to rape you, they will.

      I am a man, BTW. Apparently it was a gay bashing, but I don’t know what they proving about hating gays by raping me.

    • DOB says:

      04:04pm | 01/01/13

      Ames, with all due respect I think you’ll find that the level of mayhem among men of a certain age as a result of them being drunk in public is - measured in deaths, maimings, injuries, and general pain and suffering - significantly worse than pretty much any other form of crimes in this country (which is not to minimise other crimes but simply to put a vague numerical measure on it for comparison). You say “why the hell should we take any more precautions than men, who don’t take many, if any (according to my husband)?’ - well, perhaps young men need to take more precautions too, rather than women descending to the same level. Perhaps you missed it but The Punch - in particular, Penbo - spent a significant part of 2012 urging that we make sure young men take more precautions on nights out in public. So its kind of disheartening to see that just when we’re starting to get sensible about the risks of young men being drunk in public places (particularly when alone) you seem to be suggesting that it would be cool if more young women could get drunk in public. Reality check: getting drunk in any place where you need to exercise your judgment and gauge the risks is a dangerous thing to do - always - and it doesnt matter whether youre male or female. So DONT DO IT.

    • ByStealth says:

      04:17pm | 01/01/13

      I agreed with much of what she was saying until this little gem:

      “In Australia many people try to disguise their shaming by cloaking it in terms of personal responsibility. “

      You are twisting their words into something outside of their intent. What these people are trying to do is give agency to people so they feel that they have some degree of control over their lives. Risk management is good sense, not victim blaming.

      To demonise risk management in the context of ANY crime is to tell people ‘You have no control over whether crime will happen to you, so you might as well not bother taking any measures to place yourself in less risky situations. Also you are an object with no agency.’

      For an understanding of why men and women generally view agency differently, googly ‘Hyper-agency’ and ‘Hypo-agency’. The short version is that men are considered ‘actors’ and 100% responsible for their actions AND all things that happen to them, while women are considered ‘objects’ and therefore never responsible for their actions or anything that happens to them.

      You can see there is good and bad sides to both of these traditional gender roles, and how they would shape how men and women would look at the world (case in point; personal responsibility for rape happening to them.)

      The sooner the expectations of the genders having these roles is removed, the better off everyone will be. Don’t even get me started on how these roles paint domestic violence (which is generally reciprocal) as being always men’s fault, regardless of instigation.

    • Helt says:

      09:39am | 01/01/13

      Is it such a terrible thing to point out that someone may not have done the safest thing and maybe others can learn from it. Die Hard with a Vengance is a good example. The bad guy made Bruce Willis walk through Harlem with a sign saying “I Hate N****s” Assault is never the victim’s fault. Assault is when you hit someone against their will so it can never, ever be their fault. However the bad guy knew that by making Bruce willis wear that sign in that situation he would be a much greater postition to be assaulted than if he was sitting at home or in a church or a large suburban mall in say Vaucluse.  It wasnt Bruce willis fault he got assaulted but he had done something that made his chances of being assaulted much greater and pointing that isnt victim blaming no matter how much the I am Woman hear me Roar set tries to claim it is. Its not a perfect world. I cant ask for all sharks to be culled because I swam from Bondi to Maroubra with a bleeding barramundi around my neck

      If warning people that putting yourself on a street corner at 3 am in Inglewood wearing a short skirt and tank top after having 14 jagermeisters is misogyniostic or victim blaming then I am but then what am I supposed to tell my daughters about personal safety?

    • Mel says:

      10:49am | 01/01/13

      er - are you comparing men to sharks? And my body to a bleeding barramundi???

      Too many West Coast Coolers for you last night Helt.

    • John says:

      10:50am | 01/01/13

      Is that you Tony?

    • v says:

      10:51am | 01/01/13

      Tell them that they are far more likely to be assaulted by someone they know and trust.  Tell them that women who veil themselves and act as the moral police for men can still get raped despite all their precautions, and told that their rapist was tempted by their eyes, their hands, their walk or the fact that they were out unescorted.  Tell them that any system of morality that reduces women to objects and men to slavering beasts is not going to solve the problem.  And tell your sons not to rape women.

    • Helt says:

      11:30am | 01/01/13

      No Mel Im not Im saying that sometimes you have to take responsibility for yourself and not expect everyone else in the world to be Prince Charming looking after the fairy Princess. There was a evil Stepmother in Snow White. How do we know she was evil? She sent he stepdaughter out into the forest at night all alone. Bad things happen in the forest. The Stepmother is confronted about get actions couldn’t claim she did nothing wrong because she expects Snow White should be able to stay all night out in the forest without harm coming to her. Funnily enough 100 years after Snow White was written women still think like the Evil Stepmother but Kings Cross is far more dangerous than any forest but women still think they live in a fantasy world where nothing bad happens except to other people. The Punch a little while ago had a series of articles about Heroes Walking Away because of the dangers of the Cross.  No one said that was victim blaming after Thomas Kelly was killed and the dangers of fighting on the cross were discussed rationally. I wonder why rape cannot be discussed rationally without immediate accusations of sexism misogyny & victim blaming raised

    • Helt says:

      12:03pm | 01/01/13

      So V that’s a nice response but I notice you still seem to think I can’t tell my daughters to look out for themselves and their safety is totally reliant on the actions of others

    • Philosopher says:

      01:01pm | 01/01/13

      tell them their dad is a tool(ie).

    • Carz says:

      10:02am | 01/01/13

      Well said Tory. Thank you.

    • Carollyn Cook says:

      10:11am | 01/01/13

      Heaven forbid the male should show some self control

    • Boiragi says:

      10:14am | 01/01/13

      Rape is sickness of mind of an individual, the hypocracy of the society. It does not matter how much provocative dress the girl wear, she should not be a victim of rape. Simple as that.

    • Iamnotavictim says:

      10:17am | 01/01/13

      Well victim blaming is all I got when I reported being raped by my ex partner (and the father of my daughter). The four policemen that I spoke with said it was my word against his. That we “obviously had consensual sex in the past” and “why did you let him inside?”. Btw I let him inside as he was meant to be visiting out 4 month old daughter. I was left bleeding from the anus (having never consented to anal sex ever before, with anyone) and my lounge room was littered with food and other objects that he felt he needed to shove inside of me. He even admitted to the indecent act in a text msg soon after the assault. Sadly from my experience it isn’t worth reporting a rape when you are not left half dead or where you know the perpetrator. But that’s not a helpful outcome for anyone reading this. It should be reported. You should be empowered. Just make sure you have someone strong, who you trust, by your side while making the report. It’s also important to remember than men are raped too. They are often the silent victims who victim blame themselves due to stigma.

    • RealistRaven says:

      10:21am | 01/01/13

      Rape has always been and always will be about control. The victim is not at fault for any reason. I took gender out of it as it works both ways.

    • iansand says:

      10:21am | 01/01/13

      wakeupcall & Helt - I suspect that it is you who don’t “get” it.  Men should modify their behaviour, and whatever it is in society that legitimises or rationalises that behaviour should change.  There should be no focus on the victim.  The focus should be entirely on the perpetrator and on what has happened to that person to make them believe that violence is legitimate.

    • James says:

      12:05pm | 01/01/13

      Lets get this straight, people who rape others are not men so please don’t class the massive majority of males who would never even think of raping someone else in the same boat as these rapists.

      These individuals are animals.

    • Dolly says:

      10:28am | 01/01/13

      Well said Wakeupcall. Thankyou

    • Alicia says:

      10:31am | 01/01/13

      Brilliant article; thank you for this.

    • Luigi says:

      10:43am | 01/01/13

      Rape seldom is a sex crime, it is a violence crime.

    • Gidget says:

      10:51am | 01/01/13

      Though I do agree with you Tory, Females must remember that some men are rapists waiting to happen.
      As females we have to wear the fact that some men can’t keep it in their pants and don’t understand, that, hey, no IS no.
      So, though I think I should be able to wear and go where I want and be unmolested, it doesn’t happen that way sometimes. So as is our want in life, we should really be careful what we wear, say and visit. Don’t necessarily agree with it, but that’s just a fact of life and could keep you safe.
      I have read on many occasions that rape is about power, not necessarily sex. Not sure about that analogy.

    • Rose says:

      10:53am | 01/01/13

      Unless you are a Forgotten Australian? That is Forgotten Australian and Lost innocents.

    • Tim says:

      10:58am | 01/01/13

      See,
      Tory and others like her make the mistake of assuming that Rape is a black and white issue. That what happened in India is the same as the girl who has a few too many drinks and has sex with the wrong man and regrets it.
      There is a whole grey spectrum in between.

      I’ve read that Facebook post Tory links to and nowhere does the girl say she said no or didn’t consent to sex. No wonder the comments have been harsh, its just as likely that she regretted cheating in her boyfriend instead of being raped.

      If someone goes bungee jumping and the rope breaks, the jumper is not at fault but I don’t think anyone would say they aren’t partially responsible for the outcome. It’s not victim blaming, its risk management.

    • Leah says:

      10:59am | 01/01/13

      “In Swaziland over Christmas the powers-that-be banned rape-provoking mini-skirts and crop tops. It’s not up to the men to control their urges, but up to the women not to tempt them. Classic uber-conservative logic.”

      Um, no. While I would not support an attempt to ban mini-skirts or crop-tops, I do NOT agree that banning them automatically means “It’s not up to the men to control their urges, but up to the women not to tempt them”.

      I am SO OVER people saying that when someone else suggests there are ways women can *help prevent* rape, that must mean she’s at fault if she does get raped. NO. NO. It’s called common sense. While Swaziland might be taking it a bit extreme I do agree with the basic principle. As a woman, there are places I would not go late at night alone because I know it increases my chances of being assaulted or raped. Does that mean it’s my fault if I do get raped? No. I have been a bit irresponsible in putting myself in that situation, but the decision to assault me still lies 100% with the person who does it. And there’s no difference between warning a woman not to go to certain dangerous places, and telling her not to wear certain provocative things in such places. “Don’t tell me what I can or can’t wear!” I hear people say. What about “Don’t tell me where I can or can’t go!”?

      I have no interest in telling a person they CAN’T wear something or they CAN’T go somewhere. But we are an irresponsible society if we don’t WARN people, women in particular, that there are things they can do to minimise the chances of falling victim to lesser members of society. Just like we tell children not to talk or take lollies from strangers, and just like we don’t let drunk friends go home with strangers, we should also warn women not to wear skimpy clothes late at night or walk alone in particular parts of our cities. It doesn’t mean the child is at fault if he gets kidnapped because he did speak to a stranger, or the friend is at fault if they get assaulted because they went home with a stranger, or the woman is at fault if she gets raped because she did wear a cleavage-bearing mini-dress while walking alone down that dark alley. Why is it ok to suggest women not walk by themselves late at night in certain areas but not ok to suggest they cover up as well? It’s just risk *minimisation*, and the idea that people who try to minimise risks are blaming the victim if she does get assaulted is a total joke.

    • NikRaf of Victoria says:

      11:03am | 01/01/13

      you lost any credibility when you call people names like

      ” douchebags”

      because it makes you sound just like the uneducated people you are trying to put down

    • ByStealth says:

      04:28pm | 01/01/13

      Nothing like throwing in a pre-emptive ad hominem to polarise the commentators.

      Its pretty obvious Tory deliberately stirs the pot to incite comments.

    • Johnny atheos says:

      11:03am | 01/01/13

      But how can we discuss this despicable issue without giving offence to numerous cultures and religions.  Multiculturalism, or its less fashionable name Cultural Relativism, has replaced Secular Society and now has made for us is a new, scared cow. This takes the form of non-criticism, non-judgment and that tolerance is enduring the detestable and tolerance as an unconditional appreciation of diversity. The concept of universal human rights can’t operate in this kind of relativistic construction. We no longer can say that Universal Human rights has primacy over culture or religion. For example, the notion that equals rights for Women is universal, is now conditional on culture and religion.  Hopefully most Australian’s would not agree with that notion.

      The current debate about universal human rights is continually and deliberately linked, as is a product of Western Cultural imperialism. This is a form of censorship and is helped, as non-criticism and non-judgment is now the mantra from elements of an overly small but highly influential part Australian intelligentsia, Liberals, Labor, Greens and religious fundamentalists of all persuasions.  This group is currently involved is a campaign to limit free speech. The Liberals help free up debate because free speech is their default position. But they seem not to show any convictions in supporting the values of the Secular Western Enlightenment.

    • wakeupcall says:

      02:20pm | 01/01/13

      Spot on Johnny. Spot on. If all cultures are equal and culture is behavior and law, which it is, then all behaviors and laws are equal. Law breaking is equal to law abiding, violent is equal to peaceful and sharia laws on killing apostates and blasphemers, stoning adulterers, whipping drinkers and gamblers, cutting off arms and legs on opposite sides and crucifiction for renegades, amputating thieves hands, beating women for disobedience, ie sharia hudud laws are equal to Australian law that proscribes and abhors such things. This is the danger of post modern left wing cultural relativism. When the Arab spring is complete and if these Islamist nations start to coordinate and attack, then we will have to struggle hard to defend the rights that Tory and her ilk so blithely give away in the name of faux sensitivity. And who will do most of the fighting, well the white working class that they make mockery of?

    • Leah says:

      11:04am | 01/01/13

      By the way - “By saying women shouldn’t be out late, or drunk, or in sexy clothes, you may as well say; women shouldn’t be gadding about without a chastity belt; they shouldn’t be alone with their uncles or their fathers or the guys from school or the footy team. They shouldn’t have been on a date, or with people from work.”

      That’s rubbish. It’s going to significantly interfere with a person’s life to avoid all scenarios of being alone with uncles/fathers/boys from school/on a date etc. It’s not going to significantly interfere with your life to make sure you walk in a group and cover up a bit in dodgy areas or around dodgy people.

    • C.Fairy says:

      11:08am | 01/01/13

      Fifty Ways Prevent Yourself from Being a Rapist:

      1. Do not think you have the right to rape a woman.

      2. Do not rape a woman. Do not rape a man.

      3. Learn what rape is.

      4. Rape is forcing someone to have sex with you when they do not want to.

      5. Most rapes are committed by men who know the women they are raping. If the woman you are forcing to have sex with you happens to be your girlfriend, your neighbor, your cousin, your sister, or your wife, it is still RAPE.

      6. When someone says no to you, that means you have no right to force yourself on them.

      7. When someone pushes you away, or otherwise inclinates, verbally or with physical movement that they do not want to have sex with you, and you force yourself on them, that is rape.

      8. If you see a woman in a parking lot, don’t rape her.

      9. If you see a woman walking alone at night, don’t rape her.

      10. If you see a woman in a short skirt, don’t rape her.

      11, If you see a woman with long hair, don’t rape her.

      12. If you see a woman walking down a dark street at 4 AM, naked, don’t rape her.

      13. If you see a woman who is not carrying pepper spray for self protection, does not know karate, does not have a gun, and is not even holding an umbrella to ward you off, still don’t rape her.

      14. If you see a woman who has a sign on her head that says “I Want Sex”, you don’t have the right to force sex upon her.

      15. If you’re at a party, and a girl is drunk, and she wants you to kiss her and touch her but then she wants you stop, STOP.

      16. If you’re on a date with someone and they want to go so far, but then stop, you STOP. If you don’t stop, it is called rape.

      17. Rape is a crime, whether you go to prison for it or not, whether it is reported or not, whether you’re convicted, or whether anyone believes the woman you rape, or whether you get a goddamn medal of honor for all the rapes you got away with committing, IT’S A CRIME and it’s a crime against humanity, which has more to do with your conscience and morals and the rights of women to live as human beings on this planet without having to be in fear their bodies will be violated, than it laws and prison sentences. If you are a rapist, you have violated a person’s right to simply live. News Flash - you do not have the right to do that. Neither does any other man or woman you know.

      18. Rape is about power. It is not about sex. Do something else with your misogyny than rape a woman. Try, say, reading a book. Or committing suicide to rid you from the planet so we will have one less rapist walking around.

      20. Men are the people who can stop rape. Not women. For proof of this fact, look at statistics on rape for a second. It happens every minute of every day, and it is usually not ever reported so statistics on it are always underestimates. Women have been trying to prevent themselves from being raped for a few centuries. IT HASN’T WORKED YET.

      (There are 30 more ways a man can stop himself from being a rapist.)

    • Mick says:

      01:06pm | 01/01/13

      Yes and there are probably 50 ways a woman can minimize the risk of being raped by some lunatic.
      It disgusts me how you feminists want to brand all men potential rapists or pedophiles..

    • Testfest says:

      01:24pm | 01/01/13

      Point 18 - I don’t think you can definitively claim that rape is about power and not about sex at all. If there wasn’t at least some sexual aspect to it, then the perpetrators sexual organs would not be involved in the crime at all.

      You missed number 19 by the way.

    • bec says:

      01:43pm | 01/01/13

      Mick, unfortunately it’s people who try to justify women getting raped who hate men and think very little of them.

      I generally have a high opinion of men and hold high expectations of them. I expect them to respect the boundaries of others, to practice active and respectful listening, and to not harm others. The large majority of them succeed with that.

      When we say that men can’t help themselves, what we say is that men are stupid, idiotic animals who cannot control themselves. If that were the case, then they should all be imprisoned. As they are not, then we ought expect them all to comply with the law and civic morality, and if not, to be punished fully.

    • Colin says:

      11:18am | 01/01/13

      Tory, you should have learned by now that it is wise to never say never.

    • bec says:

      11:18am | 01/01/13

      I was raped while wearing a full-length tracksuit, top and bottom, while sober. On numerous occasions I have had men attempt things, still while being very modestly dressed - people climbing into my car when I get into it at night, men attempting to trap me in ATM cubicles,  the works. I don’t own skirts or shorts that go above the knee, I don’t show cleavage, and I generally look extremely modest.

      My best friend in the world, on the other hand, seldom wears anything that could be counted as ‘modest’. Everything is short and tight. And yet nobody has even attempted anything remotely rapey on her.

      All of this talk about ‘personal responsibility’ and scanty clothing isn’t just offensive to me as a survivor of sexual assault: it’s insulting to me as an intelligent person and stickler to factual accuracy.  Saying that rape would come to a stop if women started dressing modestly is patently insulting to those of us who have been raped, regardless of clothing: women with disabilities who are twice as likely to be raped or sexually assaulted than non-disabled women; the elderly; the very young.

      For all the talk of ‘personal responsibility’ we put not nearly enough on the assailant. We don’t let a correctly-identified burglar off from a conviction just because the car/house was unlocked, or because the property was enticingly displayed, or because they didn’t know that the owners didn’t want their property trespassed upon. We similarly don’t allow dangerous dogs to remain alive after attacking a person. And I similarly find it bewildering that those who are the loudest voices calling for women to be ‘responsible’ are the ones who are most loudly trying to rationalise the behaviour of the cruel, the sociopathic and the socially unintelligent.

    • Ned says:

      11:24am | 01/01/13

      This goes both ways. When a woman gets a man drunk and takes advantage of him when he is unable to make his own decisions or give consent then she should be fully prosecuted for the rape she committed…

      ... said no one ever because there exists a double standard. Men can be victims too, it happens and is ignored. Anti rape campaigns should cover both genders.

    • Bear says:

      01:14pm | 01/01/13

      Never heard of that concept. Where are these women who get men drunk and ‘rape’ them? I’d like to meet them.

    • Philosopher says:

      01:39pm | 01/01/13

      stand in line, Bear. Where was this woman when I was single?

      Bec, excellent comments, although it’s a bit of a worry how many women have posted on the Punch that they have been raped.  I’m afraid they will go way over the heads of some of the dimwits on this thread.

    • Victoria says:

      11:28am | 01/01/13

      It’s not just men who blame women, but other women also.

    • Michael says:

      11:29am | 01/01/13

      Happy new Year! Tory.

      Crazy lady smile

    • Angry mother says:

      11:35am | 01/01/13

      Sadly my SON was a victim of rape! My son was walking a girl home( for her safety) once he got her home, he was invited to a party across the road from her house with her, where he then passed out. He was raped 3 times whilst people stood there and watched. I fought for justice for my son. I wanted people to know how degrading rape is. I did everything in my power to get the pertpertrator to be thrown behind bars. The worthless piece of space was looking at 42 years behind bars for the acts he did on my son. Do you know what he got? He recieved a 3 year good behavoiour bond. Woopdie Doo! Not one night in jail. Not one! My son was raped 3 times with an object and urinated on but he gets no justice.  The governments need to get their act together and make the laws stand out. Make the laws harsh. Make the people think before they act. Its too easy to commit a crime and not be given a decent punishment for it. To the Politicians… its time for action before the people take action into their own hands!

    • Sean says:

      11:57am | 01/01/13

      Wakeupcall, PeterH and Dolly - you’re the douche bags Tory wrote the store for. I know you like jumping on your little soapboxes with all the “facts” about that poor Indian girl, but the ARTICLE is about how blame gets shifted. That’s all. You 3 have probably been gagging for an arena to vent your generalistic opinions on the incident in India, but please, stick to what the article is about, rather than throwing rocks at Tory. It’s NEVER ok to rape, regardless of where they are, what they wear, how drunk they are etc. Harm minimization is a completely DIFFERENT topic for another day. Your comments skew the message and other idiots join in, missing the message. Next time, Tory should just get you to write the opinion piece, since you highjack it anyway. Douche.

    • Jane says:

      01:53pm | 01/01/13

      Yeah Sean.  Common sense at last.

    • Hartz says:

      12:04pm | 01/01/13

      Ah yes well…  Dads have been telling their daughters to dress modestly and not drink around a group of horny blokes for generations… Its a fact of life - reducing the likelihood of assault is a smart move in a world that doesn’t live up to the utopian ideals where women may drunkenly wander naked through the seediest part of town with no risk of trauma. And inviting people from all of these women hating nations to come to Australia certainly doesn’t help - or do you expect them to suddenly change when they get here… what world do you live in…??

    • austin 3:16 says:

      01:47pm | 01/01/13

      Wouldn’t it be much better if the same Dads were telling their sons what the word No means ?

    • Bianca says:

      12:10pm | 01/01/13

      Your preaching to the wrong audience. The Australian legal system should know better or most would expect that to be the case but one only needs to dig a little way into Australian legal history to find the unthinkable.
      Rare Successful cases overturned on appeal irrefutable evidence removed by defense and a supportive judicial system.
      Civil libertarians mixed with the great majority of labor appointed judges and magistrates from a defense back ground and you have more than an unsafe legal system.
      We have a legal system that not only let’s down the victim but our whole society.
      Every minute of every day a new innocent and unsuspecting family becomes a victim of our legal system and at the top of that list is the victim of rape undoubtedly the most difficult to prosecute.

    • Christine says:

      12:30pm | 01/01/13

      No one asks to be raped and there should be no blame attributed to the victim. There should be no minimisation of guilt. Every effort should be made in society to broadcast/educate that rape is a crime, however, it will be a long long road before we reach etopia on this issue.  If ever.

      We do not live in an ideal world and I do not think placing all focus on the despicable acts of rapists is the wisest approach or message to be sending to girls. It may encourage the more naive toengageto engage in risky behaviour.

      No one should steal my car because I foolishly left the keys in the ignition. No one should shoot school children because they have an assault weapon. No one should rape another regardless of their behaviour. The reality is that there are disturbed and hateful people in our society who for various reasons or mental states seriously injure others because they choose to do so and with no thought for the consequences. Sadly, alcohol also plays a very large part in our society and infused brains easily lose self control.

      It is alway wiser to try to minimise risk. I dare to suggest while girls have the right to dress or drink how they please, it is also risky to be seen by the real misogynists in the world in such a state because they think she is’ asking for it’ for whatever twisted reasons they may have.

      Is it not also wise to educate girls to be more discreet in how they dress, not to drink to such an intoxicated state that they leave themselves open to being a victim. Is it not wiser to warn girls to stay with the group rather than drink alone with strangers. Is it not wiser to say don’t walk home alone at night, intoxicated or not?  What is wrong with also emphasing cautions on how to minimise risk. 

      I believe it is irresponsible for journalists or anyone to be indirectly sending messages to girls that because it is never their fault, they can dress and drink and do what they like. We need to exercise caution in how that message is communicated to our youth as misinterpretation can lead to serious injury with lifelong consequences.  Although we have rights, they will not protect us all the time.

    • iansand says:

      01:57pm | 01/01/13

      Is it wise to provide excuses and justifications to the douchebags?

    • Hank says:

      03:17pm | 01/01/13

      Ian.  Isn’t that the role of a lawyer?

    • Lydia says:

      12:30pm | 01/01/13

      To quote from the 2011 slutwalk sign quoted in the article: “...my shorts (were) too short. I was asking for it.”
      My shorts were short, my top was short and fitted, and I was alone and polite to my attacker when he approached me. Asking for it? I was eight years old.
      Rape is never the victim’s fault, because despite any temptation the choice to rape lies with the rapist. Anyone who thinks otherwise is confusing rape with something else; something to which the other party is able to consent. The definition of rape removes the choice of consent, and any blame placed on a victim because of their choice (whether or not that choice was an intelligent one), makes you part of a culture which means victims are scared to report assaults and rapists are free to continue. Yes, it is just that black and white, despite age, despite dress, despite culture. Just. That. Simple.

    • Nick says:

      01:29pm | 01/01/13

      @Tory, your comment   ” So this is for you douchebags in the latter group. “,
      reeks of Misandry..  you do know what a douche bag is don’t you Tory..?
      Just in case.. its a bag for holding the fluid used in douching ,or vaginal irrigation..
      Not sure why you need to use that type of language. I am sure there are many other words you could of used but I guess this gutter language which is commonly used by this wonderful Labor government is rubbing off on its disciples..
      Oh and another thing ..not all men are rapists and pedophiles..
      but some are.. so please take care.. 
      Please lets see you give free speech a go today..

    • bec says:

      01:51pm | 01/01/13

      I would say that “douchebag” is a perfectly appropriate insult. Douching was heavily pushed by the dim-witted and uninformed as a way of ‘cleaning’ female body parts that were already perfectly fine, and which often caused more health problems than they were supposed to cure.

      Just like the douchebags of yore, people who profess to act in our best interests while promoting information that is non-sensical and plain incorrect are totally worthless and deserving of derision. It is remarkably straightforward. It isn’t a form of misandry: it is vital, necessary mocking of quackery and nonsense.

    • perplexed says:

      02:34pm | 01/01/13

      and out of this article on rape, the only thing you got out of it was to nitpick on a word used and whilst there have a dig at the labor government.  Nice…

    • Nick says:

      02:53pm | 01/01/13

      why is it bec that you feel the need to insult people.?
      Does it make you feel better about yourself?

    • bec says:

      03:24pm | 01/01/13

      Oh, clutch your pearls more firmly, Nick. Why is it that we constantly have to hold the hands of the greedy, selfish and antisocial by not calling them for what they are?

      Why are you so invested in protecting the dignity of those who hurt others?

    • Louise says:

      01:37pm | 01/01/13

      As a survivor of rape (several times sad to say) clothes had nothing to do with it.  Whatsoever.  In fact being a bit ‘out there’ is probably a better protection.  I hate the bit when they ask why didn’t you fight?  Personally how about the girl was busy SURVIVING the experience.

    • Yon Toad says:

      01:43pm | 01/01/13

      Walk through Lakemba dressed as a nun at your peril. Really?  Maybe the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence could give this a shot and report back.

    • Health and Insurance Consultant says:

      02:02pm | 01/01/13

      Rape of anyone (male, female or otherwise) is wrong.

      The victim is never to blame.

      Risk minimisation? Definition, “a risk management system is a set of vigilance activities
      and interventions designed to identify, characterise, prevent or
      minimise risks relating to a defined activity including the
      assessment of the effectiveness of those interventions.”

      The ‘defined activity’ MUST be clearly scoped, ethical, legal, planned and consenting.

      Anyone who suggests that an individual may engage in risk minimisation against rape(!!!) clearly has an absolute knowledge deficit on what risk management actually is.

      Rape is wrong, it is non-consensual, it is violent.

      The victim is not now, nor ever will be to blame.

    • ByStealth says:

      04:40pm | 01/01/13

      As a security consultant, my definition of risk minimisation and risk management are different to yours. We adopt and apply the framework of ISO31000 to activites that are NOT clearly scoped, ethical, legal, planned and consenting.

      In otherwords we appy it to crimes; including rape. Safeguards can and are put in place.

      You are making an argument by definition. Most people don’t define the words in the exact same way that you do.

    • Mel says:

      02:04pm | 01/01/13

      Tory.
      Did you make up all the comments on this article just to prove your article?

      The only reason I ask is - the article is all about how not to blame the victim of rape - yet most of these comments are firmly directed at the victim. What they wear, what they drink, where they go. How people are like bits of fish, or cars, or houses. How if girls just respected themselves more they would be safer.

      Oh the irony!

    • Rwr says:

      02:27pm | 01/01/13

      Rape is an act of violence, not sex. If people can get their heads around that they are closer to understanding that clothing does not matter. If you fuel the belief by stating “it’s the victims fault” you are giving the rapist their justification for the crime. A “normal” person does simply not loose control of their sexual urges and attack another, these are seriously sick minded people and it takes a lot more than a short skirt to spur them on.
      Good article.

    • perplexed says:

      02:31pm | 01/01/13

      wow, after reading all the comments it leaves me bewildered and saddened that there are still so many people that blame the victim.  If someone punches you in the head and then kicks you to the ground and renders you unconscious because say you were drunk and walking home alone, does that mean that it was your fault?....same thing.  Rape is not sex, it’s assault.

    • Nick says:

      02:51pm | 01/01/13

      after reading your comment it perplexes me that you choose to read into these comments as blaming the victim.No one here is blaming the victim..what they are saying is ..try and take care of yourself with the knowledge that there are lunatics out there..
      Don’t you agree???

    • Michael says:

      04:08pm | 01/01/13

      Nick, just for example…If a person saw you somewhere and because of the way you looked or dressed or similar they bashed you, they would be wrong for doing it, but you would accept that you shouldn’t look and dress the way you do, or go to the places you go because of it….right?

      How bout if they raped YOU? still partly your fault?

    • Tanya says:

      02:46pm | 01/01/13

      Sadly, it’s all one way. Rape against women is harshly dealth with, as it should be, but women who rape men, or worse, young boys typically get light or no incarceration. Fairs fair. Rape, regardless of age, race or gender should be treated as equally heinous!

    • Oracle says:

      02:47pm | 01/01/13

      I was sexually harassed by a hatchback full of homosexuals stopped at traffic lights whilst I was jogging at night shirtless. Should I be able to jog at night shirtless and not being harassed? Sure, but that isn’t how the real world works and I now wear a shirt at all times. For the record cars with girls will also beep their horns. It has got to stop.

    • Paul M says:

      02:49pm | 01/01/13

      Peddling fear - look out ladies! Teh raypists are everywhere! The truth? Rape is an uncommon crime.

    • Richard says:

      03:05pm | 01/01/13

      I would agree with this article Tory, everything you said, with the proviso that I don’t always believe that “rape” is rape, i.e., I only believe a sexual encounter between two or more people qualifies as rape if violence or the threat of violence was used as coercion.

      For example, what Julian Assange is accused of in Sweden is not what I would call “rape”, and to call it so diminishes the true horror and evil of real rape such as suffered by that poor Indian woman.

    • bec says:

      03:31pm | 01/01/13

      Hey, Todd Akin, didn’t you lose your seat in the election?

    • Richard says:

      04:52pm | 01/01/13

      Umm… no? I’m not Todd Akin. Wasn’t he the guy that said that women can’t get pregnant from rape or something? Yeah, well… I totally disagree with him. I believe that, not only is it possible for a woman to get pregnant from rape, its actually more likely.

      In fact scholars say that rape played an integral role in gene diversification for pre-historic hominids. Apparently rape and the abduction of women in prehistoric hominid society was highly common, and indeed necessary from an evolutionary perspective to prevent too much in-breeding.

      This is not a condonement of rape in the modern day and age, however. I certainly think its evil for some men to violate a woman’s body against her will. It’s just, I think there is a grey area where some people would think a certain activity is rape, but I wouldn’t.

    • Karen says:

      03:32pm | 01/01/13

      When I was 19 I was wearing a pair of shorts and a tank top . long story short… Going to court as man ended up following me in his ute ( I was walking with my 6 month old niece on pram) he tried to drag me into his car , but…. He came to his senses as my police documents said, but I was cross examined and told very bluntly by his lawyer that I must of been some slut dressed the way I was!  Here I was walking into shopping centre and man who walks past me and said .. Nice arse, gets in his car and waits for me to leave shops to follow me and its my fault ??? For what I’m wearing?? typical man’s sleazy thought . Creeps!!

    • Stained says:

      03:33pm | 01/01/13

      As a parent, would any of you commentators including Tory, watch their young daughter walk out the door wearing a mini dress and skimpy revealing top,  head off to Kings Cross or dare I say to a night spot in Lakemba?
      After all our bleating about its not their fault (me too) it’s all washing pretty thin aint it.
      Sure men who rape are sick bastards, after all it aint sex, its about humiliation, violence and power; whip the cowards every day during their 10 year sentence!

    • Logic and Reason says:

      03:39pm | 01/01/13

      This issue is always clouded by emotion and rarely discussed in a calm manner using logic and reason. If we are to look at the issue honestly and fairly then it will require us to suspend emotion to a certain degree.

      The problem with Feminist views on rape, as can be demonstrated in the writings of this article’s author, is that they ignore the context of the event. The actions or lack of insight of the victim is a taboo aspect of the story. The desire of the perpetrator to ‘dominate’ their victim becomes the central focus and the context as a whole is overlooked.

      Why is it that when one examines a murder, a theft or an assault the context is always taken into account, but this seems to be a big “no-no” when it comes to rape? Why is it that if one dares to question the circumstances leading up to the event, they are apparently blaming the victim or absolving the perpetrator of responsibility? It makes no sense.

      The fact of the matter is that in the exceedingly vast majority of cases, rape comes down to opportunism. Limit the opportunity, limit the number of rapes that are committed. There are PRACTICAL precautions that women can take to reduce the chance of being raped and these precautions should be encouraged.

      We do not live in an ideal world where everybody has the best interests of others in their hearts. We do not live in a world where everyone has the moral fortitude not to take advantage of another person when they are drunk or high.

    • SimpleT says:

      04:12pm | 01/01/13

      This is a little off key but worth sharing.

      I have a social circle that features virtually no Australians. All the men I know are from OS. There’s about 16 of us.

      All have been in Australia for five years or less. We all live in Sydney.

      All of us have dated at least one Australian women who claimed to have been raped.

      All of the women have the same story about how they were a) young, b) it was a popular member of their social circle c) they said nothing about it because they were scared of the consequences. d) they are only telling us as we are from OS and not connected to their group.

      If 16 men from OS can come to one city and all independently meet at least one girl who has been raped (I’ve dated three). Australia must have the most astonishing issue with sexual violence or Australian women like making up stories to gain sympathy from OS males.

      Who knows, but it’s really, really strange and has been a talking point amongst my mates for years. It’s got to the point where we now ask each other if one of us meets an Aussie women “Please tell me this one hasn’t been raped.”

    • averil says:

      05:00pm | 01/01/13

      Which O/s country do you come from? Why would any woman disclose these details to someone they meet casually- ?  Many of the refugee women come her to escape rape by any relative or friend of relative that chooses to rape them; so to me this is not very unusual. If men learn that the letter “R” stands for respect, and the letter “S” stands for sex, the letter R should come first in their minds. What a totally useless bunch you and your mates are.  “please tell me that this one has not been raped”  that sentence shows your character perfectly !!!The probably tell you that story to get rid of you!!! Are you going back to whence you came soon???

    • Chris says:

      04:18pm | 01/01/13

      I think Tory’s article is really pressing at a black and white issue here. Rape is a serious assault and the rapist is ALWAYS to blame - never mind the circumstances. The article is cemented on who is at fault. Minimising the risks of being raped is clearly important and is something that people should be aware of. However, it is not really central to this article. There are no issues being confused - The article is basically an affirmation that the victim is never at fault.

    • VoiceOfIndia says:

      04:24pm | 01/01/13

      The GangRAPE happened because of the “gross negligence” of the Congress Party, which is in power and is *unfortunately* a collection of Rascals, headed by an unscrupulous Italian woman. Remove the Congress and this power-hungry woman and India will see rapes only in Bollywood.

    • Jamie says:

      04:32pm | 01/01/13

      There is no right or wrong answer here.  Generally most people’s opinions are all somewhat correct.  Women need to reduce their risk by their attitude, what they wear and do, and men need to be a ‘man’ and not do bad such horrendous things like this.

      In this instance I would not deem these blokes men, what they did is 100% In humane.  It’s one thing rape, it’s another thing what they did.

      Rape is a bad subject and women sometimes have sex and afterwards regret if and they may think of that as rape too. 

      I dunno. These blokes tho, whatever justice decides is what happens.  It’s a tragedy full stop.

      Personally to be fair, why kill them?  Why not do the same thing to them and see if they can survived a couple of big men doing the same thing to them?  As to set an example

    • Damian says:

      04:49pm | 01/01/13

      Bec and Louise make an important point: all these douchebag-esque comments trying to get blame for the victim back under some rubric of common sense are just creating excuses.  Rape is wrong.  Full stop.

 

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The Punch is moving house

The Punch is moving house

Good morning Punchers. After four years of excellent fun and great conversation, this is the final post…

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

I have had some close calls, one that involved what looked to me like an AK47 pointed my way, followed…

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

In a world in which there are still people who subscribe to the vile notion that certain victims of sexual…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: Hasbro, go straight to gaol, do not pass go

Tim says:

They should update other things in the game too. Instead of a get out of jail free card, they should have a Dodgy Lawyer card that not only gets you out of jail straight away but also gives you a fat payout in compensation for daring to arrest you in the first place. Instead of getting a hotel when you… [read more]

From: A guide to summer festivals especially if you wouldn’t go

Kel says:

If you want a festival for older people or for families alike, get amongst the respectable punters at Bluesfest. A truly amazing festival experience to be had of ALL AGES. And all the young "festivalgoers" usually write themselves off on the first night, only to never hear from them again the rest of… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

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