Should women walk away from the word ‘slut’?

acotrel says:

07:38am | 27/05/11

@Erick I believe women have a right to whinge about this. Women who expose their legs and arms in some muslim countries are looked upon as ‘sluts’.  Where does this stuff start and finish?  A short time ago the men of our country got all randy at the sight of a pretty ankle.  Personally I don’t care if women go around naked.  It’d probably be psychologically healthier if men saw them in the buff more often!

Carz says:

08:19am | 27/05/11

I dislike the word slut intensely. Whatever its origins it has come to mean a sexually permissive woman. Funnily enough there is no similar, gender specific, term for men.

I do see good things coming out of the slut walks. Firstly it helps smash the myth that women are raped because of what they were wearing.The truth is, of course, that has nothing to do with it. But as long as that myth remains in our culture women who are sexually assaulted will be judged and questioned regarding their clothing. It also combats the stereotype that women who are sexually active, and who may have had more than one partner, are ‘bad’ and should be labelled as such, yet men are still expected, even encouraged, to ‘sow their wild oats’. Anything that fights myths about rape and gendered stereotypes can’t be all bad.

I think that part of the problem is that people are all too willing to look for a reason as to why women are sexually assaulted as a way of protecting themselves. If they can believe that the victim was at least part of the cause they can feel safer within themselves because “I would never do that so it won’t happen to me.” It is very confronting to accept the reality that rape can happen to anybody and that someone you know, possibly even love, can be the perpetrator.

Carz says:

08:23am | 27/05/11

Please Punch, give us an article about violence against men. Maybe then Erick can stop turning articles about violence against women into proof that the whole world doesn’t care about men.

Warren says:

08:45am | 27/05/11

You conveniently ignore the fact that it is men who commit the vast majority of this violence not women.

KH says:

09:05am | 27/05/11

Carz - they could produce such an article.  The problem is the perpetrators are other men, so it still wouldn’t suit Ericks agenda, and he would still be here bitching and moaning about poor downtrodden men.

BJ says:

09:06am | 27/05/11

Where’s your proof or statistics for the following statement Erick? ‘the victims of the majority of violent crime and discrimination in this sexist society - men’.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

09:07am | 27/05/11

@ Warren - What a load.  How many men do you think are willing to report that a woman attacked them?

Out of all the couple fights ive seen its always the woman attacking the man. Courier mail last friday - women assaulting bouncers on the rise.

I have only once seen a man attack a woman, she had thrown her drink at him, he threw his back.

OchreBunyip says:

09:12am | 27/05/11

@Warren - CRIMINAL men commit these crimes, not everyday, law abiding men. Additionally, CRIMINAL women committing sexual assault and rape of men and boys is still painted by the media as a lesser crime. Finally, false allegations need to have harsh penalties and the attribution of a false allegation made legally definable and not based only upon the word of the accuser. Accusers are not victims until it is proven an offense actually occurred.

Erick says:

09:18am | 27/05/11

@Carz - There are shaming words for men which don’t apply to women - “Creep”, “Arsehole”, “Douchebag” and the like. It’s an example of the hypocrisy of feminism that you only recognise the gender-specific words used against women, when there are so many more aimed at men.

@Warren - I don’t mention it because it’s irrelevant. The topic is victims of violence, not perpetrators. Do you think that male victims somehow don’t count if the aggressor is male?

acotrel says:

09:33am | 27/05/11

@Carz
’ Funnily enough there is no similar, gender specific, term for men.’

Yes there is, it’s ‘slut’ - I’m one, and I’m also a ‘kitchen bitch’, as my wife often tells me.

Direct says:

09:36am | 27/05/11

So Warren, the fact that some men are victims of violence at hands of other men means we shouldn’t do something about violence against males?  Is this why domestic violence is ignored within lesbian relationships?

CABAL says:

10:00am | 27/05/11

@carz

Why does there have to be a term for men, god isn’t one enough for you or do you hate the world so much you have to have a label for everyone and everything you don’t like.

sigh the amount of hate and fear in this world sicken me.

Carz says:

10:06am | 27/05/11

Way to be taken out of context.

@Erick, and none of the words you used are specifically aimed at men perceived to be sexually permissive. But hey, if we are looking at gender specific words that are derogatory I can go for that. I know of plenty that are used against women and some used against men.

      acotrel says:

      08:33am | 27/05/11

      @Carz
      ’ Funnily enough there is no similar, gender specific, term for men.’

      Yes there is, it’s ‘slut’ - I’m one, and I’m also a ‘kitchen bitch’, as my wife often tells me.

@acotrel I am sorry your wife speaks to you in this way. It is disrespectful. However if you were my husband and were being “sexually permissive”, as per the context of my comment, I would probably have a few choice names for you too.

Warren says:

10:10am | 27/05/11

@Erick that fact that you consider women’s complaints about male violence to be “whinging” tells me all I need to know about were you are coming from. Separating the issue of perpetrators of violence from their victims as if they were not part of the same topic demonstrates the paucity of your argument.

@Geoff. Youv’e seen two fights in your whole life? I live in Kings Cross. I see fights every weekend. They are invariably amongst men.

@Direct.  I have no idea what you just wrote.

Carz says:

10:22am | 27/05/11

@CABAL, my point is that the term slut is used to shame women for being sexually permissive. It is just one of many words that are. However there are no words used to shame men for being sexually permissive. I don’t want another word, I want to see the ones currently used gone.

Tim says:

10:43am | 27/05/11

Carz,
women control the sexual marketplace.
They decide which men have sex and how much sex they have. Therefore when a man has lots of sex with multiple women, it means he is worth more on the sexual marketplace because he has lots of women willing to have sex with him.
The opposite applies to women because willing men are everywhere.
Supply and demand.

And if you really don’t like the word slut then maybe you should direct your anger at the people who use it the most - other women.

CJ Morgan says:

10:44am | 27/05/11

Given Erick’s evident propensity to pick fights, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he experiences violence on occasions.  Like a mossie intruding on a picnic, he insists on buzzing around people’s faces until they get sufficiently annoyed to swat him.

Mind you, I bet he wouldn’t say boo to a goose IRL.

As for St Melinda:

“I’ve been trying to understand the meaning of the slut walks before going into print with my views”

I would have thought that would be standard practice for a writer.  Mind you, its corollary - that MTR sometimes goes into print without understanding what she’s writing about - might explain a lot.

Snake says:

11:42am | 27/05/11

I hope the women marching in these silly events realise that they are just drawing MORE attention from the sorts of people that commit these sorts of attacks anyway.

Furthermore, why would you chose a word like Slut? For so long females have been complaining that males objectify them as sexual objects, now they are doing it themselves. Don’t ask to be appreciated for your personality or for your intelligence if you are going to reduce yourself to a sexual object.

To the idiots complaining that there is no equivalent term for men… There is none because men are very sexually active at an evolutionary level. It is a mans instinct to become worthy of female attention so that he can eventually mate with her. The more females he mates with, the more he increases his chance of survival and of furthering his genetic material. Obviously more successful males attract more attention and therefore get more. The same is not true for a female. Once a female is impregnated she cannot put another bun in the oven for 9 months. A male can impregnate as many women as he is capable of bedding in that time. So you see, being a slut, on evolutionary terms puts you in an unstable situation. You don’t know which mans child you are bearing because you effectively had them all. At the same time none of them are willing to own up to it because they all know you are easy.

Do yourselves a favor ladies. Stop trying to be men. You are not men. We are not the same. Be the best female you can be, but do not try to be a man. Equality is a myth. We are not equal and we never have been. The sooner you learn that, the sooner you will find your place in the world.

Grant says:

11:44am | 27/05/11

Unfortunately when we have people like KH who loves nothing more than running down men in her little pink car… We won’t ever have equal rights, mate. Women’s rights have by far overtaken men by at least a good decade. We will now - no matter what - always be screwed when it comes to things like the law, the family court system and even getting jobs. Women are more wanted by employers than men because they think it gets customers into their business. For generations now, if a man doesn’t get his own way, he is told to sit down and shut up… And usually, in case of risking further humiliation, he will just do that. But women… oh, when women don’t get their own way they stomp their feet and bitch and scream and moan and call everyone else around them with a penis a sexist pig for not handing over what they wanted. That, people, is the difference between the 21st century woman and the 21st century man. But, if we ever try to change it so it’s fair for men and women… Women again will stomp and whinge and moan because they won’t think it’s fair that a man should get as much as a woman. That’s now how the world works, and it won’t be changed anytime soon. Women will have to lose their selfish tendencies for that to happen - but having that programmed into their personalities would make the task of giving men any rights a very difficult one. For some reason women seem to think that if they take it out on us for the way our great great great great great grandfather treated our great great great great great grandmother, that everything is fair again. Women seem to think that men these days deserve to be punished for wrongdoings they never did… And that weren’t even done to the modern woman.

Tubesteak says:

11:59am | 27/05/11

Carz
“Slut” is not just about sexual permissiveness. There is much more loaded into that term than just promiscuity. There is concepts such as (lack of) class, (lack of) dignity, (lack of) self-respect and using your sexuality to gain favours (whether it be free drinks, free meals, a house, attention, social inclusion or any other material possession).

It’s like a man that uses physical dominance to get what he wants. If he uses it as a threat then in NSW it would be classed as common assault under the Crimes Act. This behaviour from a man is frowned upon by society and prohibited. It stems from his gender. The shaming around the word “slut” is similar but only socially conditioned and not legally condoned.

Erick says:

12:08pm | 27/05/11

@Carz - Men and women have different roles in the sexual marketplace - and so there are different ways of shaming. Women are shamed for having too much sex, while men are shamed for having too little. The male equivalents of “slut” are words like “creep” and “loser”.

Your attempt to claim the English language is biased against men fails.

michelle says:

12:52pm | 27/05/11

99% of the perpetrators of sexual violence incidents experienced in the 12 months prior to the survey were men

Both men and women most often experience violence from male perpetrators

Only 15% of women who identified an incident of sexual assault in the 12 months prior to the survey reported to police

Only 1 in 7 women (14%) who experienced violence from an intimate partner, and just over 1 in 6 women who experienced violence from someone else (non-partner), indicated that they had reported the most recent incident to police (16%).

Since the age of 15, 32.5% of women have experienced inappropriate comments about their body or sex life, compared to 11.7% of men. 25.1% of women experienced unwanted sexual touching compared to 9.9% of men.

Over half of the women surveyed (57%) had experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence over their lifetime. (2002-2003)

http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/statistics.html

Where on earth did you get your statistics?????? your not completely wrong men are more at risk for violence from strangers, murder, attempted murder, black mail and robbery BUT its more likely to be done to you by another MALE!

Do you have any idea how low Australia conviction rate is here’s some from South Australia:

Estimated number of rapes = 1815
(this figure is based on 20% reporting rate)

Number of rapes reported to police (SAPOL) = 363

Number charged = 35 (9.6%)

Number convicted from rapes reported to police = 6 (1.5%)

(Office of ‘Crime Statistics 2003a & 2003b).

And you can not believe 98.5% are lying and only 1.5% were actually raped?

false rape claims is horrible but so is the fact that CONVICTED SERIAL RAPIST AND PEDOPHILES HAVE THEIR NAMES PROTECTED!!!! Both should be outed.

As for false rape claims equal to actual rapes? well only a small percentage of cases (2.1 percent) were designated by police as false in Victoria.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=243182

There is a reason you can’t give references… because most of it is in your head. (like I said you are right about males being at higher risk of crime other then sexual assault, rape and kidnapping but it will be done in most cases by ANOTHER MALE)

Erick says:

01:53pm | 27/05/11

@Michelle - Government departments tend to provide politically manipulated figures. They are staffed mainly by feminists, and beholden to the feminist lobby - so it is not surprising that the distorted numbers provided by politically appointed bodies don’t reflect reality.

In particular, up to half of all reports of rape are false. This is reflected in the low conviction rate of accused rapists - many of them are simply the victims of malicious lies.

Additionally, feminists such as yourself like to quote fanciful figures of “unreported rapes”, which supposedly outnumber actual rape complaints by a large margin. In reality, unreported rapes can’t be measured, because they are unreported. So these feminist statistics are simply made up; they are false.

Finally, every serious study of domestic violence has shown that women are equally likely to be violent as men. The “epidemic of violence against women” is a sexist myth.

Comments like yours are the reason we need more education about the realities of violence in the community, since ignorance serves to harm the innocent.

Kika says:

02:05pm | 27/05/11

Give it up Erick. Men are 3/4 of the violent crime statistics because it’s men attacking men. Not women attacking men. Stop trying to always turn these things into an anti feminist thing when it’s not. This is an anti idiot thing. Anyone who wants to be called a slut clearly is an idiot.

Kika says:

02:21pm | 27/05/11

Also Erick, your attempt at showing how language is used to denigrate men to morons falls short. How about the use of genitalia terms? Male = Funny. Female = Disgusting and Gross. D**head - Idiot. C**head = Idiot. C&&T = Vile person. P***y= Weak pathetic loser.

Matthew says:

02:32pm | 27/05/11

CONVICTED SERIAL RAPIST AND PEDOPHILES HAVE THEIR NAMES PROTECTED!!!! Both should be outed.

No.  This puts them in real danger (not just rape but murder and significant amounts of violence) and makes unnecessarily difficult for them EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE SERVED TIME IN JAIL AS REQUIRED.

Don’t forget, there is a significant amount of 18 year old males that had sex with their 15 year old girlfriends but broke the law and got caught.  Should they have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives as well?

I notice you’re not campaigning for murders, armed robbers, manslaughters etc to have their names unprotected, why should rapists/paedophiles be any different?

Tim says:

02:39pm | 27/05/11

Kika,
that is possibly the stupidest thing i’ve ever read.

C**k or D**k is funny now?
I would think that C**K, D**k and C**t all mean the same thing. They are all F**kheads, K**bs, Id**ts, W**kers.
And surely a P***y is just a c*ward, and not a weak pathetic pers*n.
For F**ks Sake w*man.
***@####@##@!!!!!!!!@##$$$#@!!

Cloud Strife says:

02:52pm | 27/05/11

Get a new drum to bang on, Erick. Or get off your behind and do something, like these women have, instead of complaining on the internet.

AAAdam says:

03:15pm | 27/05/11

@ Carz - “I dislike the word slut intensely. Whatever its origins it has come to mean a sexually permissive woman. Funnily enough there is no similar, gender specific, term for men”.

So I take it you’ve never heard a male called a “player” before? I’ve often heard women gossiping and say “Stay away from that guy. He is such a player!”. In the context I’ve heard it, the word “player” is often used in exactly the same manner as a male would use the word “slut” when referring to a promiscuous woman. Let’s be honest with ourselves, “slut” is primarily used to describe promiscuous women and “player” is primarily used to describe promiscuous men. Your charge of “there is no similar, gender specific, term for men” is baseless.

Angel says:

03:28pm | 27/05/11

Wow Erick, I don’t think I’ve ever come across anybody as paranoid as you. The feminists are out to get you? I think you need some help, not to mention - a hobby.

Meg says:

03:30pm | 27/05/11

what is off track in this whole debate, is the notion that rape has something to do with sexuailty. Rape involves using sex as a weapon. It is violence done to and by sexual parts of our bodies, but it is NOT sex. It is about power, not pleasure. I understand the slutwalk is trying to dispel the misconception that free sexual expression attracts or is an excuse for violence. But I think it’s effect is going to be the opposite. What people need to understand, is that it is never ok to use force to get someone to comply with your will. That goes regardless of whether the goal is sexual grafification (rape), power in the workplace/school (bullying), or control over children’s behaviour (emotional and physical abuse of children). I don’t see how parading around saying you’re proud to be a ‘slut’, helps people to understand that violence is not ok.

Erick says:

03:59pm | 27/05/11

Indeed, Meg.

Yet when women use sex as a weapon, it is excused - or even encouraged - in our anti-male society.

Andrew says:

03:59pm | 27/05/11

@Carz, there is a term is describe men - They’re called “Manwhores” and males love it.

Sam says:

04:17pm | 27/05/11

@Erick you said
‘Just as rape is a risk for women, men face an equal risk from false allegations of rape - which can be just as damaging as the real thing, and occur just as often.’

‘and occur just as often.’
Really Erick really?
Do you have any stats to prove this. As you say in your reply to michelle that govt stats can’t be trusted as

’ They are staffed mainly by feminists, and beholden to the feminist lobby - so it is not surprising that the distorted numbers provided by politically appointed bodies don’t reflect reality.’

I would like to know where you get your stats from to make the statment that false allegations of rape occur just as often.
Do you have a source that is not beholden to the feminist lobby?

Cloud Strife says:

04:49pm | 27/05/11

@Sam

Any stats that back up Erick’s claims are completely non-biased and legit.

Any that disgaree with Erick’s claims are feminist tools of misinformation.

One of his sources is a blogspot blog, which in Erick’s world is more reliable than government data on a government website.

Petro says:

06:01pm | 27/05/11

I’ve noticed the article says “No woman deserves rape or invites sexual assault.”

Why “women” only, and not men as well? The author could easily have said: “No one deserves rape or invites sexual assault”.

Same thing they advertise in Australia “Australia says no to violence against women”, yeah, and what about men, what about an elderly grandfather… Please, why cant’ condemn violence against everyone? Why is rape against women considered wrong, but we make fun and joke about how men get raped in prison.

This shows the bias against men, and the hypocrise of many of the feminists. If you want condemn an activity, condemn it absolutely.

AAAdam says:

06:38pm | 27/05/11

@ Meg - I agree with the vast majority of your post, however, I did not agree with this part:

“It is about power, not pleasure. I understand the slutwalk is trying to dispel the misconception that free sexual expression attracts or is an excuse for violence.”

Unless someone has access to mind of every rapist how could they possibly know that all rapists only ever care about power, not pleasure? Do they think a guy/girl that sleeps with a drunken member of the opposite sex doesn’t get pleasure from it? I’d argue that some men and women who perpetrate rape receive sexual pleasure from the act. Indeed, they are often sexually aroused when they perform such acts (look at drunken encounters or child molesters for example). Furthermore, there are sicko’s who enjoy watching rape videos for sexual gratification. We’d be foolhardy indeed to assume that it is a misconception that free sexual expression attracts violence in the form of rape. Far from it. Free sexual expression can most definitely attract the attention of those interested in sex, including the attention of rapists who get some kind of twisted sexual pleasure from the act. Indeed, heightening the amount of sexual attention someone receives by exhibiting free sexual expression increases the risk they will receive unwanted attention - no misconception there, even if people don’t like it.

JD says:

09:14pm | 27/05/11

Could agree more.  Women in this country are so lucky and they still complain. Slut walk ? Seriously? They must have nothing else to worry about. Anyway, be it “slut”, “slapper” , “skank: , whatever…nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.  Walk away sluts.

Ronnie says:

09:24pm | 27/05/11

Its all very simple girls.  A woman who screws around is a slut. A man who screws around is a stud.  To simplify, ill explain. If a key opens lots of locks, then it’s a master key and this would be really cool to have.  But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then that’s a pretty shitty, thrashed out lock, that nobody would want”. I hope thats simple enough for the brain dead, Misandrists out there to understand.

BK says:

10:02pm | 27/05/11

Carz

You are full of it. You might not criticise men that you hardly know for sleeping around (but I doubt it). When you really care about a bloke and you come to realise that he sees you as a bit of temporary fun, you are/were anything but forgiving. I refuse to believe otherwise.

It is nonsense to suggest that men who sleep around are not criticised. I am not complaining about this. I believe that these blokes are selfish scum too. Just don’t pretend that they aren’t criticised.

Fiona says:

12:32am | 28/05/11

Do you have another track, or is it just a one themed tune on your personal CD?

Fiona says:

12:48am | 28/05/11

@AAdam, here’s a comparison of the terms you used
He’s such a player VS she’s such a slut.
Try this
He’s such a good tennis player VS she’s such a good tennis slut
One word is fairly generic, the other isn’t.
@Erick, if you feel this much about the issue, do something about it.

Erick says:

09:19am | 28/05/11

@Fiona - I am doing something about it. This is something.

Of course, you aren’t really making that suggestion in good faith. Like so many other feminists, you just want me to shut up. Which, in turn, indicates that what I am doing is effective.

AAAdam says:

11:14am | 28/05/11

LOL @ Fiona and her small brain. I’ll dumb it down a bit for you sweetheart. Carz said, in regards to the word slut, “Funnily enough there is no similar, gender specific, term for men”. I proved otherwise with the word “player” and the way some women use it. Your blabbering about the word “player” being able to be used in a different context is entirely irrelevant to my argument and the point I was making (i.e. my point that there are similar, gender specific, terms for men).

P.S. Want to take a crack at the word “manwhore” too? That word also proves my point.

Brad says:

11:49am | 28/05/11

Actually, worldwide, domestic violence is committed about 40% of the time BY women.

Mythica says:

12:36pm | 28/05/11

AAAAAW Ewick, when you put the sleeping pill in that nasty feminists dwink, and she woke up the next morning in your smelly sheets, did she get angwy and and falsly acuse you of wape.  ooooh poaw ewik.

(Example of Erick’s false allegations of rape.)

Wake up Erick, you need to stop whinging and playing the victim.I personally know at least ten women who have been raped by men, two maybe three boys raped by male priests, and not one man who has been falsely accused of rape.By the way not one of the women who was raped filed any police report.

Carz says:

06:28pm | 28/05/11

BK Said:
  You are full of it. You might not criticise men that you hardly know for sleeping around (but I doubt it). When you really care about a bloke and you come to realise that he sees you as a bit of temporary fun, you are/were anything but forgiving. I refuse to believe otherwise.

  It is nonsense to suggest that men who sleep around are not criticised. I am not complaining about this. I believe that these blokes are selfish scum too. Just don’t pretend that they aren’t criticised.

Believe what you like. You don’t know me. It is interesting to note that you choose to attack me rather than my arguments. Just for the record, I don’t really care who sleeps with who or how often they do it, so long as it doesn’t affect me. I never said that men are never criticised for sleeping around. What I said was that there was no commonly used term to shame them for having such a reputation.

As for the term “player”, what a joke to compare it to the word “slut”.  Player makes it sound like a game, while slut is quite simply a judgement of a person’s sexual activity, “class” (or lack of it) and morals.

Andy says:

07:31pm | 28/05/11

Isn’t it amazing that Erick has a different point of view, he is attacked viciously. I wonder if the same people who attack him would be the first to hide behind the veil of “I am a woman, it is unchivalrious to attack me like this”. It is also amazing that both Julia Gillard and Kristina Keneally hide behind the same all the time, allowing them to get away with things said and done that no man would be able to get away with. Kristina, for example, famously denigrated a male Opposition (at the time) member’s sense of dress. Julia has her infamous giggle and touching. I’d like to see a man get away with touching a female ALP member or reporter like that.

So much for our “equal” society. Like it or not, Erick has a point. Those who attack him knows this but since it does not suit their agenda and is thus a threat, they try to put him down and make him irrelevant. Basic ploy of the left, and one that is frowned upon in any debate society.

Aaron says:

09:11pm | 28/05/11

Seriously I’ve read a lot of Erick’s comments and get past the anger and frustration and he has good points. It’s not a matter of women out to get men, it’s a case of men’s voices no longer being heard in society. Unfortunately there aren’t any statistics to identify which gender perpetrates the most violence against people as the only googleable statistics are all related to violence against women… including the WHO’s report. No studies are actually done on violence against men, and to be honest (and this is not a suggestion to anyone) most men get into a fight and suck it up and don’t report it.

Men are encouraged to be bulletproof and emotionless and protectors. Even ads against violence against women calls upon men, not women, to be the protectors.

Really the person who offers another a drink and then spikes said drink is to blame for any resulting crime, however the person who accepted the drink in good faith maybe should have considered their options, not accept the drink and get their own, or accept the offer but get the drink themselves.

Risk reduction for men wanting to prevent being accused of rape/sexual assault pretty much involves having a contract signed in front of two witnesses and a recording of the events to provide evidence that everything was agreed to. The funny thing is a man would get called a perv, sleaze, slimeball, whatever for even suggesting that the encounter is recorded. Oh and a woman would instantly turn away the minute you say you want to ensure that you have evidence of consent.

I’m sorry but we as a people cannot always be keeping an eye out for other people.

AAAdam says:

10:15pm | 28/05/11

“As for the term “player”, what a joke to compare it to the word “slut”.  Player makes it sound like a game, while slut is quite simply a judgement of a person’s sexual activity, “class” (or lack of it) and morals”.

The word player, used in the context I mentioned, also makes a judgment of a person’s sexual activity, “class” (or lack of it) and morals. To presume it may sound like a game only demonstrates your inability to understand the definition of the word in the context of promiscuity (unless of course you are just being sexist and saying it sounds like a game because males are involved?). That being said, if you want to play the context game, then we can assume the word slut also means an untidy women, a slovenly women, someone who commits adultery or even a female dog. Kinda tough to claim it is offensive if I start saying it just means an untidy women or female dog, eh? Though I wouldn’t do that because I understand context and how important it is to giving the word “slut” definition, thus I expect you can appreciate the same applies to word “player”. Hence, when used in context they can both have the same meaning to the respective genders.

As such, my point still stands; there are male equivalents of the word slut when used in the context of sexual permissiveness, so you were wrong earlier. Another great example is “manwhore”, though I noticed you (conveniently) failed to address that word in your response, as did Fiona.

Mythica says:

11:54am | 29/05/11

When I was at High School I remember plenty of girls being called sluts,  I don’t however remember any boys being called players or man whores!
If you have never been called a slut then you have no idea what it feels like.

Stacey says:

01:34pm | 29/05/11

Your argument lacks basic common sense.

At what point is it a myth that women are “targets of violence and terrible social discrimination”? That’s an absolute fact. There are statistics and studies proving it.

You then go on to say that we should stop paying attention to this cause, and turn our minds to the other cause of discrimination against men, and that feminists should stop whinging.

It’s not necessary for someone to stop advocating their cause for another to be heard. You’re trying to quash those who stand up for women’s rights in the same way you complain of having your advocates quashed. It’s hypocritical and senseless.

If you believe that discrimination against men is a real problem, find a team and start a march like these people have done. Do something productive instead of pulling down those who try to do so.

AAAdam says:

01:58pm | 29/05/11

@ Mythica - Nice logic (sarcasm). Let’s try it the other way and see if it highlights the weakness of your reasoning:

“When I was at High School I remember plenty of guys being called players and manwhores, I don’t however remember any girls being called sluts!
If you have never been called a player or manwhore then you have no idea what it feels like.”

See any glaring weaknesses in that logic Mythica? See how weak your subjective statements are and how they only really tell everyone about the writers (lack of) knowledge, experience or exposure to the real world.

acotrel says:

09:37am | 27/05/11

@Erick
‘Misandry is no better, noble, or warranted than misogyny. ‘
And vicky verka!

CABAL says:

09:44am | 27/05/11

Misandry, misogny who need em

Better to be a Misanthrope, hate all people equally. At least then you can never be accused of discrimination..

Erick says:

09:52am | 27/05/11

Yet misandry is mainstream and socially acceptable, while misogyny is rare and widely condemned.

TChong says:

10:02am | 27/05/11

acotrel- put yur reading specs on, old mate.
Ecks probaly gone all pale and sweaty from this mistaken identity !!!
Agree though, absolutists statements dont help any cause.

Kika says:

02:13pm | 27/05/11

Well… ah.. the men I know prefer women to be sluts. My husband included. He likes that sort of thing. In private of course. In fact across our culture women are openly expressed in what Erick would say is the fine appreciation of male sexuality. So according to Erick, the Cleo Bachelor of the Year Award is a gross feminist BS parade - where the guys are judged on their personality, lifestyles, and cuteness whereas the FHM or Ralph Babe of the Year award is rated on T & A.

We say we’re all free in the west and women are equal. Rubbish! The way women since at least the 70’s have been used as sex things and are made by the feminists to appreciate that (but scorn the men for appreciating them) is just bizarre. No wonder we have the issue of Ladettes - we encourage girls to play up to men’s expectations of being tarts and to encourage the men’s sexuality yet admonish them for doing so for being un lady like.  It’s no wonder we’re all so confused.

Hank says:

02:16pm | 27/05/11

Yay for sluts.  The more sluts the better the chances for us boys.  Keep up the good work sluts.  I mean ladies.

SayNoToNuttersLikeEric says:

09:17pm | 27/05/11

@Eric ... you can’t honestly believe the rubbish you are writing. No one else does.

Women use sex as a weapon… honestly what a stupid thing to say. That is not a litteral expression. Sounds like your feelings have been hurt with too many rejections for your liking.  Grow up and get a clue.

Kelly says:

11:46pm | 27/05/11

“Men want women to be sluts” - based on the sheer volume of pornography consumed by men and the fact that ‘slut’ is the default term for women in pornography, Gail Dines was spot on. I note she didn’t say “all men” she said “men.”

AAAdam says:

11:17am | 27/05/11

“Whereas I believe in equality and that women should not have to dress in a certain way as to avoid ‘tempting’ men”

I agree with the rest of your post 100%, however, I also think there is nothing wrong with giving people safety advice on how to dress in order to minimise the risks they are expose to in daily life. No-one’s blaming the victim, just giving them strategies to reduce the likelihood of them becoming a victim in the first place. To me, this is the same as teaching someone self defence.

AdamC says:

11:42am | 27/05/11

I agree, AAAdam, giving advice to people on minimising their risk of becoming victims of crime is not the same as excusing perpetrators or blaming the victim.

(And it’s good to see you have resolved the name issue. I briefly flirted with Conservatives Unite! as a more creative alternative to AdamC, but decided against it in the end.)

Sarah, you are spot on. To me, there are two uses of the word slut. The first is basically a hate term for women. But the second is to describe women who, rather than really enjoying her sexuality, uses it to bolster her low self-esteem. And we all know how that narrative goes.

I don’t know why women would want to engage with the word in either of its contexts.

Snake says:

11:54am | 27/05/11

Too true Adam.

I don’t think it’s blaming the victim to say they are “attracting the wrong type of attention” or “sending the wrong message” when they dress like that.

I would love to tell people they are safe to do whatever they want, whenever they want while wearing whatever they want but that isn’t the case. If you walk around drunk in a city laneway at night with huge wads of cash visibile, it is quite likely that someone is going to bash you and take it.

This whole thing is up there with the Indian media calling us racist because a couple Indian students got bashed and got their ipods and laptops stolen. Fact is, it isn’t their fault they got bashed but they didn’t help the situation by walking around with expensive goods in dodgy suburbs at all hours of the night.

There are things to avoid when going out. There are messages you do NOT want to send to people. Educating women is a far greater idea than branding them all with the same slur. If you want to be a slut, great, what do your parents think about that?

AAAdam says:

12:51pm | 27/05/11

@ AdamC - Hahaha, now I just have to remember my new name is AAAdam. I appear to have a habit of instinctually writing the old one (as per a post a few down from this one).

@ Snake - Yep, I agree with that. It seems ironic that people acknowledge there is a real world (i.e. one with rapists, etc) yet they then try to apply ideals from a utopian world to reality (i.e. I should be able to wear whatever I want, whenever I want, where ever I want and not ever attract unwarranted attention, with anyone who says otherwise being a “victim blamer”). This inevitably leads to the two worlds of utopia and reality colliding, with no-one really surprised when the utopian values fail those who espouse them.

I can also think of numerous examples of clothing that are used to minimise risk (bullet proof vests, steel cap boots, fluro vests, hard hats, etc). All have a place for reducing risk in the real world. Sure, they don’t eliminate risk entirely, but they certainly reduce it. Taking simple precautions such as not wandering around alone, not leaving drinks unattended, being aware of your surroundings, not getting so intoxicated you can’t make rational decisions and dressing in a manner that does not draw unwanted attention are all valid risk reduction strategies for people concerned about rape. We know we live in the real world (not utopia) and we know the police can’t be everywhere at once so we need to a take a bit of responsibility for our own personal safety where appropriate. Personally, I’d prefer to minimise my risk and not be a victim, rather than becoming a victim then complaining about “victim blaming” and marching in slutwalk when someone suggests I alter my behaviour to reduce my risk.

Kika says:

02:35pm | 27/05/11

I agree with you Sarah. You can still receive male attention without having to dress or act like a slut. In fact if you take pride in your appearance and dress nicely and lady like you will probably receive attention from the right sort of men, not the ones who are more interested in looking at your bits.

Peter says:

08:14pm | 27/05/11

Suggesting that women avoid dressing provocatively to reduce the risk of of attracting the wrong attention is no different to the advice police give to motorists not to leave valuables visible in unattended vehicles. You shouldn’t have to hide your valuables and if you don’t and they get stolen it’s still not your fault. It’s just good advice to reduce your risk of becoming a victim.

AAAdam says:

12:32am | 28/05/11

Peter, I agree 100%. You’ve said it well my friend.

leon pendragon says:

01:55am | 28/05/11

they cover their wives head to toe in most muslim countries cos allah thinks men cant be trusted not to turn into wild animals at the mere glimpse of a naked knee and they have a lot more sexual asults they we ever do.you women should be glad that that youve got so many sexy options with your clothing what have we got the mankini love a clever slut .

Austin 3:16 says:

08:29am | 28/05/11

Flippin heck Sarah, because somebody is out late hours and can’t afford private transport they are fair game to be robbed.

You gotta be kidding.

Sarah says:

01:39pm | 30/05/11

Um - Austin 3:16 - at what time did I say that women are fair game? My first comment stated a) i like equality, b) women should NOT have to dress in a certain way to avoid tempting men (i.e wear whatever the hell you want and you should have the right to be safe regardless) and c) I think its really sad that any female would want to identify with the term ‘Slut’ and all its connotations. Not anywhere have I said that women entice men to hurt them by the way they dress…....

Kika says:

02:45pm | 27/05/11

I agree with you. Go to any ‘women’s room’ at a uni campus and the place is filled with lesbians. Because it’s trendy to be gay and uncool to be straight (whether it be male or female).

But I disagree with you on one point. Women don’t make babies. Men and women make babies. I didn’t think you could impregnate yourself.

Tim says:

10:13am | 27/05/11

Well said Tubesteak.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

01:37pm | 27/05/11

Slut = promiscuous
 
Enjoying sex doesn’t mean you have to be promiscous.

Kika says:

02:16pm | 27/05/11

So basically it’s ok for a man to be a slut, but not a woman? See, that’s what’s wrong with appreciating ‘male’ sexuality in Aussie culture. It’s completely one sided.

Tim says:

02:41pm | 27/05/11

Kika,
read the responses to Carz’s comment above.
Sexual currency is the answer.

Kassandra says:

03:03pm | 27/05/11

Er not exactly. According to the Oxford dictionary “slut” means a slovenly woman, which is to say careless and untidy. Its origins are unknown. Presumably the implication of wanton promiscuity has arisen through common usage. Personally I think these women are nuts. Whatever a slut is supposed to be I agree it means someone with no class. I don’t think it has anything to do with rape and this stunt is pointless. Dressing like a skank and behaving wantonly is something I enjoy very much but strictly in private thank you very much.

Bilby says:

10:28am | 27/05/11

Yes and no. My best mate in high school was Greek and yeah we called each other wog and skip (how original I know…). He even asked my mum if she had any “togs for wogs” one morning when staying at my place.

As you say with the N word, it’s ok between mates, but not from strangers. My mate asked me to stop calling him wog in public, because other people heard it and thought it was ok. There’s a culture of being mildly abusive to close friends in Australia, which marks you as a friend, not just an acquaintance. We shouldn’t mistake this for general acceptance of any particular word.

fairsfair says:

11:05am | 27/05/11

True, but in my part of Australia it can even be constrewed as a compliment. If you work like a wog you are a hardworker.  Yes, there are a lot of people about who would use it as an insult, but depending on delivery it can be a good thing. Look at the movie Wog Boy and that Guido Hatzis dude from years ago - they have turned it into humour and in some circumstances “positive culture”. But I definately get what you are saying Bilbs.

I think it is a generational thing too. Younger Italians and Greeks have probably never seen the term Wog thrown at them like their grandparents did. I am sure their grandparents are appauled that they happily label themselves something they were hurt by and faught against. But in doing so they have beat the bigots at their own game. This is the intention of the Slutwalkers but I don’t see it happening.

I for one can not see a movie title using Slut or a comedy radio skit about a slut ringing people for laughs. These girls are tying to do to Slut, what has happened to Wog - it is never going to work because it is a horrible word that your average woman will never embrace to be a term of endearment. It has so many negative and underlying connotations that go so far beyond the volume of sex and the number of partners a woman has.

Erick says:

10:17am | 27/05/11

I don’t think any of the marchers are silly enough to believe that the slut walk will actually do anything to stop rape. They’re really walking for other reasons:

(1) Getting attention. “Look at meeeee! I’m sexy!”

(2) Spreading the feminist myth that women are discriminated against.

(3) Bashing men.

If you disregard the stated purpose of the event, and look at the real motivations behind it, the whole thing makes sense.

Erick says:

01:59pm | 27/05/11

While I wouldn’t wish any harm on the author, you do make a good point. How dare she suggest that men shouldn’t think about women in a way that suits them? Does she believe that she has a right to dictate to other people what they may think about?

What would be the reaction if a man told women what they were, and were not, allowed to think about men? The arrogance and entitlement of the author is astounding.

kirsty says:

03:10pm | 27/05/11

He’s probably only there becuase he thinks he will get laid…

fairsfair says:

11:07am | 27/05/11

Gee you are keeping peeps on their toes Adamm, AdaM or is that Up&Adam;?

You were supposed to settle on one!

AAAdam says:

11:21am | 27/05/11

Note to self: Remember you changed your name from Adam to AAAdam. Do not hit stop on your browser, fix it, then resend it (it double posts). And aways check your HTML coding.

Ergh, I shouldn’t have skipped the first coffee of the day! Anyway, here is how my post was meant to look (I hope).

“Organizers told people to wear whatever they wanted. The message was: Who’s a slut? We all are. Or none of us are. And who cares? It’s a stupid, meaningless concept anyway.”

To call the word slut a “stupid meaningless concept” smacks of hypocrisy. It almost appears the author of this statement was trying to say that because the word is not quantitative but rather qualitative then it has no meaning. What utter garbage. By this logic the words “stupid” and “meaningless” would also have no meaning as would the words “beautiful”, “healthy”, “happy”, etc, etc. I suggest she picks up a dictionary and reads it before she starts claiming slut is a meaningless, stupid word. I believe she will find it has a very clear meaning indeed, just as all those other words do, and slut is not something most women want to be calling themselves (even if the word is qualitative).

Romli065 says:

05:33pm | 27/05/11

Totally agree Adam.  Well said.  Slut is not a word I would ever want to be called, I don’t embrace it at all, regardless of the cause.  Surely these women could have found a more appropriate way to represent themselves.  I think it’s a very poorly thought out strategy.  The word slut is what it is - you can’t change it’s meaning just because you want to.

AAAdam says:

06:52pm | 27/05/11

@ Romlio - Yeah, it is an odd tactic that defies logic. A word is just a way of conveying a idea or concept anyway. Even if they reclaim the word, what kind of victory is it? The concept of dirty, promiscuous women will still remain. Perhaps someone will make up a new name for the concept or perhaps we will just have to resort to calling them dirty, promiscuous women. Either way, having a bunch of women running around trying to reclaim the word “slut” because they don’t want to feel guilty when people call them it, hardy seems to do the cause any really good.

Mathias says:

11:17am | 27/05/11

Samuel Pepys’s diary description of his servant girl as “an admirable slut” who “pleases us mightily, doing more service than both the others and deserves wages better”

hahaha, during the weekend I shall try to work ‘admirable slut’ into a conversation.

RT says:

01:43pm | 27/05/11

Maybe the chicks in the photo would be sluts if they weren’t so fugly…

Markus says:

11:48am | 27/05/11

What if the person’s individuality does not warrant my respect?

Demanding that I respect everyone else irregardless of their actions, personality and, dare I say it, dress sense, does not respect my individuality!

Reg says:

01:46pm | 27/05/11

I find it easier to hate everyone until they do something worthy to change that…

I have no friends.

Chris L says:

06:23pm | 28/05/11

Reg, I’m trying to organise an anti-social club at work for those who don’t like the social club. Would you like to join? I’m having trouble getting members to show up for events.

Rover of North Cooma says:

12:26pm | 27/05/11

Plus calling Gail Dines a “US anti porn author and activist” is obviously wrong. Anyone who’s had the misfortune of hearing her bang on about women’s anuses falling out because porn-crazed men force them to have anal sex would know she is a Brit. She may be based in Boston but she is English through and through.

leon pendragon says:

02:04am | 28/05/11

sluts are great i know sometimes the word hero gets used a bit too freely but sluts are heros even the dodgy looking ones are giving the less evolved blokes a seeing to god bless em

Markus says:

12:03pm | 27/05/11

Nothing has changed Amanda, that is the entire point of the word existing.
Trying to make the word meaningless is pointless, when it’s point is very well defined.
At best, it will just de-fang the word ‘slut’ so that it doesn’t have as much impact in denigrating, humiliating and shaming.

However this will do nothing to stop people attempting to denigrate, humiliate and shame a person, it will just move them on to a new word with more impact.
Whore will still be around. As will skank, trollop, slag, munter, strumpet (my personal favourite because it rhymes with crumpet), the list goes on.

Nobody, man or woman, has the inherent right to be respected for their choices in life, whatever said choices may be.
Just as someone has the personal freedom to choose to dress or act however they wish, everyone else has the personal freedom to choose not to respect them.

Fiona says:

09:20am | 28/05/11

Don’t like hilali, but at least he’s open about his antiquated views and we know what he looks like. I can avoid him if I wish. Online, however, everyones anonymous and happy to spill some awful bile. I makes me think, what does that man who fixed my car, or the woman who rang up my shopping think of the opposite gender/young people etc? I know we can’t be the thought police, but it’s still sad.

Kelly says:

12:13pm | 27/05/11

It is interesting to hear your perspective. I am trying to get through to my 16yo daughter that you are judged by the way you dress AND act. Whether it’s revealing clothing, ripped clothing or having a face full of piercings. Right or wrong, if a young woman dresses provocatively AND acts in such a way that suggests ‘sluttiness’ she will be treated that way. There is a big difference between a woman who dresses sexy, but acts in a mature way, and a woman who,well, acts like she will put out to put it blankly. It’s a bit like comparing Delta Goodrum to Madonna! Madonna may not be a slut, but she has been judged quite harshly over the decades due to the way she dresses and acts. Sadly not all men can read the signals correctly and think it’s an invitation. My daughter is going through a bad period where she thinks being sexually available will make her popular and get her a boyfriend. And then she is upset when it turns out a boy she likes has just used her for sex. Her reputation is starting to proceed her. It is heartbreaking.

No I don’t think it’s right that women should have to be covered from head to toe. But I do wonder why so many young women put their goods on very obvious display, act sexually agressive, and then get upset when men pay them unwanted attention. Do they get upset because ugly men ogle them? Is that it? Are they only advertising to the ‘hot’ guys? Sorry girls, but you can’t isolate the market demographic!
I’m married and I no longer feel it’s appropriate to wear certain clothing. Mainly out of respect for my husband. I don’t need to have other men appreciate my assets to feel sexy and confident. I’ve actually changed clothes at times because I thought I’ve shown too much unnecessary cleavage!

I must say Jenny that it’s refreshing to see a woman accept that it is a two way street. Particularly someone who’s had experiences like you have. People make perceptions and judgements about you when they first look at you. They could well be wrong, but if how you dress and act is not the way you really are, how can you expect that people won’t misjudge you?

I grew up in a smallish town. We all had opinions on who the sluts were in town, and also who all the scummy blokes were that were to be avoided. They were most likely nice people, but their actions and appearance didn’t give us that impression, and they were usually shunned.

We all make choices on how we will live our life, which is our freedom, but we must be prepared to accept the consequences of those choices.

Fiona says:

09:12am | 28/05/11

Agreed Jenny & Kelly. I had to tell my older kids (boy and girl) that what you were wearing could leave an unintended impression and that you shouldn’t assume that was what was meant. Also that you need to treat yourself with respect and sex isn’t necessarily a game or to use as a weapon. Good luck with your daughter, Kelly, hope the penny drops before further damage is done.

MK says:

03:48pm | 29/05/11

Jenny, Kelly and Fiona!
Three women actually talking with sense and a connection to reality,
Better watch out, if this then catches on and spreads,
Crazy ideas like men and women accepting differences and taking responsibility for their actions and safety, (Absoulte Crazy talk i know)

If we are ot careful we might reduce this gender divide and improve the situation.

Unfortuantely none of the female columnist seem to halve one thimble full of sense demostrated by you

BK says:

10:25pm | 27/05/11

Exactly!

The bit that men resent isn’t simply women having sex, it is the use of suggestions of being sexually available to get favours. Men cannot brag about sleeping around and get any sort of favours, so thse women are taking advantage of double-standards. It really irritates me to hear defenders of sluts confecting outrage about non-existent double-standards on behalf of women who are perfectly happy to take advantage of double-standards.

wahcakes says:

05:30pm | 27/05/11

I agree - “the australia says no to violence against women” is BS I never have & never will beat my partner and would encourage anyone of either gender to GTFO of an abusive relationship , I could really get behind an “australia says no to violence” campaign - but that sounds too much like true equality to be palatable to people like the author

Jane says:

03:45pm | 28/05/11

My son was charged with assault and found not guilty. He pushed the attacking female away and left a small mark when he grabbed her arm as she tried to punch him. Gender based crusades are pointless, all violence, all rape, all disease etc should be eradicated, not just those issues affecting women. Men hurt too.

Matt says:

01:27pm | 27/05/11

pffft.. and you call yourself a comedian?  Is your name Jordan Paris by chance?

Markus says:

01:26pm | 27/05/11

And after claiming the word ‘gay’ for themselves, many gay activist groups are outraged that the younger generation use the word to mean uncool, daggy or lame.

Apparently the meanings of words are only allowed to be determined by loud whiney activist groups, not by society itself.

Rose says:

02:19pm | 27/05/11

Generally speaking, if a woman is a slut there’s no need to tell the whole world…..it’s so obvious we already know!

JC says:

01:34pm | 27/05/11

”  Women want to be able to act however they please, yet not be judged for it.  “

yes, we want to be equal to men.

mike j says:

01:55pm | 27/05/11

JC, if the posts on this site are any indication, it’s never going to happen.

Erick says:

02:50pm | 27/05/11

Wait, what? Since when could men do as they please and not be judged for it?

Markus says:

03:04pm | 27/05/11

JC, men are judged for everything they do.
Hell, according to this article we shouldn’t even be allowed to think in a certain way anymore.

The difference between men and women is that, for the most part, men just don’t give a shit what people think.

Women already have the exact same freedoms and opportunities as men. They just clearly can’t handle the scrutiny that comes with it.
So how about instead of ridiculous public marches aimed at making everyone be nice to them, try growing the f**k up and stop caring what other people think?

Mahhrat says:

03:09pm | 27/05/11

@JC, you do realise that men already see women as equal (remember kids, it’s 2011), right?

Actually, my dad said it well a few years back: “I’m all for gender equality, but why women want to step down to our level is beyond me.”

Jasper says:

04:55pm | 27/05/11

Oh for goodness sake, women have ALWAYS been in the workplace, or do you honestly believe that medieval peasant families could be supported by the labour of one person? Or thast working class women were exempted from the poor laws of the 19th century and the workhouse? Maybe you’d like to tell me that my great-grandmother & grandmother didn’t support their families by going out to paid work.

Women have always worked, it is only a small percentage of middle & upper class women who have not had to work because of economic realities.

Bilby says:

02:03pm | 27/05/11

Being open minded is all well and good, but don’t be so open minded as to let your brains fall out. It’s not about enjoying sex, it’s about your personal ethics and morals which go to the way you go about getting that sex. As an example, do you care whether the person you’re chatting up already has a partner? If so, you’re probably not a slut.

Matt says:

03:17pm | 27/05/11

Being open minded is all well and good, but don’t be so open minded as to let your brains fall out. - No such thing as being too open minded, and your brains can’t fall out… 

Morals and ethics are taught and can be changed.  I would care that the person I was chatting up had a partner or not - but it’s not up to me to judge or name-call the person that doesn’t care.

Bilby says:

03:45pm | 27/05/11

Matt - You appear to have fallen for that age old trap: What you call open minded is in fact a complete lack of standards. Failing to judge poor, unethical, and/or immoral behaviour in others doesn’t make you open minded, it’s makes you weak. That’s my judgement.

sage advice says:

04:57pm | 27/05/11

This is a serious question for women.  Not one that should be taken lightly. Indeed, one should go even further, and state quite categorically, that one is more than sensible of the definition of the precise word, for which at once, answers are required.

Dieter Moeckel says:

05:38pm | 27/05/11

Matt maaaate ... Women can enjoy as much sex as blokes any time. They are just not allowed to skite about it. But then any bloke who skites about his conquests is a fair dick head anyway.

Have as much sex as you want, male or female just don’t flaunt it.
Any bloke that wears a codpiece or undersized budgi smugglers is a male equivalent of a slut.

Kika says:

02:26pm | 27/05/11

Excellent point. Precisely. It’s only women who care too much about what people think about them that would care. I mean the girl interviewed says she likes having her ‘girls’ out. Why? To serve what purpose? I know. To make sure peope notice them and not your fat body. Self esteem gone wrong. Way wrong, that’s what.

Markus says:

03:16pm | 27/05/11

Exactly, Kika. While I think we’ve disagreed a few times regarding such topics, my stance has always been similar to what you’ve just written.

Women have the equality of opportunity and freedom of choice that men do.
But so many women seem think that there is a double standard, purely because men don’t take being judged by society as personally as they do, despite being judged just as often for their choices, if not more.

I fail to see how their inability to handle public criticism for their choices is anyone’s problem but theirs.

Kika says:

05:10pm | 27/05/11

I agree Markus. It’s up to you on how you decide to react to something. But these people are just annoying sht stirrers that want to make a mountain out of a molehill. I think most women don’t want to ‘reclaim’ the word because we never claimed it for ourselves in the first place.

Markus says:

05:52pm | 27/05/11

Ah true, I forgot about that as the other possibility.
The women in this walk are either:
- Extremely insecure, and unable to handle any negative public perception that comes from their poor choices
- Trolls

Kika says:

02:17pm | 27/05/11

He did write an article for them. Please don’t encourage him to do it again.

John Smythe says:

04:26pm | 27/05/11

I usually just ignore it and move to the next comment.

Ray says:

05:15pm | 27/05/11

Well Bill how about we discuss the issues confronting men. They make up roughly half of society did you know.

Dieter Moeckel says:

05:51pm | 27/05/11

Not quite Nes ... women and men are certainly equal or have the right to be equal but they are non congruent and when women take off their bras or model in the nude or semi nude they do to deliberately attract attention, and I guess especially male attention and it works. When I think of animals abuse or animals used for other than food reasons I see in my minds eye women demonstrating for PETA semi nude in cages or for another example the candle wrapped in barbed wire of Amnesty International is a potent symbol.
But that doesn’t mean that women should just let it all hang out and pretend that men shouldn’t notice. Slovenly women don’t do it for me. but then I can get very excited by cleverly mo=destly dressed women.

Dieter Moeckel says:

05:57pm | 27/05/11

Agreed Drafnel,
But another point of view is that women should be able to dress in whatever way the want, go where ever they want at any time they want and it is up to society to protect them - that means the police. If the police the societies protectors can’t protect them than they should be allowed to protect themselves - carry mace, or a neat little Berretta .32, or even a taser.
But just because the police can’t protect them doen’t mean they don’t have the “right”....

Me too says:

03:48pm | 27/05/11

Michelle I too have been raped and agree, it is never ok. Reading your story also reminds me that rape and is never about the victim. Rape is all about the perpetrator and their needs, the victim is invisible and worth less than a person. I felt like a nothing, a nobody, just an object he could use for his satisfaction. This myth that attraction is a prerequiisite for rape really has to be dispelled. The slutwalk is doing nothing to help there.

Eva says:

04:38pm | 27/05/11

Well I may not have advised my sons about what to wear but I certainly did give them advice to watch out for older men who were after them. I have also given them advice about women because they certainly need to be protected from both sexes whilst they are still adolescent.

Ray says:

05:11pm | 27/05/11

Eva, truck off. You are compartmentalising older men. If women weren’t hell bent on a course to destroy all men, older men would still be respected as the pillar of the neighbourhood. Thanks *lut.

Eva says:

06:58pm | 27/05/11

Ray,

when you watch a 50 year old man make moves on your 15 year old son at a party it becomes important to warn him to be careful. Then when your next son is 15 and another 50 year old man makes moves on him on a commuter train it becomes evident that young people of either sex can be the recipients of unwanted sexual advances they they have yet to learn appropriate ways of fending off.

Each time it happened they were wearing the regulation jeans and hoody so just like with women it is not the clothes that draw the attention but more likely something in their posture that indicated their vulnerability.

Ray says:

12:46pm | 28/05/11

Eva you really are a slu*. You want to categorise all older men as paedophiles with an ideology based purpose.

A 50+ year old man is now firstly a problem and secondly a person.. Can’t go to the local swimming pool, must leave the beach if there are kids and no adults or adults like you, are a prime target for any paedophile or incest inuendos in divorce or just outright paranoia, or just plain perverts and can’t be trusted with grandchilren.

Meanwhile we are just scraping the surface with women’s predatory behaviour. We even encourage cougars as a badge of honour .

As I said, thanks *rsehole..

Fiona says:

09:37am | 28/05/11

What’s a real woman act like? Or a real man for that matter? Please educate us.

Oracle says:

03:56pm | 27/05/11

Your examples may have historical relevance, however not today and if the argument you are making is “everything is fair because of past injustices”, then this is rationalising a sedx war….is that going to be productive?

Also, please don’t forget that men had to physically fight and die to receive property rights, land rights, voting rights etc….and there plenty of women within the Aristocracy and ruling class that had an interest and say (Queens remember?) in maintaining the status Quos.

Markus says:

04:23pm | 27/05/11

Being a sexually promiscuous man actually takes talent - it requires just the right combination of physical appearance, cash and/or fame, and gift of the gab.
Being a sexually promiscuous women entails being able to spread your legs at will…

Be a slut if you want, but don’t ever think you have the right to be respected for it, any more than you would a conspiracy theorist, a racist, or a used car salesman.

bella starkey says:

04:54pm | 27/05/11

Markus, are you saying that you would sleep with any woman who presented herself to you? because that is what you seem to be implying.

If so, that surely says more about your lack of self control and than it does about the woman’s morals. No one is forcing a man to get off with someone who shows interest in them, At least in your scenario the woman is making an active choice to persue a sexual encounter, the man seem to incapable of making a judgement of whether they want to sleep with her or not.

Who do you think has less self respect, in that case?

Ray says:

05:07pm | 27/05/11

Zaf is that what you hope. Women who don’t dress properly are sluts. Women who are sexually indiscriminate are sluts. That’s got Aussie females covered. What do you wish to discuss next.

Zaf says:

05:07pm | 27/05/11

Markus - I think the point is that all human being deserve respect, and no human beings deserve to be attacked or molested.  Regardless of what they wear or their sexual proclivities.  (Or their nationality. Or skin colour. etc.)

In that sense the Slutwalk is a lot like the SGL Mardi Gras - essentially a civil rights thing for women who don’t necessarily fit in the ‘good girl’ box(if you pardon the expression).

Markus says:

05:38pm | 27/05/11

I respectfully disagree, Zaf. I do not think anybody deserves respect if their beliefs and actions do not warrant it.
Nationality, race and sexual preference are not choices, so you can’t compare to the conscious decision to act like a slut.

@Bella, if I found her sexually attractive, and was currently single, then yes, yes I would.
If you’re attempting to make me feel ashamed of that, I wish you the best of luck, because you’ll be waiting a long time.

Zaf says:

05:55pm | 27/05/11

@Ray -  I hope that you treat sluts with the same respect and consideration that you expect from others.  Let’s discuss that next.

Zaf says:

07:47pm | 27/05/11

[I do not think anybody deserves respect if their beliefs and actions do not warrant it.]

Fair call, Markus, but I don’t think being ‘promiscuous’ or ‘dressing revealingly’ warrant a lack of respect for a person. It’s their business, so long as it just involves two consenting adults and it’s not hurting anybody else. If you’re ready to have sex with someone who is appealing and available (and I’m right there with you, I’m not judging it at all!) then you’re in the same category yourself.  So am I.  There’s nothing wrong with this, I don’t think being slutty makes us bad people, and it certainly doesn’t legitimise reducing our social or legal rights.  jmho

I also don’t think that people are ‘asking for’ any kind of violence or assault if they are slutty.  Sluts have the right to say no.

Ray says:

05:27pm | 27/05/11

Jackie if you march for your reasons will you also march against ‘men who chase younger women being sexual perverts’ and ‘women chasing younger men being ‘cougars’ and ‘empowering’ them and other women. Thanks that would be great.

Dieter Moeckel says:

06:17pm | 27/05/11

Jackie - I can’t find a definition of stud to agree with you. Are we using colloquialisms? The word slut is derogatory is means slovenly or promiscuous woman. There that’s it and it carried a semantic meaning. Hence if you don’t want to be called a slut don’t be slovenly or overtly promiscuous. You can have sex as many and as often as you like but if you simply “fuck” then perhaps the appellation fits. You can’t just simply decide that a word that has a negative meaning needs to mean something positive. Why not change all the other derogatory words while you’re at it : promiscuous woman, prostitute, whore; informal tart, floozy, tramp, hooker, hustler; dated scarlet woman, loose woman, hussy, trollop; harlot, strumpet, wanton.

Lisa H. says:

02:19am | 28/05/11

How stupid, campaigning for the right to rut like mindless animals.

I thought the protest was against violence, let’s just go with that.
Not sure where the ‘slut’ comes into it, plenty of women are raped in the land of neck-to-ankle shrouds…. perhaps the ‘slut’ campaign would have more impact and do more good there?

Keep your dignity, if not your sexual and romantic values.

Fiona says:

10:05am | 28/05/11

What, some guys self serving, biased blog? He craps on about men requiring skill to sleep around. What about if he sleeps with the “sluts” at the pub? No real skill needed there,apparently.

BK says:

10:29pm | 27/05/11

As a bloke who tried to do the right thing by women by not sleeping around, I feel insulted by each and every slut. I cannot accept that I can’t sleep around, but women can.

Fiona says:

10:16am | 28/05/11

Also, what you think is flirtation, kissing etc may be interpreted totally differently.
Also safety for our boys too, many of your suggestions apply to them too. Advice re aggression in social situations is essential.

Sheridan says:

05:02pm | 28/05/11

I agree.. The word slut is an appalling word and any DECENT woman would NOT aspire to be one..

Ray says:

09:14am | 29/05/11

donMac, therein lies the metaphorical problem. You ARE a ‘less than species’, wishing to punch above your weight. I can understand that.

Septimus says:

05:23pm | 29/05/11

Women prefer ‘outrage’ before ‘common sense’ Nicola.

Dj says:

07:19pm | 29/05/11

Some women ARE sluts. If they are proud of flaunting the fact that they have loose morals and demand the right to attract sexual predators - even though they may be atrtacked, on their own head be it.
Rank stupidity.

Nicola says:

09:41pm | 29/05/11

I realise that yes there are loose women, but really guys aren’t disrespected in the same way for it. I mean you don’t really hear chicks shouting out of cars “manwhore” for being promiscuous or their arses grabbed and told that you know you want it (not saying that there aren’t women out there that do that, coz there probably is) but you hardly come across it. I guess what you’re getting at is the fact that there are some pretty unpleasant girls out there who can be pretty horrid to guys and other girls and don’t really care, but then there are also girls who are genuinely quite nice people, but because of a bad past or low self esteem sleep with a lot of people for some sort of comfort. It’s all messed up, but I guess judgement is made straight up from what you wear. It’s not right, but everyone does it to differing extents.

Dave says:

10:58am | 02/06/11

Female chauvinism is a less commonly used term used to describe the symmetrical attitude that women are superior to men. The term female chauvinism has been adopted by critics of some types or aspects of feminism; leading second-wave feminist Betty Friedan being a notable example.[4] Ariel Levy used the term in similar, but opposite sense in her book, Female Chauvinist Pigs, in which she argues that many young women in the United States and beyond are replicating male chauvinism and older misogynist stereotypes. Grow Up fools, we are nearly in recession with the figures up to date, and all this woman has to do is act like a child. What happen when,“Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will not harm me”, and we are paying dame good money for TURKEYS LIKE THIS…..