When UK expat and young mum Jessica Green stood up at her Australian citizenship ceremony at Sydney’s Petersham Town Hall a few weeks ago to sing the national anthem, something quite bizarre happened.

Oath, they're cute. Picture: AP

It didn’t have anything to do with her singing (although she says she hates singing). A few “suggested videos” popped up on the big screen near the new Aussie citizens when the YouTube clip playing the national anthem finished. One of which was the Nazi national anthem.

“Everyone was staring at it, like: are you serious?” Jessica laughs. “That was slightly awkward.”

Otherwise, she says, it was a really nice ceremony. People of all backgrounds, many dressed in green and gold and some draped in the Australian flag, pledged their allegiance to Australia. In ceremonies like this year-round, people who have successfully completed the mountains of paperwork and passed the test required to become a citizen take an oath of loyalty to Australia. And now a prominent Gillard Government minister has floated the idea of getting kids to take the same pledge of citizenship at school.

“American kids pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and all that it represents; so should Australian children know and understand our nation’s citizenship pledge,” the Social Inclusion Minister Tanya Plibersek said in a speech to the Sydney Institute, The Sydney Morning Herald reported yesterday.

Plibersek said the pledge people should know should be the same one taken by new immigrants like Jessica. At Petersham that day, Jessica pledged her fidelity to Australia, it’s laws, liberties and democratic values. All Australians should know that pledge, said Plibersek.

Some countries conduct oaths of loyalty in schools. Many US states encourage (and some require) kids to take a pledge of allegiance to “the flag of the United States of America” at school.

But what would - or should - an Aussie pledge of allegiance consist of? Should we even have one?

Some disagree with Plibersek. For instance, David Flint, the Emeritus Professor and national convenor of Australians for a Constitutional Monarchy, says a pledge for all Australians should be more like another Aussie oath of loyalty.

“We have an oath of allegiance which [Plibersek] pledged, swore and affirmed…The oath of allegiance to the Crown,” says Flint. “It should refer to the Queen and it should also refer to the flag.”

He says a pledge of allegiance shouldn’t just be to the monarchy, but to Australia’s fundamental institutions. And he makes it very clear what he thinks shouldn’t be included in a pledge.

“I don’t think it should refer to our indigenous heritage which has its place but it’s not central to the Commonwealth. It’s not one of the institutions of Australia.

“It should not be filled with the current fashion – multiculturalism is a current fashion – I think you just have to have a simple one,” he says. “Back in the 1900s they could have had a pledge to the White Australia policy, they didn’t, thankfully.”

Flint raises an important question: couldn’t a pledge exclude, instead of include? Plibersek says such patriotic gestures should be inclusive. At Cronulla a few years ago we saw patriotic symbols become the weapons of a small, angry, shirtless minority.

The “pledge of allegiance” has been a divisive issue in the United States, Associate Professor Brendon O’Connor from the United States Studies Centre at Sydney University points out.

During the 1988 presidential election campaign, the Massachusetts governor and Democratic candidate Michael Dukakis came under attack for vetoing a pledge of allegiance bill. Questions were raised as to whether Dukakis was patriotic enough to be president and whether he really “believed in the American flag”.

“[His opponent] George Bush Senior went to flag factories and suggested he was someone identified closely with the pledge and the flag,” says O’Connor.

“In many ways it was a jingoistic kind of argument about relative levels of patriotism, relative levels of commitment to American ideals. It was trying to portray Dukakis as not truly committed the US military and government.”

And it’s not just American political types who’ve come under attack for dissenting on the pledge.

Florida student Cameron Frazier refused to recite the pledge twice in his maths class in 2005. His teacher labelled him “un-American” and he was removed from his class. (Frazier then successfully sued the local school-board for $32,500). 

It’s clear that an Australian oath of loyalty could be used to unite—but it could be used just as easily to divide. So I asked someone who’s had a lot of experience with pledges what she thought of everyone joining her in taking the oath.

After eight years in Australia, much of that as a permanent resident, Jessica Green felt compelled to become a fully-fledged citizen when her bub Charlie joined her in the world as an Australian citizen not long ago. Jessica says the pledge she took was important.

“I guess it was quite nice doing it in that context, it was a meaningful occasion.”

“There’s a time and a place for everything – maybe for sporting events and other appropriate things,” she says. “But I’m not sure what the value would be doing it routinely, on a daily basis.”

What do you think?

131 comments

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    • Nathan says:

      06:20am | 29/09/11

      A pledge of allegiance every day in schools? No thank you, and certainly not to one that has anything to do with the queen who is not even a citizen of our country.

      If this is the tool they want to use to make people feel patriotic good luck. Surely as Australians we can see through this and realise there is no real value to it. I am a proud Australian but a pledge of allegiance is lame

    • acotrel says:

      06:36am | 29/09/11

      A bit of tokenism is always good stuff.  I wonder if David Hicks ever took the oath while a kid at school?  But it’s probably a bit rich to expect the kids to recite it each Monday, when some of our pollies often don’t work in the national interest.  But are mainly self serving in their indecent scramble to seize power, by fair means or foul !

    • Nathan says:

      06:50am | 29/09/11

      I just find it funny that Gillard is potentially trying to use a pledge of allegiance as a vote winner

    • Chris_D says:

      06:59am | 29/09/11

      @Nathan, a pledge in itself isn’t lame, it’s just a matter of finding the right words, that reflect a National pride in ourselves and what we have, and allows us to continue to re-affirm that we are lucky, happy and proud to be Australian and live in Australia.

    • Nathan says:

      07:17am | 29/09/11

      @ Chris_D
      How do you find the words when being Australian means different things to different people. Surely a national Anthem that hardly anyone knows the second verse to is enough. I am happy and proud to be Australian but that won’t change.

    • Chris_D says:

      07:57am | 29/09/11

      @Nathan, it’s easy mate, you find the words that means the same thing to most Australians. 

      Like I said, luck and priviledge spring to mind.  Telling us to be thankful for what we have wouldn’t hurt, reminding us that others before us made sacrifice to get us where we are today seems prudent and suggesting that we show respect to our Nation and fairness to the people within it wouldn’t go astray either.  Just a few ideas.

    • Bruce says:

      11:32am | 29/09/11

      Nathan. Agree with you. However, on the other hand, why not let them resite the pledge of allegiance each day. Bore them to death to the point where they can not remember what it is they have actually said. It will condition our kids for their future. Why not give them the pre-adult experience of giving mindless lip service. Much like many of those that attend church or lie in court. And who knows, prepare them the for politics, where lip service and lying on a grand scale is an art form.

    • acotrel says:

      11:48am | 29/09/11

      @Nathan
      It’s certainly no funnier than John Howard touting ‘Australian values’ while refusing to repudiate Pauline Hanson’s politics ! Then he went ahead and adopted his own version to captue votes from his ‘battlers’ using the same racist garbage as it’s basis.

    • neo says:

      11:53am | 29/09/11

      I think this is a grand idea for national spirit. Of course, we should pledge allegiance to AUSTRALIA, the country we live in, NOT the UK.

      This is a good step, but I think we need to become a republic first. Yes, it’s all just words and titles, but I think we need it for a true national identity. We need a President, one man or woman who will represent us on the global scale, and not a puppet like Kevin Rudd, someone we can be proud of, as Russia is proud of Putin, a true warrior in the classical sense.

    • acotrel says:

      01:40pm | 29/09/11

      ‘We need a President, one man or woman who will represent us on the global scale, and not a puppet like Kevin Rudd, someone we can be proud of, as Russia is proud of Putin, a true warrior in the classical sense.’

      YAY ! !  What about Tarzan’s offsider ?

    • neo says:

      04:01pm | 29/09/11

      I think I know what you mean acotrel, but care to explain anyway?

    • acotrel says:

      05:42pm | 29/09/11

      A big hairy monkey in budgie smugglers !

    • TChong says:

      06:23am | 29/09/11

      No !
      The link between patriotism and scoundrels is well known, and examples of this can be found right here at Punch whenever discussions about Islam and related issues are put up, = plenty of patriotic inspired intolerance , bigotry , fear and loathing can be found.
      This sudden push for an “oath” is equally a scoudrelish attempt to distract the punters from other issues.
      There is enough genuine love of our country, fom people of all political beliefs, from all walks of life, from all parts of society , to keep this nation one of the better parts of the world to live.
      We dont need the phoney hand on hearts ,die for the flag type BS that is so much part of US culture - where the link between patriotism and scoundrels
      - from gun toting militias to porn stars drape themselves in “Old Glory” and the hubris that goes with the jingoism.

    • Chris_D says:

      08:01am | 29/09/11

      TChong, I agree with your sentiment, but I believe that if we had an oath of allegiance that effectively united us with common sense and common goals for the common good, then it removes the extreme views of “patriotism” from the fringe groups.

    • Seanr says:

      09:00am | 29/09/11

      I’d say no as well Mr Chong, mandatory pledges are trite, I’d like to think we don’t need US like ‘hand on heart’ patriotism. Whilst we should certainly teach our kids to be proud to be Australian, I’d like to be more laidback in our patriotism approach.

      I don’t think it necessarily leads to jingoism but forcing someone to do this every morning is like the forced apology Facebook has issued or criminals who apologise to get reduced sentences…meaningless.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:49am | 29/09/11

      For your quotations library, TChong: “Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious”—Oscar Wilde.

    • TChong says:

      01:11pm | 29/09/11

      thanx St Mick
      Another cliché to overuse in my standard, ill informed , dangerouly lefty diatribes.

    • acotrel says:

      01:45pm | 29/09/11

      @Seanr
      ‘I’d say no as well Mr Chong, mandatory pledges are trite, I’d like to think we don’t need US like ‘hand on heart’ patriotism.’

      At keast the US acknowledges it’s multicultural heritage in the song ‘the star spangled banner’ - it goes -  ‘Jose, can you see ? ’

    • Kipling says:

      06:42am | 29/09/11

      I am, in part at least with Nathan on this one.

      Any pledge is ideally spontaneous, otherwise it truly lacks meaning. To enforce a pledge on children in schools is tantemount to brainwashing. The only protest one could make regarding this would be to not participate and then the non participant would be branded unpatriotic.

    • Chris_D says:

      08:03am | 29/09/11

      Kipling; so “brainwashing” children to have a sense of pride and patriotic duty in their country is a bad thing?

    • Sarah says:

      09:32am | 29/09/11

      Chris D. Yes. It is wrong. If someone tried to force my child to male a pledge i’d pull her out of school. Education not indoctrination!

    • dancan says:

      09:42am | 29/09/11

      @Chris - that sense of pride should come from something or worth such as positive action rather than hollow words

    • Kipling says:

      09:43am | 29/09/11

      I guess this is a serious question so the serious answer is yes.

      If the children need to be brainwashed into this rather than take the journey of self discovery then the country demonstrates little of itlself to have pride in or be patriotic to.

      You get that don’t you?

      If not, consider the idea that schools could also be used to brainwash children into left wing ideology that might make my point a bit clearer to you.

    • fml says:

      09:51am | 29/09/11

      Chris D,

      Yes. Patriotism clouds the mind. When you have a flag covering all the lines between personal advancement and nationalism are blurred. A example would be gerry harvey, if you dont buy his outrageously overpriced products from his store, you are un-australian and un-patriotic, it will be used by people to exploit the weak minded.

      Patriotism should be seen not as an outward expression of flag waving, placard carrying and mindless slogan chanting but rather as an inward expression of pride, hard work and love not just for the country but also all its inhabitants.

    • Chris_D says:

      10:49am | 29/09/11

      @Kipling & fml; the suggestion is to instill National pride in school children.  You have both taken it to an extreme, one of teaching political ideology and one about cynical consumer marketing.

    • marley says:

      06:54am | 29/09/11

      I like the non-religious version of the pledge for new citizens It means something to me because that’s the one I uttered when I became a citizen not so long ago.  But I don’t see that having school kids repeat it by rote in class or assembly would make it meaningful to them.  Teach kids the meaning of citizenship by all means, but forget pledges.

    • Nathan says:

      07:21am | 29/09/11

      Exactly, the children it starts with will grow to resent it

    • Chris_D says:

      08:13am | 29/09/11

      When i was in school we used to turn to face the Australian flag when it was raised every morning, and sign the National Anthem.  Today some people say that we should ditch the National Anthem because most people don’t even know the second verse.  I don’t resent learning/knowing the Australian National Anthem, but I do feel really sad that some think that not knowing the second verse is some kind of long running National in-joke.

    • Al says:

      09:11am | 29/09/11

      Chris_D:
      The realy funny thing with the National Anthem, there is actualy a 3rd verse but the vast majority have no idea it even exists.
      Most know the 2nd verse exists but don’t know what it says, the 3rd just doesn’t even register with the majority.

    • Peter says:

      11:53am | 29/09/11

      There is actually 5 verses (Y)

    • RamRod says:

      01:24pm | 29/09/11

      I pledged in primary school - but haven’t thought about it since. I didn’t grow to resent it - I think Nathan that your post is an over-exaggeration. Adults would resent it - children forget about it.

    • Al says:

      02:30pm | 29/09/11

      Peter: I wasn’t including the chorus as verses, but there may be more than 3, I am only aware of the 3 though.

    • Chris_D says:

      07:08am | 29/09/11

      One of the great underlying problems in Australian society is the general lack of apathy, followed closely by people who have their own idea/agenda of what it means to be Australian, and even more worrying, the ways and methods they choose to show their national “pride”.

      Having a simple affirmation of what it means to be Australian, something that reminds us that we are lucky and priviledged to be Australian and/or live in Australia, something that brings us all together under a united oath, should be considered a good and worthy way to find a common thread of National pride.

      I firmly believe that we need to find something that gives a clear and fair re-direction on what it means to be Australian.  Currently it is/has been hi-jacked by almost every group with any sort of agenda.

    • Rose says:

      10:40am | 29/09/11

      So, are we going with your idea of what it is to be Australian, David Hicks’, Gerry Harvey’s, Julia Gillard’s, Tony Abbott’s, the indigenous families of the outback, mine, that of the Muslim family down the street, that of my vegan , anarchist friends (please don’t say that one!) or that of any number of other Australians who inhabit this multi-cultural, secular, free nation.
      I don’t believe their is an allegiance that is gong to be inclusive of all and to try and create one is fraught with danger.
      Just teach kids a bit of Australian history, let them know where we came from, what we as a nation have endured and let them know the faults and failings of this nation. Teach them that despite some black spots we have a mostly harmonious, successful nation, one that is the envy of most of the world. Teach them that all Australians, regardless of their origin are important to the well being of this nation and that everyone is welcome to contribute to our future.Teach them that the price has been hard work and a sense of community and most importantly teach them that we need to keep working on maintaining the balance we have.
      Show them why we are proud Australians, DO NOT force feed some one else’s words down their throat, let them work out for themselves why they are proud to be Australian, just give them some background and context first to show them where they fit in our society.

    • Chris_D says:

      04:31pm | 29/09/11

      Rose, it could start with, “I am proud to be Australian”, and could go from there.  As I’ve said in other posts, it’s about being inclusive, and it’s for school children to grow up with an instilled sense of National pride, not to fill their heads with propoganda.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:26am | 29/09/11

      I love how this article buts right up against the article supporting Bolt’s right to free speech.

      If we have freedom of speech as a cultrual trait, that must by necessity include the right not to speak.

      If you don’t want your child (or if your child doesn’t want to) pledge allegiance, then they shouldn’t have to.  Given how that decision will be used to deride in a school environment, risk management suggests we should not be doing such a thing.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:27am | 29/09/11

      Another Americanism creeping into our way of life. A pledge said by rote will do nothing if you dont feel like an Australian, have Australian values and live an Australian way of life. Some communities live by their own rules and those rules take precedence over and above the laws of Australia. Until all peoples who live here live as Australians and abide by Australian laws then a pledge is just so many words that mean nothing.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      11:08am | 29/09/11

      Couldnt agree more, the pledge of allegiance has done nothing for America, immigrants, gangs no one cares apart from the conservative right as a tool to use against anyone who says anything bad about the country.

      Australia is fine as it is without another Americanism creeping in.

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      07:33am | 29/09/11

      I can vaguely remember saying something similar every week at school assembly. Any other old foggies like me remember the words?

    • Chris_D says:

      08:15am | 29/09/11

      Yes, it was called the National Anthem.

    • Kim says:

      11:04am | 29/09/11

      remember something like, “..... I love my country, i honour her queen… i promise to obey her laws…..”, in the days when we marched in from breaks to a drum beat, an stood on painted white dots in a grid, at assemblies. Fun stuff.

    • static says:

      12:26pm | 29/09/11

      It was.“I honour my God. I serve my queen. I salute my flag”.... Just horrid. Bout time we did the canadian thing,new flag and a gentle tug away from old blightys apron strings.

    • Snapdragon says:

      01:18pm | 29/09/11

      ” I love my country, I honour our flag. I am happy to belong to “whatever” State School”.

    • Carz says:

      05:52pm | 29/09/11

      I honour my God, I serve the Queen, I am loyal to my school and I salute the flag. My kids say it every week at assembly.

    • mick says:

      07:37am | 29/09/11

      God help us, I can hear it now.  Parents claiming the rights of their little darlings to ‘not participate’ and Australians in name only claiming racism and discrimination.

      The positive side of the argument is that we may be able to cement the nation as we now have many people who live here with no allegiance to their country other than lip service and it does worry me when I see groups in the community who would be happy to be able to set up their own state.  But mimicking a US style allegiance pledge…...don’t know.

    • Al says:

      08:37am | 29/09/11

      Mick, do you honestly think forcing people (adults or children) to recite a pledge of allegience will mean they are all doing ‘other than lip service’?
      People who pay lip service will simply pay lip service to any pledge. Its a bit like the traditional marrige vows of ‘till death do us part’, how many people actualy follow this rather than just paying lip service (just look at the divorce rates)?

    • fml says:

      09:57am | 29/09/11

      mick,

      How about something like,

      Speak the lingo, drink the beer, go to church or bugger off?

    • Peter says:

      08:42pm | 30/09/11

      “Australians in name only”

      Who are you to determine who is Australian?!!! You are not in a position to determine what makes an Australian, and if someone doesn’t want to participate, that’s their right!

    • NSW says:

      08:10am | 29/09/11

      What exactly would the children be pledging their allegiance to? The Union Jack? The queen? A constellation visible to the entirety of the southern hemisphere?

    • marley says:

      08:15am | 29/09/11

      For those who didn’t bother to check the citizenship pledge, here is the non-religious version:

      “From this time forward
      I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
      whose democratic beliefs I share,
      whose rights and liberties I respect, and
      whose laws I will uphold and obey.”

      Simple, neat and meaningful to those of us who have made a choice to become citizens.  I wouldn’t change a word of it because it captures the things that matter. 

      But I don’t see the point of having an enhanced version in the schools.

    • Bob Stewart says:

      08:16am | 29/09/11

      It is a hidden natural thing that wells up from deep inside when iuncalled for and I suspect it has its origins in the first few years after birth. My Uncle Sid, at Tobruk during the siege explained his “roots squirming inside him” when he heard the bagpipe from a far trench playing Waltzing Matilda in the erie quiet of the desert night..

      I led a little Anzac Day march in Manila , just 12 of us, from the Kangaroo Club ( indeed, where else, ?) to the Rizal Memorial with a single side drummer and our flag borrowed from the Australian Embassy and I knew then what Uncle Sid was referring to. A pride that comes from belonging., a deep and personal thing.

      So deep and personal that I cannot understand why anyone would ever run away from it to seek asylum ever after in a strange land instead of making the effort to turn their situation around. where they belong.

    • TugboatBen says:

      08:29am | 29/09/11

      I heard a radio interview yesterday where Tanya Plibersek expressly stated that she didn’t want to see kids in Australian schools have to stand up every day and recite the pledge. She simply said that if people becoming Australian citizens where already reciting the pledge at citizenship ceremonies, she thought the rest of the population should at least know what it says.

    • Daniel Piotrowski

      Daniel Piotrowski says:

      10:08am | 29/09/11

      Hey Ben,

      Yep, there was a story floating around about that.

      Here’s the transcript of what she said in the speech I was referring to.

      http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/love-of-australia-is-about-more-than-lifestyle-20110928-1kwfd.html

      “To see and hear new Australians become citizens is a wonderful thing – for these people are making a public commitment to Australia and accepting the responsibilities and privileges of citizenship.

      Every Australian should know the pledge.

      Every Australian child should learn it by heart and say it regularly at school.

      American kids pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and all that it represents; so should Australian children know and understand our nation’s citizenship pledge.

      Indeed all Australians should understand their rights and responsibilities as a citizen of our great nation.”

      Cheers.

    • Al says:

      08:33am | 29/09/11

      I hereby pledge to never allow any child of mine to be forced into reciting a pledge of allegience unless THEY choose to do so.
      I also pledge to never allow a child of mine to be forced into reciting a pledge that refers to allegience to Government, The Australian Way (whatever the hell that is) or the Monarchy.
      BTW - somehow despite not being born in Australia, I became a citizen without having to recite ANY pledge. May have something to do with not being able to speak since I was only 6 weeks old when I became a citizen.

    • marley says:

      10:14am | 29/09/11

      @Al - see what the actual pledge is (I posted it above).  I don’t particularly think kids need to recite it, but I wouldn’t have a problem with them being exposed to it. Would you?

    • Al says:

      10:29am | 29/09/11

      No problem with them being exposed to it, as long as they are not required to recite it as what happens then if they:
      Don’t share those democratic beliefs (such as hard core Monarchists as an example); or
      believe that the rights and liberties are not worthy of respect or are insufficent; or
      or believe many laws are either repressive or unenforceable due to breaching the constitution, shouldn’t they have a right to seek a change to these?

    • marley says:

      03:50pm | 29/09/11

      @Al - not 100% sure I get your point - are you saying that kids shouldn’t have to recite the pledge if they disagree with our democratic values, laws and rights or if they don’t think they’re sufficient? 

      Well, if the kids don’t agree with the basic democratic values or with rule of law or with respecting the rights of others, well, I guess we’ve got a more serious problem on our hands than whether or not to recite a pledge. 

      If, on the other hand, they don’t agree with the form our democracy takes, well surely, the exercise of democratic rights includes the right to convert from a monarchy to a republic when the majority so wills it.  And likewise, expressing opposition to, and ultimately changing oppressive laws would be part of our democratic values and of our human rights.

    • Al says:

      05:12pm | 29/09/11

      marley: my point is this.
      I, for one certainly don’t share a belief in the democratic system, however I can’t actualy offer a better alternative at this time. The main reason for this is the democratic system tends to pander to the ‘re-election’ and ignores many more benefical ideas and solutions (or in otherwords money is funneled to ‘pet’ projects).
      As for rights and liberties, well I can’t say I respect all of these either, as they are not applied consistently to every citizen, some have more rights and liberties than others.
      As for upholding and obeying laws, I simply refuse to obey a law that is unjust and will certainly not uphold it.
      And I would refuse to take such an oath as I refuse to knowingly lie or present falsehoods, my own personal choice, and yes it has gotten me into trouble MANY times. (How many times do I tell people, if you don’t want an honest answer don’t ask me.)

    • marley says:

      09:11pm | 29/09/11

      @Al - oh well, I guess we see things differently.

      I’ve lived in quite a few places, and while I have issues with the democratic system we have here, I can’t honestly say I’ve seen a better system. And the fundamental point, that of believing in democracy, well, I go along with it. I sure as hell don’t want to go back to the Warsaw Pact.

      Rights?  People have basic rights and all people should have those same rights - access to education, freedom of speech, equality before the law, presumption of innocence, freedom of (and from) religion, etc.  Argue and negotiate for the rest.

      The law?  Some laws are unjust.  Change them, don’t flout them.  Incarcerating pedophiles is probably unjust from the pedophile’s point of view, but too bad.  Society has to have rules to function. At least in democracies, we get to negotiate the rules.

      I guess for me the pledge is a nice balance of individual rights and the rights of the larger society.  So for me, it works, and I had no hesitation in taking it when I became a citizen.  If you don’t agree with it, that’s your right.

    • Ben says:

      04:51pm | 30/09/11

      @Al
      Your criticisms seem to be of the Westminster/Washminster system(s) of government rather than with democracy itself.

      Other systems (perhaps better systems) exist. A good example is Switzerland’s cantonal system. I’m not convinced that there is a problem with our system of government though, I think our issue probably relates more to a lack of leadership and vision.

      For all that I disagree with much of his views I think the only leader we have ever had that even approaches being described as visionary was Keating.

    • Adam says:

      08:35am | 29/09/11

      Does anybody remember when the National Anthem stopped being sung at a weekly school assembly in Australia? I remember doing it all the way up until 1992 or so, but cannot remember it after that. I never thought that doing it was by rote, or lame, or anything (I guess I was too young to think about such things, or perhaps it was just a different time). Perhaps even just singing the national anthem once a week, or even once a fortnight, at a school assembly (even just during primary school perhaps?) would be a benefit to teach kids even just the basics of Australian political history. Because lets be honest, when only about 50% of 18 year olds are registered to vote, due to huge amounts of apathy towards government, anything to increase civic interest and virtue couldn’t be a bad thing, right?

    • MD says:

      08:54am | 29/09/11

      I finished school in 2007 and we still sang it every week, it must depend on the school.

    • Ben C says:

      09:50am | 29/09/11

      @ Adam

      I remember when I was in year 11 and 12 (back in 2001 and 2002), we were required to sing the National Anthem during assemblies. If she felt we weren’t singing with enough pride, she would stop the track and make us start again.

      Could never fault my principal on the issue of patriotism.

    • centurion48 says:

      10:09am | 29/09/11

      When I was a child at school (umpteen decades ago) we sang the Song of Australia, not the National Anthem (which was God Save The Queen). That changed when GSTQ was ditched for the Australian National Anthem.
      I attend citizenship ceremonies every month and there has obviously been an instruction issued to ‘encourage’ citizens to re-affirm the pledge. I think it is BS.
      If you want to show pride in being an Australian then:
      - pay your taxes
      - serve on a jury if you are called
      - don’t work for cash & don’t hire somebody who does
      - serve in the Defence Force (regular or reserve), or your local SES, RFS, CFS, etc
      - look out for your neighbours’ welfare
      - understand the issues and vote at local, state & government elections
      - don’t litter
      - don’t graffiti
      - don’t be a social nuisance

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      11:13am | 29/09/11

      Yea every Friday at school assembly we did, that was till 2003 when I left

    • Jane2 says:

      08:53am | 29/09/11

      In teh 1980’s I had to pledge everyday

      “I pledge allegence to the flag and the country it presents. I promise to chaeerful obey my parents, the teachers and the law”

      This was a public school. When did thsi practise stop?

    • Anna C says:

      11:02am | 29/09/11

      I went to a public school in Sydney in the 70’s and 80’s and we never pledged allegiance to anything. But we did have to sing our national anthem at our weekly assembly though. No one ever knew the words to the second verse.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      09:05am | 29/09/11

      Here we go again! More Amercia-inspired nonsense!
      We’ve lasted, quite successfully, for over 200 years without this sort of charade so why do we even think of taking it on now?
      Despite their hand-on-heart soap opera acts they, the USA) still have had & will continue to have, American Citizens who will betray their country.

    • Bob Stewart, the same says:

      11:15am | 29/09/11

      Yes, Rob, far better and more important methinks to teach community values and role of law to the tween years in the Social Studies curriculum of the education system before a teen mindset.

      That is if more than 4000 cases through the Youth and Childrens Court in SA last year is any indication. Salute the flag, sing the National Anthem and a 10 yr old holds up a bus driver with a kife on Magill Rd last year and a teacher in a North Suburb school KO’d with a brick in the school yard, more than 20,000 calls to Drug Help Line last year.

      Sorry Your Majesty, you will have to wait.

    • Michael says:

      09:21am | 29/09/11

      Waste of time, money, effort etc.

      If its done once a day on Australia day or something of the such perhaps. Everyday would be a waste. Time is better spent actually teaching something.

    • Sara says:

      09:29am | 29/09/11

      I used to sing the first two verses of the Australian anthem up until I got to high school where they only did the first verse. It’s a shame. I can scarcely remember the second verse properly. I actually think it would be nice if we had a pledge to teach kids. Something that could be said on Australia Day, on ANZAC day, on Remembrance Day, any number of formal occasions.

    • amy says:

      10:23am | 29/09/11

      beneath our radiant southern cross
      we’ll toil with hearts and hands..
      to make this common wealth of ours
      renowned of all the lands
      for those whove come acorss the seas, we’ve boundless plains to share
      with couage let our hearts combines
      to advance australia fair

      wow, considering the last time I sung it was like 2 years ago (and I didnt even start singing the second verse since year 10)

      anyway..I dotn know, there somthing aobut an oath that makes me uncomfortable, especially when yoru getting kids to redcite it

    • Anna C says:

      10:49am | 29/09/11

      I’m not in favour of children having to pledge their allegiance at schools. This type of nationalism is foreign to us and is quite frankly UNAUSTRALIAN.

      What next is the government going to mandate that we all place our hands over our hearts when we sing the national anthem? This is not America Tanya. Wake up.

      Aren’t there more important issues that this government should be thinking about like solving the problem with our open borders rather than this crap?

    • flags, only $4.99 says:

      11:04am | 29/09/11

      Hear hear! This countries soul is being replaced by prepackaged American consumer patriotism.

    • marrickvillain says:

      10:55am | 29/09/11

      Having kids recite this stuff is pointless, because until they get some life experience under their belts they have no appreciation of what democratic freedom means.
      I say this having, a few years ago, made a decision to become self-employed. After a few months of this I realised just how amazingly free I was in Australia. I could do just about anything and the enormous apparatus that delivers Rule of Law was there to support my activities.
      I had some strictures within which to work, but an extraordinary range of choices.
      How can a kid even begin to appreciate that? And how will reciting a pledge saying “I agree with democracy” and civics lessons give them any experience of what it really means?

    • RyaN says:

      11:06am | 29/09/11

      I think the fact that everyone was Lebanese right up until the bombs started dropping in Lebanon then all of a sudden they were true blue Aussies is indicative of the disdain that a lot of “Australians” hold for their country.

      One thing is for certain, you wouldn’t be relying on these people to defend the country if push came to shove.

    • RB says:

      12:32pm | 29/09/11

      Agree 100% Ryan.I remember when that happened & myself & a few mates shaking our heads with discust but not surprise.I wouldnt expect anything else from certain minorities in this country.They are only interested in what they can take from this country & will never consider themselves Australian.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      01:43pm | 29/09/11

      @RB

      no matter what some minorities do they will never be ‘Australian’, im white Australian and even have it given to me cause im not Australian enough, although coming from uneducated bogans im fine with that.

      Most of my friends are minorities and love Australia but gets hard for them when they are constantly put down

    • RB says:

      03:39pm | 29/09/11

      Dont kid yourself Simon.When those bombs started falling, they couldnt become ‘Australian’ fast enough.Many of those you call ‘uneducated bogans’ i call realists who are seeing these parasitic minorities for what they are.And i am pretty sure these ’ bogans’ couldnt care less what you think of them either mate.And thats a good thing.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      04:00pm | 29/09/11

      At the end of the day, you have your opinion.

      And people like you are the reason im rarely friends with ‘Australians’, closed minded bigots really.

      But thanks for proving my point

    • RB says:

      04:15pm | 29/09/11

      The pleasure was all mine Simon.Truly.  smile

    • RyaN says:

      05:34pm | 29/09/11

      @SimonFromLakemba: Having immigrated here from Africa I have not had the same experience as you, just about every Australian I have ever met was friendly and other than a bit of banter they were straight up and down good people. I was happy to integrate, happier still to cast aside any other allegiances to any other country, was proud to become a citizen and am prouder today to call myself Australian. One thing I can guarantee, if the need arose, I would lay my life down to defend it.
      What you say is nothing but blatant racism on your part and the fact that you are rarely friends with Australians just goes to show the fact that you and you ilk don’t love this country or its people but would prefer to set up little enclaves like Lakemba of a representation of a country you left for whatever economic reason.
      Regardless, as a person of a different ethinic group calling Australians “bogans” and “closed minded bigots” is probably the most ironic thing I have read from a blatant racist.

    • RB says:

      07:46pm | 29/09/11

      RyaN.NAIL.HEAD.Take a bow mate, because you just summed it up perfectly.Personally, i am not surprised Simon is from Lakemba. That explains his attitude perfectly.

    • Monique says:

      09:20pm | 30/09/11

      You can talk about getting rid of dual citizenship, however these people are as Australian as you are.

      RB- “I wouldnt expect anything else from certain minorities in this country.”

      Certain minorities? What a joke. Not only are you obviously a bigot, but like most bigots, you don’t have the courage to identify said minorities. As for calling them parasitic minorities, you strike me as someone who is yearning for the White Australia policy.

    • RB says:

      10:19am | 01/10/11

      Monique, when i say certain minorities i will clarify:MUSLIM.Is that clear enough for you?You strike me as a typical bleeding heart multiculti supporter who lives with their head stuck up their butt so your opinion of me or others like me means as much as a fart in the wind. Now go & wipe those tears cupcake, you are sounding hysterical.

    • Monique says:

      11:51pm | 01/10/11

      RB- “Monique, when i say certain minorities i will clarify:MUSLIM.Is that clear enough for you?”

      What is clear is that you are an ignorant bigot. What is also clear is that you lack any courage.

      “You strike me as a typical bleeding heart multiculti supporter”

      Wow, what an insult. I would rather be a ’ bleeding heart multiculti supporter’, which is code for a decent human being, than a stupid bigot like you! BTW, learn how to spell. Multiculti?!!!

      ” who lives with their head stuck up their butt”

      LOL. You shouldn’t project. The only person with their head up their butt is you.

      “so your opinion of me or others like me means as much as a fart in the wind.”

      Yet you respond.

      “Now go & wipe those tears cupcake”

      You are disgusting. Are you in a relationship? I ask because I doubt any one would want you. Not only are you a disgusting bigot, and incredibly stupid, but you are also a nasty piece of work. Your parents must be ashamed of you.

      “you are sounding hysterical.”

      LOL

      No, I’m not hysterical, I just hate KKK white supremacists like you. Make no mistake about it, these Muslims you hate so much contribute much more to the country in a positive way than you ever could, apart from if you left. Supporting multiculturalism, being a ‘bleeding heart’ means I am a decent human being unlike you, and that you also reveal yourself to be a truly nasty human being is no surprise. You’re like all racists and white supremacists; stupid, cowardly, resorting to disgusting insults and abuse without hesitation, and an absolute embarrassment to your family and this country!

    • skepdad says:

      11:06am | 29/09/11

      Every one of us could draft a pledge that we’d be delighted to have every Australian child recite daily.  Problem is, none of us would draft the exact same pledge.  It would either have to be so generic as to be meaningless, or alienate half the country.

      I attended school in the USA for only two years in primary school and I can still (at 39) recite the Pledge of Allegiance by heart.  Something about that feels very wrong to me.

      We’ve seen where dogmatic patriotism leads us.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:41am | 29/09/11

      I’m a bit shocked at the attitude of the Liberal fanboys. Where is that uber-patriotism that was displayed during John Howard’s reign when he threatened to cut the cash unless schools flew the flag? So get out there and pitch one for the Queen, God bless her old soul…...

    • Nick says:

      11:45am | 29/09/11

      My children and I certainly will not be saying a pledge to any bleeding heart liberal propaganda like multiculturalism, diversity, or the sacredness and glory of the Aborigines. I’d rather turn my back on the flag than recite that crap.

    • Oliver says:

      12:12pm | 29/09/11

      Don’t let the door hit you on the way out o/

    • Oliver says:

      11:51am | 29/09/11

      Justifying an Australian pledge of allegiance using America as an example is completely misguided. Given their history of deep civil division (proclamation of independence, civil war), a pledge of allegiance would have been a very useful tool of propaganda.

      Here in Australia, the only way in which a pledge might be useful would be educating the kids if we ever get the guts to form a republic.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:55am | 29/09/11

      Simple fact is that taking the pledge of allegiance is a mainly American cultural phenomenon, and not relevant to Australia anymore than climbing into airplanes and kamikazi’ing into ships is relevant to Australia just because it was practiced in Japan in World War 2.

      America was founded on a rebellion against the UK.  They divested themselves of allegiance to the crown by force.  They instead had to commit to a system of government and nationalism that would withstand internal dispute.  Their pledge of allegiance reading is simply an affirmation to keep that system secure and going.

      It’s mainly there to keep a national sense of identity foremost.  Remember, Australia’s never had more than 7 independent states or 20 million people, whereas America was made up of 13 colonies to start with and has built up over 200 years to incorporate fifty of ‘em with 200 million.

      And America’s original design, which they still get pretty het up over if it’s challenged, was for a very weak central government with most legislative power in the hands of the individual states - “big government” is an American pejorative that brings that original design to mind, because historically America isn’t meant to have a big Federal government.  (Australia’s Federal Constitution was also written with an eye to this model, to such an extent that Barton, Griffiths and Kingsley’s corpses must be doing about 200 rpm given what the Commonwealth’s doing these days.)

    • jay-ded says:

      11:59am | 29/09/11

      Come on, most kids wouldn’t even know what the word “pledge” means let alone “allegiance”.  Hell, they probably couldn’t even pronounce it properly or even spell it!

    • MikeS says:

      12:04pm | 29/09/11

      I think a song would be better.

      The Late Show has a good one back in ‘92.

      Australia you’re so fine,
      You’re so fine you blow my mind,
      Australia (clap clap…. clap)
      Australia (clap clap…. clap)

      Mick Molloy you genius

    • Nafe says:

      12:13pm | 29/09/11

      Not a fan of a Pledge, let the Yanks keep it, same as a bill of rights and a republic, not needed and not wanted

    • Al says:

      12:42pm | 29/09/11

      I don’t know if we can say a ‘bill of rights’ is not needed or wanted, considering the number of supposed freedoms (but not guranteed, remember no bill of rights) that have been reduced or removed by governments over the years (both Liberal and Labour).
      Perhaps a re-word in that YOU don’t think they are needed and YOU don’t want them.

    • shinydonkey says:

      12:20pm | 29/09/11

      i love god and my country
      i honour the flag
      i serve the queen
      and cheerfully obey my parents, teachers and the law . . .

      1,2,3 . . . god save our gracious queen .  . . .

      1983 - public school.  I can rattle off this quasi-religious, imperial, nationalistic brainwashing.  Fortunately I had little idea what the actual words were and for the better part of a year (until I saw it in print) I thought it had something to do with the queen ‘flea-obeying’ my parents.  WTF,  thought I - the queen didn’t know my parents.

    • Aussie Born and Bred says:

      12:39pm | 29/09/11

      “...some draped in the Australian flag…”

      OUR FLAG IS NOT A F***ING CAPE!!! 

      Show some bloody RESPECT people!!

    • shinydonkey says:

      01:04pm | 29/09/11

      Nor is it a curtain.  There’s a mosque/islamic centre in a neighbourhood adjoining mine.  Across the road is some fairly scruffy housing commission and I kid you not - each window is bedecked in the blue ensign.  That’ll show ‘em !!

    • NSW says:

      01:31pm | 29/09/11

      Bogan alert!

      Mate I wouldn’t even use the flag as a bathmat. It has a union Jack and a constellation that has no relevance to our country at all.

    • Kika says:

      01:44pm | 29/09/11

      We all want to be Olympians… Try hard wannabes… I hate it.  It’s commonly known as the ‘Cronulla Cape’.

    • Richard Brinkman says:

      12:40pm | 29/09/11

      Us kids at state school in the fifties stood around every Monday morning pledging allegiance to God, Queen and Country.  It didn’t do much for me. I’ve turned out to be an atheist, republican ratbag.

    • Gordon says:

      12:46pm | 29/09/11

      Oh for God’s sake! We want LESS jingoistic bullshit, not more. If there is one useful idea of “Australia” it’s as a safe haven from tub-thumping flagwaving morons trying to rope us in to whatever they decide is the correct way to think. Left Right Green Red & Blue; they can all piss off.

    • SLF says:

      01:03pm | 29/09/11

      Interersting article, especially as I took my citizenship test this morning..

      I am not sure a pledge everyday is necessary, however it couldn’t hurt if people knew more about the history, roles of government/institutions and people’s obligations as citizens.

      I tested my colleagues on the various questions asked in the test and it is a little worrying how little many Australians know about the history of the country, the role of various institutions and the responsibilities they have as citizens.

      Maybe there is some work to do to remind people exactly what the country offers and the benefits of being a citizen of Australia. It couldn’t hurt.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      01:47pm | 29/09/11

      Have to agree there, more needs to be done on the people and certain events that have happened in Australia without being to partriotic about it.

    • DougB says:

      01:07pm | 29/09/11

      More American BS. Frankly we should start shipping a lot of it back.
      Teach the kids about Australian History and the ordinary people who have done extraordinary things in life and on our land. That would be time better spent.
      How many know what a “Drover” was or is and what sort of life they led?
      How many now know of the Duracks, Morant, Simpson etc?

    • Steve says:

      01:45pm | 29/09/11

      If we go back to the original proposal by Plibersek, the pledge would have nothing to do with the queen or the flag and it wouldn’t be a daily event.
      The only problem with a pledge is that people like David Fint and Alan Jones would want to put their own flavour into it and disenfranchise half the population.

      Read the citizenship pledge that all naturalised Australians recite and I think you would have a different opinion.

    • Warwick says:

      02:04pm | 29/09/11

      I wonder how many people have a large emotional investment in the idea that Australia is “the best country in the world.”

      I wonder what criteria one would use to make this judgement? Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech?
      Head of state residing in the country?
      Contribution to popular culture of the world?
      Contribution to the high culture of the world?
      Number of scientific and technical discoveries in relation to the population size?
      Dramatic mountain, lake and river attributes?

      When it comes to last criterion it is obvious that New Zealand and Switzerland, to say nothing of the USA, are miles ahead.
      And when we put our contribution to the world’s popular culture alongside that from the USA and Great Britain…

      Often, what people mean when they say that this is “the best country in the world” is that they feel more at home, and relaxed, here than they imagine they would anywhere else. This is just a projection of their insularity.

    • marley says:

      09:00pm | 29/09/11

      Australia might not be the best country in the world, but it’s pretty damned good.  That’s the point (And as to your last criterion, Canada wins hands down over any of the three you’ve named. Not that I’m biased, of course).

    • MikeS says:

      02:09pm | 29/09/11

      Under the Southern Cross I stand,
      A sprig of Wattle in my hand,
      A Native of my Native Land,
      Australia, You Fu**king Beauty

    • Aitch B says:

      03:09pm | 29/09/11

      @MikeS

      I’ve usually heard it as “A can of [insert XXXX, Fosters, VB, Carlton, Melbourne, Tooheys, Emu, Coopers, West End, etc.] in my hand”

      smile:)

    • MikeS says:

      03:30pm | 29/09/11

      My one is for the kiddies Aitch B.

      This is about having it for schools after all. We would’nt want to promote under-age drinking would we.

      Or would we?

    • St. Michael says:

      03:43pm | 29/09/11

      You can almost touch the ocean
      Shimmering in the distant haze
      As you stand here on the mountain
      On this loveliest day of days
      Round half the world you’ve drifted
      Left no wild oats unsown
      But now your view has shifted
      And you think you’ve just come home

      And you’re drowning in the sunshine
      As it pours down from the sky
      And there’s something stirring in your heart
      Bright colours fill your eyes
      As from here to the far horizon
      Your beauty does unfold
      And oh you look so lovely
      Dressed in green and gold.

      To the homeless and the hungry
      May we always open doors
      May the restless and the weary
      Find safe harbour on our shores
      May she always be our dreamtime land
      Our spirits’ glad release
      May she always be our shelter
      May we always live in peace.

      —Eric Bogle, not me.

    • Ben C says:

      04:07pm | 29/09/11

      That’s a pledge I’ll be happy to recite everyday.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:52pm | 29/09/11

      @Aitch B Coopers, since it is the only one mentioned that is still Australian.

    • Occam's Blunt Razor says:

      02:24pm | 29/09/11

      I hesitate to use the term but this is an Un-Australian proposal.

      One of our greatest cultural strengths is a lack of militant nationalism.

      I’d rather see dual citizenship made illegsl before a pledge.

    • Tim Firth says:

      02:32pm | 29/09/11

      I think it’s entirely healthy for our society NOT to engage in jingoistic BS and maintain our famous non-caring attitude to political issues, politicians and patriotism. The people that care invariably have problems down the track, what with civil wars, revolutions and riots, there’s hardly enough time to herd the kiddies before the picture of the Great Leader and start the chant. However, I do agree that there is a need for civics lessons so kids know how the nation is governed and why.

    • Tim Firth says:

      02:32pm | 29/09/11

      I think it’s entirely healthy for our society NOT to engage in jingoistic BS and maintain our famous non-caring attitude to political issues, politicians and patriotism. The people that care invariably have problems down the track, what with civil wars, revolutions and riots, there’s hardly enough time to herd the kiddies before the picture of the Great Leader and start the chant. However, I do agree that there is a need for civics lessons so kids know how the nation is governed and why.

    • DT The Dirt Tin says:

      02:37pm | 29/09/11

      we should pledge allegiance only to the tuck shop at schools and later to toilets at schools.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:42pm | 29/09/11

      Jingoistic claptrap.

      There is no such thing as an actual Australian except under the 1949 statutory citizenship declaration - talk about ridiculous.

      And this from a minister silent on the jailing here of innocent children for daring to seek asylum.

    • Shafeel Sahaaly says:

      04:32pm | 29/09/11

      How refreshing it is to find fellow peoples who see through Ms Plibersek’s overtly political stunt. What about a binding pledge of truth by the pollies? It would encompass a committment to tell the truth at least some of the time(lets be serious). Furthermore, the public could acknowledge that we are secretly jealous of their achievement ( I mean its not a bad deal for most of them. Then we could come to a pact. Okay so this ones related to reelection, so Muslim’s sorry in advance, but its going to sting because, well, you have the wrong faith for this society but generally we like your sweets so welcome! But you will be the whipping boy. Just tell the truth occasionally, we can handle it, Tanya you lucky b—-ch!

    • Julan says:

      02:52pm | 29/09/11

      If we had a pledge of allegiance to our planet, it’s peoples, other life and the ecosystem we need to sustain us then I would most likely be in favour of such a move

    • Al says:

      03:06pm | 29/09/11

      So you are going to pledge allegiance to the Cockroaches, Ebola Viruses, Cold and Flu viruses etc of the world?
      Stuff that, I am happy to destroy such life whenever I come across it.

    • Oliver says:

      03:32pm | 29/09/11

      Why bother when we see how our government treats the concepts of pledge, commitment, promise etc.?

    • Brad Coward says:

      04:45pm | 29/09/11

      You couldn’t really, could you ?  Aren’t displays of nationalism frowned on by the left ?  Surely it would go against someone’s religious beliefs.

    • stephen says:

      06:43pm | 29/09/11

      “I promise to listen to my teacher, not talk in class out of turn, and to do my homework “
      That’s a pretty good oath, and anything else is only taking up time.

    • TheRealDave says:

      08:07pm | 29/09/11

      A resounding ‘Hell No’ from me. This is nothing more than Conservative Bible bashing seppo crap that has no place in this country - ever. We Aussies used to pride ourselves with our laid back nationalism. We used to sit back and laugh at Seppo’s and their hand over their hearts overt crap, Poms and their God Save the Queen and the rest of those Euro’s and their ‘quaint’ medieval traditions.

      I don’t know what schools some of you went to, but I never once had to recite any pledge…and I went to bush Army ‘village’ schools in the 70’s and 80’s, State Schools, Catholic schools.

      Somewhere along the way over they last 20 years this bogan nationalism has been allowed to infect this country like a disease. Aussie Aussie Aussie chants, southern cross tats on necks, wearing the flag as a cape, f-off we’re full signs…and now this ‘pledge of allegiance’ crap.

      I don’t need to pledge allegiance to an Australian Flag every day to be ab Aussie, nor does my family. This kind of crap is only for the vain self absorbed morons who want to be SEEN to be doing it. Plibersek deserves to be publicly castigated from bringing this crap up.

    • JackAlison says:

      11:06pm | 29/09/11

      There is nothing wrong with love of country. There is everything wrong with nationalism. This very divisive time in politics where refugees and certain minority groups are reviled in a such a disgraceful way illustrates a country?! that has not grown up. We have never cut the apron strings of superior powers such as the UK and now the USA. I wonder whether Australia will ever have the maturity to ponder its own potential and destiny. In the present political climate I highly doubt that possible.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      12:00am | 30/09/11

      Hi Daniel,

      It may not be such a bad idea after all!!  However, in my personal opinion it is so much better to have true respect, loyalty & some kind of connection to the the country we live in as well keeping our true identity!!  Because no one can actually be forced to love & respect something!!  It should happen naturally anyway!!  And it often does, in my own personal experience!!

      Just like always actions speak louder than words!!  Taking a pledge of allegiance does not always guarantee that all those young kids become good citizens anyway!!  Instilling basic knowledge rights & wrongs as well as good morals & social skills somehow seem much more important!!  Best regards to your editors.

    • RyaN says:

      09:12am | 30/09/11

      From the comments one can see that the left don’t trust the right who don’t trust the left enough to implement something like this without injecting their own little agenda.
      So sad!

    • Rishin says:

      10:47am | 07/02/12

      Actually, I think I was pretty clear that group recitation in and of itself can be a very compelling reason.This post is based on a real incident involving a local citizen’s child who had “both the strength of their convictions to stand firm and the poise, even when emotionally assailed, to do so without rancor or upset.”The teacher he was dealing with hit the wall when the student tried to exercise his right to not make the pledge (because of the “God” clause, I believe).  Very serious threats were made against the child – totally unacceptable in the land of the free.I’ll stick by what I originally said “It is a hollow affirmation that must be compelled.”

 

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From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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