Should successful athletes have to pay back the AIS?

R says:

06:09pm | 18/11/09

I believe that’s a great idea that they pay back the AIS, tax payers shouldn’t have to fund sport! The AIS could reinvest in future athletes with these repayments by past AIS sportsmen and women.

Claire says:

02:42pm | 11/06/09

The percentage of athletes who go on to win gold medals and gain big endorsements is very small. More than anything else, choosing to be an elite athlete is choosing to live a live of asceticism and sacrifice. Even winning a gold medal will not set one up for life.

Only someone who has never trained seriously would consider that atheletes need to pay back funding. To become an athlete means to sacrifice a full-time job in order to make up the hours in training. This means struggling to support oneself and one’s family.

This whole debate is just another example of tall-poppy syndrome.

iansand says:

12:14pm | 11/06/09

Successful athletes should have to repay the cost of their training.  Or they can amortise it by passing on their accumulated experience to the current crop of trainees by spending a few weeks a year coaching at AIS.

Scotty says:

07:06am | 11/06/09

Why not have a system similar to HECS, with the condition that the grants are repaid once they earn more than $100,000 per year or maybe $1,000,000 over 5 years or something like that.  If they don’t make it to the top and are forced to change careers then they don’t pay it back.
That way you won’t discourage people from striving to achieve, but you also have some more money coming back to spend on future generations.

Surely the like of Steph Rice etc are making plenty of money from endorsements now that the AIS has helped them along.  Its only fair that they give some of it back.

jen says:

02:31am | 11/06/09

Of course they should contribute to the country that supported them, not only the AIS, but with government support for general education, hospitals, medical staff, etc.
All of us who can contribute should, because public spending benefits all of us (nurses, police, fire brigades, parks & gardens are just some examples). And those who can contribute more should be happy to do so, because they have been given opportunities that would not have been available to them as individuals.
It is ironis that so many Australian sporting heroes (Rafter, Cash, Norman, Hewitt, etc) are so keen to become role models by moving overseas.

Killer Brisbane says:

11:24pm | 10/06/09

For 60 years I have been a sports nut, playing a number of sports and being involved as a coach, manager, parent and club official.  I would like to see a greater spread of of sports funds to involve the whole community and not just the elite.  The cream always rises to the top and they will be well compensated for their results.  I can remember what we used to think of the the “super” atheletes turned out by the East Germans and certain iron curtain regimes.  One of them was famous for turning out souped up weight lifters.  Wasn’t impressed when I learned that the AIS was sending ours there.  Not to sure that any of the product of the AIS is any different to that of the old communist cheats.

Patrick Gerry says:

09:55pm | 10/06/09

You forgotten to mention that professionals repay their training through HECS. Why not manage all athletes and take the 10% or so that their managers receive as their form of HECS. Only do it for, say 3 - years then they can go earn what they like. It’ll pay back their sports tenfold and keep the benefits that sportspeople provide to the community. While you at it, remove the AFL, NRL Cricket, Tennis and ARU out of the AIS - they already have profesional bodies and filthy rich sports stars. How do I know - I consult to them all!

John says:

09:47pm | 10/06/09

So what is your position, Minister? You have taken the gutless option of stating both extreme positions without claiming either. What a disgraceful kite-flying exercise. Where is your public vision and personal convictions ?

I’m fine to debate a HECS-style system, but it will only hurt the athletes (and sports) at the bottom and middle of the financial reward scale. The rich ones probably find ways to pay virtually no tax in Australia anyway…

The reality is that the politicians want to be photographed with the highest paid and highest profile athletes. I could name dozens of athletes that don’t get the financial support or professional remuneration because their sport is not “sexy” to the media or, coincidentally, the politicians.

Dunnit says:

08:36pm | 10/06/09

I started in the country and had to climb all the levels to achieve representative status. All my costs through Juniors were met by my parents who were struggling farmers with seven kids. I then had to support myself through tertiary education and what ever else it took to become a professional sportsperson and national representative. I did not receive government help, paid my tax, and am now retired. I also worked in a field that had quite a bit of contact with attendees of the AIS. I saw it as wrong that certain sports were seen as elitist and funded and the others had to struggle for funding. The example being the grossly overinflated swimming budget. Yes it should be paid back in the same way as the HECS scheme demands and to go one step further I believe that this should be so when the income is over the threshold whether sport related income or not!

Albert Ross says:

08:20pm | 10/06/09

Ultimately these sports “stars” are only entertainers.
Yes, they should return taxpayers money within a few years of completing their “training”.
Besides that, I don’t really want some of these arrogant spoiled brats representing me or this country.
Keep up the entertainment though, we can all do with a laugh at some of their antics.
I’d rather free education for our doctors, engineers, architects, teachers, etc. At least they contribute to the betterment of Australia

SM says:

08:03pm | 10/06/09

Why doesnt Kate Ellis just make a decision and live with it?

realist says:

06:10pm | 10/06/09

Yes, those who gained their success from the investment of the australian tax payer should be compelled to return some part of it back. say 10% of every dollar over $600,000 they earn each year. %5 going into a trust fund which they could conceivably try to claim back if they ran into financial trouble in their later years. And the other 5% going straight to the AIS.

Felix says:

04:58pm | 10/06/09

Would-be sports starts don’t do it for Australia per se. They do it for the fame, glory and the commercial bonuses they get for endorsing products if/when they win a gold in something. Let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that money is not a motive here. Why should the taxpayers fund this “luxury” when taxpayer money is needed so desperately in eg. public hospitals etc. It is a perverse and perpetuating theory that the government needs to encourage this. Better to spend the money encouraging more Australians to take up a get-fit regime and reduce obesity costing the taxpayers squillions in health costs. Spend the money on encouraging those couch potatoes to improve their diets and do some regular gentle exercise. Improving the health of Australians should be a more important objective than pandering to those who seek fame and fortune in the sports arena. Those who are dedicated and willing to make the sacrifices with the glimpse of hope they’ll become a someone eg. “sports star” similar to “rock star” in status. Time this changes and luxuries are given the back seat and more important priorities are put on the table.

Peter says:

04:57pm | 10/06/09

This is quite a simple issue. The AIS and it’s parent, the Australian Sports Commission has looked quite closely - at least twice - at introducing some sort of HECs or payback scheme for athetes who earn a lot of money out of sport.  You may be surprised to know that over a 20 year period, that added up to a couple of dozen, out of the thousands of athletes who went through the Institute.  The cost of administering the scheme would far outway any money recouped. End of discussion.

Realist says:

04:50pm | 10/06/09

A HECS style system would be unlikely to create sufficient revenue streams required to sustain sports bodies like the AIS at their current high standards.
Sure our government could hit up the few athletes who medal and secure endorsements.
But don’t forget that there aren’t that many of them.
It’s hardly the pot o’ gold at the end of the Olympics rainbow.
If we are going to be real about this we have to acknowledge up front that it costs money to compete in and win during global competitions.
Australia has traditionally fielded strong teams at the Olympic Games and their competitive spirit is an important part of the fabric of our nation.
So where will the money come for this type of sporting endeavour in the future - taxpayers? Media owners who bid for Olympic broadcast rights and earn huge revenue from advertising? Healthy food sponsors? Perhaps junk food and fast food manufacturers should help pay!
I think many of us believe in backing our Olympic heroes and paying to develop their skills so they can stride the global arena.
They are role models for our children so they can be encouraged to be active and healthy.
They contribute in so many other ways that don’t involve HECS but their contribution is importand to our broader community.
They help connect us in real ways to the rest of our world.
They give the best part of their young lives to our country and community and in part they teach us all - it’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game…still it’s great to reach for excellence.

Stan says:

04:31pm | 10/06/09

I’ll go as far as to say that public money for education and training should only go on occupations that benefit society as a whole ie Uni, trades, arts etc. Sport should be a passtime for people to participate in for fun, social and health reasons and some entertainment. If people want to make a career from sports be it on their own back so pubic money can be better put to use. Civilisation has not advanced to this point on the back of an overpaid swimmer or a football player, its has come from hard work, education and inovation.

Dennis says:

04:29pm | 10/06/09

I have long supported a competitive athlete HECS that kicks in whence an income level rather than a prize is achieved.  Gold medal water polo team members represent Australia just as valiantly as swimmers but swimmers will gain the commercial sponsorship opportunities to give them high incomes where they can afford to reimburse the public purse for the expense of taxpayers’ subsidies for their training, and travel.  i reject it is a “politics of envy” approach - it is an equitable reimbursement in the context that HECS has to be repaid by early childhood educators, for instance, who will rarely earn above average weekly earnings.

Inigo Montoya says:

04:27pm | 10/06/09

“Literally.” You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Dean says:

03:55pm | 10/06/09

Yes, they should certainly pay public money back as in HECS style payments.. The stars that do become leaders in their field have no problem dumping Australia claiming they’re taxed too high eg. Greg Norman, Lleyton Hewitt, Pat Cash - make their fortune then move overseas to spend it… it’s disgusting public money is spent on ANY sports event while there is still poverty in Australia..

Susan says:

03:40pm | 10/06/09

@LJ: An awful lot of those university degrees those Olympians were studying for were on sports scholarships. I never understood why my university had so many - except for the fact that the sportspeople look good in the glossy brochures promoting the uni.

I’m of the opinion that there should be a HECS-style system, but it should apply explicitly to the earnings that are based on said training - so if you never win that gold medal or get loads of endorsement money you don’t repay anything. It would be unfair to ask for any reimbursement from earnings in whatever job they take when they’ve finished playing sport.

There are just too many other, more purposeful things that are of use to the wider community that the money could be spent on to let it all go without attempting to get some back.

Matt says:

03:11pm | 10/06/09

Why not? A gradual repayment of a % of whatever money has been spent on them via the AIS would be similar to the way Uni students repay their professional success which came about via taxpayer funded Uni degrees?

Stan says:

02:59pm | 10/06/09

Most definitely.

kyle says:

02:49pm | 10/06/09

yes they should.. it should be like a HECS fee

Jo says:

02:40pm | 10/06/09

Richard said:  What most people seem to fail to recognise is that people study at Uni for a profession they stay in for a lifetime and continue to rise in the field over up to 40 years paying back fees. 
WRONG - maybe 40 years ago but not anymore.  Most people have four or five different careers through their lifetime now - and each may involve studying…and therefore the academic debt that accompanies the study.
 
I am all in favour of having an AIS but would like to see some sort of HECS equivalent.  These athletes not only get top 1:1 training, they receive top class health care, accomodation, food etc etc. 

Athletes CHOOSE to participate in their sport usually from a very early age.  Their parents fund their interest if not hoping that their child has some innate ability and will be the cream that “rises to the top”, at the very least that the child will be involved with a healthy past-time. 

But why is sport different to other “innate” abilities.

The arts community is funded in a similar way to the funding of the sports community - grants sought for worthy reasons - an upgrade of a sports ground canteen, some music or choir stands for a local choir.  Individual grants are few and far between and certainly not in the same league as what sports stars receive in the way of public funding.

Why should people like Hugh Jackman and Cate Blanchett have to pay HECS on the tertiary training provided to improve their natural ability while someone like Stephanie Rice returns nothing to the public purse?  THe same public purse that needs help to battle a global financial crises, a health system that is spiralling out of control, an education system that is underfunded or even the constantly increasing menace of obesity.

And why should doctors, teachers, nurses, and the like have to pay for their education, contributing along with their annual tax when elite athletes do not? 

It IS un-Australian…it is un-Australian not to treat every one the same.

LJ says:

02:32pm | 10/06/09

Geoff is absolutely right. Universities give full scholarships to the most academic students and the rest pay….. just like the AIS and state sporting institutes and academies. In fact the majority of athletes in state institutes and academies pay their own training fee’s and cover their own expenses. They recieve support services such as sports science and strength training but have to make financial sacrifices. The majority of our Athens Olympic team…..2 thirds I think, had finished or were studying at degree level on top of their extremely busy training and competition schedules. Asking elite athletes to pay back the money invested in them would be like asking any one of us to pay back our employers because they payed for our up-skilling and learning & development to make us better at whatever we do. Also remember that the very few elite athletes that do earn enough money from their sport to live off also pay tax just like the rest of us….and their own super. These elite athletes put Australia on the map and we should be grateful.

Keith says:

01:59pm | 10/06/09

The AIS is another trough for administrators, this time wearing shorts and sweatbands. The athletes are just the cookies turned out by this factory. Our Olympic effort as measured by medals could be achieved with a quarter of the AIS enrolment. Elite sport is a PR campaign, and it should be run as a PR campaign. Invest the minium you can to get the return you need ,and self-fund if possible. In this case self-funding (ie athletes pay back the cost of their course) ispossible and neccessary. Elite sports performers don’t encourage physical activity in the community as a whole - those who believe they can emulate elite athletes are generally young, niave and deluded, or their parents. For every successful athlete a thousand have failure stamped on their forehead. Rethink the role of sport in our society, toss out AIS and elite sport funding.

Geoff says:

01:50pm | 10/06/09

Comparing uni with AIS is like comparing apples with oranges. Josh hit the nail on the head, they’re AIS scholarships. That means they are the best at what they do and the AIS give the scholarships sparingly. Compared with uni, you have tens of thousands of moderately smart people. There are the top few at university who are the best at what they do and they also receive scholarships just like AIS athletes. To make a similar system to HECS in the AIS, it would also have to be opened up just as it is at university, open to those with moderate ability. It works both ways.

Jacqui says:

01:26pm | 10/06/09

Last week I attended Round 4 of the Year 9 Queensland Debating Union Competition where this was the actual topic. The model proposed by the team in favour of repayment was a HSECs like scheme where the successful (ie earning over a certain amount) athlete repaid a percentage of their training costs. They proposed that the debt be repaid in one of three ways, as a lump sum, as a incremental payment or in the form or community service (ie help the next generation).

The thing I liked about this argument was that all the reasons people use for saying that we should not expect them to repay are nullified. There is no decrease in the funding levels, if anything it may allow the government to fund more sports as they will be getting revenue that they currently do not receive, so the national pride and hero status blah blah blah is maintained.

The other thing that should be noted is that whilst the life of an elite athlete is difficult and requires years of dedication and training etc, this is a choice made by the person to undertake that lifestyle, just as the choice is made to study medicine or anything else.

So to add a little variety to the argument a little here are two more points that dont seem to have been raised.

As the parent of a child wanting to be an elite athlete, I have spent thousands each year on the sport fees, equipment, travelling to state and national championships, etc. The AIS does not kick in, in my childs sport like most, until around 18 years old so the largest percentage of costs in developing this athlete have been met by the family (which is our choice) or the local sporting body (which is completely self funded). The AIS swoop in for the final few years and take credit for developing the athlete - we have all heard the term “yet another product of the AIS programs” - which for most sports is completely misleading as they have not produced anything.

Could the government find a use for the $250 million a year in funding it gives to the AIS, of course but would we still produce the quality of athletes we do now without the AIS, my heart says yes but history says no. We have the AIS as a result of the disasterous results at the Montreal Olympics and it has proven its worth. The level of state based infrastructure in place now to get athletes into the AIS is much better than in the 70’s. Each state has its own sports institute/academy so perhaps we could get by without it…. food for though at least.

Athletes are not alone in the funding without the expectation of pay back. The government also funds the arts community in a similar way to athletes. So any program that forces successful athletes to repay training costs should be extended to successful artisans.

Finally, We live in a user pays society but this seems to be the exception to the rule.

Jason says:

01:26pm | 10/06/09

Do UNI students have to pay back the HECS fee’s. Hell yer.

Jonesy says:

01:25pm | 10/06/09

ABSOLUTELY! Make them pay! Gold medals do nothing to help me, my family, our community, the homeless, the aged, the sick, the cancer struck .... the list goes on. I couldn’t give a damn if we never had another olympian - would save us taxpayers billions! I’m sick of seeing these people have money thrown at them just because they can swim or run fast! WOOP DEE DOO they couldn’t work in a real job if they tried!

Richard says:

01:12pm | 10/06/09

What most people seem to fail to recognise is that people study at Uni for a profession they stay in for a lifetime and continue to rise in the field over up to 40 years paying back fees.  Athletes, in general only have a limited time to in the profession, maybe less than 10 years.  Very few make it so that they are able to continue to earn bigger dollars and most are actually studying part time at universities (which they have to pay back already) as there simply is not enough money to create a living of in sport unless you reach the absolute pinacle (or play football). 

How unfair to further penalise people who are putting everything on the line and on hold to do something they love with a dream of representing their own country.  In a country where we are getting fatter each day, any one who is willing to give up so much and hope to promote their sport should be assisted, not further hindered. The health issues associated with being overweight will soon become one of the biggest expenses in the taxpayers wallets and asking for money from those athletese who form part of the solution is not just unfair, it is un-Australian.

Ryan says:

01:05pm | 10/06/09

Why don’t we ask for the money that was spent on succesfull business people’s state school education back?  Just a different career path!

Stuart says:

12:58pm | 10/06/09

Give them all the money they need to make Australia great at sport. Lets ensure we will always be the number 1 sporting nation in the world…...
If anyone thinks otherwise you are un-Australian.

Dave says:

12:55pm | 10/06/09

Yes. I do not see why it should be any different to any other form of living that the government assists with paying for. Put it this way, if a scientist gains an education on HECS, makes it to the top of their field, is world-renowned and earning a decent living and is required to pay back their debt then why not the sports-person? I am not suggesting it should take the same format as HECS but when I see Ian Thorpe with his millions with no requirement to pay anything back but the scientist on substantially less made to pay back every cent plus interest it does not seem quite fair.

Graham says:

12:54pm | 10/06/09

What about all the Government funding the political parties get to fund their elections and to subsidise their spending on things like advertising. Very hypocritical of Ellis.
How much money do the Governments around the world make off sporting events with high class athletes? Most would make far more than they invested in the athletes.
Most sportspeople make bugger all money from sport, it is really only a select few who make it big, and then most of these give back to the community in ways money cannot determine, through community events, visiting sick kids, and also helping to promote Australia on a global scale. Thorpie helped bring more Japanese into this country than any other tax-payer funded advertisments ever had or will.

Francis says:

12:53pm | 10/06/09

Absolutely.  I think its only fair that the athletes will pay back.  It should be a two way street to be fair. But I also believe that they should only be made to pay once they become successful and earn big bucks.

Trevor says:

12:45pm | 10/06/09

Cut the funding to AIS and ensure that those that go on to big paid endorsements or professional status pay back the fees they should have paid for the training etc etc

Ornithorhynchus Anatinus says:

12:43pm | 10/06/09

Why can’t they be on a HECS agreement like Gough Whitlam brought in and Fraser/Howard increased the repayments for? I cannot understand why the governments have to support any sports persons without some kind of repayment. Grand Prixs (the idle rich spending Millions of Dollars on a hobby) asking governments to front up with costs, because it benefits businesses in the area. If it benefits the businesses, why don’t they support it?

squire says:

12:40pm | 10/06/09

Good idea. Everyone, regardless of disposition, should contribute something for the better-good of society.  I pay HECS, why shouldnt athletes? Australia really should begin to appreciate the value-add members of society, not these sports “heros”.  Let’s hope this is a new begining for Australia.

Lets be honest .. says:

12:40pm | 10/06/09

” I am the first to say that I know that sports people across the country make huge sacrifices, along with their families, in order to achieve for Australia at the highest level in sport. “

Come on - thats a load of bulldust to be polite. They don’t do it for Australia - they do it for themselves.

Brad Coward says:

12:39pm | 10/06/09

Put bluntly…yes !  No if’s and certainly no but’s !  No more free rides for the rest of your life because you’ve won an Olympic medal.  That should only happen once you’ve won a seat in Parliament !  Right Kate ?

Jasen says:

12:38pm | 10/06/09

You’re damn right it is fair…..people who study a degree must pay back Government HECS when they earn money, so why shouldn’t a successful athlete when they do well and receive fame and fortune. Fair is fair.

Joy says:

12:37pm | 10/06/09

If the AIS was paid back, there’d be more money for more athletes.
TAFE isn’t free, you have to pay in advance (though I believe very recently they brought in something similar to HECS/HELP).
Look, while we’re at it, why don’t we make everything returnable once you have a high income, including pension, unemployment benefit etc. If you never earn above, say $60k, fine, you never pay it back, otherwise your tax is just that little bit higher so you give back what the community gave you.

Tim says:

12:34pm | 10/06/09

Our society pushes them to the top, then we take all the credit at the respective events. Why should they have to pay? Im sure that it all aint free for them and for the most part when they retire, what then? With the exception of a few sports ie tennis, athletics doents really pay that much when your 40 and were a champion sprinter when they were 20.

Im a uni student and i have to pay hecs back. Im fine with elite sports people not having to pay back the AIS. I still recieved free education when i was studying, at least when i finish studying i have a career to go on with to pay it back. Kinda works the opposite with sports people.

I might be getting a bit ahead of myself but i could almost guarantee i’ll average more pay between 30-70 that most sports stars who have, for want of a better word, ditched school to reach the top of their game (and good on them, if i could i would) and will earn 3/5th of FA coaching teenagers the rest of their life.

Alot of these sports, say gymnastics as my brother competed for Australia, cost a hell of a lot of money and time from both the athlete and support groups, the emotional reward while it would be satisfying doesnt pay all that well.

Anton says:

12:29pm | 10/06/09

Ksenija (above): “Sports people are a group within our culture who do not have the intelligence to undertake further study for worthwhile positions within our society and so they elect to play sport.”  Right now I’m a student of one of the top universities in Australia studying engineering. I’m considered as an elite athlete by the university. For me to be anywhere close to being successful in my sport I need to train everyday for several hours, so please don’t say that elite athletes don’t have the intelligence and don’t think for a moment that elite sportsmen are getting a free ride. It takes years of hard work and determination to get to national and international levels for your sport. Most people need to balance their work and education in the same time, also for some sports the government funding is minimal, costing me around fifteen hundred for interstate competitions and around five to six thousand for international, as well as gear, equipment, memberships, making it a very expensive sport. Free ride, I don’t think so…

Marc says:

12:29pm | 10/06/09

I’m sorry, but if you choose to do an arts degree or something like that, just because it is your passion, doesn’t mean you are exempt from re-paying your uni fees. 

Certainly, many sports stars don’t make it big, but competing in that sport is their choice. 

The Government can’t afford to allocate appropriate funding for hospitals, schools, police and any other number of essential services. (For those that want to convince me that having world class athletes is more essential than these services, please provide your opinion). 

I for one would rather live in a country that has literacy, world class medical facilities and a safe society to having athletes that win gold medals.

Paul says:

12:28pm | 10/06/09

Should be a HECS style fee that they have to pay back, whether they ‘make it’ and become successful or not.

Zala says:

12:27pm | 10/06/09

I guess some of the people here just dont get it. my son is 9 he is training to be a potential triathlete when he gets into adult hood, so far it costs $1000 a year for swim training, bike $1700, run training $600, club membership fees triathlon club, cycling club, swimming club, running club, uniforms & clothing, summer - winter, heart rate monitors & associate equipment needed, travelling to competitions etc etc if you reckon i get out of this as a father for less than $10,000 this year your kidding, so the reality is if he becomes an olympic gold medalist you all will cheer if he becomes nothing i will be out of pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars untill the age he says dad i quit dont want to do it anymore. So where do you all think elite athletes come from the corner store?

Dave says:

12:26pm | 10/06/09

Note Dave at 952am, this idea isn’t about penalising the athlete who succeeds, it is merely seeking some repayment of the vast amount of taxpayer’s money that has been spent contributing to their success. Why should athletics be different to any other pursuit where people have talent, whether sporting, academic or artistic to name a few. In an Australian society which claims to be egalitarian, why shouldn’t our successful sporting stars pay back funding when they can afford to? Would your view be different if we were talking about a university-educated CEO who rakes in millions of $$ each year. What is good for one is good for all.

Ted says:

12:27pm | 10/06/09

How much money on travel and training and junior level championships is spent by juniors, and coaches who give up the opportunity to work and earn money often. Same with the athletes. To be successful at elite level, the commitment and training time, etc makes it almost impossible for those who desire it the most to hold down any kind of job. In regional areas the travelling is more extensive although sometimes less consistent.

So if these athletes make it all the way to International glory, good for them. If eventually they get a bit of assistance then they have earned it. The money they get as a result of this would barely cover minimum standards of living if averaged out over the years they could have been working. Let alone all the travel and extra clothing requirements.

Australia has a proud sporting tradition, and if this is important to the culture, the system needs to be supported. Yes grass roots levels need extra support too, but I wouldn’t expect the successful to pay for this. Maybe the big sponsors of sport could look at this.Best wishes to all those athletes who put in the hard work - I wish you all the best.

Anne says:

12:24pm | 10/06/09

“LP says:
Ksenija (above): Sports people are a group within our culture who do not have the intelligence to undertake further study for worthwhile positions within our society and so they elect to play sport.

LP: Try telling Steve Moneghetti he doesn’t have intelligence ... he did an engineering degree while training and racing marathons!!!!

June 10th, 2009 at 11:30am”

Admittedly many do have the intelligence - but some of our football players etc - I sincerely hope they never received assistance from the taxpayer! (I disagree in principal with professional sport so dont know much about the set-up).  And intelligence doesn’t relate to common sense and a moral sense! 

Fees for AIS should be the same as Universities - or are you going to pay for our top-rated computer graduates who earn a good name for this country to be educated?  How about the musicians?  How about those engaged in humanitarian efforts?  Stop this ridiculous concentration on sport - cant we try for a rounded culture, not a sport heavy one?  And I have never, and never would, hold any sporting figure up to any children as an icon of achievement, unless they have overcome great personal/physical difficulties.  I think the para-olympics deserve far more funding than the normal olympics, which are too political to be anything like the ancient Greeks envisioned.  Wake up Australia, stop living through dubious heros and find some real ones!

Ray says:

12:22pm | 10/06/09

What about those who are caught with drugs or have bad behaviour to sour sport (AKA Nick Darcy, etc)?  Should they be forced to pay back what they had been paid??

DDR says:

12:20pm | 10/06/09

Only in Labour Australia would you have this debate.Alot of good sports people never go to the AIS and make big money.Now go and have your lunch.

Benno says:

12:18pm | 10/06/09

make them pay it back, they all get good sponsorships and people that go to uni have to pay back their debts!!

Josh says:

12:15pm | 10/06/09

No way should they pay it back. As far as I am aware you cannot just show up at the AIS and get trained for free. You have to be selected and even past that point I’m sure there are requirements that need to be constantly met.
That sounds like a scholarship to me and you can get them at any university and study for free. The point here is that you need to be exceptional to get a university scholarship and you need to be exceptional to go to the AIS.
Besides that, these athletes are generally competing at World Championships and Commonwealth and Olympic Games. Sports that put Australia in the spotlight not just the individual.
If its all so easy to make money out of sport then why don’t the people whinging about it on this site just pop on down to the AIS and make some cash? Idiots

Julia says:

12:11pm | 10/06/09

Swimming costs a $100+ per month, Annual Membership into Club approx. $215, bather costs - kids grow & bathers wear out, goggles, snorkels, flippers etc, $3.50 - $7.50 per race per meet (which are many), at the meet - 3 sessions means 3 x entry payments for anyone other than the swimmer!!!, timekeeping duties + volunteer work which can be alot. Training sessions (min 3x’s/wk) from 4.45am in the morning (parent’s suffer lack of sleep), kids have to be highly organised, It’s an ongoing cost and is extremely expensive for the average wage earner with more than 1 kid. If at the end that particular kid happens to ‘make it’, I say good on him/her cause its been one hell of an expensive journey and committment from the parent/s. There are many swimmers with very close racing times.

Emilie says:

11:57am | 10/06/09

They (Athletes) study at the AIS - Taxpayers pay
We (Students) study at University - We pay with large HECs bills

Equality - Introduce a HECS equivalent

If an athlete comes from a disadvantaged background have scholarships like universities do. They are physical athletes, we are athletes of the mind. Athletes and students have something to contribute to society - lets not discriminate.

Miriam says:

11:57am | 10/06/09

One more vote for a HECS-like repayment system for Athletes.

Shelley says:

11:48am | 10/06/09

Should successful athletes have to pay back the AIS?

yes

Callum says:

11:43am | 10/06/09

Great idea. HECS-style system where athletes have to repay (at least some) of the cost of their training if they start raking in the big dollars? Most definitely.

LP says:

11:42am | 10/06/09

The Govt should drop HECS and make university free (like it used to be) ... noone will complain about the AIS then!  Sounds fair to me!

Chris says:

11:41am | 10/06/09

“Should successful athletes have to pay back the AIS?” Damn straight, Kate! The sooner a HECS-style system is set up the better.

Warren A. says:

11:41am | 10/06/09

Tall-poppy syndrome ???

Besides the fact that these athletes could potentially bring in millions of dollars in endoresments and possible international events (Refer to Tiger Woods’ impact on Businesses and National economy) - sport overall can unite a nation, regardless of race, religion or class.

I speak from experience, being an ex-pat South African, I was witness to the Rugby World Cup 1995 which galvanised a nation with the ‘simple conception of sport’.

Financial support from government should rightly be controlled and balanced but then the rest of the balance should be made of sponsors and affliates of the athletes. I’m sure that the AIS could broker a deal with some of the name brands of sport to sponsor the respective fields i.e. Speedo to contribute to swimming; ASICS to sponsor track & field, etc

Putting financial arguments aside, the ripple effect that inspiration has cannot be measured with dollars or cents. Again, I speak of experience - in my early 20’s I was what people call “borderline obese” but a chance encounter with an Aussie Great Athlete - a tall fellow that wore number 4 in a Wallaby Jersey - was no more than a 5 minute meet and greet and a photo op, but this small encounter inspired me to be better at everything I do and stay healthy. I am now fit, strong and well below obesity levels and I have continued this inspiration with other people that I know and push my fellow amateur athletes to do exercise and go to the gym or running or cycling. The ripple effect of great inspiration cannot be measured.

Let sport be not just a game but a unifying force.

Carl says:

11:41am | 10/06/09

Of course they should have to pay it back.  University students pay their loans back so if these elite athletes start making the big bucks doing endorsements and such why shouldn’t they have to pay it back?  Then it can be put back into the system and help the next sporting stars.  Very few ever make it to the point of making a living out of it.  The ones that do should feel obligated to give back what helped them to achieve what they did.

Murray says:

11:31am | 10/06/09

It should be paid back. The ones that make the top earn massive amounts in sponsorship, the least they can do is pay for their training as an up and coming athlete.

Those that don’t make the top are still equipped with great skills and usually have well paying careers, so they can pay back their education and training as well.

LP says:

11:30am | 10/06/09

Ksenija (above): Sports people are a group within our culture who do not have the intelligence to undertake further study for worthwhile positions within our society and so they elect to play sport.

LP: Try telling Steve Moneghetti he doesn’t have intelligence ... he did an engineering degree while training and racing marathons!!!!

LP says:

11:25am | 10/06/09

Elite sportspeople earn the right to go to the AIS ... qualifying standards and performance expectations ... the average person does not know the meaning of hard work like these athletes do!!!

Competing overseas is necessary ... it creates international athletes out of national athletes.Competition overseas is the only way AUS athletes become world class.  They can’t drive to Germany like the Brits can.  Flights costs money!

My suggestion is for elite athletes to balance university degrees with AIS training.

Destry says:

11:17am | 10/06/09

Public funding has a selfish public motive - glory for the nation. That’s what is being paid for. So NO, the sportsmen/-women should not have to repay the assistance. All of those who reach the top give a dividend to the nation in international renown. They add to the Australian legend. They lift our national profile for any number of reasons (including immigration). There are other benefits such as influence in international sports organisations. The funding is very cheap compared to the return that the country gets. Let’s drop the meanspirited crap, born of envy,  and move on. And be thankful the success stories don’t chanrge us more.

LP says:

11:15am | 10/06/09

Congrats James - finally someone with a level headed opinion.

Has anyone considered the tens of thousands of dollars the parents spend on these gifted athletes just to get them to the AIS, without any guarantee of a medal?

Not everyone looks like Rice or Hackett so the million dollar deals don’t get spread around to all medalists!  I’d like to see Kurt Fearnley get a million dollar deal!!!

Scott glennon says:

11:12am | 10/06/09

If they represent our country, state, city, school or any other group. They should not have to pay back the money. Unless Australia would like to see less of the best representing us?

Trav says:

11:09am | 10/06/09

It appears that sports is even more important than our future. The government has axed the Solar panel rebate today, so effectively killing a sustainable energy industry in Australia, BUT we will have select sports persons who manage to get educated for nothing and earn huge endorsements. What a sick world we live in - maybe it is better that the world dies off!

jackal says:

11:08am | 10/06/09

tell Tamsyn Lewis to give every cent back

JasonZ says:

11:06am | 10/06/09

Of course they should pay it back. With Interest.

Fredd0 says:

11:03am | 10/06/09

Yes they should have to pay back in exactly the same way as University graduates - and why not include TAFE as well - they get a benefit from the community too. As for the unemployed each Australian employee pays through the tax system for their unemployment insurance, but for a commensurate tax reduction why should not they also payback in the same way?
Trouble is while most uni students might grump they accept they have been given an opportunity while the elite sportspeople think it is a rite of passage!

Lex says:

11:01am | 10/06/09

Marty - Yes Bill Gates did pay for his Uni before he dropped out. Going to College in the US - isn’t a cheap exercise and it is pay before you learn.

Lex says:

11:01am | 10/06/09

Marty - Yes Bill Gates did pay for his Uni before he dropped out. Going to College in the US - isn’t a cheap exercise and it is pay before you learn.

Helena says:

10:59am | 10/06/09

I’d prefer that we did not even need to have this discussion, and believe that all forms of education should be available to all - there is certainly more than enough wastage in both our federal and state systems, not to mention why we have both *sigh* - to fund education, health and aged care for all

Lex says:

10:58am | 10/06/09

If spending millions on our sports stars was inspiring everyone else to get out there and be active? Why is our national health deteriorating so quickly?

It almost seems like the more we spend on our elite sports starts the fatter the nation becomes?

These people choose to compete in their sports, getting up at 5am requires more than the love of your country. If we choose to make Doctors pay back their funding when they save lives every day, then someone who runs around a 400 metre track can as well.

To the argument that successful athletes will pay us back by paying more in tax - then why do we make any high earners like those in finance, medicine, property pay back their HECS debts? what a contradiction.

Matt Thompson says:

10:56am | 10/06/09

No way. They are not like us - they are gods.

We should pay homage in every way we can.

Rob says:

10:48am | 10/06/09

Yes they should pay back the money.I can’t believe the AIS is going so well when our hospitals are like they are

marty says:

10:41am | 10/06/09

did Bill Gates pay for his uni before he dropped out ?

Daiden says:

10:31am | 10/06/09

Australia is a vast country, funded by the taxes of 20 odd million people, and the businesses that operate here. We face a future without public health cover, uncertain pensions, and a raising retirement age.

By all means I support people to get to the top of their fields, in sport or whatever. Once there, the responsibility should be to contribute back into the system that got them there, and is doing the same for others.

Pete says:

10:24am | 10/06/09

@ Dave that’s a poor comparison of course people pay for the dole via their taxes they pay when they go back to work.

I agree professional athletes should be asked to subsidise the costs of training them (once they reach a certain threshold in earnings). When I say subsidise remember the cost a student pays back in HECS is not that total cost for a student’s education.

Andrew Jones says:

10:20am | 10/06/09

Why should they get government money for their selfish little hobby, oh I mean sport.

Loxy says:

10:19am | 10/06/09

I agree with all the comments on here about using a HECS style system for those who attend the AIS. We all have to pay for our own education so why shouldn’t sports people have to pay for their own training, especially when some of them go onto having very lucrative careers.

However, I don’t for a second blame the sports people for moving overseas for tax purposes ie such as Hewitt’s recent move to the Bahamas. It seems to be a hard lesson this country needs to learn that if you tax the hell out of the top earners they will continue to leave in droves. It seems that only when there is no one left in this country to fund the hospitals, schoods and their welfare payments will the lefties truly understand.

Nick says:

10:19am | 10/06/09

If these athletes become big money earners they will be putting back into the system simply by the increased amount of tax they will have to pay. Many of these athletes also do an enormous amount of charity work that is unpaid & goes unrecognised.

Scholarship holders in other areas aren’t required to return the money, so neither should athletes.

Cheers

Marnie says:

10:10am | 10/06/09

I am not a sports fan at all but it seems to me that those that go to events to watch these sports feed money into the local economy better than any other “profession”.  This being the case, one would assume that the money spent on training them is viewed as an investment by the Government.  I don’t know the figure of course but one only has to listen to the hue and cry about loss of revenue when any of our cities lose an event.
If our sportsmen and women were not trained to international levels I cannot see the world wanting to come to our doorstep.

Cath says:

10:09am | 10/06/09

Let everyone who gets gov help when needed repay that loan when circumstances change - to me that should include dole receipients as well.

Tammie says:

10:08am | 10/06/09

I agree with a HECS style payback system. I trained for many years under the QAS system and spent many days and weeks at training camps at the AIS. While I never earnt a career out of sports I believe “payback” should be warrented some how. I’ve since volunteered my time and experience back to the younger athletes. Perhaps when athletes become professional they should put money into a sinking fund or something of the sort to payback funding.

James says:

10:02am | 10/06/09

People over-generalise way too much on this issue, like Marc above. For a start there is a big difference between professional and non-professional sport. Our richest sports people like Mark Webber, Casey Stoner and Mick Doohan, Adam Scott, Greg Norman etc received little if any money from the AIS. On the flipside AIS athletes in lower profile sports train incredibly hard and put their lives on hold to get the best out of themselves. The funding they get while training is comparable to being on the dole. And even then the proportion of athletes who achieve fame AND fortune is a tiny, tiny percentage. Just ask a rower, diver or track cyclist - a gold medal does not mean you are set for life.

Having said that, those who do make a lot of money out of their AIS-backed sports should give money back - and many of them do! Andrew Bogut is just one example - multimillionaire in the US and has donated handsomely back to the AIS and other basketball groups in Australia.

Stu says:

09:58am | 10/06/09

Sports athletes would contribute to our country through inspiring youth and therefore helping to keep some people healthy… Exactly like many of our university graduates (e.g. doctors, nurses, etc). I think that university graduates also assist to raise the prosperity of our nation through research, science and economic contributions. Yet all these students must pay HECS. It seems fair that a similar system should exist for athletes. At the very least, as you say Kate, we need to have this debate.

Peter says:

09:56am | 10/06/09

Why not call it for what it is: Sportertainment.

The true amateur, mass-participation ideal of sport has been killed off by elitism (in the worst sense of the word).  We’re now left with fat Norms and fat kids watching on TV the super-athletes that have become hypertrophised organs of physical activity. 

In that sense, so-called modern ‘sport’ is no different to other modes of entertainment.  Do we fund NIDA?  Yes.  Do NIDA students pay HECS?  I don’t know, but if they do then the AIS kids should do so too.

The AIS is all about sportertainment, not sport.  Either recognise it for what it is, or close it down and give all that money to local sporting clubs to develop a broader, younger base - the first step of which would be to reduce the penurious costs of affiliation fees (a large part of which are insurance costs).

Tim says:

09:56am | 10/06/09

About time! I’m sure they can afford to pay back some of the million dollar earnings. I’m still paying back my 60,000 debt and will be doing so for some time.

Anthony says:

09:55am | 10/06/09

Should be like Hecs/Help. The athletes pay back their debt once they have earned a certain threshold.

Dave says:

09:52am | 10/06/09

Are you guys joking?

Does this bring up, why don’t people that were on the doll pay it back when they get a job.

When unique oppertunities arise for these people we (Australia) should embrace the talent, not penalise them if they succeed.

Get a grip.

Tristan says:

09:52am | 10/06/09

A lot of athletes struggle to support themselves and their family but the top tier of athletes like Rice, Hackett who end up with million dollar endorsement contracts and become set for life should repay the Government for their funding. As Kate mentions, doctors and nurses and other professionals have to repay for their training and i think the benefit they provide society cannot even compared to someone who swims for a living!  The AIS even has an AFL academy, what benefit does that have, it’s not even an international sport.

Kate says:

09:47am | 10/06/09

Elite sport is funded and treated exceptionally well in Australia.  Every time the Olympics is on I cringe at the size of our medal-haul when compare with other countries.  It’s much more of a reflection of the $$ we put into athletes than of our sporting prowess as a nation—plenty of other countries would be more competitive if they put in the same resources, but they prioritise government spending differently.  The AOC puts out its hand for more public funding evey olympiad, despite having significant fundraising capabilities itself.  Furthermore, the previous government enacted special legislation to specifically protect olympic words and logos in the marketplace—everyone else has to rely on trade marks and trade practices legislation. 

Anyway, enough whingeing.  I’d much rather see more investment in sport at a grass roots level than at the elite level.  I don’t think arguments about ‘role models’ and ‘inspiration’ are as tangible as cold hard cash for better facilities at schools, sporting clubs etc.

Gresty says:

09:47am | 10/06/09

why should it be any different to a University student paying HECS?

Ben says:

09:45am | 10/06/09

Why dont they introduce a HELP/HECS system for sport. If you go to university the government helps pay for your degree and then you pay it back when you have an income. Why shouldnt athletes have to do the same? If they dont make money from the sport then they dont pay it back anyway. Obviously it would be subsidised to a degree just like university so some public money is being used anyway.

The other option would be to introduce a sports tax for athletes that are publicly funded. They sign contracts that bind them to Australia in return they get funding and trained etc and when they do earn money they pay normal tax plus say another 5% to offset what Australia spent on them. They also are not allowed to move offshore or if they do the full amount of what their “education” cost is payable upfront before they can leave.

Athletes sport should be viewed as a job just like any other job. They are obviously doing something they love so why should they get fully funded for doing something they love and then reap the financial rewards and not have to pay anything back?

Ksenija says:

09:42am | 10/06/09

Sports people who want to be the best should pay for their training and expenses just like the rest of the population. Sports people are NOT heroes, they do not save lives like doctors or nurses (medical profession in general) nor do they put themselves in danger to save others (policeman / fireman). If they want to go to the AIS, then once they finish their time there, they should have to pay back every cent, just like other students. There is NOTHING special about sports people. Sports people are a group within our culture who do not have the intelligence to undertake further study for worthwhile positions within our society and so they elect to play sport.

Bec says:

09:41am | 10/06/09

Each person who earns over $41K has to start repaying their University HECS debt as a compulsory tax item.  Why should athletes not be means tested the same way?  What makes athletes more special than, say, cancer researchers or medical staff that save dying children?

It makes me sick how athletes in this country seem to be segrogated into a “special” “untouchable” category just because they can run/swim/jump/hit things/kick a ball.

Musicians still have to pay for their Uni degrees (if they manage to earn enough).

@ Marty - shouldn’t the *parents* be the role models for their kids, motivating them to get off the couch?  Too much responsibility is placed in the hands of the media by stupid, lazy parents who need to get off the couch themselves.  This country needs intelligent, free thinking role models who encourage children to use their brains instead of running a marathon or giving little girls complexes about their body image.  What we don’t need are more bogans who think that hitting things is smart or funny.

Jake Zanoni says:

09:38am | 10/06/09

As one of those die hard sport lovers, I will go further than asking for sports stars to pay back taxpayer funds, I will say ‘let no sport receive taxpayer funds’.

Let sports live or die on the support they can procure without coercion.  Some sports will thrive in this country, some will not.  Many of the sports I love will be quite small in this country.  I accept this because I do not believe in putting a gun to someones head and saying “you must pay for my entertainment”.  I do not believe in the Government doing the same thing on my behalf.

Scott says:

09:37am | 10/06/09

why can’t we just run a similar system as HECS…...if they earn over a certain amount they start paying it back. I’ve had a gutful of whingers saying how the HECS is crippling them…blah…blah. We still have some of the cheapest schooling in the civilised world and you only pay when you earn a decent amount. Seems simple enough. How about means testing for athletes? Those with enough money can pay for themselves…..happens for the rest of us, why should they be any different? I ‘represent’ Australia every day when I turn up to my job…...do the best I can….go home and repeat, repeat, repeat. We aren’t all born six foot tall and athletic….

Evil Beagle says:

09:34am | 10/06/09

It should be like HECs. Once your income reaches a certain level you pay back your debt.

Marty says:

09:30am | 10/06/09

Athletes should not have to return any funding.  If anything Australia (and most other Western nations) need sporting role models to encourage kids and their parents to switch off the TV and get outside.

And as for athletes moving overseas for tax purposes…well Kate, if the Government is going to keep taxing the hell out of top earners, expect the drain to continue.  Something that the left never seems to grasp is that the rich can’t, and won’t pay for everything - they’ll just leave.  And then who’ll fund the hospitals and schools, let alone the athletes.

Shane says:

09:28am | 10/06/09

Perhaps a HECS-style system would be appropriate, where the money was repaid out of an athlete’s future earnings.  That would be more like the real world like the rest of us!

Marc says:

09:23am | 10/06/09

Let’s see, you can study medicine, engineering or any other subject that contributes to society and yet they have to pay back for a number of years.  But you can go train one on one for free, win a couple of medals, get MASSIVE endorsement deals and still not have to pay back a cent. 

Yep, that sounds fair to me.

Darren says:

09:17am | 10/06/09

the greatest mistake that Malcolm Fraser made was to set up the AIS - since the 1970s as funding for elite sport has increased we have seen a reverse in the general health of Australians

Simon Sharwood says:

08:31am | 10/06/09

@Stephen. Universities offer nowhere near the hothoused environment of the AIS. Imagine if our elite young people across all fields had years of 1:1 training, with a vast support crew monitoring ever their performance. At universities you’d struggle to get any 1:1 time with tutors and lecturers!

Trevor says:

08:25am | 10/06/09

nice point, Stephen!

Stephen says:

08:17am | 10/06/09

Simon - Would an AIS for every talent be a university?

Simon Sharwood says:

06:31am | 10/06/09

Why not have an AIS for every sort of talent, instead of just Athletic talent? I’d wager the benefit for the nation would be greater!