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Should kids give a toss about their sperm donor dads?

Cameron England

by Cameron England

08 Feb 05:50am

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Filed under: Fatherhood, Legal Affairs, Medical, Sperm Donation

159 comments

Recently in South Australia, the local reproductive medicine outfit had, for want of a better term, a “sperm drive’‘.

Every sperm donor has a unique genetic print. But should kids have a right to track them down? Image: Eric Lobbecke

The campaign, conceived on the cheap, pleaded with Aussie blokes not to “waste’’ their sperm.

It was wildly successful. The number of sperm donors in SA jumped 100 per cent. From two to four.

There are arguments it would have worked much better in Victoria because the miniscule number of blokes willing to donate sperm, and give (one assumes) a couple struggling with conception the chance at having a family highlights a powerful moral and ethical dilemma.

The thing is, once children conceived through sperm donation turn 18, they have the right to find out who their donor father is.

The laws have morphed over the years, from a situation of anonymity, to one where donors could consent to be contacted, to the current situation, where they have no choice.

The issue has been thrown into sharp relief by the case of Kimberley Springfield, a Victorian woman who has launched a legal challenge to find out who her real father is.

The details, as is to be expected, are harrowing.

“I cannot fathom going through life never knowing where I have come from, my ancestry and my identity,’’ Ms Springfield writes.

“Every day I look at the faces of people around me and wonder: ‘Could you be my father, my half sister, my half brother, my grandparent?’‘’

It is human nature, especially as we get older, to connect with our heritage, and the desire to find out who we are, and where we are from, intensifies. Being blocked legally from doing so must be terrible.

But consider the poor bloke on the other side of the ledger also.

At some stage in the 1980s, perhaps out a sense of duty or a desire to help a couple in need, or perhaps motivated by a need as simple as wanting a bit of beer money to tide him over during university orientation week, some bloke has donated his sperm, secure in the knowledge that his identity will never be revealed to any children conceived.

While any child’s desire to know where they come from is understandable, the ramifications of a heretofore unknown child rocking up on anyone’s doorstep could be traumatic.

How is this person expected to react? Many people would feel, and perhaps unfairly so, obligated to develop a relationship of some sort with any child which they had fathered.

Any other children, and wives/girlfriends, in the picture might also be threatened by the appearance of a new sibling/child.

Multiply this by five - the current number of children a sperm donor can currently father - and you either have the premise for a hilarious sitcom, or the potential for five times the heartache. Most likely the latter.

Unfortunately it is hard to separate the competing claims on both sides of the ledger here. Children of donors probably should have a right to know where they come from. But as long as they do, the disincentive to donate will be huge.

And in SA at least, the future of the state’s donor children will remain, literally, in the hands of just four guys.

Most commented

430Australia, you have nothing to fear but fear itself
390There's no one Thomson won't burn to save his skin
335Animal experiments won't cure me from cancer
313Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking
265Who murdered the Arts degree?
246A big day for Thomson, who thus far is guilty of nothing...
231Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...
231South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.

159 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Erick says:

      04:53am | 08/02/11

      The next step is to make sperm donors liable for child support.

      Already, in Sweden, there was a court case in which a man who donated sperm to a lesbian couple was forced to pay child support after they split up.

      Men are regarded by the law as nothing more than walking wallets and sperm banks. It is time for men to have legal rights equal to those of women.

      Reply

    • acotrel says:

      06:46am | 08/02/11

      Eric, if you wait for politicians to protect you from the feminists, you’ll be waiting forever.  The simple thing to do is keep your appendage in your pants. But if you have sex, even as remotely as by donating sperm, you must be responsible for the consequences. The affirmative action/workplace favouritism involving women will be resolved legally through natural processes.

    • Ray says:

      07:22am | 08/02/11

      Acotrl, coulld you please expand on your last sentence. Sounds like the extreme definition of optimism. Or are you simply saying that affirmative action/workplaca favouritism will be resolved when women own and run everything reach the point of extinction to which they are rapidly heading under today’s warped society.

      I can assure tyou that when women run everything which is likely in the short term future there will be no compassion towards men only a goulish delight.

    • AliceC says:

      08:16am | 08/02/11

      As a woman, I am looking foward to taking over the world Mwahahahaha!!!

    • Ray says:

      08:58am | 08/02/11

      Alice C, Read your response. It must have some hidden meaning. Smart women and UFOs, - haven’t seen either. Since we found out God was a woman the f***** state of rthe world is easier to explain.

    • AliceC says:

      10:23am | 08/02/11

      @Ray, read your response.

      ‘Since we found out God was a woman…..’ I must have missed that memo.

    • Von says:

      12:03pm | 08/02/11

      Also time for children to have legal rights to know who they are and what their identity is.Five recipients of a donor are far too many.You may see it as a way of making beer money, it’s a little different if you don’t know who you are.

    • JAX says:

      12:19pm | 08/02/11

      @Von - people don’t get paid for donating in Australia, they do in America yes but not here

    • iMitchy says:

      12:45pm | 08/02/11

      I agree with you Erick - to a degree. Donors should be protected by the laws at the time of donation.
      Can you imagine receiving hundreds of old speeding tickets in the mail because a speed limit had been changed and a court decided that you were accountable.
      This is the same. You cant penalise somebody for playing by the rules just because the rules later change.

    • Erick says:

      12:48pm | 08/02/11

      I think the problem will solve itself, Von. Without the guarantee of anonymity, as the article points out, most men simply won’t donate.

    • Jane says:

      07:31am | 09/02/11

      I agree with Eric. A sperm donation should be like a blood donation, a skin donation or any other donation we do…100% anonymous for ever. Even if you donate the organs fo a loved one it is the donor who has the choice whether they want to make contact with the recepients, not the recepients who can demand contact with the donor.

      Bring in universal laws of donation.

    • acotrel says:

      06:10am | 08/02/11

      I take pride in where my family comes from.  Should anyone be denied that emotion when thinking about their parentage? I feel that this subject has similarities with the ‘designer babies’ issue.  Some people are just too cute when pursuing their own selfish desires.  If someone cannot conceive, surely they could find a sperm donor from their own family?

      Reply

    • HappyCynic says:

      07:31am | 08/02/11

      I’m the opposite.  I would give anything to swap my parents for some decent ones, hell they don’t even have to be good parents just good people.  My grandparents are no better.

      What happens to the kids who find their sperm donor parent only to find out he’s a total loser/jerk (more likely than not)?  Hell what kind of a parent tells their kid they came from a test tube anyway?  The kid doesn’t need to know if he/she has two loving parents anyway.  I’d argue the right for a child to know his or her ancestry should be limited to any relevant medical information (which prospective parents should screen for before beginning the process).

    • kj_storm says:

      09:02am | 08/02/11

      I agree Happy Cynic,

      Also what about those children that were the result of rape. Are we as a society going to say that they not only have to know how they were conceived but by who? I mean if its good enough for sperm donars than surely it has to apply across the board?

      Can you imagine the problems it will cause?

    • Brett says:

      09:57am | 08/02/11

      Why not just get sperm donors to provide a full medical history and geneological history with hair, eye colour etc when they make the deposit. Then the kids can have access to “who they are” and all that without screwing up the family life of some guy who gave sperm when he was 19 and in uni and now lives in the burbs with his family.

    • GlendaSings says:

      10:26am | 08/02/11

      Medical history at the time of donation is not necessarily helpful. People develop things like cancer or have other children with genetic disorders that would not have been known at the time of donation.

      Release of anonymous medical information is all that should be allowed. It’s not fair for these men who donated on the condition of anonymity to be forced years later to reveal their identities. Had they known at the time that this was going to happen, many would not have donated.

      On another note: woman here advocating for fairness for men who donate. Not all women are out to get men, I get really tired of reading comments from men about how all women are out to get them. Both men and women are capable of being horrible (and wonderful!)

    • iMitchy says:

      01:11pm | 08/02/11

      It is those who choose to use donors as a form of conception who put their children in this position. I haven’t read any comments yet about these mothers. Where is their responsibilty?
      I sympathise with their circumstances but there are plenty of kids who need to be adopted and by using a donor you are essentially raising a strangers child anyway (if that happens to be the problem with taking the adoption route).
      The kids should not be able to identify the donors without their consent and it should be understood that the mother/parents are the ones who made this decision on the childs behalf.
      (Before arguing about the minor status and the fact that these children can only make contact after they turn 18, consider these scenarios: A parent signs a consent/liability form for their child to stay at childcare centre / play sport with a club. The child is not of an age to make any judgement for themselves of the situation. While at the centre / club, the child has an accident and becomes disabled. Can the child hold the centre or club responsible after the age of 18? What about if the law changes?)
      I don’t know about you but I was astonished to hear that there are only 4 donors in SA. But now I don’t know why they bother. The liabilities are potentially devastating as they fluctuate and a total of only 20 people/couples can be assisted. Kudos to the lucky few but it is time people started thinking about the affect their actions have on others.

      Oh and Glenda, don’t you worry about Erick, he will take any opportunity to turn a conversation into a battle of the sexes underdog tale. I am sure that there is more to it than meets the eye and the point is being misdirected.

    • Mellyn says:

      04:47pm | 08/02/11

      iMitchy, there are NOT plenty of children available for adoption in Australia - look at the adoption stats for the last few decades. There ARE children available for international adoption overseas, but even then, the waiting lists are huge, as are the costs. A family I know recently adopted from China - they originally started the process in 2005. More recently, they agreed to consider a child with a disability, which cut the waiting time down a little - otherwise they likely would have been waiting another 3 years or more.

    • Jane says:

      07:35am | 09/02/11

      Acotrel are you 100% sure your ancestory is what you think it is? Are you 100% sure that neither of your parents had an affair at any time and produced either yourself or another sibling from that relationship? Are you 100% sure your grandparents, your great grandparents etc have been 100% faithful and never ever strayed?

      If you are I congratulate your for your naivity and hope you never find anything that doesnt add up in your family tree.

    • TChong says:

      06:11am | 08/02/11

      Is the legislation to allow identification retrospective ?
      If the then agreement was for anominity , then that should stay that way.
      If the rules change, and the fellas still feel civic mind enough, at least they are aware of what may one day occur.

      Reply

    • Super D says:

      07:42am | 08/02/11

      I find myself in complete agreement.  If the donation was given on condition of anonymity then that must be protected.  By all means recognise that a problem was caused and indeed change the rules going forward but changing the rules retrospectively is simply not on.

      That being said I think that existing donor children should be entitled to access to the medical history of the donors family.

      Lets keep in mind there are plenty of people who never know anything about both or even either of their parents and their families.

    • iMitchy says:

      01:36pm | 08/02/11

      Super D,

      I agree with the third paragraph. This doesn’t allow the children access to medical history. The second paragraph should be subject to consent by the donor and agreed by the recipient as to whether consent is given or not.
      GlendaSings writes “Medical history at the time of donation is not necessarily helpful. People develop things like cancer or have other children with genetic disorders that would not have been known at the time of donation.”
      1. Parents who die young cannot provide answers to their children about future disease development. So it’s not really a “right” to know.
      2. What if said genetic disorder is a result of the partner. They had no part in the donation process and are therefore not obliged to provide medicals. Should the donor child be informed that they “may or may not have an undetermined chance of maybe being affected by some kind of disorder”?
      3. Reverse it. What are the donors rights to know if the donor child is born with any genetic disorders?

      As far as identity is concerened, perhaps the child should be given the month and year of their biological fathers birth to compare with the fathers of any potential sexual partners to prevent incest.

    • acotrel says:

      06:36am | 08/02/11

      I feel that we’ve become a bunch of bland idiots.  A sense of family might not be important to the young, but as we get older our attitudes change. Two years ago I visited our old family home (father’s side) in a county to the west of London, where our lot lived for 500 years.  I now know why we used to call England ‘home’ in the old days.  It probably doesn’t mean much, but my sense of family was heightened, and I found a new level of meaning to the existence of our family in Australia. Most of the younger members don’t know our history, and if it’s not passed on to them us oldies take it with us when we die.  The biggest tragedy is the loss of family photos showing previous generations.  I personally lost a lot of these when my mother died, and a couple of kids grabbed them, and didn’t bother to copy them to DVD.

      Reply

    • jimmyvanilla says:

      08:10am | 08/02/11

      “I feel that we’ve become a bunch of bland idiots”

      I think that’s putting it mildly. It’s pure insanity. If you can’t have a child naturally, with your own sperm&egg; - and if you you want one - that’s got to be a very difficult situation. I can’t imagine. But just because people want things they can’t have doesn’t mean society should make a way for them when there is even a small risk it won’t be in the interests of the children (and the adults these sprouts inevitably grow into) who are conceived . This goes double if you want offspring when you’ve decided you want to be in a relationship with only sperm or only eggs or don’t want to be in a relationship at all. We’re talking creating humans here - not pets. Ban sperm donations.

    • acotrel says:

      06:40am | 08/02/11

      Chongie, If I was conceived from donated sperm, I might see it as my right to know my parentage, regardless of what bullshit contract was signed before my birth.

      Reply

    • Ray says:

      07:27am | 08/02/11

      Acotrel, well it’d be your mother’s fault for super market top shelf conception, which some up women’s emotions of today. You sound like an Aldi product.

    • Ray says:

      08:00am | 08/02/11

      ’ Some’? Oh well I’ve made some typos today. But that’s what happens when you type over a woman’s head to reach the keyboard. Earlier I meant men going to extinction. Same excuse with the keyboard.

    • Ray Graham says:

      06:47am | 08/02/11

      Tighten up the rules sure. But the bottom line is men don’t want to be involved in any lesbian or man hating single female feminist conception, or even an ‘Elton’ conception.

      If this were purely for couples with conception difficulties, with assured anonimity from paternity action or child support there would be less of a problem. And assured certainty of with whom their sperm may ‘serve’ and tightened laws may serve the purpose. But hey that would require the female based minorities of feminist ideology to be challenged and the mainstream of society supported. We have proved that we are not up to that task.

      The greed of women and the perception of some to vilify and gender cleanse men from society is a real factor these days. We can have lesbians or single man hating feminists going down the path of gender selection, termination, and the Utopian world without men. So those men can aid their own extinction. Well leadies you go figure.

      Progress!

      Reply

    • acotrel says:

      08:21am | 08/02/11

      I don’t feel threatened by women.  However I don’t tolerate poison, whether it comes from either sex or the in-betweens!  If it comes from politicians, I change my vote away from the venomous pricks.

    • Anon says:

      08:24am | 08/02/11

      You sound like a bigot so I’m not sure why I’m even replying but - my husband donated sperm a lesbian couple who were his long time friends. Most of our other lesbian friends who have children also conceived this way. I don’t think this situation is for everyone but saying ‘men don’t want to be involved in any lesbian etc’ is clearly untrue.

    • Ray says:

      09:08am | 08/02/11

      I stand by what I said ‘Anon’.  Also, ‘bigot ’ means opinion without reason.

      Well there is good reason for my comments, and plain for all to see except for those that delude themselves.

      Alcotel, I know it is hard to feel threatened by reserve graders with ambition beyond their station. But women are like that and will take any action to improve a situation beyond their capacity. Gender cleansing is one such action that appeases their mind.

    • HappyCynic says:

      09:35am | 08/02/11

      @Ray

      Better that we men go extinct than have to put up with venomous freaks like yourself giving us a bad name.  Some men like women, get over it.

    • James1 says:

      09:59am | 08/02/11

      If Ray was talking about Jews or black people instead of women his posts would not get through the mods.

    • Ray says:

      10:18am | 08/02/11

      Happy C, that’s not nice. But I also see you are mostly degrading fathers and don’t like your own. Don’t play into social hands, he probably loves you. Anyhow I ‘ve loved women but now assess a lifetime of malicious maligning of fathers as little reciprocation for honorable deeds. Plus I can guarantee you my kids love and respect me. You need some gonads to stand up for yourself. Younger men are being done over (older as well) and you are too susceptable with ‘squirrel’ impared judgement. What do you say to women who come out with the same crap as me.

    • James1 says:

      10:33am | 08/02/11

      Do you have a daughter Ray?  Do you think she is stupid, as per your post above?  I suppose your mother was also an idiot, or perhaps you never actually met her, given you have never seen a smart woman.

      Did you ever think that maybe women are mean to you because of the way you act towards people?  That maybe, just maybe, it is your own rude demeanour that causes people to turn against you?

    • HappyCynic says:

      10:44am | 08/02/11

      Puh-lease you don’t know my dad nor would you want to.  And if he does love me he sure has a sick way of showing it.  If it’s any consolation my mother is no better.

      I’m perfectly capable of standing up for myself and I think that there are definitely cases where dads get a raw deal from family courts etc but vile bile like yours does nothing to add value to the argument.  It’s just bile.

    • Karen says:

      10:48am | 08/02/11

      Ray, Perhaps these women you seem so terrified of are trying to get rid of men like you, not the entire male gender. Frankly I don’t blame them. You, my friend, are as crazy as a coconut.

      Good luck with that

    • Ray says:

      11:11am | 08/02/11

      Well how can I answer you respondents?

      Firstly you’ve all been done over.

      My daughter isn’t stupid, neither my wife or mother (or father for that matter). But none of them went on a hell bent course to denigrate men with unreserved enthusiasm such as the collective womens front.

      So if you get back what women have dished out and can’t handle it then you have a problem. I didn’t ask women in general to act towards men in the manner they have, but I sure ain’t going to accept it either.

      ‘Terrified’ of women? Well there’s a parody.

      I cannot believe that one gender can be so denigrating to the other and expect respect in return. Hey, I may be wrong but you need to come up with fresh evidence.

      Women have to ask themselves are they proud of their course of action, because what I say is no worse than their well trodden path.

    • James1 says:

      11:40am | 08/02/11

      “Smart women and UFOs, - haven’t seen either.” 8.58am.

      Do your daughter and mother have penises?

      Either that or you flop around worse than Julia Gillard.

    • B says:

      11:58am | 08/02/11

      obvious troll is obvious

    • Elphaba says:

      12:02pm | 08/02/11

      @James1, you’re wasting your time.

      Ray’s inflammatory comments don’t apply to the women he calls his ‘wife’ and ‘daughter’ hog-tied in his basement.

    • Ray says:

      12:02pm | 08/02/11

      James you fool, you do NOT have the right to say my daughter or wife has penises. I’m afraid you have reached your intellectual limit, mental capacity, and feel safe with that comment from an anonomous sanctity.

    • Ray says:

      12:28pm | 08/02/11

      Elphaba, so are you wasting your time. You and James should get together, pool your thoughts and come up with other quantum leap conclusions.

    • James1 says:

      12:31pm | 08/02/11

      Ray,

      I did not say they did.  You did that.

      You claim never to have met a smart woman at 8.58am.  At 11.11am you say that your daughter, mother and wife are not dumb.  Therefore, according to your own logic, they must have penises.  Either that or you have reached your intellectual limit, and then taken a few steps further.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:20pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray, if you’re going to make broad sweeping generalisations, you can’t be surprised when I throw insults back.  You obviously came on here for a fight, so don’t bitch when people disagree with you.

    • Ray says:

      01:42pm | 08/02/11

      James and Ephaba, get together. 2 halves don’t necessarily mean a whole. As in 2 brains don’t necessarily make a whole. Whole lot of difference that is. And James you are word transplanting,

    • Elphaba says:

      01:58pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray, that’s the best you got?  Boo hoo - you already think I’m stupid because I possess an vagina, come up with something new.  What exactly do you set out to do when you come on here ranting about women and how they’ve metaphorically chopped off your ding-dong?

      If it’s making a dead-set idiot of yourself, mission accomplished.  I feel sorry for your ‘wife’ and ‘daughter’.  Are they aware that you’re mentally unbalanced?

    • Mark says:

      03:28pm | 08/02/11

      If you are right about “man-hating feminists” (you’re not, but for argument’s sake) it is because of misogynists like you.

    • bec says:

      05:54pm | 08/02/11

      Er, just to be a pedantic pain in the arse (again), but you do know that a “quantum leap” is a very, very tiny thing indeed, Ray? So perhaps you’re on the money when they accuse you of having basement babies?

    • Ray says:

      06:49pm | 08/02/11

      Mark. Good.

      Elphaba, ‘Is that hte best you’ve got’. I said that phrase to you a week ago. So that’s plaguerism. Not very original

      Bec, your comprehension needs some work.

      Cheers to all your half wits. Without your anatomy you’d need re-invention.

    • Elphaba says:

      07:16pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray, we spoke a week ago?  It must not have been very memorable!

      Look, I do think there is something seriously wrong with how the sexes relate to one another.  But how you go about it, does not make you a part of the solution, it makes you part of the problem.  It doesn’t make you worthy of reasoned debate, only worth of ridicule.  A whinger is still a whinger, no matter what junk is between their legs.  And you sir, are a grade A whinger.

      But please.  Do continue to blog here.  You provide endless entertainment with your vagina conspiracy theories.  I look forward to hearing more.

    • Ray says:

      01:02pm | 09/02/11

      Sorry to be a bit tardy Alphaba, but I have to admit I was being unfaithful. No it wasn’t all that memorable, but you do remember we did more than speak, and you were very grateful at the time. Whinging Alphaba, well women have refined it to an art form. O pain in the arse isn’t it.

      Over and out.

    • Lucius says:

      07:23am | 08/02/11

      My father was a sperm donor - he impregnated my 16 year old mother (he was 30), then ran off never to be heard from again.

      My thoughts? I frankly couldnt give a rats arse about him. He is not in my life, not part of my life and if he ever comes back running he will be rejected.

      Why is is so important to know who your biological parents are? Will it make you a better or lesser person to know?

      Cant you just be happy with the fact that someone donated a part of themselves so that you could have life?

      Reply

    • Ray says:

      08:28am | 08/02/11

      Lucius, sounds like you do give a rats, otherwhise why so fired up. Shot yourself in the foot

    • Rose says:

      09:02am | 08/02/11

      How is stating facts getting “fired up” Ray? Im the same as Lucius, if my father ever wanted to come back into my life I would tell him to go jump off a cliff too, doesnt mean I give a rats arse it just means I dont want him in my life.

    • Ray says:

      09:30am | 08/02/11

      Rose, Why are you being gender specific. Thought Lucius was being vehement, hence the ‘fired up’

    • Bilby says:

      09:33am | 08/02/11

      Rose - Like Lucius, the fact that you convey strong emotions in your words indicates clearly that you do in fact give a rat’s arse. You’re pissed off and resentful. Why deny it?

      If you truly didn’t care, then you’d be receptive to your biological father as you would to any human being, but you have judged him and decided that he is not worthy of the emotional turmoil that allowing him back into your life would cause. Am I completely of track?

    • James says:

      09:53am | 08/02/11

      Bilby and Ray, why in the world would ANYONE give their time and understanding to a man who got a 16 year old girl pregnant then ran away from his responsibilities?

      Surely if you your receptive to a relationship with a man who rejected you and left a 16 year old girl to raise you alone, as opposed to not wanting anything to do with them, it would show that you “care”.

    • still_denied says:

      09:55am | 08/02/11

      As a baby stolen from it’s birth mother by societal pressure (British class system, shame and religion) I assert that for me it’s proven extremely important to have the relevant medical history.

      I had no idea that Rheumatoid Arthritis ran in my family until it belted me at age 40. Had I known earlier that I was susceptible I could have lessened the amount of injury, been more aware of diet and exercise. I probably could have chosen less extreme sports therefore minimising the impact of the RA onset.

      My only blood relative is my son and who knows what he could be inheriting?

      But unlike Australia’s stolen generation I have been given no counseling,  financial compensation, and forcibly prevented from locating any ancestral sense of belonging. (Not that the indigenous claims are any less important, just that I have no means of legal redress - all records destroyed according to grandparental whim.

      Yes I was adopted (thrown out with the garbage) but made to feel as if it was my fault and that I was a financial burden. Even though I had no say in the process at 5/6 months of age!

      Unless information was, at the time, lodged by the British birth mother/father or their British parents in the Adopted Children’s Register I was legally, emotionally and medically refused access to my past.

      It’s only when it happens to you that you ever really understand what how devastating that knowledge gap can be - its visceral.

    • Bilby says:

      10:06am | 08/02/11

      James - Caring is not necessarily a positive thing. Lucius and Rose may well care that this guy gets whats coming to him. They care that he stays the hell away from them. What they are not is ambivalent, and that to me would be not caring.

    • JAX says:

      12:13pm | 08/02/11

      @Still denied your situation is different to the sperm donor debate, i myself am pregnant through sperm donation, not through a clinic i went on a holiday, had one drink and woke up naked one morning (among other drunken incidents) and have no idea who the father is (whoops) oh well, i am not going to go back trying to find who it was either

    • Elphaba says:

      12:22pm | 08/02/11

      @JAX, did you intend to go on an insemination holiday?

    • JAX says:

      01:49pm | 08/02/11

      I did indeed, cheaper than IUI hahahah

    • Elphaba says:

      02:39pm | 08/02/11

      @JAX - so a baby, with a side of sexually transmitted disease, is a good bet?

      Nice.  When the desire to have a child overwhelms personal safety.  You go girl.  Ray should be focusing his vitriol on you, instead of womankind in general.

    • JAX says:

      04:14pm | 08/02/11

      @Elphaba - lets see, went to a location frequented by US military who have constant health checks and only slept with them, pretty sure my drugged out stupor were thanks to marines as well. 3 months and 2 blood tests later and clean bill of health so yeah a good bet

    • Elphaba says:

      06:25pm | 08/02/11

      @JAX, picture this conversaton:

      “So Mum, what was it like the night you met Dad?”
      “Well, I can’t really remember, you see I was completely drugged out of my tree.  You see, it turns out, men are only good for impregnating desperate women who no one originally wanted to have babies with in the first place!  Always remember that.”

      Pretty sick.  You probably thought using some bloke as a sperm donor was justified, since men had treated you so badly, huh?  Shame.

    • Bilby says:

      09:56am | 09/02/11

      NEFFA - Those two have said all sorts of things, and I agree with NicoleG and others. It’s not right to stick Eric[k] in with Ray. That aside, if you know your feminist history, you’d know the role that radicals and extremists play in the grand scheme of things. Their job is to make moderates like me look moderate. Works doesn’t it?

      JAX - Yeah baby… you won. Alone and pregnant. If only I could get some of that sweet action.

    • Blazes says:

      07:56am | 08/02/11

      The right to know who your biological mother and father is should be a basic human right - the people who decided to physically create you should take responsibility.

      Reply

    • acotrel says:

      08:23am | 08/02/11

      Blazes, perhaps we should just be happy to be on the right side of the grass?

    • Blazes says:

      08:59am | 08/02/11

      acotrel, I’m sorry, I may be an idiot, but I have NO idea what you’re talking about - please explain!

    • Ray says:

      09:36am | 08/02/11

      Blazes, I think Acotril is tautology enhanced, means in ’ the other paddock,’ ‘other side of the fence’, ‘left footer’, ‘gay blade’. or may be he just means above the grass rather than below it. Anyhow I’m tired.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      10:07am | 08/02/11

      I think he means ‘‘alive’’

      ie on top of the grass rather than under it

    • JAX says:

      12:16pm | 08/02/11

      why is it a human right? why not be happy with being alive than analysing things to death? we play the hand we’re dealt, don’t go wishing for a new shuffle

    • AdamC says:

      08:28am | 08/02/11

      I would be very concerned if any ‘right to know’ was applied retrospectively. That is clearly unjust. However, donor children should be able to obtain relevant genetic and family medical history information about their donor for health reasons.

      To the people who claim an inherent right to know that should supersede the arrangements made at the time of donation - do you think the donor would necessarily have provided their sperm if they knew they would be identified decades later? My guess is they likely wouldn’t and the donor child would never have existed. So let’s keep things in perspective.

      Reply

    • Ray says:

      08:38am | 08/02/11

      The Family Law Court doesn’t give a stuff about legit fathers in a full family arrangement, so why worry about donors.

      The societal value of fathers is zilch so why change.

      We have progressed at the behest of women to our own peril. I’m sure our society is headed for demise. Historians will then be asking what happened to this civilisation as is done for Mayan, Inca, Chinese, Roman, Egyptian and other distinctive civilisations some advanced further than our present position. The common thread is self destruction, which we are achieving, in haste within the milenium of time, aided and abetted by misguided social imperitives usually to suit women.

      Who cares who the father is? - No one. Donor, natural conceiver , or just down right good bloke. But that’s how women want it.

      Reply

    • Tom says:

      09:29am | 08/02/11

      Stop bleating Ray and get yourself snipped.

    • Ray says:

      10:06am | 08/02/11

      Too late Tom, but I would, at the risk of indebting the world to more like you.

      Talking of sheep and ‘bleating’ to which you seem to have some affinity; Did you hear of Jim Killen in parliament being forced to apologise to Tom Daley for saying ‘Tom has the brains of a sheep’. When asked to apologise Jim thought for a minute and then said ‘OK Tom hasn’t got the brains of a sheep’.

      The moral of the story being if you act like a sheep, look like a sheep, and smell like a sheep, well may be you are a sheep. Tom, whether your last name is Daley or not, have a close look around you in whatever paddock you are in. If they smile you’ll be ‘snipped’.

    • Rose says:

      10:48am | 08/02/11

      I just hope that Ray has no daughters. He is so full of blind hatred toward women that any female offspring of his would inevitably suffer under his delusions. While there are a minimal number of women who are radical feninists, most women just want to get along in the world, they want to be able to live their lives, make their own choices and not be treated as the lesser sex as used to be the case, Men who are capable of thinking clearly want the same thing, a world where people are judged solely on their merits, not their sex, culture, colour or religion. I’m not sure what you think happened to you Ray, but if this is the way you truly think and behave, it was probably self-inflicted.

    • Ray says:

      11:25am | 08/02/11

      No Rose, not self inflicted, but a direct reaction to the feminist agenda and subsequent outcmes. Women mostly profess your ‘equality’ prognosis and then proceed to benefit or adopt the leverage provided you against men and for female advancement. The ‘darlings’ who love their spouses until separation and then vent untold retribution upon them are the succinct example. I remain married in case you wonder and have a balanced daughter and son.

      Do we have to handicap young men in education, under affirmative action, and for example with accelerated promotion schemes selective to women.

      A ‘minimal’ number of radical feminists?. Well bugger me you all thrive on their actions.

      Feminist actions are beyond what is reasonable, and society has swallowed this hoax to men’s detriment and ultimately to society’s detriment

    • JAX says:

      12:19pm | 08/02/11

      if you don’t like the way things are do something about it, women have gotten these laws changed in our favour by being loud and opinionated and not giving up because it was too hard, granted some have taken it too far, but you can’t paint every woman with the same brush, your experiences or friends experiences may have been sad but not all women are like this

    • Ray says:

      12:33pm | 08/02/11

      Well there you go JAX if to be loud and opinionated, why the problem with my comments. Beats me. On the ‘every woman’ bit ,they mostly all avail themselves to it if it suits, right or wrong makes no difference.

    • NEFFA says:

      01:46pm | 08/02/11

      ray - whinging on an on-line blog is not going to get the gubberment to listen. Women formed groups and campaigned politicians and the media to have themselves heard. What have you done?
      Face it sunshine, we just have better PR.

    • Bilby says:

      02:02pm | 08/02/11

      NEFFA - To my mind there is no doubt that women achieved what they did, as you say, due to collective activism. I would point out though that *nothing* would have come of it had it not been for the decency and right thinking of the men in power at the time.

      To me it is fair for a man to feel a certain resentment when his benevolence is thrown back in his face. I’m not crediting Ray with said benevolence, but it is a common factor among decent men that I know.

      Don’t let the enemy define you.

    • Ray says:

      02:04pm | 08/02/11

      Neffa, What have you done?

    • NEFFA says:

      03:11pm | 08/02/11

      be careful what you say Bilby. Eric and Ray have been arguing for months that women were never oppressed and its all just feminist dogma changing the face of history.

      By admitting that we ever needed the benevolence of men to give us equality you are admitting that there was oppression.

      i dont believe men are the enemy. My Dad is my hero and i adore my brothers and my nephew. i just get annoyed at some men who have had it too good for too long and now feel like they have lost something because the ladies have job outside the home.

    • JAX says:

      03:15pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray - we don’t have to do a thing, previous generations have already done our work for us, the law sides with us, woo hoo, boo hoo you guys miss out, you’re the one bitching about the unfairness on an online blog, i don’t think the policy makers read it or care what you write here. just like they don’t care when idiots take to the streets blocking them with their protests, who cares? we win

    • NicoleG says:

      04:30pm | 08/02/11

      NEFFA, please don’t put Erick in to the same basket as Ray. He’s not like him in any way.

    • Ray says:

      06:42pm | 08/02/11

      JAX women have taken bitching and whinging to a new level.  The composite of your character from your blogs leaves a bit to be desired. You sound like a 12 schooner eye goggles, for want of a better word, ‘root’.

      NEFFA so in other words you did nothing.

      for Nicole G, Merry Christmas.

    • JAX says:

      08:27am | 09/02/11

      @Ray - and i am a fantastic root and feel no shame about it, why settle for one when i can have more? i am young and open to anything hahaha

      we still won

    • Markus says:

      08:43am | 08/02/11

      I know who my biological father is, I’d prefer I didn’t.

      To be honest, when you have one or two real parents - the oness that raised and love you your entire life - I don’t see the obsession with trying to find the identity of someone who clearly isn’t in any way interested in having you in their life.

      Reply

    • Thommo says:

      09:39am | 08/02/11

      Yeah I wish my half-brother thought the same way. I didn’t know he existed until last year and now he wants to meet us all. Well I for one don’t want to know him or have anything to do with him.

    • Brett says:

      10:06am | 08/02/11

      A mate of mine was the same. He never called his biological father ‘Dad’ even though he knew him. He skipped out on my mates mum when he was a little fella, and the next guy, father of his two half siblings became his ‘dad’ and always has been. He’s the guy who raised him, gave him values and loved him, he is his dad. He doesn’t want to see his sperm donor dad, he sisn’t want ot be part of his life, so screw him.

    • Scarneck says:

      12:46pm | 08/02/11

      Hear Hear Brett says: 10:06am, I couldn’t give two hoots about my biological father, my step-father was the man I loved and adored, he taught me right from wrong and I can’t thank him enough, he treated me as one of his own - more than I can say for that prick I call my biological father, karma catches up with all of us at some stage.

    • Bilby says:

      08:54am | 08/02/11

      This isn’t a sperm donor story, but a story that shows that people sometimes *never* stop wanting to know their father.

      A couple of years ago, my dad sadly passed away. In sorting out his affairs, mum came across a hand addressed letter to dad that had arrived after he died. That letter turned out to be from my hither to unknown half brother who was still reaching out to dad in his 60s, despite dads rejection for reasons that I will never understand. I have since had dinner with my brother several times and it is eery how close to dad he is in appearance and mannerisms. Familial links are integral to who we are, and that sense of unknown can be debilitating. While I’m not for retrospective changes to legislation, I do understand why people are challenging the right to anonymity. It would seem that when it comes to ethics the issues surrounding procreation are the murkiest of all.

      Reply

    • Jane says:

      07:59am | 09/02/11

      I tracked down the half brother I know about at age 16 but could only do it because he had kept in contact with our grandmother. Our father didnt have contact with him till I was 18 which meant from age 6 months till age 23 my father had no part in his life.

      In the strange way that genes work I have more in common with this half brother whom I didnt meet till I was 16 than I do with my 2 full blood brothers whom I grew up with.

      He still has loose contact with my father (mainly through major events in my life) but our genetic father is not his Dad, his Dad is his step father.

      Btw, I say the half brother I know because I know my father had numerous affairs during both his marriages and in all the years of singledom, there could easily be hundreds of siblings I dont know about.

    • mummy says:

      08:54am | 08/02/11

      Everyone has the right to know their genetic heritage. These decisions are made only thinking about a baby and raising a child, no one looks at the bigger picture. How would you feel if you looked in the mirror and wondered why your face looks nothing like anyone from your immediate family? Or why you suffer from allergies and no one else in your family does?
      Its a shame that we live in a selfish society where people want things and then ‘bang!’ there is a market for it.

      Sperm donors should have to give their details and understand they will get a knock on the door one day from an adult wanting to find their genetic link. It’s human nature to want to belong and be curious. This does not mean a father/child bond will be sort or financial support.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      11:43am | 08/02/11

      Sperm donors do understand that. It’s why they are in such incredibly low supply nowadays.

    • Mark Topping says:

      08:56am | 08/02/11

      Surely the rights of the children must be given priority. After all, these children were concieved under no fault of there own.

      If men want to donate their sperm for monetary or other reasons, they should be willing to take responsibility for their actions.

      Society at large will not benefit from more children simply becoming commodities to selfish adult individuals. All children deserve the right to know their biological mother and father.

      Reply

    • Tom says:

      09:32am | 08/02/11

      2 donors in SA. Everyone has rights except the poor old wanker.

    • Loxy says:

      09:53am | 08/02/11

      I think the laws at the time of sperm donation should take precedant as it is grossly unfair to apply any new laws retrospectively. If a man donates sperm he has a right to expect that whatever laws are in place at that time will always be the ones that apply to him and his sperm donation.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      10:13am | 08/02/11

      No child has a say in their conception, we all just get on with the life we are given. Childless couples wanting children is hardly grounds for considering a child a commodity. I don’t know what it would be like not to know your parents or one parent, perhaps it is a burning question for some that is hard to set aside. However, I believe the change to the identification of sperm donors should not be retrospective unless the donor also agrees. They may well have not donated under the current law. The adult has rights in this matter as well and I don’t see that children have superior rights, only equal.

    • DG says:

      10:42am | 08/02/11

      Mark,

      The situation that you are talking about is one in which the persons concerned knew full well the legal implications of their behaviour and made a decision based on their legal rights as they existed at the time.

      It is unfair and inhumane to threaten members of the public with retrospective consequences for behaviour that is, in effect protected by the State. The alternative is for the State to betray the trust and confidence of law abiding citizens.

    • jimmyvanilla says:

      12:49pm | 08/02/11

      @OchreBunyip: the very fact that no child has a say in their conception is the reason we need to make sure they have a say, when they become adults, as to whether they would like to know their biological parents and this mean making donors accountable for their decisions.

    • John Dark says:

      12:49am | 09/02/11

      A few years ago I was asked by 2 women of my acquaintance to be a sperm donor, with the assurance - freely given - of complete anonymity and no financial responsibility. I’m no Adonis, but apparently I tick the vast majority of the right genetic boxes and I must admit I was flattered. After much thought on both cases, I politely refused, and now I’m bloody glad I did so. I just couldn’t trust that the situation wouldn’t change to my detriment, so I decided to err on the side of caution. Yes, it may have been selfish of me, but I’m not the one in deep shit now, am I? I hasten to add that while I am still friends with the ladies in question and they have 2 very cute kids, I feel no regrets for my decision and this article has backed it up 100%.
      Guys, don’t become a sperm donor - it simply just isn’t worth it unless you want to be the one screwed in the long run. And not in the fun way.
      You may say I’m only considering the negative outcomes, but I would respond that anyone who doesn’t give greater weight to the negative than the positive IN THIS SITUATION is just a bit delusional. The possibility of it coming back to bite you on the arse (and wallet) is greater than finding out you may have wonderful progeny (especially in this day and age of raising little selfish spoiled monsters).

    • Jane says:

      08:03am | 09/02/11

      Okay Mark, would you like to know that you were conceived because your mother had an affair and that the person you have considered to be your biological father really isnt? Hah, you have just said its your right to know who your biological parents are.

    • Adoptee says:

      08:57am | 08/02/11

      As an adopted child I think a sense of family is extremely important. That’s why I’m glad I have an aunt on both sides of the family who developed in interest in genealogy. I know can see the history of both sides of my family.

      As for the womb and sperm donors, who cares? They have never been nor never will be my family. To even consider them family would be a massive insult to the parents who invested so much love into my upbringing.

      I know who my parents are. They’re the people who made me the person I am today not some hypothetical pseudo parents who only possibly live in my imagination. A night of fooling around might produce a child but it doesn’t necessarily make you parents

      Reply

    • Dan says:

      08:58am | 08/02/11

      Sperm donation can get very messy (no pun intended).
      If you don’t want unexpected kids, then don’t donate your sperm to strangers.

      Reply

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      09:18am | 08/02/11

      Maybe if they offered blowjobs they might increase the donor level.

      Reply

    • Duff says:

      09:53am | 08/02/11

      It is not just sperm donors who need to be wary, but in-vitro couples as well because they are given the option of donating their unused, fertilised eggs (embryos) for use by other couples.  Any child produced will have the same right to know who his parents are at the age of 18.  As a result of this risk, couples usually ask to have their unused embryos destroyed.  An incredible waste of money and potential in my view.

      Reply

    • Thommo says:

      10:08am | 08/02/11

      Why don’t people adopt - then we’d have no need for sperm donors. It seems the selfish people in this are the people that seek Sperm Donors when they could just as easily adopt. But no, it’s all about them.

      Reply

    • Duff says:

      10:52am | 08/02/11

      You would be very surprised to learn that there is a huge waiting list for adoption.  Adoption of babies, that is.  People actually go to great lengths, like adopting from overseas, to acquire a baby because they can’t get one domestically.  Adopting an older child, however, is relatively easy.

    • JAX says:

      12:24pm | 08/02/11

      adoption is incredibly difficult in this country even overseas adoption, can cost up to 30K and take up to 10 years to get through the red tape (a friends experience) sperm donor is easier and cheaper, or just do what i did

    • D says:

      01:50pm | 08/02/11

      You can’t adopt what isn’t there.  Check out the adotpion statistics.  Due to changes in policy over the last couple of decades, there’s far less children put up for adoption locally (within Australia).  You can look at long term foster care, however, the system there is tilted towards maintain the original family unit, so you can’t always keep the child to raise - which is what people who wish to adopt/IVF/sperm donor etc are seeking.

      As mentioned already, overseas adoption is timeconsuming, expensive and have a lot of rules and restrictions.

    • Balala says:

      10:34am | 08/02/11

      As I understand it, Sweden (I think) changed their laws to making anonymous donations illegal. While there was an initial drop off, sperm donations soon increased. Those who were now donating were middle-aged men who have had their children, and were happy to help childless couples have their own. They generally consent to being contacted by the donor offspring, and it hasn’t caused the family tragedy that this article is talking about.
      Yes, you will get those who men who want to remain anonymous. But there are also plenty of men who are happy to have contact with their donor offspring.
      A Senate Committee has looked in to the issue of Donor Conception in Australia and will be tabling their report this week. Judging by the submissions, it’ll be a fascinating read.
      http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/legcon_ctte/donor_conception/index.htm

      Reply

    • Ray Graham says:

      10:56am | 08/02/11

      Well true to form, the usual suspects have come out of the closet not realising many comments are there merely to evoke bigoted responses (apart from genuine responses like from ‘still_denied’) to expose the shallow minds of the many.  I mean the majority of these responses just refer to self centred idealism of the type for which feminism is responsible.
      Step back and look at such issues with integrity and honour and you would not address an article ‘Why should kids give a toss about sperm donor dads’ - any dads.

      These are matters that should be handled with more integrity, foresight and principal. We tip toe around such issues to please minority groups and women. Genuine couples with genuine problems should be assisted. But please we should have the strength to deny designer ‘Eltons’ or lesbians or single females who want a lifestyle without the social commitment of the genuine family. Now all the protagonists can say what they like with the predictable stereotype about the wife bashing drunk father who molests his child in between numerous affairs. Well check today’s Telegraph where the two sex offenders are fermale, just showing that women are as bent if not moreso, but usually hide under the cloak of social cover tending towards ambivalence or tacit endorsement.

      My point of summary is to jetison your narrow mindsets and stand by with conviction to what you know is right. We need a clean out of social legislation because the cumulative effect of ‘feel good’, ‘accommodation for all’ politics, with cross section effect’ is debilitating to overall life principles. Meanwhile welcome ALL fathers back to the family unit. Or am I imagining the feminist endeavour to make fathers optional. I don’t think so, as we’ve now displayed realisation of the error of our ways.  Please think before demonstrating some endemic illiteracy.

      The social issue here is not the ‘giving a toss’ or not, but the circumstances in which donor sperm is to be used. Individuals don’t have the mind power to decide.

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      11:24am | 08/02/11

      So when you say that you have never met a smart woman, you were trolling?  And you call others shallow?

      Or is this a different Ray?

    • Ray says:

      12:25pm | 08/02/11

      James, your three line responses are rapier incisive. Bit like the one about the difference between opium, a forty watt globe, and a woman. One is a plant, one is dull and pear shape, the other is a dull slow working dope.

    • kate says:

      12:37pm | 08/02/11

      Ray, get your prejudices off my family.  My partner and I are “a genuine couple” and my daughter and her mothers are a “genuine family”. 

      You are the one who needs to “jettison your narrow midsets” and open your mind to the reality that families come in all shapes and sizes, and your cookie-cutter model is not the only valid option.

    • JAX says:

      01:07pm | 08/02/11

      the ‘genuine family’ hasn’t been around that long so how can it be genuine? why shouldn’t single parents or gay/lesbian couples have kids? isn’t love what’s most important? the love of a child? if these people are so desperate to have a child wouldn’t they then love that child to the best of their ability like a husband and wife? i’m single and pregnant, i am not looking for a government handout or child support from the father (i don’t know who he is granted but i wouldn’t ask him for help in any case) i want this baby, i already feel so much love for it, how is that wrong?

    • James1 says:

      01:23pm | 08/02/11

      “the other [the woman] is a dull slow working dope” at 12.25pm.

      “My daughter isn’t stupid, neither my wife or mother (or father for that matter).” at 11.11 am.

      Are you sure they are women?

      I like the way your response to people pointing out how inconsistent you are is insults.  Good luck with that.

    • Ray says:

      02:10pm | 08/02/11

      JAX ‘won’t ask for child support or government handout’. Typical ethics that get thrown out the window when convenient. Don’t know who he is? One night stand?. More convenient use of a man. Please, you are the antithesis.  Stuff the spelling

    • JAX says:

      03:12pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray i think it was equal using of each sex, i did get drugged one night and i don’t blame all guys for that, a woman can’t win with you, you complain about women taking money from men, child support whatever and when i say i am not going to wow you harp on how i got pregnant! i am not the first woman and if they wont put on the rain coat no my fault of the consequences and it was more than one, 2 week holiday, different guy a night sometimes 2, it was an excellent holiday

    • Jane says:

      05:09pm | 08/02/11

      @Ray Graham Does that mean that single females who’ve been left alone and pregnant by there partner/husband aren’t a ‘genuine family’? Or single Dad’s (like mine) weren’t a ‘proper’ family because their wife wasn’t interested in being a mum? Families come in all shapes and sizes and just because they are not ‘Mum, Dad and two kids’ does not mean they aren’t a proper family and can’t provide a loving environment for that child.

      I say good on sperm donors for helping otherwise childless couples realise a wish to have a family…no matter if they are black, white, yellow, straight, single or homosexual!

      I also don’t think the laws should be changed retrospectivly. It’s unfair to people who may not have donated at the time if that was the case.

    • John Dark says:

      12:57am | 09/02/11

      JAX said: “...i’m single and pregnant, i am not looking for a government handout or child support from the father…”
      Sorry to sound cynical, but could we please have that in a nice clear, legally-binding contract? If we could enshrine that in an irrefutable law, maybe the donors might be easier to find. But of course you can’t trust the Govt not to change things later on and not make it retrospective, so I guess things will stay as they are.

    • JAX says:

      08:24am | 09/02/11

      @John Dark - considering i have no idea who the father is, i didn’t even ask names then how can i possible track him down to get money? i have a job that will let me work from home so will still get paid why would i need government assistance?

    • Erick says:

      11:15am | 08/02/11

      I suspect that Ray’s attitude is the product of being subjected to decades of anti-male feminist propaganda from media, governments and the education system.

      I know mine is.

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      11:38am | 08/02/11

      But your attitude is miles away from Ray’s, Erick.  They don’t really bear comparison.  You dislike the agenda of radical feminists, for largely logical reasons.  Ray thinks that all women are stupid, that people who disagree with him are bigots, and that men who have collaborative relationships with their wives are weak and spineless.  I know for a fact from previous discussions that you do not think these things.

      I think your attitude is formed by what you say.  I think Ray has just been treating people like rubbish for a long time, but is too arrogant to look to his own behaviour as an explanation for why people hate him.  So instead he blames women.

    • Ray says:

      12:43pm | 08/02/11

      Oh James, the quantum leap again, and incisive psychological analysis. You of many skills. Mate, you rally are a an insipid example of insignificance who can analyse any individual from afar. What envious skills. From what I’ve seen of your blogs you only ever analyse the contributors without a point of view on the subject matter.  Most of your analysis is intelligent deficient with a distinct imaturity. 

      Anyhow stick with what ever rocks your boat. But it certainly isn’t hard driven opinion.

    • Erick says:

      12:57pm | 08/02/11

      Well, that’s rather kind of you to say, James1. Thank you.

      I have noticed, in my Internet travels among the men’s rights movement, that there are various attitudes - from a demand for simple justice, to outright misogyny. These, of course, mirror the attitudes of feminists.

      As always, individuals within a group will vary. I’m not too comfortable with the blatant misogynists, but since I get lumped in with them every time I question a feminist sacred cow, I do have some sympathy.

    • James1 says:

      01:32pm | 08/02/11

      Indeed Ray, I love to examine the contributions here.  It is what I do best.  Also, my own opinions are often covered very well by others, and I see no use in repeating them as it would add nothing to the debate.

    • Ray says:

      01:37pm | 08/02/11

      Hey Eric I’ll give you the benefit of not lumping me with serial misogiysts. I’m a bi- product. James the genius is attempting a bit of divide and rule.

    • Ray says:

      01:49pm | 08/02/11

      James, ‘examine contributions’, ‘what I do best’. Well you’ve got a sense of humour to boot. There is scope for improvement

    • James1 says:

      01:56pm | 08/02/11

      No, Ray.  I am holding you to account for the things you write.  I actually agree with many of the things Erick says, because they make sense and there is an inexorable logic to the way he thinks.  Saying that all women are dumb because you have been mistreated by some in the public service (as you outline below) does not makes sense.  I have been mistreated by a few men during my public service career - should I hate men?

      It is not divide and rule, because there are genuine differences between your perspective and that of Erick.  You are different creatures to begin with.

    • Cate P says:

      11:20am | 08/02/11

      Well, der, kids should know who their biological father is, otherwise they might end up unwittingly in sexual relationships with their half-siblings, or even their dads.  Think about it.  Eeuw.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      02:00pm | 08/02/11

      Let it be a valuable lesson to not go sleeping around with people old enough to be your mother/father, which is Ewww enough in its own right.

    • Jane says:

      08:07am | 09/02/11

      So if you have an affair and happen to conceive, despite being married to someone else, you will sit down and tell the kid who their biological father is? I congratulate you on your courage and your honesty as I suspect most wouldnt.

      If your husband had an affiar and conceived a kid, would you want to know and want to tell your kids that they have a half sibling?

    • Elphaba says:

      11:26am | 08/02/11

      The option to remain anoymous should be there.  If you want to get to know the resulting children you provided your genetic material for, fine.  If you don’t that should be respected as well.  Options, not rules.

      Reply

    • Laura says:

      12:00pm | 08/02/11

      I just dropped by to comment on the delicious word play of ‘give a toss’ about their sperm donor dads. Nicely done.

      Reply

    • KH says:

      12:10pm | 08/02/11

      Cate P was one of the few who pointed out one obvious flaw in the ‘anonymous’ system - the chance that you might end up in a relationship with a half sibling…...  I don’t know - that seems like an important consideration to me, given that the magical genes that don’t mutate with inbreeding only exist in fairy stories - not in the real world.  As this donor situation becomes more common, the chances are greater that this might happen.

      Then there is genetic history to consider - what if there is a history of cancer or heart problems in a family?  Or mental illness?  Shouldn’t a person be allowed to know this?  If not for themselves, at least for their own children. 

      This urge to know these things doesn’t just happen to adopted kids - I’m not adopted but have been thwarted in my family history search due to an apparent name change (not legal!) by a great grandfather - it would be nice to know if there are other family members out there, or where they came from.  Or where I can trace my heritage to.  Genealogy is a very popular activity.  Too bad for future generations tracing their family history - what, they will just have a picture of a test tube in that spot?  How sad and horrible. 

      I don’t think it should be anonymous, but the law should be clear about obligations to any children - or lack thereof as the case may be.  Donors should never be called upon to pay child support or give any other kind of support to the parent/s.  But they should be known to any children they might have helped produce - along with some ability of the child to know if there are medical issues, and if there are other children by the same father.

      Reply

    • JAX says:

      01:01pm | 08/02/11

      when you donate sperm you put a family medical history and as long as your parents were not born out of incest the chance of any medical problems are slim (a friend told me, i have not donated myself haha)

    • marley says:

      02:18pm | 08/02/11

      Genetic testing is available for most of the major hereditary diseases, these days, so I’m not really sure that’s a valid issue.

    • Rebecca says:

      12:18pm | 08/02/11

      Who cares if you were conceived from a “sperm donor” - it is the person who raised you that is your Dad. What about his feelings? He has held you, supported you, played games with you, encouraged you and loved you - isn’t that enough? I don’t understand why people are never happy with what they’ve got…the only valid reason for chasing down a sperm donor would be if there was a medical condition that required either more information or perhaps a blood/marrow donation… You already know where you came from, who your family is and who you are and if you don’t then you need to look at what you have…
      Rant over : )

      Reply

    • Kate says:

      12:41pm | 08/02/11

      “You already know where you came from, who your family is and who you are and if you don’t then you need to look at what you have”  Very well said Rebecca! 

      My daughter knows who her donor is - he’s a great guy, and he is part of her life, in a ad hoc, ‘uncle’ kind of way, and he contributed half her genetics, which is hugely important but does NOT make him her parent.

      She knows who her parents are.  There’s no confusion.

      Both her mothers are listed on her birth certificate.  Her donor is not.

      (Now watch Ray’s head explode)

    • D says:

      01:42pm | 08/02/11

      Exactly.  I’m adopted, I’ve never had any desire to meet my biological parents because they aren’t my family.

      When people ask me if I know who my ‘real parents’ are, I tell them that would be the ones who raised me.  I can’t believe people would insult my mother and father by defining them as not real because they dont’ share a blood link.  Who cares?

      I was raised by parents who wanted me, loved me and cared for me, in an extended family that never once differentiated between myself and other children that were not adopted.  My family is the people who have been there my whole life, not the pair who accidently conceived a child they weren’t able to look after back in the 70s.

    • Ray says:

      06:53pm | 08/02/11

      Kate, you’ve played your cards. You cruel ingrate. Give the kid a chance. The world has to change to accommodate all you weirdos. Choose the sex I suppose.

    • DG says:

      12:40pm | 08/02/11

      KH -

      The half sibling thing can easily be determined by a blood test. There is no need to know the name or location of the father. More importantly, the risk of genetic abnormalities being caused by relations between ‘half siblings’ is very low indeed. Since responsible persons would be getting STI checks before participating in unprotected sex, adding on a test for relationship seems fairly reasonable in cases where there is doubt.

      The “genealogy hobby” argument is hardly a reasonable basis for setting aside State guaranteed anonymity.

      Blood tests can also give markers for genetic susceptibility to certain diseases (far more effectively than ‘family history’. For starters, you have know way of knowing whether you have the genetic condition just because one parent had it. You know the prevalence rates, but if it’s about knowing, surely a blood test would be far more reasonable - and effective.

      Any siblings can have the opportunity to meet (with the consent of both parties) - as neither has been offered anonymity by the State. But it certainly should not be the right of one sibling to meet (or even contact) another sibling without the consent of that other sibling. Children could nominate (on the date of their 18th B’day) whether they wish to be contacted.

      Reply

    • Someone says:

      03:02pm | 08/02/11

      State guaranteed anonymity? Try again. There is nothing legal about this so-called anonymity. There is no signed contract, there is no legislature. I don’t know where people get this idea that it’s a legal precedent.

    • Cate P says:

      03:28pm | 08/02/11

      DG, so its okay with you that sperm donor kids are made to feel that there is something wrong with them in that they need blood tests before embarking on a sexual relationship to make sure they aren’t having it off with a half-sibling?  You see no yuk factor in that possibility needing to be in a young person’s mind?  You think stigmatising the child in that way is better than the child having the ability to find out who their biological father is?  I don’t understand your logic in this.  Easier to make a legal ban on sperm donor children making any other claim on the sperm donor apart from knowing the identity.

    • Ray says:

      01:15pm | 08/02/11

      For James 1 and the like, if you are really concerned about an anti female attitude I’ll let you know I was raised with great respect towards women (and not conceived by sperm donor).

      I have raised and devoied myself to my family and was unfrotunate to gravitate by merit to a high level in Federal Government employment. My biggest difficulty was with unconstrained affirmative action, exclusive mentoring of females, quotas, female only workshops, notice boards emblazoned with affirmative action/domestic violence intimidation, and wait for it, executive assessment on their promotion of females.

      I hated the environment, felt unwelcome, carried most of the responsibilitiy and was generally threatened if you wished to opinion against the travesties. But with kids and wife and few prospects of earning the significant dependent income elsewhere had to suffer this for around 15 years. So I am not wanting for anything other than warmth from the complimentary species.

      This with the general social ambiguities called ‘equality’ for example in education has left me with an unrequited distaste for women and all their invented inequalities while they sit astride social direction.

      What this has got to do with sperm donors and giving a ‘toss’, I’m not sure,
      other than to say the direction of this argument will be determined by female imperative.

      Meanwhile women can continue with their relentless self serving obsession creating a more and more lopsided society but will receive no quarter from me.

      So my social upbringing has made me wonder what I ever did to a female to warrant the course which I am subjected to through social expedience. One thing is sure. My principals ingrained growing up are no longer relevant or warranted on a species that has turned favour to contempt. As for general warmth from the complimentary species, that would be a hollow ambiguous return.

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      01:50pm | 08/02/11

      Fair enough Ray - I would not contest what you are saying here at all, insofar as it applies to some women.  However, you are judging 50 percent of the human race on the basis of the actions of a small minority.  As I am sure you are aware through your contact with your wife, mother and daughter (who I do not think are stupid or have penises - I was just reminding you what you said about them), not all women are like that, just like not all men are raging misogynists who like their women barefoot and pregnant.

      As a father and husband myself, I find your disrepectful attitude towards women’s intelligence and your blanket assertion in relation to it offensive.  I would hope that you are trolling, but your immediate resort to ad hominem attacks on anyone that disagrees makes me wonder.

      To put it another way (with regard to your final paragraph), while living in Innisfail my family was treated badly by the Italians because we are Irish.  Would I be right to hate all Italians because of the actions of a few?  Your name sounds English to me, and my great grandmother had her house burnt down by Englishmen wearing black and tan uniforms.  Should I judge you based on the actions of the Black and Tans?

    • Erick says:

      01:51pm | 08/02/11

      Oh god, you poor bastard, working for the federal government whilst male.

      Luckily I managed to escape with my sanity - though only barely - and that was in the 90s. I can only imagine it’s become worse.

    • zoe says:

      09:24pm | 08/02/11

      James you’re stereotyping yourself my husband quite likes me barefoot and pregnant and in no way is he a raging misogynist he just thinks its sexy.

    • Dan says:

      01:52pm | 08/02/11

      Would you really want to know that your “dad” was a wanker ?!!!
      (boom boom)

      Reply

    • Laura says:

      02:35pm | 08/02/11

      Haha, well played sir, well played.

    • Bobby Huge says:

      02:17pm | 08/02/11

      Why would you ever want to find one of these ‘fathers’.  Knowing your pops was a wanker or jerk-off would be earth shattering.

      And these women just need to accept that they cannot be mothers.  Nothing wrong with a bit of scissoring but you need to love the pipe if you want to get up the duff.

      Reply

    • Anita says:

      03:18pm | 08/02/11

      I’m incredibly interested to discover that the most vehement of ‘anti-feminists’ seem to have worked in the public service. It might be that in the public service equal opportunity schemes and affirmative action are enacted to the nth degree. Out in the real world this is more often *not* the case.

      Reply

    • radical53 says:

      10:42am | 09/02/11

      I oppose sperm doning. Lesbians want to use us men as sperm donors. All men must stand up against it. The rights of children are always neglected. All children must know who their fathers are. Nothing worse than telling a child when asked this question and you respond by saying, ” I don’t know, he was anonymous.” Society has no morales any more.

      Reply

    • Liz says:

      05:48pm | 09/02/11

      Providing genetic material doesn’t make you a real father or mother. While a sense of where you come from genetically is important to some and the ability to access that information can be vital at times personally, if you donated sperm anonymously then your right to remain anonymous should be upheld. If you signed on knowing you may be contacted in the future by a person who carries your genetic material then fine but it still won’t make you a father nor that person your child. As to the idea of making sperm donors responsible financially for said child, wrong in every way. A parent is a person who is involved in your life, loves you, guides you, picks you up & dries your tears, celebrates your triumphs, hugs you when you fail & loves you no matter what. Part of that is accepting financial responsibility until a child is able to support themselves. A genetic link or the lack of it shouldn’t be the qualifier. Choice makes a parent, not genetics. The law needs to take that into consideration.

      Reply

    • Rudy says:

      02:12pm | 30/03/12

      I have read a few of the posts and would like to try and answer some of the misconceptions, if you’ll pardon the pun, about sperm donation. I donated many years ago now. There was no limit of five births in those days as I’ve read in some of your posts. We could sire up to twenty children back then. I have eight children from the program. All are girls. I donated before 1988.
      We got paid $20 per donation. I didn’t take the money though. I let them pay it into a research fund for IVF. My motivation? It seemed like an interesting thing to do at the time.  When I donated, we were granted anonymity. I don’t really care if my offspring know who I am, as long as they don’t turn up on my doorstep without my sanction. I would prefer all contact to be by mail. In fact the clinics, who perforn the IVF procedures, also prefer this method of contact with donors and offspring initially, if there is any allowed. I do not intend to contact any of my offspring if I ever have that opportunity, believing that all of our lives are a private affair. The reality is though, that fewer than 1% of offspring actually do wish to contact their donors, so an intrusion by them is not really an issue anyway. Do I feel like a dad to them? No, of course not. Do I even want to be a dad to them? No. Do I want to know who they are? No. Am I curious? Yes, mildly,  but I can live with that. Do I think that donors should contribute finacially to the upkeep of the offspring? No. The parents who receive the donated sperm do so with the understanding that there would be no contact or financial assistance from the donor. Should the couple actually have adopted a child? That is worth looking at. There are orphaned children that need a family. I wish my offspring long, happy and healthy lifes. I have good genes with no genetic diseases. My family line generally has had longevity.

      Reply
 
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