Seriously guys, just be COOL.

Rule #8: Be cool

Not ‘cool’ in the private-school-jock-sense of being cool - teasing you for your rust-red hair, exceptional clarinet skills and impressive inability to speak to women without your voice cracking - but cool in the nice-person-sense of being cool.

Apparently, despite the fact that it doesn’t cost you anything, nor does it require intelligence or skill, many people find it difficult to simply be nice to others.

Why would you close the elevator when someone is running towards you? Why would you steal someone’s pillow from a house party? Why would you tell your girlfriend her cat sucks your will to live?

Well here’s the scoop, and you don’t need to be a sharply dressed news.com.au reporter to get in on this breaking news: nice guys (and girls) DON’T finish last.

When it comes down to it, no-one likes the badarse for more than the length of a Sons of Anarchy episode. What would you rather: a hot bikie who sneaks out at night to torch a warehouse, or someone who’ll grate the lemon zest for your summer salad then wash up the dishes afterwards?

Nice Guys 1-0 Bad Guys. Zesters win, every time.

With that in mind, here are seven simple tips on how to be avoid getting a reputation as a massive douchelord.

1. When someone smiles at you, smile back. Even if you’ve got death breath and your teeth are showing wear and tear from twice-daily coffee runs;

2. Ask someone how they are in return when you’ve been asked by them. It’s not a leading question, it’s a simple courtesy. Get it done;

3. Pay it forward once in a while. We covered this on news.com.au recently and discovered people, contrary to popular opinion, aren’t always “the worst”. Next time you feel like spinning the karma wheel, pay for a stranger’s drink (and not just because they look like the soldier’s wife on Homeland);

4. Call your dad. Call your mum. Call your brother. Call your mate who lives overseas. Just call someone and tell them you’re thinking about them. You don’t have to necessarily get all deep and meaningful with them. This isn’t The Notebook. Just say g’day, it will make their day;

5. Don’t boo public figures at a stadium or public event. It’s just not cool. Who cares if you hate your local member or think Labor “totes sux brahsies!” - show a bit of respect. It’s easy to stand in a crowd and surrender your individual moral code to a chorus of boos. It’s better to stay silent and just be a good bloke/sheila. (NB: Unless you’re Alf Stewart or from country Queensland, don’t say the words “bloke” or “sheila”. Ever. It doesn’t suit you); 

6. Treat others as you want to be treated. It’s the first rule in the book of being a halfway decent person. Sure, sometimes you don’t get the courtesy shown in return. Sure, you’d probably prefer the South African guy at touch footy had NOT thrown you a c-bomb, simply because you had the temerity to cheer loudly while watching your friends play social sport. Rise above and set the standard. It’s not hard to carry yourself with a bit of class;

7. Grow a moustache and contribute to news.com.au’s Movember campaign. We’re just getting our act together and it’ll be a nice touch if you throw in some coin. Come on. We need this.

Bonus tip: Follow @christoforpaine on Twitter. Quality guy. Modest as hell.

Most commented

102 comments

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    • Sync says:

      05:45am | 08/11/12

      Totally agree with this article.


      Unfortunately, it has to go in my “If only…” pile - mainly because there are people (eg litigation lawyers) who make a living from people being asshats to each other, and they don’t really want the rest of us to change for the better.

    • acotrel says:

      07:16am | 08/11/12

      ’ Don’t boo public figures at a stadium or public event. It’s just not cool. ‘

      Perhaps somebody could induce Tony Abbott to visit Benalla ? Even a public meeting in Melbourne would be close enough ! I’ve got just about enough petrol to get there and back.

    • iansand says:

      07:54am | 08/11/12

      I have a cunning plan.  Outflank the lawyers and stop being an asshat.  Unless you are a litigation lawyer in which case, carry on.

      If you are especially nice to people today I will explain what non sequitur means.

    • Testfest says:

      01:35pm | 08/11/12

      As far as I am concerned, all of the articles tips are about being a good person - and they are equally applicable to BOTH sexes (well except for growing a moustache, but everyone can contribute to a charity).

      Just out of curiosity, has there ever been an article on The Punch that targets women only and gives them some pointed advice on how they can be better people..?

      It’s a good thing that Movember supports male mental health initiatives, because I am starting to get seriously depressed from the constant messages from the mainstream media telling me how shit I am because I am a man.

      Happy Movember Chris Paine…

    • Rebecca says:

      03:08pm | 08/11/12

      Hey testfest, is this the first media article you’ve ever seen?
      If not, I’m sure you’re aware that there are a number of publications dedicated to telling women how to improve themselves (especially their appearance).
      But nice job of only seeing the things you want to see smile

    • Ridge says:

      03:58pm | 08/11/12

      @Rebecca

      If you can link us to any, any at all.  Even one would be super.

    • Testfest says:

      04:41pm | 08/11/12

      Rebecca,

      I did say “an article on The Punch that targets women only and gives them some pointed advice on how they can be better people” didn’t I?

      The key words there are “on The Punch”.

      Pretty sure only one of us is seeing what they want to see… and it’s you.

    • anon says:

      06:11am | 08/11/12

      Don’t ever ever ever pay it forward. It’s not nice. It is really awkward and actually a bit creepy.

    • TracyH says:

      06:54am | 08/11/12

      anon…it doesn’t have to be a ‘creepy’ action. It could be as simple as being more generous with a tip for a waiter who’s doing a good job despite having put up with someone being rude and obnoxious at the next table. Or offering to look after a work colleague’s cat if they go away for a weekend. Just something, really, that puts you out a bit, for no other reason than it’s a nice thing to do.

    • acotrel says:

      07:20am | 08/11/12

      @TracyH
      How about kissing the waiter instead.  Now wouldn’t that be ‘cool’ ?  I promise I would have a shave first.

    • BJ says:

      08:14am | 08/11/12

      Most of the guys who do women favours aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their heart and are anything but nice guys.

    • Philosopher says:

      09:00am | 08/11/12

      I tried to ‘pay if forward’ once to a very attractive young woman walking to a bus stop in the rain, by offering her a lift. Did her face light up with delighted relief? No! Was she grateful? No! Did her hand stray to her handbag, where she doubtless kept a little spray canister handy? Yes! Thanks lady, I’m never attempting to ‘pay it forward’ to anyone, ever again. People can sort themselves out. Chris Paine your theories are Hallmark Twaddle.

    • Jack says:

      09:46am | 08/11/12

      Maybe next time you should offer to let her sit in the front seat, not in the trunk.

    • rach says:

      10:19am | 08/11/12

      Philosopher, I know you had good intentions, but lifts from strangers are creepy. Try something less-creepy next time.

      For example, I went down to my local 7-11 one night to get some milk. I was short $1, so I told the cashier “whoops, sorry, I’ll have to nip back home and get some more money”. He said “no no, just take it.”. I was stunned but very grateful. I then helped someone out in a similar position a few weeks later. She too was stunned but grateful. It’s a small gesture, but it can honestly make someone’s day.

    • fml says:

      11:36am | 08/11/12

      @Jack

      Hahahah, kwality.

    • Philosopher says:

      11:51am | 08/11/12

      creepy, sneepy rach, I am now so angry at all women, based on this individual spurning my offer of aid, that I will spend the rest of my life in a state of resentful misogyny (AU Version 2012).

    • Dirk Diggler says:

      07:02am | 08/11/12

      You will not get hot chicks aged from 16 - 32 if you are not the bad ass. You need two sides - the decent you that you show around friends and extended family and the bad ass you when you want some hot female company. Heartache
      You will not get hot chicks aged from 16 - 32 if you are not the bad ass. You need two sides - the real decent you that you show around friends and extended family and the bad ass you when you want some hot female company. This is the best advice you can ever give a nice young bloke. It will save him much heartache, prevent depression and ensure some fun times.

    • George says:

      08:59am | 08/11/12

      I think you mean douchebag, or meathead.

    • Kika says:

      09:13am | 08/11/12

      Not true. I had the bad guy and left him like a sack of potatoes after I met the nice guy - married him straight away and am now having his child. It does work in the end. In saying that the nice guy had a little bad attitude in a subtle sort of way which I liked. So you are right - you need a little streak of bad, but not too much.

    • bloke says:

      11:12am | 08/11/12

      what a load of garbage. you must love dating bogan chicks or haven’t dated anyone at all since 1999

    • ByStealth says:

      12:01pm | 08/11/12

      Kika, if your annecdotal experience was common do you think guys would act the way they do?

      They act how they do because it gets results, fullstop. If boys got more feminine attention for being conscientious, they would do so. Being amiable is considered to be boring. Being difficult is considered to be interesting. That’s all there is to it.

      Unless you’re talking age groups and how women around the age of 30 start looking for nice guys as providers after they’ve had their fill of bad boys. But that’s hardly ‘nice’ behaviour on the part of the girls then, is it.

    • Ridge says:

      12:27pm | 08/11/12

      Thank you Dirk and ByStealth.

      Although 32 is pushing the limits a little, lol.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:30pm | 08/11/12

      @ByStealth, it’s possible to not be boring while also being amiable. The difference is a bad guy has a lower standard expected when they be nice… e.g. comes home rather than going to the pub. A nice guy has a higher standard expected, night out: Lady’s choice for example or spa-day.

    • Paul says:

      12:48pm | 08/11/12

      “I had the bad guy and left him…”

      And that’s the point.  If a guy wants female company but not a life-long bond then the bad guy works.  Women will go through any number of bad guys before they settle on one good guy which means the odds are stacked heavily in the bad guys’ favour.

    • andye says:

      01:33pm | 08/11/12

      @ Dirk Diggler - “You will not get hot chicks aged from 16 - 32 if you are not the bad ass.”

      Common mistake. Bad boys tend to have certain characteristics that attract females, but you don’t have to be a bad boy to have those characteristics. Confidence is the big one. Avoiding neediness is also vital, as that is a huge warning sign that will drive women to run, run, run.

      “Nice guys” tend to be more passive by performing some “nice” acts and then waiting desperately for a response… or they tend to ask with caveats or a cringing fear of rejection. You want to ask a girl you like out? Just bloody ask her out. Look her in the eyes. Smile. Wait calmly for the response without fear of silence or a need to pre-empt rejection. If she says “is this a date?” simply say “yes”. If she asks why, tell her. Something like “I find you attractive and interesting” is great. Have the balls to put yourself out there confidently. If she isn’t interested? be gracious and friendly. Not only so you aren’t a jerk - hot girls generally have hot friends.

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:02pm | 08/11/12

      Kika, proving what I have said for years - good guys get the bad guys ‘leftovers’

      Be the ‘Bad Guy’ and get them while they are fresh. :p

    • Rebecca says:

      03:13pm | 08/11/12

      Depends on your intentions. If your goal is to get lots of meaningless sex from less than intelligent girls, then yes, the bad guy act works perfectly! If you want a relationship with a respectable woman, I don’t think you’ll have much luck.

    • Philosopher says:

      03:26pm | 08/11/12

      I hooked my wife when she was barely 22, and me at 30, by being Not Too Nice but Not A Douche Lord (from LOTR??). Definitely a balance is required, good-looking girls with lots of options will run a mile from Nice But A Little Boring. Every man dreads being thought of as some sort of surrogate brother figure. That balance is actually quite difficult to achieve, thank god I am out of the arena.

      And as for being nice for its own sake, Economist I thought you were a committed Dawkins fan… isn’t it all about a competition, in the end?

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:36pm | 08/11/12

      Ummm….I’m hoping that thats not my missus posting under the name of Rebecca….and if it is, I totally agree.

    • BJ says:

      05:57pm | 08/11/12

      @Andye

      Our society expects men to risk failure. There are two ways of dealing with this. Some men flirt (and more) with everything with a skirt and a pulse. They never really fail, because they never really cared. Some men are too nice to treat women as just another conquest. Nice guys don’t simply strut up and ask women on dates.

      If a guy acts like a player, he probably is.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:03am | 08/11/12

      1 - Be attractive.
      2 - Don’t be unattractive.

      Oh…

      3 - No duckface.

    • Tubesteak says:

      07:06am | 08/11/12

      The washing-up zester isn’t going to win. He ends up the cuddlebitch. No man wants to be a cuddlebitch.

      If you’re having two coffees every day you’ll be on a high so it will be easy to smile.

      Howzitgarn is second nature for Australians

      I’m already paying for strangers drinks through the tax system. Just wish I could get some back.

      I call my family all the time.

      I can’t help booing Abbott and Gillard. They both totes suck.

      What if others don’t want to be treated the way I like to be treated. I generally just like to be left alone but I’m not a people person. What if they are people persons?

      I’ve been wanting to grow a mo for a while but it’s not professionally appropriate. Maybe next year.

    • Anubis says:

      08:27am | 08/11/12

      @ Tubesteak - that is a copout ” it’s not professionally appropriate”. Nearly all people will accept the face fuzz if they know it is for the cause. Stop wimping out - I expect to see you in a Movember team next year (maybe even a Punch one). No more half arsed excuses.

    • Markus says:

      09:54am | 08/11/12

      “I’ve been wanting to grow a mo for a while but it’s not professionally appropriate”
      Feminism strikes again. And you didn’t even notice…

    • Tubesteak says:

      10:08am | 08/11/12

      Anubis
      It’s not a cop-out. My firm has a very direct policy on grooming standards which frowns on mos. Also, I am new in my role and trying to tell clients that I don’t know and who haven’t met me yet (only one chance to make a first impression) that it’s for charity may not go down well as it would make me look like a dodgy porn star or like I’ve got some fluff on my lip.

      Next year I may be able. I’m starting a new job again in a few weeks and should be entrenched well enough by next year. So may be able to take up your challenge.

    • AFR says:

      11:05am | 08/11/12

      Tube, disagree with yo on the Mo - it’s Movember. That trumps any company policy.

      I do, however, agree on being the cuddlebitch. I suffered two long years being one, and it sucks. Yep, you get to be the “gay friend” whilst the girl you want is out shagging bikes and drug dealers.

      Around this time is when I reintroduce ladder theory:

      http://www.laddertheory.com/

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:47am | 08/11/12

      AFR
      Sometimes you need to make a good impression when new. Although, every year I have had an excuse. From new jobs to new girlfriends. I will make a commitment next year! Promise.

    • Louise says:

      07:13am | 08/11/12

      Hey, I’m not from ‘country Queensland’ and I say ‘bloke’ - it’s good Aussie lingo, just ask Fair Shake Kev…or not.  And I’m ‘reclaiming’ the ‘sheila’ now, too (I’m sure the Macquarie Dictionary would approve…no, actually I’m not at all sure of that.) Beats the American cowboy/Sinatra-style ‘guys’ and ‘hoes’.

      But you did use ‘bad*arse*’, so I’ll let you off.

    • acotrel says:

      07:24am | 08/11/12

      Chris, you just have t o be joking with this article. - Don’t boo public figures ?  I live in Sophie Mirabella’s electorate of Indi.  Do you want me to have apoplexy by exercising restraint ?

    • Robin says:

      07:50am | 08/11/12

      I feel your pain.  I live in Thompson’s.  ooooooh

    • Chris Paine says:

      07:57am | 08/11/12

      Acotrel, I’m not joking. I’m from Sophie Mirabella’s electorate, too. I don’t see what’s so hard about it.

    • Martin says:

      12:48pm | 08/11/12

      Booing politicians is as Australian as meat pies, kangaroos and football. To abstain from this practise is most un-Australian.

    • Das Rantmeister says:

      07:25am | 08/11/12

      I’ve subscribed to a similar nice guy philosophy for a long time with consistently good results.  That said I take umbrage at the relatively recent practice of “tipping” in a country that lags well behind others in terms of customer service and especially where the waitperson (ridiculous word) most likely earns a better hourly rate than I do.  All of which provides the perfect segway to vent on the apparent wholesale adoption of American customs a-la tipping, last weeks Halloween, the use of “First Lady” to describe male PM’s better halves and the sickening use of words/phrases like “from the get-go” and 24/7/365…better sign off now and go start getting ready for Thanksgiving!  “Calm blue ocean…calm blue ocean…calm blue ocean…better now…”

    • ByStealth says:

      12:06pm | 08/11/12

      I’d like to add to this and say that american bartenders are often paid nothing as a salary. That’s right. They solely work for tips.

      Compare that to the $20 per hour bartenders get here for shoddier service.

      That’s why I don’t tip.

    • Big Jay says:

      12:39pm | 08/11/12

      @ByStealth - Fair call.

      By the way, I understand that hospitality workers still get penalty rates on weekends, so most of the time you’re at the bar they’ll be on more than $20/hr. Btw, I think this is a good thing!! It’s just that tips aren’t necessary.

    • Clint says:

      07:29am | 08/11/12

      I greeted someone yesterday and smiled at them and she laughed at me. When I asked her if there was a problem she said “Not at all, you just seem so friendly and happy”....

    • fml says:

      07:31am | 08/11/12

      D@mn it, I am tired of people making me feel guilty for being an unempathetic jerk!

      It’s a free country!

    • subotic says:

      08:13am | 08/11/12

      Professor Farnsworth: Ah, Zoidberg, we’ve known each other so long, sometimes I don’t think we need words to understand each other.

      Dr. Zoidberg: What?

    • Elphaba says:

      08:17am | 08/11/12

      I like your jerk side.  Don’t ever change smile

    • Markus says:

      08:26am | 08/11/12

      A real jerk wouldn’t feel guilty about it.

      Poser!

    • fml says:

      08:36am | 08/11/12

      I’m walking on sunshine, wooooooooh oooooooooh.

    • Philosopher says:

      09:07am | 08/11/12

      yes it is a free country fml! Women are free to talk to men without having their parents douse them in concentrated acid! Perhaps our middle eastern Islamic friends should ponder Point 6 in Chris Paine’s article. What do you think?

    • Joel M-J says:

      09:37am | 08/11/12

      I’m going to have to call you out on that Philosopher.

      Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern country, but is in fact part of the Indian Sub-Continent. Afghanistan also, is part of Central Asia.

      It’s true, there are some shit-head Middle Eastern countries out there, but let’s not just limit it to them.

    • Philosopher says:

      09:52am | 08/11/12

      fair call Joel M-J. I’ll widen the net.

    • subotic says:

      10:23am | 08/11/12

      I’m going to have to call you out on that Joel M-J.

      It’s true, there are some shit-head Middle Eastern countries out there, but let’s not just limit it to them.

      As if there are any non-shit-head Middle Eastern countries out there….

    • Joel M-J says:

      10:50am | 08/11/12

      @ Subotic

      I was going to argue with you on that, and realized I couldn’t.

      Well played wink

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:22pm | 08/11/12

      I present Cyprus and Kuwait (part of Traditional designation of Middle East) and Morocco, Armenia and Turkey (Greater Middle East) as non-shithead Middle Eastern countries.

    • Markus says:

      01:11pm | 08/11/12

      Morocco? So the Greater Middle East extends to the NW coast of Africa?

    • PsychoHyena says:

      01:43pm | 08/11/12

      @Markus, according to the list of Greater Middle Eastern countries.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      01:59pm | 08/11/12

      Psycho don’t even bother, there are plenty of folk here who will keep repeating the shit head ME line regardless of how many times you present them with differing evidence.

      In the context of this article let haters stew in their own hate.

    • Philosopher says:

      02:32pm | 08/11/12

      ‘In the context of this article let haters stew in their own hate.’
      I thought that’s what we are letting them do, in Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yeman, etc etc: stew in their own hate. Chris Paine should be a cultural ambassador from the west - give the refugees a decency test before granting them residency visas.

      Chris P: ‘no, it’s just not cool to throw your sister-in-law off the roof. Come on, put her down and have a lemon zest drink.’

    • SydneyGirl says:

      03:06pm | 08/11/12

      Sigh. Philosopher…..maybe that moniker isn’t very apt:)

      Its true, the ME’s sole occupation is hating. 

      Some days its just like The Punch really.

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      08:13am | 08/11/12

      “Just call someone and tell them you’re thinking about them.”

      9:00 P.M - Thursday Night

      “Hi Bob!”

      “Hey Jim, what’s up?”

      “I just wanted to call and say that I’m thinking about you.”

      “Umm…ok.  I have to just, umm, feed the dog.  I’ll chat later.”

      <click>

      “But you don’t have a dog…”

    • fml says:

      08:38am | 08/11/12

      For a moment I thought you were going to quote stevie wonder…

    • Philosopher says:

      09:12am | 08/11/12

      T the T: ‘hey, dude! Just thought I’d call and say hi! Long time!
      Dude: ‘hey, Tim! Yeah, I’ve been busy, man. Really involved now with my local church!’
      T the T: silence…‘what? You’re kidding, right?’ Uneasy chuckle.
      Dude: ‘No man, it’s really cool. They’re a great bunch of people, really down to earth. Hey, you should come along. It would be great to see you, Tim.’
      T the T: ‘ummm… yeah, well, a bit busy myself. Hey, the pasta is boiling over! I’ll catch ya, dude.’
      Dude: ‘oh. Ok. Well, I’d love to catch up sometime.’
      T the T: click.

    • CC says:

      09:25am | 08/11/12

      @fml I hardly see how “Higher Ground” would be appropriate in his phone conversation…...

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      12:33pm | 08/11/12

      Sounds about right, Philosopher.  You missed the part where I draw a tidy line through their name in my address book, while a tear falls smoothly down my cheek.  Otherwise more or less accurate.

      Am I wrong to assume you were sipping a wee dram from your finger while writing that post?

    • Philosopher says:

      02:02pm | 08/11/12

      Scenario 2:

      T the T: ‘hi, Lucy! Long time no see, just calling to see if you and Kyle are still ok…?’
      Lucy: ‘oh hi Tim. No, actually we broke up.’
      T the T: ‘oh no!’ Pause. ‘Still, I never liked Kyle. A real arsehat; in fact, a douchelord.’
      Lucy: nervous laugh ‘a what?’
      T the T: ‘Never mind. Say, you want to catch up some time?’
      Lucy: ‘Oh I’d love to. Say! You should come down to the church group I joined. They’re really great guys, not all weird like you say they are.’
      T the T: ‘Since when did you… join that…?’
      Lucy: ‘Oh just recently. In fact I left Kyle because he was being a real meany about it all. So what do you say?’
      T the T: ‘... hmm… okay, I suppose. Are they like, really conservative?’
      Lucy: ‘oh no, just regular people. Come on! It will be great you coming with me, I can pretend you’re my boyfriend so the other guys stop hitting on me. Pests they are!’
      T the T: ‘well, all right. See you there.’
      click.

    • Ridge says:

      08:58am | 08/11/12

      Thank you Chris Paine for your expert guide on a one way ticket to the friendzone.

      If I may, I’d like to offer a few thoughts on the matter:

      1. Smiling too much is a sign of weakness.  A badass smirk, however, is a sign of confidence.  Beautiful girls love that.

      2. Generally good advice, but not really applicable for service staff - particularly when they’re in a hurry.  Asking how you are is just part of their script, so if you interrupt that, the results would be generally awkward.

      3. Never buy someone a drink.  Unless they’re a friend and you know they’ll buy you one back.  If you buy any stranger a drink, you might as well have ‘sucker’ tattooed on your forehead.

      Please don’t think for a second that the lemon zester would win over the badass biker.  Although your hipster glasses give me the impression of a zester-type, so I can’t blame you for trying to promote that style.

      (Traditionally) Nice guys finish last.  That’s just the way things are.  There should be articles on how to make girls nicer though.  That would definitely be a welcome change!

    • Joel M-J says:

      09:41am | 08/11/12

      Wrong.

      Weak guys finish last. It just so happens a lot of nice guys tend to come off as being weak as well. Bad guys tend to come off as strong. The two are not synonymous with each other however.

      The trick is finding a balance which allows you to be a nice guy who exhibits strength as well.

    • Ridge says:

      10:26am | 08/11/12

      Both are conditionally right - traditionally nice guys are generally weak.

      And yes, you can get strong nice guys - as long as it’s not to the point of whiteknighting.  Then they’re not much better off than the rest.

      A touch of badassery provides the exciting drama that is like crack to hot girls.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      10:26am | 08/11/12

      @Ridge, I dunno, it all depends on how you do nice. I’ve had no issues in the past with being nice and getting some company as a result. My wife and I got together after I offered to babysit her two children at the time so she could attend a couple of workshops.

      Here’s the catch though, nice only works if you are doing it to be nice without any consideration of possible outcomes, this does not mean ‘maybe if I’m nice for the sake of being nice I’ll get something back’. The total disinterest in any form of sexual closeness is what tends to make women interested.

      Oh and it is totally possible to move from the friend-zone to the friend-with-benefits-zone.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:43am | 08/11/12

      “It just so happens a lot of nice guys tend to come off as being weak as well.”

      Well said.  ‘Nice’ and ‘spineless’, are completely different, despite so many ‘nice’ guys loudly whinging about it.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      10:56am | 08/11/12

      I once went out with a “bad boy”.  Rather he was a friend who morphed into a bad boy once we started going around. That lasted six months before I fled.  A year later we did make amends and kept everything strictly at facebook friend status. 

      After that meeting Mr SG who is quiet, bookish and kind was like a soothing balm.  There is nothing like a secure, drama free bloke.  With a moustache. 

      Badass guys are meant to be confined to the pages of 50 Shades. And girls who want badass guys often have issues of their own…just sayin:)

    • ByStealth says:

      12:11pm | 08/11/12

      ‘The total disinterest in any form of sexual closeness is what tends to make women interested.’

      I’d say this is just lack of neediness. There is nothing wrong with showing sexual interest in someone.

    • Ridge says:

      12:30pm | 08/11/12

      SydneyGirl, I’d be the first to agree with your last sentence.  Perhaps our definitions of what those issues are might differ, though.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:39pm | 08/11/12

      @ByStealth, that’s my point, the badass doesn’t care whether he gets sex with one girl or not because they’ll just get with a different one, because this appears to buck the trend of what women are taught about guys (they’re only after one thing) it causes them to become the pursuer. Nice guys can achieve the same thing but without the badassery.

      Admittedly I’m basing it off my own personal experiences.

    • Economist says:

      12:51pm | 08/11/12

      Was this an article about how to get laid? Personally I loved it, well done Chris Paine, it’s simply about being nice.

      There’s nothing more satisfying then being nice to people that hate you. Hate consumes so much energy, yet when you smile and say hello to someone who looks straight through you it’s there problem.  When you’re occasionally nice to those at the Punch who despise your ideas and politics, take it with a grain of salt. You don’t have to agree or like their views, but I see no point in espousing unconditional hate or following them around with spite.

      @SydneyGirl will possibly be able to relate to this I believe she’s a Buddhist or has leanings towards Buddhism. Everybody should aim for true enlightment, I’d like to think I’m at the non-returner stage, so does my Buddhist mother,  but perhaps she’s showing her bias and I’m blowing smoke up my rear end. Arahant here I come.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      01:04pm | 08/11/12

      Ridge the definitions might not differ:)

      But too many people here seem to think such women a) represent all women and b) they justify being a badass.  I think there is the good time boy and the boy you settle down with - I don’t think badass boys are top of anyone’s list in the second category.  If they are happy with that and the good times, cool, just don’t complain about fickle princesses. Conversely women thinking they are going to change the bad boy and clinging on don’t get much sympathy from me

      PS: I am friends with my ex because sometimes a badass boy can be a good friend but a bad boyfriend.

    • ByStealth says:

      01:05pm | 08/11/12

      Don’t you find it interesting though that women are selecting men who have ‘options’? They know this guy must have other women on the go, but they want to be the one who ‘wins’ him.

      Compare this with the PC BS that says women hate lady’s men.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      01:22pm | 08/11/12

      Economist yes I am Buddhist though alas nowhere near true enlightenment!  I am not entirely on board with the “detachment” bit of Buddhism, I think a degree of passion - which can sometimes be ugly - makes us human. That said, I agree that the point of the article is to be kind and not be kind to get laid:)

      Apart from being kind, for me the number one asset in life is having a sense of humour and not taking oneself too seriously.  Everything passes so little point in spewing invective no?!

    • AdamC says:

      01:58pm | 08/11/12

      Economist, I agree. Why did everyone make the leap from simply being nice to getting some action? Mind you, if they hadn’t made said leap, I would never have learned the word ‘cuddlebitch’. (Great term, I am going to have to use it in conversation.)

      In my experience, most people who are successful, whether it be in their career, their social lives or with the opposite sex, tend to be pleasant, engaging inidviduals who take a genuine interest in others.

      In other words, it can be quiye selfishly rewarding to be nice!

    • PsychoHyena says:

      02:29pm | 08/11/12

      @Economist and SydneyGirl, you’re right the purpose of the article I believe was exactly about countering the selfish and boorish attitude that seems to be pervading society worldwide.

      @ByStealth, but isn’t that the same with guys? How many guys go for the unobtainable girl simply because she’s unattainable to them? Both males and females delight in the pursuit. Generally it’s a case of ‘If I can’t have it, I want it.’.

    • Jack says:

      02:39pm | 08/11/12

      Please share more of your insight into PUAs, AFCs, HB9s and ladder theory that your learned on the internet.

    • subotic the magical elf says:

      03:43pm | 08/11/12

      Everybody should aim for true enlightment

      Bollocks.

      Imagine if everyone, everywhere, realised that kinda crap at once….

      Meh!

    • Ridge says:

      03:51pm | 08/11/12

      @Jack

      You’re citing the most trite PUA lingo.  But just knowledge of these terms combined with an ability to use the internet disqualifies someone from knowing about getting girls?

    • ByStealth says:

      05:34pm | 08/11/12

      ‘How many guys go for the unobtainable girl simply because she’s unattainable to them?’

      Not many unless they’re serial womanisers who want a challenge (in which case you’re projecting the apex fallacy onto all men). The majority of men are attracted more to women that are available and open. For instance, the girl who smiles at them and makes pleasant conversation rather than the girl who acts the aloof ice queen and needs a lot of work.

    • Nick says:

      09:10am | 08/11/12

      Grating zest will only be a winner if you stick to your guns and grate it the way you think it should be grated.  There’s no way you’ll keep a quality woman for life if you grate zest her way.  She’ll be in the living room bonking your best mate while you’re standing at the kitchen bench.

    • Philosopher says:

      12:06pm | 08/11/12

      So many mixed metaphors, I couldn’t actually grasp the meaning here. You mean, to avoid another man grating your woman’s zest behind your back, learn to cook complicated desserts like a pastry chef? Or alternately, grate zest your way and to hell with the consequences? *ponder* What if she is a superior cook?

    • St. Michael says:

      06:18pm | 08/11/12

      If she’s a superior cook, marry her.  Proves she prefers to be in the kitchen.

      *waits to see if this one gets past the Hunch’s censors…*

    • Sea Dog says:

      11:10am | 08/11/12

      Using the word douche to describe somebody should be left to sixteen yearold one direction fans.

      Also, “What would you rather: a hot bikie who sneaks out at night to torch a warehouse, or someone who’ll grate the lemon zest for your summer salad then wash up the dishes afterwards?” 
      Women choose option A!

    • Martin says:

      12:54pm | 08/11/12

      “Sea Douche”

      Catchy !

    • SKA says:

      01:19pm | 08/11/12

      Speaking as a woman, while some may chose Option A, most of us really would choose the zester. I’ve only gone out with the guys I have because of traits I thought were nice (one used to run late to social stuff because he was helping his folks, another was a good conversationalist and remembered what he’d been told before). It hasn’t meant that they’ve all ended up being nice but it’s been half and half. I think a lot of nice guys often miss out with women they like because they don’t have the courage to ask the woman out. A lot of bad guys win, temporarily, because they often do have the confidence to ask the woman out. The other issue is sometimes the woman doesn’t think she is “good enough” for the nice guy, thinks she deserves to be treated badly. Most people in this world aren’t getting an abundance of offers so will often as not accept the first offer that comes their way from someone who appears reasonably decent - that’s both men and women. I guess the moral is, people of both sexes need to take courage and ask the person they like out and see what happens. Obviously there will be rejections, but there will also be affirmative responses too.

    • Yuri says:

      01:35pm | 08/11/12

      Well, to be fair, I think most guys would much prefer a hot bikie chick to one who can grate zest on a salad. I know I would, mainly because of my aversion to salad.

    • subotic says:

      03:44pm | 08/11/12

      See? Douche!

      Even catchier!

    • ByStealth says:

      05:57pm | 08/11/12

      Speaking as a woman, while some may chose Option A, most of us really would choose the zester.

      By ‘most women’, what age range and honest level of attractiveness are these women? On average, how many times would they pick the ‘biker’ before they pick the zester?

      Even here in this blog, the girls say ‘I picked the bad boys until I wised up’, so the nice guy gets a girl that had all the hot sex she wanted from men she found more attractive before deciding to settle for them.

      Imagine if I said to a nice caring girl ‘Oh sorry, I had to sleep with all those trashy hot skanks until I wised up, but now I know that you’re what I really want’. How special would she feel? Yet so many girls expect ‘nice guys’ to accept their lot in life and be happy that they’re some girls plan B after they couldn’t keep the hot guys to commit to them.

      Please, continue rationalising your life choices away so you don’t have to feel bad or judged for what you’ve done.

    • Martin says:

      12:40pm | 08/11/12

      It takes more effort to be nice to one another and less effort to be an arsehat, hence the slippery slope comprised entirely of lazy people. Having said that, all-the-time-nice-people can get very irritating, so a bit of balance goes a long way.

      “Douchelord” ... that’s going straight into the insult database.

    • Philosopher says:

      02:45pm | 08/11/12

      you are quite correct @Martin, and in fact Chris P is incorrect in stating that it does not take intelligence or skill to be nice. Being sociable is a learned skill, just like language is a skill, which is why very young children are often disarmingly frank in a way that would be unacceptable in an adult. Up to the end of the 19th C, civility, manners and deportment was a means of demonstrating the quality of your upbringing, if not your education. Nowdays we rely on sort of Everyman Friendliness to get by.

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:13pm | 08/11/12

      Hang on a sec…“don’t boo political figures at sports events”?!?!

      DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF?!?!?!

      You are advocating attacking a core Australian principle so as to appear ‘nice’?!?!?!

      What kind of person are you?!?! Are you so devoid of companionship or affection that you would willingly and easily give up a core binding principle that unites ALL Australians form ALL waks of life?!?

      You sir are not only a pathetically sad individual but also a very poor Australian. I say Good day to you sir!

 

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