Even Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott might want to wind down a bit on their competing carbon pricing campaigns, but we certainly think the general public need a break. Therefore, this will be the first and only mention in The Punch this week of the climate change contest. Hereafter for the week The Punch will give our readers a respite from what increasingly is becoming a circular debate. But first, this is where we leave the protagonists in that debate.

Chris 'Roy' Taylor cartoon

It was refreshing last Sunday week when a Prime Minister was interviewed on television.

The interview was with John Howard on Insiders. Of course, he isn’t actually PM, not even an MP, after being tossed out of both jobs at the 2007 election.

But he sounded like one with answers rather than slogans, confidence rather than diffidence, and a resonance of competence across a number of issues.

What he said could be challenged because it was self - and Liberal Party - serving. But it has been a long time since we heard someone speak with the authority of a national leader, or an alternative leader, even if they were not one.

The application of leadership has been swallowed up by the dominance of the debate over fighting global warming.

Julia Gillard has the real job of Prime Minister, which is infinitely tougher than being a former PM protecting a political record. But she struggles to sound prime ministerial.

Carbon pricing has grown to such an all-commanding issue Ms Gillard has been hostage to it in the climate change bunker, forced to concentrate almost exclusively on defending this single policy.

The Government is active in other areas, but most of its energy is being directed to the relatively exotic matter of managing carbon pollution.

Ms Gillard so far has committed herself to staying in the bunker for possibly the next six to 12 months, maybe longer.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has the same problem but in the other direction. He sounds more like a single issue activist than an alternative Prime Minister.

He is constantly on the offensive, perpetually mobilising troops and resources to attack carbon pricing in all its forms and manifestations and destinations.

There is no room for other things Opposition Leaders have to do, such as present the policy structure and detail of an alternative government. Mr Abbott is skittish when it comes to policy.

There is bipartisanship on the basic facts - human-produced carbon emissions are worsening global warming and should be cut back. This should just be a contest between the responses, the Government’s carbon pricing plan and the Opposition’s Direct Action option.

But it’s not, for two central reasons. One is that many voters do not trust Ms Gillard after she said before the 2010 election that a carbon tax would not be introduced by a re-elected government. They dislike her more than they dislike carbon pricing.

The hung Parliament and the need to negotiate minority government changed the circumstances and Ms Gillard did not bother to explain the switch, perhaps thinking it would disappear or be rated much lower than the policy debate.

It was a case of extraordinary neglect of a clearly-flagged political problem.

The Government hopes the discounted faith in the Prime Minister will ease as she goes out on the track to give personal assurances, and when the carbon pricing scheme starts and she is seen to deliver to families promised protections from price rises.

Not all senior Labor figures are convinced this will happen but have no alternative. And they also are noting the second problem, the association with the Greens.

The Government is not in coalition with the Greens as some argue, but they are close enough for comedians such as Lord Monckton to refer to “Prime Minister Brown”.

Out in the suburbs, whether they are in western Sydney or among the coal areas, the Greens are not readily considered to be allies, and the Labor Party is being devalued by the closeness with the party of Bob Brown.

Tony Abbott has problems, too, starting with Tony Abbott. The Opposition Leader knows what he doesn’t like but is vague about what he likes, and appears to contradict himself frequently.

The Opposition’s Direct Action is a general outline of a policy, not a substantial package, and there are valid questions about it which Mr Abbott will be pressed to answer.

Here’s just one. Mr Abbott says that if carbon pricing legislation was passed in the next few months, when he won government in two years time, he would tear up the plan.

That would mean companies which have paid for pollution permits would be entitled to ask for their money back. Having funded that process, the Abbott government would then invoke Direct Action which would require it to pay those same companies to reduce pollution.

This would involve huge amounts of taxpayers’ money and no one has explained where it would come from.

Increasingly Mr Abbott’s attack will be interrupted as he is put on the defensive over his own policy.

249 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Erick says:

      06:02am | 25/07/11

      I’m looking forward to a week without tediously partisan articles promoting the Labor Party’s hopeless cause.

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      07:02am | 25/07/11

      Spot on Erick.

    • TChong says:

      07:24am | 25/07/11

      Yes Eck, much rather the partisan crap from Mirabella, Bronny Bishop ,
      Andrews, etc etc etc.
      At least we now what they post is only for the loyal, and not taken seriosly by anyone else.

    • Erick says:

      08:23am | 25/07/11

      TC, at least those people don’t pretend to be doing impartial political analysis.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      08:30am | 25/07/11

      Correct Erick, amazing how Mr Farr can ashamedly lump the good and the bad together to promote the Gillard Labor Party which the vast majority loathe and can’t wait to give them a good walloping on Election day.

      It is obvious that Mr Farr is equating Abbott to Gillard to discredit Abbott. If the vast majority are prepared to wait for an account of Coalition policies etc so should the media, especially Mr Farr. Timing is very important and the media will get enough time to scrutinize Coalition policies just before Gillard calls an Election. For the time being Mr Farr will just have to work on, if he likes, on the policies the Coalition took to the last Elections. The Coalition policies that they took to the 2010 Elections and draw with the Gillard Labor Party.

      It is bizarre how Mr Farr blames Abbott as if he is a one party politician?

      What a pity he had to use the dynamic John Howard in his article to promote the failing Gillard Labor Party. This was made worse, by reminding us of how this great Australian ended his political career. “Of course, he isn’t actually PM, not even an MP, after being tossed out of both jobs at the 2007 election.”

      “After being tossed out of both jobs at the 2007 election” well let me tell you to his admirers it was a blessing he lost his seat and walked away a proud, well satisfied statesman. 4 years later he lost his seat to the Rudd/Gillard Govt, the worst Govt in the country’s political history.

      Don’t you just love it when Monckton said Prime Minister Brown?

    • Matt says:

      08:37am | 25/07/11

      TChong, you do realise that those you have listed are Liberal MPs, rather than the National Political Editor don’t you? Do you see the difference there?

    • Against the Man says:

      08:49am | 25/07/11

      Stop wasting your breath Chongy, no one is taking your ‘direct from ALP HQ’ crap seriously smile

      How is life as a champion of a minority cause?

    • Bob Stewart says:

      08:54am | 25/07/11

      Me too. Its minus 1 deg C this morning in Lameroo. I’ve stoked up the fire with a few more logs and mallee stumps. You remember them, do you? they absorb the carbon to grow and discharge tonnes of it back into the atmosphere during the bushfires. Up until then they provide not only the oxygen for life itself but the means of its own combustion. 

      I still don’t know what the tax is for except that I might get an extra $233 out of the $24 billion that the 500 polluters are to be forced to pay.

    • Joan says:

      09:20am | 25/07/11

      @ Rosie

      John Howard’s supporters weren’t the only ones celebrating him losing his seat. Just listen to these cheers !

    • TChong says:

      09:54am | 25/07/11

      Hi Atm
      =slot machine. Feed the talking points in from LNP HQ,  slotty mixes them all around, and then Bing! the bell rings and out comes the predictable result from AtM./ slotty.
      Lifes pretty void since News Of The World closed ?
      Dont worry though, just stick with FRONTPAGEMAG and Australian Conservative, these 2 sites seem to provide you with everything you know, and have a smile  day.

    • Both sides now says:

      10:18am | 25/07/11

      Malcolm Farr has written a thoughtful and balanced piece accurately explaining the position both leaders find themselves in. He is a rare voice of impartiality on this site.

      The fact that you see it as biased demonstrates how myopically, rantingly right wing you are.

    • Against the Man says:

      10:38am | 25/07/11

      Strange Chong ol’ boy because LNP HQ seems to be have the same talking points as the majority view of Australians. Now you have a nice day!

    • Static says:

      10:48am | 25/07/11

      Didnt Malcolm kinda give the old coalition the back on track speech with his intervies this week. The libs do believe in climate change you know

    • LC says:

      11:00am | 25/07/11

      Even people who’ve been demanding a tax on carbon should be disappointed at best with the half-arsed result Labor has delivered. If Gillard had any spine at all, she’d have set the price between $5-10 a tonne, no compensation, no exemptions for petrol or agriculture, and ensuring at at least 3/4 of all the money raised goes right back into R&D into sustainable and eco-friendly technologies and the installation of the required infrastructure. Of course, given Labor’s track record, trusting them to run it would be another story entirely. But at least they’d have the right idea.

      If Perse, that James guy and the rest of them were truly environmentalists, they’d be spewing…

      If the best our pollies can offer on the environment is talkfests and thinly disguised quasi-socialist policies, and AGW is actually occurring, we’re stuffed. Better start building an ark now…

    • Dissident says:

      11:31am | 25/07/11

      Erick, I think that this is one of Farr’s more balanced articles - though that is not saying much! - but I did notice that he couldn’t resist having a dig at Lord Monckton by calling him a comedian.

      My opinion is that neither side has staked a claim to a sensible policy on climate change. I disagree that we need to do anything at all - certainly not until you have a binding consensus on total emissions reductions from the big players China, US, India, etc but if you accept that it is a problem you need a solution that actually fixes the problem.

      The idea of a carbon tax is not without merit, but compensating people for the increases is silly. If you want to change behaviours, you should let people feel the pain in their hip pocket.

      Direct action again has some merit, but it is little more than the government picking winners - which is also fraught with danger. Geothermal power as spruiked by Tim Flannery has been a flop for all the money that the Government has pumped in, for example.

      The ultimate problem is that both parties are trying to fix an environmental problem (if you agree that it is a problem) with a roundabout economic solution. Even the ‘direct action’ plan of the coalition is indirect in it’s effects.

      Why not tackle the problem directly? We don’t fine murderers for their crimes, we put them in jail. Solve the problem directly.

      Here is a better idea. Let’s call it “The Dissident Plan”.

      1) Do a full audit of the total emissions of all the companies in Australia (they have to do this to levy a fair tax anyway - though they are only doing 500).
      2) Set the total emissions permissable in Australia as a per company limit.
      3) Reduce the amount of allowable emissions per company on a pro-rata basis to get to the total limit desired.

      Anyone who breaches the limit gets fined double the international spot price for pollution permits. The added benefit is that fines are specifically not tax deductable so this gives them a right old whack - that is a proper incentive to reduce emissions right there. Persistent offenders are simply shut down once they reach their annual limit and have to wait until 1 July to fire up the furnace again.

      I do expect that this would mean more costs passed on to the consumer - which ultimately happens no matter how you price pollution - but it does have the added advantage of actually having the chance to reduce emissions, generate revenue from people who breach the limits, and stop money from flowing overseas to international pollution permit traders who could very well be shonky traders.

      But any reasonable minded person would of course agree that the Dissident Plan is heavy-handed and does not cater to the intracacies of different industries. It would reduce emissions, though.

      Alternatively, we could just wait until the free market inevitably puts a price on pollution all by itself. It had already started doing so before the Western Financial Crisis. The market automatically prices everything, no matter how intangible it is. I, like many other people, buy free range eggs (for a higher price than the cage variety) but can’t taste the difference. Why pay more? Because I choose to. The free market is - quite simply - awesome.

      PS. If this carbon tax scheme that the PM is suggesting does get up, does anyone know how to get in on the trading? This is going to be the biggest fraud and shonk-fest in the history of financial markets and I would love to know how I can get people to pay me money for selling them thin air. Or tulips. Who wants a $400 tulip?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:45am | 25/07/11

      But, But…. what would all the Liberal fanboys and fangirls rail against? No more rants against the IPCC / CSIRO / NASA / CRU conspiracy. No more singing the praises of their glorious leader Tony Abbott and railing against the evil and inept Gillard government. No more personal attacks against those poor deluded Labor supporters.
      Going to be a dull week.

    • RyaN says:

      11:58am | 25/07/11

      I second Erick’s call, just once perhaps Mal Farr can possibly write a non-partisan piece that isn’t just blatant government propaganda.

    • Maree says:

      12:16pm | 25/07/11

      Of course Juliar is going to look hopeless, she has Boob Brown hanging around her neck telling her what to do !.

    • Mark says:

      12:50pm | 25/07/11

      There are some great articles on this site under blogs, with a new twist on the whole somewhat boring 1 sided debate http://www.australianalliance.org

    • SimonTigey says:

      01:05pm | 25/07/11

      I have never read an article from malcolm farr that didn’t have some sort of pot shot at the Coalition. He can’t help himself, he is a rusted on labor voter going back many years. Not the type to be writing articles regarding politics, he is just too biased and can’t control himself.

    • Shooters and Fishers says:

      02:22pm | 25/07/11

      I am looking for the day Erick and Ryan are not on here.

    • Peter says:

      02:36pm | 25/07/11

      I think you’re being a bit harsh on Mr Farr, Erick. To sum up: neither Gillard or Abbott come across as possessing genuine leadership traits, Labor has made a mess of the climate change issue and the Libs/Nats have a lot of policy detail to put on the table. An accurate assessement on the state of play, I say. For the record, I hope Labor are voted out back to the stone age at the next election…but I would like to hear more from the Libs/Nats on how they are going to dig us out abyss Labor is creating for the nation.

    • RyaN says:

      03:25pm | 25/07/11

      @Shooters and Fishers: and I am sure we can’t wait for the day you make an actual contribution rather than trolling for attention.

    • Chris L says:

      06:58pm | 25/07/11

      Thank you for posting that link Mark. I shall be checking it out. Here’s hoping we can get more choice at election time than between the devil and the deep blue sea!

    • AnthonyG says:

      07:15pm | 25/07/11

      chong for someone who donkey votes you seem to be very protective of jooliars Party

    • Fiddler says:

      06:20am | 25/07/11

      She doesn’t just struggle to sound Prime Ministerial, she struggles to be Prim Ministerial, or act in the countries best interests. End of story.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:25pm | 25/07/11

      Good call, that. 
       
      It beggars belief that people like Farr cannot understand that people do not trust this woman. Why is he constantly bleating that it doesn’t matter if she’s a lying bitch? - most people think it DOES matter.

    • David S says:

      06:29am | 25/07/11

      Gillard has done a terrible job explaining that the election did not give a ‘win’ to either side, and creating a stable minority government meant compromises from the election position on pricing carbon. 

      The hysteria surrounding the Gillard Government’s policies doesn’t allow any critical examination of government or coalition proposals on climate change.  Perhaps a ‘break in transmission’ is a good thing to give breathing space for the factual, reasoned debate that has been missing to date.

      What also needs much greater scrutiny is the chasm between the believers and the sceptics within the Liberal / National parties.  To listen to many of them, one would be surprised to learn their official platform is that climate change is real and taxpayers will be on the hook for upwards of $10 billion.  Would an Abbott government really cut government programs to the tune of $10 billion for something he really believes is “crap”?

    • jf says:

      08:14am | 25/07/11

      David S says: 06:29am | 25/07/11

      “Would an Abbott government really cut government programs to the tune of $10 billion for something he really believes is “crap”?”

      He didn’t say climate change was crap. He said, in reference to the ICCC scandals, that the science on man made climate change was crap.

      Hopefully understanding the vast difference between what he actually said and what the alarmists say he said will help you to understand each side of this issue.

    • The Badger says:

      08:48am | 25/07/11

      “It is not possible to criticise the new Coalition policy on climate change because it does not exist. Mr Abbott apparently knows what he is against, but not what he is for.

      Second, as we are being blunt, the fact is that Tony and the people who put him in his job do not want to do anything about climate change. They do not believe in human caused global warming. As Tony observed on one occasion “climate change is crap” or if you consider his mentor, Senator Minchin, the world is not warming, its cooling and the climate change issue is part of a vast left wing conspiracy to deindustrialise the world.”

      “Remember Nick Minchin’s defense of the Howard Government’s ETS was that the Government was panicked by the polls and therefore didn’t really mean it.

      Tony himself has in just four or five months publicly advocated the blocking of the ETS, the passing of the ETS, the amending of the ETS and if the amendments were satisfactory passing it, and now the blocking of it.

      His only redeeming virtue in this remarkable lack of conviction is that every time he announced a new position to me he would preface it with “Mate, mate, I know I am a bit of a weather vane on this, but…..”“

      Malcolm Turnbull - December 7th 2009
      Not much has changed.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      09:46am | 25/07/11

      The Badger The Harass/False Joan

      Tell Gillard to call for Elections so you and Mr Farr can have fresh Coalition policies. Otherwise tough titties the two of you will just have to work on (if the two of you really want to) on the policies the Coalition took to the last Elections. The Coalition policies that they took to the 2010 Elections and drew with the Gillard Labor Party which 12 months are on the nose big time. We are not stupid, calling for Coalition policies to discredit Abbott, so there scrutinize the 2010 Coalition policies.

      Yes False Joan there were heaps that applauded John Howard’s exist from politics to a one term wonder Labor MP and to what we now know the worst Govt in Australia’s political history - Rudd/Gillard Labor Govt.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      10:07am | 25/07/11

      Ooooops - In haste to get out of here - meant to say ‘which 12 months later are on the nose big time’ and ‘exit’ not ‘exist’

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:44pm | 25/07/11

      That is entirely the point. Abbott has dismissed climate change as “crap”, so if he was consistent he wouldn’t be doing anything about it.
      One thing that is crap is his scheme to bribe the polluters. I thought the Liberals were the party of the market place. This scheme is simply corporate socialism.

    • Gary Cox says:

      06:35am | 25/07/11

      I think that the punch should be discussing the carbon tax, it is as Julia and Wayne say a major reform. So when an extremely incompetent government are trying to introduce a ridiculous ‘reform’ the media should be applying the blowtorch closer not backing off because they think people are tiring of the debate.

      Also how many opposition leaders have had much in the way of policy two years out from an election? Kim Beazley certainly never did. Anyway Julia would probably just steal Tony’s policies if he released them now.

    • Peteme says:

      09:34am | 25/07/11

      Good on you Badger. You blabble on about Tony Abbott’s changes of mind and his lack of conviction on anything.

      Well mate, he is certainly not up in front of us lying through his teeth and saying “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”  with the express aim of DECEIVING the electorate into voting for him as Gillard has done.

      In any case, climate change has been taking place since the earth came into being but it seems as though Brown, Gillard et al think it began changing a couple of years ago.

      As for emissions trading schemes, all they are about is paying some other poor slob to turn their lights out so we can keep our lights on. If you want an ETS or a carbon tax, pay out of your own bloody pocket.

    • Mouse says:

      07:12pm | 25/07/11

      Totally agree Gary, especially a major reform that we weren’t going to have before the next election. The same with Opposition policy, 2 years to go so why do we need the fine print now? Labor are screaming the loudest so,as you say, they probably need some really good ideas because they haven’t had much luck with their own.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      06:49am | 25/07/11

      the only reason they’re going to stop doing stories about the carbon tax is because it’s killing the labor party.
      but other papers will still do the stories and labor will still fall in the polls so wasted effort punch

    • John Smythe says:

      10:07am | 25/07/11

      I read it as…not going to do them ON THE PUNCH. Which, given some feedback late last week, is what, myself, and other people wanted.

      We really don’t wish to see 5 articles a day all relating to the carbon tax debate….

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      10:21am | 25/07/11

      I think you’ve misread The Punch, Brian. We have run many anti-carbon tax articles if you look.

      We just all wanted a break, and we think our readers do too.

      And for the record, if we were going to stop doing it to stop the bad news for the Labor party, we wouldn’t have picked today when the polls show an increase in support for the tax.

    • Adam Diver says:

      11:23am | 25/07/11

      Reference to anti-tax pieces please Tory, because I don’t recall many. Farr & Kenny’s positions are well known and they have several pieces. Sharwood and yourself are included for the affirmative side. Apparently for the negative we have clover Moo, and subsets in articles about different issues (truck protest).

      All this and the vast majority of people actually oppose the tax. I am sure if you asked nicely, crazy Moncton could do a piece, or bolt, or president Claus.

      Anyway perhaps I have missed all the anit-tax articles and a couple of links can set me straight.

    • Tory Shepherd says:

      11:39am | 25/07/11

      Easy done Adam - go here http://www.thepunch.com.au/tags/carbon-tax/

      There are more than 100 articles, about seven are pro-carbon tax, and none of those are by Punch staff.

      I think you’ll find you’ve confused ‘thinking AGW is happening’ with ‘thinking a carbon tax is a good idea’

    • Adam Diver says:

      01:13pm | 25/07/11

      Lazy as always, I did that search before I asked the question.

      A tag is hardly an endearing feature of the article. You are tag happy bunch here for sure. Perhaps you should mention how many are anti-tax articles, instead of grouping in comedy pieces as showing some sort of “balance”. It simply highlights the flaws in your logic and what you constitute as “research”.

      If you can point to a anti-tax specific article it would benefit me greatly, bonus points if its recent, and an unreserved apology if the number is equivalent or greater than the pro-tax dribble being served up recently.

    • Tory Shepherd says:

      01:39pm | 25/07/11

      They’re all in there, Adam, I know them all intimately and as I said very few are pro-carbon tax. You’re the one making the claim that we’re all pro-carbon tax, so it’s up to you to prove it. Feel free.

    • Adam Diver says:

      02:52pm | 25/07/11

      @ Tory,

      You made the claim that you “have run many anti-carbon tax articles if you look. “

      So you prove it.

      Its funny how you use this argument of whom makes the claim must present the evidence, except when it comes to AGW of course.

      How about when you make claims you provide evidence, and then when called out about that claim, admit the truth, that you made an assumption, or that you are too lazy (or to busy) to find the evidence. I could understand if you were busy, or just making an educated guess, but you have a terrible habit of describing facts that are nothing more than your personal beliefs or assumptions. Not exactly endearing qualities for a journalist.

    • TimB says:

      06:50am | 25/07/11

      “The hung Parliament and the need to negotiate minority government changed the circumstances “

      No it didn’t. Julia herself admitted she thought she could get a deal in the parliament *without* having to put a carbon tax on the table for the Greens. She chose her path. She *chose* to break her word. She has no-one to blame but herself.

      The constant excuses for her incompetence are wearing thin.

    • Michael says:

      08:30am | 25/07/11

      I loved the way Mal made it the people’s fault for not understanding a hung parliament changes everything, we should have had more political maturity is the feel Mal was going for.

    • BC says:

      01:07pm | 25/07/11

      There may be few excuses for Gillard, but that certainly ISNT an excuse to vote for Abbott.

      That is one thing I just do not understand with the right wing at the moment. I appreciate the Gillard govt. isn’t any good, but seriously, why would any sane human being vote in what would be a significantly worse govt in order to chuck Gillard out? The right-wing one-eyed-ness to get rid of Gillard will hurt everyone.

    • TimB says:

      01:57pm | 25/07/11

      @ BC, exactly what evidence do you have to make the judgment that it would be “worse”?

    • thatmosis says:

      07:05am | 25/07/11

      First of all lets set a few things straight, carbon is a solid, CO2 is a gas that almost all life on earth depends on in some form or another. It is an ordorless gas needed to give life to humans and will never be wiped off the face of the earth. Secondly this Tax on nothing for nothing will do absolutely nothing to eleviate the scourge(sarcasm) of CO2 from the atmosphere but will lead to higher prices paid by each and every Australian with 10% of that money going straight to the UN. Thirdly the compenstaion payments will not cover even a minute amount of the expected price rises that will occur from this Tax on nothing for nothing and finally we were lied to before the election and have been continually lied to ever since by a Government hell bent on appeasing a minority party so they can stay in power at the expense of the Australian way of life and its people. This tax is not about saving the planet but a vain and arrogant attempt by a Government who would rather see Australians suffer than lose their hold on power knowing full well that come 2 years time they will be relegated to history as the worst Government ever to govern (sarcasm) Australia led by the most hated PM ever.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      09:38am | 25/07/11

      @ thatmosis. Your post is one of a very few posts that points out that Australia has committed to give 10% of the carbon tax to a UN Body.

      I have worked at the UN before.

      Combet the Minister for Climate Change has signed an Agreement at Cancun last December to give 10% of any tax to a UN Body to help some developing countries which are affected by global warming. If we collect more than 12 billion dollars a year in the carbon tax it means giving one billion dollars annually goes to such a UN Body.

      I oppose this type of action because ( from first hand experiences) of the extremely high cost of Admin in any UN Body, the waste and also the corruption in the receiving countries.

      I was recently visiting a part of the Himalayan mountains. A handful of houses have solar heaters. Most houses use wood stripped from the bushes and trees causing ecological problems and emitting CO2. The cost of a solar heater when installed would cost about 6% of what it costs in Australia.

      Hence because of the very high costs of labour and materials it is more cost effective to fight global warming by DIRECT ACTION by Australia in some Asian countries rather than in Australia.

      I have pointed out there is a simple and effective Win-Win Direct action to fight global warming in a substantial way to fight global warming. We should lift our embargo on uranium sale to India.

      India gets 2.5% of its electricity from Nuclear Energy and more than 70% from coal. India is short of uranium and coal and wants to increase its electricity from Nuclear Energy to more than 25%. France gets about 80% of its electricity from Nuclear Energy and shows it can be done safely.

      If we help India in its Nuclear Energy Program the annual amount of CO2 emission that will be reduced each year is many times the annual TOTAL CO2 emission in Australia. Why inflict so much pain and harm on Australia by the carbon tax to reduce only 5% of CO2 emission in Australia?

      Finally we should note that Australia’s CO2 annual emission is only about 1.5%. So whatever we do in Australia is irrelevant and it would almost have ZERO impact on global warming. We must keep reminding ourselves that global warming is a global problem and it is not an Australian problem per se.

      The PM must stop being conned by Economics hocus pocus which justify the carbon tax. This hocus pocus Economics foundation of the carbon tax requires the assumption that Australia is the only country on the planet and it is clearly false. This is simple Systems Analysis which sits on to top of Economics analysis.

    • GeorgeL says:

      12:29pm | 25/07/11

      Thanks ATM,

      I still think Tory was behaving like a school teacher very similar to Gillard’s behaviour towards Abbott; ‘do as you are told or I’ll shame you’ All she needed to do was stop publishing your comments and then write a piece asking all bloggers to stop the name calling like Gilltard, Mad Monk etc as Punch wanted to have a more pleasant space. Through the survey they ran they had lots of feedback that some regulars scared the new readers off. They had made a mistake and shouldn’t have allowed the publication of certain words disrespecting the nation’s PM who without controversy became our first atheist female PM, living in a de facto relationship with her boyfriend in the Lodge.

      As adults we may not have agreed but would have had no choice but to obey.

      That being said I am shocked that Punch have suddenly taken the high moral ground in what I call a blog where the public are given a chance to vent their frustration and participate in a debate on the chosen topic.

      I hope Tory & Co haven’t taken orders from Gillard, Swan, Brown, Milne, Conroy etc for this change of tune???? If so Punch might as well ban all the frustrated Liberal supporters exercising their democratic rights in making this hopeless government accountable for their incompetency.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      03:00pm | 25/07/11

      Wow, can’t believe what I am reading after thanking the Punch so many times for an outlet to vent my frustrations about this hopeless Govt and the wreckless spending of our money.

      I think Tory can say that I would be one of those regular bloggers that would scare the new readers off so is best for me to now say my goodbye and thank you for all the time I wasted here.

    • Knemon says:

      03:18pm | 25/07/11

      @ Rosie - “thank you for all the time I wasted here”

      You’re finally making sense Rosie and now you’re leaving, don’t slam the door!

    • The Badger says:

      03:21pm | 25/07/11

      bye bye Rosie
      You know what they say about the door on your way out.

    • bobw says:

      04:20pm | 25/07/11

      @Rosie:  Give our regards to your grandson/nephew.

    • GeorgeL says:

      04:21pm | 25/07/11

      Geez Rosie you know you have made an impact with the response you have received so far.

      I tried to explain to Tory how to be more diplomatic in her approach but for some reason she decided it wasn’t worthy of publication.

      First and last time in here and it happened in a few hours. It wasn’t the bloggers that scared me off but Tory’s lack of common sense to approach ATM in a more tactful way.

    • sylvie says:

      04:39pm | 25/07/11

      @No 1 Rosie.  I like all your comments -  for their good sense. 
      That makes them rare.

      Pearls before swine, No 1 R

    • Joan says:

      07:00pm | 25/07/11

      @bobw

      I would say good riddance to bad rubbish, but we all know she’ll be back. “sylvie” is her niece/grandaughter.

    • Tory Shepherd says:

      07:05pm | 25/07/11

      GeorgeL, you know and I know that this is not your first time in here, just your first time using that name.

    • The Badger says:

      07:48pm | 25/07/11

      oooooooh
      GeorgeL caught in the act.
      Must be feeling a little red face

    • sylvie says:

      08:13pm | 25/07/11

      @Badger Badger burning bright ..........  you’re doing that dress-up thing again.

      It’s unseemly

    • Ben81 says:

      08:21pm | 25/07/11

      It’s a pity the 1st couple posts here have been pushed aside for drama crap, well said thatmosis and B S Goh.
      It’s just so frustrating that all of this is for a futile end and all of our effort won’t even be noticed by the world.

    • Voxpop says:

      03:12pm | 26/07/11

      When the Punch first started I embraced it fully and relished the diversity of views - sadly it decended to one-eyed trolling, abusive posts and a group think mentality from the ‘crowd’ that think they are superior.  I didn’t fill in your survey because I’d already left and only come here rarely to get a laugh or see what the simpletons are het up by - much like tuning the radio into a shock-jock station.  Sure you guys are loud and angry but you come accross as willfuly ignorant and proud of it, egging each other on to be bullys and thinking you’re shit hot.  It’s a shame because some of the articles are well worth reading but the attack dog responses from the ‘usuals’ is completely off-puting - no wonder Abbott is your hero ‘monkey see monkey do’.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:08am | 25/07/11

      Time for Juliar to go. The majority of Australians have had enough of this waste of space of a fake PM!

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      10:24am | 25/07/11

      Hey ATM I’ve emailed you re. your repeated use of ‘Gilltard’. We’re not going to allow that term anymore.

    • Against the Man says:

      10:36am | 25/07/11

      Sounds fine by me but why the sudden change of heart after almost a year in use?

      I hope it is not due to the ALP/Greens pressure on the media and the ‘crap’ they are accusing you of writing?

    • Super D says:

      10:57am | 25/07/11

      It’s offensive to retarded people who have something positive to contribute to our society.

    • John the Zombie says:

      10:58am | 25/07/11

      Tory will you also stop the use of the word mad monk on Tony Abbott. This is as offensive as ATM words on Gillard.

    • GeorgeL says:

      11:09am | 25/07/11

      Hey Tory sadly the respect given to a sitting PM has been lost and no one else to blame but Gillard herself. Wouldn’t it be better not to publish ATM’s comments if it contains that undesirably ‘G’ word than to point him out like a school child for everyone to read that ATM wasn’t listening to you?

      I believe there are always better ways of reprimanding children than to just lay all the blame on to them, after all they need guidance.

    • thedon says:

      11:12am | 25/07/11

      maybe I am not a regular and don’t understand what is going on, but I do not understand what is the problem with the term “Gilltard”, does it mean anything? exactly how is it an unacceptable term?

      This whole blog is has the stench of shutting down a debate.

      It is a debate that is currently central to this countrys polical process, and a measure of the extent to which we are able to express ourselves within the democratic process.

      We have journalists now telling us what we can and can’t say.

      The alternative is to sit and listen to or read journalist opinion.

      The public is getting angered because it is being frustrated by what feels like a conspiracy by politicians and journalists to take away our money and our freedom to even hold and share an opinion.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      11:25am | 25/07/11

      ATM hilarious. No. Part of a larger move to make this a more pleasant space. Through the survey we ran we had lots of feedback that some regulars scare off new readers. Can’t have that! And in all honesty, it probably never should have been allowed.

      @John I haven’t seen that used much on here.

      @George I emailed ATM directly, to no avail.

      @thedon. Yes. This whole blog has the stench of shutting down debate. No debate here, nothing to see. What?

    • sylvie says:

      11:27am | 25/07/11

      There’s a lot offensive stuff here.  And now there’s a G-word.

      I’m “for the Man”.

    • Chrissy says:

      11:33am | 25/07/11

      Yeah ATM besides Juliar Dillard sounds way better.

      PS, i dont care if anyone thinks im a child for saying that. You actually have to like the people who dont like you, or what you do, to care about the fact that they dont like you or what you do.

      Cheers

    • Against the Man says:

      11:39am | 25/07/11

      LOL me scary? Well let me tell new readers I’ll be extra nice to them smile

      @ George - Tory did try to contact me, not her fault. This isn’t a childish reprimand, I want everyone to know what happens. I would have brought it up myself but the email I had given isn’t one I use regularly (I’ll give my regular one next time). If anything this works for my cause smile

    • Que says:

      11:42am | 25/07/11

      Just out of interest Tory, are you going to ban ‘Juliar’ as well?

    • thedon says:

      11:46am | 25/07/11

      Well Tory what what is the concept and intent of “a Carbon tax free week” for this blog and big Mal in the context of a continuing wider community debate, at a time when our government is intent on spending our money and expending effort imposing bad policy on a community that clearly does not consent.

      I am not seeing it outside of this blog, an attempt to shut down the debate that is, and just because you have encounter objection doesn’t mean it wasn’t or isn’t your intent.

      Some bloggers have resigned to your coersion and we will never know how many comments you discard.

      Where did this line of thought even originate?

      Remember we are discussing “the greatest moral challenge of our time an this debate has evolved over many years” why now?

    • Mattb says:

      12:19pm | 25/07/11

      Good to hear Tory.

      And I’m with John the zombie too, no more ‘mad monk’, ‘the budgie smuggler’, ‘bob brown eye’, ‘juliar’ or any childish name calling rubbish from both sides of the debate, it’s pathetic.

      If you have to resort to name calling, or changing a few letters within someone’s name to provide a silly little insult within your argument, well, its obvious you haven’t got a very great argument from the outset.

      If your gonna edit ATM’s words, it’s only fair you edit the rest as well….

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      01:02pm | 25/07/11

      @Tory - So when is AtM, her sockpuppeting and harassment campaign going to be addressed? I find all the above much more likely to scare people off over simple name calling.

    • David S says:

      01:42pm | 25/07/11

      ‘The Punch’ is as prohibition-free as possible.
      It certainly discusses many things I regard as distasteful, dislikable, and indisputably debased.
      And that’s ignoring the shocking syntax, sloppy sentence structure and scandalous spelling we all have to suffer.
      Those anonymous few alleging a ‘ban’ are as asinine as they are absurd.

    • freedom of speech is dead says:

      02:10pm | 25/07/11

      Very disappointing Tory, I’m a great supporter of the carbon tax and ATM’s views are far from my liking but I will fight till the end to give him the right to call the PM anything he wants. They are just words. This is the 1st step down that slippery censorship slope that will one day make Australia the same as the police state and government controlling of the media pseudo-democracy called Singapore!

      I do not like censorship of this kind and it clearly seems the Punch is not neutral.

      Can we still call her Juliar or will you have to run that by your bosses in Canberra Tory?

      The Punch has lost this reader and many more will follow if you guys keep this up!

    • bobw says:

      04:23pm | 25/07/11

      “Censorship”?  “Coercion”?  “Freedom of speech is dead”?!  Get a grip.

    • Mattb says:

      05:36pm | 25/07/11

      FFS, you can hardly call asking people not to use name calling in their posts as ‘censorship’ or ‘the end of freedom of speech’.

    • Jan says:

      05:36pm | 25/07/11

      You know people that use “Juliar” in there comments are in my opinion not even worth reading, if you have to succumb to name calling well there’s no point listening to you.  I read two words in your sentence, then switched off.

    • Super D says:

      07:14am | 25/07/11

      Why would any company pay for pollution permits in anticipation of the scheme being wound up?  All the coalition needs to do is state that they will not refund permits after 2014 and this will destroy the forward market.  This is a talking point, not a problem. 

      I’m pretty sure that the electorate will have absolutely no truck with a scare campaign based on removing a policy they never voted for and don’t want.  It’s the equivalent of knocking someone out, tattooing a penis on their forehead and when they wake up telling them that getting it removed will really hurt.

    • David C says:

      11:00am | 25/07/11

      SuperD my question as well, the permits dont start until the ETS is that right?

    • PTom says:

      12:26pm | 25/07/11

      @Super D,
      Because the will be required to pay for the year 2012 to 2014 that is not the forward market.

      @David C.
      The so called carbon tax is the fixed price part of the trading permit scheme (ETS).

      If the election is held late 2013, this would remain if Abbott is elected because it would be late 2014 before he could get it to the senate thenif the Greens let him.  Abbott could then only stop the ETS coming in 2015 meaning that 3 years of paying for permits would be lost to business then they would demand to be compenstated for.

      Then Liberal Direct Action Plan will pay the same companies not to pollute I am sure we will have plenty of money after Abbott makes all his budget changes.

    • David C says:

      04:15pm | 25/07/11

      PTom sorry I am still confuised , I thought the trading part was what came in to effect 2015? Are there permits before the trading starts?

    • David C says:

      04:17pm | 25/07/11

      Surely you cant have a forward market if there is no market, and thsi pre 2015 market is it OTC or exchange cleared?

    • casba says:

      08:11am | 25/07/11

      Come on fellow Punch readers, when Malcolm Farr says “Let’s have a week without the carbon tax” we all know it is because he is protecting the government from further slipping in the polls, not sparing us the ongoing diatribe of meaningless debate. By mentioning John Howard’s prime ministerial demeanour he is further insulting us and trying to con us into thinking he is actually bipartisan and wanting to convey the sense that he is not just in Labor’s camp.  Come off it Mal - just like Julia, you can’t con us any longer! We read the newspapers-, well we do, just as long as they are still here to read and have not yet fallen victim of this government’s attempts to further stifle debate.

    • John the Zombie says:

      10:04am | 25/07/11

      Think Mal should read Pembo article. Howard basically stood up for Tony and also went on to warn labor about implementing a policy that did not have mandate was suicide. He acknowledge that workchoices was were he fell.

    • MarK says:

      08:16am | 25/07/11

      “Therefore, this will be the first and only mention in The Punch this week of the climate change contest.

      In other words the debate is lost and our beliefs are shot. We have no argument. Better to retreat under a tactical guise than admit the whole thing is cactus and there is nothing they can say to make it better.

      Lol Farr…...

    • The Badger says:

      10:38am | 25/07/11

      It’s true, you have no argument and the simple fact that one side saying NO does not a debate make means you lose on that one too.
      Tony himself has advocated the blocking of the ETS, the passing of the ETS, the amending of the ETS and if the amendments were satisfactory passing it, and now the blocking of it and the dismantling of it if he slithers into government with a bagful of NOthing.
      A weathervane is his ideological compass.

    • MarK says:

      10:53am | 25/07/11

      Way to argue your case son. Negative talk of Abbott.

      That will fix it.

    • The Badger says:

      01:44pm | 25/07/11

      WOW
      mark
      I’ll believe what Abbott says because it is in the Australian
      Good work mark - a true double negative there.

      Take another week off, actually take three off.

    • The Badger says:

      06:16pm | 25/07/11

      And good to talk with you again mark

      And feel free to “reply” to any of my musings when next they let you access the internet.

    • Old Clive says:

      08:21am | 25/07/11

      The sky outside of my window is as blue as it was 20years ago, but then again I don’t live in a smog bound city, or a city overloaded with the outgoing product of bulls like Canberra.

    • Old Fella says:

      09:57am | 25/07/11

      Please let us know when it starts falling.

    • Higgins says:

      08:22am | 25/07/11

      Abbott should ditch “direct action” before the next election. Failure in Durban to reach a binding global agreement would justify this approach. The Liberal policy should be that Australia will take action if and when major emitter nations take action, but not before. The money saved could be spent on initiatives that will actually improve Australia’s environment.

    • PTom says:

      12:36pm | 25/07/11

      The money saved interesting that reports show that taking action now will save us more money then taking action later these reports also show that governments picking winners does not work.

      What are initiatives that actually improve Australia’s environment.?
      What like household solar, wind, tidal, gas, home insulation, water tanks, biofuels, eletcric cars, plant more trees or use recycle water.

    • Bris Jack says:

      08:25am | 25/07/11

      Is their such a school where you can train an attack canine into a Prime Minister.
      The attempt at different voices and personalities that are concocted to suit the occasion are sickening and off putting. Thank goodness for the remote. 
      Julia makes the Three Faces of Eve look like a fairy tale.

    • John Phillip Nicholls says:

      08:25am | 25/07/11

      @Fiddler: “She doesn’t just struggle to sound Prime Ministerial, she struggles to be Prim Ministerial, or act in the countries best interests. End of story.”
      ...and Tony Abbott does?
      Can you really imagine that cretin Abbott represent Australia overseas? Agree or not, at least the PM represents something, and has the guts to stand up for change.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      09:57am | 25/07/11

      at least the PM represents something, and has the guts to stand up for change,,,,as if

    • Fiddler says:

      02:32pm | 25/07/11

      Yep, I sure can, would be great.

      And the only thing keeping Julia “standing” are the strings holding her up, pity for her they don’t keep her approval rates up!!!

    • Michael says:

      08:27am | 25/07/11

      Come on everybody, Mal has had enough of the carbon tax, he just wants this one last chance this week to have a parting shot at Tony Abbott and then we all agree to just drop it…OK?

      Nice one Mal, no partisan leanings here, poor soul, must have hurt to nearly admit that Julia is crap, and no amount of you saying otherwise is going to catch on with readers smile

      Have a nice week.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      10:25am | 25/07/11

      Actually it was our idea, not Mal’s Michael, and we asked him to use this column as a sign off on a carbon tax free week.

    • Michael says:

      11:00am | 25/07/11

      Yes Tory, and that shed’s no new light from which to view my point of Mal Farr’s musings on this site or this topic.

      Thankyou for commenting though, i appreciate the generosity you show with time spared to reply and comment to posters here.

    • thedon says:

      11:28am | 25/07/11

      Who is we Tory?

      Why do we decree the need for a carbon tax free week?

      Is we still receiving money from the government to continue pumping carbon tax propaganda into our homes like the rest of the media?

      If so, in the absence of a vote on such an important issue why is our only chance to register opinion being shut down?

    • luke says:

      01:24pm | 25/07/11

      Tory, It looks like The Punch have been paid off by the Gillard Government with the announcement of no carbon tax article. What, do you think, out of mind and out of sight is the best way to improved the carbon tax popularity?

      Who would have thought a media organization would censor themselves.

      It seems like all the little journo’s are running scared.

    • Tory Shepherd says:

      01:43pm | 25/07/11

      @thedon ‘We’ is the Punch team, and we did because we felt we needed a breather from carbon tax. You’ll note you’re still free to discuss it down here in the comments section, so we’re hardly stifling debate.

      Ah, yeah, no money from the Government, that’s pretty ludicrous really.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:12pm | 25/07/11

      Why does everything have to be a big conspiracy to some of you people?  It’ll be good and refreshing to have a break from it for a short while around here, don’t worry it’ll still be around boring us to tears for a long while yet.

    • Z says:

      11:59pm | 25/07/11

      Tory Shepherd,
      I don’t know if you have realised that your good friend Mal, Is well, Farr left of center.

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      08:28am | 25/07/11

      About time - good call Mal and the Team at the Punch…..

      Now do any of you feel up to writing a article on Hinch and the disgraceful censorship that’s been put on him for identifying known child rapists?

    • Masks Inc. says:

      01:34pm | 25/07/11

      “About time - good call”.  Hmm

    • Against the Man says:

      03:25pm | 25/07/11

      Well said Seano! smile

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      07:57pm | 25/07/11

      @AtM, sorry your the only one that needs a puppet around here.

      But your efforts as a right wing fanatical troll -do- continue to amuse me, maybe one day I’ll see you running around in a Templar outfit, shooting teenage labor members screaming “Down with the left!”?

      Or maybe the Punch can do some moderation for a change and ban you for good…......... after all, nothing of value would be lost!

    • Masks Inc. says:

      09:26pm | 25/07/11

      How did I get away with that?

      Scot free!

    • Gregg says:

      09:08am | 25/07/11

      Great one Mal, you an ardent Labor supporter want to take your bat and go home but not before giving the opposition a good clout.
      Of course there will be strong opposition to any of the messes that Labor are creating and it is the government raising the stakes.

      As for
      ” Here’s just one. Mr Abbott says that if carbon pricing legislation was passed in the next few months, when he won government in two years time, he would tear up the plan.

      That would mean companies which have paid for pollution permits would be entitled to ask for their money back. Having funded that process, the Abbott government would then invoke Direct Action which would require it to pay those same companies to reduce pollution.

      This would involve huge amounts of taxpayers’ money and no one has explained where it would come from. “

      It has been explained Mal and you just choose not to acknowledge that:
      Tony Abbott has explained government expenditure is a total budgetting function, being responsible with expenditure it is called and you have plenty of examples with the opposite by Labor.

      Of course, just as the former Coalition government took time to bring the national budgetting back into surplus from a massive deficit left by the previous Labor government, it will take time again.
      Budgetting needs to be a longer term approach Mal, and not just pebdulum swings from massive expenditures to just as massive tax grabs in attempting to show good fiscal management and this is something Labor fail to understand just as you would seem to fail comprehending that the Direct Action Plan offers far more flexibility and less complexity.

      Here you have a government again foisting something so complex on the public, something obviously opposed by the majority of Australians, that yes it will take some undoing, just like the debacles of the NBN, the Cattle trade and the People trading in the hope that people smuggling will be lessened.

      I just wonder how someone purporting to make their living from reporting political issues can have such a narrow view of life.
      Are you attempting to keep Juliar happy by not reporting her crap

    • SimonTigey says:

      01:45pm | 25/07/11

      Yes it seems does Mal Farr not understand how governments work. He is a rusted on Labor voter because his dad voted Labor and so on. He has no understanding of how the carbon tax actually works and he has no idea how Tony Abbott’s direct action plan works either. Yet here he is writing on Punch when we have all been told by Tory Shepherd to stop calling poor Jools names because she and Bob Brown don’t like criticism or anything that makes this incompetent government look bad.  This is all a joke and Punch has instantly lost credibility!!!!!!

    • Steve Putnam says:

      06:20pm | 28/07/11

      @SimonTigey Tony Abbott’s ‘bribe the polluter scheme’ works by taking taxpayer dollars out of general revenue and blowing it. Can you find an economist who thinks any differently?

    • I hate pies says:

      06:04pm | 01/08/11

      Steve Putman, are you saying that you want the big polluters to pay…but not yourself? You selfish man. Don’t we have to do something to save the planet? Or do you only want to do something as long as it doesn’t affect you?
      I can’t understand the logic of the people who are whipping their moral high horse to death but don’t actually want to give anything up themselves.
      I ask you thing Putman - if the money given to business actually reduced emissions, would you be happy to pay your fair share?
      One more question (please take your partisan hat off for this one, and look at it objectively) - please explain to me how Gillard’s scheme doesn’t waste a whole heap of money? Surely you can see that a big money-go-round with the government and UN siphoning off their “share” is extremely in efficient.

    • JamesD says:

      09:27am | 25/07/11

      Without doubt Tony Abbott would be the most negative policy free leader of a major party we have seen since Billy McMahon. It almost beggars bekief that he is taken so seriously by some sections of the media and the Liberal Party. Australia used to have a reasonably mature level of debate on some issues and we do have a high level of eduaction but the way Abbott carries on anyone would think we are a nation of morons. The world is moving on climate change - move now Australia or the future generations will pay a price.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      10:02am | 25/07/11

      I suggest that just before election day, you go out and buy a dozen boxes of tissues, you’re going to need them

    • John says:

      12:00pm | 25/07/11

      Could’nt agree more… yes Abbott is the recycled “vissionary vacum” McMahon but this time with attitude!
      Will this mob ever get it right, losing Costello and not promoting you know who as their leader just shows their inability to pick winners.

    • Peter#1 says:

      09:29am | 25/07/11

      Malcolm,
      I think your headline should read ” Government says let’s screw the people and impose a Carbon Tax”
      That would make for a more realistic headline.
      If you or the government think that by not mentioning the Carbon Tax for one week will make it any less unpopular, you have seriously underestimated the majority of Australians.
      I totally agree with the comment from Higgins at 8.22 am. It sounds like the only sensible approach.

    • Matt says:

      09:41am | 25/07/11

      ‘Armageddon is coming!’, that gave me a laugh - heard that a bit the last few weeks. Abbott sure has a lot of questions with no answers yet…  And I noticed you said ‘comedian Lord Monckton’, while comedian is apt I hear he’s no longer a Lord.

    • Dash says:

      10:03am | 25/07/11

      @Matt - can you please help me understand. If this policy is about the environment and making “big polluters pay”, why is the ALP discriminating against families on the basis of income? Everyone earning 80,000 a year or more will have their living standards reduced. Regardless of their carbon footprint or how they pollute.

      Why is the ALP rewarding single mothers with 7 kids to 7 different fathers, and 20 year olds living at home, but punishing people who have got off their arses and worked hard to make a better life for themselves?

      I’d like to understand WTF wealth redistribution has to do with the environment? And I would suggest to you that I am not alone.

      Why does the ALP insist on punishing people for their success? the people hit with this socialist policy, are the ones already paying the most tax! The ones already funding the ALPs agenda. Yet the hand goes back into the taxpayers pockets!

      Coal mines (the ones producing the agent to pollute) will be compensated because of the size of their union, but people earning 80,000 a year or more will be punished regardless of how they pollute?

      Punish the wealth creators and reward the wealth destroyers. Please explain to me why that adds up to sensible policy.

    • Matt says:

      10:41am | 25/07/11

      hehe amusing comment Dash.. A lot of questions from my simple observation - round 2 from last week perhaps?  Policy details available on the net somewhere, I’m sure if you googled enough like everyone else you’ll find ‘em.

    • Dash says:

      11:54am | 25/07/11

      Matt, you finding these questions amusing is exactly the attitude that has the ALPs primary down at 27%!

      I’ve read the policy details. It tells me the ALP are going to punish the taxpayers and reward people on welfare. Tells me the ALP is going to discriminate against families on the basis of income, not on the basis of pollution. It tells me, the coal industry and steel industries will be compensated but families punished.

      Apparently if you earn $80,000 a year or more, you deserve to have your living standards reduced?? Just doesn’t say why.

      The policy papers, do not tell me why wealth redistribution and socialist tax policy is required if this is about the environment.

      I was hoping you might be able to help me understand.

      Clearly you can’t. I don’t blame you because no one seems to be able to answer that. I think we all have a lot of unanswered questions. That’s why I put mine to you.

    • Matt says:

      12:56pm | 25/07/11

      If you say so…....

    • SimonTigey says:

      02:02pm | 25/07/11

      Matt, Dash’s questions and response are very good, you can’t respond can you, you have no answers. Your comments are so hollow and mindless, unless you can properly answer that key question you should just shut up!!!!!

    • Matt says:

      02:29pm | 25/07/11

      ‘you can’t respond can you, you have no answers. Your comments are so hollow and mindless, unless you can properly answer that key question you should just shut up!!!!!’

      lol… make me SimonTigey.. you might think they’re good questions, I don’t.  If you and Dash are too dull to understand tax that’s your problem..

    • Dash says:

      03:22pm | 25/07/11

      @Matt - I’m an accountant. Call me dull if you must, but please don’t tell me I don’t understand tax. That would really upset me - lol.

    • Matt says:

      03:57pm | 25/07/11

      Well then, being an accountant I’m sure you’re not only busy this time of year but also well aware of wealth distribution and the tax system. 

      Change costs money, I found the answers to your questions in 2 clicks.  I’m also trying to blow you off because of this -

      Apparently if you earn $80,000 a year or more, you deserve to have your living standards reduced??

      Do you see the first word you used?  ‘Apparantely’

      I went to the website, clicked once and found this -

      ‘Kate and Luciano have just bought a house and are both working hard to pay off the mortgage.  Kate has a job in an aged care home and Luciano is a mechanic at the local service station. They earn around $50,000 each.  They have two teenage boys at the local school. Their expected average cost of living impact is $653 per year.  They will get assistance of about $679, made up of about $73 extra in payments and $606 in tax cuts.  They are $26 better off after the changes’

      I know you’re an accountant and all, and I’m not a teacher but $50000 + $50000 = $100000.  And they’ll still be better off… I’m not interested in arguing with someone who’s more interested in listening to scare campaigns than doing the research for themselves..

    • SimonTigey says:

      04:24pm | 25/07/11

      Matt, how old are you 12 maybe 13 tops. Look, I have an accounting degree, if people with accounting degree’s can’t understand it how can a layman. it’s a great question and cuts to the very essence of the whole tax. Why only certain people pay the carbon tax and some don’t??? Still by answering that you would highlight that it s not about the environment but socialist wealth distribution. So all you do is come up with pathetic ways of deflecting the truth, just like Gillard does. In fact I just can’t wait for the day Gillard gets knived and her carbon tax gets dumped along with your childish contributions.

    • Tator says:

      04:29pm | 25/07/11

      Ok Matt,
      try that with a single income family on the same income with the same children, the tax cut instead of being $606 dollars a year are now $3 with the same costs of living increases yet no extra support and no extra income.  This is on top of a single tax free threshold compared to two tax free thresholds not to mention paying higher amount of total tax to start with.  Mind you, the estimator on Clean Energy Future.gov does not cover this scenario but using the next one with two children 1 aged 5 to 12 the other 13-17 shows that the couple with two incomes receives positive discrimination in that all of the projected COL from the carbon tax is covered with left overs whilst the single income family still has to shell out more to cover the shortfall.  Now that is not even taking into account the fact that the single income family pays more tax than the dual income family already for exactly the same family income.

    • Dash says:

      04:54pm | 25/07/11

      @Matt - Ha - sorry man but $50,000 is not $80,000 or more. No wonder you vote ALP!

      The tax scales have been changed so that despite the tax free threshhold being increased to 18,000 a year, the second and third tier tax rates have been increased. The idea is that anyone earning $80,000 a year or more, does not get a tax cut. With increased costs resulting from the carbon tax, that effectively means that everyone on $80,000 a year or more has had their living standards reduced! That’s the comment I made. Sorry if you find that confusing!

      To make matters worse, people who pay very little tax get tax cuts, but people who pay significant amounts of tax, get to wear the cost of the carbon tax without any assistance.

      Go to ALP propaganda if you like, but you wont get the truth there mate. The ALP seems to have had an honesty by-pass!

      You’ll notice your ideal world example has a 50/50 split of income. Very convienient that isn’t it! If one earned $80K and the other $20K they would have the same household income but they wouldn’t be in front at all because the person earning 80,000 would get zero! Lies damn lies and statistics.

      And yes, it’s very clear that you’re only interested in listening to the ALPs bullshit!

      By your responses, it’s also clear you dont earn over $80,000 a year and therefore you already don’t pay very much tax! And you probably don’t have a dependant wife, Sydney mortgage, kids or spend 13hours a day working. You’re probably 20 something and still living at home!

    • Matt says:

      04:58pm | 25/07/11

      Guys, read my original comment…. FFS what am I, a spokesperson for a price on carbon?  I’m not interested in your crap questions, like I said, I found that with 2 clicks - you could do the same….

      Amusing SimonTigey you calling me a child.. Remember this - ‘you can’t respond can you, you have no answers. Your comments are so hollow and mindless, unless you can properly answer that key question you should just shut up!!!!!’  - ahahaha - your words mate, sounds pretty childish to me. 

      You want childish, try this ‘Look, I have an accounting degree’  - what do I care if you have an accounting degree?  In fact, that speaks worse for you than me - if you can’t understand it (or haven’t bothered) perhaps you should try for another career?

      Tator - I am not the government. I didn’t make the rules.  Read my original comment and feel free to have a laugh..

    • AdamC says:

      05:47pm | 25/07/11

      Matt, I think you’ve rather come a cropper here.

      Btw, Dash, you are spot on. This is a redistributionist cash churn. It belies any claim by the gov that this exercise is about environmental outcomes.

    • The Investor says:

      08:07pm | 25/07/11

      I am an institutional investor and a merchant baker. I graduated from the London school of Economics and the Carbon Tax makes sense to me. And as if that wasn’t enough, not one of my Economist colleagues understand how Abbott’s direct action plan will work despite costing every Australian household $1,300 per year. NO wonder he can’t get anyone to back one to back him up.
      See how easy it is to have wonderful qualifications on the internet?
      god I love this internet thingy. Next week I’m going to have a degree in particle physics and quantum mechanics.

      The only you way you prove your knowledge is by your words in this thingy we call the internet all your claims are meaningless.

    • Matt says:

      06:50am | 26/07/11

      True The Investor, funny how I didn’t even mention anything about a carbon tax yet am attacked over it.. I think I’ll do my tax myself this year after these comments coming from acccountants…

    • James In Footscray says:

      09:46am | 25/07/11

      Forget the carbon tax, let’s move on. By writing another article about the carbon tax. Excellent work Mal!

    • fairsfair says:

      09:52am | 25/07/11

      *sigh of relief*

      I think a break is all this relationship needs. We’ll all feel much better and return with a fresh perspective, after some time apart.

      wink

    • John the Zombie says:

      09:59am | 25/07/11

      I want Howard Back

    • Rob says:

      12:50pm | 25/07/11

      I want Paul Keating Back!

    • Billy Hill says:

      04:49pm | 25/07/11

      Im from Wheelabarrowback,go figure

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      05:34pm | 25/07/11

      John and Rob, you guys toss the coin - I’d happily take either one back right now.

    • Ian1 says:

      10:00am | 25/07/11

      Hang on, are Borwn\Gillard\Oakshitt going to go against the people and still try to introduce the carbon tax? 
      What is the point of endless debate when the so called leaders dont listen?
      Undoubtedly and without rebuttle, over two thirds of the population are opposed to this tax.

      i thought they had given up on it.  I also heard we are signing a second deal with Malaysia??  Or are they only now about to sign the first deal with Malaysia that was supposedly a done deal months ago? 

      i am so confused by the incompetence.

    • graham says:

      11:04am | 25/07/11

      Gillard tells lies, so she’s a liar.
      Abbott tells lies, but he’s not a liar.
      Gillard supports a carbon tax, and that’s bad.
      Abbott supports a carbon tax, but that’s good.
      Gillard wants to penalise the polluters, and that’s bad.
      Abbott wants to penalise the taxpayer, but that’s good.
      Gillard replaces Rudd, and that’s bad.
      Abbott replaces Turnbull, but that’s good.
      (And before you jump out of your traps, we elect Parties, not Leaders}.
      Gillard changed her position on carbon, and that’s bad.
      Abbott changed his position, and that’s good.
      Labor governs with the help of the Greens and Indies, and that’s bad.
      Liberal opposes, {and has previousy governed), with the help of the Nationals, and that’s good.
      Gillard has no religous loyalties or favors to pay, and that’s bad.
      Abbott is irrevicably obliged and loyalty-sworn to the catholic church, and that’s good.
      Gillard produces policies, and that’s bad.
      Abbott produces nothing but that’s good.
      Gillard says, “Yes! We can!, and that’s bad.
      Abbott says, “No! We can’t!, and that’s good.

      Such is the ‘Creed of the Conservatives’  circa 2011.

    • John the Zombie says:

      11:28am | 25/07/11

      Graham you seem to forget the govt said they would prop up polluters who cant afford the tax to secure power generation needs. Now were will this money come from as the 100% of carbon tax revenue has already been invested. hmm me thinks overseas borrowings. More debt and inturn who will pay for it. Well I guess it will be the taxpayer.

      Tell me how much interest is on 43 billion dollars because that is the borrowing for the NBN.

      Geez glad labor followers pay attention to thier parties policies.

      Yawn fail Graham

    • Dash says:

      11:43am | 25/07/11

      @Graham - You are nieve and believe everything the ALP propaganda feeds you.

      Discriminating against households on the basis of income is not “penalising polluters”! If you believe this policy is about penalising polluters when the ALP is compensating the coal industry but punishing householders on the basis of what they earn, you are crazy!

      The ALP are playing socialist wealth redistribution games here. That’s all this tax is. The sooner people realise that the government is reducing the living standards of all Australians earning $80,000 or more, on the basis of their income alone, the sooner they will realise that this policy is a fraud.

      The ALP punish the taxpayers and reward the people on welfare! Bullshit socialist crap! Socialism dressed up as environmentalism.

    • The Badger says:

      12:02pm | 25/07/11

      Excellent graham
      The right wing rabble have nothing to say.
      All they can offer is right wing tripe.

    • Knemon says:

      12:11pm | 25/07/11

      Well done Graham…one of the more entertaining comments I’ve read on The Punch. Cheers.

    • TimB says:

      12:23pm | 25/07/11

      I’m sorry I must have missed the bit where Badger has ever said anything worthwhile.

    • Rob says:

      01:04pm | 25/07/11

      THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!

    • The Badger says:

      01:09pm | 25/07/11

      You miss most things timmie
      It’s unavoidable for a Cyclops like you.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:07pm | 25/07/11

      If anything graham thanks for illustrating an explanation of the mystery of why a few of you are still clinging on to this government - at least half your points are plain wrong and you’re being extremely simplistic about the rest. 
      Now I get it, you just lie to yourselves.

    • Knemon says:

      03:09pm | 25/07/11

      Ben81 @ 02:07pm “at least half your points are plain wrong”

      Why don’t you enlighten us to which “points are plain wrong”? You say at least half, I’m having trouble finding just one!

    • Mark says:

      04:35pm | 25/07/11

      Excellent comment, graham. Says it all, really.

    • MarK says:

      05:40pm | 25/07/11

      Was my reply “nasty”? new paradigms are so iffy. Never know what you get I guess.

    • graham says:

      05:44pm | 25/07/11

      John the Zombie, (whose parents must have sussed his potential when naming him), and his ‘yawn fail” comment, (cutting stuff, that), and Dash who says that I’m neive, (no-one’s ever said that before, so thanks), and of course Ben81 who insists that half of my points are just plain wrong but doesn’t say why but adds that the other half were simplistic forget the first rule. You can’t just say nay, nay, nay, ( it’s called negative arguing or Abbottism), without putting forth an alternative. That would be like me saying no to Ben81’s claim of my simplisticism without me explaining that I was writing for him.
      And was Socialist Wealth Redistribution what Howard embarked on prior to his welcome demise? Or was that vote-buying? Unsuccessful vote-buying?

    • Ben81 says:

      06:21pm | 25/07/11

      It’s simple guys, here I was thinking I wouldn’t have to state the obvious for you.  Silly me.

      if Abbott lies then call him a liar, sure, but that will never excuse Gillard’s lie during an election campaign.  He never supported a “carbon tax”, daring to talk about one in comparison to something else isn’t an endorsement and he never pledged to introduce one.  He has also pledged *not* to penalise the taxpayer or raise taxes for his scheme, while Gillard’s does through costs passed on.  If he talks about raising taxes to cover things it’ll be another story.  The Liberals went to the election like most in living memory as a coalition with the Nationals, so yes telling people what they are voting for during an election is a good thing.  Saying Gillard produces policies and Abbott doesn’t is just ignorant and wrong, they’re not exactly hidden.  He’s also been consistent with wqhat he brought to the election and Gillard clearly hasn’t, so implying he’s the one who has ‘changed position’ is just weird.

      I think that’ll do for now….

    • Chris L says:

      06:46pm | 25/07/11

      I sometimes get that impression myself Graham.

    • John the Zomnie says:

      07:53pm | 25/07/11

      So the only reply you can post to me is to attack my name. Yawn. Like most the commentators on this post I use a screen name.

      Epic fail and Graham EABFDC you kutta sala.

    • graham says:

      10:23am | 26/07/11

      John the Zombie! tells me that my post was an epic fail and “..
      EABFDC you kutta sala”. What can I say? I’m speechless!  I didn’t even think he liked me, let alone loved me. Yet here he is hating my post but confessing via a lewd proposal to kiss and make up. At least I think that’s what he said. It’s hard to tell whether it was what I think it was or simply Zombie gibberish like the rest of his rants. Y’know, like Abbottism.

    • Eddie says:

      11:25am | 25/07/11

      Malcolm you are right, Labor and the Greens are not in coalition, it’s far worse, Labor owes more than half their seats to Greens preferences…

    • Matt says:

      04:43pm | 25/07/11

      Green preferences eh…

      I’m sorry, but you need to go back & get a basic understanding of how preferential voting works when electing the federal house of representatives.  Unless you haven’t noticed, you - personally - not the party you vote for - allocate your preferences.

    • Tator says:

      07:38pm | 25/07/11

      Matt,
      to clarify Eddies point,
      Labor owes more than half of their seats to the approximately 80%  of voter’s who voted Green preferencing the ALP above the Coalition, all Eddie did was shorten it.

    • Adam Diver says:

      11:34am | 25/07/11

      Poor form Punch. Every debate here is circular because most people are all to happy to speak and not listen.

      Secondly its been done to death because that is the political climate at the moment. Essentially we are publishing any more because it is boring, boo hoo, grow up.

      If you want to spice things up how about an article from an anti-tax or skeptic point of view. Plenty of articles here attacking their credibility I am sure they would appreciate a right of reply.

      Lastly its a 10+ billion tax imposted in a direct lie before an election, with no other country coming with us, and for no environmental benefit. It has plunged Labors supports to record lows, stirred enough emotion to facilitate protest from the right (a rare incurrence), has the greens hands all over the package, been costed incorrectly and had propaganda money spent on it.

      If this is not worth talking about, then what the hell is, child-free fine dining?

      If people don’t want to read the one carbon tax article amongst the 6-10 daily articles they can skip it, its not that hard.

    • fairsfair says:

      11:43am | 25/07/11

      Adam, I get where you are coming from - but it is achieving nothing. All of those things you mention are discussed in the comments thread of practically every single CT article posted. It is just going around and around in circles. I can’t work out how the mods are not crouching in a corner slapping the side of their heads at the pospect of reading through more comments containing the same content, communicating the same thing (nothing but brick wall comments from every direction).

      Yes, I guess you can stand back and say that it is poor form - but on the other hand is it not sending the message to some people that the quality of debate is no good enough? I’d love for the entire media to send that message to parliament house, “We are taking a week off - take a long hard look at yourselves and maybe we will be willing to discuss legitimate matters upon our return”. Just imagine what they’d get up to in that week though *shudder* wink

    • Adam Diver says:

      01:20pm | 25/07/11

      @ Fairsfair, there is hardly an insightful debate on this place, on any subject or thread. Its not the mods fault, its human nature, but to single out one issue, that is dominating airwaves for some significant reason, particularly when an opposing viewpoint has not been presented by the published author, is deceptive, lazy, incompetent or childish.

      If you don’t like the circular nature of the debate, I am sure people have enough self-control to skip the article. From a punch perspective, it gets plenty of comments so it must stir up some emotion from the readers, and the moderators would have no idea about the context of the arguments, they would scan for obcious spam and innappropriate comments and move on.

      If the moderators get tired of moderating then they should probably look for a new profession wouldn’t you think. So as far as I see it, I still see no legitimate reason to not only avoid publishing on a topic but to do so in advance.

      For instance what happens if a news story breaks where say, an internal document was leaked with Julia Gillard arguing for a bi-partisan approach to carbon emissions, that did not include an ets or carbon tax? The punch can now not comment on that story.

      BTW that is not a hypothetical.

    • fairsfair says:

      01:33pm | 25/07/11

      fair point.

      I was only using the mods as an example - I am sure that is not a reason why the decision has been made.

    • Shane Stone says:

      11:39am | 25/07/11

      Malcolm your mocking trivialisation of Christopher Moncton does you little credit; you are a serious journalist so start writing like one again - whats happened to you?

    • John says:

      12:00pm | 25/07/11

      @Shane-why don’t you take a closer look at Monckton? The man has no scientific qualifications although you believe the opposite. Why would one not mock this idiot? He has lied about so many matters. He has never published in any peer reviewed journal although, given your faith in his nonsense. you would have expected him to do so. This man is a charlatan and a fraud.
      The fact that Malcolm mocks this fool is good evidence that he is a serious journalist and full credit for that. People like you need to go further than give any credence to Monckton because he says what you want to hear.
      I will listen to a serious scientist who is pro or anti action on carbon-that is irrelevant. But to listen to a pompous idiot with no credentials is sheer stupidity. You can put Abbott into that category. According to him, carbon dioxide is weightless!

    • james says:

      12:35pm | 25/07/11

      Why listen to any ‘person’ - I just listen to teh facts they espouse - then I check those facts and if they are true then they are added to my canon of knowledge - anyone that shoots the messenger or judges a book by their cover is intellectually dishonest (and probably retarded)

    • sylvie says:

      12:54pm | 25/07/11

      @John,  Call Abbott an idiot (while it’s still allowed), if you insist…....but “pompous”??  Now, pompous you’ll find here, you’ll find it everywhere here (even The Badger can do pompous),  but it doesn’t apply to Abbott.

      Did you know tall people are more likely to get cancer?
      Scientists for you

    • The Badger says:

      02:16pm | 25/07/11

      John
      sylvie is right,
      In order to be truly pompous, you must have inherited peerage.
      and then, undiscovered bastard or not you have the right, dare I say the responsibility to be pompous.
      Turgid or pretentious is a better adjective to use when describing abbott.

    • sylvie says:

      02:32pm | 25/07/11

      @The Badger,  Turgid Tony -  that’s quite good.  Reluctantly agree.  You’re smarter than I realised, reggiebadge.

    • John says:

      02:36pm | 25/07/11

      @Badger: thanks for that. I was clearly wrong in my assessment of Abbott. You hit it right on the button.

      @james: Not so-If Bozo the Clown tells me that global warming is a scam I am not going to listen. This is the level that Monckton is on. If Bjorn Lomberg (anti carbon action) says the same I will be more inclined to listen and assess his arguments. The same applies to Will Steffen. This is not intellectual dishonesty but simply a matter to assessing the opinions of those who have studied the science in depth. To take Monckton’s word is intellectual retardation.

      @Sylvie: did you really read the article on the link between height and cancer or just skim the headline? “Scientists for you” is the lazy response of the unthinking. The article simply pointed out what the data was saying. The authors also state that bad lifestyle choices are far more likely to be associated with cancer. I always am amazed that those of you who downgrade science are among the first to seek their help when you really need it.

    • sylvie says:

      04:51pm | 25/07/11

      @John:  Pretentious John,  I’m not seeking help from scientists. 
      You know what you can do with your lecture, don’t you.

      I’m ................. Seeking Seano

      He’s around here somewhere

    • Chrissy says:

      11:50am | 25/07/11

      I eat carbon tax articles for breakfast, dont stop them, i hate going out on an empty stomach

    • Cat says:

      01:04pm | 25/07/11

      think of it as an enforced de-tox diet, true there is no proof de-tox diets work but at the very least you’ll get some added fibre…

    • PeterMax says:

      11:57am | 25/07/11

      Julia Gillard, Labor and their many supporters in the media badly want the public to move on and forget about Gillards economy and job destroying carbon tax which will do little or nothing to help change the climate. As sound thinking Lord Monckton and others know. The most important issue in Australia today is to kill off the carbon tax. Only once that is done will Tony Abbott be able to sensibly get onto and deal effcetively other issues.

    • Fredrich hayek says:

      12:17pm | 25/07/11

      Summary of Article “We’re losing the Carbon Tax battle so let’s not talk about it and hopefully people will move on to other things”. Bad luck - I’m going to use the open threads to constantly keep it at the forefront. Just a I use my twitter feed to get out the facts on an hourly basis

    • Thommo says:

      12:29pm | 25/07/11

      Why does the Giltard think she can get away with this massive misappropriation of funds to the international communist consipracy?

    • voiced reason says:

      01:00pm | 25/07/11

      Oooh yeah, you feel like a big man now don’t ya Thommo.. Feels good don’t it, nice adrenalin rush!  Calling her Giltard, you sure showed her!! I bet she’s really having a re-think now!! She might even be crying, you’re the man mate! Way to show her who’s boss! 

      Maybe you could use your other brain cell to think up another insult about her name…

    • Thommo says:

      01:43pm | 25/07/11

      her tears are like the sweetest wine to me

    • melle says:

      01:45pm | 25/07/11

      @Thommo,  Because Gillard the Gorgeous is the handmaiden of Prime Minister Brown -  she must hand over lots of money to the international communist conspiracy.
      Will she get away with it?  Lots of Australians seem happy to see the money go.
      She might get away with it.

    • Alvin Purple says:

      12:34pm | 25/07/11

      Does Tony Abbott really excite ladies and female voters?? Will he have an “Election” shortly?

    • Tezza says:

      01:13pm | 25/07/11

      “companies which have paid for pollution permits would be entitled to ask for their money back”. No. If they have been warned that the carbon tax is going to be repealed, and no refunds, then they should have no claim for recompense.

    • Richard says:

      01:16pm | 25/07/11

      Ok, you don’t wanna talk about it? Fine. It was Gillard who escalated this issue into the politcal ‘Stalingrad’ of our times, anyway. Abbott just listened to the will of the people and stood up for them, but if you leftists need to call a ceasefire for a week, go ahead.

      But let me give you guys a bit of friendly advice:~ use this week wisely. Use this week to do some deep thinking and come up with some acceptable answers to the questions I keep asking that none you seem to be able to answer, which fundamentally undermines the validity of your position.

      Q1) In light of the growing number of eminent scientists disputing the so-called ‘consensus’ position, and the growing body of empirical evidence (as opposed to speculative computer modelling based on flawed assumptions), which shows that climate change is not so dangerous and disastrous after all, which shows that a doubling of CO2 will only contribute to ~1 degree Celsius rise in mean global temperature (due to negative feedback loops), and that there would be huge benefits to an increase in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere to the floral kingdom of life on this planet, why is a Carbon Reduction Plan of such pressing and dire need anyway?

      Q2) Assuming for argument sake that there is a dire need to reduce Carbon emissions, why hasn’t the government planned for the implementation of a Carbon CONSUMPTION Tax, which has a chance of actually achieving the aim of reducing Australia’s per capita emissions fairly and transparently, instead of a Big Fat Tax on Productive Industry, which will do nothing at all except unfairly hobble the viability of Australian jobs and Australian Industry, acting in fact as nothing less than a competitive inhibitor which gives foreign products and goods an unfair advantage over home grown our Australian ones?

      Until there are reasonable answers to these two questions, you moronic leftist ideologues ARE better off keeping your stupid mouths shut.

    • James In Footscray says:

      01:18pm | 25/07/11

      No carbon tax articles all week? I’m a bit worried for Mal now - how will he fill in his time?

    • RyaN says:

      12:31am | 26/07/11

      Don’t worry James, I am sure he will sing another song from the Labor propaganda song sheet. If that fails I am sure he will spew forth another piece of partisan “journalism” denigrating Tony Abbott as directed by his puppet masters.

    • Wilma J Craig says:

      01:34pm | 25/07/11

      I’m looking forward to not seeing, hearing, reading a single word about anything from any of our politicians!
      That was what was so great about ABC-TV’s Q&A the other night! Not a prattling pollie in sight or sound! What we got was one of the best Q&As; we have ever had.
      Tonight’s will be a humdinger with prattling pollies all over the joint trying to score points.
      Paradise Lost? Yes, it may well have been, with this announcement it is Paradise Regained!
      A whole week without prevaricating, posturing, piffling prats of policticans prattling on with their political platitudes which no-one listens to or believes! Sheer, unadulterated Ecstasy. No, dear, not the pill variety, rather the sort religious people get & if that is too deep for you think of it as a sort of Mental Orgasm which, like the pills, simply blows your mind away!

    • Martin says:

      01:34pm | 25/07/11

      Things aren’t going too well for the Cabon tax, so we’ll just shut discussion down and see if that helps. Hmmmmm Malcolm?  I see all the left wing bleaters out in force in unison with the Government propaganda campaign, doing their best to beat up support for the shambolic disaster of a policy. ABC in overdrive, Sky News crapping on about a small increase in support for the tax in the newest Newspoll ( which also still shows Labor being flushed). Labor staffers hitting the blogs and feedback forums at 5am posting Abbott hate mail etc. Go your hardest Left wing galahs, Labor’s done and dusted $12 million worth of propaganda won’t save you, Too many stuff ups, and too many lies.

    • SimonTigey says:

      03:53pm | 25/07/11

      The Punch have seriously damaged their reputation and credibility with some ridiculous censorship. I am seriously wondering if it’s even worth visiting this website anymore. Who knows what comments are censored, I have had 3 or 4 comments censored merely for questioning Tory Shepherd’s credibility, none have been published.

    • Against the Man says:

      04:04pm | 25/07/11

      Labor have already lost the next election. All the censorship can’t save them, Juliar and her cronies are clearly desperate and the media is giving in to their demands…...........but not for long.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      04:33pm | 25/07/11

      Simon, there are plenty of posts that go through questioning my credibility, attacking me personally, calling me names, picking on my hair style, accusing my of bias, incompetency, and so on. No worries.

      And I personally haven’t censored your comments, but I’ve just checked you out and looks like you’re posting similar comments under many different names, using fake email addresses, so let’s talk about credibility.

    • bobw says:

      04:42pm | 25/07/11

      LOL.  I’d call that a KO to Tory.

    • Steve says:

      04:50pm | 25/07/11

      I think your hair style really suits you Tory.

    • cpill says:

      05:29pm | 25/07/11

      poetry Tory, just beautiful

    • MarK says:

      05:47pm | 25/07/11

      “No worries. “

      That is not entirely true going on correspondence to me but whatever.

    • thedon says:

      01:39pm | 25/07/11

      shush all of you I think I just heard a pin drop, quiet in here.

      Spooky quiet, be on guard though, some criminal might just come barging in here and mention “you know what”, just when we have all agreed to shut them all up.

      Selfish lot them.

      Spell peoples names wrong and all, wonder what we should do with them if they persist.

      What ever you do dont mention the “carbon tax…ooops, oh nooo, what have I done, please I beg don’t send me to the ...oh thats right probably cant mention that either,

      Who do we approach for the required written permission to have an opinion, who will provide the media for experession in the future, we obviously can’t have any discussion that is not government sanctioned on here, without what amounts to threats.

      Shame on you all.

    • MarK says:

      02:05pm | 25/07/11

      Oh I replied to you earlier but was censored.

      /shrug.

      New paradigm and all I guess.

    • SimonTigey says:

      03:48pm | 25/07/11

      Yes MarK, I have had a few of my comments censored too, it seems the Gillard government have intimidated or threatened the Punch, disgraceful!!!!!!

    • Against the Man says:

      04:22pm | 25/07/11

      The Punch has lost credibility and become an ALP mouthpiece? Say it isn’t so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Looks this has back fired against The Punch smile

    • MarK says:

      04:24pm | 25/07/11

      No Simon.

      I am not suggesting the government had anything to do with the censorship here at all.

    • Knemon says:

      05:07pm | 25/07/11

      You guys need a tissue….I’m sure we’ve ‘all’ had comments on The Punch rejected - just some of us don’t cry conspiracy when it happens!

    • Scooter says:

      02:10pm | 25/07/11

      No, no Malcolm.  You got the heading wrong.
      “The Carbon Tax Will Screw You!”

    • Holly says:

      03:49pm | 25/07/11

      Perhaps one exception should be allowed for the delight of Punchers.  If Tony Abbott comes up with a, consistent,  comprehensive, fully costed carbon abatement scheme, then I think you should be allowed to break your promise lest you miss out on a scoop.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      05:57pm | 25/07/11

      Holly, you are, of course, right but the chances of Abbott or even Gillard coming up with a consistent, comprehensive, fully-costed C02 Abatement Scheme during this week are a Great Big Fat Zero! So we are safe for this week! For those whingeing about having their opinions censored, maybe you should remember that just because you get multiple of multiples of comments published does not entitle you to getting your comments published every time. There are others who also have something to say & Surprise! Surprise! the site monitor may just think their comments are more worthy than yours or mine!
      Leave Tory alone for, though we may not always agree with her, she does a bloody good job & those of us, yep, me included, who send in dozens of comments every day on every subject in The Punch generally get a very fair go.
      We really are very lucky to have The Punch for where else can people get to make their comments & be able to hide behind the anonymity of not using their real names? In case you wonder I always use mine - to my cost but at the same time my abusers are helping Australia Post to make a profit!

    • Chris L says:

      07:13pm | 25/07/11

      Good for you Robert. Putting the nation first that way!

      Don’t worry about the whingers. They always need to point to a conspiracy when they don’t get what they want.

    • Ben81 says:

      08:01pm | 25/07/11

      Why would we want a scheme like that for carbon?  I thought it was supposed to be all about CO2.

    • poa says:

      05:19pm | 25/07/11

      More brown collar journalism from the ALP’s pet pooch Mal.
      No more discussion on Gillard and Brown’s disastrous Carbon Tax.
      The subject is settled.
      Err..no its not Mal.
      Just cos its a collosal vote loser and typical ALP stuffup doesn’t mean that decent journalists won’t discuss it.
      Just you. Good boy…
      Pathetic.

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      05:22pm | 25/07/11

      I’m standing by, ready to join the crew. And I’ll row as hard as anybody, putting my full energy toward winning the race.

      But I’m stuffed if I’ll row alone while the rest; the biggest and strongest, sit at the stern eating cake and guzzling champers and no doubt laughing at the puny results from my effort.

      When China and India commit to carbon taxing then I’ll get behind carbon taxing here. But I know both Gillard and I will be long dead before that happens (if ever).

      Wake up Australia.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      05:36pm | 25/07/11

      “The Punch has lost credibility!!!”
      “Tory and Malcolm are biased!!!!”
      “It must be censorship!!!”
      Wah, Wah, Wah. Seems your average Liberal fanboy such as Erick, ATM, MarK and Simon of Many Names are a bunch of sooks. If they hate it so much, why don’t they just f**k off instead of whinging about it?

    • Chris L says:

      07:14pm | 25/07/11

      It’s not their fault. They’re crippled by over enlarged amygdalas.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:34pm | 25/07/11

      Shane do you own the Punch?
      I doubt you even own your own car. So till the time comes that you own the Punch and it becomes your property to kick me off it I suggest you stop your whinging and get back to ALP HQ for that $0.30 pay rise Juliar promised not to give you!

      And I was in the Army and trust me you’ll wah, wah, wah way before I do smile

    • sylvie says:

      07:58pm | 25/07/11

      @Chris L.  No.1 Debater.  This isn’t like you -  you’re usually so civilised.

      Don’t go joining the mob.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      09:10pm | 25/07/11

      @Against the Man
      1. Own my own car. Have a mortgage etc.
      2. Prefer to vote informal as both Labor and Liberal parties are crap
      3. Mate, I’m not the one whinging about censorship, bias, whatever- get back to writing your rants with silly, childish nicknames like “Juliar” and “Gilltard”, Liberal patsy
      4. Big deal. I was in the army too. Got to shoot stuff courtesy of Uncle Sam. So what.

    • Against the Man says:

      10:31pm | 25/07/11

      Shane if you don’t stand for anything you’ll fall for anything.

      And your childish me too in the army crap doesn’t impress me. Call me back when you’ve paid off your mortgage.

      And while you’re at it take a chill pill and cool down. If the Punch is so stressful for you than follow your own advise and stop whinging and just….......smile

    • Chris L says:

      06:27pm | 26/07/11

      Fair point Sylvie, and I’m sorry to disappoint such a civilised person. I’ll seek to be better.

    • Wilma J Craig says:

      05:43pm | 25/07/11

      Censorship? What censorship?
      All The Punch has done has said that they are instituting what amounts to a “Politician Free Week”. Can anyone really say that they are not sick to death of the constant “He said, She said”  to-ing & fro-ing, political point-scoring by, for the most part, the Leader of the ALP (No, not Paul Howes) & the Leader of the Coalition?
      One week of freedom/respite from them all out of 52 weeks is hardly censorship & it will probably get right up the noses of the politicians, their minders, spin doctors & the other parasites they all employ to spread their universal, all-encompassing lies.
      So, lets make the Last Week in July every year “Politician Free Week” - and if there happens to be a Federal, State or Territory Election on during that week so be it! The Politicians & their parties will hate it. How very, very nice!

    • Que says:

      09:11pm | 25/07/11

      WIlma this is a fight to the death of political ideals. There is no time to take a ‘breather’ from this. The foul smelling left are determined to destroy our great land - they love any chance to smother debate. This is pure survival.

    • Thommo says:

      11:17am | 26/07/11

      censorship is far far worse over at Crikey - for starters you can’t post a comment unless you are a paid up subscriber and then they delete anything that rips shreds in CAGW.

    • graham says:

      06:03pm | 25/07/11

      I promise to refrain from mentioning the carbon tax, (no, not the carbon dioxide tax, idiot!), for two weeks if Abbott promises not to say, “No!”, for two weeks. Yes, I know I’m a hard taskmaster, but it would be wonderful if he said “Yes” to my challenge. In fact it would be wonderful if he said,“Yes” to any challenge. We don’t need a bikini (1/2) clad surfie, who rides a bike and, er, well does stuff. We need an Opposition Leader with a larger vocab. than just ‘no’. Now there, Tony, is a real challenge. Have a go, ya mug!

    • RyaN says:

      12:40am | 26/07/11

      @graham: “We don’t need a bikini (1/2) clad surfie” So what do you have against surf lifesaving in Australia? You one of those lovely fellows that go down to the beach to attack our volunteers?
      If you hate surf lifesavers the stay away from the beach, hell preferably wear a dark blue skull cap so we know not to rescue you.

    • graham says:

      06:03pm | 25/07/11

      I promise to refrain from mentioning the carbon tax, (no, not the carbon dioxide tax, idiot!), for two weeks if Abbott promises not to say, “No!”, for two weeks. Yes, I know I’m a hard taskmaster, but it would be wonderful if he said “Yes” to my challenge. In fact it would be wonderful if he said,“Yes” to any challenge. We don’t need a bikini (1/2) clad surfie, who rides a bike and, er, well does stuff. We need an Opposition Leader with a larger vocab. than just ‘no’. Now there, Tony, is a real challenge. Have a go, ya mug!

    • Luke4 says:

      06:35pm | 25/07/11

      Yeh if Gillard can manage not to lie for 2 weeks.Gillard for the last 2 months up until today has been telling us -
      “all asylum seekers who arrive after the 7th May will be sent to a third country for processing, they will not be processed in Australia”
      Today Gillard -  “Aslyum seekers who have arrived since the 7th May will be processed in Australia”
      And you wonder why Abbott say’s NO to Gillard and her crazy lying policy announcements.

    • Soames says:

      06:04pm | 25/07/11

      Good one Malcolm, you’ve summarised in a precis, the events so far. To quote the ‘bible’ of political behaviour, Yes Minister, thus;
      Jim Hacker: Opposition’s about asking awkward questions.
      Sir Humphrey: And government is about not answering them.

    • Glenn says:

      06:07pm | 25/07/11

      I don’t know what all the fuss is about. It does not matter what the article is about, you can bet that there will be an all out political assult on either Ms Gillard, Mr Abbott or Bob Brown.

      Perhaps as a protest to the PUNCH having a “Carbon Free “Week” - those who comment should have a “Pollie Slaging Free Week”

      Sorry got to go ‘A pink Sqeeling creature “just flew past.

    • John the Zombie says:

      06:09pm | 25/07/11

      I dont think this week will be quiet on the carbon tax front as news now shows that Gillard herself did not believe in a carbon tax or ETS system and she basically had the same idea as Abbott is floating now for bipartisan support. Farr will have to come out to protect his precious Julia from this and try to make and arguement that it was some Murdoch press conspiracy or some right wing conservsative made up story.

    • Stephen says:

      06:35pm | 25/07/11

      Tony of Poorakistan says:01:25pm | 25/07/11

      Good call, that. 
      It beggars belief that people like Farr cannot understand that people do not trust this woman. Why is he constantly bleating that it doesn’t matter if she’s a lying bitch? - most people think it DOES matter.

      Your illiteracy doesnt stand in the way of your foul language.  If you read the article before foaming at the mouth you will see lack of trust & Gillard form a large part of the article.

    • John the Zombie says:

      06:50pm | 25/07/11

      Stephen I dont like Gillard and also I do believe she lied but lets try to stay away from language like that.

      Also I am wondering has enough noticed the pic has Abbott wearing a life saver hat instead of a helmet. Another dig at the idea of the buggies. Pretty low but hey you will nvr see the left pointing this out as they are blinded by any rude remarks made by Gillard. Look at the total about turn in regards to meow. When the liberals did it was ow how dare thet how dare they and when it was labor it was ow sorry it was a small mistake on his behlaf sorry.

    • AnthonyG says:

      06:35pm | 25/07/11

      Next

    • Joel B1 says:

      08:15pm | 25/07/11

      Gosh, what a bun fight.

      Good to see Farr wheeled out again to belittle Abbott and defend the indefensible.

      It must be really bloody awful to have on record so many pro-Gillard pieces and know that in just 3 years you’ll be the laughing stock of Australia and all even vaguely serious journalists.

      Been away for the weekend looking at caves last inhabited by Tasmanian Aborigines 12,000 years ago. Bloody cold but, 1 degree C max. Which is why the caves were abandoned, the climate changed, it go a whole load colder, the seas receded and they moved to the coast (but not Bris Vegas).

      So don’t let horrid facts get in your way The Punch.

      We all know the science is settled, it’s my evil lifestyle that changes the climate.

      Nuts.

    • Rubber Monkey says:

      11:55pm | 25/07/11

      You are all being very unfair to Mr Farr.  Its actually impossible to write a truthful, unbiased article about Tony Abbot without making him look like an idiot.  Its not Mal Farr that makes Tony Abbott look like an ignorant clown, its Tony Abbott that makes Tony Abbott look like an ignorant clown.

    • thedon says:

      09:31am | 26/07/11

      Good to see consistency Tory, its is only siily personal attackes or name calling when not directed at Tony Abbott.

      Yes it does make it so different and oh soo much smarter, funnier and far more entertaining when the word idiot or ignorant clown is directed at Tony Abbott, you are right.

      I get it now, so slow and silly of me.

      How many of my posts have been censored for nothing more?

      Freedom of speech is only for some eh.

    • Brad says:

      05:53pm | 26/07/11

      Mr Farr and Ms Gillard sitting in a tree… Why don’t you marry her Malcolm and be done with it?

    • Jay says:

      07:03am | 27/07/11

      The PM and Labor party lied to the electorate and consequently stole the Federal election. Now that former PM Rudd is entering hospital for surgery the Liberals should abandon the convention of pairing and call a vote of no confidence in this disgraceful govt.

    • Joe says:

      02:37pm | 27/07/11

      This is a balanced piece only if you first ignore Gillards promise that there would be no carbon tax under her government. How about calling for an election Malcolm and if your side wins then I’ll go along with it but at least demand that it be put to the people first.

    • Tucker says:

      05:29am | 23/08/11

      I’ve talked about def (diesel exhaust fluid) on here before to help us improve our emissions.  I really think if we could get the government to look into this for help with emissions that they would see so many other sources for coal.  This would reduce the carbon and therefore the carbon tax.  I’ve sent a few letters to provide information and have yet to get a response.

 

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