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Ridiculing school buildings? You need to get out more

Amanda Rishworth

by Amanda Rishworth

29 Mar 05:50am

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Filed under: Ber, Education, Politics, Schools

169 comments

The Liberals continue to peddle misinformation about the Building the Education Revolution building program. To hear them talk, schools are having slipshod buildings they don’t want foist upon them.

Luckily Kevin's not building them all himself

But out in the real world, state of the art school libraries, halls and gyms are opening all around the country. The most comprehensive school modernisation effort in the country’s history is taking place in bricks and mortar.

Since the introduction of the economic stimulus package, I have heard a lot about the benefits of the building program. But it wasn’t until I recently attended the opening of a new facility in Adelaide’s outer suburbs just what a difference these facilities will make.

It was a privilege to be at the official opening and blessing of the new multi-purpose hall at Antonio Catholic School. It was only after walking though this facility, and seeing it in action, that I truly appreciated just how important it is to the school.

The significance of the new facility was only reinforced when I heard the excited chatter from the children, parents and teachers of the school who had gathered together to have a look for themselves.

This new multi-purpose hall will mean that the kids at Antonio can play sport in all weather conditions, and the whole school community will be able to gather in one spot – students, parents and teachers.

The Liberal Opposition should not just take it from me that these buildings are popular: ask Michael who is a year seven student at the school. Michael told me that the new school facility will enable the year 6/7 play to be performed in front of an audience.

Or speak to Lance in year two. Lance said that he was pleased he would now be able to play more types of sport. The principal Mr Higgins was ecstatic that this vision that the school had had for so many years had finally been realised.

The Liberal party of course have spent the last 13 months criticising these facilities, suggesting that buildings such as the one at Antonio Catholic School represent a “low quality spend”.

I suggest that the Liberals should climb down from their ivory tower and talk to some of the parents, teacher and students about the importance of these facilities. Rather than rely solely on reports they read in newspapers, it might help Opposition MPs if they visit schools in their local area to see how these new buildings are taking shape in reality.

This school building initiative has been continually ridiculed by the Liberal party, yet the buildings are improving the learning environment for primary school kids right around Australia.

Once you talk to people in local areas benefiting from this program, even Liberal Parliamentarians might catch some of the enthusiasm and excitement in the community that has grown as the walls themselves go up.

Most commented

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336Animal experiments won't cure me from cancer
313Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking
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231Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...
231South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.

169 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • annie says:

      05:49am | 29/03/10

      oh boy is their more to come on this fiasco, we will find the rip offs of public money under this scheme will run into billions not millions. schools with 2 halls schools with 2 librarys schools with lean to buildings costing millions rural schools with 1 toilet and 20 pupils refused a toilet block but get a school hall instead and thats without a toilet. great way to fund infrastructure why wasnt this money used for hospitals or aged care or road black spots or new state of the art schools in areas of growth but no it has to go to librarys or halls only.

      Reply

    • Polywatcher says:

      07:29am | 29/03/10

      Yes Ms Rishworth but you’ve missed the point. 
      At what cost is the question?.
      Not the quality of the projects or the need.
      I repeat , at what cost????

    • persephone says:

      08:08am | 29/03/10

      Polywatcher

      The saving of many thousands of jobs, right across Australia.

      Improvement to the lives of schools and their communities; for many, the first time the community as a whole has an assembly point, a theatre space.

      Relieving schools of the burden of fundraising for long term projects - I know of schools which have been raising money to build a school hall for over forty years, with the realisation of that dream only receeding further with every year. Now they’ll be able to refocus that time and effort on more achievable projects.

      annie, there has been money for road black spots under this program.

      The others were more difficult to do for a range of reasons - hospitals do need to be fitted into long term demographic plans (no point building them in an area which doesn’t have the health needs it caters for), need to be staffed (you can add extra buildings to schools without having to find extra staff; you can’t add a ward to a hospital or build a new one without staffing) etc - much the same with aged care.

      Whereas even the smallest school - and its community - can use a hall or a library.

      As I’ve said before, school halls are used by the whole community.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      08:48am | 29/03/10

      persephone , .....and it does not matter at all that the taxpayer has been ripped off via Labor’s incompetence. ?
      Goddess of the Underworld , defending the indefensible.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      09:11am | 29/03/10

      Persephone is right, this scheme is more about jobs than education, hence the focus on mainly useless buildings rather than state-of-the-art teaching facilities.

      Having said that, it’s important to note that Gillard’s insistence on the use of a ‘preferred builder’ has ensured that those jobs are mainly union members’ jobs rather than small, non-union tradies.

      Surprise!

    • Philip Crowley says:

      09:26am | 29/03/10

      Persephone, you ramble on about supposed benefits but totally avoid Polywatcher’s question. At what cost? It doesn’t matter who uses it if it costs four times the pre-BER cost, does it Persephone?

    • Perseus says:

      10:42am | 29/03/10

      @persephone - In full flight! 

      In this case the end doesn’t justify the means especially when the means used by KRudd and the ALP clearly was to smooth the feathers of the building and construction unions.

    • Tom says:

      10:44am | 29/03/10

      Ms Wishworth - you may be trying to wish away the BER schools fiasco and in doing so you make a very valid point - Private schools, such as the one you mentioned have been able to get value for taxpayers money, because they have been able to manage the construction themselves.

      It is in the public school where the rorts are taking place - in many cases in NSW over 30 percent of the cost of the buildings in going into management fees.

      So, it is extremely instructive that Ms Wishworth is stating how wonderful the buildings are a private school - she probably is too embarrassed to sight any public schools because, through no fault of the local school community they building program has been plagued by mismanagement and rip offs.

      To simply try and blame the Liberals and Nationals for this is ridiculous - the Australian newspaper has run page after page of examples around the country of massive rips offs and it is the parents who are exposing it - so much at one NSW country school the parents took it upon themselves to form a picket line and halt work.

      Ms Wishworth should be apologsing to every Australian taxpayer for the incompetent way in which the program has been run.

    • persephone says:

      10:53am | 29/03/10

      Steve - state of the art teaching facilities are being delivered, too.

      For example, our local school is getting a Language Centre, which apparently will come with all the bells and whistles.

      However, the context of this program is important. Federal Governments can’t interfere lightly with the responsibilities of the States and the constitution limits the feds to providing ‘specialist’ buildings. It does not allow them to provide generalist classrooms as such, maintenance of existing buildings or new schools.

      Given that this program had to be delivered quickly to do one part of its job (protecting jobs from the GFC) it couldn’t afford to be tied down in legal arguments. Therefore it could only look at a limited number of building options.

      I think to describe these buildings as ‘useless’ is a bit insulting to the parents, teachers and pupils who have, in very many cases, waited for years for something like this - as I’ve said before, I personally know of schools which have been after school halls for decades, and lack of these facilities haver real impacts on the students of the schools concerned.

      Philip Crowley, no, I’m not ignoring it. It’s a question I’ve already dealt with a couple of times, but I really don’t like boring the pants off people by posting the same information over and over, so (if you’re read this before) tune out:

      School halls are not ‘normal’ buildings. They are, firstly, built to last - funds for school buildings are few and far between, so they’re built like brick shithouses to ensure that they’re there forever.

      Secondly, all school halls I know of are multipurpose. That means, for example, a floor surface which can be used for school dances, basketball games, as well as seating hundreds. Most of our existing school halls have beautiful hardwood floors, which weren’t cheap fifty years ago but are still performing well. So, to start with, the kind of footings put down need to be extra strong, and so do the bearings and the floor itself.

      Ditto the walls. Have you seen kids play indoor soccer? They bounce off the sides. Some schools I know have climbing frames on the walls, too. So they can’t be jerry built, lathe and plaster affairs.

      Thirdly, school halls often serve as the local emergency centre. This would be pointless if they were shabbily built.

      These factors all means it’s pointless looking at an ordinary building and then extrapolating out from there that the school hall is too expensive.

    • Rich says:

      12:12pm | 29/03/10

      “It was only after walking though this facility, and seeing it in action, that I truly appreciated just how important it is to the school.”

      I’m shocked that a member of the Government didn’t realise that facilities are important to schools until they saw them in action. Perhaps members of the Government need to get out more often.

      In a typical case of playing the man not the ball, this article attempts to cast any opposition of waste as opposition of well resourced schools.

      Thankfully, it’s not too hard to see through that logic.

      Yes, building schools new facilities is a great thing to do, but not at any price.

    • Agamemnon says:

      01:39pm | 29/03/10

      Poorly built, un-needed buildings, rorted by dodgy builders.  Welcome to Krudd’s ‘Education Revolution’!

      The waste is obscene.

      Krudd’s day of reckoning with the Gods is almost upon us thankfully.

    • matt says:

      08:40pm | 29/03/10

      Yeah the Liberals built heaps of new school buildings.

      Much needed ones, like that new rifle range at Kings.

      Once again, get over it - you lost, Kevin won.

    • Farticus says:

      10:08pm | 29/03/10

      Thanks persephone for the short essay on what school halls are used for.  How does that explain why they now cost just about twice as much to build per square metre as they did a just a few years ago, and things like a portable building or outdoor shade areas costing nearly a million dollars - 3 times more than building a few bricks and mortar residential houses, and in the case of portable buildings about 5 or 6 times more than I could pay for one exactly the same myself if I decided to purchase one tomorrow?  Doesn’t the massive discrepancy between prices for buildings funded by the “Education Revolution” and any other building anywhere, schools or not, concern you?  How the hell can you spin that and tell me it’s an acceptable situation?

    • Steve woy woy says:

      11:11pm | 29/03/10

      As always scant on facts and plenty of sensational drivel from the party line. Whenever you place anything of fact in front of these people they retreat into a flurry of repetitive sound bites, tired old rhetoric and irrelevant misdirection. The reason for this is as simple as these gullible dupes: It is impossible to defend any position arrived at through solely listening to political rantings of manipulative and dictatorial bullies who have a vested interest in the blind obedience of their followers. In order to effectively defend a position it is necessary to research not only the news reports but also other sources such as books, various other media and through discussion with people old enough and wise enough to be able to remember what actually occurred in the past.

      Quote of FACT:

      The 1978 cabinet papers reveal the outcome of inertia

      January 01, 2009
      Article from:  The Australian


      IF Kevin Rudd wants an example of how not to govern Australia during an economic downturn, he need only read the records of the Fraser government in 1978, released today by the National Archives.

      Mr Howard, the then treasurer, proposed more taxes and less spending. As Treasury papers released in 2007 reveal, Mr Howard wanted to sell up to 13 government businesses in one year to raise revenue, despite the obvious need for more significant reforms to grow government income by expanding the economy. But what Mr Fraser was prepared to do was never going to work - his government ran deficits and passed on an economy in terrible shape to Bob Hawke in 1983.
      Yes at what cost we may ask!!!!

    • Jane says:

      12:35pm | 30/03/10

      ‘more about jobs’ ??
      pfft - the last deceitful fallback of the ‘failure to justify them’ crowd - otherwise known as ALP apologists from blogstaff central.

      The only ‘jobs’ are jobs for union maaaaates in the cfmeu. The country folk are already cognisent of the harsh reality that local firms missed out on tenders to metropolitan ‘chosen’ ring ins.
      Anyone try to get a builder for a REAL job?..ergo as opposed to an artificially manufactured govt BS one….it’s impossible.
      With the housing shortage the way it is construction jobs for the ‘chosen ones’ weren’t the ones to be ‘saved’.

      I LOVE the school halls gig. <insert sarcasm>

      In total contrast to the original motivation from Labor - that we will all vote in them and therefore be overwhelmingly reminded of how ‘great’ Labor was to build them ...they will stand as vast monuments to incompetence….monuments to utter and complete squander and wastage.
      They will be ‘in your face’ reminded that the (very often uneccessary) cookie cutter building that they stand in to vote was either failed to be provided by the State Labor govt….or was not actually needed…or could have been built at a cost the third of what it actually was.

      Yes - Monoliths of FAILURE…and concrete reminders of how much and for how long we will have to pay back the uneccessary BORROWED monies to erect such gratuitous travesties…..and the interest that will incur.
      That the very children using such buildings will be working to pay them off some 10 years into their own working lives.

      Maybe that could be a whole new school ‘banner’ dressing exercise for the Coalition come election day. wink

      ‘Monoliths of Shame’ or ‘Monoliths of Failure’....hmm..? Both so apt.

      Either way - love it. smile

    • Martin says:

      02:50pm | 13/06/10

      Amanda you should know better and keep an unbiased view when it comes to such a big issue like this. You will learn from it as you have only been in the parliament less than 3 years and we will all be better as a result.

    • Anthony says:

      06:12am | 29/03/10

      To see Gillard say that waste is acceptable is stupid. Bairsdale hosipital is in desperate need of outpatient consulting rooms. There are no disabled toilets in their current ones. The current facility is fifty years old. Gillards 1 billion dollar bump in the road could pay for 500 consulting rooms in rural australia. That is what we object to.

      Reply

    • Anthony says:

      06:18am | 29/03/10

      To see Gillard say that waste is acceptable is stupid. Bairnsdale hosipital is in desperate need of outpatient consulting rooms. There are no disabled toilets in their current ones. The current facility is fifty years old. Gillards 1 billion dollar bump in the road could pay for 500 consulting rooms in rural australia. That is what we object to.

      Reply

    • Henry T says:

      06:33am | 29/03/10

      I am not really interested in the do do that dribbles out of Liberal mouths, but I would like to hear from some of the school teachers and principles, I have already talked to a few parents from my local school and they are happy. I think any infrastructure is better than what we had under The Liberal Government.

      Reply

    • annie says:

      07:39am | 29/03/10

      henry state infrastructure under normal circumstances is a state responsibility, thats why schools hospitals and roads are in such a mess 10 years of labor state governments filled with shop stewards with nil management or business skills.

    • Trent says:

      08:25am | 29/03/10

      Let’s hope that ‘infrastructure,’ which is supposedly better than under the Liberal govt, keeps your children happy while they are still trying to pay off the debt in 40 years.
      Joyce is right, another term of krudd and we might as well be in Greece.
      Maybe you should talk to some of these ‘principals’ (note the spelling) and get a better idea of the scope of the mess. 
      How a school hall for a regional college of 15 students is good infrastructure i will never know.
      Clearly you are a Labor voter with the same financial acumen of those you have put in government.
      Please wake up and smell the coffee (which if it was tendered & organised by the labour govt would probably cost you $35- and be cold.)

    • T.Chong says:

      08:30am | 29/03/10

      annie -“shop stewards” in hospitals. Other than for the usually conservative leaning doctors with their closed shop mentality, what problems does the Nurses Unions or cleaners / wards person unions etc have caused for the hospital systems?  Maybe those nurses shouldnt campaign to be able to deliver a safe workload, so that , God forbid, anything happen to you, youd get the treatment you require.

    • Mark says:

      08:32am | 29/03/10

      Henry T says:

      07:33am | 29/03/10

      I am not really interested in the do do that dribbles out of Liberal mouths

      Yes we get it T. Nopthing like not having a debate or discourse about isses in a democracy is there?

      Love your work.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      09:32am | 29/03/10

      Correct Henry. This is not only long overdue infrastructure but it also a huge vote winner for the Labor party. Not just the parent and teachers singing their praises but also the tradies and their suppliers, the small, medium and large businesses. It’s a win, win, win. Life must be so shallow for all these Liberal party hacks whose only concern in life is the dollar.

    • annie says:

      09:57am | 29/03/10

      mr chong ? labor state governments are filled with ex union officals with no business expertise at all. Ergo in Queensland the last 3 major dams built in SEQ were started by joe petersen 30 years ago despite a population growth in SEQ of 2000 a month.

    • T.Chong says:

      11:26am | 29/03/10

      Annie:No doubt about dams etc.. I was focused on yur claim about hospitals. So what do you wish to claim about Nurses Associations, or Health Services employees.?
      What s wrong with seeking safe workloads to ensure patient care is optimal?

    • James1 says:

      12:43pm | 29/03/10

      annie, to us parents it matters not who neglected what, and when.  From my own parental perspective, my daughter’s school is getting a new library, and will no longer have to use a converted classroom for a library.  To the parents with children at this school, that is good.  No amount of politics can detract from how good that is.

    • Ben says:

      02:05pm | 29/03/10

      James1 - “No amount of politics can detract from how good that is” you have to be bloody joking.  Holding the government to account for the blatant rorting and ripoffs going on can’t be brushed aside as “politics”, and if you think some buildings in schools are something so great that they can be justified at any price you’re nothing more than an apologist..

    • acker says:

      06:54am | 29/03/10

      The program is OK but the execution is terrible, there needs to be more people with commercial acumen and experience in the public service to handle schemes like this, perhaps older Australians. KISS principal suggests, states should never handled the money.

      KISS principal = Keep It Simple Stupid

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      11:00am | 29/03/10

      `the execution is terrible` .... the picture says it all Bob the builder is in charge!

    • Luke says:

      06:55am | 29/03/10

      The problem the Libs keep pointing out is the mismangement of this programme and the absolute waste of tax payers money. What are they suposed to do? say nothing and not hold them accountable? Millions has turned into billions, don’t you get it? It’s not about the building of the infrastructure it’s the mismangement of the programme.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      08:19am | 29/03/10

      Evidence, Luke?

      The amount of money allocated to each project is very easily found by going to the Nation Building site, so it shouldn’t take you long to find examples.

      Anyone can just say that a project has cost more than it should have, or than was expected - provide some evidence.

    • im says:

      10:00am | 29/03/10

      The Government has refused to itemise costs per school on its web site. whats was built yes but what it cost no. but we will find out and the overspends will run into billions not millions.

    • persephone says:

      11:14am | 29/03/10

      Well, this site tells you how much money was allocated by the Feds to each project:

      http://www.economicstimulusplan.gov.au/mycommunity/pages/default.aspx

      Mark

      try googling for yourself, honestly, it’s not that hard. Lots of schools boasting about their new facilities; I found many examples of communtities looking forward to them opening, with a martial arts club informing their members that they’ll move their training into the school hall once it’s completed; I also found a nice photo of a new school hall decked out for the local deb ball.

      It’s really stupid to try and pretend that communities won’t welcome, use and benefit from these halls. It’s legitimate to question expenditure, yes, but you also need to bear in mind the uses these buildings are put to and thus the higher standards they need to meet.

    • Grumbles says:

      01:28pm | 29/03/10

      persephone, no one is questioning the school halls, they are a useful building and a tangible asset. We are questioning the billions of wasted dollars, for which there are many reports. A 300k School hall is a nice asset, but if it costs 900k to build, no amount of fillibusting about how nice it is and how happy the parents and students are is going to make it worth it. This is tax payer money and we demand better value for our money. If you are a tax paying Aussie you should care as well.

    • Mark says:

      01:32pm | 29/03/10

      Yep cool site bro. List all the schools and how much each got for the listed project.

      Shame it doesn’t show if the project was approved or wanted by the school instead of other infrastructure. Shame it doesn’t show competitive tender processes.

      In other words you have given me a database.

      Cool.

      Of course they will be used. The cost benefit is the key. The waste is the key. Mismanagement is again the issue.

      No-one is worried about the individual amounts spent. Lol you can be silly. If something is provided at a greater cost than could have otherwise been the case we have a problem. There is ample evidence of this. Ergo - call Houston and tell them.

      I will give you some time to catch up with us. Take as much as you need.

      Shiny things apparently given away for no cost have been the source of wonderment for many people over the ages. Still doesn’t make em good value.

    • Greypower says:

      06:58am | 29/03/10

      Are we not to take any notice of the parents when they give us actual figures of shonky stuff - Oh Com’on Amanda - give us a break!

      Reply

    • stevie parker says:

      07:29am | 29/03/10

      Amanda - you name one school in our electorate - and how nice that it literally two minutes walk from the sanctuary of your office. I can name 3 other schools in the southern suburbs who are far from happy with the amount paid for the work, the inflexible nature of the Government in relation to the purpose of the building and the quality of the work. Could I actually suggest that you not only visit the convenient Catholic Antonio school but also visit the rest of the schools in the area to obtain a truer picture. What I am suggesting Ms Rishworth is that it is you who needs to get out a little more!

      Reply

    • stevie says:

      09:38am | 29/03/10

      Actually - I’m sorry for writing that it is two minutes walk - I actually went past there this morning on my way to work - it would actually be 15 seconds walk from your electoral office to the gate of the school. You definately need to expand on your horizons!!!

    • the petulant magpie says:

      11:11am | 29/03/10

      The students , parents and teachers at Aberfoyle Park are happy with their new structures, my daughter can’t wait to move in to her new classroom.
      I haven’t heard too many parents saying, ‘Don’t spend money on our school, our kids are just fine in their transportable classrooms”

    • Peeved says:

      12:13pm | 29/03/10

      And not only a 15 second walk the school is a “private” school.  Why should our taxpayers money go to the private schools if my children cannot attend without paying $5 - 10 grand a year?  Let them pay for their own bloody hall

    • Coxy says:

      01:26pm | 29/03/10

      Peeved, what a ridiculous thing to say. Parents of students attending private schools pay taxes as well.

    • Ben says:

      08:58pm | 29/03/10

      “the petulant magpie”, why is it so hard for some to understand that while funding buildings in schools is fine, allowing blatant rorting to happen where we have so many situations of astronomically high prices for buildings that would have cost one third of the price before this silly season is most certainly not ok?

    • Adam Diver says:

      07:35am | 29/03/10

      The people denouncing the schools program are a joke. It is the most important aspect of the education revolution and will transform the lives of students. For christ sake even Year 7 student Micheal and year 2 student (whos like 7 or 8) said that it was good.

      Glad to know labor ploicy is based upon the whims of children. And to build a hall for a catholic school? Seriously doesn’t the vatican have enough money (and I went to a catholic school probably why I detest them).

      Reply

    • Dingo says:

      09:05am | 29/03/10

      Oh good, if a 7 year old thinks its good then it must be.  That’s about the level of thinking required to overlook the obvious disaster that this program has become.

    • iansand says:

      07:55am | 29/03/10

      This piece highlights how the Opposition strategy is high risk.  While there may have been waste and mismanagement, and while that should be highlighted and decried, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of parents who can see new facilities at their children’s schools.  Facilities that were not there 2 years ago, and which may have been needed for decades.

      Reply

    • imorpeth says:

      09:56am | 29/03/10

      yes ian million dollars structures of a roof and 1 wall! wheres the risk in that mate

    • iansand says:

      10:53am | 29/03/10

      The risk is in being seen to be carping over a programme that has delivered benefits.

      The programme should have been done better.  It should have been done with more oversight.  It should have been done in a whole lot of different ways.  But the big sell is that it was done.

    • Trent says:

      07:58am | 29/03/10

      “The opposition keep peddling lies” - They must have bought off all the media outlets then, considering the number of stories of waste…

      I’m the last one to consider Today Tonight a good example of fine journalism, however maybe you should watch their investigation from last into the education revolution disaster and THEN see who is the one trying to peddle lies.

      Stick with Pink batts Amanda, clearly this govt cant even get one thing right at any time let alone many.

      While you’re at it, keep working on bringing Australia into the company of Iran & China, by the time we get to Krudd2013 I probably won’t even be allowed to post this comment because of an ever-expanding govt filter…

      Wouldn’t want freedom of expression to interfere with peddling govt lies and misinformation…
      Tony10 is the only hope for us all…and i can’t believe I’m saying that.

      Reply

    • Paddy says:

      08:08am | 29/03/10

      Miss Rishworth, or perhaps Tishworth, forgot to mention she is an elected ALP member from South Australia. I wondered and then a net search identified this. I failed to see any vested interest or disclosure statement in the article. Honesty from Labor, don’t we wish?
      Perhaps we need to have a list of projects on a postcode basis and identify each project, the successful tenderer and the price. Update this for variations and extras. Identify administration costs.
      Our local schools have done very well from this programme, Macklin is the local member. I just hope many who missed out did not miss out because of the Govt being unreasonably overcharged.

      Reply
    • Tory Maguire

      Tory Maguire says:

      08:14am | 29/03/10

      Paddy, biographical details of all Punch contributors are found both at the bottom of the home page, and with a single click on their name or photograph.

    • watty says:

      10:42am | 29/03/10

      Can’t miss her Paddy.

      She is the strategically placed “noddy doll” sitting just behind and to Rudd’s left during Question Time.

      Now nodding and writing at the same time…that is an art.

    • James of Bodentown says:

      01:34pm | 30/03/10

      Paddy - no schools missed out. The BER stimulus has been rolled out to every school in Australia.

    • Me says:

      08:09am | 29/03/10

      Nice try Amanda - I’m not buying it. Taxpayers (i.e. us stupid mugs) expect value for money, and when we don’t get it, the government should be held to account. It’s all very well and good for you to pretend to be the bastions of public education, throwing around cash like candy for pro forma school halls and libraries, but your execution and management of the program is a disgrace. Add to that the problem of corruption and this is well and truly a right royal stuff-up!

      Reply

    • Super D says:

      08:04am | 29/03/10

      The orwelliianly named “Building the Education Revolution” will result in schools getting facilities they otherwise would not have.  From the ALP this is the end of the argument - no “buts” will be considered.  No “but we’re paying twice the price” or “but the school really needed a sceince lab and not a canteen” no “but we will be paying this off for 20 years and the money could have been better spent elsewhere”.  All of which are very reasonable criticisms.  From the government perspective the fact that something is now where it wasn’t before results in an apparently self evident policy success.  We can but hope that the standard of workmanship is better than that found in the “Building the insulation revolution” program. 

      Given that a single school hall collapse will change the government and result in another decade in thh wilderness for the ALP in all likelihood thh buildings are significantly over-engineered - no doubt explaining some of the cost overruns.

      Reply

    • Chris says:

      08:14am | 29/03/10

      Amanda,

      Apart from sounding like a bigger cheer squad than the Dallas Cowboys, your zealous defence of the scheme by using little children’s testimonials as Human Shields is hilarious.
      As some of those who have contributed so far have indicated, the scheme in principle was good but its management was dreadful. The basis of pumping oney into one portion of the supply chain (tradies) whilst shutting out the rest and then arguing that is prevented the economy from going into recession. What about engineering and architecture firms. If they had been included in many of the consultation for the schools, then they could have a list of works on the books for several years out. They could then use that guarantee (especially government money guarantees) to approach banks for finance to expand. For every architect that employed for example, that is 2-3 support staff. Each one of them knows that they have employment for a period of time and can then contribute to the economy through their own purchases. Projects could be better managed (reducing the rorts) and schools get what they actually seek. the tradies still get the work.
      As a father of 3 school age children in your home town, please do not be so arrogant as to tell me I need to get out more if I disagree with Dear Leader’s grand designs. You have not been around the traps long enough to lecture people just yet.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      08:24am | 29/03/10

      I know local architectural firms who are over the moon about the schools scheme. They’ve never had so much work.

      And yes, that means that they’re employing more people and thus spreading money around the community.

    • Mark says:

      08:35am | 29/03/10

      Name them peresphone. I want to contact to check your claim. I call shenanigans on your claim.

      Oh and there better be more than 1, you know firms - plural. Let us see how many staff these great employers in the community have added. Let us account for the cost of all the jobs.

      Anytime today is fine.

    • T.Chong says:

      09:57am | 29/03/10

      Mark , can we also go university referencing with you, and demand names etc any time you make a statement ?

    • forrest says:

      10:00am | 29/03/10

      ye great miss p its only tax payers money after all. they built a new hall at a local school nearby and its very nice but threequarters of the school are demountables with no airconditioning freezing in winter and too hot in summer. money well spent ?

    • Mark says:

      10:28am | 29/03/10

      Sure T any time.

      Begin when ready. You silly sausage, you didn’t need my permission but there it is.

    • Mark says:

      10:37am | 29/03/10

      Still waiting.

      Oh you guys do realise how serious the shenanigans charge is? I quote you from the Urban Dictionary. It is on the web - check it out T as my source.

      “3.    shenanigans

      An official declaration made by patrons of an establishment who feel they have been cheated. Once a charge of shenanigans has been accepted by an authority figure, said patrons are free to assault the owners of said establishment with brooms.

      I call on the mods to declare my call of shenanigans as accepted.

    • Alison says:

      10:52am | 29/03/10

      @peeperphone

      If you dont work for the labor party do you work for the ABC?

      Not sure which architectural firms you are talking about, but all of the public schools in NSW had to use pre-fab buildings which didn’t require any architectural firms at all - the only choice the school communities had was a choice of four colours!

    • persephone says:

      11:21am | 29/03/10

      Mark & Alison

      Again, you can both google, do it.

      You’ll find numerous references to architects in QLD and Victoria (don’t know about the other states) being involved in the design and delivery of these projects.

      I don’t know how I can prove personal talks with professionals who don’t advertise their work on line - but I had personal input into the architect’s design for our new school buildings, when they were put out for parent comments, and a close friend of mine runs a major architectural firm for a regional city and says he’s never been busier, he is designing buildings for something like thirty local schools.

      Again, the constitution means it’s the State’s responsibility to deliver the programs, so I would expect that some States do it differently to others. Not sure why one state using architects and another not is anyone else’s fault than the state involved.

    • Holden Back says:

      11:37am | 29/03/10

      Rumour and hearsay as usual.  Architects have been busy, even in the regions, as sub-contractors to the metropolitan consultants most of the State Education Departments have appointed.  The work has mainlt been assessment of sites for template buildings and portables and the design of approved projects and upgrades.  Similarly the preferred head contractors appointed to simplify the administration ofthe projects from the departmental point of view have sub-contracted many regional schools to smaller local builders.  There’s a fair fee at each level for the administration, which is frustrating some schools who were given the ‘great big new capital grant’ figure, but who didn’t see that coming?

    • Mark says:

      11:56am | 29/03/10

      Lol.

      So you can’t give them.

      Stop making stuff up then.

      Please, just stop. It is really quite silly.Yyou have personal talks with them so give me their names and business phone numbers. It is easy. I am sure the mods will not mind. We can excuse gratuitous advertising this once.

      Come on these are personal friends. You will be doing them a favour.

      Shenanigans….where did I out my broom?

      Nice one Alison, but we know peresphone won’t let things as tricky as facts get in the way of a good lie lololololololol.

    • Mr Subramanian says:

      12:28pm | 29/03/10

      *sigh* Being a skeptic is so easy: you claim “shenanigans” and then simply demand that the other person produce documentation for every single thing and decry any effort to do so as insufficient.

      Don’t waste your time persephone, even if you gave him said details, he wouldn’t believe you. And you’ve done enough that the more reasonable folks hereabouts will be inclined to accept your word over his - thanks!

    • Mark says:

      03:06pm | 29/03/10

      Hey!! I am Mark not you pal. Back off or I will have you for copyright.

      Oh wait can’t copyright your own name…dammit.

      Anyway let us quickly look at your post. Well thought out. Constructive. Has links. Paints you in a good light with the witty name at the top (you devil you).

      i could take you to task for linking one part time position (short term contract) caused by the scheme - booyah a few billion and we get a part timer a position - but let us leave that. Nice list of architectural jobs. Pick any profession the line starts over thee—————>it is similar. So I am sort of at a loss to your point but hey you googled dude!!

      Then we get to the problem.

      “Your opinions are no more valid or invalid then peresphones.” Your words.

      So what you are saying is in a political debate of which I take the piss constantly out of peresphones ideology we have differing views that when taken in balance are sort of short in the unpartisan department.

      Well, err, gratz I guess? You want to win an internetz or something?

      I just love how easy it is to get you frothing at the mouth and digging up research and google links though. Maybe you haven’t seen my previous laughs about google wars and the such so it went over your head.

      I love this stuff.

      And ooooooohhhhhh scary monsters. You found the Liberals pork barrelled, well you didn’t find you just made the statement to get a crack in I guess. So the Liberals are not perfect. Didn’t say they were. Never. Not once.

      But I ain’t talking about them am I.

      Basic score 3/10 for googling stuff. No internetz for you though.

      PS stop trying to make me and persphone make sense for crying out load. This is politics. Reality, sense and truth have no place here. Balanced reporting hahahahahaha, where do you get that son. I ain’t seen that since that since Adam was a boy. Me oh my balanced reporting…..

    • Lucie says:

      03:41pm | 29/03/10

      Yeh like the insulation stimulation thingy, produced thousands of jobs and made Rudds employment figures look good, even if it was way over budget, burned down a few houses and cost 4 people their lives. The main thing is good employment figures and the stimulas money was pushed out the door. Good on you Rudd.

    • SAO says:

      08:15am | 29/03/10

      Oh Amanda!  It’s not like this information isn’t freely accessible!  What about the school that wanted a new toilet block to replace the current asbestos riddled one but got several new classrooms instead, new classrooms they had quoted at half the current project cost just this time last year.  We all know the government is getting kickbacks, that’s why we have to buy Office Max stationery and Sebel furniture and use the idiot local phone guy who turns up 3 weeks after you call him, despite them all being poor products and entirely too expensive.  Now, it’s finally going to bite you on the arse.  Enjoy.

      Reply

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      08:16am | 29/03/10

      Ms Rushworth, please answer a few questions for me;

      In the type G multipurpose hall why does the crossbracing for the structural steel run through a doorway rendering it unusuable.

      In the type L multipurpose hall why does the crossbracing for the structural steel run through the windows?

      In Melbournes east why did $29000 worth of decking get invoiced at $65000 and why was this invoice accepted and paid?

      In Melbournes South why did a 30 meter retaining wall cost $120000?

      The BER is a farce of monumental proportions, poorly conceived, ineptly administered, the designs are lousy and the scopes of work must have been written by a 10 year old.

      Reply

    • WHR says:

      08:19am | 29/03/10

      Our tax dollars are lining the pockets of companies which put forward uncompetitive quotes, ridiculously above market value. The Government paid no notice to these uncompetitive quotes, obviously Rudd treats Australian tax dollars with contempt. It is not his money, why should he be careful and prudent with it?

      This seems to be the hallmark of the Rudd Government. Poor implementation of services, cost blowouts and lax safety standards which have killed people.

      Reply

    • Charles says:

      08:17am | 29/03/10

      I have yet to see a building completed under the auspices of the BER that is yet to find an acceptable standard of quality or cost, unless it was done within the private school system.

      The good thing about this is that it is a long slow burner that actually might go on for years yet.  The public should bring the federal ALP to account for this incredible waste, and for the fact that state ALP governments have allowed infrastructure in this country to fall to such a degree.  I also suspect that a fair amount of the BER has been creamed off by various state governments as well.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      11:26am | 29/03/10

      Oh, what, Charles, and you’re out there, day after day, visiting these projects on the ground?

      If so, please specify how many of these buildings you have seen, what problems you had with their quality and cost and on what basis you are qualified to make these judgements.

      I expect that you have inspected schools across all States, and have made your assessment after viewing a representative sample across all educational sectors.

      Otherwise your statement might be seen just a tiny bit grandiose.

      And yes, I look forward to many years - decades, in fact - of local communities using these facilities.

    • Jane says:

      03:58pm | 30/03/10

      Gee Persie…I don’t know…maybe if you google ( you’re good at that)
      ‘School Hall ripoffs’....you’ll see a veritable plethora of examples right there…that others have been ‘on the ground’ at to report thus.

      Here’s a few to get you started.

      http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/snap-survey-theres-waste-and-rip-offs-in-school-buildings/story-e6freuy9-1225839770618

      “Concerns include inferior work, waste and worries schools were being ripped off.

      A snap survey of 200 schools statewide shows 117 believe the construction projects are not providing value for money or have been delayed, seriously disrupting classes and students’ activities.”

      http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/schools-slam-state-funding-ripoff-20090523-bizb.html

      “PRIMARY school principals have accused the Brumby Government of siphoning millions of dollars from the Commonwealth’s education stimulus package earmarked to revamp Victorian schools.

      They also say that the limited range of building options on offer from the Victorian Education Department — which is administering the scheme in state schools — means they must choose from projects they may not need while their building priorities remain unfunded.”

      Better get a coffee..it may take a while to get through.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      08:20am | 29/03/10

      Amanda , who are you trying to fool , us or yourself. ?  The scheme has turned into a blatant ripoff of taxpayer’s money. As always , Labor’s mismanagement has resulted in astronomical cost overruns with the foil insulation fiasco and the schools building programme heist.
      The electorate is well aware of what has happened Amanda , and Labor will pay at the next ballot.

      Reply

    • Joe says:

      08:27am | 29/03/10

      Not concerned about Rudd Labor spending our billions on pointless school halls at ripoff prices? You need to get out more.

      Reply

    • Diamantina Dick says:

      08:29am | 29/03/10

      Here’s the distortion Amanda, Julia Gillard insists that the number of problem projects represents a very small percentage of the planned projects. The fact is they represent a very high percentage of those actually underway! Labor cannot be trusted with money or management, only spin.

      Reply

    • Mazzy says:

      08:24am | 29/03/10

      What a disgrace the government is spending money on school buildings in all electorates for public and private schools. No favoritism, democracy in peril.

      Reply

    • Joe says:

      08:33am | 29/03/10

      The other worry is that Rudd Labor can’t even give away fluffy stuff for your roof, or give schools the infrastructure they need without getting ripped off and dangering lives. And now there is talk of a federal take over health. Rudd Labor are proving this will be a desaster as they can’t manage a thing.

      Reply

    • acker says:

      08:56am | 29/03/10

      @Joe honestly as bad as the Federal stuff up’s and mismanagement of schemes has been, it would hardly put a dint in the amount of money NSW and Queensland are spilling on health before anything gets anywhere near a patient.

    • Polywatcher says:

      09:54am | 29/03/10

      And as KRudd says, “guess what”?  Guess what indeed, they are all Labor Governments.  What else would you expect.

    • BTS says:

      08:37am | 29/03/10

      ‘This school building initiative has been continually ridiculed by the Liberal party, yet the buildings are improving the learning environment for primary school kids right around Australia.’

      ...and apparently at only four times the expense of normal buildings, wonder why this wasn’t mentioned?

      Reply

    • Ryan says:

      08:44am | 29/03/10

      Miss Rishworth, are you seriously that ignorant, please be so kind as to point us in the direction of ANY statement that has been against the school buildings.
      I think you will find that the reason people are up in arms is because of the ridiculous rort that is going on between the government and the big businesses that are the preferred tenders is in fact TAKING AWAY what additional buildings a school could have had for the SAME amount of money.
      This post of yours is clutching at straws and in my opinion removes ANY credibility you might have had, even more offensive is that you have such a low opinion of the average voter that you think we are stupid enough to swallow that amount of BS.

      Reply

    • Ron Roberts says:

      08:53am | 29/03/10

      This is a Punch commentary to cut out and keep, because you can guarantee that it will come back to haunt ms Rishworth, ms Gillard and mr Rudd. The problem has never been about things being built, it has been about value for money, and the reality is hundreds of millions if not billions of our dollars have been wasted

      Reply

    • AdamC says:

      09:06am | 29/03/10

      Amanda, while I am sure that Michael and Lance love their new school building (and no doubt also loved the photo opportunity with you), for adults who pay taxes the value-for-money of your school spend-a-thon is actually rather important.

      And I don’t believe that cost bow-outs and lack of utility of many projects is merely an elitist concern of those voters living in ‘ivory towers’. Indeed, I think maybe even Michael and Lance’s parents would hope that their politicians deign to trouble themselves with trivial fripperies like rigorous cost-benefit analyses. And, increasingly, to justify all the stuff-ups on the basis of the need for economic stimulus is a fallacy. As I understand it, much of the construction in Victoria is just starting!

      Reply

    • Ian F says:

      09:07am | 29/03/10

      Schoolchildren will at least have some daily reminders of the future debt obligations entered into by the Labor Party.

      PS: I was rather hoping a representative of the Labor Party from South Australia might explain the fake Family First how-to-vote cards distributed by Labor activists nine days ago.

      Reply

    • Mattofact says:

      09:01am | 29/03/10

      This thing is bleeding money.

      Yes, the project itself might not be so bad, however if the ‘revolution’ had of been run efficiently (a big ‘if’ under this Government) we would have had, with the same funds, capacity to build more infrastructure and thus create more (temporary) jobs.

      We would have had a lot more for the same price- it’s that simple.

      Amanda, imagine you were in opposition and the Libs were running this, honestly- what would you think?

      Reply

    • Evan Findlay says:

      09:21am | 29/03/10

      The Liberals would never run this. They are to busy burning money on middle class welfare like baby bonuses, first home owners grants and private health rebates, none of which increase productivity within the economy.

    • Mark says:

      11:02am | 29/03/10

      Nah of course not.

      Little things like getting first home owners a leg up and helping out working families (lawl I used it in a sentence) to do - what? stimulate economic activity.

      Oh and stuff like full coverage health insurance. Wow we wouldn’t want to have any type of medical insurance that is all inclusive would we. No way would we want to be seen to having health insurance across the population. We wouldn’t want to do that. What other western democracy would pursue such an outrageous policy. The left would be aghast at such a thought. The waste of those right wing evil peoples. Obama would be all like"Let us hope to not change…..oh wait”

    • Ben says:

      12:31pm | 29/03/10

      That correct Evan Findlay, the Liberals would never be so irresponsible.

    • James1 says:

      12:55pm | 29/03/10

      I call shenanigans Mark.  Prove that the first home owners grant helped anyone except real estate agents and sellers who realised they could simply bump their asking price up.  Until then, prepare for a brooming…

    • Grumbles says:

      01:38pm | 29/03/10

      Evan Findlay, Rudd doubled the FHOG for approx 1 year and is currently pushing for legislation that would effectively double the baby bonus. What was your point again?

    • Mark says:

      02:07pm | 29/03/10

      Easy.

      You see when went and applied and qualified for the scheme the government gave you some money.

      Now stick with me here James this is the part where it gets tricky.

      What people then had was more money than before they qualified. You know and a house and stuff. So people that got scheme were better off than if they didn’t.

      So again to make sure you kept up, if you qualified for the scheme you had more money than when you started. See the benefit?

      Can we agree that the recipients of the first home buyers scheme were financially better off after getting it than not? It ain’t real hard.

      I assume some of the recipients were not real estate agents. So I think I have safely proven that not only did real estate agents and house sellers who wouldn’t qualify for the grant by the way (hahaha you see you tried to trick me there you cunning beats you) were better off but other people too.

      Of course I can’t prove definitively that at least one of the recipients of the grant was not a real estate agent. but I am willing to go out on a limb here for you.

      Anything else? This game is sort of fun.

    • Mark says:

      02:31pm | 29/03/10

      Ok James.

      Basics first if you receive the grant you had more money than if if you did not receive the grant.

      Ergo you were “better off”.

      Not all the recipients of the grant were real estate agents. Here I am going out on a limb as i cannot base it on fact. I have not seen a study suggesting that the only recipient of the grants were estate agents.

      Sellers by definition owned property. Hence they wer not entitled to a first home owners grant.

      Thus people other than sellers and real estate agents were helped by the grant.

      There is your proof. Anything else?

    • persephone says:

      02:28pm | 29/03/10

      Mark, I think you’ll find that ‘first home owners’ schemes were started by Labor governments. Certainly mine, back in 1983, was provided by Hawke - and was an innovation.

      Full coverage health insurance - a nice little scam designed to benefit the Liberals’ mates in the industry. Hasn’t relieved the pressure on public hospitals and has cost taxpayers billions a year to subsidise people who (by and large) can afford to pay it anyway. The same money directed at public health would have achieved far better bang for the buck.

      We do have something which provides health insurance across the population, it’s called Medicare.

      Introduced by Whitlam, removed by Fraser, replaced by Hawke - hey, there’s a pattern there!!

    • Evan Findlay says:

      04:44pm | 29/03/10

      Grumbles and Mark. Firstly Grumbles, the FHG is a good policy but only for recessions as it is stimulatory. What Howard did was to introduce it during good financial times and subsequently it has driven the housing sector to the brink of complete lunacy. I have owned three homes and the first was only months before Howard unleashed this shortsighted policy. I didn’t bother waiting for the introduction as I knew it would only inflate housing prices way above the $7000. Now it has come to the point that no politician, of any political persuasion would stop it as it may stop people entering the market and subsequently squashing demand and house prices would tumble. And home owners wouldn’t want that. Nor would politicians who need their votes!

      And Mark, how does increasing house prices by over 200% by ill conceived and thoughtless policy help working families. I don’t know about you Mark by my pay has not increased by 200%. And as for private health, I’ll quote your free market ideology, if you want it you pay for it. This is just another ill conceived policy. I could almost stomach it had Howard cut defence spending by 2% to pay for it, but the economic charlatan that he is, he just paid for it out of tax revenue. And when tax revenue falls as it has done then other areas of the economy have to suffer in order to prop up the insurance premiums of the rich.

      All governments have been guilty of mistreating the health system and in my opinion health and education should be free for all Australians. An uneducated and ill society is not good for productivity.

      And Mark if you have ever owned a property, especially one these days, $7000 would be lucky to pay your stamp duties. It takes nothing off the principal, so the point of it is….. To line the pockets of the state governments. Yeah real great policy!

    • Mark says:

      07:27am | 30/03/10

      Lolololol Evan.

      The scheme inflated house prices by 200%. That is so out there as a claim you win the silly statement of the column award.

      Seriously show me anywhere where anyone ever suggested it did this.

      Owned plenty of property actually. Again stay on topic. Tangents are pointless. james asked me to prove something. I did. He asked the wrong thing of course but hey i stayed with him.

      Stay with me here.

      200% because of the first home owners scheme hahahahahaha.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:30am | 30/03/10

      Hey Mark if you ever bothered to do any research you wouldn’t continually be making a fool of yourself. Research from the realestate source.com.au states that from the year 2000/2007 the house prices in Fitzroy grew over 200%. Just to refresh your shallow and obviously dogged memory, the FHOG was introduced in July 2000. My first house was bought in Redcliffe for $97,500 of the same year. It recently sold for $395,000. I know you have proven on many occasions on this forum that you are naive and a little muddled, but if you can’t see that giving away money to people to purchase a home only fuels demand, thus pushing up house prices then you are as simple as I think. Only last week it was reported that the housing markets in Brisbane and Sydney are way over priced. Surprise surprise. I can’t complain as I made very good money out of these people who paid ridiculous amounts of money. Now I can’t speak for everyone, but of the three houses I sold they were all purchased by first home owners and their $7000 grants.

      I know it’s too much to expect you to do any research but sometimes you are better off to shut your mouth and just let us fellow bloggers think your a simple minded fool.

      And as for you owning property, I doubt that very much. Maybe back in the 1950’s. But as you have clearly demonstrated you don’t have a clue about real estate prices since the inception of the FHOG.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      09:16am | 29/03/10

      It made me chuckle to read Amanda tell just how incredibly exciting and important the ‘multi-purpose hall’ was, and how it means that the pupils will be able to play sport no matter the weather. Well, that will undoubtedly ensure that, when it rains, the kids will not have to endure extra English or Maths tuition but can go and knock a ball around instead. They may not be able to spell ‘Badminton’, but they’ll be able to play it…......

      Fail.

      Reply

    • chris says:

      10:32am | 29/03/10

      Steve,

      The immense benefit of a mult-purpose hall is also to host all of those grand openings that pollies like to attend. You can’t have them standing in the rain can you.

      Also the sounds of rapturous applause from the huddled masses also sounds better within a confined space

    • persephone says:

      08:08am | 30/03/10

      OK, so Tony Abbott playing sport is terrific and shouldn’t be questioned, but it’s a waste of time for students?

      Surely healthy living is healthy living at whatever age, and should be encouraged - particularly in our young people, as it will set them good habits for life?

    • Dorothy says:

      09:42am | 29/03/10

      The Liberals are very quick to bring up the topic of cost but at the same time are incredibly quick to forget the context in which this scheme was implemented.

      As I recall it (and it wasn’t that long ago), a Global Financial Crisis was on the brink of crushing our economy. This was following more than a decade of a Liberal Government underfunding public schools and over prioritising private schools, when economic forecasts were showing that the bubble could burst at any moment. The stimulus package presented an opportunity to work with schools to implement the long term projects they had been planning and to build jobs in an unstable economy. The Liberals speak as if a dichotomy of jobs and education, when spending was required to keep the economy afloat, is a bad thing. Yes there have been voices of oppostiion from the school community but mostly in the minority. And yet they say Labor are the masters of spin.

      If we had it the LIberal’s way and not Kevin Rudd’s way, our nation’s schools would be at the bottom of the list of priorities and these projects would remain on a wish list, struggling to get funding.

      Reply

    • Steve Putnam says:

      10:27am | 14/06/10

      Despite some problems with the roll out, this scheme has created jobs & countered the neglect in pubic education that was the hallmark of the Howard government. Under Education MInister Kemp, wealthy private schools were given money to splash about on wish lists like indoor basketball courts, swimming pools, rifle ranges & such like, while public schools were forced to raise funds for essentials like assembly halls, canteens etc. If you wish to educate your child privately, do so,- don’t expect someone else to subsidise it.

    • Bill says:

      10:22am | 29/03/10

      We had a recession yet builders, unions, architects and god knows who else can charge top dollor in the name of a revolution. Are we the lucky country or the stupid country? Yes stimulate the economy ,but demand value for money. When it comes to building you can do anything but anyone who has built knows the trick is to get it done on a tight budget and on time. If this was done then you would have my praise, but alas you haven’t .

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      11:27am | 29/03/10

      Dear oh dear - just like the building education “revolution”.

      What a sad argument. Michael in year 7 and Lance in year 2 wheeled out to defend the rorts. Are they friends of little Gracie as well? Seriously this is worst argument for anything I have ever seen. The only other evidence backing up Amanda’s point was the “excited chatter” at the opening. That was probably about the start of the footy season or Pup’s ton.

      Amanda try again. You get a good “vibe” at one opening and a kid say how cool it is they can play handball undercover at lunch and you extrapolate that out to a glowing endorsement of the scheme. Toss in a bit of negativity re the liberals and the stock standard come down from the ivory tower bit and voila you have concocted nothing.

      Again, you have nothing.

      Not one piece of cost benefit analysis.

      Not 1 example of how competitive tendering led to builders being chosen to provide quality and value.

      Not 1 example of how a hall or a COLA is going to suddenly improve my child’s education experience. Just saying it doesn’t make it so by the way.

      Not 1 example of how across the whole scheme you got it wrong, learnt from it and improved. I don’t expect perfection but hell I expect good results and continual improvement.

      So what it all boils down to is spin. And more spin. And cover-ups. And no planning. No time to dot i’s and cross the t’s as the line from Tanner goes. There is a bloke obviously all over his portfolio, just open the gates and let her flow boys.

      Just like the batt scheme that somehow manage to increase imports and stimulate the funeral home industry and emergency rooms of Australia the BER will be another debacle going on for years.

      This one will really hurt too I bet.

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      12:57pm | 29/03/10

      I call shenanigans on your cover ups, Mark.  Prove it.

    • Mark says:

      02:10pm | 29/03/10

      Hmm might be another post puter is playing up but anyway.

      See my article linked above - the SMH one. You know the SNH that bastion of right wing ideology.

      False shenanigans again.

      Would you like to play again? I can do this for a short time longer my son.

    • fehowarth says:

      11:36am | 29/03/10

      I have only visited my grandchildren’s primary school and I am very impressed with the improvements made.  Computers in every classroom where they are been made used of.  A new computer room with ample machines and the latest technology for state of the art teaching.  There are interaction white boards that allow communication between other schools and the community.  The hall being built means that assemblies and school events will take place in a warm environment instead of in the rain and cold. What many do not realise what being is provided is fully equipped buildings with the latest technology and state of the art equipment.  Comparison of building costs means nothing

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      12:23pm | 29/03/10

      Rubbish fehowarth. You are wrong period.

      It is all about the cost. We can have anything we want but we have to weigh the cost up. Society works like that. Utopia is slightly different but we don’t live at that address mate.

      Cool your school got new buildings, computers and some uber whiteboards. Lets say for arguments sake, as we have been, it was done at a higher cost than necessary. That the building could have been built for far less than it was. That the other infrastructure was competitively tendered for and priced. What else could have been got? How much interest would we have saved in the future?

      Does that mean our roads are now not going to be repaired for the foreseeable future? Is the dole to be stopped or lowered? Do we abandon Christmas Island? Do we lower payments to carers? What exactly is it that we need to cut back on or not implement now we have wasted dollars unnecessarily.

      The government could easily fund a thousand different things. But should it? Does the cost make the benefit seem appropriate.

      That is the question. Of course shiny new things you don’t directly pay for now appear great and superdooper.

      Problem is we will all pay for it in the future. And how.

      Saying the end justifies the means is very, very dangerous. Think a bit and don’t get swayed by the bribe in front of you.

    • Mark says:

      12:24pm | 29/03/10

      Rubbish fehowarth. You are wrong period.

      It is all about the cost. We can have anything we want but we have to weigh the cost up. Society works like that. Utopia is slightly different but we don’t live at that address mate.

      Cool your school got new buildings, computers and some uber whiteboards. Lets say for arguments sake, as we have been, it was done at a higher cost than necessary. That the building could have been built for far less than it was. That the other infrastructure was competitively tendered for and priced. What else could have been got? How much interest would we have saved in the future?

      Does that mean our roads are now not going to be repaired for the foreseeable future? Is the dole to be stopped or lowered? Do we abandon Christmas Island? Do we lower payments to carers? What exactly is it that we need to cut back on or not implement now we have wasted dollars unnecessarily.

      The government could easily fund a thousand different things. But should it? Does the cost make the benefit seem appropriate.

      That is the question. Of course shiny new things you don’t directly pay for now appear great and superdooper.

      Problem is we will all pay for it in the future. And how.

      Saying the end justifies the means is very, very dangerous. Think a bit and don’t get swayed by the bribe in front of you.

    • persephone says:

      02:46pm | 29/03/10

      Mark would rather we had a 10% unemployment rate than we went into debt.

      That’s his choice, but it wasn’t the government’s, and I’d bet that the people who would have made up the 5%+ who would have been unemployed but aren’t are relieved the government didn’t go that way.

      I’d also advise you, Mark, that if your aim here is to support the Liberal cause, you’re not doing yourself any favours by attacking posters like fehowarth - or indeed by maligning your fellow Australians, as you so often do.

      You haven’t produced any evidence to ‘prove’ that a building was built for more than it should have been. Comparing a school building with other structures just demonstrates an ignorance of the needs of modern schools and the reasons behind ‘over engineering’ buildings which are designed to last for generations (with a really tough bunch of tenants!)

      We already know that the government plans to repay the money without skimping on necessary works.

      If you’re worried about future debt, however, I’d be looking at the Liberals very carefully. They’ve only come out with a few policy ideas, and virtually no costings - but each of these ideas comes with a much bigger (declared) cost than similar governmental proposals and no clear ways of paying for this.

      So if you’re afraid the government’s going to cut spending on the basics, then you have even more reason to fear what the Liberals’ plans are.

      They have declared they will spend more than the government on climate change and parental leave.

      They have refused to support cost saving measures in relation to private health insurance, the youth allowance, obstetric services, IVF etc - resulting in billions of dollars of unnecessary government expenditure.

      This doesn’t bode well for their performance as an alternative government.

    • Mark says:

      07:28am | 30/03/10

      Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Again poor technique peresphone. I guess that is all you have left.

      As I have said in previous posts on the boards your comprehension of the written word is poor.

      it is simple and again I will repeat it for your benefit.

      Regardless of the object in question be it tangible or intangible there is no excuse to overpay for it.

      A real simple example just for you. We want a Mars bar. We can get it by tender. Or we can use the supplier of our choice.

      The tender would have go it for market value of $1.

      The process of using our supplier made it cost $3. Indeed the open tender would have exposed us to the fantastic buy 1 get 1 free option.

      That is all it is about. Stay on topic son.

      Your tangential arguments while cute are quite shallow. Concentrate son.

      I have provided links to news reports outlining the overspend and cover ups in the system. You have provided some hearsay and nice motherhood statements that labor will repay it cause they said. No details mind you. Just a promise. We all know how well their promises work out don’t we.

      And gawd harden up son. This is a political debate on the interwebz. Malign? So?

    • persephone says:

      08:19am | 30/03/10

      Mark, I’m not a ‘son’.

      And I don’t care if you alienate people, I’m just advising you it’s not good tactics. Ignore my advice -  I’ll be very pleased.

      And you have avoided my point, too, Mr Stay on Topic - why are the Liberals sending us further into debt by failing to support the government’s efforts to save money?

    • Mark says:

      08:17am | 30/03/10

      Son listen - your point was off topic and tangential. Following it would be off topic. Is this hard to grasp? The agenda is set by the column don’t you think? Please keep that in mind. The column is the big piece of writing at the top of the page in case you missed it. A lot of your comments appear to have.

      /pat persephone, does that make it feel better?

      Mr Stay on Topic, I like that Mr SoT - RAWR!!

    • persephone says:

      11:43am | 30/03/10

      Avoiding the question.

    • Brad Coward says:

      11:52am | 29/03/10

      The ALP didn’t cross all of the T’s and dot all of the I’s when it came to the great insulation kerfuffle.  Obviously nobody learned anything from that, so when it came to whacking buildings up all over the place, why would the public have reason to expect that any checks would be in place ?

      Ms Rishworth, if the government that you are a part of must grandstand….then make the stand genuinely grand ! 

      Can’t give away free insulation, allows construction without looking at three builders quotes…now says “trust me to run the national health system” !  Ms Rishworth, do you ever feel the urge to look up the word “hypocrite” in the dictionary just to check which one of your colleagues photograph is on display ?  You should !

      Reply

    • Ryan says:

      12:19pm | 29/03/10

      fehowarth: way to perpetuate a lie, no in fact the teachers union of NSW (wo are normally big buddies with Labor) has already dispelled that myth, no in fact they also stand behind the rort comments. Thanks for the laugh, please try to keep up!

      Reply

    • TimT says:

      12:46pm | 29/03/10

      Yes: it’s the cost to the community, to the taxpayers, and to government budgets in the decades to come that needs to be remembered.

      Unscrupulous contractors have been repeatedly taking as much of the Rudd-Grant money as they can.

      On 2GB the other day, one NSW builder estimated the price of a new school hall at around $25,000. The contractors were charging $1 million for it! (I think I remember those figures correctly)

      Reply

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      12:56pm | 29/03/10

      All the buildings in the world & a Lap-top on every lap are just things. If I buy the best golf clubs in the world won’t make me a better golfer, just poorer. If however I employ a really good coach/teacher, then I might improve. So it is with our schools, we need good teachers not “things” for our kids to learn.

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      02:02pm | 29/03/10

      Rubbish.  Dumb kids come from dumb parents.  It doesn’t matter how good a teacher is, if a child comes from a home where books are unheard of, and academic pursuits are looked down upon, they - like their parents - will end up dumb.  Blaming the teachers what stupid parents do so that they do not have to face the fact they have failed their children.

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      02:48pm | 29/03/10

      Sorry James you are wrong, wrong, wrong, not to mention that you obviously didn’t read my post properly, equipment will only go so far, you need a competent teacher to show you how to use the the equipment. Oh & FYI I work with disadvantaged kids who have slipped through the cracks, you’d be amazed at how just a few hrs one on one helps them.

    • James1 says:

      03:09pm | 29/03/10

      I don’t dispute what you say about equipment (in fact, it seems like I find it even more irrelevant than you do), I just think that both equipment and teachers are largely beside the point.  If the disadvantaged children you have worked with had good parents, they would be smarter, and would have no need of one on one help, as they would get it at home from their parents.  In our education system, teachers are not equipped, nor do they have the time, to sacrifice the education of kids from good homes to spend inordinate amounts of time with kids not from good homes.  If the bad parents simply spent some time (as you do, which I admire greatly) with their children teaching them things, and inculcating a passion for education in them, their children would not be left behind, and they would not need to blame teachers for anything.  Thus I argue that blame does not lie with the teachers or the equipment, but with the parents.

    • Mark says:

      03:27pm | 29/03/10

      Wow James I really didn’t think you were like that.

      I thought you were actually (poorly) trying some tactics on me.

      My bad. You just took a generalisation and charged forth on that basis. That is not argument. Trust me son a good teacher in a iron shed will beat a poor teacher in a modern classroom. Every time.

      So much wrong with your post and so angry. Settle it down a notch.

    • acker says:

      04:22pm | 29/03/10

      @James1 ..and how many old burnt out farts of teachers are just going through the motions turning up to teach and collect a pay packet. Don’t say they don’t exsist.

    • James1 says:

      03:02pm | 30/03/10

      Iron sheds, state of the art classrooms, burnt out old farts, none of this matters if the parents don’t invest the time and energy necessary for the positive development of their child’s intellect.  A good teacher in an iron shed will achieve nothing at all if the child goes home to complete lack of support from the parents.  And in my experience, it is always those parents who blame schools, teachers, and equipment for the fact that their child is dumb.

      I actually agree that a good teacher with little equipment is better than a bad teacher with heaps of equipment, but neither matters when parents don’t teach their children to read, and behave, or in many cases, even send them to school.  I know that bad teachers exist, and I also know that good teachers exist.  But they are meaningless in the face of some parents, who (being mostly bogans) only want to blame everyone else for the fact they have let their children down.  And it makes me angry.

    • Gary Cox says:

      01:26pm | 29/03/10

      Amanda Rishworth you have got to be kidding yourself. Sure you cite an example of somewhere where the program has worked well, but examples of this are in the minority.

      In country Victoria I know of a school which raised money through fundraising to build an under cover outdoor area two years ago only to be told that they have to pull it down against their wishes so the same thing can be built with BER money, at three times the cost of the original structure I might add. Just down the road I know of another school where they have 7 students, therefore will likely close in the next year or two, and they’re getting a $750,000 hall.

      I thought that the idea of this exercise was to stimulate local economies, yet I know trademan who have tendered for these school projects only to have the tenders awarded to big melbourne companies two hours away.

      Then there’s the fact that in a typical government way the buildings are costing at least twice or as in the example cited above, three times more than they should due to all the consultants and bureacrats involved.

      Even the Labor voting school principal at our local school who I know socially said to me, ‘it is biggest waste of money, but anyway we might as well take it.’ I think its more than a waste of money, its criminal that’s what is.

      Reply

    • Fred Skeptic says:

      01:42pm | 29/03/10

      Clearly Ms. Amanda Rishworth has her head firmly planted up her bottom.
      If she didn’t she would see how state schools have been unable to ensure value for money while private and Catholic schools, like the Antonio Catholic School, have had an active input and received value for money.

      Reply

    • Henry says:

      01:53pm | 29/03/10

      I know of three small schools in my area what have had:  a hall built for 13 students, a trade school block built for 80 students of which 4 study a trade, and a library built for a school that has a library but wanted new PC’s.

      The BER when exposed will make the insulation scam look like a teddy bears picnic and will end up with Gillard being utterly disgraced and publicly hanged drawn and quartered for her pornographic waste and mismanagement.

      Reply

    • Robert Smissen says:

      10:33pm | 29/03/10

      They should count themselves lucky that they weren’t given insulation.

    • Far Canal says:

      02:09pm | 29/03/10

      Having worked in the construction for 20 years, explicitly on the WA Schools program for the last 12 and I’ll confirm that this Labor ‘spending spree’ has not creataed a single new permanent job. The contractors that have always done the jobs just have a whole heap more work on in a very short time frame. The stories have already started filtering through the industry about School principles and parents standing in front of bulldozers to stop them knocking over existing buildings to build a new smaller unnecessary one. Also the Queensland school getting a new Library for it’s one student, incidently that school is due to close next year and be demolished.

      Reply

    • Andy says:

      03:50pm | 29/03/10

      Don’t tell Persephone he won’t believe you.

    • persephone says:

      08:16am | 30/03/10

      Yep, and they’re out there doing it all themselves.

      Get real.

      And school communities standing in front of bulldozers would be front page news across the nation, not something that ‘filtered through’.

      Please name the QLD school, how can anyone check otherwise?

    • Brian Connor says:

      05:26pm | 29/03/10

      Hey Amanda, good thing you agree with Tony Abbott in “getting out more”........maybe that is why you are a back bencher:


      Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says the government’s criticism of him for taking part in a nine-day charity bike ride, rather than focusing on the politics at hand, is a “cheap shot”.

      The 12th annual Pollie Pedal will see Tony Abbott and other federal MPs saddle up for a 1000km bike ride from Melbourne to Sydney in early April.

      The government has used the event to accuse Mr Abbott of fitting in his duties as opposition leader around sporting commitments.

      Mr Abbott said that’s just a “cheap shot”.

      “The Pollie Pedal is not just a bike ride, it’s actually my version of a listening tour,” he told ABC Radio.

      “It takes politicians to places where they don’t normally go,” he said, adding that the event has already raised more than $1 million for charity.

      “It’s a pretty cheap shot for the prime minister and his minions to be saying that this is somehow not part of a reasonable politician’s… connection with the electorate.”

      Reply

    • Red says:

      05:56pm | 29/03/10

      I agree Amanda. Every school I visit is ecstatic about its new buildings (very few of which are halls)
      People have forgotten that 13 months ago we were at the worst of the GFC and this program worked a treat
      In the words of the Roman Emperor “non et illegitimus wingnuts carborundem”

      Reply

    • Ben says:

      08:45pm | 29/03/10

      Name some of these schools you’re talking about, all of them if you don’t mind, considering you said “every” school you visit is ecstatic about what they’ve got.  I’d be very interested to see if they got what they wanted, and just how exhorbitant the cost was for what they had built. 

      It must be nice living in a utopia where nothing affects your area for some reason like it does everywhere else.

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      09:28pm | 29/03/10

      We were at the worst of the GFC eh? Look, I have lived through three REAL recessions, and what Australia experienced was NOT a recession. In a recession, prices stay flat or go DOWN, yet the BER is having trouble building a $100K shed for less than $500K. Maybe then, the recession is over and that’s why prices are high? Maybe, but if that’s true, why are we still stimulating the economy?

      And why is the Government pouring BILLIONS of dollars into the economy while the Reserve Bank Governor is making dire warnings of further interest rate hikes? Just where ARE we in the economic cycle? 

      Does our Government know?

    • Red says:

      09:48am | 30/03/10

      I admit I haven’t been to every school so I suggest you check out how positive the Primary Principals’ Association is about BER. BTW schools were given a selection of plans that they could opt for depending on their needs and enrolment. It must be terrible living in a world where eveybody is negative, people are always put down, no credit is ever given…..

    • cybacaT says:

      07:13pm | 29/03/10

      The writer has missed the point completely.  Everyone likes new school buildings - you missed the real concerns out there about the program:

      - why are the quotes for much of the work way beyond normal prices?  1.2m for shadecloth?
      - why do school building signs have to be erected advertising Labor even if the building hasn’t started?  Why have Labor insisted these signs stay up until the next election?
      - why have school Principals been silenced from speaking negatively about the rorting and wastage for threat of losing any and all funding from this scheme?

      These are the reasons why people are critical because it’s our taxpayer funding being abused for this wasteful spending.

      Reply

    • Christian Real says:

      05:18am | 30/03/10

      The Liberal Opposition and their radical supporters can’t think much of their children and the future generations of children that will benefit from new libraries, school halls and indoor play areas that will keep them dry when it rains.
      Those commentors ridiculing these building projects at schools have shown that they don’t have their childrens interest at heart,because they care more about the diatribe and spin that is coming from the Opposition Liberal party than they care about their own children and family siblings that attend these schools and will reap the benefits of these new facilities.
      Regardless of money spent on the schools,I see it as money well spent and it is a shame that some people are blinded by the Liberal party spin and cannot see this.
      For the Liberal party to attack even the building of school libraries appears that they are denying the children and future generations of children a chance to read,learn and be more educated.
      It also appears that the Liberal Party is denying children and future generations of children a place to read and learn(new libraries) and you would expect this type of opposition to new school building infastructure coming from communist countries more than from the the Federal Liberal Opposition Party of Australia.

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      12:15pm | 30/03/10

      Use of the word children in the above 7.

      Use of the word siblings 1.

      Use of the think of the children argument - well all of it was.

      Lolability of the above piece and argument - priceless.

      Keep up with us Christian Real. The Libs are not against building school halls to keep the kid dry. (That is a real problem we have at my place whenever it rains I get 3 wet kids back from school…oh wait no I don’t but I digress)

      What they against is a building - and lets just spitball here - say a canteen, a tiny one without a fridge costing $580,000. Peter Lewis in his column seems to think that is a tad overpriced.

      You see? School gets overpriced NOT value for money canteen. This is bad.

      This is not good.

      Thank you for your attention.

    • Christian Real says:

      05:36am | 30/03/10

      Polywatcher says: 08/29am 29/03/10
      Polywatcher, you say at “what cost”, does that mean that your children,siblings or future generations of children aren’t worth the money being spent on their schools, on new libraries,school halls and other much needed facilities that the former liberal government failed to spend on?
      My wife and I lost our boy at birth and yet I applaud this current government on creating new building infastructure that will benefit children and future generations of children to learn and be educated in.
      It is money well spent and well invested, and regardless of the cost I do not mind my taxpayer dollars going towards helping the children and future generations of children to have better facilities to learn and be educated in.

      Reply

    • Polywatcher says:

      10:00am | 30/03/10

      Christian Real, those same children to whom you refer will indeed study in comfort. Maybe you and I will not be around to see those same children continuing to pay off the KRudd debt for the rest of their lives. Let’s get our priorities straight for those children. You failed to quote me in full. It would have been more honest of you to repeatt my quote which is as follows:- “It is not the quality of the projects or the need. I repeat , at what cost????

    • Christian Real says:

      05:48am | 30/03/10

      Children and future generations of children should not have a price put on their heads or on anything that enhances their education and learning,like the building of new school libraries,halls and indoor playing areas .
      Those commentor,as well as the liberal opposition party should be ashamed of themselves for ridiculing the money being spent on these school projects ,it is money well spent.

      Reply

    • Christian Real says:

      06:14am | 30/03/10

      Me says: 09.09am 29/03/10.
      You talk about value for money Me, but how much do you value your children or siblings or future generations of children to come?
      The money spent on school libraries, halls and other building infastructure will benefit the children of today, tomorrow and future generations to come, and whether or not costs for these projects may have blown out in some cases, the children are worth the costs, the value is in the children’s education and learning.
      The Liberal Opposition and supporters like you should not put a price or value on children’s learning and education, and regardless of the costs it is well worth it.
      Only communists countries would be expected to impede or object against children being able to read and learn in new libraries, and this cast a shadow of doubt over the Liberal Opposition party and their supporters objections to these new school infastructures.

      Reply

    • Scotty says:

      07:15am | 30/03/10

      The quotes are so high beacuse of simple economics. Because there are only so many subcontractors that all head contractors use, the supply is relatively low, while the demand is stupidly high and so concentrated. It is the subbies, not head contractor’s mark-up that is causing such inflated prices.

      Reply

    • SOULTRADER says:

      07:36am | 30/03/10

      @persephone.
      You seem to be the knight in shining armour for the Labor Party. Come on - fess up - who do you work for? Are you one of Uncle Kev’s Staffers? Do you go to sleep at night playing tapes of his speeches? Are you so indoctrinated, that you can not see fault at all with HRH Rudd. I suppose you live day to day, giving all your worldly wealth to those in need? You wander the streets looking for down trodden to help? It seems that your Labor glass is always half full, no matter how badly they perform or when they just open their collective mouths to change feet. Is there anything at all that Labor has not achieved or aimed to do that you don’t agree with? Come on, you can not be that blind!
      Come on - fess up - who are you really? Are you Kevin’s long lost twin brother?
      Are you his long lost love-child?
      Is he your long lost love-child?
      Come on - I can’t stand the suspense - tell us all who you really are.
      PLEASE.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      08:19am | 30/03/10

      There’s two sides to every story, soultrader, and I just try and tell one of them.

      I can’t be anyone’s brother.

      As for the staffer questions, I’ve answered them enough and I can’t be bothered.

    • Ryan says:

      10:04am | 30/03/10

      @SOULTRADER: I have ten bucks on persephone as being either Gillard or Roxon.

    • soultrader says:

      10:36am | 30/03/10

      @Ryan
      SInce pers can’t be a brother or son must be ..................one of those two. They have a go at Tony for spending his time exercising his body instead of his brain but Pers must have callouses on her fingers from all the tripe she types on here. But then again, since she dribbles out the same lines all the time, it could be a matter of cut and paste. Even that might push her little left-wing brain-box a little too hard at times.

    • persephone says:

      11:53am | 30/03/10

      No, but flattered to be even mistaken for one of those two great women.

    • Ryan says:

      02:00pm | 30/03/10

      @persephone: really, you think being mistaken for a pollie is flattering. You MUST be a pollie, just about every Australian would be more flattered about being mistaken for a street sweeper than a pollie (no offense to street sweepers for the comparison)

    • persephone says:

      05:30pm | 30/03/10

      Which is a really sad statement about our society, Ryan.

      I have a lot of friends in politics (and a lot who aren’t at all interested).

      My pollie friends - who include MPs from Labor, the Libs, the Nats (no Greens, a girl must have some standards) - are all great people, who genuinely want to make Australia a better place to live in and put up with an awful lot of crap in their attempt to make it so.

      What are you doing to try and make the country better?

    • Ryan says:

      10:07am | 31/03/10

      @persephone: Like Kevin Rudd right? Drunk on power and feathering his own nest towards a UN post. No interest in the country or the good of his fellow man there, no instead he cares only for his future power. A liar to the people, an abuser of our service men and women, a person who delights in the degradation of women by attending a strip club. All around class nerd!

      Don’t you dare and challenge me with an infantile line like “What are you doing to try and make the country better?” I do WAY more than ANY of you Labor dirt bags do for society, volunteer firefighter, volunteer surf lifesaver, I work in our community for my community not for myself like you Labor people do.
      Let me guess, now that you know I am a surf lifesaver you are going to attempt to discredit me with some filthy and offensive, low attack on “budgie smugglers”.

      So answer your own question persephone “What are you doing to try and make the country better? ” other than sitting here spruiking Rudds lies day after day?

    • persephone says:

      12:22pm | 31/03/10

      Secretary of my local sporting club, clubperson of the year last year due to the number of volunteer hours I put in - producing newsletters, helping out in the canteen, helping promote the achievements of junior players, taking photographs, marshalling matches (including removing drunks from the ground, intervening in physical fights), helping set up and clear up grounds, writing applications for funding, organising first aid courses and other training.

      Local councillor, actively lobbying state government contacts to get the funding for projects needed by our community, which have transformed our town - something noted by those visiting over the past few years. Gone from one shop in three locally being closed to full capacity.

      On local hospital board for ten years, during which time major rebuilding has taken place with expansion of services.

      Member of my local CFA, Landcare, historical society, Parents & Friends Association.

      Working with one of the major universities on research to benefit my area.

      In the last ten years, have organised major fundraisers for the community, such as one for Bushfire relief where we cooked sausages for over three thousand people, as well as lobbying a major museum to bring one of its interactive children’s programs to our local school, the first time they had taken the project to a school.

      I’m sure I’ve forgotten a few bits along the way, but that’ll do.

    • Ryan says:

      11:06pm | 31/03/10

      @persephone: all that and still have all this time to spend sitting on here spreading Labor propaganda under a cowardly pseudonymn. Methinks I will apply Ocham’s Razor to this one and find the answer.

    • Steve says:

      07:49am | 30/03/10

      Another mindless drone from the backbench, wheeled out to tow the party line.  Straight out of uni, straight into parliamentary staff, straight into parliament.  This is what the two major parties have done to our electoral system, and this is why editorial pieces like this aren’t worth a pinch….

      Reply

    • Stu Mac says:

      09:01am | 30/03/10

      You have to be joking. The contractors taking on these jobs are making an absolute fortune. I was talking to a friend who is a contractor who stated that they are pricing these jobs at double what they would to a private customer and then through the building timeline are adding further costs on for incidentals as a result of changes to the original building documentation. This Labor government is a sham. They might as well get the ‘boat people’ to put ‘insulation’ in the ceilings of all of these buildings so then the kids can keep warm whilst looking up information on ‘ETS’ and ‘Grocery Watch’.

      Reply

    • Red says:

      09:42am | 30/03/10

      Steve_of_Cornubia you have lived through 3 real recessions. Well done! You didn’t have to live through your 4th because the Labor government learnt from history - if you don’t stimulate the econmy in a downturn (GFC) you will dive into recession.

      Reply

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      05:12pm | 30/03/10

      I don’t take any credit for living through three recessions, but I guess you were having a go at sarcasm. Keep trying.

      As for ‘stimulus’, I can’t fathom why Rudd is stimulating while Glenn Stevens is warning of higher interest rates - which he’s suggesting because there is a real threat of overheating or inflation.

      So which is it; overheating (hence the increasing interest rates) or recession (hence the continuing stimulus)?

    • Andrew says:

      09:51am | 30/03/10

      Sixteen point two billion dollars. Lets get that right $16,200,000,000.00!

      On school halls, libraries and lean to’s. With a massive amount of padding and rorting of cost.

      Wow! Labor just don’t get it.

      My two cents worth (and you’ll get a full 2c value for this) is as follows:

      1. Wouldn’t it be a better idea to spend $16.2b improving resources and teaching standards (and please don’t point to the yet to be delivered laptops) than building school halls?

      2. Wouldn’t it be better spending money improving teaching salaries and lowering class sizes to make teaching a more attractive profession to go into?

      3. Wouldn’t it be better therefore if a person wanting to do a teaching degree had to get good marks to study at uni rather than just passing themselves? If your teacher is not the sharpest tool in the shed how do you expect them to teach and motivate their pupils?

      4. Given the concerns over childhood obesity, why not spend the money on improving sporting facilities and health education?

      To all of those posters out there who say they are happy with the new buildings, let me ask you this: ten years from now when you are paying more tax to pay for the debt generated by this programme (and other wasteful programmes of this government) and your kids education standard has not been improved at all, will you:

      a) Be a little disappointed;
      b) finally realise this programme was a dud; or
      c) Walk up to your local school, look at the school hall, have a warm glow in your heart, as you simply ignore the fact that the empty school hall is as hollow as every promise made by this wastrel government.

      As for Amanda Rishworth, puhlease, enough with the propaganda.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      05:48pm | 30/03/10

      1. This is being done - it’s called the National Curriculum.

      2. This would involve a commonwealth takeover of education. The Feds are employing some teachers in specific roles but they’re not allowed to take over majority funding unless the constitution changes.

      3. Alas, the sad run down of University standards under the previous government is taking a while to address. Apparently, thanks to Howard, you can have failed Year 12 abysmally but still get a degree.

      4. Most of these halls are also sporting facilities, as I keep pointing out ad lib ab nauseum.

      Mark, highly unlikely that anyone will be paying extra in taxes. The repayment plan has been worked out and is set out in the Budget papers and does not include new taxes.

      But look at it this way: in those ten years, thousands of students would have used that building - not just for assemblies, but for sport, drama, dances, and as an examination centre.  The local community will have used it for meetings, conferences,  indoor sports, dancing, deb balls and so on (our community’s been hanging out for somewhere to do all these things).

      If taxes do go up to pay for it, most of the community will accept that that’s fee for service.

      They’ll probably think that having had something for ten years rather than nothing was worth it.

    • Andrew says:

      01:57pm | 31/03/10

      Wrong again Pers, on all counts.

      1. The national curriculum does not address teaching standards or improve resouces. Labor is too scared of the teachers union.

      2. Wrong again. I know something of constitutional law and clearly you do not.

      3. I started university in the late eighties and teaching was the easiest degree then, remind me again, who was in government then?

      4. So they’re all purpose are they? School assembly then put away the chairs and pull out some floor mats for a couple of forward roles.

      The question here isn’t just about where the money could be better spent but should also focus on the waste and the subsequent spin/cover up being undertaken by the Rudd government. It shameless, shameful and another demonstration of this governments inability to get things right.

      You can prattle on all you want but the truth will emerge and it will simply be another nail in this inept governments coffin.

    • persephone says:

      09:14pm | 31/03/10

      Sigh.

      1. It sets standards. Therefore you can judge teachers by them. MySchool also does the same. We haven’t had any such benchmarks before.

      That said, teacher registration, assessment and professional competence are all in the purvue of the States.

      2. Well, ditto. The reason why Rudd will have to go to a referendum if he can’t get the States on board with health is because of the same constitutional provision; health, like education, is a State responsibility.
      You really don’t understand much about the constitution at all if you’re questioning this. Read the thing.

      3. Yup, teachers have been underpaid a long time. However, it’s only in recent years that students who were complete duds have been allowed to buy their way into universities.

      4. Absolutely, as are all the school halls I know of at present. At one school I was at, not only was the school hall neatly marked out with basketball, netball, indoor soccer etc lines (as they all are) but they would mount a stage on 44 gallon drums for theatrical performances.

      I’m told that one of the recently opened halls is being used by the locals for line dancing lessons and I noticed on the net one martial arts group can’t wait until their local school hall is open so they can shift their lessons there.

      And you can keep saying there’s waste as much as you like - firstly, there’s been less than 100 out of the 24,000 questioned at all, and secondly, in many cases what is perceived as waste is simply due to the higher standards you need when the building is meant to last for one hundred years, be a community emergency shelter and be genuinely multi purpose.

      School halls are expensive buggers, which is why my local school has been trying to raise money for one for nearly half a century and never even got close to doing so.

    • Steve says:

      08:12am | 31/03/10

      This whole system destroyed quality education all over Darwin. The only school (public I will add) that got 15/20 in the top twenty each year only took Year 11 and 12 students.
      Under the revolution, this has changed, and the school is now a zone for underage gangs. About 40% of the teachers, ( and also 4/5 teachers that taught me) have now left within two years of the change). All this “teachers and parents are excited”, tell me it was worth it for the absolute mismanagement of one of our capital cities.

      Now, all these propaganda signs out the front of schools, saying how wonderful it all is. For parents that I know of, to say, “wow it’s really hard to decide where to send my kids to school, because now I can’t trust any of them”. Our public system is Darwin was one to be proud of, we already had everything we needed. Every school even out in Humpty Doo had their all-weather school halls and yes, even cyclone shelters. And lordy honestly, why would you do a school dance at school and not at a fancy place in town.. it’s a much better alternative, and wont cost millions and millions of dollars.

      And here’s the example of money being used.. Darwin High School, was the other alternative to Casuarina Senior College (the 15/20 as above),
      now, for a society that needs more doctors, more, “academics” shall we say… Why then, is all the upgrades at DHS going to arts? Fair enough we need it, but Australia is over populated with it. If you have been to uni you know the saying “I have an arts degree, but I’ll be struggling for a job the rest of my life”. Yes, indeed you will over someone who is brought up more academically and has the potential to achieve better marks.

      Me, I’m not that smart, but, I went to CSC, and the teachers there made everything worthwhile. They even managed to get me the marks that I got to do at uni what I’m doing now. They were the most dedicated bunch I know, who then just got the system slapped in their faces.

      You honestly need a better system for hiring teachers, which may in-fact should also include revamping Uni’s. Not to put wasted money into unneeded things. And if in 5 years you all of a sudden got much higher quality teachers, both primary and secondary. Then THAT my friend, is a education revolution. Not just throwing money into system drain and hoping for a better-than-bad outcome just to say “look what we have done”. You’ve missed the mark Labor. Sorry. Don’t believe me? Ask any student who went through either of those schools I mentioned. They will tell you how much it has changed since they left.

      Reply

    • Willy K says:

      01:27pm | 31/03/10

      Why waste millions putting these buildings in all these crap areas in crap schools?  The kids won’t ever use them and they will get trashed like the old ones.  Once again more handouts to the lazy slobs who vote Labor.

      Reply
 
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