Run for the hills, or at least become a vegetarian

Margaret Gray says:

11:01am | 27/10/09

I’m not sure what’s more HILARIOUS:

A ridiculous (and unscientific) report put out by a Labor government stuffed full of coastal dwellers

or

Being lectured on planet-saving carnivorous abstinence by a self-confessed non-vegetarian proselyte.

Either way: 24K Comedy Gold!!

BT says:

11:05am | 27/10/09

This isn’t new, the UN published reports on this ages ago, as well as other prominent academics ie Peter Singer. I am a vegetarian myself, initially for ethical reasons when I found out about the live skinning of cats and dogs in China to produce cheap leather goods, but I continued investigating animal rights and was shocked at the unthinkable cruelty suffered by animals on factory farms. The environmental effects are considerable, but also, the British medical journal states that meateaters experience 50% more heart disease and 40% more cancer than vegetarians. And please don’t have a go at me about statistics - we’ve all done the course you don’t have to explain the pitfalls of research to me. However, it seems that there is overwhelming evidence that eating animals is bad every way you look at it and I for one simply feel so much better now I have given up the meat.

RT says:

11:20am | 27/10/09

Margaret Gray, do you have a beachfront house? If not, here is your opportunity to pick one up, cheap. They are increasingly harder to insure with the insurance industry increasingly cautious about its exposure to the effects of climate change.
But you are a non-believer in anthropogenic global warming theory, aren’t you? You’d have no problem with an uninsured beach house because of your firm belief that AGW is a hoax, right? There seems to be opportunity bucks to be made both in propery and in re-investment for those willing to take the risk. What are you waiting for?
Those who don’t think there will be any effects from global warming but won’t put their money where their mouth is - 24K comedy.

Tim says:

11:21am | 27/10/09

These Tofu loving freaks will have to pry the steak knife from my cold dead hands before I turn vegetarian..

John A Neve says:

11:27am | 27/10/09

Margaret Gray, with an outlook like yours, you would be a great recruit for the LNP. But then again no, you could never be converted, could you?

KMW says:

11:35am | 27/10/09

Interesting points in this piece.
I stopped eating meat & chicken, about 7 months ago, after a lifetime of eating it everyday. It’s amazing how much I don’t miss it. And how much better I feel.
I know some will never be convinced, and fair enough, each to their own. But for anyone who’s flirted with the idea, it’s a much more rewarding & easier road than expected!

N says:

11:50am | 27/10/09

Sorry, didn’t climb to the top of the food chain just to scamper back down it. But by all means everyone else please stop eating meat, it’ll mean a decent rib eye steak will be less expensive as the demand diminishes.
BT, wondering if you are a vegan? Fish and poultry products aren’t procured in terribly humane circumstance either.
RT: I’m sure if the insurance policy had “would you like to be covered in the case of water lapping at your doorstep” as a checkbox for a beach house, few would select it. Simple fact of the matter is insurance covers a vast number of things, more prudent to coastal properties (and I’m speaking from experience) is corrosion.

Margaret Gray says:

11:50am | 27/10/09

“...Those who don’t think there will be any effects from global warming but won’t put their money where their mouth is…”

To whom are you referring dear?

The smart money already snapped up vast tracts of coastal land from end-of-worlders like yourself some time ago.

And yes, it was very cheap.

TD says:

12:02pm | 27/10/09

Yes. I agree vegetarianism is a responsible way that would help the environment, global warming and many many health problems. It is perfectly agreeable to the human bodies diet. It’s lighter on your bodies system and your wallet. If there is such a fear to change, by gradually replacing meat meals with all vegetable meals would allow you to feel the difference. What about a pub trivia night with tribute to saving the life of an island in the Pacific with an eggplant parmegana , or a vege curry, or vege lasagne, chunky baked potatoes and salad, or crispy tempura vege pieces dipped in chili sauce that all taste just so good with a beer.  Not until you change complete diets do you see the full benefits. Not until there is a huge change in a bigger picture to what Lord Stern is suggesting, will we all see the benefits. Try it… ?

Budz says:

12:11pm | 27/10/09

Eat kangaroo, much better for the environment.

RT says:

12:15pm | 27/10/09

You bought up ‘some time ago’’ , Margaret? When - 1942?  Maybe your inheritance from mummy? Anyway, great,  just build some developments on your cheap waterfront land, provide the buyers with guarantees against non-insurability, invest the larger pile you make by betting it on the stock market against AGW and sit back and retire from haranguing the ignorant poor masses on forums like this. C’mon, I know bluff and bluster when I see it.

Omnivore says:

12:26pm | 27/10/09

Look at your teeth!!! We have incisors for cutting flesh. You don’t need them for munching a carrot. We have evolved to eat meat and indeed without it we would not have evolved at all.

Yes we also eat veggies, that’s cause we are omnivorous. There is no reason why now, in the face of our own evolution should we stop eating meat.

It will be funny in ten years or so when all these “world is going to end” global warming alarmists finally realise they have been played for fools. Only then will you see just how inane your ideas have been to help ‘save the planet’.

Mm says:

12:30pm | 27/10/09

@ N
I’ve always found the ‘top of the food chain’ argument an interesting one. If we are looking at our physical needs & capabilities..
If we were out amongst wild animals, without the aid of modern technology, how long would we last against say, a tiger? A lion?  I don’t think I’d feel all ‘top of the food chain’ against them…

Mary says:

12:33pm | 27/10/09

Cows have teeth, do they eat meat?

Toddzilla says:

12:34pm | 27/10/09

Oh no, the sky is falling… again… just as it did during the global cooling craze of the 70s (yes, that recent and after humans invented carbon, which despite 97% of carbon emissions being emitted by volcanos, is 100% the cause of global warming). I’m yet to meet an intelligent person who is a believer in AGW. All the so-called experts have no expertise - see Al Gore (pollie), Bob Brown (crackpot), Clive Hamilton (clinically insane), David “Would you like fries with that?” Marr, Lord Stern (economist), Garnaut (economist), Penny Wong (or should that be Plenty Wrong), Tim Flannery (museum curator) and Barack Obama (community organiser) - yet they do have large financial interests in ensuring everyone buys this once-in-a-lifetime scam. The science is settled, but unfortunately for the warmenists it has settled on the side of humans having no impact. By all means become a vegatarian, especially if you are into that skinny malnourished look, but don’t for a second do it because your saving the earth. That would be a monumental waste of time. Hell, I’d eat polar bears if they didn’t taste like crap when sauteed.

Rowdy says:

12:36pm | 27/10/09

Any chance that the improvement in deaths per 100,00 people and per 10,000 registrations since 1925 might have something to do with improvements in vehicle technology (eg seatbelts, airbags etc) rather than a significant change in the attitude to dangerous driving?

KMW…if you were eating meat AND chicken everyday for a lifetime, no wonder you needed a change. Responsible attitudes towards eating habbits are the way to go. A couple of serves of meat, 2 of fish and 2 of chicken a week, on seperate days, all with vegetables, fruit, pasta and other items from the food pyramid is enough for me….now, where’s the sauce and the steak knives?

H says:

12:38pm | 27/10/09

@ Tim 12:21 :D Ha,ha, you just gave me an image of Charlton Heston standing up with a big juicy steak above hise head…..

Nathan says:

12:45pm | 27/10/09

I would just like to add that I am purchasing a new V8 this weekend. The greenies can cry all they like, but there’s no difference any one individual can make to what is a global issue.

A global issue requires a global response. The Rudd government knows this. That’s why a 5% reduction in carbon output by 2020 in a country of just 23 million will do sweet FA for the environment.

James says:

12:48pm | 27/10/09

Vegetarian : (sl) an ancient tribal word for the idiot who couldn’t fish or hunt.

intepid says:

12:50pm | 27/10/09

@Toddzilla
I’m yet to meet a reactionary conservative who doesn’t reflexively dismiss any scientific findings that might require them to think less about themselves.

Kelly says:

12:51pm | 27/10/09

@Toddzilla
If you’re going to imply vegetarians are skinny & malnourished for being vegetarian (absolute crap, but anyway…) - will you also concede meat eaters are fat, sweaty & bloated?

N says:

12:57pm | 27/10/09

Mm: Agree “top of the food chain” is a pretty limp argument, however way back in the days of yaw, we did in fact compete with lions and tigers. It was our evolution to work as a society and engineer solutions which helped us climb the proverbial ladder.
Mary, cows do have teeth, well spotted. How else would they eat grass? Calves don’t have teeth as they rely on milk. Fact is they don’t have piercing incisor teeth that are found in carnivorous creatures, as cows only have bottom teeth and an upper “pad”.

Tim says:

12:58pm | 27/10/09

Celery feels pain too.

shabangabang says:

01:00pm | 27/10/09

Easy solution. We can all convert to cannibalism and eat all the vegetarians. We will get the meat we want, save their water usage, and stop the whinging. Next.

Toddzilla says:

01:01pm | 27/10/09

@Mm - we’ve become top of the food chain because we use of our superior brain capacity - though I will concede your point in respect of yourself.

@intepid - I’ll rewrite your sentence for accuracy. “I’m yet to meet a conservative (conservatives are never reactionary) who reflexively accepts pseudo-scientific propaganda, just because it makes them feel superior to other sinners and aids their goal of returning the world to the centrally-planned communist utopia the Soviets promised”.

@ Kelly - yes, some are fat, sweaty and bloated, but overall a lot healthier.

Al Campbell says:

01:12pm | 27/10/09

I couldn’t care less what the “carbon content” of the food I eat is.  As for becoming a vegetarian In your dreams!

Me says:

01:14pm | 27/10/09

Instead of everyone in the world becoming herbivores, we might want to start looking at alternative sources for our flesh based proteins. 

Like Budz said, “Eat kangaroo, much better for the environment.”

Seriously, beef cattle are not “caged” like chickens, beef cattle is almost always free range.  Also, why are we concerned about beef cattle’s methane emissions?  All bovines, both domestic and wild produce a lot of methane, however, the overall population hasn’t really increased in hundreds of years, just changed locations depending on the genome.  Look at the American Buffalo, it used to cover the plains of the US, literally millions of head covered the plains before European settlers almost wiped them out.  Now the millions number in the 10’s of thousands, where during the time of the buffalo, beef cattle numbered only in the 10’s of thousands, but today number in the millions.

What needs to be done to fix the atmosphere is cut vehicle and manufacturing emissions, find cleaner way’s to do things, and then let nature fix itself.

intepid says:

01:15pm | 27/10/09

@Todzilla
And I’ll rewrite your worldview for accuracy: “word and facts only mean what I choose them to mean, plus it’s fun to be a contrarian dick”

BT says:

01:21pm | 27/10/09

@N
Unfortunately no I am not vegan however I think I will be in the future. You are right, being vegan is even better than vegetarian. I don’t eat any animal at all or wear any leather/fur however I still consume dairy products so I cannot claim to be vegan - although I’m close.

Toddzilla says:

01:37pm | 27/10/09

Gotta love the lefties - both feet firmly planted in the air

Skeptical says:

01:40pm | 27/10/09

Tim I’m with you! I work with a bunch of vegetarians and vegans and my god you can’t even have an office cake without serious tears and tantrums cause some animal product is in the recipe - for god sake we have gone mad!! They are climate campaigners that fly all over this great country and abroad, while beating their drum re the rot that is the climate change argument! The most perfect example I have seen of hypocrosy in a long time!  People, the climate has been changing for centuries and there are proven scientific natural cycles. Sure we can all do our bit to reduce our resource use but can we stop banging on about climate change? Notice how it has changed from global warming to climate change?

Andrea Janssen says:

01:51pm | 27/10/09

beachhouse says:
@ omnivore- yes, we have incisors, but now look at a lion’s incisiors and you’ll realise ours are remnants from way back in time.

To my great shame I have to admit, that I love and eat meat, but I am willing to evolve. Just as the dinosaurs became too dominant, we humans have and are well on the way to extinction if we don’t eveolve. Not much left globally of the environment which has served us so well in the last 10000 years. Especially not at the rate we are multiplying. 

If we humans were really as intelligent as we always see ourselves, we would adapt quickly to new challenges and leave the polemic out. But greedy as we are, we hate giving up what we have achieved for the greater good.

In ‘olden’ times the wise men were highly regarded, in our culture any Joe Blow knows best and doesn’t hesitate to shout it out. Some investigating, reading and observing of what’s happening i.e. along our beach fronts might just open a few eyes. But then that’s expecting too much from most of us, isn’t it?
PS I am ‘beachhouse’, because I always dreamed of owning one, but no more beaches will solve that one!

Steve says:

01:56pm | 27/10/09

If you want a lead on the Buy costal land thing you could follow Al Gores example. He paid $4M for a Fishermans Wharf appartment last year. now if he was sooooo worried about sea level rise why did he buy on the water property? Could it be “listen to what I say but ignore what I do”

Omnivore says:

02:14pm | 27/10/09

@ “Mary says:01:33pm | 27/10/09 Cows have teeth, do they eat meat?”

Lol, good work Mary. My point was not the presence of teeth infers you eat meat, rather the type of teeth infers what you eat.

Cow’s, which are herbivores (which in case you don’t know, means they only eat vegetable matter) have molars, which are teeth designed for grinding and mashing food. Which is perfect if all you are eating is grass.

Carnivores, i.e. lions, wolves etc (which in case you don’t know, means they only eat meat / flesh) have predominantly incisors and canines. Which means thear teath are designed for cutting a tearing flesh of bone.

Humans, which are omnivores (which in case you don’t know, means they eat both meats and vegetables), have a mix of molars, incisors and canines.

So as you can see, we are designed to eat vegetables AND meat, hence my point re: evolution.

AO says:

02:16pm | 27/10/09

So to save the environment for ourselves, we’re going to destroy an entire species? I’m assuming thats the Lord’s gist, seeming as I’m pretty sure if we were just to stop farming cattle, they are still going to be producing offspring AND gas. Not to mention the environmental damage they will do if they are to be left gallavanting around the country. God knows, they might even get into the cities and hold up your morning traffic or defecate on your lawns.

If climate change is the real deal, lets take some responsibility for ourselves and have the balls to go after the big, growth-greedy producers, instead of another species. Geez, if they had been a bit more carnivorous, maybe they would have developed more sophisticated brains and societies and taken issue with this article.

BT says:

02:33pm | 27/10/09

@AO,
No one ever said that it was necessary to eradicate the earth of cows. It is not so much the species but the sheer volume of animals farmed and the production methods to feed increasing populations that are the problem. Meat production causes more carbon emissions than all the worlds transport combined - they ARE the growth-greedy producers, but that’s kept quiet because it is unpopular with industry and the general meat-eating public.

S says:

02:35pm | 27/10/09

I’m Vegetarian… i think I’ts sheer arrogance when meat eaters say wont reduce their meat consumption. Dont be stubborn and unwilling to accept the environment and its limitations.
Live your life and Enjoy everything you want… in moderation and with consideration to others.

Rowdy says:

02:42pm | 27/10/09

@sourabh ....I think it’s sheer arogance to assume you hold the moral high ground and deem all meat eaters arrogant. Not all of us swallow the climate change baloney as easily as you slip tofu down you gullet. Deal with it…What you should have said is “.....if we don’t accept man-made global warming, it’s not that we are stubborn…..it’s just that we aren’t as easily led as you…..

BT says:

02:56pm | 27/10/09

Because changing your habits or educating yourself properly is just too inconvenient, right Rowdy?

Raoul Machal says:

03:05pm | 27/10/09

Gee, so much of Australia was once under the sea, even if the latest expert fab was true, what’s the big deal? Nature is change, change is nature. Adapt and flourish. Within the past 30 years we survived the global cooling, freezing of the earth, melting of the pole ice, the fatal energy crisis, almost certain thermo-nuclear destruction and god-knows-what-else some loony pontificating finger-wagger can come up with. As long as they can make do on generous publicly funded salaries and don’t have to worry about making a real living, they’ll always find something to excite us. If we wanted to look at the real issue on hand, look no further than human population. Reduce it by half and you may have a good start to solve most of our problems. Just which half?

N says:

03:08pm | 27/10/09

BT: Define “Educating yourself properly” please.

Tim says:

03:12pm | 27/10/09

@Sourabh. That is funny, a vegetarian calling others arrogant. Vegetarians as a whole would have to be the most arrogant, self righteous group on the planet. Try eating a steak in front of a vegetarian. It’s like you just killed one of their children and are devouring said child in front of them.

Rowdy says:

03:22pm | 27/10/09

There’s that moral high ground again BT…...more likely in your case, having your habits changed for you and thinking done for you by the Al Gore’s of the world is too convenient…......

Margaret Gray says:

03:34pm | 27/10/09

Gawd, the self-righteous must-do-as-I-do indignation of the plant-eaters is nauseating.

Almost as smug as a Prius owner.

If you choose to live your life as a pasty and pale-grey herbivore good luck to you…but spare me the moral outrage.

The real issue is why there is never a meat-lovers option in a vegetarian restaurant.

David C says:

03:35pm | 27/10/09

Last week we were told to eat our dogs and cats and only keep chickens or sheep. Now we are told to not eat any meat. Anyone else see the stupidity of all this.
The reason for the big push against eating meat probably has more to do with the head of the IPCC being Indian ie cows are sacred??

BT says:

03:44pm | 27/10/09

Yes, heaven forbid I have high morals! Would you prefer I had none at all?You haven’t presented one piece of evidence regarding your opinions Rowdy because let’s face it, you don’t care if climate change exists or not. If you did you would find the overwhelming evidence to suggest that it does - and that would require a drastic change in lifestyle, one that you can’t be bothered to make. That, or your business interests are tied up in selling hamburgers.

Skeptical says:

04:23pm | 27/10/09

It is great to see so much common sense on this topic - well from the carnivores that is, sorry vegos but as one could expect, you are making little sense in your unsubstantiated arguments. Oh and as I previously said re the hypocrisy that stems from the misguided global warming believers, did you know your misguided leader on this topic Al Gore, owns a home that produces a greater carbon footprint than a small nation, and that is just his holiday house as opposed to George Bush’s holiday house that has solar initiatives and is fully un-reliant on external water sources for a start - I rest my case! I would rather fire up the barbie with Tim, Rowdy Toddzilla, James and Nathan, than prattling on anymore with this rot, a least this crew have a grip on reality!! Now a steak with those snags or a chop guys?

Ben says:

04:51pm | 27/10/09

Global warming - pfft - whatever.
The problem is not caused by meat consumption. It is due simply to over-population.
How many people do you honestly believe this planet of ours can sustain? Stop eating meat, use solar power, etc etc to all that rubbish but if our population doubles we will be in big trouble, no matter what programs you hippies put in place.
Halve the population, halve the “global warming problem”.

Problem with this is our capitalist society exists on growth. Halve the population and we’d all be broke. Money rules. Believe the global warming myth you suckers….. it’s all about big business controlling YOUR money.

Glen says:

06:16pm | 27/10/09

Ben is right.  The problem that we have is overpopulation.  Simply put a species will increase in number until it runs out of food or is held in check by preditors.  In our case we have been able to alter the odds for generations but are running out of options.  Insane gov’ts with huge immigration policies (unable to mount an argument better than everyone else is going down but we are going up so that is good - yes I;m talking about you Krudd) arenuying short term gains for themselves by selling off hope for the future.  We should reduce the strain on the planet and also open our options by getting off the panet if we really want to have a long term future as a species.  The way we are going I can only see water wars, land wars, food wars and worst of all religeous wars.  Meat consumption is typical of people no addressing the real issue but wanting to sound and feel good.

Duncan says:

06:27pm | 27/10/09

It would be nice if our public service would provide a framework for solutions rather than just scare-mongering and politicising.

I don’t personally know if AGW is real, or if it is, whether vegetarianism is an effective means for countering it.

So I pay taxes in a vain attempt to have these sort of community issues examined by the public service.

I’m looking for practical solutions from our public servants, not just more bureaucracy and regulation.

I guess that is too much too ask. Pretty sad.

Shane From Melbourne says:

06:56pm | 27/10/09

The Center for Disease Control has the solution to global warming. They just won’t release it…..

danj says:

07:24pm | 27/10/09

If governments were serious about global warming they would ban burning of fossil fuels, but the won’t will they? Everyone is just interested in being seen to do the right thing, no one wants toput their balls on the line, and seriously, becoming vegetarian? What about all the diesel burnt cultivating Vegies and trucking them to Melbourne? And the Chinese are going to have a massive demand for beef as they get richer, try telling them not to eat it.

sourabh says:

08:05pm | 27/10/09

@Tim and @Rowdy… Please dont Misconstrue my comments.. . as I said in my previous comment ..
“Live your life and Enjoy everything you want… in moderation and with consideration to others”  ... This includes non veg food!
I am talking bout instead of always eating meat.. why dont you try something else once a week… giving the impact it has on the environment?
Is it really that difficult? I have friends who have already done this by limiting eating non veg to once a week.. instead of every day.

karl says:

08:32pm | 27/10/09

Nothing to do with climate change.  Coastlines have been forming and dissappearing for millions of years.  But hey, it keeps the CC doomsayers in the media spotlight.

cats says:

10:25pm | 27/10/09

The problem is the world is overpopulated. Old people get drugs pumped into them to make them live longer, and developing nations just keep having babies because no one’s told them about condoms yet. Humans are demanding and ruthless. They will stop at nothing to make their lives more enjoyable, to the detriment of the planet’s water supply, rainforests, and animal populations.

I am not a big believer that humans created Global Warming, I believe its another Ice Age which is being sped up by humans pumping pollution into the atmosphere. However, as it was going to happen anyway, i don’t think thats the issue here.

The issue is that our rainforests and trees and natural habitats for other animals are being anihilated everyday by greedy developers. Most of you don’t seem to care about this because you are all assholes.

Therefore i suggest everyone cutting back on meat to three times a week..

davido says:

12:41am | 28/10/09

But I need the steroids from my chicken? Dont see any wheatgrass packing anabolics lately!

Skorpion says:

02:20am | 28/10/09

So, Tim, Rowdy, Toddzilla, James, Skeptical and Nathan, which parts of the latest IPCC report do you disagree with then?

matty says:

05:58am | 28/10/09

It’s amazing how interest groups will jump on a particular wagon to get their point across. At the moment for the vegetarians that wagon is global warming.

The problem with their argment is that while it may sound good in theory, in practice it’s totally flawed. If everyone in Australia was to become vegetarian, we would need to find more arable land to produce crops, and I’m talking an area greater than the size of Victoria. It would need to be cleared, ploughed, levelled, irrigated, etc. This would be an environmental disaster as most of this country is suited to more pastoral industries, not intensive cropping.

Also it is important to remember that the emissions produced by livestock are different to those from fossil fuels as they are a part of the CO2 cycle.

The next problem is the fact that processed vegetable proteins have a carbon footprint similar to fresh chicken, so there is little benefit to replacing one with the other.. (And by the way, meat chickens are not kept in cages, they are all barn raised or free range and grown in a much more humane way than most people choose to believe.)

OK, I’m off to the steakhouse.

George says:

08:06am | 28/10/09

The science is settled. There is no doubt about it. We have only a few years, if we are lucky to turn back the emissions that will undoubtedly kill us all and change our coast lines for ever. Climate change has already melted possibly 50% of the poles and places like the Maldives are slowly disappearing under the seas. Bangladesh is seriously flooded ever year and we are seeing an unprecedented number of natural disatsters like floods, tsunamis, eathquakes, hurricanes, bad weather. Surely this cannot be a coinincidence and it isn’t.

Emissions cuts suggested by Rudd do not go far enough. We need at least 60% emissions cuts if we are to save the planet and Australia is in the position to do this.  Already I have seen dry tidal estuaries fill with water and floods in northern NSW prove that climate change is happening. Last summer we have tow weeks of incredibly hot and unprecidented weather which led to the tragic victorian bushfires. Can we afford to let this happen again and again and not do anything about it? Climate change has already killed millions around the world and countless others in Australia alone, we can’t afford to watch the sea levels encroach our coastlines or thousands, maybe millions will die.

kell says:

08:50am | 28/10/09

Thank god for people like you BT… I really wish there were more like you, especially after reading this thread!!!

Joel B1 says:

09:03am | 28/10/09

Why do vegetarians insist on shaping/texturing their food like meat? (There’s even an entire branch of Chinese cooking that does just that so novice Buddhist monks wouldn’t all flee after the first month)

Fact is, meat tastes great and is great.

(you don’t see meat-eaters shaping their steaks to look like broccoli do you?)

Toddzilla says:

09:09am | 28/10/09

@ George. So much wrong with your post.

The science is settled.  - Not among actual scientists.

Climate change has already melted possibly 50% of the poles - actually the Antarctic Ice Sheet is at historic highs (more ice than any other time in history) and the Arctic is back up to the long term average,

Places like the Maldives are slowly disappearing under the seas- actually a recent study has found that sea levels in the Maldives have fallen 4cm over the past decade.

Bangladesh is seriously flooded ever year - Bangladesh has been seriously flooded every year for the last million years, so no surprise there

A unprecedented number of natural disatsters like floods, tsunamis, eathquakes, hurricanes, bad weather. - This is just a bald-faced lie. Hurricanes are virtually unheard of in the US since the big one in New Orleans. There was none last season and this season is shaping up the same way. Tsunamis and earthquakes are geological issues (and therefore cannot be included in any comment regarding climate change… unless you’re tremendously unintelligent) Bad weather has always and will always happened.

Consider you arguements a load of tripe of go back to doing whatever it is you do that’s killing your brain cells.

Skorpion says:

09:50am | 28/10/09

Matty,

you have some interesting statements there. Where did you source this information?

I have just been looking at a report by the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/010/a0701e/A0701E07.pdf) which puts the proportion of world greenhouse gases generated by livestock at 18percent. This is a larger proportion than global transport emissions.

This 18 percent breaks down to 9 percent of worldwide carbon dioxide emissions, 37 percent of methane emissions and 67 percent of nitrous oxide emissions (Note that methane and nitrous oxide are much more potent greenhouse gases than CO2).

Macon Paine says:

11:36am | 28/10/09

@ George. Dear oh deary me! So much hysteria so little time!
Surely that was a parody post right? Please dont tell us you were serious?
Toddzilla covered most of your other claims exceptionally. Though you state we need to cut emissions by at least 60%! Ok this will be good. Please enlighten us as to how this will occur as I notice you didn’t offer one example of how this is going to happen. Are we supposed to make it illegal to drive cars at certain times? Gee the wonderfull public transport (thankyou Labor your commitment to equality of public transport for everyone has left eveyone with crappy public transport) in Sydney will cope well with that! Do we shut down our industry almost overnight? Sit around in the dark like those earth hour muppets (yes if you do this you are a muppet no doubt about it)? Perhaps we should all be forced to become vegetarians?
Also how on earth do dry tidal estuaries filling with water and floods in Nth NSW prove climate change? Thats a “non sequitur” if ever i’ve seen one.

@ intepid. Ok two can play at your childish game.
Im yet to meet a raving leffty who doesn’t immediately believe any scientific findings that might require them to think less of themselves.

thatmosis says:

12:47pm | 28/10/09

I think all us meat eaters should join PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals). There is nothing better than rounding up an animal, putting a bullet between its eyes, chopping it up with a chainsaw, hanging it for some time to age and them Bar B Queing a big juicy rump steak, very rare, with mushrooms, eggs, onions and bacon and maybe a little rabbit food as a side dish. Thats the way we should live.

N says:

02:06pm | 28/10/09

Thatmosis: Gold mate. Though I won’t be round your way for a bbq if you butcher with a chainsaw :D

BT says:

02:22pm | 28/10/09

That’s a very good idea, by all means avail yourself of the PETA website and watch the videos of cats and dogs in China being skinned alive - and all the other tortures animals endure on factory farms, I doubt you would be able to stomach it.

thatmosis says:

02:47pm | 28/10/09

Its the only way to cut the carcass up efficiently. Nice clean sharp chain on a clean blade and there are no worries about contamination, quick, clean and effective.
As for China and its ways with cats and dogs, been there seen that and who am I to tell someone else how to run their lives. Its been going on for centuries and its the way its done. They do the same to snakes and frogs but dont they count. Dog is very tasty if its the right season as is snake. If we were meant to be vegies then we wouldnt have canines now would we.

Adam MacLeod says:

02:48pm | 28/10/09

Take it easy folks.  Once we have a suitable carbon tax in place, the free market will be able to take care of the rest. 

We will be taxed for the damage we cause to the environment, no matter how we do it.  The price of meat will go up accordingly.  People will buy smaller portions, and get more creative at using cheaper cuts & offal.

N says:

02:56pm | 28/10/09

BT: What does cats and dogs being skinned alive have anything to do with the primary beef industry? More than happy to take you for a tour of an abattoir, where livestock are killed in quick and simple manner, not hung up on hooks and tortured by workers for some perverse pleasure.

Tim says:

03:10pm | 28/10/09

BT,
I could definitely stomach it, if you get my drift.
What is the difference between eating a dog and eating a cow? Nothing.
If its tasty, i’ll eat it.

BT says:

03:27pm | 28/10/09

Careful Thatmosis, your psychopathology is showing…
@N, if you will read my post again it says ...and all the other tortures animals endure on factory farms…I never said anything about being hung up on hooks or any such nonsense. There is well documented abuses towards animals at all stages of production, not just at slaughter.
@ Tim, try and get your mind away from your stomach pal and follow the bouncing ball….

N says:

03:46pm | 28/10/09

BT: As a son of a primary producer, I am interested in hearing what you portray as “abuses toward animals at all stages of production”. I’m sure I’m not the only one here who would be interested in your interpretation. As its so well documented, would you be so kind as to limit your answer to the context of beef production.

Tim says:

04:11pm | 28/10/09

N,
exactly my point. Abuse is completely subjective.
BT,
i’ve found that most animal liberationists and animal welfare proponents use subjective animal abuse as an excuse to push for their real goal. A complete end to the use of any animal product.
And isn’t it funny that they always use cute and furry animals to push their point?

Franky says:

05:34pm | 28/10/09

To be fair Mary, that is a bit lame.  Yes cows have teeth but teeth alone isn’t the criteria for carnivore.  How close the eyes are is another indicator of prey or predator.

N says:

06:15pm | 28/10/09

Hey Tim, if you want a laugh, take a look at the peta website (http://www.peta.org or http://www.goveg.com). Worst case situations (most criminal) are portrayed as being the norm, sweeping generalisations are rampant. I’d have a lot more respect for veggies if they weren’t fronted by these idiots.

BT says:

07:17pm | 28/10/09

Well this is going to be my last post to this forum because there is clearly no academic merit in it - I mean seriously guys try being a little objective before you start dismissing people’s posts - it does nothing for your credibility. I was a meat eater and made the conscious decision not to be, based on evidence, whereas you both have vested interests (rather deviously left unspoken until 4.46 N). N has business interests, and Tim is seriously concerned about what to eat for dinner (I suggest a light salad to dislodge what must be some serious constipation).
N as you well know the beef industry goes hand in hand with the dairy industry, here’s a little light reading for you - although you know all about veal I’m sure. I’m not about to go digging for other evidence ie peer reviewed articles which do, incidentally exist. I have an assignment due so you’ll have to do your own research.
http://www.voiceless.org.au/The_Issues/Fact_Sheets/Dairy_cows.html
And Tim what are you on about, “always use cute and furry animals to push their point”? What rubbish. Also, abuse is not subjective - it was defined a long time ago.

thatmosis says:

08:53pm | 28/10/09

BT, do you really think the majority of people care about the way in which their meal is delivered to their plate. If you wish to be a vegie then go for it but get off your high horse and smell the roses, most human beings eat meat and will continue to eat it no matter what is published about the way in which they are slaughtered.

matty says:

06:06am | 29/10/09

Skorpion,
I’m aware of the figures in the IPCC report and I’ll accept them, although it’s important to remember that research done by the CSIRO is finding huge variances in ruminant emissions due to different diets. My point was that these emissions are a part of the natural carbon cycle. The plants these animals consume have been sequestering carbon perennially from the atmosphere, some of which is then released back into the atmosphere by grazing.
It’s also important to remember that these are perennial pastures, not annual crops as they would be for vegetable production, and so there is no soil disturbance (which is has it’s own typr of emissions) and the plants are constantly capturing carbon and returning it to the soil, whereas for annual cropping this woul be happening for maybe six months of the year, the rest of the time the soil would be fallow.

chicken.org.au and the MLA website have some interesting links on these subjects.

The other interesting fact that some of you may like to know is that free range chicken produces more emissions than barn raised, so if we are having an environmental debate then the seemingly unpopular “factory farming” method is in fact more sustainable.

C says:

11:02am | 29/10/09

How about we all eat more fish….lots and lots more. Take all that fish body mass out of the oceans and voila…..the sea levels will drop. Genius!

Alex says:

12:55am | 30/10/09

These comments are why I love The Punch.
Tomorrow lets argue about which is better: Cats or Dogs.
No, lets argue about whether we should smack our children or not.

Two conflicting points of view + biased article = comedy gold.

MarK says:

08:19am | 30/10/09

@C we are a lot closer to that than you think,
we should definitely be eating less fish

@ Alex: Dogs are better of course, They taste much better than cats, especially slow grilled over the BBQ

thatmosis says:

11:10am | 31/10/09

Cant eat more fish as we are being denied that priveldge by the Governments who are restricting the amount of fish we catch, where we catch them and what species we do catch. Its getting to the point that if I wanted to take my son fishing I would have to have a Masters Degree in Topography and Ocenography just to find a place that I could throw a line out and then a Degree in Law to work out the laws that govern what type of fish, what type of tackle that I am allowed to use on that day.