The most telling part of the Health debate this week was when a journalist questioned Kevin Rudd about the fact that what was desperately needed (and not in his shiny new plan) was more hospital beds.

Rudd responded in classic bureaucrat-speak, asserting that “the funding that we’ve provided already, the 50% increase in the grants to the hospitals of the States, is the equivalent of 5,750 hospital beds”.

That might be so Mr Rudd, but where’s the evidence that even one actual real bed has been created? Patients can’t sleep on an “equivalent bed” that exists only in the accounting world – they actually need the real thing.

This is a classic example of how bureaucratic aims and actual outcomes are often wildly divergent.

It’s reminiscent of the classic Yes Minister episode where the Minister visits the most efficient hospital in Britain, only to find it has no actual patients. “Yes, but that’s what makes it so efficient Minister” asserts the process-driven public servant.

No one questions the Rudd Government’s ability to create a new policy, and for that policy to be articulated with effective political spin so as to give the impression of a “monumental change”.

No one questions the Rudd Government’s ability to spend taxpayer funds on grandiose ideas. But what should be questioned is their ability to actually deliver real, tangible outcomes that represent value for taxpayer funds.

And no where is that more vital than in our public hospital system.

Rudd’s hospital plan, as far as I can tell, creates a new large bureaucracy and changes the funding mix from 40% Federal, 60% State to a 60% Federal, 40% State mix.  It’s hard to see how this will improve accountability, let alone “end the blame game”.

And while there is not an extra dollar in health funding until 2014 in Rudd’s plan, when the responsibility of increased funding does fall to the Commonwealth, the question must be asked – will we get value for money?

Will we see the desperately needed extra hospital beds, doctors and nurses, or will it be more about political outcomes?

The Australian people have a right to be sceptical about Labor’s ability to deliver.

Who would have thought that a seemingly simple Government program to give away free home insulation could be so mismanaged as to result in 4 deaths, scores of houses catching fire, thousands of homes under safety threat and endless stories of rorting and rip-off?

Speaking of which, the $16 billion funding for school halls is a debacle of growing proportions.  Some estimates predict that the Government will receive only about $7 billion worth of building works for their $16 billion.  Not surprising considering they paid more than 10 times commercial rates for some buildings.

So that’s $9 billion of taxpayers’ money utterly wasted.  Gone.  Ostensibly it’ll be in the ledger as an investment in “Education” – but there is absolutely nothing to show for it.

I wonder how many real hospital beds (as opposed to Mr Rudd’s “equivalent” ones) could have been purchased with that wasted $9 billion.

If Labor can’t run a program to give away free pink batts, and they can’t run a cost-effective program to build school buildings, then why should you trust Labor to deliver a practical over-haul of the public hospital system?

It’s a fair question - one that should be legitimately asked without being met with faux indignation and accusations of “negativity”.

Mr Rudd’s own bureaucrat-speak about “equivalent” hospital beds confirms that he is more interested in what figures can be presented by the bean-counters, rather than the number of patients actually being treated and the quality of the care they receive.

But that’s no surprise – the Rudd Government has been a triumph of spin over substance.  Why should this new “latest, greatest, monumental” policy be any different?

Don’t miss: Get The Punch in your inbox every day

Get The Punch on Facebook

99 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Duk says:

      06:09am | 26/03/10

      Rudd has failed in many ways but he isn’t much of a leader. Mr Abbott sacked Sen. Joyce because he wasn’t pulling his weight. Look at Rudd - Garrett and Roxon are still around even though their policy has actually cost lives!

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      11:44am | 26/03/10

      Duk you are on the money. A wise man realizes when he has made a mistake & changes, a fool won’t admit his mistake & never changes.

    • BobM says:

      04:20pm | 27/03/10

      Rudd doesn’t want to look like he made a wrong decision ever. Hence he won’t change any of his ministers no matter what they do wrong.

    • pelu says:

      09:21am | 28/03/10

      Guys, there is something I don’t understand on this debate about the 4 deaths and house fires. If we are going to make responsible of these things to the ministers who implement schemes; all transport ministers in Australia and the states should be sacked every time an imbecile runs a red light and kills some one or kills him/herself. The red light is to stop, the green light is to go. Most people follow, some don’t. Those people who never follow the guidelines for installing roof insulation, those who might have been poorly trained; those shonky operators who did the wrong thing regardless of the consequences are the ones who should shoulder the blame. Work out the percentage of people involved in this program and the fatalities (one is too many, I know) and then compare the figure to other industries. I work in mining and we have fatalities and we don’t run to sack the minister every time we have a fatality! We look at the personal responsibility, first and foremost and then keep going up the chain. The blame game never gets further than people at the mine! Of course, there are no political connotations in mining so the media doesn’t make much fuzz about it.

    • ZB says:

      01:35pm | 28/03/10

      Pelu,thats why people should get a driver licence before driving a car.

    • persephone says:

      07:13pm | 28/03/10

      ZB: correct. And it’s why installation installers should read the instructions and safety guidelines before sending people up into roofs.

    • persephone says:

      06:40am | 26/03/10

      How many pink batts did the Liberals put in roofs, Sophie?

      How many school halls did they build?

      How many equivalent hospital beds did they provide? (Oh, oh, oh I know the answer to this one—- less than none, because funding to hospitals went backwards under the Liberal government).

      How many doctors and nurses did the Liberals train to staff these beds? (Oh, pick me, pick me - you guys capped the number of doctors because you wanted to keep existing doctors’ incomes up, which now means we have to import doctors from countries which need them more than we do, so that the very doctors who lobbied for the cap can do things like, you know, take the occasional day off…which means that more of these doctors are leaving the system, which means we’re having to import more doctors from countries that really need them…..)

      If the Liberal government couldn’t train enough doctors to meet known future demand, how can we expect a future Liberal government to be able to run a health system?

      What is the Liberal’s policy on health? (What the hell - on anything, really?)

      We can’t judge the Liberals ability to deliver these programs versus Labor’s because your government never really attempted to deliver much at all.

      Even things such as the Apology to the Stolen Generation and the signing of Kyoto, which Liberal supporters describe as ‘easy and popular’ were too hard for you guys.

      And your health policy not only creates more bureacracies than Rudd’s - 762 local boards, each with its own CEO and management team, (which means a salary bill of something in the order of half a million per hospital - minimum - or an overall bill for administration of nearly $400 millin) compared to an estimated 150 networks (we’ll be generous here, and say their admin costs are slightly higher, as their staff would have responsibilities, and cost it at $1 million per network - a total of $150 million, or less than half).

      And the bureaucracy ‘created’ by the Rudd plan is less than a fifth of the size of that proposed by the Liberals.

      Given those (admittedly back of an envelope costings, but hey, sue me) which policy is going to be able to afford to employ the most doctors and nurses, let alone provide hospital beds?
      .

    • Drewboy says:

      07:50am | 26/03/10

      I’m not going to respond to the majority of your party spin, but I will ask you one question Persephone.

      How many houses has the Government burnt down with their ill thought out bats scheme?

    • Mark says:

      08:15am | 26/03/10

      The liberals put in no pink batts and hence did not cause the death of 1 person, they also caused no serious injuries to numerous other workers and also did not spend over 2 billion dollars on a wasteful and rorted policy creating fire and electrical hazards coast to coast.

      Similarly the liberals did not build one overpriced rorted, ripped off, unecessary, plaque filled and wasteful school hall, brand it a revolution (lol) and then spin like mad when the wjole thing to started to go south. Nice story today that the NSW govt has admitted that rorting and overpricing has occurred for the first time. The rats are trying to find high ground me thinks before the storm.

      The libs provided no “equivalent” beds and also do not tell lies about funding levels. Your point is what?

      They aslo do not lie about training and actually do think that when you expand something you need to provide the resources for it to operate. You know, like promising a whole bunch of computers to kiddies to use at schol but not provide the computers as promised which is just as well because the schools are not “wired” (to be succinct) to handle them.

      Given labors small target “me too” statregy at the last election I think it is wise to hold back on full announcements of policy. Come on persephone think political tactics. We are the cunning and evil right over here. We love being sneaky. How many of the liberal policies would be enacted right now if they were out there. Well going on the last election pretty much all of them given Krudds track record on “borrowing” of policy as well as bucket loads of cash so it sort of makes that argument a tad moot don’t you think?

      Kyoto and Sorry? You really want to go there? Well Australia was bettering all the requirements of Kyoto without signing the thing anyway. But I guess if you like flying (omg carbon footprint0 a bevy of government types overseas to sign a “treaty” no one enforces that we were meeting the requirements of anyway a good and “bold” thing, a real game changer, you are deluded. And it’s big brother Copenhagen? That went real well.  Me thinks you should back quietly away form global warmimg and the ETS. Your boss certainly has retreated from the greatest moral challenge of our times. friend of the chair, havent heard that for a while. And little Gracie? One of the most cringeworthy lies I have ever witnessed.

      And Sorry? Well yippee. All those aboriginals that have now found a remarkable improvement in their life by being told we are sorry raise your hand. Peresphone name me 10 of the stolen generation. 10 please. it is a generation after all - go on son. Nice thought. It made us all warm and fuzzy. So what?

      So the liberals have no health policy - lets get this straight “What is the Liberal’s policy on health? (What the hell - on anything, really?)” Your words. But you still go on to cost that non-existent policy and show its “fallacies”. You know the fallacies about the policy that didn’t exist up the page 4 paragraphs or whatever.

      So what is it my confused and befuddled friend? Policy or none? Love the back of the envelope costings. You Labor guys have a doozy on stationery that is made for stamps. $43 billion for an NBN. Well they think. No cost benefit analysis, no business plan, shall we go on? Your figures are made up and meaningless. You know that. Making up facts to fill a void in your argument when it changes in a few paragraphs anyway is not a good technique. In fact it is silly.

      So. Thanks for the comedy piece. Looking forward to the next instalment when we find out if Krudd can win the hand of the fair maiden and we all get to live in utopia once again.

    • Margaret Gray says:

      08:16am | 26/03/10

      How many pink batts did the Liberals put in roofs, Sophie?
      How many school halls did they build?

      Neither of which were necessary as is being amply proven amidst all the rorting and waste.

      How many roof fires did the Liberals start do to poor management?

      How many innocent people died as result of bureacratic bungling and incompetence?

    • james says:

      08:55am | 26/03/10

      Interesting how persi never actually address the issue but just slings mud.

      As for pink batts, you may want to rethink that as a major ALP achievement given the total disaster that the program was. Just how many houses need to be checked to ensure that they are safe?

    • Andrew says:

      09:19am | 26/03/10

      Pers.

      I just can’t understand the purpose of your reply. Who are you trying to convince? What sort of weak and feeble minded fools would you expect to fall for your prattle?

      I don’t think it would be that worthwhile to point out line by line how incredibly wrong and misleading your party political statement is. I do however take umbrage at your ridiculous statement in relation to bureaucracy. The 762 local boards proposed by TA are to be staffed, not with Canberra centralist bureaucrats but with local volunteers. People who have an interest in the local community and feel a civic responsibility. This suggestion has been universally embraced by the medical profession. Your attempt to paint it a a giant bureaucracy is both misleading and disingenuous. Something I more and more come to expect from you.

      Oh, One final point. You can’t attack the Lib’s for not having a health policy and then proceed to call in to question a significant part of their health policy. Do you see the irony?

    • Madeleine says:

      09:44am | 26/03/10

      “We can’t judge the Liberals ability to deliver these programs versus Labor’s because your government never really attempted to deliver much at all.”

      Exactly.

      Come back to us when you have a plan, which includes not cutting back on federal spending on health care, Sophie.

    • Andrew says:

      09:41am | 26/03/10

      How many pink batts did the Liberals put in roofs, Sophie?
      How many school halls did they build?
      How much tax payers money has Rudd wasted achieving this? and is still wasting? Get Real.

    • Philip Crowley says:

      09:49am | 26/03/10

      Persephone… A goddess of the unconscious. Her symbol is the bat and the pomegranate. Unconscious fruit bat. Oddly appropriate.

    • Lulu says:

      10:00am | 26/03/10

      Persephone…I am not young anymore & live in rented accomodation. I had my insulation checked by a reputable compnay who said is didn’t need replacing. It cost me nothing because the company was canvassing our street under Rudds vote buying scheme which was all about giving money & stuff to every voter in the land….which I now think is fraud. Anyhow…..a few weeks after being told that my insulation was OK another group on men came down our street with a trailer load of insulation batts & conned my landlord who speaks very little English into having more batts put into my ceiling over the top of the old ones. Problem is I have down lights. I rang the hotline to get an inspector to check up what this group of men did but was told that Rudd’s inspections were only for people with foil insulation, not batts.  There have been many house fires caused by the batts but Rudd doesn’t care because so far there’s been no deaths so therefore no media outcry. Rudd & Co have given the electorate the impression that all insulation will be checked if asked for but this is just another sleight of hand on his behalf. This fiasco is going to blow up in Rudd’s/Labors face soon but then died in the wool Laborites like you will be there to dry Rudd’s tears & stuff the vicytims.  I dare you to ring the Insulation hotline & 131 792 & find out for yourself just how much Rudd cares about the mess he’s created.

    • Rob says:

      11:54am | 26/03/10

      “Even things such as the Apology to the Stolen Generation and the signing of Kyoto, which Liberal supporters describe as ‘easy and popular…”

      ‘Easy and popular’ should be Rudd’s, Garrett’s, Gillard’s and all the rest of the Wastrel party’s motto.

      It seems, like your namesake, Persephone, you have spent too long in the shadows and not enough time in the real world. Time to wake up.

      How you can support the sheer waste of public money by this government is beyond me. Try concentrating on today’s screw-ups and forget about the past. Howard et al are not responsible for the current government’s policies.

    • annie says:

      12:57pm | 26/03/10

      Mr Crowly sir you crack me up thats so apt and funny

    • Scot says:

      01:33pm | 26/03/10

      persephone, It is the States responsibility with the support of the Federal Government funding to provide these services. And what did we see pore outcomes from the states. NSW and QLD is a disaster area because they have ripped money out of the system. NSW has over $100B of GST money alone and what do we have is many big black holes such as the latest $300M rail fiasco. The list is endless. NSW is becoming a third world state as Labor and the public service have ripped of the tax payer. The unions are ripping $80M in a grab in Victoria out of their own children’s education system building program. Hospitals did work when they had boards, but he consultants destroyed they system with bureaucrat. These same consultants are now advising the HK hospital system. The whole system is a joke, we have people that do not perform or deliver good outcomes, the public service should be ashamed of what they have delivered. How is in Asia they can deliver multi billion dollar long term plans and we cannot even put pink batts in the roof? So god help us for the Rudd labor and the health system?

    • luke09 says:

      01:56pm | 26/03/10

      persephone, how many houses had perfectly good insulation replaced with inferior insulation to support the rorting? How many schools replaced buildings with the same building to support the rorting? How many indigenous australians benefited from Rudd’s populist orientated sorry day apart from himself? How many state governments have run down their health system? How many billion dollars in blowouts does it take to make labor aware of mismanagment? Sure there has been a lot of policy from PM Rudd but there has been a lot of waste and unaccountability. How many labor apologists can accept that the Rudd government has failures? smirk

    • Brendan says:

      05:49pm | 26/03/10

      Pers,
      Here you are again trotting out the ALP press line - who do you work for?
      Your question about the pink bats assumes that in every case it was a good thing! This has not been so. The point is as one who is in the building industry two outcomes were readilly aparent to me (and many others) when the scheme was announced 1. The demand would exceed supply meaning not everyone the Govt counted to get their expenditure would get insulation (i.e. good PR while saving $ over announced amount!) or 2. fly by nighters would come to fill the void. It may have been a good idea but the management of it was appalling!
      How many equivalent beds? Well ask the STATES who got handed a hugh GST windfall and spent it on what??? As you said in response to me the other day - who said the states spent the money on health - where did it go then?
      Lastly - as an ALP cronie (given away by your statement “And your health policy “) you will know that since the creation of Medicare by Hawke & Keating a cap was set on Med School places by the govt to try to prevent the inflationary impact of health by making it hard for patients to see a doctor! Howard and Abbot were responsible for opening many university places to a point where in 2011 there will be too many doctors (in QLD at least) leaving Uni for the STATES to employ (which is required to complete registration). Many speciality colleges through the last decade also tried to get additional training places (Beattie was caught out in a radio interview in Bris) from State Govt’s (again a registration requirement from the states) The Howard Govt provided funding for many “private” training places, and in many cases the colleges obtained places in the UK.

      Pers, who was running the states all the while - the ALP! And in Qld who ran the public service? Rudd - fills us with confidence!

    • steve says:

      06:23pm | 26/03/10

      As usual Pheromone’s comments come straight out of the Sussex St Media watch manual. It is sad, they do not realise they sacrifice any credibility in any debate, dismissed as a party paid political hacks.

      The loonies in Environment Dept proposed the house insulation scheme to Costello when he was Treasurer. He saw the shortcomings when he talked to the industry about the inability to expand to supply or install the scheme and threw it out. CSR had told the ED that the scheme would descend to farce as even if manufacturing run at 24/7 could not keep up with the demand and cheap below spec imports would flood the market. Also there was not enough trained installer to control the standards.
      So how right were they?
      Labour Fools rush in where cool heads would wait.

    • Glen says:

      10:40am | 27/03/10

      I couldn’t believe the errors and bias in this comment until I reailsed that it was written by persephone.

    • persephone says:

      12:56pm | 27/03/10

      Drewboy - none.

      Mark

      The deaths were due to the irresponsiblity of the small business operators, who failed to follow basic safety rules.

      There have only be 16 out of thousands which are suspect.

      The Liberals cut health spending (Abbott admitted it) which means a loss of beds. Rudd has increased health spending, which means extra beds.

      I would have thought that politics is all about what’s best for our country. If I have a good idea and someone else pinches it, but the country overall benefits, then surely that’s still a win?

      Certainly I never complained when Howard ‘stole’ Beazley and Latham’s ideas.

      Kyoto and Copenhagen were very important. We’re facing a global problem, it needs a global solution, we need to be involved globally. With Kyoto, we had the ridiculous situation where Australia negotiated a deal and then refused to ratify it, which scarcely made us look credible internationally.

      The Sorry Day was important to Aboriginal people. I suggest you read the ‘Bringing them Home’ report, which makes it clear why.

      And, yes, you’re right. The Liberals have a four word health policy - local boards, more beds.

      Andrew

      If I’m so gormless and the points I"m making are so stupid, why bother replying then? You’re just giving me oxygen!

      I’ve been a local hospital board member for ten years now, being one of those civic minded volunteers you describe, so I’m pretty sure I know how they work.

      Lulu - the hotline is to determine your level of risk. If you don’t have a risk, then they save the taxpayer’s money and don’t inspect it.

      To cover a couple of points raised by others: The GST replaced a number of State imposed taxes, and for some time at a lesser rate - so it wasn’t a windfall.

      I know nothing about NSW & QLD.

      I have nothing to do with Sussex St.

      I am not a Labor staffer.

    • pelu says:

      09:32am | 28/03/10

      Persephone,
      Wether the other guys did a lot or did nothing when they were in power is not relevant any more. We have to deal with the current government. And the current government has not delivered in some of the promises it made. However, minimising the effect of the Global Financial Crisis in Australia was not a pre-election promise but it had to be tackle head on. They did a brilliant job that is not properly apreciatted exactly because the government saved Australia from it. Now we have to move to those promises that were put on hold and give these guys time to deliver. Simple.

    • mtdd says:

      01:41pm | 28/03/10

      “persephone says:01:56pm | 27/03/10: The Liberals cut health spending (Abbott admitted it) which means a loss of beds.”
      Wrong. Read the Budget papers. Actual spending was not cut. Forward estimates (estimates not committed funds) were reduced on the back on increased funding to move more Australians to private healthcare re the health fund rebate. The overall share of Federal vs State funding did reduce as a percentage but the actual dollars did increase - way in excess of inflation. Besides that State govts also received a massive inflow of GST funds (which Rudd railed against) - yet the hypocrite now wants to use these same GST funds for health. BTW you sound like a mouthpiece. Finally, in 2 years the Rudd govt has built a mere 2 “superclinics” out of the proposed 36 - guess it will take 34 more years to meet that “never never” promise?

    • persephone says:

      07:17pm | 28/03/10

      As Rudd said - they promised $11 billion, they delivered $10 billion, that’s a billion less than they promised.

      And the private health rebate did not decrease the demand on public hospitals, so there were no savings there, so that one bombed big time.

      Which raises the question: How can we trust Abbott to deliver on health when he couldn’t deliver on health?

    • Steve Putnam says:

      08:43pm | 28/03/10

      Spot on Persephone! Suffice to say that the frenzied response to your remarks is eloquent testimony to the fact that your barbs found their marks. Mark, starting with you, the scheme the previous govt had for bringing in foreign workers to supplement shortages that occurred as a result of their ideological neglect of a serious apprenticeship policy caused problems aplenty on building sites around the country. Amongst other things, these foreign workers, finding their power tools had plugs which couldn’t fit into our power points, simply stripped the three strands of wire & inserted them into sockets. Secondly Mark re the sorry to aboriginal Australians. It was of profound importance to them…...do you actually know any blackfellers mate? Let’s see Rob you’re next. Perhaps you could give me your opinion on the $290mill the Howard govt allowed to fall into the lap of one Saddam Hussein? Way beyond any notion of wastage; we were at war with Iraq. It was TREASON pure & simple. Phillip Crowley allusions to the underworld etc from ole no666 himself. Steve my namesake, if the Liberals hadn’t caved into doctors pressure groups we would have had a lot better health service than we have now. Doctors have a vested interest in keeping their numbers down to optimise their fees. Its a known fact within the industry,so whatever claims you make re lack of tradies to install insulation, can be made in other areas and once again the problem wasn’t of Rudds causing. Lastlly , these anti-persephone comments all seem to be clutching at straws; arguments ad-hominum & arguments ad-nauseum about pink bats showing that they can’t handle the fact that the Tories are no longer in power. and that Abbott isn’t going to claw back middle Australia.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:03am | 29/03/10

      I don’t know if Persephone deliberately tries to get people going but she is sure good at it.

      Here is a question I would pose but never expect a proper answer.

      “If Abbott and the liberals were so bad, how does that make Rudd and Labor good?”  Negativity against one party does not somehow diminish the other partys failings.

    • acker says:

      06:42am | 26/03/10

      Sophie there is an excellent opportunity here for the Liberals to propose a 100% Federal Government take over of Health, and employ the senior Victorian and West Australian state bureacrats to run it (the better run state health services).......Your from Wangaratta and should realise that the state border hinders things such as different pay rates and consitions for nurses each side of the border and needless duplications in services. I live in a Riverina town closer to Melbourne than Sydney, and people being sent to hospital in Wagga or Sydney rather than Bendigo or Melbourne causes problems for some families here by moving the patient to a major city where they have no relatives or friends, while just over the border they have a family network. A lot of the time the young people from our community move south over the Victorian border to find work, yet if their parents back home in the Riverina get ill and require hospilization they often get moved the opposite direction.

    • annie says:

      06:42am | 26/03/10

      Your comment:my working life started in 1972, so i have seen a few governments and i struggle to remember one as do nothing or incompetant as the rudd team i even beleive whitlam was better at least he accomplished something. this lot are do nothing but cost a lot of money doing it. And i suspect the biggest disaster is yet to come called the NBN

    • Steve says:

      08:38am | 26/03/10

      Annie I too have been around for the same working cycle. No doubt you seem to mistake positive action in government to negative action in government, or in your words do nothing or incompetent! Whitlam did do some good things and had that visionary aspect of governance that so many seem to lack. The Medicare program that was introduced and welcomed by all until the change of government then from day one the liberals have been trying to destroy it. Fraser government could have done so much and I think Fraser himself did more for the plight of the Aborigines than most too. But it was his treasurer who let him down not only externally but also more so internally. Quote from Treasury papers:-  Mr Howard, the then treasurer, proposed more taxes and less spending. As Treasury papers released in 2007 reveal, Mr Howard wanted to sell up to 13 government businesses in one year to raise revenue, despite the obvious need for more significant reforms to grow government income by expanding the economy: But what Mr Fraser was prepared to do was never going to work - his government ran deficits and passed on an economy in terrible shape to Bob Hawke in 1983. Yes remember the deepest of recessions ever 22% interest rates!! The rest seems to be fairly easy to follow, The reforms of the Hawke/Keating years- floating the currency, overhauling tariffs, liberalising the financial system, managing industrial relations through the Accord and enterprise bargaining – were massive economic changes that transformed our economy. Then that man Johnny again how did we fall for that…. Does anyone still think Costello and friends were the great debt busters after reading the following? Interestingly Labor’s stimulus package comes in at about 1% of the total, enjoy: “Abbott might happily forget that while he and his former government colleagues were steering the good ship Australia, the nation’s total debt soared from a mere $700 billion in 1997 up to $3.2 trillion by the close of their term. An increase of 387%’‘. Deregulation brought growth all right. But there is a yin for every yang. The Opposition may well brag that it left office with zero debt - zero government debt that is - as the upshot of policy was to lump it onto the consumer.” So Annie and your fair minded friends when your building things take time just like Chifley who had a really big idea for the growth of the nation building Australia for a better future. Snowy mountain scheme employed over 100,000 workers… Menzies rode on the coat tails of that just as Howard did after Hawke and Keating.

    • Andrew says:

      09:40am | 26/03/10

      Steve,

      What are you smoking?

      WHitlam, grand vision to bankrupt Australia with pie in the sky socialist spending models. And then you blame the “recession we had to have” on Fraser!

      You quote one line from a treasurer in cabinet papers saying lets spend less and raise more money. Let me give you the tip. If you are broke,you have 3 options to become solvent. Option 1, earn more. Option 2 spend less. Option 3 do both 1 & 2.

      You may think you can rewrite history but at the end of the day, when the smoke clears, maybe you’ll wake up to yourself and see this current mob for what they really are. All spin no substance.

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      11:48am | 26/03/10

      Whitlam springs to mind, no wait, you win, Rudd is far worse than Whitlam.

    • Steve says:

      12:11pm | 26/03/10

      Andrew,

      If you read what was written then you would not say what you just have!

      The recession we had to have was very sound judgement and controlled; meaning it was called from day one and explained not something that just happened by loss of control.. unlike the recession of the Howard era. This came about from the decision to float the dollar, which was cried down from the opposition very loudly. Hard decisions taken by government to build go forward not be conservative… is that option 1&2 from your list looking in another direction?
      The lifting of controls on interest rates caused an orgy of lending, as banks wanted more of the market share. That is what created the recession we had to have! The other way would be like the option you would have chose in the global recession we didn’t have to have… if you can swim good.. if you can’t hold on guys the ride is going to be long and hard!! Then you would be broke and back were you started. But it only created a very, very strong economy… when the smoke cleared…
      But Howard and Costello used that very effectively to run the Hawke and Keating governments down and as I say did the Menzies.

      As for rewriting history and letting the smoke clear… well we still have the national debt of $700 billion in 1997 up to $3.2 trillion by the close of Howard and Costello’s term.

      Here let me give you a tip also… paying down the national debt is not necessary a good idea. If there are profitable investment opportunities that the country can take, then it should go into debt to fund them and get the returns from those investments in the future. Howard and treasurer Peter Costello claims that their economic management skills were superior are misleading. Howard and Costello did a really good job of educating the Australian public to think that the kinds of things they’ve pushed through have been responsible for the boom. They claimed that the surpluses they’ve presided over generated the boom. They’ve argued that paying down Australia’s public debt is very important for the boom. But the budget surplus is a consequence of a strong economy, not the cause of it. The boom did more for John Howard than John Howard did with the Boom.
      But maybe that all spin and no substance!!!

    • Randal says:

      02:17pm | 26/03/10

      I think its time to wake up from your Labor induced fantasy Steve!

    • annie says:

      03:46pm | 26/03/10

      Steve what i remember most from the whitlam years is the anger most people had for him and fear of loosing your job from his reckless management of the economy, the building and retail industrys ground to a halt. i only gave him credit for medicare other than that he was a comlete disaster and left the country in ruin that it took 20 years to recover from. and it makes me so angry when the labor party wheels him out as a grand old statesman

    • Jane says:

      07:55pm | 26/03/10

      My working life started in 1966.

      I remember Whitlam well, he was the final straw for this one time ALP voter.

      Rudd and Whitlam are incomparable.

      Whitlam had charm - Rudds is more of the Cobra variety.

      Whitlam had wide vision - Rudd has tunnel sighted myopic policy to the point where in a match it would be Chief Soaring Eagle vs Mr Magoo.

      The one thing they do have in common is profligacy and a complete inability to consider the consequences of their actions.

      Rudd wins hands down in the profligacy department.

    • Jane says:

      08:02pm | 26/03/10

      Steve:
      You said - “Here let me give you a tip also… paying down the national debt is not necessary a good idea. If there are profitable investment opportunities that the country can take, then it should go into debt to fund them and get the returns from those investments in the future.”

      If that had been the case with this government there would be a lot less squawking but, for crying out loud, Insulation and grossly over-priced temproary School edifices, constructed by hand picked large firms,  DO NOT an investment in or for the future make.

      What makes the situation worse are the millions upon millions the insulation program is going to swallow in reparation.

    • persephone says:

      06:51am | 26/03/10

      Roxon cost lives? Details, please.

      And ripping $1 billion out of health would definitely have cost lives - people who waited too long for treatment in crowded emergency rooms, people who were operated on by shonky doctors, employed because Abbott’s restriction on doctor training places (due to the lobbying of the doctors’ union) meant that hospitals were desperate, and so on.

      We certainly know that Howard’s atttitude to boat people cost lives.

      Yet, with all your concern for humanity, Duk, I’ bet you still voted for the Liberals.

    • KM says:

      07:41am | 26/03/10

      Some people live in a dream world, some live in Reality, some, believe anything a politician says of a certain political persuasion tells them. unfortunately you are one. Ripping $1 billion out of health system is a total lie! Made up by Rudd and co to score political points with voters nothing more period.

    • acker says:

      08:19am | 26/03/10

      And NSW Health spending about $2 Billion per year on non medical administrators and bureacrats is helping save lives ? (20000 Admin Staff mentioned by previous Minister DellaBosca x $100,000 approx mean gross annual cost per unit)

    • Mark says:

      08:20am | 26/03/10

      Details on the 1 billion.

      it is a lie.

      You know it. Repetiton of a lie makes you lazy and pointless.

      Lives lost? See insulation sheme shambles. See explosion on boat people and the increase in lives lost at sea. SIEV 36 (off the top of the head).

      Unfortunately I have real deaths I am looking st caused by policy. You have a lie. You are over reaching on the boat people mate. Shhhh your bosses told you not to mention that. It doesn’t exist. LAWL.

      Yeh gg peresphone.

    • Margaret Gray says:

      08:16am | 26/03/10

      Considering State Labor governments have run most Australian hospitals for the best part of a decade makes your pablum little more than poor party rhetoric.

      But you knew that already.

      Sadly, you can’t even lie properly.

    • Steve says:

      09:04am | 26/03/10

      Persephone, I think you might find..if you actually worked as a doctor is that to become a specialist you need to pass exams via a Royal College of Surgeons or Radiology or what not. You might find that (again if you actually were amongst it) that these Colleges in fact only pass a certain number of people to bring up the salary of current consultants. It’s got nothing to do with lobbying. It’s to do with sense with dealing with these colleges. And in case you don’t quite follow me, yes, it is a mafia-style-protect-our-own type policy they have in place. It is best to have dialogue then none with a set of people who can control so much.

      As has been said before, your $1 Billion claim is a lie and you know it.

      Howard’s attitude stopped people from making the journey. THAT, my friend, saves lives. You ever boated across more than 50km on open water in nothing more than a tinnie? I have, and holy crap it’s dangerous. Stuff being on something that might not actually float. And let’s not talk about these distances. So pretty sure it is the journey that costs people their lives. How many boats have sunk that we don’t hear about? Good thing our border protection is on the job, pity that they have to be on such high alert with the Rudd policy on boat people though.

      So persephone, stop trolling. You are bad at it. Look at basic facts and then put them together with how society works. Not with how you would like it to work.

    • James says:

      09:07am | 26/03/10

      And ripping $1 billion out of health

      That old lie, or actually, mistruth again…

    • Andrew says:

      09:52am | 26/03/10

      Wow Pers, you are desperate today. Not making much sense. Big night? Or just bereft of any real content?

      I must admit I find this whole article very funny because Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister were 2 of my favourite shows. I have often thought Rudd was very much like Sir Humphrey (without Humphrey’s wit or character).

      I wonder how many “equivalent” beds it takes to treat a real patient or undertake real surgery. LOL, maybe we should have equivalent patients, nurses and doctors. Rudd would be funny if he wasn’t so scary. One term wonder.

    • George says:

      12:46pm | 26/03/10

      “And ripping $1 billion out of health would definitely have cost lives - persephone 07:51am | 26/03/10”

      Where is the hard evidence to support this allegation. Even KRudd, CRoxon, Jules & Co. could not produce it, certainly Hansard has no record that Tony Abbott ripped $1 billion out of health during his tenure and certainly no hard eveidence that that act if it were true has cost lives.

      Instead KRudd and his spin machine relied on 2003-04 Budget papers to back his billion dollar ripoff charge.

      Unlike Batt Gate where it clearly shows that it directly caused four deaths, 93 house fires and left an estimated 1000 roofs electrified.

      Post your proof here by link or get one of your minions in your office to source it then post it here so all of us who are convinced that KRudd is simply spinning this out of his bum (and you are sucking it all) may be corrected.

    • Chris L says:

      10:15am | 27/03/10

      Well, I don’t plan to vote Labor again this year (nor Liberal), but I do feel the need to raise a point. If we’re going to blame Rudd for the insulation deaths (caused by shoddy business owners) then let’s blame Howard for Dr Patel.

    • persephone says:

      01:05pm | 27/03/10

      Abbott himself admitted during the debate that there had been less money delivered to the States than had been promised by the Feds.

      Which means that the States had to do the job of delivering health services with less money.

      And yes, the figures come from forward estimates in the Howard/Costello budget - are you saying H&C were fibbing?

    • Glen says:

      11:27am | 28/03/10

      persephone: Abbott did not rip $1 billion out of health, that is an enormous labor lie that you are spreading maliciously.  Telling lies is something that you, your mates krudd and his cronies did not learn when you were children.  Maybe that explains the many disasterous actions they have taken since they lied their way into power.

    • persephone says:

      12:28pm | 28/03/10

      If you promise something and don’t deliver it, that’s a broken promise by anyone’s standards.

      Abbott - and he admitted this during the debate - promised the States $11 billion and delivered $10 billion.

      He also, after the 2004 election, had to admit that he couldn’t deliver on his ‘rolled gold’ promise that the Medicare safety net wouldn’t be changed.

      The man has form.

    • T.Chong says:

      07:03am | 26/03/10

      LNP supporters - wheres Barnaby ?
      So many here were in raptures that a new Joh like character had arisen. So what happened ?

    • Mark says:

      08:18am | 26/03/10

      Going to be off around the country side in marginal seats having a chat about the ETS amongst other things. You know stuff that scares swinging voters. Bring that to their attention.

      Should be interesting.

      Good man. Real asset. Abbott showed courage and good leadership. No hubris on our side.

      Have a nice weekend.

    • T.Chong says:

      08:39am | 26/03/10

      No hubris on the LNP side? thats a friday funny.
      Anyway cheers for the weekend. Lifes too short (see atheistism article) to gnash teeth and tear asunder garments about pollies on either side

    • Mark says:

      10:25am | 26/03/10

      Which artcle T sorry?

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      11:57am | 26/03/10

      Tony realized his mistake & flicked him, Rudd sees cock-ups by Garrett & Roxon, does nothing. Tony wins

    • Binglebee says:

      07:42am | 26/03/10

      You sent Barnaby down the gurgler, just like the many Liberals before him.
      Abbott can’t be believed, he says one thing and then does the other. This is just another example. Agression and undecidedness seem to be the current oppositions catch cry. You mock and you belittle but have no policy yourselves. In my opinion you used Barnaby to get The Nationals vote, just like you will try to use N.S.W and Queensland. Be very careful, not all of us as naive as Barnaby

    • Daryl says:

      01:26pm | 26/03/10

      Well if you swallowed Fuelwatch, Grocerywatch, No child shall live without a laptop, Education Revolutions, the $900 bribe, the ETS and it’s effect on electricity prices, the broadband billions, “I’ll turn the boats around”, sorry day, 2020 and now the health plan, and voted for this mess, then perhaps you ARE naive Binglebee. And what happened to the “read my lips L.A.W. tax cuts I was supposed to get? Where is “Rollback”. “No child shall live in poverty”, quick roll out Rex Connor and Khemlani! It’s Time It’s Time.

    • acker says:

      09:22am | 26/03/10

      Honestly it is a bit rich having a dig at Barnaby for having a go and not succeding when Peter Garrett is still on the Labor Front Bench.
      Labor -1 v Lib/Nats -1 ...both sides scored own goals. Greens/Family First near the match leader Xenophon on Zero.

    • KM says:

      09:42am | 26/03/10

      persephone
      How many pink batts did the Liberals put in roofs?
      How many houses burnt to the ground as a result? Many people died as a result of Rudd, rushed scheme. This incompetent mob has a duty of care when implementing a scheme that rushes massive amounts of money out the door. This labor government has just walked away begrudging cutting garret. But and leaving companies sitting on millions of dollars of stock! Rudd solution! We will throw more of taxpayer’s money at it.
      How many school halls did they build?
      How much rorting & over charging has there been? 200 grand for a double carport with seats?? What a joke… But that’s ok its only taxpayers money.
      How many doctors and nurses did the Liberals train to staff these beds?
      How many has labor trained? The buck stops with me he declares! What a tosser. Cast you mind back to your beloved PM Paul Ketting who left us with a 96 billion dept plus a deep recession this clown said we had to have! The libs paid off that dept and then built a massive surplus. Now labor is back in two years later they have spent the lot! and we are back in massive dept, so I wouldn’t lecture about what labor has done they have a record to forget.

    • Andrew says:

      09:58am | 26/03/10

      Whilst it is a record to forget, we should make sure we keep reminding people. Labor depend on the elctorate having a short memory for their failures. They replace the leader and hope everyone forgets the party stuffed up not just the leader (see NSW and QLD).

    • persephone says:

      01:22pm | 27/03/10

      Er, Andrew, given the revolving door which is the Liberal party leadership at the moment, I don’t think I’d use that line.

      KM, Liberals are always telling us we should trust business. We should get out of their way, cut the red tape, stop government interference (let alone letting big tough unionists have a look in!)

      But when businesses fail with one of their basic responsibilities, the health and safety of their workforce, all of a sudden it’s the government’s fault.

      How much rorting of school halls? Not much. You’ve got to remember, these are not ordinary buildings.

      For a start, no school hall I know of is used just as a school hall. It’s usually a sports stadium, a concert space, a theatre, and so on. It contains storerooms, changerooms, showers and toilets.

      It’s also a facility for the rest of the town - in many cases, the only building capable of holding large numbers of people. So it’s the emergency shelter as well.

      And, coming from a community which has been trying to get a school hall for over forty years, it has to last.

      So the building costs of such a building have to be, by definition, far higher than those for your average house or tin shed.

      Labor has already provided extra training places for doctors and nurses, and has committed to providing even more in the future.

      Keating didn’t leave us with a recession - when he lost government, we were well and truly out of it.

    • julain thomas says:

      09:55am | 26/03/10

      its the burecrats that provide the staff ratios, beds etc, the government is only responsible to provide the cash, get over your self sophie, are you the new breed “liberal” party communist??

    • julain thomas says:

      09:59am | 26/03/10

      to all the (H)cowards fanboys look up his family’s relationship with carpenter’s plantation company, the oz taxpayer sponsored his upbringing, he is a hypocrit, denying people basic things whilst on the payroll gravy train from day one

    • Mark says:

      10:07am | 26/03/10

      I am a fanboy.

      Now what do you want to discuss? The connection with your post and Sophies piece is a bit obtuse for me to get my head around.

    • Anthony says:

      10:26am | 26/03/10

      It amazed med that rudd suddenly realises his plan will lead to rural hospital closures. You would think that after two years of consultation this would have been pointed out to him. Anyone who read his proposal and knows health would see this. Now he admits it and decides that it may need to be changed. Yet he won the debate. Not a good reflection on abbott or rudd. Also why wasn’t there more funding for medical student places? Answer because howard already did that. Once again poor form for abbott. I hope you give him a dressing down Sophie.

    • persephone says:

      01:26pm | 27/03/10

      Rudd did say in his original speech that rural and regional hospitals would be funded differently - I was surprised that people saw the debate comment as a shift.

      And there is more funding for medical student places - Rudd has provided an extra 175 and has committed to more in the future.

    • Steph says:

      10:54am | 26/03/10

      Thanks for the article Sophie. Nice reading, but really, I’m not interested anymore.

      I’m your average typical swinging voter who hasn’t made their mind up as yet. What I would like to see from you guys is a policy countering the Rudd one. What do you guys plan? Until then, how can you hope to win the election?

      Your old boss (Howard) was really good at the fear campaign, but nobody can really buy it from Abbott. Anyway the population has been desensitized to this type of exposure.

      I hope you come up with a good game plan soon, or your time in opposition may last longer tan what you want.

    • Mark says:

      12:25pm | 26/03/10

      Why soon? Why now?

      Can they enact it? Can they enable it?

      They will have the policy out before you need to cast your vote. Just because someone flashes something shiny in front of you doesn’t mean you need an alernative now. Just remember Krudds scheme doesn’t add a dollar to health funding until 2014. So it is sytem as usual for anther 4 years with an eventual funding change mix from 60 - 40 state to fed to 40-60.

      If you can wait for the goodness from Krudd I reckon you should be happy to wait for a bit for the alternative.

      All this rush rush and white noise of Krudd is his usual tactic. Why do you HAVE to do something immediately? It is his fallback all the time. Wanting to be seen to be doing something becasue actually nothing is happening. Sometimes doing nothing is good right now. Have a closer look at the shiny being offered and then tell me why you need the alternative now. Plenty of time for it to be debated.

    • Dasher says:

      01:11pm | 26/03/10

      What about a game plan of stop the shameful waste of taxpayers money Steph, would that win your vote? I mean look at the record, Fuelwatch - fail, grocerychoice (election promise abandoned), pink bats, burnt surplus and massive defecit, school scheme rorts, no child shall live without a laptop fiasco, unemployment up, interest rates up, ETS to raise electricity prices, $900 bribes with no capital work to show for it, National Broadband $40billion black hole, 2020 photo opportunity, reduction in family benefits, removal of tax incentives for people to save for their retirement, $450K a year jobs for the boys. How many more failures are you prepared to accept before you change your vote??

    • Randal says:

      02:26pm | 26/03/10

      It is my suspicion that anyone who declares themselves as a “swing voter” is in general anything but.

      Thanks Steph for confirming this theory.

    • Kelly says:

      11:19am | 26/03/10

      Good lord, wont Liberal party offices be very unproductive today with all their lackeys banging away furiously on their keyboards posting comments on thepunch.

      Libs, listen up! Your team lost the debate. You can bitch and moan all you like about ... lies!!! pink batts !!!! ...biased worms!!!

      How about you suck it up, put down the tissues and damn well pull it together to get organised at being an effective opposition. Kevin Rudd is getting away with mediocrity because his opposition look and act like a pack of high school losers in suits.

      Sort it out and start serving the people of Australia because we are getting nothing with a do-nothing oppositon making a clumsy government look like the lesser of two evils.

    • Mark says:

      12:30pm | 26/03/10

      Seems to me all the fuss and “action” of Labor is because Tony has them spooked.

      Sounds effective to me.

      I would have thought exposing the waste and human cost of the batt scheme was serving the Australian public. As is exposing the fraudulent practices inherent in the BER. As with querying an immigration policy that has thousands risking their lives and paying criminals huge sums of money.

      There is just a few.

      Not sure what else you want to be honest. Kevin popularity is on the same trend line as the big O’s. Seems like it is happening. /shrug

    • Tom says:

      03:08pm | 26/03/10

      You don’t get it Kelly. Australia lost the debate.

    • TC: says:

      05:09pm | 26/03/10

      Why do you have to be so negative?

    • Bruce says:

      05:48pm | 26/03/10

      Seriously Kelly, Had Kevin Rudd “lost the debate” do you really think that would have turned people away from voting for him. Or, if Kevin Rudd lost the next debate will that change your mind? Voters will hear what they want to hear.

    • Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

      11:59am | 26/03/10

      Julian Thomas I suggest you go back to tobacco, the stuff you are on is waaaaaaaaay to strong for you.

    • Dasher says:

      12:59pm | 26/03/10

      Hmm, lets debate Fuelwatch (oops fail). Or perhaps Grocerychoice (remember that election pronise - Fail). Or perhaps we should debate Workchoices, Oh wait a minute unemployment has gone up from the 3.6% Labor started with - oops. Ok lets debate “I’ll turn the boats around” - oh hang on, illegal immigration is up. Interest rates? - nah they’ve gone up too. Umm, home insulation? - nah people died and it’s costing taxpayers billions to fix. What about “fighting the inflation Genie”? -  but power prices are set to soar on the back of the government’s ETS. School halls then? - nah Labor backed builders with their noses in the trough. OK the $900 bribe - nah burnt the surplus the previous government left us and we’ve no capital work to show for it. I know, lets debate the broadband network - no still not delivered and a $40+ billion black hole for the taxpaer and a $450K a year job for Rudd’s mate. Sorry Day? - sorry but no improvement in indigenous living standards out of that one. 2020 summit? - lots spent but nothing delivered. What about Health? - that’s it we haven’t started anything yet, lets debate Health.

    • pelu says:

      10:11am | 28/03/10

      Dasher mate, there is relativity in everything we do. All you say may be right or not. I have my opinion that may agree or not with yours. However, I remember Johnnie saying at times “a good leader listen to the people and changes his/her policies and that is good” and then, when he didn’t agree with what people was saying, the line was “a strong leader makes decisions even when they are not popular”. So, all politicians work the same way. I am prepared to give this mob 2 or 3 terms to see what they can deliver. After all Johnnie had 12 years, so, fair is fair. All politicians try to do the best they know how. At times they deliver better than at others. That’s life.

    • persephone says:

      12:40pm | 28/03/10

      No, the debate topic was Abbott’s choice.

    • haha says:

      01:25pm | 26/03/10

      Why is it that the Liebour hacks have to produce war and peace comments to try and defend their ill-informed indoctriated diatribe. All talk, no action.

    • Keith says:

      02:14pm | 26/03/10

      Government is not a team. It is a loose confederation of warring tribes.
      Any unwelcome initiative from a minister can be delayed until after the next election by the public service 12-stage delaying process:
      1. Informal discussions
      2. Draft proposal
      3. Preliminary study
      4. Discussion document
      5. In-depth study
      6. Revised proposal
      7. Policy statement
      8. Strategy proposal
      9. Discussion of strategy
      10. Implementation plan circulated
      11. Revised implementation plans
      12. Cabinet agreement.

    • Margaret Gray says:

      02:46pm | 26/03/10

      The normally ubiquitous Persephone has gone uncharacteristically quiet after numerous commenters above pointed out the gaping holes in ‘her’ party manifesto and endless adherence to the prescribed talking points.

      I suspect ‘she’ will claim to be too busy preparing for Earth Hour to respond to their demands for clarification.

    • Madeleine says:

      04:14pm | 26/03/10

      Why are she and her in inverted commas?

    • AnneM says:

      06:47am | 27/03/10

      Because she is a he.  And I like Philip Crowley’s (at:10:49am | 26/03/10) definition ad new aka: ‘Persephone… A goddess of the unconscious. Her symbol is the bat and the pomegranate. Unconscious fruit bat. Oddly appropriate’.

    • persephone says:

      01:25pm | 27/03/10

      Sorry, no, I’ve been working. Busy week.

      And I don’t ‘do’ Earth Hour.

      And I don’t know why Margaret is determined not to accept that I’m female.

      Unfortunately, this site does not give me scope to prove it.

    • Randal says:

      02:46pm | 26/03/10

      Well written Sophie and yet again you have exposed a government that uses nothing more than smoke and mirrors to mislead the community that they are actually doing anything.

      Trumpeting another ALP ‘do nothing’ policy which merely seeks to split the health bureaucracy between the States and the Commonwealth and if anything makes the ‘blame game’ even simpler, I can hear it now on waiting lists and emergency department delays:

      State Health Minister
      “Well it is the Commonwealth that is responsible for the funding, this is an issue for the Federal Health Minister…”

      Federal Health Minister
      “Well it is the State’s that are responsible for the administration and running of the hospitals, this is an issue for the State Health Minister…”

      Sound familiar… Same crap system with the same funding levels, Zero new doctors, Zero new nurses, Zero new facilities, Zero new beds and Zero new dollars for at least four years and then any increased in funding will be to patch the system… Just as it is now.

      This health plan is simply nothing dressed up as reform, and nothing more than a reallocation of the same expenditure. Tricked up and delivered by our very own political version of David Copperfield, that great illusionist himself, KRudd.

    • Bruce says:

      05:13pm | 26/03/10

      Agree Sophie. However, at the end of the day Kevin Rudd is a politician, nothing more, no better no worse, than politicians on both sides of political divide. A politicians job is to make a bitter pill taste sweet. A number of our apologists become a little over emotive when dealing with political issues, we all know it just a game, but some do not.

    • Jane says:

      08:22pm | 26/03/10

      After watching the explosions (border security), fireworks (insulation program), fizzers (Fuelwatch, Grocery Watch, Whale rhetoric) and thudders (grossly overpriced jerry built BER) I have real concerns about the survival of our frail and doddering health system after Kevin and the motley crew are finished with it.

      Good luck Sophie, you’ll be poring over a lot of fine print trying to sort this fine mess they’ve landed us in.

    • cybacaT says:

      10:12pm | 26/03/10

      Sophie - you are so right.  I just cannot believe how gullible or uninformed the public appears to be.  Each time I wonder how anyone could possibly fall again - for the 83rf time - for a major warm and fuzzy announcement or promise from Rudd?  He hasn’t even tried to deliver most of his promises.  Those few that he has…he’s completely messed up.

      I remember Howard being panned and ridiculed for delivering 98% of his promises, but failing on a couple.  Rudd’s got the figures the other way around, but is such an awesome salesman that some idiots still believe it when he throws out grandiose promises.

      Perhaps Australians are the slowest learners in the world?

    • Steve says:

      09:31pm | 27/03/10

      Judging by your comment you appear to have proved your own point. There is no free independent press in this country, they are singing from the Liberal hymn book, and unfortunately the majority of the posters here appear to be happy to swallow it intact and without question. All one sees in the press whether online or in hard copy are button-pressing sensationalist (and frequently inaccurate or misleading) punchy headlines intended to create an irrational response - and here you all are - responding as expected. Why oh why is it so hard to find independent thinkers - who are able to keep an open mind and discuss matters under the assumption that the press have an agenda of their own and therefore should not be entirely trusted? It is strange that so many posters here are adamant that struggling working Australians should be punished at all costs. The fact is that for many many ordinary hard working people (and by ordinary I do not mean those with boats, houses and high salaries) the ability to have insulation may mean a saving in their extortionate power bills of a considerable amount over time. For those of them who have no access to air conditioning, the insulation they might otherwise not have will afford them a little comfort in the scant few hours they spend not working. I know of many people who work a 70 to 80 hour working week for 7 or 8 dollars an hour from which they must then pay tax and GST. These people provide a valuable public service and are generally maligned in the press. I know of cleaners and other people dedicated to doing nasty jobs which none of you will consider, sometimes holding down 2 or 3 jobs just to get by. Why is there such a hate-filled howling chorus opposing any attempts to improve the quality of life for these hard working people, who carry the nation on the back of their hard work?

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:26am | 29/03/10

      Steve you sound very independedent with your ideas. You can not have an opinion and be independent reality unfortunately is a hard mistress. What job pays below $10 an hour because besides juniors I have yet to see an award anywhere near you rediculous statement.

      The government buying the populace insulation for thier house has to be the worse way possible to reduce electricity prices. Particularly as you suggest if they dont use air conditioning anyway how exactly will they reduce cooling cost?

    • rob says:

      04:03am | 27/03/10

      persephone says:    What labor party branch do you work for? Please enlighten us?

    • persephone says:

      01:33pm | 27/03/10

      What do my personal details have to do with anything?

      I don’t work for a labor party branch.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:35am | 29/03/10

      How can you so blindly ignore thier failures and trumpet thier successes? What do you gain by being so politcaly biased.

      Disclaimer: I would probably consider myself a liberal voter (as oppossed to a supporter)

    • Robert Scott says:

      12:18pm | 27/03/10

      The question was asked; the question was answered, but so called ‘journalists’ failed to follow up because they have become so sycophantic that they simply are not doing their jobs. Not all Australians could be in the press room and most Australians rely on what we see on TV, hear on radio or read in newspapers to be informed and to form our opinions. Failure by reporters to follow up on answers similar to this Rudd double speak is a betrayal of all Australians by reporters too interested in being on the inside. Australians must now just see how government changes affect them; how much more they pay for basic services; how our health system lets our families suffer and die; and how we see our lifestyle disappearing. A lack of reliable information from the media will not stop Australians realising how we are being let down by this Rudd government, just force the public to treat them as unreliable, self interested annoyances.

    • thepagepounder says:

      06:52pm | 27/03/10

      Sorry Mark you got it wroong the Liberals brought in deregulation thats why the cowboys are running around and people dead.
      You got it now mate!

    • acotrel says:

      07:29am | 28/03/10

      Eric Abetz - shadow minister for workplace relations. What an appalling decision by Abbott? It is a message about things to come!

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @bencubby: This Estonian chap is a bit of a superstar (has anyone ever said that before?) #SBSeurovision

Daniel Piotrowski

@MelanieTait I was thinking the same thing!

Malcolm Farr

@AndrewCatsaras Agreed. Kills more people than AIDS. Yet tolerated. Meanwhile: Good Insiders piece again Andrew.

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @JamieTravers: I'm in Europe and don't care for Eurovision, why is my twitter feed filled with Aussies recounting the bloody thing!?

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter