Are you feeling left right out of the political debate in Australia?

Massive fail: Rudd's ETS tweet was a sledge on every undecided Australian.

As the parliament prepares to consider the Rudd Government’s ETS and the global bureaucracy invades Copenhagen, I’m getting a little tired of the forced and clichéd polarisation of the climate change and other important debates, such as border protection.

The straw that broke the camel’s back was on Friday when #KRudd tweeted the world at 6.54pm saying “Time for the “do nothing” climate change skeptics (sic) to stop playing roulette with our kids future. KRudd.” It was one tweet too many. Seriously, what a silly and juvenile thing for a PM to say.

The vast majority of Australians are neither climate change zealots or sceptics and I don’t think they take kindly to having their genuine reservations about the Government’s ETS being caricatured by the PM in such a demeaning and polarising way.

When you’re a leader of a nation, it’s not your job to insult the populace, unless of course you happen to be in North Korea.

The vast majority of Australians are reasonable, pragmatic, sensitive people who care about nothing more than the future of their children and their communities. If a Prime Minister cannot assume that about the people of this country, simply because they disagree with him, then that reflects on him, not them.

But the PM is not the only one unable to see this debate in anything other than extreme terms.

If you, like me, are not sold that Mr Rudd’s ETS is the greatest environmental initiative since creation, then you’re a dangerous sceptic, who wants to rob our children of their future and torch the planet.

However, if you also think, as I do, that we need to give the planet the benefit of the doubt, then you’re hypnotised by the climate change cult, you don’t think anyone should have a job and you’re probably about to book a passage in the North Atlantic to scream obscenities at an oil tanker.

Australians hold sensible, practical and principled views that span a broad range of positions, without resorting, in most cases, to the extremes of the debate.

The great danger of the approach being pursued by the Prime Minister is that it disengages and marginalises Australians from the most important questions in this debate – i.e.  what is each one of us prepared to do and risk in our own behaviour and decisions,  in response to the environmental and economic legacy entrusted to us for future generations?

These are the questions that challenge me most and the ones we most need to wrestle with.

So sorry #KRudd, I will not be bullied by your cheap twitter rhetoric. I will not allow my good faith on the environment to become a blank cheque for the flawed measures you have proposed in your ETS. I’ll be looking closely at the deal that comes back from the negotiations, and make a considered decision then. Regardless of what you think, my kids will always know that I always put their interests first.

The mindless polarisation of commentary and debate is also true on border protection.

The tendency to overdramatise and falsely moralise this debates by commentators and participants alike is unhelpful. It fails to reflect the far greater majority of modest, reasoned good faith contributions taking place. No wonder the Australian public gets tired of politics, when our debates are encouraged and allowed to be mis-represented in this way.

If you think as I do, that we need to take a strong position on border protection, then you’re cast as heartless racist who derives some form of sick pleasure from vilifying asylum seekers, and are seeking to bring out the worst in Australians with dog whistle politics.

It is also inconceivable that such a position can be reconciled with a sympathetic view on the plight of more than 9 million refugees around the world, looking for their chance at freedom. The fact I wish to place the rights of a child in the Sudan or on the Thai Burma border on at least the same level as one whose parents are about to be taken advantage of, by placing her on a leaky boat to Australia, doesn’t cut it.

By the same token, those strongly express sympathy in this debate for people seeking asylum in Australia and their treatment in our care are appallingly demonised as sponsors of global terrorism, as if they spend every other Thursday evening at their ‘cell’ meeting planning our demise, before going bowling as a ‘cover’.

Of course none of this Is true. At the end of the day, this issue is all about whether a policy has failed or succeeded, and that is how this Government will be judged.

Mr Rudd’s actions to unwind a series of measures from the previous government has led to a disproportionate decline in the perception of risk of those desperate to come to this country, and those vile enough to take advantage of them. We are now perceived to be a softer target.

It’s the humpty dumpty syndrome.

While Humpty Dumpty (representing the combination measures created over time and in response to particular events and inherited by the Rudd Government) sat on the wall, there was an impression established that it was unwise to risk a journey to Australia. The boats stopped coming. With the change in policy there have been consequences. Humpty Dumpty has had a great fall, and all of Mr Rudd’s horses and all of Mr Rudd’s men cannot put humpty together again – and the boats keep coming.

This is a problem for Mr Rudd to fix – if you break it, you fix it.

The Coalition’s record and resolve is clear. With access to the authority of Government and the information that comes with it, Malcolm Turnbull would rebuild, over time, the strong borders the Coalition left for the Rudd Labor Government.

90 comments

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    • John A Neve says:

      05:08am | 09/11/09

      Scott,
      I am afraid you, your fellow politicians and the bulk of the media have to take responsibility for this situation. There is far more to environmetal degradation than warming or cooling.

      Both you and the media, have reduced a serious debate to ice caps melting or my swimming pool freezing over,

      Coal, motor cars and melting ice caps are only a very, very small part of environmental change.

      Try giving the people real facts, on what we are all doing to our global home.

    • Solar says:

      06:25am | 09/11/09

      Is Rudd keen on climate change because he cares about Australia or because he wants to be Al Gore 2 and set himself up foe a UN job when he and his government are done for? Is the ETS a tax that will be more money collected to be wasted? If not can they guarantee that?

    • Fergus says:

      06:40am | 09/11/09

      Whinge, whinge, whinge.

      I tend to agree, but if Mr. Morrison abhors the situation so much, then maybe he should go out and do something about it…instead of just rambling away on the net.

    • persephone says:

      06:53am | 09/11/09

      Er- what’s wrong with Rudd’s tweet?

      The polls show consistently that the vast majority of Australians are climate change believers (to quote from Glen Milne’s article today ‘more people believe in climate change than believe in God’) who want the government’s ETS passed.

      If you and your party continue to ignore the clear will of Australians on this issue, playing obstructionist games for the sake of it, than you are the ones being silly and juvenile.

    • iansand says:

      07:14am | 09/11/09

      What does this mean? “However, if you also think, as I do, that we need to give the planet the benefit of the doubt…”  Does it mean we should do nothing and hope she’ll be right?

    • Sherlock says:

      07:31am | 09/11/09

      This has been a Rudd tactic since day one. You’re either in full agreement with his policy or you’re pure evil. He spins that there is no other possible solution. It’s a ridiculous thing to say but it works for the stupid.

      I’m a climate change sceptic and I aware of many others and the ranks are growing daily. However I’ve never met a climate change sceptic who’s in favour of doing nothing. Personally, despite my belief that renewable energy is presently only one step away from being completely useless, I’m a big supporter of our government funding extensive research and development in these areas. Let’s be the country that does make them work.

      There are plenty of other areas where cuts in greenhouse emissions can be made without entering into a costly do nothing ETS that will cost every Australian citizen thousands of dollars per year.

    • shabangabang says:

      07:35am | 09/11/09

      How is airing an opinion piece on a web page (The Punch) different from Rudd having an online opinion (Twitter)? Sounds hypocritical to me. How about having an alternative policy rather than a chip on your shoulder.

    • Joel B1 says:

      07:37am | 09/11/09

      “Time for the “do nothing” climate change skeptics (sic) to stop playing roulette with our kids future. KRudd.”

      What an arrogant, ignorant and self-interested person we have for our PM.

      Rudd epitomises “Born-again, I"m right, you’re all wrong, because I have seen the light”.

      Rudd has no background in any of these issues, he’s a blow-in on the biggest band-wagon.

      Rudd’s a lousy PM.

    • rod sexton says:

      07:48am | 09/11/09

      Rudd is using his position as Australia’s PM as a stepping stone to an international appointment. He is a phoney.

    • Robert Stockdill says:

      07:55am | 09/11/09

      Perfectly put, Scott! I am not a climate change sceptic - but the last thing we need is a monetarisation of an environmental problem. We need to focus on achieving real changes, not creating a giant trading system where people make a profit from people bidding for the right to create carbon emissions, resulting in every person in Australia being lumped with massive tax increases - and a whole group of new companies populating Sydney CBD office towers clipping the ticket on the way through.

      Alas, most of the people leaving comments above appear to have missed the whole point of Scott’s comments - and as for doing something about the problem: that’s exactly why he wrote the column, to create some sensible discussion at last.  (And no, I don’t know and have never met the columnist)

    • Patrick says:

      07:59am | 09/11/09

      Sorry Scott, but regardless of motive, Rudd’s words in that speech where entirely correct. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence that the climate sceptics can base their positions on, and any they claim to base their position on have time and time again been proven to be fraudulent. Their scepiticism comes down to mere opinion and political bias about science and intellectuals.

      These conspiracy theorists and partisan hack newspaper trollumnists got the blasting they deserved. Their scepiticism is not based in reality, rather in some fantasy world of left wing conspiracy theories.

      So how about answering Rudd and telling us, why should your personal political prejudices triumph over scientific evidence?

    • Scott Morrison MP says:

      08:21am | 09/11/09

      Glad the debate is kicking off early. I’m on the road today. So if you want to tweet your response as well, I can see it there @scottmorrisonmp

    • Joel B1 says:

      08:25am | 09/11/09

      Now, you can go ahead and NOT read that report and simply attack the credibility of the several scientists etc.
      PS How’d you like the bit re “Celebrities” and the paragraph 5.59 with your friend Rupert Murdoch getting a run and saying “I’m no scientist but…”
      That’s the AGW Climate Change Believers Camp for you, don’t hear you quoting Murdoch much though…

    • Bella says:

      08:35am | 09/11/09

      It’s all too obvious, HELLO!  Rudd is trying to cause a stir over something rather than asylum seekers at the moment. He’s worried about his polling, and his popularity as usual. 14 interviews in row about nothing, and now using strong language and beating his chest about climate change deniers. It’s more like look over here everyone, take the focus away from the asylum seeker issue because it ain’t doing him any good in the polls. Anything Kevin Rudd does in the media always has something to do with trying to increase his popularity, no matter how far in front he already is. There are records still to be broken. Longest honeymoon of any PM in history for instance. It has nothing to do with whats best for the country, it’s all to with whats best for Kev and his polls and his record breaking polls I would sugest. Give me Johny anyday!

    • Regina says:

      08:50am | 09/11/09

      Rudd is all about tactics, when ever he does anything I always wonder whats the tactic here. I find it very hard to believe anything he says is what he genuinely believes, I feel it’s all to do with spin and popualrity.

    • Harris says:

      08:58am | 09/11/09

      Yes this shows Kevie really is tough. LOL that should do it…...........

    • Macca says:

      09:10am | 09/11/09

      @Patrick. You’ve completely missed the point of the article. Mr Morrison is claiming that our PMs divisive attitude to Climate Change is detrimental to Australia finding an appropriate solution to climate change.

      And I agree with him.

      The debate is not about whether you believe in climate change or not (you have arrogantly made this much clear yourself), but rather, how Australia should tackle climate change.

      Australia’s individual geographic concerns and reliance on particular industries which provide the backbone of our increadibly strong economy means we face challenges that no other nation has had to deal with in the climate change debate.

      So, rather than pidgeon holing people Patrick, just like our PM, why don’t you add something constructive to the debate about how Australia is going to overcome our reliance on carbon, rather than calling all those who disagree sceptics. In other words, grow up and stop being an infant.

      My suggestion, (and I secretly hope this makes your blood boil), lets start looking at Nuclear Power. I think it seems rather hypocritical of a government that is happy to mine Uranium and sell it off overseas, but considers it too dangerous to use here.

      How does that fit with your global climate solution?

    • Steve says:

      09:33am | 09/11/09

      Here is some very wise and rational thinking on nuclear from Barry Brooks, Professor of Climate Research at Adelaide University.  If just those countries that have already used nuclear reactors to generate electricity, did so for all their electricity generation, we’d have a 68% reduction in CO2 emissions.  If that extended to countries that have previously (or will soon) used nuclear for electricity, we’d have 84% reduction in CO2 emission.  If climate change is the “great moral imperative of our time”, why are we not looking at these sorts of facts and figures and even discussing this option? Is the ALP objection to nuclear more binding than dangerous climate change? Reducing our CO2 level by *just* 68% without adding to nuclear proliferation, wouldn’t that be a target worth striving for?  Shouldn’t this type of rational thinking be being encouraged?  I encourage you all to have a read of http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/11/06/carbon-emissions-nuclear-capable-countries for the full details and then click around and see what other insights Professor Brooks has.

    • Liz says:

      09:45am | 09/11/09

      This is another reason Twitter is ultimately boring.So you reckon Turnbull’s the answer,which world are you living in? Perhpas you hadn’t noticed that Humpty Dumpty has now been rewritten by caring parents who like happy endings.

    • Frank says:

      09:49am | 09/11/09

      Scott,

      “Silly and Juvenile”, perhaps you might be considered an authority on these two attributes, especially the latter.
      Still, aside from this maybe the PM is taking the moralistic high ground, but aren’t you guilty of the same thing?  You paint yourself and the opposition as the downtrodden martyrs, who are cast as pariahs for standing up for the real truth.  To add to this you try to include the whole population in your martyrdom.  In reality the opposition is a divided group of people who have no stance or policies other than to oppose.  It was obvious from the start that you would oppose any measures for climate change.  Regardless of your negotiations, this bill will be defeated in the upper house because Barnaby and his cohorts, and your colleagues in the Senate will vote it down and all this talk about “I’ll be looking closely at the deal that comes back from the negotiations, and make a considered decision then.” is simply meaningless talk. 
      Whilst the CPRS may not be perfect, maybe you should remember that “oak trees from little acorns grow”.  Sometimes little steps are needed to get you started on the road to the future.  Finally, there has to be a crisis to instill real change and a financial penalty is probably the only one that business will take notice of.

    • Dean says:

      09:53am | 09/11/09

      I agree with you, that @Krudd in this case acted in an adversarial way that is not constructive… however…

      I think that the majority of Australian’s want action on climate change they are not skeptics nor mostly neutral your article implies. This is backed up by plenty of polls and research. By far the majority view in the science community is that climate change is reality and that humans are a significant contributor to it. The full extent of climate change is a little uncertain.

      The SMH editorial today makes some interesting points… http://bit.ly/7Ttbg


      What I want from our political reps is a consensus, collegiate approach to governance. I also want our political reps to remember they represent the people… and not to be significantly influenced by self-interested ‘corporate’ lobbying. The government is for the benefit of the people…

      I personally, do not think the ETS is the best solution… those who pollute should pay. I don’t like offsets, nor ‘clean’ coal… pollution is pollution. The objective is to stop it. I would simply tax industries that pollute, and I am willing to pay the increased prices if that is what it takes. However, an ETS is better than nothing…

    • Mick says:

      10:05am | 09/11/09

      Turnbull is the answer, there’s no one else and Kevin has to go! Kevin has beaten Turnbull for the arrogance title, now he has taken over as a weak Leader, now we just need to wait for his party to start fractioning behind him and yes, Turnbull is the answer.

    • Budz says:

      10:13am | 09/11/09

      Isn’t this type of comment similar to the famous Bush line of “you are either with us or against us” line regarding the “terrorists”?

    • Carl Palmer says:

      10:17am | 09/11/09

      Where does one start. Our politicians from both persuasions have taken a position which they believe reflect what people “believe”.  The AGW or “Climate Change” is a case in point. Yet not ONE person that I talk to “**understands**” the debate. If you ask me the question, I’ll give you two different answers. Oh and don’t say the Nuclear word because ALL of Canberra ducks for cover and disappears. Credibility?

      Do our politicians – from both sides have a responsibility to inform and to educate the electorate? Or is it a case of peddling one’s own agenda. 

      The PM line to stop “playing roulette with our kids future” plays on one’s emotions. Do we all want the best for our kids future – a unanimous YES. If you ask HOW, then that requires some debate, information and god forbid knowledge.

      As far as this is convened, I’m not insulted. No not at all. This PM is loosing his credibility FAST and what’s more for all to see.

      The boat people issue is a little different. We can see, feel touch it and what the government has done thus far isn’t good and isn’t working. As above, do we agree with the current “stand off” – a unanimous NO, the question is HOW it should be handled. Not only do they need to deal with the current situation but they also need to dispatch the “right” message to all and sundry. That is domestically and internationally and the government is struggling. Why? Because we have NO effective leadership. The same can also be said of the opposition.

    • Jay says:

      10:35am | 09/11/09

      Rudd is so full of himself, all talk no action. Hey man whats going on? Why are you running an ineffective government? Just getting Rudd out at the next election will send a very clear message to the next government - provide effective results or out you go.

    • Neil says:

      10:47am | 09/11/09

      When Kevin Rudd won the last election I was running around singing his praises. Now all he’s done is make me look like a fool, thanks alot Mr Rudd!

    • Patrick says:

      11:27am | 09/11/09

      Macca says:10:10am

      I do not believe I have missed the point of this article, but I do wonder if you missed Morrison’s spin as it was sneaking past you. I also wonder whether or not you heard or read Rudd’s speech, you can read it at the link at the bottom of my post if not. In it, those he attacked where.

      1. The climate change sceptics who contest, based on no verifyable scientific evidence, that climate change is happening at all. These include the conspiracy theorists, those who hail the anti Gore Ian Pilmer as their messiah etc etc.

      2. Those who pay lip service to the climate science but then oppose all practical measures proposed to deal with it.

      3. Those who believe that other countries should act before their own country acts.

      Now, you cannot tell me that Rudd, by attacking groups 1 and 2, is stiffling debate about how Australia should tackle climate change. Those he attacked are those whose rhetoric is detrimental to finding a solution to climate change, in that they do not believe it is happening at all, or that they simply refuse to contribute to the debatet hemselves about how to solve the issue and block all attempts for the government to act.

      There is no point bringing these two groups into the debate. What would they contribute on how best to solve climate science? Their positions on climate change and their illogical and irrational belief in their own intuitions over that of the scientific consensus would make it a useless affair to try and debate logically with them. We would not allow conspiracy theorists and superstitious nutters whose beliefs are not based on any evidence at all into a rational debate about anything else, why do it with climate change?  The only thing to do with these groups is to call them out for their lies and smash the influence they wield with their poisonous words.

      On group 3 if we assume for a minute that those who fall into this category A) actually do accept the science and are not just paying lip service to it, B) Actually do want to find a solution to climate change and C) are not merely playing this card for political purposes, then you have a point, it is not a smart idea to marginilize a side of a debate with valid opinions. On that however, I am with Rudd that generally those in category 3 do not pass point A, B and C and thus should be shouted down with groups 1 and 2.

      Nuclear power I wont get into lest my comment become a novelization, but suffice to say, yes, I do support the use of nuclear power to tackle climate change if it is A) completely safe and B) actually effective.

    • Super D says:

      11:46am | 09/11/09

      I’m agains Rudd’s policy because his ETS is just absolutely crap.  It will only line the pockets of bankers and do absolutely nothing for the environment - which may or may not need any help anyway, time will tell how settled the science really is, just saying it doesn’t make it so.

    • David C says:

      11:50am | 09/11/09

      Patrick the issue is this ..  dont you have a problem with the Prime Minister of our country stifling debate, calling people names and trying to trash our democratic right to freedom of speech?

    • Patrick says:

      12:03pm | 09/11/09

      David C,

      I am not quite aware of anybody trying to trash your right to freedom of speech. Tell me, have you been arrested recently for stating your opinion? Have you noticed any legislation creeping through parliament to stop people stating their opinions? In fact, have you ever tried to state your opinion and faced legal repurcussions for doing so?

      I’m going to guess that you havn’t. Understand that when you state your own opinion, when somebody argues against that opinion, that is not a supression of your freedom of speech, that is merely somebody arguing their own point against you. You are free to say what you like about whatever you like, barring defamation, slander, incitement to violence etc etc.

      If you want to say “rape is good!” then you are free to go ahead and do so, just expect a barrage of criticism from those opposed to such a viewpoint.

    • Brad Coward says:

      12:07pm | 09/11/09

      The Twitter tweeter is a twat !

    • David C says:

      12:19pm | 09/11/09

      I dont have a problem when some like yourself says it on a website, I am just stating that I have a problem when the Prime Minister says it.
      Its this bullying, emotiinal bullying at that, by the head of state that i take issue.with. Whats next?
      Rudd is just msking this more political than it already is.

    • SM says:

      12:22pm | 09/11/09

      Imagine the abuse the “staffer” would have copped for the spelling mistake…

    • Heléna says:

      12:41pm | 09/11/09

      @SM Kevin Rudd has said that any tweets he himself sends will have krudd written after them - I’m sure he is lining up a staffer to take the blame though ;p

    • Susan says:

      12:45pm | 09/11/09

      I’ve given up reading most of your columns because I find them too party-political and therefore not as informative as they could be, but just to note one thing: skeptic isn’t a typo, both “sk” and “sc” are broadly considered acceptable. However “sk” is becoming increasingly the more common.

      @SM: The quoted tweet was written by Rudd himself - When signed of “KRudd” it is the PM, some sort of “TeamPM” signature is used for a staffer. He’s long been honest about the fact that he doesn’t do them all himself and it’s only fair to distinguish. Turnbull has admitted not all are him but does not yet discriminate, it would be good to see as it gives the politicians less scope to backtrack when it was clearly them.

    • Patrick says:

      12:51pm | 09/11/09

      Maybe David C.

      But if I can try my hand at some spin myself, you could say it is not so much bullying, but rather self defence. The PM has attacked the people, generally and in some cases specifically, who have been relentlesly attacking him and his government, and attacking the science of climate change over and over in an attempt to stall his agenda and that of governments trying to act on climate change the world over. Certainly those people have often used some colourful language themselves to describe the PM and others.

      I suppose it is really just a point of view. Rudd does have a foul temper and in some cases his outbursts are totally uncalled for, but on this, I don’t think he is out of order.

    • M Cooke says:

      12:51pm | 09/11/09

      Google 2GB ,and listen to Alan Jones interview with Lord Monckton on ETS extra tax scam, very interesting.Rudd you bad DUD , worst Government in living memory.

    • Briggsy says:

      12:51pm | 09/11/09

      Get stuck into him Scott - use the new mej-a - maybe do a Hilter spoof video on youtube - whoops the Libs have already used up that idea on themselves!

    • Ian says:

      01:02pm | 09/11/09

      The difficulty I have with the Prime minister’s speech as that it is too simplistic.  It forgets that there are plenty who agree that climate change is a significant issue who however have significant doubts that there is a significant anthropogenic element.  It is here that climate science is weak and it is in this area that scientists from other disciplines raise the most doubt.
      The speech was political and partisan and simply aimed at denigrating anyone that does not support the proposed ETS.  Unfortunately Mr Rudd does not like dissent in the ranks and attempts to quash it in any way he can.

    • Macca says:

      01:06pm | 09/11/09

      @Patrick

      Scort’s article was about the divisive nature of the debate.

      The current government is very good at this. If you are against the BER you hate children. If you oppose the CPRS you are a climate change sceptic.

      It’s nonsense. Whilst I don’t agree with him, the treatment of Ian Plimer has been abhorrent. He contributed to a debate, against the grain of common thought, based on his own scientific findings and has been socially alienated for it.

      The emotion of the current debate is completely counter productive and we need to look no further than our PM for it’s source. This presents a great opportunity for our leaders to show a bit of creative reform, and instead they call each others names over the Internet.

      I don’t fit any of your categories unfortunately patrick. And as for nuclear power, let’s go talk to the French and Germans. That’d give us a real debate

    • David C says:

      01:21pm | 09/11/09

      Patrick it seems we are getting closer to an understanding. I’ll try and reframe. I dont agree with your point of view on this but I will fight to the end your right to have it (sounds cliche I know but I do mean it). I dont want you to stop posting or even agree with me, I just want you to respect my right to have my opinion/view.
      Now when you have the PM teling dissenters to “shut up” that scares me, I believe the head of our democracy should be encoruaging democracy not trying to shut it down.
      Clearer?

    • H says:

      01:22pm | 09/11/09

      It is twitter isn’t it? I mean I thought the point of Twitter was so you could post simple meaningless efforts along the lines of “Going to the toilet” or “In an elevator next to a celebrity”. You know….a waste of bandwith.

      The PM (or anyone else’s for that matter) Twitter posts don’t really deserve our attention. Lets focus on what he says in his articles, speeches ect.

      Or the Opposition could camaign on making stict rules for question time so that it actually became a useful institution again (regardless of who is in govt)-that would catch my attention

    • Chase Stevens says:

      01:22pm | 09/11/09

      The boats didn’t stop coming >>

    • Jane says:

      01:28pm | 09/11/09

      The boats did stop coming - just because Kevin won’t tell you that, doesn’t mean they didn’t stop.

    • Shaun says:

      01:38pm | 09/11/09

      I remember a certain now-leader of the Opposition backstabbing Howard at the last election, by telling the media he believed something had to be done on Climate Change. Oh how times have changed!

      Rudd can’t seem to do anything right by your books, first he wasn’t tweeting enough, or on ‘real’ issues (you lot had a whinge when he said he was eating lunch!). And now it’s too much. Make up your minds.

      http://www.wetpapernews.com

    • Diamantina Dick says:

      01:42pm | 09/11/09

      ‘more people believe in climate change than believe in God’

      Does that mean those who do not believe in God wrong or right?

      What people believe is easily manipulated, particularly if your reseach funding depends on it!

    • Beryl L says:

      01:47pm | 09/11/09

      Shaun, your right about one thing. as you said, Rudd can’t seem to do anything right.

    • Patrick says:

      01:50pm | 09/11/09

      Macca.

      The nature of the topic in question is inherently divisive, much in the same way that moral issues such as abortion are inherently divisive. It is divisive in most countries around the world.. It has been a divisive issue for the past 30 years, long before Rudd was Prime Minister of Australia. I find it somewhat of a long bow to pinpoint Rudd as the cause of its divisive and emotional nature.

      I do not see anything divisive about shouting down those who resort to conspiracy theories, fraudulent “science” and deliberate dishonest, and importantly, utterly baseless fearmongering. These lots are not contributing to the debate. Their absence will not be felt or missed in any debates on ways to tackle climate change. I see you didn’t actually make a counter to my arguments about the sceptics however, and instead went down a vague avenue of attack about emotion and divisiveness.

      And I am sorry, but your interpretation of the governments contention being that “If you are against the BER you hate children.” and “If you oppose the CPRS you are a climate change sceptic.” are merely strawmen you have conjured up yourself for you to knock down as “nonsense”

      You may not belong to any of the mentioned groups, 1, 2 3 or A, B or C. That’s fine, if you aren’t in those categories then you aren’t under attack, by Rudd or myself or anyone else that I can think of.

      Do you really think we need to invite Lord “climate change is a leftist conspiracy theory to impose world government” Monckton, Janet “ditto the above” Albrechsten, Andrew “climate change is all about scientists trying to get more funding” Bolt and Piers “Co2 cannot be found in the atmosphere” Ackerman, to name just a few generic climate sceptics, into a debate about “how to solve climate change”? Or do we shout down their crap for what it is?

    • Kazza says:

      01:53pm | 09/11/09

      Rudd doesn’t seem to be able to do anything, never mind right or wrong. He’s too scared he might make a wrong choice and take a dip in the polls.

    • Patrick says:

      02:15pm | 09/11/09

      Jane, if the boats stopped comming, why where there refugees being sent to Nauru? Where did they come from hmmmn?

      David C, I agree entirely! except for one thing. Did Rudd ever tell the climate sceptics to “shut up”?  Or rather, did he ever say “the climate sceptics should be prevented from stating their point of view”? and proposed that they be forced to keep their opinions to themselves?

      No, he didn’t.

      The essence of his speech was essentially “I disagree with climate sceptics are wrong because bla bla bla etc etc”

      Again, arguing against them is not stopping them from saying what they like.

      Your fears for freedom of speech vis a vis Rudd are a worthy concern, but an unfounded one.

    • Peter T says:

      02:24pm | 09/11/09

      Patrick, it was because of Nauru and Manus Island that they then stopped comming you fool, check your facts mate.

    • Bruce says:

      02:26pm | 09/11/09

      Rudds statement is just a “big girls”. “Oi daresya, da!” type comment. (Sorry its my best effort at a “Kim” type response). The moment you question Rudd he goes “girly” on us. “Kevin !!” there are other points of view. You are only the Prime Minister, not an expert.

    • John A Neve says:

      02:45pm | 09/11/09

      “Are you feeling left right out of the political debate in Australia”?  That was the question.
      Based on most of the posts here, no one read or understood the question.
      We just got a repeat of the polarised political claptrap. The army’s of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, once again do battle. No wonder this countries close to stuffed.

    • Patrick says:

      02:49pm | 09/11/09

      Actually Peter, I have checked my facts. I wonder if you have?

      You know what the pacific solution did don’t you?  Simply put it redefined parts of Australia as not Australia. Boats intercepted in Australian waters where intercepted, and diverted to Nauru and Manus to be processed there, and because of this they did not count towards Australia’s statistics about the number of Asylum seekers arriving by boat . That isn’t conspiracy, that is a factual statement about what the specific solution did, you merely have to look at the legislation to figure out that much.

      Oh yes, boats kept heading to Australia, and those that whern’t sent to the pacific to be processed where simply turned around and escorted out of Australian waters back to Indeonesia. Less then in 2001 yes, but consistent with the trend in the rest of the world which also registered a surge in asylum seekers that year and a decline in the years following.

    • Patrick says:

      02:54pm | 09/11/09

      And you have capped it of nicely J A Neve, with the obligatory post from the person who feels the need to post and inform everybody how far above the petty debates of the chattering masses they are.

    • Kieron Smith says:

      02:57pm | 09/11/09

      John A Neve - and is that all you have to contribute, apart from your first post which says nothing, just another whinge.

    • iansand says:

      03:06pm | 09/11/09

      A tweet is 140 characters.  So much room for nuanced debate.  I didn’t think politics could get any worse than communication by sound bite, but it has.

    • SteveB says:

      03:09pm | 09/11/09

      A politician pulling out the “What about the children?” card?

      A politician “unable to see this debate in anything other than extreme terms”?

      A politician who forgets “Australians hold sensible, practical and principled views that span a broad range of positions, without resorting, in most cases, to the extremes of the debate.”?

      Mr Morrison as someone who recently dropped this pearl on “The Punch” because someone didn’t agree with your position.

      “If you want to support parents showing their kids porn, then leave the laws as they are.”

      You really should try living by your own advice sir. 

      “The tendency to overdramatise and falsely moralise this debates by commentators and participants alike is unhelpful. It fails to reflect the far greater majority of modest, reasoned good faith contributions taking place. No wonder the Australian public gets tired of politics, when our debates are encouraged and allowed to be mis-represented in this way.”

      You can then add to that how often politicains are blatently hypocritical in crying foul when their opponents use tactics that they themselves have used and you can start to see the rest of the reason why Politicians are considered less honest and trustworthy than used car salesmen (sorry salespersons).

    • John A Neve says:

      03:22pm | 09/11/09

      Kieron Smith @ 1557hrs.

      Plaes tell, what constructive points have been made today in answer to the question?
      Yours certainly was very constructive, was it?

    • Andrew says:

      04:00pm | 09/11/09

      Surprised you didn’t also mention stimulus and GFC responses. Turnbull proposed a deposit insurance scheme, Rudd copied the UK with an UNCAPPED one and anyone who disagreed wanted every bank in the country to collapse. Except it was a horrible mistake and he cut it to $1m after a month of market disaster.

      Then the stimulus. Turnbull proposed $25bn, Krudd proposed $200bn (the projected debt to be racked up between now and 2016 when we return to surplus). But 1c less and you’re a Thatcherite who wants his predicted 10% unemployment to come true. And when his incompetent Treasurer finally figures out we’re NOT in recession, he’s too proud to back away from his idiotic high debt, high inflation policy that will destroy the economy.

    • Russ says:

      04:04pm | 09/11/09

      So Scott, you would feel much better if the PM spent millions on an advertising campaign on TV (maybe featuring “Unchain My Heart” as its theme) rather than sending out tweets?  Have you bothered to inform yourself about climate change, or are you simply adopting a do-nothing attitude because that’s easiest?  Your party has an opportunity to influence the ETS if you can make a positive contribution, but at the moment most of your party are simply being intransigent.

    • Sam says:

      04:19pm | 09/11/09

      Can someone please explain how the ETS is going to reduce the amount of Co2 produced? From my understanding the ETS is a tax on the companies procuding Co2. So they can produce as much Co2 as they want as long as they pay for it. I fail to see how this helps the environment. Did mother nature loose out due to the GFC and is now strapped for cash?

    • thom says:

      04:33pm | 09/11/09

      I think he was referring to the Opposition, not the general population….zzzzz

    • Glen says:

      05:40pm | 09/11/09

      For all of you who vehemently oppose the ETS as I do, Senator Barnaby Joyce has launched an online petition against the ETS.  The following is a link to it http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/

    • iansand says:

      05:43pm | 09/11/09

      Sam - Scarce resource becomes more expensive.  Eventually it becomes cheaper to reduce emissions than to buy permits.  If I was designing it the number of permits available would be reduced every year, but I bet the gummint wimps on that.

      It is a thig called market forces.  I’m sure you are in favour of them.

    • Sean says:

      06:26pm | 09/11/09

      ““Time for the “do nothing” climate change skeptics”

      Well, you obviously identify with that, Scott.

      How about you do SOMETHING and stop playing roulette?

      BACKFIRED.

      I am a do-something climate change skeptic, but, dude, this Blog is a Troll!

    • Mitch says:

      08:09pm | 09/11/09

      Call me simple, but as opposed to wasting so much time and effort on this stupid ETS, why can we not just do something like say, invest in renewable energy? Whether climate change is real or not, if we invest in renewable energy, we don’t have to rely on resources that are running out such as coal to provide power, and we could even export it for cash to make the economists happy.

    • Joe says:

      10:04pm | 09/11/09

      Rudd is lke a teenage egomaniac with all his twittering. He needs to get a spine and stand for something and not just be poll driven! A bit like Richo’s ‘Whatever it tekas’, Rudd will be known as the ‘Whatever they want to hear’ PM.

    • Steeve says:

      12:53am | 10/11/09

      Scott,.. Feeling a bit cold and Lonely in the opposition backbenches?
      Get used to it you clown.
      Hows about doing something positive like getting on board and supporting the ETS instead of wasting my taxpayer dollars?
      No can’t have that now can we

      Don’t go thumping on about morality whe you belong to the party that IS morally bankrupt…Scott = Troll

    • Anthony says:

      03:11am | 10/11/09

      Good article Scott. The mindless polarisation of commentary and debate on these issues is quite silly with Kevin Rudd being the main culprit.

    • Voxpop says:

      07:33am | 10/11/09

      I agree with Thom that Rudd was reffering to the opposition and not the general public.  I also wouldn’t trust anything that Scott writes - he misrepresents so many issues people are right to call him a troll.

    • Jan says:

      02:12pm | 10/11/09

      Wake up Australia.
      The climate is changing wery fast , too fast, but Opposition and many uneducated people and people who have buisness in it, dont want any changes.
      If they could they would carry on as the good old days,poluting,grubing money from all sides and “dont worry mate, she’ll be allright”.

      Thanks to them we are now facing problem with climate change.

      And the farmers one would think they wuld care about the climate and earth, no, as always, all they worry about is their on, how much money they can make. It is all greed, if they could they would happly inslave Aborginees to work for them for nothig as they did before.
      At least Europe is doing something forword, and making huge changes in the lifestales and they live much better then we do.

      No wonder former PM called Australia"ass of the world”.
      Look into the future, start thinking about your children and grandchildren.
      If your parents were so selfish you would not be here.
      If you dont want to do anything stay back, get drunk and let others do what is needed.
      If you are counting on Liberals and Nationals to look after Australia, wrong,
      all they worry is how much money is in the bank.
      Blind, deaf and short vision. And not to forget egoistic.
      If Chirchill waited for others to do something about Hitler, You all would be speaking Japanise and German by now, if you you were alive at all.

      Those who love and care about life, Australia and the world will speak up and will do anything to save us as the ANZACs did in past.

    • Pat says:

      03:31pm | 10/11/09

      Jan regarding the climate changing too fast…prove it with facts and not airy fairy projections programmed by boffins subsidized by government grants ....

    • Jan says:

      05:49pm | 10/11/09

      Pat.
      You prove it, also can you bet your childern future and lives that it not changing due to our intrfirence and deforestation and POLUTION.

      Hope that more heatwaves and droughts, fires, floods, salenity might teach you a lesson.
      In case it is not changing I dont mind to have a fresh and clean air.
      Why it is so hard to do something good for a change.

    • Jason says:

      06:49pm | 10/11/09

      I’m highly skeptical of the influence of man on climate change.  Evidence shows we as a global population have previously endured similar changes, and will in the future, and we had no control of it.  That said - pollution is really bad news for all of us, in our air and water, and not to mention electro-magnetic pollution and it’s making us dumb (eg flouride), giving us cancer (everything else) and killing us off.  Reduce pollution sure - but give up on the climate idea puny humans.

      However the thing which concerns me greatly is that all the discussion is around the extra cost of the ETS rather than it’s benefits.  If the Rudd government could guarantee all funds collected via emissions taxing would be spent on creating renewable energy sources and super efficient distribution systems, then I would sign up tomorrow - but Mr Rudd still doesn’t offer any real substance to his rhetoric, and it will just be another tax to make up the stimulus shortfall.

    • Jennie says:

      08:10am | 11/11/09

      Rudd, never mind trying to take the focus off the mess you have with asylum seekers and get these people off our boat! If you don’t take them to Christmas Island soon, your going to have an even bigger problem when they start to suicide! Get them to Christmas Iskand you idiiot and change your non existent Border Protection Policy, and get the message out loud and clear you have changed your policy back! You are going to have people die soon. What a fool of a PM, have the guts to do something! Doing nothing is causing more problems and causing more attention to the issue.

    • KeIThY says:

      12:32pm | 11/11/09

      Scepticism is what science is made of but trying to mix scepticism with criticism of Rudd in general loses credibility and shows that the sceptics themselves are split!

      ....bring it on metrosexuals: you’re all just too girly armed to throw mud!

    • haggis says:

      10:49am | 12/11/09

      HEE HEE HEE! Kevie KRudd wants everything climatewise all sealed signed and delivered here, before Copenhagen - well check out the UNFCCC website and the schedule for the December 7th-18th meeting. Then figure what are the odds of anything coming out of the globefest . . . . .

    • Carl Palmer says:

      12:56pm | 12/11/09

      I can just picture all the co2 global warming believers flocking to watch 2012. They’d all be in heaven sorry ruddland.

    • Phil says:

      03:02pm | 12/11/09

      Scott. Well written Keep up the good fight.

      ETS What a crock. KRUDD produces more co2 than probably any other Australian, and im not talking about the hot air that leaves his mouth or _ss.

      Personally I dont have a problem with the PM using the jet. But someone should calculate the co2 expelled from his jet since he was elected. Then work out how many cars, driving say 20000 kms per year that would have to be taken off the road to equal this.

      Regardless of what you say the ETS is simply a socialist regeme. It will take from the rich and give to the poor, but not force a reduction in polution. In fact as we supply one of the world’s biggest sources of polution to the world in coal and the like our ecomony will be hardest hit.

      I am not one for the ETS but believe that everyone should pull there weight. I have started solar powering of my home, (small system) and will continue to add cells as the money allows to reduce my dependance on coal fired power. I have solar hot water. I have rain water tanks. I have sold a gas guzzler and bought a diesel which uses far less fuel and produces less polution. This has cost a lot of money. I am doing it for my kids. I dont know if global warming is a crock or fair dinkum. But if you can you should do your bit, not just pink bats just cause they are free.

      I can only assume that the Jan’s, Steeve’s and Patricks of this world live in Eco friendly Solar powered homes and drive Toyota Prius or a similar vehicle which has no impact on the planet they live. Add to the mix they are vegans who only consume organic home grown produce.

      The proposed ETS will make electricity for those least likely to afford it out of reach. But they will be compensated I hear you say, isnt that like robbing from the rich to pay the poor.

      As for those on the P & O Oceanic Viking. Give them 24 hours to disembark, otherwise first stop Indonesia, second stop Sri Lanka. ALL OUT ALL CHANGE.

      How much diesel is being used for the generators on board.

      They are holding you to ranson KRUDD. Just as they will later but with a shot gun in their hand. If they cant obey the law now, and are prepared to use self harm and threatsw, what about when they get here. For those who want them, simple. Sponsor them with your own money and put them up house feed cloth and provide for them.

    • Scared says:

      04:02pm | 12/11/09

      We need to open our eyes people. Climate Change / Global Warming, is just another form of social control. Governments and people in positions of power use these things to keep the masses down. Keep them scared. Batter them into a position in which they’ll accept anything they throw at them.

      Its just like religion, or the “terrorism” threat, its not real. Stop swallowing everything that’s served up to you.

    • Phil says:

      08:26am | 13/11/09

      Jan
      Your not some mufti in disguise are you. To say you hope the sceptics burn in fires is a bit extreme. Its raving socialists like you who give the climate argument a bad name.

      You have not answered my questions before. Do you like in a solar powered eco home and drive a non poluting vehicle or better cycle your way around ?

    • Jan says:

      10:02am | 13/11/09

      Hi Phil.
      I start to fill sorry for you,
      you have done a litle with solar panels and water tanks and you doing it for your kids, ha ha.Did you claim a gav ribate?

      I am not a mufti, I am a Catolic.
      Put your glasses on when reading, I did’nt say anyone should burn. I said more fires, floods ect.. might teach some respect for the Earth.
      I dont have a car, I use public trunsport. Nor do I have solar powerd eco home.
      I and my family and most friends do what we can to live sensible.
      Not to abuse and not to be USED.
      I am not rich or poor, I pay my share for the things I use.
      I lived in Erope, Afica and Australia, I travel a lot and see the changes around the world in climate, very fast changes to my likenig.
      I dont know if they are directly conected to activities of human or other factor.but I do everything sensible to minimise my footprint I leave behind.

      For comfort and laxury that we have someone has to pay, and I take my responsibility to pay for my.
      If everyone would just “cool"down a litle and start to do things that are right for your place you live, the job to save Earth and climate is nearly done.
      Just be sensible not a funatic.

    • Phil says:

      10:48am | 13/11/09

      Jan

      I did not claim a rebate on any of my items. I purchased them well before they were in vogue nor Kevvy splashed cash around willy nilly.

      I am glad your perpared to pay your share, but many like you would not. Thats why so many people are lazy to now accept cash from the government for a rip off scheme for Pink Batts.

      How is the job to save the earth nearly done ? I have never heard such a bullshit statement yet.

      Do you really think an ETS will save the world. Not on your nelly. It will just cost many more whilst high poluting countries go on polluting as they always have. Do you honestly think that Australia doing their bit will stop the ice melting in the Antarctic, when China and India two countries that polute for more than us are unlikely to do anything for many years to come. I dont think so.

      The simple answer to reduction is the use of Nuclear Power, but your hero KRUDD will never allow that. Carbon Capture, what a crock. Just more money for proffessional students to tell the government what they want to hear.

    • Jan says:

      11:42am | 13/11/09

      Phil
      OK, you won!
      Lets all shit in our on nest.
      From now on everyone for themself, grub what you can and run.
      I will be long gone when the real problems start so why on earth I should worry about something that might never happen.

      Germany never wanted to start the II World War.
      So it was good idea not to stop them when they could be stoped.
      If something is too hard or to costly to do lets pretend it dose not exist.

      Someone has to start and lead others has to follow.
      This is why there are sheep and there are dogs to control them.
      The sheep are too stupid to lead.
      If we had to count on someone like you nothing progresive will be done.
      Lets use Nuclear power, lucky I have been to Ukraine only as a turist and close to Charnobyl.the site is pritty and I would recomend you go and live there.
      I dont wait for others to do my job.
      I am not a student, now life expirence is my teacher.

    • thatmosis says:

      02:09pm | 13/11/09

      The ETS is nothing but a Tax on the Australian people to build up the coffers of a Government who couldnt run a chook raffle. There are no safeguards built into the ETS as there is with the GST so that at anytime thes Government can increase to any level the cost of Carbon. Krudd couldnt get his GST increase though so is using this ETS as an alternative GST. The Tax will do noting for the environment and only the brain dead think it would as any “saving” of CO2 produced by Australia would be negated within minutes by the increased output from the “developing ” nations. The only thing the ETS will do is up the unemployment levels, increase the cost of all goods and services and by doing so increase the GST we have to pay for each item, a double whammy windfall for the Government. Wake up Australia we are being conned by a Snake oil salesman masquerading as our Prime Minister.

    • John Bradshaw says:

      11:13am | 19/11/09

      Climate change will happen anyway whatever we do. Its been changing for millions of years, nature decides, not we the people.ha ha .
      So right or wrong with the giant polluters of the world still going at it hammer and tong we’re stuffed, two things: no ones really sure about “us and climate change” if they were every country on the planet would be going hell for leather to stop polluting, but they ‘re not.
      The other point is one scientist says the ice caps are stuffed and another says its just part of the on going nature of things nothing abnormal “its happened before”, Who the hell do you beleive.
      Think on this, in several million/billion years if we’re still here, will the PM be saying ’ fellow Aussies we must start doing things differently we only have half a million years before the sun burns out or blows up, sorry folks the science is not perfect we aren’t sure how the end will be, but I think we all need to spend every cent everyone earns to figure out a way of HOW TO GET OFF THIS BLOODY PLANET BEFORE IT BLOWS ,forget about job security WE’VE ONLY GOT 500,000 YEARS. And its gonna happen soon , well sooner or later”. Isn’t it ridiculous, you can’t fight nature because we are nature and we will end . We pollute because we developed brain power to invent polluting machines to make life easier so enjoy it nothing lasts forever
      least of all us!!

    • Steve says:

      07:41pm | 19/11/09

      Some interesting thoughts from some that struggle with the reality that the Liberal Party fully supports an ETS. It is a proven fact with plenty of visual and data records to back the fact that the earth is warming. It is also a fact that pollution increase medical problems,  reduces quality of life and life expectancy.

      Most people want business that pollute to pay as an incentive for them to finds cleaner ways to produce their products. That is hard for the few to understand, I know, but if you consider for just a minute your children and grandchildrens health and try not to let your strong desire for maximum short term profit fill your heart you might see what most do. For some that would be impossible, sadly, but thank God you are in the minority.

    • Rebecca says:

      01:10am | 20/11/09

      Climate Change is going to happen.  I’m a sceptic of the ‘climate change movement’ - however, to the ‘Patrick’s’ of the world, I am NOT for ‘doing nothing’ or anti-government.

      I wholeheartedly support measures to encourage people to use, re-use, and waste less.  I support measures to research, and develop alternatives to ‘fossil fuels’.  I certainly encourage measures to get the population to live within their means - and to do so in as sustainable a method as possible.  I would also support measures to assist in the research and development of more sustainable industry practices.

      I don’t support - and never will support - an ETS like the government is proposing.  The concept of only using this funding for renewable energy / environmental causes (mentioned by someone above) was a half-way decent offset - but it would just never happen.

      To those on the ‘climate change’ bandwagon, who call the sceptics, or even the undecided, fools - and say there is no evidence to support such a view, or such deliberation - I would like to say that you’re not doing yourselves any favours.  Saying there is no evidence of competing viewpoints, and attempting to discredit any offered by name-calling is not debate, and its NOT helping to find solutions to the ‘alleged’ climate crisis. 

      To those of Australia with similar views to Patrick and Jan above, I ask you to consider all sides, and not just your side.  So too, the PM - but I have more chance of a reasonable persons response with the readers here!  Please don’t try to say we don’t matter - because there are a hell of a lot of us, and still quite a few more that don’t necessarily call themselves sceptics (may even be believers), and want to do something - but not the stupidity of what the government is proposing.

      I also would like Nuclear energy to be a consideration for Australia - however this would not be a blanket solution, since won’t uranium run out eventually?  Oh - and how much more research is going to go into making the by-products safe?  Where do we intend dumping Nuclear waste?  If they’d be willing to put money into research on detoxing it - might be more of a feasible solution.

      I really would like to know how we, as the human race, intend to ‘offset’ the CO2 emissions from volcanic activity, and the multitude of other sources as well - are we going to bend Nature to our will, now?  Maybe if that is the case, we can approach Stephen Hawking for advice on how to harness a black hole for a true ‘clean’ energy source.

 

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