Rudd has already won today’s health debate

persephone says:

07:22am | 23/03/10

Yeah, acker, ‘cos we’d much rather they were out robbing our homes for their next fix of heroin than the government giving them methadone.

Or that people on the dole or low incomes were waiting until a mild condition became chronic before seeking medical help.

Quick, timely medical aid prevents diseases becoming worse and thus saves the taxpayer money (“No, I won’t get that funny mole checked out, even though it’s doubled in size. We can’t afford it this week.”)

And a lot of doctors do charge $15 per appointment - it’s not all bulk billing out there, you know.

ChrisG says:

07:42am | 23/03/10

Ah, ‘persephone the policy wonk’ - so you are opposed to co-payments to try to manage unthinking, overloading, deny-resources-to-real-need, demand? The sensible response to ‘acker’ would have been to separate the fee suggestion for addicts - not likely to work as you imply - from the sensible affirmation of the role co-payments in any system

T.Chong says:

08:13am | 23/03/10

acker, exactly what would that prove,? are you inferring that these people on centerlink are all hypochondriacs? purely on the basis that they recieve some payment?
Why not extend your scheme to families that accept baby bonuses as well ?, or small and large business owners ? and farmers - anyone that accepts a subsidy or bonus of any type from the govt?
Or are the poor on centerlink ( who usuually have higher rates of chronic illness,) easier to villify, on the basis they are socially / economically disadvantaged to begin with?
I believe the Bible has something to say about judging others.  Go in Peace.  : )

Phil says:

08:23am | 23/03/10

Persephone

Why dont we hand out free heroine to the junkies. Maybe in high doses that way they quickly take themselves out thus saving us money in the long run. Many of them dont work and are on the public purse costing us millions.

Ackers plan would put money into the system.

Was not Rudd going to take over the hospitals. His plan whilst better than currently exists, is simply going to take some funds from the states and put it all into health plus add a few more top heavy staff who report to him so he can micro manage them.

At least if his proposal gets up that third of GST will go to Hospitals, only problem is with so many hopeless Labor State Governments in place, they will be more in debt as they are obviously not good at working to a budget.

If they are not going to pay say a $ 15 fee then how do you propose to pay for health. In reality the medicare levy needs to be at least 3% maybe more to adequately cover the costs, but cant imagine Kevy taking that one to the polls.

If you dont have a spare $ 15 for a doctor maybe you should look at the family budget and delete that extra case of beer/carton of fags. I know some people like single mothers etc still struggle and for them it could be free/or only a $ 5 fee. Like the insulation stuff up if people dont pay for anything they dont see a value in it, nor are they likely to fully appreciate it.

Acker I would go further, a $ 50 fee for attendance at hospitals for GP related conditions. This would free them up to care for really sick and needy patients.

persephone says:

08:26am | 23/03/10

ChrisG

I’m opposed to anything which deters someone who needs help seeking it.

And someone who books a doctor’s appointment when they don’t have a health problem probably does need help of some kind.

The problem in this scenario is where someone fronts at an emergency ward when they should have gone to the doctor’s. Some of those are there to avoid the co payment.

So not having universal bulk billing means that people seek more expensive forms of health care then they would if doctors weren’t charging a gap.

persephone says:

08:37am | 23/03/10

Phil

Heroin by prescription would solve a lot of problems. Unfortunately, it’s not a ‘socially acceptable’ idea, because the evidence is that it does work.

Having an addict on managed, cheap heroin prevents them overdosing, means that they can lead a relatively normal life, protects them from developing other diseases and lowers the crime rate.

As for your idea that we should let them all die, that’s not only contemptible, but ignores the fact that there are many worthwhile citizens out there who were once addicts.

Alcohol and tobacco are far more ruinous habits to our society than heroin addiction is. The only reason the local alcoholics aren’t holding up service stations is that their drug of choice is relatively affordable and available.

ChrisG says:

09:05am | 23/03/10

perspehone, and i am opposed anything that promotes a view of personal well-being that undermines a sense of responsibility, self-reliance and provision and contribution for one’s own care

if you want to avoid the migration from the GP to A&E because the latter is free, introduce a co-payment for all services

persephone says:

10:28am | 23/03/10

ChrisG

you may be, and that’s entirely your right.

However, politics deals with real results in the real world.

These continually demonstrate that a gung ho, you’re out there on your own, it’s me against the world attitude to public policy results in costlier outcomes in the long run - which means that you self reliant types end up paying more taxes.

You may not pay them to supply heroin or methadone to addicts, or low cost early care to low income earners, but you will later in increased policing and health costs.

I once heard a top New York policeman interviewed on radio. He said that, when he looked out our welfare system, he thought it was too soft. Then he looked at our crime figures and changed his mind.

Like it or not, those people you regard as the dregs of society who aren’t worthy of your support share the same community that you do, and what benefits them benefits you.

I obviously won’t bother trying the common humanity argument with you, as it’s a concept I think you would have great difficulty with.

Gerard says:

10:22am | 23/03/10

So Persephone, you are asserting that, somehow, Labor throwing taxpayers money from the Federal arena is different than Labor throwing money from the State arena? Acker had a suggestion and you canned it. But you came up with nothing. Expect more of the same. “Kill patients and run it broke”, the only Labor strategy.

ChrisG says:

10:45am | 23/03/10

persephone, I know you cop some rubbish some days in these discussions, but I’d appreciate it if you could stay at the level of intellectual engagement and avoid the contempt

persephone says:

10:58am | 23/03/10

Gerard

no, certainly not, and there’s a lot more to the health policy than just changing the way the bills are paid.

Quite frankly, I get bored explaining the same thing over and over and I’ve ‘done’ the health policy several times already my life.

If you have a specific question, I’m glad to try and tackle it.

Chris G

I would have thought my point - that leaving people to struggle along by themselves might be fine in theory but doesn’t work in practice, and results in higher costs to the taxpayer in the long run - was meaty enough for an intellectual response, no matter how tartly I put it!!

ChrisG says:

11:30am | 23/03/10

persephone, thank you for your reply. I think there is broad consensus, including social democrats, that it is possible to combine proper demand management with safety nets (hence the mix of co-payments with access to bulk billing) and that it is appropriate to create incentives for self-reliant behaviors to prevent or lessen welfare dependence. Clearly charging addicts for access to methadone was not sustainable (and I didn’t support that) but having totally free access to accident and emergency distorts that service, and I don’t think the sustainable solution is to remove co-payments at the GP level. That position can be held without abandoning concern for humanity!

Paul Horn says:

12:24pm | 23/03/10

Dear Persephone you just don’t make any sense. I’ve got two cousins on full disabilty benefits. One is a drug addict and the other an alcoholic. The alcoholic has been on benefits for the better part of 20 years. She attends rehabilitation clinics but walks out when it gets too hard. At present she is taking drugs to keep her alive. She enjoys a fully furnished brand new townhouse, foxtel and meals delivered by meals on wheels. The drug addict enjoys similar treatment.

So effectively you would prefer the Government to be the nations biggest drug supplier!!! In effect your crazy thinking will magnify the drug problem exponentially. I mean what better way to go if you are so inclined? A fully funded drug addiction scheme with free drugs supplied to boot and all legal and safe. How the hell would this reduce the drug problem??  Madness.

Look no further than Singapore for the most effective drug treatment regime on this planet. 

And while we are on the on the subject I will have to regretfully concur with Mr Lewis that while our economy looks good propped up by massive Governmental stimulus spending by the US and China Labor will be a ring in. But wait for the next election after this one when the stimulus has dried up creating even more massive debt mountains and we will be faced with one of thte greatest world wide financial catastrophes ever to face this planet!!! The great depression will look like an economic boom time.

Greece, Spain, Portugal, Dubai is only a tiny fleck of what is about to come.  Then watch the populace turn!!! Bring it on I say!

James1 says:

02:12pm | 23/03/10

Interesting prediction Paul Horn.  I am noting that hyperbole down, and will be getting back to you on this Australian financial catastrophe that dwarfs the Great Depression in a few years time…

Bob says:

03:24pm | 23/03/10

“Greece, Spain, Portugal, Dubai is only a tiny fleck of what is about to come.  Then watch the populace turn!!! Bring it on I say! “

So, you are happy to wish untold suffering on people just to say “I told you so.” Choice.

Scot says:

07:43pm | 23/03/10

Pter Lewis, I would not let Rudd Labor run a chook raffle. Every thing they touch is the kiss of the spider woman. To even allow them any where near the National Health system is lunacy and would mean the death of National Health. Rudd and Roxon are fill of lies ad when ones sees ETS, Fuel Watch, Grocery watch, Pink Batts, Solar Panels, Schools shade sheds, I have zero faith in them what so ever. Rudds track record on Health in QLD stands as a great example of his ineptitude.

persephone says:

08:36am | 23/03/10

So you admit your idea doesn’t fly unless it’s been considerably moderated.

Being on a health care card does not stop you being charged a gap payment by the local doctor.

And if you’re going to exclude health card recipients from your scheme, it basically will only cover full time workers anyway.

acker says:

09:45am | 23/03/10

@persphone…no more moderated than an existing methodone program

persephone says:

08:48am | 23/03/10

Actually, if anyone is responsible for killing people and burning down houses, it’s the small businesses - the private enterprises - which installed the insulation.

If they’d followed a few simple rules, outlined for them by the Minister and in some cases written on large letters on the material they were using, these problems would not have occured.

The computers in schools thingy is on time. The government is not responsible for the way the media reported its policy proposals.

Today’s media has a few reports on Telstra’s desperate attempts to buy into the NBN. It’s a huge, ambitious scheme and will mean that Australia finally catches up to the rest of the world, but it’s not the kind of thing that you would expect to see delivered next Thursday. That said, it’s being successfully rolled out in a number of places.

There’s no evidence the school halls program is wasting money, despite being heavily auditted. A school principal is not an expert in building costs and neither is the AEU.

Ruddbank would have protected more jobs, but fortunately we rode out the GFC fairly well anyway.

Grocery watch - yep, tried, failed. Better than not trying, I would have thought; you need to take risks to achieve anything.

FuelWatch - blocked in the Senate. Still working well in WA, the Liberal government there seems very happy with it.

acker says:

10:09am | 23/03/10

@persephone ..some of those small businesses were probably someone sub contracting with just a ladder, ute, notepad, credit card and mobile. Peter Garrett did not exactly put in many stringent controls.

persephone says:

10:25am | 23/03/10

acker

good to see you arguing for more government controls on small business.

Let’s get rid of this idea that governments need to get out of the way of businesses, letting them run free and untrammelled by red tape.

You obviously believe that more government bureaucracy is the answer, and who am I to argue with that?

Oh, and those businesses weren’t unionised, either, so let’s make that compulsory for all workers while we’re at it.

acker says:

11:18am | 23/03/10

@piddling diatribe .. I think a school principal who has a detailed breakdown of expediture on a stimulus school building program that says something like management fee printed on it, would be pretty spot on it is not a building cost

Moggy says:

04:30pm | 23/03/10

Persephone…are you on Rudd’s staff?? Or the Labor party’s staff?? I voted for Rudd & am now embarrassed to admit it. He’s a loser & a tosser who wastes his time posing in front of cameras with little schol children…...that is, when he’s in the country.

persephone says:

08:50am | 23/03/10

Under the Murray Darling deal, there’s already been extra water supplied to the environment.

The basic problem here is still lack of water, which won’t be solved without rain.

Ten years of drought are not compensated for by a few days of heavy rains.

The Drover says:

11:12am | 23/03/10

If it does get physical, I am gunna put my 2 bobs worth on the bloke in the budgie smugglers.

persephone says:

10:33am | 23/03/10

No, apparently he’s patron of the Brisbane Broncos, who were the visiting team.

And no, I don’t worship Kevin, although I always like leaders who try and educate people rather than just telling them what they’re going to do.

Andy says:

11:08am | 23/03/10

The Canberra crowd were booing the PM because he is a Broncos supporter; the Raiders were playing the Broncos.

The Australian economy is currently performing the best in the OECD, hardly on its knees.

Bruce says:

11:43am | 23/03/10

Yep he has driven the country to its knees which is why unemployment fell and the economy is run strong!

James1 says:

11:57am | 23/03/10

Bruce and Andy,

Leave your facts out of this.

Mavis says:

02:00pm | 23/03/10

Ha, ha, ha, Persephone.  Can you spin past that one, staffer? Raiders fans wouldn’t know Rudd was the no 1 Broncos ticket holder.

NRL fans are basic people. They know a fake and they booed him. Rudd was booed when the Broncos played in Brisbane.

persephone says:

03:42pm | 23/03/10

Mavis, unless the Broncos were playing themselves, there were supporters of another team there, too.

T.Chong says:

09:43am | 23/03/10

Robynne : our hospitals and education are third world?
Complete and utter crap.
Which third world countries? please provide details, just to show you arent reading the LNP talking points for this week.
Abbott and co. are yet to give any policy about anything.

Bruce says:

11:05am | 23/03/10

Howard paid of the bebt left by labor and the Hawke/keating governments paid off the debt left by the Fraser/Howard debt!
So whats your point?

James1 says:

12:01pm | 23/03/10

All that shows robynne is that you have never visited a third world country, or perhaps even a school or hospital in Australia.  It further seems likely that your parents didn’t visit a school at all either, to judge by the spelling of your name…

Gerard says:

12:44pm | 23/03/10

T.Chong and James1. Don’t get too smug. I lived in a third world country and had a chance to observe waiting times, clinical outcomes and budget performance. Its not all that good for Australia. Robynne is a lot more accurate in her assessment than your Labor propaganda.

James1 says:

02:14pm | 23/03/10

Interesting you say that Gerard.  I am not a Labor propagandist, and I also know third world medical systems first hand.  I just got back from PNG, and have been to visit villages where they have no doctor.  Which third world country did you visit that has a healthcare system that is ranked by the WHO as one of the best in the world?  Costa Rica?

Rob says:

10:13am | 23/03/10

That may be a good idea if the BMI were an accurate measure of a persons health.  I have a friend who is a body builder and due to his shorter stature his BMI puts him in the grossly obese category despite only having something like 6% body fat.  But I agree on the drug test and this should apply to centrelink payments also.

persephone says:

10:30am | 23/03/10

Rob

except what do you achieve by throwing people off Centrelink payments?

It costs much more to the taxpayer to keep them in jail, which is where they will inevitably end up otherwise.

acker says:

10:37am | 23/03/10

@Rob…I suggest it be a fairly high pre-determined BMI, so it actualy gets the true obese rather than those that are borderline. I also suggest that in subsequent years if that same person has lost 10% of that weight they get the refund again. Carrot and stick approach.
As for drugs and centerlink payments, those people should be made to have their payments controlled like in indigenous communities, and the same for those who have a child at primary school who does not attend school at least 95% with exception to days they have a doctors certificate. Truancy is also a curse, and those who supposedly educate there children at home (not isolated people), should be tested and audited often and perhaps even made to undertake a pre-accredation course, aptitude test and annual home teaching licencing renewal.

Rob says:

10:58am | 23/03/10

@persephone:  Are you really suggesting that every single drug user on welfare will turn to a life of crime??    It might just be the incentive some need to get off the drugs and become a valued member of society.  If a 3 strike approach was adopted or proof that the individual was seeking help before welfare reduction or income management (as suggested by acker) introduced, it wouldnt lead to a mass crime wave as you would suggest.  At least with this approach those taking drugs on the taxpayers purse can be identified and offered help rather than continue on a nationally funded waste of existence.  I know my taxpayer dollars could be put to better use (perhaps not by the current government though)

G says:

10:34am | 23/03/10

The poll can’t be explained. The figures are a mathematical impossibility. Some one is making up figures.

persephone says:

10:35am | 23/03/10

Mountainman - the 12% is the number of all voters (that is, Liberal + Labor + Greens + others) surveyed; the 27% is only out of the Liberal voters.

And if you think polls are manipulated, why pay any attention to them at all?

David says:

12:27pm | 23/03/10

They are too busy drowning their surrounds after the Bronco’s game

Dingo says:

11:52am | 23/03/10

Spot on Bruce.

Look at the buildings in schools.

One example today is a school that managed its own project and built two complete permanent classrooms, a pre-fabricated classroom and a basketball hard court with lights for around $850k.

The building at the school down the road was managed by the NSW State Education dept who spent $900k on two pre-fabricated classrooms.

The problems in NSW hospitals are the result of the incompetence and cronyism of the NSW Dept of Health. Better management of our health resources (not more money) would provide better outcomes.

There’s no point in giving these incompetent bureaucrats more money to waste. The Government has to change management of hospitals, then we can discuss funding arrangements with proper accountability.

Repeat Offender says:

12:44pm | 23/03/10

This is hardly a take over of funding in the hospital system. It is more like saying to you 15 year old son unless your grades improve I am going to with hold 30% of your pocket money.

acker says:

09:50am | 23/03/10

@Drewboy ...You left out Labor party volunteer wannabe which I think is a bit closer to the mark, the taxpayer would have a fit if they were paying someone to come up with those kneejerk dogmatic A-Typical propaganda like responses.

marie says:

09:57am | 23/03/10

Agree. Can make green look like yellow. But hey, everybody happy !!

Gotta be says:

10:06am | 23/03/10

So, those few posters who think out their posts, know something about what they’re talking about, show evidence for their position,  and do it all without insult or dishonesty, must be paid lackeys of a non-conservative party, eh.

Sure.  Sure. Bound to be. Can’t have any nasty factual argument here, eh. Bloody un-Australian, eh.

persephone says:

10:39am | 23/03/10

Drewboy et al

Not my fault if all you guys can’t come up with convincing arguments against me.

But don’t worry, it’s not your fault - it just shows how easy it is to defend the government and how hard it is to defend the opposition.

Drewboy says:

10:48am | 23/03/10

@Gotta Be I’m all for a factual argument anytime anywhere, but when somebody peddles party spin whether it is Labor or Liberal, that’s when I take issue.

persephone says:

11:21am | 23/03/10

OK, Drewboy, start a factual argument then.

Apparently it’s only spin if it’s something you can’t argue with.

Margaret Gray says:

12:18pm | 23/03/10

“...OK, Drewboy, start a factual argument then….”

Coming from one whose “arguments” are so bereft of facts that’s hilarious.

Paul Horn says:

12:38pm | 23/03/10

You bet your life Daisy Mae because when he gets in at the next election he will have to extort all your money to pay for his crazy spending schemes!!!! Better off being a scunger on the dole or disability support pension than a contributor. Give up now!!!

James1 says:

02:22pm | 23/03/10

You must be in a very low socio-economic bracket to be better off on the dole, Paul.  I had always thought you would have a reasonably good job.

Darryl says:

11:23am | 23/03/10

Julie the interest payments on labor debt will preclude us from any real reform. Rudd will have to cut programs or raise taxes to meet the interest payments on his debt and then he wants his pretend health reform. Will not happen a mere diversion. This is just a diversion from all the other stuff he has stuffed up. I liked his high visibility hard hat period. At least then you could run now he sneaks up on bed bound hospital patients who can’t get away. How cruel is this fellow.

acker says:

10:25am | 23/03/10

@matilda the drovers dog…to be fair I think the State system in general stuffed health delivery to the public. Most of the same bureaucrats at the top who have orchestrated this mess in NSW have been around during a Liberal government as well. Unfortunately much like Yes Minister, you can change the government but you still have Sir Hummfray Appelby types regardless of which party holds power on the day.
Someone needs to grab the Federal and State Health departments by the scruff of the neck and get rid of these senior bureaucrats and their public service staffers who reckon they are indespensible but deliver little more than thier job security and cyclic pay rises.
And are probably well conected within the Public Service unions and the Right wing of the Labor Party.

persephone says:

10:42am | 23/03/10

Er, actually, Jim, there’s one happening right at this moment.

By keeping people employed, the government has been able to borrow less than it originally estimated, and has been able to bring forward the expected date of repayment considerably.

acker says:

10:42am | 23/03/10

@JimH ...In New South Wales there are over 20000 administrative people on the Health Department Payroll. Rather than a mining boom I would call that a paper shuffling boom Jim

persephone says:

11:04am | 23/03/10

He’s already added extra doctors and nurses and has outlined extensive plans to build up these numbers further.

The State premiers are doing what state premiers always do when the Federal government (of whatever hue) makes them a proposition - ask for more money.

As for the rest, it’s a matter of perspective, rather than fact. A lot of the business community think the NBN is brilliant and long overdue; batts means over one million homes are insulated that weren’t before; there’s no evidence that school halls are overpriced, despite extensive and ongoing audits; border protection is a global problem and the government is working well with other countries to tackle it; and AGW is not a con, but represents not only a broken promise from the Liberals but also demonstrates that their demands for bipartisanship on issues should be ignored, as they can’t even negotiate in good faith.

Margaret Gray says:

12:16pm | 23/03/10

“...He’s already added extra doctors and nurses and has outlined extensive plans to build up these numbers further…”

Rubbish.

Where?  How?

Your regurgitation of the talking points and clear fabrications are getting rather tiresome.

Maybe people would feel better if they knew who you really are and why you post so much pro-government drivel.

Will you tell them or should I?

persephone says:

12:34pm | 23/03/10

Margaret

too many schemes to list here, aimed at encouraging/retaining nurses and doctors - have a look at

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/work-prog

for an A-Z list of something like 40 separate initiatives aimed at increasing the medical workforce in this country.

Gotta be says:

12:37pm | 23/03/10

Won’t wash, Ms Gray.

I don’t know Perspehone. But I do know she’s explained her interest and circumstances many, many times.  I do know that several of us have said from time to time how welcome her posts are, for their factual, coolly reasoned content. 

Persephone is one of the few Punch regulars who knows what she’s talking about, and who bothers to check when she needs to know more to make her point.

Despite continual rude and unjustified personal attacks, she sails on, with lively opinion based on useful highly accurate info, often with easily checked public sources. Plus the occasional apt riposte to the peanut gallery.

It’s a real puzzle that there are no , none, zero, Liberal supporters posting with the same accuracy and quality.  And Ms Gray, any one of her posts is worth a gross of your empty snipes.

Persephone, The Punch is the better for your presence - post on, please.

J says:

01:56pm | 23/03/10

Well?  Margaret, who is she?

Margaret Gray says:

03:20pm | 23/03/10

“...Well?  Margaret, who is she?...”

You’re assuming incorrectly for a start.

We should play 20 questions instead…that way it builds to a nice climax.

Margaret Gray says:

03:25pm | 23/03/10

According to you:

“...He’s already added extra doctors and nurses…”

Wrong.

When asked to provide any evidence of this you can’t.  [A link to a list of bureaucracies is ‘proof’ of nothing].

Why do have to resort to lying?

persephone says:

03:39pm | 23/03/10

No, J is going by repeated comments I’ve made on this site about my gender.

J says:

04:50pm | 23/03/10

Erm, actually I was going by the fact that Persephone (as in Greek mythology) was a girl.

But whatever…

Margaret - I thought so.  Bugger 20 questions.  Either pony up or shut up.

Persephone, I appreciate your comments as well.  I’m a die-hard Liberal supporter, but I like hearing the other side’s story.

persephone says:

05:55pm | 23/03/10

Well, J, you get a gold star and an elephant stamp regardless.

Margaret, not a list of bureaucracies but a list of initiatives - scholarships, traineeships, etc - over 40 of them, all designed to encourage more medical professionals.

Interesting to note how many of them (probably half) are specifically designed to attract health professionals to rural and regional areas.

(I’m sure I’ve already typed something like that, so excuse me if I’ve double posted).

Darryl says:

11:33am | 23/03/10

Correct rudd knows it will go nowhere. But at least he can say I tried. Then go to an election and play the BLAME game The great benefit is with nothing about to happen rudd has not spent any more money. This has been his best work so far, he got the same nil result as with everything else he touched but did not spend a cent.

Troy says:

11:32am | 23/03/10

Lets see, Abbotts record has Health Minister. (copied)
bulk-billing went to record levels; the Medicare safety net was introduced; nurse, physio and other allied health services first attracted Medicare rebates; and the Medicare dental scheme started (that Labor wants to abolish). The Howard government established nine new medical schools, opened nearly 200,000 extra aged care places and encouraged nearly half the population to have private health insurance. While I was minister, federal spending on public hospitals increased by $10 billion.
I have just copied this from another newspaper, but its all true.
What has Rudd and Roxen done, besides trying to means test the Private Health Rebate and cut medicare funding for obstetrics?????

Matt says:

12:02pm | 23/03/10

Nice summary Troy.

And in trying to means test the Private Health Rebate, Rudd and Roxon are trying to gouge $2 billion out of health funding.

My mother has just recovered from a ruptured brian aneurysm. Her health fund paid over $45,000 for her treatment in a public hospital. There were no extras as a private patient. She would have had the same (excellent) treatment as a public patient but there’d be no money paid to the hospital .

If Roxon keeps putting pressure on Private Health Insurance premiums my mum won’t be able to afford to keep it. She’s not caught by the means test, but the increase in premiums are getting prohibitive already.

Rudd and Roxon are all smear, class war & talk. Abbott actually made improvements that had direct benefits, despite the incompetence of the States (well NSW anyway) in running the hospitals.

persephone says:

11:25am | 23/03/10

Which is why Rudd will go to a referendum if the States don’t come on board.

The same quibble applied to the takeover of the Murray Darling Basin authority, but he was able to successfully negotiate that one.

DG says:

11:50am | 23/03/10

Not really - the section 51 issue can be avoided by providing conditional funding to the States.  The Feds have all of the taxing power, states need to play along to get the cash.

Since the proposal appears to be to manage funding, rather than managing the actual running of hospitals, there is some scope in the contributions that the Feds make to the States.

Hamish says:

12:46pm | 23/03/10

You’re right Pete. Victoria is widely regarded as having one of the best health systems in Australia, courtesy of Kennett’s reforms. The worst systems are Queensland and NSW where Labor government’s have been good at spin, but bad at action (sound familiar?). It is true that Labor have a good reputation on Health, but it’s unclear why really. My assumption is people don’t understand the complexities of the system so when Labor says ‘we’ll pump X dollars into health’ people assume they’re doing something. Of course, as with most Labor pogrammes, all the extra money is spent on bureaucracy.

The poll at the top is extrememly misleading. Sure, most people might support a federal takeover of health funding, but that’s not what Rudd is promising. He did promise it, but he’s reneged.

Rudd’s plan appears to be this. Steal GST money from the states. Give them back the money through a new level of health bureaucracy. Take more money from states with decent systems (e.g. Victoria), give it to states with deplorable systems (e.g. Queensland). Achieving what? More bureaucrats.

It’s also important to keep in mind that Australia actually has one of the best health systems in the world.

Troy says:

12:25pm | 23/03/10

Douglas I know you want to keep spinning the Rudd line about the 1 billion dollars, but it is simply NOT TRUE. Abbott actually increased Hospital spending by 10 billion while he was health minister. That is one of the reasons Peter Costello came up with the idea to take control of the Hospitals from the state in first place (Which Me- Too Rudd has now copied), because they kept increasing the Federal Funding and the State Labor Governments kept blowing it. The 1 billion dollars that the Labor Government is trying so hard to stick to Abbott is a complete LIE, but I guess if you keep spinning it for long enough, just like the Stolen Generation Lie then some gullible people end up believing it.

Gerard says:

12:54pm | 23/03/10

Douglas, you are like one of those chanting students in the 60s with their Chairman Mao little Red books. All slogans and vile diatribe.

Mavis says:

12:56pm | 23/03/10

Yes, Rudd has 1000s of policies. Most are called “Gunnas”. The rest are called “Stuff-ups”. You just don’t get it. Rudd doesn’t do anything apart from waffle.

Glenis of Qld says:

04:53pm | 23/03/10

Boy, Douglas, have you been brainwashed!

Botfly says:

01:08pm | 23/03/10

Yes lets ban everything, we can even ban death that should save a few bux and help the enviroment, no need to cut down trees for coffins

matthew says:

09:14am | 24/03/10

liberal party shoud win the elction labor shud not win the elction   kevin rud will not win the elction

persephone says:

05:58pm | 23/03/10

What, apart from the dozen or so I’ve already made?

I’m playing to a tough audience.

BobM says:

08:14pm | 23/03/10

She hasn’t stopped. I think he/she is on the Spin Doctor payroll, the way he/she jumps to Rudds defence all the time - he/she knows more about his policies than Rudd does.

persephone says:

08:28pm | 24/03/10

Shere Khan,
Despite dodgy reporting, the concerns are not with the health costs of pensioners now, but of pensioners in twenty or so years time (when the baby boomers hit their sixties).

Now, I do hope you are still around then, but the trouble is, by then pensioners will make up a much more sizeable chunk of the population then they do now, and there won’t be as many people working to pay the taxes to support them.

So the problem’s not you (although, if you live another twenty years, you’ll be part of it) but me and my age group and our failure to replace ourselves with a long term workforce.

And, just to counter your sexism - if 40% of those at the doctor’s are fat females, I assume therefore that 60% are fat males.

And (with very few exceptions) all of us can afford to eat less.