A strange thing happened when I became a parent. I started to get upset when I saw stories like the one of the five young men who were killed in a motor crash at the weekend.

The sickening wreckage of the Falcon in which five young men died in Melbourne this weekend.

I’ve also found myself saying ‘in my day’ or worse, ‘when I was young’. I’ve already made decisions about a computer in my child’s room and whether she will have a mobile phone.

Sometimes when the entrepreneurial gene comes out, I wonder if I could get a mobile phone made that simply dials home and does nothing else. I would market it as not having a camera or video function, wouldn’t be able to surf the net and it wouldn’t rack up bills of many hundreds of dollars. (That’s where the entrepreneurial gene fails me.)

Most days, particularly at the end of the year when all the fresh red P platers are on the road, I feel grateful I had a girl, not a boy. The ABS figures (Causes of Death, 2007) indicate that boys are almost twice as likely as girls to die from an external cause. This includes car accidents, in which males are almost three times as likely to as females.

Males are three-and-a-half times as likely as females to die from self-harm, which is a nicer way of saying suicide.

Males are more than three times as likely to die from alcohol poisoning and four-and-a-half times as likely to die from psychotic drugs.

Statistically, if you’re a parent of a boy the odds are tragically against you.

Over the weekend, five young men died in a road smash, and this has left the Victorian government at a loss as to how to convince young people that they must stop speeding.

Perhaps this isn’t a matter for young people, but their parents. I’m not blaming the parents for this particular accident, and I’m certainly not aware of who the owner of the car was.

But the car in question was a Ford Falcon. It was large enough to seat five (and another female passenger) and fast enough to get to a speed of 140km per hour.

It used to unnerve me to see P plate drivers in nicer cars or more powerful cars than mine, like the sporty version of a Peugot 206 or the latest Honda Civic. In fact, I remember filling up my Hondamatic ’79 when I was 24, only to see a girl who finished school three years after me drive up in the newest Ford Laser.

One day, when I worked in Kogarah in Sydney, I was in the bank and watched as a father co-signed a loan for his son for a $35,000 motor car. The boy looked as if he shaved about once a fortnight.

One of the great things about the Global Financial Crisis is I’m seeing more 18-24 year olds driving beat up old bombs like I had. They can’t go any faster than 95kmh because the doors will fall off or the wind resistance will deafen them.

But that doesn’t stop kids borrowing dad’s car and doing something foolish with it. It’s been this way forever, they probably even did it with horses. The 1980s movie Risky Business is based on the premise of ‘doing something stupid with your father’s high powered car’.

The Victorian government (in fact all Australian governments) might take a leaf out of the New Zealand government’s book and remind parents that they’re an example to their children. You don’t learn how to be a bad driver sitting behind a good driver.

As parents we need to understand that our children will watch us tailgate, abuse other drivers, cut people off or not let merging traffic in, and think this is normal driving behaviour, when it’s not.

I am as guilty of swearing at another driver as the next parent, and it’s a daily challenge to keep to the speed limit and keep my temper when my little girl is in the back seat, and she’s only 17months old.

A few months with a driving instructor is not going to undo 18 years of indoctrination of abuse and bad habits learned from a passenger seat.

In the meantime, parents might consider getting their young drivers an old four cylinder car and removing the back seats. It seems this is the only way to ensure we minimise the loss of young lives on our roads.

*Source: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/9B8B1A46FD3B9FBACA25757C001EF6A8?opendocument

70 comments

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    • Phil says:

      06:36am | 19/01/10

      Julia as a father of two daughters I am alarmed at the failure of governments the country over to build safer roads, and concentrate on having better safer drivers.

      Speed kills is a slogan used by pollies cause it sounds good and appeals to the masses. Speed does not kill anyone, its their inability to drive accordingly to the conditions, (car control) or doing so irresponsibly in cars not designed for that purpose, also its the sudden stop.

      Our entire driver education in NSW is based around a three point turn and a reverse park. Sure you need to know how to generally drive, but ive never heard of whole families getting wiped out with a three point turn or a reverse park.

      Sure the government introduced minimum hours, but lets be honest, most parents are just teaching their kids bad habits. I agree that they learn from the back seat a lot and in some cases thats a good thing but not always.

      Instead, driver education should be the answer. This would be unpopular cause it would cost a lot of money say $ 2,000 per child and some may not be able to afford it. But a government loan/subsidy if neccessary would do the trick. I am not talking about power slides, but emergency braking, skid pan work and the like as well as general driver instruction, car upkeep etc. (Tyre pressures, tread and brakes) This would be on road and track. To me this would be an investment in my children worth every cent.

      The cost, pain and tragety from scenarios like the weekend is something that you would not wish on your worst enemy and something I will do everything in my power to never have to face as a parent.

      Luckily my girls are not yet 10, and I’ve a while to go. I dont allow others to drive them unless I have first seen them drive and feel they are capable and safe. I have barred close family from driving them as I dont think they are adequate drivers and that has caused heartache for my wife and I, but its not negotiable.

      When my girls are of driving age, they will be taught and undergo driver training before I will allow them to take the test. Unless I and the instructor feel they are ready they will not sit the test regardless of age.

      I will then buy them the newest but slowest Mercedes or similar I can afford and will limit their going in others cars unless I have seen them drive, or they have undergone the same training as my girls. An old four cylinder is not necessarily the answer a new Daewoo would be safer than a 20 year old Gemini.

      This may seem harsh and I dont care if some call me a control freak,

    • Jade says:

      10:00am | 19/01/10

      I agree with you about the driver training, it should be maditory!

      Speed does not kill, its just a way for the government to raise money.

    • George says:

      11:11am | 19/01/10

      Phil says:
      “I am alarmed at the failure of governments the country over to build safer roads”  -  And that’s where it all goes wrong: You have to drive the car in a way that you can control it independent of the condition of the road.
      So - if you’re on a bad road: SLOW DOWN. If you the road is good: Speed up to the allowed maximum speed. It has nothing to do with the road. 99% of all these crashes are caused by kids overestimating their ability to drive at high speeds on roads that weren’t made for that.

    • Phil says:

      02:38pm | 19/01/10

      George

      Governments do not spend all fuel taxes on roads. Are you stating that the Pacific Highway from Melbourne to Queensland is a great road. Its a disgrace that its not dual carriage way all the journey.

      I clearly stated that it was the inability to drive according to the conditions that killed people. I have driven at very high speeds on race tracks and parts of Europe. Just because I was doing well over 200 kms per hour did not make my car implode or I to crash and die. I have also slowed to 25-35 kms per hour in a 100 zone on the Pacific Highway near Coffs during torential downpours and used my hazard lights to warm those behind me as the visability was so poor and the vehicle I was driving was aquaplanning.

      John A Neve

      I am glad you think the roads are fantastic. I dont know where you live but in Sydney on the Pacific Highway and the Monaro Highway they are terrible. Made on the cheap and full of potholes after rain.

      I would be more than happy to pay a $ 30-50 toll for Sydney to the Gold Coast for a great dual carriage way road all the way with a limit of 110-130 kmh. WIth the time savings and fuel savings worth every cent.

      H of SA

      We agree on another point. Look out

    • Aaltonen says:

      04:59pm | 19/01/10

      Phil, could not agree more. I have one daughter on L-Plates at the moment and two more to come. As a rev-head from way back (motor sport, not on-road hooning), it scares me to sit in the left side seat now. At least in NSW you have mandatory road-worthies every year with rego. No such thing here in Vic - every day I see dangerously unroadworthy vehicles driven by unroadworthy drivers. Bald tyres seem to be the most common, with even belts poking through! A lot of young ones get so in debt with the purchase of their pride and joy that they can’t afford to maintain - I’ve even seen tyre joints sell cheap retread ultra-low profile tyres that maintain ‘the look’ but are really lethal. Victoria should introduce same annual road-worthies, not just when byuing/selling.

      On the subject of the declining road-toll, the authorities like to congratulate themselves on these statistics, citing speed cameras, breathysers etc as the main reasons. In reality the factors are a lot more complex than that, ie. increasing primary safety (ABS, ESC, tyres, steering, etc), secondary safety (airbags, crumple zones) in modern vehicles as well as slowly improving roads that really should be credited more. But, hey, if we say that, we can’t continue to collect fines,  especially from privately-run ‘revenue’ cameras.

      These days, most drivers seem to think that if they’re not breaking the speed limit (no matter what road/weather conditions), and are not under the inluence of drink or drugs, everything is ok - put car in D and brain in N! It’s not speed that kills, it’s inappropriate speed and stupidity. Just because the speed limit is 80, doesn’t mean that you are going go around the corner in the wet doing 80. You have to think and act on your judgement - this is not mentioned, it’s just all about the ‘speed limit’. We hear ad infinitum that some dodgy statistic says that we are twice as likely to have an accident if we do 5 ks over the limit - just like I am twice as likely to win powerball by buying 2 tickets! In reality you are 100 times more likely to have an accident at 5ks under the limit by being stupid and driving a death trap. Roadworthys would fix the deathtraps, but is there in intelligence breathalyser?

      Driver training is now even more focused on ‘the hours’ and passing the test that learners don’t really learn to drive. Automatics are that easy to drive that cars become an appliance, rather than a useful but dangerous tool that needs careful and comprehensive training and understanding. Hell, I’ll even advocate that everyone should pass their test in a manual, because if you cannot learn the co-ordination and technique of a three-pedal car, you should not be on the road! Also, accident-avoidance focused defensive driving before you get your licence should be mandatory. Drivers should have a better understanding of the machine, and not treat as a kitchen appliance.

      On roads, here in Vic we have very few roads that are 110 limit, unlike NSW. We used to do 110 on the very boring and straight old Geelong road, but then someone hit a tree and died, and they knee-jerked it down to 100 - that’ll fix it! They even improved the road so it’s mostly 4 lanes each waynow, but would they increase it to 110, no. So, you can drive on the bumpy dangerous Calder out North-West or 2-lane Princes highway in Gippsland doing 110, but not to Geelong. Not since they put the cameras in that are doing very nice business. I believe we should be able to drive even 130 on M roads (ie motorways), with electronic signage to drop this to 110, 90, 70 during adverse weather and congestion, and also to decrease speed limits in urban built-up areas from 60 to 50, and even 40. This is the way it is in a lot of countries in Europe, with better road-toll statistics (and drivers) than Oz - we should learn from them.

      What we need is smart, real solutions to driver training, speed limits, roads, vehicle safety, not just cliched propaganda that we are force-fed. Also, stop raising revenue from speed-cameras and look at making things better for everyone.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:03am | 20/01/10

      Phil @ 1538hrs, yesterday,

      I have never said our roads are “fantastic”, that is a figment of your imagination. Try responding to what I actually wrote.

    • Chas says:

      07:29am | 19/01/10

      I think that the reporting of these incidents sends the wrong message, so it’s about time we put the speeds into context. 140km/h is fully 100km/h BELOW the top speed of a Falcon XR6 (even an old one). It’s even at least 20km/h BELOW the top speed of a fire breathing 53kW 1981 Laser GL. Fact is that real street racers go a hell of a lot faster, they also tends not to get caught or crash and crucially they tends to drive worthless old wrecks or stolen cars just in case they have to dump them and run. So perhaps the message should be - if you can’t even come close to keeping up with the big boys maybe you should just give up and drive carefully instead.

    • LC says:

      05:33pm | 20/03/11

      Just because it has 240 on the speedo does not guarantee the car can go that fast.

    • John A Neve says:

      07:33am | 19/01/10

      Phil @ 0736hrs,

      It is my belief our roads are the best they have ever been. Could they be better? Yes, of course they could, but do we want to pay for the very best?

      As to your two girls, they are very lucky, after you have given them the very best driver education and put them in the safest vehicles going. Their chances of having an accident will be reduced, not removed, just reduced.

    • S.L says:

      07:36am | 19/01/10

      This can also be a story about the pitfalls of progress. Let me explain.
      An AU falcon XR6 (similar to the car in the accident) can be bought on ebay or out of the paper for $1,500 upwards. A similar Commodore say a VN 1988 to say a VS 1996 can be had for even less. Now these ordinary everyday cars have top speeds comparable to the Monaros and Falcons that raced at Bathurst in the 60s to 70s in the hands of compitent racing drivers. They easily top 200kmh which in the old scale is 125mph. Even small japanese 4s go that quick. Our lawmakers in NSW are hell bent on banning P platers from driving turbo charged cars which just shows their lack of knowledge on the subject. A BMW M3 is legal for a P plater where Ford Transit turbo deisel isn’t! 
      In Victoria a few years ago the government brought out a formula of engine size to vehicle weight where say a P plater couldn’t own a Kingswood with an engine bigger than the smaller 4.2 litre V8 option. Almost overnight an industry sprung up modifiying these engines capacities to nearly 5 litres rendering the law useless unless police were prepared to pull a motor down on the side of the road!
      Motorcycles were the same. When I was riding in the early 80s the smallest bike I rode was 750cc on L plates before I got my liscence. The government then limited L and P platers to 250cc. The manufaturers soon offered 2 stroke rocketships that were as quick as the Kwaka 9s and Honda 4s of the day. So they then banned 2 stroke 250s and now you can buy a 4cylinder 250 4 stroke that is no slower again.
      They only solution with merrit I’ve heard is get them a ute! Maximum one passenger then…....
      If they want to speed they will and unfortunately no amount of legislation will stop them!

    • Jolanda says:

      08:32am | 19/01/10

      I have two P platers and I worry.  I have lectured them until their ears have nearly fallen off about the dangers of speeding, their responsibility to their passengers and other road users, the fines that they can receive and the fact that I will not pay a cent towards a fine or take their points even if it means that they will lose their licence (if it is a camera shot).  I constantly bring their attention to accidents in the papers involving speed. 

      I must say that I worry more when my children are in the car with somebody else driving, especially a teenage boy.  I often talk to my kids about this situation so that if they ever find themselves in it they will hopefully be informed and strong enough to know what to do and I tell them to call me and that I will pick them up (and their friends) at any time of the day or night rather than them get into a car when they do not feel safe or where they are not legally allowed to be.

      I think it is really important for there to be an education campaign for passengers.  The last campaign when all the passengers did when the driver was speeding and being stupid was wiggle their little finger was stupid – how is that going to help?  Passengers need to be empowered to speak out and object when the driver is driving fast or dangerously, they need to be taught how to get themselves out of that situation by asking the driver to slow down and to let them off if the driver does not respond and passengers need to be taught to support each other when they stand up to the driver as it is their life that the driver is playing with and you only get one life.  They need to learn to say no when too many people are being piled into a car.  To many passengers are embarrassed to say anything and unfortunately that can result in the loss of their life or serious injury.

      Education - Keeping them Honest
      http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/

    • BMJ says:

      08:42am | 19/01/10

      It doesn’t matter how many gory adds you make. It doesn’t matter if you make double or quadruple demerit points or set $5000 fines for going 1km/h over the limit. Sometimes kids/adults will do insanely stupid things in cars.

    • Adam says:

      04:27pm | 20/01/10

      No government can make an individuals decision. The only solutions is to make roads/cars safer and increase the skilss of the drivers through proper training (perhaps a school program)

    • acker says:

      08:48am | 19/01/10

      Sad to say as a father who’s son is on the verge of becoming a teenager, statistically my son would be more likely to survive serving in Afghanistan or Iraq than he would driving around on Australian roads.
      But having said that and with knowledge of the continual tragedy’s..I know that I still currently sit on about 125kph on the open road and when I was young I used to drag other cars. I’m sort of leaning towards putting a 110 kph speed limiter on all cars in Australia and perhaps an 80 kph speed limiter and speed limit on all trucks over 1.5 Tonne and all vehicles towing anything.

    • Caz says:

      08:53am | 19/01/10

      My partner and I were discussing these issues last night and we both thought how many people start demanding that licenses should be pushed back till an older age limit.

      What if instead young people were taught more about driving from a YOUNGER age? Sure maybe we should still push back the actual license to drive a car to 18 but i don’t think that will help TEACH people how to drive safely and responsibly.

      Instead motor vehicle practices and training should start in the classroom from a young age. Teaching kids general road rules, attitudes and even practice in moving vehicles to gain confidence and self awareness from a younger age might start getting these big lessons to sink in?

      As they get older and close to earning their license they could take more advanced driving lessons that move beyond general road use and teaches emergency braking etc like Phil discusses above.

      Instead of punishing children and denying them the right to learn till they are older i think we actually need to trust children a little more and start the lessons and warnings from home and at school earlier on!

    • BULMKT says:

      09:30am | 19/01/10

      It’s a pity that only 25% of the fuel taxes goes back into roads.
      NZ spend 100%
      US spend just under 100%

      State and Federal Governments should carry a lot of the “Blame” for the road toll.

      The first politician who guarantees 100% of the fuel taxes raised will only be spent on building/improving our roads gets my vote.

      Re young males dying on the road. What do you expect when a 19yr is driving a high performance straight 6 (XR6) sedan?

    • Hel says:

      09:34am | 19/01/10

      Caz @ 09:53am, I think that would be a really good idea to start the training younger and leave the license age where it is (only because at 17, people really do need cars to get around to jobs etc).
      The testing system is a joke. I’m the first one to say I should not have passed my test, but because I had enough ‘points’ I got it first go. It meant that I was basically still learning to drive for six months/a year after I was allowed out on my own.
      It should be a no fault test, with harder aspects to the test. Phil nailed it “ive never heard of whole families getting wiped out with a three point turn or a reverse park.”
      Learning to drive as it is now is financially restrictive, but not skills restrictive.

    • Jade says:

      10:08am | 19/01/10

      Hel, I shouldn’t of passed my test either! = O (and this was only 5 years ago to)

    • Grant says:

      09:56am | 19/01/10

      Umm, what… 

      We’re in a golden age of road safety. 

      Road deaths have more than halved over the last 30 years.

      This is attributed to improvements in road safety including the compulsory use of seatbelts. education programs, random breath testing and speed cameras.  A major influence was the the 10 Point National Road Safety Package of 1990.

      I think people quickly forget that 20-30 years ago a lot of the population would drive around without seatbelts in a un-road worthy vehicle on bad roads whilst drunk.

      http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2008/august/aa112_2008.htm

    • Ben says:

      10:11am | 19/01/10

      I am not normally affected by reports of fatal traffic accidents. I guess maybe I’m desensitised. They seem to happen all too regularly.

      I unknowingly drove past the site of this accident on Sunday. The only evidence left that something terrible had happened was a long set of twisting skid marks and a piece of cut up tree trunk on the ground.

      Seeing the dozens of people standing around, all visibly distressed and the groups of kids holding onto each other all in tears has made a deep, lasting impression.

      I have thought about the situation a lot since then and I can’t think of an easy solution.

      My first few years of driving I drove my mum’s small 3 cylinder Daihatsu. As a young male I drove like a dickhead on (quite) a few occasions and had a couple of close calls. Thankfully my friends and I were relatively sensible as a group (ie with multiple passengers) and we discouraged outwardly dangerous driving. However if my car at the time had been more powerful and able to do more than 145km/h (Its actual top speed), I have very little doubt that I would have got myself into a fairly serious accident.

      Having said that, if I had have hit anything stationary in the Daihatsu, it would have crumpled like a tin can, so I don’t think a small old car is the safest option. Small new car? Possibly…

      Road conditions can be a factor in some cases but then in other cases have no bearing at all. (as in this accident – IMO).

      I have also heard that advanced driver training is a double edged sword. Yes you are a more competent driver and better able to save yourself in a sticky situation, but also more likely to get yourself into a sticky situation by being over confident in your own skills.

      I think attitude training has to have a big part in the learning process, as it does in the motorcycle rider training. Knowing that you have your life in your hands can be a sobering thought.

    • Bzabill says:

      10:13am | 19/01/10

      When I began driving, I couldn’t afford a new car or bike, I had to learn to do my own maintenance, and I had to pay for my own fines, repairs and running costs.  The knowledge that I would be the one paying &  fixing it if I damaged it was enough to regulate my driving.  I worked then and now, on if it’s not safe, DON’T.  It required a degree of maturity, self control and sobriety, but I’m still here, when too many contemporaries aren’t.  Attitude is everything.

    • Jade says:

      10:14am | 19/01/10

      What I think is needed is intensive driver training to all learners (compulsury)
      and more police presence on the road.  I never do the speed limit unless there is a copper driving near us.  Speed camera are nothing but a revenue raiser, they do not stop people speeding, if i see one i slow down untill i am passed then speed back up again.  maybe a look at the speeds some roads are set as well would help stop speeding as a lot of them are set way too slow.

    • BT says:

      10:16am | 19/01/10

      Perhaps extra skills and better roads would be beneficial, however I think the lack of value for their own and other people’s lives is simply an extension and demonstration of the rampant anxiety,depression and general self-absorption in young people today. It’s easy to blame politicians, roads and vehicles ( granted, when I see L & P platers driving 4WD’s I am scared witless) but essentially the psychology of the driver is what will save lives. Having the confidence to tell your friends that you will not try and fit all six of them in the car and that you aren’t going to speed to impress them is key. Caz is also correct in pointing out that these teenagers are kept overprotected for too long without learning to take any real responsibility or cop any consequences for the damage they cause. A gradual release of freedoms, rather than obsessive parental protection develops a sense of responsibility and confidence.

    • Grant says:

      01:50pm | 19/01/10

      But you fail to take in to account that today’s road toll is half what is was 30 years ago…? 

      So taking that in to consideration what you have stated and applying your theory to the statistics, then it means that your generation back then was more anxious, depressed, and self-absorped right than today’s kids right?

    • will says:

      10:22am | 19/01/10

      I wonder if the police would consider taking part in a program that involved compulsory driver education seminars for all year 10-12 students around the country, similar to sex ed seminars. These could include graphic pictures of the aftermath of speeding/drunk driver crashes, and accounts from family members who have lost loved ones, just to provide a sobering reminder of the responsibility involved to yourself and others.

      They try this approach in their road safety advertisements, but it’s so easy to change channel or get up to go to the kitchen instead. Compulsory seminars at school would force this message in to impressionable minds I think.

    • Brian says:

      10:28am | 19/01/10

      “Statistically, if you’re a parent of a boy the odds are tragically against you”

      Silly comment; it suggests that odds are against boys making it to adulthood

    • Tani says:

      04:16pm | 19/01/10

      Would that not be why the average male lifespan is shorter than the females (risk taking behaviour, a failure to look after oneself and greater genetic predisposition are the only three reasons men live less long than women).  More boys inherit disease than girls, more boys engage in risk taking behaviour (on road and off) and when they do reach adulthood - won’t look after their health.  seems pretty clear to me.

    • Julia Thornton says:

      08:46am | 20/01/10

      That is what the statistics imply, Brian.

    • Alexandra Williams says:

      02:21am | 26/01/10

      Statistically Julie is right - more boys are born than girls (it’s a biological thing to counter what then happens to the hunters in our evolutionary hunter/gatherer society) as more boys than girls die as babies, and then a boy’s life expectancy takes a dramatic dip below that of girls the same age in their late teens to 20’s. Girls have the protective effect of oestrogen - reducing certain cancers etc and adding to natural longevity - while boys seem to act like they’re six foot tall and bulletproof…it is why cameramen are predominantly young men (once they start processing what they are looking at and making editing/judgement calls, they are no use as top cameramen!). The male brain also takes longer to be chemically reorganised through puberty - often not finishing its development until in its late 20s. So add alcohol, drugs, and freedom of 4 wheels at 18 years of age, and there is a potent cocktail of factors driving around our roads.  My son (13) tolds me (39) last week that he thought I was an agressive driver . I put it down to having been raised in Qld, I learnt to drive in an automatic (because mum couldn’t drive a manual we only ever had auto family cars) on the Mt Lindesay Highway - now Summerland Way when it was a single lane road with overweight truckies avoiding the Gold Coast weighbridge and often had 6 inch deep shoulders off th edge of the bitumen for some distances. I then moved to Perth and relied on public transport, cycling (skinniest legs ever!) and the generosity of friends. Living in northern NSW I slowed down before moving to the edge of Sydney for 7 years, where I learnt to drive comfortably with a smaller personal space. This aspect worried other driver’s in Coffs Harbour (a land of roundabouts!) because even though I was comfortable - they felt that I was tailgating them.  My 7 year old daughter is less sensitive to this than my son is - she likes the thrill of speed and height - alway has with no fear tryng out the 1m & 3 m springboards on her first opportunity. Maybe she will be the one that I will have to be harder on?

    • Terry says:

      10:34am | 19/01/10

      Much like drinking to excess and gambling, I believe that irresponsible driving is ingrained in our culture. Because the families who arent affected by grief of losing a loved one in a motor vehicle accident, will laugh off poor driving habits. This is especially so at P plater level. There is a willingness to condone these things as “boys will be boys” or “they are young and having a bit of harmless fun”.  Sure everyone cries foul when a poor kid dies, but at the end of the day the “it wont happen to me” attitude kicks in and complacency takes over, and there is not a powerful enough force out there to overcome that attitude.

    • Lexi says:

      10:59am | 19/01/10

      Good point about the focus to pass your driving test being on three-point turns or reverse parks.  Perhaps the test should involve a long straight stretch of road, a loud stereo with a fast beat, a couple of mates in the back and another car continually overtaking the said test vehicle in a cat-and-mouse game.

      Wonder how many would get their Ps then?

    • Michellemac says:

      11:03am | 19/01/10

      I agree with Terry. I’m a (fairly!) sensible mum in my mid 30s now but as a younger driver I did honestly think I was invincible. As a P-Plater grew up in the rural outskirts of a capital city and pushed my Nissan Pulsar regularly to over 150 kmph and used to ‘time trial’ myself on my way to my part time job (alone). I don’t know how I didn’t kill myself or anyone else because, speed aside, the state of the roads was awful : pot holes everywhere and regular animal hazards in the form of paddock escapees and kangaroos. At 150kmph with an inexperienced driver…it makes my blood run cold.

      The only thing that stopped me was the tragic death of a (male) school friend who died in a similar crash to that at the weekend, one that was well publicised in the media and very sad. I slowed down. But really, it’s only been having kids that has truly made revise my- admittedly selfish - need for speed and risky driving. People grow up and realise they are not invincible but I don’t know how to make a 17 year old (or 25 year old!!) realise this?

    • acker says:

      11:07am | 19/01/10

      I suppose in an era when the top rating TV show in the world is a TV show called Top Gear, where the 3 hosts and guest compete to get the fastest time each episode, should we be surprised that our children are attracted to fast cars, more speed often inapropriately to the driving situation in top gear.

    • G says:

      01:54pm | 19/01/10

      Acker,

      This makes no sense, the road toll is lower now than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, so by applying your theory that Top gear directly affects people’s driving habits.  Then since the road toll is decreasing every year then in fact Top Gear has actually helped lower the road toll…?  really, is that what you think?

    • bellezyx says:

      02:59pm | 19/01/10

      How about good (ie cheap and fast) long distance and late night public transport?  Nah, too expensive, save too many lives and too environmentally friendly.

    • Pommyman says:

      07:08pm | 19/01/10

      Yes, but on Top Gear they confine it to tracks to race.

    • David says:

      11:20am | 19/01/10

      How about making it more like some continental European countries where all driver training is done by professional training schools (not Dad) and they assess when you’re ready to sit the test. It’s expensive and puts some value on the licence.

      And further, in terms of value, how about infringements carrying serious weight? Infringe during P or L periods and you don’t get another chance for 3 years. Hoon? Car impounded and destroyed on first offence.

      At the moment, we’re not serious about making driving licences things of value, rather than a right. And as long as that is the case, it means we’re not really serious about stopping tragedies like that on the weekend.

    • Emma Dilemma says:

      11:27am | 19/01/10

      Picture this: It’s nighttime. There’s practically nobody around. The straight, wide roads stretch out before you as far as the eye can see- and as far as your eyes can see, there are no police around. You’ve just gone through a green light, and you know the next set of lights is a fair way away.
      You know how fast you can take off from those lights. And it feels good. You’re driving a decent car. How awesome would it feel just to push the pedal down and let it rip?
      Most Australian drivers would have had this feeling at some point. It’s just that after this the fear kicks in. We know it’s dangerous, and the majority of us end that thought process there. We take off calmly, maybe push the speed limit by a kilometre or two at the very most. But can you blame us for the temptation? Compared to the rest of the world, we have exorbitantly large, well-made, empty roads. And the majority of us drive large high-powered cars. It’s a driver’s dream.
      Perhaps what we need is not to try to stifle this urge, but refine it. We all know speeding kills; we’ve seen enough evidence. But let’s face it, speeding is easy. You press the pedal down. How many of us really know how to handle a high-powered car? How many Australian drivers have been to a defensive driving course, and why isn’t it mandatory?
      Why not satiate the curiosity for what your car could actually do in a range of risky situations within a safe, educational environment? With more respect for the potential of your car- and the dangers involved when you explore that capacity without the proper skills- Australian drivers of all ages will become better drivers.

    • Ross Whitby says:

      11:30am | 19/01/10

      The whole thing is about attitude .Its not just speed,Its inapropreate speed. These kids have no fear . I have taken an interest in this subject for some years now and I am sick of pollies and police yelling speed caused it, I believe roadside hardwear like trees and power poles take there fair share . Even Peter Brock was taken by a tree and tell me he didnt know how to drive. You could save a lot of these deaths with the use of amco fencing and has anyone considered replacing double yellow lines with armco fencing I beleive a lot less bravado would be seen on the road when faced with armco.

    • H of SA says:

      11:35am | 19/01/10

      One thing that often amazes me is how debates about Road Safety usually ignore something you think would be obvious….driver skill.

      I’m not denying there are accidents where attitude, speed, substance abuse, alcohol bad cars and bad roads are the main ingredients in the disaster. But, driver skill is understated in the publicity about it.

      Emma advocates mandatory defensive driving courses. I whole heartedly agree and would add mandatory advanced driver courses as well (how much lower would fatalities be if everyone had experienced losing control of a vehicle on a skid pan? People would realise how easily that line is crossed then). 

      Yeah licenses would be more expensive - and therefore more respected. People would have pride in the fact they had gotten the license. They might see it as an earned privelege instead of a right to travel about at high speeds with questionable competence.

    • DocBud says:

      12:11pm | 19/01/10

      There is a simple reality that all of the above proposed solutions do not taken into account, that is: the majority of drivers of all ages are not involved in accidents. The commonly banded about twice the risk stat for younger drivers still relates to a low relative risk.

      There are people who could keep you enthralled all evening with their numerous accidents, but most would have few if any anecdotes (I’ve got two, one involving a fuel tanker reversing into me and the other involving the only other car for a tens of kilometres reversing into me in the Kalahari Desert). I have a son and a daughter who have managed to learn to drive, pass their tests and get off their Ps, all without any accidents or fines. The same applies to most, if not all, of their friends.

      The question that has to be answered is: why does the system produce drivers with adequate driving skills in the majority but produces people who should not be on the road in a minority of cases? If you cannot answer this question, it is not clear that solutions such as more advanced or earlier training will have any effect.

    • Cshell7 says:

      12:48pm | 19/01/10

      This article is clearly written by the mother of a 17 month old girl.  This issue is not about boys driving high powered ‘new’ vehicles.  Can I suggest that you were suffering ‘car envy’ when someone who left school three years after you drove up in her new Ford Lazer.  Perhaps her chosen career was sales or recruiting which enabled her to buy a new car earlier than you on your junior journalist’s salary. 

      I live in the western suburbs of Sydney.  The cheap second hand car of choice (around $1500) is a Holden Commodore of approximately 1985 vintage.  Regardless of their age these cars have 4-6 cylinders and can easily reach 140 kms per hour.  Further, they do not have air bags or ABS brakes.  Frankly, I would prefer to my boys to drive a new high powered car because of the safety features available.

      The high number of fatalities amongst young male drivers exists because young men are, generally speaking, hard wired to take risks at a certain age.  They do it to prove their manliness.  The key to this problem is education and ensuring that young men have good role models to look to when they start to consider what constitutes ‘a man’.

      Advanced driver training is helpful and in our family all three boys were sent to an advanced driving course.  Well developed driving skills may assist them if they get into trouble but they will not prevent them from behaving like a rooster around their mates.

      Unfortunately, there are a lot of older roosters out there who willingly demonstrate their manly qualities in inappropriate and dangerous ways.

      Come on guys.  No matter now sensible a role model a boy’s mother is he will never see her as a role model.  In our society, as in primitive societies, the older males are responsible for the development of the young men.  Driving habits are just one area in which we fail as a society to provide good male role modelling to our young men!

    • Davido says:

      12:57pm | 19/01/10

      Forget getting them a car. Make them walk, ride a bike or take public transport.

    • SM says:

      02:36pm | 19/01/10

      The easy solution to the problem of carnage on the roads - if you are caught going 5km or more over the speed limit, you are fined $25,000 and your licence is cancelled for 10 years.  Your wages or centrelink payments are garnished every week until the fine is paid

    • Jade says:

      03:14pm | 19/01/10

      Thats just stupid, 25000K for going 5 km over the speed limit! i would of been backrupt a long time ago.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      03:59pm | 19/01/10

      You’re a revenue-raiser’s dream SM!

      Brainwashing the gullible with their message that “speed kills” is how they get away so easily with their extortionary tactics. Of course with the percentage of accidents actually CAUSED by driving at a speed in excess of the posted limit being less than 5% of the overall tally, the truth is that their revenue raising has bugger all to to with road safety. Still, with many people like you around to willingly swallow anything they spoon-feed you, they’ll be making a fortune while avoiding genuine road safety issues for a long time to come.

    • iansand says:

      05:47pm | 19/01/10

      Only 5%.  That’s nothing.  hardly worth worrying about is it?  1500 annual death toll (approximation).  5% is 75 lives.  Why would anyone think that was significant?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:51pm | 19/01/10

      The fact is iansand, that to justify raising the massive amount of revenue they do, the public has to buy into the government’s deceptive propaganda - so the major focus has to be on that 5% at the expense of the rest. You may be perfectly comfortable with irresponsibly ignoring the MAJOR causes of road accidents just to make money, but many intelligent rational people are not.

    • LC says:

      06:02pm | 20/03/11

      Sssshhhhhhh, you’ll give the Victorian government ideas.

    • Bob H says:

      02:59pm | 19/01/10

      Some idiots drive dangerously and if we are lucky they will only kill themselves and not other innocent road users.  They are not reachable with adverts and training and such campaigning has proved to be a waste of time.  17 year olds should not be driving V6s V8s turbo hatch backs and the likes but it would be an unpopular political decision and relelection is far more important than road safety.  After all the outcry there will be another campaign and a web site to show political activity, but there is no solution to uncontrolled, dumb, adolescent behaviour.

    • acker says:

      03:00pm | 19/01/10

      @G ...so your saying car safety standards have remained static as well ?
      30 years a lot of people still didn’t wear seat belts. And airbags were not even on the design horizon

    • S.L says:

      03:43pm | 19/01/10

      @ Bob H your views are spot on in my opinion.
      How to spot a hoon…...
      1: the oblogitory Doof Doof stereo
      2:“Burnout tyres” on the rear. (Old crappy standard wheels and tyres) with nice shiny Bling on the front.
      3: Seating position so low you can barely see the driver.

      4: Always driving with atleast one part of their anatomy hanging out the window.
      5: P plates (red or green it doesn’t matter).
      6:Usually driving a stock and abused mid 80s to mid 90s Commodore or Imported Nissan.

      As I have an old Muscle Car myself I can pick who will try to line me up at the lights everytime. They all look the same, sound the same and have the same attitude. How do you legislate against that? What they have and are doing are legal if not plain silly but at night with no one around and only their mates to impress?
      A split second of stupidity is what would have caused this accident and no amount of speed limiters, expensive fines and education will stop this happening again somewhere, sometime. I just feel for the 000 guys who have to clean the mess up.

    • Greypower says:

      09:13pm | 19/01/10

      The best driver education in the world is no prevenion against peer pressure. It needs strength of character to say “I’m not getting in that car if you’re driving”  or to take away the keys of an obviously unfit driver.

      And Julia, a mobile that does not cost hundreds of dollars is a prepaid - mine costs $5 a month and is kept for emergencies or perhaps to ring home and ask if we need more milk!

    • awick27 says:

      10:39pm | 19/01/10

      “Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.”
      - Jeremy Clarkson

    • Peter T says:

      04:16am | 20/01/10

      It’s natural selection, actually, and what a shame a poor tree had to die in the process. Ah, well, that’s Darwinism…

      Realistically, how many more tax dollars need to be spent on the mindless recklessness of bogan brats who decide to ignore the road conditions, forsake basic minimum forward planning strategies required to drive a motor vehicle and simply kill themselves and others?

      Being sentimental is all rather moving, although in describing one of the fallen as ‘a good dresser’ is practically a statement in genetics…

      Too many groovy mum’n'dad-types who, by behaving like the children of their own children - instead of being responsible parents to those they are meant to be in charge of, only serve to feed this state of fatal malignancy on our roads. And a naff roadside shrine of cheap floral arrangements isn’t going to solve anything.

    • DocBud says:

      07:21am | 20/01/10

      “It’s natural selection, actually, and what a shame a poor tree had to die in the process. Ah, well, that’s Darwinism”

      What sort of ugly, twisted mentality could come up which such a response to this or any tragedy?  To belittle the deaths in this way is quite simply obscene and says so much more about the writer than it does about the subject of his vile bile.

    • Peter T says:

      08:48am | 20/01/10

      “What sort of ugly, twisted mentality could come up which such a response to this or any tragedy?”

      Not sure, DocBud, but one thing I am sure about is my (alleged) ‘ugly, twisted mentality’ is the polar opposite of a driver whose lack of respect for his passengers (of whom he knew) and total disregard for road rules ( of which several were broken?) is the primary cause of such tragedies.

      What an insult to petition state or federal governments (of whom I strongly distrust, incidentally) to ‘do something about road carnage’ when taking responsibility for the actions of their children is seemingly so little a priority among many parents today. There is no amount of upgrades or driver re-education programs to stop idiots behaving the way idiots behave: naturally. Besides, according to the idiots - as bolstered by those bastions of journalistic integrity & what is probably your regular nightly viewing: ACA & TT - it’s only ever going to be “someone else’s fault”.

    • DocBud says:

      09:35am | 20/01/10

      There is much in what you say with which I agree, Peter. I too distrust governments and dislike kneejerk reactions which are intended to show “we are doing something” than actually solve a problem. I think it is also true that parents heavily influence the attitude of their offspring. However, I equally think that the first paragraph of your original comment is despicable and lacks any indication of basic humanity.

    • Dino says:

      09:14am | 20/01/10

      Many new cars have high levels of computer technology and GPS is a reasonably inexpensive option for a car. How about all P-plate cars have a failsafe where if they are driven over 110km/h the engine cuts out for an hour. Apparently the latest GPS navigators know when the speed limit changes so the cut out could be set to work at 10km/h over the speed limit (or some figure, whatever). This would provide instant kara if you were tempted to speed. Who wants to wait an hour for the car to respond to instructions again?

      Another option, perhaps for all cars, would be to mandatory GPS reports back to a central server. Every time you travel, if you speed, a report is wirelessly sent to the cops who can issue an on-the-spot fine immediately. This would add another level of enforcement to reduce the incidence of people speeding.

      I am not really in favour of big brother controlling every aspect of our lives, but if the goal is to stop people speeding, action needs to be taken to stop people speeding. It is very unlikely you will be caught speeding on a country road.

    • DocBud says:

      10:15am | 20/01/10

      If I got instant kara everytime I drove over the speed limit I’d do it all the time:

      http://www.parade.com/celebrity/celebrity-parade/2010/0119-kara-dioguardi-american-idol.html

      PS The law recognises that there are occasionally legitimate reasons for speeding, sitting at the road side for an hour with a pregnant wife wouldn’t be fun. Nor would it be great for a lone female (please nobody suggest being raped is just desserts for driving 10km/h over the speed limit.

    • Matt says:

      03:55am | 25/01/10

      Sacrificing freedom for a little safety?

      I’m pretty sure one of the founding fathers of the US said something about people deserving neither if they did that.

      The driver deserved it, his passengers were stupid enough to get into the car with him. I feel no remorse for what happened.

      This is, however, absolutely no reason to suddenly lower speed limits, introduce even more draconian laws. People speed because breaking the law is fun, very fun. It gives you a rush.

      If speeding were truly so despicable, why do our European counterparts have much higher speed limits than us?

      You cannot stop people from breaking the law, it’s inevitable. But you cannot choose to simply blame one group of people, particularly P Platers (most of us are very safe drivers, so what if we go a little bit faster than you guys, or science forbid, actually at the speed limit as we aren’t terrified of going 1 or 2 km/h over) just because they tend to get reported on more often.

      The amount of times I’ve had near misses due to school mums not paying attention while driving their god awfully huge Lexus SUV’s, or when some ignorant middle aged driver pulls in front of me when merging without even looking is astounding. I should be glad that my car hasn’t suffered much except for a few scratches from said school mums when trying to park their battleships next to my car.

    • LC says:

      06:09pm | 20/03/11

      “I am not really in favour of big brother controlling every aspect of our lives, “

      Could’ve fooled me.

    • Peter T says:

      05:31pm | 20/01/10

      “However, I equally think that the first paragraph of your original comment is despicable and lacks any indication of basic humanity”

      Wake up to yourself, DocBud. The first paragraph of my original comment showed no disrespect. I pointed out anomalies of a situation that should not have happened and could have been prevented if the driver showed respect for his friends. Didn’t happen to notice the bottles of Jim Beam and VB left alongside the photos and flowers at the makeshift roadside memorial, did you? Birds of a feather and all that jazz, plus another example of people not taking responsibility for their own actions or those of their family and friends.

      It’s pathetic, actually. Really quite pathetic and don’t think I am sleeping well because of this or of the increasing number of deaths like this.

    • DocBud says:

      11:50pm | 20/01/10

      The first paragraph of your original post was:

      “It’s natural selection, actually, and what a shame a poor tree had to die in the process. Ah, well, that’s Darwinism…”

      It implies (and can mean nothing else) that the damage to the tree was more tragic than the death of the five young men (being a bogan, or the friend of a bogan, should not carry the death penalty) and that far from being indifferent to the deaths, you welcome them as a means of weeding out those you despise.

      So wake up to yourself, Peter, you have a very ugly, sick mentality.

    • Peter T. says:

      09:58am | 21/01/10

      DocBud, you either expect or need me to feel guilty or ashamed for some reason. Sorry, that’s not going to happen. The road is not a racetrack and road rules are there for a very good reason. I’ve driven all types of vehicles for a long time and I can and do make allowances of the greatest latitude for errors in road use. However there can be no implication associated with the sheer negligence of dangerous driving. It happens or it doesn’t happen. By completely disregarding what is the most crucial element of safe driving (and what is the leading cause of deaths on our roads) the driver of the vehicle needlessly killed those traveling in his car.

      It’s not hard.

    • DocBud says:

      10:34am | 21/01/10

      Don’t argue something we can all agree on, Peter.

      Just deal with: “It’s natural selection, actually, and what a shame a poor tree had to die in the process. Ah, well, that’s Darwinism…” That is all I object to becasue to me it is the product of a sick, callous mind. Any sensible comments you may have written afterwards cannot change that.

    • Peter T. says:

      08:34pm | 21/01/10

      Your use of ‘we’ shows desperation, DocBud, and i laughed… Why? It’s an internet forum, nothing more. While your illusory mind may mislead into thinking that millions breathlessly await your latest profound words, I can only suggest that that is not really the case.

      However before I leave I’ll encapsulate a couple of genuinely profound thoughts into a few simple words:

      #1 re. my original opinion: if nothing changes nothing changes. Time to break the cycle of behavior.

      # 2 re. “the product of a sick callous mind/weeding out those you (sic) despise (BA-HA-HA-HA Gawd I laughed at that!)/your (sic) original comment is despicable and lacks any indication of basic humanity/[what sort of] ugly, twisted mentality could come up which such a response to this or any tragedy?” (incidentally, I’ve copied & pasted all your observations to reinforce my simple yet profound thought, which is: if you spot it you’ve got it.

      Thread closed.

    • matthew says:

      04:24pm | 21/01/11

      I think that speed cameras are the cause of this crash. Think about it, if their were no speed cameras and limits on the perfectly safe highways (oh, they might lose millions in revenue) , they would have done 140 km/h on he highway instead, instead of this dangerous road.

    • Christine34Wilkerson says:

      04:51pm | 01/11/11

      One admits that life seems to be not very cheap, but people require money for different issues and not every person earns big sums cash. Therefore to get good loans and just commercial loan will be a proper way out.

 

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