As a moderator of comments for news.com.au I see a lot of intolerance expressed in the debate over asylum seeker boats, especially from a vocal minority prepared to get very nasty.

The Oceanic Viking has stirred the asylum debate

The comments from this quarter typically employ broad-brush terms of abuse to stereotype on the basis of nationality.

The targets of these hateful attacks are Australians. The most popular terms of abuse are “redneck” and “racist”.

Those commenting along these lines normally express a boundless compassion for asylum seekers.

Strangely however, they seem completely devoid of any interest in sympathetically understanding the views of their fellow citizens, without name calling.

The overwhelming sentiment I’ve seen online mirrors what opinion polls say, most want a hard line on boat people.

Undoubtedly sometimes this does reflect racism or xenophobia and a desire to keep Australia “white”.

I occasionally see these type of comments.

What is more interesting, I think, are the other reasons repeatedly given by those advocating a hard line.

The general sentiment is that the boat people are queue jumpers.

Often the strongest outrage is from people who have recently migrated or know others trying to.

Australia is not an easy country to move into, the process can be long and expensive.

So for people to sail in and simply claim residency upsets many, whatever the boat people’s circumstances.

For all our supposed larrikinism, Australians, I’d say, value law and order.

They like those who “do the right thing” and “go through the proper channels”.

The legalistic argument that asylum seekers are not jumping the queue because “there is no queue to jump” generally doesn’t wash.

There is a UN process for refugee settlement readily available offshore and it certainly puts you in a long bureaucratic queue, one that may take years.

When some asylum seekers are seen to get a special deal, as appears to have happened for those who occupied the Oceanic Viking, it looks even more unfair.

Another sentiment often expressed by those opposing asylum boats is that those onboard will become welfare bludgers and we have lots of other things to spend money on.

Australia resettles migrants with extensive welfare and social community support, teaches them English and provides training to those who can enter the workforce.

That’s all well and good because jobs are the key to upward social mobility for migrant groups.

Without plentiful jobs you are likely to perpetuate welfare slums, crime and often alienation extending into a second generation.

All the high wage and highly economically regulated countries in Europe that have relatively high and entrenched levels of unemployment have struggled with immigration.

Many make it difficult for outsiders to become full citizens.

Some, like Denmark, are even paying migrants to go back.

Many have trouble with ethnic populations, who sometimes war in tribes against the police, as in France.

Some nations have seen the rise of anti-immigration parties.

Britain with low minimum wages has had high migration but it isn’t escaping the other problems, especially during an economic downturn.

The world’s most successful immigrant society is America, at least by scale.

America has resettled the “huddled masses”, including large refugee communities and millions of illegal migrants.

This has been done by basically saying people should look after themselves, with minimum welfare offered and not even universal healthcare but usually free education.

What America traditionally provided was plenty of low wage jobs that require no skills and limited or no English.

In Australia we do not believe in low wage jobs.

So except in times of real economic boom unskilled migrants without English will have few employment prospects.

Sometimes it seems widely forgotten, even by Australian Workers Union boss Peter Howes when he talked about “Labor hero stuff” in leading the debate for a more welcoming approach, that Labor heroes of yore were leaders in keeping people out.

The unions and Labor were strong advocates of the White Australia immigration policy.

The traditional aim was to preserve Australian wages and conditions against the hordes of cheap Asian workers.

I would suggest that most people who call their fellow Australians rednecks or racists often also value award-set high wages, extensive economic regulation with universal and generous welfare.

Probably many of these same people have environmental concerns and support policies that will result in higher costs of resources and lower economic growth.

None of this is really compatible with increased humanitarian immmigration on a major scale, or perhaps greatly increased immigration of any sort.

Tightly controlled borders are the precondition of much of the Australia we know, the barrier behind which “the Lucky Country” (said with or without irony) was built.

Having our borders opened in a major way would threaten to undermine this.

We would likely see a less orderly Australia, a less equal one and perhaps a less safe one.

On the other hand it would be more interesting, more dynamic and more exciting.

Personally I’d pick the more exciting version.

I acknowledge though that I am pretty well economically protected from the real costs and pressures of increased immigration, whether that is competing for unskilled jobs or living in a potentially high crime suburb.

I suspect many of those who want the boats welcomed are in a similarly fortunate situation.

I’d also guess many are just as committed to preserving the insular “Australian way of life” as the people they call “rednecks”.

143 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • RT says:

      06:14am | 20/11/09

      You can turn the argument back on the critics, but there’s no getting around it. There is a lot of ignorant fear of immigrants behind the opposition to boat people. Xenophobia? Fear of being ‘swamped by XXXXs’? Dunno what’s behind it. But I do know that on the whole immigration has been very good to Australia for 200 years, putting aside its impact on the original inhabitants.

    • Wayne Hutchins says:

      06:31am | 20/11/09

      Here here! A good balanced article. Not like that dribble written by Anna Greer.
      Maybe I am a redneck, I don’t know but I want immigration to take place in a orderly, safe and fair fashion. And personally, I would also rather the exciting version. I am not against immigration.

    • wha happened? says:

      07:11am | 20/11/09

      Good article. I hadn’t thought about the issue that way.

      You can’t win with some people. They will argue that the US exploits refugees as cheap labour. At least George Bush’s America did. In Obama’s US refugees have been released from their terrible opressive jobs.

    • bec says:

      07:23am | 20/11/09

      In other words: waaaaaaah, it’s now worse to be accused of racism than to be subjected to it. I mean, seriously, WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL????

      I will light my Very Special Crystal Emo Tears Candle(c) for the poor, oppressed victims of this atrocity.

    • Eric says:

      07:50am | 20/11/09

      At last, some sanity in this debate.

    • Andrew says:

      07:55am | 20/11/09

      what a load of crap, most rednecks just don’‘t want the boats stopped, they want the boats sank so all on board dead, that is what the reality is

    • Woofer says:

      08:03am | 20/11/09

      I live in a rural area and am sick of stereotyping such as Lindsay Tanner’s remarks during Question Time yesterday about a bandana clad Nick Minchin leading a RURAL MILITIA of Climate Change skeptics !

      I dont agree with Nick Minchin ..but why did Tanner have to mention Rural Militia !!

      Lindsay Tanner needs look no further than his nearby suburbs such as Footscray, where IMHO he will find a collection of some of this nations biggest Rednecks; and hey are not only Anglo Saxon Males.
      There seems to be a multi cultural mixed sex melting pot of Rednecks in Western Melbourne, I would describe it as a Circus of Rednecks, many living in their fortified dwellings in Lindsay Tanners electorate, and possibly rubbing shoulders with him in his local or a nearby branch of the Labor party..like the subject of the following story.

      http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/82496

    • watty says:

      08:28am | 20/11/09

      Andrew you are one sick puppy.

      Most rednecks”? How many do you know?

      “They want the boats sank so all on board dead”

      Did you actually read this drivel before posting/

    • watty says:

      08:37am | 20/11/09

      You thnk immigration has been good for Australia,” putting aside the impact on the original inhabitants”

      You mean that immigration hasn’t improved the lot of our Aborigines?  Go live in an Aboriginal community and ask them if they agree with that sentiment.

    • Fred says:

      03:54pm | 03/12/09

      Watty that makes no sense at all.  The entire reason those communities exist (let alone in such poor conditions) are because of the immigration you speak of… you do realise that don’t you…??  You do know what colonisation did right??  White Australia??  I could keep going but I’m afraid my EYES WOULD POP OUT OF MY HEAD THAT’S HOW RIDICULOUS your comment was.

    • Josh says:

      08:53am | 20/11/09

      Wait, you moderate news.com.au comments and “redneck” is the worst you’ve seen?

      No wonder there are so many awfully racist, sexist, homophobic and just generally vile comments slipping through!

    • AFR says:

      09:04am | 20/11/09

      If “rednecks” are actually just “ordinary Aussies”, then I have grave fears for the future of my country.

    • BMJ says:

      09:13am | 20/11/09

      Australia has a complex about this issue. Offcourse they are not rednecks or racist. However, I’m amazed how a couple hundred boat people moves the polls more than a government putting us in serious debt. It’s about perspective.

    • Laurie says:

      09:24am | 20/11/09

      That’s normal   anyone who doesn’t agree with the pussy left wing of Australia and USA are decried for having an opinion. Belittling people for their opinions is common practice for the left. This country needs people to speak up to moderate the benevolent do-gooders leading us down a path that lessens this countries values. I doubt that people have great difficulty with immigrant people other than queue jumpers Queue jumpers probably should do some penance for their behaviour. But people should understand that the so-called redneck wont let the country down when they are needed. They deserve a democratic opinion and freedom of speech which seems to be disappearing from our democracy.

    • David says:

      09:34am | 20/11/09

      Who cares who comes in now or later , legal or illegal , we can’t be any worse off [ or better off ] as we are now !
      Let them all in on a first come first in basis and over time they will integrate and create a new Australia . It will become , as it should , a peace loving polyglot nation . The old Australia is battling to retain it’s isolationist nationalism and ‘’ strine ‘’ mentality .
      The resources are here to develop and we need the population to develop them instead of selling them overseas .
      Bring on a brave new Australia with a renewed ‘’ Snowy Mountains ‘’ type scheme .
      Who cares if the immigrants are Christian , Jewish , Muslim or Calathumpian ! The odd terrorist that will get thru will eventually self destruct anyway .
      I say look ahead 200 yrs or so to the ‘’ Republic of Australia ‘’

    • Robbie says:

      05:51pm | 21/01/10

      ‘‘The odd terrorist that will get thru will eventually self destruct anyway’‘.Great in theory David,unfortunately when they do self destruct they tend to take tens,if not hundreds if not thousands of innocent people with them.Look ahead to 200 years or so to the’‘Republic of Australia’’ David,if you ever become Immigration Minister I give us 5 years max.

    • RJB says:

      09:39am | 20/11/09

      Well known left wing commentators such as David Marr, Philip Adams and Michael Carlton have consistantly spat venom at those that oppose their view point. They allow their emmotions to run unchecked and identify their rants as compassion. This flaw excludes any logical evaluation of immigration and seeks only to shout down and demean those that demand proper process. Well written David, hopefully we can continue to publicly debate all matters of lawful and unlawful immigration, without the name tags.

    • iansand says:

      09:42am | 20/11/09

      We need a redneck support network to let the poor little rednecks know that everything will be all right. Maybe some funding from the government.  And beer.  Lots of beer.  Nasty people should not call them names.  I never understood the depth of their suffering until now.

    • Dave says:

      09:42am | 20/11/09

      Well written article mate - regardless of your viewpoint it’s nice to be able to present that viewpoint in a rational, grown up manner, without name calling.
      Incidentally, I agree with Wayne Hutchins - immigration is a good thing, provided it occurs in an orderly fashion.

    • Sherlock says:

      09:43am | 20/11/09

      Trotting out the racist or redneck term is meant to stifle any debate. It’s a tactic used by people who are having difficulty developing a cogent argument that backs their position.

      It’s a tactic loved by the left who are often so positive that their opinion is the only genuine one that they’re not only surprised but they are outraged when somebody has the gall to express a different one.

      Furthermore, so positive are they that they’re correct they haven’t even bothered to ask themselves why. So when somebody challenges their position they’re so unprepared to argue their side that’s it’s easier to pull out the “R” word then actually debate the issue.

    • Obviously says:

      09:44am | 20/11/09

      Eric says: 07:50am | 20/11/09
            At last, some sanity in this debate.

      Right. Of course. Anyone who agrees with you is sane.
      That makes perfect sense.

    • Super D says:

      10:00am | 20/11/09

      You have done well to point out the flaws of those who look at each issue on a single issue basis.  We can only have a generous welfare system by restricting access to it.  We can only have controlled population growth by restricting immigration.  We can only have a high minimum wage and low unemployment by restricitng immigration to limit the size of the workforce.  I personally would be happy to open the borders to all comers.  So long as we get rid of the welfare system, universal education and healthcare, minimum housing standards and employment standards, not to mention abolishing minimum wages.  We would of course have to ramp up law and order spending and be willing introduce and regularly utilise some pretty harsh punishments like corporal and capital punishment to keep the subsistence masses under control.  On the whole though many of us would benefit from having a cheap desperate labor force willing to do menial labor for a pittance.  Perhaps though we should just keep things as they are and restrict the ability of asylum seekers / economic migrants to enter Australia at their choice rather than ours.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:13am | 20/11/09

      Perhaps some people believe that australia’s marginal environment can only support 22-25 million people. Environmentalist, yes. Redneck and Racist? I don’t think so…..

    • H of SA says:

      10:13am | 20/11/09

      Its not great to insult other people that’s true - perhaps the pro-refugee crowd simply doesn’t have any nice terms for people who ACTUALLY believe there is a que to be jumped in some countries. People are that uniformed of world events that they honestly think people are coming because economic hardship, because when the news of the genocide in Sri Lanka was on, they switched channels to vote on Australian Idol or some other myopic kiss my southern cross tatoo “yay Australia is great and so is our beer” bogan programming. Its frustrating to find this myopic viewpoint and I guess people lash out with terms like redneck.

    • H of SA says:

      10:15am | 20/11/09

      @ Bec, haha yeah. “It’s so hard being a middle class white person living in Australia boooohoooooo!” The nasty refugees might take away my wealth leaving me only in the top 2% of wealth in the world instead of the top 1%

    • TLC says:

      10:24am | 20/11/09

      I wrote response once in defence of the asylum seekers. The attack I got from “rednecks” was shock to me. If they could or knew my address I think I would be in hospital by now.
      It is sad that we can not have a intelligent argument and express our opinions without getting personal.
      This proves that we are immature and limited in vocabulary by not being able to say what we mean without going to extremes.
      The people migration existed from day one, when God kicked us from Eden.
      Now we have to find a solution to this problem to the best of our capability.
      Panic, fear and forgetting basic human feelings are things we should worry about in our own character.
      We must protect our borders and so far I think the government is doing the best job it can under the circumstances.
      Australia has the biggest border to protect not only from the refugees.
      The stand of with the Ocean Viking is good example, they had to stand up to Indonesia and offload the refugees there as they have been rescued in Indonesian Waters.
      If the were rescued in Australian Territorial Waters they would had to be brought to Christmas Island.
      Imagine what Opposition would say If government brought them straight here.
      Imagine the letters you would receive from you readers.
      Cool heads must prevail and respect shown in any arguments.
      We are rednecks and racist no more then any other country,actually there are countries that are very racist.
      If white or Christian person would like to migrate there forget it , it would be easier to get to Hell then to those countries.
      Calling names will get us nowhere.

    • Kevin Rennie says:

      10:26am | 20/11/09

      If only we were talking about immigration alone. Asylum seekers are not migrants who can just be paid to go home. Wars and authoritarian persecution are not orderly affairs.

      Perhaps, on your argument, we should only accept educated asylum seekers who can fill the skills shortage.

    • bob says:

      10:31am | 20/11/09

      Congratulations to Andrew for the most petulant, one-eyed and mentally unstable comment regarding this debate I have read so far. Please feel free to join us in the real world sometime soon mate.

    • Angela says:

      10:46am | 20/11/09

      Your kidding right, since immigration started in this country this attitude has been the norm.

      As for the current crop of boat people I am sorry but they should of been sent back to where they came from they Blackmailed the current government and they fell for it.

      And whats wrong with not wanting any more people in Australia, where I live the Indians are taking over, sorry but I cannot agree with the comment Rednecks at all. When my parents came here it was a white majority and now unfortunately its starting to look like England.

      And we all know what a fine place that has become. And if that makes me racist well sorry but its the true. You will not get political correctness on this. My parents were asked to come to this country they did escape on some boat and pay all that money if they can afford to drop 20,000 dollars then they are not poor to begin with.

    • cityboy says:

      10:53am | 20/11/09

      I have not seen any discussion on the fact that there is a very large Tamil enclave on the southern tip of India; just a short boat ride from northern Shi Lanka. As far as I know there is no internal strife or civil unrest there.
      It is no richer than the rest of India, which is to say, it too is poor. Therein lies the problem with the Oceanic Viking refugees. Not only do they understandably wish to escape persecution, they plan to give an easily accessable, but poor, safe haven the flick, and try to enter Australia by any means possible. While ‘asperational’,  this is starting to look like a lifestyle decision more than anything else. Their refugee claims should be assessed being open to this possibility. Is it time for Rudd to have a long chat with the Indian PM?

    • Tim says:

      11:04am | 20/11/09

      Ah Bec,
      I forgot bigotry only works in one direction. How silly of me.

    • monkeytypist says:

      11:15am | 20/11/09

      Two things: firstly, the whole point about saying “aw, poor Aussies, being called rednecks, how hurtful and hateful” is a rather stupidly obvious equation of apples and oranges.  If I call someone who wants refugee boats machine-gunned a racist, they will get over it. And I won’t even have them machine-gunned.  Equating racist prejudice and abuse with people who call it out is a really sad way of privileging the view of a mythical “good decent, honest, plain-spoken Aussie” over anyone who doesn’t fit into that arbitrary category.

      Secondly: Let’s get some perspective.  There aren’t thousands of people coming to Australian on boats.  There are barely even hundreds.  And - please stop me if I’m being legalistic - *the bulk of people who arrive by boat are impartially determined to be genuine refugees, who Australia, like any other country on earth, has a legal and moral obligation to provide shelter for*.  We can settle these refugees easily, and in fact we do.  This has little or nothing to do with the idea of letting hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers into Australia to provide low-value labour - as far as I’m aware there’s not a single union or refugee advocate anywhere that supports it.  The comparative handful of refugees that Australia welcomes and settles don’t have any major influence on (a) our industrial relations practices or (b) our environmental sustainability, both of which, any Fine Upstanding Decent Non-Redneck Aussie Citizen should be able to recognise, are entirely different issues.

    • DJG says:

      11:16am | 20/11/09

      A bizzare tale. The press have turned immigration into the ridiculous debate we are having. We are not being swamped, stop pretending we are. Immigration has always included asylum seekers as part of the mix. If they dont convince authorities that they are genuine, they are sent home. Please lets stop the crap and debate issues that actually affect our lives.

    • Treg says:

      11:18am | 20/11/09

      I agree with a lot of this, but I doubt you will sway the people you are talking about - many of them are also blanketly anti-american and refuse to acknowledge that as a form of bigotry or hypocrisy.

    • Margaret Gray says:

      11:30am | 20/11/09

      America asks its citizens to identify themselves as Americans above all else.

      Australia does not.

      That is why Australia is not - and will never be - a ‘melting pot’.

      It is also the ethnic elephant in the room.

      Decades of active government separatist policy and special consideration to ‘migrants’ legal or otherwise has created the abominable racial and cultural morass that we now find ourselves in.

      As long as Australia continues to allow and foster its new citizens to be hyphenated and put their new country last, this problem will continue to fester like a boil.

      Sadly the legitimate concerns of ordinary Australians to this plight only provides cultural ammunition to the luvvies who see it as irrefutable proof of our “dark racist heart”.

    • Helen says:

      11:48am | 20/11/09

      In other words: waaaaaaah, it’s now worse to be accused of racism than to be subjected to it. I mean, seriously, WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL????

      I will light my Very Special Crystal Emo Tears Candle(c) for the poor, oppressed victims of this atrocity.

      What Bec said, couldn’t have put it better. And it’s ironic that you would use racially charged phrases like “hordes of cheap Asian workrs” in an article purporting to be about how the poor white anglo saxon “Aussies” are racially vilified. Oh, boo-hoo.

    • mcdazz says:

      12:23pm | 20/11/09

      David Southwell needs a good dose of reality.  I’ve read comments from people who are happy that asylum seekers are shot, drowned or happy for them to be abused by governments.  And then there are those that are just downright racist.

      David Southwells belief is that those who are disgusted by the attitudes of Australians rubbing their hands with glee when asylum seekers are shot or drowned shouldn’t hurt the feelings of those who are rejoicing.

      Sad David - very, very sad.

      David might be surprised to know that not all those who find this rejoicing disgusting support an open door policy and nor do we think the critics of asylum seekers are necessarily racists or rednecks.

      Most of us just believe that asylum seekers should be treated humanely and in accordance with International Law - something clearly above Davids head.

      Australia is a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention, and as such is obliged to protect those who seek and claim asylum - Indonesia on the other hand (where the majority of asylum seekers seem to be coming from) is NOT a signatory and therefore doesn’t have to process refugees.

      We also know that Indonesia is not above human rights abuses as witnessed in East and West Papua etc - is it any wonder that asylum seekers don’t want to remain in Indonesia where they have no rights?

      Where they might have to remain for years without any hope?  Living in squalid conditions inside makeshift refugee camps?

    • AT says:

      12:24pm | 20/11/09

      Of all the hostile, ignorant and malignant comments you moderate, you take greatest offence at “ordinary Australians” being called rednecks!?

      I don’t know what the bulk of your article is meant to prove — it seems to be nothing more than a laundry list of cherry-picked “facts” all of which could be disputed if one was of that mind.

      Ultimately, all you seem to be doing is taking issue with Anglos calling other Anglos rednecks. In your world order the entire asylum seeker issue is primarily about how Anglo authorities deal with it; Aust, UK, US, Australian unions, ALP (with token mention of Denmark and France). Is that all there is to it?

      And what exactly do you mean by “ordinary Australians”? Judging from this piece you mean all those middle-class skilled workers around the country living in the equivalent of Sydney’s eastern and northern suburbs Anglo enclaves. Is your greatest concern that your fellow “ordinary Australians” in a “similarly fortunate situation” as yours who aren’t so lowly as to be “competing for unskilled jobs or living in a potentially high crime suburb” have the audacity to refer to other “ordinary Australians” as rednecks?

      Have you ever thought to cast your “ordinary Australian” critical gaze beyond your ‘orderly, equal, safe Australia’ to the extraordinary(?) Australia of ‘unskilled labour’? To this “potentially high crime suburb” Australia of yours which you seem to equate with the influx of migrants?

      You may or may not emerge from such an expedition with a different perspective, but at least you won’t be so readily dismissed as an insular prat conducting an insular debate with your fellow insular prats.

      Also, you’ll avoid being credited as the person responsible for making the phrase “ordinary Australian” a euphemism for redneck.

    • H of SA says:

      12:27pm | 20/11/09

      Its stunning genuinely amazing. Would you ever have believed this before it came true before your eyes:

      “People can genuinely feel sorry for themselves for being labelled rednecks yet simultaneously advocate sending people back to their genocide.”

      Reality reall is stranger than fiction. Whats behind this view? Do people genuinely not realise other people have any value?

    • Another Andrew says:

      12:29pm | 20/11/09

      Thanks for a balanced article on the issue. I resent “F**k Off We’re Full” types, and admit this leads me to stereotype people with reasonable anti-immigration opinions.
      But it’s the same FOWF people that claim we don’t have enough water to support a bigger population.
      Their newfound interest on both water and humanitarian issues is dubious. As if they understand the issues surrounding water supply, the merits of groundwater vs desalination, water pump efficiency, greywater, recycling and so on.
      If they were serious about population levels, they would focus on legal immigration, which dwarfs the number of boat people, and also address the issue of visa overstayers.
      Or maybe they’re just redneck racists!

    • haggis says:

      12:43pm | 20/11/09

      My old golfing mate and his wife (in his mid-seventies) have come to Australia to join their sons, both wealthy, successful businessmen and international sportsmen. My mate is going through due process . . . . which entails his meeting the Australian Government’s demand for $80,000 as an entry fee.! He is finding this a tad difficult in view of the GFC. For that amount of money he could probably have bought a wooden boat and snuck in - to enjoy all the extraordinary benefits this country bestows on refugees . . . if he were assessed and deemed genuine . . . .

    • Garry says:

      12:57pm | 20/11/09

      I love sterotyping, I envisage all the illegal boat lovers as middle class good suburbs people, with tree lined homes, recyle boxes for everything including recyleboxes for the used recycleboxes, small plants strewn around as evidence of their environment loving, (not forgetting the lightbulb saving), they drive four wheel drive cars in the city to drive the kids to school - but we go to the wineries once a month that’s out of the city isn’t it. They subscribe to save the world newsletters and perhaps, perhaps send money monthly to a sponsored child organisation. They read the newspapers and watch the news and accept everything is a true representation except when they hear a rumour that something was done to upset a poor child in a boat and then the country has failed human rights and that must be stopped, ‘darling pass the low fat milk my freshly made rainforest alliance for free trading coffee is too strong and then I am blogging my anger at the rednecks of Australia’

      Now that’s a terrible sterotype and as long as we continue to throw angry stupid names at each other what are we going to achieve?

      I think the only people who should be sterotyped are our pollies who rather than discuss as human beings act like petulant spoilt kids.  Our parliament must be of amusement to the world. Lets act as human beings, and lead with talk and then decision as a nation.

    • AdamC says:

      12:57pm | 20/11/09

      As someone with a neck as red as the fires of hell and who wears slurs like racist, redneck, ignorant such-and-such like badges of hard-core bogan honour, let me explain my reservations, and those of my xenophobic peers, about the current increase in the number of asylum-seekers arriving by boat.

      One: I am worried that the asylum process has become a scam run by dodgy types who encourage people to destroy their identity documents. (This also raises security issues, especially with the current wave of Tamils, despite Kruddy’s howls to the contrary.) As everyone knows, uncultured plebeians love documents!

      Two: The typical practice of sabotaging one’s boat in order to provoke a rescue by Australian authorities smacks of emotional blackmail. We insular provincials don’t like being blackmailed, you know.

      Three: Australia’s willingness to re-settle boat arrivals means that we become the destination of choice in our region, rather than sharing the burden with our neighbours. This seems a little unfair to us uneducated bigots.

      So, there you have them, the redneck proletariat’s asylum-seeker concerns. What a disgraceful exercise in prejudice and racism. Avert your eyes, children!

    • Daniel says:

      01:06pm | 20/11/09

      Australia is full of red necks. You only have to travel a few hours west of Sydney to realise that.

    • matt says:

      01:18pm | 20/11/09

      I think if you were a serious and mature writer you would have used this space to educate people about the refugee process. You could have mentioned that there aren’t queues, but camps and only some of these camps are anywhere near being properly equipped by the UN to process people in any orderly fashion. You could have mentioned that 98% of asylum seekers are found to be genuine refugees and that there are no proper refugee processing facilities in Sri Lanka. You also could have taken our neighbours to task for not signing up to the UN Refugee Convention.

      What you did though was to stoop to the lowest common denominator and take people’s comments on News as fact. I think that’s really irresponsible and you should know better.  You’ve tacitly given people a free ride to let their prejudices get the better of them in the name of being a culture warrior. Well done, you’re a champ.

      ps. it’s Paul Howse, not Peter.

    • Mr Hyde says:

      01:21pm | 20/11/09

      Margaret Gray:11:30am - you make the claim about special privileges for migrants . We’d both be very interested to learn of any special benefits she might be entitled to that are not available to all Australians equally. Would you mind elaborating?
      Laurie 09:24am - seems to me you are belittling people of ‘the left’ whose views you disagree with, on the grounds that they in turn belittle people whose views they disagree with. Strange.

    • SM says:

      01:32pm | 20/11/09

      The thing about those that say we should welcome all migrants with open arms is that they categorise anyone who doesn’t wholly subscribe to that view as inhumane.  Or a redneck. 

      They’re so totally convinced that their own position is 100% right and proper, that they permeate this strange aura of perceived superiority as they browbeat the rest of us poor (redneck) fools

      They are at one extreme end of the scale. At the opposite end are the actual, legitimate, fully blown rednecks and racists

      Solutions are rarely found at either end of a scale.  As usual, it’s quite likely that the best option lies somewhere in between

    • stu says:

      01:37pm | 20/11/09

      David seems to confuse “immigration” with “refugees” - he juxtaposes the word “migrants” when he actually means “refugees”. There is a significant difference and to not delineate between the two is either inept or deliberate obfuscation.

      Also, he talks about “open borders” - when has ANYONE ever suggested Australia either has, or should have, open borders.

    • H of SA says:

      01:46pm | 20/11/09

      What Matt @ 1:18 said. Media commentators deliberatley misinforming the public is an absolute scandal. I have very little doubt David Southwell is well aware there are no queues. I have little doubt he knows the facts. But he refuses to print them.

      This refusal is a betrayal of Australian society by the 4th estate. If you have the capacity for self reflection - please, please ask yourself why you obscure the facts you know about the situation.

      Or if its ignorance rather than deliberate misrepresentation, please ask yourself why you haven’t bothered to learn them before commenting.

      Journalists frequently end up the top of Australia’s least trusted professions - so its in your interests to actually start reporting fact instead of agenda.

    • nic says:

      02:07pm | 20/11/09

      @TLC, you wrote:

      “I wrote response once in defence of the asylum seekers. The attack I got from “rednecks” was shock to me. If they could or knew my address I think I would be in hospital by now.
      It is sad that we can not have a intelligent argument and express our opinions without getting personal”.

      Then you finished by saying:
      “Calling names will get us nowhere.”

      Have a good think about this eh?

    • Ricky says:

      02:19pm | 20/11/09

      Well said Angelo.Its a funny thing, but it seems its only white anglo saxons who can be rascist in this country.If you are a minority, you can pretty much say what you want & the bleeding hearts will still support you & say you were ’ taken out of context’.To be frank, the great failed multicultural experiment has only been around for the last twenty years or so, & many people i know have seen the negative impact this has had on Australian society & culture & are sick of it.There are parts of Sydney now where you can be abused for being white(i have seen this first hand), but if you voice concern over this suddelnly you are ’ Rascist’.Personally i am glad that Australians are becoming more vocal about the future of their nation, & who they let in.Thats their right.

    • acker says:

      02:41pm | 20/11/09

      @Daniel says:01:06pm | 20/11/09

      Australia is full of red necks. You only have to travel a few hours west of Sydney to realise that.

      Don’t waste your petrol Daniel most of the real loopy ones live within a 50 kilometer radius of Sydney and Melbourne CBD’s

      City slicker rednecks just spread that rumor of bigger and better rednecks being out the bush as a fig leaf attempt to hide their red-neckedness

    • Guinness says:

      02:44pm | 20/11/09

      I agree that it is wrong to immediately jump to the term racist or redneck, merely because it completely alienates the other person in the discussion. Personally I think there needs to be more time taken to understanding why people have certain views and discussing it constructively rather than having a volleying match of name-calling, whether it be ‘lefty’, ‘bleeding-heart’, ‘racist’ or ‘redneck’.

      There is a lot to be said for regarding the other person you’re talking to as a human being and not falling into the easy rhythm of simply hating someone who disagrees with you.

      Personally I have no problem with refugees or immigration- I think the phrase ‘queue jumpers’ is very misleading. I also think people have really forgotten what the word ‘refugees’ really means. But I also think that, whilst it’s easy to let one’s frustration and anger overwhelm how one talks to somebody else, ultimately such a conversation has very little chance of being constructive.

      If you speak to someone with scorn or contempt and make a valid point, the chance of them considering it and actually backing down from their position is very low as, naturally, they will be feeling extremely defensive and issues of pride (that we all have) will also get in the way.

      As ‘racist’ is such a controversial term now and will be rejected even by white supremacy groups (who often prefer to call themselves nationalists), sometimes it can be better to explain why something is racist, as opposed to just throwing the term at someone.

      Anyway, that’s just my opinion- and even then I’m guilty of just ranting and having a go at people as well!! Darn…

    • marley says:

      03:01pm | 20/11/09

      I think the whole point of this article is that it is possible to have legitimate concerns about both refugee and immigration issues without being a redneck or a racist.

      And it is just as possible to be uninformed on both refugee and immigration issues whether you are a redneck racist rural Australian or a latte-sipping urban sophisticate.

      I keep hearing that there are no queues in the refugee camps.  Australia accepts something like 13,000 people a year in its offshore program; Canada accepts a similar number; the USA a much larger number.  Most other countries do not take people out of the camps.  So, very few possibilities for those in the camps - refugees apply for resettlement, the UN puts forward names to match the numbers a country will take in a year, and the rest wait till next year.  And if boat arrivals in Indonesia take an unplanned 1000 of those positions, that means the refugees sitting in camps in Pakistan or Sudan will have to wait another year or another decade for resettlement.  You may not call that a queue, but I do.  Sure, the obvious solution is to increase the number of people we take out of the camps - a position I support - but the debate is never about that.  It’s about simple minded slogans -“boat people are queue jumpers” vs “there is no queue.”  Both arguments are not only wrong, but pointless. 

      On the larger issue of migration, there are plenty of valid reasons for questioning whether current levels of intake are appropriate, and they do not require one to be a racist. For example, how are the states and cities coping with historically high numbers of new migrants?  Are housing, infrastructure, the schools. the hospitals, able to cope?  Are we actually selecting the right people or are the new arrivals going into dead-end jobs because their skills aren’t needed?  Is the pressure of population growth exceeding the capacity of a fragile environment to cope? And those migrants - are they younger than the Australian population average, in which case they will help fund our retirement, or are they the same age, in which case we’ve got another issue to worry about.

      I don’t know the answer to these questions, as I suspect most people do not.  But the fact that I’m asking them does not make me a racist, it makes me a pragmatist.

    • EssJay says:

      03:38pm | 20/11/09

      watty says: 08:28am | 20/11/09: Like it or not, Andrew is pretty much on the mark. If I’d received a buck for every time I’ve heard the rednecks say “Turn ‘em around - let ‘em sink”, I’d be rich by now. In my opinion, those opposed to asylum seekers/refugees who come by boat ARE racist rednecks. Where is the same indignation at the 45,000+ who arrived by plane last year and overstayed their visa? You won’t hear it because most of those were white people. But to be perfectly honest, I would much rather accept a refugee/asylum seeker who risked life and limb fleeing tyranny on an unseaworthy vessel, than a dishonest visitor who deliberately overstayed their visa. The Opposition recently announced they were tough on people smugglers and said that they would return to TPVs, allow refugees/asylum seekers to work (and thus pay tax), but deny them access to welfare and public housing. But in the event that they could not work, would pay them an allowance so that they, as Sharman Stone put it, “wouldn’t starve” - that comment sounding more like an afterthought rather than being truly compassionate. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that PUNISHING the asylum seekers/refugees? It’s got nothing to do with people smugglers at all, so how is it tough on them? Quite frankly, the racist rednecks don’t like the terms because the truth hurts!

    • H of SA says:

      03:50pm | 20/11/09

      Wow, people call them criminals for trying to get their family out of a country where they would be killed for their ethnicity. People put that much hate out there against vulnerable people and are surprised when a term like “redneck” comes back. When they put that much hate into the world is it really a surprise when the debate gets more vicious?

      Similarly, when people refuse to become informed, demonstrated by the use terms like “illegal” and “queue jumper” is it any wonder when people consider you mis or uninformed? Lazy opinions = less credible opinons.

      Even a small amount of research into Australia’s laws and obligations we signed onto discredits these terms and by association those who use them. Its no surprise those still using these terms are becoming marginalised from the debate. Don’t keep informed, don’t epexct to be listened to. Its the boy who called wolf. Or shall we say, boy who called terrorist?

    • TLC says:

      03:59pm | 20/11/09

      @Nic.
      This is why I wrote “redneck"in”.......”.
      Have a good think about that.OK.

    • phil says:

      04:18pm | 20/11/09

      Disgustingly, Fox News in the US and now News Ltd here, have discovered in order to sell their low brow disinformation services, they’ve learnt that fostering, pandering and confirming redneck ignorance does the trick just fine.  It is the base ingredients in the recipe for making news sickly entertaining, outrageous to some, controversial and gospel to others.  There’s no coincidence here that the same person owns them and that it sucks up to the right for the same gullible reasons.  Ruppert learnt a long time ago It makes for good economics for them to incite prejudge and blow up issues that evoke the ignorant on both sides on any moral issue.  Then sit back and watch the come-in spinner intelligentsia rip into the rednecks with reason and rationality, pitting each side against each other for nothing more than the sake of profit, and a super-rich spectator sport.  However, watch out scum, there’s a growing part of public now aware of this perverted strategy that pervades our media and society.  In time, enough of us will become outraged enough to truly understand what you represent, the worst of human nature, true evil.  Unforgivably and bewilderingly, people like you David are the willing pawns in this sick sideshow of self-interest, greed and political ignorance, which then begs the questions, how do you sleep at night and do the pills help?

    • Mr Hyde says:

      04:30pm | 20/11/09

      Margaret Gray, your 11:30 email mentioned Decades of ...special consideration to ‘migrants’ . When pressed for evidence, you cite a single current case where claim and denial about special treatment has been made as though this proves your sweeping statement. It doesn’t.
      So, again, please, where is the evidence of ‘decades of special treatment’ for migrants. Where can an immigrant get some of that? Once you tell me, I’ll try to ‘keep up’, promise.
      Or will you pretend you’re too busy to have seen this, now?

    • Tom says:

      06:06pm | 20/11/09

      David I do not agree with your argument but either way you, and the majority of the mediaa nd the public, exaggerate the size of the problem and so do a major dissservice to the debate. In the past 2 years around 1000 asylum seekers have landed on our shores. Hardly a major problem. Of the 200,000 immigrants Australia takes annually, 13,500 are refugees. On the latest immigration department data 90% of refugees come by plane and overstay their visas. Why is this not reported on?

      What media organisations like yours do, by of incessant reporting, is to whip up a xenophobic fervour in people who do not have the time or inclination to find out the full truth of the situation. You take the issue way out of proportion and as a result the debate is skewed and ill-informed.

      People on boats excites xenophobia and racism. News organisation perpetuate this by refusing to report on the full situation. As a result the public do not a have a good grasp on the situation, and revert to so-called redneck or racist views. Whatever arguments you spouting suddenly seem less inviting when put in context: one you conveniently forget to place your arguments into.

      You and others like you are failing the Australian public through lazy reporting and even worse, outright lies.

    • Liz says:

      06:24pm | 20/11/09

      Unfortunately many of the people who are so vocally in support of allowing everyone in a boat who arrives in Australian waters to come and live in Australia are rather ignorant of the facts. Arriving in a boat does NOT make one a refugee. Yes, they will claim to be refugees, but on the whole they are not. They are economic migrants making a lifestyle choice. The claims that it’s fair to get your family out of a place where you will be killed because of your ethnicity (sounds like Australia in the not too distant future actually) do not apply to the people arriving in Australian waters. For a start they are overwhelmingly males who arrive. They do not bring families with them. Presumably it was better to leave the women and children (apart from the handful you need for the cameras) behind. Where are these people being killed because of their ethnicity? Under international law the people arriving on Australia’s shores are generally not bona fide refugees. And just because the discussion is centred around boat people, some of you idiots seem to think that the larger issue of illegals coming in by plane, and of legal immigration are not hot topics. They are. They are not THE SAME topic. Don’t criticise others because they stick to the damned topic. And stop with this garbage, uneducated assumption that anyone who is against immigration at this point is a right winger. Many are not. I am a life long socialist leaning latte drinker who knows climate change to be an issue and I am very concerned with the future of our environment. I would shut the doors on immigration, remove Australia from its UN refugee treaty obligations, apply a zero population growth strategy and rescind the baby bonus on my first day in office if I were prime minister. Day two would start to see illegals being found and removed from the country and day three would see non-Australian-born individuals stripped of their citizenship if they committed a crime, and then be deported to their country of origin, with other immigrants being offered bonuses to go back where they came from. Some of you might recoil in horror, but this has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with protecting Australians and their way of life. And the minute a major political party institutes these policies they will find themselves swept to victory in the next election.

    • Dave Nobbs says:

      07:24pm | 20/11/09

      I have tried to understand what David Southwell’s beef is here: is it language (after all, there are just as many “do-gooder”, “wog-lover” epithets that get thrown around)? But then he carries on about immigration, managing to confuse the treatment of legimate refugees with Australia’s immigration policy. All you can say is that David Southwell has demonstrated his ignorance of the issue, he can talk as much as he likes about trade unions (I bet he’s on an AWA as he works for Rupert Murdoch) and other non-core side issues. But the fact is - neither the Government or the Opposition have a policy that will stop boats. And neither has a policy that does much to stop illegal immigration by those who fly in to this country.

    • acker says:

      07:46pm | 20/11/09

      @marley says:03:01pm | 20/11/09
      And it is just as possible to be uninformed on both refugee and immigration issues whether you are a redneck racist rural Australian or a latte-sipping urban sophisticate

      marley: again you are showing redneck urban ignorance.

      Australia is a huge place with many rural areas, yet urbanites like yourself seem to require some kind of feel good notion of labelling the 99.99999% of Australia you don’t live in or probably have never visited as REDNECK

      SO YOU DONT FEEL LIKE A REDNECK - ALTHOUGH I RECKON YOU PROBABLY ARE.

      Perhaps your a Metrosexual Redneck ...like John Travolta in Urban Cowboy.

    • davido says:

      08:12pm | 20/11/09

      A lot of heat and not much light.

      Meanwhile my Indian mates still have their fake companies set up to sponsor every man and his dog into the country.

      Keep looking the wrong way people… the majority (like 90+%) of people you dont want living in this country come through legitimate channels.

    • laurie says:

      08:31pm | 20/11/09

      Your comment: Being redneck may be no more than adhering to what you have always been taught. Queue jumping is somethng we are taught not to do.
      Giving Roman Polanski a fair go is counter to everythng we have been taught e.g. illegal behaviour.  The government at the stroke of a pen can make legal what we have always been taught is illegal. The average australian is taught the difference between right and wrong but often when you adhere to what you have been taught you are redneck or a nanny-statist or racist or something derogatry. A bit of understanding wouldnt hurt.

    • Vicki PS says:

      01:54am | 21/11/09

      The only special consideration to migrants that I’m aware of (and I’m married to an English immigrant) is the magical availability of sweeping sweetheart arrangements to multimillionaire “business migrants”.  But I suppose it depends on whether you regard accessing the same health, education and welfare supports as the rest of the population as ‘special consideration’.

    • Vicki PS says:

      01:55am | 21/11/09

      “BLEEDING HEARTS AND DO-GOODERS! THE NEW REDNECK TERM FOR ORDINARY AUSTRALIANS”.  Reads well as a headline, doesn’t it?

    • What says:

      04:23am | 21/11/09

      @H of SA

      Truer words have never been spoken. But you have to ask yourself - what sells papers. Flood gates being open to thousands of incoming refugee boats? Or a handful of asylum seekers escaping from persecution.

      The front page of the DT will provide an obvious answer any day of the week.

    • Paul says:

      07:33am | 21/11/09

      David, I have called you a redneck on a number of occasions on The Punch (read comments on other articles) because I thought you were feeding a refugee crises where their was none and not keeping our obligations under international law foremost in the debate, and not focussing on the human stories. (Eric even backed you up claiming the term Redneck was UnPC!) Plus, I continue to think you are using marginalised people for your own benefit, like Howard, and like the people smugglers. But you are no ordinary Aussie you are a major media influencer.  And I don’t know what closeted PC community you are from David but where I’m from, the culturally-correct, endearing term for the opposite of commie, greenie or pinko, has ALWAYS been Redneck. One size of PC, does not fit all, and I refuse to be called rascist by you David, just because you feel like censoring words out of the dictionary or lingo!  A redneck has a limited view of world and until you acknowledge what a real refugee crisis looks like and respect the horrific journeys many undertake you can stay in your inner city enclave whining into your skinny latte. You are a better journalist than this.

    • Redneck gal says:

      09:18am | 21/11/09

      Could you define what you mean by more interesting, more dynamic,  and more exciting?
      Are riots interesting? Is being abused by Muslim louts because you are an ordinary Australian woman wearing ordinary Australian shorts, tops, bikinis etc, exciting?

    • marley says:

      10:25am | 21/11/09

      Acker - I think you may have missed the irony in my comment. 

      Labels are great for cornflakes, not so good for people.  And when you make sweeping assumptions that people must be racist rednecks or latte-swilling bleeding hearts because they happen to have a point of view which differs from your own, you miss the opportunity to actually look at the arguments on either side of the issue.  And the whole boat people thing is being subsumed by this kind of cheap rhetoric from both sides, while the real issue - how to manage our international obligations to those who actually reach Australian territory while still honouring or moral (but not legal) committment to resettle those in the camps - is being ignored.

      That was my point.

      By the way, I live in rural Australia.

    • Jane says:

      10:56am | 21/11/09

      You forgot to mention WATER.

    • Brett says:

      10:56am | 21/11/09

      You sum it up when you say “pretty well economically protected”. The fact is majority of migrants are entering Australia are not moving into lush suburbs, and are not competing for the high skill jobs. So the most affected persons are the lower socioeconomic Australians. The problem is their voice is rarely allowed in the mainstream media because it often contains politically incorrect opinions. Personally I don’t like the materialisation of ethnic suburbs where there is little to no integration with the traditional ideals of Australia. I feel sorry for the immigrant school children who wish to integrate but their parents push their own cultural values on them. People come here because we have been a safe and friendly country. My opinion is that is we keep bringing in people in that haven’t shared those same ideals, in 50 years it will be a very different Australia. I think people in Australia are likely to become more self interested, with less confidence in the system.
      The term racist is overused and abused by those with an agenda of self interest. There are differences between races of people, some are more violent, some are more intelligent and some more athletic. Why can’t we accept that? The World is not an equal playing field. I do find one thing quite amusing though, it will always be wrong to class people by sex, race, age. But classing people by the amount of money they have will always exist. 
      It would upset a lot of elite people if we had anti-classism laws.
      It’s a shame the way we are headed.

    • Bethany says:

      12:05pm | 21/11/09

      I wonder if the core issue isn’t culture rather than race?

    • SPR says:

      12:18pm | 21/11/09

      Interesting… I’m born and brought up in australia by parents that are Aussies from India (plane-people,highly educated, hard working, productively add to our society). The “Rednecks” are unhappy at being called what they are, but not a week goes by when my love and pride in my country are called to question because of the colour of my skin. i am 36 years old and on the whole put these frequent comments aside due to ignorance and hypocrisy. But to say Aussies aren’t rednecks is a joke; all countries are nationalistic, but we have gotten extremely paranoid over the last decade due to govt policy. I grew up in a country town where we were one of the townsfolk. BTW, all those who tell me to “f*&K off to your own country” should consider doing the same. Australia doesn’t need you or your dole bludging. In fact, why not just stop welfare, health and education for not only the refugees, but to Aussies those who haven’t contributed to our society, and maybe they would “f*&k off” to where their rellies came from. The media has a lot to answer for…we are NOT a huge terrorist risk, and our lack of attack isn’t due to brilliant government policies/screening, its due to no one really giving a crap about about us globally when compared to the other targets. Also, if the boaties were white, we’d be accepting them with open arms, as we always have done and continue to do.

    • Ricky says:

      01:05pm | 21/11/09

      Liz, very well said.I can tell you that if you were running for prime minister & were prepared to follow through on the things you listed you would be a shoe in(just about everyone i know would vote for you).Its just a pity our useless, & gutless politicians are to busy pandering to minorities.Australia & its culture are being destroyed by groups of immigrants who have no intention of ever assimilating.

    • Spike Minogue says:

      01:50pm | 21/11/09

      OK so ordinary Australians are white anglo saxon stock. If someone from Greek stock belts a muslim… is that a hate crime still. I am sick of being branded a racist based on my colour I am not. Just don’t want to let everyone in. Screen them I say and then if they are genuine refugees I say welcome aboard. Most greenies are racists because they disagree with me. Thats the criteria isn’t it?

    • James says:

      01:51pm | 21/11/09

      The United Nations does not define Racism. They do define Racial Discrimination. Do I believe I believe in racial discrimination: No I do not.
      But I do believe they are certain characteristics that are more common in ethic groups. So I could be called prejudice. I do believe black people are better at the 100mt sprint. I believe the Chinese race in more intelligent than other races. These are my positive beliefs. So I could be called racist too.
      But I don’t care because I know what I see and hear and that forms my experiences, and no politician or media outlet will force me to think otherwise.

    • Coola Mi says:

      01:59pm | 21/11/09

      Did David stop to check the true status of the boat people including people with criminal records. Did these people pay a fortune to get a place on a boat to come to Australia? Would these people have paid good money to jump on a boat if it went to India? Did these people try India which is only an hour away from their supposed ” mother country”?The truth is that they “supposedly” risked life and limb to escape their govt not to opt for another third world country where thay could have lived safely. They have gone one step further to opt for a country where thay are not only safe but economically looked after for life ??? Of course they are not political refugees but economical oppurtunists who understand how the UN Refufee mechanisms work and how to hold Australia to ransom. This is not a racist issue but an issue based on the reality of the facts which the Rudd Govt is chosing to ignore in order to score brownie points on the universal stage at the cost of the Australian tax payers. Let’s not idealise this issue but view it pragmatically for what it is worth for if we don’t it is only the tip of the ice berg and if no govt. worth their political salt can handle it then they should just hand to reins a leader who can. It is not about being racist but about doing the right thing for all true Australians no matter what their country of origin or ethinicity currently is and if the present govt. cannot act according to the will of its electorate they do not have the moral right to remain in power.

    • Laurie says:

      02:32pm | 21/11/09

      What Paul seems to mean is that anyone who doesnt vote Labor or Green is a Redneck.

    • cats says:

      03:10pm | 21/11/09

      i think the Australian Government should settle them in the outback. They are used to the heat where they come from anyway. They should not be settled near the coast and the big cities as they are getting way too full. I don’t think what i’m saying is unfair, living in outback australia is far better than where they came from.

    • davido says:

      03:13pm | 21/11/09

      If you really want to experience racism come and live in India like I do.
      As someone born and brought up in Australia you cannot have experienced racism until you live in India.

    • Dean says:

      03:36pm | 21/11/09

      The term racist and redneck are now overused and aimed towards moderates who don’t aspire to the Greens view that Australia should be indiscriminately compassionate. There are those who have overtly racist beliefs or those you could be justified in using the term redneck but when it gets to the point where people who are clearly migrants voting Liberal are being called redneck for taking a moderate stance, the term has lost its meaning for cheap political gain.

    • Brenton says:

      04:30pm | 21/11/09

      The real issue and one that is rarely discussed is that you Anglo Saxon Germanic European types are dying out.  When you go your laws, your social values, your arts, science and philosophies go with you.

      The more immigration from non European countries you have the harder it is for you to find partners as you are now finding. At least ones that will carry you forward as an identifiable race.

      You may argue that in the future other cultures and races will fill the gap left behind by your passing.  That may be true, but to date it has not occurred. When we start seeing new sciences, new art forms, new styles of music and fashion, new social philosophies, new medicines coming from other cultures in anything like the measure that currently comes from the “white” races, then perhaps we can simply draw a line across the page as was done at the end of the Roman Era and start a whole new chapter.

      Unfortunately you are literally close to being put on the endangered list, and the weirdest thing of all is that you are cheering on your own demise. Its not your current numbers that are still reasonably high, its your population replacement rate that has dropped below sustainable levels.

      You chose this path, now you need to manage the transition to the world you have created within which you will have little part. Your weapons arsenals, particularly of the nuclear type will within a century be in the hands of populations within which you are a minority.  You need to manage this.  Your law will be influenced to an increasing degree by Islamic and Asian traditions. That will also be hard on you. Many many things that are part of the Western tradition will change as you settle in to minority status and the values and morals of other races become more prominant.

      It is a terrible shame after thousands of years to have you dwindle away like this. But unfortunately you can’t un-spill the ink.  It is now a done thing.

      There was a reason for the entrenched racism of the Europeans. Perhaps you should have understand what it was and why it was there before you removed it.

    • Brenton's self-appointed counselor says:

      03:17am | 22/01/10

      *clap clap* would like to draw a picture?

    • James says:

      04:33pm | 21/11/09

      All it takes to be labelled a “racist redneck” is to have an opinion that differs to the agenda of any snivel-libitarian do-gooder minority group.
      If you think Australia should not reward people for using illegal methods to circumvent the migration process - well thats it , within a short time there will be someone labelling you Racist , Biggotted and probably Redneck. I mean what the hell , if you are a refugee in fear for the lives of yourself and your family , then no-one begrudges you a safe haven. But you don’t get to insist (and I don’t think GENUINE REFUGEES would) on , blackmail by taking over a countries ships and pick which country is sooooo lucky to save you. Thats not a refugee thats just someone who wants a free ride on the back of the work of others… there’s a word I’m lookin for to describe this action , now what was it , oh yeah now I’ve got it and it fits perfectly - “PARASITIC”, There ya go , come on label me a racist etc . IF THAT’S what I am then I’d rather be that than a SUCKER , stupid enough to believe every hard luck story. These people are laughing at us and you morons want to keep giving them MORE MORE MORE and our own LESS LESS LESS

    • Mr Hyde says:

      05:20pm | 21/11/09

      Still waiting, Margaret Gray, for your list of all those special benefits to migrants that have been provided for decades, according to your claim. I mean, I’ll send my family down to Centrelink or the Dept of Immigration or wherever it is available from next week, if only you’ll tell me what we are entitled to that those who were born here are not, and have been missing out on.

    • acker says:

      05:25pm | 21/11/09

      @marley

      in reply to your comment {By the way, I live in rural Australia.}

      Well then I am astounded you think that gives you the authority to label a sweeping cross section of rural Australians REDNECK

      Again you seem to be like a few others who like to label people from about 99.999999% of this country where you do not live as Rednecks, because it suits the stereotype image you have already boxed them in.

      Marley you seem to be ticking all the right boxes to be described as a Redneck Racist…. IMHO wink

    • AT says:

      05:42pm | 21/11/09

      David Southwell wrote:

      “...I see a lot of intolerance…from a vocal minority prepared to get very nasty…this quarter typically employ broad-brush terms of abuse to stereotype on the basis of nationality…they seem completely devoid of any interest in sympathetically understanding the views of their fellow citizens, without name calling…”

      Your piece seems to me to have drawn a range and balance of comments typical for The Punch. Everything from Wayne Hutchins’ “dribble” deriding satire to the ‘it’s all KRudd’s fault’ folk to the infantile posturing with a few reasoned comments subsumed somewhere in amongst it all.

      David, do you agree this is a fairly typical gallery of posts for The Punch and if so, do you still stand by your words?

      Seriously, I’d like to know what you think.

    • Paul says:

      06:57am | 22/11/09

      @laurie No what Im saying to you and David, is see a bit more of your own country and lingo rather than dictating PC boganism from the inner city. (And Im a tarzan swinging voter btw - never let a pollie get to comfortable I say, whatever brand they are!).  Using Davids new PC rules calling an Aussie a ‘Wigga’ is rascist. And singing Midnight Oils ‘Redneck Wonderland’ is rascist.

    • Shannon Coles says:

      08:04am | 22/11/09

      A vocal minority? Mate I think you`d better lay off the crackpipe! Prior to September 11th I was very tolerant, but those days are finished! My wife is Japanese and previous girlfriends have been black.  But I`m racist and proud of it! All this talk of political corrrectness makes me want to puke! Embrace our culture or get out! NO, to multiculturalism! YES, to multiracialism! REDNECK and proud!

    • marley says:

      10:25am | 22/11/09

      Acker - I can only suggest that you look up the definition of irony, and then re-read both my comments.  I am NOT calling rural Australians “rednecks,“or urban Australians “bleeding hearts” - I am criticising everyone who puts those kinds of simplistic labels on people.  Do you get it now?

    • acker says:

      03:35pm | 22/11/09

      @marley

      Funny how the only major large scale racial riot in Australia occured at Cronulla a suburb of Sydney.

      And you were calling rural Australians rednecks in your earlier posts.

      The only thing I get now is that you are a back-pedalling redneck marley

    • Jeremy harris says:

      04:15pm | 22/11/09

      Rednecks?  I prefer the words ‘ignorant majority’ myself.  Or maybe people are racist or just don’t care.  I would like to know what these people would say if a bout load of white Americans came here anyway.

    • Dalma Smithy says:

      06:08pm | 22/11/09

      What a load of bally-ho .Rednecks are prevalent in any society. The Alabama redneck is the product of the deep South. Made up of improverished, disgrunted, illiterate white trash, who after the Civil War, which they lost, were unhappy with the come-upperness of the Afro-American slaves, who were liberated. The slaves took their housing, jobs, even their women, which inevitably led to the KKK. The lynch mobs prevailed under the guise of a Democratic USA - freedom for All !
      Meanwhile, in Oz, we absolutely embrace all things American, i.e Kentucky Fried, Lisa Manelli, Cocacola,MacDonalds, Britanny Spears, ad finitium. Our History is endemic with Racism, from the White Australian Policy, Kanaka deportation, Lambing Flat massacre, Gold Rush, stolen generation, Vietnamese Boat arrivals,Cranulla Riots, Indian student bashings, etc The pathetic sordid list is endless. Yet we conveniently ignore our sanitised History at our peril.Gillard is right, for once - teach our children an unabridged version. Warts and all. Really, it doesn’t make a pretty picture to all you REDNECKS.

    • marley says:

      07:38pm | 22/11/09

      Acker - I surrender.  I obviously have not made my point clear, and that is my fault entirely. I should have said “it is just as possible to be uninformed on both refugee and immigration issues whether you are a “redneck racist rural Australian” or a “latte-sipping urban sophisticate” .  With quotation marks.  To indicate that these are sloppy slogans used by left and right to denigrate people who hold different views.  As I said, labels work on breakfast cereals but not on people.

      And in a sense, you have proved my entire argument -and David Southwell’s. You are so focussed on the slur (entirely unintended) that you perceive, that you have totally ignored the actual points I raised on refugee and immigration issues.

      And if you don’t get this, and if you don’t get that I find the simplistic labelling of people to be abhorrent, then there’s nothing more I can say.

    • Dan says:

      06:16am | 23/11/09

      Shannon, you may be racist and proud of it and you may be redneck and proud of it, but do not for one moment think that others share your culture. I certainly don’t.

    • DWest says:

      08:41am | 23/11/09

      What about some sympathetic understanding for your fellow citizens David? While people were howling about a few hundred boat people, at least another few hundred ordinary Australians became homeless, to face a sweltering summer in Oz.  Did you report on that? Do you plan to? Is that reverse rascism - white discriminating against white - or not standing up for white citizens refugee’d onto our own streets?

    • EssJay says:

      09:31am | 23/11/09

      To Spike Minogue says: 01:50pm | 21/11/09: It has been my experience that those who state “I am not a racist, BUT ... ” invariably are.

    • acker says:

      09:35am | 23/11/09

      @marley

      I’m pretty disgusted about the xenophobe hysteria that gets whipped up by trailing politicians whenever a boat full of refugees hits the coast line of the Australian 4th estate.

      But I would like to think urban Australian’s of all cultures have moved on from some perception that they are any less racist, redneck, xenophobe, class concious, elitist, sexist, humorous, stupid or closer to god/creator…..than any one else from rural areas or other countries.

      There is just as much of the above in the people at any street coffee lounge in Brunswick Street Fitzroy as there is those at the public bar of the Barcoo Hotel Blackall.

    • Stu says:

      12:56pm | 23/11/09

      Nobody has a ‘right” to go to another country…..nobody.  You can apply to…....but no country “has” to let you go and live in “their” country…...and that includes Australians.  The majority of people think of this as a race issue…......which they are making it because…....the politically correct are actually racists….....racist against white…...regardless of their own skin color.  If a few boat loads of whites were rolling up every few weeks and we knocked them back you wouldn’t have a problem with that

    • EssJay says:

      01:13pm | 23/11/09

      To Stu says: 12:56pm | 23/11/09: That’s crap Stu. Those of us who believe that those who are opposed to refugees/asylum seekers are racist, do so for good reason. Where is the indignation of the racists/rednecks at the 45,000+ people who arrived by plane last year and overstayed their visas? Answer: There isn’t any because most of those people were WHITE. Most of the refugees/asylum seekers are not white, hence why there are defamed, vilified and denigrated by the rednecks. Whether we like it or not, there is a large section of our population that is racist and that’s why One Nation became popular. The Coalition are playing to the rednecks because that’s the only way they know to garner some support when you don’t have any policies - fear, smear and scare. Even Malcolm Fraser came out last week and declared that the Coalition were playing to the rednecks. Refugees/asylum seekers have every right to flee terror, persecution and/or death and they have every right to apply to us or any other country for protection. The UN Charter for Refugees guarantees them those rights and as a signatory to it, we are obligated to comply - whether you like it nor not.

    • H of SA says:

      02:35pm | 23/11/09

      @What. I very agree. We know that the media likes a good piece of conflict for a start, and stereotyping is simpler and easier for a jounalist than actually investigating an issue. The shockingly lowest common denominator style reporting of assylum seeker issues is just the latest example.

      Its really sad because I think journalism does have the potential to be a worthy profession. If journalist have a passion for the truth and for justice they can play an important part of society. But as polling of Australias least trusted professions consitently shows - we have very little respect for journalist as they are lumped in with politicians at the the very untrustworthy end of the spectrum.

      One sad thing is I see little concern about this from journalists. I mean, their profession is being dragged throuhg the mud and I rarely hear any concern uttered over it. I can remember Paul Kelly at the Australian bemoning the state of Aussie journalism but that was years ago.

      By and large, journalists have utterly capitulated to the business pressures of conentrated ownership. None of them stand up to the absurd bias in the News Corp media.

      Journalism is the one profession in this country that has declining standards. Doctors, Nurses, Social Workers, Lawyers….are all committed to ongoing professional development and improving standards. Journalism…...its name is becoming mud and it doesn’t seem to care.

    • marley says:

      04:50pm | 23/11/09

      EssJay - I keep hearing that no one has a problem with the 45,000 overstayers because they’re white.  I did a bit of checking - in 2008 there were about 48,000 overstayers.  The top ten source countries accounted for almost 30,000 of those overstayers - and you know what, they weren’t all “white.”  True, the US, the UK and Germany were well up in the rankings (though I certainly wouldn’t assume all Americans are white) - but China was second in the top ten, which was rounded out by countries like Malaysia, Korea, Indonesia, India, the Philippines and Japan. 
      So whatever the reasons that the public is less outraged by visa overstayers than by boat people, I don’t think it’s as simple as racism.

      As to the rights of refugees, well, I think neither you nor Stu are entirely correct.  An asylum seeker who arrives in Australia and who meets the UN Convention definition does indeed have an absolute right to our protection under the Convention.  No ifs, ands, or buts. And I would certainly argue that anyone who gets into Australian waters, whether in an excised zone or not, is “in Australia,” . 

      Most countries (and thankfully Australia is now one of them) grant permanent resettlement to those do manage to get ashore and who meet the refugee definition. 

      But refugees who are not in Australia do not have the right either to our protection or to permanent resettlement here.  They may request it, we may grant it (as we do every year via the offshore programs operating which take people out of the camps in Sudan and Pakistan), but it is not a right.  To quote the UNHCR’s own handbook “no country is legally obliged to resettle refugees [from third countries].”  The fact that we choose to do so, and in significant numbers, makes Australia one of only a handful of resettlement countries.  And the fact that the program runs pretty smoothly, and with no outrage from the general public, suggests to me again that racism is not the entire reason for the furore over boat people.

      All I’m really trying to say is that,  not everyone who has concernsa about the boat people is necessarily a racist.  I think the whole issue is far more nuanced and complex than that.

    • Brett says:

      05:12pm | 23/11/09

      To acker, I don’t like walking through Auburn and seeing so many women dressed in black burqa’s , I don’t like walking through Cabramatta and seeing all the Chinese billboards, or that 90% of taxi drivers in Melbourne are Indian.
      I prefer the traditional Australian style neighborhoods, the family values, women in bikinis, singing Christmas carols in school. I like the Western European Culture. I hate the Multicultural idea. 1 Culture, the Australian Culture. So I’m a bad person according to you. Well I don’t care and you’re never going to change my mind.

    • Ricky says:

      05:40pm | 23/11/09

      Take a bow Brett.You just about summed it up for every person i know or have spoken to on the subject.VERY well said.

    • Julie Cowdroy says:

      08:23am | 24/11/09

      Asylum seekers and refugees will arrive in an orderly fashion as soon as wars occur in an orderly fashion.

    • Geoff says:

      09:22am | 24/11/09

      MY view is quite simple. Anyone is welcome to come to this country and settle in and become a positive contributor to the country and society in which we, that already live here, are custom to enjoying. that includes our Health, housing ,welfare , Legal and social systems
      DON’T come here on a boat without any ID, DON’T come here and want everyone else to fit in with your way of life at the expense of what we see as our way of life, DON’T bring the conflict and issues you left behind in your country into this country and impose them onto us. DON’T behave in an unlawful manner
      Now if that is being racist so be it.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      01:53pm | 24/11/09

      I resent the terms racist and redneck being automatically thrown at people who express concerns about asylum seeking and immigration. Those terms spring from the same ignorant and base assumptions that drive true xenophobia and racisim. Since 911, Australia has been saturated by a media scare campaign that has invoked a great deal of fear and sensitivity around border protection and the notion of cultural and mercenary infiltration. The media feeds us with images of war, terrorism and racial violence on a daily basis. We hear about troops in foreign deployments being killed and injured defending the territories that some asylum seekers are fleeing.  All of this is fed to us in conjunction with grimmer and grimmer economic and environmental forecasts that has fuelled a strong protectionist mentality in Australia around employment, welfare and natural resources. Unless I am very naïve, it would be a small minority of Australians (if any) prepared to engage in or condone active racial hatred or discrimination against anybody seeking refuge here. Nor would too many be unsympathetic of a refugee’s plight if exposed to it face-to-face. Rigorous and responsible management of immigration by both Labor and Liberal governments over time is a contributing factor to the nation being what it is today as is the right and means to express opinions without fear of harm or reprisal, including being labelled undeservedly.

    • Maxine says:

      03:16pm | 24/11/09

      Redneck

    • James says:

      03:38pm | 24/11/09

      We need a form of Godwin’s Law for use of the word redneck in Australia.  Godwin’s Law states that, as an online discussion gets longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler or the Nazi’s approaches 1, and thus we should avoid such comparisons where possible because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.  Yes, I am aware of the irony of the fact my discussing Godwin’s Law in this online discussion has invoked it, but still.  If we could somehow limit the use of terms like redneck and racist when debating immigration issues to instances where genuine racism or redneckery (or whatever you want to call it) occurs, then the debate would be able to considerably advance, as we could then recognise the racists for what they are, marginalise them, and continue a rational debate amongst the adults.
      And on Godwin’s Law - keep your eyes open and watch for it folks, its amazing how it never fails.  I have seen Nazi/fascist comparisons raised on all sorts of inane topics - even things like traffic lights and speed cameras.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      04:59pm | 24/11/09

      You should learn to read, Maxine. Some creativity wouldn’t go astray either.

    • H of SA says:

      05:51pm | 24/11/09

      Clearly some on hear aren’t too upset with the label racist…only redneck seems to upset them.

      Perhaps this was a misread of the anti-refugee crowd. Some are clearly (even in this thread) proud to be anti-people from another country.

      So they don’t mind being anti-other races/nationalities. Its only the idea they are ignorant hicks that upsets them.

      Sad that being racist doesn’t bother them…

    • acker says:

      06:35pm | 24/11/09

      @brett

      I don’t realy give a rats rse how you live your life, I’m just making comments on a website.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      10:55am | 25/11/09

      I think the term Redneck has a few different connotations. It used to apply to pig shooting F-Truck drivers with spot lights and antennas and g-strings on the rear vision mirror. It seems to have evolved into a discriminatory or derogatory term for people with conservative political leanings. Either way, its use on this blog is pretty loose and in poor form – insulting somebody for their opinion is no different to insulting somebody on the basis of their nationality. YUK.

    • Nicole says:

      11:05am | 25/11/09

      Maxine, everyone has the right to be a little empty between the ears, but you just abuse the privilege.

    • John walker says:

      04:08pm | 25/11/09

      The problem is, a lot of ethnic groups , in Australia, do not, will not, cannot assimilate. And as much as we try to understand this, it’s just the way it is. You can’t intellectualize it, it just is. Hence we have “china town” etc in Australia,
      I have friends who have experienced first hand, on a business level, racism against caucasians when trying to set up businesses in countries such as Vietnam, yet the radical do-gooders in this country (probably unemployed intellectuals with way too much time on their hands) choose to ignore such things, and continue to run down their own, I believe Australians to be the most racially tolerant people on earth, the only time they resent others coming here, is when they refuse to assimiliate, and abuse the privileges that a lot of good people died fighting for. Shame on such idiots like Maxine!

    • Margaret Guthrie says:

      05:07pm | 25/11/09

      Where would this country be without the rich tapestry of culture introduced by ethnic groups. Most of us are happy to enjoy the variety of ethnic festivals and restaurants while others do nothing but “bag” them; yet Australia’s population is based on the influx of immigrants. The danger, I believe, is that people smugglers are unscrupulous con men out for a quick buck, taking money from desperate people with a promise they know that they are unlikely to be able to keep. None of these boat people have been qualified as genuine asylum seekers so, how do we detect possible terrorists among them?

      We should be concerned about keeping the country safe - if not as exciting -  and anyone who is granted the privilege of living here, should have to adhere to our customs as we would have to do in their country.

    • Helen says:

      09:20pm | 25/11/09

      “Liz” 20/11/2009, if I ever became Prime Minister, I’d come down hard on any elements who misused the language of environmentalism as a figleaf to cover their racism.

    • Helen says:

      09:43pm | 25/11/09

      I love the way the people who are complaining about the use of the word “redneck” still bandy words about like “bleeding heart”, “do-gooder”, “latte leftist etc. You don’t like it when you’re on the receiving end, do you. Some might think you would learn something from that, but no.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      12:07pm | 26/11/09

      I’d rather be known as a ‘bleeding heart’ than a redneck any day but I don’t know about ‘Do Gooder.’ Bleeding heart implies irrepressible empathy and compassion for the unfortunate. There’s nothing wrong with that. Labelling somebody a ‘Do Gooder’ suggests they have a meddling, self-serving benefactor mentality that enables them to feel good about themselves because (a) they’re in a better position than the people or the cause they’re do gooding about and (b), they get off on the idea of looking like paragons of virtue and benevolence to the rest of the world. That’s not to say there aren’t true humanitarians in the community devoting time and effort to the plight of the less fortunate. But there’d be less of those than there would be keyboard thumping, armchair do-gooders, banging out piles of outdated, left-wing rhetoric spiced with labels like Redneck and Racist and achieving the same warm and fuzzy,  feel good result.

      Now, where’s my friend Maxine? If she’s out feeding the homeless, I’ll eat my words!

    • meoldchina says:

      01:37pm | 26/11/09

      hey doc, wanna go to a bar and discuss?

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      03:16pm | 26/11/09

      Look, normally I would but I’ve got a One Nation Party meeting….

    • The Frankston weirdo says:

      10:11pm | 26/11/09

      We are muppets like Sri Lankan reugees, like the derro in the park. Unless you were were born into elite wealth or power or like the boss of Fortescue - have overcome Powerball like odds, your destiny was assured as soon as you were born. Birth, submission, taxes, work, debt, death. I think pollies should be replaced with software. I detest being controlled by car salesmen and lawyers. I’d luv to hand every Canberra pollie his two weeks notice to f.ck off - turn Parliament House into a rug emporium

    • jon mcewen says:

      11:31am | 02/12/09

      One Nation!!! Where is my dear old friend, Pauline…..how about that drink?

    • Katie says:

      05:17pm | 02/12/09

      What a great article!  In my view completely accurate.  I want to know why an anti-boat people arguement is instantly associated with racism… I think many of these throwing around the word red-neck are walking around with their eyes shut.  So many inter-cultural/race marriages and friendships, since the very beginning of Australia, through out Australia, cities and country.  We Australians expect that immigrants enjoy thier own original culture while respecting our laws and understanding our society standards.  People earn respect not from the colour of their skin, or origin of birth, or religion, but their response to society!

    • Shockadelic says:

      12:24am | 04/12/09

      This article first shows there are legitimate economic, environmental and social problems with immigration, then ends by giving borderless migration the thumbs up?!

      It is not “ignorant” to oppose the utopian one-worlders. It is they who are ignorant.
      The fact is there is no global culture, no universal people. Never has been.

      There are French people and Korean people and Turkish people.
      Individuals only have identities within the context of the nation/ethnicity.
      A Korean outside Korea has lost their context. If they are now in Australia, then Australia is the context in which they must define themselves.
      To encourage them to continue defining themselves by a context they no longer live in is INSANE. It is utterly delusional.

      And the historical realities that led to the development of different cultures occured in conjuntion with the development of different biologies (race). This is not “ignorance”. Quite the opposite, it is the blatantly obvious facts of history.

      So if we’re going to have immigrants at all, we should choose the most similar racially and culturally. To do otherwise is to create problems and difficulties that needn’t even exist.

    • Migrant_Child says:

      08:36am | 04/12/09

      Calling me a ‘redneck’ is about as intelligent as me calling you a ‘feel good bleeding heart’ ... solves nothing.

      Reality is that Multi-Racial society’s can work really well, particularly when despite language difference, there are no ‘religious tensions’. What does not work well (check Europe) is Mult-Culture (particularly religious) because the differences and individual cultural demands cannot be accomodated without the majority of the population being disadvantaged in some way.

      I am the child of a mother who migrated here with her family in the 1950s from Cyprus, so I think this entitles me to a view. Hard for me to be against migration really isn’t it, but I am against the current program. We have no jobs, choked infrastructure and a housing shortage. In terms of the boats, there is a queue; join it. The wealthy from these countries are on the boats, not the poor. Supporting the people smugglers solves nothing. Send all boats back and they will join the queue which should be the only way in. Oh yes, I am just heartless ... what is the emoticon for rolling your eyes?

      My Grandparents came into a situation in the 1950s of full employment where they needed low-skilled workers. They were moved to where the jobs were. There was no ‘dole’. There were no forms in Cypriat / Greek at any government agency. My grandmother travelled to Melbourne from Gippsland twice a week to learn English. My grandfather went to work for the electricity commission doing hard labour.

      In my view of the world, they did it tough but my 92 year old grandfather will tell you that Australia is the greatest country in the world. They don’t think they did it tough at all. They integrated into Australian society willingly, spoke the language and respected the ‘way of life’. I think it probably helped that they had a Christian basis for their ‘view of the world’. They had many Australians who they were good friends with. In fact, their house was always full of people from all kinds of backgrounds who spoke many varieties of english, much of it ‘broken’ by various accents.

      What I would like, is for those of you who are in favour to go and find a nice Muslim street somewhere like Lakemba in Sydney (or similar group elsewhere) and move yourself and your family there. Then in a couple of months, let’s find out if it matters what your view of the worlds is. Is it important whether you integrate or not, how you view and treat women, and how you feel about people who are not of your religion.

      I think the ‘rednecks’ like me, are sick of apologising to people like you for thinking that Australia has a culture of its own that is worth protecting. It is the bitching of the ‘cultural representatives’, the enclaves, the crime associated with various ethnic groups, their general unwillingness to integrate, and their clear agenda of changing Australia into some form of what they came from.

      So, the one policy I’d like to see if every state plus the federal government offer is ‘The One-Way Airfaires Policy’. Free flights out of Australia to people who’d rather be in Lebanon, somewhere in the middle east, Samoa or even New Zealand (lose the car stickers guys). If it’s that great, do us all a favour and get on a plane and go there. Seriously!

      Otherwise, please feel welcome to become part of our great country (by the front door to be fair) and contribute. We have a proud Christian tradition and basis for our laws. We do not apologise for this, nor will we change them for you.

      A ‘fair go’ is a 2 way street.

    • Ricky says:

      03:52pm | 04/12/09

      Brilliant, & very well said.Especially the part that says we will NOT change to suit other cultures.You pretty much just summed up the way myself, & every one i know feels.Take a bow.

    • Alex says:

      09:12am | 04/12/09

      It’s not a legalistic point that there is no queue to jump, it’s a matter of pure logic that there is indeed a queue.  I suspect some people think that just because they can’t see a line of people at a counter that there is no queue.  The fact is that there is a small number of places and a very large number of aspirants.  That makes a queue, and if this inconvenient truth ruins the argument of the “hands across the water” brigade, then they can always resort to name calling, as usual.

    • James says:

      09:55am | 04/12/09

      That is rubbish Shockadelic.  I am Irish, but have lived in Australia since I was three years old.  Yet I refuse to lose my Irish culture, and adopt your pale imitation of American culture that people refer to as “Australian”.  I prefer to spend as much time with my extended family as possible, I refuse to break those old-country connections just because most Aussies don’t care about their cousins and aunts and grandparents.  When I’m drunk, I sing Republican songs, not Cold Chisel.  When we have family meals, we eat cabbage and bacon, not burn meat on a barbecue.  And what’s more, I refuse to apologise for this.  This is my country too, but I am just as proud of my culture as you are of yours.  Live with it, my friend.

    • Migrant_Child says:

      11:08am | 04/12/09

      James, thank you for demonstrating the problem so well.

      Actually, this is Australia, not Ireland. It’s not bastardised American culture, it’s ours and we dont’ apologise for it. This is obviously not ‘your country too’. You seem to be interested in staking a claim over the land on behalf of Ireland. You are a couple of hundred years late.

      Whether you enjoy a BBQ or prefer to eat cabbage, nobody cares.  Not everyone likes Cold Chisel (or remembers them),  and not everyone avoids their extended family.

      Sounds like Ireland has everything you want ... which begs the question doesn’t it.

      Off you go ...

    • Shockadelic says:

      12:46am | 05/12/09

      “I have lived in Australia since I was three years old”. Then you’re not really Irish, as you have no memory and little experience of real authentic Irishness. You know what you’ve been told. You know the artifacts, the songs, the food. That’s not “culture”. Culture is the whole social reality, not just the artifacts that reality produces. And the only place “Irishness” has any actual reality is in Ireland (and only some parts of it).
      Since Ireland has been significantly Anglicised and Australia is significantly based on Irish origins, there’s not that much difference anyway between the two realities.

      Consider this: can a Korean become Irish? If they move to Ireland, learn the songs, eat cabbage. Would you consider them Irish?
      If not, why not? Can they still be “Korean” in Ireland, without any Korean social reality? They can’t really be Korean *or* Irish, can they?

      They end up in a surreal nowhere-zone, incapable of being their old self, incapable of being a truly new self.
      This is the absurdity of multicultural immigration
      It is creating a world full of non-people, of Koreans-who-can’t-be-Korean-but-can’t-be-Irish-either. Ridiculous!

    • David says:

      11:48am | 04/12/09

      The USA would laugh that this is a major policy issue here, the amount of illegal immigrants that attempt to ‘invade’ our country (particularly by boat) is insignifcant compared to theirs. Not to mention the probably larger number that stayed here with expired Visas. It is typical that people have forgotten that this is only a major issue in the public conscious because John Howard wished to win an election (1998 I think).
      One other thing I find interesting is that a lot of people who talk about immigrants ‘jumping the queue’ forget to mention some of the indescribable things many of them are running from. I don’t know but, if for example, my family, or myself, were likely to be murdered I’d probably jump the queue too. It is interesting that many of the illegal immigrants are Tamils. The queue is also often unfair and overtly politcal. A crisis has to be RECOGNISED by our government: too bad if you’re genuine but the civil strife/political murder etc is not recognised (eg. Mass murder of scholars after the Iranian Revolution).

    • Greg says:

      12:41pm | 04/12/09

      A racist used to mean a person who hated another just because of their race, but now it can mean anything from a person who eats a ham sandwich in the presence of a Muslim to somebody who celebrates Christmas.
      The actual meaning of a racist has now become: anybody who is winning an argument against a left-wing moral supremacist.
      As for the “redneck”, it is a racial insult that is almost exclusively applied to white people - not “ordinary Australians”. Non-whites can be bogans, but not rednecks.

    • Paul Prentice says:

      01:27pm | 04/12/09

      Gee i don’t know what the word racist means, i only know what is good for Australia and its people,any backward fool that wants to dibble into that disgusting ideology political correctness ,needs to move to another country.

    • paul says:

      09:44am | 05/12/09

      Actually I will go one step further from calling you a redneck Mr Southwell. As the insightful Aussie comic Mandy Nolan says, you can divide all men into two groups - Berts and Ernies. David you are Bert brigade in this debate.

    • Racists hater says:

      03:43pm | 20/01/10

      Exterminate all racist and rednecks, and should make Oz a better place

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      04:57pm | 20/01/10

      Thank God for you,  Racists Hater - the crisis is averted. It was always going to take someone like you to come up with the right solution because the lazy government wouldn’t. You should consider a career in politics because we need that level of intellect and sound logical reasoning if we’re going to produce any decent policies in the future.

    • ab says:

      04:54pm | 20/01/10

      How about making the legal process a little easier so that desperate, war-ravished people won’t resort to doing something drastic and stupid?

      I know many Australians from both camps on this issue, and while you reasonably put anti-refugee sentiments down to causes other than racism, I believe the cause is somewhere in between. Most of them probably aren’t aware of the racism - but we can say one thing for sure. If it was a Anglo-Saxon immigrating, even illegally, it’s fair to say most people would not care. But due to characterisations of refugees as people who come here to claim welfare and commit crimes, an asylum seeker is hardly so lucky.

      I don’t think it is racist for me or anyone else to say that there are Australians who are racist or bogan or redneck. I certainly don’t think all Australians are, and I know many other fellow Australians who think the attitude is wrong. If anything, those who have compassion for refugees can only be considered to be more Australian than intolerant people or even people who just think, as you suggest, that immigrants can do harm to our society (which is a reasonable question to consider), why? Because Australia touts itself quite rightly as a land of values, and one of the values we like to think we have is compassion, and a sense of justice. I don’t want to have to say that we’re lying about the values we claim to be so proud of.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      12:17pm | 21/01/10

      Referring to someone as a “redneck” is a blatant example of racist social elitism.

      According to the origins of the term, to qualify as a “redneck” you have to have white skin and work with your hands outdoors. Over the years, use of the term has also expanded to include those people supposedly displaying the socially profiled characteristics of the aforementioned group. Those who refer to others as “rednecks” are implying that the “type” of people to whom they are referring are socially inferior to themselves - the inference being that working hard doing manual labour is “beneath” those who consider themselves part of the social elite. To call someone a “redneck” is to superciliously denigrate them on the basis of their skin colour and social status.

      There’s also a term for the “type” of people who use the term “redneck” when pontifically berating others for their opinions expressed on racial or social matters - it’s “ignorant hypocrites”.

    • Edward says:

      01:41pm | 21/01/10

      Rather pointless article. You’ll never stop boat people. They will keep coming. The argument is ‘why do we go through these pointless, time and money-consuming exercises of trying to keep them off our mainland.’? Just bring them here, put them in a processing centre. Process them, if they’re legit, keep them. If not, send them back. There are only a few hundred, maybe 1000 a year. We settle over 100,000 migrants a year. Up to 1% does not impact our welfare system, create ghettos or cause any undue issues that regular migration doesn’t.

 

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Paul Colgan

@MClarke23 nip out of camp to help out Warney? Now that would cause some chaos

Lucy Kippist

@SimonThomsen LOL you can try!

Lucy Kippist

Don't bring your children and other "rules" of supermarket shopping. Got a gripe or two of your own? Add to my list: http://bit.ly/dBWydm

Lucy Kippist

What voters really think of Tony Abbott, great piece by Nic Christensen & Tina Tek: http://bit.ly/bvLWSz#thepunch

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Breaking news: Something is going on

Breaking news: Something is going on

Is this the greatest ever send-up of 24-hour news? Warning: contains strong language and hilarity. From… Read more

10 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter