The Government has sealed the deal on health reforms, declaring them the biggest thing since Medicare - see the story here. But then, they would talk them up, wouldn’t they? The Punch decided to get Australian Medical Association President Dr Steve Hambleton’s verdict.

Sorry, you'll have to get the states to pay for that one. Photo: Ray Strange

What’s your overall impression of the deal?

Hospitals definitely needed improved funding and the good signal is that the Prime Minister is actually taking notice of medical experts - so I guess (we should see) improved transparency and meaningful clinical engagement.

Is there still some skepticism?

There is some skepticism because this is billed as the biggest health reform since Medicare.  It isn’t. It’s the start of health reform and it’ll only be fulfilled when there’s system redesign led by doctors.

We certainly need decentralised management; the moves to local control but increased clinical engagement is what the hospitals need to reform. Reform is not the money, it’s the rest – the transparency, clinical engagement and redesign.

Are you optimistic those will follow?

The framework is set, now it’s up to the states to deliver and allow those local hospital networks to engage with local doctors to deliver the critical reforms. There challenge is for every state to deliver.

Does it mean the end of the ‘blame game’?

The blame game is never over, it’s just changed. But at least the funding now is clear and will be transparent.

Why don’t the Feds just take over funding and running the whole lot?

The AMA did recommend a single funder, but the states will never allow that. It’s such a significant part of their budget, 25 per cent plus… it could easily be argued that if they didn’t run health then they need to be 25 per cent smaller, the number of politicians, electorates, etc. You’d challenge a core plank of state government. 

What do you think about the ‘downgrade’ of standards to targets? Would you call it a downgrade?

I’d call it listening to doctors on the front line. Targets were altered because of the report from the expert panels that said 90 per cent is more clinically appropriate. I think that’s a positive not a negative.

How will the ‘patient journey’ be improved?

Through transparency. The transparency is a key element of reform because we’ll be able to see whether the funding offered is actually delivered to the bedside. In the past millions of extra dollars have gone to states without a single bed (being delivered). So transparency will mean what is promised will have to be delivered. That’s a big change.

That means we progressively move toward better patient services. If it’s not delivered we know who to blame.

What about preventive health?

When you engage clinicians on front line and redesign the system they will take in to consideration teaching, training, research and prevention. It’s the same principles; local control and clinical engagement.

Is there anything else you want to say about the reforms?

The key message is this is the start of health reform not the end. We’ve got a funding deal that stretches out into the future. If it’s business as usual we’ll get the same outcome. We’ve got to remember this is just the beginning.

The medical profession was skeptical about the four hour targets in emergency departments. Then when we got together as the AMA to look at the evidence, Western Australia said ‘we’ve trialled this and while we don’t have publishable evidence yet it’s looking good so far’. The learnings from WA were if you have a whole of hospital reform you can achieve significant change in your waiting times without a lot of extra funding.  In WA they made a huge difference just by having a whole of hospital understanding and trying to fix it together.

It’s always better to aim high and miss than to aim low and hit the target.

42 comments

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    • Gary Cox says:

      06:05am | 04/08/11

      I don’t think this weak excuse for a government know what the word ‘reform’ actually means. They certainly do overuse the word, I mean apparently the carbon tax is a reform too?

    • nihonin says:

      07:46am | 04/08/11

      Gary, they certainly do understand the word reform, to them it’s the word they use instead of saying the promise just announced or being announced is mostly all bullsh*t.

    • Macca says:

      12:48pm | 04/08/11

      Gary, I was thinking the same thing. So typical of the ALP to over-promise and under-deliver. Some Pragmatism would go a long way.

    • Daniel says:

      03:20pm | 04/08/11

      In this case ‘Reform’ refers to fixing years of neglect by Tony Abbott. Can’t draw attention to yourself if you don’t even try.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      06:08am | 04/08/11

      Hi Punch Team,

      Really?  I can not believe my eyes & my ears.  For Ms Julia Gillard to take time off from her busy schedule to visit patients which is so wonderful!!

      I just want to say certainly it is about time & long overdue!!  Does that mean also, we will no longer have hospital waiting lists, better emergency care whether you live on the North Shore or the Western Suburbs??  It is music to my ears.  It is also about time that we all realized that prevention is so much better than a cure!!  Best regards to your editors.

    • Super D says:

      07:20am | 04/08/11

      I seem to remember a government information campaign telling me that the commonwealth would be the dominant funder of healthcare but it seems its now only 50/50.  I guess I was misinformed.  Frankly any information campaigns that are released before all legislation is finalised and a firm start date is known should be banned - or better yet the costs should be recouped from the superannuation of those in the government responsible.

      Say what you will about the GST and Workchoices campaigns - at least they were implemented.

    • MarK says:

      09:11am | 04/08/11

      It is less than 50% actually D. Closer to 45%. The Feds are still the minority funder.

      Blame game is on.

    • Chris L says:

      06:19pm | 04/08/11

      Fair point Super D. A lot of money would be saved if they held off the announcements until they’re ready to proceed rather than as soon as they think up the idea.

    • David S says:

      07:59am | 04/08/11

      There is always going to be an approriate level of tension between the doctors’ union (aka AMA), and the Government.  This, of course, is a healthy situation.  At the moment the tension seems creative which will result in better outcomes.

      We should, however, leave the entire medical system just up to the AMA to decide what’s best for patient outcomes.  A collaborative approach is best.  Doctors need approriate oversight and sensible caps on public funding that goes to fund their salaries.  It’s taxpayer money, folks.

      The ‘local’ approach at all costs approach does not always make sense.  There are economies of scale that can come from centralised management; the PBS is a wonderful example of how this works to reduce costs.  Duplicate local management performing overlapping tasks across local regions is also wasteful.

    • Kassandra says:

      11:57am | 04/08/11

      The AMA is not a union. The doctor’s union is ASMOF which you’ve probably never heard of and has nothing to do with the AMA.

      The PBS reduces costs mainly through the application of cost-effectiveness analysis to all new applications for listing through its independent committee PBAC not through economies of scale. It’s a pity this government doesn’t apply cost-effectiveness analysis to more of its activities.

      The biggest savings and improvements to services that could happen in the public health sector would come from getting rid of the bloated centralised bureaucracy running it.

    • Molly says:

      12:54pm | 04/08/11

      Kassandra: the AMA is a union in every means other than name, just because it is full of professionals doesn’t mean it is not out to protect the rights (and privileges) of its members. AND don’t get me started on the closed shops tha tare the speciality Colleges who have effectively limited the number of specialists for their own gain. Whilst governments have fought the wharfies and pilots (for various reasons)how about doing the same to doctors!

    • Kassandra says:

      04:40pm | 04/08/11

      Molly you are just showing you don’t understand how specialty training works. The number of people being qualified as specialists is primarily limited by the number of available training places - which in turn is determined by multiple factors, the specialist colleges having only limited impact on most. The biggest is government funding of training places in hospitals and the necessary infrastructure eg theatre operating time for surgeons. Specialists’ incomes are not really affected by the number of new specialists being qualified.

    • Fiona says:

      07:17pm | 04/08/11

      Why leave the entire medical system up to one stream that works within it? Yes Drs are a very important part of it, but not the only one.
      Nurses
      Allied health (OT, physio etc)
      Social workers, psychologists etc
      Cleaners, orderly staff
      Admin
      Get the picture?

    • Jason says:

      07:50pm | 04/08/11

      Not to forget that you need enough consultants to train the new registrars as well.  And you’re spot on about the AMA Kas.  It’s a political lobby group which does very little in the way of improving working conditions for doctors.

    • Against the Man says:

      08:18am | 04/08/11

      First of all where is this 100% Federal government take over promised in 2008? A lie? Good one. So no 100% take over because if something goes wrong they won’t have anyone to transfer blame to? Brilliant. Now wasn’t that all started in 2008/9? Wow they seem to be working real fast this ALP mob yeah?

      Next lets look at the BS. They ARE NOT going to deliver any of their promises. For one thing they won’t be around in 2014 to be held responsible.

      Look, Roxon promises $500 million to train new GPs but does not address the massive increase in medical school grads (close to a 70%). Not all these guys have jobs, mmm unemployed medical grads. So if they don’t get trained to enter the GP program that money never gets spent…........very clever!

      In the budget Roxon boasts about the massive increase to mental health funding, great except this month she left out the $400 million cut to Better Access to Mental Health…......so again if the ground focus can’t identify the problem the money further up the chain never gets spent. But she can boasts about doing blah, blah, blah BS.

      As for working with doctors, give up that ruse baby, she is in with the Nursing Unions all the way, THEY will dictate health care reform! HEalth reform should include everyone especially the doctors who are medicolegally responsible to the patient and will face the wrath of the ACCC if and when shit happens!

      So can we expect better health from the ALP? Well it took them over 3 years to get anything done, they wasted over $600 million on Not-So Super Clinic (see May’s Observer for the Medical blowout from that in Canberra) and they make promises they are not going to deliver.

      Can’t wait for the ALP election annihilation! smile

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:33am | 04/08/11

      You must have missed the part where the WA Liberal Premier said ‘No’ and refused to agree to the deal…...and then when Victoria went Liberal they also indicated they would pull out of the deal.

      It wasn’t that long ago, I know you Liberal types like re-writing history but come on….

    • John the Zombie says:

      11:30am | 04/08/11

      Actually Realdave both the liberal parties actually signed up and it was because they ended up getting better deals for thier electorate. Funny how a Victoria Labor jumper on the bandwagon with out even making sure the deal was good for them and now this Liberal govt has been able to get over 2 billion more for Victoria.

      Glad to see the laborites not telling the full story.

    • Tom says:

      11:34am | 04/08/11

      No RealDave, it was wall to wall Labor when Kevin07 got in. You are the one trying to re-write history.

    • Against the Man says:

      11:51am | 04/08/11

      More excuses I see…..................why not than take over the whole show and not have to deal with the states or work with the states from the beginning to get something out in less than a year?

      History is happening for all to see, nothing to re-write. Gillard and her government’s legacy of shame is beyond repair.

      Something for your reading pleasure:
      http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/editorial/health-agreement-wont-end-the-blame-game-20110803-1ibh2.html

      BTW RealDave has Roxon and cronies stated how they will equalise all hospitals to have a level playing field before looking at transparency? I mean if you don’t hospital will have to play the game and cherry pick the best patients and leave others out in the cold in order not to get punished for spending too much dealing with difficult patients. So hospital performance becomes an excuse to crew patients over? Yes, the Gillard government doesn’t really want to discuss details just big pretend spending numbers for PR purposes.

      No more excuses, zero policy success and counting…....still smile

    • Bev says:

      12:35pm | 04/08/11

      As for working with doctors, give up that ruse baby, she is in with the Nursing Unions all the way, THEY will dictate health care reform!

      I would like toknow how you have come to that conclusion.

    • Daniel says:

      02:45pm | 04/08/11

      Against the Man: “First of all where is this 100% Federal government take over promised in 2008? A lie? Good one. So no 100% take over because if something goes wrong they won’t have anyone to transfer blame to? Brilliant. Now wasn’t that all started in 2008/9? Wow they seem to be working real fast this ALP mob yeah?”

      IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. There’s a reason Kevin Rudd isn’t the leader anymore. You can spew garbage about “Why didn’t Labor do this’ all you like, but it’s an impossibility - no state, even a Labor state would agree. Plain and simple. It’s hilarious seeing a Liberal talk about not delivering, shall we talk about not even trying? Or maybe going backwards?

      Lastly, did you even READ the article?

    • Shifter says:

      03:00pm | 04/08/11

      Said WA Liberal premier is very anti federal anything as he is of the belief that WA’s economy props up other states’ and that WA does not receive a fair share of federal tax distribution in return.

      Hence he doesn’t want to put any extra control of WA’s funding into federal hands.

      Not sure what the Vic premier’s issue is.

    • Against the Man says:

      03:21pm | 04/08/11

      Calm down Daniel, like I said, if you can’t inspire your own Labor States to agree to a plan and if you can’t take it all over the only word to sum it all up is failure smile

      And Bev, it is no secret Roxon is anti-doctor, her address at the recent AMA conference showed her antagonist views towards the medical profession. And her bias towards the nursing union and nurse practitioners is legendary. Oh my suddenly Meicare budget issues aren’t a concern when it comes to nurses but cuts to GP rebates are fine woopee!

      Hey this is going to an expensive failure and I am looking forward to it. Sometimes people only learn the hard way. Remember the ‘no carbon tax under a government I lead’ promise - classic smile

    • Tom says:

      03:47pm | 04/08/11

      Daniel, the takeover was promised by Kevin07 to “end the blame game”. Rudd put a time frame on it, July 2008, for states to get their act together or he would take health over. Anyone with half a brain understood that Rudd’s promise was never constitutionally deliverable (even with wall to wall Labor in the States) because of tribalism.

      Despite the fact that ending the blame game through a federal takeover was a brazen “pig” (never doable), Rudd (Labor) promised it.The Liberals were not as irresponsible with their promises and were too slow off the mark in pointing out the constitutional barriers.

      Our meeja were so besotted with Kevin07’s log cabin trash that they let this piece of feelgood balderdash past. Our vaccuous electorate bought Rudd’s big picture stuff.

      Rudd got in and immediately set about hoping that his pig in the poke promise never existed. When our esteemed meeja had no option but to jump on board the “fail to deliver on a health election promise” theme, it was too late and all downhill for Kevin 07. Australians woke up to the fact that he was little more than a BS artist.

      Enter Gillard and Roxon pushing the “pig” around the pen and hyping it beyond all sensibilities. The pig has a bit of lipstick but it was always a pig and it is no closer to being delivered than it was in 2007.

      To the Labor drones squealing, “well at least labor tried”, the simple answer is “no they didn’t, they were forced to pretend to try” because of public pressure.

      The lesson is don’t promise the undeliverable, however stupid you believe the electorate and the Aussie meeja to be.

    • Daniel says:

      06:26pm | 04/08/11

      Perhaps you missed it Tom, but Rudd isn’t in power, and was in fact given the ass by the people that are now actually looking to deliver the deliverable, and not deliver the undeliverable. Only a fool would look on the situation and think that they were going to go through with his promises.

      ...

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      08:37am | 04/08/11

      All this will achieve is another layer of bureaucracy and more public servants. Typical socialist stuff.

    • Seanr says:

      09:08am | 04/08/11

      Tony, I’m all for hospital reform for the right reasons butI think you are right. I read recently that in Qld there has been a massive increase in bureaucracy with Labor being in power. Whilst I know some good people at Qld Health but there seems to be a lot of useless bodies there.
      Unfortunately it’s too easy to increase back office numbers whilst a lot harder to do it for frontline staff like doctors and nurses.

    • MarK says:

      09:11am | 04/08/11

      Exactly

    • Fiona says:

      07:25pm | 04/08/11

      Actually, Qld health has offered redundancies to staff, because they are broke and need to shed some “fat”. Those redundancies, however, were not on offer for “frontline clinical staff”, eg: doctors and nurses.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:30am | 04/08/11

      Well, he seems optimistic and he’s in the biz, so I guess we’ll see what happens.  I am glad he called out the ‘biggest reform since Medicare’. that seemed a tad over the top.

      They’ll want to get this right, given their horrendous popularity at the moment.  They can’t afford another stuff-up.

    • Terry says:

      11:10am | 04/08/11

      Everything Gillard delivers is a watered down version of what Rudd strongly voiced so successfully in 2007 to convince the public she is doing something and therefore has the right to remain in power. It is all about handing out more of our money. Pathetic!

    • Daniel says:

      02:29pm | 04/08/11

      There’s a reason Rudd isn’t there, and that was over top promises and inability to negotiate. Of course the Liberal faithful will call this a backflip and not ‘negotiation’, it’s the only word they know. Can’t backflip when you promise nothing can you?

      Here you have the head of the AMA saying this is a good thing, and the Liberals will just engage ‘destroy everything’ mode and call it all lies / backflips / socialism / pink batts. Grow up, it’s pathetic.

    • MarK says:

      04:52pm | 04/08/11

      Son you are confusing negotiation with capitulation.

      Never having a view on anything, not having convictions, not having a plan and not having skill set for the job pushes her to these positions.

      Incompetence leads her to these humiliating positions.

      The head of the AMA has said this is a start. Not a good thing. You are spinning son. Slow down and think. That’s a good boy.

    • Daniel says:

      06:16pm | 04/08/11

      MarK: Of course you’re seeing ‘capitulation’. You’re the opposition, it’s your job to make it sound as bad as possible as pathetic as that is. From what I can tell, your opinion is that nothing would be preferable to any kind of ‘give’ in negotiations (sorry, capitulation). I guess that’s why you’re Liberal?
      It’s hilarious how much you can read between the lines. Seems like Gillard has pretty solid views, that she’s standing behind, you seem to be confusing it her with the Opposition weather vanes. She’s been in the job for a year, where is your evidence of lack of skills?

      I’m seeing a Carbon Tax, Mining Tax, Health Package, Refugee agreement (though I disagree entirely with this, but only because Abbott made it a slogan and the government stupidly reacted to the xenophobes), and the NBN in full swing. That’s more in 12 months than you guys did or even thought of doing in 12 years. You’ll probably cry socialism, but so far there’s no evidence that Abbott and Co. have any kind of backbone to do anything useful or necessary (except promise to undo everything).

    • Against the Man says:

      08:38pm | 04/08/11

      There was NO negotiation.

      Gillard just threw money and promised the States everything but the moon to get a deal signed to get something to show Australia she isn’t a total failure. Guess what? a lot of us have seen through the BS.

      The Malaysian solution is another prime example of following through with a f@^k up so as not to be seen as a perpetual failure but still failing spectacularly.

      Gillard is THE worst politician this country has ever seen, she has brought shame and disrespect to the office of PM. A proud life long failure is what she will always be…...................

    • MarK says:

      01:45pm | 04/08/11

      So to 1.30 pm the “greatest reform since medicare” (well not really but the hyperbowl is just assisfying my high dungeon) to health has garnered 20 responses.

      Wow.

      20

      I am really shocked but this tells me a few things.

      1. The “reform” is so poorly sold nobody cares

      2. “Reform” from this government merely means paying cash for something on terms they did not want to in the first place. In other words capitulation was expected by the public and it has been achieved again by Gillard so there is nothing to see here.

      3. People really have stopped listening. Like Kenneally in NSW even the “good” news is disregarded.

      It is number 3 that should terrify Labor.

      Here is a relatively positive story they can tell, leaving aside the 3 years late and nothing like they set to do ending for health payments libellously masquerading as “reform”.

      But what has happened. Raised one day. Gone the next. And in The Punch the independent explanation is treated to interest that has all the hallmarks of Bart going meh.

      This is tragic for Labor. I am sure the back room boys that scan these sites must be very very worried at the lack of interest.

      What a disaster…....and off the back of Galaxy and Essential showing Labors bounce was indeed a dead cat bounce.

      How embarrassing to be Labor….as Crean has shown by not even using the Labor brand on his latest mail out. That is Crean, Simon, not wishing to identify with the party brand….god help her.

    • Daniel says:

      02:36pm | 04/08/11

      The responses on these are always driven by people like yourself, and the replies to garbage you spew. So what does that tell you? Perhaps dial in some young liberals to get started on slagging this off. Maybe it’s because Tony is on Holidays and not around to stir up hatred through lies?

    • MarK says:

      03:58pm | 04/08/11

      Thanks for input Daniel.

      I get it (I think). Liberal bad, they hate. Awesome post.

      Please do come again. Your commentary was enlightening but you seemed to have glossed over anything relevant. Actually let me not be coy. You have not said anything relevant, or easily readable.

      Hang in there though son. There is time for you yet.

    • Daniel says:

      06:21pm | 04/08/11

      Wait, you actually think you said anything that isn’t the usual subjective garbage you vomit? Impressive. Do you think there are ‘facts’ that need disputing in there somewhere? People aren’t dancing in the streets, therefore bad? My original comment stands.

    • Jason says:

      02:08pm | 04/08/11

      The ‘four hour rule’ for emergency departments is one of the worst politically motivated policies put forward in this country in a long time.  If your unsure what this is, it’s a policy that states that 90% of Emergency Department patients must be discharged or moved to a ward within four hours of presenting (ie the moment they step through the doors).  If the ED doesn’t meet it’s target of turfing patients within the four hour timeframe, it’s penalised financially.  Despite what the government might say, the pressure for emergency departments is to focus on meeting targets rather than focusing on patient care.

      This system has been trialed most notably in the UK (where it’s been scrapped after it was decided that patient care was being compromised) and Western Australia (where it has come under significant criticism).  Basically three things are going to happen:

      (a) ED’s ‘fudge’ figures to make it look as if patients are being moved out of the ED departments even when they’re not
      (b) Patients being moved to already overcrowded wards even if they don’t need to be admitted due to ED departments being unable to examine patients properly within the timeframe
      (c) Patients discharged from ED without being properly examined due to targets with inevitable consequences

      The following observation from a UK med student is a perfect example of how this plays out:

      “Patients are no longer known by their names or by their conditions, they’re not even known by a number…patients are referred to by their time. By this I mean how long they’ve been in the department…as soon as a patient ticks past 3 hours their name lights up like a Christmas tree…If their stay approaches 3 hours 30… the managers start to appear… they don’t actually care…about Mr Jones who is having a heart attack…he’s got to go, wherever it may be, as long as its not ED…[UK Medical Student 2008]”

      I personally know an ED registrar who is dreading the introduction of this system and is contemplating leaving for Canada.  She feels it will effectively cripple Emergency Medicine in Australia and that she didn’t become an ED practitioner to work in what will effectively be a glorified triage department.

    • Against the Man says:

      08:21pm | 04/08/11

      Dude you beat me to this, yup agree the 4hr rule is an awful idea. It was a disaster in WA. Goes to show the lack of effort put it by the people in charge in actually considering the consequences of their policy.

      Like someone said earlier this will be a case of over-promising with massive under delivering.

      Health care reform - FAIL.

      smile

    • Jason says:

      09:38pm | 04/08/11

      If anyone’s interested, the following study was done examining the outcomes of the four hour rule in the UK:

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1742-6723.2010.01330.x/full

      Some pertinent discussion points are:

      “There is no clear evidence that the target to ED completion of 98% of patients in 4 h in itself has had any effect on the quality of care in ED in the UK. Given that approximately £820 000 000.00 was invested directly into EDs in the UK from 1998 to 2007 this lack of evidence is quite remarkable.”

      “Before 2001, the time to see a clinician (the most important time for patients) was closely associated with total time spent in the ED, and it was hoped that by focusing on EDLOS, the time to see a clinician would improve. This is not the case; despite the apparent improvement in reducing total time in ED, there has been no change in the time to see a treating clinician in the UK over the years 2000–2007.”

      “On current evidence it appears that the 98% target for ED completion within 4 h in the UK was in reality not met. The impact of the introduction of an ED time target and the associated massive financial investment has not resulted in a consistent improvement in care with markedly varying effects being reported between hospitals. Countries seeking to emulate the UK experience should proceed with caution.”

 

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