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Punch on: Open thread 27/01/2010

Lucy Kippist

by Lucy Kippist

27 Jan 05:25am

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Filed under: Auschwitz, Open Thread, World War Two

12 comments

Welcome to Wednesday @ The Punch

Today in 1945 the Soviet Army liberated the Auschwitz death camp in Southern Poland.

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12 comments

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    • religulous says:

      10:11am | 27/01/10

      That was 1945, and today we have another one, its called gaza. :(

      Reply

    • ChrisG says:

      12:35pm | 27/01/10

      “religulous”, not by any stretch of imagination can the situation in Gaza be compared to Auschwitz. You betray an ignorance of history, an incapacity for moral assessment, or a cheap and immoral approach to getting your favorite cause attention by grabbing the chance for misdirection - perhaps a combination of all three.

      Auschwitz was part of a systematic geneocide. It involved rounding up and either exterminating or working to death every person from a particular background. Its lessons must be recalled regularly.

      Gaza involves a population disadvantaged by the political and military actions of its various leaders since 1948. Because of a commitment by those leaders to terrorise and eliminate the adjoining state put in place by the agreement of the international community - Israel - its people have never been able to stabilise and develop their economy or institutions. The barriers they face on their border, the lack of access to the economies of their neighbours, and their resulting poverty is the result of actions by their own leaders.

      If you want to discuss Gaza, do so on the merits of that case - don’t cheapen the memory of the victims and survivors of the Holocaust as you have done in your comment.

      Reply

    • Cel says:

      01:15pm | 27/01/10

      Agreed ChrisG.

    • Faten says:

      03:47pm | 27/01/10

      I agree with N, whilst most people would acknowledge what happened to the Jews under Hitler, its astonishing that its okay by Israelis to do unto others what was done to them.
      ChrisG, if you think Israelis are not persecuting Arab Israelis than perhaps you should read more into what is happening over their.
      I am not referring to the bombings and shooting, I’m referring to the Arab Israeli’s who are treated like second class citizens, are not allowed to Marry non-Arab Israeli’s so that they can’t increase their population by marrying Palestinians and bringing them into the country.
      Although the official language of Israel is Hebrew and Arabic, Arabic is banned from the public sector.
      This from http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html “No major scholarships have ever been awarded to an Arab; there are no dorms for Arabs and no college-related jobs or financial aid programs. They justify this legal discrimination by the fact that we do not serve in the army. There are numerous blatant and official methods used to keep Palestinian Arabs out of the universities.” racism at its peak, but of course its not racism if your not white!
      I’m sure theres many more examples, but of course people like you and others with just brush that all aside, afterall their mainly Muslims so who really cares.

    • Faten says:

      04:03pm | 27/01/10

      Apologies, I do not believe that all citizens of Isreal are racist, or all of its government members are, its policies are racist.

    • N says:

      01:32pm | 27/01/10

      ChrisG; I’ll agree that comparison of Gazza to Auschwitz (or any other death / concentration camp for that matter) is immoral and quite false. Jews weren’t the only faction of people housed there, rarely do the Soviet POWs, gypsies, or poles rate a mention, as ‘Auschwitz’ or even ‘concentration camp’ is now synonymous with Jewish genocide. Frankly I would find more apt comparison with the Warsaw ghetto; being walled in, left to starve with no means of trade or communication to the outside world.

      Perhaps what Religulous is trying to say is; for the Jewish state of Israel to persecute the Palestinians so blatantly, one has to wonder the lessons that should have been learned, after being persecuted themselves so horrifically, throughout history (and not just 1939 – 1945). Frankly to think you can keep a country paralysed for so long and expect the people to act civilly, is just plain lunacy.

      Apparently compassion for those in a similar situation is quickly forgotten and lets face it, religion has a lot to answer for…..

      Reply

    • ChrisG says:

      01:55pm | 27/01/10

      “N”, I don’t accept that Israel is persecuting Palestinians, and reject the Ghetto comparison.

      Let’s get the history and context right. Israel was created as a state by the international community recognising the thousands of years connection and presence of jews to that area. A two state solution was proposed. The Arab states attacked the new state. That Arab State war created the first set of displaced persons. Israel offered to negotiate - this was rejected and the Arab States did not allow any normalisation or settlement of the adjoining territories and the displaced. The Arab States attacked again in 1967 - that created the second major flow of displaced and the second set of border disputes. At the time, and on occasions since, Israel has tried to negotiate the recognition and peace that would allow relations with Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank to normalise.

      Every action by Israel since 1948 in Gaza and the West Bank can legitimately be seen as an act of self-defence, including creating walled security for itself. In regard to economic development and restrictions on access across borders, what I find stunning is the view that Palestinians should be allowed, by right, to engage in the economy of the state they are trying to destroy. Again though, such engagement is is possible when terrorist incursions cease and Israel is recognised.

      The culprits in regard to the suffering of ordinary Palestinians, can be properly identified as the Arab States who rejected Israel’s existence, Arafat and his period of bloody and corrupt leadership of the PLO, and now Hamas. The only thing that stands in the way of ending the suffering of the Palestinians is Palestinian leadership that continues to wage war against Israel and is willing to accept its own people as collateral damage.

    • Frank Scicluna says:

      02:47pm | 27/01/10

      ChrisG, you MUST be Jewish! To say “The Arab states attacked the new state” is to try rewriting history. Have you never heard of the Jewish gangs who terrorised and slaughtered thousands of Palestinians out of their land? You don’t recall them being organised and led by people who later became Presidents and Prime Ministers of Israel?

      You also claim that “Israel was created as a state by the international community” History tells us that the state of Israel was finally created only after the United States saw that the vote by that same international community was doomed to fail and blackmailed enough small countries whose economies were dependent on America to change their vote allowing it to squeeze through. That is what the USA calls ” A Democratic decision”

      The fact is that since its creation, Israel has always been and will forever remain a rogue state. World peace can never be achieved until that Jewish cancer is removed once and for all.

      Reply

    • N says:

      02:58pm | 27/01/10

      ChrisG; Every action can be seen as an act of self defence? So every act by the Palestinian population must therefore be an act of terrorism? Pretty specious reasoning.

      The wall that Israel built around the west bank territory was ruled illegal by the same international body that proclaimed Israel a state. My point here is that if Israel selectively adheres to international law, why are they not accountable? Annexing of a country is an act of war, imagine if we were to do the same to Indonesia or if France decided to annex Belgium. Yet every day Palestinians are forcibly evicted from there homes to make way for Jewish settlers. I’m unsure as to why this is the fault of Palestinian occupants. 

      I have no problem with Israel defending herself from attack, but there are limits and apparently Israel doesn’t know them, or does and values the lives of its people at a ratio of at least 130 Palestinians:1 Israeli. April last year, 6 Israeli soldiers and 3 civilians were killed; retaliation amounted to over 1400 Palestinians killed, after Israel broke the cease-fire. Unguided rockets and Molotov cocktails just don’t have the same impact as Apache Longbow helicopters, F16 fighters and Merkava MK4 tanks.

      Don’t you think that the way in which Israel (backed by the US) is conducting its self in regards to Palestine is cause and effect for the violence in the region?

      Reply

    • ChrisG says:

      03:45pm | 27/01/10

      “N”, there is a simple cause and effect to the conflict: Palestinian leadership commits to the right for Israel to exist, foreswears terror and stops attacks, with the effect that Israel, as it has done on a couple of occasions, including by then Prime Minister and current Defence Minister Barak, hands back control of the territories to a Palestinian state committed to coexistence and in receipt of the international development aid that would be forthcoming. It’s called win win.

    • ChrisG says:

      03:08pm | 27/01/10

      Frank Scicluna, anglo-celt raised a catholic, now agnostic, i’m afraid.

      I see you’re in the Ahmedinejad camp of international relations and your language harks back to the Third Reich - Israel is “a cancer to be removed once and for all”? No point really discussing that kind of view ...

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      04:55pm | 27/01/10

      The Palestinian’s dilemma is much less a catastrophe than the holocaust. (catastrophe though it is, ) but I think the emphasis on the suffering of the Jews is unneccesary.
      We know what happened, and History is a poor teacher.

      Reply
 
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