Punch on: Open thread 23/09/2011

TomZ says:

08:51am | 23/09/11

Well said. Let’s create diversions from the carbon tax lie and the Malaysia debacle? Your last sentence sums up this toxic tax funded cult.

acotrel says:

07:38am | 23/09/11

It sounds like the answer to building a reactor based on thorium !

TimB says:

07:46am | 23/09/11

Wow. Very cool.

Hyperdrive here we come .

Ghost says:

08:35am | 23/09/11

Obviously male neutrinos, doing all the work.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:01am | 23/09/11

Ghost - its because the female neutrinos are at home taking care of the kids !!

Shall we name the first ship Enterprise or Voyager ?

S.L says:

09:25am | 23/09/11

@Erick did they have P plates attached?

Babe in the Woods says:

10:01am | 23/09/11

But will the trains now run on time?

neo says:

10:20am | 23/09/11

Andromeda galaxy, here we come.

Erick says:

10:25am | 23/09/11

@S.L. - It’s only a matter of time until the government sets up a speed trap. Imagine the revenue potential!

Shenanigans says:

10:31am | 23/09/11

@S.L its a well known fact that us P Platers travel at almost 5x the speed of light, get your facts straight buddy. The neutrinos were the other ones rushing to get the dole payment….

TomZ says:

10:50am | 23/09/11

Faster than Ben Cousins with a booze bus on his tail?

S.L says:

10:57am | 23/09/11

@Shenanigans so it was you in the Silver VU Commodore ute with P plates going flat out in heavy traffic on the F3 yesterday!

Shenanigans says:

11:10am | 23/09/11

i neither accept nor deny these allegations S.L

Knemon says:

01:46pm | 23/09/11

...don’t believe the crap scientists carry on with - what would they know?

A Bolt says:

04:49pm | 23/09/11

@Knemon Exactly. Next they’ll be telling us the planet is warming !

LJ Dots says:

07:12pm | 23/09/11

@Macca - gave me a laugh as well. The ‘pew pew pew’ transcends generations

nihonin says:

07:35am | 23/09/11

How is it a public concern?  Was she using his Union credit card?

TChong says:

07:58am | 23/09/11

read it also unionist.
My, my little Sophie is full of surprises for one who likes to have a public persona of an angelic , truth seeking gal of alledged pious integrity.
Bronny Bishops apprentice.
Isnt she a charmer?

Kurisu Sonsaku says:

07:58am | 23/09/11

But on the upside, at least she wasn’t paying for hookers or taking secret comissions.

marley says:

08:23am | 23/09/11

I dunno.  I don’t have any fondness for Mirabella, but what do we really have at the moment?  A woman who had an affair, who remained friends with her ex after the affair, and who kept up the connection until his death.  And a family who didn’t look after the old boy and are now concerned they’ve been cut out of the will.  It’s not very edifying, but I’m not sure I find it “sickening.”  Family disputes over wills happen all the time, and this one is mostly allegations on the part of very interested parties.  A bit early to make judgements, IMHO.

NicoleG says:

08:33am | 23/09/11

Whoop-De-Doo! Small things amuse small minds hey Rob R? BTW, I was in Casio yesterday. What a shithole. I can fully understand why you live there Rob….

MadKat of Melbourne says:

08:59am | 23/09/11

It’s a dispute over a Will with an ex-boyfriend’s family - so what !! Unionist - what’s quite sickening about it? Has she broken any laws? How is it a concern to the public? How is she a con-artist?

NicoleG - you are spot on - Small things amuse small minds -

gobsmack says:

09:18am | 23/09/11

Sounds like “At home with Sophie” would be a far more compelling sitcom.

AFR says:

09:22am | 23/09/11

Casio? Is that where the calculators come from?

NicoleG says:

09:33am | 23/09/11

Cute AFR. My typing is rapidly going down the gurgler :(  Casi*n*o

acotrel says:

09:39am | 23/09/11

@MadKat
‘Unionist - what’s quite sickening about it? Has she broken any laws?’

What laws did Craig Thompson break ? Who would be a politician if your affairs are going to be dragged through the mud ‘in the public interest’ ?

Anna C says:

09:53am | 23/09/11

I don’t see what all the hoopla is about.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:53am | 23/09/11

hey acotrel - reality check - get your head out of the clouds of lefty land and down to reality for once - Thompson stole other people’s money - no-one has dragged him through the mud on the point that he was married during his escapades -

acotrel says:

09:54am | 23/09/11

@kirisu
‘But on the upside, at least she wasn’t paying for hookers or taking secret comissions. ‘

In the eyes of the law both participants in the deal with hookers, are equally guilty !

Shane From Melbourne says:

10:43am | 23/09/11

Sophie has committed no crime. If whoring for money was a crime, most of the LNP would be locked up over relationships with big business….

The righteous one says:

11:00am | 23/09/11

Sophie, I’ve underestimated you, you really are industrious and innovative, but not very scientific.  People who live in glass houses hey,  I hope they (the children) win . You really are a nice piece of work.  Next time you write some of your vitriol here I shall read it with a smile on my face knowing that you really do have feet of clay. bit strange for a greek to like monarchy, I thought you lot got rid of yours years ago typical L/NP living in the last century

Anna C says:

11:19am | 23/09/11

Sophie Mirabella is an opportunist and gold digger. Not hanging offences I’m afraid.

NicoleG says:

11:33am | 23/09/11

Oh I’d love to know the dirty laundry of you three nongs. Have a listen to yourselves. Self righteous, nasty little people.

gra gra says:

12:16pm | 23/09/11

No Kurisu, she didn’t pay for a hooker. He did. In every conceivable way.
Of course because she hasn’t been convicted of any offence, (yet), we should all refrain from judgement. Of anyone, except those from the Labor party, Eh?
She also, according to some dimwit on here, didn’t raid the public purse. Neither did the Federal Labor M.P.
Abbott hasn’t sacked her, but demands that Gillard sacks her bloke.
I think that she should explain her actions to the Parliament, (although I know it’s hard to explain away that which can’t be explained away), so that we, in Abbott’s words, can have the matter “cleared up”.
And Dash could add her name to his ‘shame’ list of yesterday, couldn’t he. What? Oh, its only for Labor personnel. Sorry Dash.

The righteous one says:

12:16pm | 23/09/11

hang on nicole, day in day out we listen to character assasination aimed at the PM yet if we speak about a front bencher from the opposition we are nongs and self righteous. So where is the equality or is the L/NP baseline now bullying people with personal abuse.  You may argue that she has done nothing wrong under law, but morally it might be questionable behaviour at worst.  You may say there is no public interest there, but given her position and given that her behaviour and moral standards are at the very least questionable, who is to say that these values and standards of behaviour are not applied to her duties as an MP and that does make it of interest to the public and therefore it is open to conjecture.

NicoleG says:

12:52pm | 23/09/11

And what exactly has she done that is ‘morally wrong’? Was she married? No. Was he married? No. This is really none of anyone’s business. Re read your comment and tell me you were being nice.

AdamC says:

01:08pm | 23/09/11

The article in the Smage was especially tacky. Aside from a lot of innuendo and a clearly very shirty, guilty adult son, what is the issue here? From what I can tell, Mirabella and her husband seemed to have cared for her elderly ex-boyfriend when his children were unwilling or unable to do so. I can’t see what the son’s jealousy about their relationship has to do with anything.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

01:25pm | 23/09/11

Hang on The righteous one - Gillard IS crap so our criticisms are valid - what is morally wrong with what Mirabella’s done ?

gobsmack says:

07:42am | 23/09/11

@Dash
The legislation that Howard introduced to support the NT intervention (which among other things, disapplied the Racial Discrimination Act) was drafted, introduced and passed in a matter of a few days.

Dash says:

08:34am | 23/09/11

bobsmack - The howard government reacted to a request from the NT government to protect women and children. The legislation was passed quickly because children were being raped and it had bipartisan support. What a rediculous comparison!

acotrel says:

08:55am | 23/09/11

@Dash
‘Not only did Gillard and the ALP lie to us about this legislation. Not only did they replace the citizens assembly with a hand picked unepresentative committee. But now they are actively trying to stifle debate and force what is clearly an unwanted tax onto us without due process’

Gillard’s ‘lie’ was simply an aberrant occurrence which happened because she didn’t follow the ‘script’, and as a result made a ‘non core promise’ !  The debate hasn’t been ‘stifled’.  Tony Abbott has had yonks to make up his mind and see sense !

Dash says:

09:25am | 23/09/11

@acotrel -

Where is the sense in implementing a significant cost to the Australian economy?
Where is the sense in descriminating against Australian families on the basis of income?
If this is about “making the big polluters pay” why are people paying on the basis of what they earn not on how they pollute?
Where is the sense in compensating the big polluting industries of Coal and Steel?
Where is the sense in selling coal in increasing quantities to the Chinese if this is really about climate change?
Where is the sense in an ETS which will see Australian wealth flow overseas to shonky carbon credit salesman?
Where is the sense in imlementing this policy whilst there is a significant threat of global economic meltdown?

Alan, the legislation, all 1100 pages of it has only been available for review and comment for 6 days! It is significant legislation and the people deserve better than fopr it to be railroaded through the parliament. Particularly when we were promised it would never exist!

The last person who changed their mind on significant ‘non core promises’ at least had the guts and the goodwill to take the changed policy to the people at a federal election. This is the biggest and most disgraceful fraud ever purpetrated on the Australian people!

TimB says:

09:35am | 23/09/11

Note to everyone:

‘Debate’ in Acotrel’s world= Agreeing to the ALP’s position without question.

Also lol @ ‘aberrant occurence’

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:41am | 23/09/11

Dash - word of warning - if you want to ask acotrel a question don’t start with “Where in the sense ...” - remember you’re talking to acotrel -

Lie = aberrant occurrence - so that’s how the left define a lie now ...

acotrel says:

09:51am | 23/09/11

@MadKat
‘Lie = aberrant occurrence - so that’s how the left define a lie now ... ‘

Not Tony Abbott’s lies, only Julia Gillard’s !

gobsmack says:

09:53am | 23/09/11

@Dash
There was no request from the NT government.  Howard purported to act in response to the “Little Children are Sacred Report” (which was commissioned by the NT govt) while ignoring most of the recommendations contained in the report.
My example was primarily in response to your assertion that “every Australian has a democratic right to comment on proposed legislation ..” which is simply nonsense and your implication that rushing legislation through parliament is something only done by Labor.

Dave-o says:

10:12am | 23/09/11

And when the government proposed more time to debate the bill for the PBO the opposition spent 90 minutes of parliment’s time debating amongst themselves whether or not to take it, time which could have been better spent either debating the PBO bill or the Climate change bills.

So why should the government give more time to the debate if the opposition will stare at the like a roo in headlights wondering if they should accept it or follow fearless leaders “just say no” directive.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

10:31am | 23/09/11

gobsmack - so you would rather that little children were raped while government needlessly debated bipartisan supported legislation in parliament - both sides of parliament acted in the public interest on this piece of legislation - a bit of commonsense in your logic wouldn’t go astray -

Dash says:

10:43am | 23/09/11

gobsmack - the intervention received and still does receive bipartisan support including the support of Gillard who in 2010 pledge to continue the policy. It is a stupid comparison to a policy as significant as the carbon tax which has devided the community, seen the ALPs primary sink to just 26% and faces significant opposition in the lower house as well as in the community. Not to mention the fact it has been purpetrated on an election eve lie!

Every Australian has the right to make a formal submission on this proposed legislation, which must be taken account of. You may think our constitution is nonsense but most of us do not agree!

And Gillard has decided to cancel public hearings around Australia which is something that is always done with major legislation. Her excuse was that there “isn’t enough time”.

It is an afront to our democracy. But what do you expect from the Socialist Forum Queen and her Watermelon collegues who are pulling the strings!

gobsmack says:

10:55am | 23/09/11

@MadKat
Your post is both ridiculous and offensive.

The righteous one says:

11:07am | 23/09/11

@ dash it makes sense to implimnet something that is not going to cost 70BILLION more,  imagine the size of the tax hike for that, because he cant do it by sacking public servants as they would have to be sacked in totality 2.5 times over to find 70 billion in the budget

Dash says:

11:19am | 23/09/11

Righteous - FFS, another ALP fool who’s swollowed the propaganda. Is there anyone with half a brain that can see through this bullshit?

Quite clearly you pay little tax right now and stand to benefit from the reallocation of my taxes. Go away!

MadKat of Melbourne says:

11:27am | 23/09/11

No gobsmack - no it wasn’t - its a valid question - you held the intervention legisation up as a ridiculous direct comparison to what’s going on now.

You’re the one saying the Howard rushed the legisation through - “There was no request from the NT government.  Howard purported to act in response to the “Little Children are Sacred Report” (which was commissioned by the NT govt) while ignoring most of the recommendations contained in the report” - you’re implying he did something wrong - which implies both sides of parliament did something wrong as both sides rushed this piece of legislation through -

It’s not logical or rational to compare both parties rushing the intervention legislation through parliament with what’s going on now -
Australians have a democratic right to comment on legisation - but sometimes logic dictates that for the public interest in some cases, and especially with what was at stake in the case, legislation must be rushed through and this had bipartisan support -

Unfortunately its your comparison that is ridiculous and offensive -

The righteous one says:

11:44am | 23/09/11

@ dash, a few points of correction so that you do not jump to hasty conclusions,  I am neitherof the left or right, I am concerned that is all.  I have used the calculators provided on line to see how much help I would get in offsetting any price of carbon it is the grand total of $16 per annum, and I am not complaining about that. So by that you may assume I do pay my way and if it is going to give kids of the future at the very least cleaner air to breathe, I Think it is a small price to pay. So skulk away to your little barnacle heaven and do not presume to know what I believe in or what my personal circumstances or political leanings are. If there is any as you so eloquently put it “bullshit” here it comes from your mouth and it is patently clear to blind freddie that you are a nasty little troll that falls back to personal abuse should someone have the audacity to think for themselves and by chance come up with a viewpoint differing from yours rather than actually debating the issue. Jones has taught you well So yes GO AWAY you nasty little worm

Dash says:

01:51pm | 23/09/11

Sticks and stones. Could be worse, I could have my head so far up my arse that I proclaim to all and sundry that I am the Righteous One! - lol

gobsmack says:

02:32pm | 23/09/11

@MadKat
Seeing as I need to spell it out, the part of your post that I find particularly offensive is your suggestion that anyone who doesn’t wholeheartedly support the NT intervention prefers that little children are raped.
Rather than wallow in your own ignorance, I suggest you read “Closing the Gap in the Northern Territory Monitoring Report” to see how effective that intervention has been.
And for your information Australians don’t have “a democratic right to comment on legislation”.  That is what they elect representatives to the legislature to do.
Instead of being a mindless cheerleader for your favourite party, you should go away and get some education.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

04:24pm | 23/09/11

Oh please gobsmack - that’s not what I said - I’m refering to your comparison of the two pieces of legislation going through parliament - I couldn’t give a flying nut whether you support the NT Intervention of not. Get offended by things that are actually said to you gobsmack and stop making things up.

This isn’t a debate about whether it worked or not (that’s a whole other topic) - I didn’t mention anything about whether it worked or not - I didn’t even mention whether I support it or not - its a debate about your stupid, thick-headed comparison - you trully are an absolute idiot -

“Instead of being a mindless cheerleader for your favourite party” - it was bipartisan legislation - I mean trully you are an idiot -

marley says:

08:02am | 23/09/11

@acotrel - identify the sophistry.

Aitch B says:

08:41am | 23/09/11

@acotrel

No. You introduced the word and nobody took any notice of it.

The only learning that might have taken place was newbies finding out that you’re a total fool.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:07am | 23/09/11

SOPHISM - obviously acotrel has learnt a new word this week - he’s used it everyday -

acotrel says:

09:32am | 23/09/11

Sophism immediately comes to mind when I read the comments of LNP supporters expressing their cynicism!

TimB says:

09:46am | 23/09/11

Those “Word of the Day” calendars are dangerous in the wrong hands.

marley says:

10:03am | 23/09/11

@acotrel - so you don’t actually understand the meaning of the word after all?

iansand says:

10:48am | 23/09/11

Sophistry

Shane From Melbourne says:

10:40am | 23/09/11

Why? Aren’t they full Australian citizens, with all rights and privileges therein? Why should they be singled out for differential treatment? Because they were here first doesn’t seem like a valid reason.

Anna C says:

11:24am | 23/09/11

If anyone should be singled out in the Constitution it should be migrants for their great contribution to this country. The only real contribution Aboriginal people have made to this country is increased crime stats.

Dublin fbuddy says:

01:00pm | 23/09/11

@Anna. Well there goes any respect I had for your views. Now reading the comments section each day will be much faster. You related to Marley or Rosie per chance?

marley says:

01:06pm | 23/09/11

@Dublin fbuddy - hey, what did I ever do to deserve that?  (And, as a matter of fact, I think aborigines should be recognized in the Constitution).

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:55pm | 23/09/11

Agree Marley didnt deserve that - a lot more right wingers you could of chosen on here too have a go at.

Interesting post though, Andrew Bolt on his blog this morning was having a crack at Aboriginies.

Anna C says:

02:08pm | 23/09/11

Dublin fbuddy, sorry to have to break it to you but Aboriginal people make up 2.3% of the population but account for 25% of the prison population. If we were handing out medals for crime they would be winning gold, gold, gold for Australia.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians_and_crime

TimB says:

08:16am | 23/09/11

Craig Thomspson’s issues *would* be his own affair…if the money was his own too.

Seeing as it wasn’t, you can see the issue. You know, assuming you aren’t wilfully blind.

acotrel says:

09:36am | 23/09/11

@TimB
How do you know whose money he was using?  There hasn’t been an investigation, let alone a trial!

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:59am | 23/09/11

acotrel - “There hasn’t been an investigation, let alone a trial!” - sorry to burst your lefty utopia bubble - the investigation in underway which is bad enough - looks like the whole union was corrupt while he was at the head of the totem pole -

TimB says:

10:24am | 23/09/11

Learn to pay attention Acotrel. There was an investigation by NSW police. They have confirmed that Craig Thomson used the union credit card to pay for prostitues. It’s an undisputed fact.

Union credit card= union funds. I.e. member’s money. Not his own.

I’m sure being a paid up member of the ALP that you freely donate to them. Would you be happy that if instead of using your money to fund their campaign as expected, they were off getting their rocks off with prostitues? I would contend no.

Max, of Rocky says:

11:20am | 23/09/11

According to ABC 24 this morning, “hundreds have left the union” (HSU)

Not happy Craig

Not happy acotrel :-(

The righteous one says:

11:32am | 23/09/11

@ Tim sorry to burst your bubble but they confirmed that the card had been used to pay for the services of the said establishment.  They als said that they did not identify the person using it and they also said “given the accounting practices in the said union, no crime had been committed, they also forwarded their findings to the Victorian police.  Now even though it may look like ***, smell like** and taste like ***, the presumption of innocence is a protection all of us enjoy.

HSUrocks says:

11:46am | 23/09/11

I’ve just signed up. When do I get my Credit Card? I can’t wait to start putting it to good use.

marley says:

11:48am | 23/09/11

@righteous one - I believe they confirmed the signature on the credit card was Thomson’s - therefore, the card had not been used fraudulently by a third party, so no criminality there.  And Thomson himself hadn’t misused the card because the HSU hadn’t set down any rules for usage.  Very poor form on everyone’s part.

TimB says:

11:49am | 23/09/11

My bubble remains unburst Mr Righteous person. Yours however…

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/police-confirm-craig-thomsons-signature-on-credit-card/story-fn59niix-1226132654746

“We are satisfied that the person who used the card was the person whose name was on the card,” a senior police officer told The Australian.

“It would have been deception if someone else used it; that would have been a crime.”

Exactly what part of that says they didn’t identify the person using it?

Seriously, logic is your friend.

TimB says:

12:53pm | 23/09/11

Marely, I thought they didn’t rule on the misuse?

As i understand it that was deemed to be ‘an accounting issue’ and was passed onto VIC police as it the accounts are held in VIc and thus outside NSW jurisdiction.

But you’re right, if that is the eventual ruling (no rules) that’s very poor form indeed. It means everyone who’s defending Thomson is doing so purely based on a technicality. How can using the funds of union members in this way be anything but wrong? It shouldn’t be condoned.

marley says:

02:21pm | 23/09/11

@TimB - my understanding is that the HSU’s books were in such a shambles, and their accounting policies so defective, that it will be difficult to meet the burden of proof needed for a prosecution.  The matter was referred back to Victoria because there are more documents there, but I don’t think anyone is expecting them to come up with the “smoking gun.’

Shenanigans says:

10:35am | 23/09/11

currently i don’t think any party deserves to run this country, they are all as incompetent as each other.

William B says:

10:41am | 23/09/11

Nothing. Nothing. Australia will continue to be fine. Yes.

Max, of Rocky says:

11:28am | 23/09/11

The DLP has been very quiet.

Any defection to them would be a game changer.

nihonin says:

12:51pm | 23/09/11

Agree with Shenanigans, don’t know if the Libs would be deemed as incompetent, as they haven’t had their greasy hands on the levers yet.  But I’m sure we’ll find out in due time.  I’m more interested in how this Labor (Gillard/Rudd tag team match)/Greens and Indies will go with governing the country, over the next couple of years, so far every major policy has turned from gold to turd

Of course the supporters are correct 150 pieces of legislation have been passed, but I don’t think legislation regarding Ministerial Assistants receiving 5 extra staples and paper clips, really affects me in any great way.

Adam Diver says:

08:30am | 23/09/11

I would be interested to hear from our leanrned punchers exactly how the greenback is a safe investment, I thought the US was just printing them?

Erick says:

08:42am | 23/09/11

@Adam Diver - I’ve heard that investors are departing the share market to seek safety in the American dollar. I have no idea why - it seems to me the American dollar is a very shaky prospect at the moment.

But then, people voted for the politicians who endangered the dollar in the first place. Go figure.

Anubis says:

08:58am | 23/09/11

Cue Gerry Harvey….

Dash says:

09:15am | 23/09/11

Guys, don’t go near the US dollar. For starters, their interest rates are as low as they can go. And if they start printing more of it, the US dollar will devalue and inflation in the US will rise sharply.

The Americans need to come up with a way to cut spending and raise taxes. And they need to do what the Howard government did here, and pay off the debt.

The one thing the US has in it’s favour is the size of it’s economy. However, growth seems to ge a long way off for them.

I suspect the market moves are more about moving capital between the lessor of two evils at the moment (i.e. the US vs Europe)

The European crisis is very interesting. Places like Ireland, Spain and Greece have given up their currencies and as a result the monetary policy levers which goes with it. They basically have no monetary policy lever to use. Economic indicators are worse in the UK than Spain, but because the UK retained it’s currency, they can manage their way out of it. the Spanish are limited in what they can do.

I was recently in Germany and the economists at the conference there presented a very gloomy picture if the Europeans don’t manage to sort out this mess. They were talking 1930s depression!

Meanwhile, the Gillard government considers this the perfect time to hit our economy with a carbon tax!??

MadKat of Melbourne says:

09:36am | 23/09/11

Hi Dash,

I’ve read recent data on consumption and production suggests US growth reaccelerated to the 2.5% - 3.0% range in the third quarter - real consumer spending is up - and business investment in equipment and software is up - hopefully they will keep out of a double dip - and if Greece goes the US banks don’t have a high direct exposure - so fingers crossed

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on why the Euro countries gave up their currencies - did they not think ahead -

AdamC says:

09:42am | 23/09/11

My totally amateur view (not to be taken at all seriously) is that there are two dynamics at work here.

First is Australian dollar weakness. Currencies like the Australian dollar are leveraged to commodity prices and, therefore, the global economy. (While the ‘China story’, which still seems - in large part - to be chugging along fairly well - has structurally bolseterd the Aussie, it is still a cyclical, volatile currency.) As a result, fears of a ‘double dip recession’ necessarily weaken the Aussie against other currencies.

Another element of this is the carry trade. Among highly liquid currencies, the Aussie is very high-yielding. Therefore, you can sell your 0% interest Dollars, Yen and Eruos and buy higher-return Aussies and laugh all the way to the bank. Of course, currency depreciation can easily wipe out the interest increment, so signs of weakness can see a stampede towards the door.

The second dynamic is US dollar strength. It seems that markets are vascillating between fears about the long term health of the US economy and budget position and panic about Europe’s ongoing mess. At the moment, American fear is preferable to European panic.

acotrel says:

09:48am | 23/09/11

The farmers have got it right.  If you are into cattle and the prices are low, by the time you get into sheep the situation will have changed.  If you chase the market you will lose.  Better to stay with your investments, and not crystallise your losses.  If every self-funded retiree withdrew from the stock market, where would we be ?  I suggest it would guarantee a depression. The whole thing is about confidence.  Destroy that, and we’ve got a really big problem !

Adam Diver says:

10:16am | 23/09/11

Great replies guys, I suspected that to be somewhat the case. It essence it seems that the

American Dollar > american stockmarket > Europe

If this is the case Europe is in some deep troubles “but at least we don’t have as much debt as them” for another partisan attack .

sneakers says:

10:20am | 23/09/11

Absolutely, acotrel.

As they say : it’s time in the market, not market timing.

Shenanigans says:

10:38am | 23/09/11

I knew all those uber low prices on Steam were going to bite me in the arse sooner or later. i was enjoying get a few dollars off my game purchases, least i got in all my preorders so i don’t have to suffer.

wont someone think of the gamers?!?!

Shane From Melbourne says:

11:39am | 23/09/11

The ongoing economic crisis is simply a result of nations refusing to take their medicine. The PIGS will eventually have to leave the Eurozone or default on their debt or both and the United States will eventually have to default on their debt- it is becoming impossible to even service the interest on their debt let alone pay off the principle. Not to mention all the unfunded liabilities the United States has in Social Security, Medicare, Government Pensions etc.

Ben C says:

11:46am | 23/09/11

@ Adam Diver

It really depends on when you invested in the USD. If you invested when we were well above parity, like at USD1.10, and sold now, you’d be making a nice little profit. Let me explain:

To buy USD1.00, when the rate was USD1.10-AUD1.00, you would have spend AUD0.91.

To now sell that USD1.00 when the rate is USD0.97-AUD1.00, you would receive AUD1.03.

This would also go to explain why you would want to be running an export business now, and an import business a few months back.

Zeta says:

12:11pm | 23/09/11

@ Adam Diver - That ‘quantititive easing’ is just wholesale printing of money is really just tea party rhetoric, and simplistic rhetoric at that.
US Federal Reserve uses a thing called a ‘discount window’ which means commercial banks can borrow from the Fed at a low rate.

The banks use that money to buy Treasury bills and bonds, then Treasury approaches these banks, called primary dealers, who sell the bonds on the open market to raise money for the Fed, one of the ways quantitive easing works is when the Fed buys the bonds back, no money changes hands, the value of the T-bills is credited to the dealers account when it buys securities - what the Fed basically does is prints money to lend itself thus increasing the money supply.

The Fed Reserve also sets the bank loan reserve rate, as in, a bank can only loan out so many dollars while keeping a dollar in reserve. If a bank can loan 10 dollars for every 1 kept reserved, that’s essentially printing 10 extra dollars everytime someone takes out a loan, that is, the bank is making money out of thin air. All the money is theoretical - but the profit the bank makes in fees is not, that money is funneled back into their cash reserves or loaned back out for more fees, more cash.

This is the heart of the bubble economy we’re currently on the tail end of, hopefully, unless we’re all persuaded to buy carbon credits. It’s what Allen Greenspan’s own biographer referred to as ‘drinking yourself sober’ - everytime a bubble bursts, the Fed simple injects more money so that the credit drunk banks can get even more wasted.

Compared to, everything else, the greenback is a safe investment. Because buying currency is, in the wheels and roundabouts of the current global banking regime, a way of keeping cash in a single place. Your money exists as money, and it’s an insurance against losing more money than you’ve already spent.

But there is a very real risk, that as we see bubbles grow and pop across the economic landscape, that the biggest bubble is too big for us to perceive - that maybe the US Dollar itself is becoming a speculative bubble, and when it pops, the whole house of cards will fall down around us.

Damian Parkhill says:

12:14pm | 23/09/11

@Shenanigans

I wouldn’t use steam, its a well known fact that they charge us Aussies more to download the same products than the rest of the world.

Punch in “Steam’s biggest ripoffs” in goggle and see for yourself.

Also to add more to this topic - the IMF in Europe now want -another- bailout for the banks at taxpayer expense….........

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/22/imf-chief-europe-bail-out-banks

This is going to end well…...

Let the good times roll!

Damian Parkhill says:

12:20pm | 23/09/11

As it looks like they swamped the price comparison tool for steam on google I found the link to the tool.

http://www.steamprices.com/au/topripoffs

Kinda gross how much advantage people take advantage of us while our government sits around on its ass.

TimB says:

01:10pm | 23/09/11

Really Damian? Different pricing on Steam? That’s weird.

Maybe it depends on the games? I don’t know, everything I buy on there seems to be in $US. I know I picked up Portal 2 for $49.99 US back when we had the high dollar. So that worked out WAY cheaper than the retail copies here.

I get all sorts of cheap PC stuff these days off steam. All I need is for Sierra to re-release their old Quest games, and EA to give us Red Alert 2 and I’ll be very happy..

Damian Parkhill says:

01:28pm | 23/09/11

@TimB

Did you pay in USD or AUD?

Damian Parkhill says:

02:04pm | 23/09/11

@Timb

Nm read that wrong, I’d have to fire up steam and take a look (just upgraded to Windows 7 so everything needs reintalled)  - but the last time I was using Steam I bought Supreme Commander 2 for 69 AUD and that was at nearly at par with the USD - afterwards I found it was going at 49 in USD.

Not really something that I would get out of joint about, but its still profiteering.

NicoleG says:

09:34am | 23/09/11

Have fun nossy.

acotrel says:

09:59am | 23/09/11

@Nossy
Doesn’t the Lodge overlook Sydney Harbour ?  You could sail up and drop in for drinkies with Tim ?

TimB says:

10:29am | 23/09/11

Acotrel, the Lodge is Canberra doofus.You’re thinking of Kiribilli House.

Also Nossy is from the Gold Coast, not Sydney.

You *really* don’t pay attention to facts do you?

Shenanigans says:

10:43am | 23/09/11

acotrel, most of the time i ignore your really sad attempts at trolling, but your stupidity has made me bite this time.
the lodge is in Canberra and Queensland is NORTH of Sydney.

have fun nossy, try not to fall in the drink

Shenanigans says:

10:44am | 23/09/11

DAMMIT TIM, beat me to the punch *chuckle chuckle*

Aitch B says:

11:03am | 23/09/11

@acotrel

Er.. The Lodge is in Canberra. I guess there might be a view of Lake Burley Griffin from the roof.

Kirribilli House is the PM’s residence in Sydney.

NicoleG says:

11:39am | 23/09/11

Now come on, be nice. I haven’t checked yet, but maybe they moved the lodge and Sydney harbour to the Gold Coast? Or maybe they moved Canberra to Sydney harbour? Or the Gold Coast to Canberra? 

Ben C says:

11:52am | 23/09/11

Enjoy nossy. Would love to be out on the water - anywhere other than this office even - looking at 29C in Sydney city, 32 out west where I am.

gra gra says:

12:40pm | 23/09/11

Tim B, the perfectionist.  I looked for “doofus”, could not be found. I looked up “The Lodge” and found that it is not “Canberra” but instead is “in” Canberra”.
You “really, really” don’t pay attention to “facts”, do you.
Of course, your version actually attests to the “fact” that ‘Sydney’, (whoever he is), is not from the Gold Coast, but that Nossy is.
I apologise for any errors, but I’m just not perfect.

NicoleG says:

01:01pm | 23/09/11

You didn’t look hard enough gra gra

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/doofus

Or here

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doofus

Or here

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doofus

You’re welcome.

TimB says:

01:03pm | 23/09/11

Wow.

You spend an entire post pointing out typos, grammatical errors and usage of slang words.

Just how sad are you?

The meaning of my post was clear to anyone with two or more brain cells to rub together. So I can see why you had trouble understanding it. Acotrel was just plain wrong, on two counts.

Notice you joined him in the wrong brigade over the whole Thomson thing further up the page too. More time checking facts. Less time pointing out meaningless errors. That’s my advice to you, oh not-so-righteous one.

ausspud says:

01:10pm | 23/09/11

@Nossy
Have fun air-drowning those poor little fishies

TimB says:

01:23pm | 23/09/11

My apologies to “The Righteous One”

I have no idea why, but for some reason I thought you posted that pathetic response to me. I must have been looking at the wrong thing. It seems gra gra was the sad and pathetic individual in question.

That’ll teach me to pay more attention.

RyaN says:

09:57am | 23/09/11

And you lot still cannot see that the ALP has been taken over by socialists and commies!

gobsmack says:

09:58am | 23/09/11

Doesn’t seem to have inhibited your exercise of free speech.

Dash says:

10:53am | 23/09/11

gobsmack - enjoy the Punch whilst it lasts. News Limited is in the ALPs sights!

It’s a sad day when we have a government that is holding an inquiry into the media just becasue the media is holding them accountable for being so crap!

I bet the ALP don’t look at the ABC or Fairfax.

gobsmack says:

11:39am | 23/09/11

@Dash
Apparently, News Limited will be changing its name soon and charging for entry to its websites (moderators may be able to confirm this).  So the ALP may be beaten to the punch by Rupert.

marley says:

11:50am | 23/09/11

Okay, question - is this censorship of a political view, or the owners of the station backing away from a potential defamation suit for broadcasting falsehoods?  I don’t know the answer to that.  Does anyone?

The righteous one says:

12:08pm | 23/09/11

you dont have the right to free speech. it’s not in the constitution, but there is a convention for free speech in this country.  However, there is a right under the UN convention for human rights, but neither major political party take much notice of human rights conventions from the UN

ausspud says:

01:17pm | 23/09/11

@Dash
Did you get aproval from Labor to write your opinion,if not i must do my duty and inform the communist i mean labor party.

Dash says:

09:30am | 23/09/11

Dude, I’m an accountant with an economics degree. Spelling (not to mention typing) has never been my strong point.

At least you’re still reading it!

MadKat of Melbourne says:

10:01am | 23/09/11

I’m sure even demons want freedom of speech -

acotrel says:

10:02am | 23/09/11

@Dash
Can you use a calculator, or do you have a robot to do that for you ?

Anubis says:

10:10am | 23/09/11

Wasn’t picking on you Dash, I just love the idea of DEMONcratic Rights, sounds like much more fun than than straight laced ole democracy.

Shenanigans says:

10:49am | 23/09/11

Dash, i hope you’re a chartered accountant and are familiar with the chartered accountant dance if not, I am disappoint sir.

Demons don’t need need permission for free speech, they take your free speech and cram it down your throat, till you get some bad arse space marine….. damn games making me digress…

Dash says:

10:56am | 23/09/11

@Alan - yeah mate and I can even use my brain to think for myself rather than swollow everything that’s fed to me.

TimB says:

11:27am | 23/09/11

Digress away Shen. Have you finished the campaign yet?

IMO It proves what I have *always* said. NEVER trust the Inquisition. They’re douchebags. All of them.

Also Leandros is a turd burger.

Ben C says:

12:07pm | 23/09/11

@ Dash

acotrel is in that far, far away land known as retirement. It’s a place where people do sweet FA and loads of it. This means that they don’t have to use their brains, and don’t give a stuff if the rest of society (who are still working) get screwed over, because they no longer have to put in the hard yards.

Maybe acotrel should get back into the workforce. It might help him build up his superannuation again, if nothing else.

Shenanigans says:

12:12pm | 23/09/11

i have indeed finished the campaign, the final fight gave me the shits though NO ONE LIKES QUICK TIME EVENTS!!!!

although i enjoyed it i felt it could have been a shit load better, (prepare for major nerd rage) for instance you should have been able to gallivant about in the titan, there should have been dreadnaughts and terminators, hell there wasn’t even any Basilisks or Leman Russ’s for the Imp guard, I mean what the hell, there are like a bajillion Basilisks and Leman Russ and not a single one was seen.  Not to mention the fact the orks would not have been able to slaughter almost the entire population of a forge world (according to warhammer lore the smallest forge world exceeds a population of 20 billion), just ARGH, AAARRRGGHH!!!

IMHO I’m a little over the whole space marine vs orks vs chaos thing, there are other races in the 40k universe, why not Tau? why not Necrons? or even Eldar (being space fairies aside, would love to play a game as a warp spider :p)

TimB says:

12:47pm | 23/09/11

Actually I’m suprised the Eldar wern’t in it. It seems to be a standard 40k story:

- Adeptus Astartes get called into deal with Ork invasion
- Evidence is uncovered of manipulation behind the scenes (pesky Eldar)
- The REAL enemy is revealed (Chaos or Tyranids).
- When dealing with Chaos, there will be a traitor somewhere in the Imperial forces- Usually the Inquisitor.

Like I said, the Eldar were the only things missing from this iteration of the formula

I’m with you on more stuff, but I think they did a really good job for their first crack at the genre. But for the sequel, I expect a LOT more classes in multi (Veterans, Terminators, Librarians, Apothecaries, Chaplains, Techmarines etc). Maybe a dreadnought as you said although that would be pretty OP. Possibly campaign only, story POV switches to the dread.

Then they need to add in vehicles. Predators, razorbacks, landspeeders. It’d be *really* cool if they added in my beloved stormraven gunship. That thing is a beast.

Increase the scale of multi to fit everything in. I’m talking Battlefield:Space Marine edition. It’d be awesome.

Who knows, maybe the upcoming Dark Milennium MMO is going to have this sort of stuff. An MMO/Shooter hybrid. Now that’d be sweet.

gra gra says:

01:04pm | 23/09/11

@Dash. I would have thought that an accountant with an ‘economics’ degree would need some spelling ability, not only now but during the days of aquiring same ‘degree’.
When flitting around the world,(that’s right, isn’t it?), do you mistakenly write, ” Buy cattle by the shitload”, instead of “..by the shipload”?
Or advising your enquiring investor, who can’t decide between a brothel and a stable, to “Put his money into whoresflesh”?
Accountant? Degree?
You do write a nice verse now and then, I will say.

Zeta says:

01:11pm | 23/09/11

None of you have any taste. Space Marine was the most disappointing game of 2010, except for pretty much every other commercial release this year.

It took 5 hours to finish. Gameplay was pretty much ‘press a, then press b, press a, repeat’. Being set in the 40K universe didn’t save it, in fact, it just highlighted more of the ridiculousness of Games Workshop’s poorly plotted aspie mess. There hasn’t been a good 40K game since Firewarrior on PS2. True facts. Maybe Dawn of War - the original, not the Diablo rip off sequel.

The 40K MMO will go free to play within six months of release, that is if anyone actually bothers to play it.

This, in a year where the most anticipated game, Deus Ex: Human Revolution had one of the worst non endings of any game since Halo 3. There haven’t even been that many games this year worth pirating, let alone buying.

I’ve been playing Mount & Blade: Warband, got it for $3.73 on Steam and have already clocked 20 hours.

JC says:

01:14pm | 23/09/11

@ Shen and TimB

I thought the ending fight was incredibly stupid as well, you could literally just repeatedly mash the mouse buttons and whatever key it was all at the same time and you won’t lose.

Inquisition did what it had to, I’m just glad it was only and ultramarine

On the note of seeing necrons and such again, maybe expect them in dawn of war 3? From what I’ve heard they are doing with that game is going to be amazing.

TimB says:

01:40pm | 23/09/11

@ JC, yes I guess if it had to happen to any chapter I’m glad it was the Ultrasmurfs too

That being said though I still detest the Inquisition. Any Blood Angels player worth their salt does .  Except for Amberley Vail. She’s cool.

Leandros is a pathetic excuse for a Space Marine. You don’t treat your battle-brothers like that. If he had issues he should of at least kept it in-chapter.

And QTE=fail. Especially on a 360 controller.

Lol @ Zeta and Fire Warrior. Dawn of War 1 was kickass though.

Damian Parkhill says:

01:57pm | 23/09/11

Guh, Eldar, blue weeboos, Chaos, Inquisition, Stormravens and Blood Angels all in one topic…....

The Sons of the Lion disapprove of this heresy!

*Checks his boltgun*

Time to go purge some heretics!

TimB says:

02:12pm | 23/09/11

That’s what we need. A Dark Angels game in the vein of Hitman Or Assasins Creed. Play as an Interrogator-Chaplain hunting down the Fallen.

JC says:

02:23pm | 23/09/11

@ TimB

Why not an assasin game playing as an Ervesor or something.
Oh my god that would be insane.
Seriously 40Ks badassery is limitless.

Damian Parkhill says:

02:57pm | 23/09/11

Heh I can see it now…......

Inquisitor Nu Nub: After I’ve finished clearing out this nest of chaos scum, me and you are going to have a “chat” about this Cypher’s claims….

Interrogator-Chaplain Azmodius: .......... As you wish Inquistor…....

*Inquisitor walks away*

A) Shoot him.
B) Knock him out, torture -then- shoot him.
C) Claim his gone rogue and tell the Devastators to shoot him.
D) Vox for a lance strike on the Chaos hideout while his attacking it.

D)

*This is Interrogator-Chaplain Azmodius to Battle Barge Lion’s pride,....... A Chaos cult has been detected at location 32,12,43 Alpha point 2, requesting indiscriminate orbital bombardment of the target location in 10 minutes*

Ben C says:

12:24pm | 23/09/11

I’ve got to get my backside around to ordering some of those stickers. Problem I have is that everytime I see a car with those stickers, it’s when I’m driving down the highway to work…

adam says:

12:36pm | 23/09/11

Hi Fairs,

A change of “shift” means I was able to get all my grown up stuff done earlier than expected so, southerly pending, I shall put the good ship Longtom to sea (lake really) and throw good money after bad whilst drowning bait.

Question for you,I remember you saying any one you married would have a well fed look to them, will that change after your boot camp successes?

Aitch B says:

12:37pm | 23/09/11

@fairsfair

Sorry to hear about your lousy week. Hot springs sounds like a nice idea. Perhaps pack some chicken and avocado rolls and a nice bottle of bubbly…. I would!

Reasonably busy one for me…. washing clothes and watching the footy tonight - hope the Hawks and Pies knock themselves out! Occasionally switch over to see how badly we’re doing against the USA in the RWC. Probably watch the late night replay of the Sea Eagles Broncos game.

A bit of shopping tomorrow morning before watching the mighty Cats demolish West Coast in the afternoon.

Playing a gig at a local venue tomorrow night - hope they have the Storm game on the big screen.

Spit roast at the same venue on Sunday afternoon with some jamming and open mic stuff happening.

All interspersed with some fine ales and maybe a CC and dry or two/three/four….

fairsfair says:

12:59pm | 23/09/11

Ben, I have been so slack. I haven’t done it in weeks. The stickers are pretty expensive (they are like $3 or $4 each!!), so thankfully I have been given a few, otherwise I would have to be doing it on and off. I was driving the other night and was enraged when I saw a Toyota Spacia van with fifteen kids on it, three adults and chickens, horse, cats, dogs, birds, fish. It was absolutely unbelievable. I couldn’t get the hands on the phone in time and the horror was lost forever. They would have had like $150 worth of white vinyl stick figures on their car. Unbelievable.

Adam, weekend of fishing would be nice. It seems to be shaping up to some nice weather up here too, so looking forward to it. Re padded man, nah I don’t think so. I am not overly worried about looks, but I would hate to be bigger than my partner - it just seems weird. On top of being a bit out of shape myself at the moment, I am to put it quite politely “built like a brick shithouse”, so I seem to be attracted to well built people. Saying all that, my past partners and people I have been interested in have not always fitted that description.

Aitch, ooh - yes forgot about the footy. Will definately watch the Broncs tonight and catch the RWC (which hopefully Channel 9 telecast). I didn’t know you were in a band! I will certainly be indulging in a couple of Cradle Bays this evening. In fact, I think I might have a cheese and wine night for dinner. Hardly healthy - but a nice treat at the end of a crappy week Bring it on I say!

Aitch B says:

01:31pm | 23/09/11

@fairsfair

Yes I am, ff but alas it will be our last gig with our current lineup. The drummer and vocalist (husband and wife) have decided to have a rest so we’re looking for replacements.

I hate auditioning people for spots in the band…. pain in the arse!!

I might throw down a couple of Beez Neez as well - just for a change.

ausspud says:

01:33pm | 23/09/11

I am hoping to have sexual relations this weekend.
In other words, I have no plans this weekend.

adam says:

01:36pm | 23/09/11

aint nothing wrong with a bit of meat on the bones fair, nothing wrong at all

fairsfair says:

02:07pm | 23/09/11

Particularly the vocalist aitch. That would be tough - kind of determines the overall vibe of the band. Personally, I think Inxs only achieved it with John Stevenson, but for some reason they have still saught to replace Hutchinson without luck. I hope you find your Stevenson! Best of luck!

I like Beez Neez. I have only had it once, but it is a rather refreshing drop. The local Dan Murphys has started selling locally distilled beer - I have tried a few, but sadly - it is utter shyte.

Ausspud - rofl. That was pretty funny

Indeed there is not adam. There is not. I tend to place unrealistic expectations on myself and for that reason am unable to trust the intentions of other people. It has seen me developed a really skewed self image I think and for that reason I have never developed a “type”. The female mind (and particularly this one) is a twisted place indeed!

Knemon says:

02:13pm | 23/09/11

“what is everyone up to this weekend?”

If Hawthorn lose tonight I will mope around the house for days on end drinking copious amounts of Rum…if they win, I will just drink more Rum!

NicoleG says:

02:25pm | 23/09/11

LOL ausspud. You really are funny. Knemon, I’m with you. But they will win!!

Aitch B says:

03:12pm | 23/09/11

@fairsfair

Thanks for that. You’re dead right - the band’s set list tends to revolve around the vocalist to some extent. If we end up with a male vocalist we’ll have to turf at least half of the stuff we do and get up to speed on some new material quick smart.

The other problem with auditions for vocalists is that you often get people who reckon they can sing but in reality they can barely hold a note!

Telling people they’ve missed out on the position is also something I don’t enjoy. :(

Seamus says:

12:55pm | 23/09/11

I am sure you will find more than a few countries went off to war against other peoples to ensure their way of life was sustained. Oh hold on, that is still happening…..

Shane From Melbourne says:

12:53pm | 23/09/11

No, but I have seen The Phantom Menace…...

Max, of Rocky says:

01:18pm | 23/09/11

@  Shane From Melbourne

“May the farce be with you, always”

natweeza says:

02:17pm | 23/09/11

Well I haven’t seen the Phantom Menace (or any other Star Wars movie for that matter - I refuse on principle) but I can’t imagine that with George Lucas behind it and the budget it had that it could be worse than Robotropolis. Zoe Naylor and a host of other D-grade Aussie “actors” were outshone by the robots. Yes, the actors were more robotic than the evil robots that were trying to kill them. Spending two hours with a look of incedulity on my face actually hurts,

ausspud says:

01:28pm | 23/09/11

She really has to stop having these Bart Simpson ’ I didnt do it ” moments & take the blame for her own shit.
Abbott this
Abbott that
Its all Abbotts fault
I dont think she realises how pathetic its getting.

Aitch B says:

02:19pm | 23/09/11

@NicoleG

Surely she can’t be so blind as to think people are buying that garbage…. it really is laughable. And pathetic!!!

Next thing she’ll be asking us not to call her “Shirley”!!!

NicoleG says:

02:22pm | 23/09/11

Pathetic is an understatement. She carries on like a kid having a massive tanti. She sure is doing herself no favours. God I wish she’d just shut her trap.

Knemon says:

02:22pm | 23/09/11

Gillard is the one pushing for off-shore processing which will supposedly put a stop to the boats. It is The Greens and the LNP who are arguing for on-shore processing, so in a round-about way, Gillard is correct!

Aitch B says:

03:38pm | 23/09/11

@Knemon

Yet when she was in opposition she was bagging the living daylights out of the government for their offshore processing legislation.

Go figure…........

JC says:

03:35pm | 23/09/11

I should play it at work.

Boss: JC you can’t be doing that.
JC: HERESY!
Boss: You’re fired…
JC: Only in death does duty end!

TimB says:

03:54pm | 23/09/11

Haha .

Doesn’t Ork tech work simply because they *believe* that it works? Just cobble some random components, add some Orky decorations (spikes and whatnot), add a healthy dose of Orky faith, and voila! Big shooty death stompa thingy. No need to pester the Adeptus Mechanicus at all.

Shenanigans says:

05:01pm | 23/09/11

thats orky tech for ya, some nails, some bolts stick it in a roughly bolter shaped box, BELIEVE and you has a shoota.

but the Adeptus Mechanicus has all the cool tanks and artillery for tha boyz to loot

TimB says:

05:57pm | 23/09/11

You’re going to have to be more specific Adam. Lots of my posts qualify .

I’m just happy that others here recognize their duty to the Golden Throne of Terra .

TimB says:

05:55pm | 23/09/11

Yes because an entire post spent nitpicking grammar and spelling is considered a ‘reasonable argument’ in your world.

You wouldn’t know a reasonable argument if it bit you on the ass.

gra gra says:

10:43pm | 23/09/11

You are so right TimB. I wouldn’t know a reasonable argument if it bit me on the “ass”?. That is because I primarily read arguments, ( for that read ‘abuse’), from Liberal Party HQ, channelled through gullible fools like you and Dash.
By the way, you must have been too busy to list the Abbott policies I asked for. Too bad, it would only have taken about 28 seconds.
HQ hasn’t defended Mirabella, the ‘Great Innovator’ yet, have they? Please let us all know when they pass on the get-out plan for the scheming extractor of demented people’s money, won’t you. Sorry? But you’re one of the people that labelled our democratically elected PM a liar, aren’t you?
Abbott told fibs when he said a carbon tax was on his agenda, or he told fibs when he said it wasn’t, but you can’t really take him to task for that can you. I mean, the bloke’s a catholic priest, and we know how honorable catholic priests are don’t we.
Tell your scriptwriters to pick up their game, because they are leaving you and the poor frustrated Dash without a feather to fly with. They need to change their insistance that the ordinary Aussie, (remember him/her?), should not be the source of any Government’s penalty base for over-pollution. That should be the responsibility of the multi-million, (billion?), dollar companies which benefit enormously from their polluting of the air we breathe.
Forget Abbott’s, (and your), “carbon tax” terminology. There is no carbon tax, as our PM promised. There is however a penalty for polluting our space above the permissable level.
If a local business contaminates my local water course by dumping pollutants they are subject to penalty. Do you and your opportunistic syncophantic Abbott-loving fellow-travellers think that such penalties should be paid by my neighbours and I? And you? Of course you don’t. But, directed by the great baton of the big end of town to whom you kotow, you’ll say you do.
When those pollutants cause your kid’s teeth to fall out will you say, “I never knew”? When they are in ICU for lead poisoning, will you say, “I didn’t know”?
As long as Abbott has your prime concern, you blokes will say, or deny, anything. It’s all about priorities, and we know what the priorities of the servant of Rome are.
This is my last post.
gra gra says, “Goodbye. When winning becomes more important than the future of our children, I figure it’s time to book out of a contest I choose not to be a part of”. Caio!