Punch on: Open Thread 16/01/2012

acotrel says:

06:00am | 16/01/12

A while back we used to spend heaps of money on manufacturing defence equipment and associated research.  What does the government spend the excess funds on these days, now that our industry has been devolved and the assetts sold off by John Howard?

nihonin says:

07:20am | 16/01/12

Sponsoring boat jumpers and people like you acotrel, who think paying your taxes is like putting money in bank for when you retire.

Sarah says:

09:56am | 16/01/12

I’m a single on a good income and I am sick to death of forking out a tonne in taxes so that these people who CHOOSE to pump out kids can stick their hands out and get loaded up with welfare. Bastards.

Dash says:

10:25am | 16/01/12

I’m a father of 3 and I pay too much tax to be eligible for welfare. Not everyone with Kids is on welfare or is looking for it! Many of us with kids and paying our way, are just as sick of paying for others lifestyle choices!

If you are educated, a PAYG taxpayer and contributing to the nations wealth, the ALP has a target on your back. If you are already on wealfare and contribute little if anything financially to the nation, the ALP want to reward you. It’s wrong and it’s madness.

Just look at the compensation scheme under the carbon tax fraud. Wealth redistribution at work. Take money from the people creating the nation’s wealth and give it to those destroying it. And to make matters worse, use the environment as an excuse to do it!

Daryl says:

10:37am | 16/01/12

Acotrel, perhaps the ALP shouldn’t have burdened the country with $96billion in debt! And they never learn! They are doing it all over again. Keating lost our AAA rating. Everyone knows by now that the ALP do not know how to handle money.

Knemon says:

11:16am | 16/01/12

@ Dash - “Take money from the people creating the nation’s wealth and give it to those destroying it”

Can you please point out which section of the carbon tax legislation deals with that…I’m having trouble finding it?

Dash says:

12:03pm | 16/01/12

Knemon - the Carbon tax compensation scheme! It compensates people on the basis of what they earn, not on the basis of how they pollute. The ALP compensate the high polluting industries of coal and steel, and then tell everyone it’s about “making the big polluters pay”. Bullshit!

The ALP is using the environment as an excuse to take more from the people already paying the most in tax and to redistribute it to people who are paying the least tax. It will do nothing for global temperatures. It is nothing but a fraud. The ALP has sold itself out to the loony greens!

People that pollute more than me get compensated. Why? What does that have to do with the environment? What a load of bullshit!

And to make matters worse, the ETS, will see the nations wealth flow overseas to dodgy carbon credit merchants in Asia and Africa on the basis of a promise to plant a tree! Give me a freakin’ break!

Why isn’t it “Global Warming” any more Knemon? Why is it suddenly Climate Change?
Why has Canada pulled out of Kyoto?
Why has the ALP signed us up to punitive damages with the UN?
Why are the UK pulling back on their targets and debating Nuclear energy?
Why is NZ talking about scrapping their tax (which is less than half ours)?
China - nothing, India - nothing, USA - nothing!
Why is the ALP telling us our coal in China in increasing quantities is good, but our coal here is bad?
Why is fuel in domestic motor good but fuel in transport haulage bad?
Why did the ALP promise a citizen’s assembly and then bow to Green pressure and deliver a 2 party climate committee of yes men?
Why did the ALP use $10m of taxpayers money setting up the Climate Institute to write reports telling us what the ALP want us to here?
Why the $13m propaganda mail out?
And why the hell do people like you fall for this nonsense?

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:20pm | 16/01/12

“If you are educated, a PAYG taxpayer and contributing to the nations wealth, the ALP has a target on your back”

Not to sure how many miners are educated pulling in the big bucks.

TheRealDave says:

12:21pm | 16/01/12

Unfortunatley we still do manufactuer Defence ‘Equipment’...and waste BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dolalrs in failures, re-fits , re-builds, re-designs and jsut general incompetance in the twits and engineers we pay to build gear we could have bought ‘off the shelf’, far cheaper and in far better quality.

Why do we continue to waste billions proppping up a couple of South Australian safe Liberal Seats?

Knemon says:

01:31pm | 16/01/12

@ Dash - Thanks for a great response. So many questions, I’m going to digest them and regurgitate some answers!

“And why the hell do people like you fall for this nonsense?”

Because I can:exclaim:

holden says:

02:42pm | 16/01/12

@Dash @1.03pm… You are quite right Dash. And I appreciate the opportunity at the bottom asking why anyone would believe what you had written. Thank you, and I promise never to fall for your nonsense again.

RyaN says:

03:23pm | 16/01/12

@Shane From Melbourne: I don’t get it Shane, does this mean that the rich with kids aren’t paying taxes or you are just pissed off because they are getting tax breaks for having kids?

Not that I agree with any of this welfare anyway, my personal stance is that a family should be taxed as a family whether they have kids or not and save the bureaucratic crap of Family Tax benefit Part B.

Fezzbo says:

03:48pm | 16/01/12

So typical of socialist like Knemon and holden to not give answers and just sling shit. I’m suprised nossy didn’t jump on the wagon as well.

The left love spouting rhetoric and then when someone asks a question that divides their thought process even slightly, they go for the “NAH-AAAAH!!! MY ARGUMENT IS BETTER THAN YOURS ‘CAUSE IT IS!!!”

Dash, hopefully most thinking Australians have done what you and I will do and dump the Greens and Labor deservedly on their ass.

On the subject of the article, I wonder how much cash is flung at rusted on, dole bludging, greenies just so Labor can continue to count on their vote…

Shane From Melbourne says:

06:53pm | 16/01/12

@RyaN- Welfare should be for the pensioners, short term unemployed or disabled. No one else. If the government needs to give back money because of bracket creep, they can do it on the basis of tax cuts which affect ALL taxpayers, not wealth redistribution to families via the welfare system. This is the evil middle class family welfare state which John Howard built.

RyaN says:

12:05am | 17/01/12

@Shane From Melbourne: 100% agree with tax cuts and scrapping welfare, just allow families to be taxed as families not individuals.
At present the means tests are all based on family income, but you don’t pay tax on family income, go figure.

Anyway, I don’t agree that taxes should be used for short term unemployed, if its short term they are going to receive a tax break anyway.

Arnold Layne says:

09:13am | 16/01/12

First day back for me too.  I feel your pain.

patsy says:

01:03pm | 16/01/12

Is reading The Punch part of your job description? I’d give you a warning. Or are you self employed media monitors?

John Smythe says:

03:06pm | 16/01/12

Or just people with nice paying jobs and enough time to do both our jobs, and post on thepunch. Jealous?

patsy says:

04:51pm | 16/01/12

Not jealous. I’ve just been offline attending to my business. Those two above sound like they are not interested in their work much. I’m not big enough to employ others and I sure as hell would’t be paying them to post on the Punch.

acotrel says:

06:17am | 16/01/12

@Erick
Various people on this forum have blamed the unions’ pursuit of decent pay and conditions for Australian industry moving offshore.  There is a simple fact that many do not seem able to grasp. In Australia OHS is covered by legislation which requires a level of risk management by business owners and their employees.  When you go overseas you become exposed to the lowest common denominator. When you travel on a foreign cruise ship, can you really expect Australian safety standards to apply when the crew are paid and trained at third world levels ?  If you want quality, you must pay for it, but ‘quality doesn’t cost - it pays’ !

marley says:

06:19am | 16/01/12

Actually, I think the tradition of “women and children first” derives from the sinking of the Birkenhead in the 1840s, long before the Titanic.  She was carrying troops, their wives and kids, went down, and as there weren’t enough lifeboats, the men let their families go first.  Most of the men died.  That became a legend, and it was that tradition which has been an informal rule ever since.

Should it change?  Possibly.  Though I tend to think that children should go first under any circumstances.  It’s not like they’ve got the strength to fight for a place in the lifeboats.

acotrel says:

07:00am | 16/01/12

I got a real laugh out of you, Erick ! ‘How could this have happened ? ” - DERRR ! ! !
You don’t know where your backside is !
Have a read up on the fundamentals of safety management ! !

Erick says:

07:01am | 16/01/12

@marley - It goes back a lot longer than that. Since humans first appeared, men have been the disposable sex. In case of danger, women and children have priority (though obviously there have been exceptions).

There are very obvious evolutionary reasons for this. Children take a long time to produce, and only women can produce them. A tribe with one man and ten women will survive, a tribe with ten men and one woman will perish.

TimB says:

07:03am | 16/01/12

Actually there was a Clive Cussler novel I read where a boat sank (I know that’s pretty much all of them ), and they made reference to exactly this rule, and how they were ignoring it in favour of a more modern version.

Apparently with the Titanic you had the women and children surviving- And the primary breadwinner of the family going down with the ship. Thus condeming those families to not only the pain of losing a husband or father, but also facing a life of increased hardship due to their reduced financial status.

For that reason, in the novel I read, the new amended rule was ‘families first’,  to keep that family unit together where posible. Singles- Male *and* female were the ones who had to wait.

Now this was a work of fiction, so I’m unsure if this new rule actually exists. But it does pose an interesting viewpoint.

acotrel says:

07:23am | 16/01/12

@TimB
There days we have travel insurance, so if Daddy perishes the family is monetarily better off, and also they don’t have to listen to his whingeing any more !

TimB says:

07:40am | 16/01/12

“There days we have travel insurance, so if Daddy perishes the family is monetarily better off, and also they don’t have to listen to his whingeing any more ! “

Holy crap Acotrel. This may be one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read from you. I wonder if your kids feel the same way about you?

marley says:

07:52am | 16/01/12

@acotrel - I’ll tell you a little story.  There was a ship called the Queen of the North - a large ferry carrying passengers on an overnight trip from Northern BC to Vancouver Island.  At around midnight, the passengers and most of the crew were asleep in their cabins. There were two people on the bridge - a male 4th officer and a female coxwain - and they were, depending on the version you believe, either in deep conversation or something a little more intimate, as the ship approached a narrow channel.  They ignored the radar, failed to make a course adjustment, and ran the ship onto rocks.  It sank, and two people died.

The company launched an inquiry:  the two bridge officers, on advice of their union, refused to answer any questions.  They then refused to answer any questions before a formal Transportation Safety Board inquiry.  They and their union, did, however, claim they had not been adequately trained for the positions they held.  Oh, and the union then filed a complaint with the Human Rights Commission because the company had had the temerity to ask the pair what had happened.  Ultimately, one of them was charged with criminal negligence.

Now these were well paid officers working in a company with an excellent safety record and in a country with strong OH&S standards.  Yet a valuable ship is at the bottom of the ocean, two people are dead, and exactly what happened is still not entirely clear.  And if you don’t think this sort of thing could ever happen in Australia, well, you’re a true optimist.  You may pay more for it here, but that doesn’t guarantee you’re going to get “quality.”  Because in the end, quality depends on people and not just systems.

Erick says:

07:57am | 16/01/12

@TimB - The poor bloke seems to be even less coherent than usual today.

Senile dementia is a terrible thing.

acotrel says:

07:58am | 16/01/12

@TimB
I’m with Erick !

TChong says:

08:47am | 16/01/12

marley
all a unions legal advisers could do is advise a person on their right to have the prosecution make a case, rather than a defendant have to prove they are innocent.
Any and everyone has the “right"to presumed innocence , unless proven otherwise.
Thats how our “westminister"legal system works, ? No ?
A union cant change laws , or offer special protection in this regard.
Even the story you use shows that laws were observed, and even with union advice ,one was convicted - so unions werent able to protect the person in the wrong, and, presumably , justice occurred.
Why shouldnt a unionist seek legal advice about a work place incident?
Hope your not suggesting all people need to prove they are innocent (rather than prosecutors prove guilt).
In this matter ( and the anecdote you used) the union status of the accused seems irrevalant.

Ben C says:

09:19am | 16/01/12

@ TChong

Your principle would apply if the same Westminster system was in place in Canada.

The righteous one says:

09:37am | 16/01/12

Senile dementia is a terrible thing.

Speaking from experience Erick?  Or do you just bay at the moon to hear the sound of your own lonely litlle insignificantly expendable male voice?

Erick says:

10:03am | 16/01/12

@Tory Shepherd - I think that would be a far better rule.

Still, at times of emergency, people tend to act on instinct, so our intellectual analysis of what they “ought” to do may not be very effective in practice.

fairsfair says:

10:12am | 16/01/12

OMFG - everyone would drown while you people sort out a system of who has the right to be saved first.

Erick is right. There should be no discrimination.

Please note that I would push you all out of the way to save myself and my loved ones. I am so sick of all this bullsh*t. We should just recognise that survival is a primal thing and deal with it. In these types of situations it literally is survival of the fittest.

Why would I um and ahh on the deck of a sinking ship wondering if those men over there would prefer women and children to go before them or if they would prefer to evacuate as a family unit?  Or would I ponder the pain as water filled my lungs while wondering if that man with the stick was blind, or was he just sweeping?

marley says:

10:23am | 16/01/12

@TChong - I go along with innocent until proven guilty in a court of law,  But we aren’t talking about the courts here, we’re talking about, first the employer, then the Safety Board asking the only two officers on duty what happened.  And getting totally stonewalled.  Safety is paramount, and the Board has to know if there was a problem with the ship’s equipment or the ship’s procedures:  otherwise, how can it order improvements?  As it is, it had a black box and a general idea of what happened, but the real story is still elusive.  And that puts everyone at risk, union members included.

The union then tried to make the deck officers out as martyrs and the company as the villain.  I believe they even challenged the company when it fired the pair.

And it was the union, not the individuals, who filed the complaint to the Human Rights Commission.  Sorry, but asking people what happened doesn’t constitute harassment in my book.  Forcing them to answer might, but that’s not what occurred.

Anyway, that wasn’t my point.  My point was that bad things happen, and no OH&S regime can prevent every eventuality;  it can just reduce the odds.

marley says:

10:30am | 16/01/12

Well, now that I think about, the Titanic wasn’t really about women and children first anyway - it was about first class passengers first, and steerage passengers going down with the ship. 

And sorry, Tory, but when you have an emergency, you don’t have time to sort out who’s got a swimming certificate and who hasn’t.  I guess it’s first come, first served (or saved).

fairsfair says:

10:51am | 16/01/12

Oversimplified alright. And outdated.

I am loving all the reports comparing this to the Titanic. They sank a few hundred metres off the coast in warm waters… ah… bit different.

Nobody’s life is worth more than another person’s. A woman is not worth more than a man. A mother is not worth more than a single man. A father is not worth more than a single woman.

This situation is a bit different, as like you say some swam to safety. It would have been dark though, and people would have been paniced so I guess we don’t know how bad it was onboard. In a general sense though, if you were a small person with a child and you could not cope in that situation - that is your issue. If you can’t swim more than 200m or you can’t ensure the safety of your children in such situations, parhaps you should factor that in when going on a cruise. Same could be said for plane travel. I would never let my kids fly on their own (appreciate that in some instances they have to) as I would not be there to protect them and/or die with them if it crashed.

Yes there should be order, but not discriminatory order. If that bunch of late twenties males on their bucks weekend got to the boat queue before I do with my children, they deserve to get on a boat before me. It is as simple as that.

Blind Freddy says:

10:57am | 16/01/12

I think that the correct order for abandoning a sinking ship is - rats, women and then children.

Erick says:

11:05am | 16/01/12

@marley - “the Titanic wasn’t really about women and children first anyway - it was about first class passengers first, and steerage passengers going down with the ship.”

I’m afraid you’re wrong about that. If you look at the survival statistics, more women and children from third class survived than did men from first class.

It really was a case of women and children first. So much for women being “property”.

Elphaba says:

11:11am | 16/01/12

I’m with fairs.  As if any mug sitting in the emergency exit on a plane is going to assist crew and other passengers to safety.

Get out of my way!!

Knemon says:

11:28am | 16/01/12

@ Erick - “A tribe with one man and ten women will survive, a tribe with ten men and one woman will perish”

Therefore we should save the women first…I assume this is what you’re arguing?

old fart says:

11:40am | 16/01/12

the comments here are a reflection of society, it’s all about me me me. 

I like to confuse the hell out of young ladies by letting them onto the bus first.  They really have been brought up well by their parents, absolutely clueless about courtesy.

I have to hand it to Erick, he is the king of segue from a ship hitting rocks to the persecution of men in one foul swoop.

Tim says:

11:58am | 16/01/12

Knemon,
No he is arguing that it used to be the case when both genders had to fulfill their side of the social contract.
Now that everyone is “equal” however, it should be every man for himself.

Ain’t equality grand.

MarkS says:

12:25pm | 16/01/12

“A tribe with one man and ten women will survive, a tribe with ten men and one woman will perish”

Only if there is just one tribe. Far better to save the 10 men from your tribe & then take the 10 women from a lone man of another tribe who can no longer defend them.

Only if that lone man is capable of defending the 10 women, say because he has firearms & the 10 men from the other tribe have spears, is saving the women a winning strategy. 

There is a reason why female infanticide & polygamy are very common social constructs in societies that must complete for limited resources & have a limit to the population they can sustain. From a certain sustainable population it gives that society a larger pool of violent young men to use to obtain the resources required.

The placing of women & children on a protected pedestal is an artefact of our 1st world societies. We do not need a large mass of young men to defend our societies & we control sufficient resources that we do not have limit our population. It is not a coincidence that the idea of women & children first began in Europe at a time when Europe was the most powerful society in the world, busy taking resources from the rest of the world.

Should our societies run into resource limits & need to complete for limited resources then we will see a different society evolve. I suspect the crunch time for the 1st world societies in the absence of vastly transforming technologies (say cheap fusion power) will come around the middle of this century.

marley says:

12:36pm | 16/01/12

@Erick:  or you could look at the Titanic’s figures this way:

First class survival odds 62%
Second class 41%
Third class 25%
Crew 23%.

Jason Todd says:

12:37pm | 16/01/12

@ Erick, I assume that is because the first glass gentlemen were of the culture and breeding that they would have insisted that women and children took their places.

Quaint. You’d not see that kind of sacrifice today.

Jane2 says:

01:00pm | 16/01/12

Maybe change it to “children and one adult per family first” but its not as clear cut.

Children first because they are less likely to be able to survive if they need to go in the water, that is logical.

The next logical step is you want every child to have a parent with them to keep them calm, under control and not “lost”.

As to teh gender of that parent, its not overly important,

You could say “men and children” but what about the babies? Do they stay onboard with their food source or go on the boat with the father, assuming he is onboard.

If you say “one parent per family” then the family have to decide whom they may sacrifice and who gets the life boat. In an emergency that could be valuable minutes wasted argueing instead of saving lives.

The final thought is, if there is a family with only one adult on board it is more likely to be the mother travelling alone with the kids than the father. I dont know why this is so but it is.

I hate to be sexist but “women and children” first does seem to the best, most straight forward direction to give.

Mind you, I cruise regularly and despite being a female I would be towards the back of the crowd in this situation. I have no kids and can swim so shouldnt get preferencial treatment based on my gender alone.

Erick says:

01:12pm | 16/01/12

@Knemon - Tim has explained my argument.

@Tory - “But ‘everyone for themselves’ would mean utter chaos, and imagine being a small person with a child trying to fight bigger, stronger people for room.”

Nevertheless, that is the only logical result if we insist that all people are equal.

@MarkS - You make some very good points. I had not considered those questions before, but I will now. Thank you.

@marley - It seems that the statistics support both of our interpretations. So it’s not either/or, but both/and.

Cookie Monster says:

10:36am | 16/01/12

On the basis of this one incident? Oh, and don’t fly because planes drop out of the sky and better not drive because cars crash. Bet your cotton wool and bubble wrap bills are high.

jay-ded says:

12:22pm | 16/01/12

ah Cookie Monster, I think you didn’t get S.L.‘s joke.

S.L says:

02:17pm | 16/01/12

Thanks jay-ded. Now what’s that joke about puting brains in statues?

acotrel says:

06:43am | 16/01/12

@Nossy
‘I do see that they have quickly apprehended the Captain who will most like never skipper anything larger than a row boat ever again. ‘

Might be a matter ‘of blaming the victim’, if the whole labour system is based on minimalisation of pay and conditions, neglect of training etc ? And that is where Australia is heading !

jay-ded says:

07:21am | 16/01/12

Hi nossy.  Heard on the radio this morning that the captain and crew were “showing off” to some of the passengers just before they ran into the submerged rocks…  Don’t know how true that was though.

nihonin says:

07:24am | 16/01/12

acotrel, this happened in Italy, not in Australia, head of arse time.  Agree nossy, this guy should have the book (a bloody big and heavy one) thrown at him, as well as his 1st mate it seems, they both jumped ship 6 hours before the last passenger was safely off it.

Mahhrat says:

07:26am | 16/01/12

@nossy - I want to be a boating person.

Enjoyed the morning on Friday on a little 20 foot half-cabin thing chartered by one Mr Flathead.  Caught about 23 fish, which fed ALL the family (like 13 of us) that night.  Good times.

nossy says:

08:34am | 16/01/12

@Mahhrat   excellent Mahhrat - its a most enjoyable pastime.

old fart says:

09:41am | 16/01/12

The captain said he didnt see the rock.  Well, the hole was under the waterline

S.L says:

06:34am | 16/01/12

Although I’m not the greatest pet lover in the world I can’t for the life of me understand why people do things like let dogs out of a strangers yard? Is it the same mentality as graffiti artists and vandals (read morons)? The “I had nothing to do and was bored” syndrome? Hope Max gets better soon Mahhrat!

Erick says:

06:57am | 16/01/12

Good luck to poor old Max. Long may his tail wag!

marley says:

07:13am | 16/01/12

Ahh, that’s sad, Mahrat.  Wish Max well from me and my mutt Toby.

TimB says:

07:20am | 16/01/12

Best of luck to your pooch Mahrat, I hope he pulls through. Taking a pet to the vet is always tough.

jay-ded says:

07:25am | 16/01/12

Poor Max.  Best of luck Mahhrat.

bec says:

07:30am | 16/01/12

I hope Max pulls through without needing to lose his tail!

redvixen says:

08:17am | 16/01/12

Good luck to Max.

The same thing happened to us many years ago.  And the man that ran over our dog asked for our phone number so he could send us the bill if his car was damaged!

She went on to have a very long and happy life.

Mahhrat says:

08:20am | 16/01/12

Good news everyone!! Max’s tail gets to stay!  The vet was happy enough with what she saw that some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics added to his pain meds, and we’ll see you in a month!

jay-ded says:

08:41am | 16/01/12

That’s the best news yet Mahhrat. 

nossy says:

08:50am | 16/01/12

@Mahhrat top stuff Mahhrat- glad Max’s tail is staying put.

fairsfair says:

08:53am | 16/01/12

Glad to hear it Mahhrat! Our dog lost his tail last year - same story.

The only difference being, his tail was “degloved” but because nobody could get near it to have a close look, it was decided that it was just broken. He started pulling the hair out of it one day and was booked to return to the vet the next morning for a check up. When we got up - no tail. He had (prepare to be grossed out) chewed it off and it was nowhere to be found (assumed eaten). It then had to be properly amputated higher up and he now has a furry stump that wags furiously.

It was quite scary - the prospect of losing him because of his tail was a bit too much to handle.

Such good news! Yays.

Bill says:

08:55am | 16/01/12

If your gate had been locked, then your dog wouldn’t have been wandering the streets and would not have been hit by a car.

You need to acccept responsibility for what has happened, pal.

Ben C says:

09:24am | 16/01/12

Wonderful news Mahhrat, hope Max makes a full and speedy recovery!

old fart says:

09:42am | 16/01/12

bummer

marley says:

10:27am | 16/01/12

@Bill -  Geez, does this mean I’ve got to go and buy a bunch of padlocks to lock my gates?  Or can I just assume that people won’t trespass on my property in order to open my gate and let the dog out?

Jade says:

10:55am | 16/01/12

Good to hear Max will be okay Mahhrat - he sure is cute too!

I don’t understand what compels people to do such a stupid thing though. I would be putting a lock on it in the future because someone may have a vendetta against you :S (lol sounds so dramatic but I don’t trust many people haha, specially if they let your dog out on purpose)

Slothy says:

12:12pm | 16/01/12

Best of luck for Max, Mahhrat! My family dog Bob lost his tail a couple of years back when he was also hit by a car. Dad came in the back gate and let him off the lead, not realising his partner had left the front gate open for them to come home through. Ute went past with a dog barking in the back - Bob was in the middle of the road before anyone could blink and got cleaned up by the car behind the ute. Poor thing, the car stripped all the skin and flesh off the tail and left him with just the bone.

He’s fine now, and only has a little pea brain so probably doesn’t remember it. The tail was amputated, and he now has an adorable furry stump and the nickname ‘Lord Wagglebottom’ thanks to his habit of wagging his entire behind when he gets excited. Oh, and Dad doesn’t let him off the lead until he’s sighted BOTH gates.

jay-ded says:

07:28am | 16/01/12

In my opinion I think that a few “developers of viruses” are probably employed on the sly by companies like McAfee, AVG and Norton.  How else can they be up to date with the latest viruses etc?

Knemon says:

11:49am | 16/01/12

@ jay-ded…“developers of viruses” are probably employed on the sly by companies like McAfee, AVG and Norton”

The cynic in me agrees with you. It makes commercial sense for the likes of Norton & McAfee to practice such. I wouldn’t touch any of these companies with a 40 foot barge pole!

jay-ded says:

12:27pm | 16/01/12

It’s funny Knemon.  As soon as my anti-virus checker runs out after the year without me re-paying for the new year, I mysteriously get a virus, yet my virus checker for the whole year didn’t find any viruses at all.

It’s the only conclusion I could reach logically.

TheRealDave says:

12:31pm | 16/01/12

Most are programmers taught to write ‘self replicating code’. Its part of their education and of course you’ll get some clowns who are just malicious and some who are just curious.

SimpleSimon says:

11:09am | 16/01/12

“Go on, laugh.”

I did

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:23pm | 16/01/12

Its crazy, Americans and their guns :s

Erick says:

02:46pm | 16/01/12

Awesome stuff nossy, thanks for the link!

Sometimes I do feel a bit of jealousy for the Americans and their freedom.

nossy says:

04:33pm | 16/01/12

@Erick if you liked that one Erick heres some crazy dude showing us how to fire a Glock! Strewth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbsgHbXubGU&feature=relmfu

Yuri says:

08:27pm | 16/01/12

Of course. Who else but FPSRussia.
Have nice day!

fairsfair says:

09:31am | 16/01/12

Fezzbo, it is far worse when they use #firstworldproblem and they aren’t even on Twitter…

jay-ded says:

09:39am | 16/01/12

Can’t say I’ve ever heard of the saying - before now.

Yuri says:

09:56am | 16/01/12

That in itself is a first world problem!

Seriously though, there are a lot of phrases and terms that people throw around to shut down debate as they think that by saying a single word (racist, sexist, homophobic etc.) they can automatically dismiss any claim or argument. I can see ‘first world problem’ quite easily becoming one of those terms (if it hasn’t already).

Semi Concerned Citizen says:

01:09pm | 16/01/12

Fezzbo,

It’s all relative. Whilst some battle starvation and people armed with machetes we battle the trappings of our society.
Life’s shit but we have to do it.

RyaN says:

03:52pm | 16/01/12

More Labor propaganda crap!

JS says:

10:24am | 16/01/12

Tell me fine and good luck selling.

You are the buyer, and if there is no one else to buy, then the more power to you. If they come back off their high horse, drop your offer 30grand, saying you had, unforeseen expenses while they played the market game.

Ben C says:

10:36am | 16/01/12

@ dancan

You might want to direct your anger a little towards the agent - they already know the seller’s target, they just advertise the property with a slightly lower price to attract buyers. In any case, I wouldn’t be looking at any place where the price guide is “From $X” or “POA” - that’s just a silent auction.

In any case, however, this is just a case of inexperience - there’s no need to feel down or angry about having your bid rejected. It happens to everyone - the seller wants to make a little bit more on their investment, the agent wants to earn a little bit more commission, so they’ll keep trying to push the price up.

My advice, having gone through the same process? Keep your head up, keep looking (you might find an even better place), be prepared to have your bid rejected, but never go beyond what you can afford.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:36am | 16/01/12

Was it a price say $300,000-$350,000? was it a flat price $350,000?

What was the agents reasoning? was there other people who offered over the asking price?

Jade says:

10:57am | 16/01/12

It’s a buyers market at the moment, if they don’t get any offers at the price they want they will drop it.

TheRealDave says:

12:51pm | 16/01/12

Wait two weeks - then offer $10 000 less than what you offered Friday - screw em

dancan says:

01:21pm | 16/01/12

thanks for the advice guys.  I was in a bad mood this morning but after a hearty lunch I feel much better.

The asking price was $270,000 plus, I offered $275,000 unfortunately being single this is really the limit of my budget.

But all of you are right and I will continue looking.  It still annoys me a little about what happened but I’ll know for next time.

Coop says:

01:44pm | 16/01/12

Be sure to put an expiry date upon your offer.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:56pm | 16/01/12

@Dancan

Well proves my point, the agent didn’t do anything wrong.

Most prob had other offers which were higher?

If he didn’t and wanted another $30k for the sake of it, then yes maybe. But what people have to realise is the Agent works for the Vendor, we can only go off what they tell us.

I once had a vendor who after the property being on the market for 4 weeks wanted to put the price up $30k! bit hard to explain that one to people who I was dealing with.

TChong says:

11:58am | 16/01/12

i just shudder at the whole loathesome classless crass story Aitch.
Maybe I’m getting old and even less tolerant of “material girls (and boys)living in a material world ” , as Madge put it.
All those other peoples money, he promised her the known world, all the gold she could eat….
poor girl.

John says:

11:35am | 16/01/12

It’s a plot by the US to destabilize the EU for it’s own benefit. Last thing they want is the Euro to becoming the reserve currency, therefore destroying the dollar. It’s about giving no options to china or Russia.

St. Michael says:

12:01pm | 16/01/12

John, the Euro had about as much chance of becoming the world’s reserve currency as Freddie Mercury hosting the Ku Klux Klan’s annual general meeting.  Anyone who ever tried to get the French and the Germans to do anything productive together was bound to fail.

Shane From Melbourne says:

12:15pm | 16/01/12

I would rate Great Britain as worse economic prospects than France. But considering that Standard & Poor rated junk CDOs as AAA, then anything they say should be accepted with caution….

John Smythe says:

01:44pm | 16/01/12

St. Michael, it came close a few years back when, I think it was the UAE who were going to move their oil transactions to the Euro and a basket of currencies. I can’t remember why it never went that way, I don’t think I fully understood what that really meant back then for the USD, but it would have been the beginning of the end for the USD as the reserve currency.

St. Michael says:

02:54pm | 16/01/12

@ Shane from Melbourne: “But considering that Standard & Poor rated junk CDOs as AAA, then anything they say should be accepted with caution…. “

That can be said of any of the ratings agencies now.  Particularly Moody’s—in which Warren Buffett, the oracle of Omaha, was the majority shareholder and (it stands to reason) major determinant of how it did business.  As in, the same Warren Buffett who was very dishonest about how taxation works in the United States.

Ratings agencies now are, if anything, overcompensating in the hope nobody starts hauling them off in handcuffs for their “look the other way” habits prior to the GFC.

jay-ded says:

01:04pm | 16/01/12

Luck fairsfair.  Won’t feel right without you punching in every day.

Ben C says:

01:11pm | 16/01/12

Good luck with the interview, on one hand we wish you do get the job, provided it is a move upwards, not sideways or downwards. On the other hand… *on knees* please don’t leave us, please don’t leave us.

nihonin says:

01:21pm | 16/01/12

All the best with the interview ff, hope you receive good news soon.

TimB says:

01:43pm | 16/01/12

But if you leave Fairs, who will pillow duel Elphaba? Who? Who I say?!

Seriously though, good luck. You will be missed.

Knemon says:

01:49pm | 16/01/12

Best wishes fairsfair. Though no more ‘Punching’ would be a shame :-(

fairsfair says:

02:05pm | 16/01/12

Thanks y’all. It seems interesting and with a place that would allow for development. Issue as always, is money. But I guess I will have to see if that even matters after I work out “the feel” of the place. I took this job purely because it paid more - biggest mistake of my life.

Well I am really on here so much because I have sweet FA to do in my current job. One of the many reasons I can’t cop it. Getting paid to do pretty much nothing kinda loses its shine after only a short while. It leads to the development of bad habits and a bad attitude. Something I now have and am working hard to break. 

I think it would be wrong to start a new job with a punch habit - so my plan is to go cold turkey! Though it probably wouldn’t hurt to log on in lunchbreaks…...... but then you’re not part of the conversation, what is the point.

Punch patches may be required…Nasal spray even

Elphaba says:

02:17pm | 16/01/12

@TimB, you wanna pillow-duel me?

And don’t go easy on me because I’m a girl.  I like it rough.

Good luck fairs, you will be missed, but I know how much you need it.  Give ‘em hell.  The quest to change my job continues… there is nothing out there for my little niche industry at the moment… :(

nossy says:

02:24pm | 16/01/12

@fairsfair   good luck FF!

TimB says:

02:38pm | 16/01/12

Now how can I refuse an offer like that Elph? Just say when

TCHong says:

02:40pm | 16/01/12

FF
Best Wishes
Go Girl !!!!!!!!!!!

Erick says:

02:50pm | 16/01/12

@fairsfair - You really are presenting me with a moral dilemma!

Should I wish for you to get the job, and thus lose one of the best people of the Punch? Or should I wish for you to fail, and thus preserve the worth of the site?

I am conflicted. It would take a Friday article to resolve this. :/

Aitch B says:

03:08pm | 16/01/12

Best of luck, ff.

You could always do an ‘Erick’ and start punching at 5am!!

Yuri says:

08:31pm | 16/01/12

@Erick

Yay, finally we have an actual dilemma for Friday!
All the supposed dilemmas presented so far have been anything but.

marley says:

02:28pm | 16/01/12

Well, I agree that there need to be good evacuation protocols but not all ships simply flip over and lie there.  Some sink rather quickly, and there’s no way the crew can do the checks you suggest in that kind of scenario unless they’re willing to go down with the ship.  I’m thinking of the Estonia and similar disasters.

Captain Col says:

07:32pm | 16/01/12

I was talking about this scenario, Marley.  Modern ships like this don’t often sink quickly, even with similar catastrophic underwater damage. 

It was almost perfect conditions for a totally safe evacuation.  The ship hit a rock and just about everyone knew that except (it seems) the negligent captain and crew.  They would have known (alarms would have indicated flooding immediately) but were probably trying to hide it.  So they announced an electrical failure to the passenegers saying “No problemo”. 

That was the time for the ship to sound the emergency alarm, crew to check cabins were clear and names checked at the muster stations.  All this could have happened before the ship listed too badly abaout an hour later I hear.  The port to dismbark survivors was only metres away, so lifeboats could have done dozens of trips even if some lifeboats couldn’t be launched.

On second thoughts, I think the captain deserves a more public shooting.

marley says:

07:51pm | 16/01/12

@Captain Col - I’m sure you’re right on this particular incident. There seems to have been time, they were close to shore, and if they’d been more expeditious about getting people to the lifeboat stations, perhaps they could have avoided any casualties.  I was just thinking that, in a more drastic situation, with a ship going down fast, evacuation plans would probably go down with it.

jay-ded says:

01:53pm | 16/01/12

Hey Shen.  How was your christmas break?

SimonFromLakemba says:

02:02pm | 16/01/12

What till Parliament comes back for the new year, only going to get worse.

TimB says:

02:04pm | 16/01/12

Zeta is here? Where? I don’t see him.

Welcome back Shen. Hope you had a holiday chock full of gaming goodness. (Alas, I’m awaiting a replacement for a blown 360 PSU. Go Ahead. Mock away )

nossy says:

02:49pm | 16/01/12

@Shenanigans howdy Shen - welcome to 2012 - much the same as 2011 - so far! Hows that red hot love affair going fella?

Ben C says:

02:50pm | 16/01/12

Welcome back Shen, hope you had a good break. How are things going with the physio? (I mean your shoulder as well )

@ TimB

The PSU in the PS3 is similarly fragile.

TimB says:

03:13pm | 16/01/12

@ Ben, my Wii one isn’t! Had a power surge that left it non-functioning for a bit, but apparently it was just an internal fuse or something that had been tripped. Removing it from the power supply, waiting a bit and plugging it back in served to reset everything, good as new.

It was so cool the Nintendo service guy just gave me that bit of advice instead of pinging me for a replacement. Alas the 360 PSU (And the PS3 one apparently) is not anywhere near as robust as Nintendo’s hardware.

Ben C says:

03:36pm | 16/01/12

@ TimB

Top marks for Nintendo’s customer service.

The receptionist at work managed to blow the PSU on her fiance’s PS3 - not sure how it happened. She ended up buying him a completely new PS3 for Christmas. Not sure how much a new PSU would’ve cost.

Shenanigans says:

03:40pm | 16/01/12

Kind of miss Queensland right now, Canberra is cold and miserable things with the physio are going awesome better then expected, oh and the shoulder is making a good recovery.
on the gaming front my copy of SWTOR arrived from America the other day, needless to say, it’s freaking amazing been hooked on it since I got back which is all of 3 days.

See TimB this is why pc’s are better, we rarely have those troubles and when we do, its off to the local pc part shop to purchase one for about half the price of getting a console ones fixed my xbox RROD before we left and my lady friend bought me a brand new one for christmas was shocked and stoked that she would shell out that much money so soon

oh and I got a new puppy, Sherman the Rottweiler to keep Panzer the German Shepard happy and out of mischief so 2012 has definitely been vastly better then 2011 already

TimB says:

05:00pm | 16/01/12

I dunno Shen. When I lost my PC PSU a few years back it cost me $80 for a new one. I’m paying $50 inc postage for this one .

And I’ve had more PC issues than I’ve ever had Console iissues. Although to be fair, except for my 360, al lmy consoles are Nintendo ones…They really do make a quality product.