Punch on: Open thread 15/12/2010

Reg says:

09:10am | 15/12/10

What do you mean, “when he found out?”

MacArthur’s reputation was consolidated the day he set the troops onto the world-war one soldiers for demanding their pensions. Burning and shooting. MacArthur was a rabid Republican with not a hope of election to the Presidency. The Japanese were used to his sort of domineering and it was certainly not democratic. Nor was it intended to be.

Zeta says:

09:11am | 15/12/10

That’s actually the complete opposite of what happened.

MacArthur encouraged trade union membership and increased it from 0 to 48 per cent by 1947, the year when his unilateral control over Japan ended. It was the US State Department that then recinded his pro-trade union regime to discourage unionism. MacArthur considered the Japanese trade union’s practice of annual, ritualised strikes every spring (Shunto, emphasis on the ‘o’) a reasonable trade off for wage growth. Japanese Unions were militant (and still are), but they were predictable, and respectful. In comparison, the Zaibatsu, the conglomerates of rich landholders and buisnessmen who made all the money under Imperial rule were not - and they were guilty of colluding with the Soviets. MacArthur rightly sided with the Unions, and worked toward dismantling the Zaibatsus by forcing them to sell their land to the US, who then resold it back to farmers, to create owner-occupied agriculture. So it was like bizarro world in Japan - the Trade Unions were, by standing with the rights of lower and middle income Japanese workers, helping MacArthur to enact democracy - the corporations were not.

No one ever banned unions in Japan, although the State Department post-MacArthur felt their enforced shut downs in Spring were counter productive to building their economy, the fact was, Japanese workers rarely took holidays and worked longer than 8 hours - across a 12 month period, rolling strikes in Spring were an acceptable trade off for high productivity in the rest of the year.

They actually banned corporations. The Zaibatsu were, after losing their land, forcibly reconstituted and reorganised into Keiritsu. The Zaibatsu, where were literally plutocratic pyramid schemes that funneled wealth into the hands of land owners, were then horizontally integrated into the Japanese mega-corporations we know today and tightly regulated by the US.

So you had it ass-backwards - MacArthur built unions, banned companies.

Reg says:

10:06am | 15/12/10

Yes it was interesting that MacArthur encouraged the formation of Unions as a path to greater democracy in a Japanese society that previously matched his restrictive philosophy so closely. I guess even MacArthur had seen the calamity of following the path he had so long advocated. Not that he’d ever admit he was wrong. I like to think he learned something from residing in Australian society of the war years. Poor old General Eichelberger was his foot soldier and I’ll never forgive him for making General Wainwright carry the can for his failures. Then there was the time he accused the Australians on the Owen Stanleys of not fighting. I guess he had to learn the hard way.

TheRealDave says:

10:08am | 15/12/10

Don’t start me on that over rated tossbag who cost so many Australian lives so callously.

im says:

02:14pm | 15/12/10

The real Dave .What! are you kidding!

Macca says:

08:58am | 15/12/10

Already to Godwin’s in the first post…

TheRealDave says:

10:12am | 15/12/10

We talking about the same Sweden that sat out two world wars despite pressure from the Allies, including the US, to get them on our side? Suddenly they are in bed with the US?

Fair dinkum, you twits would believe any guff on the net wouldn’t you?

MarK says:

11:33am | 15/12/10

“.He is in isolation, allowed no contatc with the outside world, almost none with his legal representatives & family”

If only it were true. I would be safe to open a paper or a website without hearing him make another plee to do “something” for “(insert catchphrase of the day here)”

“...unadulterated Persecution, & Victimisation “

I give you 7/10 for the capitalisation to ensure our eyes are drawn to the obvious “crimes” being inflicted by the US and Sweden on his person as we sit here revelling, nay frolicking, in our Freedom.

“..US terrorism..”

icuwatudidthar

“..Swedes are so beholden to the USA they endorse this terrorism & therefore they, too, are terrorists.”

You teach at a tertiary level don’t you?

“Adolf Hitler was a believer in Democracy. “

Yes yes. Nothing like a bit National Socialism to curb the excessive of those pesky Democrats and Moderate Party terrorists currently in power.

There had to be another meme you could have tossed in there surely just so we don’t miss the point. Bloody Americans and Kurds and Kuwaitis and Israelites. How dare they sit at a cafe and have a coffee while the good people on Jihad are trying to blow it up. Clearly the Kuta bombings and such like were ourt fault. How dare young Aussies go on holidays and go out. Deserved to be blown up. If we get in the way of the bombs of these perfectly rational suicide bombers we should say sorry.

Reg says:

09:00am | 15/12/10

BobbyDan, I live not far from the dreaded Pennant Hills Road in Sydney and have exactly the same ideal conditions. I am just a little put out that many of the the birds don’t seem to venture more than a 100 metres from the threshold of the bush. Instead there is the walk to the bottom of the valley in bush silence. Now if I could just track down that smoke-alarm with the flat battery that tries to get into the act each blissful morning.

NicoleG says:

08:38am | 15/12/10

Yes you are a SNAG. But let me just clear up my definition:

Seriously - Nutty - Ageing - Goose

AnthonG says:

09:56am | 15/12/10

I’ve been told that you are the spitting image of the child molester Dennis Ferguson. So how long is the punch going to let you say the same old dribble day in day out. i bet they dont print this because nosthow is a protected goose

fairsfair says:

09:57am | 15/12/10

no doubt you will be wearing your finch-smugglers and terry towling visor at Southport today nosthow. It certainly is the weather for it you old snag you.

nosthow says:

10:26am | 15/12/10

@NicoleG - Konichiwa Nicolesan !

nosthow says:

12:25pm | 15/12/10

@AnthonyG - and yet Anthony with your “great” intellect you dont ever seem to be coming up with anything ever to contribute to Punch do you fella ? Big chip on the old shoulder Anthony huh ? hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

fairsfair says:

02:44pm | 15/12/10

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/172983/chip-on-shoulder

TheRealDave says:

03:05pm | 15/12/10

Excuse me, I believe thats MY chip…..I’ll have it back thank you.

*tsk* *tsk* AnthonyG, alluding to people being child molesters in a public forum is not cricket old boy. You may allude to a persons abject gross stupidity based on the beliefs they express and statements they publish, attack their sexuality, education, parentage or lack thereof, but paedophilia is a no-no.

Behave or sit in the naughty corner for 10 minutes.

AnthonyG says:

06:13am | 16/12/10

Nosthow I apologize wholeheartedly for my last rant. I shouldn’t have put the words child molester in it i was only having a go jokingly about your looks and did a bad job of it

Davida says:

10:46am | 15/12/10

Is reality not, though, individual perception anyway?

Tedd says:

11:05am | 15/12/10

Reality is a collective agreement about the material world and processes in it, including consistent thought.

Macon Paine says:

12:38pm | 15/12/10

There is a saying, cant remember who said it that goes like this “You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own reality”. I think that hits the nail on the head.

stephen says:

09:33am | 15/12/10

‘man the unit ‘?
Are you in a lighthouse ?

fairsfair says:

09:38am | 15/12/10

yes stephen - I am solely responsible for the shaddow puppets this year.

Reg says:

09:46am | 15/12/10

The “unit” is cryptic. Do tell.

My goal is to stay off salt, sugar, savory and alcohol which is quite a burden considering the temptations. I had considered flying off to sit on the top of some remote mountain in Tasmania to further my resolve, but this has been frustrated by having to stay and feed the cat for the two weeks his mum is away in Perth. A cat home was not acceptable to his mum and asking what was going to happen once I’m “gone” was dismissed by explaining that the cat would go about the same time. Charming!

Zeta says:

10:19am | 15/12/10

I go and let my family know I’m still alive and give age inappropriate gifts to their children on Christmas Day, but it’s Boxing Day I’m most excited about, when I host my annual BOXING DAY MASSACRE.

The BOXING DAY MASSACRE is a film festival where I show a selection of the most horrific, bizarre and macarbe films, television shows, and for the last couple of years YouTube videos I’ve found during the last twelve months while serving my friends obscure liquor.

This year we’ll be watching the 2010 remake of I Spit On Your Grave, the first ever Australian DVD release of Salo, or 100 Days Of Sodom, the first episode of The Walking Dead, a double feature of Kenneth Anger’s Lucifer Rising back-to-back with Kanye West’s Runaway’s feature film (the similarities are frightening and bizarre), the complete 27 episode You Tube alternative-reality-game/short film/horror experiment MARBLE HORNETS, and once the sun’s gone down and we’re good and slaughtered, a mix-tape of the weirdest ‘Creepypasta’ from the last 12 months of the internet, including what purports to be a lost 1930s Mickey Mouse clip that drives the viewer mad, the lost episode of Spongebob Squarepants where the squid commits suicide, the footage released on YouTube this year claiming to be an episode of the Simpsons where Bart dies, the three episodes of Family Guy from season 9 rumoured to be produced under the influence of a demon, and a recorded playthrough of a bootleged copy of Zelda: Ocanaria of Time that’s claimed to be haunted.

If any one’s still sane after that we’re going to watch Charlie Brown’s Christmas with commentary by me about how Charlie Brown is really an abused child in foster care, and all the bad things that happen to him are real, while all the positive resolutions are actually his imagination.

It’s the social event of the year.

Reg says:

10:48am | 15/12/10

A “unit” used to be a meat pie.

Davida says:

10:49am | 15/12/10

“Man the unit” sounds like an interior design concept….....glad your new job feels “right”.

TheRealDave says:

11:43am | 15/12/10

‘Man the Unit’.....you aren’t pushing a button every 108 minutes in and underground bunker are you?

nosthow says:

12:29pm | 15/12/10

@fairsfair - well done fella and hope all goes well ! Its Christmas time up here on the Gold Coast all year round fairsfair - good place to visit and paradise to live in. Happy Christmas to you fella !

fairsfair says:

12:38pm | 15/12/10

Man the unit, the mind boggles really

Holy moly Zeta. WTF is that? You certainly invest some effort in building your library. Perhaps your reader’s soapbox next year will be a full review of the 2010 Annual Boxing Day Massacre? I really hope the Punch can somehow get Margaret and David involved.

Reg, I am assuming mum is your child. Kids love to use their parents. We know it is wrong, but we still do it. I currently have eternal leverage status. My parents went away for my birthday this year and made me babysit their dog… they didn’t even explore the concept of the early/late birthday celebration. I was shocked. They have just told me that they are doing it to me again next year. I will remember this for many years to come and pull it out anytime I am asked to do anything that one of my siblings could easiliy do. I suggest you turn the tables at some point…. though with the deprivation you have ahead of you the cat may be eaten on or around 27/12/2010. Problem solved.

Our boxing day consisted of ample food and drink plus an adapted form of volleyball in the pool called “throwsies”. It is generally interwoven with the multiple lighting induced pool evacuations during the standard afternoon storm and claims of sports induced asthma. It is quite the extreme sport. This year I am calling my team the Marble Hornets.

Super D says:

01:13pm | 15/12/10

Zeta - could you somehow post your Charlie Brown redub on youtube?

TimB says:

01:35pm | 15/12/10

@ Zeta

I read that haunted Zelda cartridge thing the other month. Truly creepy.

(Incidently it was Majora’s Mask, not Ocarina of time )

TimB says:

09:27am | 15/12/10

Not a bad idea. I’ve used maybe half a dozen or so sick days in 8 years of employment by my company. I’ve got the better part of 3 months accrued now.

Would be nice to see all that get paid out.

Reg says:

09:28am | 15/12/10

Diligent workers always leave the employer a bonus in the current scheme. I left a year of sick leave to my employer when I retired. That’s a lot of money. Paid Parental Leave may be unpredictable and more necessary because of the urgency of the situation. Suddenly finding that your child has some dreadful disease makes the ppl very important in my opinion. Thank God for Medicare in such situations.

AFR says:

09:36am | 15/12/10

People going to work sick - GREAT! I love winter time when fellow co-workers come in looking like death warmed up coughing and spluttering everywhere.

Macca says:

09:56am | 15/12/10

@Shane,

Whilst an admirable idea, the cost of such a scheme would be enormous.

Firstly, you accrue sick leave at the rate at which you are currently earning, but it is paid at the rate of pay on the date you take it. This results in a large financial overhead that companies must maintain and increases with each successive salary increase / wage rise.

Now, if the government is responsible for that cost, that would be wonderful, but financial I just can’t see that happening.

And here’s why. Lets, for ease, say the average wage is $50K, the hourly rate being $25ish an hour. The average person works for 40 years of their life, accruing the minimum 10 days, 76 hours, a year (ignoring that some occupations get greater than this). There are 5 million working Australians (the actual figure would be higher, but I’m trying to round up the maths) which means that the Government has to cover 40 x $25 x 76 x 5,000,000 = $380,000,000,000.

And I think those numbers are being a bit on the soft side. Happy to acknowledge that people will take sick leave and that that figure will go down, but I have been pretty conservative with my numbers.

No Government is ever going to enact a policy that requires it to maintain a bucket of money worth several hundred billion dollars to cover the sick leave of those who are currently contributing to the economy.

Personal / Sick Leave is to be taken when you are sick, or caring for someone who is sick. It should be accrued over a long period of time so if something unfortunate should happen to you (cancer, for example) you have accrued enough sick leave to ensure you have an income for the period you are unable to attend work.

Financially, there may be many other alternatives that could be more beneficial than Paid Parental leave, but I don’t consider paying out sick leave to be a viable one. Especially when Long Service and Annual Leave are already paid out upon Termination / retirement

fairsfair says:

11:12am | 15/12/10

@Macca - ignorant I am because I have never thought about the financial overhead that you mention. That is a really interesting point and for that reason I don’t think sick leave should be accrued in any industry. I don’t agree with Shane. You should get your standard 12/14 per year, if you don’t use them, you lose them. In the event a worker is diagnosed with a serious illness or they genuinely need to take extended periods of time the government should perhaps kick in with a scheme here through the existing pension/carers allowance set up. It helps the worker and it helps the employer. This however, would not increase productivity because people view the don’t use it you lose it thing as I’ll just have a sickie to get it. Perhaps the onus should then be on the employer to put in place incentives for those people who don’t use all their sick pay. Or maybe the onus should be on society to now be such *ssholes. The former would then be seen as discriminating against those who were genuinely sick for the full limit. Face it, we are screwed either way. I reckon people just need to realise that life was not meant to be easy, nothing comes for free and bad things happen to good people. Life is about dealing with problems and learnign from them, not fighting for entitlement at these extreme levels. There would have been a time when sick pay wasn’t even paid. People would have faught and stuggled to have this included as a basic right and thankfully so. How funny it is that we so quickly forget how these things were implemented “in the event of [X]” yet we all of a sudden view it as a god given right to have those days even when we are fighting fit and healthy. Just like all of a sudden being financially supported by society when you stop work to have a baby is now a “life or death” right that the includion of sick pay would have once been seen. God we are spoilt and pick the wrong things to be so passionate about.

Jim says:

12:30pm | 15/12/10

Most businesses today either have a use-it-or-lose-it policy when it comes to sick leave…it won’t accrue. Or they have gone to unlimited sick days, again - can’t be accrued.
Some employers also will grant special leave in cases where an accident or sudden illness occurs.
Whatever system is in place though, income protection insurance is very cheap and very worthwhile…maybe employers should start looking at that if it ever becomes free of FBT.

Macca says:

12:59pm | 15/12/10

@Jim, we have income protection insurance which we pay for covering our Award employees. Wonderful idea, but hopeless in practice as we have limited rights in ensuring employees actually come back to work. Once they are off, they just need continued doctor’s certificates indicating they are unfit to return to work due to their shingles or whatever and their income is guaranteed.

Plus, whilst they are off on Income Protection, they are not using any of their sick leave entitlements. The entitlements created to ensure they are paid whilst off work due to illness.

Most Award / Enteprise Agreement covered employees still accrue sick leave, only salaried professionals are likely to not accrue sick leave / have unlimited access.

Shane From Melbourne says:

02:08pm | 15/12/10

@ Macca-it doesn’t have to be a full payout of sick leave accrued, even a half payout of unused sick leave would reward workers for not chucking fake sickies. Also it would be a co payment between government and employers so the cost to the tax payer would be reduced. At present absenteeism is estimated to cost employers 30 Billion dollars a year. But a “use them or lose them” policy is just encouraging people to fake a sickie….(especially on a long weekend)

Reg says:

10:24am | 15/12/10

It’s one of those things like Liberal meaning Republican. An attempt to confuse the peasants. I bet Oprah thinks our Liberals are the same as her Democrats. How wrong she would be.

Users of “left wing” in such a context, have a quandary. Centre means in neutral, standing still. “Right wing” means in alignment with the German dictator, so it follows that anyone who disagrees with them is a Communist. Unfortunately to resort to using the “left-wing” connotation automatically attracts the historical mantle of Nazism. Unavoidable really.

MarK says:

11:39am | 15/12/10

About the same time as “right wing” shifted its meaning to “something with which I disagree, but can’t explain why”?

fairsfair says:

12:18pm | 15/12/10

Nah MarK - I reckon “right wing” shifted to mean “something which is logical and realistic, which must be attacked at a preschool level by its opponents without reference to legitimate fact or history”.

If they do not desperately cling to the shreds that once was the great Australian “left” the sky will fall in. Crap, I forgot to somehow weive in the NBN and asylum seekers into that. You didn’t mention them either MarK you technologically illiterate racist!

I hope I made you proud Mark, did I sound like them?

Jim says:

12:25pm | 15/12/10

Same as there being the assumption that if you are not blindly in love with the current government then you must be a conservative, bible bashing, upper-class corporate citizen…who happens to have a secret fetish for Speedos.

TheRealDave says:

03:09pm | 15/12/10

Its common knowledge that ‘Right Wing’ has shifted to the ‘I’m alright jack and screw the rest of the population, until it affects me personally or stops me buying plasma screens for my bathroom and gold plated fanbelts for my latest imported overpriced piece of crap then lets roll on with the status quo’

or to that effect.

nice try says:

03:22pm | 15/12/10

As if - politically correct and do-gooder are bad things to be.
nice try right wingers.

Macca says:

11:12am | 15/12/10

500MB is about a fifth of a WoW Patch..

My brothers and I have been known to go through 20GB during a month of gaming for the brief period in 2008 when we were all on uni holidays together.

Zeta says:

11:12am | 15/12/10

If you find you’re not using your download limit, why not donate it? You can donate your bandwidth to pro-democracy campaigners in China, Iran and Burma via a Tor bridge, which is a secure tunneling protocol for anonymous internet use. You establish a virtual private network, and people in countries whose internet is censored use your home PC network as a proxy server to access the same online content we can. During the Iran democracy protests in 2009, I donated about 50gb via Tor so people could access Twitter, Facebook, and Google after the Government blocked it.

Visit the Electronic Frontiers Foundation for more info on how to donate your bandwidth here: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/help-protesters-iran-run-tor-relays-bridges

You don’t lose anything except for gigabytes you weren’t going to use anyway that Telstra was just going to keep, and people in countries without internet freedom gain access to content their Governments would otherwise prohibit.

TheRealDave says:

11:41am | 15/12/10

500GB not MB Macca.

And if you can’t find a use for 500Gb you aren’t using the net properly ... that is so much porn being under appreciated!

Oh and, quick tip, peer to peer (torrents) is for nubs. Get onto premium USENET and be free of those pesky clowns from the Motion Picture and Recording Industry and their bollocky ‘infringement notices’.

I have 400gb at home and another 600gb at work to get through per month!

Reid Wright says:

11:51am | 15/12/10

Macca - 500GB
Zeta - What is to stop the beneficiary of my unused quota downloading and further causing pain to paw widdle Columbia Pictures ? Would I then be held responsible for this persons actions ?

Zeta says:

01:16pm | 15/12/10

@ Reid Wright - Well, nothing I guess. But when you devote your life to the quixotic task of bringing democracy to the most undemocratic corners of the globe I reckon downlading Big Mamma 2: Mamma Rising is probably not going to be high on your to-do list.

Just out of curiosity, where the hell were you downloading something where Columbia Pictures were able to get your email address? I don’t download movies, I can’t tolerate anything less than perfect high definition so I buy Blu-Ray from overseas mostly, but I do download a lot of television before it airs locally and my ISP has never notified me of any breach of copyright.

John Smythe says:

01:39pm | 15/12/10

How is the fencing wire internet technology back home anyway?

In Japan I have FTTH with NO limitations to DL limits up or down.

I luvs my innernets….tho LOTRO is for me…WoW got too much like EQ with endless grinding…..

Might get back to USENET one day…but happy with my current situation

MarK says:

04:02pm | 15/12/10

Zeta - he would have been using torrents. The .torrent file has a specific marker. When the information is distributed in the swarm the various clients find the packets to download - these are called leechers - (and to upload to the swarm) - these are called peers - by the hash marker.

As the hash marker is unique the studios can sniff the packets back to various IP addresses. If you downloded a torrent with #67578965 it was Waterworld and can only be Waterworld. There is no doubt about it. So the studios can then

1. Laugh like mad that someone was stupid enough to actually download that turkey
2. Attempt to recover the cost of making it buy suing everyone they can identify in the swarm.

Once they know your IP they can request the ISP to issue you with a cease and desist.

Other forms of downloading do not rely on this and so are invisible.

It is why it is ridiculous to even attempt to stop pedos from distributing stuff over the net by a filter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_(protocol)

It is a very handy way to distribute files to a large number of people as it does not rely on direct sources. For example the WoW patches you get are distributed by Torrents. You download them (leech) from a swarm comprised of all WoW users and help to upload data back to the swarm (being a peer to the swarm). The torrent client is inbuilt into your WoW program files.

One file needs an original seed but in a short timeframe will become self propagating and the original seeder can leave the swarm. As long as there is enough peers in the swarm with 100% of the file - even if none of them have all the file themselves - a full copy will be distributed to all of them.

Search up the iiNet court case that revolved around this. Very interesting.

Jim says:

12:21pm | 15/12/10

It will only turn into another bitchfest between the old boys from NSW and QLD Macca. I had to laugh at Meninga coming out the other day and saying the Souths-Inglis deal was ‘underhanded’...underhanded is how they somehow turned Inglis and Falou into Queenslanders!

In saying that…I won’t care how many QLD’ers are on the commission…if they get rid of Ch9 and Gus Gould I’ll get a Wally Lewis tattoo to celebrate.

TimB says:

01:52pm | 15/12/10

The sad thing is the rabid Left will still attempt to claim the moral high ground by claiming that their viewpoint is more “compassionate”, and that everyone who disagrees with them must be an ignorant xenephobic redneck.

But this is the reality of what the Left condones. People dying and suffering whilst they preen around claiming their moral superiority over everyone else. It’s sickening.

fairsfair says:

02:13pm | 15/12/10

You’re right Tim, it is sickening. Look at what has happened today.  I just read news.com and there is a statement that “about half drowned”. So so sad. This demonstrates why we have to “stop the boats”. Slogans and points of attack aside, in the most basic language, the only way to avoid the deaths is to stop the vessels that carry the people. I feel so sorry for them all, and hope Julia has something to say about this other than her usual political, emotive and completely ineffective drivel. RIP lost lives. I completely and totally agree with Richard’s post below.

NicoleG says:

02:17pm | 15/12/10

It’s just so horrible. I was just watching it live on Sky, bodies floating in the water, people scrambling up rocks to try and reach safety, it’s a horrible thing to see. There were children on that boat. I feel really sick. So far, there are only 41 survivors. It’s an absolute tragedy.

fairsfair says:

02:57pm | 15/12/10

“Refugee advocate Pamela Curr has questioned why the boat was allowed to arrive at Christmas Island unescorted in heavy seas. “They knew, Search and Rescue had intelligence from Indonesia-they knew this boat was coming,” she told The Australian.”

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/asylum-seeker-boat-crashes-into-cliffs/story-e6frfkvr-1225971475967#ixzz189XnNDu4

WTF? I am gobsmacked by what this woman says. How can this be accepted as a valid point of view when it is just so very unreasonable. The act of entering Australian waters without permission is generally a no no. Speeding is also generally a no no. Should we now say that it is the police’s fault that people die in road accidents because they should have been there with a radar and stopped the at fault driver? WTF?

Confusing policy says:

03:20pm | 15/12/10

I thought this was the preferred option for the coalition.
You can die at home by the hands of terrorists, or you can die in the water trying to seek asylum.
Am I wrong?

MarK says:

06:12am | 16/12/10

Yep you are totally wrong confusing.

Feel free to educate yourself and come back with the truth. Don’t hurry though. Wouldn’t want you to strain a muscle.

Dave-o says:

03:08pm | 15/12/10

Nope, they’d just die in Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and Pakistan where its not our problem. But thanks for playing.

James1 says:

03:13pm | 15/12/10

Counterfactual.

Please do not cheapen what has happened by using it for partisan gain.  This is a tragedy, and hopefully above partisan politics.

Besides which, there are enough reasons to get stuck into the government without cheapening the deaths of desperate people.

Richard says:

09:47pm | 15/12/10

Bullshit you two, they died as a direct result of a Labor policy. I demand accountability, and I don’t care about scoring partisan political points. This wasn’t a natural disaster, some freak event that was unavoidable. Don’t try and hide Gillard’s incompetence under a sanctimonious pledge to “not score partisan points”, because I’m furious that yet more lives have been lost and no one seems to care about who caused it.