Punch on: Open thread 13/02/2012

jay-ded says:

08:21am | 13/02/12

I think you need your morning coffee Neslihan.

nossy says:

09:01am | 13/02/12

@NESLIHAN   my dearest NESLIHAN park your peepers on my attached Gold Coast promo ad - we’ve got it all NESLIHAN - sun, surf, sex!  And culture - yes we have some of that too - just where I am not sure but its here NESLIHAN. Strip down to you bikini and spend a fun filled day with nossy NESLIHAN!  P.S. enough of the sucking up to the Editors too girlie!  hahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEnCyzko-sI

nossy says:

09:04am | 13/02/12

@NESLIHAN - watch it and weep NESLIHAN.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEnCyzko-sI

patsy says:

09:23am | 13/02/12

@neslihan-you should really get out more.

john says:

10:56am | 13/02/12

@NESLIHAN ” This does not happen to be one the greatest promotional information about the very reasons Americans should visit Australia & get to know the Aussie way and the Land down under. “

The PUNCH was spot on because their isn’t anything else uniquely Australian to come see here any more. Why you might ask?

Well from my point of view around the time of crocodile dundee circa ~1986 Australia was fresh and uniquely Australian and lightly peppered with multiculturalism that was in a strange way also uniquely Australian in flavour. Australian cities were all uniquely different from one another and not overly developed to look like maccas chains. The east coast were still cities and towns that were separated and felt like that were some distances apart. Not linked up as they are now along many parts of the eastern seaboard. 4WD’s were few and far between, and those used for purpose were actually dirty with the colour of mud to show which part of the country they came from. 
Today a road-stop with a maccas, shell or BP is the same as any other road anywhere in the world. Freeways & major expressways once prohibited from being commercialised in Australia are dotted with delusional cheap consumer whore giant junkie corporate shopping sites like Bunnings,maccas, HJ’s, & DFO’s & now Costco.

It doesn’t feel like that your in Australia in most CBD’s, perhaps that’s another reason not to come here, unlike the 80’s.

Most of Australia has been deforested stripped bare or mined, the world heritage sites are still being logged and the great barrier reef is being destroyed by tankers running aground, fertiliser run-off and cyclones. Uluru cannot be climbed without offending the locals, and many coastal areas around cities are often polluted, especially after rain periods and many times not safe to swim.

Australians by now should have won the title of the fastest people on the planet, surely by now we eat those yanks too - in one gulp, one would have to ask why would fat Americans come to see fat Australians?

At least we know how to make a gr8 coffee but I doubt that will be enough to bring tourists here, I doubt they will ever come back here with they way town planning and development has made us look so ugly.

Furthermore and I think this the the most damaging is that Australia is being portrayed as being bought up & used by the world as a pit to plunder and fragile land abused to feed the worlds masses, and strip what’s left of the whales for meat and plunder the sea for sushi etc. 

Then one would think there is nothing to see here in OZ..

Wynston Cruso says:

02:03pm | 13/02/12

I find it cute that you take the time to type out your brainsplosions.

MikeS says:

11:52am | 13/02/12

You’ve never been to NYC, have you.

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:26pm | 13/02/12

I think he means Manhattan which most people assume as being NYC, not the Bronx.

MikeS says:

01:06pm | 13/02/12

In that case, I might point you towards the Bowery, The East Village and Hells Kitchen (or Clinton as the real estate mob calls it now).

I’ve been in many bars in all these areas where they like drinking and fighting and glassing just as much as we do.

And then there is St Patricks Day. If you ever wanted to see alcoholic over-indulgence on a mind boggling scale, spend SPD in Mid-Town Manhattan.

SimonFromLakemba says:

02:49pm | 13/02/12

SPD, I thought Puerto Rican Day Parade was the worst one there for problems?

Retired Soldier says:

07:31am | 13/02/12

During my many years in the US i never had a decent coffee other than straight black. All the frothy milk varieties were beyond them but now that they may have perfected a Flat White, give it a short time and they will top it up with Vanilla, Caramel or some other sweet and sickly mixture. I love the yanks but not their coffee. Very likely the only thing they are not good at.

acotrel says:

07:58am | 13/02/12

It’s like the sugar in Macca’s buns.  It’s there to pay homage to the stuffed taste buds of spoilt little brats ! The one thing I’ll always remember about being in the US, is the bloody horrible food and the waste !

SimpleSimon says:

10:58am | 13/02/12

Oh US coffee is terrible! It’s hard enough finding a place that actually does espresso coffee instead of that horrible stuff from the pot, but even the real coffee is often rubbish.

Knemon says:

07:53am | 13/02/12

Yawn

SimonFromLakemba says:

08:44am | 13/02/12

I’m with Knemon.

Tim says:

08:45am | 13/02/12

And Tony Abbott knew who it was all along.

Why was he silent on this issue, who did he tell?

OR

We could just go with what Tim Blair said in the article you linked to:

“I repeat I see no prob with the question or for that matter with Abbott’s answer. Timely and relevant ”

Erick says:

09:34am | 13/02/12

@Tim - That wasn’t said by Tim Blair. It was said by ABC journo Jonathan Holmes.

Several important questions remain unanswered.

Our Labor supporting commenters are going out of their way to talk about how boring and insignificant this is - but if it really was so trivial, they wouldn’t reply at all.

Gregg says:

09:36am | 13/02/12

Maybe just co-incidence but there is a Canberra based ABC journo also with initials AC, but then there’s also quite a few of them.

Tim says:

10:26am | 13/02/12

Sorry Erick,
my mistake.
But it was still the exact right sentiment.

Erick the only people who think this is an issue are the fringe conservatives with a good dose of conspiracy nuts thrown in.

A journalist asked a relevant and pertinent question.

Even if by some miracle it was found that the question came from the prime minister’s office, it still wouldn’t be an issue. The question was completely relevant on an important day.

TimB says:

10:53am | 13/02/12

“Even if by some miracle it was found that the question came from the prime minister’s office, it still wouldn’t be an issue. “

If you combine it with the PM’s staff deliberately verballing Abbott, pointing Aboriginal activists at him and effectively stirring up a racial protest, then yes it most definetley would be an issue Tim.

In the minds of those whose raction is ‘yawn’, it seems that the concept of ‘Innocent until proven guilty’ has been perverted to ‘presume innocence but don’t investigate just in case they ARE guilty’.

I’m not saying that there was a nasty anti-Abbott conspiracy here. And I’m not saying that there isn’t. But right minded people should admit that the possibility exists and support a full investigation to clear the issue up one way or another. The whole ‘move along nothing to see here’ attitude is silly.

Erick says:

11:11am | 13/02/12

@Tim - The question would have been quite innocuous, were it not for the fact that the Prime Minister’s office misrepresented the answer in order to spark a racial incident.

Since that was the outcome, we need to ask who was involved in planning it. We already have confessions from two people. Were any more staff involved?

It would seem simple enough for the Canberra journo involved to step forward, yet there is an extreme reluctance to do so. And it was strangely difficult just to get the name of the Sydney one.

Why are these details so hard to get, if it’s all innocuous and innocent?

Tim says:

11:37am | 13/02/12

TimB,
so you would support investigating every question a journalist asks that could be considered controversial to find out where the question came from and why it wasn’t asked to every politician of the day?

Right minded people who are not rusted on supporters of either party would see that a journalist asked a relevant question, which was given a thoughtful and balanced response by Tony Abbott. That’s it.

The PM’s staff who stirred up the activists, have quit and embarrassed the PM.

The activists acted disgracefully.

What do you need an investigation for?

James1 says:

11:57am | 13/02/12

This whole line of reasoning makes me uncomfortable.  Are you saying that journalists should be practicing self-censorship and not ask topical and relevant questions lest someone get upset about the answers given? 

Seriously guys, this question gets asked of many senior political leaders every Australia Day.  There is absolutely nothing remarkable about either the question or the answer.  Indeed, the only remarkable thing is that anyone cares this time.  I personally have seen this question asked on several occasions with my own eyes.  The only difference here is that Mr Abbott actually gave a good answer that was well thought out, rather than the usual waffle that is given in response.

TimB says:

12:08pm | 13/02/12

“TimB,
so you would support investigating every question a journalist asks that could be considered controversial to find out where the question came from and why it wasn’t asked to every politician of the day?”

A question asked in isolation does not need to be investigated of course. But this was not isolated. The events that took place as a direct result of that question convey the potential for a deeper agenda to be at play.

“Right minded people who are not rusted on supporters of either party would see that a journalist asked a relevant question, which was given a thoughtful and balanced response by Tony Abbott. That’s it.”

Except for the fact that directly after that we had a Prime Ministerial staffer deliberately going out of his way to stir up trouble. Why is it so out of the realms of possibility that there is a link between the two?

“The PM’s staff who stirred up the activists, have quit and embarrassed the PM.

The activists acted disgracefully.

What do you need an investigation for? “

To fully determine the truth behind this matter. Why are you taking the ALP’s explanation at face value? Would it not be in their best interests to sell the staffer in question down the river?

Again- I’m not saying that there IS a conspiracy here. What I am saying is that, on the face of the evidence to hand, that the possibility exists, and should be investigate to determine the truth one way or the other. To simply handwave this is irresponsible.

Erick says:

12:09pm | 13/02/12

@James1 - No, I’m saying that given the involvement of the PM’s office in the events of that day, it is reasonable to ask whether anyone associated with the ALP prompted that journalist to ask that question.

If the PM’s staff were involved, it would be interesting to know which ones - because if it wasn’t Tony Hodges, it means he wasn’t acting alone.

Why is this information being kept from us? There is a legitimate public interest in the answers, but the ABC is stonewalling.

TimB says:

12:12pm | 13/02/12

@ James, as I said to Tim, the question itself was innocent and under normal circumstances would not raise eyebrows. We can all agree on that. But it is the later events of the day that potentially cast the question in a new light.

Context is everything.

Erick says:

12:27pm | 13/02/12

Oh look, the story has changed again.

We now have three of the major players telling stories that contradict each other.

And two involved people who refuse to say anything at all.

James1 says:

12:45pm | 13/02/12

I think you are looking too hard at this, Erick and TimB.  No one has ever asked questions about who prompted any other journalist to ask the exact same question, either this Australia Day or any other.  Like I said, the only remarkable thing here was Mr Abbott’s honesty in answering - it was his answer that cast this question in a different light.  Every other time this question gets asked, you get some waffly rubbish about how important the tent embassy is.  Tony Abbott gave a thoughtful answer, and a bunch of idiots did what they did with it.  This is nothing to do with the journalist.  And further, is it really surprising that one of the PM’s media advisors spends most of his time listening to the things the PM’s main rival says to the media?  You are starting with a conclusion - that someone at the ABC is involved in a conspiracy with the PM’s office to make Abbott look bad - and working backwards, ignoring evidence (like the fact that this is a routine question to ask political leaders on Australia Day) in the process. 

As such, if the journalist in question were to say “no one put me up to this - I asked the Sydney bureau to ask a topical question as my job description requires of me”, would you be satisfied?  Or would that consitute further evidence for this anti-Abbott conspiracy?

TimB says:

01:09pm | 13/02/12

“Like I said, the only remarkable thing here was Mr Abbott’s honesty in answering”

But it isn’t the only remarkable thing about the question. You keep saying that this question has been asked many times before of many politicians. Fine. But upon answering, did anything like the events that unfolded ever happen?

“And further, is it really surprising that one of the PM’s media advisors spends most of his time listening to the things the PM’s main rival says to the media?”

Actually yes. I would think that he would be paying more attention to Gillard’s media issues, not Tony Abbott’s. For him to react that fast and with that kind of intent suggests foreknowledge.

Again I admit this is all circumstantial. But a truly objective viewpoint would have to conceed that there is a strong possibility that something more sinister could be going on. It’s worth an investigation at least, surely.

And no James a declaration of total innocence from the parties involved would not be enough. If that was enough for the courts, our jails would be empty.

Tim says:

01:34pm | 13/02/12

TimB,
“Actually yes. I would think that he would be paying more attention to Gillard’s media issues, not Tony Abbott’s. For him to react that fast and with that kind of intent suggests foreknowledge.”

No, not even in the slightest does it suggest that. It suggests that he was doing his job at the time. A large part of which is listening to the opposition leader and trying to make mileage from what he says.

“But a truly objective viewpoint would have to conceed that there is a strong possibility that something more sinister could be going on”

No, a truly objective viewpoint would chalk it up this event up to stupidity on behalf of Tony Hodges, Kim Sattler and the Greens activist who started revving up the protesters as well as the idiot protesters themselves. Only a conspiracy nut or a partisan would think it went further with extremely slim evidence.

Otherwise you’re suggesting that the reporter who you think might have been in contact with the PM’s office knew that Tony Abbott was going to answer the question in the way he did. And you’re not suggesting that are you?

As James1 says, the question is fairly common and always gets asked near Australia day. How would Hodges know that this time Abbott would actually give a detailed answer instead of the usual inane response that the question usually receives.?

James1 says:

01:41pm | 13/02/12

“But upon answering, did anything like the events that unfolded ever happen?”

No, because that question has never actually received a good answer worth noting before.  Mr Abbott’s is the only candid opinion I have ever seen offered by a senior politician.  This is actually evidence against the idea of a sinister conspiracy - in that no one could have predicted that Mr Abbott would depart from the scripted platitudes offered to the tent embassy, thus ruling out foreknowledge on the part of Ms Gillard’s office of the effect the question would have.

“But a truly objective viewpoint would have to conceed that there is a strong possibility that something more sinister could be going on.”

Occam’s Razor makes me lean the other way.  There are just too many “ifs” for this line of argument to hold any weight.  The whole idea of a conspiracy to ask Tony Abbott a question, with the idea that they would then leak his whereabouts along with a paraphrasing of an answer (which they knew beforehand he would give), in the knowledge that this would make a group of protesters into an angry and potentially violent mob, is just too fantastic for me.  Especially when you put it up against the alternative: that the Canberra bureau asked the Sydney bureau (where Mr Abbott was at the time) to ask a question about a topical subject to meet some deadline, which was then heard by Ms Gillard’s advisor, who leaked it to a union friend who he then worked with to get the tent embassy protesters all worked up in an effort to embarrass Mr Abbott.  When faced with a choice between conspiracy and stuff up, I go with stuff up every time.  After all, this government can’t seem to manage the simplest policy successfully, let alone a complex operation like the one you propose.

And if statements by those involved won’t satify you Tim, there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.  That is the only other evidence that exists in this case.

Also, Ms Gillard has more than one media advisor.  You are seriously underestimating a politician’s desire to control their message if you believe they do not have staff devoted to listening to what their rivals say in the media.

gobsmack says:

02:33pm | 13/02/12

@TimB
“A question asked in isolation does not need to be investigated of course. But this was not isolated. The events that took place as a direct result of that question convey the potential for a deeper agenda to be at play.”
By that logic, Mr Abbott must have been in on the conspiracy.  If he hadn’t answered the question the whole plan would have fallen apart.
Alternatively, you are suggesting that Mr Abbott’s responses are entirely predictable.

TimB says:

02:34pm | 13/02/12

Guys, believe it or not I agree with you. Stupidity all around is the simplest and most likely explanation. But that doesn’t mean that the so-called ‘conspiracy theory’ is impossible and should be dismissed out of hand as people seem to be suggesting.

Those asking ‘how could they have known Abbott’s response?”- They didn’t need to know. They deliberately misquoted him anyway. It didn’t matter what he said, they could have done this. The protestors didn’t bother to check after all.

And James, surely there’s other things an investigation can check on besides a simple ‘did you do it’ question to the people involved.)

With that logic being employed here, the government would be able to get away with all kinds of crap, purely on the basis that it’d be ‘too insane to be true’. Remember when the first hints of staffer involvement began to filter through, *that* was just a wacky LNP conspiracy as well- Until it was found to be true.

It’s unlikely that an investigation would find anything, but in the interests of transparency, I believe one should be undertaken.

Mouse says:

05:46pm | 13/02/12

Oh Tim….... the PM wasn’t embarrassed! lol :o)

jay-ded says:

08:18am | 13/02/12

Turn tele onto the cricket.  Mute it.  Play music.  That way, you get to watch the cricket and enjoy music without the boring commentary.

TChong says:

08:39am | 13/02/12

kirsty
Channel 9 gave Kate Fitzpatrick a go, many years ago.
It didnt quite work.

iansand says:

08:42am | 13/02/12

THey have tried women commentators occasionally.  Kate Fitzpatrick did a few games a long while ago, and I have heard a couple of members of our women’s team occasionally.  They fail, not because they do not know the game but because they make a large proportion of male watchers uncomfortable.

Yawn says:

09:18am | 13/02/12

Wake up
Cricket is the most boring game ever invented and they find commentators that suit it.

Cricket is only ever good if YOU are actually bowling batting or in the act of fielding.
Other than that, it is best viewed in the results section of the sports section.

Gregg says:

10:56am | 13/02/12

@ Kirsty
As if slats doing the moves wasn’t enough we then had him and Nicko doing the dicko thrusting.
Tubs was trying hard not to involve himself and probably would have relished being elsewhere.

Maybe for foxy business, we’d have to have a foxy lady prepared to be out there a bit and dicuss not just hair but how much protection a box can offer or which bowler steaming in has the best backside.

marley says:

08:46am | 13/02/12

Bite your tongue!  Good coffee is the nectar of the gods.  Providing you don’t mess it up with sugar.

jay-ded says:

10:35am | 13/02/12

Good coffee is the nectar of the gods….  Hades maybe? 

AdamC says:

10:35am | 13/02/12

Jay-ded, tea is like love, sometimes it just aint enough.

I like a good coffee. It is actually not too easy to get one’s hands on a decent cup of it in Melbourne’s CBD, though, much hype to the contrary notwithstanding. Also, what is with all these ultra-savoury Cenral American blends (or single origins or whatever) doing the rounds of Melbourne’s trendier coffee houses? I think they are quite yucky myself.

marley says:

08:59am | 13/02/12

I think you misunderstand what “habeas corpus” is about.  It’s a protection against unlawful detention:  it gives the person detained the right to appear before a court and to have the state justify its reasons for detaining him.  It therefore.prevents the state from detaining someone indefinitely without being required to provide reasons for that detention.

In the cases at hand, the journalists aren’t being detained.  They’ve been bailed, and told to reappear before a court in May.  At that point, they will have the opportunity to clear themselves or face conviction.  The police have until then to work on the cases against them.  That’s not an abuse of process, so far as I can see.

Neil Wallis says:

09:23am | 13/02/12

This tidal wave of wrongdoing that is enveloping News International will soon be arriving on our shores.
Murdoch leaving a legacy of shame.

nossy says:

09:08am | 13/02/12

@fairsfair - the BIG day fairsfair - the day you become Gina Rhieharts PA on a Mega salary and with World travel thrown in! whoa whoa!

TheRealDave says:

09:20am | 13/02/12

Oh god…did you see that ‘Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead’ doco last week as well??

Because of that stupid documentary my missus is going out and buying a bloody juicer and apparently ‘we’ (HA!) will be doing a fruit and veg detox as well…..unless the juicer takes cooked rump steaks, eye fillet etc I can’t see it being a success…...wish me well Punchers….I delving into the ‘Vegetarian Zone’.......

fairsfair says:

09:22am | 13/02/12

LOL Nossy - I will let you know as soon as I hear

Twas a tough old weekend… I tells ya.

fairsfair says:

09:43am | 13/02/12

I did dave - but I have not done the full juice thing the whole time. I have to tell you I feel really good. If you can do it - do it.

I think the key to it is to only eat uncooked veg. I prefer raw anyway, so I have not had any dramas with it (aside from my getting off crack type symptoms last Wednesday and Thursday). They were pretty hard days, but now - I feel pretty good and the old work skirt - falling off.

nossy says:

09:44am | 13/02/12

@TheRealDave   your good lady wife must be spot on TRD - they always are - you must need a detox fella - all that fine food and wine you have been consuming - time to experience PAIN fella!  hahhahahah

sunny says:

11:46am | 13/02/12

Good luck @fairsfair - and may the sauce be with you.

fairsfair says:

03:03pm | 13/02/12

Urgh - I still haven’t heard any feedback.

They keep saying tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.

So annoyed!!!

john says:

06:52pm | 13/02/12

@fairsfair “I embark on my low-carb future”

Fairfair, its not about the carbs or entirely what you eat. A juice can contain more kilojoules than a whopper double beef burger,  you will put on more mass eventually.

It all about the kilojoules, you should have no more than 8700 per day just to stay the same weight. Less if you want to lose weight, anything you eat- just count the kilojoules. Eat anything you want preferably raw ingredients like fruit/veg, raw grains etc so you have to burn more kilojoules for your intestines to process it & no fat .Ensure total for a 24 hour period does not exceed 8700 kj.

Simply need to eat less and ride out the cravings with green tea or water until they subside once your gut shrinks back to normal size.

In recent mythbusters Adam measured the caloric content of 1 gram of cereal at 9 calories and the caloric content of 1 gram of cardboard box at 20% less than the cereal.

Even though you have no nutrients in cardboard you can still get fat on eating it, even if it has 20% less kilojoules.

Provided you don’t have high blood pressure, spark up your metabolism with 3 cups of coffee per day, or green tea if you have high blood pressure, with as much water,  your body will be unrecognisable in 1 month, and you will need to go skinny clothes shopping. It is very expensive losing weight because all you clothes, suits etc need to be replaced.

Green tea for some reason accelerates weight loss whilst asleep, if you are losing weight too quickly eat a heavy cooked breakfast so you don’t feel flat.

And sleep without clothes duna so your body burns more energy to keep you warm and use thin thread sheet if really needed. 7-8 hour well rested deep sleep is the most important aspect for weight loss.

Remember eat less!!!!

TheRealDave says:

09:21am | 13/02/12

Its a shit stir. Because there is no way the could be serious.

Shane* says:

09:32am | 13/02/12

Your link could be Exhibit A in the ‘What’s wrong with Australian Journalism?’ class they should force journo cadets to take.

Deliberate and calculated misrepresentation, propagating myths, pitching to prejudices, sensationalised headlines and blatant fearmongering.

patsy says:

09:49am | 13/02/12

Yeah right. Boofriggenhoo. Where you CHOOSE to live is YOUR lifestyle CHOICE. My son lives 6hrs drive away and I don’t drive so I wait until Parker can drive us up there. I save up $230 for a return flight because I know I wouldn’t have the energy to play with the grandkids after I got off a train. I/we visit 3 times a year max.  We have free long distance phone calls and I’m looking into Skype so I can see tham as well.
Put you hand into you own pocket if you wat to see your family.

marley says:

10:00am | 13/02/12

@TheRealDave and Shane - maybe it’s a beat up, because this is one of hundreds of submissions to the Inquiry.  The fact remains, the article is an accurate representation of what the group actually said. 

Don’t believe me?  Here it is:  submission 403 to the Joint Standing Committee on Migration’s Inquiry into Multiculturalism in Australia.

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/mig/multiculturalism/subs/sub403.pdf

I actually think the article didn’t do a bad job of fitting the Women’s Association submission into the views of the broader Muslim population.  A beat up, possibly; deliberate misrepresentation, I don’t think so.

Tim says:

10:08am | 13/02/12

Shane,
are you saying that the group didn’t make the submission?

Erick says:

10:08am | 13/02/12

@Shane* - What “deliberate and calculated misrepresentation”? Are you claiming that the Islamic Women’s Welfare Association didn’t say this?

The reporting seems quite fair to me, with an alternative view being given equal space. I think your objection has more to do with the fact that this has been reported - as it should be.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:48am | 13/02/12

It wont happen.

Its no different to any group wanting more things. Saying that it was a stupid thing to put forward.

@Jay-ded

“They also prefer to live close to their “own people”

Never been to Cronulla?

M says:

10:57am | 13/02/12

I fully support this measure, as long as it extends to funding a European jaunt for myself so that I can keep in contact with my continental relatives.

After all, we’re all about equality in this country, aren’t we? Spain, France, Portugal, here I come.

James1 says:

10:58am | 13/02/12

So the views of a tiny group that no one had ever heard of is pertinent and relevant and requires reporting, but a question about a controversial embassy celebrating its 40th anniversary asked of a senior political leader on a day seen as controversial by said embassy isn’t?

You must judge these things using a different standard to me, Erick.

Family Guy says:

11:26am | 13/02/12

As long as Its a one way ticket and permanent

Shane* says:

11:41am | 13/02/12

@Marley, Tim and Erick

“Pay for our trips home”? Really? I can’t see anywhere in the submission where they ask for help paying airfares or a cheque in the mail signed ‘Australian taxpayer’. No. They ask for tax consessions on travel. There’s an important distinction to be made there. However, if you need me to point it out, then chances are good you’ve already made up your mind on the topic.

My point is that the article is constructed to illicit an angered response (as both Jay-ded and Sarah show quite clearly) when in reality the issue is a lot more gentle than that. I wouldn’t support such tax concessions, but articles like this do more harm than good by fostering illwill towards migrants.

marley says:

12:12pm | 13/02/12

@Shane “Migrants face a lot of sacrifices…This loss should be compensated by the Government in one way or the other.”  Sorry, but that seems pretty open-ended to me.  As for the suggestion by Senada Softic-Telalovic that refugees should be assisted by the government to go home to settle their affairs, well, that’s laughable. 

Both comments illustrate a sense of entitlement that I think is indeed worthy of analysis.

And are you saying that the journalist shouldn’t have reported on what is a publicly available document?  If any ill will develops from this, surely that is entirely the responsibility of the authors of the submission, not of the reporter.

Tim says:

12:28pm | 13/02/12

Shane,
how is a tax deduction not funding their trips home?
As Marley points out they say “compensated for in one way or another”.

They also ask for tax deductions for sending money to overseas relatives.

I know that something like this will never get up, but even asking for it is beyond ridiculous.

Erick says:

12:31pm | 13/02/12

@James1 - I don’t get your point. Both of those things are relevant, and should be reported.

James1 says:

01:17pm | 13/02/12

My apologies Erick - I misunderstood your position.  I took you to be arguing that the ABC should never have asked Mr Abbott about his thoughts on the tent embassy, considering you are gunning so hard for whoever thought the question needed asking.

AdamC says:

09:54am | 13/02/12

Aint the multi-cult grand, Sarah?

In our pollies’ defence, I suspect even the most fanatically multiculturalist among them would baulk at this nonsense. It sounds like something someone like me would make up as a joke to lampoon multi-culti extremists!

Rupert says:

10:09am | 13/02/12

Was this in one of my papers?

Sarah says:

11:09am | 13/02/12

Hey AdamC

Oh yes, grand indeed

Yes - I have to agree. There aren’t many pollies in Australia who are quite that stupid, I think.

There’s probably one or two who are bleating for it - eg: Sarah Hanson Young and whatnot - but I guess we’ll hear from those people before this is all over, should they support this inanity.

jay-ded says:

09:42am | 13/02/12

He’s not is he?

nossy says:

09:56am | 13/02/12

jay-ded - sure is - blue skies ahead jay-ded. Heres Clint Eastwood doing a brilliant “Obama” Chrysler Superbowl ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFAiqxm1FDA

jay-ded says:

10:31am | 13/02/12

Jiminy nossy.  That’s bad.

nossy says:

10:40am | 13/02/12

@jay-ded   all going down well with the Yanks jay-ded - they are very “different” to us in many ways.

TimB says:

10:59am | 13/02/12

Ouch. That did give me a chuckle Nossy.

Sounds like the wife is great Mafia material

nossy says:

12:01pm | 13/02/12

@M   what if one of those cars turns out to be an unmarked Police Car M? You will get more than a cheery wave then my good man!  hahhahaha

jay-ded says:

12:21pm | 13/02/12

I always warn other drivers by flashing my lights but I do it out of sight of the coppers as it is illegal to warn other drivers…

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:31pm | 13/02/12

I have always done it and will continue to.

Mark G says:

12:59pm | 13/02/12

M,

There is a difference between safe in a normal circumstance and safe in an emergency. Sure you can successfully negotiate that road at speeds like 120-130km/hr. You don’t suddenly crash because you exceeded the speed limit but that is not the rationale that is used to set speed limits. A speed limit is not set based on driver skill. Speed limits are set to minimise fatalities. 100km/hr over roads like that is fast enough to be practical but slow enough that if something goes wrong (tire blowout, mechanical failure, avoiding wildlife, avoiding other traffic…...) then there is a reasonable chance that you will not kill everyone in the car. This is decided based on previous crash investigations, vehicle testing and crash testing. On dual carriage ways this is increase by 10Km/hr because of the increase reaction time available due to the separating of traffic. Just because you can successfully get there at 130km/hr, doesn’t mean that the journey was a safe one.

M says:

01:27pm | 13/02/12

Mark G, you’re wrong in you acertation that speed limits are set to reduce fatalities, they are set to maximize revenue.

There is plenty of evidence which suggests that raising the speed limits would reduce accidents, google is your friend.

Mark G says:

01:07pm | 13/02/12

It wasn’t about refugees it was about migrants. I think some people need to look up the difference. Not every Muslim that comes to Australia is illegal or fleeing from violence and persecution. There are other reasons to come to Australia you know.

I do however agree with those who have said that this article is more than likely a misquoted and deliberate distortion of the facts. There may have been a request from one stupid Muslim immigrant wanting special treatment. I’m pretty sure that that request is not the residue sentiment of the Muslim population as a whole.

marley says:

01:50pm | 13/02/12

@MarkG - if you read the newspaper piece, the other person interviewed, Senada Softic-Telalovic, ” said while some help might be justified for needy refugees who had to go overseas to settle their affairs…” 

And while I certainly don’t think this represents mainstream Muslim thinking, it does represent the views of an organization, not just a single individual.  I’ve provided the link to the actual submission above.

Anubis says:

12:21pm | 13/02/12

Regular drop-outs and pixellation - not a real loss though as the quality of programming is total cr*p. So really, nothing missed.

Knemon says:

12:24pm | 13/02/12

@ Gregg - For some reason I only have problems with ABC24, it seems to be worse when it’s raining, which is often. I have repeatedly emailed Aunty about the problem but I’m still waiting for a response. What confuses me, why do I have trouble with just the ABC? It’s too much for my little brain to fathom.

jay-ded says:

12:30pm | 13/02/12

Happens on about 10 channels for me.  I think about 3 of them are the same channel though.  It’s mainly the SBS channels that keep pixellating.

Mark G says:

01:13pm | 13/02/12

The reception bit brings back memories of the Austin Powers movies where back in the 70’s he has perfect communications with his boss in his car with analogue technology but when he comes forward to the future his internet connected communications are crap.

AdamC says:

01:31pm | 13/02/12

Australia’s coffee culture is nothing like the US West Coast’s and you obviously take yourself waaaaay too seriously!

jay-ded says:

01:37pm | 13/02/12

Coffee is a talking point for those with nothing to say. In Australia coffee is art and art is for er…wankers.

Gee Infused, you sure have a lot to say…about nothing.

marley says:

01:57pm | 13/02/12

@infused - “that country has a transport infrastructure, a thriving culture, an export market, free education, free healthcare and allows same sex marriage.”  I’m confused.  What country are you talking about?  Certainly not Australia, and certainly not the USA.  And I’ve never heard the coffee culture in the Netherlands is anything to write home about.

BTW, I love a good cup of cappuccino and it has nothing to do with any gospel of blandism or needing to feel important.  And it has nothing to do with aping Americanisms.  I learned to love a cappucco in its homeland of Italy.  And it’s from Italian immigrants, not American chains, that the Australian coffee culture derives.

Wynston Cruso says:

02:25pm | 13/02/12

You could put it like that Infused. Alternatively, people might drink it because it’s fucking delicious and contains a buttload of caffeine.

sunny says:

05:15pm | 13/02/12

@Infused “It’s a sad reflection on our society.” I reckon the folks in Iraq would probably like to go down to their local coffee shop and talk some shit with their friends without wondering if they’re gonna get blown to smithereens. It’s a pretty good reflection of our society that we can drink some coffee and talk some shit without too many worries.
I’ve heard it said that real artists don’t choose to be an artist, the art chooses them. Those are the most genuine people you will find - furthest from being wankers - so you can’t paint them all with the same brush. If one of the arts ever chose you, you would chase it like an obsessed rat up a drainpipe.

Aside from that you’ve got a way with words I got to admit I had a good chuckle.

nossy says:

03:07pm | 13/02/12

@jay-ded nasty weather approaching jay-ded - batten down the hatches!
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR661.loop.shtml#skip
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ20038.html

jay-ded says:

03:23pm | 13/02/12

I keep getting the warnings from the BCC nossy, but most of the storms seem to pass us by and end up at the Gold Coast.  Hope you like water and lots of it!

nossy says:

03:52pm | 13/02/12

@jay-ded   we are copping it right now jay-ded - its the lightning I dont like - “one flash and your ash!”  hahahahh