Punch on: Open thread 11/10/2011

marley says:

07:21am | 11/10/11

no, no, no - it’s not the clothes, it’s going to be all the little miniature computers and iPods, iPhones and iPads that go with the toy.  You’ll have to update every 6 months on everything.  An endless gold mine, just like the real thing.

Shane* says:

07:58am | 11/10/11

10 Black Turtlenecks… 5 black and 5 slightly darker black.

Ben C says:

09:23am | 11/10/11

@ acotrel

I wouldn’t go that far as to say scientists are lesser people - would you not agree that a doctor is a scientist? A pharmacist?

I get where you’re coming from, it’s the label “scientist” that gives off that vibe. I think if you add or change the label to a specific field of science, the perspective changes. Shouldn’t have to be that way though.

ibast says:

07:24am | 11/10/11

This figure is unrealistic.  I should be seated in front of a video game.  It is also way too tanned

Robert S McCormick says:

10:19am | 11/10/11

I can’t imagine decent people liker Steve or Bill allowing some young boy - or girl for that matter - to “play” with them. That is the domain of the clergy isn’t it?
If Steve is in Heaven the boss up there would not allow it!
If he’s in Hell then he would have be out-numbered by all those popes, priests, nuns, cardinals,bishops,archbishops, pastors etc. coercing anyone younger thah them into playing with them!

gobsmack says:

11:42am | 11/10/11

Oh dear.  I guess I should have said “playing with a Steve Jobs doll in one hand and a Bill Gates doll in the other”.
I thought that was implied from the context.  Also I didn’t expect my innocent comment to be twisted into something dirty.
Thanks for your reply RSM.    Not.

Aarav says:

08:59am | 11/10/11

I don’t see a problem with it.

Aarav says:

08:59am | 11/10/11

I don’t see a problem with it.

TimB says:

09:07am | 11/10/11

We need more “Bort” Coke bottles, I repeat, we are sold out of “Bort” Coke bottles.

Elphaba says:

09:08am | 11/10/11

Bahahaha, my work mate and I have been asking the same question.

“Who the f*ck is Aarav??”

Look, all I can tell you is, the Coles near work is out of 1.25 litre bottles of Coke every day.  They’re selling like hotcakes.  In terms of a successful strategy, Coke have nailed it.  The Pepsi marketing director probably thought of killing himself on more than one occasion…

Jade says:

09:28am | 11/10/11

I’m on day 5 of trying to find Jade on a bottle.  I have seen Fali Leli and a whole heap of other names… no jade :( I will find one though.

Its a very successful marketing strategy by Coke, I don’t buy coke all that often, but if I can find Jade on a bottle I will!

Elphaba says:

09:37am | 11/10/11

@Jade, I saw a ‘Jade’ bottle the other day.

I’ve only seen 1 bottle with my name on it.  I didn’t buy it though because I’m trying to give it up.

*sucks water bottle and pouts*

Mark G says:

09:44am | 11/10/11

Maybe they are expecting people to go out there searching for their names. By only releasing obscure names they are simply intensifying the search. This may well be a brilliant ploy.

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:45am | 11/10/11

Pepsi Max or death. We don’t buy into the evil Coke Cola Empire…..

Jade says:

11:41am | 11/10/11

@ Elphaba, I won’t actually drink it! haha just keep it cause I am weird like that

Mark G you could be onto something there!

I will keep searching!

gobsmack says:

11:44am | 11/10/11

Change your name to “Coke”.

Matthew says:

01:54pm | 11/10/11

You know the funniest bit, those bottles are made and printed in Australia.  Coke has factories all around the world, but clearly they get their name pools from one place only.

I bet in India they’re saying “Who the f*ck is Jade?”.

@Elphaba, me too, just think how much sugar you’re not drinking.  P.S.  I’m surprised they wrote “Elphaba” on the side of a bottle! *angel emote*

Elphaba says:

02:39pm | 11/10/11

@Matthew, I know, that’s what I’m thinking.  Most of my sugar intake is from fruit and the bit of bread and pasta I eat during the week, so I figure ditching the Coke/soft drink is a good idea.  I’d only have it twice a week, but still… twice too many.

I love Coke though.  It’s bloody hard.  I put a bit of the sugar free cordial in my water just to mix it up a bit, but the guy opposite me drinking his 3 cans a day is NOT helping!

I also put all my spare change into a money box on my desk that I can’t get into without some tinsnips, so I don’t buy it from the machines at work.  It’s a whole psychological thing.

I think they should make a bottle with ‘Awesome’ on it.  I’d buy that!

nossy says:

08:26am | 11/10/11

@richard - not bad at all Richard - I had to read it a couple of times to get the drift but its clever - from the sea to the inland - nice Aussie peom - well done!

neo says:

10:29am | 11/10/11

I never understood poetry that doesn’t rhyme.

TimB says:

09:37am | 11/10/11

Perhaps a tear of mirth Nossy.

Robert S McCormick says:

10:37am | 11/10/11

No. she like the rest is a political opportunist & hypocrite.
“Compare the Two”:
She is prepared to send minors, yes, some as young as 14 years or less off-shore to a country which has not signed the UN Charters covering them and where they will be beyond her Immigration Minister’s control - remember he is their Legal Guardian - a country with which she has no written, legally binding agreement as to how these kids are to be treated & therefore open to possible abuses & deprivations. No compassion, no generosity just hard-nosed nastiness towards children who have committed no crimes.
and
Her apparent concern for a foul-mouthed 14 year old caught buying drugs in a country where the penalties for buying, selling & using drugs are known to be severe.
Oh! I get it!
The 14 year-old in Bali prison is white & lives in an ALP-held federal Electorate!
The children being transported are “Not-Quite-White”, their parents don’t, as yet, vote and therefore are not entitled to the same treatment.

nossy says:

12:24pm | 11/10/11

@TimB shall join you in laughter Tim shes committing the cardinal sin of poliies and that is she isnt listening to the voters! Yes Ms Gillarrd we have ELECTIONS here in Australia.

nossy says:

09:12am | 11/10/11

@Dash - its a shocker Dash and yes it does look like it will go through - followed soon I read by the MRRT on the mining sector - strewth - Gillard is so low now in the polls you would have to think no matter what she does shes a dead duck. Here in QLD Dash Gillard is on the nose bigtime as is here Carbon Tax. Big week in Parliament starting today and also being presente dwill the be hugely unpopular Malaysian Asylum Seeker deal which looks at this stage to be a dead duck - but stranger things have happened. Off on my beach run Dash - look forward to your commentary this week and ongoing.

fairsfair says:

09:17am | 11/10/11

Yeah, I am a bit wild about it too Dash - but I am just over it. They have beaten me. Worn me down. I so don’t give a f*ck anymore.

We will just have to wait for the next government (whoever that may be, I live in hope someone will ride in on a white horse wearing shining armour and not be defined as a c*ckhead) to incorporate it into our country’s future.

It will all work out in the end. The sad thing is - even with its implimentation, the talking about it will. not. stop. It. will. never. stop

andye says:

09:46am | 11/10/11

@Dash - “And they continue to hammer the people in our community that are already contributing the most financially to the running of this country. The people who are providing the government with the financial means to tackle environmental issues. We seem to punish the people who are working hard and making a success of their lives and reward those who sit on their arses and contribute nothing. Why?”

And yet the divide between rich and poor in Australia continues to grow, despite the existence of 20 somethings and couches and the apparently endless parade of benefits you get from combining the two. Why is this the case, if our wealth redistributing socialist system is handing out bucketloads of dollars to the laziest people? Surely the rich would be getting poorer if they were at a disadvantage to the poor?

I am one of the taxpayers that doesn’t get back as much as he puts in from this carbon tax. There are a lot of people with a lot more money than me, however - and if you think that they are paying anything like as much tax (percentage wise and including indirect taxes such as GST) as you or I or even a poorer person then you are a bit of a numpty.

Also, if you want to get more money moving around the economy to stimulate business and help our country, do you think it would be better to give a new tax break to the rich or the poor? Who spends a larger percentage of their income every week at local businesses?

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:49am | 11/10/11

I think the carbon tax is badly implemented. It should have been with no compensation, no ETS, Carbon Tariffs, proceeds towards building nuclear power plants and population stabilization. The current carbon tax is useless….

John Smythe says:

09:53am | 11/10/11

What is sad is not just the brute force implementation, but the implementation plan that makes it so difficult and costly to unwind (according to an article I read) that shows just how ridiculous this version of a carbon pricing scheme is in the first place.

/sigh

Elphaba says:

09:56am | 11/10/11

@Shane, exactly. This one has too many conditions on it and looks like it will do nothing for the environment and instead just shuffle money around.

What’s the point?

Dash says:

10:11am | 11/10/11

@andye - taking even more from the top 10% of taxpayers who are already contibuting over 50% of the PAYG tax revenue is not sustainable. Particularly when we have an aging population. We need to broaden the tax base and we need to reduce the difference between the top marginal tax rate and the corporate tax rate. That’s exactly what they did in NZ last year. Their GST is 15% and top marginal rate is 33%. Our top rate with medicare is 46.5% yet they want to reduce the corporate rate to 28%???

I would never argue against a progressive tax system. But why should any individual in this country be expected to pay a higher tax rate than the corporate rate? Why should individuals be paying 35%, 38%, 40%, 42% of their income in PAYG tax, when foreign owned multi-nationals expropriate their profits overseas and pay just 30% (soon to be 28%). That’s not equitable!

And if this is an environmental policy, why discriminate against people on the basis of their income? Let alone compensate the big polluting industries of steel and coal. As well as ship more and more coal to China. It’s either stupid or a fraud. I suspect both!

Too few are paying the way for too many! And this government continue to wack the same people, time and time again. Flood levy is a perfect example.

And the carbon issue has ground down people (just as it has Fairs), to a point where we just meekly accept it.

The next thing will be a tax for a sovereign wealth fund, followed by a disability levy. And guess who’s going to pay for those? Yep the same small few that are expected to pay for everything else. When is enough enough? This is a socialist pack of fools who will not stop until they have completely removed the incentive for education and hard work in this country!

If this goes much further I will stop working 12 hour days, sell up and just bludge on a beach somewhere. Or set up a company, run personal expenses through it, split my income, do cash jobs, declare half and screw the PAYG taxpayer. It’s just not worth being a successful PAYG taxpayer anymore.

Dot says:

10:47am | 11/10/11

Shut up and take your medicine.
You may not be smart enough to know how the active ingredients will make you better, but it will.

Now that’s a good boy.

andye says:

12:27pm | 11/10/11

@Dash - You could have your flattening out of the tax structure, but I think it would need to be combined with removal of many of the tax breaks the wealthy take advantage of… and even a purely flat structure would need some kind of low income cutoff for the poor to survive.

Also, you only seem to want to talk about PAYG. The fact is that lots of indirect taxes like the GST are focused on poorer people. These actually flatten out the effective rates paid by different groups significantly compared to just looking at PAYG.

If you raise taxes on the poor and middle more, this will also impact GST. Less will be collected. This would need to be taken into account as well. It would affect the amount of money that moves through the economy. The first few hundred I earn a week is required for me to live. The marginal utility drops as I earn more, and that is much more likely to be invested, spent overseas, and so on.

The fact is that almost all the money that goes through lower incomes ends up back in the economy straight away. Before you made your big change, you had better work out how it is going to affect the economy and Australian businesses.

“Or set up a company, run personal expenses through it”

Yeah. I once went to (among other places) Ibiza on money that I hadn’t paid any tax on, though I had performed the work that earned it. It was complicated but legal. The biggest problem that I have with our tax system is that it allows all sorts of crazy stuff like this if you are wealthy and have a half decent accountant. People I know earning several times what I do (and I do OK) pay a lower percentage of tax than me.

Dash says:

02:47pm | 11/10/11

andye - I am an accountant. I think I understand the system very well. I can tell you if you are a PAYG taxpayer you get screwed. Corporates are the ones who are able to rort the system and I gave you a number of examples.

How many times have you had a tradesman do cash jobs for you? Their missus is company director and they split their income.

“Before you made your big change, you had better work out how it is going to affect the economy and Australian businesses.” - do you think the ALP have taken your advice for thisCarbon Tax policy? They are ignorong the noises from Australian business, Australian householders and Australian taxpayers.

Please tell me what tax breaks the wealthy take advantage of. I’d love to know!

The GST is not focused on poorer people at all! The GST is focused on consumption! And you cannot avoid consumption andye!

My argument is that the tax burden should be spread more evenly throughout the entire community. That tax revenue should not be placed at the feet of the top 10% of PAYG taxpayers like it is! I also argue that there is a significant mismatch between what corporates pay and what individuals pay in this country.

Your argument is the opposite. You believe, that those already paying the most should pay more. I’ll disagree because that is not sustainable and as the percentage of people working declines with the aging of our population, something is going to have to give.

Australia’s GST is low at 10%. NZ, UK and Canada for example all have higher rates. But alas this ALP will never deliver true tax reform because they are too tied in to the unions and the left faction is running this country. I’ve never met a dole bludger yet that votes Liberal.

This argument of “if you’re wealthy and have a half decent accountant” is the biggest load of shit I have ever heard!

Ben C says:

02:48pm | 11/10/11

@ andye

While the Rineharts, Lowys, Forrests, Packers etc of Australia are paying a lower effective tax rate than you, in dollar terms the tax they are paying could well be more than your gross salary.

Further, when you consider that the majority of PAYG taxpayers are in the 30% bracket, yet contribute less than half of the total PAYG tax revenue, you can see why the rich engage the best accountants to reduce their tax bills.

Now that the government is raising the tax free threshold to $18,200, there’s some tax revenue that will be lost. Which will then mean that the top 10% of PAYG payers, even with access to the tax free threshold, will end up paying more than half of the total PAYG tax revenue.

Now, the carbon tax comes in, complete with compensation packages for lower income earners and polluters for their increased compliance costs. This is where the carbon tax gets exposed not for what it’s supposed to be - an environmental policy - but for what it really is - a socialist agenda. By providing compensation as part of the scheme, we will effectively see the poor only paying GST, while the rich are paying every tax under the sun.

As Shane suggested, this carbon tax, for it to be a true environmental measure, should have no compensation scheme in place.

Dash says:

03:44pm | 11/10/11

Ben C - Amen! Well said. That sums it up very well.

I bet you when the ALP increase the tax free threshold they do the same thing they have recently and adjust the rates so that everyone earning 80K or more get zero!

Ghost says:

09:07am | 11/10/11

Hot Tub

Read The Punch memo 43/11:

“People Who Talk About Themselves in the Third Person Come Across as Wankers.”

hot tub political machine says:

09:43am | 11/10/11

Memo to Ghost:

Hot tub has a functioning Wind-up-merchant-omoter. That is all.

Ben C says:

09:27am | 11/10/11

Hahahaha, love it neo!

Anna C says:

09:52am | 11/10/11

I preferred it the first time around when I read it in the SMH’s letters to the Editor section.

Ben C says:

10:41am | 11/10/11

On the day of Steve Jobs’ death, a mate of mine posted on facebook:

“I applied for employment at Apple, but then there was no more Jobs.”

After copping some (light-hearted) slack, my mate then posted:

“Sorry, it appears that my iPhone has switched on iC*** mode. miBad. In other news, stocks went up for oranges.”

Cue more (light-hearted) outrage.

Babe in the Woods says:

12:02pm | 11/10/11

Stop it!  Johnny Cash lives on in our house!

Michael says:

09:10am | 11/10/11

I fell asleep Fairs’ who was she?

Seanr says:

09:22am | 11/10/11

more importantly..your blind date ff..details please?

fairsfair says:

09:59am | 11/10/11

I dunno MIchael. She said um a lot and spoke quite slowly. She was asked a question on Bolt and did this massive lead in… About three minutes later she finally made comment on the findings of the case. Snoozefest!

They really gave it to Shorten and Bishop though. She even slipped in a couple death stares. Gold. I wish it was that raucous each week.

Seanr - spoke with Dash about it yesterday. It did not eventuate due to my mystery virus and now he has gone away for work for “a couple of weeks”. We agreed we would just postpone, so we’ll see if it actually ends up happening. So damnit! no details to report.

styledirect says:

10:40am | 11/10/11

Was a very good episode, Bill Shorten always aims up and answers questions every time hes one, have to respect him for that.

She did wind on but thought she discussed her point with reason, but the writer bald guy summed up Bolt perfect and to that she had no comback.

Also Merkel was very calm and reasoned throughout the show, even Julie Bishop was tolerable.

adam says:

10:56am | 11/10/11

fairs only details if the date went poorly, I get jealous you see

Seanr says:

11:19am | 11/10/11

@fairsfair. Well that’s a lot less interesting than the scenario I’d built up in my head..it involved drinks, dinner then a car chase, some gaol time, an ex girlfriend and a blue pill..

fairsfair says:

01:54pm | 11/10/11

lol. I don’t have any ex-girlfriends Seanr

On Q&A another thing I had a real issue was that dude with the purple glasses saying “you don’t win the war on drugs by going after victims” or something along those lines. Umm…. that is actually part of the plan. It is still illegal to be in posession of and use illicit drugs. There are still repercussions associated with that. So being an addict and seeking a hit from a dealer will land you in prison, just like seeking to get on a boat via an illegal means will.

I thought it a rather silly analogy that everyone clapped and then TJ tried to apply further….

ibast says:

09:42am | 11/10/11

He has a different job in the LNP these days.

hot tub political machine says:

09:52am | 11/10/11

I always got the impression that he enjoyed the conflict and as he stated himself, he didn’t mean a fair portion of what he said – just said it to wind people up and see what happened. I sometimes wonder if all the peeps here wanting a more polite conversation made him decide to head elsewhere.

hot tub political machine says:

09:52am | 11/10/11

I always got the impression that he enjoyed the conflict and as he stated himself, he didn’t mean a fair portion of what he said – just said it to wind people up and see what happened. I sometimes wonder if all the peeps here wanting a more polite conversation made him decide to head elsewhere.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:51am | 11/10/11

He came in under the name ‘yawn’ for a while.

Punch is better off without him tbh, all he did was wait until someone commented and then disect their comment with ‘hahaha, gawd, lololol, snigger’ it was like having to put up with a 5 year old.

fairsfair says:

11:23am | 11/10/11

My great powers of deduction (in my own mind) have him as the one who had been banned. Perhaps even the one that Tors illuded to being the one they banned and then realised they’d banned an entire division of some government office… (pure speculation!)

I remember the yawn. But it was obviously him and I wonder if it was a set up. He started out all normal, but then got a bit out of control with his HAHAHHAHAHAHA *sniggers*. It was a bit much to take, but then I am sure people say that about me and others. He was definately part of the furniture old MarK, and I miss his Oakeshott updates and well he did have a pretty good sense of humour when he wasn’t stoking the troll fires.

ibast says:

12:26pm | 11/10/11

You’re probably onto something there FF.  I tended not to feed the troll but I did notice some personal attacks on authors (particularly female).  I had him pegged as a year 11 student myself.

hot tub political machine says:

01:12pm | 11/10/11

Lets not forget the guy tended to go missing – t’would be unfair to him to assume he is the banned one, you may well be correct but innocent until proven guilty ect.

fairsfair says:

01:26pm | 11/10/11

True Tubs, just in the past he always announced his departure and never stayed away for this long. Like I said though, all speculation

Adam Diver says:

03:56pm | 11/10/11

MarK was gold, and this place has lost something with him gone. Whilst he loved a good snicker and a good laugh, very rarely did I see him lose an argument, on logical grounds and particularly enjoyed the savagery of his attacks on Persephone and Tory.

He was great, and there is no way this place is better off without him

nossy says:

06:50pm | 11/10/11

@Adam Diver   agreed Adam - come back MarK - the man who out laughs my goodself.

nossy says:

11:43am | 11/10/11

@Anubis whilst the matter is still under Police investigation it doesnt look good does it Anubis - and its not a good thing to be happening for the Gillard government. Lets hope John Howard was correct when he recently told us that hhe believes at the next election Australia will vote conclusively one way or the other without a hung Parliament. You couldnt imagine Thomson winning his seat again anyway.

TimB says:

12:28pm | 11/10/11

Labor wouldn’t be stupid enough to preselect him again.

Then again they *were* stupid enough to pre-select him last time despite the warnings….

I find it detestable that this man holds one of the critical votes for legislation that by all rights should be scrapped. What a farce.

nossy says:

11:50am | 11/10/11

@palone   brilliant palone - I read it about 3 times to get the flow and it gets better with every reading - you did it palone!

fairsfair says:

02:28pm | 11/10/11

Its not just you.

Those hippies on the esplanade (that I could smell before I could see) who had the bongoes out while using their teeth to anchor the construction of those woolen “friendship bracelets” absolutely rolled me.

I couldn’t believe it. I seriously considered putting my purse pack dove deo in their rastafarrian hat/collection tray. GTFO!

Kurisu Sonsaku says:

07:17pm | 11/10/11

And juliar will condem a once proud political party to electoral oblivion - wow, what a legacy.

For shame, ALP - the liars party subserviant to crazy uncle bob.