Punch on: Open thread 11/01/2012

Bonds worker says:

08:40am | 11/01/12

Hmm, this would be the story that said the 13 directors had “voted themselves pay rises” when (a) there was no such vote and (b) there were only 7 directors? What rubbish.

That would be the “pay hike” given to a woman who was promoted to CEO at a third of the salary of her male predecessor?

If you want to look at obscene, maybe you should have had to deal with the lies and abuse from the media - and grubby little people in the public who love being given the green light by the media to hurl abuse at strangers - that we employees at Pacific Brands had to deal with.

And another thing - its worth pointing out that I and about 5000 others still have jobs because of what the company did. Every other clothing company in Australia had moved offshore years ago and we couldn’t compete (what? You didn’t read that in the media? How strange that was glossed over….).

Babe in the Woods says:

09:54am | 11/01/12

@Bonds Worker, sadly this is often the case.  The thing is, I read from several different media outlets, and they all reported the same.  Obviously I am not going to go and investigate every single story myself am I?  Anyway, if what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt you) then yay for Bonds.  But why on earth were the 5,000 not refuting all the stories at the time? Or if they were, who was spiking the stories. Ah, ruins a nice day.

Elphaba says:

08:05am | 11/01/12

Perhaps they think you cover it more than enough and they don’t need to?

I’m not being facetious or excusing them, I’m just proposing a reason.  You post a lot of articles and prompt a lot of discussion and debate - you’re probably doing the job for them.
Have a good one.

Mahhrat says:

09:28am | 11/01/12

@Elphaba, while I agree with the general point, if that is the truth then he should be hired by The Punch, or at least given some kind of retainer.

Unless Erick would be so intellectually dishonest as turn down such a stipend - and I would hope he isn’t - then the fact that ‘he’s doing their job for them’ does not excuse them for not doing their job.

RyaN says:

09:29am | 11/01/12

I think for some semblance of balance Punch editors that you should make Eric a regular punch article contributor. You of course will have to treat him as equally as Tory for instance, i.e. equal pay etc..

bec says:

09:38am | 11/01/12

Because, according to my RSS feed this morning, not a single one of the Australian feminist blogs I read daily has even mentioned the cover?

I don’t quite recall ever hearing Tracey Spicer’s name mentioned as being at the forefront of the movement. If she wants to come at eat quinoa salads with us at our next poetry reading, she is more than welcome.

Elphaba says:

09:48am | 11/01/12

@Mahhrat, I absolutely don’t think it’s an excuse.  Just putting the idea out there.

Maybe it’s not just the female editors on the Punch. Maybe the blokes think Erick’s posts are whack?  And I do feel that both sides need to work on their delivery.  I didn’t find the Voice For Men provided much info for me except more anger.  And I get that they’re angry - but whenever I hear ranting/vitriol, I turn off.  Both sides are completely guilty of this.

Theirry says:

09:54am | 11/01/12

Nobody cares but this small little fringe of men who feel that they have been hard done by.
Get over your mummy issues and harden up.

You are a fringe group howling in the wind. We don’t give a shit.

Mirror says:

10:09am | 11/01/12

@Theirry

Nobody cares but this small little fringe of women who feel that they have been hard done by.

Get over your daddy issues and harden up.

You are a fringe group howling in the wind. We don’t give a shit.

RyaN says:

10:22am | 11/01/12

@Theirry: I care, so do a lot of men, its hardly fringe now is it? I suppose you are anti the “mens shed” http://www.mensshed.org organisation too and would prefer for them to be stamped out?
Sadly for you the prime ministers partner is actually a patron of this organisation.

John Smythe says:

10:39am | 11/01/12

Welcome to the Women’s Daily Online, Erick.
The sheer contempt a certain contributor holds toward their reader base, and lack of thorough research clearly identifies the…for lack of a better word…level to which this site holds itself.

Personally, if it wasn’t for some of the commentors contributions, it certainly wouldn’t be worth the visit.

I do think “i hate pies” had a very good comment lost in the responses to yet another poorly written article was very true to the money, and if anything should be legislated, it should be that.

Change the word rights, to responsibilities, (from here on my words…)and the obnoxious shouters, bleeding hearts and their ilk would suddenly become very very quiet, and society would start changing for the better…..like back when people had “responsibilities” moreso than “rights”. (We still had rights, but it was our own responsibilities that were the focus, as responsible people take care of theirs, and more importantly others’ rights!).

NicoleG says:

10:43am | 11/01/12

I am sorry Erick, but you really need to think hard about the places you visit and support. That VFM site is absolutely disgusting. A whole blog dedicated to slagging Tory off with nothing but pure hate. And the comments that follow? **** me! I posted a comment in defence of her and boy did I cop it. Not that I give a shit, it was rather amusing. I stand by my comment BTW.

Such hate, such anger, such vitriol. And the author of the piece of crap article (ha!) in question, is a total toss bag! If he doesn’t like what you have to say, he bans you. Gutless! No wonder his Misses left him.

Carl Jung says:

10:55am | 11/01/12

@ Thierry “Get over your mummy issues”

I see this comment (or variantions on it) quite a bit when this subject comes up.

Why the resorting to unqualified and unexplained appeals to Freudian psychology as some kind of reasoned argument?

It’s (primary) school yard stuff.

Tim says:

11:01am | 11/01/12

Yes Tory,
Of course it has to be a conspiracy when no one mentioned any such thing. What a pretty strawman.

You couldn’t just admit the truth that there is hardly equal or even close to equal coverage for men’s issues here or anywhere else?

John Smythe says:

11:37am | 11/01/12

lol still ignoring the point at hand, Tory. Tim wasn’t mentioning articles from YOU personally. As assistant Editor, you are still that right?, can you honestly deny the points raised within context of the Punch articles published?

What a mess this place has become.

Erick says:

12:57pm | 11/01/12

@NicoleG - Your sexism is showing.

Tory wrote an article attacking AVFM, and AVFM wrote a response attacking Tory. That’s completely fair and even handed.

The comments to both articles contained both good and bad things.

The fact that you characterise one of these as “hate”, without criticising the other, simply displays your bias.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:03pm | 11/01/12

@Nicole G

“I posted a comment in defence of her and boy did I cop it. Not that I give a shit, it was rather amusing. I stand by my comment BTW.

Such hate, such anger, such vitriol”

Now you know what its like to be from the left on this blog

NicoleG says:

01:26pm | 11/01/12

LOL! My sexism? Bullshit Erick. I can not believe you support such shite. Majority of men commenting there need serious anger management. And if you call me bias by being appalled at some of the things being said about Tory, calling her a c*** etc, well so be it. I have never read anywhere her saying that sort of filth about others. ‘We are here to fuck your shit up in just that precise way’. Yes, completely fair there hey?

Erick says:

01:57pm | 11/01/12

@Tory Shepherd - ”  Hey Erick - what’s your definition of a feminist? Out of curiosity…”

A feminist is someone who believes in feminism.

Feminism is an ideology that is based on the idea that men, as a group, have conspired to oppress women, as a group, for hundreds or thousands of years.

Feminism is dedicated to advancing the position of women, in every possible way. Usually based on zero-sum thinking, feminism consequently is anti-male.

That’s a rather brief, unqualified and non-academic description, but as far as it goes it’s accurate.

Erick says:

02:51pm | 11/01/12

@Tory Shepherd - Until now, I thought that you could take back what you gave in terms of abuse.

But now it seems you’re complaining because someone who you slandered, dared to respond in a similar manner?

Please tell me that’s not true. I had always respected you for being able to take the abuse you got, in return for the abuse you gave out.

James1 says:

03:09pm | 11/01/12

Reading through Tory’s opinion piece, and the comments that NicoleG is referring to, it is hard to see how you think these are directly equivalent, Erick.  Could you explain for us why Tory’s ridicule is the equivalent of the sort of abuse that NicoleG refers to?  To my mind, the slanders are on totally different orders of magnitude, and the VFM stuff - especially the comments - are a totally disproportionate response.

Either way, comments such as those (on VFM) do your cause a massive disservice.  It is simply not possible to call someone a c*** and expect to be taken seriously.  These things are mutually exclusive.

Bill says:

03:10pm | 11/01/12

Boy, hasn’t Tory taken some angry pills lately! Spitting venom all over the place! Why is she so obsessed with what she likes to call MREs? For someone who claims to be so opressed by the patriarchy, Tory has a remarkably easy ability to express herself freely whenever she chooses…

AdamC says:

03:17pm | 11/01/12

In the Punch’s defence, I think its editorial mix vis-a-vis women’s and men’s issues simply reflects society’s relative weightings. As Erick is wont to point out, women’s issues are given prominence in our society and men’s issues are, by and large, ignored. Expecting a hyper-conformist journalist/editor like Tory, or a mainstream commercial media outlet like the Punch, to suddenly become equally interested in men’s concerns as women’s is simply unrealistic.

The Punch, via its commenters more so than its copy, has introduced me to some of the philosophies that underpin what is (in my view, unfortunately) reffered to as the ‘men’s movement’. It has also changed my attitude to aspects of feminism. So, for me, the glass is half full!

I also thought that Voice for Men rebuttal of Tory was playing the (wo)man rather than the ball.

TheRealDave says:

03:22pm | 11/01/12

Jeez, I found that site after the curious mentions and I’m as anti-feminist agenda crap as a lot of blokes but…could you find a bigger collection of limp-dick non-entities raging impotently at the world for ALL their ills and trying to out compete each other in saying the word ‘fuck’ like they’ve just discovered the word??

No wonder their women screwed them over. If they ever had any kind of actual adult relationship…with someone other than their right hands that is.

Friggin crybabies.

Erick says:

03:37pm | 11/01/12

@James1 - I cannot force you to see something which you are determined not to see.

John Smythe says:

03:48pm | 11/01/12

....like calling someone you don’t like a fuckwit, among other things in the line of public defamation?

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/crazy-bob-katter-and-his-moronic-gunfreak-mates/

seriously…..vitriol begats vitriol. You play by the game, the game plays back at you.

Let me know your paypal account, I’ll fund it so you can buy some credibility. 

I haven’t read the site, nor intend to. For the same reason I don’t read other extremist sites. Extremists…are extreme….hello!

Nicole, albeit there may be some, as you indicate, overly raging people on that site, I believe Erick was asking why you didn’t find Tory’s article (minus a few swear words maybe, but still no less retarded) OK. I believe that was the premise, not as you and Tory have taken to be an approval of the vitriol therein.

James1, though I can see your point, stirring an angry bee hive, and wondering why you get stung isn’t really up there with the great thought patterns.

acotrel says:

05:54pm | 11/01/12

@Erick
One day I came home from work after 32 years of marriage , and my wife said ‘I think I want a divorce’ .  I answered her immediately, I said ‘you’ve got it’.  We sat down and split everything we had right down the middle - no solicitors, no acrimony.  The stable door was open 5mm, and I took off like the road runner (Black Caviar eat your heart out )! I sincerely believe I have genuine cause to complain about the isolation, and mental cruelty I experienced, but I don’t carry on about it.  You have to realise when you are dealing with an idiot, and just walk away, whatever the cost.  Just be glad to be FREE ! You’ve heard the phrase ‘opportunity for improvement’ ?

jg says:

07:42am | 11/01/12

And in all of this something slipped past all media commentators.

After the floods and devestation of Yasi, Gillard promised a new National Emergency medal for those emergency workers involved in the recovery.

In my case, and many others, we worked tirelessly for nearly a week as volunteers in Grantham, which frankly was a hellhole, and then fronted up for another week in FNQ.

Recently the new medal was announced, but the criteria is 14 days in the disaster zone. As volunteers, coming from another state,14 days is impossible as it means three or four weeks off work without a break.

Thank you Gillard. Once again it confirms suspicions that politicians simply give lip service to the work of emergency service volunteers. Indeed, all volunteers.

So, if anyone sees the new Emergency Medal on the chest of some high ranking offical in the future, remember that there are hundreds and hundreds of others who actually did the hard slog and were not considered eligible for the gong.

Maybe one of the Punch writers would like to have a look at the issue?

jay-ded says:

07:43am | 11/01/12

She’s gonna be sooo pissed! 

Dieter Moeckel says:

11:00am | 11/01/12

jg - there was a time when people helped each other through dire circumstances natural or otherwise - during the London Blitz, During the fire bombing of Dresden, during the incendiary bombing of Japanese cities. Few oof them demanded medals. They just helped each other because that’s the human thing to do.
If you are so down on official recognition for voluntary work why not just let someone else do it? Satisfaction in a job well done is an internal satisfaction not one that requires national recognition.

Jade says:

11:44am | 11/01/12

JG - Isn’t the point of helping just to help, not because you want to be put up on a pedestal and given medals and awards?

jg says:

11:46am | 11/01/12

Dieter Moeckel, where did I say that we demanded them?

Gillard spruiked to everyone that she was creating a new one medal, and then backtracked and made the eligibility so tight that most would miss out.

And don’t lecture me on disaster. emergency volunteering pal, I’ve been doing it for half my life time and have never asked for a thing.

Dieter Moeckel says:

12:59pm | 11/01/12

Well fuck me aren’t you just the best JG and tell every one that you are.
Your blood is worth bottling

jg says:

01:35pm | 11/01/12

Do you feel better now after slinging insults around?

AFR says:

01:37pm | 11/01/12

jg - your volunteering is to be applauded, but after re-reading your post a couple of tiems, it still reads very much like you’re having a whine about not getting a medal.

fairsfair says:

01:39pm | 11/01/12

I see where you are coming from jg. Nobody expects that sort of recognition when they undertake community work, but it is held in very high esteem. Why did she raise the point at the time if she had no intention of developing criteria that complied with the spirit of her initial message?

And thanks to you - without people like you in this world, people in those affected areas would be suffering a whole lot more.

jg says:

02:57pm | 11/01/12

AFR, yes, in a way I am having a whinge.

Gillard was being pummelled in the polls and Anna Bligh was doing everything a leader should do. Gillard looked completely out of her depth and anything but a leader.

And then came the announcement that everyone involved will be awarded this new medal. No-one asked for it, no-one even expected it, but she came out and said on numerous occassions, that the volunteers/ workers will be awarded a new medal.

Yet now it appears that it will be awarded to very few. Why make the grand announcement when she had not intention of following through with actions?

So if that’s a whinge, then so be it.

Anyway, the non stop media coverage of Grantham at the moment makes me feel physically sick although it’s good to see that they are slowly recovering.

Sam says:

08:58am | 11/01/12

Can there be any doubt about the agenda of the Murdoch press?

Knemon says:

09:29am | 11/01/12

The only farce TimB is your obsession with Craig Thomson.

SimonfromLakemba says:

09:42am | 11/01/12

There is a huge smell around it, will be interesting to see what comes of it. I think hes a grub personally and shouldnt be in Parliament.

Although I take anything written by the Daily Telegraph with a pinch of salt, they seem to have a habit of stitching people up and reporting false truths.

jf says:

09:48am | 11/01/12

Once Thomson’s investigation has been completed, an investigation should be made into Tim Lee’s conduct.

Anubis says:

09:54am | 11/01/12

Craig Thomson is a theiving, embezzling scum bag who needs to be made to answer for his indescretions. But he will not be brought to account while he is one of the required numbers to prop up this incompetent Government. As for the Fair Work executive, Government flunkies refusing to cooperate with the Police investigation, no doubt under instruction from senior Government members. The whole thing is corrupt.

TimB says:

10:05am | 11/01/12

I know, right Knemon?

This obsession I have with expecting our elected representitives to actually behave appropriately, not misappropriate funds, and take some responsibility for their actions when caught out. I don’t know how I make it through the day.

I should be more like you and the ALP and ignore such reprehensible behaviour.

nossy says:

10:09am | 11/01/12

@TimB hey Timmy - what about all that “evidence” you had fella - still holding it back from the Police my good man!  hahahah wipe the egg off your face Liberal Party Member TimB!

TimB says:

10:45am | 11/01/12

” what about all that “evidence” you had “

NSW Police have got it Nossy. Do try to keep up.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/police-confirm-craig-thomsons-signature-on-credit-card/story-fn59niix-1226132654746

Despite Thomson’s screeching denials and claims of signature forgery, NSW police have confirmed, with evidence, that Thomson used a union credit card to hire prositutes. These are no longer mere allegations, but cold hard facts.

The case now resides with VIC police to determine if such deplorable behaviour consitutes fraud. And a collective WTF will be issued if it turns out to be otherwise- You can be sure that the rank and file union members will demand rule changes so this kind of crap never happens again.

@ JF, Agree. A Labor lackey prolonging an investigation that would do immense damage to the Gillard government? Yeah nothing fishy about that at all. 

Stinko stinko stinko.

Tim says:

11:05am | 11/01/12

TimB,
there’s been no evidence that any crimes have been committed.

The worst you could say is you disagree with his behaviour from a moral standpoint which is really immaterial to the case.

The voters of Thompson’s seat will have the chance to have their say at the next election.

nossy says:

11:26am | 11/01/12

@TimB Timmy its all a political beat up by the Liberal Party and you know full well it is - Labor would do the same to the Libs. No evidence found by NSW Police and I would say nothing will be found by the VIC Police - it was all about getting the numbes to form government, now immaterial since your man Slipper “defected”  Ohh how sweet it is Timmy.

TimB says:

01:10pm | 11/01/12

It’s not a beat up Nossy. He did it. If you don;t believe the NSW police, there’s no point having this discussion with you anymore.

@ Tim, the fraud investigation is still ongoing. The evidence of *what* he has done (using the union card to pay for prostitutes) is indisputable. The question has become whether or not that action is considered fraud. That’s what VIC police are still looking into.

It’s not done and dusted no matter how long FWA drags out their side.

Claw cracker says:

01:13pm | 11/01/12

Nossy, you really are a deluded fool! Who raised concerns about Thomson’s alleged misuse of union funds? The Liberals? The union movement is the school of rent seeking and corruption that has spawned the most useless government in our history.

Yeah, you can defend Thomson but that makes you no better than that scumbag and you must feel proud to be in such company. But I suppose you need a hero to justify your pathetic ideology.

There is one in every village.

nossy says:

02:50pm | 11/01/12

@Claw cracker   now where did you crawl from fellow? Never seen you do a blog before - pity your first time mimicks poor deluded TimB of the Liberal Party!  hahahah Still nice to have some funsters on the blog Claw cracker - write another one tomorrow fella - before Mummy comes home that is!  hahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yuri says:

03:59pm | 11/01/12

@Nossy, since my first comment didn’t go through…

While there is every possibility that using a union credit card for prostitutes is not illegal, I would hope that it is at least against union policy. I also hope that Craig Thompson is held to account, and his moral character called into question for his misuse of funds and then lying about it (which has been verified by the police).

TheRealDave says:

09:02am | 11/01/12

Maybe because its a US Government mandated law applicable in the United States only? And this is an Australian news blog….

Bill says:

09:08am | 11/01/12

Because right-minded people think it’s a great idea.

SimonfromLakemba says:

10:24am | 11/01/12

Its a bit concerning. Makes the Patriot ACT look miniscule.

John Smythe says:

11:09am | 11/01/12

TRD, given our country’s propensity to to immitate all that is bad about America (see Reality TV), I would say it is still worthy news to Australians.

my guess though, is that our “news” sites are more focused on gimmicky sensationalist pieces, than anything truly news worthy.

The Works says:

02:11pm | 11/01/12

@TheRealDave, if a totalitarian military state having a permanent prescence on Australian soil doesn’t bother you then you are either very brave or very silly.

kenra says:

08:59am | 11/01/12

Tony had to fillet fish and put on a hard hat.

jay-ded says:

09:03am | 11/01/12

Planned holidays is a commitment really isn’t it?  Hell, if I had a family holiday planned and then was told about something else that I should probably go to, but wasn’t really necessary for me to attend, then I too would state that “Sorry, I have other commitments.”

He can show his respects without attending.

TheRealDave says:

09:06am | 11/01/12

Like visiting Diggers in Afghanistan, Tony had better plans…and it wasn’t until Big Jules dropped by to visit the troops that ‘Shit Happens’ Abbott raced halfway around the world to ‘get his war on’ and get a few happy snaps ‘with the boys’.

Queue the excuse machine

nossy says:

09:29am | 11/01/12

@sue if thats not bad enough sue when the floods happened he came up here to QLD , made soothing noises then went back home and OPPOSED THE FLOOD LEVY put on by the government to help the flood victims of QLD - disgraceful! Abbott is the worst leader of the Liberal Party I have seen in 45 years and all i can say Sue is “god help Australia if this weak bastard ever becomesPM!” And YES he is on holidays - PM Gillard was in attendance at the flood cermonies yesterday.

SimonFromLakemba says:

09:36am | 11/01/12

Where did you see that? Just did a Google search and nothing came up. He has form, he did bypass Afghanistan as he was “Jet lagged’ once before.

Anubis says:

09:51am | 11/01/12

@ Nossy - get it right buddy. The Flood Levy has nothing to do with helping out the flood victims. It has everything to do with bailing out a Government that was too arrogant to insure their infrastructure. BTW - Why is it that the Levy money is just sitting in a Qld Government account not being used?  It will be like the Ansett Ticket levy - not a cent went to assisting the Ansett workers to get their full entitlements, it all went into Government coffers.

nossy says:

10:04am | 11/01/12

@Anubis shame on you Anubis you goose - I have personally met many flood victims and they need all the help they can get to go forward - the Flood Levy is just another tool to help these unfortuante people - shame on you Anubis - get back in your little Liberal Party hole you “Abbottphile”.

sue says:

10:16am | 11/01/12

SimonFromLakemba
a google search will not tell you Abbott is on holidays, But a story on Gambaro being told off by the Acting Opposition Leader, Truss, gives evidence of the cover up.

Anubis says:

10:23am | 11/01/12

@ Nossy - you are clutching at straws nossy. The levy is specifically legislated as a levy for infrastructure rebuilding. As for me being an “Abbottphile” gotta laugh at that. The Mad Monk is just as ludicrous as the Red Queen. Neither of them should have access to Parliament House, let alone the keys to the Lodge.

Anubis says:

10:24am | 11/01/12

@ Nossy - you are clutching at straws nossy. The levy is specifically legislated as a levy for infrastructure rebuilding. As for me being an “Abbottphile” gotta laugh at that. The Mad Monk is just as ludicrous as the Red Queen. Neither of them should have access to Parliament House, let alone the keys to the Lodge.

Anubis says:

10:35am | 11/01/12

@ Nossy - clutching at straws there mate. The Flood Levy is specifically to bail out the Qld Governments lack of insurance on its infrastructure. When announcing the levy JG stated “the job of rebuilding essential infrastructure in flood-affected regions – which is what today’s announcement, including the progressive levy, is focused on.”  (JG’s press Release 27 Jan 2011 - http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/rebuilding-after-floods ) and from the ATO website “It is designed to assist affected communities to recover from the recent natural disasters by providing additional funding to rebuild essential infrastructure - for example, roads, bridges and schools.” Nothing about this going to assist the people who suffered through the floods and subsequent dismissal by Insurance Companies wriggling their way through loopholes to avoid paying out. Basically, the people can fend for themselves but JG will ride her white charger to the assistance of the arrogant (Labor) State Government that refused to insure their own infrastructure.

As for me being an “Abbottfile” I laughed so hard when I saw that. I have clearly stated on numerous occassions on this blog that I despise both the Labor Party and the Liberal Party equally. Neither the Mad Monk or the Red Queen are suitable to be leading the country and neither are the calibre of person that sholud be allowed within a km of Parliament House, let alone being enabled with the keys to the Lodge.

nossy says:

10:35am | 11/01/12

@Anubis   hahah well at least you clarified the “Abbottphile” comment Anubis - being the gentleman I am “I withdraw that comment Mr Speaker” and am in agreeance with you re Gillard - this counrty sadly lacks decent leadership and truly I have never seen in my 45 years of following politics such a vacuum of leadership anywhere I look Anubis - all good - your shout my good man! P.S. you dont live in Sydney do you - am moving there mid year and will make TimB’s life hell!  hahah

Anubis says:

10:42am | 11/01/12

Apologies for the repeated message - the Punch sioftware seems to be experiencing some difficulties today.

Anubis says:

10:51am | 11/01/12

No Nossy - don’t live in Sydney - tried it for a little while, decided the place blows big time and moved back to Queensland. I am now living in regional Victoria (mainly because I had to live in Melbourne for a while and decided that place blows big time as well).

Sydney’s a big place nossy - you might have some difficulty tracking down TimmyB, the self confessed six inch man (from yesterdays Open Thread - “TimB says:09:15am | 10/01/12 How does just on 6” sit on your radar ...”

Jade says:

11:50am | 11/01/12

@ Nossy, the flood levy does not go to flood victims. It is to help repair infrastructure that our lovely incompetent labor party failed to insure.

What is the flood levy?
The government has introduced a Temporary Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction Levy (flood levy) applying to taxable income for the 2011-12 year only.
It is designed to assist affected communities to recover from the recent natural disasters by providing additional funding to rebuild essential infrastructure - for example, roads, bridges and schools. http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/00216565.htm

The only help the flood victims received from the government was the payments centrelink handed out. The rest came from the disaster relief fund which was made up by donations (a piddly amount actually donated from the government was included in that). And still Bligh had the nerve to means test the people who applied to receive that money.

I am with Jay-ded on this one.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:01pm | 11/01/12

“Sydney’s a big place nossy - you might have some difficulty tracking down TimmyB, the self confessed six inch man (from yesterdays Open Thread - “TimB says:09:15am | 10/01/12 How does just on 6” sit on your radar ...”

Still makes me laugh Anubis..Lol..Gold

jay-ded says:

09:44am | 11/01/12

My snake “Bruce” shed this morning.  His skin went under a rock, through both eyes of a skull and then tracked up and over a bleached piece of wood.  It looked totally awesome.

Now Bruce is nice and shiny again. 

Babe in the Woods says:

09:58am | 11/01/12

@Amelia, well I get up around 4:30 each morning.  I take my little dog down the beach for a run.  I love to watch him capering around, listening to the water and watching the sky start to lighten.  Then at night once or twice a week, I sit on the sand, have a glass of bubbly and watch the sun set whilst the yachts bob around at anchor.  That is beautiful, that is lovely, and that is what keeps me balanced.  Hope someone smiles at you today, it always cheers me up!

Knemon says:

10:14am | 11/01/12

@ Amelia - I agree with your sentiments. I like to take walks through the forests near where I live, I sometimes talk to the trees (they sometimes respond in their own wonderful way) and sometimes I just hug them, just take in the beauty of nature around you and forget about all the woes of the world, it certainly helps me. Cheers.

Elphaba says:

10:15am | 11/01/12

Really?

Ok then. Family.  Friends.  Books.  Useless trivia (I love the look on people’s faces when I deliver a useless factoid).  Live music (truly, there is no better celebration of community than 40 000 people {or more!} singing the lyrics of their favourite songs).  Bromeliads.  Creamy pesto pasta.  Kitten videos on Youtube (do yourself a favour and look up Maru, or Oskar the Blind Kitten).  Making vodka slushies in the blender with Zooper Dooper iceblocks and Smirnoff on Christmas morning and then drinking them in the backyard inflatable pool.  Guitars turned up to 11.  Nail polish.  Mascara.  Scrabble.  25 degree days (not too hot, and not too cold).  Yoga.  David Attenborough documentaries.  Givenchy perfume.  My brother’s puppy.  9 to 5 workdays.  There’s more, but that’s a start.

Consider this, Amelia - is there more violence in the world, or is it just that you’re hearing about it more because we’re inadvertently plugged into instant news most of the day?  I reckon you’ll find it’s the latter.  People being horrible to one another isn’t a new thing.  It’s just you hear about it sooner, and more often.  Unplug.  Ignorance is bliss.

I did want to post an article I read either yesterday or the day before about a prison in Norway, or Switzerland, or Sweden, that is downsizing its cell numbers because there’s not enough prisoners, but I can’t find it.  Still, that’s awesome news.

Life is hard.  It’s supposed to be.  And life is full of horrible people.  But life is all about finding the little joys, and throwing your time and effort, and occasionally, a little cash, into them.  There is no ‘meaning’ to life - only the meaning you, the individual, place on it. 

Get rid of the people, and the sources, of giving you a down-in-the-dumps attittude, make a lit of all that is beautiful to you, and surround yourself with it.  It’s easy.  The rest of the world and its crap will melt away.

Bill says:

10:17am | 11/01/12

An early morning walk along St Kilda beach with my partner followed by coffee and brekkie from any number of fantastic cafes in Acland St.

Typical Liberal says:

10:52am | 11/01/12

More money.

John Smythe says:

11:43am | 11/01/12

jay-ded that’s pretty cool. My two boys mentioned they wanted pets, so when I asked them what they wanted, one said a pet mouse. the other said a snake…..the look on the younger boy’s face when I told him what the snake ate

Our fierce and mighty miniature pinscher is well loved by all though.

bec says:

12:07pm | 11/01/12

There is much to be happy about. I didn’t cut my foot in half today when I dropped the mower on myself. I feel there’s plenty of things to celebrate.

nihonin says:

12:23pm | 11/01/12

Knowing that people are depressed about the little things and being offended for those who are not, gives me a bit of laugh.  It’s your life, why waste it worrying over flotsam and jetsam.  Hopefully I’ll get some more laughs soon.

jay-ded says:

12:39pm | 11/01/12

@JS - Bruce is an awesome snake.  The up-front cost is a little high…

$600 for the enclosure
$100 for the red light and the light enclosure (snakes are dumb, they’ll wrap themselves around the light and fry themselves if you let them)
$120 for the Hide / skull / bleached beach wood, mats etc
$300 for the snake

After that you’re probably looking at $20 / 6 weeks for food in summer and $20 every 2 to 3 months in winter as they don’t eat as much then.

He is gorgeous though.  My son wraps him around his head as a bandana, runs around with him wrapped around his arm, gesticulates with his hands when the snake is wrapped around his arm - literally everything and the snake just laps it all up - hasn’t bitten anyone yet and we’ve had him for about 4 years.  They do live up to 30 - 40 years though, so it is a life-time commitment.

Jade says:

01:53pm | 11/01/12

@ Jay-ded the only reason I haven’t gotten a snake yet is the start up costs… I would love love love one! lol Not sure how my dogs would feel about it though and the OH would be a bit scared to touch it too I think (big tough man my ass haha). What type do you have? I was looking at a stimsons python, they seem to stay fairly small when fully grown.

Jade says:

01:55pm | 11/01/12

@ Amelia, you need to find happiness in yourself. You have plenty to be thankful for… the fact that you are alive, healthy (I assume), have food to eat, clothes to wear and a house to live in. You are doing a lot better than most people on this planet.

Things that keep me happy… my two dogs, my boyfriend, family and friends and the time that I get to spend with them all.

jay-ded says:

02:31pm | 11/01/12

@Jade.  The receipt I received from the Pet Shop stated that he was a Stimmy, but after looking at photos on the internet when he was a bit bigger, have come to the conclusion that he’s a childreni (childrens snake).  Most of the reptile books I’ve read state that the childreni only grows to about 80cm, but Bruce is over 130cm now.  Maybe it also has something to do with the length of the enclosure?  Mine’s about 4’ long.

Both the stimmy and the childreni make great pets.  The Stimmy is supposed to be a bit more active when younger, but they grow out of that.  Don’t worry about your OH.  I was a bit iffy about getting a snake too, but they’re soooo cool!  He’s a great pet.  You can even go away on hols for a week and not have to worry about them.  (So long as you have a water feeder setup.)

There are quite a few 2nd hand enclosures on the internet that are cheaper than buying from the pet shops.  The biggest cost to you then would be the actual snake.  Go for it Jade! 

John Smythe says:

02:49pm | 11/01/12

lol jay-ded, reminds me of a case here in Japan where a pet shop sold a snake to some guy saying it was one type, but after it bit him (and I think he died….or had to go to hospital at least!) they identified it as a similarly marked, but quite deadly poisonous one.

Got to love pet shops that love the black market for exotic animals.

There is(was?) one in aaa Senta-minami? (Yokohama/Machida area I think it was) that I used to take my kids to regularly. Point out all the endangered animals and illegal imports (blue tongues, frilled necks, cockatoos, galahs, frogs, alligators…etc. etc. etc.)

jay-ded says:

03:16pm | 11/01/12

That’s horrible JS.  I can’t understand people catching wild animals, sending them overseas (usually via the mail) and receiving money for it.  It’s just plain wrong. 

I spoke to the pet store owner afterwards about Bruce, but as he said, he only goes by the certificate that comes with the snake.  Most snakes when they’re young, you can’t tell what type let alone what sex they are. 

Wynston Cruso says:

05:11pm | 11/01/12

Puppies

I’m not referring to bbobs this time, promise.

Elphaba says:

10:18am | 11/01/12

Nom nom nom…

I’m filing ‘diamond encrusted high chair’ in the ICB pile.  Pics or it didn’t happen.

Jade says:

11:38am | 11/01/12

I just tried to find this diamond encrusted baby seat for you Elphaba but all I could find were toilets encrusted with diamonds, dummies, phones and skulls!

KH says:

11:49am | 11/01/12

I thought it was a swarovski chair, in which case its crystals, not diamonds…............

These people are so stupid - the only reason they are where they are is because they grew up having to work for everything - do they seriously think that spoling a child this much will make these kids decent people when they grow up?  More likely to get spoiled brats with a fraction of the talent their parents had, lurching from one rehab centre to the next.  I feel sorry for the poor kid.

Wynston Cruso says:

05:14pm | 11/01/12

What a completely arrogant waste of the Earth’s resources. This shit should be illegal. The kid will grow up to be a right prick is my bet.

SimonfromLakemba says:

10:15am | 11/01/12

hahahahahaha!

Way too funny Nossy!

Maybe their minister for Immigration could be David Barker with Karen Chijoff and her husband as deputies.

jay-ded says:

12:49pm | 11/01/12

Classic nossy. 

jay-ded says:

10:11am | 11/01/12

What did you put in your morning coffee FF?

fairsfair says:

12:03pm | 11/01/12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjvt6xqKwV8

I think I need a lay down Jay-ded.

jay-ded says:

01:02pm | 11/01/12

Hahaha - take a nanna’s nap FF then permanently delete that link you sent.

I would also suggest a shot of bourbon.
And possibly a joint (or two) - at least then you’d have a good reason to laugh when you looked at your thumb.

Slothy says:

02:14pm | 11/01/12

I’m sorry fairs, but he does! I can’t unsee it now.

On the other hand, I read this comment just before I went in to a ridiculously long and convoluted meeting. Everytime somebody gestured, I could only see their thumb and would giggle to myself at both the phrase AND the image of you losing it.

So sorry you look like a loon, but that was possibly the only thing that kept me awake through that horror show, so thank you!

Parlay says:

10:35am | 11/01/12

This the new world order the wanker PC lefties wanted - they got it!  Can’t wait till they are a victim.

nihonin says:

12:32pm | 11/01/12

Nick off nossy lol

Elphaba says:

12:58pm | 11/01/12

That’s very hippie of you, Nossy.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BWtz0E0nPak/TOM2Vf30tpI/AAAAAAAAAoU/qVhlNDuNZJQ/s1600/hippie1].jpg

Knemon says:

01:01pm | 11/01/12

@ nossy - I’ve said it before and I will say it again…The Punch would not be the same without your input…I love your work nossy. Cheers fella.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:09pm | 11/01/12

Look at the reply on top of Nossys comment..lol

nihonin says:

02:25pm | 11/01/12

Elphaba, is that Cheech of Cheech & Chong fame?

Elphaba says:

02:46pm | 11/01/12

@nihonin, no idea - I googled ‘hippie’. and that was a good pic.

bec says:

12:34pm | 11/01/12

I am looking at four years of full-time study (including three years for a PhD) after having already completed two undergrad degrees and some graduate education, so no. And given that the government has removed the HECS allowance, takes a bit of pressure off.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:20pm | 11/01/12

Or you could be like my ex boss and drop out at year 10 and make $250,000 every year in Real Estate.

I say this too all my friends, Uni is the biggest waste of time unless you want to become something specific - Doctor, Scientist, Lawyer etc.

If you add the $100,000 debt you are left with after all the study plus the 5 or 6 years of work you have missed out on, potentially I’m $300,000 or so better off.

Case in logic - i had 2 properties by the time I was 22, I tried Uni and hated the people there and environment so left and just worked, my friends most went to uni and are now only just working, starting at the bottom for graduates still living at home at 26.

Depends what you want from life? whats your goals etc

I think a lot of people go to Uni just to appease their parents.

Yuri says:

01:41pm | 11/01/12

I think that as long as you have a use/ career path intended for the study (or even just have an interest in the area of study) and are not moochinq off someone to pay for it, then go for your life.

At 23 I have a BEng and would like to get chartered status but don’t have the experience or professional development hours required at this point in my career. I have decided to do an MBA (by correspondence) in the meantime, mainly to keep my brain ticking over. Local government engineering can get very boring at times (hence The Punch).

To answer your question: If you get to the end of your working life and find that you have spent more time studying than working, and you still haven’t paid off your HECS debt; that is too much study.

bella starkey says:

01:45pm | 11/01/12

100 000 dollars debt is a lot of failed units

AFR - CA says:

01:45pm | 11/01/12

Sorry, a CPA? So you passed a multiple choixce exam, hey?

TimB says:

02:01pm | 11/01/12

Fully agree Simon. I too jumped right into the workforce right out of high school (ten years at the company this September, eek). I was a good student (when I put the effort in), but I was just sick of the constant stress and all the crap that comes with fulltime study.

Shortly after I started work, I began part-time tertiary education. Took longer, but it was less demanding & my company contributed to the costs. So instead of ending up thousands in debt at the end, I avoided the costs whilst simultaneously getting a decent pay cheque and hands-on experience in my field.

Now I have my own home and have things pretty good. Can’t say the same for many of my friends, many of whom still live with their parents in their mid-20’s.

KH says:

02:14pm | 11/01/12

Don’t waste your time on an MBA - they used to mean something (i.e. you had to already be in a management role to even do the course) - now they throw them around like confetti at a wedding.  An MBA gained immediately after finishing some other degree with virtually no business experience suggests that it isn’t worth the paper its printed on.

AdamC says:

02:40pm | 11/01/12

@Ben C, I think there is such a thing as too much education. Or, at least, too much vocational education, by which I mean degrees, etc, intended to advance one’s career. In the organisation I work at, just about every grad and junior is doing a Masters in something, even if they have so little decision-making authority they need to ask permission to go to the bathroom! I just don’t see the point: employers are looking for a combination of qualifications and experience. And, once you have been in a sector or industry long enough, the lattter becomes more important than the former.

@KH, MBAs were actually originally designed for executives and senior managers who do not have commerce-type academic backgrounds. As I understand it, there has been some debate in educational and HR circles as to whether most MBAs are much use for those who already have Bachelor degrees in accounting and the like. They do seem mighty popular qualifications, though. Every two-bit university in the nation seems to offer them now.

Ben C says:

03:23pm | 11/01/12

@ bec

Good luck with the PhD - what will you be doing it on? I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have the patience or attention span to be doing the research required, which is why I stick to coursework.

@ Simon and TimB

If I didn’t go to uni, I honestly would have no idea what I’d be doing today - probably still working with my dad in the family business (not that I can escape it anyway, but my day job gives me enough relief from it). I do still live at home, but I do own a couple of investment properties, so my own home’s the next move.

@ Yuri

Too true with your final point, however in 40 years if that’s where I am, I’ll definitely be cursing my lack of hindsight.

@ bella starkey

Yeah, not even a medicine degree costs that much.

@ KH and AdamC

The MBA was something that was discussed with another accountant who is a regular customer at my family business. Many years older than me, many more years experience - runs his own firm. For me, the MBA would be useful if I stayed in business services, or moved into the corporate arena. The Masters of Finance that I’m looking at now is to expand on my accounting base, because I chose a very limited Finance path during my undergraduate.

@ AFR

So the war begins!

I originally wanted to join the ICAA, however because my boss is a CPA (I’ve been working here since third year uni), it was much easier for me to do the CPA Program than find a CA mentor. And it was six multiple choice tests, thank you very much!

AdamC says:

04:02pm | 11/01/12

@Ben C and AFR, re the CPA/CA divide - why don’t they just merge already!

jay-ded says:

01:18pm | 11/01/12

You haven’t added your email address to facebook have you?

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:24pm | 11/01/12

It was posted to him, so cant see how an email address would help them in relation to where he lives?

Could be as simple as signing up to something over the net with your details, or I think you can get a random database of people details that organisations can use?’

Pretty scary though, imagine if an elderly person got it and wasn’t good with computers to check up on google.

iMitchy says:

02:20pm | 11/01/12

I considered the white pages but we are unlisted also. I reckon it might have been a lender. ANZ in particular. I remember them speedreading terms and conditions of a loan application over the phone and I just had to say “yes” right at the end - and there was a part about agreeing to ANZ “using my information” blah blah blah. But it was not a series of questions which I could answer individually - it was either “you agree to the terms or you don’t”.

I’d say they passed my details on to some market research mob who then passed them on and so forth. Each handover requiring a looser set of rules and restrictions in how they handle those records until finally I am targeted by an organised crime syndicate.

Gee, thanks for the loan…

John Smythe says:

05:08pm | 11/01/12

They all do it iMitchy. But there have been quite a few hackings of late. Sony Online and the like. Maybe in the theft of cc details etc. they also sell only the name and address, (ie. separately) as well as the cc info.

It is alarming they got name and address though.

I bought a book from a donation site (it was part of the donation process). I was expecting the site themself to send it to me, but the book was sent from the organisation in Africa that were the recipients of the donation. I haven’t donated through that site again. My donations (and especially the details behind the donation account) are meant to be confidential.

It was late at night, so maybe I missed that would be the case (would have used an office address instead). The people are doing a good job for young women in getting them educated.

Actually, come to think of it…don’t think I’ve read the book yet either!

Elphaba says:

12:40pm | 11/01/12

I think if someone has ticked a box stating they want to donate their organs, then that is the final say.

I don’t believe the families should then overrule.  Their family member has made their choice and it should be respected.

A person waking up after being declared brain dead is pretty rare.  Medical professionals should focus on doing all they can for a patient before declaring them dead, but just because it happened to a few people doesn’t mean it’s happening to every single brain-dead declared person.  Or that it’ll happen to you.

As always, the decision to donate one’s organs should be up to the individual.  Your decisions should be communicated.  But if someone is set on having their organs donated, I don’t think the family has a right to swoop in and change the decision because they find it uncomfortable.

Oh, and this:

“Now considering that all of these people would be dead today (medical murder)”

is a little dramatic.

RyaN says:

12:55pm | 11/01/12

@Elphaba: ‘I think if someone has ticked a box stating they want to donate their organs, then that is the final say.”
And if they had changed their mind and forgotten to remove themselves, the family are of course aware of their change in opinion to no longer donate but the hospital can still hack them up as they please?

“A person waking up after being declared brain dead is pretty rare. ” These above were ORGAN DONORS that woke up after being declared legally brain dead. These are the lucky ones that weren’t hacked up on the table while still really alive because their families intervened. Of course the statistics or organ donors waking up after being declared legally brain dead are rare because those that didn’t wake up in the extremely small window to save their own lives are now dead.

“I don’t think the family has a right to swoop in and change the decision because they find it uncomfortable.”
But you are perfectly comfortable with some stranger having absolute legal claim to a member of your families body whether they are alive or dead just because some medical “professional” has declared your family member as legally brain dead.

I would far prefer my family having final say than some dodgy doctor from an overseas country where their degree states that they are licensed to practice medicine anywhere but in the country they received the degree. Dr Death springs to mind.

Fact is, if my family cannot have final say then neither myself nor any of my family members will be organ donors anymore (actually I removed myself when these dropkicks started moving towards removing the rights of families)

RyaN says:

01:05pm | 11/01/12

@Elphaba: “Now considering that all of these people would be dead today (medical murder)” perhaps a little dramatic, considering that people dying due to doctors mistakes probably happens most days.

Elphaba says:

01:37pm | 11/01/12

@Ryan, I think the decision to make organs shouldn’t be taken lightly.  If you think you might change your mind, then don’t sign the form in the first place.

I read the links you provided, and yes, they are lucky cases.  But medicine is constantly evolving.  I would absolutely encourage doctors to constantly develop the checklists used to confirm that someone is brain dead, but doctors to the best they can with the funds and the knowledge available to them.  Medicine is constantly evolving.  One mistake does not invalidate the whole system.

My family and I have a philosopihical view of death.  When I go, I go.  Again, I have faith that the medical profession will do all that it can if something goes wrong.  I understand that mistakes happen.  I understand that gross negligence occurs, and there are legal steps in place to take care of that.  But if I’m dead and my organs can help someone, then cut ‘em out.  I don’t need them.  My family knows this, and we’re all in agreement that individual decisions will be upheld, because we took the time to discuss it at length.

Again, dodgy doctors do not invalidate the system.  Every profession has it’s problems, because none of us are perfect.

“considering that people dying due to doctors mistakes probably happens most days”

Thank you for proving my point.

RyaN says:

03:05pm | 11/01/12

@Elphaba: “My family knows this, and we’re all in agreement that individual decisions will be upheld”
This is fantastic, then clearly there is no need for there to be a law in place that excludes the families from having final say.

Shane From Melbourne says:

04:20pm | 11/01/12

@RyaN- What rubbish. The only person that has rights and a final disposition over their body is themselves. Not the family, not the government, not the doctor. This goes for organ donation, abortion, euthanasia or whatever.

Carol says:

05:48pm | 11/01/12

Shane,
You are correct, the only adult person who should have a say over their body, is the person themselves.
Take no notice of RyaN, having read his input over many months, I agree, he talks rubbish. “The rights of the families”, surely the rights of the individual are more important?

RyaN says:

12:22am | 12/01/12

@Shane & Carol: The fact is that I agree with you on the wishes of the individual, and who knows the wishes of the individual better, the family or the stranger in the hospital?

Regardless, this disgusting, fascist change in the law is stupid and without a doubt going to lower organ donation. I know that its now NO unless the family decides in our family and extended family, where previously it was yes on the say so of our family only.

Oh and Carol, thanks for the input for a change, at least you aren’t just reading now and might actually engage in conversation, it’ll probably be rubbish because I won’t personally agree with it but hey at least you will be contributing right

Shredder says:

12:46pm | 11/01/12

Its a great idea, Juan. I’d sign. The problem is the petition would only make it as far as a mailroom. It’d be looked at by a nobody who would most likely throw it in the rubbish.

TimB says:

01:04pm | 11/01/12

Moving people from there to here does nothing to help the countries that those people left.

I’m not sure if you’re just extraordinarily optimistic with little grasp on the reality of the world, or (quite possibly) trolling.

RyaN says:

01:07pm | 11/01/12

Check out South Africa or the UK for your open invasion policy results.

I am pretty sure I just got trolled though.

SimonFromLakemba says:

01:27pm | 11/01/12

Haha Troll? This should be interesting…......

Bill says:

03:46pm | 11/01/12

As long as you take in as many people as you can in your own home and support them with your own money.

If you aren’t willing to do that, then you are a hypocrite.

Jade says:

01:59pm | 11/01/12

I think it is because your hometown is the T-Bar… Enjoy the time with your family! lol

SimonFromLakemba says:

02:33pm | 11/01/12

I don’t mind going back To Canberra from Sydney, but back to Broken Hill is a shock to the system.

marley says:

06:34pm | 11/01/12

@James - well, I only go back to my real home town (Victoria, BC) every now and then.  No one there left to visit - my Canadian relatives are all on the mainland.  But I went back a year or so ago, just for a couple of days, to have a look around.  And I damn near cried. Memories of childhood, school days, first love, all that saccharine stuff.  It just felt like home, in a way that nowhere I’ve live in the 40 or so years since I left will ever feel. 

And this is going to sound really nuts, but the only time I’ve felt anything similar was the first time I flew into Wellington.  Same smell of the sea, same damp air, same feeling of greenery, similar clapboard houses.  It all felt so familiar, so natural. 

I think there’s just something about our earliest sensory experiences that stays with us for life, whether or not we know better (or think we do).

Shane From Melbourne says:

06:19pm | 11/01/12

I’m still recovering from the horror that the first Star Wars film to be 3D is The Phantom Menace…..

Anubis says:

03:29pm | 11/01/12

Hard to imagine any “culture or refinement” rubbing off on you Nossy. Your poor “lovely” is a bit deluded if she thinks she will find “culture and refinement” in Sydney though - more like “Playiong some toons on the iPad type of kulcha eh Britney, down by them refineries at Kurnell”.

So not really anything to rub off on you then nossy.

Ben C says:

03:54pm | 11/01/12

@ Anubis

Go and check out the Sydney Festival. Little bit of culture for you there.

Ah, who am I kidding? I’ll second Anubis’s thoughts nossy, not much culture and refinement that you’ll find here.