Punch on: Open thread 10/11/2011

S.L says:

06:32am | 10/11/11

Erick ole mate do you really think attitudes will change towards the employed, hetrosexual, white anglo male? I think you’re too smart for that!

jay-ded says:

06:50am | 10/11/11

The book should be an interesting read Erick.  I agree that the whole situation has become way out of control.  Some of the things I see women doing to their ex’s just beggars belief.  A new system needs to be put in place.  One that is fair to both parties.

Erick says:

07:02am | 10/11/11

@S.L. - Attitudes have already changed, and attitudes are still changing. What makes you think they’ll suddenly stop changing?

Erick says:

07:29am | 10/11/11

For anyone who’s interested, here’s a follow-up story about the radical feminist website that was featured on The Punch a week ago. Pivsters beware!

iansand says:

08:06am | 10/11/11

The world is changing and Erick and his mates don’t like it.  It must be a conspiracy.

Nathan Explosion says:

08:15am | 10/11/11

Y’all don’t know what it’s like
Bein’ male, middle class and white

maybe says:

12:50pm | 10/11/11

“hyperbowlic” really Erick? you think the word is refering to some kind of extra awesome bowling? Or perhaps you were after hyperbolic…

Erick says:

02:37pm | 10/11/11

@maybe - Evidently you’re unaware of the running joke about Julia Gillard’s mispronunciation of the word “hyperbole”. Well, this is an instance of that joke.

TimB says:

02:49pm | 10/11/11

@ maybe…Maybe Erickis well aware of that, and was making fun of Julia Gillard and her pronounciation of “hyperbowl”?

Hyperbowl (and it’s variations) get a good run here. Clearly you are new.

Anubis says:

03:02pm | 10/11/11

@ maybe I am pretty certain Erick was making reference to the illiteracy of the Prime Minister who is on record as pronouncing Hyperbole as “Hyper Bowl”

palone says:

03:09pm | 10/11/11

Erick. I honestly think that you should have checked ‘hyperbole’ before you stuffed up, and then tried to do a “I was only joking”. You are the epitome of the false pretender.

marley says:

03:35pm | 10/11/11

Gawd, some people have no sense of humour.  And yes, I do know that’s not the way to spell God.  I looked it up to be sure.

really? says:

03:45pm | 10/11/11

Erick, that “follow up article” you seem proud to be associated with is disgusting. You’re happy to be associated with men gang-stalking a woman online and offering a monetary reward for her real identity? What if someone does that to you, with all your well-documented views?

What’s the difference between that and trolling with rape-threats, as discussed here yesterday? Disgusting.

really? says:

03:50pm | 10/11/11

I’ve just had a look at your ‘crystallising theoretical basis’. What is the difference between this Men’s Right’s Movement and feminism? Aren’t they just two sides of the one coin?

Wouldn’t we all be better off talking about a “human rights movement”?

acotrel says:

07:16am | 10/11/11

@malohi
If you are referring to those little Yamaha four stroke V twins, I’ve often looked at them and thought they’d make a great project bike.  You could make them look like a full dresser Harley in miniature.  You might have trouble however if any of the patch gang guys saw you on it, they might think you were slinging off at them.
I have a theory that the only safe way to ride on public roads, is to keep passing the cars.  Then the silly moves are more under your own control.  The 250cc V twin is a bit underpowered.  I’d be looking for a Suzuki RGV250, or an Aprilia 250.

malohi says:

07:32am | 10/11/11

Is the word “aureate” considering the hints and the delicious golden picture?

malohi says:

07:47am | 10/11/11

My mum would die if i got a sports bike. I think if I show up with a riding jacket and a smile for her on christmas day I might get away with a cruiser looking bike.
BTW I always preferred the cafe racer look to the mini chopper/bobber, if I customise it will be in that direction.

Erick says:

08:04am | 10/11/11

I think a 250cc four-stroke is just too slow. As acotrel says, you need to be able to outpace the traffic at will.

I’d suggest some sort of 400cc general-purpose bike. But then I’m biased, having loved the Honda CB400N so much.

Andy D says:

09:02am | 10/11/11

Anyone who would suggest an RGV250 as a first bike does not have your best interests at heart.

JuzzyD says:

09:12am | 10/11/11

malohi, the Vstar 650 is learner approved, and the low centre of gravity makes it a good learner bike, it’s not especially heavy. However, I got rid of mine in under 3 months.

Things to consider, Cruisers put a lot of pressure on your tailbone. Sitting upright with your legs forward, you can NOT take some weight on your legs. Every bump and jolt from the road goes straight through your tailbone. Some people find them to be comfortable, others find cruisers cause horrendous pain after an hours riding. That’s me.

Cornering sucks. You WILL be putting hard parts on the ground, and often. It feels like you have barely tipped in before the pegs are scraping along the ground. 3 months was enough for me to grind off half of each peg.

A nice compromise is a sports tourer. Fully faired for protection from the wind and rain. Good bit of get up and go, and sporty enough to get down and dirty on the twisty roads without being so sporty that it’s painful on long rides. My current bike is a GSX650F, a faired version of the 650 bandit. Great learner bike, handles like a dream, and I’ve only touched hero knobs to the ground when I’m purposely pushing, unlike the cruiser.

Don’t make the mistake for buying a bike to appease someone else, you’re the one that has to ride it.

Tim says:

09:20am | 10/11/11

I wouldn’t get a cruiser for a first bike.
I agree with Erick that with your weight a 250cc 4 stroke is not going to be fast enough at the lights.
I know because that’s how I started.

Get something cheap until you’re on your full licence.

malohi says:

10:24am | 10/11/11

I have considered a sports tourer. I like the look of the cruisers though. I will have to try a few out to see how they feel. Thanks for the tips.

BTW anyone having more than one guess at the word is cheating.

Shenanigans says:

11:03am | 10/11/11

My first bike was a Kawasaki 650RL, was an amazing bike :p loved it to bits for the 2 years i rode it, till I sold it for a Ninja ZX-10R and holy fcuk does this one fly like a beast! Sounds sexy too. Although I have been riding since I was 9 so I guess I’m able to control a super sport better then most peeps. Still I recommend the Ninjas to anyone :p

Tim says:

11:11am | 10/11/11

Shenanigans *High Fives*
I love the Ninjas, fantastic bikes.

fml says:

11:45am | 10/11/11

Why couldnt he just go to the pub and drown his sorrows like everyone else?

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:32pm | 10/11/11

Hes just unique I guess

jay-ded says:

08:23am | 10/11/11

I’ve heard of Pulchritude but not pulchitrude…..

Just saying.

iansand says:

09:29am | 10/11/11

Pulchitrude is the what good looking one who runs a shop with Prue is.

Utopia Boy says:

05:08pm | 10/11/11

I would have said “delicious,” then ordered another one.

JuzzyD says:

09:14am | 10/11/11

The double down copped such a bad wrap for unhealthy it was. It had a good clap of dietary fat, truckload of protein, and made a damn good meal when eaten within a balanced diet.

TimB says:

09:32am | 10/11/11

That isn’t why it’s no longer available though. It was always a limited time thing.

I do hope it returns though by all accounts it was pretty popular. Didn’t like the original one (KFC’s BBQ sauce sucks), but the Zinger one was delicious.

Ben21 says:

11:07am | 10/11/11

For an Ectomorph it was a good cheat-bulk-meal, if you managed to get some good fats in as well.
I too hope they bring it back

fml says:

11:19am | 10/11/11

Woohoo before the clue too

Tim says:

11:29am | 10/11/11

fml employs the scattergun attack FTW.

fml says:

11:41am | 10/11/11

@Tim,

Shock and Awe Buddy, Shock and Awe. :p

The Spirit Of Australia says:

11:44am | 10/11/11

the word is “Shakespeare”.
Congratulations FML !
Has FML been reading FHM ?
Does FML stand for ?

John Smythe says:

11:49am | 10/11/11

hahaha well done FML!!

Dan, should have said that FML won, but not with which word!

fml says:

12:20pm | 10/11/11

Not going to say what fml stands for!

I like to keep a little bit of mystique, but its not what you think it is!

malohi says:

12:41pm | 10/11/11

well played fml.

fml says:

10:59am | 10/11/11

rapacious!

fml says:

11:05am | 10/11/11

Resplendent!

fml says:

11:06am | 10/11/11

refulgent!

Ok i’ll stop now.

Mark G says:

01:30pm | 10/11/11

rambunctious

Semi Concerned Citizen says:

10:43am | 10/11/11

Shen, Recently i was in surfers and theres a book shop named in your honour any connection? Also what rank in bf3? Class pref?

Shenanigans says:

11:07am | 10/11/11

No relations I’m afraid. I hit rank 35 last night, I’m also in love with the support class, M27 IAR is the best weapon by far!!!! I’m also partial to a bit of mortar spam :p

Semi Concerned Citizen says:

12:29pm | 10/11/11

ahh mortor spam :D on seinne good stuff that. Been smashing the engie. I need to play more only 23 or so.

Max, of Rocky says:

10:43am | 10/11/11

more like impotent   LOL

“satisfier of human desires”  man you must be in a sorry state, my desires are far more lofty.  (even at my age)

good sentiments beforehand though. 

nihonin says:

11:12am | 10/11/11

I was thinking the same Erick, good word.

fml says:

11:16am | 10/11/11

That is a pretty cool word, would be a good name for an isotonic energy drink

marley says:

12:29pm | 10/11/11

Oh I dunno. I don’t really have an issue with a tertiary-educated disability support worker with supervisory responsibilities getting a raise to $45,000, given that a Qantas baggage handler with no education or skills already gets paid more than that. 

I’ve always thought care workers were underpaid for the qualifications a lot of them have and the importance of the work they do, so I’m not very fussed about seeing a wage improvement.  I admit I’m not crazy about the gender argument that went into the ruling, but I think the actual decision is fair enough.

Adam Diver says:

12:39pm | 10/11/11

Whats another 2 billion on public services? I don’t even know why this issue had to become a gender one. Why couldn’t the issue be discussed on simple employment terms, i.e are care workers paid enough?

On a second issue, why is always addressed that others are paid more? Perhaps the issue is that other public servants are paid too much. The way these “debates” are framed always lead to only one conclusion, a fiscally detrimental one.

Erick says:

01:06pm | 10/11/11

Once again, an issue that has nothing to do with gender has been hijacked by feminists.

Tim says:

01:21pm | 10/11/11

Ah ain’t equality grand.

-Choose a low paying job in a low paying industry because you enjoy the work.
-Realise said low paying job doesn’t earn enough to afford the things you want to buy.

Now do you:
a) Leave your job and sacrifice job fulfillment for money
b) Engage in bargaining with your employer to get a better deal like every other industry
c) Claim that you’re discriminated against because you chose to enter a low paying industry and that it’s all part of a patriarchal conspiracy to pay women less than men even though the men in the industry are getting paid the same amount.
d) Whinge about how unfair everything is.

If you answered c, full marks. Half points if you answered d.

AdamC says:

01:45pm | 10/11/11

@Marley, can you really separate the reasons from the decision? These workers (both men and women) are now, assuming everything goes to plan, going to get a massive pay rise simply because a majority of those in the sector have certain sexual organs. That is ridiculous.

On the fairness of the wages and salaries point, I think you should keep in mind that many of the people who work in these sectors also received a large amount of altruistic satisfaction for doing so, which is why they have been willing to work in these jobs. Let’s not forget, many of teh workers in community services entered the sector in full knowledge that the wages were comparatively low.

@Tim, exactly. What is so grating about this case is that the self-interested carping and whingeing has actually worked spectacularly well. And they haven’t even been expected to justify the bitching and moaning. It’s just been enough that they can spin a silly narrative about being ‘undervalued’ because many of them are women. What nonsense.

marley says:

03:32pm | 10/11/11

Adam C and D, Erick, Tim:

I did a bit more reading on this and I think the situation is more complex than it appears at first glance.  While there is certainly a gender aspect to the decision, that’s not the only side to the “equal pay” argument.  It’s not even the main one.

As I understand it, the pay raise is for community-based care workers, to bring them up to the same salary levels that care workers in the federal public service and in the Queensland public service are already getting.  In other words, “equal pay” refers not to equalizing pay with male-dominated occupations, but equalizing pay with other people in exactly the same occupation.

The union did of course raise the gender argument, and the FWA did find that the low rates of pay in the sector were in part gender-related, but the real thrust of the decision as I understand it was that rates of pay for people doing the same work should be harmonized across the country - and that means, by and large, harmonized with the Queensland rates.

To take a step further back, though I haven’t gone into the Queensland pay decision in any detail, I gather the wage rates there for care workers were set after the government ruled that pay rates for employees in male and in female-dominated occupations who were doing comparable work should be equalized. 

So, what I’m saying here is that FWA decision on this wasn’t actually gender based.  It relied on wage rates already set by other bodies to establish the pay scale for public service care workers, and applied them to community care workers.

Whether the Queensland equal pay ruling, which seems to have been the pivotal point for the FWA decision, represented a “feminist hijacking” I leave it for you to figure out.

Tim says:

04:53pm | 10/11/11

Marley,
I know that FWA pretty much rejected the gender aspect but it didn’t stop the union and the PM still trumpeting it.
Also, I wouldn’t discount the political aspect of this case, a lot of pressure was put on the government to get this result.
The thing that really annoys me about this is they were comparing pay rates for jobs In different areas as if they were the same.
Care workers working for an NGO are not the same as a public servant even though the government is funding both. This was truly a case of people wanting their cake and getting to eat it too.

marley says:

05:57pm | 10/11/11

@Tim - oh, I agree the government and the unions used this to appeal to a certain demographic - ie women.  They need support from wherever they can get it.

I’m just saying the argument is a bit more complicated than a straightforward grab for money on the basis of gender.  Not that that isn’t lurking there in the shadows…..

As to why everyone in Australia should get the same pay for the same job regardless of where they live or who they work for, well, I can only say, Australia labour laws are a bit of a mystery to me.  I just don’t “get” the concept that there should be a body deciding wage levels across an industry, or that wage levels should be tied to the needs of a hypothetical work a century ago.

Incidentally, having just watched two TV presentations on the equal pay decision, neither of which got to the point that I made after 20 minutes’ research, I’m sort of wondering (a) why I’m paying for a newspaper and (b) why I don’t get a job as a journalist.