Punch on: Open thread 09/11/2011

Tim says:

07:45am | 09/11/11

LOL.
You were being ironic right?

neo says:

08:02am | 09/11/11

Gunning down civilians from a helicopter is pretty just innit.

joyk says:

08:46am | 09/11/11

Americans!! loudmouth , guntotting, i’m better than the rest of the world,and can do as we like Americans. Can’t control our own country, but want to control the world

SimonFromLakemba says:

08:52am | 09/11/11

They exsist

Trevor says:

09:05am | 09/11/11

HAHAHAHAHAHAH- you’re kidding aren’t you? Where did you get that from? Hollywood? Jesus.

Trevor says:

09:05am | 09/11/11

HAHAHAHAHAHAH- you’re kidding aren’t you? Where did you get that from? Hollywood? Jesus.

acotrel says:

10:00am | 09/11/11

@joyk
I think you are generalising :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmzmHffY6l4

palone says:

10:42am | 09/11/11

What a genius you are, denizen. What political acumen.
In one short, succinct comment you have been able to convince us that, (a) champions of truth, (Nixon, Clinton, both Bush’s), justice, (Guantanamo Bay, etc.), and democracy, (the great USA, where ‘everyone” is equal), are the cornerstones of the American way.
But wait. There is more. Not satisfied with all of the above, you go further and inform us that this ‘mighty fine’ nation also “supports the less needy”, i.e., those that are quite comfortable, by “giving aid where it is most needed”,(as in every crackpot, murderous dictator of every tin-pot African/Sth American Country who does the bidding of Uncle Sam).
You are right of course, but I think not intentionally so.
And can I throw in the afterthoughts? Like Iran/Contra, Noriega, drug lords innumerable, Idi Amin, Mugarbe, Gadhafi,
and,again innumerable, murdering, genocidal maniacs.
And this is the mob that Howard and Abbott and Co. signed us up, without our permission, to help. With our son’s lives.
Yes, written like a true Liberal, Mr Denizen.

Erick says:

01:28pm | 09/11/11

If you want to see true xenophobia, bigotry, and hatred, just mention “Americans” to a bunch of lefties.

SimonFromLakemba says:

02:01pm | 09/11/11

” If you want to see true xenophobia, bigotry, and hatred, just mention “Americans” to a bunch of lefties.

Replace Americans with Muslims and lefties with conservatives

Godwin says:

02:21pm | 09/11/11

“If you want to see true xenophobia, bigotry, and hatred, just mention “Americans” to a bunch of lefties.”

If you want to see true xenophobia, bigoty and hatred, just mention ‘Nazis’ to a bunch of ‘Jews’.

My point being Erick is that when it is warranted, dislike of particluar faults are none of the things you describe.

marley says:

03:13pm | 09/11/11

@Erick - actually, mention America to any Australian, left or right, and odds are you’ll get some sort of diatribe.  That’s not to say that America is fault free - far from it, nor am I in fact much of a fan of that country.  But some of the criticism is utterly uninformed and one-sided and I sometimes find myself forced into defending them (not a position any Canadian wants to be in, I assure you!) 

Yes, Americans have problems with their school systems, but yes, they produce more Nobel prize winners in the sciences than most of the rest of the world combined. Yes, their public health care system is a mess, but yes, they have some of the best hospitals in the world.  Yes, they have interfered in the affairs of other nations, often with aggression, and yes, that is the pattern of behaviour of every major superpower from the days of the Carthaginians. 

A lot of critics of the US need to put a little more perspective into their views of the country.  Sure, criticize them where its due, but don’t make up stuff or ignore the comparably greater faults of others.

Trevor says:

04:12pm | 09/11/11

Marley

“but don’t make up stuff or ignore the comparably greater faults of others.”

Who’s making stuff up? Palone’s points are all correct.

And this is a thread about the United States after all…

marley says:

06:32pm | 09/11/11

@Trevor - umm, okay. 

What did Clinton lie about ( a bit of nooky - but then you’ve got Sarkosy and Berlusconi on that one as well).  The Bushes, senior and junior - time will tell.  I haven’t found the Russians, the Chinese, the Indians or the Saudis to be any more honest or worthy of trust.

Guantanamo?  Yep, terrible.  Of course, the American Supreme Court ruled a lot of the court martials to be unlawful and the ruling stood.  How is Australia doing with mandatory detention? 

Support for tinpot dictators?  Sure, except for the ones the Soviets supported for 40 years (nobody was more tinpot than Ceausescu), or the ones the Chinese support now.  I suspect you’ll find that Zimbabwe gets a lot more support from the PRC than it does from the USA.  And I don’t recall that Idi Amin got a lot of American support - didn’t they cut off aid to him?  So far as I recall, it was the Soviets, not the Americans, who bankrolled Amin.

By all means, blame the Americans for things they did, and do, but don’t blame them for things other nations did and don’t invent stuff.

Max Redlands says:

07:13am | 09/11/11

Agree that the metric system is very impressive in the way it all fits together and corelates as your examples indicate.However, the metric system lacks the poetry of the old imperial system as exemplified by the picture at the top of the thread.

Also it can be a question of what you are used to or what you learnt first. Given I am of a certain age and notwithstanding we have had the metric system here for some time I still find it easier to estimate and menatlly viziualize quatities in the old money especially distant. e.g. I can say something is approximately 6 inches long without thinking but to express it in centimeteres I would have to first think of inches then convert it. Yards and metres are not so hard as they are almost the same.

I heard a mathematics expert on the radio over the weekend who had won an award for thinking of a metric time sysytem. 10 minutes in an hour - 10 hours in a day - 10 days in a week - 10 weeks in a month - 10 months in a year.

I couldn’t work it out myself (well not without a pen and paper) but apparently it is not far of the mark when measured against the natural definition of a year - the time it takes for the earth to travel around the sun.

Max Redlands says:

07:32am | 09/11/11

@ myself

“distant” should , of course, be distance.

iansand says:

07:52am | 09/11/11

12 is divisible (accurately and by eye) by 2, 3, 4 and 6.  10 is divisible by 5 and 2.  And an inch is about the length of a thumb joint.  In a non-mechanical age feet make sense.

An acre is (apparently - I’ve never tried it) what an ox and a person can plough in a day.  Something that any country person would be familiar with.  A hectare is something measured.

The same sort of thing applies for almost all imperial measures.  Metric only makes sense if you have measuring implements.  Which does not explain the US intransigence.

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/custom.html

marley says:

08:02am | 09/11/11

Gallons.  Even back in the days when Canada was still using imperial measurements, you still had to convert when you crossed the border into the US because they didn’t use the imperial gallon. 

And now that Canada has gone metric, we have to put KPH on all the speed signs because Americans see 80 and think its MPH.

neo says:

08:08am | 09/11/11

Using the measurement system from medieval Europe must have seemed a good idea to someone.

neil says:

09:21am | 09/11/11

Max Redlands, 10 days in a week - 10 weeks in a month - 10 months in a year. = 1000 days in a year, how did he propose to slow the earths orbit of the sun? I guess there is one advantage, I’m 50 at my next birthday but under that system I would be turning 19, unless he was planning to increase the rotational speed of the earth.

Ben C says:

09:33am | 09/11/11

@ Max Redlands

Going by what the mathematics expert proposed, we would also have to change the way angles are measured, since they’re measured in degrees-minutes-seconds. That is one massive overhaul.

acotrel says:

09:53am | 09/11/11

For about twenty years of my life as an industrial chemist, I carried the conversion factors between imperial, and metric measurement units in my head.  It must drive the Yanks mad, the rest of the world is metric.  The problem is that the aircraft industry is mainly American, and when the aircraft is American with the fuel gauge calibrated in gallons, and the fuel dispenser is calibrated in litres, there is opportunity for a stuff up.

acotrel says:

09:57am | 09/11/11

@Neo
The British used the imperial system, because the ancient Celts all had six fingers in each hand !

acotrel says:

10:07am | 09/11/11

@Iansand
‘An acre is (apparently - I’ve never tried it) what an ox and a person can plough in a day’

That measurement technique should be written into legislation.  I can just see the real estate agents doing that when they are selling cattle stations!

Max Redlands says:

10:14am | 09/11/11

@ neil - well of course the time taken for the earth to go around the sun is constant* so the actutal “time” taken up by a second would have to be adjusted

see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_time

* apparently not so constant - in this same programme I heard they explained because the earth is not perfectly round some years take a fraction of a second longer than others and leap seconds have been added to keep time measurement accurate

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second

Loddlaen says:

10:31am | 09/11/11

@Ben C - Radians?

gobsmack says:

10:58am | 09/11/11

So why do we flog quarts of coke in 1.25 litre bottles?

Ben C says:

11:35am | 09/11/11

@ Loddlaen

I’ll have to go back to school to learn that

iMitchy says:

11:51am | 09/11/11

@gobsmack,
With the 1.25L thing… Metric works in units of 10 but what about measurements between 0 and 10?

The large Coke bottles in Australia can be bought in quantities that will add up to multiples of 10L in volume exactly. (8x1.25=10, 5x2=10).
The 750mL glass bottles are rare in Aus these days but take their measurement from either Imperial or US Imperial.
The 600mL bottle might seem like it is so sized because it’s close to half a 1.25L bottle - not true. The 600mL measurement came to Australia in the 70’s after we had changed over from Imperial to metric. Many imperial measurements were rounded to a convenient metric measurement. At the time a pint of milk was 568mL. This was rounded to 600mL due to the size and shape of the bottles (dramatically changing the properties of the bottles would mean a full change out of all bottle handling machinery.

IMHO, I believe that the reason the milk was not rounded to 550mL is because customers would expect the price to drop as they would be getting less milk per bottle than previously. By raising the amount to 600mL, despite meaning a costly and inconvenient change in bottle size (not enough to have to change the machines though), the milk companies had an excuse to raise prices as they now provided more milk per bottle, had to cover the cost of upgrading the bottles and add into that a little opportunistic price gouging as not many would be bothered doing the maths.

bella starkey says:

12:08pm | 09/11/11

I measure everything in Furlongs per Fortnight.

maybe says:

12:33pm | 09/11/11

gobsmack, if we’re only getting a quart of coke in 1.25 L bottles, we’re getting jacked.

gobsmack says:

01:18pm | 09/11/11

My point is that one is forced to inconveniently ask for “a one point two five litre bottle of coke” because Coke Cola imported their US sized bottles which, in the US, can be purchased by simply asking for “a quart of coke”.
I believe spirits are still sold in 750ml bottles which, before metric, were 26 fluid ounces (there being 20 fluid ounces to a pint).

marley says:

01:41pm | 09/11/11

@Gobsmack - I think you’re wrong about the 1.25 liter bottles -  a liter is slightly larger than an American quart, and a 1.25 L bottle is something like 1.4 American quarts.  Remember, American quarts aren’t the same as Imperial quarts.

gobsmack says:

04:55pm | 09/11/11

@marley
Yes, I am basing my assumptions on the imperial quart (being 2 pints or a quarter of a gallon).  I also assumed that the US quart is a quarter of a US gallon (which I again assumed is the same as an imperial gallon).
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
The 1.25 litre bottle must have been determined by scientist working for Coke Cola to be some optimum unit of consumption.

neil says:

10:00am | 10/11/11

@Max Redlands, You missed my point, you can change the length of a second, minute and hour, and you could change the number of days in a mouth if you didn’t want to keep them approximately inline with lunar cycles.

But you can’t change the length of a day as that is determined by the rotational speed of the earth and you can’t change the length of a year as that is determined by the orbit of the sun so there can only ever be 365.256363 days in a year, never 1000.

iansand says:

08:02am | 09/11/11

They are mocked anyway, so why not do it?

I actually think the “World” Series of baseball is sillier, as there are actually other countries that play (Yes, I know about the World newspaper, but think I have seen that connection debunked somewhere recently.)

redvixen says:

08:12am | 09/11/11

Similar to the baseball (which I love).  They have the World Series Champions, but the ‘world’ doesn’t compete, just two teams from America.

marley says:

08:21am | 09/11/11

@Redvixen - sometimes a Canadian team gets in there too (go the Jays!) - but I take your point.

SimpleSimon says:

08:25am | 09/11/11

I love baseball (have played since I was about 4, and my brother plays for Australia/SD Padres) but the use of “World Series” is silly. Although such a huge percentage of the players in the MLB aren’t from the US anyway, so maybe it’s almost appropriate…

neil says:

09:25am | 09/11/11

Q: What do you call two Americans playing a game together?

A: A World Championship.

acotrel says:

10:03am | 09/11/11

@Redvixen
I love baseball too, especially when Trace Adkins plays it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmzmHffY6l4

TRBNGR says:

10:05am | 09/11/11

Can anyone name a domestic baseball team that doesn’t currently play in the MLB that could beat the St Louis Cardinals in a best of 7 game series?

Be sure to name your pitching rotation (with ERA and WHIP) and your starting line ups (with BA, Slugging PCT and OBP), I’ll check them against the stats for the current World Champs and we can see if there is a more deserved team to be named World Champions.

Max Redlands says:

10:22am | 09/11/11

@ TRBNGR - yes I get that point (as it applies to gridiron too) but as I say the AFL premiership team could also say they were the world champions -  it all sounds a bit hollow and self-aggrandizing.

Ben C says:

10:25am | 09/11/11

@ TRBNGR

You can’t be world champions when you haven’t played against other teams from other countries. I’m sure any number of Japanese or Korean teams would give the Cardinals a run for their money.

redvixen says:

10:26am | 09/11/11

Sorry, marley, forgot about the Jays.  Theoretically I was still right as Canada is in the continent of North America (but that was not my original intention). 

TRBNGR says:

11:43am | 09/11/11

@ Ben C

Like I said, name a team, provide the stats and lets see. That’s the game.

Total respect to Korean and Japanese teams (hell, even China is rocking out at the moment), but their superstars are fairly middle of the road when they hit the MLB with the odd exception here or there.

For the record, St Loius weren’t even close to the best team in the MLB (regular season) this year, so I think there could potentially be one out there.

Ben C says:

12:59pm | 09/11/11

@ TRBNGR

I don’t believe in comparing teams based on stats, especially averages - to use the Australian cricket team as an example, you could be Phillip Hughes, who scores 0 and 100 in alternate innings, or you could be Shane Watson, who regularly scores 50. They’re both averaging 50. Who’s the better player?

TRBNGR says:

01:27pm | 09/11/11

I wouldn’t want to continue an argument I was destined to lose either.

Your excused.

Ben C says:

02:37pm | 09/11/11

@ TRBNGR

The best way to settle such a score is on the field, not on paper. You know that, I know that. So I don’t see how you could say that I’m destined to lose this argument, if you could call it an argument.

TRBNGR says:

03:01pm | 09/11/11

So name a team. That’s the game.

Ben C says:

03:35pm | 09/11/11

@ TRBNGR

Chiiba Lotte Marines, Japanese champions of 2010. Or Softbank, currently the top-ranked team in the 2011 Japan Series. Put them against the Cardinals, best-of-seven series and the winner will be one step closer to being world champions.

Alternatively, have a World Club Championship for baseball, where the Cardinals can go up against the best of other countries’ baseball champions. They might still clean up, but until we see results actually played out, it’s all hypothetical.

marley says:

07:23am | 09/11/11

There’s nothing wrong with American spelling.  That it happens to differ from English spelling doesn’t make it wrong. (unless, of course, you’re talking about using Lite instead of Light - but then, that’s not unknown here in Aus).

As for the food, a nation which revels in meat pies and vegemite is not on strong ground in criticizing the culinary tastes of others.

neo says:

08:14am | 09/11/11

Look, different people like different flavors. Center your somber comment on something else, rather than generalizing.

Thing that gets me, surely some people of America knew how to spell words, so they purposely decided to spell them differently. Why? To be different?

JS says:

08:30am | 09/11/11

yeah tipping is the ultimate evil.

and they drive on the wrong side of the road.

Ben C says:

08:32am | 09/11/11

@ marley

There was nothing wrong with the original English spelling either. As neo said, was someone trying to be different?

Also, only in America:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/the-other-side/heart-attack-grill-offers-free-food-if-you-weigh-over-159kg-25-stone/story-e6frfhk6-1225953642973

iansand says:

09:06am | 09/11/11

neo - American spelling, with a few exceptions, retains older spelling that British English.  The US has stayed the same while the rest of us have changed.  Bill Bryson wrote a book called The Mother Tongue, which is an informative and entertaing read.

Willie Mac says:

09:19am | 09/11/11

marley, there is something wrong with American spelling, as evidenced by the fact their differences were mostly adopted in the early 1800s in an effort to be different from the hated British. Interestingly there was a movement to change to the metric system for similar reasons, but it never got anywhere.

Source: http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/metrics.htm

John Smythe says:

09:45am | 09/11/11

Just came back from 4 days in Oahu~~ First time in Hawaii, and also first time in America.

Driving was fine though I naturally seemed to drift (centre myself as from the visual perspective of being driver) to the right side of the lane a bit. Couple of times turning left, I almost subconsciously turned into the “right” lane for us….not for them

Tipping was confusing, and I just kept giving the valet a couple of bucks every time he brought the car up, apologising to him that it may not be enough.

As for the size thing..whoa! Went to get a large coffee….medium was more what I’m used to as large.

Was a good experience overall. Even when we traversed the island down the H3, turned onto H61 thinking we were just getting off to only have taken the wrong turn, and ended up right back where we started up near Kailua. Driving at night in unfamiliar territory…fun fun!

acotrel says:

10:11am | 09/11/11

@Williemac
Doan yoall disrespeck me now, ya hear !

acotrel says:

10:25am | 09/11/11

@John Smythe
About the size thing.  I was amazed at the size of the fruit in their supermarkets.  Our retailers would probably reject it as oversize.  It’s a strange ‘big is better’ mentality.  I saw an old cadillac a few days ago,- some things are so bad that they are good.  It probably only got about twelve miles per Australian gallon.  Nothing exceeds like excess ? I can just see myself wearing levis, big boots, and a cowboy hat, floating down the freeway past the oil wells on my ranch, in a convertible caddy !
I’ve been watching Trace Adkins on Youtube, and I think I’ve found my ‘hillbilly bone’ !

iansand says:

10:50am | 09/11/11

John Smythe - Satnav is a godsend.  It takes one stressor out of driving in a strange place on the wrong side of the road.  I too drift to the right, and find T intersections most problematic.  A tip is to say “driver to the centre” at each intersection.

iMitchy says:

11:14am | 09/11/11

To be fair, how many of you write “jail” as opposed to “gaol”? Be honest now…

The only thing that really ticks me off about the place is how taboo it is not to believe in god (in certain areas - California and NY are exceptions). The bible belt is pretty full on and inhabited by some very colourful characters indeed. Judgemental though.

But then, is any country as secular as Australia?

John Smythe says:

11:38am | 09/11/11

Too true Iansand. Except on this trip, we didn’t reserve the car ahead of time, and the one we rented didn’t have one.

Still was fun just driving around. Being a small island we knew we couldn’t get in too much trouble

bella starkey says:

12:06pm | 09/11/11

American Spelling was invented by Noah Webster who wanted to make things more simplistic and easier to learn.

He produced a book that set out how children should learn to spell:
http://www.merrycoz.org/books/spelling/SPELLER.HTM

Because of this Americans pronouce every letter in a syllable and have a reduced number of vowel sounds.

This is why most American’s speak as if they have a learning disorder, they were taught in a terrible way.

Lauren says:

12:54pm | 09/11/11

Re driving on the right hand side: you can blame the French for that, they influenced the Americans to copy them to piss the English off.

Elphaba says:

06:32am | 09/11/11

Wouldn’t Jesus turn the radiator fluid into wine?

TimB says:

07:36am | 09/11/11

Locusts. It’s in the bible.

Mahhrat says:

07:44am | 09/11/11

lol @Elph.

@Bec, get some prawns, wait for nightfall, put prawn under hub cap of car.  Enjoy.

ShamWow says:

08:28am | 09/11/11

Have you tried giving them a call or knocking on their door? I’m sure they aren’t being a nuisance just to spite you. You could take over a couple CDs for them as well, perhaps you can find a musical middle ground.

Michael says:

08:48am | 09/11/11

The music is loud, get a cordless screw driver, screw the doors shut with a few screws and set that whole shithole on fire.

Of course people will die there will be screaming and police, but your neighbours will have to have lights out early and no music after lights out for the rest of your life :p

acotrel says:

10:15am | 09/11/11

@bec
‘I nearly put sugar in their petrol tank’

I take it you don’t live next door to a chapter of the Hell’s Angels ?

ausspud says:

12:33pm | 09/11/11

@bec
Dont worry about it,seeing as they listen to Creed & Rihanna it wont be long before Jesus sends them to hell to burn for all aternity.

Max, of Rocky says:

12:48pm | 10/11/11

Put your stereo speakers in the window facing the neighbour and everytime they put on loud music put some music on yours real loud.  Music preferably as opposed to theirs as possible, e.g goto Vinnies and pick up an obnoxious Country and Western or Barry Manilow etc.

Worked for me, best of luck. 

Max Redlands says:

08:04am | 09/11/11

Still no sign of Bono?

Elphaba says:

08:21am | 09/11/11

Agreed Max, it’s not a real cause until Bono shows up.

ShamWow says:

08:35am | 09/11/11

Actions of a minority.

LC says:

08:58am | 09/11/11

They also sent some of the owners of those hotdog/coffee stands death threats.

But never mind that, Tony Abbott stood infront a banner stating “Juila Gillard = Bob Brown’s BITCH” at a recent right-wing protest. THE NERVE!!!!

Max Redlands says:

09:20am | 09/11/11

@ Elphaba

Perhaps he could (would?) tell them all they are wasting everybody’s time (including their own) and to go home.

Max Redlands says:

09:31am | 09/11/11

Maybe this Occupy phenomenon is simply a piece of world - wide perfomance art entitled, with apologies to Sam Beckett,

“Waiting for Bono”

Elphaba says:

09:36am | 09/11/11

@Max, I reckon the backlash from the ‘Make Poverty History’ campaign has made him a little cause-shy.  There was a huge difference in their concerts last year and the ‘Vertigo’ tour a few years back - much less banging on about social justice and more singing.

I think the fact he keeps his wealth where the tax man can’t plunder it puts him at odds with the protestors…

Elphaba says:

09:57am | 09/11/11

“Waiting for Bono”

Yes!  Love it!

stephen says:

06:18pm | 09/11/11

I’d vandalize a Republican’s car too if he had ten of them ... and the last hotdog vendor I bought off was lucky to get away with his life : $6.95 ... and lunch of the day was still moving.
And Erick, from now on you are officially the Punch Occupier Super Exposer ... POSE for your friends.

jay-ded says:

08:19am | 09/11/11

Oh My God! - Slouch Hat is correct!  hehe

neo says:

08:18am | 09/11/11

We use that format at work, because it arranges files in chronological order “by name”.

Bomb78 says:

08:49am | 09/11/11

Neo: glad to see I am not the only one that follows that naming scheme.

Direct says:

10:02am | 09/11/11

The XML date standard is a wonderful thing.

Mahhrat says:

10:04am | 09/11/11

You’re far from alone, Lord Chronos.

Most of my files now say 20111109 - Whatever The Hell It Is.doc

Really, really useful when organising meeting minutes.

braunman says:

10:34am | 09/11/11

Naming files like that is really handy, especially if you need to make/keep older versions of the same file.

Jade says:

11:01am | 09/11/11

We also use that method at work… 111109 - xxxx. Makes it way easier to find what you need!

Anubis says:

01:00pm | 09/11/11

@ Al - if you shouldn’t call them Blue what should you call them. I was led to believe that “Ranga” was offensive when referring to redheads - except maybe when referring to the Ranga-in-charge at the lodge.

andye says:

08:12am | 09/11/11

@adam diver - China has 20% of the worlds population. everything they do is going to dwarf us. the difference is illuminated in the fact that each australian produces a few times more carbon than the average chinese person, yet the changes in their production still make our totals look small.

the question is, are you ok with us being more selfish as individuals because as a nation we have a small population?

Ben C says:

08:41am | 09/11/11

@ andye

“everything they do is going to dwarf us”

Then why are we trying to do something about reducing carbon emissions (even though that something won’t actually reduce carbon emissions)? Isn’t it pointless, us doing something yet the world will still get warmer due to China’s carbon pollution?

Wasted opportunity says:

08:41am | 09/11/11

hahahahaha
assuming global warming is real.

You want the bolt blog over there————>
Go and be with the other dolts.

TimB says:

08:46am | 09/11/11

“the difference is illuminated in the fact that each australian produces a few times more carbon than the average chinese person, yet the changes in their production still make our totals look small.”

That would matter if we had a lot of people. We don’t, so your point is meaningless.

Per capita arguments are stupid. And I’ll tell you why.

Would you prefer to be robbed by:

A) 10 people who took $100 each from you, or

B) 1 person who took $200 from you?

Going by your per capita argument, you’d only be losing $100 per person with option A instead of $200 per person with option B. So tell me Andye, are you going to take option A?

Adam Diver says:

09:42am | 09/11/11

@ Andye, so you are happy for symbolism at a cost? Honest question BTW.

@ Wasted Opportunity, my bad,  I should of said assuming man-made carbon emmissions are the primary driver of increased temperatures

andye says:

11:58am | 09/11/11

@TimB - You make a confusing analogy. Look, the per capita thing makes sense. Would you look at the GDP of china and that of Australia and conclude that australians are far poorer than chinese? Sure, they have a lot more cash, but it is divided amongst a lot more people.

@adam diver - “so you are happy for symbolism at a cost? Honest question BTW.”

No. I just dont think we have a special pass to be more selfish than anyone else. We are a small percentage of the worlds population and we should pull our weight, whatever that may be.

Its similar to personal responsibility. I dont understand why conservatives are having a problem with that concept.

TimB says:

01:21pm | 09/11/11

“@TimB - You make a confusing analogy. Look, the per capita thing makes sense. “

Confusing to you maybe. The more intelligent among us know that this apparent climate change issue is based on *total emissions*. It doesn’t matter how many people caused it or where it came from. What matters is *exactly* how much CO2 is floating around out there.

“We are a small percentage of the worlds population and we should pull our weight, whatever that may be”

Our ‘weight’ is 1.5% of total emissions. Julia and Bob are advocating we cut 5% of that. So we are spending god knows how much money to cut a mere 0.075% of the world’s total carbon emissions. And whilst people like you pat each other on the back and spout gibberish like per capita figures, China completely negates what pathetic tiny negligible impact we may have made.

If we reduced emissions by 100% , and completely shut down the country tomorrow and China increased *their* emissions by a mere 5%, they’d have already made up for our reduction.

We are irrelevant. Nothing Australia does will matter. That’s what you fail so spectacularly to comprehend.

Mark G says:

01:54pm | 09/11/11

I would like to make one point here. Why does china not have a carbon tax? because they dont need one. China is a communist state. All their industry is ultimately state controlled. If they want to reduce carbon emissions they say ‘reduce carbon emissions’ and it happens. They switch to renewable energy. Its democratic countries that need taxes and incentives to reduce carbon output because the government has no direct control over private enterprise. Its democracies that need to impose a market system on emissions.

andye says:

04:36pm | 09/11/11

@TimB - “We are irrelevant. Nothing Australia does will matter. That’s what you fail so spectacularly to comprehend.”

I comprehend, but I disagree.

Our ultimate goal should be to have countries like China and India to join this endeavour. Everyone. Short of building a continent sized biodome around the nation, we are all sharing the same atmosphere. If we are using 3 to 4 times as much per person as china, isn’t it a bit rich to expect them to do cap theirs? If every chinese person produced as much carbon as an average aussie, that would be equivalent to 100% of the current world output.

The alternate policy of sitting around moaning and griping that it wont achieve anything… wont achieve anything.

Right now we are setting up to increase research in green technologies and financially motivating polluters to minimise carbon output. The policy doesn’t dictate exactly how this will happen, it is a market mechanism. It is also FUNDED unlike the other policy - which is also a hands-on big government solution.

Ultimately, though, it is about not being selfish jerks. We are using much more carbon than the average human, and we are affluent. Lets use our heads to help solve the worlds problem.

Or sit around and moan that nobody else is taking the lead.

TimB says:

05:48pm | 09/11/11

“If every chinese person produced as much carbon as an average aussie, that would be equivalent to 100% of the current world output”

And what do you think is happening? China’s emmissions ARE rising as their population seeks to obtain a better standard of living. Same with India. Nothing we do is goin to change that. The only way your point about per capita emissions would have *any* relevance is if *our* population was to grow rapidly to matych that of China. And that’s not going to happen any time soon.

China emits more than us now, and will emit more than us in the future. Fact. *They* need to act for any kind of actual reduction in emissions to happen.

But instead, you think we should spend a shitload of cash on making a token useless gesture, in some vain hope that it *might* guilt other nations to follow our lead.

Stupid.

Again, I would support a trigger clause in our legislation. In that it only comes into effect the second a certain portion of the rest of the world enacts similar legislation.

And we can invest in R&D for green tech without a carbon tax. If the technology is viable, it’ll succeed on it’s own. Just like every other technological development in the history of humanity. Not a single one needed a tax on it’s competetion to attract development.

This is a bad policy, a pointless policy, and a costly policy. And I question the intelligence of anyone who supports it.

LJ Dots says:

06:29pm | 09/11/11

andye - ‘the question is, are you ok with us being more selfish as individuals because as a nation we have a small population?’

So we have a small population with high per capita output and all the associated benefits that goes with that. My questions to you. Are you advocating that we should lower our standard of living or that China, Brazil and India should stop increasing their standard of living? Where is the middle ground that actually reduces emissions?

neo says:

08:30am | 09/11/11

It’s not just that, that’s fair enough. It’s more that they have no clue about the rest of the world.

SimonFromLakemba says:

09:15am | 09/11/11

Also the fact that they lecture the world about everything and anything yet do everything the opposite to what they preach.

Went want world peace ( support Israel, funneled weapons to Afghans, supported dictatorships, supplied weapons and money to Pakistan, illegals weapon sales to Nicaragua, left 1000s of Cubans to get slaughtered bay of pigs, left the Kurds to get massacred, helped spread fanatical islam through the CIA )

You must uphold human rights ( secret jail cells throughout the middle east, Patriot Act, immigration laws )

We are the best counrty in the world ( AA rating, 92% debt, 15% people in poverty, 3% of adult population in jail or on probation, 75,000 gun shot injuries and 1300 gun related murders in California alone )

There must be transparency ( for a 23yr period - AT&T $47.5 million, Goldman Sachs $35.7 Million, Cotogroup $28 million, American Bankers Association $29 million, JP Chase $23 million, Microsoft $23 million, Lockheed Matrin $20 million )

The list could go on with all the sex scandles etc

S.L says:

10:24am | 09/11/11

I admire American patriotism but hate how insular their society is. Only 10% of Americans have a passport.
The joke about how dumb yanks are can be attributed to their education system and media.
What I like about Obama is he is well travelled where in contrast Dubya had only been abroad twice before he became President.

Markus says:

05:52pm | 09/11/11

“Only 10% of Americans have a passport.”
After being there myself, this really isn’t that shocking a statistic.
They have 50 states, all of which vary very significantly in culture and even accent depending on their origin (Irish, French, Spanish/Mexican).

Accommodation, flights and food are very cheap compared to most other countries, and until quite recently a passport was not even required to cross the border into Canada.
As arrogant as it may sound, many just don’t see the need for a passport.

Markus says:

10:35am | 09/11/11

The SES are probably the one organisation I donate money to every time I see them, without fail.
I’ll pass on the wearing orange, but I will definitely go have a look for someone to donate to again today.

Jade says:

11:05am | 09/11/11

My shirt has orange on it I’ve done my part ^_^

Elphaba says:

08:09am | 09/11/11

Woo hoo!  I also notice Erick has got some articles too.  The madness continues!

andye says:

08:15am | 09/11/11

@TimB - Did you actually read the first article? Whatever you think about the protestors, they arent claiming to be the 99% of “the world”. the protests are about our western world. The article may present a new viewpoint on the place of these guys in the wider world, but it doesnt support the conclusion you made.

TimB says:

08:32am | 09/11/11

They protestors haven’t mentioned the ‘westen world’ at all’ Andye. They’ve just claimed to be “the 99%”. No conditions.

And I don’t really care, even if that is what they meant. They’re whining about life being so unfair, and making demands, when they’re still better off than 99% of other people on the planet. Any one of the *real* 99% would trade places with the ‘poor oppressed masses’ of the fake 99% in a heart beat.

So I’m going to stick with my original thought: They’re self-entitled wankers.

ShamWow says:

08:43am | 09/11/11

Why so much hate on the occupy movement? You must know that the majority of the protesters aren’t in 300k debt because they wanted a Jag right? The media is doing a great job of highlighting the whackjobs, like they always do, in order to discredit the cause. It would be good to hear from some protesters who have their head screwed on…but that wont sell papers.

Elphaba says:

09:17am | 09/11/11

@ShamWow, I don’t hate them.  I love them.  I never want it to end.  Ever.  I’m having a love affair with the news again.  It’s pure entertainment.  About freakin’ time, it’s offered precious little for a while now.

Ben C says:

09:38am | 09/11/11

@ ShamWow

No, they don’t have the $300k debt because they wanted a Jaguar, they just want the Jaguar without having to pay for it.

ThatOneGuy says:

09:47am | 09/11/11

@ShamWow
What I find hillarious about the need-a-shorter-name-than-“People-Opposing-the-Occupy-Movement”. Is the critisms generally boil down to “Self-entitled”, “Lazy”, “Whack-Jobs” and “Delusional”.

Does no-one remmeber the hippie movment?

JuzzyD says:

11:53am | 09/11/11

Ben C, I don’t want the Jaguar at all, but if I did, I want the chance to work for it. I want the established wealth of the world to stop acting as a limiter to my own ability to make a start.

I think that’s the general gist of the occupy movement, and I see their point to a degree. No one expects to have everything handed to them. No one expects to be on the same footing at 25 as someone at 50 who has worked all their life for what they have. What makes it intolerable is the truthfulness of the old saying, you have to have money to make money. Previous generations and large business are using established wealth as a barrier to those who want to work hard and establish their own wealth.

Look at housing for gods sake. I earn above average wage, have a decent deposit saved, and the only debt I have is a modest car loan. I went to a calculator the other night, to see what sort of figure I could borrow. Put in $300k, the price of a fairly cheap unit/apartment. I was told I don’t have sufficient income to support that loan. As a single, I’m locked out completely.

TimB says:

01:05pm | 09/11/11

“Look at housing for gods sake. I earn above average wage, have a decent deposit saved, and the only debt I have is a modest car loan. I went to a calculator the other night, to see what sort of figure I could borrow. Put in $300k, the price of a fairly cheap unit/apartment. I was told I don’t have sufficient income to support that loan. As a single, I’m locked out completely. “

No you aren’t. You just need to lower your expectations. I’m single. I don’t earn an above average wage. I only had 10K saved for a deposit. I was still able to borrow enough cash for a decent 2 bedroom flat. And this was post GFC, when the banks were severely tightening their credit terms (i.e no more 100% mortgages).

And when I went hunting for units, there were plenty going for well under $300K, including my own. At a guess you’re looking for something shiny and relatively new and/or close to the city. Sorry, you’re going to have to compromise.

I would say tt’s not the evil wealth holders locking you out. It’s your own sense of entitlement. Learn to compromise.

Elphaba says:

01:14pm | 09/11/11

@TimB, that’s a good map.  They’re warning more storms this afternoon.  Luckily, A Feast For Crows arrived today, and my iPod is charged.

“puts battle face on* 

Ready!!

Elphaba says:

01:31pm | 09/11/11

@TimB, thanks for that story, you’ve buoyed my spirits.  I earn below average too.

Mum and I have been chewing over future options for me.  Next year - begin share portfolio, and saving for a deposit.  I’m going to buy a place somewhere well out of Sydney and have some nice little tenants pay it off for me.

And if that isn’t possible, I’m going to invest, invest, invest.

Tim says:

02:00pm | 09/11/11

TimB,
sorry but I’ve got to call bullshit on that.
Even on a $250k loan, someone earning the average wage of $60k would be spending nearly half of their pay on their mortgage.
And $250k will only get you a tiny unit in the back of nowhere.

Mortgage stress is defined as spending 30% or more of your income on housing.
High expectations have nothing to do with it.

Ben C says:

02:31pm | 09/11/11

@ Juzzy D

Lower your expectations. If I can buy a unit for under $250k in Sydney, on an income of just over $50k, and with credit card and car debts of $40k combined, there’s no reason that you can’t.

TimB says:

02:44pm | 09/11/11

“Even on a $250k loan, someone earning the average wage of $60k would be spending nearly half of their pay on their mortgage.”

And? So?

A quick rough calculation shows that such a person would be earning about 47-48K a year after tax. That’s a shade under $900 a week.

Spending half of that a week on a mortgage leaves $450 a week to live off. That’s more than the base pension.

If you can’t live on $450 a week when you’re single, you’re clearly spending too much money on unneccessary stuff. Sacrifices are going to have to be made.

And FYI my 2-bedroom flat cost me $215K. It’s a good size & I’m close to transport, shops, etc. It takes me all of 30-40 mins max to get to work on the train. It can be done.

Everyone wants to live in the best suburb with the nicest property, and wants to be able to have all the mod cons and gadgets and holidays etc etc. It’s not going to happen. People need to start being realistic.

Ben C says:

03:11pm | 09/11/11

Just wanted to clarify my earlier post: I haven’t bought said apartment, but I have spoken to a mortgage broker, who has confirmed that I have the capability to buy an apartment for around teh $250k mark.

Laura says:

03:38pm | 09/11/11

I used to be a city dweller, working in the CBD and taking an hour to travel 12km to work. Hubby and I got sick of paying for someone elses mortgage. looked at our options and decided stuff it lets go bush.

Bought a house for 70k got a job with local government. Although you don’t get paid as much in regional areas, the money you save on paying interest and a massive mortgage well makes up for it. I travel 40km to work and don’t actually have to fuel up as much as I am not stopping and starting in stupid traffic.

I have community, I can leave the front door open and the car unlocked. When my Dad recently passed away I was so shocked at the support I got from the whole town with flowers and cards.

The local school only has 30 kids and 3 teachers, try getting that kind of student teacher ratio in a suburban school.

those whinging about not being able to afford a mortgage. Do something for yourself and stop whinging. Regional Australia needs professionals of all sorts. Get a life.

Tim says:

04:40pm | 09/11/11

TimB,
Did you read the part about mortgage stress being more than 30% of your income?
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean we should do it. Or for that matter that it’s right.
A person on average wage spending half of their money on a tiny apartment is ridiculous.

TimB says:

05:37pm | 09/11/11

“Did you read the part about mortgage stress being more than 30% of your income? “

I did. And I call bullshit on that defnition. Mortgage stress only exists if your splurging the other 70% of your income on frivolities instead of spending/saving wisely.

For the record I *am* spending half my income on my mortgage. That’s a little more than I have to BTW.  In the two years Ive had my mortgage, I’ve knocked an extra 8 years off of it from extra repayments. I’m about 7K ahead on my repayments, and I have 2K stashed away for emergencies. I have no credit card debt and am paying all my bills on time. I still get to go out when I want to, and I have *still* have enough cash left over to continually add to my DVD and video game collection.

And all on a below average wage. With an above average wage like JuzzyD’s, I’d have an even easier time.

“Just because you can do something doesn’t mean we should do it. Or for that matter that it’s right.”

I’m not saying anyone should do it. And it’s not ‘right or wrong’. It’s a choice. JuzzyD claims he’s locked out of the property market. I am living proof that he isn’t. If he chooses to get in, he can. All it takes is a little sacrifice and smart budgeting.

“A person on average wage spending half of their money on a tiny apartment is ridiculous. “

You keep making this claim that it has to be a tiny apartment. It doesn’t. Mine isn’t. Again choices come into play. If you don’t expect it to be a hiny new apartment, or within bike riding distance of the city, you can get quite a decent sized apartment for that money.

To reiterate: it’s all about choices. No-one is being repressed by the evil wealthy “1%”  , no matter what the “99%” claim.

Ben C says:

08:26am | 09/11/11

@ Elphaba

“Unless they used all the money to actually buy the bid…”

I call Captain Obvious on that one.

neo says:

08:32am | 09/11/11

Hahaha, Cityfail, that is gold.

Loddlaen says:

08:37am | 09/11/11

I had to switch trains at Hornsby to get to Strathfield. Getting on the train, the guard cheerfully announces that this very train was hit by lightning 20mins earlier and we are travelling along the stretch of track where it happened. A real confidence boost!

TimB says:

08:40am | 09/11/11

Northern/North Shore line? One of the guys in my office was complaining too. It took him 5 hours to get home to the Central Coast.

I’m not sure if the Western line was affected. I came down with a nasty headache and upset stomach yesterday afternoon and went home early, so I avoided any potential issues.

Actually does anyone know the exact time the carbon tax passed the senate? Maybe I was reacting to something. A disturbance in the Force perhaps.

Elphaba says:

08:57am | 09/11/11

@Ben C, I wouldn’t want to be running around on that field now, that’s for sure.

@neo, you’ve never heard that?  What about Shittyrail?  I could have used that too…

SimonFromLakemba says:

09:18am | 09/11/11

Yep, took me an hour and a bit to get home that usually takes 35 mins, the heavy rain and humidity didnt help things either.

Elphaba says:

09:18am | 09/11/11

@TimB, yes.  I won’t say where I live though.

Ben C says:

09:29am | 09/11/11

Yep, good old ShittyRail.

TimB says:

09:56am | 09/11/11

Good call Elphaba. You never know what mangy furry weasle will follow you home .

Also a map of the ShittyRail network:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060109050614/uncyclopedia/images/4/4d/Sydneyrailmap.jpg

Adam Diver says:

11:24am | 09/11/11

@ TimB, at the risk of souding like an idiot, I don’t get that picture. How is it funny (assuming that was the objective)?

TimB says:

11:41am | 09/11/11

Adam, it’s just exaggerating what a mess the network is .

The Epping-Chatswood line in 2057 is a nice touch.

Ben C says:

11:53am | 09/11/11

@ Adam Diver

Serious question: are you from Sydney?

JT says:

01:04pm | 09/11/11

I am so glad my dad drove down 1.5 hours from the Central Coast to pick me up last night and take me back up, took a little over 3 hours but at least I got home before 11

fml says:

10:05am | 09/11/11

Damn straight,

I been up at 4 am for the past couple of days, yesterday i even got into work before my alarm clock went off!

Sucks to that.

jay-ded says:

10:45am | 09/11/11

@fml.  Hope you have a good supply of nerf bullets.  If you need some spares let me know.  Always happy to oblige another gun-toting pissed off person!

fml says:

11:47am | 09/11/11

Cheers Jay-ded, i could do with some!

Wouldn’t mind a beer also.

Is it the weekend yet?

ausspud says:

12:16pm | 09/11/11

Jay-ded
I guess you should of had just one beer yesterday
And please dont go all postal on us,if you need to take out your anger you can use me as a punching bag(above the belt of course) :-(

jay-ded says:

12:52pm | 09/11/11

Thanks ausspud.  But I broke a fingernail last time I tried punching someone.  Can I use you as a kick-bag instead?  I’ve been working on my head-high slapping kicks.  They would be truly awesome if I could keep my balance. Must be the beer intake.  ~

@fml.  You provide the beer and I’ll provide the nerf bullets - Oh Yeah!

iansand says:

09:13am | 09/11/11

I saw part of the David Attenborough Life On Earth documentaries in the US.  They only used his voice when he was on screen.  Everything else was dubbed with an American voice (and, I think, considerably dumbed down).

Adam Diver says:

09:47am | 09/11/11

@ iansand, thats scary.

I will add the american Kath and Kim to that list as well.

Loddlaen says:

10:36am | 09/11/11

And the short lived American Red Dwarf. Turning Lister into a clean cut, 6 foot tall dude with blonde hair and blue eyes…

JT says:

01:14pm | 09/11/11

@Loddlaen - so true, the reason Lister was so funny was because he was a no hoper, Rimmer is my favourite though, Chris Barrie = yum

John Smythe says:

01:57pm | 09/11/11

I’m with you on that Ian (the dumber down bit). Very few TV shows hold to good viewing these days. Look at some of the extremely crappy dialogue in some of the CSI shows (can’t remember specifically which version of the lot it was…but ALL the characters strut about posing if they were some cardboard cut-out…) The way the lab scientists need to spell everything out to their assistant who just walked in, or some other person.

Shouldn’t need explanations every.step.of.the.way….....makes for very boring TV.

(though after having said that….I’ll have to cop the egg on my face for missing Palone’s witty little piece below /facepalm!)

fml says:

02:32pm | 09/11/11

@JT

Crush rimmer??? ewwwwww

Ace or regular?

Laura says:

03:47pm | 09/11/11

my major pet hate too. They seem to steal all the brilliant gritty pommy shows and remake them when they are perfectly good.  They say it is because of the accents, bit really they just want to passit off as their own brilliance.

Recent examples are Shameless, Skins, Being Human and Misfits.

Mark G says:

01:13pm | 09/11/11

Trevor,

Are you just looking at things and saying you hate them.

I hate Lamp.

Trevor says:

02:05pm | 09/11/11

Sorry Mark, I don’t quite follow.

I suppose points 1 - 8 (just realised that I F*ed up the numbering after that) all represent the corruption of democracy by big business and money, but they are all atrocious when you examine them closely. Especially the kiidie pagents…

John Smythe says:

11:46am | 09/11/11

3 meters to a yard? 3 feet to a yard maybe, and 1 yard is just shy of 1 meter. But, other than that, nice play on words.

Are you the real palone?

Ben C says:

12:00pm | 09/11/11

You sure you got that correct? Three metres in a yard?

Ben C says:

12:02pm | 09/11/11

Surely you mean three “meters” - water, gas and electricity?

palone says:

01:03pm | 09/11/11

Okay John Smythe, ya got me. I ‘fess up.
There are, as Ben jerried, 3 ‘meters’ in my yard, my 2 feet are usually in that same yard. The four furrows are in my forehead, (worrying about you guys), and that gives me a face a mile long.
No kilo of metres, but as long as pig’s trotters, (pt’s) are sold by the pound, (hence the rather high-math reference), you can have ‘pounds of ‘em, hence, lb/pt. And thanks John for the ‘play on words’ bit, but I nearly blew it by referring to a “pun it” of strawberries. Glad I didn’t.
It is Wednesday fellas.  Thanks.

John Smythe says:

01:10pm | 09/11/11

Damn…looks like we both screwed up the spelling! Nice observation BenC!!

will have to tip my hat to the play on words…I read a little too literally there. Seems I overlooked “in one” and “that same” as the hints they should have been.

Trevor says:

03:01pm | 09/11/11

Do it. I’d love to hear the self-indulgent posturing that they come up with.

If this planet ever needed an enema, it would be inserted through the United States of America.

jay-ded says:

01:30pm | 09/11/11

Nice one ausspud.

You also forgot
Charlie(Who?)Sheen

ausspud says:

01:52pm | 09/11/11

To me
And Al Gore

Trevor says:

03:52pm | 09/11/11

Karl Haushoffer is alive and well!

Wynston Cruso says:

04:07pm | 09/11/11

newstainment - it’s not a war crime if you win the war

newstainment says:

04:32pm | 09/11/11

When was winning war about bombing innocent civilians?
These people are gutless.
They control people’s economies so they can’t defend themselves let alone live out of poverty and go and slaughter them with high tech weapons.
And if a country does get rich and able to defend themselves they strangle their economy and block them with sanctions and stuff like the puppet un. Before probably threatening them with nuclear weapons and forcing them to step down for the good of the entire planet because they know the US are probably dumb enough to use one again.

fml says:

02:30pm | 09/11/11

Is that a reality tv show?

newstainment says:

02:13pm | 09/11/11

We don’t hate the people, we hate your corporation government. But there is resentment that you let it happen; but all western nations are guilty of that. The people need to take control again. Americas quest for money, resources and power has seen millions of innocent victims; far more then osama, hussein and gaddafi combined (plus any other one you want to chuck in). I don’t hate you but I certainly do not respect a lot of you; because I see so many supporting such terrible things.
Anyway thought I would clear that up because too many people generalise when it comes to politics; and everyone is different.

jay-ded says:

02:15pm | 09/11/11

Na Pamela V - We’re Australians - we who come from the land down under enjoy taking the piss out of everyone and everything, including ourselves.  Don’t take it too personally.

Pamela Vizuete says:

08:53am | 10/11/11

There is much that I would change about my country.  I am ashamed of the way so many of us are more concerned with what a “celebrity” is doing than what our children are doing.  The whole of idea of “no child left behind” has reduced our public school system to such a degree that it now produces the most mediocre of results…children who have no desire to excel and will perform minimally for their entire lives.  They will produce children of same level, if not lower, and call this “satisfactory.” 
I hate the government as well.  It is filled with elected officials who pursue their personal agenda and are in the “business of staying in business”, meaning unlimited re-election, resulting in abuse of power and promises made but not kept. The corruption extends to the very core.  The government grows bigger and more corrupt with each passing day. 
I am grateful that at age 61, I, at least have lived long enough to enjoy the times of prosperity and pride Americans took in their nation.  My most fervent prayer is that I might live to the U.S. restored to its past goodness.
You are right when you say we interfere.  We have become a nation without conscience.  And yet…though I state “we”, it is not all Americans.  You hear the worst from the media and believe it is the whole rather than the part.  The problem is that the “silent majority” (those that view it as I do) are not in power and from the looks of it, we may never be again.  We’ve been “asleep at the wheel” while big government has become the driving force that has taken power from the people and left us with little of our beloved constitution.  Our rights are being stripped from us even as I write this post.
I was blessed with parents who were careful to instill values and teach me the history that they had experienced.  My father told me that he had great pride in serving during WWII alongside Aussie soldiers and I have always identified with the similarities that gave birth to both of our nations. (Full of piss and vinegar both- Americans and Australians)  In a more perfect world, I would live to see that genuine sense of comradeship once more.

palone says:

02:56pm | 09/11/11

You’ve done it again, Anna C. You must have been listening to Abbott, the Rhodes Scholar, (a gift from Rome), who consistently mis-pronounces place names.
Melbourne should certainly be pronounced “Melborn”, with a longish ‘r’.
Brisbane should properly, and understandably, pronounced, “Brisbane”, (no ‘y’ needed, except for the illiterates who don’t understand that the ‘e’ at the end demands the ‘ane’), so I guess you have once again got on the wrong tram.
I guess the carbon legislation got to you, Eh?  Are the conservatives upset because Abbott never got his Carbon Tax that he many times said was the way to go, but instead is forced by the Goverment to abide by their Legislation which doesn’t mention the Word!, Abbott’s choice, a great big Tax!  Howard wanted one too. So the Feral Ferret and the Rabid Rabbit both got rolled. She’s too smart for this lot, Anna C.
Isn’t she.

fml says:

03:31pm | 09/11/11

palone,

Not that AnnaC needs or let alone wants me to stand up for her, but thats a bit harsh, aye?

stephen says:

06:23pm | 09/11/11

My ‘hole’ just plays hotair.
Is yours now whistling dixie ?