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    • M says:

      07:07am | 09/08/12

      What’s with everyone getting offended over facebook memes these days? Surely there are more important issues to tackle? But I suppose there’d be a lot of clicks from the perpetually offended and the morally righteous who seem to inhabit these sorts of sites. C’est la vie I suppose.

      In other news, my Ibanez arrived the other day. I hope I offend someone with my screeching and tortured practice and they start a meme on facebook about it. I hope it’s an offensive one.

    • Mahhrat says:

      08:25am | 09/08/12

      @M:  There are whole careers in being offended.  I believe a line does need to be drawn, but it’s when words translate into action that I have an issue.

      WBC for instance crosses that line, because they act upon their bigotry by protesting funerals.  People who spout off to no end online do not cross that line, because it’s easy to avoid.

      Remember everyone, real heroes walk away.

    • I hate pies says:

      08:56am | 09/08/12

      It’s just another excuse for people to push their barrow. If we got rid of interest groups PC would disappear

    • Glady says:

      09:36am | 09/08/12

      Facebook is publishing, just like a website or a newspaper. Why people can’t understand that, is beyond me.

      I have been watching the comments of some of my ‘friends’ on Facebook who feel it’s fine to link public policy to the cultural background of the Qld Premier’s wife.

      it should be illegal. It should at least be a sacking offence (the ‘friends’ are in the communications sector, you’d think they’d understand defamation and racial vilification a bit better than they do).

      But most of all, it’s hurtful. And that’s why we should never make a comment about a person’s race or cultural background.

    • che says:

      09:59am | 09/08/12

      What the F is a meme???? I was wondering that all day yesterday, I am so out of touch!

    • M says:

      10:18am | 09/08/12

      it should be illegal simply because it offends?

    • Inky says:

      10:26am | 09/08/12

      @che

      Basically, it’s an online trend or injoke. lolcats are memes, Rick Astley’s “Never Gonna Give You Up” is a meme, going into unrelated threads on the punch and mockingly blaming it on the Carbon Tax? actually a meme, technically.

    • che says:

      10:37am | 09/08/12

      Thanks Inky. Lol @ Rick Astley:)

    • fml says:

      10:48am | 09/08/12

      It’s not illegal,

      But then again forum is not a forum for free speech, you would know that if you read the rules and regulations when you signed up.

    • fmlh says:

      11:30am | 09/08/12

      Sorry that should say facebook isnt a forum for free speech.

    • M says:

      12:20pm | 09/08/12

      The only thing that facebook really doesn’t seem to like is nudity. Apart from that, it pretty much is a free for all until a media outlet gets a hold of whichever page they’ve chosen to rail against that particular week.

    • James1 says:

      01:19pm | 09/08/12

      Facebook is not a government organisation and does not owe anyone free speech.  Their community standards are quite clearly outlined in the community standards page, found here:

      http://www.facebook.com/communitystandards

      If you violate those standards, expect to have your content removed.  If you do not want to conform to the community standards, you can always remove yourself from that community.  If you want to view the removed memes, there are plenty of other places to do so which do not have the same community standards as Facebook.

    • simonfromlakemba says:

      01:48pm | 09/08/12

      M

      Is right with the Facebook police.

      There is a page on Facebook against the Aboriginal Memes page and it has roughly the same ‘likes’ as each other. So some good to come from it.

    • Ed Ator says:

      01:53pm | 09/08/12

      Since news corp have started towing the Combat line Facebook has looked more like a newspaper than the old dying mastheads,money talks

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      03:05pm | 09/08/12

      Aahh fml is back.

      Any racist language for us today ?

      I need some rage to fuel my body to play Babmington tonight, you using racist words I’ve not heard since the 80’s usually does it.

    • Ellis says:

      07:23am | 09/08/12

      How do you deliver the NBN on time and on budget?

      Simple just rewrite the business plan to meet reality. Marvellous stuff.

      We told you so. And this is the “best” rewrite they could do. Tjis is an unmitigated disaster already. I can’t wait for the next election so we can get the real numbers after Abbott is PM. They will make sensational reading. Should be a hoot to compare it to the high school business plan they released to justify a spend that violated their own rules on infrastructure projects.

      Brings a tear to my eye as I recall Carr doing the same thing to the Sydney train network. Just redefine what a late train is and voila!!! - the network runs on time.

      Genius planning by Labor.

      How is that North West train line going by the way? You know the one that Gillard and Keneally promised. How is that lie going?

      Labor…........pathetic and indefensible.

    • TimB says:

      08:15am | 09/08/12

      You mean there’s been a blowout? Oh dear. I am completely shocked.

      If only someone had seen this coming and spoken against the madness.

    • Darling Fascist Bullyboy says:

      08:48am | 09/08/12

      How could it have gone so wrong? Conroy and Rudd planned the NBN in meticulous detail on the back of a napkin. Both have extensive telecommunications business experience and acumen.

      Renationalising industries is normally a huge success because governments can run them more efficiently as they don’t need to worry about making a profit.

      What went wrong this time?

    • nihonin says:

      10:21am | 09/08/12

      Darling Fascist Bullyboy, ‘What went wrong this time?’

      One word…...........Labor.  It’s a good colloquialism for stuff up.

    • Ian1 says:

      01:31pm | 09/08/12

      @Ellis -

      “How is that North West train line going by the way? You know the one that Gillard and Keneally promised. How is that lie going?”

      Surely there isn’t an Australian left that believes a Gillard promise is worth taking to the bank?

    • andye says:

      03:41pm | 09/08/12

      @ellis - OMG BLOWOUT!!!!!

      Have you been involved with many tech projects? The changes aren’t quite a blowout, mate. Estimates are estimates and if you expect them to match the reality exactly on any project every in the history of projects you are dreaming. The “contingency” on most estimates of tech projects is a lot more than the NBN adjustments.

      Also, you forgot to mention that the uptake by users was of higher levels of connection that anticipated, which is actually a good thing and could lead to earlier repayment of the loans from NBN back to the government.

    • Dash says:

      03:51pm | 09/08/12

      @Ellis - Federal Labor are not putting up the money for the rail link because they argue that it was only for the Epping to Parramatta link. They refuse to allow that money to be put into the more needed north west link because….....yep, North Western Sydney is blue ribbon Liberal territory. No votes in it for the ALP and no swinging seats!

      That’s the way politics works. Stuff what the right thing to do is if there is no short term gain for the pack of crooks in the Labor party. They prefer to pay Craig Tompson’s legal bills and allow their builder mates to rip off taxpayers funds than provide the infrustructure needed in one of the fastest growing sections of the nation.

      The ALP has been ignoring that part of Sydney forever!!! Carr allowed people driving into ALP seats to claim a toll rebate. But if you drive the M2 into North West Sydney - yep a different rule applies!

      If you’re dumb as dogshit living in an ALP seat, the federal government wants to throw money at you! If you work hard and pay loads of tax, they have a target on your back.

      The ALP is inept and completely corrupt! The only people left voting for them are clearly on their gravy train!

    • Kerryn says:

      07:29am | 09/08/12

      Mother Nature hates me.  -2.5 degrees when I got on the pushbike this morning.  Thankfully only 9km ESE winds to make it feel more like -6.1 (according to Elders), nearly got blown off the bike on Monday by strong winds.

      On the plus side, my waistline loves me.  And the huge appetite I had as a teenager is starting to make a comeback…I might be able to eat a whole meal without feeling ill soon!

      I guess one thing that really gets me is one of my fellow employees.  We went to school together (same grade) yet he’s barely hanging on to his job as he’s a [expletive] lazy [expletive], while I’m doing very well and am very well respected around campus.  It’s annoying that on top of our work, we now have to clean up after him too.  Just goes to show that you can’t generalise about a generation…or about anyone really.

    • Mirror says:

      07:30am | 09/08/12

      Wait, where’s the story about men winning the olympic gold, the tears on the keyboard…

    • Wade says:

      07:33am | 09/08/12

      Maybe the childless PM would be able to give us her expertise on the matter of milk for kids….....not.

    • Arnold Layne says:

      08:13am | 09/08/12

      On a site that regularly posts ridiculous posts, this has to be one of the most ridiculous ever.  Well done sir.

    • sunny says:

      12:21pm | 09/08/12

      Not a riduclous post at all Arnold. Do you think Gillard feels guilty about spending her $600,000 per year for life pension on herself for not getting her job done?

    • sunny says:

      12:59pm | 09/08/12

      Post under your own name, my evil twin. That’s not a bad idea, you can call yourself “evil sunny”.

      And BTW I think it’s a ridiculous post, what is it with people who take the moral high ground just because someone else doesn’t have kids.

    • Mouse says:

      02:12pm | 09/08/12

      hahahahahaha sunny(real).... welcome to the dark side…. this seems to be what a few ignoramouses are doing at the moment.  Be honoured that they fear you that much!!    lol ;o)

    • sunny says:

      03:39pm | 09/08/12

      Mouse, yeah that’s not a bad way of looking at it - I’m like a modern day hero and they’ll stop at nothing to take me down ..or maybe I watch too many movies smile

      I’ve noticed Chris L has been getting the evil twin treatment a lot lately, among others. I’m no IT guru but I reckon the Punch should have optional user accounts and with an account you can reserve a screen name, but if you haven’t got an account you can still post a comment under a non-reserved name. So Punch IT team if you’re listening ..actually when I think of the Punch IT team I picture Anthony Sharwood’s chicken as the lone IT tech support dude trying to solve seven different people’s computer glitches all at once, feathers flying everywhere..

    • Arnold Layne says:

      03:59pm | 09/08/12

      @evil sunny.  That’s even more ridiculous.  At least Wade kind of alluded to the topic!

    • The Blogger Usually Known As Chris L.... 1 says:

      04:22pm | 09/08/12

      That may not work Sunny. My theory is that our reality has collided with an alternate reality where our sinister other selves exist. That would mean your evil self would have a similar access to the evil Punch, which will have melded with this site.

    • sunny says:

      04:48pm | 09/08/12

      Well @Arnold Layne I didn’t even want to wade into the argument (if you’ll forgive the pun) in the first place, but then saw that someone (the first post under @sunny) had posted the opposite of what I think on the subject using my screen name. Hence my suggestion that the imposter use “evil sunny” as a name from now on (but I forgot to make it official and tell him/her to bugger off). And after being forced into commenting (second post under @sunny) to clear that up, I actually did allude to the topic when I said that people like Wade have no right to claim the moral high ground just because someone else has no kids. This is all pretty good fun actually smile

    • sunny says:

      05:30pm | 09/08/12

      @Chris L - yeah you’re right I forgot all about the colliding alternate reality theory. But I’m wondering now if I can make the best of a bad situation and somehow get my sinister other self to mow the lawn and help with the new retaining wall. And when they’re finished that they just pop back into that other evil dimension again.

      BTW cool idea for a name you’ve got there.. The Blogger Formerly Known as Chris L. Prince would definitely approve. You could do what he did and just go by a symbol instead of a name.

    • Chris L says:

      05:47pm | 09/08/12

      @the real Sunny - I think Arnold Layne was talking to the Evil Sunny.

    • sunny says:

      07:51pm | 09/08/12

      Oh shit you’re right. My bad, sorry @Arnold. Damn you evil sunny!! smile

    • Inky says:

      07:59am | 09/08/12

      I know I had a mini rant a couple of days ago, but I’m thinking I need to get out of customer service. I’m getting a little tired of the unrealistic expectations. Add to that the myraid of problems that I am powerless to solve in my current job, it’s all very tiring.

      But as much as I’d like a career change* I’m not really sure what industry I have a hope of getting into. I’m not willing to move and turn my life upside down at this stage and my qualifications are pretty limited.

      *Hah, career change, that’s funny. You call this a career, how sad?

    • M says:

      08:23am | 09/08/12

      Become a life coach. It seems to be little more than people paying you to give them positive reinforcement.

    • Chris L says:

      08:27am | 09/08/12

      It’s never too late to become a rock star Inky.

    • Inky says:

      08:53am | 09/08/12

      Hah, thanks iansand.

      @M It’s a nice idea and all, but how would one get started in it? Ultimately, I basically have all the qualifications, pretty works without actually doing anything? Sounds like my current job, but not by choice.

      @Chris L - It is if you play Saxaphone. Well, in theory one could get in on a Ska band, but I find most bands around don’t treat their horns like people, part of the reason I gave it up.

    • Chris L says:

      08:59am | 09/08/12

      PISS off fake Chris L get a life you tosser!

    • Chris L says:

      09:25am | 09/08/12

      LOL! The guy following me around and trying to take over my identity is telling me to get a life!!!

      Thanks for the laugh! grin

    • Mouse says:

      09:28am | 09/08/12

      Inky, what do you WANT to do?  Do you want to work in a customer focussed job, or a “get your hands dirty”  manual job, or something completely new that you have never tried before? Look outside the box, maybe be a bit daring and work towards your career change. Stay where you are at the moment, I mean you have to be able to pay to live until you can move on, and give it some serious thought and checking out on the internet. You may surprise yourself with what you can come up with.  Bon chance mon ami!    ;o)

    • Inky says:

      09:41am | 09/08/12

      @Mouse

      Yeah, I’m not about to jump out of here and try to get a job without any income to support myself. I’m not really a dirty hands kind of guy, manual jobs are not for me. Around december I applied for something in Consumer Affairs because I liked the idea of working in a role where I got to solve people’s problems. Which is largely why I’m so dissatisfied here, can’t fix a thing.

    • voxg says:

      09:47am | 09/08/12

      Inky, don’t worry. Just join the Liberal Party. They’re the ones that get about 34% of the national vote come election time. They’ll love you.

    • Sally Q says:

      12:26pm | 09/08/12

      Chris L the laughing one. I think laughing is an uncomfortable sign of guilt. Stop acting like a fool and get a different handle.

    • Chris L says:

      01:11pm | 09/08/12

      @Sally Q - Whereas swearing and name calling must be signs of integrity in your book, eh? So how many different names do you like to use? I’ve been using the same one here for a couple of years now.

      This gets funnier with each post!

    • Sailger says:

      01:44pm | 09/08/12

      Chris L the laugher, one minute you’re angry and want an ISP trace the next you think it is all funny. Don’t sound too stable to me, maybe you should get some help. You don’t own the Chris L moniker and neither does the other Chris L so really it is your fault for choosing a common handle/name. I personally don’t think this is funny as you come across from all this doppelganger BS looking like a twat, my personal opinion, not going to blame you for getting mad about this view but it is just a honest statement on how I see it.

    • Chris L says:

      02:25pm | 09/08/12

      @Sailger - You’re talking about when I suggested we could compare IP addresses? Did I sound angry to you? I thought it sounded like an obvious way to respond to this person’s continual claims of being “fake”.

      You know, with the way you write, and the pointless name calling, you sound familiar. Have you ever posted here before? wink

    • James1 says:

      02:26pm | 09/08/12

      I’m pretty sure Sally Q is also fake (ie. “not laughing”) Chris L.

      Don’t worry real Chris L - the regulars know you are the real one.  I certainly remember reading your incorrect, left leaning, yet oddly endearing posts for at least 18 months, and I have been around The Punch since before Erick showed up.

    • Chris L says:

      03:01pm | 09/08/12

      Thanks James1. Your ability to walk the right wing without being infected by the zombie virus that has claimed so many others is a source of great respect from me grin

    • Mouse says:

      03:03pm | 09/08/12

      ChrisL, don’t let them get to you, they are obviously jealous!  It seems very strange that now the fake Chrisl, who has only been alive for a couple of days-ish, already has a fan club for crying out loud!  What a hoot!!!  LMAO :oD
      Maybe if we ignore them they will evaporate like the lovely LesleyW did. It’s worth a try anyway…  X X (That means “fingers crossed btw)
      Tehehe   ;o)

    • Sally Q says:

      06:51pm | 09/08/12

      Why am I a fake? Just because my view is different? Chris L the laugher hasn’t much credibility and he does have sock puppets of his own bidding to prop up his madness. Let us do the IP check and call your bluff.

    • Ellis says:

      08:08am | 09/08/12

      Working as intended…........

      Terry McCrann on the $4.6 billion blowout revealed yesterday in the revised NBN business plan:


      ” WE are going to spend $63.8 billion to build and operate Stephen Conroy and Kevin Rudd’s National Broadband Network out to June 2021.

        But we’ll get back just $23.1 billion in operating revenues over that time. The difference - a tad over $40 billion - will go straight on the national credit card…

        It’s worth adding that these numbers make, of course, the arguably heroic assumption that everything whirrs along seamlessly from this point…

        As at June 30, it had 14,000 (customers), and only 4000 of those were actually connected by the fibre…. Those customers generated just $2 million of revenue over the entirety of the 2011-12 year.

        And to get the $2 million, ‘operating’ the NBN cost $521 million. Over and above, the quite separate build cost…

        Revenue is then projected to go ahead in leaps and bounds after that. To $120 million in 2013-14, to $529 million the year after that.

        On the other hand, operating costs also rise. To $1.8 billion in 2013-14, to $2.9 billion the year after that.

        On the NBN’s projections, revenue only catches up with operating costs in the 2017-18 year. By which time the operating deficit has added to nearly $10 billion.

        Plus we will have spent another $27 billion by then actually building the network. With more spending to come…”

      But think the benefits! Australians will load movies faster!

    • Chris L says:

      08:23am | 09/08/12

      If you think the only benefit will be faster movie downloads your imagination needs some exercise.

    • M says:

      08:32am | 09/08/12

      So you’re calling the project a failure despite the fact that it’s only been rolled out to a fraction of households so far?

    • Inky says:

      08:44am | 09/08/12

      Hi Ellis

      It seems you’ve posted a new post, when you really should have replied to your earlier one. Please do not continue to create new posts, it clogs up my open thread with your drivel, it would be much easier to pretend you don’t exist when you’re contained to one nasty little section

      Sincerely,
      Inky

    • I hate pies says:

      09:04am | 09/08/12

      Yes, think of all of those rural businesses that do a dozen transactions a day; wow they’re going to save minutes!
      Seriously, there is no justification for the cable to go to anywhere outside major cities. I can understand the rational for the NBN in our capital cities, but its a massive waste of money for the rest of the country.
      Can anyone give me examples of the benefit of the NBN outside our capital cities? Bear in mind the vast majority of businesses sell goods or services, and are not transactional based.

    • Mahhrat says:

      09:13am | 09/08/12

      When you say “Revenue”, do you include revenues from the taxes of e-businesses?

      My father is connected to the NBN (and holy hot damn is it sweet), and as a result now runs his own e-business with mum.

      He pays taxes and whatever on that income, of course, and because it’s at home, and because it’s online, he’ll probably continue it well into his 70s (he’s just about to turn 60).

      Don’t you people understand?  This is a 50-year infrastructure plan.  It’s going to take a decade to fully roll out, and it’ll be another decade before we make a profit on it.

      Business invest like that, but on much smaller scales, and they don’t panic every time there’s a set back because the idea is still sound.

      When two baby boomers can successfully run a small business from their home now, what do you think big companies around Australia will be able to achieve in service and online industries?  We build the tech, we build the knowledge base, we own the internet’s high-tier service industries.  It is exactly the kind of thing a small (population) country like us can excel at.

      We cannot compete with 2nd world economies with cheap labour for manufacturing, so let’s not try.  That means we need backbone infrastructure to get modern.  This is the NBN. 

      The only reason we’re not a backwater cesspool right now is minerals in the ground.  We are bringing in outsiders to take away the only thing making us money.  We are a first-world nation with a 3rd world economy. 

      Fuck arguing this irritates me, because it should be as obvious as the nose on your face.

    • DJ says:

      09:51am | 09/08/12

      great post Mahrat - I remember the nay sayers in Perth when the Mandurah railway was goig in, yes it ran over time and budget but it has delivered.

      Ellis, TimB and their kind would have been the same ones arguing against the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Snowy Hydro, they are called conservative and not progressive for a reason.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      09:53am | 09/08/12

      @I hate pies - if the NBN is only rolled out to major capital cities it entirely defeats the purpose of the project, and eliminates the benefits. It’s an incredibly short sighted attitude, not unlike the comment to which we are replying.

    • I hate pies says:

      09:59am | 09/08/12

      Mahhrat, I don’t think it’s the principle that most are arguing against. It’s the absurdly large cost that we’ll be paying for decades that irks people. It’s as obvious as the nose on your face that it could be done far more efficiently and cheaply for the same impact on the country.
      There’s far more wrong with our economy than not having fast internet too.

    • MattyC says:

      10:11am | 09/08/12

      Not worth arguing Mahhrat

      This joker posted twice in this tread already and obviously has a cross to bear against the NBN.

      My only hope that the brains in the Coalition realise the this needs to be built and dont scrap it next year.

    • Economist says:

      10:38am | 09/08/12

      From my perspective and I’m no expert I’d say the following.

      Firstly the concept of fibre/satellite to every home is a good one and something the market if left to it’s own devices wouldn’t necessarily deliver.

      Secondly, if left to the market only you’d have Telstra rolling out fibre, then you’d have Optus rolling out fibre in the same areas chasing the same markets doing the same, you’d effectively have duplication etc. This is fine but the fact is you’d still pay through the nose for the service.

      Thirdly I think criticisms of the way the NBN is being rolled out are valid, in that it isn’t being done cost effectively, it’s being done politically, a focus on regional areas first and foremost, that’s my understanding. Personally I don’t object to looking after rural cousins, but I can’t defend the strategy as cost effective.

      Fourthly, the problem is that it is being delivered by the private sector but paid for by government. It’s contractors doing the roll out. The private sector loves nothing more than a government contract, because they pay their bills. Under BER look at the state that had cost blow outs (NSW, Vic) they contracted it out to a few of their developer buddies who price gouged. Whereas say the ACT got value for money because they are effectively a state and local government and are better at contracting out and using people on their pay roll, employed to deliver these services.

      Look at when IT was outsourced in the Public Service. It was estimated to result in a cost blow out of between $2 and $3 billion dollars and one Howard minister even insisted that his department throw out the contracted providers and inhouse the services again because the results were so bad.

      There used to be a Department of Administrative Service that specialised is delivering national programs like roads, and stuff like the NBN, that used both inhouse services and contracted out where appropriate but they were experts and knew how to get value for money (that’s not to say they were perfect). From my understanding at the behest of lobbyists Howard relented and wound the department up, under the guise that the private sector can deliver it suppposedly cheaper and supposedly better. Many intelligent people believe this was a mistake.

    • M says:

      10:57am | 09/08/12

      Economist, of course it was a mistake. Have a look at the $300 mil spent only on feasibility studies for a Northwest rail link in Sydney.

      The old maxim of consulting rings true in that if you aren’t directly employed to solve the problem there’s good money to be made in prolonging it.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      10:58am | 09/08/12

      I agree with MattC. The biggest risk to the NBN, financially, is the Coalition scaling it back to FTTN, or worse - scrapping it.

      Australia needs new telecommunications infrastructure, and needs a new business model for managing our infrastructure that gets it out of Telstra’s hands. FTTN, though, will end up costing more than the current plan, but the Coalition will sell it as being cheaper initially. A complete false economy.

    • Markus says:

      12:25pm | 09/08/12

      ‘From my understanding at the behest of lobbyists Howard relented and wound the department up, under the guise that the private sector can deliver it suppposedly cheaper and supposedly better.’

      I never understood this logic either. What the private sector is better at is not delivering a product cheaper, it is maximising their own profit/bottom line.
      If they are funding a project themselves this will of course result in them implementing in a way that minimises cost and/or maximises return.

      However when a project is being paid for with government funds, it would be entirely counterproductive for a private contractor to ever deliver a project on time or under budget, as this results in less money.

    • I hate pies says:

      12:28pm | 09/08/12

      SimpleSimon - that’s my question…what is the benefit rolling it out to country areas? It’s a serious question. I don’t get it - and I live in the country. What will we be able to do that will increase productivity beyond the cost of the NBN?

    • SimpleSimon says:

      01:14pm | 09/08/12

      @I hate pies - access to quality television for a fraction of the price it currently is via IP TV (which actually has benefits of it’s own outside of just entertainment, such as freeing up air space for other applications), 24 hour B2B surveilance and alarms over IP that at the moment are either prohibitively expensive and/or not available at all, the switch to reliable VoIP that reduces costs for telephone services to virtually nil, an actual choice of ISP with genuine competition, and that’s just things we have now off the top of my head, and not counting the potential business or community benefits. Those are 4 things, off the top of my head, that will save you money and/or increase your levels of security and comfort, that is simply not possible for the vast majority of Australians with existing infrastructure.

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      01:16pm | 09/08/12

      The National Broadband Network model proposed by the Coalition was faster and cheaper to roll out than the $36 billion design offered by the ALP.

      Telstra’s Mr Thodey’s statement so angered the ALP they unleashed their infamous attack Dogs on the poor fellow. Queue public vilification in the press, of him his family and the Dog.

      Not only is NBN Project out of control, but the splitting of Telsta has only meant higher prices for Australians.

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/nbn-rival-has-merits-telstra-ceo-david-thodey/story-fn59niix-1226333827288

      Another great job delivered by the ALP.

    • Mahhrat says:

      01:26pm | 09/08/12

      No, I like arguing this one because on this one people need to suck it up.

      @I hate pies, could it?  If it could be done for a real, tangible profit, private enterprise WOULD ALREADY DO IT.

      The fact is they won’t and they aren’t, but they’ll all happily profit over the back of it while bitching about the tax they’ll pay that’ll help fund it.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      01:46pm | 09/08/12

      @Babylon - You are so wrong. Not even a little bit wrong, but VERY wrong. The Coalition plan would be faster and cheaper to roll out - initially! When they realise how inadequate it is, they will have to go back and re-do the work they did to transition to the (technically far superior) ALP model. This will be more expensive because there is no direct upgrade path from FTTN (Coalition plan) to FTTH (ALP plan) meaning work has to be ripped up and thrown away.

      The separation of wholesale from Telstra is a GOOD thing for consumers, not a bad thing. Telstra price gouge on other ISPs and refuse to offer naked services, making prices higher for end consumers. By removing their monopolistic control over the infrastructure and centralising control by a body that is legislatively restricted from providing commercial services you level the playing field and make a better market for consumers.

      BTW, in the article you liked to he also says that FTTH is a superior solution and the Coalition plan does not provide longevity.

    • ronny jonny says:

      02:15pm | 09/08/12

      The NBN is rapidly becoming another Labour joke. Except it really isn’t funny. Need Billions Now. Anyone with even a passing interest in communications knows that convenience and mobility is the future. A fixed line to a house is 19th century thinking. More and more people are not bothering with fixed line telphones anymore. Why? Cell phones offer convenience and mobility. It is only the fact that cell phones are taking over from fixed line services that is allowing the NBN to do away with it’s infamous battery back up systems that mean your fixed phone will still operate in a power black out. More and more people are accessing the net via smart phone and tablet. I don’t want to be limited to hanging around my house to use my multi billion dollar internet. By the time the project is completed Labour will have delivered a service nobody wants, a fixed line delivering to a socket in a wall. A high speed wireless network is what should have been constructed if anything.
      I still haven’t heard a convincing business case that justifies the cost of this white elephant. Someones dads ebusiness will be more efficient, movies will download faster, instead of seeing a real doctor you can see one on your laptop, more TV! What a load of crap. In the case of TV, I hope it delivers us something better that the amazing digital revolution has, endless re runs of I Love Lucy and ads for exercise machines.
      This is a typical Labout initiative, ill concieved, poorly targeted and mismanaged.

    • ronny jonny says:

      02:15pm | 09/08/12

      The NBN is rapidly becoming another Labour joke. Except it really isn’t funny. Need Billions Now. Anyone with even a passing interest in communications knows that convenience and mobility is the future. A fixed line to a house is 19th century thinking. More and more people are not bothering with fixed line telphones anymore. Why? Cell phones offer convenience and mobility. It is only the fact that cell phones are taking over from fixed line services that is allowing the NBN to do away with it’s infamous battery back up systems that mean your fixed phone will still operate in a power black out. More and more people are accessing the net via smart phone and tablet. I don’t want to be limited to hanging around my house to use my multi billion dollar internet. By the time the project is completed Labour will have delivered a service nobody wants, a fixed line delivering to a socket in a wall. A high speed wireless network is what should have been constructed if anything.
      I still haven’t heard a convincing business case that justifies the cost of this white elephant. Someones dads ebusiness will be more efficient, movies will download faster, instead of seeing a real doctor you can see one on your laptop, more TV! What a load of crap. In the case of TV, I hope it delivers us something better that the amazing digital revolution has, endless re runs of I Love Lucy and ads for exercise machines.
      This is a typical Labour initiative, ill concieved, poorly targeted and mismanaged.

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      02:54pm | 09/08/12

      Simplesimon I’m not wrong, I’m quoting the Head of Telstra, whom knows a damn sight more than you do about NBN.

      The ferocity of the attack on him by the ALP only serves to show he’d hit the nail on the head.

    • Ben C says:

      03:09pm | 09/08/12

      Contrary to other commenters here, I actually think that the NBN should’ve been rolled out to remote areas first. The majority of us in the city have access to decent Internet speeds. Further, seeing as the NBN is to replace the copper network, why not upgrade the infrastructure of remote regions first, give them reliable technology? Test the durability of the infrastructure over long distances.

    • Mahhrat says:

      03:56pm | 09/08/12

      @Ronny:  Go to any stadium / arena.  Try and use the internet there.

      No signal?  That’s because those thousands are all using the one pipe.

      FTTH (or in this case, arena) provides thousands of those pipes.  Each of those pipes can have a wireless router attached to it, not just for the people, but the video cameras (who won’t need miles of cables any more).

    • Dash says:

      04:03pm | 09/08/12

      @Economist - governments should not be spending taxpayers money to deliver assets which can be better provided by the private sector. It’s just stupid!

      Governments should build roads, drains, bridges and trains. Not spend our money creating a state owned and state censored internet service. The amount of money being spent/wasted on this is unbelievable!

      I have Telstra cable, yet the government is making Telstra switch it off. They want to remove my choice, force me onto their ASIO linked service, and force yet more revenue out of me. Well they can go and get themselves stuffed!

      And another thing: They should not be threatening private companies with punitive legislation and stand over tactics to hand over assets as the ALP did to Telstra. That is something you’d expect to see in Soviet Russia! Or from the people running the Socialist Forum….. hey hang on a minute!

    • SimpleSimon says:

      04:08pm | 09/08/12

      @Babylon - You’re misrepresenting his quotes, though. You’re making out that because he said it’s faster and cheaper (initially) that it’s the better solution. That’s totally disingenuous. He even says in the article that he’s NOT saying it’s a better solution, and that it’s actually technologically inferior and will not stand up to future demand. You’re using an out of context quote to support a fundamentally flawed argument. Ergo, you are wrong.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      05:16pm | 09/08/12

      @Dash - “Governments should build roads, drains, bridges and trains.”

      That’s exactly how the NBN should be looked at, though. National telecommunications infrastructure should be centrally owned and managed, the same way roads are. The private sector cannot operate infrastructure of this scale for the same cost that Government can, because Government can do it on slim-to-no profit margin. The privatisation of Telstra, and allowing the wholesale and retail components to operate together, was a mistake. In reality, the NBN takes your Telstra cable, and gives you the opportunity to connect to a much wider range of ISPs with a better quality service. It evens the playing field providing true competition.

      Also, contrary to evidently popular belief, the Government doesn’t need the NBN to censor and monitor your internet usage. I’m totally opposed to an internet filter, but the Government can implement that just as easily without the NBN.

    • andye says:

      05:21pm | 09/08/12

      @Babylon in Canberra - “Simplesimon I’m not wrong”

      Yes. Yes, you are. You are wronger than Creed.

      @Babylon in Canberra - “I’m quoting the Head of Telstra, whom knows a damn sight more than you do about NBN.”

      How about the (ex) CEO of BT in Britain?

      “One of the UK’s foremost telecommunications experts, a former chief technology officer of British telco BT, has publicly stated that fibre to the node-style broadband is “one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made”, imposing huge bandwidth and unreliability problems on those who implement it, as the Coalition may do in Australia.”

      source: http://delimiter.com.au/2012/04/30/fttn-a-huge-mistake-says-ex-bt-cto/

    • Chris L says:

      05:54pm | 09/08/12

      I agree with Ben C. The cities can continue for a while longer on what we have, but rolling fibre out to the country will connect people previously isolated and may even make regional areas a more attractive location for people and businesses.

    • Daylight Robbery says:

      10:38pm | 09/08/12

      Mahhrat “We cannot compete with 2nd world economies with cheap labour for manufacturing, so let’s not try” [endquote]

      Oh, but we do.  Many Aussies have been sent all over the world to bring the 3rd world up to speed on high skills etc.

      Productivity of many Aussie workers in particular sectors is shit hot.  Theyre fast and they work harder than poorer countries.

      Aussies are well educated too. Its what allows them to produce the things they do.

      One of the issues of competition is that some countries “cheat” on their currencies. China was maniplulating it currency to ensure it was always cheaper than America. Obama printed a bucket load of money to force the devaluating the USD which further depreciated the CHinese currency.  All this has made Australias currency worse,

      Its all relavent, you may only be paid $50AUD a week in China but that 50AUD gets you the same living standard as someone earning $800 a week in Australia.

      And yes if and only if Australian companies really embrace the capacity for many Aussie workers to operate from home it will save the companies a bucket load of floor space and further take a bucket load of cars off the road to free up peak hour traffic.
      Imagine no more peak hour traffic jam

    • Joel B1 says:

      08:16am | 09/08/12

      Three big stories conspicuously missing from “The Best Conversation”.

      1) Gillard and the AWU scandal.

      2) NBN re-write of business plan, more money for less houses (surprise me), and,

      3) Bess Price, Amnesty International and the new racism.

      Sure, they’re all controversial, but I kinda thought that was the idea of this site. If I wanted bland, one-sided, non-reporting I’d visit The Drum.

    • AdamC says:

      09:59am | 09/08/12

      Joel, on point 1) most media organisationa are maintaining radio silence on this aspect of Gillard’s past. While they cannot run the country, it seems this government are pretty effective at intimidating the press. A couple of hacks were even fired for writing about that story I seem to recall. 

      On 2) I agree. The NBN, while not a bad idea in principle, is looking increasingly like a white elelphant.

      On 3) I have noticed the Punch tends to ignore serious issues around race, immigration or multiculturalism. I suspect this is driven by a concern that some Punchers will post comments on these topics that are deemed ‘offensive’. In Australia, as you may recall, you are not allowed to offend certain people.

    • Hamish says:

      10:47am | 09/08/12

      Joel B1, I too am surprised that these issues are missing from The Punch today. It’s pretty slim pickings…I have no idea why the NBN is not a bigger story. Even if you agree with the NBN concept in theory (which I don’t), the way the delivery has been botched would be truly remarkable if we didn’t know who was in charge of said delivery.

    • AdamC says:

      11:10am | 09/08/12

      @Hamish, I suspect that the NBN is blowing out, at least in part, because it is being carried ‘off balance sheet’ or ‘off budget’. Therefore, cost overruns and write-offs do not affect Wayne Swan’s precious accounting fiddle of a budget surplus.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      11:56am | 09/08/12

      I disagree that the implementation of the NBN has been “botched”. It’s an incredibly complex project for which the technical challenges are still being unveiled and addressed. Anyone who thinks delivery of something this big and complicated can be 100% accurately predicted from the beginning displays a remarkable ignorance towards technology and project management.

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      05:51pm | 09/08/12

      Shorten ‘flip out’ at poor hard working Ms Huang was crushed quick smart.

      If it had been Pyne, it would have been in the Age, ABC TV, ABC Radio, SBS TV, SBS Radio, 3AA, 3ZZ etc radios for weeks.

      All angles would have been investigated ... Was it racist, sexist, elitist etc.

      Instead we get one wee tiny article and gone.

      That’s power and a little scary to be honest.

    • andye says:

      11:59pm | 09/08/12

      hey @Babylon in Canberra.

      Yeah I am sure we need some serious investigative effort into Piegate. That time some guy got hungry and misheard something and then was a jerk but apologised afterwards would have… what exactly if it was someone else?

      @Babylon in Canberra - “If it had been Pyne, it would have been in the Age, ABC TV, ABC Radio, SBS TV, SBS Radio, 3AA, 3ZZ etc radios for weeks.”

      Oh absolutely, there must be like SO many angles on this whole pie fiasco.

      @Babylon in Canberra - “Instead we get one wee tiny article and gone. That’s power and a little scary to be honest.”

      2/8 NEVER FORGET. That was the day of the angry Pie. Keep fighting that good fight against oppression, Babylon. This pie story MUST get out there! The people MUST hear it! We will not be silenced!

    • lame says:

      08:18am | 09/08/12

      So wade, you are either a lame troll, or just ignorant. I guess being a bloke who never gave birth to a child, you could not inform anyone about this topic? Is it possible the woman who let the whole country down by not utilising her womb for natures intended purpose may know other people with kids, may have an informed opinion anyway?

      Aah there we go, that makes it clearer, your expectations are that of a dolt. Dislike the PM, for sure, have a political opinion, just don’t infect the masses with your antiquated, ignorant ideals based on nothing. No doubt your contribution to the world has been absolutely outstanding.

    • Sceptical parent says:

      08:19am | 09/08/12

      The assistant manager at my local supermarket who did first year chemistry reckons there’s nothing wrong with the Nestles milk.

      While scientists disagree with the supposed risks of the formula, I will continue feeding it to my infant.

    • Vinny says:

      08:37am | 09/08/12

      LOL

      The Assistant Manager at Woolies and his one year chemistry course…who needs greater certainty?

    • M says:

      08:45am | 09/08/12

      They still reckon breast milk is best for the first 6 months.

    • Sceptical parent says:

      09:13am | 09/08/12

      I would add that, as my mother pointed out, babies have been throwing up and having bad poos since Adam was in nappies.

      There is no reason to suppose that the Nestles formula is causing this latest outbreak.

    • Arnold Layne says:

      09:29am | 09/08/12

      M, you may be right but not all women are able to breast feed.  While I’m sure there are some who choose to use formula, others have no choice.

    • Ethical Consumer says:

      10:43am | 09/08/12

      Nestle has engaged in dodgy and shonky business practices for a long time.

    • Chris L says:

      10:53am | 09/08/12

      “babies have been throwing up and having bad poos since Adam was in nappies” - Which raises the obvious question. Who changed Adam’s nappies?

    • M says:

      12:18pm | 09/08/12

      “M, you may be right but not all women are able to breast feed.  While I’m sure there are some who choose to use formula, others have no choice. “

      I know, i’m just pointing out that for those who can breasfeed, it’s advisable to do so for the first 6 months. I’m not all up on this, but as far as I’m aware, formulas don’t help with the kids immune system like mother’s own does.

    • Zoe says:

      02:44pm | 09/08/12

      Please noooo! Dont turn this into another breast feeding rant. Its been done to death and at the end of the day its still up to the individual.

    • Sceptical parent says:

      04:29pm | 09/08/12

      The thread began as a satirical take on the mentality of climate change sceptics.
      I fear it was too subtle for the average Punch poster.

    • Chris L says:

      08:19am | 09/08/12

      I think my radio might be possessed. I normally get a news update at 7:00am while I’m procrastinating before work, but now it just makes the sound of demonic screaming and some exitable fellow hollaring about someone getting across a line. Every morning of late at news time. Do you have to be Catholic to order an exorcism?

    • TimB says:

      09:29am | 09/08/12

      I might be able to help you out. Drop a cheque for $50 in the mail to me, and I can totally take care of those pesky demons. Cleared by next week or double your money back wink.

    • Jester says:

      09:42am | 09/08/12

      That’s the wife, the radio is in the opposite direction.

    • Mouse says:

      09:58am | 09/08/12

      Exorcism is a little extreme I think, beds don’t seem to survive the process very well.. Don’t listen to TimB, he’s a scammer (sitting here frowning because TimB thought of it first! :oz)
      Have you tried wearing earmuffs to bed ChrisL?  You can get some pretty good ones now. It’s just a thought!  lol :o)

    • TimB says:

      10:56am | 09/08/12

      Aww, don’t be like that Mouse.

      I tell you what, send me a cheque for $50 and I’ll let you use my idea as a franchisee smile

    • Inky says:

      11:03am | 09/08/12

      “I can totally take care of those pesky demons.”

      Ah, don’t listen to this second rate. Everyone knows the best thing to deal with a demon is a better demon, and they don’t come much better than Inky here. Sure, I may be no Baal or Asmodeus, but my rates are reasonable and affordable. Tired of having to slaughter the innocent and sacrifice their souls on a dark altar just to get a simple task compelted? No more, with Inky, all that’s required is three easy payments. But wait, there’s more, call within the next 15 minutes and you’ll receieve, for free, a set of Infernal steak knives, guarenteed to stay sharp and slice the soul of your meat, not just their flesh.

    • Chris L says:

      11:12am | 09/08/12

      TimB, I’ll need that fifty back, and if you know that nice fellow from Nigera who offered to share his lottery winnings with me could you ask him what the delay is please?

      I started to get worried, if that were my wife making such noise, who is the guy so excited about getting across the line. Then I remembered I’m not married and must have fallen asleep in someone else’s bedroom.

      I like the idea of earmuffs, Danger Mouse. It would save me having to press the snooze button to get those extra minutes of sleep. In fact, the radio alarm wouldn’t be bothering me at all!

    • Chris L says:

      11:28am | 09/08/12

      @Inky - If they’re the knives of Megiddo I’m in!

    • Mouse says:

      02:02pm | 09/08/12

      See ChrisL, I fixed it for ya!  No, no… a simple Thanks will surfice!  :oD

    • Chris L says:

      03:25pm | 09/08/12

      Thanks Mouse. I’ll let you know what my employer thinks of this solution.

    • Jan says:

      06:56pm | 09/08/12

      Mouse does Chris L taste good? Make your Dapto parents proud!

    • Chris L says:

      10:11pm | 09/08/12

      @Mouse - I’m sorry it came to this. Here’s hoping my mentally troubled stalker resumes their medication. I plan to take your previous advice and ignore his attempts at getting a reaction.

    • SimpleSimon says:

      09:11am | 09/08/12

      @Dash (following on from Yesterday’s dsicussion) - the plan at this stage is to build most of it from scratch. Whilst this is subject to change, the plan is to buy a pre-thicknessed body blank from somewhere local, a StewMac bolt on neck blank and pre-radiused/slotted fret board. I’ll also probably shortcut on the pickguard and cavity covers and just buy them. That link you showed me a few weeks ago had some good plans, but I have printed them up yet to see if they’re accurate. First step will be trying to make some templates from MDF.

      I’m planning on putting a single car garage in my backyard that will actually be garden shed/work shop. Going to be a bit pricey, but I think it will be worth it.

    • Dash says:

      04:30pm | 09/08/12

      @SS - The tele plan on that site is perfect! I’ve used it for three builds! I’d recommend using Mahogany. It’s not the traditional Tele timber, but it is a pleasure to work with. Give it a go. And I’d recommend Trend Timber at Windsor for your blank. Or maybe this site:

      http://www.fijimahoganyblanks.com/Welcome.html

      Also, the stewmac Tele pups are awesome value! I love them.

      Man you’ve got the bug now!!! No turning back.

      I’d love a dedicated space for a workshop!

    • SimpleSimon says:

      05:23pm | 09/08/12

      Yeah I have a decent sized backyard (at least for my area) and am on a corner block which gives good street access for a second garage. If my double garage wasn’t set up as a gym/jam room it would be perfect, but I’m not about to change that wink

      You’re right though, I’ve got the bug. I’m loving what I’ve done and seen so far, and eager to get cracking on a proper build. In the process of accumulating tools at the moment. Don’t see why I can’t get started before my shop is ready!

    • Ginger Mick says:

      09:20am | 09/08/12

      How do you cyclists feel about some form of ID for bicycles? (and rego fee to pay for new bike paths?)

      http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/cameras-catch-cyclists-running-red-light-gauntlet-but-very-few-get-fined/story-e6freoof-1226446296016

      “RED-light cameras are routinely snapping wayward cyclists but only a handful ever get booked.

      Photographs released by the Queensland Police Service under Right to Information laws show red-light cameras do detect cyclists, but they cannot be identified.

      Unless the cyclist is caught in the act, the riders escape prosecution that costs other road users a $300 fine plus three demerit points.

      In the past six years, an average of only 220 cyclists a year have been caught running red lights despite photographic evidence the offence happens much more frequently.

      “We often see it, it’s like they’re playing russian roulette,” State Traffic Support Branch Chief Superintendent Bob Gee said.””

    • Mirror says:

      09:48am | 09/08/12

      Your new here aren’t you Ginger Mick…Punch has done the cyclist rego story to DEATH…many, many times.

    • Max Power says:

      10:05am | 09/08/12

      I think it is a good idea. Firstly, if they pay rego, then the government no longer has an excuse to not build cycling infrastructure. Simply taking a section of road and painting a bike lane on it is not good enough, neither is taking a foot path and painting bike lanes on it, or making it a shared use path.

      Secondly, if cyclists have their own paths, I won’t get bumped into and nearly run over by cyclists riding their bikes, sometimes flat chat on foot paths. I get that cyclists don’t like riding on the roads because it increasss the risk of being injured. But what makes cyclists think it is ok to reduce their risk of injury by increasing the risk of injury to pedestrians walking or jogging on a foot path. Also, what is with the arrogance of cyclists expecting pedestrians to move off the foot path to allow them to rid flat out without hinderence. Ringing your bell when you are riding on a foot path means diddly squat, get on the road where you belong.

      Thirdly: Cyclists are generally a law unto themselves. Stops signs, red lights, pedestrian crossings, both lighted and zebra etc are too often ignored. Not all cyclists ignore the law, but where I live, the majority do. If bike ID is introduced, maybe we would see an improvement in cyclist behaviour.

    • M says:

      10:36am | 09/08/12

      I don’t think we should even think about going down this path. What does it then mean for kids who might be fined for not having a registered bicycle?

      Too expensive and not worth the hassle for any potential benefit imo.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      10:44am | 09/08/12

      Maybe pedestrians could wear ID as well - to stop j-walking?

      Maybe everyone could wear a number to help CTV identify shoplifters and people smoking in public places?

    • Max Power says:

      01:06pm | 09/08/12

      When bumping into another person at 5km/h causes serious injury or death or when shop lifting causes serious injury or death, then sure bring in a person ID.
      There is a basic and easy to see difference between pedestrians at walking/jogging speed and cyclists travelling at urban car speeds.
      If you can’t see the difference, well, no amount of reasoning will help you.

      I wonder how happy you would be, if you or your child was hit by a cyclist running a red light or not giving way at a pedestrian crossing?

    • vox says:

      10:06am | 09/08/12

      God’s not going tolike this.

    • M says:

      10:20am | 09/08/12

      That was exactly my first thought.

    • nihonin says:

      10:47am | 09/08/12

      Wouldn’t the skulls actually be old, if they’ve just been discovered?

    • Baloo says:

      11:18am | 09/08/12

      Man I wish I had a time machine to see what Earth was like back then.
      I also wish all these other species of humans such as Neanderthals never disappeared, would be so cash.

    • Mouse says:

      11:32am | 09/08/12

      nihonin, so as not to confuse you, I will explain - they are old skulls that have been newly found, making them new skulls but not saying that they aren’t old, it’s just that they are new because they have just been discovered and they have to be older than when they were found, making them not new. I think M was just stating that they are in fact old skulls that have been newly found. With his choice of vernacular, I can totally understand your confusion, but I am sure M, though guilty of being lazy with the English language, at no stage was trying to confuse you.
      nihonin, I hope this helps…...  xo)

    • M says:

      12:02pm | 09/08/12

      Just proves the maxim that everything old is new again.

    • nihonin says:

      12:30pm | 09/08/12

      Mouse, Mouse, Mouse I was just having some fun and you had to go and kick my ball over the fence.  :p

    • Mouse says:

      02:35pm | 09/08/12

      nihonin! *look of shock on my face and hand on my heart* I never touched your balls, let alone kicked them over the fence!!  I am sure that if you look you will find them still where they were, where they were before this skull thing started.  Oh dear, what a kerfuffle! (YAAY, I’ve been wanting to use that word in the correct context for days now!! LOL)
      I certainly hope that now everyone is happy and peace has been restored. ;o)
      Baloo, I agree. How cool would that be hey?  :o)

    • che says:

      03:30pm | 09/08/12

      I want some of whatever Mouse is on.

    • Baloo says:

      04:33pm | 09/08/12

      Isn’t on anything, I think Mouse is just an incredibly friendly person.
      Like.. the nicest person on the planet haha.
      On ya Mouse

    • Mouse says:

      06:33pm | 09/08/12

      Holy macaroli che,  just the thought of me being on anything would make God cry…. lots! lol I have never met a drug yet that can outdo fresh air and a crazy imagination   :oD
      Baloo, you sweetie you. Yes, you are now in my good books!  :ox

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:50am | 09/08/12

      Whats a meme - Ask Chomsky he invented it while at it look at intransitive tagmeme.

      Phoneme appears a lot in linguistics.

    • Jason Todd says:

      11:50am | 09/08/12

      I was under the impression coining of the phrase was attributed to Richard Dawkins from his book “The Selfish Gene”.

      Got a reference for Chomsky’s claim to fame Dieter?

    • KH says:

      11:33am | 09/08/12

      Hi Punchers - I’m running my first City 2 Surf this weekend.  I don’t come from Sydney, so I’ve never run any of the route before…......any advice?!!!!

    • I hate pies says:

      01:05pm | 09/08/12

      don’t stop, or it’ll be walk

    • Max Power says:

      01:09pm | 09/08/12

      Enjoy heartbreak hill.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      05:53pm | 09/08/12

      Whenever I run anywhere, I make sure someone is chasing me so as to ensure I run as fast as possible. This can be achieved by stealing something, or yelling out something offensive based on someones physical appearance right before the race starts. Make sure the person you offend has the appearance of being a fast runner and could possibly hurt you, because you need that fear, it’s your friend.

    • ibast says:

      11:50am | 09/08/12

      So I’ve been getting a phone call every half hour the last couple of evenings.  No caller ID, which I usually let go to the answering machine.  Curiosity got the better of me after a few hang ups and I answered it.  I got nothing before the hang up.  I accused the girlfreind of having another boyfreind, but she tried it and got the same.  I answered another later in the evening and after the usual silence got an electronic voice that said “thankyou” before hanging up.

      The other part of the puzzle is we had a message from an electronic voice on our answering machine, a few days before, trying to take us through a survey.

      Anyone got any idea what is going on?

      I had to turn off my phone, to stop it waking the kids, because it was still happening at 10.30pm.  I’m on the do not call list and only get the occasional call from charities.

    • fml says:

      12:01pm | 09/08/12

      Maybe it was homer simpson?

    • Baloo says:

      12:10pm | 09/08/12

      This feels like you wrote this as an experiment to see how many people would call you out on this line: “I accused the girlfreind of having another boyfreind, but she tried it and got the same.”

      If not then it’s probably computers trying to thank you for giving them sentience some how.

    • ibast says:

      01:55pm | 09/08/12

      Nah, it was just a bit of a joke with the girlfriend.

      I was just trying to figure out if I was being scammed some how.  I can’t see how, but it’s all a bit weird.  I can’t see how to stop it either because the caller ID is withheld.

      Just after ideas.

      We are with a wireless provider, and thus calls come via a modem with a sim card, so the phone probably looks like a mobile to a phone bot.

      Could it be one of those scams that wants you to call back so get the fees, but failing?

    • Zoe says:

      02:32pm | 09/08/12

      I got a call like that which was a recorded voice telling me i was being put on hold. Like F***! im being put on hold. Hung up straight away. Anyone else got that one?

    • Baloo says:

      03:11pm | 09/08/12

      I’d actually find it creepy getting a phone call and hearing an electronic “Thank you” then it hanging up.

    • ibast says:

      04:19pm | 09/08/12

      Zackly Baloo.  I’m a bid paranoid.

      I put the phone back on the hook this morning to see if a get calls all day.

    • Baloo says:

      12:32pm | 09/08/12

      10 Bucks says Stephanie Rice becomes the next Lara Bingle.

    • Octavius says:

      01:11pm | 09/08/12

      You’re on

    • Sloane says:

      01:49pm | 09/08/12

      Still better then being the next childless Gillard smile

    • Ben C says:

      01:55pm | 09/08/12

      In which manner, going into reality TV, being attached to a big(ger) name sports star, or both?

    • Baloo says:

      02:09pm | 09/08/12

      Gu-hyuck hyuck hyuck good one Sloane yew sure told er!

    • rio underwear or rio games says:

      02:10pm | 09/08/12

      she needs to go to rio whether in underpants or not

    • Baloo says:

      02:32pm | 09/08/12

      @ Ben C

      Reality TV, although using a famous actor or sports star will probably be a tactic to get her there.
      I think she loves the attention and fame she gets from the Olympics and will want it to continue even when she’s no longer an athlete

    • fml says:

      03:04pm | 09/08/12

      She is punching way above her weight class with Kobe Bryant.

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      01:50pm | 09/08/12

      THE Gillard Governments Carbon Tax model, exibit A

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/specials/climate-change/pricing-explained/

      The idea behind this flawed model is that utility prices increase to a level that Australians are financially challenged, squeezed, into submission, to the will of the Government, which is to adopt renewable energy options.

      After having dropped the extra curricula activities for the kids, footy games at the G, music lessons, Ballet, extra maths for the science degree later, the Australian gives in to financial demands and from his penniless state buys renewable energy options to reduce bills.

      - As a model it’s a gross act of cruelty, especially when you consider it’s largely pointless without global action. Follow the Babylon thread on Asia, China and US commitment to CO2 reduction. (i.e None)

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/The-alp-is-so-hard-up-its-now-hitting-up-its-own-staff/

      The model suggests you need only swap out you’re light bulbs to be set. Yeah right, and the tax stops?

      There are no recommendations from the Government as to which Renewable systems to use.

      There are no recommendations as to which Renewable products to use.

      There are no Government Approved installers of Renewable systems and products to engage.

      The model lies suggesting only some families will be compensated, not 70 percent.

      The model certainly does not show that most of the tax will be pumped back into Companies, including the billions to Big Polluters.

      The carbon pricing charges hit NSW bills in 2011 in fact. and represented 34 percent of the increases that year. In 2012 the carbon pricing charges represented a 50 percent of the increase to NSW Electricity bills. Next year we are guaranteed a further 10 percent until Aussie squeals.

      My Rates bill states that the Council has estimated a Carbon tax bill between $1.2 to $1.5 million.

      In our general cost of living, Carbon tax is everywhere.

      ssssqqqqueeeeeeeeeezzzze

    • thatmosis says:

      03:27pm | 09/08/12

      My one question is,“what renewable systems”. Oh there are so called renewable systems like solar that works great during the day but at night not so good unless of course you have banks of very expensive batteries in your home to store the “free” electricity. The average household would need a minimum of 6 banks of 4vDC x 1030AH batteries at a cost of about $8000 a bank just to run their households as they are.
        By the way the batteries are only supposed to last 10 to 15 years and then need replacing with new and improved batteries which we all know means more expensive plus the time and cost of maintenance which in this day and age would be contracted out as the owners would be too busy earning money to pay for their free power.
        Then we have wind power and it works great if you happen to have constant wind of about 20kph and a tower in your back yard and don’t expect to have any spare money because of the cost of the turbine and the maintenance costs.
        Of course we will be told that there are other alternative power sources but how many actually work in a domestic household and what subsidise do we have to continue to pay to keep these green alternatives going, millions, billions.
        I really think the best alternative power would come from harnessing the crap that comes out of Labor/Green politicians mouths daily and turning it into methane gas,but wait, then you would pay the dreaded Tax on Nothing because its a pollutant isn’t it. Bugger.

    • Babylon in Canberra says:

      06:00pm | 09/08/12

      I’ve got Solar. My neighbour, who has only small windows in his upstairs extension, runs his refrigerate aircon most of the year.

      His costs are cheaper than mine.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      02:22pm | 09/08/12

      Out of her own mouth has she condemned herself!
      Julia Gillard, whilst attacking the States over the massive Price Increases in Electricity, admitted that the Greens-Gillard CO2 Tax has resulted in increases of 10% & brushes off as irrelevant The fact that the average household will be up for $115 per annum worse off on their Electricity Bills.
      That 10% impact is not restricted to Families. Every single business in Australia, 100% of them, which uses electricity, either to light, heat, cool their premises and manufacture goods, will also be impacted by this 10% increase. It will flow through to everything. So the manufacturers, processors, growers etc. will have to charge more for what they provide. That 10% increase will be passed on to Retailers - be they Supermarkets, Motor Vehicle Salerooms, Pubs etc. There will be no escape for anyone.
      The Supermarkets will be hit with increased cost of the goods & food they sell. They will also be hit with a 10% rise in their Power Bills for Lighting, Refrigeration - you name it their costs will go up.
      There will not be an organisation in this Country which will not have to pass on those increases by way of higher prices over the next few months.
      Gillard claims the $250 she handed out will more than cover all increases.
      Of that $250, as a direct result of the increased household Electricity Price Increase caused by her CO2 Tax, 47% will have been eaten up by it. The remaining 53% will go nowhere near addressing the pointless, Achieve Nothing Gillard CO2 Tax. By their own admission this CO2 Tax will not result in any measureable reduction in CO2 output. Oh! and don’t forget we also pay GST on our Electricity. As the Greens-Gillard CO2 tax is not shown as a seperate item on our electricity accounts we will be paying increased GST. without the Government having to even consider raising the GST Rate of 10%.

    • ibast says:

      02:51pm | 09/08/12

      And what do you think of the 200% rise in recent years by state governments?

    • TimB says:

      03:10pm | 09/08/12

      ‘Gillard claims the $250 she handed out will more than cover all increases.’

      This year. What about next year? And 2014?

      This point needs to be pushed home.

    • Dash says:

      04:21pm | 09/08/12

      @ibast - Failures of the ALP in NSW, the ALP in Victoria, the ALP in S.A., the ALP in Queensland. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there may be a pattern here.

      Gillard is an idiot! She seems to ignore the fact that these States have been run by inept ALP governments for years! And all the idiots that destroyed the NSW ALP have now all infested the Federal ALP. Nice of her to remind us of the crap ALP state governments weve had for so long!

      @TimB - what $250?? I have a roof full of solar panels, and water tanks at my place. Yet I get zero compensation and increased costs of over $1,000 in the first year. Why? Because it’s not about big polluters! The ALP are discriminating against people on the basis of what they earn, not how they pollute. It’s a socialist fraud. The ALP are compromised by the minority and are corrupt!

      They penalise the people who are already paying the most tax. But if your dumb as dogshit and already on welfare….. here have some money. The bastards!

    • andye says:

      05:08pm | 09/08/12

      Robert S McCormick - “That 10% impact is not restricted to Families. Every single business in Australia, 100% of them, which uses electricity, either to light, heat, cool their premises and manufacture goods, will also be impacted by this 10% increase.”

      Boy that is terrible. Maybe they will have to use less electricity.

      Haha, just kidding. Everybody knows that there is no possible way of using less electricity. If there was, the Carbon Tax might work but it clearly doesn’t.

    • thatmosis says:

      02:58pm | 09/08/12

      Just sat through the Julia Gillard Blog on the Courier Mail web site and that’s a hour and a bit I’ll never get back. What a sham, it was just a political stunt and she cherry picked the questions she wanted to answer and went on and on about how she is gunna do this and gunna do that, what bullshit. She would be flat out finding her head if someone hadn’t bolted it on.
        She is laying the framework to have the moral high ground during the COAG meeting in December but forgets that people know she has no morals. The main thrust of the story is that she wants the States to agree to her policy for power price cuts but hasn’t given any information and if its like the other policies that she has been responsible for it will end up costing 6 times as much as it does now. The worst offenders by the way are Labor States in power prices and why now that she has lost the majority of State to the Liberals has this become a great item that needs immediate attention unless of course its to mask the upsurge in power costs from the Tax on Nothing.
        She said it would be a great idea to have a component of the power bill to show the exact cost of the Tax on Nothing and if this is the case then why not on every receipt on every item we purchase to show it as well plus the increase in GST we will pay as a Tax on a Tax or would that show that once again she has lied to the public about the impact of the Tax on Nothing.

    • Dash says:

      04:12pm | 09/08/12

      Gillard has no credibility left and neither does the ALP.

      They have over promised and under delivered for 4 years. No one is listening except the idiots who would still vote ALP if Joseph Stalin was in charge!

      What did she say? That there will be no carbon tax? That she wont touch the private health tax rebate? That she’ll build 260 childcare centres? Make your groceries cheaper? Your fuel cheaper? Give us a Coast Guard? No child shall live without a laptop??

      Who in their right mind would believe what she says? Oakshott and Windsor??? - lol

    • steiner says:

      03:05pm | 09/08/12

      How about this story about the Melbourne Uni student who wrote a tell-all in the student newspaper on the depressingly grim reality of the Herald Sun newsroom.
      And the most insane part of all?  The Herald Sun complaining that it didn’t get a right of reply.
      Hang on - isn’t a right of reply what Finkelstein was all about?  You know, the thing set the media off on a storm of vitriol and misinformation about the Finkelstein report.
      So, here we have the Herald Sun complaining that it should have received a right of reply.  Exactly the thing it has campaigned so intensely to deny its’ own readers.
      Little wonder Sasha Burden’s article is more expected than expose. After all, who really thought the Herald Sun would be anything more than a bunch of alliterative headlines in search of articles.

    • Ally says:

      04:47pm | 09/08/12

      I read that. I particularly enjoyed her claiming it was sexist to have doors held open for her and being allowed to exit the lift first. Oh. My. God. Won’t somebody please think of the feminists?

      Serioulsy though, the paper in question seems to have issues culturally, but that girl comes across as pretentious and it reads like she flicked through the thesaurus looking for more impressive words as she wrote. Typical journalism student fare.

    • Wilma J Craig says:

      05:00pm | 09/08/12

      Is anyone really surprised that the NBNCo has had a cost blow-out?
      At the rate they are rolling it out. most of those who currently are looking forward to connecting will probably be prevented from doing so for a number of reasons:
      The cost, already even the slowest rate is far too expensiove for many Home Users, will have become so exorbitant no-one, other than retired politicians on their indexed, massive pensions & other very rich people will be able to afford to connect.
      or
      They will be so old they will have forgotten what the Internet, NBN, Broadband are.
      or
      They will be safely locked up in Mega-Security Dementia Units whilst waiting to die die!

 

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