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Punch on: Open thread 08/06/2011

Bridget Ahern

by Bridget Ahern

08 Jun 05:00am

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Filed under: 1984, George Orwell, Open Thread

134 comments

Ever get the feeling sombody is watching you? Chances are you’ve read George Orwell’s 1984 a few too many times.

Freedom is slavery in 1984

On this day in 1949, the book was published and went on to become a modern classic. If you’ve been a high school student in the last 50 years, chances are just mentioning the title will see you break out in a cold sweat. Don’t worry, we won’t be having a pop quiz on Big Brother or Newspeak anytime soon.

Think I’m more partial to Animal Farm myself. But that’s in another barnyard all together. It’s Wednesday…. so discuss!

Most commented

134 comments

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    • nocredin says:

      12:23pm | 08/06/11

      Hahahaha
      you linked to the Australian.

      Way to destroy your credibility. Gonna love that paywall.

    • nihonin says:

      12:36pm | 08/06/11

      @nocredin ‘Way to destroy your credibility’.

      In your eyes nocredin. perhaps.

    • Edward James says:

      02:33am | 09/06/11

      There is always clear conflict of non pecuniary interest when Councilors / Mayors are also members of State Parliament! Robert Furolo was elected to the New South Wales Legislative Assembly as the Member for Lakemba on Saturday 18 October, 2007.  He continues to serve as the Mayor of the City of Canterbury and Member for Lakemba. Under his watch Canterbury City Council was exposed as malfeasant by the State Ombudsman, in the well published years long battle of Magda Mallone v Canterbury City Council. It is my understanding this council malfeasance still continues. While the media and our conflicted politicians who should be ashamed are looking on in silence. When the State Ombudsman made such adverse findings about Mayor Furolos council in his report 2009 2010. The then Minister for Local Government Barbera Perry had nothing to offer the State Parliament about the way the Member for Lakembas short fall in personal values were bringing the Labor Party into disrepute! The current Minister for Local Government Don Page is in exactly the same conflicted position with his fellow National and Liberal Party members holding down conflicting political positions in local councils. There will always be a clear and often quite obvious conflict like the one exposed in Canterbury City Council and other local councils while this wrong minded party political abuse of due process continues to be ignored by politicians and the local media.

    • nocredin says:

      12:23pm | 08/06/11

      Hahahaha
      you linked to the Australian.

      Way to destroy your credibility. Gonna love that paywall.

    • nihonin says:

      12:37pm | 08/06/11

      I’d see a typing specialist if I was you nocredin, you seem to have finger stutter.

    • nihonin says:

      12:42pm | 08/06/11

      If I wanted to link to people skipping through flowered fields, singing Kumbya and wearing hessian bags, I’d have linked to The Age.

    • mick says:

      07:56pm | 09/06/11

      I agree with Edward James who has clearly experienced first hand the attrocities which local coucils heap on their ratepayers.  Councils have been known to cause deaths and walk away from their crimes.  They are well known for their mismanagement of ratepayer funds, their building of trendy new monuments to house often underworked staff some of whom have the prime job of producing reports and spin whilst services remain unfixed.  What is really gaulling is that state governmnet ministers sit back and let the gravy train roll by refusing to do intervene and fix the ongoing haemorage. 
      I recall contacting the previous government ministers (Keneally, Perry) and the only response which kept coming back was “unable to intervene” and “autonomous organisation”, but whilst in office for only a few weeks Barry O’Farrell was able to put it straight up to Marrickville council.  Funny how suddenly the government was able to pressure these organisations.
      Well the bad previous governmnet is gone.  Now we have a new government to take up the bit but the Solar Scheme saga is not a great start. TRUST is paramount.
      I call on the state government to put the cleaners through the Local Government Sector.  It is long overdue.  It is absolutely necessary and it should happen.  What’s the bet that nothing changes.

    • Dash says:

      07:26am | 08/06/11

      The ABC need to get rid of Tony Jones on Lateline. The Wayne Swan interview last night was fantastic. It showed him and the ALP up as being very silly and showed how badly they have managed the whole Carbon Tax policy. As I said on the punch yesterday, we needed to cut through Swans crap and see if he came clean on the price and the details of the compensation scheme. He did neither. Used a price of 20 dollars to sell it at the press club and yet admitted that it wasn’t the agreed price on the ABC last night and when asked if the tax would be revenue neutral basically admitted that it wouldn’t be. And even if it was revenue neutral, the ALP and Greens will still decide which Australian families foot the bill!

      This whole process is disgraceful! There is nothing but uncertainty out in the community. And the Federal Treasurer cherry picked information that was once again misleading and not even final policy to sell the thing infront of the nations media. To the ABCs credit last night they showed that up as nothing more than spin.

      What is the ALP hiding? Over half the population have no representation at the climate committee table! Time they came clean on the details because without it all their noise is just a load of hot air!.

      Reply

    • NicoleG says:

      07:42am | 08/06/11

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY Dash.

      Have a great day   smile

    • loulou says:

      09:38am | 08/06/11

      @Dash   Saw your reply -  thank you.  Now I’m convinced you’re clever - and sort of goodlooking.

    • Dash says:

      11:23am | 08/06/11

      Thanks Nicole and nossy grin

      @Loulou - yes well I re-read what I’d written and it didn’t look good. Only sort of? Come on, you can do better than that! lol

    • Knemon says:

      12:10pm | 08/06/11

      @ Dash - The big four O, have a good one…remember, “Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul” - Samuel Ullman.

      The problem with Wayne Swan and the ALP is they couldn’t sell heaters in Siberia. IMO there should be some incentive to attract investment in the renewable energy sector (RES)...what is the most equitable way to achieve this? You obviously don’t believe that a carbon tax is a way of achieving this, so assuming you agree that we should be treating the RES more seriously - what would you suggest we do?

      Cheers, I’ll knock the top off one or two for you later wink

    • RyaN says:

      01:51pm | 08/06/11

      @Dash: what I don’t understand is why they even bother with this whole hoopla, its not as if the Labor party is actually going to represent the will of the majority of the people in this matter anyway, they are going to just do as their commie minds please and introduce this carbon tax without a mandate and against the will of the people.

    • ausspud says:

      02:26pm | 08/06/11

      yes happy day of your birth
      and if swan says everything will be sweet u know were screwed.

    • Dash says:

      05:06pm | 08/06/11

      Hi Knemon, thanks for the birthday wishes!

      My view is that we should not be talking about cutting Co2 emmissions without a discussion about alternative energy sources! That includes a discussion about Nuclear energy. The quickest and easiest way to reduce emmissions is to move to nuclear power as they are doing in the UK. That would allow us to meet our targets would reduce or at worst maintain our energy costs and it would remove the need fora carbon tax all together.

      If the cost benefit doesn’t stake up, then we should turn our minds to what viable alternatives we should be putting money into. A Market mechinism is fine. But I do not agree with firstly blindly introducing a tax without a targeted alternative in mind. And I definately do not agree with a compensation scheme which devides our community and places the cost burden at the feet of families on the basis of income alone. If you choose who wears the cost on the basis of income, it ceases to be a free market mechanism.

      The fact that the ALP will only use half of the revenue to compensate families means that only a certain section of the community wears the cost despite their carbon footprint.

      The complaint I have is the way the ALP has tried to deliver this, the hiding of information from the community the fact that half of our society has no representation on the committee and the fact that the ALP are turning this into some kind of wealth redistribution exercise.

    • acotrel says:

      07:26am | 08/06/11

      I don’t feel that someone is watching me - I know it!  If you play the game straight, it’s very difficult for anyone to get at you. I worked in sensitive areas for many years, and I expect vigilance from our intelligence agencies.  As far as politicians are concerned .. well, you know what they can do! Rupert Murdoch is something else.

      Reply

    • nihonin says:

      08:08am | 08/06/11

      I always have a feeling, that both the State & Federal Governments are watching my wallet.

    • Harriet says:

      07:40am | 08/06/11

      So Tony’s latest stunt is to fly to Naura.
      So why does he want a GOVERNMENT Jet. Why are taxpayers forking out for his fantasy flight.

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      08:57am | 08/06/11

      Why are taxpayers forking out for the ALPs carbon tax propaganda campaign?
      Why did the taxpayers fork out to to bail out the government under the insulation fiasco?
      Why did taxpayers fork out to pay for APL backed builders to rort the BER scheme?
      Why did taxpayers pay $13m for the ALP not to deliver grocery choice? Why did taxpayers fork out $23m for the ALP not to deliver fuelwatch?
      Why did taxpayers fork out for Rudd to hand $900 to dead people?
      Why are taxpayers forking out for Rudd to bribe his way into the UN?
      Why are taxpayers forking out a flood levy because of the ALPs incompetence in Queensland?
      Why did the taxpayers fork out for a 2020 sumitt that came to nothing?
      Why are taxpayers forking out for ALP hand picked “climate experts” to prepare reports telling us what the ALP want us to hear?

      And if the ALP could manage the illegal boat arrivals, there would be no issue!

    • Aitch B says:

      09:02am | 08/06/11

      @Harriet

      The leader of the Opposition has similar rights to the Prime Minister in regard to the use of Commonwealth jets for overseas travel.

      No doubt It would have been approved by some government department so what’s the problem?

      I can certainly see why you’re having a whinge about going to Nauru - I can’t see the point in anybody going there at this point in time.

    • Harriet says:

      09:39am | 08/06/11

      Abbott the hypocrite
      Abbott the stunt man
      Abbott the doom merchant
      Abbott the 24/7 energiser bunny
      Abbott constantly touring at TAXPAYER expense
      Abbott never at home
      Abbott the media junky
      Abbott the press release king

    • Aitch B says:

      10:26am | 08/06/11

      Harriet the ALP junkie!! smile

    • Steve says:

      11:29am | 08/06/11

      Abbott, Morrison fly off to pacific bird midden. Same dung heap, different flies

    • nossy says:

      11:43am | 08/06/11

      @Harriet - in all fairness to Abbott Harriet as leader of the Opposition he is entitled to vist such places as would Gillard if she was Oppn leader.

    • Harriet says:

      12:39pm | 08/06/11

      Yes nossy Abbott can visit wherever he wants but we all know it is for local (as in Australia) political gain. You know he is campaigning and so do I and even Abbott’s favorites the Rooty Hill lot can figure that out.

      As the next Federal election is due in 2013, let the Liberal party pay for Abbott’s electioneering and not the taxpayer.

    • nossy says:

      01:48pm | 08/06/11

      @Harriet - you are tougher on Abbott than my good self Harriet - I give you the “new” nossy Punchers - I am but a pussycat in comparison !  hahahha

    • Anubis says:

      02:06pm | 08/06/11

      @ Harriet

      GILLARD the hypocrite
      GARRET the stunt man
      FLANNERY the doom merchant
      RUDD the 24/7 energiser bunny
      RUDD constantly touring at TAXPAYER expense
      RUDD never at home
      RUDD the media junky
      BROWN the press release king

      See how easy it is Harriet

    • Dave-o says:

      03:46pm | 08/06/11

      @Dash you snide little hack. Queensland had insurance. The federal government is always going to be responsible for the repair of federal infrastructure. The federal government wasn’t insured against disaster nut I guess when you have an agenda common sense takes a back seat.

    • Dash says:

      04:12pm | 08/06/11

      Dave - o - sticks and stones mate. I never said they didn’t have insurance! Just that they were incompetent. The contributory negligence of the State ALP is being widely debated.

      Gee I better not tell you the industry I work in! LOL

      You got one thing right, there ain’t much common sense around the ALPs Carbon Tax!

    • Dave-o says:

      05:32pm | 08/06/11

      No common sense in carbon tax huh? So the economists who designed and shaped the economy we live in now are wrong? I guess we should let the Ray Hadley’s and Alan Jones’ of the world run the treasury surely a return to Reaganomics will deliver us the wealth we so desperately yearn for. 

      Contributory negligence? Had the government operated Wivenhoe perfectly it would have only had a slight mitigating effect on some properties in Brisbane while contributing to worse flooding in the Brisbane Valley. As for raising the dam protection the only politician in the last 20 years interested in doing that was Jim Soorley.

      But thats Brisbane, for the other 75% of the state which would be more land mass than NSW and Victoria combined there was little that could be done but somehow there is a widespread myth of Bligh failure. Reality is just a pack of lazy neo-cons riding on the back of misery for political point scoring.

      So you must either work in insurance or government right?

    • acotrel says:

      07:48am | 08/06/11

      Full credit where it’s due.  The Baillieu government in Victoria has promised to spend on infrastructure to develop regional areas.  I perceive only one problem.  There is a fundamental skill often missing from our population of public service engineers.  Project Managent is rarely taught on a formal basis, and many engineers cannot even use the available software packages.  Project management involves efficient control of construction processes, and development of task lists.  It includes resource, and budget control, so that projects are delivered on time, and under budget.  It is about systematically controlling processes, and avoiding debacles such as the pink batts, and the school halls. It is taught in only one course at Goulburn Ovens TAFE - information technology, and this shows how out of touch our academics really are! If they’d ever done a real job, they’d understand the importance of including it in engineering courses.

      Reply

    • AnthonyG says:

      08:41am | 08/06/11

      you sick Alcotrel ? your starting to make some sense

    • ausspud says:

      02:30pm | 08/06/11

      acotrel your scaring me.

    • acotrel says:

      09:44pm | 08/06/11

      This is not the only time Bauillieu has made sense.  It might become a habit with him.  For a Lib to be constructive is a bit of a first?

    • Dave-o says:

      07:57am | 08/06/11

      We never had to read 1984 at school. Although I’m fairly sure if combined all the essay’s I wrote on Animal Farm over the years it would exceed the length of the actual book.

      Must be a part of the evil socialist agenda the education department is running to keep us complacent for ruling Labor governments…...

      Reply

    • Dan says:

      12:30pm | 08/06/11

      wasn’t the point of animal farm that socialism is just state based capitalism and nothing improves for the ordinary person? Look at what happened to the ‘true believer’ (Boxer).

      I love George Orwell’s writing, 1984 changed the way I see the world. Absolutely brilliant book. I like animal farm too - “all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others”

    • Gerard says:

      07:13pm | 08/06/11

      Animal Farm wasn’t really critical of socialism as a doctrine (Orwell was a socialist), it was critical of Stalin and the way socialism was implemented and used as a pretext for violence and persecution.

      I never read Nineteen Eighty-Four at school either. It seems kind of ironic that government schools would force people to read a piece of literature decrying the ability of governments to dictate what literature people read.

    • Gaz says:

      08:00am | 08/06/11

      Just heard John Farnham is going to tour again to celebrate 25 years since your the voice was released. How man tours has he done since ‘the last time’ tour?

      Reply

    • Jay-ded says:

      01:00pm | 08/06/11

      None. 

      Because each one is his “last time” tour.  hehehe smile

    • Phil says:

      08:09am | 08/06/11

      Yeah its google doing all the watching.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      08:27am | 08/06/11

      Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you….

      Reply

    • nossy says:

      09:02am | 08/06/11

      @persephone - good one pers - I bet MarK is still reading you !

    • Ben81 says:

      01:55pm | 08/06/11

      Watch out for those black helicopters

    • St. Michael says:

      03:04pm | 08/06/11

      They’ve only been out to get me since they started plotting against me.

    • persephone says:

      07:31pm | 08/06/11

      nossy

      noticed how many other posters vanished with him?

      Sock puppets? Or did their contracts run out at the same time?

    • kirsty says:

      08:33am | 08/06/11

      Thought I would share this article (courtesy of Sam de Brito) regarding self respect.  I think it is a good read and made me think about society today and the way we view ourselves in the world.  I especially like the point people with self-respect have the courage of their mistakes and know the price of things. 
      http://profacero.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/joan-didion-on-self-respect/

      Reply

    • Max Redlands says:

      08:34am | 08/06/11

      Orwell’s fictional works are OK - some e.g. Animal Farm better than other’s e.g. A Clergyman’s Daughter. Better in my opinion are those novels based in fact: Down and Out in Paris & London, The Road to Wigan Pier, Homage to Catalonia amongst others.

      Even better (imho) are his articles and essays such as Politics and the English Language, Notes on Nationalism and the Volumes of his Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters.

      Reply

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      08:54am | 08/06/11

      Max, just finishing Down and Out in Paris and London. I’d have to agree.

      Thanks to the poster here who recommended it a few week back - it puts perspective into real poverty and how welfare has changed since the thirties.

      The author also provides his insight on work, religious charity and woman. Even though it was written in the 30’s, I’m sure I’ve read various reincarnations of his views here in the Punch comments.

    • James1 says:

      08:55am | 08/06/11

      Agree 100 percent on the essays.  While I am a huge fan of his novels, and of course Burmese Days, you can’t go past his essays.  Politics and the English Language changed the way I looked at English prose writing for political and academic purposes, and The Hanging changed the way I looked at the death penalty,  It is rare to find such power in short tracts these days.

    • kirsty says:

      08:45am | 08/06/11

      Today on the train I noticed that the Apple Zombies are made worse when they have an iPad.  Now instead of focusing on their iPod when they should be focusing on walking up the stairs they focus on their iPad which is much larger and seemingly more distracting.

      Reply

    • fairsfair says:

      09:07am | 08/06/11

      I can’t wait for the inevitible facebook updates “does anyone know where I can get he screen replaced on my iPad for cheap?”.

      I am so glad I am not a loser like them.

      wink

    • kirsty says:

      10:16am | 08/06/11

      As you say I think it is inevitable.  It’ll be like the woman who was checking her phone and walked into the fountain but on a larger scale.  On a positive note they may be more difficult to drop in the toilet which seems to happen a lot with smaller electronics (judging by Facebook comments).

    • fairsfair says:

      10:23am | 08/06/11

      I noticed this particular product in some junkmail I received yesterday:

      http://conexus.com.au/detail.php?item=NUH005

      I can’t wait to see business people Australia wide purchasing this handset and the subsequent gel covers that will soon be available.

      WTF is that about ?!?!?

    • Jay-ded says:

      01:57pm | 08/06/11

      @ ff - sort of defeats the purpose of having a mobile doesn’t it?

    • fairsfair says:

      08:49am | 08/06/11

      On this day in 71,
      Out you shot like a flash.
      Were you christened Brian, Fredrick or Jerry?
      Who cares, we’ll run with Dash.

      Now I’m sure your mum would disagree,
      About the ease with which you arrived.
      But there is just no doubting how much, Dash
      How much that you have thrived.

      You are a regular here on The Punch,
      A place frequented to fight and chat.
      Your political persuasion is certainly kept,
      Kept right above your hat.

      You tell us that you’re an accountant,
      Someone who works with cash.
      But your hatred of Gillard rages,
      As much as Harquebus’ for Flash.

      You are a lover of music and the arts,
      Your poetry unlike mine has soul.
      You are in no danger of losing your title, Dash
      Nor your secret love for Nicole.

      And now it is your Birthday Dash,
      Today you farewell the years of thirty.
      And I just don’t care what the others say,
      I don’t think your nerdy.

      It is crystal clear that I lack talent,
      I am clearly not on a roll!
      So I will simply wish you a happy fortieth, Dash
      You glorious, glorious arsehole.

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY DASH!

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      09:09am | 08/06/11

      Wow, Fairsfair - that was awesome. Thanks so much, you’ve made my day!! grin

      It’s scary how much I’ve given away over the Punch. And I’m not, Brian, Frederick or Jerry! And yes I do love Nicole! And I love you too!

      Who called me nerdy?? I think Badger’s called me worse - lol

      To be honest, I don’t feel a day over 39!

    • Elphaba says:

      09:26am | 08/06/11

      Bloody hell, everyone is a poet.

      Happy Birthday Dash! grin

      On my mind today is the fact that MetStore is releasing a Metallica Monopoly game!  Must own…

      I love 1984, one of my favourite books.

    • James1 says:

      09:32am | 08/06/11

      My praise for this peom in haiku form:

      Watch the words flowing;
      The beauty conveyed thereby;
      Makes my morning bright.

    • TimB says:

      09:37am | 08/06/11

      It’s like dueling poets around here….

      Well done Fairs wink

      And a happy Birthday to Dash too!

    • fairsfair says:

      10:01am | 08/06/11

      LOL. That is the worst poem I have ever read! And recognition to Bec, glorious areseholes is my all time favourite quip.

      Nerdy was really the only thing that rhymed with thirty Dash, I am sure Badger would have said it at one point though wink

      Please accept my formal resignation from the Poetry duel, I shall leave it to the adults :D (however I probably would pull a John Farnham at the opportunity of a limerick comp - ooh I have quite a back catalogue of those, some of which may be clean enough to share).

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      10:06am | 08/06/11

      To the poets - well done. In keeping with literary theme, berets and Gauloises for all.

    • Dash says:

      11:12am | 08/06/11

      Fairsfair, yeah lets get some of your limericks on The Punch!

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:17pm | 08/06/11

      Well done Fairs, top effort.

      And, just to let you know, its my birthday on Saturday…...

      *cough*

    • fairsfair says:

      01:09pm | 08/06/11

      Dave, I’ll try and come up with some Davetastic Limerick for Friday. Dash, you’re still running with your Friday bloody poem aren’t you?

      The two cleanest I can remember off the top of my head involve doodles. I fear I will be judged. All this pretending to be a lady is taking its toll wink

    • Jay-ded says:

      01:53pm | 08/06/11

      You young whippersnappers make me feel old.  Oh to be 40 again!  smile

      Happy Birthday Dash.

    • Dash says:

      02:06pm | 08/06/11

      @Fairsfair - If I can get away with a poem about “Boobies” as I did two weeks ago, you can get away with poetry about doodles! In fact that has the makings of a hillarious topic. You have to post them now. We know you’re a lady.

      Yeah the “Bloody Aussie Battler” poem has been reviewed and approved by Tory. I’ve run a couple by her mainly for some moral support that they are not completely crap!

    • fairsfair says:

      03:00pm | 08/06/11

      You’ve twisted my arm! I have to say I am really nervous as to the reaction, you’ve probably heard them anyway.

      Old King Cole had a forty foot pole
      He showed it to the lady next door.
      She thought it was a snake so she hit it with a rake
      And now its only four foot four.

      Not to be outdone by:

      There was a young man from kent
      Whose tool in the middle was bent.
      To save him some trouble he stuck in double
      And instead of coming he went.

      I am so not a lady and thanking the lord I am under the protection of ‘fairsfair’ (we won’t mention Sharwood recently outing me in the most public of ways).

    • Dash says:

      03:39pm | 08/06/11

      @Fairsfair - they are very funny! You’ll need to write some more! ONLY Four foot four?? wink

      And yes, Tory has my full identity now so I’m at her mercy too!

    • NicoleG says:

      03:55pm | 08/06/11

      Bad Sharwood! I just knew it was you ff!!!!

    • Ed Balls says:

      09:20pm | 09/06/11

      As an Australian of Irish descent,I’ll add a rude limerick myself

      There once was a Bey of Algiers
      Who said to his harem, “My dears
      You may think it odd of me,
      I’ve given up sodomy”
      To which they replied with loud cheers

      I think good old Dad picked this up in WW2, when he was with the 9th Div in Egypt..
      Apparently,there was also a street in Alexandria called “The Street of a Thousand Arseholes”.The mind boggles.
      Truly great Aussies all the boys in the 9th.

    • Tubesteak says:

      08:53am | 08/06/11

      I didn’t read the book in high school but read it later purely in the interests of pleasure and enjoyed it.

      The scary thing is, the more you look around, the more life comes to resemble things from the book. I’m mainly talking about Newspeak and government promises (your chocolate rations have been increased - when in fact they have been decreased).

      Anyway, it’s a great book and I recommend it to everyone. I even have the movie!

      Reply

    • fairsfair says:

      09:09am | 08/06/11

      I have never read this book. I think I’ll have to buy it.

      My highschool reading list included “Looking for Alibrandi” and “The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole” and what a top couple of reads they were!

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      09:29am | 08/06/11

      I had to read Jane Austen for the HSC! That was painful. I loved Othello though and I loved Colleridge’s “Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner”. Oh and I loved John Donne too. At the time I thought his poem “The Flea” was hillarious. Oh to be 17 again!

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:37am | 08/06/11

      I had to read Austen as well for my HSC. I didnt actually read it, but english was never about knowing the text.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:41am | 08/06/11

      I did Austen and Mary Shelley at Uni. I chose some dumb subject like English Romanticism and spent most of the time trying to work out why I had an inapropriate crush on the lecturer. I am laughing now, because I am comparing all of these to Adrian Mole which included an entire chapter on the street party organised by his mother for Charles and Di’s wedding…

      We were also lucky enough (in 2000 I might add) to do a film study on “Witness”. Remember that Harrison Ford Amish movie from the early 80s? Oh man, they were so slow to update the curriculum in the late 90s!

      I am glad I didn’t have to do HSC. Even though QCS required a bit more of a sustained effort, the idea of all that cramming was frightening. Doing the actual QCS test was almost fun. It sounds wrong to say that when you hear what NSW kids have to go through.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:51am | 08/06/11

      Thanks Elphaba. I do read, a lot, but really mostly the same authors and types of story (Marian Keyes, Janet Evanovich etc). So pointless chick lit really.

      I’d be interested to know of any other timeless classics that people would recommend? This is definately on the list as it To Kill a Mockingbird. I might shop up a storm on book depository oh and I’ll have to head out and buy another bookshelf too…

    • Rowdy says:

      10:08am | 08/06/11

      I’m hearing you Dash….I think we must have finished school around the same time!! I did Jane Austen…and Donne. I also remember Catcher in the Rye in Yr11…that was ok. But Equus by Peter Shaffer…..that was some f&*$ed up sh*t right there…a great play and an eye-opener for a 16-17 year old.

      Oh BTW Happy Birthday Dash…

      Keep jammin’...

    • Elphaba says:

      10:14am | 08/06/11

      @fairsfair:

      Brave New World
      The Great Gatsby
      The Catcher In The Rye
      Of Mice & Men
      The Turn Of The Screw

      Personal favourites (not necessarily classics)

      River God & The Seventh Scroll (Wilbur Smith)
      The Jungle (Upton Sinclair) - try to get the unabridged version - http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Complete-Unabridged-Upton-Sinclair/dp/1617200514/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307491940&sr=8-1
      One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest (Ken Kesey)
      Kane & Abel (Jeffrey Archer)
      Life of Pi (Yann Martel)
      Jeffrey Deaver’s ‘Lincoln Rhyme’ series
      Blind Faith (Ben Elton)

      And I love Philippa Gregory’s ‘Tudor’ series - novelisations of the Tudor dynasty.  Pulpy and historical all in one.  Bliss. grin

      There are many more, I have to mentally comb through the bookshelf…

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      11:02am | 08/06/11

      A short selection FairsFair - something for every mood.
      Crime and Punishment.
      For Whom the Bell Tolls
      My Brother Jack
      The Caine Mutiny
      Brave New World (thanks for reminder Elphaba)
      Papillion
      The Wasp Factory
      A Fortunate Life
      The Kite Runner
      The Carpet Wars (not strictly a classic, but for me an unexpected and welcome visitor to my shelves)

      And without starting a religious debate, lets add the Bible and the Koran as well.

    • Dash says:

      11:07am | 08/06/11

      Rowdy, yeah I did Equus too. We obviously finished about the same time. How weird was that text!

      Thanks man, I’ll keep jammin’. I’m in the process of making my second guitar. It’s a Tele thinline, a maple body with a Walnut top. American Maple neck with a rosewood finger board. It’s looking good so far. I’m just about ready to french polish it. Maybe I should put some pics of it up? It’s only my 12th guitar - lol

      Oh and got a copy of Crusin’ Deuces’ by Danny Gatton last week. Just fantastic! His Tele sound is awesome.

      Oh fairsfair you are so young!!!

    • Elphaba says:

      11:26am | 08/06/11

      Oooh, LJD, The Kite Runner was wonderful. There was much sobbing done by me.  For someone who has English as a second language, Hosseini’s writing was so lyrical.  Great book.

      Did you read A Thousand Splendid Suns?  What did you think?

    • Rowdy says:

      11:42am | 08/06/11

      Dash….Mmmm…thinline tele….you obvioulsy have more woodworking skills than I…I can barely use a hammer…those left handed hammers are a killer!!

      Cruisin’ Deuces is a good record…the guy was/is amazing. Blues, jazz, rockabilly, bluegrass…a walking encyclopedia. 88 Elmira St is also a good ‘un! His right hand technique was flawless….

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:21pm | 08/06/11

      We did MacBeth, To Kill a Mockingbird, Lord of the Flies….and something else I can’t recall….but will no doubt wake up at 3am next Thursday and sit up in bed and say ‘*insert name of book here*!!’

      I do remembe rfor some strange reason, in English in grade 10…so around 1988…..for some reason we had to listen over and over again to the Rolling Stones ‘Mothers Little Helper’ and discuss the lyrics and crap….

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      12:37pm | 08/06/11

      I don’t know how he does it Elphaba. It’s as though when learning the language, he has managed to crystallise the best of the English language.

      A Thousand Splendid Suns, a great title and a very good book. But since I read both back to back - it seemed to lack the authenticity of the Kite Runner. I’ll put it down to the author trying to convey the experience of someone (Mariam) that he can empathise with, but cannot quite identify with.

      As for the sobbing? Well ..  let’s just say I had to abandon the book during my daily commute. Though, at the time I did appreciate the free space as seats mysteriously appeared around me during peak hour.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      12:50pm | 08/06/11

      Maybe we should have a Punch reading club… I’m always looking for ways to get out of my book rut.

      Wow, ‘rut’ is a weird word, huh?

      At uni I actually took a subject called Science Fiction, Fantasy and Crime. Best. Subject. Ever.

    • AnthonyG says:

      12:57pm | 08/06/11

      I’m a bit of a Charles Schultz fan myself

    • Dash says:

      12:57pm | 08/06/11

      Rowdy, the body is the easy part (except with the thinline the ‘f’ holes were cut by hand which was nerve racking and time consuming). The neck is the challenge. Particularly getting the truss rod right and the fretting can be difficult!

      You just need a couple of tools and a steady hand and plenty of planning. I enjoy making guitars you can’t get in the shops. So this guitar has a maple body and walnut top with matching f’holes and wooden binding. And you can’t buy a French Polished guitar anymore! The other one I’ve made was a telecaster with p90s in it. You should give it a go!

      You need a band saw and a router and you need a set of good plans which you can get off the net. You can get some amazing timber to use as well. My next project is going to be one made purely out of Australian timber. I already have a beautiful piece of Queensland Maple for the body and I’m going to use Tassie Oak for the neck. I picked up a nice piece of African Ebony for the fingerboard too (although that was very expensive).

      Yeah Gatton was awesome! 88Elmira was the first record of his I bought. His rockabilly technique was flawless! He sure was the humbler!

    • fairsfair says:

      01:04pm | 08/06/11

      I’d be up for that Tors. You are our very own Jennifer Byrne but I refuse to take the mantle of Marieke Hardy.

      Best subject I did at uni was Forensic Anthropology. There were some really good books with really good pictures in that one. Very interesting indeed. I also learned how to dispose of a body in the correct manner. It may or may not come in handy in future wink I can recommend “The Bone Woman” by Clea Koff. Very interesting if anyone is partial to tales from Rwanda and Kosovo.

      Sadly, JCU Cairns offered Tree Science and Science of Trees with nothing much inbetween :( I am a tad jealous of your actual education.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:59pm | 08/06/11

      @LDJ, thankfully my sobbing moment happened at home on the couch - away from prying eyes.  I agree re: Suns, it was great, but it just felt like it fell slightly short.  I think you’re right - dealing with a woman’s perspective proved a bit more difficult.

      Tors, great idea.  If there was some way the Punch could do a book-of-the-month (or whatever timeline suits) discussion, I’d be in.

    • Anubis says:

      02:10pm | 08/06/11

      fairsfair - 1984 is available through Project Gutenberg for download

    • Knemon says:

      02:33pm | 08/06/11

      @ fairsfair - It mightn’t be a timeless classic but the best book I have ever read about Australian history is ‘The Fatal Shore’ by Robert Hughes…I strongly recommend it…should be compulsory reading in all Australian high schools.

    • Anubis says:

      03:12pm | 08/06/11

      @ Knemon - Read the Fatal Shore with the proverbial pinch of salt. The book is a work of fiction and contains gross exaggerations and nonfactual representations of the convict system

    • James1 says:

      04:08pm | 08/06/11

      I’m currently reading The Thirteenth Valley by John M. Delvechio.  It is a war fiction masterpiece in the vein of The Naked and the Dead or The Thin Red Line.  Absolutely brilliant in terms of getting an insight into the lives of enlisted men in the Vietnam war.

      Also highly recommended in the war fiction genre are the obvious like those mentioned above, All Quiet on the Western Front, and Seigfried Sassoon’s Memoirs of an Infantry Officer, and the less well known Fields of Fire by James Webb.

    • AnthonyG says:

      04:33pm | 08/06/11

      My favorites are The Cattle King about the legendy Sid Kidman and A Fortunate Life about Birt Facey’s Life. You could throw anything at that man but he just picks himself up and soldiers on without a complaint. A true Legend. I would advise everyone to read them.

    • The Badger says:

      05:41pm | 08/06/11

      Fairsfair I have some really light reading for you.
      These are just really happy books.

      A Fine Balance -  Rohinton Mistry
      The Grapes of Wrath - John Steinbeck
      Shantaram - Gregory David Roberts

    • Q says:

      09:18am | 08/06/11

      I’ve read it a few times and also read Brave New World at high school.  I think it should still be read at school, the kids today will be able to see more clearly the political double speak that is prevelant in govt today.

      Reply

    • Kevin Rennie says:

      09:31am | 08/06/11

      Big Brother is lstening in Victoria. From my post for Global Voices about the netizen reponse to Australia’s Swear-In:

      “This issue has caused a lot of web chatter in places other than the usual suspects: mostly outrage or disbelief, mixed with a lot of humour.

      The swear-in rally drew a smaller crowd than had indicated their intention to attend on Facebook. Perhaps the f**kwalk on 25 June, 2011, based on the recent slutwalk, will have more success.”
      Fine is a Four-Letter Word http://t.co/GPCwdRV

      Reply

    • NSW says:

      09:33am | 08/06/11

      Kirsty - When I see an apple zombie I usually have a glance to see at what they are staring at. I’ve noticed a rise in the zombies staring at the cheat application for words with friends. Are these zombies so illiterate they have to cheat on this game? What is the point to playing if you are just going to cheat?

      Reply

    • bella starkey says:

      01:05pm | 08/06/11

      They have this? This does explain how some very illiterate acquaintances manage to thrash some very clever friends of mine on a regular basis using those words that everyone looks at and goes “that’s not a real word”.

      I played words with friends for a short time with my mum. She kept on harassing me when I was at work to play with her so deleted it.

    • wolf says:

      09:47am | 08/06/11

      I specifically requested pictures of cats.  With an amusing caption.

      I’m still waiting…

      Reply

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      12:21pm | 08/06/11

      Geeeze HSC… -  was teaching HSC students once.
      But yes I read Jane Austen, for the Leaving.
      Can I add
      Vance Palmer’s “The Passage”
      Love Hemmingway, Du Mauria, Buck, Waugh, DH Lawrance, hated Steinbeck.
      Then jumped ship to non-fiction for more than 30 years
      Catch 22 is definitely my bible.

      Reply

    • Max Redlands says:

      01:16pm | 08/06/11

      I mostly go for non-fiction these days too. History and biographies in particular.

      Don’t have much time for any fiction written post WWII (‘tho Fleming’s Bond novels are enjoyable escapist pulp).

      As for favourites and recommendations I agree with Elphaba -The Great Gatsby is a must read, to which I would add:
      War & Peace
      Dubliners,Portarit of the Artist as Young Man & Ulysses
      Heart of Darkness
      Short stories of Henry Lawson
      Presently on my “to do” list as far as fiction goes: Anna Karenina, The Life & Opinions of Tristram Shandy and Moby Dick.

      Favourite “non-fiction” novels include:

      Goodbye to All That - Robert Graves
      Hells Angels - Hunter S. Thompson
      The Right Stuff - Tom Wolfe

      As well as Lawson’s stories favoured Australian works;

      The Harp in the South - Ruth Park
      Wake in Fright - Kenneth Cook

    • Elphaba says:

      01:55pm | 08/06/11

      @Max, I took on Anna Karenina - Levin’s arduous self-reflection almost got the better of me a few times…

      Still I made it all the way through. grin

      I can’t belive Baz Luhrmann is going to do a film of Gatsby - the horror. I will see it for research purposes, but I’m worried about Lurhmann’s penchant for the whimsical…

    • Jay-ded says:

      02:03pm | 08/06/11

      Three men in a boat. 

      Totally hilarious!  Likes Joining Dots has added all the other books I would recommend.

    • Max Redlands says:

      02:44pm | 08/06/11

      @ Jay-ded - Yes I enjoyed that one too - a long time ago now.

      @ Elphaba - Like you when i heard about Baaaaaaz doing Gatsby I was horrified. It’s been a while since the idea was first mentioned and I haven’t heard much about it lately. With any luck the idea has withered on the vine. (I’ll have to check it out).

      Who would do a good take do you think??

      The Cohen Brothers?Sofia Coppola?Tarantino?

      Re Karenina I have been inspired to read it as I opened it at random the other day to read this - it reminded me of something off of Blood on the Tracks:

      “Love,” she repeated slowly, in an inner voice, and suddenly, at the very instant she unhooked the lace, she added, “Why I don’t like the word is that it means too much to me, far more than you can understand,” and she glanced into his face. “Au revoir!”

    • Elphaba says:

      03:27pm | 08/06/11

      @Max, 2012 apparently (according to Wiki).

      Sofia would definitely direct the sensitive version.  It’d all be shot in soft focus.  I don’t think the material is meaty enough for Tarantino.  What about Guy Ritchie? He could take what he did with Sherlock… nope, sorry, can’t finish that thought, because now I have the giggles…

      That is like Blood On The Tracks!  I never thought of that before…

    • Max Redlands says:

      04:09pm | 08/06/11

      Thanks E.

      Not great news I guess. Like you I will see it anyway and hope he doesn’t totally trash it.

      Di Caprio as Gatsby is an obvious choice but it makes sense.

      Joel Rdgerton as tom Buchanan? - never heard of him!

    • Elphaba says:

      08:53pm | 08/06/11

      @Max, maybe the Apocalypse will kick in and save us all from the misery. wink

    • Harquebus says:

      01:10pm | 08/06/11

      The biggest joke with the climate debate is, there ain’t no such thing a renewable energy. I am having a great laugh watching these idiots try to explain perpetual energy and taxing us into using it.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      02:13pm | 08/06/11

      Fortunately we have a giant fusion reactor relatively close by that is pumping a ridiculous amount of energy onto the Earth, if only we can find ways to exploit it.  We expect that reactor to keep going for over a billion years, which will probably see our species extinct.  You may know that fusion reactor as “the Sun”.  Most people do.

    • iansand says:

      09:11pm | 08/06/11

      All that has failed is your imagination.  The energy is there.  All we have to do is harvest it.

    • Harquebus says:

      07:25pm | 09/06/11

      You said it again iansand. Talk is cheap.

    • Jim (remember him?) says:

      01:25pm | 08/06/11

      Back in your actual 1984, I mentioned ruefully to workmates that Orwell’s “newspeak” certainly seemed to have come true. I was contradicted by several spokespersons.

      Reply

    • Elphaba says:

      01:42pm | 08/06/11

      Do you remember the NRMA ads either last yea or the year before (they might even be using them still), with the tagline ‘Unworry’?

      My first thought was Newspeak.  I shuddered every time I saw those ads…

    • Jay-ded says:

      03:49pm | 08/06/11

      Yeah everyone’s using unworry now.  Would you believe it’s even the name of a horse!

    • ausspud says:

      02:43pm | 08/06/11

      if your after fantasy i hear david hicks has a new book out,but dont buy it so the idiot doesnt make a cent.

      Reply

    • thatmosis says:

      04:16pm | 08/06/11

      Oh dear oh dear, caught out once again lying to the people of Australia. First it was “no carbon tax under a governent I lead” and now this. What a crock. How can anybody who can think for themselves belive a word that comes out of the Labor Camp now when they have to stoop this low, What a bunch of morons.
      “Prime Minister Gillard and her government last night ran an advertisement nationwide on all television stations urging Australians to say “yes” to her proposed tax on carbon “pollution”.
      The advertisement features a power station supposedly in Australia belching out carbon “pollution”.
      But the power station is actually in London , UK and is already closed and obsolete.
      These warmists will go to any lengths in their lies.

      Reader Popular Front confirms - the power station that Gillard’s tax will shut is actually in Britain and actually closed already:
      You’re right Walter - it IS Battersea Power Station (now just a shell btw) and they ARE that stupid. Maybe they should add a giant inflatable pig over it, or maybe Richard III doing a swan dive off it.
      Reader the sunshine grocer explains:
      They have shown the old Battersea power station in England because of the “Australian Cringe” Our coal fired power stations are not old and evil enough.
      So this ad claims falsely Gillard’s tax will clean the skies from soot which the ad falsely shows belching from a British station which the ad falsely claims is pumping out pollution today. Could it get any more deceitful? ”

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      06:04pm | 08/06/11

      Marieke Hardy would look best in aquamarine, and the 3 lads sitting opposite her last-night might agree, except A. C. Grayling who was staring at the floor, but didn’t want too.
      The Man Booker Prize winner on this show mentioned a book by Steve Tesich and i nearly fell over : I think he was the scrpt-writer for one of my favourite movies, Breaking Away.
      Must read him now.

      Better than James Bond books is a novel called The Day of The Jackal.
      Not a true story, but probably was.
      And anyone who doesn’t like John Steinbeck books as one of their favourites is sour.

      Reply

    • AnthonyG says:

      07:27pm | 08/06/11

      If you think someone is watching you they probably are. I should know. I have installed covert cameras in horse urinals at the races. In hindu temples. in Wooly’s and Coles Supermarkets in Nursery’s, Service stations,video shops Ive installed cameras in Parlament house underworld figures homes you name it Ive got plenty of stories to.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      08:49pm | 08/06/11

      I can tell you how horses do it now, goofy.
      But if yer really wanna help out, you can put epsom salts up no 5’s bum on the second race at Randwick on saturday….then stand back.

      500 on the nose should do it.

    • AnthonyG says:

      10:08pm | 08/06/11

      And your wife has asked me to put a hidden camera at your place to see what your looking at on your computer at all those odd hours during the night. Steven we know who you are coward

    • AnthonyG says:

      03:25pm | 09/06/11

      Mr Kotter’s going to have his own party hey.
      Well the way I saw the last election because of the way he canned Barnaby Joice and the nationals during the 3 amigos week of torturing the Aussie public while they decided who they would throw their support for. It gave the libs no chance of winning and he only said he supported the Libs after it was game set and match. He is a two faced selfish pig along with the other two dickheads who went against their own electorates for their own personal gains. The 3 have ensured people wont vote for independents in mass ever again. Or any other party that either of these selfish pigs go near

      Reply

    • Anthony Meaney says:

      05:59pm | 09/06/11

      I don’t know that Big Brother is watching Bridget, but I do know that the NSW Dept of Planning,formerly aka PlanningNSW,DUAPP(Dept of Urban Affairs and Planning), has been using Newspeak for years to force their high density policies on the good citizens of NSW.The titles have been changed,not to protect the innocent,but to protect the guilty planners who have stuffed up Sydney planning for the last 20 years.

      Words such as Urban Sprawl gives a sinster interpretation of the perfectly normal Urban Spread that occurs in all cities.Smart Growth( to denote high density living) has been shown on the Save Our Suburbs website at http://www.sos.org.au to be not so smart.

      These are just a few examples of these unelected bureaucrats fooling the general public into thinking medium and high density is good,single residential housing is bad,at the same time ignoring that 83% of Australians prefer to live in single detached housing.

      So,as Orwellian is described on WIKIPEDIA as"connotes an attitude and policy of control by propaganda,surveillance,misinformation,denial of truth and manipulation of the past,including the “unperson’‘’ ‘’,the more I see the NSW Dept of Planning.

      According to the Dept,the Orwellian “unperson” was SOS President Dr Tony Recsei,who was often kept out of planning seminars run by the Dept, so his contrary views couldn’t be heard.

      Another topical example of Newspeak has been the just revealed List of Waiting for Waiting List,to cover up the real Hospital Waiting Lists.Carmel Tebbutt,come on down.

      Yes, as theNSW Dept of Planning and the spinmeisters of the previous disfunctional NSW state Labor government have shown,Orwellianism was alive and flourishing in NSW for the last 16 years,with the general public proles blissfully unaware of their shenanigans

      Reply
 
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