Punch on: Open Thread 2/6/2010

Joan says:

08:57am | 02/06/10

How about all the killing going on in Afghanistan? What is Australia doing there-?

Eric says:

06:40pm | 02/06/10

Good things, Joan. Good things.

T.Chong says:

08:51am | 02/06/10

Annie-The demonstrations here probaly much similar demonstrations in Israel by Israeli nationalists,far right settlers and their equally crazy supporters, who also want death and annihilation brought down upon palestinians, other non jews, and any one who dares question any crime committed by the israeli state.
Why are any ethnic/ religious hatreds allowed to go unchecked anywhere?

Bob Higgs says:

09:17am | 02/06/10

Agree with you Annie - maybe they all deserve each other over there. The rest of the world should just let them fight it out and put a lid on it for a reasonable amount of time, they do not respond to modern diplomacy and reasonable behaviour.  Primitive cultures (and religious cultures are primitive regardless of military hardware) are not able to compromise and know nothing other than religiously justified violence.

Mel says:

12:17pm | 02/06/10

and do you really think they’re going to listen? please, they could have at least waited for the boat to enter their waters before attacking, that was just poor planning

Emma says:

11:54am | 02/06/10

You admit to being a whale killer? What is wrong with you? Do you not understand they are dying out? Do you not get that fish stocks will be wiped out by commercial fishing? Do you really believe that human jobs take precedent over a species extinction? Couldn’t you get in on the beef industry or something else. I call on anyone with a brain to stamp out commercial fishery. I catch my own prawns, squid, fish, mussles and oysters. It is called sustainable living. When whales are gone can I sue you for taking away the opportunity of my grandchildren to see them? I eagerly await your feeble excuses as to why you should be allowed to wipe out a species. I think you keep posting here because you want free advertising, for something most Aussies find distasteful. Meh.

Byro says:

01:07pm | 02/06/10

Thanks for the reply Colgan. Please re-read my post, I think it clearly outlines that I am noting that whaling activists like yourself and Sea Shepard only tell the “anti”-story e.g. anti-whaling, anti-Japanese, anti-Sea Shepard. What about the broader industry story for a change, rather than a predictable or “stereotypical” type reporting on the issue? Or in other words, given that every one knows the court case will fail and Sea Shepard won’t stop the Japs - what is your argument to try to stop whaling, if you really believe in it? (And really Colgo, isn’t widespread Shark finning having a bigger effect on Ocean ecology than whaling mate? Seriously?)

Is that clearer, and how do you respond?

Thanks

Byro says:

01:24pm | 02/06/10

Thanks for the reply Emma, I doubt that most Aussies find it distasteful as they would rise up and stop it. I don’t see any action on the issue, just some predictable writing, that I was having a go at Mr Colgan about.

Zeta says:

01:48pm | 02/06/10

When night falls over the darkest corners of the webbernets, and mysteries need to be solved, the world calls upon ZETA and his sidekick CUTE HIPSTER GIRL to find the answers you seek!

Da da da da da da na na na na na ZETA! Da da da da na na na na na da na na da ZETA!

*In the Zeta Cave, deep beneath Ken’s On Kensington’s:*

Hmmm. Who are these mysterious whale slayers trolling my Punch today, Cute Girl? Quickly! Access the CIA’s secret intelligence depository, codename: GOOGLE!

‘Whalo-King’, claims to be some kind of Japanese whale based sushi chain, hmm? Fetch me a Brandy Alexander immediately! Let’s check thier media releases, while an enourmous image loads, why don’t you put on a pair of tube socks and dance suggestively to this song by Crystal Castles? It’s a high quality photo of a Japanese girl eating photoshopped sushi in front of a lighthouse. That lighthouse bares a striking resemblance to the one that guided me home from a vision quest I embarked upon under the influence of South American psychoactive herb tea Ayhacausa in the early ‘80s… Or perhaps it’s that lighthouse in Byron Bay we were stoned at last week! Quickly Cute Girl! To the Zeta Mobile! We’re going on a road trip!

*Two days later, in Byron Bay.* Buying those cookies off the man in the technicolor dreamcoat was a bad idea Cute Girl. And I’m acutely aware of the fact if we only had an iPad we could have avoided this expensive and ridiculous road trip that has cost the lives of three of our traveling companions and over $3000 worth of high quality opium. With only this broken Nokia NGage and no Wi Fi in sight, let’s break into local National Party member Don Page’s office and rifle through his clippings!

*later, in Don Page’s office*

He won’t mind, we fought together in Malaysia. That man knows twenty ways to kill you, but the jungle… she knows thousands. What’s this? Gold Coast Examiner, 2009 - Mysterious woman ‘Mavis Anthony’  wants to open Whale Sushi restaurant at lighthouse, writes Samantha Turnbull… I wonder if she’s related to the very same Turnbulls descended from the Merovingian kings? 

“The website also lists food products sold by Whalo-King, including chunky minke ice cream, whalo dogs and spermo burgers.”

You think this is some kind of sophisticated troll initiated by internet superheroes Anonymous Cute Girl? I’m not certain. Let’s return to Sydney at once before Don Page emerges from his chrysalis and kills us all!

TO BE CONTINUED: Will Zeta find the answers Colgo seeks through mental telepathy alone? Will Cute Girl convinced Zeta to buy an iPad and take her to the Kings of Leon concert? Who is Mavis Anthony, and did she really donate 15,000 whale heads to the homeless? Can any of us truly know what is really going on in a world so desperately close to the technological singularity? NEXT TIME!

Notorious says:

04:53pm | 02/06/10

“wish to strongly protest about the anti-whaling activist Paul Colgan’s blatant un-Australian misrepresentation”

Byro, get your hand off it.
Firstly you are, as Zeta put it, you are blatantly a troll. Repeating yourself, linking questionable websites as a source, which is just self-promoting / free advertising.
Secondly, and I know how hypocrtical this is, if anything is ‘un-Australian’ it’s telling someone that they’re un-Australian.

Punch team, please keep up or good work of keeping the site troll free, or next thing we know, there will be first posters on The Punch.
No Trolls please!

hermione says:

10:24pm | 02/06/10

The world has changed since the 70s, people are more informed and better educated and this is reflected in our businesses and industry. Unfortunately though, we still have a section of the community whose attitudes are firmly rooted in bias and ignorance.
How can we criticise the Japs for doing exactly the same thing to whales that we do to pigs and cows - at least the whales are roaming free not and jammed in a cage full of their own faeces - and jobs are important - if you don’t have a job in this world, however menial, you’re stuffed. So as much as people shovelling faeces in pig pens are essential to our community, so too are those serving sustainably harvested whale sushi in good restaurants.
It’s time the sentimental voice was rationalised and the whole story told.

BTS says:

11:40am | 02/06/10

Indeed!

Dan says:

11:57am | 02/06/10

Two comments. One, that is a fictional account of the origin of the Palestinians. Second, no matter what you may say, the Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own.

Jenni says:

01:04pm | 02/06/10

Dan - I’m just curious, on what grounds do you state that “no matter what you may say, the Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own”?

I guarantee you, any grounds you might cite for Palestinians being entitled to land of their own can be applied equally to our own indigenous citizens. We the conquerers took their land, devalued them as human beings, and did everything we could to eradicate their culture and way of life - are these the same types of evidence you would present in support of the palestinians?

For the record, I don’t disagree with you, I’m merely playing devil’s advocate and pointing out that if Palestinians are entitled to their own state, so too are our indigenous. Which part of Australia would you like to annexe off give to them?

TheRealDave says:

01:32pm | 02/06/10

Dan,

I’m sorry. In the interests of furthering my ongoing edumacation could you please send me a few links about the historical fight for the ‘Palestinian Homeland’ prior to 1967?

I can wait.

Further, the ‘Palestinians’ were offered their own state and everything they wanted. By Crackafat was ordered by his masters not to accept it. Google it if you wish. Prior to 1967 they weren’t Palestinians, they were called Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese etc I never heard of ANY of those countries offering up their lands to become ‘Palestine’ did you?

I don’t blame you Dan, I blame the meeja and their distorted version of history they are selling.

Dan says:

01:41pm | 02/06/10

Jenni, forgive me,  I was using hyperbole. Yes, there are grounds on which to deny the Palestinians a state, however I would suggest that such grounds are morally and intellectually dubious.

You can’t really compare the Palestinians with the Aborigines. The land that would be given to the Palestinians doesn’t belong to Israel; I’m not talking about annexing any land to give to the Palestinians, unlike with the Aborigines. I’m talking about giving land that most people on each side agrees belongs to the Palestinians.

Dan says:

01:50pm | 02/06/10

TheRealDave, I happen to know some Palestinians who do trace their history before 1967, so you’re wrong in this regard. I don’t need to google anything. Unlike you, I’ve spoken to people and I know what I’m talking about.

Your view of ‘history’, especially that the Palestinians were ‘created’ to kill all the Jews, is offensive and nonsencical. It also does not change the fact that the Palestinians are morally and legally owed a state.

I don’t blame you. Well, actually I do.

John A Neve says:

02:24pm | 02/06/10

TheRealDave,
If any one has history all wrong it is you. There was no state of Israel prior to 1947.
What right had Britain and the League of Nations to partition some one elses land?
Israel now occupies more land than originally mandated for them, there can be no argument that Israel is in the wrong and has been for many years. They have broken or ignored more UN mandates than any other country with no repercussions!!!  You may ask why? Because the good old US or A wants a firm foot in the middle east.

TheRealDave says:

03:15pm | 02/06/10

Forgive the delay, called away.

‘I happen to know a couple of Palestinians’ is reminicent of someone saying ‘I can’t be racist I know a couple of aboriginals’ and the like. I might have met Sheik Hilaly and spoken to him - doesn’t mean I know anything of the history of the region and conflict. Exercise your Google Fu. Knowledge is power and all that guff.

Could you please point out exactly where I said that the ‘Palestinians were created specifically to kill the Jews’ You cannot because I never said that. My exact words were that the ‘Palestinian crisis’ or rather ‘Palestinian Homelands Issue’ was and still is a manufactured issue created by those nations, namely Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, after the 1967 arse kicking. The couldn’t take on and defeat Israel militarily so created the Palestinian crisis as a means of waging a more covert guerilla style war of attrition agains the Israeli’s. I apologise if I was a bit obtuse in my meaning…..

It begs the question - one which I hope you with your broad knowledge onteh subject and because you ‘know some Palestinians’ you could answer for me: If a Palestinian State is such a hotblood issue, people willing to murder busloads of civilians for, and countries like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt etc are willing to wage war for…why then was it not an issue for anyone till after 1967? Till AFTER the area in question was no longer under Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptian etc control?

As for John, again, did I mention that Israel as a nation existed prior to Balfour? No I didn’t. I said the Jews lived in Jerusalem AND the area we now know as Israel since many thousands of years before the Romans and Greeks. Its Islamic myth that there were no Jews in the Middle East until after WW2.

I do agree however that Yes Israel has taken more land than what they were given under Balfour. But I also acknowledge that they took them West Bank and the Golan Heights etc because thats where other nations kept attacking them from. Maybe if those nations - and now the terrorist gtroups they fund, support, equip, harbour etc would stop attacking them then I might care about their ‘plight’.

Look, it doesn’t take Einstein to work out that if the rockets and bombings stopped tomorrow then Israel wouldn’t have a leg to stand on for ANY aggressive action. You and I both know thats not going to happen. You say the US has a vested interest could you please tell me what exactly? What is the US supposedly gaining from this other than sales of military equipment? Of which they sell a buttload more to a lot of other nations. Its not like Israel, the IDF or Mossad bark to Washingtons tune now do they? I could also counter that its a lot more evident that continual strife in Israel and the West Bank is far more beneficial to the rest of the Middle East in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iran. I’ll leave out Iraq and Egypt…and you could initmate Jordan in that group as well since they are trying for more engagement with the west and Israel….but they are only a bullet or two away from being back ‘in the club’.

Dan says:

04:05pm | 02/06/10

” ‘I happen to know a couple of Palestinians’ is reminicent of someone saying ‘I can’t be racist I know a couple of aboriginals’ and the like. I might have met Sheik Hilaly and spoken to him - doesn’t mean I know anything of the history of the region and conflict.” Nonsence. It means that I’ve spoken to Palestinians about their history, which you obviously haven’t.  What does this have to do with racism?

“Exercise your Google Fu. Knowledge is power and all that guff.”

Give me a break. You are the last person to talk to me about knowledge.

Your problem is that you are incredibly condescending and arrogant, yet you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do. Furthermore, you are certainly not the smartest guy in the room.

“Could you please point out exactly where I said that the ‘Palestinians were created specifically to kill the Jews’ ” Saying ‘Palestinians’ weren’t invented until after those nations realised they wouldn’t be able to march in and kill every Jew they could get thier hands upon’ certainly implies it. Regardless, it is simply wrong.

“My exact words were that the ‘Palestinian crisis’ or rather ‘Palestinian Homelands Issue’ was and still is a manufactured issue created by those nations, namely Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, after the 1967 arse kicking. The couldn’t take on and defeat Israel militarily so created the Palestinian crisis as a means of waging a more covert guerilla style war of attrition agains the Israeli’s. I apologise if I was a bit obtuse in my meaning…..” Which is wrong.

“It begs the question - one which I hope you with your broad knowledge onteh subject and because you ‘know some Palestinians’ you could answer for me:” Oh, please. Do you really think that you have a broad knowledge? Because you discovered the wonders of google? You are so arrogant, it’s not funny.

” If a Palestinian State is such a hotblood issue, people willing to murder busloads of civilians for, and countries like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt etc are willing to wage war for…why then was it not an issue for anyone till after 1967?” What makes you think it wasn’t an issue before then?

“Till AFTER the area in question was no longer under Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptian etc control?” It was an issue before then, however many Palestinians would argue that they were treated alot better under Jordan and Egypt than under Israel. 

As I said before, the Palestinians have a moral and legal right to a state of their own. That, and peace, is really the only thing that matters

“Its Islamic myth that there were no Jews in the Middle East until after WW2.”

Islam says no such thing.

I

TheRealDave says:

04:42pm | 02/06/10

Thanks Dan, I eagerly await your next post of ‘My Dad can beat up yours’.

Seeing as though you can’t actually come up with anything of substance to what I’ve said I think we’re done here right?

I eagerly await John’s reply, he may have something we can actually discuss….not unless you actually want to take a crack and have a go at actually countering anything I actually said? Rather than stickingyour fingers in your ears (or in this case eyes) and just quoting my own stuff back to me. Instead of just saying ‘You’re wrong’ show it to me, show it to us all.

TheRealDave says:

01:56pm | 02/06/10

LOL - You are kidding Mrcko..aren’t you? I’ve heard everything now. You might be sick of ‘apologists for Israel’ but you know what, I am sick of people who won’t even acknowledge the facts of something even when they see direct video footage of the incident in question!

Do you also beleive the moon landings were faked? The Zapruder film was doctored? That Bigfoot was caught on film?

I agree the facts speak for themselves

1) Aid convoy organised by organisations known to support terrorist organisations -fact
2) Convoy was attempting to breach Israeli waters and Blockade - fact
3) Armed assailants onboard the ship attacked armed soldeirs roping down onto the ship - fact and we have video evidence proving this.

So what ‘facts’ were you going on again?

Non Jews in Israel treated badly are they? How do the ordinary civilain populaces of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc go? Do they get to vote, get a modern education, have jobs, have access to free media, tv and press etc

I agree that the hard core settle arm of the Jewish population are every bit to blame as the fundy nutjob Muslims - see, as a modern reasonably well educated person free to have my own opinions and such I can reasonably see more than one side to a discussion. Its a pity more of us with modern educations are being force fed mass produced crap from the meeja and are just naively accepting it as gospel. Like you have. Challenge yourself. Show off your Google Fu and read up more.

coldsnacks says:

05:17pm | 02/06/10

My question to you:

If the Palestinians are entitled to having their land back, why don’t they campaign for the land that Jordan took from them as well?

Why did nobody condemn Egypt for it’s blockade of Gaza, to the point it was building reinforced blockades underground to stop tunnelers?

Why does no Pro-Palestinian group ever say “Well, a 2-state solution is the best compromise, let’s go with it”?

TheRealDave says:

06:48pm | 02/06/10

Great questions Coldsnacks. Prepare to be underwhelmed by the screaming race to not answer your questions… 

Amalia Tapp says:

04:49pm | 02/06/10

yes a genuine question

John A Neve says:

07:24am | 03/06/10

TheRealDave,

Sorry, I have no answer, I am as confused, if not more so than any one regarding the law.

I read of cases that to all intent and purpose are the same, but the outcome or sentence is totally different. Wasn’t it Dickens who said the law is an ass?