Punch on: Open thread 15/09/2011

Tim says:

10:30am | 15/09/11

In the final against Australia.

S.L says:

11:02am | 15/09/11

@Tim it’s usually before then they sink so I’ll say semis.

nossy says:

09:22am | 15/09/11

@nossy - heres the article.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/public-servants-invaded-gallipoli-angering-war-heroes/story-e6freuy9-1226137256169

Fiddler says:

09:31am | 15/09/11

so it cost $33,000 a head? Expensive trip

jade says:

09:41am | 15/09/11

Yep, pretty shit of our government.  Digger’s always seem to get the raw end of the deal though in my opinion.

Anna C says:

09:42am | 15/09/11

I’m also sick of seeing our money wasted in this way but it is what I have come to expect from this government.  They have no respect for other people’s money.

Shane From Melbourne says:

10:07am | 15/09/11

I’d pay $3.3 miilion of taxpayer dollars to send 100 public servants to Gallipoli- but only if they were one way flights…...

Tim says:

10:34am | 15/09/11

Yeah,
the Terrorgraph does it again.
Look at the breakdown of costs, the vast majority of the cost was in organising and staging the event not sending pubes over there.
But I’d never expect the DT to let facts get in the way of a headline.

Fiddler says:

10:49am | 15/09/11

@Tim how or why should it cost that much? I am sure if you went to a travel agent and asked for 100 tickets return flight to Turkey with accomodation for a few nights they could do it for a hell of a lot less than thirty three grand a pop

Economist says:

12:45pm | 15/09/11

LOL, Tim appeals to common sense have no place on the Punch. You don’t expect people to actually read the article do you? Personally the article is a little all over the place but lets look at some of the breakdown provided. $2.2 million was given to the private sector for setting the event up so that leaves %1.1 million for the the servants. The article states $320000 and breaks these costs down further but it’s unclear if this was for 25 DVA staff or the whole 100? Either way its probably in line with departmental travel expenditure guidelines.

The ABC staff are on a different budget, so I assume their costs were added in later to further exaggerate the figure? Or perhaps DFaT decided to fund it, but unlikely..

As for the 100 staff you’ve got government ministers and say two advisers i.e. chief of staff and media adviser. You’ve got departmental representatives from Defence, Veteran Affairs and DFAT, again you’d have the key staff speaking i.e. Chief’s of Defence (air, navy and army with at least one support staff member). You’d have Opposition members in attendance, you know the Liberals (this varies on who they are)? You’d have considerable security personnel. You’d have attendees there to talk with Turkish representatives for the 2015 event. So you can see how large it could get. 

As for dwarfing other similar events. Well this pilgramage usually has about 10-20000 Australians attending (backpackers mainly), how does that compare to Kokoda? And when I did it in 2003 with friends there were regular reports of terrorists from Iraq making their way there (with nothing eventuating), so security was and has beefed up considerably.

I prefer this article. IT’s even more desperate in its attempt to vilify the Gillard government http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2011/09/13/ANZAC_events_threatened_by_pokie_reforms_661286.html . So how did they fund these events before poker machines?? Oh LOL.

Tim says:

01:06pm | 15/09/11

ok second go cause my first reply didn’t go through.
Fiddler,
did you read the story?
The vast majority of the cost was for infrastructure in running the events.
The airfares were $200k and the accomodation was $70k.
But i suppose $300k isn’t as sensational a headline as $3mill.

nossy says:

02:12pm | 15/09/11

@Economist LOL to you to fella! This is a disgrace - a waste of millions of dollars of Taxpayer money and worse still a genuine Returned Serviceman has to pay his own way to Gallipoli whilst 100 freeloading Publice Servants suck on the public purse - undefensible fella!

Economist says:

03:10pm | 15/09/11

@Nossy, a few things. Firstly What do you object to? The fact that veterans have to pay their own way? There are no longer any surviving WW1 veterans. If there were their costs should be covered by DVA. Should the children of those who fought in Galipoli have their way paid for? Secondly, how much is spent on ceremonies at the War Memorial and all other memorials through out Australia on ANZAC day. I’d argue far more than $3 million. Thirdly, the event has been politicised. As I stated you have government representatives in attendance, not 100 public servants, but 100 individuals who represent the Australian government and their security personnel During my attendance it was Peter Costello.  For the 90th anniversary where Howard attended, how much did that cost? I’d argue close to $3 million. Just because this looks to be the first time they’ve reported it doesn’t mean that this number of attendees and cost has been ongoing since it became popular.

Due to the fact that over 10000 australians attend what do you expect? One bloke with a microphone and speakerto say something menaingful? Its a national park that requires careful construction of seating and stages that are then removed. There is a certain expectation by the predominantly young people in attendance to have a ceremony. Perhaps we should forego it to save a few million.

The article is poorly written nonsense that’s confusing and provides no decent breakdown of the costs. IT’s incredibly poor reporting.

nossy says:

05:03pm | 15/09/11

@Economist of course there are no surviving WW1 veterans Economist. Now why dont we pay for some of our other war vets to go there instead of all these silly public servants only going there on a jaunt - its all over in a couple of days so surely these pampered pollies etc can do without someone to wipe their collective arses! The taxpayer is being robbed blind here Economist and you Sir are defending the robbery!

fairsfair says:

09:21am | 15/09/11

I thought it was very funny. I was laughing out loud for the most part. Particularly at that security guy at the school hall, all the school hall jokes (the kids love that playground), the dude off the Chaser made an appearance. Yep, really funny and I would say better than the first episode.

Michael says:

09:37am | 15/09/11

Missed it, fell asleep watching a doco about whales.

Thanks for the link.

Ben C says:

09:50am | 15/09/11

More importantly, nossy, what did you think of it, being the resident TV reviewer?

TimB says:

10:33am | 15/09/11

Less heavy on the politics this time around, most of the jokes seemed to come at the expense of Canberra and its multitude of roundabouts. (Is there really a Questacon Day? Surely not. Questacon is pretty awesome though.)

Julia’s escapades in a badly neglected Lodge were worth a chuckle- a subtle dig about how everything she touches falls apart? Or perhaps a comment on her general level of incompetence when dealing with problems? Regardless, her eventual visual transformation into the Bogan Queen was well done.

The slightly crazed security agent was a standout character (“Harry!), and poor Tim just can’t catch a break.  Looking forward to the final episode where he loses it completely and gives those snot nosed brats an asskicking.

Favourite line- “It’s her! She tricked us! Just like with her Carbon Tax!”

Tim says:

10:37am | 15/09/11

I don’t know why they call it At Home With Julia, it should just be called “Unmarried Male Hairdresser”.
Anyone who’s ever been to Queanbeyan would have laughed at the Mexican housekeeper taking his day off there.
Slightly better than the first episode but still a yawnfest.

Knemon says:

10:43am | 15/09/11

@ nossy - I humbly apologise for suggesting last week that you had lost your sense of humour…I won’t be tuning in again, last night’s episode was the worst comedy (cough) I’ve ever sat through. Cheers.

adam says:

11:01am | 15/09/11

I truely feel for Tim. I now he’s just a caracter but jeez he makes me sad

nossy says:

12:16pm | 15/09/11

@Ben C thank you for asking that “Dorothy Dixer” Ben. Not a bad show - it grows on you - i thought the bit with Joolya in the Taxi was good with the Afgan taxi driver - she gets in the cab in her dressing gown , legs awray and apologises for giving him a “peek” at her goodies! hhaha some things you just shouldnt see! poor Timmy is not looking too sharp so far and looks more and more like a worker waiting for a job. i do recommend a couple of glasses of your favourite “beverage” to enhance the cultural qualities of this series - if ya know what I mean!

Tim says:

01:09pm | 15/09/11

Nossy,
http://www.news.com.au/national/julia-gillard-mistaken-for-a-spouse-at-new-zealand-leaders-forum/story-e6frfkvr-1226137760982

Who needs the show, when real life is funnier.

ausspud says:

01:18pm | 15/09/11

Has Craig Emerson made a special appearance yet.
If you know what i mean

Anubis says:

01:54pm | 15/09/11

@ Ausspud - No, but Craig Thomson got a subtle mention last night

adam says:

09:50am | 15/09/11

wouldn’t be Webber

fairsfair says:

10:54am | 15/09/11

Damn! Half right is the story of my life!

TimB says:

11:00am | 15/09/11

Skedaddle?

marley says:

11:06am | 15/09/11

scuttle?

fairsfair says:

12:00pm | 15/09/11

scamper?

Because M is so much more obscure than R.

xar says:

10:46am | 15/09/11

the funny thing about what “the media” have been reporting and how is that it varies quite a bit from media source to media source. Isn’t it amazing how simple facts can be re-written, or twisted to suggest something not remotely factual at all, but rather something that suits an agenda. I expect that behaviour of pollies, but I expect our media to not abuse their possition to the point where they are merely printing propoganda. When you look at the facts vrs what has been reported in some sections of the media, and you look at those things which have not been reported at all, a clear picture emerges and it is one that needs to be examined. To suggest the media is some kind of noble institution, too high on its pedastool to ever bare scrutiny is to dig your own hole and bury yourself in it.

Knemon says:

11:25am | 15/09/11

@ Robert - What section of the constitution deals with ‘the freedom of the press’?

All previous parliamentary attempts to introduce a Bill of Rights in Australia have been made by the Australian Labor Party but they have lacked bipartisan support and therefore have failed.

Tim says:

10:38am | 15/09/11

but you’d still be stuck with the chavs and soccer hooligans.

adam says:

10:21am | 15/09/11

Pity the “mainstream” outlets still seem to overlook stories of this nature to instead run the doom and gloom, all youth are louts style of story. More power to him

Traxster says:

10:37am | 15/09/11

A great enterprise and a great bunch of young men to see it through,
let’s pray that they don’t go into politics !!

Traxster says:

10:43am | 15/09/11

Great enterprise and great group of young men to see it through,let’s hope that don’t go into politics.

fairsfair says:

11:02am | 15/09/11

lol Trackster - fingers crossed!

You’re right Adam. Such a good story about a young guy for a change. He hasn’t crashed his car on his P Plates or trolled a facebook page. He has a bit of gumption, good to see. Mr Piotrowski, maybe the Punch could follow up with them on their journey? Its is a pretty major distance to cover and for a very good cause.

(I’ve got a bit of a hide this week! Thanks to the team Schwarzeneggering has doubled in figures in only a couple of days). Punch on!

nossy says:

12:24pm | 15/09/11

@fairsfair - what a champion FF! Thats almost twice the distance of 1 Tour De France although not at the same hectic pace but a top effort!

fairsfair says:

11:07am | 15/09/11

LOL! I used to pay $100 a week board to my parents while I was saving for my own house having recently relocated (back) home. On top of that I’d do the weekly shop once a month and was responsible for mowing the front yard.

I think a base figure of $100 is fair plus chipping in. Mid 20s??? Good god, get them out alright! Maybe take up an obscure hobby? I woudn’t suggest nudism, but maybe some sort of horrific music or drastically uncool craft like knitting beer can hats…

marley says:

11:08am | 15/09/11

Divide total household costs - taxes, mortgage, rates, power, water, insurance, food, telephone, internet, etc by the number of adults and let them pay a quarter of all costs.  That might do it.

adam says:

11:20am | 15/09/11

You divide your weekly mortgage payment by the number of bedrooms. Add $50 to that figure as a starting point, then raise it each month by a further $20.

Also, I’m sure they go out every now and then. When they do, change the locks

Fiddler says:

12:04pm | 15/09/11

have sex in front of them

Ben C says:

12:08pm | 15/09/11

I used to pay half my wage to my parents, but it’s now $400 a fortnight - goes towards the rental properties that I hold with my mum and sister (my sister’s moved out, so she pays rent to someone else). Further, I pay for the Internet and landline, while my parents pay for electricity, water and rates.

If I were you, I’d be charging $150 a week - that should allow for a portion of the mortgage, utilities and food.

@ adam

Love your idea about the locks!

NicoleG says:

12:27pm | 15/09/11

LOL Fiddler. That’d sure work!!!

Elphaba says:

12:44pm | 15/09/11

Afternoon Punchers.

@borg, how long have they been working?  Ideally, they should have been paying board the minute they got a full time job, however, marley’s suggestion has got my vote.

My brother paid board before he moved out (I had already left before board-paying commenced), and he was always happy to do it.

Your trouble is going to arise if they’ve been working for a while and having the benefit of living rent free, suddenly having to cough up.  I would suggest making life uncomfortable for them.  Be nosey.  Be overbearing.  Use these tactics to remind them of why living out of home is awesome.

Have a great day Punchers!

Elphaba says:

12:45pm | 15/09/11

Also, I like the $150/wk as a starting figure - that’s roughly what the going share house rate would be.

ausspud says:

01:15pm | 15/09/11

Convert to Islam

Michael says:

01:22pm | 15/09/11

30% of net pay, it’s a fair amount and in line with what awaits them when they fly the coupe.

bella starkey says:

02:18pm | 15/09/11

My parents moved my horrible old witch of a grandmother in, I moved out 2 months later.

borg says:

02:21pm | 15/09/11

Wow some interesting ideas.

They have been working for 4 and 5 year respectively and currently contribute $150 p/f each.  We charged them board after their first month of full time work. 
We based that contribution on half the total cost of all utilities, plus a contribution towards food, although for some reason I think the young bloke does pretty well out of that deal. 

Hadn’t considered them contributing to the mortgage, or having sex in front of them, we had considered changing the locks but that’s expensive.

They are good kids generally, some couple time would be nice before we get to old.

Elphaba says:

03:12pm | 15/09/11

@borg, I reckon you just need to sit them down and tell them.  I love my parents to death, but I was really excited to move out, so I don’t understand the hanging around.

Set a deadline and stick to it.  If they won’t, increase the board to rental market rates.

LJ Dots says:

05:46pm | 15/09/11

@borg, sounds like a bargain - where do I sign up?

I suggest an auction and let the market decide. I’ll get the ball rolling and bid $160p/f, but only on the condition you ignore Fiddlers advice on how to discourage future ‘tenants’.

nossy says:

12:30pm | 15/09/11

@fairsfair and Bligh has started the dirty tactics re Campbell Newman already FF - she knows shes for the high jump.

ausspud says:

01:21pm | 15/09/11

@fairsfair
I wonder if its for personal reasons or to spend more time with family.

Seanr says:

01:47pm | 15/09/11

The rush to the exit by the ALP will only get more frantic the closer the election gets. I am nominating “to spend more time with family” as being the most popular excuse. Although I would give major kudos to anyone who had the guts to say “well I’ve got no chance of winning so why would I bother”

AFR says:

12:52pm | 15/09/11

Skedaddle? Is that even how its spelt?

adam says:

12:58pm | 15/09/11

Skittle?

fairsfair says:

12:59pm | 15/09/11

Skat (though that is also bear sh*t too isn’t it?)

Anubis says:

02:42pm | 15/09/11

@fairsfair - Only if it is in a forest ff

ausspud says:

01:13pm | 15/09/11

Neo
I think you have just made fairsfairs decade.
Now if we can just get them together with a couple of pillows

NicoleG says:

01:36pm | 15/09/11

Perve!

SimpleSimon says:

02:03pm | 15/09/11

Links plz.

Fiddler says:

02:38pm | 15/09/11

Can we make this a topic please? Mods, maybe someone in the field to comment.

AFR says:

02:55pm | 15/09/11

$1.51? Where are you buying it? Mosman?

But seriously, you state you are aware of the weekly price fluctuation - so buy at the cheapest part of the week.

fairsfair says:

03:08pm | 15/09/11

Yeah, I’ll second that. I fuelled up on Monday for $1.58.

The story up here is freight, we have no fluctuations like the cities - that is just a flat rate that only ever increases.

Its a joke. I work in the industry and it is nothing but a joke. There is too much oil within the market in Singapore and not as much demand for refined product. It is the same old line that Queenslander’s got this year - we conserved too much power over summer so the prices had to go up.

Its an absolute crock, but nobody can stop it.

Anubis says:

03:08pm | 15/09/11

@afr -It wasn’t an option today, it was either buy or don’t go to work. As for the weekly fluctuation, have you noticed that they are shifting the low point day almost weekly. This week it was on Monday, last week it was on Wednesday, the week before it was on Tuesday.

Anubis says:

03:17pm | 15/09/11

@ AFR - That is what the price was in Melbourne this morning.

AFR says:

03:54pm | 15/09/11

I always thought Sydney was the most expensive place for fuel, so there you go. As I don’t want to put ethanol in my car, finding regular 91 Octance makes the choice fairly scant, but my local independent is still generally selling it for about $1.32. Having said all that, I don’t really get the whole malarky over fuel prices - even paying 10 cents a litre more makes all of $5 difference to the tank, bugger all when compared to the real costs of running your can (eg: depreciation).

fairsfair says:

04:16pm | 15/09/11

True AFR, but when I think about when I first bought my car in 2005, petrol was around the $1 a litre mark. The last time I fuelled up for under a dollar a litre was at the Glasshouse Mountans Mobil on January 13 2007. So I have gone from it costing me about $40 a week in fuel to now costing $65. Its a pretty big jump when you think that is $1200 a year (on top of increases in rego, insurance etc).

We pay fuel exise up here in our registration. Until last year or so that always meant that we got a good few cents off petrol. Anna Bligh still charges it, but doesn’t pass on the savings. So I think regional QLD has probably now overtaken Sydney. Though I do recall it being pretty exxy in the NT when I was there in February. Would be interesting to know Australia’s most pricey fuel….

I think it is still hovering around the US$1 per litre in the states and they are whinging something big about that.

AFR says:

04:20pm | 15/09/11

As a kid i remember fuel was much cheaper in QLD, so much so that when going on holidays, my father would stretegically fill the car just enough, so it was bone dry when we got to the border.

Ben C says:

04:44pm | 15/09/11

@ AFR

Campbelltown’s got it at $1.49 a litre.

You’ll also notice that there are less and less servos selling regular unleaded 91 RON these days. Refer to this link:

http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2011/01/25/unleaded-petrol-now-phased-out-in-2012/

By 30 June 2012, you will be either using E10 or premium unleaded if you live in NSW. Not sure about other states, but I believe regular unleaded is being phased out nationwide.

iansand says:

04:47pm | 15/09/11

AFR - Until recently - within the last 5 years - the Queensland government subsidised fuel.  Something to do with paying Commonwealth excise.  Petrol was always around 10c a litre cheaper. thn NSW It used to bug me when I wen up there.  Queensland was crying poor and demanding a bigger slice of the GST when they were using the revenue to give the locals cheap fuel.

Shane* says:

04:54pm | 15/09/11

Take a deep breath, folks:

Australia’s fuel prices are linked to the Singapore prices, not the crude oil market.

Compared to Europe, Australia’s petrol is dirt cheap.

We are a victim of 1 part geographic location and 1 part corporate greed. So let’s call chop our indignation in half, shall we?

marley says:

05:20pm | 15/09/11

I had a quick look at petrol prices in Canada - they’re running in the CAD 1.25 to 1.40 range, depending on the province - and of course a lot more in remote areas. (The CAD is worth about .99 AUD).  So far as I can tell, the biggest difference between Australia and Canada is that the tax on petrol is higher here than there.  So maybe it’s not so much the retailers as a combination of high crude prices, high cost of refining, and very high taxes.  Not that I didn’t hate having to pay 1.50 down here on the South Coast the other day.

Michael says:

02:07pm | 15/09/11

skitter

SimpleSimon says:

02:11pm | 15/09/11

Skip?

adam says:

02:53pm | 15/09/11

the boy stood on the burning deck
his pockets full of crackers

one fell down his trouser leg
and blew off both his…..

fml says:

02:28pm | 15/09/11

The yellow in Urine, is an excess of riboflavin, When you take multivitamins, the excess is released from the body, there is no build up, so if you are healthy you are literally, pissing away vitamins.

You cant overdose on those things either, from memory i worked out you need like 10,000 tablets.

iansand says:

02:40pm | 15/09/11

Multivitamins are expensive wee dye.  Very few people in Australia need them.

Michael says:

02:57pm | 15/09/11

you can OD on selenium or one of the trace things in multi’s there was a CSI episode about the same thing and it’s dangers.

Vitamin A will kill you if you have too much also, i don’t know how much is too much except that if you ate a polar bear liver you would die from Vitamin A poisoning.

Aitch B says:

04:59pm | 15/09/11

@Jas

I suggest you give it up. You and your fellow truthers should realise after the last couple of days that hammering your cause here on The Punch is indeed a lost cause.

By the way…. are you a member of Global Research?

Ben C says:

04:28pm | 15/09/11

I definitely understand where you’re coming from Wilma, but I might point out a couple of things:

1. The ages of the respective victims - 11 and 18. I would argue that the 18 year old would have more of an understanding about how to handle herself after such an event, or she has developed certain techniques to put on the facade. Different people handle pressure differently.
2. The distress shown by the 11 year old could also have been because of the fact that it was her father involved. It’s more distressing when the perpetrator is one of the people you would trust to keep you from harm. The 18 year old was assailed by someone she did not know intimately.
3. In both cases, arrests have been made. I don’t think any businessman with a reputation to protect would be stupid enough to accept any sort of money to land himself in jail for another person’s publicity stunt.

But you are correct, the vast majority of people would react more like the 11 year old than the 18 year old. Maybe the 18 year old is in the minority.

Besides, at 18, I doubt anything would be more distressing than the HSC!