Punch on: Anzac Day 2012, Open Thread

Cars says:

01:22pm | 26/04/12

@ the Proud Aussie-Brit The thing we haven’t mentioned is that they get payed to do it. We offer them a price to do a job, then they choose to accept or decline the offer and the danger that goes with it. If there isn’t a gang of people lining up, then we just offer them more money.
Now we may thank our gardener for mowing our lawn, our police for keeping the community safe, but we don’t have public holidays to honour them and TV ads telling us to spare a thought for those who “serve”. It’s all a harkening back to our baser glorification of warriors.

The Proud Aussie-Brit says:

07:28pm | 25/04/12

No, Cars - the point is not irrelevant and I think you are flippant to dismiss it like that, like there is a whole gang of people lining up around the block just ‘waiting to fight’, just like there is not a whole gang of people waiting to join the police or nurses. 

Anyway, why would you, when you can get a degree in “Management” and be a ‘manager’ for 100k a year for half the cost and contact hours of a nursing degree ?

If they showed them videos of what you really can see when you are in a theatre of war, I think many would be shocked and would not join.

If you asked people to go and do it for no other reason apart from “fighting”, I think you wouldn’t have many takers.

The same as if you don’t pay our nurses, police and fire fighters a decent wage, “the calling” can only go so far.

So the point is relevant.

Cars says:

04:00pm | 25/04/12

@the proud Aussie-Brit
The fact is there are people that want to do it without being asked to. So your point is irrelevant.
OK i only assumed there was conscription because my grandad talked about it.  The fact ANZACs weren’t conscripted makes me want to honour them less now. At least in WW2 and less so WW1, there was a genuine threat to our way of life that could have been the reason some people fought, and I thank them for that. There’s very little reason to be thanking the diggers currently in Afghanistan, the only people that are hopefully benifiting is the Afghan population.

The Proud Aussie-Brit says:

01:52pm | 25/04/12

But if no one does it, who is there to stand for us ?

Sorry that I cannot agree re: politicians - I am apolitical and believe that most of them are in it for what they can get for themselves, not for ‘serving the country’.  Hamilton-Smith is a rare exception in that he has served the country as a soldier. 

If the pollies were out for our own good, they would take the same lack of salary and perks as our nurses and police, for example, and stop all this BS flying around the world at the pointy end of the plane on ‘study tours’ to exotic locales.  They would also not award themselves ludicrous pay and superannuation rises when their rank and file employees get 2.5% if they are lucky.

The public servants under the pollies - the coalface ones like police, fire and nurses - do a damn sight more ‘real work’ in the ‘real world’ than the pollies ever would (yes, the one where you lug your own shopping home yourself and pay your own bills, not done by some advisor or corporate concierge). 

That’s why most of the pollies are out of touch with their constituents and they wonder why people are upset when they try and drag the economy back into the black….by introducing a “pasty tax” in the UK.

TheRealDave says:

01:44pm | 25/04/12

Cars - WTF?!?

Do you have any clue about Australian Military history at all?? Because according =to your post you don’t.

NO Conscripts served in WW1. Infact Australia was the only nation to have an ALL VOLUNTEER force during the war, and that includes New Zealand.

There were conscripts in WW2 but they were only required to serve in Australia…unfortunately for some Australia during WW2 included PNG so some did serve on the Track and subsequent battles at the end of the campaign.

No Conscripts served in Korea.

Yes Conscripts served in Vietnam, I did quote numbers a few weeks ago, from memory it was around 14 000 of the over 50 000 Australians who did serve in Vietnam. And here’s the little known bit - they still had to actually volunteer for Vietnam service. I am more than happy to acknowledge that peer group pressure and other factors did influence some who really didn’t want to go, undoubtedly, but they still had to stick their hand up. They still had to pass demanding pre-deployment testing and courses at Canungra and many who did want to go failed and were not allowed to go. So there were plenty of ‘outs’ if you didn’t want to go…plus…who wants a bloke beside them who doesn’t want to be there?

I am not sure what books you’ve been reading…if any at all….

Justan Oz says:

01:42pm | 25/04/12

Cars; I am sure that you will find that conscription did not apply in the first world war! There were 2 referendums to force men to fight but they were both defeated..  World war 1,to my mind, was one of the most disgusting wars in the history of man!  10 million,mainly young men, died in a shocking way,for what purpose??  A squabble between the blue blood rulers at that time!  To celebrate such an event is wrong,,,

LJ Dots says:

01:19pm | 25/04/12

The original ANZACS were all volunteers though there were two plebiscites in Australia to introduce conscription in WW1, both of which failed. New Zealand did introduce conscription in 1916 which was after the Gallipoli campaign.

Susan says:

11:34am | 25/04/12

Hi Rowdy…thanks for linking in to the day (no matter where you are in the world).

marley says:

02:51pm | 25/04/12

@Daniel - “Surely ANZAC day must eventually have an expiry date. “

Yes, it will have an expiry date - when man ceases to solve his disputes through violence.  How many bush wars have there been in your own young lifetime?  How many men, women and children have died because of territorial disputes or ethnic rivalries or political disputes between neighbouring states?  ANZAC Day reminds us all that, when wars occur, they’re more than just a clash of ideologies:  real people bleed and die for those ideologies.  And when we look back, we can scarcely understand why.

Every politician who thinks its a good idea to send soldiers overseas to fight in wars, however just they may seem, needs to reflect on the message that ANZAC Day carries.  The fact that you don’t understand the message, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

TheRealDave says:

01:37pm | 25/04/12

Thank You Daniel for so eloquently illustrating the point that something that is never earnt is never respected.

I bet your pissed the shops are closed as well.

Chris L says:

12:13pm | 25/04/12

I am in rare agreeance with you Pies.

I hate pies says:

11:50am | 25/04/12

The importance of ANZAC day lies not only in remembering those who have fallen, but also in remembering the atrocities of war. It reminds us that there are no winners from war, and that we must never repeat the mistakes of the past. It helps us to put our current society into context and realise how bloody lucky we are.
That’s why ANZAC day should never expire.

Susan says:

11:41am | 25/04/12

They are buried..and still bones rise to the surface in France (from ploughing etc).  Despite both my parents having served in the armed forces, I was raised to somewhat despise Anzac Day. At school I would not stand for any ceremonies or when the Last Post was played.  I’m older now and feel quite differently - and compassionately - and my mother marches every year as does my aunt (the men have passed away).  I doubt it will have an expiry date, but, interestingly, it’s young people Daniel - not oldies - who have decided to maintain the tradition. Check out the Aussies who attend Gallipoli itself each year and more than half are under 25.  I think part of the mindset is compassion - and compassion for all those who have fought in most wars, from most countries.  I think that sentiment worth preserving but, no amount of govt. planning would achieve that. People themselves will decide.  If your grandkids go to Anzac ceremonies in the year 2052 I am sure they will go for reasons beyond one battle ground.  But Anzac and Gallipoli, once you research it, is remembered for reasons beyond ‘war’ - and it loops back to compassion. Recognising the sheer horror and feeling profoundly moved by it. People remember the holocaust for similar reasons I think.

JTZ says:

08:34am | 26/04/12

@TheRealDave sad thing is I wonder how many of them are in politics.

TheRealDave says:

01:35pm | 25/04/12

Whats even sadder is that I have noticed over the last few years an emergent group of people vocally disputing the fact returned Vietnam soldiers were ever jeered or spat on. They call it myth and made up. They do this from the safety of anonymous internet accounts mind you - so much like those that perpetrated these disgusting acts on our returned Diggers they are nothing more than gutless cowards.

As a child of a Vietnam Veteran I have had to live with the after effects of not only the war itself but also the long term treatment of these blokes. I am proud of each and every single one of them.

I wonder how many Gen X men and women running around today, or Gen Y grandchildren, are proud of their parents and grandparents who spat on and booed our Vietnam Veterans??

I’ve got $50 right here right now that says not a single one of these bastards ever told their kids and grand kids that they spat on and denigrated Australian Soldiers.

fedup labourvoter says:

11:19am | 25/04/12

susan, you are absolutely correct. The Vietnam vets were treated contentiously, mainly driven by Jim Cairns, that communist who infiltrated the Aust govt. Timinane you are an idiot, because most of our diggers were volunteers in WW1 and WW2 and not invaders, but were fighting to remove those German invaders. In Korea the diggers were volunteers, many were draftees in Vietnam, though not all and volunteers in Iraq and Afganistan.  And they were not invaders but were fighting for the rights and protection of the local people from tyrants. Anzac day is not to celebrate war but to say thanks to those diggers who fought for us, whether it was right or wrong, they fought and died for us.

Rowdy says:

11:16am | 25/04/12

Agreed Susan….that song always gives me goosebumps, ANZAC day or not.

And to think Union Carbide made Agent Orange at their site at Rhodes in Sydney, right near the Olympic venue at Homebush. There are blocks of units going up there now.  Funny that what we allowed to be made here, affected our own troops so adversely, and they had to struggle for years and years to even get the vile effects of that defoliant recognised…...war is hell, not always on the front line….

Timinane says:

10:55am | 25/04/12

This is why I like to repeat the follow lines every ANZAC day.

Don’t Hate the Soldier, hate the bastard who sent them to die in another countries invasion. (peace keeping excluded, that is noble but when was the last time our UN peace keepers were in the news)

Lest we forget, for we have forgotten the price that is paid in war.

Now how many people are out on the booze because it’s a public holiday?

LJ Dots says:

11:37am | 25/04/12

Tony, I’d be grateful if you could buy him a beer on my behalf, ta

TheRealDave says:

01:28pm | 25/04/12

Sad Man - those Diggers you talk of were in far more parlous circumstances than you are right now. You have the luxury of being able to stop working and sit on your arse and have the government find you housing, feed you, clothe you like the hundreds of thousands of welfare dependent ‘people’ this country currently supports.

I wonder how you would go not wanting to work in 1915….or 1939….and the kind of life you’d lead in comparison to todays bludgers??

Chris L says:

12:11pm | 25/04/12

I feel the need to point out that even the lower classes among us live in opulence compared to most Aussies in 1915. We have it so good we can sue lifesavers if they break a rib while resuscitating us. We can complain that our life is unlivable because we can’t afford to run a second car. We can live off welfare, or accuse our politicians of “class warfare” if that welfare doesn’t extend to us.

I can understand your viewpoint, Sad Man, but of all days this one reminds me how good we have it. Even those years where I’ve worked on ANZAC day I feel the need to recognise this.

acotrel says:

10:10am | 25/04/12

’ It is going to get to the point where we don’t have any freedom except the freedom to stop working and starve to death in a gutter. ‘

You could be free to be blown to pieces on a battlefield ? Gratitude doesn’t cost much.

nihonin says:

10:40am | 25/04/12

But didn’t you know the players are all ‘heroes’, if you listen to the commentary during any game (AFL or NRL), it’ll usually be mentioned.

Susan says:

09:29am | 25/04/12

Interesting point thea. I was reflecting this morning about the relatives some of us might well have in Japan and other countries that we know nothing about.  I’m sure many families do.  That would be one heck of a show - to find out genetic connections etc.

sunny says:

05:59pm | 25/04/12

John, now that you mention it my mortgage does “enslave” me and “occupies” my mind a lot of the time.

That does it - I’m going to invade Poland! ..I’ll employ Blitzkrieg Bop tactics; they won’t know what hit em.

TheRealDave says:

01:22pm | 25/04/12

John, take your fantasy internet conspiracy theory rubbish and shove them for today. Bring them back tomorrow when we can all giggle about them.

John says:

11:09am | 25/04/12

Your saying Churchill and Roosevelt weren’t fruit cakes? What about Stalin? The same legacy of fruit cakes are still in power today, International banker puppet Obama and International banker puppet Cameron, while would gladly send their troops to invade, bomb and occupy nations on the pretext of a fictional enemy’s.

Remember it was FRANCE and BRITAIN that declared war on Germany. It’s pretty clear Hitler was a threat to the international bankers, since puppets in Britain, France and the US were controlled by the International bankers. International Banker secured their existence in WWII, at the cost of lives of millions of european lives.

The Allied populations bought the propaganda and went on to fight for the international bankers interests instead of their own, today their nations are basket case’s, corrupt, morally decadent, still fighting for international banker interesting in the middleast, slaughter and murdering middle-astern population and is in massive debt to the international banks, the west is occupied and enslaved by the international bankers.

Good guys don’t always win the wars, the allies weren’t the good guys, that was all propaganda.

acotrel says:

09:55am | 25/04/12

@Iggy
Did you know that before the fight for the Hindenberg LIne in WW1, Monash had t o ban our guys from playing footy in the assembly areas because they used to become too buggered to fight ?

Iggy says:

09:21am | 25/04/12

Wow. Cheering it like sport. How typically Australian.

nihonin says:

08:06am | 25/04/12

Very much agree nossy, to all those who have and will give their all for this great country, I raise my glass.

Chris L says:

09:13pm | 25/04/12

Good point Danger Mouse. Not sure what I was thinking

Against the Man says:

05:44pm | 25/04/12

acotrel -Gillard has destroyed the ALP brand and left you looking like a fool

Enjoy reality in a open thread. Keep it up!

Mouse says:

05:07pm | 25/04/12

@ChrisL,
“It would do us all a lot of good to step back and wonder how a supporter of “the other side” would view a situation, and how we would view it if it were “our side” involved.”

OMG, too rational I’m afraid!  Don’t be a spoilsport, lol, most of the best repartee is from one-eyed Punchers!!  That’s the fun of this site,  lol :o)

Aussie Battler says:

01:56pm | 25/04/12

And of course Labor will be trying to make sure Mr Slipper is back in his spot by 8th May (Budget Day).  They could not afford to be low in their numbers for fear of some of the budget package failing to get through.
Although if any of the information in the below story is correct, it might be a while before Mr Slipper gets back to his old job.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/exiled-slipper-retains-full-pay/story-e6frea6u-1226336582313

Susan says:

12:58pm | 25/04/12

Oh Jane. So bitter you could be the dregs at the Carlton factory.

Chris L says:

12:01pm | 25/04/12

“Funny how labor want different standards” - Indeed Denny, this is not an isolated phenomena. Supporters of both parties make great demands of their opposing party, and offer unhesitating forgiveness for their own. We have people jumping on Abbott for some sort of mix up of dates (who hasn’t done that?) and we have people decrying Gillard for not immediately kicking Slipper out of parliament when the Coalition had already kept him for twenty years.

It would do us all a lot of good to step back and wonder how a supporter of “the other side” would view a situation, and how we would view it if it were “our side” involved.

Jane says:

11:54am | 25/04/12

Susan
Get a grip
It’s the open thread.
Why don’t you go blog on the RSL website or be a tragic somewhere else?

Susan says:

11:32am | 25/04/12

acotrel,  I think we read punctuation in different ways. I read the header as an open dialogue re Anzac day 2012.  Not about broader political situations, jam recipes, the latest fashion, The Voice, or a discussion about Ford vs Holden.  This said, since you did read the title differently, I can see you didn’t intend to be disrespectful and I withdraw the comment.  Personally, I would rather Punch opened an entirely new and OPEN topic and kept that separate from Anzac Day. If it’s not important enough as a topic unto itself, why even have that in the title. (rhetorical).

Scotchfinger says:

10:21am | 25/04/12

acotrel, ‘close friends’? How close, exactly? We all know how good Tony looks in budgie smugglers; hard to resist if you are *ahem* of that persuasion…

acotrel says:

10:21am | 25/04/12

@Denny
I agree !  Honesty is the best policy !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtcgr8rM614

acotrel says:

10:13am | 25/04/12

@Susan
No disrespect.  The heading above this page says ‘anzac day’ AND ‘open thread’ !

Denny says:

09:58am | 25/04/12

Funny how labor want different standards applied to Slipper than they did with General Kafer or Peter Hollingsworth. Albo refused to even acknowledge this point on the 7.30 report. His natural response was Abbott Abbott Abbott.

When are these fools going to realize that its not about Abbott but about their own incompetence, porr judgement, dishonesty and lies. They lie about everything at EVERY press conference.

I heard the Prime lier yeasterday talk about the rivers of gold that poured into treasury coffers under Peter Costello. The truth is that actual revenue has increased by 37% and whilst the tax take as a % of GDP was marginally higher under costello the difference in real terms is only $25Billion which has been more than compensated by the overall and real increase in revenue.

Why do the press let her get away with such bullshit? Every time she speaks she lies like this or lies about Abbott. There is something seriously wrong with Gillard.

Denny says:

09:58am | 25/04/12

Funny how labor want different standards applied to Slipper than they did with General Kafer or Peter Hollingsworth. Albo refused to even acknowledge this point on the 7.30 report. His natural response was Abbott Abbott Abbott.

When are these fools going to realize that its not about Abbott but about their own incompetence, porr judgement, dishonesty and lies. They lie about everything at EVERY press conference.

I heard the Prime lier yeasterday talk about the rivers of gold that poured into treasury coffers under Peter Costello. The truth is that actual revenue has increased by 37% and whilst the tax take as a % of GDP was marginally higher under costello the difference in real terms is only $25Billion which has been more than compensated by the overall and real increase in revenue.

Why do the press let her get away with such bullshit? Every time she speaks she lies like this or lies about Abbott. There is something seriously wrong with Gillard.

nihonin says:

09:29am | 25/04/12

Slipper’s vote was one of many for Tony Abbott on the day, I remember you acotrel, stating Tony Abbott only won on the day because of his own vote for himself.  If you want to be believed acotrel…....consistency is the word.

my name is mark and i'm here to help says:

09:28am | 25/04/12

@alcotrel
” would he lie to us ?  OR would Tony Abbott lie to us ?”

Perhaps I can help…...
If Abbott was speaking from a script, then as he’s told us, it is a guarantee he’s not lying.
Was he speaking from a script or was it an interview?

If he was not using scripted remarks, then we can assume nothing. Abbott told us is true as demonstrated in the infamous interview with Tony O’Brien on the 7:30 report regarding the juxtaposition between insisting he’d have no new taxes, and his paid parental leave levy might shed some light on whether he is being truthful.
Abbott decided to confess that when he’s pressured in interviews, sometimes he says things that aren’t true, or goes too far in his statements.

If only we knew if it was a scripted remark, we could be sure.
Although, now that we have entered the aspirational phase of Abbott’s leadership, nothing is for certain.

Susan says:

09:18am | 25/04/12

To ramble on a totally irrelevant topic seems disrespectful within an Anzac Day topic.  Sorry there was no suitable Slipper topic today to keep you happy.

acotrel says:

08:41am | 25/04/12

Since when has proof been required before making an assertion ? Is Craig Thompson guilty of anything ?  I based my comment on the statement made by Slipper yesterday, would he lie to us ?  OR would Tony Abbott lie to us ?

Kurisu Sonsaku says:

08:36am | 25/04/12

He was also close friends with Rudd

Little Joe says:

08:36am | 25/04/12

Please .....

nihonin says:

08:07am | 25/04/12

Do you have any proof to support your comment acotrel?

JTZ says:

08:21am | 26/04/12

@Sarah before you comment let me tell you abouy my grandfather. He was in Singapore when it fell to the Japanese. He was a Sikh man and wore the turban. Do you know what the Japanese did to men of Sikh origin in Singapore. They dragged them by thier hair, dunked thier heads in cold water and even executed many others. To the day my grandfather died he hated the Japanese and would never forgive them for what they did.

The old diggers are right about the new generation. They are lazy and have no respect. Been out in the streets lately at night. Seen the number of fights that occur, read the paper lately about the gangland violence in West Sydney, seen the abuse of teachers at schools etc etc, the list goes on Sarah.

Let me ask you one thing, When you see someone been attacked and hurt do you clse your eyes and look the other way or will you go and help.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

People like you Sarah are happy to make comments like this because every day young men and wormmen volenteer to let you live the life you want, let you have freedom and make you safe at night for they are ready to serve and die for your freedom.

It is not the protestor on the street who keeps democracy alive, it is the hard man in the field with the weopen ready to defend your democracy.

marley says:

07:20am | 26/04/12

@Sarah - you know, I had an uncle who didn’t much like Japanese folk,  He had no trouble with Indians or Chinese, but couldn’t abide the Japanese.  For you, he’d have been one of those racist old men “chewing the fat” and rambling on about “filthy Japs.”  For me, he was a man who, when in his early twenties, had been captured by the Japanese at Hong Kong and spent the better part of four years undergoing deprivation and maltreatment we can’t even begin to imagine in POW camp.

Perhaps some day, instead of treating those old men with such obvious contempt, you might actually try to understand why some of them became the way they were.  They could have been your own father or brother or cousin.  They could yet be your son.

Sarah says:

02:47pm | 25/04/12

@therealdave I went to dawn services as a child, up until I was about 16. The hyprocracy of these events made me sick. A bunch of old men chewing the fat and insulting the younger generation as being lazy and arrogant while simutaneously stuffing their faces with food served to them by the previously mebtioned younger generation who were forced to be there by their school as a sogn of respect. After the songs and the moment of silence all bets were off and the bitching started. I loved the racism the most. The fact that the freedoms they bragged about protecting should only be available to “Australians”. I loved being called a “chink” and “slant eye” while I served an old man beer.

@nihonion - Perhaps you can explain to me why we went to war over an assasinated foreign archduke then? Obviously something that Australia needs protecting from…

It will ways be political, always.

TheRealDave says:

01:19pm | 25/04/12

Sarah, if you think that ANZAC Day is about ‘fake’ honour then I am afraid that that is more a reflection of you than Australian Society.

I was at Dawn Service this morning, were you? If you were you would have seen thousands of people solemly standing around in the pre-dawn. Even small kids were quiet and hushed.

Maybe you should ‘make a sacrifice; one year, get off your arse and get to Dawn Service and witness this ‘fake’ honour for yourself, first hand. Anyone who’s been to a Dawn Service would never say its ‘fake’ honour.

Aitch B says:

11:55am | 25/04/12

@Sarah

You say: “I think the fake display of “honour” one day a year is cheesey and tacky.”

Ever been to an RSL at 6pm? I think not….

You are obviously not aware that those lost during the wars are remembered with the Last Post, the Ode of Remembrance and Reveille EVERY day of the year.

I trust you don’t consider that fake, cheesy and tacky!

Chris L says:

11:50am | 25/04/12

@Sarah - I have to agree with Susan. As you say, was is about politics, but ANZAC day is about the young people who have to face the consequences of such politics.

If anything ANZAC day, above all other days, should be tastefully free of politics.

Susan says:

10:16am | 25/04/12

Sarah..i think there is a difference between what TROOPS went for and why wars are generated and the agendas that serve them.  I think many Australians have recognised that difference which is why so many now turn out.  Yes, it may be ‘political’ but the average sapper etc didn’t think along those lines and you can see that in their writing.

nihonin says:

09:41am | 25/04/12

. ‘It’s always about the furtherance of their ultimate commander, be it King, Queen, PM, president or despotic dictator.’

I thought the ANZACs went to war to halt and defend against these things.  Good Lord, we’ve had it all wrong for all these years

Sarah says:

09:19am | 25/04/12

I think he makes a good point, to be honest. Everyone always gets angry when a writer makes ANZAC day political. ANZAC day is political by it’s very nature. People are sent to war to benefit politics. Always. It’s always about the furtherance of their ultimate commander, be it King, Queen, PM, president or despotic dictator.

Quite frankly, I think the fake display of “honour” one day a year is cheesey and tacky. I respect the men who went to war to feed their families and stave off somthing they’d been convinced was a threat by targeted, nationalistic propaganda. But war is ALWAYS about politics.

JTZ says:

08:27am | 26/04/12

@acotrel even on a sacred day like this your ALP vile can not be stopped. Get a life. Form reading all your posts overtime I have relised one thing. You are a Labor troll.

How about asking your labor masters why they have not followed through on the promises they amde to Defence members and veterans. Where are the free medical and dental serivce for Defence members families. A promise made by Labor at both elections. Were is the increase in Veterans pensions. Another promise made at both elections.

For the Veterans one the govt says they can not afford it yet we can give 7 billion to Europe with only a guess we might get it back. Why dont you do the calc on interest on 7 billion dollars. This could of easily been used to fund the pension increase.

Against the Man says:

05:39pm | 25/04/12

acotrel the more you post the worst it gets for the ALP. Keep it up!

nihonin says:

08:21am | 25/04/12

I got a laugh out of Bill Shorten yesterday, while he was showing up Tony Abbott regarding his mistake concerning the RBA, Bill went and put his foot in it as well.  Maybe he should ‘shorten’ his sledges and research them before putting his foot in his mouth as well.

Chris L says:

06:18pm | 25/04/12

You don’t get off that easily Mouse. The only reason us men fight each other is to impress you women folk!

Mouse says:

04:29pm | 25/04/12

ChrisL, it is interesting that we “wage wars”  on things we want to get rid of, such as drugs and poverty, etc. The colloquialism does not escape me.  Of course we all want more than we have. I mean to say, I want her shoes, her hair, her handbag…..... it is just so hard being a woman at times!! lol

When it comes to war between countries, I doubt if politicians will ever change. There is too much glory to be won and all of them want their names in the history books. The fact that the price to be paid is not one that they personally have to pay is why it will not change.  The fact that they can convince us that they are doing it for us is another reason that we will continue to do the dirty work for them.  It makes me sad, but hey, that’s life!
Man is a strange creature, ChrisL, but I couldn’t imagine life without them! lol :o)

Steven says:

02:31pm | 25/04/12

War is a chess game for bureaucracy,
The individual has to play it like a pawn,
but his efforts leave no mark on history’s pages,
he is just a speck of dust in an infinital horde….

Chris L says:

11:47am | 25/04/12

We should remember how we, the people, can be manipulated into supporting wars. It’s exciting and it’s in our blood. We don’t have a clamp down on drugs, we have a war on drugs. We don’t work against poverty, we have a war on poverty. We don’t suffer from cancer, we fight cancer. I think we tend to be complicit in the war mongering as it speaks to our baser tendancies.

Mouse, while politicians do have that get-out-of-war-free card there’s no logical reason why their families should be spared. While it would seem unfair to draft the children and other relatives of politicians to serve on the front line, it’s no worse than drafting total strangers. Perhaps if politicians were, at least, risking the lives of their loved ones they may think about other options. Of course it would require politicians to put such a requirement in place, so we’re back to sqaure one.

Mouse says:

11:10am | 25/04/12

Amen Daniel!

Robert, I have always been of the opinion that the ones that start the wars should be the ones that fight them.  Let the ones that want whatever it is they want from another country slug it out between themselves. Let them have their Deputies and cohorts by their side as they fight to the death the opposing team. Let them go forward bravely and commandeer whatever it is they think they must take from another country or what we need or must have.  Put all the politicians in a large room and let them decide who gets what.  I’d pay to see that! lol
I can guarantee you that if this was the case, there would be no more wars, countries would be happy with what they have and peaceful ways would be found to acquire new things.  It is too easy to be tough when you don’t actually have to bleed your own blood.
But we know this will never happen, humans don’t have it in their DNA.  Sad really, isn’t it?

Robert S McCormick says:

10:03am | 25/04/12

Well said, Daniel,
Who creates wars? The politicians that is who. Then they introduce Conscription and force all the young to go and fight their dirty, unnecessary wars and allow many of them to die.
What do our parasitic politicians do? They declare their jobs are Essential & that means they just sit at home, get rich & blame everyone but themselves for the hatred, mistrust which they have deliberately created. War is Very Big Business. People make billions out of it. When peace arrives these parasites start worrying about how their profits are going to dwindle. They get in the ears of the politicians who start telling lies, as they did for the illegal invasion of Iraq, and instilling fear & hatred into people and then they send the young out to die and so the circle goes around.
In all the wars which our politicians have created, or been ordered by foreign powers to join in, over the generations how many of Australia’s , or any other countries for that matter, politicians have actually resigned from their parliaments & actually enlisted? Yes, there may be politicians sitting today who did serve in Vietnam etc. but that was long before any of them became politicians so they don’t count.
You politicians want War? Fine, declare your stupid, pointless F#$%&+g Wars but then you go fight in them.
How many 100s of millions of people have been slaughtered in wars since 1900? Every single one unnecessary. Every single one created by politicians and every single one of tham always claim ” God is on Our Side”. We all know that is bullshit.
On days like today we then have those same politicians having the gall to hypocritically talk about the Ultimate Sacrifice all those young men & women undergo.

Steven says:

01:50pm | 25/04/12

Lest must have been a terrible soldier…

Sorry, that joke tempers my sadness on days like today. The relevance for me on this day are my uncles, and my father -in-law, who all served in Vietnam.
I am proud to know, even now, that my children are taught the ANZAC story from prep, with respect and no hint of shielding them from the reality of war and what these men and women went through .
Well said nihonin

AdamC says:

09:58am | 25/04/12

I agree, well said.

CD says:

09:49am | 25/04/12

Thanks for being the first comment.
Very well said.

nossy says:

08:20am | 25/04/12

@nihonin   well said nihonin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXWViJ1QJ68