There is a great moment in The Simpsons where, after mounting a successful grassroots crusade against the violent Itchy and Scratchy cartoons, Marge is called upon to lead a group of concerned citizens who feel that Michelangelo’s statue of David is also not suitable for children (due to his exposed genitalia) and should not be displayed in Springfield during a nationwide tour.

Part of the cover of Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

Much to the frustration of Helen Lovejoy – the gossipy, ultra-conservative Reverend’s wife famous for the phrase “won’t somebody think of the children!?” – Marge does not want to participate in this campaign, because she thinks the statue is a renaissance masterpiece that all children should be encouraged to see.

It is a clever plot twist that highlights how slippery the slope of censorship really is, and how inconsistent we as a society tend to be when assessing the relative merits of art and popular culture: that one person’s art is very often another’s filth.

As it turns out, Australia has its very own version of Helen Lovejoy – Melinda Tankard Reist – who, among her usual rants about sexualisation of the media, has devoted much fury of late to the film clip for Kanye West’s song Monster.

In recent weeks, she has equated this music video to torture porn and snuff films, suggested that Kanye himself must therefore be “a fan of raping dead women”, and called for outraged citizens to join a social media campaign trying to get the video banned.

OK, I admit I’ve never seen torture porn or snuff films, and never want to, so I can’t really comment on that comparison. But, where was the rape scene? I certainly didn’t see one, so I can only assume I missed it.

In one article focussing on the opening scene of the video where (presumably dead) lingerie-clad women hang from the ceiling via chains around their necks, Tankard Reist claimed “Limp, floppy, rendered powerless these doll-like bodies retain their seductive, sexual allure.”

Sorry, what? Dead bodies are sexually alluring? For whom, exactly?

Not me, that’s for sure.

I agree that the film clip is confronting, and fully agree that it is in no way appropriate for children, but who says we can’t view these dangling women as a graphic critique of post-feminist female sexuality, rather than objects designed to arouse devious sexual thoughts?

From what I can make out, the song itself is a reflection on the negative public backlash to Kanye’s stunt at the 2009 MTV Video Music Awards, not an open expression of his enduring love of corpses. In it, he repeats the lyrics “Everybody know I’m a muthaf**king monster”, which, like the song’s title, is encouraging viewers to interpret the video content as ‘monstrous’, not ‘seductive’.

People can view and interpret things in lots of different ways, and they have the ability to respond maturely to provocative material – that’s the reason why we tend not to worry about full frontal nudity at art galleries.

Saying that anyone would become a raging necrophile after seeing some scantily-clad corpses in a highly stylised music video is like saying that someone is in danger of become a serial killer after watching a few episodes of Dexter. I’ve seen lots of violence and semi-nude dead bodies on CSI, but I’ve never heard anyone compare that show to a snuff film or suggest that its creators must be fans of raping dead women.

On her blog, Tankard Reist calls herself “an advocate for women and girls”. And, while her motives are admirable and undoubtedly sincere, I personally think her methods are actually doing a real disservice to our women and girls.

Why? Because, perhaps for the sake of media attention, she seeks out and highlights the most negative possible interpretation (however contrived) in everything she comes across, and implies (without any evidence) that everyone else naturally thinks along the same lines. This then encourages young women to view even the most mildly sexual piece of popular culture in the worst possible way, which thereby limits their ability to think about sex in a positive, healthy light.

It makes girls more inclined to view sex – and sexual decisions – as a source of negativity and fear, rather than a natural part of life in which they can have power and autonomy. And by suggesting at every turn that women and girls need ‘protection’ from sexual media images (created by devious men), she is arguably just reinforcing the old stereotype that girls are weaker and more fragile than their dominant male counterparts.

I think Tankard Reist would instead be much better off encouraging girls to read and re-imagine (perhaps even remix) sexual media messages they encounter in unique and creative ways, and helping them find ways of constructing their own empowering or liberating meanings.

As a parent myself, I just want a calm, vigorous, well-informed debate about what is appropriate for children to be exposed to, not a hysterical moral crusade to censor sex wherever and whenever it presents itself in popular culture.

There’s no way that I would allow my three year old to see this particular music video, but that doesn’t mean I necessarily want it banned along with anything else which happens to offend the Helen Lovejoys of the world.

As The Simpsons taught me all those years ago, the line between filth and art is very often a fine one and, unlike Melinda Tankard Reist, I don’t think I have any right to tell other people which is which.

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74 comments

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    • Paul says:

      06:05am | 16/02/11

      Kanye West should be banned because he’s offensively terrible.

    • mw says:

      09:05am | 16/02/11

      Actually, sadly and much to my annoyance he’s very talented.

    • DH says:

      09:20am | 16/02/11

      I think that sums it up nicely.

    • James1 says:

      12:01pm | 16/02/11

      mw,

      I have been waiting for this opportunity for at least two years.

      Why exactly?  Isn’t he just like every other rapper?  He doesn’t even use his own voice for large parts of his music, preferring to digitally alter it.  What exactly do you like about Kanye West, and why do people think he is brilliant?  Is it simply a matter of taste?

      (These are genuine questions, BTW, because I really do not understand his appeal.)

    • Luce says:

      12:39pm | 16/02/11

      James1, I agree.

      He’s very talented at whipping up a crowd of people with bad taste in music.

    • mw says:

      02:24pm | 16/02/11

      I have very diverse if eclectic musical tastes, but I generally don’t have much time for rap or hip hop. I’ve not given him the time of day in the past but I have heard a lot of his latest album and musically its got chops. He may be a total and utter twat, but I find his latest release is catchy and enjoyable. This may reflect to some degree his extensive collaboration with other artists…

    • Wynston Cruso says:

      02:40pm | 16/02/11

      James1 I had a serious attempt at answering your question but alas it was not published, just as my support of Grumpy’s comment below was also not published for some reason. It seems the only people able to comment on anything to do with Hip Hop are those who are unfamiliar with it entirely. Sad face.

    • Adam Diver says:

      07:08am | 16/02/11

      The line exist in the individual only. I have seen people defend some truly tasteless “art” but who is to say my “line” is morally superior to thiers?

      Having said that hanging corpses probably not suitable for children, not my cup of tea but not ban-worthy

    • Kirsty says:

      07:22am | 16/02/11

      I agree with you, the words of the song match the video clip in which they mention a massacre of those hangers on who suck blood/money from the singers/rappers.  Tankard Reist may need to look at herself, if she sees porn and torture in everything.  Probably the most offensive thing in the video is the constant use of the ‘n bomb’.  Kanye is of an acquired taste, having said that I am a fan.

    • Warren says:

      07:25am | 16/02/11

      I don’t see why art cannot be filth. Its not a case of one or the other. To ask whether its art or not art is a pretty pointless exercise. If someone wants to claim something as art thats up to them. The much more interesting question is, is it good art? And if so why, and of not why not?

      Kanye West’s Monster song is painfully bad art. Derivative, adolescent, offensive and stupid. But hey, if that’s what blows your hair back, go for it.

    • damien says:

      07:40am | 16/02/11

      i must admit, after reading the article i was expecting something a little more.. graphic? offensive? for me, the images are less about ‘necrophilia’, and more about the imagery that the showbiz people/women around are all fake, like mannequins or indeed, corpses.

    • Sam says:

      08:21am | 16/02/11

      While Stephen Harrington and others with similar education may see “a graphic critique of post-feminist female sexuality” I doubt many Kanye fans would even know what that meant.  They just see a rich dude surrounded by half-naked powerless women, the effect being to make that scenario look cool.  Even if the women were alive, I wouldn’t want my daughter watching it.
      And unfortunately not everyone controls their kids television viewing as well as Stephen does.  It takes a village.

    • Elphaba says:

      08:25am | 16/02/11

      Oh, hypochondriac parents.  Won’t someone please save the world from them?

      Look, if you’ve got decent control over your kids, which means supervising their media consumption when they’re in the home, then the occasional racy thing they see is not going to break them.  People like Reist give kids far too much credit.  If her kids are looking at stuff they shouldn’t, that is her problem, not mine.  She birthed them, she’s responsible for them.  Her hysteria only ends up trivialising the issue. 

      Militant parents should stop expecting that the world is going to bow to them because of their precious little miracles *yawn*.  I thought raising them was supposed to be a full time job…

    • fairsfair says:

      09:42am | 16/02/11

      Amen to that.

      However I will concede, when I was a kiddie the only thing my mum had to worry about was me watching Tottie Goldsmith’s “Sex/Life” at 9:30pm on a Tuesday night. Cue removal of 32cm TV from my room….

      Despite this, it can’t be that hard to control kids. I don’t remember being harped at, I don’t remember being punished all the time. I don’t remember being yelled at continually by an overbearing horrible woman. Quite the opposite actually. Stop blaming the world for your own failings parents! I know when I have kids and they turn out to be sh*ts I’ll blame myself.

      Here is that hypocricy we spoke of yesterday: “won’t someone think of the independant, financially secure individuals of child bearing age who do not yet have children and merely seek to live their own life in peace without being told they are a complete failure and should be shacked up in moderately loving relationship with 2 out of control children and a medium to large sized 4wd that never goes off road”. Think of us - feel our pain, we might like to watch this kind of thing and pass our own judgement as to whether it is “right” or “wrong”.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:05am | 16/02/11

      @fairsfair, video games were banned in our house.  The best we could hope for is when the $2 shop had a generic tetris game and my brother and I bought one each.  Otherwise, Super Nintendo, Sega, Atari, they were all banned.

      Gawd, am I showing my age?  A little. At least I didn’t say Commodore 64 tongue laugh

      So, of course, when we went to a friends house, if they had a system, we would play it.  My parents knew we played it.  It didn’t matter, so long as they weren’t in their house, then they didn’t mind.

      They were pretty strict on what we watched on TV.  I remember begging my Mum to be allowed to watch The X-Files.  She began to relent on the movies when I was about 13, because I was reading everything on my parents bookshelf - Wilbur Smith, Robery Ludlum, Stephen King - so it didn’t make sense to curb my TV habits when I was reading adult fiction from the age of 12.

      We weren’t allowed TVs in the rooms either.  Huge no-no.  TV viewing was together as a family, and always a democratic vote.

      It’s limited exposure, it’s not going to hurt anyone.  This idea that kids can’t recognise fact from fiction, and are just empty vessels waiting to be corrupted is bullshit.  What happened to everything in moderation?

      I wouldn’t raise my kids any differently.  I might relent a little on the video game thing, but I’d just moderate its use like anything else.  No playing before school, no playing it before homework is done, no hours and hours spent on it etc.

      Sure, there wasn’t internet in my house until I was 16, and yes I didn’t own a mobile phone until I was 18 and at uni.  But you can control what your kids watch, eat and consume, and any parent who whines “It’s too hard” is not trying hard enough.

      I’m an adult.  I’ll watch what I want.  The parents had the kids, they can raise the kids.  Where is it written that it was supposed to be easy?

      Nicely said, fairsfair.  The “I’ve got kids, only my opinion matters” contingent pisses me off too.

    • Chinaski says:

      11:22am | 16/02/11

      That’s a good point to make - people need to realise TV, the internet and pop music won’t raise their kids.

      A few people my age (early 20’s) and who wnet to my are falling pregnant. I feel sorry for their children as it really seems these parent have no idea what they’re getting into. I can smell a new generation being reaised on TV and the internet by equally uneducated parents already.

    • Shifter says:

      03:12pm | 16/02/11

      @Elphaba - average age of a game in Australia is over 30, right in line with people who would have played C64, Atari 2600, NES and others as kids.

      My parents were pretty liberal, but I was banned from see M rated movies until I was of age. Perhaps the ratings board should be looking at the adult themes portrayed in many video clips, usually for movies on SBS this relegates them to a M rating, but conveniently Video Hits is rated G/PG depending on the timeslot it airs.

      Rated M for misogyny has a nice ring to it.

    • Elphaba says:

      03:50pm | 16/02/11

      @Shifter, it’s been a long time since I watched Channel 10 in the morning - they used to (possibly still have) a program from about 8am which was child friendly, and then a less censored program afterwards.

      If they’re rating it G/PG, then there is probably a less risque version of the clip being aired in that timeslot.  I remember thay you never got to see the proper version of Robbie Williams ‘Rock DJ” clip because he would pull his skin off at the end.  You saw a censored version on commerical TV.

      As always, if parents feel a program is innapropriately rated, they should absolutely complain.  I’m not proclaiming we should expose kids to a smut free-for-all.  But, if the classification board at the beginning of the program says ‘M” rated, then it’s ‘M’ rated, and parents should exercise discretion, and not blame the media outlets for what their child sees.

    • Kate says:

      09:46pm | 17/02/11

      Elphaba - my parents were the same, it was quite funny. They’d crack the shits if I wanted to stay up and watch The X Files or South Park, but I started on Stephen King at age 12 and they didn’t bat an eyelid.

      They had to relent when I discovered metal music and they realised that despite trying to forbid certain albums (asking for Slayer’s ‘God Hates us All’ for Christmas didn’t go down well), I’d just buy them anyway and sneak them into the house to be listened to while they were out.

    • Tim says:

      08:34am | 16/02/11

      First of all, very poor form to attack Melinda Tankard Reist personally.

      Secondly, you miss the point completely.

      This kind of “art” desensitises the viewer to the violence it portrays. One of the ways it does so is by presenting dead women in such a way that something of their sexual allure is intentionally retained.

      There is a dissonance at work here. Whether intentional or not, the effect is to create something which is partly disturbing, partly sexual.

      One more thing: how many of Kanye’s (especially younger) fans do you think would actually read into the video all of the sexual political criticism that you claim is there? You need to get real.

      p.s. this is a far cry from the statue of David. Not even worth comparing.

    • natalie says:

      12:06pm | 16/02/11

      such a great comment, well explained Tim.

    • Jade says:

      12:45pm | 16/02/11

      In reality, Kanye West should not have younger fans. His CDs all have warning labels advising parents that the content is explicit. A brief listen to just about any one of his songs should send parents running for the off button.

      Parents who allow their children to watch music videos, listen to music without supervision or play violent video games are in my view, guilty of child neglect. You had them, it is YOUR responsibility to protect them.

      I have every right as a thinking, mature, adult woman to view works which degrade me as a woman, and to enjoy them if I choose. Kanye West included.

    • Zeta says:

      08:54am | 16/02/11

      I hate Punch/Counterpunch because I never know which one to respond to first. One is always more popular than the other and I don’t want to be the one posting in the unpopular thread.

      I freaking love that song though. Best verse of 2011. “Have you ever had sex with a pharoah? I put the p**** in a sarcophagus, now she claiming that I bruise her esophagus, head of the class and she just won a swallowship, I’m living in the future so the presence is my past - my presence is a present kiss my ass.”

      How can you not love that? ‘Swallowship’. Lol.

    • Adam Diver says:

      03:52pm | 16/02/11

      Looks like you guessed wrong on this one zeta a mere 40+ comments to 120+ on the other thread. If your playing roulette you better go against your instinct smile

      Pro Tip: Coment on the one with the least amount of logic and the most vitriol

    • Andrew says:

      09:02am | 16/02/11

      Wow. Great piece, but you are going to be harassed into your grave by the Breathless Outrage Society.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      09:10am | 16/02/11

      I notice, Stephen, you too refuse to name the elephant in the room - the fact that all the murdered women are white. Could you imagine the trouble if the rapper were white and all the murdered women were black. The American media would be all over the story like white on rice on a paper plate in a snow storm.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:21am | 16/02/11

      I know this article isnt really about Kayne but If kayne is Art then i must be Picasso. The guy stinks. I dunno what people like about him. He cant rhyme and sounds annoying…I Just dont get it, and then hardly anyone has heard of Talib Kweli, who’s new album is one of the toughest joints ive ever heard and lyrically he is up there with Eminem. Screw Kayne, cant rap, cant produce, cant sing, cant dress, cant dance, he’s the wackest fool on the planet. I mean the wackest fool “of all time”. Dickhead.

    • Spanish Girl says:

      01:34pm | 16/02/11

      Grumpy, I’m with you.  Kanye is a total waste of space, as is all rappers with their “music”. *shudder*

      But I don’t like Taylor Swift either and she can actually sing well.  It’s all about taste and the debate over who has taste and who doesn’t is largely pointless because you can only ever see something from your own point of view.  The best you can hope for is to find others who are like you and enjoy the music together.

    • Michael says:

      01:49pm | 16/02/11

      You do realise Kweli and Kanye are long time collaborators right? Kanye has produced a bunch of tracks for Talib. Just because it’s cool to hate Kanye, doesn’t mean you have to. He’s made some of the best hip-hop of the last decade (as has Kweli).

    • A.K.A. says:

      09:21am | 16/02/11

      I think the video doesn’t go far enough. 

      Kanye is saying he is the monster, but we don’t see him kill or torture anyone, he isn’t the one dragging and stepping on or eating the dead person… 

      He was surrounded by monsters, but he wasn’t being a monster in the film clip. A real monster would do his own dirty work.  Kanye is full of shit.

      That woman would see sex and filth in the sun coming up if she analyzed it hard enough. 

      “Oh, the night represents the tranquil peaceful world of the woman and the sun represents the power energy and chaos of the male.

      The sun (or the male) comes up every morning regardless of if the night (or woman) wants it to or not. 

      That is rape, for there is no other term more suitable for describing the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force.

      The night is powerless to the sun, like women are powerless to men”.

      Hmmm… maybe I have some issues too!

    • Chinaski says:

      04:19pm | 16/02/11

      Brilliant comment!

      One thing I learnt in literature classes is that you can derive a “deeper” meaning that suits your beliefs or argument from almost anything.

      If I wanted I’m sure I could argue that Nutri Grain is sexist and shows a predominatnly male-focused view of sporting technique and ability due to it being “iron man food”.

      It’s like people claiming they see numbers like 11 or 23 everywhere. How do they find these numbers in a bar of soap? Add up words, letters, etc on the packaging and divide or multiply etc and whammo - they’ve found it!

      You can find something “hidden” in anything if you look hard enough.

    • Sally says:

      10:06am | 16/02/11

      I wish she’d stop speaking for me. I have a voice and opinion, I don’t need some pearl clutcher putting words in my mouth.

    • Az says:

      10:10am | 16/02/11

      The modus operandi of any artist has just as much legitimacy as the next but frankly I don’t think Kanye West is as smart as you seem to give him credit for.

      The fact that every pop star worthy of their marketing team is trying to out-shock each other with racy videos at the moment (Gaga, Rihanna etc) makes me highly suspect particularly when they try and justify them with words clearly not part of their lyrical vocabulary.

      I mean only last week Rihanna, in Spin Magazine was trying to justify her banana felating antics from her latest video as “metaphoric”.

      I’m sure that it is no coincidence that sex sells either eh ?

      If people didn’t object then Kanye’s latest steaming pile would no doubt be passed through for our kids viewing on Saturday morning Video Hits as much this garbage seems to these days.

    • Melrusk says:

      10:24am | 16/02/11

      Thank you Stephen Harrington
      In my understanding the purpose of Art
      ” Is To Illuminate Thinking ”  (Thank you Bunyip)
      &    To Explore the Human Experience.  (?)

      We experience our world from our own personal perspective.
      A unique experience as indevidual and valid as each and every one of us.
      If what you See, Hear, Read etc evokes an emotion inside you then the artist has done thier job.
      If people respond to Art in way’s the artist had not intended, then it becomes new knowledge for the Artist to draw from.  Art feeding Art.

      Art is designed to feed Societies imagination & in turn stimulate ideas.
      For example cave paining’s, Bison beautifuly drawn in Charcoal & Ochre when man had time & the tools (through the discovery of fire) to document what was important to them (FOOD).
      They could look at these images safe from predators with time to communicate ways to better hunt.
      Art gave them a platform to imagine new ideas to improve thier lives & in this exmple Assist the survival of our species.
      I can’t comment on Kanye’s talents as I am not really familiar with them.
      I can suggest people ask them selves
          What is it that I FEEL & WHY?
      What does this tell me about my perspective?

    • Nina Funnell says:

      11:45am | 16/02/11

      Stephen

      It’s not that you are necessarily wrong, but your approach is problematic.

      Painting MTR as a shrill, hysterical caricature in order to dismiss her opinions is one of the oldest, most predictable methods used by men to disenfranchise women and their views. It weakens your argument to use personal attacks like this.

      Secondly, it is true that there are multiple ways of reading this clip and I’m not disputing that it can be read as a post-feminist critique. I also agree that at times feminists are guilty of teaching women to read their own oppression and victimization into images (what we should be doing is equipping young women with tools so they can critique culture, not teaching them to think like victims- a la Naomi Wolf style).

      However, MTR’s reading is HER reading and she is entitled to it. And by the 10 000 other names on the petition it seems she is not the only one to take offense. To effectively come alone and say “sorry sweet cheeks, you read it wrong, go back re-read the images, and this time try and look for some faux empowerment in those images” is condescending to say the least.

      It’s one thing to critique her reading, it’s another all together to delegitimize her right to form her own reading all together.

    • Stephen Fitzpatrick says:

      12:21pm | 16/02/11

      She’s welcome to her reading, it’s her call to have the clip censored that is the problem. She’s not just arguing her reading, she’s arguing that the rest of us shouldn’t be alowed to see it and form our own.

    • Erick says:

      12:56pm | 16/02/11

      “Painting MTR as a shrill, hysterical caricature in order to dismiss her opinions is one of the oldest, most predictable methods used by men to disenfranchise women and their views.”

      Just like painting men as overprivileged, frightened sex-deprived thugs is one of the oldest, most predictable methods used by feminists to disenfranchise men and their views.

      Sauce for the goose ...

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      12:57pm | 16/02/11

      A very fair point to make Nina, and undoubtedly the best comment that I’ve seen on here so far.

      Look, I 100% agree with you, that MTR is completely entitled to her own opinion. Honestly, I’m not saying hers is an incorrect opinion (and like I said in the article, I don’t doubt that her motives are altruistic), merely that it is a pretty extreme reading, and one that shouldn’t be pushed on other people. I was simply presenting an alternative view which is equally valid.

      MTR’s response to this article kinda ended up proving my point, because she uses the lyrics to a song by ‘The Lonely Island’ (featuring Akon) as evidence of Rappers’ bad attitude towards women. She totally failed to consider the fact that that ‘The Lonely Island’ are comedians, and the song itself (‘I just had sex’) is a probably trying to make fun of overtly sexual lyrics in popular music.

      That’s what I mean about making the worst possible interpretation of everything, and how it does our public debate no favours.

      Thanks for reading and commenting.

    • Luke says:

      12:30pm | 16/02/11

      Very well said. The video suits the song to a T.
      Keep doing what your doing kanye

    • Luce says:

      12:51pm | 16/02/11

      This video is gruesome and not very pleasant to watch, but the misogynistic overtones are not as degrading as the videos of some other rappers.

      That said, I can’t agree with you, Stephen, that this video is art. It adds no value to anything, aside from Kanye West’s bank account.

    • Tika says:

      01:03pm | 16/02/11

      Well said Stephen.

      While Melinda’s heart is surely in the right place, but I hate the way she goes on about it and sees evil in everything! Men are not enemies! Why do people see such a great divide between the sexes??

      I don’t feel victimized or offended when I watch this video clip. Its certainly not for children, but I don’t see why it should be banned.

    • Erick says:

      01:30pm | 16/02/11

      “Men are not enemies! Why do people see such a great divide between the sexes?? “

      It’s called feminism. About fifty years ago, a bunch of people decided that all of humanity was divided into two camps: Good women, and evil men. Ever since then, men have been “the enemy”.

    • Suno says:

      02:00pm | 16/02/11

      Christ, she finds it morally wrong for women to parade around in silky knickers for a lingerie shoot.

    • Lisa H. says:

      08:05pm | 16/02/11

      Is MTR saying that ‘men’ are the enemies? Or is she saying that women should not be used as a symbol of sexual availability, to kill or possibly rape as one wishes?
      Interesting that scientists have discovered that sex and violence activate the same brain neurons.
      Perhaps this physical reality might account for the near-constant fetishisation of sexual violence in our modern mass media.
      The fact that sex and violence activate the same area of the brain might also be an argument for an increased monitoring of the effect of sexually violent media images…  smile
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/scientists-discover-link-between-sex-and-violence-in-the-brain/story-e6frg8y6-1226003514769

    • mary monica roche says:

      01:44pm | 16/02/11

      Your comment:
      As Tony Abbott says “shit happens!”

    • Nolly says:

      01:58pm | 16/02/11

      Why do we need film clips like this ? Really ? Its completely unnecessary !
      What purpose does it serve ? - The only statement Kanye is trying to make is of dollar signs - Controversial clips make big bucks. There’s no hidden artistic merit, just cash. Ban it and all things like it.  Anyone that sees any positives in this clip at all should get help for their kids because their parenting skills will not be up to scratch

    • Chris L says:

      06:13pm | 16/02/11

      Almost always when art is discussed someone will ask “Why do we need images like this?” and the answer is that we don’t. Art is not a practical necessity for survival. It’s purpose is to reach into the subconscience, evince emotion, and perhaps get you to think on subjects from a different perspective. Arguing that this is not necessary does not remove the value of art, even art that certain individuals don’t like and thus want banned.

    • doughboy says:

      02:27pm | 16/02/11

      never liked his music and heard him in an interview once and found him to be the most arrogant and egotistical musician that i have ever heard. the only problem here is that he has the media attention and can put whatever crap he likes out there. me joe public would never get this level of publicity

    • AW says:

      03:06pm | 16/02/11

      If you read Tankard Reist’s articles she usually finds a way to mention sex, she talks about porn way to often!
      Maybe she’s hinding a secret obsession..?
      But really, I don’t understand why people go on and on about things like this, if you don’t like a film clip, don’t watch it! It’s just the same as if you don’t like the look of a movie there’s no way you’d head to the cinema to see it. And if you dont like Kanye’s music and you’ve been waiting 2 years to pounce on someone who does (I’m talking to you, James1) then that’s really just sad and a waste of energy.

    • Lisa H. says:

      07:49pm | 16/02/11

      I’m starting to think that the argument ‘don’t like it? Don’t watch’ is shallow…

      I guess it’s because we live in a community, which means we have to have some shared values to related, to enjoy life together.

      Saying ‘dont participate if you don’t like it’ is not a satisfactory response criminal situations, so why is it a satisfactory response when discussing other social behaviours or messages?

    • meinsydney says:

      03:27pm | 16/02/11

      I’m a huge Kanye fan from way back….I’ve been to 3 of his concerts and even had a backstage pass for one.  I think he’s a creative genius….but, I’ve gotta say this “art” did nothing for me and made me feel sad for him.  I think he’s gone off the rails since his mother passed away.  Thinks he has to be more hardcore rapper than he was and seems to be doing things for attention and has lost his focus.  I’m not particularly offended by it, I just think he can do much better.

    • KDB says:

      03:55pm | 16/02/11

      In the interest of full disclosure: I don’t really like Kanye, and I’ve been listening to hip hop since the age of about 6, i’m 24 now.

      So to the clip. Firstly I disagree that the clip should be banned, but restricting to an adult audience I think would be a good idea. In terms of it’s artistic merit, I disagree that as long as something registers an emotional/intelectual response it is therefore art. If that’s the definition you have, anything and everything can be art, but honestly, would you call a painting that was done to match a living room couch set art? I would hope not. Yes, great art should be able to be interpreted in a variety of ways, but the artist must have a message to convey, otherwise it’s just so much paint on a canvas or chips in a stone. Whether the viewers understand the message or take their own away is out of the artists hands at some point, but the artist must first be practicing his craft “in good faith”.

      I don’t think Kanye was trying to be artistic “in good faith”. I’ve watched the clip a few times, and listened the track off the album plenty. My interpretation of both is essentially the same. It’s self congratulatory (a trend in hip hop that’s been getting worse, but there does seem to be more social commentary coming back), and it’s also Kanyes attempt to dive into the negative impression of him held by much of the public. Much of the public don’t like Kanye due to certain interviews and media appearances, and I believe he’s tried to take that view and push it to the extreme; from being just an ass, to a blood sucking Monster. Doing this lets him to revel in it, but essentially I see it as almost a defence mechanism.

      I personally don’t see how you can view the clip as a “post-feminist critique” but I might just be missing it. If Kanye is painting himself as a monster, what is more monstrous than sexualizing and fetishizing dead women? If it’s about “vampires and bloodsuckers”, I would think there would be people other than dead white women, particularly old white men in business suits.

      I see the clip as art wank essentially, but I’m willing to be shown otherwise

    • Nolly of The Boonies says:

      04:49pm | 16/02/11

      Unless the artists are spending THEIR money instead of the public’s money, anything that doesn’t appeal to the masses is not art.  The clip is garatutitous violence. There’s nothing “Arty” about it.  Most of you kids have no idea and I emphasize the word kids

    • DS says:

      05:40pm | 16/02/11

      Funny, Nolly, us ‘kids’ seem to know more than you do. You have no idea what is art.

    • Nolly of the Boonies says:

      08:50am | 17/02/11

      Oh so it must be you DS thats spending taxpayers funds on “Art”
      Ever been to Melbourne on the Tulla Freeway and seen the “ART” there. The masses call it a “cheesecutter” and what about the publicly funded yellow peril, thats not its art name ofcourse, that was the name given to it by the masses that paid for it.  Its now nowhere to be seen. Oh thats right you wouldn’t remember that one you “art lover” your just a kid

    • caitlin says:

      06:41pm | 16/02/11

      I disagree completely. Melinda Tankard Reist truly is an advocate for women. She highlights relevant issues for women and shares her thoughtful insights. She says it like it is, regardless of how unpopular that may make her with those who disagree. That takes guts!

      There have been many times after reading her work I felt relieved to know that there were other women out there willing to tell the truth and stand up for women. She gives women a voice, and unites many of us.

      P.S. Devoting a whole article to bagging on a colleague is just plain rude.

    • Kate says:

      09:50pm | 17/02/11

      She’s certainly not an advocate for all women.

      I’m a woman. I listen to heavy metal music and watch the kind of TV shows and movies that would give MTR a heart attack. She does not stand up for me or women like me.

    • caitlin says:

      06:44pm | 16/02/11

      Oh, and P.P. S.  Way to try to undo any good that Melinda has done. But you aren’t the first man to silence women this way.

    • DS says:

      11:32pm | 16/02/11

      So, if a man disagrees with a woman, he is silencing her? Riiight. BTW, what good has she done? She’s paranoid, and her attacks upon men are absurd and disgusting.

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      10:03am | 17/02/11

      Hi Caitlin,

      If all the good that Melinda has done over the years can be undone with a single 900 word opinion piece on ‘The Punch’, then I wouldn’t have bothered writing this piece.

      Totally fine for you to disagree with me, but I also have the right to disagree with her approach too.

      Cheers.

    • Vanessa Campbell says:

      07:51pm | 16/02/11

      Kanye has about as much intelligence and sensitivity as Nigel Tufnel in “Spinal Tap”.  Just great to see that, 30 years on, women are still “Smelling the Glove”.  Misogyny in the music industry still reins supreme only now it’s being defended by silly post-modern academic twits.

    • Huey says:

      11:21pm | 16/02/11

      @ Vanessa. Well said! The video,  the song, the artist, the sentiment are crap. ‘Silly post-modern academic twits” lovely turn of phrase. So demeaning in such a pissy little- fish way. I’m going to use it myself. Thanks

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      10:21am | 17/02/11

      Thanks Vanessa for your comment. It’s good to see that anti-intellectualism is still alive and well.

      Although, I am a MASSIVE fan of “Spinal Tap”, so I do appreciate that reference. smile

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      10:22am | 17/02/11

      Thanks Vanessa for your comment. It’s good to see that anti-intellectualism is still alive and well.

      Although, I am a MASSIVE fan of “Spinal Tap”, so I do appreciate that reference. smile

    • Servaas says:

      06:00am | 17/02/11

      “she is arguably just reinforcing the old stereotype that girls are weaker and more fragile than their dominant male counterparts.”

      And? Do you suggest girls are stronger and less fragile than their dominant male counterparts?

      “This then encourages young women to view even the most mildly sexual piece of popular culture in the worst possible way, which thereby limits their ability to think about sex in a positive, healthy light.”

      Can you back this statement up with evidence perhaps? It’s not about the mildness anyway, it is about a constant and consistent message that desensitize people.

      “It makes girls more inclined to view sex – and sexual decisions – as a source of negativity and fear, rather than a natural part of life in which they can have power and autonomy.”

      Power and autonomy? What happened to normal sex with ones spouse in a safe environment?


      “unlike Melinda Tankard Reist, I don’t think I have any right to tell other people which is which.”

      Unlike Melinda Tankard Reist you ought to grow an opinion of a man who is not a moral coward. If someone told you you’re not aloud to question destructive cultural moral standards, they lied. Don’t fall for the ‘but it’s art’ line mate, tell off the producers of filth.

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      10:00am | 17/02/11

      “And? Do you suggest girls are stronger and less fragile than their dominant male counterparts?”

      No. Men and Women are equal.

      “Can you back this statement up with evidence perhaps?”

      Perhaps a question to put to MTR.

      “What happened to normal sex with one[’]s spouse in a safe environment?”

      “power and autonomy” does not mean being a dominatrix. It means being able to make independent sexual decisions free of coercion and fear.

      “Unlike Melinda Tankard Reist you ought to grow an opinion of a man who is not a moral coward.”

      Not sure what that means (are you calling MTR a moral coward?).

    • Servaas says:

      09:00pm | 17/02/11

      “No. Men and Women are equal.”

      Equal as human beings yes, but when it comes to sexual and emotional relations, relating to the topic in your and MTR’s writings, women are weaker (note: weaker in this sense is not something bad but a dangerous position for women to be in). I was referring to the fact that they are way more vulnerable than men. Men gets corrupted by this sexualised culture and also experience emotional hurt I’d say but girls definitely gets the worst of it.

      “Perhaps a question to put to MTR.”

      Ok? Just thought that the one making the statement has some reason for making it.

      “power and autonomy” does not mean being a dominatrix. It means being able to make independent sexual decisions free of coercion and fear.”

      Ok, understand you now on that.

      “Not sure what that means (are you calling MTR a moral coward?).”

      No man, don’t act silly. Well, if I was unclear:insert a comma after Reist, and I’m not saying MTR is a man either.
      Anyway, I’m just saying it is okay to speak out against obvious filth, you don’t need to defend West or whoever in the name of art.

      Just because something is art or an honest artistic expression doesn’t mean it is fine and may not be objected against. In the same way that he is allowed to spread destruction you can condemn his work and don’t have to figure out sonme way to justify it.

    • Vanessa Campbell says:

      11:30am | 17/02/11

      Your comment:Definitely wouldn’t describe you as an intellectual.  Pseudo-intellectual would be more appropriate.

    • Stephen Harrington says:

      01:05pm | 17/02/11

      Righteo. I’ll wear that badge proudly.

    • B. S. Artist says:

      02:03pm | 17/02/11

      Naming something art doesn’t make it so. Justifying the sexualisation of male violence against women in the name of art doesn’t make it OK. Male artists have a long history of exploiting women for their own ends and justifying it in the name of ‘art’. So what? To even pretend that this is some kind of artistic statement rather than the blatant cashing in on the increasingly disturbing trend for violent, pornographic, S&M style imagery towards women in all media is extremely naive and/or disengenuous. I suspect that if the video sexualised the murder of Jews by the Nazi’s, the imprisonment and torture of Afghani’s in illegal American prisons or the lynching of African-American people in trees in the name of ‘artistic expression’, we would not even be having this conversation. Yet sexualising male violence against women, which is committed in epidemic proportions around the world, is AOK as long as someone calls it ‘art’. Here’s an analysis of not only the sexism but also the racism contained in the video. Is racism justified in the name of ‘art’ too?

      http://www.racialicious.com/2011/01/18/black-monsterswhite-corpses-kanyes-racialized-gender-politics/

    • Queanbeyan Boy says:

      08:04pm | 17/02/11

      You always have to worry about someone who starts of with quoting the Simpsons - such a credible reference.  Tankard Reist is dead right in what she says and is hardly an attention seeker given the self sacrifices she makes in pursuing a better world for kids.

      It also defies belief to have Kayne say “People can view and interpret things in lots of different ways, and they have the ability to respond maturely to provocative material”.  To that anyone would have to say “some people..”

      Whe the US Senator was shot recently and others killed in the massacre, the US exploded into inrospection about how they spoke, how much violence was in their political langage.  Bill Clinton, hardly conservative or a wowser said:  “what we say falls equally on the hinged and unhinged alike”. (ABC Radio 12 Jan 11)

      What does it say then for what we see graphically and unnecessarily portrayed?

    • Carlos the wackal says:

      09:40am | 21/02/11

      Kanye is nothing more than a puppet of the industry, much like lady gaga (vomit), beyonce and rihanna, feeding senseless rubbish to our youth. Their ultimate goal is to desensitise and demoralise the kids. What is the purpose of all this violence and sexualism in current pop music? And dont say it’s always been this way. It is getting worse year by year as those who run the industry always seem to push the envelope. For what reason I do not know, but it doesn’t sit right and their is definitely a hidden agenda.

    • society is doomed says:

      09:47am | 21/02/11

      Kayne is a monster, lady gaga is raising a generation of little monsters (refer to her album) through her satanic rituals and Rihanna is glorifying suicide and S&M. What is going on these days?

    • Pharmd726 says:

      12:02pm | 08/04/11

      Hello! ddgggge interesting ddgggge site!

 

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