Reading the news yesterday that the United States bookstore chain Border has gone into bankruptcy, I began to ask myself how long it could possibly be before a big Australian chain met the same fate. Unfortunately the wait wasn’t long.

Closing up shop? Picture: AFP

A press release came out that afternoon announcing that REDGroup, who control Borders Australia, Angus and Robertson and Whitcoulls in New Zealand, were being placed into administration. This will affect 260 stores.

Really, it is a wonder this didn’t happen earlier given that Australian booksellers have been defying the laws of market theory that would have sent other businesses bust long ago. There are a few reasons why this was pretty inevitable. One involves parallel import laws and the other the internet, but the two are closely linked.

We pay more than we should for books in this country because of the parallel import laws that mean we can’t buy books also published in America or Europe if an Australian publisher wants to publish the book. In turn, the protected status of Australian publishing rights drives up the price we pay at the counter because of a lack of competition.

Publishers and most sellers argue this is justified, because it allows them to make profits on the bestsellers and then pump money back into Australian literature, that otherwise wouldn’t be viable for them to publish. Furthermore, they also argue that if the market is flooded with cheap imports then we won’t buy Australian books

This argument is largely bunkum. For all the pained bleating from Australian publishers about “Australians loving Australian voices” and “the need to protect our culture”, it comes down to them protecting profits - and largely from the mass selling Dan Brown type of stuff that they regularly bemoan.

The laws are protectionism in an era when other tariffs have been all but abolished in other industries (perhaps with the exception of our nationalised car industry). The same arguments about the end of Australian music culture were made in relation to parallel imports of CDs, and they have been shown to be rubbish. If people are buying more non-Australian (especially American) music and books – this is a pretty out there theory – perhaps they just prefer it?

It’s also interesting how willing people are to jump down the throat of a whitegoods retailer when he moans about internet sales, but get a bunch of luvvies in a room to be addressed by celebrity authors making ostensibly similar arguments, and all that free market logic and concern for the consumer dissipates.

Anyway, the argument was made and lost in cabinet last year when Kevin Rudd came down on the side of the luvvies, despite some of his ministers siding with the Productivity Commission’s recommendation to lift the ban. 

The really strange thing about the parallel import debate is it ignores the fact people are already conducting their own parallel imports over the internet. You know when you buy a book from Amazon or the Book Depository for about half the price than you would in Australia? That is just a form of parallel importing, and obviously a lot of Australians have caught on.

Recently in a Borders store I asked about a book of essays from a very prominent UK author. I was told that they didn’t have it in stock but they could order it in. For the privilege of waiting a couple of weeks I would then pay $35 for the book.

Unimpressed, I went home and logged on to Amazon. It sold me the book I wanted and another book by the same guy for just over US$20 including delivery. This was the first time I’d used the internet to buy a book, previously labouring under the misapprehension that it was better to buy from bookstores. Bookstores are nice places, but not so nice that I feel the need to pay about at least 20 per cent extra for the privilege of entering them.

Of course US booksellers face similar pressures from the internet as well as struggling with the growth of e-books, but Australian publishers and retailers are further handicapped by the fact they charge more than their US counterparts and simply won’t be able to compete anymore. Even stranger, it’s a self-imposed handicap. 

Don’t expect any kind of mea culpa from the publishers or retailers who have held the line over imports. They’ll come back with the same arguments used during the Productivity Commission debate: the US and UK don’t have parallel imports so why we should we? Because we pay more than these countries in shops, and will continue to do so, so publishers and retailers can protect a market. Or what’s left of that market.

So while we may still be paying more for books than others countries, it might soon be a pretty moot point given that there will be very few stores to buy them from – along with many new “Australian voices” looking for a job.

343 comments

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    • Rob says:

      06:00am | 18/02/11

      I’ve long used online bookstores based overseas instead of local bookstores for precisely the cost equation. We’re talking easily back into the 1990s. Then, a year or two back, when a particular online bookstore emerged in the UK (I won’t name names as that’s no my intention in making this comment), with super-low prices and FREE worldwide delivery, the thought of buying a book locally ever again seemed totally absurd to me.

    • BJ says:

      07:41am | 18/02/11

      Ditto Rob. You summed it up perfectly.

    • Steve says:

      08:03am | 18/02/11

      I haven’t bought a book in an Australian bookstore for about three years now.

      Why would you?

    • Ryan says:

      10:32am | 18/02/11

      There is a website that will compare book prices.. http://www.booko.com.au, when looking on there, the top 10 items I see have at least three that are cheapest from an Australian retailer. I guess you are still getting ripped off.

    • Rob says:

      10:34am | 18/02/11

      Totally agree, haven’t bought from an aussie retailer in years and now I have a kindle, I am buying books $10 a pop with instant delivery.

    • DD Ball says:

      10:47am | 18/02/11

      Agreed. I own a Kindle and an iPad and I get ebooks because it is easier for me than carrying my entire library. Only I can’t buy some ebooks. Publishers want to sell it, but do gooder Australian law forbids it. Try buying books by Elias Canetti, Delderfield, Piers Anthony etc etc they are available in book stores and ebook stores .. but one cannot buy them if they have an Australian address from ebook stores.
      The issue is similar with music. But with music piracy is an option.
      It has to do with confusion to do with rights .. and abysmal ALP inspired laws.

    • Thommo says:

      11:23am | 18/02/11

      You can get around location based regulations using a HSBC credit card - they set up a fake american address on your behalf and tehn forward everything to you at no charge

    • rach says:

      12:20pm | 18/02/11

      i also found the benefit of buying books online whilest trying to find a book for my dad it was actually the boarders online shop that i found it in however ehen i went into the store across from my work if i wanted them to get it i would have to pay and extra $10 than if i did it myself through the online store. I love going into book stores as i love the smell of new books and the ability to look at other books i wouldnt normally so i am saddened by this fact. ow i mostly go into book stores to price check and if i have have to wait for an ordered to book to save myself some money then i will

    • K says:

      12:22pm | 18/02/11

      I also read 90% eBooks, mainly for convenience (and have done so for many years) but I find it very frustrating to go looking for a book and discover that it is only available in the US.
      I haven’t yet tried to get around the regional restrictions, but it looks like for some books, it is the only way I am able to get ANY version, electronic or physical. I even have one book that I bought the eBook verison then later it had regional restrictyions added to it!

    • Japius says:

      12:38pm | 18/02/11

      I tried buying from Borders last year, Books arent usually something I need right away so am happy to buy online and wait delivery. My usal experience was with an overseas website and I would order and take delivery at the very latest within 2 weeks.

      I ordered a title from Borders online and besides being quite a bit more expensive it took almost 5 weeks to deliver.

      Even when these Australian chains try to comepte online they still screw the whole experience up.

    • Andy D says:

      12:49pm | 18/02/11

      Ryan, I did a search for a book I have been wanting on http://www.booko.com, I found that there were indeed three Australian retailers in the top 10 best priced retailers for that book. Two of them were at least double the price of bookdepository.

      The third Australian site that had the book for less than 10 dollars more than bookdepository was actually a bit of a scam. They say they have 2 copies of the book in stock and that if you order in the next nine hours they will ship it today, but once you get to the checkout page they tell you that they will only ship the book today if you want to pay an extra $14.00.

      If you want to pay the advertised price you have to wait a minimum 10 days before the item will be “shipped from their Australian warehouse”, which coincidentally is the same time it would take for them order the book from bookdepository, resend it to me and pocket the difference.

      Just another example of an Australian retailer trying to rip-off, deceive or scam customers. And they wonder why we buy from overseas?

    • Kyra says:

      01:31pm | 18/02/11

      Agree Andy D. Ryan the book I searched for was listed on booko and Amazon and bookdepository.co.uk still cheaper than Australian sites. Even with the shipping to pay at Amazon

    • Rob the (former) Bookseller says:

      01:36pm | 18/02/11

      I take it therefore that you won’t mind reducing your salary and conditions to the lowest common denominator?  I speak as a retailer who has just closed an independent bookshop because we lost too much money.  I’m happy to try and compete with the big stores and the internet on the basis of free market competition, but when I have to pay people $25 per hour plus on costs instead of US minimum wage of $7 per hour plus much lesser on costs (only 2 weeks annual leave, lesser super, insurances etc) and Sydney retail rents instead of warehouses in the middle of nowhere (Sydney rent around $800 per sq metre per annum vs $12 psmpa for a US warehouse operation) then you see why Australian books are not cheap compared to the internet.  I could usually beat the big shops on service, we would just get the customer what they wanted because that was what we did, it was our passion.  I couldn’t spread my overheads over the sales levels that Borders et al do, and I can’t get their level of discounts, but we could do service.  Unfortuneately that wasnt enough, it got to the point we became a library, people would come in, browse, read as much as they needed to in order to determine that the book was teh one they wanted then they would put it back on the shelf and leave to get it from Amazon etc.  That smarts.

      Get used to it - NOTHING in this country is cheap, it’s an effect of our standard of living. 

      As for that UK store, they can only do that because Royal MAil in the UK was used as a government incentive to get businesses into “disadvantaged” areas.  That site pays *NOTHING* for postage, the UK government picks up the tab.  Give me that same deal and I’ll happily pass it along, but as it stands Aus post is a relatively expensive option.

      And it’s not just bookshops that are struggling, look around most shopping malls and street shop, there are vacancy signs everywhere.  Yes, it makes sense to save $ by buying online, yes that’s competition, but exactly how much competition will you be happy to accept for your own job?  Think about it that way and it puts it into perspective.

    • Diogenes says:

      02:16pm | 18/02/11

      Not mentioned in the article were management failures…...

      “Private equity” deals were once all the rage in Australian financial markets. The model was simple: make a takeover offer for a stock exchange-listed company, take it “private” (ie, delist the company from the stock exchange), load the company with debt, and whack on a metaphorical coat of paint before floating the company to gullible investors.

      It only works, however, if you’ve got a bubble to ride on. When interest rates are rising and stock exchange investors are wary, the private equity model fails.

      Management was also behind the conversion of a former powerhouse brand – Angus & Robertson – into a sad imitation of “big box” retailing.
      Angus & Robertson stores under REDGroup looked like remainder dump bins. Instead of being able to browse for anything and everything, customers were offered whatever happened to be available in bulk and at a discount – but not enough of a discount to challenge the supermarket bookshelves. When Woolworths could squeeze a publisher down to $15 retail for a Harry Potter, why would customers got to a bookshop to buy it at $20?

    • Nat says:

      04:21pm | 18/02/11

      @ Rob the former bookseller:

      The main issue (for me) is that the price of the books themselves in Australia not the overheads relating to running a business.

      I don’t believe that as a bookseller you got twice the profit that an independent American bookseller did for selling the same book despite the massive discrepancy between the prices.

      I love buying books online as they are cheaper and in my experience many bookshops (particularly chains) don’t actually provide any better service than I get from my Amazon suggestions.  But that’s just my experience.

      To put this into perspective, the majority of my purchases when overseas on holiday are books.  From bookshops.  Both chain and independant.

      Simply put, I can buy 1 book from an Australian shop vs 3 or 4 books from an online shop or overseas bookshop.

      But then, the price of the books are reasonable, the way they aren’t here…

    • Cate P says:

      04:43pm | 18/02/11

      Yup.  Ordered a book from that unnamed UK book store, it arrived in 8 days.  People who ordered on line from an Australian book store paid more and were still waiting after 3 weeks.  If they won’t or can’t keep up and compete, they will go under.  And parcels in the post are exciting.

    • Chris says:

      09:47pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob the (former) Bookseller

      “Get used to it - NOTHING in this country is cheap, it’s an effect of our standard of living.”

      Where were you when 1 Aus dollar buys only 47c US? When tourists flocked to our shore and buy finds everything is cheap in Australia? Were you even in Australia when the Sydney Olympic took place? To say NOTHING is cheap here in Australia shows that you either have a very short memory or you selectively forget things.

      Who knows how long AUS$ will stay on/above parity with US$? While it is, we might as well utilize our purchasing power. Consumers are using it, so why can’t the retailers and importers? A book costs $39.99 10 years ago is costing $49.99 today, and we all know our books are imported and bought in bulk in US$, so why can’t the savings be passed onto the consumers? TV importers have successfully done it, so why can’t the book importers?

      I don’t blame the booksellers, especially not the independent bookshops. I blame the importers, the publishers and greedy landlords like Westfield. They’re the ones who’s created the artificial unavailability of goods to consumers. Australia may be far away from the rest of the world, but it’s not far enough to justify us paying double or triple the price for a very small range of goods which are readily available in the rest of the world.

      I say it’s time the retailers put customers’ priorities over their own priorities.

    • Mick says:

      02:16am | 20/02/11

      I couldn’t agree more with Rob - I stopped buying locally at almost the time that Amazon appeared on the internet. Prior to that, I’d stock up on books whenever I visited the USA.

    • Wayne says:

      03:55am | 20/02/11

      I went into a major Australian bookstore at Xmas to buy a particular book. I have an iPad and like to read on that. After complaining at the counter that certain books are not available for me to download either from overseas or locally, I was fobbed off. I saw the book I wanted. It was more than double the price of overseas hardcopy, let alone as cheap as the digital version. I sat in the bookstore and downloaded the book from overseas, and bought 3 others, which I had on my iPad in about 60 secons. The four overseas bought digital books cost less than the 1 local hardcopy. The bookstore was going to get back to me about my query. I am still waiting. It is not just price, but availability and service that counts. I would like to buy local; but they must get with the plan first!!!!

    • jim says:

      08:26am | 20/02/11

      Uni textbooks… the same deal. Thats why Uni’s now don’t release the names of the textbooks used in the course, until the courses start. This is to reduce the time needed for the book to arrive in Australia… if the course starts today, then I have no choice but to buy it now than wait 6 weeks for it to arrive.

    • nankypoo says:

      09:39am | 20/02/11

      Wayne (03:55) you shot yourself in the foot, buddy. “certain books are not available for me to download either from overseas or locally”, then “I sat in the bookstore and downloaded the book from overseas, and bought 3 others, which I had on my iPad in about 60 secons”. See the discepancy here?

    • Ryan says:

      09:28am | 21/02/11

      @Andy D: I am not sure what you are looking at, I love cook books so I guess we might be looking at different things, one Australian retailer listing on http://www.booko.com.au selling Jamie’s 30-minute Meals for instance is cheaper than bookdepository by more than $5 and free post. I order from them quite regularly and receive my books pretty much within two to three days.
      Put quite simply, bookdepository is most definitely not always the cheapest place to buy from, shopping around is always a good idea if you want the best deal.

    • Fog Badger says:

      06:07am | 18/02/11

      “... I went home and logged on to Amazon. It sold me the book I wanted and another book by the same guy for just over US$20 including delivery. “

      That says it all, really.

    • DH says:

      08:56am | 18/02/11

      Unless I find a good offer here, I’ll always buy from Amazon. And I believe they have a free delivery to Australia and NZ offer at the moment. Time to stock up!

    • Dumbfounded says:

      08:55pm | 18/02/11

      I’ve bought about 20 books from that unnamed UK website in the last year.  All of them well under Australian retail - in a few cases up to 50% under -  and they’ve all landed on my doorstep with no charge and no fuss in ten days or less.

      Money talks….bull#-you-know-what walks.

    • kk says:

      05:46pm | 19/02/11

      OK, so lets assume that this is the way it goes from here on. Everyone gets cheaper books from overseas.
      Therefore, Australia loses it’s protected district copyright.
      This means that publishing houses, such as Penguin, no longer have territories, and can streamline their product overheads, meaning savings passed on to customers.
      BUT.
      Australian authors are stuffed.
      Local publishing houses will not have the pull to push their authors, as it’s all run from the US.
      Local authors are already up against it because the marketting money spent from overseas is much greater than the local money.
      We’ll get cheaper books, provided you like derivitave hollywood type pulp.

    • bilby says:

      08:50pm | 20/02/11

      Bull KK, name one local book which has been published because local publishers wanted to generously promote a ‘local’ up and coming author.  Every local author is published because they publisher thinks they will earn them money, ie. they are already established successful authors.  Overseas publishers are more generous when it comes to up and coming authors.  This argument that local publishing helps struggling authors is nonsense, they will only publish authors they think will earn them money, they’d be stupid to do otherwise.

    • Carz says:

      06:14am | 18/02/11

      I love bookshops. There is something magical about being able to wander aisle after ailse of books. But I don’t like the prices. Why would anyone buy from a specialist book shop when they can go to Big W or KMart and get the same best sellers and new releases for a lot cheaper. And if they don’t have a book I am looking for then yes, I hit the internet. Amazon and Fishpond are so much more reasonably priced, even factoring in the delivery. I’m afraid that on this one the book shops have slit their own throats.

    • Vaunted says:

      08:28am | 18/02/11

      Checking out the current trendy book offerings works for me too Carz but it goes further than that. There’s no doubt that Amazon presents much better value; my recent uni text book purchase from them saved me more than $500 over local prices, however those street-front booksellers who seem to survive and prosper are staffed by people who obviously actually care about and read books, are eager to serve and are capable of making conversational recommendations (a mysterious business technique I believe they call ‘selling’). Buying a book from a chain bookstore reminds me of shopping for clothes at K-Mart; what you see is what you get, expect no service whatsoever because you won’t get any, and if you can afford not to you’d probably only do it once.

    • Carz says:

      09:30am | 18/02/11

      Vaunted, I would rather go to Big W and pay $19.76 for a new release paperback than buy the same thing at a Boarders or A&R any day, regadless of how much money I have. Boarders and A&R and their ilk are just another chain store with people who know next to nothing about their products. Give me a REAL bookstore and yes, I will pay the extra, but not to these chain store vultures.

    • Joan says:

      11:49am | 18/02/11

      I too love bookshops ... some more than others… nothing like a leisurely browse on a Sunday afternoon…the ambience of the shop, the magic of books, the magic of the search/adventure to find a new unknown book . the feel of the book in your hands, the smell of the paper/print , the invitation of the dust jacket of a hardback to look inside,  the expectation of a solid read, or the appreciation of gloss of art ,pictures of that coffee table book -  this you will never experience from a net purchase or Big W which are just clinical calculated experiences.

    • Rossco says:

      06:30am | 18/02/11

      I have bought about $500 bucks worth of books from overseas in the last 6 months, all with free delivery, and all about 1/3-1/2 the price I would pay here. I would just like to say Im happy to contribute to the dismantling of the uncompetitive, rip off Australian booksellers market.

    • Rob says:

      01:40pm | 18/02/11

      Excellent, I’m glad you believe in the free market and don’t believe in the “rip off”. 

      Feel free to drop a resume in and I’ll pay you $7 an hour, after all, given that’s the US (let alone Chinese) labour rate I’m sure when it directly affects *YOU*  and what *YOU* earn that you won’t be all hypocritical and want to be paid more than someone earns in the same job overseas.  That’s free market behaviour after all…

    • Kia says:

      07:01am | 19/02/11

      Rob:
      You can’t have it both ways.  You can’t complain about the protections given Australian workers while simultaneously arguing for protectionism for your business.  Your hypocrisy is blatant.  Admit it: even if you were paying your unfortunate employees peanuts, you’d still be charging huge prices compared to Big W and Amazon.
      You said it yourself: Australia is a small market.  Maybe the reality of that is that a lot of retailing in Australia just doesn’t work.  The world is changing; anyone who can’t adapt and change will fall behind.  That’s free market behaviour after all.

    • Zoe says:

      12:45pm | 20/02/11

      It’s not just booksellers that will take a hit here; it’s publishers as well. With a shrinking number of book stores and a shrinking number of people buying books locally, the obvious next step is a reduction in the number of Australian publishers. And the obvious next step from there is a reduction in opportunities for Australian authors. And from there - less books available for Australians of all ages to read that reflect OUR experiences and culture.

      I find that really disturbing and more than a little worrying, and truly, I think anyone in Australia who loves to read should be concerned about the potential this has to dismantle an aspect of our culture.

      Self publishing and e-publishing are there as options, but a recent foray into “free” books online has only served to highlight the value of publishers in highlighting the good stuff and burying the crap.

      Obviously for Australian writing to have any kind of future, we need a new model… but what…? There has to be something better than watching it die.

      I’d love someone to tell me that this picture of gloom is implausible and impossible.

      (And no, I don’t work in publishing or book selling and never have; nor am I an author or even a wannabe author. Nor do I think the world begins and ends with Australian writing. I just know that I want to have the option. My kids are keen readers and I want them to have the option too.)

    • Rich says:

      08:01am | 21/02/11

      Rob,
      The AUS25/hr vs US7/hr quoted above is not a comparison of equal positions. In Australia the sales person would be on closer to $12/hr. Australia is way over priced because of low competition levels i.e., because the can.

    • Scotchy says:

      06:37am | 18/02/11

      I but all my tech books by way of amazon. I ordered a book monday this week and had it on the doorstep by DHL yesterday (Thurs), the book and delivery (@$67) still came in at least $40-$50 less than Angus and Roberston. Little wonder the book stores here are dying, Sure I would buy locally if 1: The book was in stock 2: The price was on a par with the US or Europe. Its time the laws changed and we stop this idiotic protectionist policy system. Oh, I also ordered electronics from the US that the Apple store here charges twice the price for from the same supplier in US! Wake up Australia (Retailers), the customer wants value for money and we can get it through eTailing in the US and Europe. We have been ripped off enough!!!

    • Rob the (former) Bookseller says:

      01:42pm | 18/02/11

      Hey there.  Let’s assume your tech books are for something like architecture or something.  I’m assuming you’re not a hypocrite so you won’t be too upset about having to compete with outsourced people in India and the like when you graduate and are looking for a job.  After all, if I can get them to do up my drawings or presentations why exactly do I need to pay more for an Australian to do the smae work at a much higher rate…

    • Angus says:

      03:16pm | 18/02/11

      Rob, those of us in technical / IT jobs ARE competing with outsourced people in India, and have been doing so for many years now.

    • Chewy says:

      03:57pm | 18/02/11

      Robs clearly making a valid point. Australians find any advocation for a reduction in pay and conditions repugnant but by purchasing online they are actually advocating for a reduction in pay and conditions. Clearly anyone screaming ‘rip off’ is oblivious to the fact they want to have their cake and eat it too unless ofcourse they are willing to take a pay cut.
      Oh and Rob you are forgetting about super mate but you are bang on mate.

    • Thinker says:

      04:45pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob,

      I’m in IT. We compete against cheap outsourced solutions EVERY day. They are FAR cheaper than us. So why are we still in business? Because we provide a better level of service, and have higher skilled professionals, for your project. 

      In your case it is the OPPOSITE. The internet booksellers provide better service than brick and mortar stores. They deliver faster, can get out-of-stock books quicker, they are more convenient and they are cheaper.

      If they were slower, inconvenient and a hassle - then we wouldn’t care about the price - we’d go to you. But that’s not the case.

      So YOU need to figure out a way to compete - and you obviously can’t compete on price (I totally hear what you’re saying about being unable to reduce prices, due to labour and rent costs in this country).

      Maybe look into book readings, free coffee or open up online yourself? This isn’t the 70s; if competition is tough you need to either adapt, or get out.

    • Winks says:

      05:52pm | 18/02/11

      I think the point you are missing Rob is that if you sold your books cheaper or compeditively to overseas options then you would increase your stock turn over by a significant amount, which in turn would mean that you would meet your overheads that you keep mentioning. Some times it is better to sell many at a smaller profit margin than few at a large profit margin, you will meet the same requirements in the end which is a viable business with a good following of repeat customers.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:16pm | 18/02/11

      General: Yep, IT guys compete with Mumbai etc and we all scream and say how dreadful it is when that happens.  But when it comes to our own direct expenditure, the one place where we have a chance to determine where money is spent (as opposed to it being done by corporations), we choose to go overseas.  I accept that, it makes a lot of sense.  But let’s not be hypocritical about it and face facts as to what it is we are actually doing.

      @Thinker:  You’re spot on.  The decision was pretty simple.  We closed.  5 FTE jobs lost.  No big deal to you most likely, pretty crappy for the guys.  Free coffee was a good and bad exerience, people came in, they read, sales even lifted and the cost of damaged books went through the roof.  We are still online, biggest issue there is keeping data up to date.  Given I can’t even buy books at a wholesale price that is cheaper than Amazon sells direct to the public that’s a lost cause as well.  Stock will be run out and that’s the end of it.

    • kasper says:

      09:33pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob,

      You can buy cheaper from amazon than from your wholesaler? Who should be the one fighting that fight, us as the consumer, or you as the bookseller?? The industry appears to have supported the current uncompetitive scenario. When are booksellers going to do something about it? Its not up to the consumer to keep the industry afloat.

    • Andre says:

      09:24am | 21/02/11

      Rob - The bottomline is: online provides more value than local bookstores. If a local business cannot compete with that, then get the hell out of the industry.

      Yes, I get it: The price is high not because you publishers and book sellers are greedy. It’s because of the high wages, the unreasonable rent, the small market and all that. The question is, what are you going to do?

      It’s a sign of a loser to complain of the circumstances, you know?

      If the industry is dying, get out. I am PERFECTLY happy if Australia has no publishers or book sellers. And don’t give me that local author argument. Are you telling me our local authors are so crappy they have to rely on the charity of local publishers? Are you telling me there are no local authors who are published internationally?

      The world is changing. Being a book publisher in Australia today sucks just as it began to suck as a manufacturer when China began their climb. The question you should ask is: What should I do, now that I am in Australia, that will give me the best chance to thrive as a business?

      It’s marketing 101: The business cycle. It’s your fault you don’t have an exit plan ready.

      And oh, we bought a lot of stuff from China, India and other third world countries. Yet I don’t see why our wages have to the same as theirs. What makes books so different?

      By the way, I run several businesses in Australia, so YES, I understand the difficulties us Australian business owners face. But if you can’t handle the challenges, you shouldn’t BE an entrepreneur.

    • bec says:

      06:46am | 18/02/11

      The Book Depository. Enough said. As soon as I discovered that, I never set food in a non-second hand bookshop again.

    • Rob the (former) bookseller says:

      01:47pm | 18/02/11

      Yep, gotta love them.  You do know that they don’t give you free postage the UK government does that don’t you?  That may soon end, are you *SURE* that’s enough said?

    • Nat says:

      04:52pm | 18/02/11

      @ Rob:

      Even with postage the books are still significantly cheaper.

      Enough said.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:19pm | 18/02/11

      @Nat: Generally not.  Well under RRp in some cases, usually the same titles you can find in Target etc at massively discounted prices.

    • Aaron says:

      12:13pm | 19/02/11

      @ Rob, While I do sympathise with a business going under, and that books are somewhat cheaper from amazon than from your supplier, why not just order your books from amazon instead of the wholesaler? Put a small mark up on them and I’d be willing to buy that.

    • Richo says:

      04:35pm | 19/02/11

      Rob - if you’re complaining about rental and other costs, thats not the consumers fault. Rental managers better start lowering prices so the bricks and mortars stores can compete or else the rental managers are going to lose big time. Lets face it, they deserve too, places like Westfield charge disgraceful rents and this should not be supported.. Also, a sales person selling a product which requires little techincal knowledge deserves nowhere near $25 p/h.

    • rich says:

      08:16am | 21/02/11

      Rob I think you should read carefully what Casper et al. have said. They have clearly stated your position and the way forward.

    • Barry Brown says:

      07:07am | 18/02/11

      A british friend of mine in uk wanted to replace his missing west australian country womens association cookery book,Quote from australia $35 plus delivery,same book from amazon in uk 16 pounds with free delivery,how come?

    • Nafe says:

      11:00am | 18/02/11

      Do the Conversion from Pounds to Dollers. It’s not as big a markup on that book as is appears with your figures.

    • marley says:

      04:27pm | 18/02/11

      @Nafe - yeah, but why is it even in the same ballpark?  How can that British retailer buy the book, ship it from Australia, market it, and ship it back for slightly less than it costs to buy it here without its world travel record.?

    • Pat Sibbald says:

      06:57pm | 18/02/11

      At current rates: A$25.68 (effectively 27% off).  Looking for a book last night myself I found that amazon.uk had it for A$8.15, amazon $6.71 A&R $17.95 and Borders $19.95.  I’m sympathetic to the plight of local retailers but if buying local reduces my buying power by 55-64% then in effect i am already earning that reduced income with which you keep threatening us.

    • deb says:

      07:08am | 18/02/11

      I cant afford to buy books,my first and most faithful love.Since i was five years old i have had a an affair with the written word.
      Never has a book let me down.Now i go to our local library (located in the local high school) and weekly get my fix.
      If i was to buy my books i wouldnt eat. Our small library struggles to keep a supply of new books and most are eighties editions.
      we need to keep our young reading books.make them affordable.Imagination starts young and i believe the written word is easier to absorb and retain then some bl#$%dy movie!

    • Lee says:

      10:27am | 18/02/11

      agree, agree, agree.

    • Stoula says:

      10:53am | 18/02/11

      I agree too. I just bought myself an Amazon Kindle and buy books on there that range from $8.00 to about $20.00. Its a remarkable little thing. I also love to read. I love it more and more since i get older and buying books now are just so expensive, i still have books on my bookshelf of course, so i would love to still hang onto them. I might buy the occasional book if i can’t get it on my Kindle, but will definetly be buying it online.

    • Kika says:

      01:01pm | 18/02/11

      I love books too. But I can fair say a lot have let me down! Can’t stand reading a book you wanted to read but can’t get into. Totally agree about getting kids to read. Nothing is better than a good book - your imagination is far more entertaining than tv or movies.

    • Nat says:

      05:00pm | 18/02/11

      @ Deb:

      Not as enjoyable as reading a real book but you can also download the Kindle software to your computer, smartphone etc and read Kindle books from your Amazon account if you aren’t interested/able to buy a Kindle…

      @ Stoula:

      Better still, if you want to read classics or authors trying to get an audience, there are thousands and thousands of free Kindle books.

    • acotrel says:

      07:23am | 18/02/11

      I find most book stores and music shops don’t cater for my tastes.  Perhaps they should do more market research, and learn what their customers who have money, really want?  JB Hi-Fi in the Melbourne suburb of Brighton had a young woman working for them who used to stock classical music DVDs.  I have a flat screen TV with a decent sound system hooked up, and I love discs of orchestras playing the classics.  However, in every other music store the customers catered for, are obviously pimply faced kids with no dough!  Try and buy a decent blues DVD sometime, you’ll be looking a long time.

    • mike j says:

      11:29am | 18/02/11

      Guess what? They already did the market research, and found that only a few pompous old windbags listen to classical music anymore. At least the ‘pimply faced kids with no dough’ have eclectic tastes and don’t just listen to elevator music.

    • Chris says:

      11:59am | 18/02/11

      I think that’s a bit of a generalization.  I like classical music as well, but let’s be honest, unless it’s Andre Rieu, it’s not going to be a best seller.

      The music that’s for “pimply faced kids with no dough,” is actually listened to be a lot of 20 and 30 somethings with big TV’s and sound systems and heaps of disposable income.  The music stores cater for the markets where they know they will make the most sales.

    • BB says:

      07:23am | 18/02/11

      Personally id rather read from a book than a screen for a crappy e-book.  E-books do not have that “book smell” nor do they have the tactile feel of turning the page.  Book stores and publishers may well have contributed to their own downfall but its the Australian government who helped them by digging the grave they have fallen into.

    • AndrewK says:

      07:56am | 18/02/11

      I used to think the same thing, but my missus recently bought me one of the latest Amazon Kindles, and I’ve got to say, they are properly brilliant. It’s not like reading off an LCD screen, it is more like (for lack of a better term) liquid paper.

      I’ve heard John Safran talk about how people have looked down at him for using a Kindle to read ebooks, and how most of the time it’s simply a lack of exposure that’s the root cause.

    • Colleen A says:

      08:27am | 18/02/11

      I don’t think that Leo or any of the commentors were are saying they’ve bought E-books. They’ve bought actual books just through an on-line bookstore

    • Carz says:

      09:20am | 18/02/11

      I have a Kobo and love it. I have books on it but I can also download all the journal articles and other resources I need for uni onto it. Much easier than lugging around bloody great folders.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:54am | 18/02/11

      @Carz, maybe you can help me:

      The Kobo on the Borders AU website is $179, the same Kobo on the Border US website is $99.  Can you buy a Kobo from the US Borders and use it here in AU without any problems?

      I’d consider buying one for under $100 for when I travel…

    • Denny Crane says:

      10:26am | 18/02/11

      Elphaba, Yes you can, you would also be able to, problem is the might not ship direct to Australia, to get around this set up a American address website i believe is HOPSHOPGO, owned by paypal, you can then ship here, at very reasonable price.

      Check e reader websites before buyiing KOBO, you might be able to find one better, and cheaper, check WALMART in US for this.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:40am | 18/02/11

      Thanks Denny, Borders US ships to AU for less than $10, however that hopshopgo is fantastic, thanks for the tip!  My flatmate was trying to order some books from the US and they wouldn’t ship to AU, so I will pass on that site.

      Thanks again.

    • TM says:

      12:45pm | 18/02/11

      I think you can buy a simulated “book smell” spray on E-bay? smile

    • Kate says:

      01:40pm | 18/02/11

      I have a Kindle for my iPhone which is nice when I’m reading on the tram. But I agree, I like the book feel and book smell and will continue to buy hard copy books. I do so online though, more titles available and less of a rip off.

    • Nat says:

      05:07pm | 18/02/11

      My Kindle gets a workout on the bus to work or when I am away from home.  It is so convenient to be able to have my entire library (and anything I find when I browse and buy on the spot) when away from the house.

      At home, I only read real books as I enjoy reading actual books.

      The only downside to this arrangement is that I am working my way through doubling up my favourites…

      But what the heck, when I can buy the books twice from Amazon for less than I can buy one copy in Australia.

    • KH says:

      07:25am | 18/02/11

      The obvious issue for me is the localisation of books for our market.  The nuances and spelling differences are subtle - but they do exist, and because you live here you probably don’t even notice.  Writing and publishing are the voice of a culture - we are not american, so I would hate to see their poor spelling and their local language drown our voice out.

      The more problematic part is Australian authors.  People kid themselves that we somehow are big enough a market to sustain all kinds of things - we aren’t.  The truth is, on a global scale, we are miniscule.  The state of California has nearly twice our entire population.  Whilst established authors may get a guernsey from an overseas publisher, new ones will find the going much harder, especially if they are writing in an ‘australian voice’ which isn’t appealing to an overseas publisher making all the decisions, since there won’t be any local publishers.  Ultimately, I can see them having to change to some generic style in order to get published, and this would only further mute our voice.  I don’t want to live in a world where everywhere is the same, and all voices are ‘one’ - I don’t want to live in some defacto state of the USA.  You might think that is stretching it - but each small thing that is taken away adds up to something much bigger that will be impossible to reverse.  These battles might individually seem inconsequential - but all together, they are the battle for our soul.  Its a slippery slope - we have already fallen over the edge - seen any TV lately?  You can count the Australian shows that aren’t sport or news/current affairs on one hand.  Why go to the trouble of hiring Australian actors and crews at great cost, when you can just pick up the latest american sitcom for a few thousand per episode?  And, bonus, its already been tested over there.  Publishing will go the same way - it will just be too expensive to support Australian writers.

      It doesn’t take a genius to see that having everything cultural like music, books and TV/movies come from overseas means the chances of any of our own citizens wanting to write, play music or make movies etc will become less.  Eventually, there will be no chance at all in this country, as we will be at the mercy of overseas publishers/producers etc, who are obviously going to be biased towards their own - besides, our market is so small, it would hardly be a great loss to them to ignore us.

      Creativity is a huge part of what makes a culture, the stuff that makes us stand out from others.  Allowing other markets to dominate us and take away opportunities for our own people will only make us poorer in the end.  We have some talented people in this country - it would be tragic to see them all end up joining the daily grind or having to leave the country.  I like cheap, but I also like our country and what we have here.  I just don’t want that to be taken away.

    • marley says:

      07:53am | 18/02/11

      Not sure I agree with this take on things.  I was back in Canada not so long ago, and noticed that books there are about 2/3 the cost of what they are here, although Canada is not that much bigger a market.  Furthermore, the CanLit market was flourishing - all sorts of Canadian authors from the heavies like Margaret Atwood and John Ralston Saul to the poets like Alice Munro to lighter stuff like crime novels. 

      The fact is, by forcing consumers onto the international book market through their idiotic pricing strategies, local book sellers are doing nothing to help Australian culture;  quite the reverse.  If their prices were more in line with global prices, they would get more people into their stores who might just pick up a local product.  As it is, those local products are going to get less and less exposure.

    • stevem says:

      10:39am | 18/02/11

      As the author of the article wrote, the same arguments were made about music a decade ago, but we still have local musicians creating music today - only the middlemen have suffered. Australian TV is largely rubbish because of local content laws, not in spite of them. TV stations have to produce so much local content the just pour out more reality crap rather than being creative.

      Finally just how much should we be forced to pay for Australian spelling? Buy from a UK web site that’s at least as cheap as the US anyway.

      The current model is broken and will take down all bar niche bookshops. Many small bookshops have already closed, unnoticed by the media. This is just another chapter and its up to the entire industry to adjust or die. This time the publishers will have to take notice as this warning is too great to miss.

    • Michael says:

      01:32pm | 18/02/11

      I understand having locally published versions of Australian books and therefore keeping some sort of industry protectionism in place, but in other circumstances it makes no sense at all.  If I buy a book published by an American author, through an American publisher printed in the USA, why should I expect a special version to be printed just for us because we don’t want to see words like gasoline, color, humor, etc?  Currently all books are far more expensive in Australia than the UK or USA, regardless of who published them and where.

    • KH says:

      02:20pm | 18/02/11

      Michael - those words will then become common use here - thus taking away australian english.  Some of us think that is important.

      Stevem - reality tv is cheap to produce, compared to paying proper actors and writers - which was my point.  It costs money to make proper dramas and the like - in this country, given the small market (and thus smaller advertising dollar) its a big gamble to spend all that money without a guarantee of success.  In the US, they make pilots all the time that end up going no where, but they have the money to do it.  Lots of sport makes up the rest.  Local content laws are the only thing between us and a 100% USA filled TV schedule.

    • Rev says:

      07:29am | 18/02/11

      You’re a fool if you don’t consult the internet before purchasing almost anything these days. 

      The only reason I would enter a physical retail store in Australia (apart from my fetish for horrible customer service and high prices) is if I need something immediately.

    • Debs says:

      10:05am | 18/02/11

      Agree with you 100% Rev - I’m exactly the same.  I have access to the internet and a daily postal service ... so I can largely avoid horrible service and inflated prices.

    • Eskimo says:

      07:31am | 18/02/11

      eReaders will in turn destroy online book stores.

    • Dave says:

      07:56am | 18/02/11

      not everybody has or wants an ereader as they are not practical for all book .

    • Rob says:

      08:30am | 18/02/11

      Not really as online bookstores are the primary sellers of e-book material.

    • Conrad says:

      08:49am | 18/02/11

      Disagree.

      The Book Depository is a perfect example of how to run an online book store.  Free shipping and books at a reasonable price, not the exortion that our book stores run here.

      Secondly, while E Readers are good (I have a kindle), I can’t cook a meal whilst flicking through an E Reader so I think book stores will continue to live providing that their prices are competitive with the online prices.

    • James Mc says:

      10:41am | 18/02/11

      Try reading a e-book around a pool or at the beach.
      Also - no power, no books

    • clazberri says:

      12:20pm | 18/02/11

      I really hope not Eskimo.

      My eyes can’t handle reading too much off a computer screen; and I’m not interested in printing it myself either.

      Also, I love the physical attributes of books. 

      I love books so much that I even have little “This book belongs to …” stickers that are in every book I own.

    • Rob the (former) bookseller says:

      01:50pm | 18/02/11

      Conrad, Book Depository is a perfect example of Governemnt intervention distorting the so called free market.  The UK government pays for their postage under a scheme whereby the Royal Mail provide “free” postage to any business which sets up in a “disadvantaged” area.

      Once that subsidy stops how do you think you’ll go with your “perfect example”?

    • kyra says:

      03:29pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob, then I’ll switch to Amazon who charge for postage and whose prices including shipping are on the same level as bookdepository’s. And yep they don’t pay their staff or packers much but being in a rural remote area with one bookshop who doesn’t stock what I want at a reasonable price I have no problem with it. Also perhaps you can explain to me why standard international shipping takes less time to get here than a book shipped from Sydney? ( I am talking 2 weeks from US vs. 6-8 weeks Sydney).

      Also can you explain why a book released OS in February and was supposed to be released on Aus in Feb was pushed back until May, then July and then had the title changed by the publisher?

      For the record I do buy books from the local bookshop, the service is good and they have a rewards club that gives me discounts. I enjoy having a book the second I want it. But their prices are cost prohibitive in a lot of cases especially with the same books at the Target next door for $10 to $15 less.

    • Me Ed says:

      04:41pm | 18/02/11

      Rob the (former) bookseller - yes, Govt intervention in a ‘free’ market is the source of the problem. Unions are not blameless either. Both of them demand all sorts of protection for workers and put unreasonable costs on business and then wonder why businesses struggle and have to lay off workers. Unfortunately, it’s book stores at the moment but other industries will follow. Govt laws and regulations mean we are uncompetitive. The only way to remedy that is to deregulate and get the Govt the heck out of everything.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:24pm | 18/02/11

      @Kyra: For postage I have no idea, I can only direct you to Aus Post.  The bookseller really can’t do much about that one.

      For book availability you are talking about what was one of the banes of my life.  I would work with my customers to get preorders ready so they could have books on the very date of release and then in roughly 30% of all cases I had to explain to them that there were delays due to stock availability, print runs, whatever else we got told we passed straight on. Not unreasonably customers thought we were BSing them when it happened 2 or 3 times.  It happens all the time in an office or other work environment, people miss deadlines all over the place.  Yet somehow we all expect our retailers who are at the very end of the supply chain to never miss a date.

    • bookless says:

      12:07am | 19/02/11

      I can no longer buy ebooks, due to the publishers greed. I live in a non-english speaking country and can not buy english ebooks from Australia, Canada, UK or USA - so I sit here alone in the dark with my unused credit card unable to read anything (real books are currently to cumbersome to lug around)

    • Dick says:

      09:28am | 21/02/11

      Rob the (former) bookseller: I am begining to see that you have no business sense. Why don’t you get it?? The consumer does not care if UK mail changes one day soon. If this happens the consumer will adapt and just look for some other affordable avenue - or not buy at all. To run a business, you need to compete effectively - to know when to get out or change. You could think of it as you being a predator: you have to change with your prey in order to keep catching them. If it looks non viable then get out quick. If you love books and sell them simply for the love of it, then you will be prepared to survive on a shoe strip budget (at least until the AUS$ drops).

    • Ryan says:

      05:08pm | 03/03/11

      @Rob the (former) bookseller: can you please point me to that information you have with regards to the UK government subsidising book depository postage, thanks.

    • grumpy old man says:

      07:48am | 18/02/11

      I recently bought three books from Amazon for $53 including delivery. I had tried the local book shops, but they didn’t have them in stock, they could order them for me, price, $150 . Price is certainly an issue, but so is availability.
      It was interesting listening to the news this morning. Some so called expert from the retail trade was trying to convince the interviewer that we should all be prepared to pay more for our books at mall retailers so they could stay in business!. So it seems that the basic market forces that retailers et al have been trying to convince us all were a good thing, are only a good thing if it works in favour of the seller. Once the market forces work in favour of the buyer, it seems that market forces should be put to one side.
      The real issue here is not that a chain of stores is closing down, nothing new here,  ( remember Gowings?) but that the impact of globalization is starting to filter down to the High St store, and they don’t like it.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      01:55pm | 18/02/11

      Not quite GOM.  I’m happy to go back into business provided you come and work for me for $7 per hour and my Sydney rent goes down to the same level as the internet guys have to pay.

      I’m guessing you also get upset when/if your wages and conditions are redeuced.  Perhaps we should globalise those and pay whatever the average in the world is paid for that job.  Even the US minimum wage of $7 per hour would seem like a luxury then.

      Or is it that the real facts are that it is *YOU* who cares about getting the benefits of globalisation whilst other people must accept the downside?

      Methinks you are a hypocrite…

    • ladybuglauren says:

      03:44pm | 18/02/11

      Rob,

      I have to say you’ve ruined this thread by adding what is essentially the SAME reply to every person’s response you don’t agree with.  You use to sell books, and then you lost money, and now you don’t.  WE GET IT.  The crux of your argument seems to be that it’s just not fair that other people in the world are allowed to sell them for cheaper than you, and that others are allowed to buy them for this discounted price.

      It’s called the free market, you compete or you get out.  Don’t like how it works? DON’T WORK IN RETAIL FFS.  Or you could just keep complaining about how the rest of us should all get paid less or whatever your ridiculously incongruent argument is supposed to be.

      I don’t work in retail.  I will never get a salary boom at xmas or see record profits when the economy is powering along.  Conversely, my salary won’t be impacted when we go through a recession and spending drops.  Do you see how that works Rob?  Then stop complaining because you don’t like how the retail sector operates!!

      Geeeeez.  I’m giving up reading this thread.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:29pm | 18/02/11

      @Ladybuglauren, logically my responses are similar throughout the trhead because what people post is similar.  But hey, I guess if you don’t want to distrub your view of the world then good for you.

      Somewhat ironically you’ve also missed the crux of my argument no matter how many posts I have made - I totally accept people elsewhere can sell books cheaper than I could and the logical conclusion was to shut the doors.  No argument there.

      But when you all want to blame the book industry and claim we’re all inefficient gougers whilst happily accepting your own Australian level of income I’m quite happy to point out the hypocrisy there.

      THAT was my point.  Hopefully you get it now.

    • Rachel says:

      11:03pm | 18/02/11

      Rob, you can harp on about this as much as you like, but the fact is that the world has changed and your business model doesn’t work any more.

      It’s inevitable that a small country like Australia will eventually have to make its way into the twenty first century and there are now ways around protectionism. You can blame wages, costs, whatever you like, but the fact is you need to adapt to survive. You don’t seem to want to, so you’ll get left behind.

      However much you argue and weep and wail, ultimately Amazon will come to Australia. You can only fight change for so long and the world of bookselling has changed.

      I for one am happy it has. Coming from the UK I am used to cheap books and being able to buy my children books constantly. They have hundreds and hundreds bought in the UK. It was a shock to move here and find that books are a luxury item.

      My children read less now they live here. Why should Australian children be disadvantaged in this way? Access to books is vital for young people- cheap books gives them more access. Bring on the internet booksellers.

    • Goldenfaber says:

      01:50am | 19/02/11

      Rob
      Consider us who buy books from overseas to be doing the work for nothing not for $7.00 an hour. Prices of many items in Australia include import costs such as handling and insurance and we have always accepted this but when we find that we can do the same thing at the press of a couple of buttons and save a fortune we would be silly not to.
      If a public servant gave the levels of service of many working in retail they would be reported to the local mp/media why do we have to put up with this?

      I am afraid that i have no loyalty to Australian retail - the sheer arrogance, laziness and unwillingness of so many people in retail to help the customer ruined any loyalty years ago. Reminds me of my local pub where the bar maid would always make out she could not see the empty glass of people she did not like - even though some of those people were my friends. Years of this sort of behaviour has seen some of my friends spend every holiday in Asia for their levels of service - retail managers/owners sending the country broke….

    • the penguin says:

      11:49am | 19/02/11

      Rob, lets see whos the hypocrite, i take it you support local business by exclusively buying your food and groceries from independent grocers and not big supermarket chains with lower prices? It is not the consumers problem to have to worry about paying your staffs wages, if you cant afford it then obviously your business model was not working. Dont start blaming the consumer for wanting value for money and refusing to pay double the cost for an Australian book when you can buy it from the uk at a decent price. the market s changing, you have to change with it and please change the record about the government postage subsidy in the Uk. why dont Australian booksellers group together and lobby our govermnent for a simliar model and maybe you could get a piece of the action instead of moaning about it.

    • Elphaba says:

      07:59am | 18/02/11

      I love QBD bookshop.  They have a huge clearance table and about once a month, I spend $25-30 on 5 books to keep me going.  And they’re good books too - an oversupply of crime/history/thriller books, which I love.

      For something specific, I scour eBay for a second hand copy.  I don’t mine how tatty it is, so long as none of the pages are missing.  The only time I set foot into Borders or Dymocks is if someone gies me a gift voucher.

      Re: eReaders and the death of books, plenty of music fans still buy CDs and vinyl, even though digital music is everywhere.  I think books will be the same - digital might eventually dominate, but it won’t mean the ‘death’ of physical books altogether.

      There’s something soulless about an eReader - I just can’t bring myself to buy one.

    • Shifter says:

      01:51pm | 18/02/11

      @Elphaba - “There’s something soulless about an eReader - I just can’t bring myself to buy one.”

      My thoughts exactly. But I’ve been looking around at my lack of shelf space and am starting to consider it. That, and I imagine it would be terribly useful on a long overseas sojourn, rather than attempting to transport a library with me.

      I love regular bookshops, the new book smells and the tactile feel of leafing through a prospective purpose. I like looking at all the other books displayed on the shelf and wondering if they would be a good read.

      Buying online tends to be hard for me, I tend to browse and then buy and I find it difficult to get the same experience on a website. That said, if there is a specific book I’m after, I imagine online would be the cheapest way to go.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:20pm | 18/02/11

      @Shifter, yes and yes, I totally agree.  That’s why I’m willing to look at an eReader but only if it’s under $100.  It would be perfect for a long haul plane flight - I take several things in my carry on bag and have room for only one book.  If I’ve already started the book, I might finish it before the plane trip is over, and then I don’t have anything new to read.  So for that reason, it would be useful.

      I’d still buy real books though.  I’m not afraid of being crushed by my book collection, I’ll still buy them, hehehe

      Most of the bookshops I enter are either the QBD for the cheap tables, or 2nd hand bookshops.  $35 for a standard paperback book is just outrageous.  It doesn’t matter if you buy online or not - the book still smells like yummy bookness when you open the packet. wink

    • Alex says:

      03:49pm | 18/02/11

      I was like you in that I loved my tangible books… have about 1000 on my shelf. But I bought a Kindle and have to say that I am reading more books (and I usually read a couple of books a week). I can take it everywhere and am yet to find the soulless quality to it… I still laugh and cry when reading. I recommend the Kindle (think its $139 for the wifi version) the quality of it is much better than some of the other e-readers.

    • Shifter says:

      05:58pm | 18/02/11

      @Elphaba - I think my housemates might care if they were crushed by my library.

      @Alex - I’ve been looking at the Kindle too. $139 seems an ok price for the best in business.

      I think part of the soul-sucking for me is the lack of colour cover art. Yes, I know the old saying but recently most of the good authors I’ve found have sucked me in with attractive cover art.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:09am | 19/02/11

      @Shifter, I buy my books at the QBD table based on the pretty covers.

      And the $4.99-7.99 price tag. wink

      I desperately need to get a new bookshelf though, the books are starting to get stacked on the floor, hehehehe

    • rod sexton says:

      08:04am | 18/02/11

      Welcome to the new century Shanahan.

    • Grumpy says:

      08:11am | 18/02/11

      I heard this story on the radio on my way in this morning, and a quote saying something like “...maybe now consumer can see what buying online can do to retailers…”...

      Why would people buy a book if they can borrow one from a library anyway. Theres movies, Video games, the internet with social websites etc etc….I dont see how books were ever going to compete unless they stock only harry potter.

    • petery says:

      08:14am | 18/02/11

      There is a lot of simplistic nonsense talked about   why books are cheaper or dearer in bookshops than on the net.

      . Book prices in australia are not fixed. Fixed pricing was abolished with much opposition from the book trade back in the seventies.Large booksellers,such as Dymocks fill the front of their shops with new titles at reduced prices.Chain stores such as K mart offer books at much reduced prices Apparently internet book buyers who assume you automatically get things cheaper over the net never patronise these places,or would not be seen dead reading THOSE sort of books. I would argue that some books such as these would be cheaper than the internet, after you have converted your currency into aussie dollars, and buying them any other way is not advantageous.

      You always pay more for specialist academic titles, as no book shop on earth is ever likely to stock these titles en masse unless specially requested. I am yet to be convinced that all these books are cheaper on the net. Of course, net book buyers consider themselves intelligent readers , who don’t buy the latest best selling trash at the front of book shopsor shop in chain stores, and obscure academic reading is all they want.

      Book shops have to employ staff, and not slave labour. Store fronts cost money for lighting and display, and this adds to the cost. I have often wondered why large book shops dont reduce the price of every single book in the shop, since they are not obliged to sell it at publisher’s recommended price. It can’t be greed just the fact that some books wont sell any faster no matter how much you reduce the price. You either need a book with a title such as Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying (to quote the monty python bookshop sketch) or you don’t.

      I would argue that normal laws of econmic supply and demand, if they actually exist at all, don’t apply to much of the book trade.Just as you should not judge books by the cover, you don’t buy them by the pound or the kilo.

    • Happy reader of trash says:

      09:39am | 18/02/11

      I just bought 10 of the new “best selling trash” novels across crime, sci fi and fantasy. Price in aus shops first $370. Decided to buy from Amazon. Total cost, including postage. $A 170. It’s not just specialist hard to find books, it’s all of them.

    • Zaf says:

      11:19am | 18/02/11

      No, even the best selling rubbish is usually about half the price.  At worst you save 25%.

    • Rachel says:

      10:33am | 19/02/11

      Petery, pretty much everything you say is wrong. Book prices are effectively fixed by the restrictions on parallel imports. Similarly, all these people buying from Amazon prove that the laws of supply and demand do apply. I for one order my books from overseas because of the pricing. If prices were cheaper here I would buy more books here. They aren’t so I don’t.

    • adie says:

      08:16am | 18/02/11

      I was given a Borders gift card for Christmas, and ended up using it online, as even their online prices are a lot cheaper than their stores!

      The books showed up the next day.

      I’ll be going to overseas online stores for my new releases from now on.  By the time my order gets here they probably wont be in our shops yet anyway.  For others, ive found K Mart and 2nd hand bookstores are the way to go.

    • Karen says:

      08:17am | 18/02/11

      The Six Sacred Stones by Matthew Reilly (Australian author for those who may not know) paperback edition online price at Angus and Robertson website $17.95.

      Online price at the Book Depository AUD $7.96.

      Need we say more?

    • Nigel says:

      10:04am | 18/02/11

      No we don;t

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      02:01pm | 18/02/11

      Or perhaps we do.

      1: Take out the Govt subsidy for postage.
      2: Figure out the cost of rent there vs Sydney
      3: Determine if you’re happy for a similar calculation to be done on your salary/wage and adjustmetns made to pay you in line with global prices
      4: Decide whether or not to admit yu are a hypocrite - it’s not a question of whether you are or aren’t, it’s very clear you are. It’s just whether you admit it or not.

    • Col the Pariah says:

      03:13pm | 18/02/11

      Rob, why impose those limits arbitrarily when they are not there?  WHat sort of world would you have people live in?  There is a new way to do commerce, maybe you should set up a book wharehouse that you agree is cheap and commence an internet distribution business…the problem you might then find is the protectionist policies of the Government that allows local publishers to fatten their profits will still make you uncompetitive…

      Not too many publishers going out of business yet eh?

    • Nat says:

      06:04pm | 18/02/11

      @ Col:

      You took the words right off my screen.  You are exactly right.

      @ Rob:

      The expense to rent a shopfront is, to be brutally honest, not my problem as a consumer.  That is part of the price of doing business.  There are cheaper shopfronts you could rent though there is the obvious drop in potential sales that would accompany a move like that.

      Or, as Col suggested, you could rent a warehouse and do an online shop yourself.  Unfortunately I suspect this won’t reduce the price you charge for the books.  Even with reduced overheads.  Both you and your suppliers would likely see to that.

      That you lost your livelyhood is sad.  I take no pleasure from hearing about people in your situation.  That said, that you expect that the bookbuying public should be guilted into buying expensive protentionist items to support an outdated business plan is so flawed I don’t know how to address it politely.

    • Paul C says:

      08:19am | 18/02/11

      All retailers have done this to themselves, not just bookstores. Take for example the screen protector on this htc desire I am writing this on. At jb hi-fi it would have been $19.95 for one. Off the internet, I got four for $5 - including delivery.

    • Paul C says:

      09:10am | 18/02/11

      These were from Sydney, by the way- Not overseas.  Obviously the product is imported by someone, even the ones in JB were imported - hence a level playing field.

    • Debs says:

      10:09am | 18/02/11

      Paul, it was the same thing for my screen protector for my iPhone4 - One screen protector in the Telstra shop / Dick Smiths / FoneZone was $30 ... an eBay seller on the Gold Coast posted me 10 protectors for $5 including postage.  I used to buy most of my books from Book City or Big W .. Amazon here I come!

    • lyndon says:

      08:22am | 18/02/11

      I often wonder though, whats causing the biggest impact, the shift in people buying online or the shift on media consumption habbits. How many people do you see on the bus reading things on their phones now as opposed to reading a book.

    • Shifter says:

      02:48pm | 18/02/11

      From personal experience? About 1 phone user per 10 book readers. I’m including eReader users in the phone users as well there.

      My train is dominated by book readers like me.

    • Tania McCartney says:

      08:25am | 18/02/11

      It’s not just international publications Borders wouldn’t stock. It’s local books, too.

      Our local store has consistently failed to stock books written by local authors despite several of them being all over the media and selling like hotcakes, bolstered by local promotion and rampant consumer demand (including receiving too many emails “can I buy your books in Borders” emails to count. Answer: “No”).

      So much for supporting Australian authors and illustrators and wanting to give them a ‘voice’.

    • Mike says:

      08:36am | 18/02/11

      You can rip off some of the people some of the time but you can’t rip off all of the people all of the time!

    • martinX says:

      12:50pm | 18/02/11

      You’ve never met the ATO.

    • Cam says:

      08:50am | 18/02/11

      There’s a reason that independent bookstore still exist in this country, it’s because the people who own the stores and the staff genuinely know and love their books. They can recommend you a book in a heartbeat and are more often than not, willing to giftwrap for free.

      With all the press about Zabriskie in Bondi going bust, the new owner’s been there for about a year. The store flourished under the care of the old owners for years.

    • AJ says:

      09:00am | 18/02/11

      I’m currently engaged in a love affair with bookdepository.co.uk. Barely a week goes by that I don’t log-on and find something I want to read for around a quarter of the price it would cost me to buy the same book from Borders (if they had it in stock).

      I recently looked at a book at Borders and they wanted $165.00! Sure, it was a big book, hardcover and had lots of pretty pictures, but it wasn’t worth $165.00! A few minutes spend on booko.com.au and then bookdepository.co.uk and the book was on its way to me for a fraction of the price.

      I will not be mourning the loss of Borders even if I did enjoy being able to go there every now and again and read the over-priced magazines for free.

    • Nihilist #1 says:

      09:02am | 18/02/11

      This exact scenario happened to me the other day.  Read a review of a book; went to my local Borders and Dymocks and was told by both stores it would not be released here until late July.  When it is released the shelf price will be $35.00.  Did exactly the same thing as you did Leo; came back to my computer, hopped on line and ordered it from Amazon for $18.00. 

      Based on past experience, it will be on my doorstep sometime next week.

    • Kyra says:

      11:13am | 18/02/11

      Exactly, I live in a regional & remote area. I ordered 2 books on Amazon for approx 50% off what i would pay here ($22 vs 12 & 15 vs 8) plus a tv series that isn’t shown here and it showed up in just over 2 weeks. By regional and remote I mean Alice Springs, Given that it takes me 1 week to get a letter from Brisbane (Regular vs Express post makes no difference here) I’m impressed, It arrived well in Advance of the estimated shipping time.

      I also have looked at bookdepository.co.uk, there is fishpond.com.au as well but I have found some issues with fishpond’s shipping on some items

    • Amy says:

      09:02am | 18/02/11

      I actually don’t mind paying retail for books - i like the instant gratification. But the last few times I have tried to find books I want at Borders (neither rare nor usual books mind you) they have not had them in stock. Maybe it is because half the store is now full of homewares?! I shouldn’t I recognised the stink of desperation then and there. Good riddance.

    • Nihilist #1 says:

      09:44am | 18/02/11

      Exactly.  when Borders first opened I would walk in there and come out with a list a mile long of books I wanted.  I recently received a Borders gift card for a birthday and couldn’t find anything I wanted in the store.  I ended up using the voucher online.

    • Chewy says:

      09:10am | 18/02/11

      This news will just re enforce the perception that Australians are getting ‘ripped off’.
      As someone who is in wholesale and has a very clear understanding of what the costs of goods are all the way down to the retail level I can assure that Australians are not getting ripped off anthing like they believe they are.
      Unfortunately in my industry retail jobs are already being lost as we move to a wholesale direct to consumer business model. Our competitors are also doing the same as there is now no room for a wholesale and retail margin. So many products we now run the ruler under are hamstrung by competition from larger markets that can afford to sell cost plus $1 mark up which you cant do in a small market like Australia. People also dont understand that goods are often sold by manufacturers cheaper and in some key markets which unfortunately australia is not regarded.
      Australia has some of the highest cost of wages ,super, commercial real estate, work cover and other benifits that all add to the costs of goods.
      Those that bemoan the high cost of retail goods fail to see they are actually part of the problem.
      Our ‘fair go’ society comes at a cost and we cant have our cake and eat it too. Because of this Australians are like a fat inflated pig in this new globalized market and we are going to getting slaughtered. The very least the government can do is scrap the GST on retail or enforce it on overseas online sales.
      Now who is first to put their hand up for a pay cut as we move into this brave new globalized world?

    • Ash says:

      10:57am | 18/02/11

      Fine, slap GST on all overseas online purchases but I’m fairly certain the GST doesn’t account for 50-70%. If retail outlets still aren’t competitive well then they’ve got to change tunes

    • Elphaba says:

      11:15am | 18/02/11

      @Ash, true, if a GST is added it will not increase the dollar amount of the products by much.  However, it might create enough of a headache for some online retailers that they’ll just stop shipping to Australia altogether.

    • Chewy says:

      11:29am | 18/02/11

      Ash I agree its only the least the government can do in all fairness. Market forces ...Next stop is to scrap super and bring down the minimum wage to five bucks after all thats how much Amazon would pay their packers. Ugly eh?
      Its doesnt make a better Australia but thats exactly what online purchasing from overseas is advocating.
      Online shopping heralded by some who work in unaffected industries as a win for consumers.

    • Aitch B says:

      09:10am | 18/02/11

      Crikey!!

      I have a Borders gift card that was given to me last year. Guess I’d better get in there quick just in case!!

    • Carz says:

      03:56pm | 18/02/11

      Check the latest news. You are going to have to spend twice the value of the gift card to be able to use the gift card.

    • Cat says:

      09:11am | 18/02/11

      I recently submitted a children’s book ms to an Australian publisher. Now I have been told I made a mistake in doing so. Apparently I should have sought publication through an international agent who could have landed the book with a larger, international publisher instead. 
      The reason? The Australian market is simply not big enough. Marketing tends to be parochial. There is limited space on booksellers’ shelves overseas and they are not going to stock an Australian without an international reputation or representation.
      Parallel import restrictions are actually making it more difficult to get something published here. The available money goes on producing Australian versions of some overseas titles instead.

    • Kika says:

      09:32am | 18/02/11

      I think it was inevitable that Borders would fail. Their arrogant business model was doomed. If you charge customers handsomely for your products and if they don’t have the product expect that they will wait 9 weeks for a book to be shipped in for 30% more than you could pay for the same book shipped in within 2. Absurd.

    • mary says:

      09:35am | 18/02/11

      We’re just in a change over phase where many local stores will go bust and virtual stores will thrive. Some of the local stores will morph into virtual and I can only see the consumer benefit. It’s not only book stores either; it’s an absolute disgrace that Australians end up paying sometimes nearly double or even more for their goods. Try to buy f.i. eucalypt oil (grown and processed in Australia) from an overseas store .. or Australian opals or ugg boots and realise how we’re being ripped off for buying in our own country.

      Yes, people will loose their jobs (that sucks but is inevitable) but new industries will emerge to fill those gaps. The quicker the better as far as I’m concerned.

    • Rob says:

      02:05pm | 18/02/11

      Good stuff Mary.  Just a quick question, this solution that you believe is “better”, does it affect you?  Or are you happy as long as the “better” solution only just affecst other people??

    • mary says:

      06:29pm | 18/02/11

      It will affect all of us Rob.

    • Bruce says:

      09:37am | 18/02/11

      The quicker all High school and University text books go web based the better. We are now the “Laptop” generation. The pricing for these texts are outragious, particularly when a newer version is released and insisted on by schools and universities. Publishers and bookshops have only themselves to blame.

    • Lee says:

      10:31am | 18/02/11

      but sometimes having them on the shelf is nice too.

    • Andes says:

      09:38am | 18/02/11

      Yeah they should focus on the overpriced books and forget the homewares crap. And by the way why is it 35.00?? Every book in Aust is overpriced.  Small wonder everyone is flocking to the internet to purchase the same product at 50% chepaer which includes delivery from OS.

    • Reg says:

      09:39am | 18/02/11

      No wonder Border’s are going broke. There is a branch near here that has a Gloria Jean’s Coffee Shop at the back and it is not exceptional to see patrons with five and seven books in a stack reading them free and then leaving the thumbed books on the floor or amongst the coffee stains. I suspect one particular couple of recording the page number of the novel and continuing the next time they return.

      I buy books locally and on the internet and I’ve even used the Amazon second-hand US references at times. Great for low prices and even better service.

      We also use a Kindle for her fiction pursuits but I have also noticed that the top line technical books on Kindle still cost near $100, in which case a hard copy is usually preferable.

    • Migraine says:

      09:40am | 18/02/11

      I buy books on-line but I also love browsing - and buying - in real bookshops. I used to love Borders bookshops, wherever I found them - and then in the first post-GFC reshuffle Borders Australia was snapped up by Angus & Robertsons, possibly the worst book retailers in Australia in terms of range, quality and service. Borders bookshops turned into A&R writ large, with Gloria Jeans. And they started to seem a lot less busy than they had been ...

      Of course, a book retailer going into receivership couldn’t possibly have anything to do with offering a terrible range and worse service. It must be the internet!

    • Colette says:

      09:49am | 18/02/11

      I haven’t bought a book from a physical book store in over 12 months.  Admittedly I did buy from Borders online a couple of times, but they were pretty cheap books and the delivery was free!  Since then, however, I’ve been purchasing books from Amazon.  Even when I pay for the (expensive) DHL courier as opposed to the usual USPS shipping, it still ends up being at least 20% cheaper than buying from Angus & Robertson/Dymocks down the road.  And I don’t even have to leave work/home to get my books!  It’s a win-win situation.

    • Marcus Aurelius says:

      06:58am | 22/02/11

      I well remember the glorious range of books in Borders pre A&R & the high level of patronage. It was similar with Bookworld (although more downmarket) before A&R emasculated it. The only exciting A&R bookstore here is their remaindered store where genuine bargains on rare/unusual books are to be had for $5

    • Art says:

      10:14am | 18/02/11

      All well and good for The Punch to have a crack at booksellers for expecting customers to pay more for something they can get cheaper elsewhere.

      But isn’t News Limited (owner of The Punch) planning to do the exact same thing by putting a paywall on its news sites, when we can get the same info for free from the ABC website?

      Sounds like News Limited may also be sealing its own fate.

    • Lola says:

      01:07pm | 18/02/11

      Ha! Interestingly. I would have assumed that they would have made their money from the advertising cluttering their websites and wouldn’t need to charge consumers from accessing their websites? What a joke. I will switch to ABC if that is true.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:52pm | 18/02/11

      @ Art: it is sealing its own fate—because whether they just imitate the trappings or not, the media barons still don’t understand their information is now a commodity.  And in a commodity market, the lowest price for that commodity always wins in the end.

      It *used* to be that News Limited etc. *were* a branded product, where you buy the product because of perceived value from where the product originates—e.g. thorough investigative journalism—but they gouged their advertisers more and more, and watered down their branded products more and more so that they turned it into a commodity.

      Then the Internet came along and turned superficial information into essentially a free commodity.  All news stories, at the current level of shallowness we tolerate for daily news, are superficial information.  Doesn’t matter if News Limited publishes a story anymore, a hundred other online and print journalists will be desperately printing and blogging the same thing.

      Eventually News will either figure this out or die like the rest of the print journalism (and big publishing) businesses.  Good riddance, I say.  They will be one of the few oligarchies in history that was ever overturned by a true free market, and deserve to go.

    • Turqs says:

      10:35am | 18/02/11

      Parallel between book shops crying poor and the ‘death of australian culture’ as their arguement for protectionism and the music industry’s rally against illegal downloading with the arguement that “without multimillion dollar profits we can’t support the stars of tomorrow”?

      Illegal downloading hasn’t killed the music industry, and while record company profits may be down, artists are now marketing directly to their fans and keeping a higher proportion of revenue for themselves*. The opportunity for the public to download cheap/free music has even helped some bands gain a following and get their break due to greater accessabilty of music to the masses. eg Posting tracks as a free download on their website, winning fans and a following, fans then go to concert/buy merchandise/buy entire album electronically or on CD. The stars of tomorrow are still appearing and the Australian music landscape is as (culturely) rich as ever.

      So following from that, would the collapse of Australian booksellers actually benefit Australian literature? Writers will still publish books, either through publishers here or overseas and the resulting drop in prices will mean greater accessibility of literature to people. Librarys will now be able to afford 30-50% more books and be able to stock more copies of a wider range of material. People who wouldn’t normally buy a book because of the price may now reconsider.

      The success of Penguin Books through the 1930s and beyond demonstrates the public interest in good quality, reasonably priced literature and that it is both popular and profitable. Inflated prices for books in Australia is the only way to sustain the industry? Give me a break.

      *I have no data whatsoever to back these claims up

      As an aside and without pointing out the ‘Language is a fluid, dynamic, evolving beast’ arguement, hit Ctrl F and type in “Store” then do the same for “Shop”. Tally your results. We have shops in Australia, they have stores in America. Those lamenting the death of Australian English brought about by the influence of American English, relax, it’s already here!

    • rl says:

      10:58am | 18/02/11

      This is the first of many. The video game market may be next.

    • winter says:

      05:48pm | 18/02/11

      yes please, $50 dollars from Steam or $100 at EB Games I think I know where I will buy from.

    • redrover says:

      10:58am | 18/02/11

      The thing that keeps me returning to a book shop is to be able to see the size of the font.
      I have ordered books from online and found the print to be so small you almost need a magnifying glass. It is very difficult to establish what the size is from the description of the book on the net
      More and more books are being printed with very small type, which takes the pleasure out of reading.

    • Jaci says:

      10:59am | 18/02/11

      I don’t buy many books from ebay anymore unless the postage is next to nothing.  Why would I when I can get a new book from The Bookdepository for less than a second hand one on ebay with no postage.

    • petery says:

      11:02am | 18/02/11

      To add   to my post above. 

      Like all busineeses book sellers have to make a profi t On small orders from publishers they have to pay exorbitant freight They have to pay charge extra to deliver to customers- They have to pay staff and overheads - however,they don’t rip people off like drug dealers as some suggest In many cases it is not economically viable to operate a stand alone book selling business without at leastn 35 percent mark up. It has been tried not impossible but difficult to sustain over long term

      Of course all online sellers need is a colourful website, and may not have any warehouses or stock, and no overheads,So naturally they do it cheaper. and they rely on their supposedly loyal clientele to window shop at book sellers first. Presumably when they have put all book shops out of business, they will need to adopt another marketing strategy that might be more costly.

      as i said before in my other post   many books are discounted here already-  just not the sort apparently that everyone says they want at any particular time. It is theretorically possible for any large bookseller   to reduce the price of every single book in the shop to compete with the internet. There is nothing legally to stop them except for the fact they presumably won’t make any money. This is why they don’t do it.

      It would seem that no one cares about paying for service,except getting it cheaply and quickly and everything free,including the purchase, if possible. Ok,you get what you pay for and deserve   Then you get cheap books like soap powder and corn flakes, which books obviously don’t resemble,but this does not matter apparently.to most people here.

      As soon as book stores go out of existence, i don’t imagine it will be very long before internet booksellers charge for delivery,because that is the way capitalism works,when compeition is eliminated. Or is free delivery world wide possible,because charges have been added to cost of the book before its advertised recommended retail price? In that case,it might still be cheaper but not free.

      Books historically have always been expensive in this country because most major publishers can’t sustain a viable market in Australia. Ending protectionism is unlikely to reduce prices on all books or give the consumer more choice,because the literate proportion of the population is limited in its numbers. The prices of best selling trash will be further reduced like it is already,but specialist and hard to find titles, will still be expensive, as it will require a book seller to offer ‘service’ for a customer or consumer to acquire them. Presemably, this service will then have to be free too.

    • Turqs says:

      11:43am | 18/02/11

      Petery, not to have a go mate but I’d be correct in saying you have a vested interest in the book retail industry?

      “It would seem that no one cares about paying for service”
      - People will happily pay for service, however, people rarely receive adequate customer service at the big chain bookshops.

      “i don’t imagine it will be very long before internet booksellers charge for delivery,because that is the way capitalism works,”
      - The internet is the ultimate capitalism tool. As you mention, with little to no overheads it makes it very easy to set up an online shop thus encouraging trade. If an online bookseller starts charging for delivery, watch while a competitor steps in and offers free delivery.

      “...when compeition is eliminated”
      - Are you seriously suggesting the internet kills competition and encourages monopolies?

    • petery says:

      02:03pm | 18/02/11

      @turqs.
      no i have no vested interest,but used to be involved in a family business and worked in it. As you point out,it would not be worth while if i was now. But so what if i did? Does that make my opinion less valid? it might even suggest i know just a little moreof what I am talking about than the average book consumer.

      i am not responsible for what service or lack of it the big booksellers provide,but that is merely one example of costs that a store front book seller has, that an online book seller does not. The thjngs that the majority of posts here acccuse book sellers of,,happen in much of the rest of the retail trade too.  Profits have to pay wages and super for staff.  who are comparatively well paid to many in the rest of the world. Is a worker for Amazon so well off or well paid?

      Free delivery is great, but obviously online companies are wearing the cost at the moment. Cost of delivering books to a hamlet on the Nullabor must be more expensive than delivering to Sydney, since everything else is. How long will it stay free?

      Yes, when online businesses have the monopoly i expect there will be higher prices and less competition,particularly if the small businesses are just fronts for big organisations like Amazon. Smaller businesses online won’t stand a chance against the big guys just as they do in reality now , apart from virtual reality.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      02:10pm | 18/02/11

      Turqs - free delivery is only available where the Government in question pays for it.  Nowhere else.  It will disappear once that subsidy disappears.

      And people love paying for service.  They love it so much they come in and my guys spend a couple of hours seraching for them to give them a quote then they happily take the ISBN or author’s name and go order it from Amazon after we’ve found exactly what it is they needed and done the work for them…

    • Turqs says:

      03:06pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob
      Didn’t realise the government is paying for delivery of private mail now. Which government, the one where the website originates or where delivery is being recieved? Last package I recieved from a UK online bookseller had Royal Mail stamps on it. Pretty sure the UK government isn’t into providing free stamps.
      But it sounds like you do provide excellent customer service, that does hurt when you are clearly providing this yet people still turn away when it comes time to pay.

      @petery
      I’m sorry but I just cant accept that monopolies will come about through online trading. Online trading removes the disadvantages that small businesses have such inferior location, high startup costs, etc. I’m sure there must be an example but I’m struggling to think a single industry when online retailing has resulted in less competition.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:37pm | 18/02/11

      @Turqs: Yep, the UK Govt pays for Royal Mail to deliver for BD because they set up in a “disadvantaged” area.

    • St. Michael says:

      09:48pm | 18/02/11

      @ Petery: one quote I wanted to take from your post:

      “Of course all online sellers need is a colourful website, and may not have any warehouses or stock, and no overheads,So naturally they do it cheaper. and they rely on their supposedly loyal clientele to window shop at book sellers first. Presumably when they have put all book shops out of business, they will need to adopt another marketing strategy that might be more costly.”

      The happy note I can add here is that once this has happened, the online sellers will go bust faster than their brick-and-mortar counterparts did.

      The reason for that is because authors of books will realise “Hey—I make more money selling direct to my readers online just by maintaining my own website and doing print on demand or small printing runs than I ever did with all the creative accounting my distributor and/or publishers ever did.”  (This is demonstrably true: John Reed did just this and found his income went up 257% after his distributors got rid of him.)

      Around the same time, some enterprising IT geek will think to himself “Hey—Google offers a nice search, but I can program a really neat little app that intelligently connects (via categorisation of books) readers direct with authors via the readers’ expressed interests.”  Again, the publishing industry knows this, fears it, and has been trying with all its might to avoid such a phenomenon.

      At that point, Amazon is toast, because Amazon is a middleman just as the brick and mortar bookstores were—and middlemen can’t compete against or even undercut the manufacturer of the goods forever, or even for long.

      People who hail Amazon should remember they don’t treat authors or distributors any better than the brick and mortar businesses did—it’s been said that Amazon will sell you a dollar bill for 90 cents just to get the sale.  That’s not a viable business model.  Some companies cut prices to wipe out smaller competitors, but Amazon, unlike Coles or Woolworths, is never going to have the monopoly it’s aiming for because they can’t control trade over the entire planet.  And several large retailers have already opted out of the Amazon giant because it stabs its suppliers in the back—look up its CEO Jeff Bezos in reference to Toys R Us.

      Hence its throat-cutting is only going to ultimately hurt its shareholders eventually.

      Anyway, at this point, with printing costs so low and authors’ profits per book now pretty much slave wage for time spent, the crossover point has been reached: all the wage, rent, stock, and bullshit-heavy industry known as “big publishing” will go down.

      We’ll look back about 40 years from now and shake our heads at idiots who went spruiking their books around to big publishers on the illogical assumption that you’re only “published” if someone else publishes your book.

    • Dig a little deeper says:

      11:05am | 18/02/11

      I also did what I thought was the “right thing” by ordering “A Colossal Failure of Common Sense: The Inside Story of the Collapse of Lehman Brothers” from my local Angus & Robertson store.  “It’ll be here in early January” they told me (I ordered in late December).  The book finally arrived in store over a month later, end January.  Never again will I order in store when I can get it from Amazon in a quarter of the time, for half the price.

    • jec says:

      11:14am | 18/02/11

      I go to Big W for books from a “real” shop and Book Depository for buying online.  If I want a novel to read once I go to Opp Shops or the library.  I will miss the Angus & Robertson clearance tables that they put out in shopping malls though.

    • Gio says:

      11:24am | 18/02/11

      Greedy publishers will be next to go. You can cut out the middle man and go straight to eBooks or iBooks yourself - retain most of the profits and have the world as your market. Happy writing…

    • JC says:

      11:25am | 18/02/11

      I went to my local bookstore 2 days ago to buy a travel guide (well known publisher, a guide to a common tourist destination). It was $40. I couldn’t justify that - not for a guide book. Checked out bookdepository.co.uk - $20 with delivery. Sorry Aussie bookstores.

      I really love spending time in bookshops, but these days it’s only to research what I want to buy online.

      I miss the UK - classics for about 2-3 quid each.

    • Bobster says:

      11:27am | 18/02/11

      Ditto, our record industry.

      It deserves to go bust too.

    • Turqs says:

      11:48am | 18/02/11

      Absolute parallel. Online music has been an boon to artists trying to get established.

    • Trev says:

      11:35am | 18/02/11

      Think how much better the world would be without this stock market thingy. It’s all about profit for share holders no matter what the business is. You’d think your customers would be the first priority but no.

    • Bobster says:

      01:48pm | 18/02/11

      These days even the shareholders get shafted by brainless CEO’s who see slicing dividends as an efficient method of raising capital.

      In a couple of decades we’ll all be looking back wondering how these dickheads were ever put in charge of anything, let alone the entire bloody economy.

    • Ed says:

      07:32am | 19/02/11

      So, Trev, you think shareholders, who risk their savings and hard-earned capital in whatever business you choose, deserve no profit? If that’s the case, you should go to work and insist on your employer reducing your compensation to zero. That’s your concept. Stupid!

    • stephen says:

      11:51am | 18/02/11

      It all comes down to price, even though everyone says they like the smell and decorum of the Bookshop.
      The decision recently, then, to not lift the import restrictions on books was a mistake, and the Booksellers made it.
      I want to ask this : I’ve been buying Library Of America titles for 10 years, mostly from Borders.
      I’ve been getting subscription e-mails from them for this long, offering titles from $25. Border’s same title was costed at $60.
      Why ?
      Well now, I asked them, (before they went down with the ship), and they had no answer, and now it seems I will never get one.

    • Michael says:

      11:53am | 18/02/11

      That this is happening to A&R is only fitting, in my view. I have actively boycotted them since their idiotic attempt, a couple of years ago, to try to force local small publishers to PAY THEM to stock their books on their shelves.
      I usually only go to the large bookshops now to turn in my annual Xmas gift vouchers from relatives. For everything else I go to specialty shops (for my SF/Fantasy feed) and online to get stuff that simply isn’t available locally.
      You should not go to an australian book chain retail web site (not naming names) and end up with prices online that are HIGHER than in your local branch. That’s a broken business model.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:44pm | 18/02/11

      Well said!

      It’s well known that book stores kiss their customers’ asses in the form of ordering from other stores, and “service” staff, but do unmentionable things to the asses of the authors and small publishers who have to do business through them.

      Fortunately the Internet is now a book store of infinite size which does not require a bored or ignorant 19 year old staff attendant to find your book for you or lie to you that it’s out of stock and that they can’t get it.  Authors are beginning to self-publish *and* self-distribute, and in increasing numbers.

    • MrV says:

      11:58am | 18/02/11

      Isn’t more of the story here to do with Australian private equity, REDGroup who levered up the balance sheet of these bookstores which made it all that more difficult for them to respond innovatively when consumer demand slides due to consumer restrain as they are all too busy servicing huge household debts?

    • Lee says:

      11:59am | 18/02/11

      Bookstores like Borders are good for finding books that interest you, taking a photo of them with you phone’s camera, going home, and ordering them online for half the price.

    • Chewy says:

      12:53pm | 18/02/11

      Buying online is one thing but this is different.
      So you approach you Aussie retailer with no intention of making a purchase use their stock, staff and premises kindly tell any friendly staff “just browsing” all at a cost to them(yes there is a cost to them) and purchese online off competitors who compared to the standards you enjoy exploit labour.
      Charming

    • Turqs says:

      02:12pm | 18/02/11

      Market based system Chewy my friend. If someone can offer an identical item for a lower cost, the market will reward them and punish those who can’t.

    • hermes says:

      08:36am | 21/02/11

      Yup, I do it all the time with shoes. Why should I pay $239 for a pair of Asics when I can buy them from Amazon for less than half of that. Prescription glasses and lenses are next, those are the biggest ripoffs on earth…there’s no conceivable reason why some pieces of metal and glass should cost nearly $1000.

    • Skye says:

      12:09pm | 18/02/11

      The books I buy online are at worst half the price they are here.  Normally I can buy 3 or 4 books for the same price I’d pay here.  I drop into a book shop now and then just to confirm the saving is still there.

    • Skip says:

      12:09pm | 18/02/11

      This also applies, probably to an even greater extent, to the video game industry. Australians have been conditioned to pay huge markups compared to our overseas counterparts. A new release at EB Games can retail for up to $119, when exactly the same game can be purchased for little more than $50 (shipping included) from overseas.

    • Kaz says:

      12:26pm | 18/02/11

      Its about to get a lot worse for book publishers.  The rising popularity of the Apple and Android tablets with e-readers has meant that there is a corresponding rise in the number of ebooks available to download through peer to peer torrent sites.  You can now get 1,000s of ebooks in one file download - want an entire library of health and fitness, shares and property, computing, novels etc - no problem.  So far piracy hasnt been a factor in book sales, but as the music, TV, and movie industries have found out, it doesnt take long before consumers get sick of being ripped off.

      And ebook lending sites are now popping up - so you can borrow ebooks off complete strangers around the world for no charge.

    • Dave-o says:

      12:28pm | 18/02/11

      I was really concerned about the fate of book shops. So I wanted to start a charity called “Bookshops without Borders” but I realized, that was a description of not only what is happening but also the cause of it.

    • Franq Spencer says:

      12:30pm | 18/02/11

      I have used http://www.betterworldbooks.com for the past 4 years. They not only send me cheaper new or 2nd hand books but also support literacy programmes in Africa

    • Heather says:

      12:43pm | 18/02/11

      I haven’t bought a retail book or CD/DVD for years. I started buying from
      Amazon and CDNow (now Amazon) at least a decade ago. I actually don’t mind paying a bit extra, say 10% to buy locally…but I detest having to wait months for stock because of the ridiculous parallel importing laws…and I am an author too, and I think it will eventually destroy the local publishing market. But why should I buy a book locally if it costs DOUBLE the price of Amazon, and I can’t get it NOW, or at least, within the week. I even buy shoes from Amazon now; you can get Asics etc for half price. Bookstores should realise that people are not prepared to wait 6 weeks or longer.

    • David says:

      12:44pm | 18/02/11

      Retail stores are a great place for browsing and picking things up in your own two hands. Once you find what you like, walk straight past the counter and go to the nearest Internet cafe to order the item online.
      If you got something extra for your money it might make sense to do business with the retail store. Unfortunately you don’t get knowledgable sales staff nor decent customer service these days. If you ask if something is stock you mostly get “Whatever is on the shelf” and if you’re lucky they might add “sir” at the end of that sentence.
      On the other hand I still buy one of my favourite magazines at the local newsagent even though I could save 40% by subscribing. The newsagent gives excellent customer service. He always saves me a copy and sometimes if I forget my wallet he’ll let me pay later.
      Customer service is worth a lot more than many retailers realise. Once they remember that, perhaps they’ll have a chance of saving their businesses.

    • marley says:

      01:52pm | 18/02/11

      Sometimes,  I do it the other way round.  Find the on-line price for a camera or an espresso machine or whatever, then go into the retail store and negotiate on that basis.  I don’t mind paying a bit more than internet prices (not 25%, though) if I can get the product locally.  And a lot of stores, especially white goods, will bargain.  Books, however, are hopeless.

    • Goldenfaber says:

      02:50am | 19/02/11

      Magazines are one thing i will keep buying at the retail level. My only attempt to buy a magazine subscription on line did not work out as either people were stealing the mag from my letter box or they were not providing them. Unbelievable hassles!!!!  Don’t buy a lot of mags though.

    • Jane says:

      12:50pm | 18/02/11

      I regularly attend book based conventions and have come across so many Australian authors who, despite having their books sell overseas fairly well, cant get into an Australia bookstore. This is one reason I think the “Australian voice” thing is bs. The other is most Australian authors have to self publish their first book and then go around these conventions to try and sell it.

      Publishers and book sellers supporting Australia..BS!

    • Tony Bee says:

      12:54pm | 18/02/11

      I think this is just the start of a seismic shift in the retail industry that will result in many well-known names falling by the way. The move to online sales is here to stay and retailers must adapt or die.

    • G says:

      01:19pm | 18/02/11

      They’ve had years to adapt and failed to do so… RIP idiots is my opinion because the Aussie consumer isn’t falling for the “Australian made” BS if it costs us more than 50% more.

      I have no sympathy for these tycoons (Harvey Norman, Myer, DJ’s etc.) who are struggling in this internet purchasing era, they have milked us dry for years on end and I hope this new trend forces these guys to be more competitive and cease colluding on prices.

    • fairsfair says:

      01:42pm | 18/02/11

      I Agree. They snoozed they losed.

      Come up with something new, we may all just come back. Until that time, online it is for me.

    • Michael says:

      01:09pm | 18/02/11

      I went to the Borders online site to order a book two weeks ago.  Their price including “free delivery” for the hardcover version was $62.  Amazon could deliver the same hardcover version, inc air mail, for AU$27.  Guess where my money went.  The kicker was that Amazon could offer the paperback version right now for $5 less than hardcover.  Borders claimed I could preorder the paperback version for delivery in December 2011.  I almost fell off my seat laughing when I saw that.  Who in their right mind would preorder a book 10 months in advance, when it’s already available at a lower price on another site?  Both examples were online, so the cost of rent and expensive retail staff does not count.  The GST or cheapskate Australians are not responsible for Borders/A&R’s demise in Australia.  It’s the protectionism, the incompetence of management, the debt load private equity firms put on their acquisitions, and the rocketing rents that must be paid for their retail branches.  All these problems are quite easily fixed if we have the desire to.

    • Marina says:

      01:10pm | 18/02/11

      I have bought from both online and instore. Another great website that I have just been introduced to is Booktopia. Australian based company and the delivery so far is outstanding.

    • clazberri says:

      01:27pm | 18/02/11

      I usually order books online unless I want to read them straight away.
      However, since my last visit to a bookshop I will now be ordering all my books online.

      During the Christmas holiday period I went into 2 bookshops at my local shopping centre and asked for “God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything” by Christopher Hitchens.  Neither shop had it in stock.  One shop offered to order it in for a ridiculous price and an even more ridiculous timeframe.  The attendant at other shop was horrified at my choice of book in light of it being Christmas and didn’t even bother hiding her disgust.

    • Charlotte says:

      01:46pm | 18/02/11

      Why don’t people just go online and reserve all the books/music they want at the local library, usually a couple of days later its waiting for you to pick up!

    • St. Michael says:

      02:25pm | 18/02/11

      Because my local library whines that they don’t have it or can’t get it, and are only connected to 3 or 4 similarly piddly libraries which also have uninterested staff who don’t, won’t, or can’t get it.

    • Dogbolter says:

      01:49pm | 18/02/11

      If only they did this with agricultural products (which really need protection from shitty crap imported from overseas) and not with the publishers. I buy all my books from an English company online, I pay on average 40 - 50% less, and they post it to me for free.

      I don’t feel guilty at all, and the only inconvenience is the wait of 2-3 weeks.

    • Sydney Girl says:

      02:02pm | 18/02/11

      Unfortunately Borders was also being used as a free baby-sitter for distracted parents.
      Mum’s and Dad’s sip their coffee over a number of hours at Gloria Jeans, reading free books and not buying, while there screaming children run amuk through the store making for a very unpleasant experience for paying customers.
      Another reason I stopped buying there.

    • monica mary roche says:

      02:03pm | 18/02/11

      Your comment
      back in the 1970s, Alvin Toffler in his materpiece the Third Wave predicted that the internet and computer communication would replace stores ,the shopping malls and the written word on hard copy.
      The Library and the book shop will be replaced by the internet.

    • Denise Dunn says:

      01:18pm | 19/02/11

      I don’t agree with that. My local library seems busier than ever. By a wide range of people of all ages, cultures and sex.

      I mainly buy art books these days - no way do I want to read them online. Yes they are expensive but they have rereadability.

      I still enjoy some bookshops like Mary Martin in Rundle Street, always cool books to discover in there.

    • Marilyn Riedy says:

      02:04pm | 18/02/11

      I used to buy a lot of books but now space restrictions and a limited income mean that I use the library instead. I also buy e-books for my Kindle and I have often bought particular books related to my craft and hobbies online because the price difference was just too much to ignore. Books in Australia are overpriced.

    • Imalleeringneck says:

      02:09pm | 18/02/11

      If the book is available here in Adelaide at a local book shop and there is not much difference in price I will buy the book locally.
      However most of the books I have bought new from overseas are not available in Australia.

    • aceman says:

      02:27pm | 18/02/11

      Borders going broke? Tried to purchase a magazine from their Chermside store couldn’t squeeze into the aisle due to all the fat slobs just sitting there having a free read. just sayin

    • Shane says:

      02:30pm | 18/02/11

      the only time i’ve bought a book locally in the past 3 years was because i got a gift voucher from a local retailer.. personally i wish they’d have just deposited $30 into my paypal account so i could have ordered something from a “certain UK book store that has free shipping” :-p…

    • Barry Brown says:

      02:30pm | 18/02/11

      nafe
      Check exchange rate today 16 pounds equals $24.80 aust with no delivery as against aust price of $35 plus delivery[at minimum of $10]Close to half price to buy and deliver an australian book in the uk against australian purchase.

    • Nathan says:

      02:32pm | 18/02/11

      Can someone explain to me the economics of how book depository can offer deep discounts and free shipping to Aust from the UK? Part of the answer could be that they a buying market share and losing money…but I think there’s more to it. I’m familiar with book wholesale margins and freight costs… it just does doesn’t add up - even allowing for huge volumes - air freight costs out of Aust are extraordinarily high compared to what it costs a US or UK business to air freight a package to Aust.  Aust Post also has a lot to answer for… I suggest Aust Post must be party to some sort of massive discount deal with UK royal mail which is passed on to Book depository…. when will Aust Post provide a similar reciprocal deal to Aust businesses so we can ship globally at the same rates?

    • Belinda says:

      02:34pm | 18/02/11

      The Co-op Bookshop is Australian and offers free courier delivery (not snail mail). And fast. I’ve received ordered books within 24-48 hours. If you become a member the price of books are cheaper. I’m not sure if they are cheaper than Amazon etc but I enjoy being able to shop online, find the book I want without having to go outside in this heat, and then the book arrives at work.

      I found Angus and Robertson to stock pulp fiction and other popular works in which I am not interested.  When Angus bought out Borders I was disappointed as Borders had a much wider selection of titles. Angus took over and scaled back the range. I stopped shopping there as did other people I know. Now Angus and Roberston has died and taken Borders down with it. Pretty easy to predict really. Crap product = minimal customers.

    • Samir Mokashi says:

      02:42pm | 18/02/11

      I read an entire book spread over Dymrocks Broadway, Borders Bondi Junction & Pitt St Mall and din’t buy the book. Borders BJ was great place to read crappy magazines for free. As for buying, Online it is.

    • TracyH says:

      02:47pm | 18/02/11

      I own a second hand bookshop and thought I’d share a good site: abebooks.com
      They have over 15000 second hand sellers listing their books:)
      In the meantime…can you all come to Pambula and buy some books from me so I can stay open for another year or two????
      Happy Reading!!~
      (and by the way…just because Erick has some pretty out there views on other subjects, doesn’t mean he should be picked on for every single thing he says!~equal rights for all book lovers!!)

    • Pete says:

      04:49pm | 18/02/11

      Tracy I think the demise of these two behemoths will be a great thing for your kind of business, particularly if you can provide a bit of personalised service. People will always love the feel of a real book and there’s a lovely bond between a friendly knowledgable bookseller and a customer that’s hard to beat in today’s commoditised world.

      To booksellers (ex or otherwise) whinging about labour costs, warehousing costs etc. in Australia: get some perspective. I don’t believe the obscene markup is due to your distribution costs, it’s due to the greed and/or inefficiency of the publishers marking up your wholesale prices. Australian labour etc. is expensive, for sure, but that doesn’t explain the extraordinary markup of Borders-style pricing. The nasty little rent-seeking of the publishers when they out-PR’d the government on parallel pricing has come back to bite them in a way I bet they didn’t believe!

      By the way, I have a little bookshop near me in Kew (Rob’s I think). It’s got a decent range, they gift wrap, and I get the sense the owner actually chooses what to stock (unbelievable isn’t it!), using his knowledge of his market. I enjoy going there and will always go there to buy gifts and even a few impulse buys for when ‘you need it now’. Those little businesses, in the right location and with a bit of service will do fine out of the collapse of Borders and A&R and good luck to them.

    • You Idiot's says:

      02:49pm | 18/02/11

      Books in Australia may be more expensive than overseas but if you lot keeping buying from the US & UK you’ll be destroying the Australian book industry! There will never be another great Aussie author like Bryce Courtenay, Matthew Riley or Di Morrisey. The australian publishing industry is small & doesn’t make the money you all seem to think, if they did then REDgroup wouldn’t of pulled the pin.

      It’s not dissimilar to the farming industry, if you don’t buy Australian made then eventually there wont be anything Australian. I believe our book industry & aspiring authors are worth protecting. I’ll pay a few bucks more to keep Australian people in jobs & publishers signing new Australian talent.

    • St. Michael says:

      03:28pm | 18/02/11

      If Matthew Riley (or, actually, Reilly) is classed as a “great” Australian author then the Australian book industry deserves to die.

      Compete.  The Internet blows the free market in books wide open for anyone now.  Endure, and in enduring, grow strong.  Colleen McCullough wrote “The Thorn Birds” to massive international success; she didn’t have to depend on a pissy Australian literati grant to make her book sell.

      Our so-called aspiring book authors, for the most part, are no different to our aspiring film makers: they only get a smell of cash so long as they spend more time airily contemplating thematic considerations of the Australian landscape than writing a good, cracking story that people across the world want to read.  This is why, almost without exception, Australian films and Australian-themed books suck and don’t sell.

      Self-publish.  Self-distribute.  Printing prices are low enough and the software advanced enough now to do it feasibly.  Matthew Reilly did this before he was “recognised”, if you can call it that, by a “big” publisher.

    • marley says:

      03:31pm | 18/02/11

      Yes, books in Australia are much more expensive than overseas.  How exactly does the fact that the local bookstore charges 40% more than the internet bookstore for a novel written by an American or a Canadian or a Brit help Australian culture?

      Sure, it keeps the publishers in business, it keeps the bookstore in business, and that may give writers an outlet they wouldn’t have had in a more competitive international market -  but maybe a better business model for said publishers and bookstores would do the same.  And maybe better product by the writers would do the same as well.

      As it is, I feel that I’m paying a huge mark-up on books to subsidize mediocre local businesses and writers.  And I resent it.

    • Mork says:

      05:26pm | 18/02/11

      You idiot’s - HAHAHAHAHA

    • Ed says:

      08:35pm | 19/02/11

      Sorry You Idiot, but it’s a global market now, and only the best retailers will, and deserve, to survive (where-ever they are in the world). Great Australian authors will make it regardless, such as the very good example of Colleen McCullough already mentioned.

      I don’t particularly enjoy being robbed and I’m glad I have such excellent choice now, online. I recently purchased a Kindle DX and after downloading a few books that I had wanted, and after waiting only 60 seconds for them to arrive (at much reduced prices), I can tell you I’m not going back to any other book seller here in Australia unless they can improve their competitive offering (the books were American anyway, so who needs protecting here?) Protectionism saves unsustainable business models/industries from the “evil” that is competition, but frankly, I don’t want to pay for someone else’s lifestyle thanks. Perhaps all these defunct booksellers can obtain a job in an industry that can sustain itself instead. Just a thought ....

    • Bob says:

      02:54pm | 18/02/11

      Sections of the arts and culture industry still think protectionism works and that the fruits of their labour are somehow of higher worth than the toil of others. The parallel imports argument is a case in point.  However the future of Australian literary culture is in the hands of Australian authors and publishers themselves not in the perpetuation of a sheltered workshop for english lit and creative writing graduates. The message is to write and publish books that large numbers of readers want to buy/read and all your problems are over. Protectionism is an admission of failure by the arts industry. Anyone with half a brain will buy the book of their choice from the cheaper retailer.

    • Jestep says:

      02:56pm | 18/02/11

      I can stand the piteously whining of ‘former booksellers’ and members of the Australian Chardonnay literati.  Blabbering about lost jobs and some mythical local book manufacturing industry is pure Middle class whining.  Yes, I’d love to purchase more books from my local book shop, but there’s just no way I’m paying up to twice the cost for the same product.  I’m sure jobs will be lost when boutique book shops and the bland giants inevitably close, but, that will simply be the price of progress.  And no, I wouldn’t like it if it was my job that was lost. Sad as it is, someone’s gain is someone else’s loss; I’ll go with a cheaper product any day so I can spend more on other better local products.

    • shari says:

      03:28pm | 18/02/11

      I agree, years ago a local printing company started losing orders as they couldn’t compete using aussie paper (competitors brought in Indonesian), cartons were purchased from a company that was later suggested to be price fixing and now the business is all but closed.
      Banks sending their support/IT overseas as it’s cheaper, dairy farmers under duress as the big chains undercut their prices.
      We all love the cheap prices until it affects our employment personally.

      Why don’t people either adapt (get into the online selling) or re-train?

      It’s not like you wouldn’t see it coming if you’‘ve got a grip on your finances.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      09:01pm | 18/02/11

      At least you’re honest and that’s all I am asking for.  There’s no whining here, just someone standing up to the crowd saying “hey, take a look in the mirror and tell me you REALLY believe in free market economics” rather than just being a hypocrite and demanding efficiency from others that doesn’t apply to yourself.

      Jestep is the first honest member of the “free market” crowd that abounds when it suits them.  All the best to you, may your honesty remain forever.

    • Goldenfaber says:

      03:05am | 19/02/11

      Rob I hope you do not mow your own lawn and send the local lawn mowing businesses broke. I hope you do not cook your own meals and send the local pub/restaurant broke. And don’t ever replace a washer in a tap buddy…or you will end up working for $7.00 an hour!!!!!
      Have you ever thought about the rather obvious fact that money saved on one item/service can be spent on another item/service keeping competitive Aussie businesses thriving?

    • ComeOn says:

      03:06pm | 18/02/11

      Good riddance to them. I’m pleased to see an industry hell-bent on making unreasonable profits fail because of their arrogant, mean-spirited, protectionist policies. As far as Rob the Former Bookseller goes, your attitude is exactly why people are embracing global opportunities. We can’t all expect to make enough money doing menial unskilled jobs to be able to afford a McMansion. You’re just not worth that much. I think most people would be happy to pay a nominal premium for the convenience of almost immediate access to a book, but you and your industry have gone too far, and now you’re paying for it.

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      09:47pm | 18/02/11

      Fair enough ComeOn, as long as you accep the smae logic when your job goes.

    • Brett Moore says:

      03:08pm | 18/02/11

      I spent some time reading above and see the arguments. Competition it seems is now on a global scale for sales, but the costs behind those sales are not competitive. To make them so, Aussie workers would have to take a $15 p/h wage hit. Stores would need to relocate to country warehouses and the government would have to subsidise postage in a bid to encourage online businesses like in the UK. This is happening not just in the world of the book, but just about anywhere you can find that item online. Amazon and even Ebay stores are killing the traditional store. For the consumer, it is all about money because lets face it, money is tight and every cent counts. As it stands this scenerio cant survive because the retail industry as a whole will collapse. Can we afford to have that industry collapse and if not, how can you stop it when people buy over the internet with no possible way to stop it ? Big government add campaigns might work to increase store purchases but then they also might work to educate the as yet uneducated to internet buying and make it worse.
      Id say the day of the store is nearing it’s end. Its a natural progression of our technology.

    • bookwormsgotNOTHINGonme says:

      03:10pm | 18/02/11

      I am a book addict. I love to read, the thrill of finding a new book makes me happy. I have a preference for shopping in bookstores, for the instant gratification, but also for the staff. I have a favorite store, where the staff will suggest new authors they have tried themselves. They even put away a new release by my favorite - without having to be asked.IThey also source books, esp hard to find or out of print. I will pay the extra in the store for that kind of service.

    • gb says:

      03:26pm | 18/02/11

      So, how does one use an electronic version of a book as a coffee-table book? How does one read to a child from a nice big colourful book? How do we use atlases and other reference books where most of the content is large detailed images? How do I flip through the book before I buy to see how much detail is there? One chapter tells me nothing. How do we…....

      Electronic books are great, but they are not a substitute for the real thing in all areas. Until they do cover all these issues, not by reducing our wants to meet their goals, but by providing all the above functionality, and then some, physical books and book-stores should not disappear.

    • Way of the World says:

      03:44pm | 18/02/11

      I think that there are horses for courses ... I have a Kindle for travelling and buy hardcovers for thir beauty.  I have found “Fishpond” (http://www.fishpond.com.au) local, quick, well priced and able to source obscure titles and authors.

    • Tony says:

      11:40am | 21/02/11

      Actually Fishpond are not local. They are in NZ. They get away with it because they don’t have to pay GST plus Australia Post has an office in Auckland and they insert their mail there. So Australia is funding that deal but Booktopia http://www.booktopia.com.au is pretty much the same price or cheaper in Australia so there are local Australian options that pay tax, employee Australians and are competitive.

    • Jonathan says:

      03:38pm | 18/02/11

      purchased some photography books using some overseas websites as locally the books costed $90+ I ended up paying around AU$40 with free delivery to my door! (Imported, shipped, delivered..etc..etc..) How is it possible are they really making that much profit (it’s crazy!)

      I work in the IT industry and for us to make close to 10% profit we’re doing well!

    • Not Impressed says:

      03:52pm | 18/02/11

      Peel the price label of the back of your 25 to $30 book you bought in Australia and see how exactly the same book is $7.50 is the US and Canada.  Wonder why they usually choose precisely that spot to put their inflated price sticker?  I also have a Kindle, and buy books online, having become tired of paying 4 times the proper price to buy locally.

    • Ben says:

      04:06pm | 18/02/11

      Absolutely no sympathy for Borders and A&R. The few times I have been into their stores I am stunned with how expensive books are. Why are there no JB Hifi-style discount book-sellers? JB thrives against full-price compeditors like Harvey Norman.

      If something is half-price online then why wouldnt you buy it? The retailers cannot blame their customers for being smarter and faster, especially in this electronic and economic climate!

      Borders and A&R have been too lazy to try and compete with online sales and haven’t moved as quickly as their customers have. They deserve to fail if they cannot compete in the market in which they choose to. Its simple business.

      Surely to save Borders and A&R they could rebrand as a discount model, remove the instore signings, cafes, fancy displays, elderly staff and focus on high-volume, low-profit retail to compete with Dymocks, online etc.

    • braunman says:

      12:14pm | 22/02/11

      You know that’s a good point. JB Hi-Fi is a good example of how Australian retail can do well if they charge below average market prices and offer a large range of products. Before they were around I pirated all my music and movies simply due to the price and the fact that many australian retaliers simply wouldn’t stock what I wanted. Nowadays I spend on average about 10 a week at their stores. If it’s good enough to stop me pirating music then it’s got to be a good business model.

    • Livescheaply says:

      04:26pm | 18/02/11

      I am very very late unfortunately, but why didn’t Rob the Former Bookseller start grey importing from Book Depository? Even with a 35% markup as suggested by another contributor, you would have been cheaper than A&R and Borders any day!

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      08:57pm | 18/02/11

      Sometimes we did.  Crazy as that is there were times we made up a decent sized Amazon order for customers and shelf stock.  Disheartening to have to do it but we fought for survival with every trick we could think of.  We even managed to get a few publishers to sell direct to us from overseas.  Simply put, we didn’t have the scale to make it worth their while and we couldn’t even cover staff wages as a result i.e. not because I believe wages are too high but because we simply didn’t make enough sales and profit.

      So we closed.

    • Scott says:

      04:51pm | 18/02/11

      Its funny, we all want the better price, but in our own jobs and industries - do we practice what we preach?  Two of the main drivers behind the prices in Australia is the cost of labour and rent.  No one wants to earn $2/hour like some people do in the places we buy from OS, but we still want the prices offered by those countries populated by people that have no choice but to work for such a wage.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for this, but it will mean that someone goes without a job, and as more industries face this challenge - more and more of us will be searching the want adds.

    • marley says:

      08:29pm | 18/02/11

      Sorry, but having bought books in Canada at substantially less than they cost here, I’m not going to buy the $2/hour argument.  Yes, the minimum wage is doubtless lower there - and so it should be for an entry level job done by school students.  But the standard of living is as good, mainly because people aren’t having to pay over the mark for things like books.

    • Tony says:

      04:55pm | 18/02/11

      To all those kindle buyers. If you look after them books last significantly longer than kindles. If you look after them you can still have them 120 years from now.
      I have a number of history books that are very old. Also old books in good nick become very good investments. I bought a dilapidated old book for $40 get a friend to rebind it. That same book has now appreciated much more than i paid for it. Paper lasts many times longer than electronics. By the way that $40 book in good nick is worth at least a couple of hundred dollars at Amazon

    • Goldenfaber says:

      03:09am | 19/02/11

      Ever heard of silver fish? My book cupboard now smells of insect repellent and old books can smell musty….

    • Rob says:

      04:59pm | 18/02/11

      I want to ask, “Rob the former bookseller” if the customer service in his shop in any way resembled his behaviour in this thread? ie: If you found a customer who disagreed with you, would you follow them around your store, repeatedly barking your opinions at them in the hope that they would suddenly change their minds? If so, I think I just found why your business went under, champ smile

    • Rob the former bookseller says:

      06:41pm | 18/02/11

      @Rob: I want to ask you a question, is your behaviour in real life the same as your behaviour online?

    • Rob says:

      02:24am | 20/02/11

      Yes, Rob, if you were standing in front of me now, I’d ask you exactly the same questions and make exactly the same comments. So if you’re really that curious, yes, you could say my behaviour in real life is *definitely* the same as online. And I get the feeling yours might be, too. Which returns us, in a rather nice segue, to your business going broke…

    • Clint says:

      01:16pm | 20/02/11

      lol….

      Ladies and gents…. Bernard Black.

      Seriously though. I work for my money so of course I am entitled to spend it however I damn well want. Australian jobs, culture or no.

      I’m a proud Australian and respect Australian authors. But at the end of the day, if they can’t compete, don’t expect me to foot the bill.

      Australian publishers have been behind in accessibility of books, timeliness of release, inferiority of product (Australian vs other versions of the same products on collector’s releases) at a higher cost.

      The responsibility for making the publishers competitive lies with the booksellers -  The consumer is reactive.

    • Blackadder says:

      05:06pm | 18/02/11

      In my youth I’d buy a handful of books every month…at $10 each I could afford them. Now, on a tight budget, with priorities such as mortgage and family, I simply can’t afford new release books at $30-$40 each…and no longer do I have the room to store an ever-increasing book collection.

      Now, however, I simply utilise the library. With 15 hours a week commuting, I generally go through 2-3 books a week. The library supports that with a never-ending supply.

      I did buy two new release books from A&R before Christmas, but considering they were marked down from $33 to $9 each, I’ll buy them for that. Personally, I don’t believe any fiction, over-sized, soft-cover novel is worth $30-$40…

    • Brett says:

      05:12pm | 18/02/11

      On comments above: Technology is taking over and for better or for worse (the Tree’s say better), Kindle’s and iPad type readers are well over due. In ten years time, nothing will come on paper - Discounting a 2012 solar flare knocking us back to the stone age that is. Teach your kids to use interactive ebooks and to value paper as a scarce resource not a birthright.

    • Ponker Magoo says:

      05:25pm | 18/02/11

      I usually buy my Uni texts and leisure reading from a UK site (free delivery) however I bought a couple of books for Christmas this year as last minute gifts and the price difference between physical retailers was even unbelievable. I bought them from A&R without checking the prices and was shocked when I got home to see that BOTH were being sold at more than $5 above the RRP on the back of the book. I happened across the same books in BIG W and saw that I could save almost $30 on the combined price for the exact same titles. Needless to say I returned them to A&R and bought the BIG W copies. I’m sure they would have been even cheaper online had I had the time to order them.

    • ?? says:

      05:35pm | 18/02/11

      still buy locally. i like good service, which i get EVERYtime i go to my local bookshop. as for price, i’m doing very well and dont care to penny pinch on small things

    • Bob the current IT worker says:

      05:56pm | 18/02/11

      Question for Rob the former bookseller: Why do you expect us to be charities simply because you can’t compete? Yes, people will become unemployed, times change, employment opportunities change, deal with it. This is the way it’s been for since the industrial revolution and has been a source of improvement for us all.

      Incidentally, I’m another IT worker who competes quite handily with India.

      Also: If you can’t beat them, why not join them? Why not open up a warehouse in the middle of nowhere and pay teenagers straight out of high school to pack up and post off books based on online orders? Just at least try to pretend to compete with overseas prices or offer express delivery. As an IT professional, I’m quite sick of seeing Australia get charged double for things for no good reason and I don’t see why I should lie down for it. (For example, compare any Australian online game retailer with any American online game retailer. This includes electronic delivery platforms such as Steam) This is not something that’s isolated to books and it’s not something that we should have to put up with.

    • Rob says:

      08:49pm | 18/02/11

      Another who misses the point.  I am in no way asking for charity, the decision was made and the shop closed.  So be it, the market has spoken.

      What I object to is being called greedy/ripoff merchant etc. by those who choose to take their (deserved) Australian earnings and then justify a decision to spend in non Australian environments on the “hey, it’s cheaper so you local retailer ripoff merchants should get cheaper because I am SO about efficiency” argument.  If it’s about cheaper then look forward to teh day your boss outsoruces you and don’t ask for redundancy pay or whatever, that would be hypocrisy.  Or if you’re about the efficiency of the free market so be it, expose yourself to it and see how you go.

      Be very careful what you wish for.  If low prices are it then how long before the majority of jobs are outsoruced?  Heck, you can even outsource PA’s to the Phillipines these days for about $50 a week and a cheap IP phone connection.

      Beware Australia, you may be next on the list.

    • Bob says:

      11:03pm | 18/02/11

      Rob: Actually, by asking people to pay twice the amount for no extra benefit, yes you are. Maybe not for yourself, but for your former industry.

      And what I object to is the greedy ripoff merchants (and they’re not just booksellers, they’re everywhere, online or offline) who say “Hey. Australians are suckers who’ll pay twice the amount anyone else will. Lets overcharge them!” We all know this didn’t start because Australians are that much more expensive to employ, etc. This started because the Australian dollar was worth about half of what the US dollar was worth up until 2001 at which point the dollar rose, but prices of imported goods didn’t drop to match this.

      http://www.forecasts.org/data/data/EXUSAL.htm

      This (actually smaller than is made out) shift to online buying only occurred because we’ve only just realised that there’s an outside world, and in this outside world, people are getting charged half of what we are.

      Before you tell me what you would do in our situation, please have a look at where the clothes you wear are made. Then go and have a look at where the electronics you use are made. Then go into your kitchen and tell us where your kitchen utensils are made. Then look at the sheets on your bed and tell us where they are made. And I could go on in that vein all night. You’re no better than anyone you’re railing against. You simply believe you got shafted in one particular area and have decided to ignore everything else.

      I bet your car runs on petrol, and not Australian gas.

      Hypocrite.

      Now, let’s proceed a bit further: This copy of Fortune’s Favourites by Colleen McCullough (brilliant Australian author for those who haven’t heard of her) that I have in front of me and purchased from a Sunshine coast book store is printed in the UK. Now that’s not very Australia friendly, is it? And that’s a book store doing this. Not me as the consumer.

      Also, again, I’m an IT worker. I am well aware of outsourcing and its risks. Hell, I’m on the bleeding edge of outsourcing. I, like all IT workers, am one of the people that designs, builds and maintains systems that make outsourcing possible. Hell, I AM outsourced (All of my clients are international. Every single cent I earn comes from overseas.) I am employed because while I won’t offer cheaper, I offer better.

      There’s a question for you as well: If you make international calls, do you use Skype at three cents a minute? Or do you pay Telstra $2 a minute for a pretty much identical service?

      Once again, don’t try and pretend you’re better than a single person you’re railing against. You’re not.

    • Flossie says:

      06:05pm | 18/02/11

      I tried to buy a CD from a local bookshop/cd supplier at what I considered a heafty price and was told it would take 2-3 weeks to source. 6 weeks later I asked about the CD - they had lost my order - 6 weeks after that I again asked about my CD - sorry can’t source it.  For the first time I went to Amazon on line - CD delivered 8 days later at 1/4 of the price!!! Why would I go back to that store?

    • Angry Bookseller says:

      06:30pm | 18/02/11

      with everyone buying online..the fate of the Australian bookshop is dead.
      therefore no Australian Authors or Australian books.
      Building books, cooking books etc will be American and useless here (cause they use different metric systems).
      You dug your grave…..now live in it.

    • kia says:

      07:04am | 19/02/11

      Meh.  Colour me apathetic.  I talk to a lot of family and friends about books, TV, movies etc and I know only a couple of people who actually like Australian content.  It’s really not that good.

    • marley says:

      12:46pm | 19/02/11

      Good writers will get published.  Mediocre ones won’t.  Works for me. 

      And, as MichaelIA pointed out above, it won’t be long before authors market their wares directly to the public on-line rather than via a publisher.  The good ones will enjoy the entire income, not a cut, and the bad ones will get no income at all and look for another career choice. 

      And by the way, just so you know, countries other than America produce building books, cooking books etc.  You can always buy a British or a Canadian book if you don’t want to deal with inches and ounces.

    • Ed says:

      08:53pm | 19/02/11

      It all comes down to the quality of the author, not whether he/she is Australian. Good quality authors will find their mark. Perhaps the uncompetitive nature of the Australian book industry, and the high prices that go with it, tells us something. That is, it doesn’t deserve to exist in the first place. Perhaps we, as Australians, should consider investing our scare resources in to those industries where we have a competitive advantage via-a-vis the rest of the world. I don’t think book publishing makes us world beaters.

    • Madlaina says:

      07:47pm | 18/02/11

      I love bookstores. I love reading physical books. However, I read a lot of foreign language books and buy them for my kids, as I want them to speak my native language (German). I tried buying/ordering them through bookstores. Several were unable to get them for me, despite me giving them the title, author’s name, publisher and ISBN number. One (independent bokseller) tried to order the book for me from Amazon, then marked it up by 50%. (I saw her looking it up, politely declined and checked the price at home). After that experience I gave up. So you see, Rob, I tried to do the right thing. I now mostly buy online for price, ease and convenience. Even if I wanted to, with 3 young kids in tow browsing through a bookstore is impossible.

    • snoop says:

      08:05pm | 18/02/11

      Good grief
      When was Amazon founded 96?
      These Bricks and mortar retailers have been on notice for nearly 20years
      Now we have old anachronisms like Carr talking Job losses.
      Any intelligent directors would have seen this coming.
      we cant protect for the sake of jobs we need to work smarter.
      Coffee shops free bagels whatever wont save this .

    • Bert says:

      08:16pm | 18/02/11

      Judging by the number of comments citing “Boarders” I can only thank my lucky stars that I don’t have to serve you at a book store. Where real people work, real people appreciate literature, and real people don’t speak on their mobile phones

    • Gary Simmonds says:

      08:18pm | 18/02/11

      I love good bookshops to browse in and buy from but I have no sympathy for Borders. As mentioned in many previous comments, they are consistently over-priced by a insane margin. Just try peeling back a price sticker on any of their books and see how much extra above the RRP they are charging. Even more marked is how much more expensive they are than many internet book-sellers. How is it that we can order the same book from a famous UK-based on-line book-seller at anything up to 40% cheaper - and that includes the postage! Bring on the open market I say.

    • Brad says:

      08:20pm | 18/02/11

      Tony, paper may last many years longer than electronics, but thank god I don’t ever have to pack up 1000 novels the next time I move house!  I also used to think that there would never be a substitute to paper, but after using a reader for a couple of hours and seeing all the other benefits I realised that opinion was VERY wrong. Besides, with a good backup strategy which everyone should have for their burgeoning digital photo collection,a few hundred ebooks is nothing. As for the other git who said no power = no ebooks, Mate… besides the fact my reader does a couple of thousand pages (and therefore several weeks) on a charge, I have a solar usb charger. You. Fail.

    • AL says:

      08:43pm | 18/02/11

      spare a thought for the poor unlucky customers who received vouchers over Christmas. They can only be redeemed if the sucker customer purchases the equivalent amount of another purchase equivalent to the voucher to be able to use the voucher…work that out for creative accounting…...another great rip off…and some clown reckons Angus and Robertson will trade themselves out of trouble….pull the other one morons…it plays yankee doodle!

    • Dumbfounded says:

      08:44pm | 18/02/11

      I run a website dedicated to a popular book series by an American author.  Over 90 percent of my community is made up of visitors from the US.

      A new book in this series is released each May.  In order to post about it on the site and thereby keep my content current for US readers - and participate in and moderate discussion about it on my forum - I need to read the book in May.  I need my hands on this thing as SOON as it is released in the US.

      Alas, the latest book is never available in Australian book stores for about month after the US release date.  We are living in the dark ages here.

      I am left with no option but to preorder the book on Amazon US and pay for express international shipping to ensure I receive it a few days after release.  The unfunny thing about this scenario is that I pay around $40 for the book using this method, yet if I buy from a store here I not only wait a full month longer but I pay about $10 more.

      I have also been known to use a proxy to download the book via a US supplier on release day - because I can’t legitimately get my hands on it electronically when the rest of the world does, either.  By the time I can my site visitors would be on about their third reading.

      The irony is that I would be *more* than happy to pay extra to get the ebook on release day without all the cloak and daggers.

      It’s a complete no brainer.  The publishing industry needs to wake up and realise that they are completing in a global market or else just slink off into a corner and die.

    • susan says:

      09:13pm | 18/02/11

      i use that uk book supplier with free postage and why not ?$35 here; $13 there.and SERVICE that forgotten part of the retail experience everywhere nowadays.
      also living in regional oz with only an exceedingly miserable A&R, with mostly disinterested, ignorant staff ,why would i bother.
      HOWEVER i will not go near amazon due to their disgraceful stance over wikileaks

    • thebill970 says:

      09:32pm | 18/02/11

      It is funny that when the ‘free market’ works FOR big business but AGAINST consumer…well…that’s okay and everything is right with the world.  But when the ‘free market’ occasionally works FOR the consumer and AGAINST big business…well…we can’t have that now can we!!!  While I’m sorry for the job losses (I am out of work myself at present), I have little pity for big businesses in this situation.  Welcome to the global economy.  Do you get in now Gerry Harvey??

    • kasper says:

      09:53pm | 18/02/11

      do people chase the absolute lowest price? some, but certainly not all. if the prices were even within earshot of what we can get overseas, i suspect many would continue to buy local.

      would parallel imports allow this? consider CDs. prior to parallel imports, we were forced to pay $20-25+ per CD. now, all these years of inflation later, i can get new release for under $20. JB Hifi certainly arent crying poor.

      perhaps if the booksellers actually stood up for their own business’s interests instead of the publisher’s….

    • Sharon says:

      10:01pm | 18/02/11

      You want to know a great joke?  My parents live back in the US and know of my gripes about book prices here, so my dad offered to let me use up his gift card for the US Borders website to get my daughter books two and three of the Mortal Instruments series.  I got both books for $13 with free shipping to my dad’s address and just checked Aus Borders website.  Both books cost $19.95 EACH.

    • Russell says:

      10:11pm | 18/02/11

      I run a niche online Australian bookselling business. We stock books on hunting, shooting and firearms. Mainstream shops are too scared to stock such politically incorrect material, and gun shops can’t be bothered. Unlike most booksellers, none of our books are parallel-published in Australia, so that’s a non-issue for us. Nor are many of our overseas titles distributed locally—mostly we import them direct.

      Here’s my take on the matter.

      1) Consumers are very quick to take up overseas online purchasing across the board, because in some areas they find very large savings. Limited purchasing power combined with anticompetitive exclusive distribution rights mean that local prices on some items are double the price they sell for overseas, or more. Retailers are behind the eight-ball as local wholesale prices often exceed overseas retail prices. Retailers have every right to blame local distributors for anticompetitive, price-gouging practices that have caused them to be uncompetitive with online, offshore sales.  Incidentally, I don’t think this applies so much to books. To take some of my own interests, have a look at cameras, binoculars, rifle scopes and running shoes. All suffer 50-100% gouging by local exclusive distributors and most enthusiasts purchase online after tyre-kicking locally. (Btw Gerry Harvey, 10% GST/duty is peanuts compared to this.)

      2) Consumers operate under the misconception that a high exchange rate favours individual importation over commercial importation. When the dollar rises, importers also experience gains which they pass on to consumers—at least, they do if they wish to be competitive. I certainly do with my business, with very minimal time lag, whether the dollar goes up or down.

      In summary, the high dollar and ease of personal importation need not be an obstacle to local businesses. They only have themselves (or their suppliers) to blame. If the importers would stop the constant gouging and also display responsiveness to exchange rate fluctuations, they would win back public trust. Antitrust regulation concerning distrubution might be a way to force this to happen sooner rather than later, and rescue the Australian retail industry.

      I can’t see that happening. In future I think local shops will be converted to pay-per-minute showrooms, where customers get advice and make their choices before buying online from overseas.  We’re already half way there… only, the shops aren’t getting any money out of the freeloading tyre kickers.

    • Dick says:

      10:02am | 21/02/11

      Great points Russell, but perhaps the funniest part of your message is the order “binoculars, rifle scopes and running shoes.” Are you serious about the running shoes? hahaha.

    • Rod Rye says:

      10:13pm | 18/02/11

      The last gasp from publishers and booksellers. People can now self publish and buy online. I feel sorry for booksellers who have in essence been the only business that was really a ‘victim’ of Internet sales, but that was only because of greedy publishers. People may bemoan the loss of particular retailers, but there is clearly no point in keeping a useless business alive, particularly when it’s clear that such a task is impossible though protectionism anyway.

    • petery says:

      10:15pm | 18/02/11

      Although I have had more than my say here already , i would just make one or two last points.

      Book shops are constantly accused here of being greedy profiteers and rip off merchants,often by people who have had no experience of how the retail trade works anywhere. There is just one problem logically with that simplistic statement, that is,if they are so rich and therefore successful,  why are they now going out of business,The internet competition should have put them out of business ten years ago at least. Is it possible to make lots of money, and fail to make a profit at the same time? Maybe an organisation like Booksellers without Borders might give a rational answer to that question.

      sadly too no one here appears to give a stuff about copyright or author’s rights just as long as they can get what they want instantly for next to nothing.We should be able to rip books off just like the way we do now with copyright music and movies,  seems to be the popular attitude of the majority of posts here. Spoilt children have a similar attitude..

      .I predict the democratic nature of the internet may mean that the days of the rich mega best selling author are numbered, and that may not be bad. However, given that any semi literate cretin can now publish on the internet, the number of third rate badly written works of fiction/non fiction. will also likely increase. Hopefully, since profit is a dirty word for so many readers here ,they won’t make any money.

    • marley says:

      11:54am | 19/02/11

      I don’t quite understand your point about copyright.  A book bought in the US or an e-book still carries copyright, and the buyer still pays for it as part of the purchase price.  No one is talking about ripping off authors that I can see.

    • petery says:

      07:07pm | 20/02/11

      @marley. No one is talking about ripping off authors,of course they are!.
      As some one on another post points out an author’s royalties are often tied to retail price o fthe book. If the book ends up in remaindered book shops, author does not get much. i am not an expert on this and it is surely more complicated, but that as I understood it in the past was the way it worked. Copy right might be slightly different issue but no one has even considered the ethics of that here. Maybe such ethics don’t exist.

      Don’t know how online publishers treat authors, but one suspects ethical behaviour is not the first consideration of anyone there doing business with authors. If you buy a book super cheap, you may in fact be robbing your favourite author in some cases , but so what,its just business and you demand your right as a consumer   to get a great deal.  I have probably done it myself on occasions when it suited me, we all have, but some here boast about doing it as part of their daily lives.

      I know of one or two people who have huge collections of tapes and DVDS on which not a cent has been paid to their composers or their so called favourite musicians.Presumably they might be talented but have no right to get rich on it.

      The point I was making originally was that the majority of posters here seem to demand the absolute right to do the same thing to authors, and would rip off as much stuff off the web for free as they could, for sake of getting it cheap and in their hands in thirty seconds. They might change their standards if they became authors themselves, but then would probably naively expect their so called fans to treat them differently.

      In the brave new world of non profit online publishing and bookselling in the future,  many things might be done differently but hypocrisy among the mass of consumers will continue to exist.

    • Gordon says:

      10:26pm | 18/02/11

      A lot of the comments here are contrasting a high-street shop-front with prices from a cheap Internet-based warehouse operation… so we’re not really comparing apples with apples.

      There are obviously a number of factors at play here which have contributed to this failure, as others have pointed out:

      1. They have floor space in large malls or on the high street. $$$s.
      2. They employ Australian staff at Australian rates. $$$s
      3. They live with the impact of the parallel import restrictions. $$$s
      4. AUD is currently high and USD/GBP low in comparison.
      5. Stock levels in many stores are often abysmally bad
      6. Books are often released late into the Australian market
      7. The advent of ebooks

      In summary, it really is no surprise that these large chains are struggling. Everything is against them, and they don’t have a diffirentiator to put them back into the game. Tech savvy buyers aren’t even looking in their stores any more, instead going straight to the Internet.

      I love bookstores, and whilst I’m happy to pay a small premium for the service, relationship and convenience, I am NOT prepared to pay almost 5 times the price ($76AUD vs $16USD) for the luxury of waiting 3 weeks for a book which had been out for some time in the US finally to be released in Australia (hardback edition of “The Greatest Show on Earth”). International shipping took just 4 days.

      If it was simply Internet vs Retail, you’d think we’d have a decent Aussie internet retailer around. I’ve tried a few with poor to mediocre results - by far the worst had to be Fishpond (actually, they’re Kiwi). The utter incompetence and appallingly bad customer service from them has to be experienced to be believed, though I don’t recommend it unless your desk is in dire need of some new dents in the shape of your forehead.

      I wish I knew what the answer was for book store owners in Australia. The simple fact is, it may not be a viable business proposition any more… but I don’t. Maybe start a courier company to deliver the parcels. :(

    • steele says:

      11:52pm | 18/02/11

      I use the internet to buy books simply because you cant find books that on certain subjects that you may not have known existed.
      im interested in the troubles in Northern Ireland, type in troubles Northern Ireland into Amazon and whamo, there are heaps of books with lots of customer reviews.
      The publishing industry in terms of retail outlets are simply following the in the same footsteps as the CD industry, and the rent a video industry is not far behind…

    • Fred G says:

      11:57pm | 18/02/11

      I run a library in a large secondary school. We have been buying the bulk of our book online from the US for the last couple of years to make our dollars stretch further. Many other schools I have spoken to are now doing the same.

    • Annabel says:

      04:44am | 19/02/11

      Rob, you obviously feels strongly about this but, what I don’t understand is why you blame market forces for what appears to be poor business choices on your part. Picking market trends is an implicit part of successful retailing and the shift to online shopping and global marketing has been very obvious for well over a decade now.

    • Stephen says:

      05:09am | 19/02/11

      Could not have said it better. Personally for the past 4 years I almost exclusively shop online unless the item is needed urgently (now), perishable or too bulky / heavy for cost effective freight.

      The quality is always better online, the items have not been bounced around store shelves and handled by too many people to mention. Deliveries are fast and relatively cheap. (I have had items sent from Chicago that arrive within 48 hours of order - I can’t even get that service locally)

      This is the beginning of the e-tail revolution. We are now at an inflection point where online shopping is become more trusted and available. We are seeing the old guard retailers and supply channels start to buckle under the weight of changing consumer perception and sentiment.

      Feel sorry for individuals who may lose their job over this in the short term but there are plenty of other jobs out their smile

    • Aaron says:

      06:51am | 19/02/11

      Regular bookshop? Rarely, second hand book shops and online the way to go.  Especially if you are looking for a book that hasn’t been printed for 20 years.

    • Blackadder says:

      08:59am | 21/02/11

      Interestingly, Adam, I have an original print of William Craig’s excellent Enemy at the Gates. Given it was 2nd-hand when I purchased, and read many times, it’s condition was deteriorating. I couldn’t find a new version anywhere on-line, given it was long out of print (30 years or more). Lo-and-behold, whilst perusing books in a little out of the way bookshop in East Richmond in Melbourne, I came across a brand new copy of this book…needless to say it was purchased immediately. I’m still shocked at how and where I found it, given how far and wide I’d looked (even Amazon didn’t have it at the time).

    • kia says:

      07:07am | 19/02/11

      Agree.  For all the doom and gloom predicted by retail store owners, unemployment is actually reallly low in Australia!  Not to mention I’ve experienced the same great service from UK and US sellers - I’ve had something I purchased from the Blizzard Store arrive on my doorstep just over 24 hours after despatch from California.  Amazing.  Australians have a lot to learn from our overseas friends.

    • RM says:

      07:39am | 19/02/11

      Just imagine, if an Australian bookstore could buy their stock from overseas at the same sort of prices all of us individual consumers can, and with shipping that would surely be cheaper… (per book - surely if they are buying eg 500 copies they can get a better rate)
      They could put maybe a $5 premium on each copy and everybody would be happy

    • Redwards says:

      07:48am | 19/02/11

      Whilst I can understand the immense frustration of consumers towards the Borders/Angus&Robertson; gift card situation, I would like to remind people to consider how they go about expressing their frustration in these stores.
      My teenage sister works at A&R, and came home in tears yesterday- not only had she been told that she was possibly going to lose her job, but she endured several vicious verbal attacks from members of the general public, and another staff member at her store sustained a physical one- someone actually threw a book at him.
      I know this is frustrating and disappointing for many people, but please- get it together! The young staff members should not be the target of your abuse- they know their bosses have stuffed up and many of them will lose their jobs- you are not achieving anything by berating them. Ring the complaint hotline of this company and direct your frustrations where they should be directed- not at young casual workers.

    • Tony says:

      09:29am | 19/02/11

      Same goes for school texts. Booksellers here have had it cosy for a very long time and it doesn’t surprise me that KRudd made the wrong call on this too.

    • Liz says:

      09:37am | 19/02/11

      The problem is also that if you’re price conscious you will always go and order a book online. It’s almost always cheaper. I was after a collectors edition of a graphic novel a while ago and the local bookstore would charge me $130 per edition PLUS 4 weeks to order it in. I contacted the American publisher and got it for $75 including shipping. It was here a week later. Now, that’s a big enough price difference if you’re after 4 volumes of said novel to make you RUN online.

      Or like the movie I really wanted to buy. I had read the books and loved them. Three books had been turned into two movies. For the international release, they had cut the two movies into one. Living in Australia, I was unable to source or locate the movie online, even overseas. I had to ask a friend of mine in Sweden to obtain me a copy of the original length one. It’s in Swedish (partly) but has English subtitles all the way. So I’m happy. But I would have been unable to obtain it in Australia and I was not satisfied with the severely butchered international release version, which, on the sideline, would have cost me $20 more than the two original movies combined shipped from Europe.

      I feel for those people losing their jobs but, yes, their bosses stuffed up and the public voted with their feet.

    • Anthony Sherratt says:

      09:39am | 19/02/11

      As a long-time book lover I have been mixing local and internet purchases for the past decade. It started off being driven by availability but the difference in price became a larger and larger factor.

      Then much to my surprise I found that reading on my ipad (or kindle) was actually great and the price reduction became HUGE. Far too big to ignore.

      Part of me still prefers the physical feel of a book but for plane travel (where books take up a lot of weight) and sheer price (we’re talking up to 75% cheaper than actual books) I’m moving towards the electronic version.

    • RJK says:

      10:47am | 19/02/11

      Australians pay not only too much but way too much for just about everything, including books.

      Online shopping is not the way of the future, it is the way of the past and the dinosaur retail industry in this country, for the most part, have simply failed to keep up.  So in any competitve business environment their will be casualties so blame management for inept strategies.

      You would think with the lack of retail service in Australia they would at least get something right.

    • seniorcynic says:

      12:01pm | 19/02/11

      I started reading classic out of copyright ebooks from gutenberg from necessity as my eyesight was too poor to read paper books. Thanks to discount optometrists I can now read what I like but still go back to the ebooks as I can obtain them when I like.

    • Susie says:

      12:12pm | 19/02/11

      If all you bibliophiles do so much reading, as you claim, then why are there so many spelling errors in your posts?

    • Jacob says:

      10:00pm | 19/02/11

      Really? Spelling errors was your only concern?

    • Sydney Girl says:

      08:21am | 20/02/11

      Reading dosen’t require that a person can spell - two different things

    • Greg says:

      01:15pm | 19/02/11

      You cannot place wholesale blame on retailers for the high cost of goods in Australia. A fair chunk of the blame must go on the distributors who are selling to retail at the same price you are buying online for. Add the high cost of real estate, logistics and labour and you are starting to get the picture.

      Australia is the middle man capital of the world and it can’t go on forever…..

    • Travel Reader says:

      01:29pm | 19/02/11

      I work in the travel industry - the spearhead of the “buy it online cheaper” brigade. Everyone rushed to “do it themselves” with gushing endorsements of their so called savings. Ha, what a laugh we had as long as we could keep those doors open, Rob. The prices they were paying, the routes they were taking, the MISTAKES they were making were breathtaking. This week I had a woman do all the work on the internet for a planned honeymoon and told me, condescendingly,  I could have the business if I could match the price. MATCH IT, I was able to save her hundreds of dollars on precisely the same trip and with no teeny weeny fine print involved. Obviously books are different but I do believe the tide is turning and we all have to watch and wait ... watch and wait

    • Emma says:

      12:33pm | 20/02/11

      I hope you realise you are being just as condescending as your client.

      I just planned my own 1 month, self drive euro trip and my travel agent best friend went through it and told me I that there is not one thing she would change. I do admit there were a few times I did ask for her help, but it was the same advice that I found on travel forums so I didnt *need it from her. People can and do plan their own holidays with success. Yeah I might have saved a few $ going through her, but this way I get exactly what I want and I have complete control (something that I find very comforting as I am a teeny bit of a conrol freak)

    • Kim says:

      01:46pm | 19/02/11

      Good riddance to bad rubbish.

      A few weeks ago, I went to buy ‘The Sun Also Rises’ by Ernest Hemingway in Adelaide.

      Borders charged a whopping $25 for a small mass-market paperback. You know the kind; cardboard cover, glue binding, paper that’s one grade up from newspaper. Written on the back was the UK RRP: £7.99.

      Dymocks didn’t have a single Hemingway book in stock. Not one. Incredible!

      I frankly don’t care what the reasons are. Any company that provides goods at these prices simply doesn’t deserve to exist. If nothing replaces these stores and Australians buy all books from overseas, that’s fine with me. Australians are then able to spend the money that we save on something else.

      The money that I otherwise would have given to an inefficient book sector, I can now give to a tiler to re-tile my laundry, or a roof-seal company to restore my roof. Lots of things in my house need work, and if things were cheaper in this country, I’d have more money to spend getting that work done, which directly provides local jobs.

      As it is, a dollar spent propping up inefficient industries is a dollar that I can’t spend elsewhere.

    • jf says:

      02:30pm | 19/02/11

      The left never seem to baffle me.

      In the one breath they are able to scream blue murder about competition and high prices and in the next, protectionism and all without even an ironic wink.

    • Mumtothree says:

      03:12pm | 19/02/11

      The reason Angus and Robertson went broke is simple - they charge far too much for their books, and its got nothing to do with online competition.  You can go to Angus & Robertson and find a book for say $69 - go to Kmart in the same shopping centre and its $47 - or go to Big W also in the same Shopping Centre as A&R and its $39 - now I ask you, where are you going to buy the book?  Damn sure its not A&R.  Its the same with cheaper books, a $20 book in A&R is only $6 in Kmart.

    • Bookseller says:

      05:57pm | 20/02/11

      places like KMART can charge cheaper prices because they buy in bulk and ship to all their 10000 stores…so they get a 80% discount on buying their books, places like Dymocks (which are franchises and privately owned, don’t get such high discounts) so if Kmart buys the latest Bryce Courtney they pay 60c per book where as a bookstore would pay $10.00.

    • David says:

      05:51pm | 21/02/11

      @Bookseller
      As someone who has worked in publishing, what you have said about pricing is complete rubbish. Publishers sell to Kmart and Dymocks at the same discount. Kmart are able to sell at considerably lower prices because they are able to make up their money in other goods (TVS, Fishing rods, clothes etc). Dymocks are not able to do this as all they only sell books.
      Where did you get your information from? No publisher in Australia is selling books to Kmart at 60c!

    • rob says:

      03:26pm | 19/02/11

      I hate shopping in australia. Houses cost too much, cars cost too much, clothes, books, you name it.

      I work in the IT industry, and after doing an mba, I cant tell you I have absolutely no sympathy for the industry as it is today.

      Throughout history there have been shocks to various industries, whether you call these shocks the industrial revolution, the technology revolution, or some other flavour. Think of the humble typing pool, and what happened to all those employees when the photocopier came along.

      Australia, and most first world countries have moved to tertiary industries (finance, banking) to generate their wealth. And while IT people compete with India for jobs, I suspect we will lose that battle eventually as well. Did you know that Inda has more HONOURS students than Australia has university students in TOTAL?

      I have serious reservations about Australias ongoing viability. The BRIC economies (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) are behind, in some sense of the word, but they are closing at tremendous pace.

      These industries (Bookstores) are living so far in the past, its a miracle they are still in business (not dissimilar to the old video shops). Diversify, or perish - it has ever been so.

    • abs says:

      03:43pm | 19/02/11

      thanks to this article and publicity in the media, i have rediscovered online book purchases - just bought 5 books online for 75 bucks!!  I’ve compared the prices in the stores and i’m saving 75 bucks on this!! LOL lovin it!!! (and to those complaining of spelling and grammar mistakes - probably old farts and uppity types who need to go back to their knitting or champagne sipping or whatever you fools do - people read for different reasons, not just to improve spelling - losers!!)

    • Blackadder says:

      09:30am | 21/02/11

      Not really. Spelling mistakes just make you out to be illiterate and un-educated…therefore your contribution to the post is not taken seriously. Often when people see a post with horrendous “sms spelling”, riddled with “lols”, slang and the like, the first thing they think is “what a clown”. The point you are trying to convey then becomes lost. Read your post. My first thought was that it was written by a “bubbled-headed, ditzy blonde”, with the corresponding image coming to mind. In that sense, whatever you wrote becomes irrelevant, due to the image of yourself that you’ve conveyed to everyone. You post is more at home with the level of intelligence found on Facebook, not one discussing the publishing industry.

    • Em says:

      03:49pm | 19/02/11

      We just turned up to borders and my 11 yr old son went to use his gift voucher given to him from the P&C for academic acheivment and told he can only use it if he spent the equal value in cash. He is now an Unsecured Creditor and lucky he even got that - its a goodwill gesture they say. So how do they get out of this mess, by ripping of their loyal cutomers. You can’t tell me they don’t have enough stock to honour these vouchers!! Very angry at my son being used to pay administrators bill. “no wonder your going out of business” I say…“well we are actually one of the profitable stores” says the borders employee…......then why can’t you honor the gift card!!!!!

    • Lyn says:

      05:01pm | 19/02/11

      Angus and Robertson - $122 - Amazon - $9.95 - Wait time for A & R to get the book in - 6 weeks, Amazon - posted and received from overseas in 7 days.  I rest my case.

    • ExEmployee says:

      05:06pm | 19/02/11

      Whilst the internet and the laws are partly to blame, this company has for a long being arrogant and way to money driven. Overstocked, ignoring the smaller publishers and buying more from the bigger ones to gain in growth rebates.

      Summed up well here:

      http://blogs.smh.com.au/entertainment/archives/undercover/014948.html

      Used to work with this guy at A&R, can tell you now is he as he sounds in his letter.

    • juliet says:

      09:30pm | 19/02/11

      wow, tower books are a great publishing company.  Great titles.  I’m concerned about the franchise owners in all this.  Lovely people some of them.  I hope they can debadge and and maybe find a foothold in this industry. ...

    • Kevan Townsend says:

      05:45pm | 19/02/11

      My son wanted a hardcover of Matthew Reilly’s Five Greatest Warrirors - went into the local Angus & Robertson store they wanted $54.50 for it !!! Even the shop assistant was a bit surprised how costly it was. So I went home and ordered from a UK mail order site cost $23 inc postage.
      I don’t blame the shop more the publishers and the exorbitant rent the shopping centre charges them

    • DragonLass says:

      05:53pm | 19/02/11

      I’ve worked in retail for all my 20 odd years of working life so far, in a variety of roles, and it’s part of my life to look at retailers around me.  Even down here in Hobart, which has the worst state retail economy in Aus, I see plenty of examples of retailers who are succeeding.  They do so by offering something unique, or excellent service, or both. 
      Retail stores that try to sell only mass market products are doomed to failure, because they just cannot compete on price, whether this be from overseas competitors, or the likes of Big W et al.

      I’m sick of hearing “but wages are so high compared to the US!’.  That’s not the reason for failure AT ALL.  Rent

    • Beck says:

      06:04pm | 19/02/11

      Spot on! Very nice article.

    • Bookworm says:

      06:13pm | 19/02/11

      I will never buy another book in a bookstore as I have an Amazon Kindle and love it. The books are inexpensive, delivered to my Kindle in seconds and dont take up space in my house. Not to mention saving trees. The cost of books here and the wait to have a book from my favourite American authors is just too much.

    • Rich says:

      09:09pm | 19/02/11

      I hope that this forces rental managers to lower their rental fees. Empty shops are the best way of bringing down the worst rental fees in the Western world. Companies like Westfield should take note. Likewise, Australian distributors take note, the market is now global and you no longer have your monopolitstic market position of which you have enjoyed for so long. We won’t support your rip off pricing

    • Biafra says:

      09:56pm | 19/02/11

      This is the joy of free trade which the governments brought in and then a strong dollar. A few years back, when the dollar wasn’t worth as much compared to the US dollar or UK’s pound, buying something overseas could make it almost be equal to what we pay here.

      But now, a lot of people see what we can save and think if the big companies can save more money, why can’t I ? Why should X company make more money while I get the same product ?

      For me, i wanted to buy a Terry Pratchet book when it came out recently. I waited for it to come out here to find that the hardcover (only one available at the time) was going to cost me $49.95. I balked because I could buy enough food for that to last all week (spag bol, garlic bread and salad incase you want to know wink ) So of course I went online and found I could get the book from amazon for around $24 inc shipping…. so you can guess where I went.

      The problem is, everyone’s cost’s are going up, not just retailers. I have my own bills including rent, power, food, transport, and its not like my pay keeps going up by a lot to justify spending enough money to be almost my food bill when I can save money.

      Yes, 20-30 years ago, buying something oversea’s was for something rare you couldn’t get here normally, but now we are a global economy because the big companies complained and cried to governments to reduce or remove import tarriffs/charges etc. 

      I like to go into a store and buy something, cause I can get it right then and there, but its about customer service as well. I stood in Harvey Norman’s section of fridges once for around 20mins, wanting to buy a fridge. Not one salesperson came up and asked me anything. I walked out after that and ordered one online. May have taken an extra day or 2 to get there but I got what I wanted. Yes if I want save money, I would use the net, if I need help or want to ask questions, I would speak to someone in a shop. But if there is no one there willing to help you, then you’ve lost business.  And yes I have used the same HN before and got great service in the TV dept and bought a 50” tv on the spot. It came down he thoguht I was a nerd so I would buy a tv, not a fridge maybe ??

      To book companies/stores, out of that $50 i could have paid you, how much of it is yours? Why aren’t the head offices making big purchases from the dealers and storing them in their warehouse so you can sell them cheap? Don’t blame the consumer for an neverending wave of price gouging now because someone can do it better & they flock to them. Would you buy a car for $50’000 compared to the same car made in the same place for $30’000 ?

      To those who cry “wait till your job goes oversea’s !!” well guess what, lots of jobs have gone overseas not because the consumer wants cheaper prices, but because shareholders and CEO’s want more bonuses. IT is a perfect example, internet providers try their best to keep costs down so of course they outsource to whereever. If you’re paying $30 a month now for your net, would you be willing to pay $150 for the same plan only because the staff are in Australia?

      Welcome to the global economy, its either swim or sink now, we’re not on a secluded little island anymore.

    • Fu says:

      04:30am | 20/02/11

      So you completely didn’t read the article? You ask questions that are clearly answered in the article. The article mentions that the main problem for the book retailers is that they cannot “parallel import” so they cannot buy cheaply from overseas’s publishers and are forced to buy the same book from Australian publishers at higher costs. When you buy off the internet, you are “parellel importing” which is not illegal for you to do, but would be for the retailer to do. In terms of the white goods example, why didn’t you just do what all the sane normal people do when they want assistance,,, that is go up to a sales assistant and say “Hi, can you help me?”. The fact that you stood somewhere for 20 minuits and didn’t stop anyone to ask for help when you wanted help is not normal behaviour.

    • James says:

      12:10am | 20/02/11

      To: Rob the former bookseller

      Book Depository also has a US branch that offers free international postage so the UK government free postage policy cannot be said to apply there.

      Also as I understand it, Book Depository does not have much of a warehouse at all, they source their books through various distributors depending price, availability and location.  So the book you buy through Book Depository may not even come from the UK.

    • Tony says:

      11:36am | 21/02/11

      They still ship it out of the UK even though it is a dot com address.

    • hate Australia says:

      12:52am | 20/02/11

      This country robs itself. i love going into borders to by a cuppa and buy a book. The stupid laws are so behind. Whats next, paying for illegal boat people funeral, paying 4 million tax payers dollars to lay fancy road outside parliment house and then have the cheek to ask for a flood tax. I am doing more cash jobs than ever and because of the tax i will have talk more bull crap to the tax agent and claim an extra $100 from some made up thing.

      Any labours that come to our house we pay cash and we know it is not on the books. who cares!

      western australia is also a rip off for everything because of the taxes. The cam recorder i like is $1700 here and the exact one interstate is $974. Cars interstate are cheaper oh and you can buy a brand new caravan 21 foot for $15,000 us, import it for $8000 and it will cost $4000 to convert the gas and electric. Australia is a shi$%^t hole and is expensive. no wonder no-one comes here. Hey if you are a tourist and decide (heavan forbid) to fly to perth. it will cost you $800 just to fly to coral bay. In japan you pay $100 to flyer anywhere in the country. I hate this country

    • G says:

      01:00am | 20/02/11

      To those people who says the US pays 7$ an hour - most people in australia get paid a much higher hourly wage because we don’t have tips. In the US, people work harder to provide better customer service for tips (which can get them much more than their hourly wages). Though I’m not sure about bookselling, the idea that you get paid for actually providing good service is much more effective IMO. People in Australia don’t care, because we have job security and don’t give a damn until the shit hits the fan….then we all whinge about how online shopping ruined our lives….

    • laura says:

      01:15am | 20/02/11

      i only buy from aussie bookstores if
      1. they are second hand stores and the book is in goo nick, ive gotten some great books which have been read once or twice for about the same price as amazon.
      2. i’m desperate to have the book NOW
      3. someone gave me a giftcard

      its been this way for me for years, ever since i was told by my french lecturer i need petit robert, the french-french dictionary. i started at dymocks. $300 for them to get it in (from some online store) borders said they couldnt get it at all, and unibooks wanted $350. i jumped online and went to amazon and they had the brand new edition only weeks old, for US$65.

      i emailed the entire class and we all bought them together and saved a bit on shipping, and they arrived in 2 weeks. not like anywhere in adelaide had the book in stock anyway, so we saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars between us.

    • bob says:

      03:35am | 20/02/11

      Rob the (former) Bookseller - you do have a point.

      However, there is nothing stopping book retailers here setting up warehouses in the outter suburbs with cheap rent and selling.

      The author of this article hit the nail on the head when it said about the automotive industry. We are paying about 10K more for second hand cars here thanks to the lack of competition. People don’t even realise that you are not allowed to import a car from overseas if it competes with a vehicle being sold here - not just the vehicle model but the whole vehicle class! You are only allowed to import vehicles on the allowable imports list - how is that free market? Oh - the government loves it this way because it collects huges taxes from the gullable Australian public. Everyone should be outraged at the sewen up car market we have here that see’s us paying more - a lot more for our vehicles than other countries enjoy.

      Certain book stores here have got my business - mainly technical books but Amazon is normally first to get new series releases while the stores here can take weeks to a month and more to get them.

      As for the jobs going OS - yes, it’s happening and it will continue to happen - my job went to India and I have not found anything to replace it for 9 months now. The government is going to find a very biug shortfall in tax income before long if it keeps going this way - we need to bolster our own local industry by getting smarter and more productive, not necessarily cheaper. The difference now is that the price difference is so huge for most technical books at least it silly to buy here - for example, computing or medical books are outrageous here.

    • Sydney Girl says:

      08:27am | 20/02/11

      We have seen the tech bubble burst and the property bubble burst in the US, now it’s books turn. Prices are artifically inflated by a monopoly to maintain profit margins making room for alternate suppliers to re-set pricing to a level the buyers are more receptive to.
      I’m calling it the biblio-bubble.

    • Sean says:

      09:55am | 20/02/11

      Rob the (former) Bookseller doesn’t get it… He went bust because laws allow greedy publishers to try and overcharge for a product and prevent parallel import. If parallel import was allowed rob could have bought the books from publishers and distributers at a price that would have allowed him to out compete internet prices.

    • Bob says:

      12:16pm | 20/02/11

      Or at least at one that wasn’t ridiculously different.

      I don’t mind paying an extra 20% I really couldn’t care less unless I was buying in bulk.

      But an extra 100%+ in many cases? (An extra 120% for one random new book I just compared online price with between here and Amazon - both paperback) That’s just screwing us because for no reason better than that people have discovered that Australians allow themselves to be screwed.

    • colin says:

      11:10am | 20/02/11

      Unlike fridge makers, writers get royalties from sales, based on the sale price. Remaindered books typically have a zero royalty.Many of the cheap books we get here are remaindered from the US where the titles turn over faster than here. Ergo - the writers get nix But the publishers and retailers make a buck.Ditto sound recordings. Electronic distribution flattens the field and gets creators their royalties.Retailers have not value added for years. Vale lazy retailers.

    • Kev says:

      11:42am | 20/02/11

      Sometimes book shops are their own worst enemy.  I recently bought a large and fairly expensive book in Borders and they wanted to charge me $1 for a bag to carry it in.  I begrudgingly paid it but never went back to Borders again.

    • Jan says:

      01:53pm | 20/02/11

      From some of the posts here, numbers of people appear to think that prices for books online at Amazon are automatically the cheapest. This is not necessarily so.

      Recently looked up Stephanie Alexander’s book, ’ The Kitchen Garden Companion ‘, price differences were amazing.

      To buy this in Australia, the RRP is AU$125.

      On Amazon, the price is US$176.35, plus extra for postage, and also for conversion rates to AU$ on your credit card.

      Go to the Book Depository site, and the price is AU$ 40.13. Not only that, but this price includes free delivery world wide, and is in Australian dollars, so there are no extra charges on your credit card.

      You won’t always find the book you want here, but no harm in trying.

      My advice is to always look around, with no preconceived opinions.

      I find it very difficult to understand what sort of rationale there is for these very different prices, and I’d like to know if there is one, and how it works.

    • Danni says:

      04:03pm | 20/02/11

      I’m an Australian Author of Science Fiction. I don’t even make the attempt for the Australian Industry. It’s something I gave up on a long time ago as its simply easier to put it into American English on an American Website with my ads. If they say this price increase is to protect Australian voices and Australian Literature they’re doing a shocking job of it as only one Aussie publisher will even look at your work without an agent.

    • Matt says:

      11:19pm | 20/02/11

      Imports and internet?  Really?  You’ve not even mentioned the enormous crippling debt that REDGroup owed.  The high debt of this private equity funded concern was the cause of collapse, not the reasons you have listed.

      It’s not as if this wasn’t predicted back in July 2010…

      http://www.theage.com.au/business/redgroup-retail-will-be-colouring-its-books-red-20100729-10y4p.html

      I don’t say this to be rude but have you considered that business matters would be better reported by business reporters, people that know the subject matter. The language in your article (luvvies for example) shows your article is based on your ideological beliefs rather than fact.

    • petery says:

      12:47pm | 21/02/11

      Can I suggst Matt that you miss the point about why this article was really written.The real reasons why Redgroup folded don’t matter to anyone here, but they were sucked   into a discussion by a journalistic hook suggesting that high book prices were responsible, and that set off an emotional response from readers that compelled them to write. You would not have got this from a rational and informed analysis of the real reasons because that would bored the crap out of people   and got
      comparatively few respones.

      As it is   you get people blaming Gillard,Abbot, the right wing left wing and other irrelevant concerns as per usual for the problem ,  along   with a huge number   seemingingly boasting how clever they have been by buying cheap books online for the last fifteen years.  All their little anecdotes about poor service and high prices are the whole truth as far as they are concerned. The broader implications don’t appear to interest or concern them,because as consumers they got the best deal, and that is all t hat apprently matters..

    • John says:

      02:03am | 21/02/11

      I ordered Planet Earth Complete series Bluray from Barnes and Noble before Xmas.  Didnt turn up at end of January.  Mid Feb get a full refund from B&N.  2 Days ago recieve the package.  Email B&N, no charge our problem enjoy your programs.  NISM

    • Jack says:

      05:18am | 21/02/11

      Long live protectionism - while it still can in small pockets.  In all cases, it is dead, in some it doesn’t quite know it yet.  I have no sympathy for industries that hid behind it - good to see it crumbling!

      If it is cheaper for me to import items on a 1 item basis by myself, something is wrong and needs to (will be) fixed.

    • Charlie says:

      08:01am | 21/02/11

      I believe in the near future the following style of comment will be left under an article talking about money savings of a different kind. “I just signed up five overseas workers to do some ‘work from home’ internet based work for me via freelancer.com, and saved 80% on local Aussie labour rates. Plus, I don’t have to worry about super, workers comp, annual leave, sick leave and all the rest of it. Sorry the jobs have gone over seas, but why hire Aussies when I can overseas workers, far cheaper”. The internet is changing a lot in our society, I wonder how long it will be before the above practice starts to gain momentum.

    • Barney says:

      08:04am | 21/02/11

      Are royalties paid to Australian writers the same as those in the US and elsewhere receive - do cheap books mean less money for the authors

    • RAJIV says:

      08:20am | 21/02/11

      When I first came to Australia from the UK in ‘97 I was shocked at how expensive the books were here. I thought it was my imagination but it wasn’t.

      I usually buy several books at a time - ordering on the net can save me $100+ - that’s a lot of moola!

      A few months ago I went to buy a cookbook from Angus&R and they wanted me to wait 2 weeks to get it from Tasmania! Plus the charge was $35.95. Had a look on book depository and the same thing was $15 inc delivery from the UK! BOUS! BOUS!

    • Roger says:

      09:09am | 21/02/11

      The local book stores cooked their own goose with bad service and high prices. I tried to buy a book from A & R in Oct, they said it would be $42 and they would have to order it in and would take a few weeks. I phoned them after 3 weeks and they said it had not been ordered yet as they would wait until they had a bigger order and also when it came in I may get it or it could go to someone else. I cancelled the order went online to bookdepositoryuk, ordered it and it arrived 10 days later at a total cost of A$19.00. I now use booko which shows the different sites prices. If I can land it from the UK in 10 days why can’t A & R.

    • John says:

      02:36pm | 01/03/11

      Books are only the beginning, all industries are heading this way. Cheaper overseas, so buy there… Sounds good today, but when Australian jobs disappear, hourly wages drop, those saying how great it is to buy books overseas cheaper to save a few dollars today, will also be many of the same people to be the first to complain when this effects them, and ‘their industry’.

    • Sweetpea says:

      11:20pm | 05/03/11

      Rob the (former) Bookseller:  $25 per hour to work in a bookshop?!  Are you serious?  Perhaps overpaying your casual staff is why your store went broke.  Approx 5 years ago I was, as an adult, legally paid $12 per hour. Now I’m a ‘professional’ with a degree and 5 years experience and guess what I’m paid?  $25 per hour. With NO leave or benefits. $25 per hour is NOT minimum wage in Australia!

      Also - I suspect you could not pay bookshop workers shitty wage in the US - you need to compensate for the fact that they won’t get tips (or they will quit to become waitresses). Also remember, full-time workers need health insurance over there…

    • Bookshopowner says:

      03:19pm | 06/07/11

      $25 per hour would cover holiday pay sick pay work cover super
      and with the US’s high unemployment you sure can pay minimum wage
      waitresses can get as little as $2.50 per hour -they HAVE to get tips
      if Royal Mail were on at least full cost recovery UK books would be a lot closer in price to those in AU -the EU has told them they must be open to competition and they will privatise within the next couple of years lets see how much postage is then….

 

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