Public transport whingers should pay twice as much

Simon Smith says:

09:40am | 15/06/09

I heartily applaud your article and having seen Brisbane get into a real mess over the last 15 yrs with lack of planning for infrastructure and constant pandering to the (often one per car) motorists, I couldn’t agree more with charging extra for public transport.  When it’s done properly it’s a huges enabler - having had the privilege of living in Copenhagen relatively recently it’s amazing what can be done with a bit of thought and admittedly well planned investment.

However I would like to say that there is one thing that’s not quite right in the article, that no city has run a successful free public transport system.  Perth actually has free public transport in and around the city and it seems to work pretty well, I’ve used it several time a month during the last 2 years on business trips and it’s fine.

On the whole we need more awareness of the issues as I for one am sick of seeing so many cars with one person jamming the streets of Brisbane.  Unfortunately the lack of a viable public transport system means it ain’t gonna change anytime soon!

Geordie says:

10:56am | 15/06/09

You don’t think you’ve missed the point a little?  You say it should cost more, that less of the cost should be subsidised and this would drive improvement, but you glide past the fact that Sydney’s public transport system is a late, overcrowded mess of incompetence and a study in lack of accountability - the fact that prices on Sydney’s trains over the last five years have consistently climbed while the number of services has consistently declined leads me to believe that some of your economics need a double-check.

Andrew says:

11:40am | 15/06/09

Uh.. you’ve obviously never been to perth where they run a reliable free CBD bus system..

Andrew says:

11:44am | 15/06/09

Oh.. and another thing - where do you think the money comes from for subsidised travel?

It comes from the taxpayer who is catching the overcrowded late train.

James A says:

11:44am | 15/06/09

If public transport cost more in Melbourne, there would be no incentive to use it. Its $10.60 a day now in the outer suburbs for a daily ticket - increase that by 50% and its cheaper for me to drive to work.

As it is now, its cheaper for my wife and I to drive in to work than it is to take public transport… go figure.

OXG says:

11:45am | 15/06/09

I think your confused Fiona, even if we paid more there no guarantee that problems would be fixed because public transport in NSW is not under resoruced its just squandered mispent and wrongly allocated. 

The train line Chatswood to Parramatta never arrived instead it took twice as long cost twice as much and delivered half the value.

If instead they rolled out cheap, effective and quick to build light rail (trams) around town I am sure that just dedicating one car lane to light rail would resolve the congestion in many places.

But there are too many political donors who has vested interest in the existing massive ineffective infrastructure projects that constantly need expensive maintenance work by their mates.

It has nothing to do with under resource it more that existing vested interested wanting to keep the status quo. What ever happened to CBD light rail?

pete says:

11:45am | 15/06/09

how stupid are the bankers in this story. the reason that the trains are overcrowed is that there is greater demand than there is supply. what the hell do they think will happen is the price was to drop to zero. demand would increase massivily and the trains would be even more overcrowed. if you really wanted to stop overcroweding the most simple solution would be to raise the price

Amy says:

11:49am | 15/06/09

You compare not paying for public transport to not paying for petrol. Petrol might cost more, comparatively speaking, but at least it delivers on its service promise. If petrol occasionally made your car break down or run slow so you’d be late people would probably complain and look for alternatives. People will pay for a service that delivers - it’s just sad and stupid that commuters who don’t pay are making the problem worse, not better.

David says:

11:50am | 15/06/09

I have a solution for Australia’s public transport operators: act like any other business and improve the service first so that customers actually want to patronise the service.

For some reason, our elected officials expect us to “do the right thing” and use a crap service without complaint. They seem to believe we will put up with it for years until enough people are putting up with the over-priced, over-crowded, under-delivering system so they can afford to improve it.

I put up with it in Melbourne for 15 years and finally realised nothing would ever improve.

If anyone seriously believes it will improve from it’s current state in the next 20 years, they’re dreaming.

ZB says:

11:51am | 15/06/09

having actually worked in the offices and used public transport and now being a driver of said public transport.  What amazes me is that how people bleet about buses being late everyday and say that the bus is always late…um its called peak time for a reason. and i do try to help you get to where you are going faster, but you don’t want to transfer buses or get a seat on that one leaving now because it makes a few extra stops, despite the fact that it may actually get there faster because the one that you want is late.

Carly says:

11:53am | 15/06/09

Try being a commuter who has to travel on a train for over 4 hours every day. It costs me over $200 a month in fares, and due to the suburb I work in, I have to get an ALL Stations train…which is why I could drive there in 50 mins…but instead takes me 2 hours on a train (not to mention the 15 mins drive to the station, the battle for parking and then lining up for wayyy too long because only one out of three ticket windows are open on a Monday morning!). Sydney’s tickets have been increasing, but their reliability has gone down. My train is delayed most mornings, and in the afternoon, I have to stand for an hour before I get a seat.

So yeah…I really should stop complaining, shouldn’t I?

bob says:

11:53am | 15/06/09

Its been known for a long time (and was recently reinforced by a study) that public transport users create sufficient positive externalities to compensate for the total government subsidy… so in effect we ARE paying for the cost of our trip.

The negative externalities to work productivity and the environment caused by cars and traffic by far outweigh fuel excise tax revenues.

Short of building massive amounts of new rail infrastructure (which a moderate ticket rise will never pay for), the only way to entice new commuters is to drop prices.

Andrew says:

11:55am | 15/06/09

Why should I be paying more for an appalling, overcrowded service ? I stand every night home to the Gold Coast…a 70min trip. And it doesn’t matter if I catch a 5pm service, or 5:30pm or even 6pm…they’re all over crowded and I have to stand on all.

QR’s touted improvements were simply to add additional stops at Loganlea on existing services, thereby overcrowding them further. What genius thought of that ?

To have NO additional services during peak hour is a disgrace. Trains to the Gold Coast are every half hour all day…instead of less frequent off-peak (trains of which are virtually empty until after midnight - I know…my house overlooks the train line near Robina) and more frequent during peak - this basic fact that seems to have eluded QR.

Take a look at other states…when living in VIC, the V/Line service was impeccable…services every 15mins from Geelong to Melbourne (again, a 70min trip).Yet every hour during off-peak periods. Actually some sense built into the timetable…on that worked.

QR’s timetable defies belief.

And to have the pre-recorded announcement proudly state that “this is an EXPRESS service to Beenleigh, stopping only at Loganlea”...WTF ?! since when is an ‘express’ service called and ‘express’ service when it has stops ?! QR are idiots.

HERE’S AN IDEA - HOW ABOUT IMPROVING THE EXISTING SERVICE FIRST BEFORE RAISING THE COST OF TRAVEL ?

Katherine says:

11:56am | 15/06/09

Well I caught a very reliable and frequent public transport system in Hong Kong and the average fare was a lot cheaper than the Melbourne System costs. How can this be so?

Jack says:

11:56am | 15/06/09

You made a big, fat and WRONG assumption that the COST is the REAL COST. If the contractors have to bribe RailCorp managers to get a job, how much more they would have to charge extra to cover the bribe money? If all mid-level managers are up to scratch, maybe half of them will no longer needed.  How much would that save?
STOP reasoning the huge cost it has to be!

Naren says:

11:56am | 15/06/09

The article has some valid points, i dont completely agree with it. The word ‘PUBLIC’ means, its run for the general population, subsidy aside, we all do pay taxes and lot of it too. I travel from way down south all the way up to the North, which is an hr’s journey, I dont mind paying the $44 a week ticket, but thats just for the train, unlike Melbourne, where you can ride the bus/train/tram with one ticket, here in Sydney you pay a lot more every time you change mode of transport or even change the line your travelling in the same zone and yes its standing room only, not to mention sudden cancellations of trains. Driving is worse, agreed, but if they do run a public transport system, the least they can do is have it on time and run more frequently, not sure about people living in the inner suburbs, but we DO PAY FOR OUR TICKETS.

Pete says:

11:59am | 15/06/09

What on earth are you talking about. I managed to get from the Gold Coast, all the way to Bathurst using nothing but public transport (ok the Plane isn’t exactly public) for only $149 all up including a cheeseburger on the way. Use it wisely and you can get around this fine country from one end to the other for under $200 each time. People are just too lazy to do the research first. No overcrowding, no delays, and very cheap. Go on. make it free, then see how much you b*%$h about your taxes going up to pay for it.

Terry Davies says:

12:07pm | 15/06/09

Sure, that’s why Bangkok has a modern clean, efficient rail system with trains every 5 minutes. Non- subsidised, cheap(30k trip = $1.50 AUST., 26 mins.). 100% reliable auto-ticketing machines. Practically impossible to avoid paying the fare. Everything is Siemens. Overhead and underground.
Have a look: http://www.bts.co.th/en/btstrain.asp
The real issue regarding public transport in Australia is mis-management by the Governments and empire building by the Civil Service and Unions.
And btw, the bankers in the story are purely fictional.

Yaddles says:

12:07pm | 15/06/09

Hmmmm the striped suit fellas comments were taken out of context. 
If you go to a resturant and the order never arrives, then would you expect pay for it?
If you buy a plane ticket to Sydney and the plane never takes off, would you expect to pay for it?
If you buy a PS3 and it doesnt play games would you expect your money back?
In all cases you would expect your money back or not to pay at all.  So why should you pay for a service that is consistantly below expectations and what is promised is not what you get.

Hence what the stripey suit men are saying is that if they are getting crammed into a metal stink pot, that arrives late, gets you to your deistination even later and gives you crappy service, then why should you pay for it?

Im sure they would be happy to pay if the service met their expectations and delivered the promises of Connex and the Governement.

Sure I agree with you, if paying more actually improved the service then damn straight I would pay more, but the tickets do go up each year and the service gets worse.  So do you really think that giving a company more money is going to make them better?  I know GM have done wonders with the government funding in the US, so much so they are ...oh hang on they are not bankrupt.

PS by the way, you said the service get you everywhere you want to go….hmmmm I guess you never go on a plane.  Try going to the airport on public transport.

Kate says:

12:09pm | 15/06/09

I wouldn’t mind paying slightly more for public transport if they could guarantee me that they would be on time, no bus/train would sail past with a ‘sorry, bus/train full’ sign and bus drivers stopped tail-gating, used sufficient time/space to break so that we dont all get thrown into the seat in front, and stopped subscribing to the ‘if you can’t find it, grind it’ mentality when it comes to changing gears.

Es says:

12:10pm | 15/06/09

I also moved to the inner suburbs, but unlike the writer, I choose to use the bike paths and my trusty two wheeler instead.  The tram can take anything from 20-50 minutes to get to the city, depending on the traffic, yet riding my bike takes around 15 minutes from door to door.  With my bike there is no waiting around for a tram or train to arrive, and no walking to and from the stop/stations.  I just ride to my destination and lock my bike to the nearest bike stand.  I would rather put my money to improving bike facilities, including bike paths/lanes and lock up bike cages, than in increasing any form of traffic on the roads.  Amsterdam made a concerted effort to encourage bike travel to reduce traffic and it is now a very pleasant city to walk around.  Melbourne would do well to try to emulate this example.

B.C says:

12:11pm | 15/06/09

The only developed country that never built a reliable rail service from day 1. we will now be forever playing catch up. Truth is we need more rail. It’s the only way to efficiently move very large volumes of people in a short space of time.

BK says:

12:12pm | 15/06/09

Maybe if you got paid about the same as the rest of us, you wouldn’t be so over-opinionated.I have friends who can’t even afford to regularly take public transport.

kelvin says:

12:14pm | 15/06/09

fiona..

the ‘commuters from wealthy inner suburbs _ the very freeloaders who enjoy the best availability and convenience of services _ who are most likely to avoid putting their hands in their pockets.’

..these are the people contributing most to the states wealth and ability to provide subsidised public transport..if anyone is ‘paying their way’ on public transport and any other publice service for that matter, its the wealthy inner suburb freeloaders you mention..

Ben says:

12:13pm | 15/06/09

I love Canberra.  Hmm, I might drive home for lunch today.

Oh and by golly, when I knock off at 5pm today I just hate that 15 minutes of rush hour traffic I have to endure to get home.  Poor me.

Alan says:

12:14pm | 15/06/09

Connex passengers need to man up. I’ll bet they haven’t used the Vline Regional Train Services recently.

Living in Melbourne but going home to the country to visit friends and family pretty regularly I’ve been subjected to.

-Having my train canceled so it can run the route of a Connex train, cause that train died this morning.

-Having my train delayed because of a quote “broken door.”

-Having my train canceled and being taken by bus on my four hour journey. This has happened no fewer than seven times, no joke a total of seven times so far.

-Food and toilet facilities that resemble each other

-And my personal favorite, a record arriving home at 1am, three hours later than expected after a 7 hour mish-mash when both trains and buses broke.

Frank says:

12:15pm | 15/06/09

Right now, yes, we pay peanuts.  But we get a rubbish service. I am all in favour of paying more for a better service but the reality is that if fares on Melbourne’s trains went up so there was no subsidy, the service would not improve.

The trains would still be late and crowded (if they run at all) and we’d still have to run the gauntlet of the ticket inspector goons.

Sardine says:

12:16pm | 15/06/09

I think you missed the point about people’s complaint at having to pay for public transport, especially trains. You correctly pointed out that they resent having to pay, but you missed the second half of that argument, being that they have to pay for a poor service which is only getting worse.
As a regular commuter into Sydney CBD, my blood boils at seeing ticket inspectors during their “crack-downs” on fare evasion. It is expected that the commuter pulls their end of the bargain, ie paying for their fare, but RailCorp deem it perfectly acceptable to cut services, cancel trains and let trains run late. Who conducts “crack-downs” on late trains, cancelled trains, and the poor conditions in which commuters are carried?
In Sydney a new line connecting Chatswood and Epping has been constructed, with absolutely no foresight as to what that may mean for services from Chatswood to the CBD once commuters arrive in Chatswood from the Epping line. No additional services have been implemented to deal with the additional supply of commuters on the line from Chatswood to the city.
In addition, the train temperature is horrendous. I can only imagine that the air conditioning is set for 20 or 25 degrees, again with no foresight of what actually happens to that temperature when a thousand commuters are packed like sardines on a train, each commuter emitting a temperature in the vicinity of 37 degrees. What happens is that in the middle of winter we are packed into a train whose temperature is more like 35 degrees wearing winter clothing with sweat trickling down our backs. The trains are also smelly and stuffy, as if they haven’t had fresh air run through them in years. It’s absolutely disgusting.
Yes, I begrudge having to pay my fare. Not because I’m stingy, not because I think I’m entitled to free public transport at taxpayers’ expense. But because the service I receive is of an extremely poor quality.

Benjamin says:

12:17pm | 15/06/09

Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan all have lovely, clean, reliable and cheap transport so why can’t we? Are you sure it actually costs that much to run or are there leakages from bad management, fat lazy staff who don’t want to be there, and unions?

Marty says:

12:17pm | 15/06/09

I take it you never got past the first week of economics?  Some transactions have externalities, or costs or benefits not seen by the immediate market participants.  Having everyone drive cars to work has a huge negative externality, if we factored in the real costs of pollution, congestion, injuries and the amount of land we set aside for roads, petrol would be $10 a litre.  Having people ride public transport has huge benefits for a society.  It reduces congestion and pollution, injury and death rates are lower etc.  That’s why ticket prices are much lower than the nominal costs, because as public transport is seen by many people in Australia as an inferior good, prices have to be set artificially low to induce people to use it.  You can’t directly compare the costs of car ownership to public transport, there is a huge difference in the utility and perceived benefit from car ownership, which is why we (me included) spend too much money on cars with way more power and space than we’ll ever need.

Matthew says:

12:18pm | 15/06/09

I think you’re missing a point here Fiona.

The government would actually save a lot of money on road and infrastructure repairs and maintance if more people used public transport. The cost savings there more then make up for the fact that our fairs only cover half of the real cost of running a public transport system.

If you doubled the price on public transport fairs it’s only going to promote people to drive their own cars, further damaging the environement, increasing maintance costs (wear and tear) of the roads, and causing more trafic congestion.

The costs of these far outway the cost to the state governments in subsidising public transport. If anything the governments should be investing more money into providing better services and cheaper public transport as the cost savings in other areas will more then make back the amount the government would lose subsidising the public transport system.

I find your acrticle to be completely lacking of depth or quality. This is nothing more then a simple blog, you’ve presented no proof or reasearch to support your views.

Also you might want to take a look at Japan’s public transport system. It is heavily subsidised by their government, more so then most countries in the world. Japan’s public transport is also one of the most used in the world, with tens of millions using it daily. Further to that it’s also regarded as one of the most efficient, fastest, and reliable. Their government has lost billions over the past 3 decades in building and maintaining Japan Rail.

Not every public service needs to be profitable, other wise i expect a return on my taxes as clearly they’re an investment.

Matt says:

12:18pm | 15/06/09

“It brings into focus the increasingly tiresome carping about Australia’s supposedly Third-World public transport systems”.

Have you been to Berlin? Use public transport there and then tell me with a straight face that NSW’s system isn’t Third World in comparison.

YN says:

12:21pm | 15/06/09

I like living in Japan for just this reason, eventhough you pay alot to go on the train, it is clean, always on time and airconditioned!

They need to revamp the whole train system particularly in Sydney

Yet as a society , Australians also need to respect public property, the train is not for graffiti, drunken bouts or garbage, perhaps raising the prices will keep some of the scum off the train

Oliver says:

12:23pm | 15/06/09

You are right, up to a point.

Having lived in London for years, public transport fares in Melbourne are fantastic in comparison. But then, they are pretty much on a par with Paris and NY.

The trains and trams here, compared to some European cities, are clean and fairly reliable. And those complaining about a crush in Melbourne peak hour clearly haven’t ever experienced the Tube at Tottenham Court Road at 5.30pm.

That said, your call for fares to be increased is slightly bizarre. How will people be encouraged to take public transport if the cost goes up? They’ll just lazily jump in their cars, as they always have.

The lack of routes and infrastructure that means your plumber can’t travel by bus to his job is the fault of successive governments, not so much Connex and the like.

The government needs to fund a radical overhaul of public transport in this country, never mind Victoria. Cheap, clean, regular public transport hubs need to be established throughout Melbourne to allow people to ditch their cars.

Ryan says:

12:23pm | 15/06/09

Fiona with comments like “I get angrier still when I overhear pleas for mercy from inner-city silvertails” and “fare evasion statistics show it’s commuters from wealthy inner suburbs etc” suggests to me that you are a little jaded towards those people. I wear a suit, does that make me a silvertail? Its not just suit wearing bankers who are frustrated, its everyone!!!! I for one i am not asking for free transport, but how hard is it to make a train run on time? How hard is it to ensure that a peak hour train has 8 carriages instead of 6 so people are not crammed? Oh and your “Fair evasion statistics” would be based on people that got caught right? That just shows that people on the North Shore get caught more, probably because most of the Transit officers are based around the city. Send them out to Mt Druitt for a week, then run your statistics again.

Natalie says:

12:29pm | 15/06/09

Having lived in FInland for a year where prices are higher I do support raising the fares but I would like to see them actually do something about the infrastructure. Raising the fares helps noone and only causes dissent if there is nothing appearing to have been done with the extra money people pay. When the government raises fares and then reduces services then it is no wonder people don’t want to pay extra.

James Fiander says:

12:28pm | 15/06/09

Fiona,

In the past there have been calls for no-charge public transport as the cost of administering and collecting the fare is actually less than is made during the transaction. Here in Sydney, for example the government spends a great deal of money on an organisation to make sure fares are fair and equitable across all transport types (called IPART), then there is the transaction costs and accounting costs of third party operators who essentially are collecting money on behalf of the government, then there is the cost of ticketing machines and people employed to operate ticketing booths and ticketing machines.

Aside from the wages and administrative costs, if we were to eliminate any upgrade to the CityFail ticketing machines and ticket gates for all time in the future, eliminate the lines of people buying a ticket on a bus and so on the gained efficiencies would also contribute to a “saving”... The argument for no-charge public transport is a valid one.

I guess we just need to decide if we want to live in a user pays environment or a tax payer pays environment. Currently we are essentially paying to encourage transport to be inefficient.

nate says:

12:31pm | 15/06/09

go to perth, the public transport there doesn’t cover much in terms of area, but it’s significantly cheaper and a lot more reliable than sydney. Perth also has the CAT system which is a great free service for going around the city.

I can no longer count the number of times when WALKING would have gotten me to my destination faster than the horrid mess that is the sydney bus system. And don’t get me started on trains, every single week there seems to be trackwork and a lot of the stations are ridiculously stupid in terms of design, take central for example, for a station that big, it has all of one toilet location. A friend told me there’s actually two locations, but he’s the only one who said that, everybody else I know was only ever able to find one.

Les says:

12:32pm | 15/06/09

I use public transport, and like most people I’m actually paying for public transport twice. Once in my taxes, and secondly in the ticket price, so that’s not exactly a free ride by any stretch of the imagination.

The argument that public transport should cost more is pathetic. If it did cost more there would be less incentive for people to use it, and hence less people using it. If less people use public transport, the frequency of services and number of routes decreases, meaning that the people still using the public transport have less options for getting around.

In a world where the fares were increased, there would be no benefit from using public transport and the only people that would continue to use public transport are the people that cannot afford to have cars to drive around in. The poorest people would be paying more money to use downgraded public transport. What a brilliant idea!

That is the best case scenario. What would likely happen is that the poorest people would not pay the ticket fare, because they cannot afford it, but they still use the system, because they have no other option. This would result in a downgraded public transport system that hardly anyone uses, and of the people that do use it, they don’t pay to use it, which results in an even bigger burden on the government, and bigger burden on the tax payers.

This is just scratching the surface on all the negative impacts that would result in increasing public transport fares – social impacts – economic impacts – environmental impacts. Maybe journalists should stick to reporting the news, and leave the problem solving to people that can think the consequences through.

Travis Dodd says:

12:34pm | 15/06/09

‘least you guys have rail services to complain about in the Eastern states! SA’s public transport is so busy-reliant it is awful. And more than $4 now for a single fare? It’s obscene, I live 4kms out of the city and an 8-minute bus ride to town and back would cost $9 - and you want to increase the price? As everyone is saying, let’s get the service up to scratch, then we can talk about jacking up the fares. A tram line to Norwood, North Adelaide, Burnside/foothills and Marion would be a start in SA.

Concerned says:

12:35pm | 15/06/09

I have recently come back from Japan. I marvel at their train system, since they stop at the designated location allowing the commuters to quickly enter and exit out of the trains. Their ticketing system allows a quick flow of commuters on and off the station. Even their bullet trains have quick commuter exchange times - average stop time of 2mins at the stations, for the trip I was on. No doubt Japan has its own problems with their trains system.

The whole point is that we need to update/upgrade our system to be more efficient, look at other countries and the way they have implemented/solved this problem and gain some inspiration to solve ours. You need to change the system and not put more money into one that doesn’t work…

C-One says:

12:37pm | 15/06/09

Good arguments, however if you’re going to write a long winded b*&h about our public transport system some research with more DEPTH is probably warranted.  My main problem with our public transport is CONNEX.  Do some research into this entity - they are as corrupt as corrupt come.  They are currently starting a project worth hundreds of millions in the illegally occupied West Bank in Israel - to install a public transport system for JEWS ONLY WITHIN PALESTINIAN TERRITORY.

They are a company that profiteers off of death on a daily basis and it is quite disgusting that Australians are paying for it.

You quote research about foreign public transport systems yet seem to have neglicted one of the primary companies itself that operates here.  Opinionative journalism is only worth it’s weight when supported by RESEARCH, not simply hot air.

Rob says:

12:37pm | 15/06/09

Train tickets only cover a maximum 27% of the total cost to run/maintain trains and infrastructure in the Sydney basin alone!
The government subsidises the rest..
Mind you in Bejing I can go the equivelant of newcastle to Wollongong distance for AU$4
The Sydney rail system is flawed by design, the bottleneck occurs at Sydney Central.. The timetables has to reflect it.
Also by design one rail line crashes basically stalls or stops at least one more..
Once this is resolved then all lines can and will run independantly..
The signalling system is also a bit archaic and that’s being upgraded over time…

Ben says:

12:37pm | 15/06/09

I guess the basics are this:

If we want the systems to get better, we’re going to have to pay more for the improvements to be made.

However, as for it being twice as much, I’m not so sure.
And the system being free could have merit - in NSW the estimated revenue from public transport is only $1b.

If we had $1b to spare, which we don’t at the moment, but if we did, then I would support the system being free.

Jirka says:

12:41pm | 15/06/09

I have travelled a lot but Melbourne’s public transport is one of the worst I have seen. In places like Prague, the subway trains go every single minute during rush hours and the trains are clean and on time. The prices are very reasonable and old folks go free… in New Zealand, kids in school uniforms are not allowed to sit down….. far cry from here where fat kids, on mobile phones, eating chippies, occupy seats while old people have to stand and hang on…
  Even as a child, growing in a poor communist country, public transport was running 24 hours a day….. I feel for those living in places like Frankston and other distant suburbs trying to get home after a late show or a night out….
  I think free, or very reasonable public transport prices (as well as safe and dependable transport) would get many cars of the road, make the environment cleaner, and save lots of anger and unnecessary headaches….
  Just a thought….

Russell says:

12:43pm | 15/06/09

Fiona, may I suggest a little research prior to releasing an article such as this. Maybe try a little peak time travel with Connex in Melbourne, or better try Vline’s peak services where there are regular 30-60 minute delays. Once you have done this take a trip overseas to see how it is done there. London’s Tube, whilst being overcrowded, runs quickly, cleanly and efficiently. The Paris Metro and RER, again overcrowded but they run a clean fast service. If you tried to sell the inhabitants of these two cities a service with some peak services running every 10-15 minutes you would have riots on your hands and when you weigh up the costs they aren’t all that different.

A well written article, but it does fall short on facts.

A says:

12:52pm | 15/06/09

Dependency on public transport and its problems have already become well-known facts.

Another thing I don’t understand, why do we have to buy full-fare tickets on PUBLIC HOLIDAYS???? All services are run on week-end timetable, so why pay for week-day service ????

Lauren says:

12:57pm | 15/06/09

My car was recently stolen so I have had to use public transport for the last little while.  For me, this is far more expensive than when I was running a car…

I only travel to and from work now, and my weekend activities have been greatly reduced so that I am no longer able to go out as much.

However, it is costing almost twice as much on a weekly basis than when I had a car.

me my mo says:

12:59pm | 15/06/09

Australians certainly pay a lot in taxes and our public services are poorly run. Now you want us to pay even more to encourage our public run sectors poor management. Wonderful.

Steve Raby says:

01:01pm | 15/06/09

You are spot on!

Last year I completed 18 months of commuting to the CBD with my present employer and was late only twice due to the system. A lot more of the time due to myself !

I drive outside of theCBD for at least an hour to work and that is on a good day.

Luisa says:

01:02pm | 15/06/09

Obviously the person who did write this does not have to pay for Public Transport. OR Parking in the city, its easy for you to complain but when you are paying $170 bucks a month while paying off debts as well as maintain a life style…. it is a little expensive!

Louise says:

01:19pm | 15/06/09

Fiona,

Why isn’t Perth mentioned at all in this article? Like other commenters have noted Perth has a free bus service in both Fremantle and Perth and a new train line was established to connect Mandurah and Perth a while ago. Instead of making public transport free why don’t the governments of all states introduce more carriages to make life easier for commuters than more people will use the services and there will be less cars on the roads.

CC says:

01:21pm | 15/06/09

Very well for you in your single person, single zone, high income world.  I,  on the other hand, live in Brisbane in the outer suburbs on a single income with two kids that I pick up every weekend from the coast. 

Leaving aside the daily commute that costs ten dollars per day to sit in a sardine tin of a train I would like to mention the four trips to the 50 minute drive away coast.  When I am finally on the train with my two young daughters this 50 minute drive generally takes around two and a half hours at the (reasonable?) cost of $20 return for me and $10 return for each of my daughters.  So one trip to pick them up and bring them home costs $30 and 5 hours.  The problem here is that I could do the trip in half the time for the same money in my car (and i could do that if i had two more kids to fit in).

If we were serious about getting cars of the road trips such as these would be financially viable for families that would otherwise use a car.  Not just financially for the inner city single.

h says:

01:32pm | 15/06/09

There’s no way people would pay double for public transport - you’re glossing over the fact it’s an absolutely miserable experience and you cannot just ignore the fact it is not reliable.

Do you really believe the service would get better if the ticket price doubled? Or would you just be paying double?

People who already have a car are not comparing the price of the car with the price of a bus ticket. They are comparing the price of parking with the price of a bus ticket. Then they are comparing being crammed into hot/cold/smelly/crowded spaces with sitting comfortably in a climate controlled car without people sneezing in your ear.

Take the moral highground all you like but public transport makes people miserable, and miserable people do not like the fact they paid for the experience. Then they look at the extraordinary amount of tax they also pay and they wonder just what the hell is going on?

RT says:

02:03pm | 15/06/09

Fortunately I am not a public transport user. Not that I’m against it, just that my 45 minute crosstown commute would become a 90 minute 1 bus and two train trip, even when things were running smoothly. And when I stay back at work for evening meetings, the public transport system at 10pm wouldn’t suit my needs. Years ago when travelling by bus from an inner Sydney suburb to work in the CBD, I used to favour the old Leyland double decker buses. They had no rear door, allowing passengers to jump off in heavy traffic and beat the bus home on foot.

Reg says:

03:05pm | 15/06/09

Benjamin, the tax on car purchases in HK is the same as the price of the car.

Hoping not to get Hannahed again, the subsidy to public transport is currently such a large proportion of the total, that to include the rest and make public transport free, would be a pressure to get car off the road.

Then the roads would be the play-ground of the rich and we could apply exorbitant tax levies to them and direct it towards paying for the public transport.

This would result in fewer road users and reduce the real estate lost to roads making some of it available for new rail links. The rail links would of course be of the German mag-lev variety such as China has been using out of Shanghai for the last five or so years. 90 miles in seven and a half minutes.

Maddie says:

03:38pm | 15/06/09

I live about 30km from the city centre in Adelaide. There are two different bus lines running past my house. (There are no trams or trains anywhere near the area) One to major shopping centre about 8 km away which runs once an hour Monday through Saturday (despite the fact that we have Sunday trading) and finishes at 4.30pm which of course meant that when I worked in the shopping centre I couldn’t catch public transport to work as I would have no way of getting home when I finished at 5pm.

The other bus line runs to the city centre. In the time table it claims that it takes one hour. However during peak hour it takes almost two hours. I unfortunately discovered this after deciding to “do the right thing for the environment” and catch the bus to work. Never again.

The bus to the city also has a poorly planned timetable. Most office workers start work on the hour - 9.00, maybe on the half hour 8.30 or 9.30, these buses arrive in the CBD at a time which seems inconvenient for everyone. 8.25 or 9.25. Meaning you’re either going to be very late or very early. So if I wanted to be at work to start at nine I had to catch the bus which would get me in at 8.25, but since the buses take 2 hours in the morning instead of 1 (despite what the timetables say) I had to catch the bus at 6.25. Two hours and 35minutes to travel 30 kilometres? Where’s the sense in that!! I now leave the house at 7.45 and drive every day and as I go past the buses, I feel sorry for the poor passengers who have to take them everyday.

Benjamin says:

04:09pm | 15/06/09

Fiona, I’ve only just been introduced to The Punch by a friend earlier today, and I’m already fired up! Your article gives the impression that Sydney’s PT is underpriced when it’s obvious the opposite is true. A ticket on the train from Museum to Circular Quay costs $3.20 which is a complete rort considering the distance involved and the service provided. Maybe if the train was cleaner, newer, quieter, smelt better, ran more frequently and didn’t end at midnight it would be better value? Or maybe if the corruption, union dominance and overpaid managers of CityRail were weeded out the price would drop? Or maybe if the network was expanded to the degree it should be (and was promised well before the Olympics), economies of scale would kick in and the price would drop?

It infuriates me when commuters like myself make submissions to CityRail and Ipart about the high (and ever rising) cost of fares, and then we not only get ignored but have to read tripe like yours about the supposedly “cheap” system.

Benjamin says:

04:31pm | 15/06/09

Fiona,

I’ve only just been introduced to The Punch by a friend earlier today, and I’m already fired up! Your article gives the impression that Sydney’s PT is underpriced when it’s obvious the opposite is true. A ticket on the train from Museum to Circular Quay costs $3.20 which is a complete rort considering the distance involved and the service provided. Maybe if the train was cleaner, newer, quieter, smelt better, ran more frequently and didn’t end at midnight it would be better value? Or maybe if the corruption, union dominance and overpaid managers of CityRail were weeded out the price would drop? Or maybe if the network was expanded to the degree it should be (and was promised well before the Olympics), economies of scale would kick in and the price would drop?

It infuriates me when commuters like myself make submissions to CityRail and Ipart about the high (and ever rising) cost of fares, and then we not only get ignored but have to read tripe like yours about the supposedly “cheap” system.

Dingo_aus says:

05:06pm | 15/06/09

Just privatise public transport completely without regulation or subsidy.

The fares would be the “correct” amount for each service and companies would compete for patronage, they would compete on timeliness, cleanliness and price.  Things the current public transport system is failing absolutely at.

Talitha O'Connor says:

06:51pm | 15/06/09

A great deal has recently been invested in Perth’s public transport system, and the results speak for themselves. We have an almost entirely paperless ticket system, the trains run every 5 or 15 minutes, more frequently in peak hour, and whilst they are often very crowded in peak traffic, they’re not (usually) smelly or hot. It’s improved to the point where I no longer despise the 20 minute commute to uni… a trip 10 minutes shorter than driving.

Despite this, the fares have risen negligibly (~10c for a student 1 zone ticket), because I’m sure our state govt realised that despite the initial outlay, they would reap the benefits when running a far more economically efficient system whilst still charging us the same.

Despite great budget deficits, the fact remains that the money can be made available. We did it over west!

Oh, and we also have a free public transport system (bus& train) within the CBD

Anthony says:

07:27pm | 15/06/09

“Road users pay their way - just look at the hefty excise on every litre of petrol. “

Don’t think so. Neither does the Dept of Transport who has calculated that road users only pay 1/3 of their costs. The few dollars from your excise taxes doesn’t pay much for the repair of a pothole let alone rebuilding of a road. Roads are very expensive to build and maintain.

At least you didn’t trot out the old “truism” that car registration pays for the roads. It actually pays for insurance and administration of registration.

I would charge both the road and public transport user more as this would be fairer to everyone.

Not everyone has a car or can use public transport. Why should they pay for others?

Bored says:

08:07pm | 15/06/09

You didn’t really put much thought into this did you? The only other city I have ever seen with such a bad price/quality ratio was London. Let’s face it, you’re just writing this piece to make out that low income earners in rural areas should be getting more, while the high income earners in urban areas should be getting less of a hand out from the government. Even though they are paying much higher taxes. But let’s face it, the only person in this story who is reaping the rewards they don’t deserve is you. So far all you have proven is that two bankers rant ignorantly on a train, and that makes them naggers, while one person rants ignorantly on paper and that makes her a columnist (Or writer, or the peoples interpreter, or whatever the you want to call yourself).
Though it was not your intention, congratulations on proving Australia’s underlying ignorance and how easy it really is for some of us to make money, while the others start work at 6:45 in the morning.

Anthony says:

01:12am | 16/06/09

Well if you are living within 10km of the CBD you really have nothing to complain about!

Micko says:

09:40am | 16/06/09

Cost recovery on passanger rail in NSW is 22% per cent of farebox!  That’s money siphoned away from health and education towards the transport rich residents of the inner city.  As such a resident myself it is a fantastic subsidy to me.  I also accept that if the subsidy didn’t exist we would all be worse off. Free public transport is code for large increases in taxation, then question would then be how the tax would be levied and who would pay.  Thanks to the High Court the states have very few taxation options, most are economically inefficient. The best option would be a general property tax, perhaps levied at a higher rate according to how well the suburb is serviced by public transport—now that would be an interesting proposition.

Dryer Vent Cleaning says:

12:34pm | 19/09/09

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Shane From Melbourne says:

02:04pm | 19/09/09

Good to see Australians whinging about their public transport systems, everybody needs a hobby…..

Terry says:

01:26am | 14/10/10

Its 2010, where the hell is my hover car!

LC says:

01:04pm | 17/08/11

“It brings into focus the increasingly tiresome carping about Australia’s supposedly Third-World public transport systems”.

Go to practically any country in eastern Europe, or to Japan, or hell, even certain cities in the US (San Fransico for example), use the public transport, come back, use the public transport here and try saying that again with a straight face.

David Lindberg says:

07:20pm | 18/07/12

seriously, make public transport cheap, efficient and RELIABLE as an incentive to get people out of their cars. PTV or whatever their name is now are a horrible and extremely arrogant company, just look at their aggressive slogans. Oh, and myki is a joke, check out the octopus card in HK and the oyster in London, miles better than this backward crap

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