“Homosexual tendencies (are) one of many conditions that beset fallen humanity.”

According to Exodus International’s policy statements, those who embrace “homosexual behaviours” have lives that are “sinful” and “destructive”.

Rather than simply condemn non-heterosexual desire, Exodus International (A Christian organisation that condemns homosexuality) adopts what they refer to as a ‘redemptive’ approach – seeking to ‘reorient’ the ‘fallen’.

Now accessing such ‘therapy’ is just a click away. Apple has caused enormous furor by permitting Exodus International to promote its work with a new application that encourages same-sex attracted people to abstain from their ‘moral sickness’ and ‘heal’ themselves by becoming heterosexual.

Rather than engaging in the polemical debates about banning the application, we ought to be asking a much broader question: Does the “ex-gay” reparative politics preached by groups such as Exodus International have any social currency in our world today?

Framing homosexuality as a moral defect is neither new, nor an idea confined to religion. Since the late 19th century, the threat of homosexuality emerged as a specific political identity. Not only did punitive laws define same-sex relationships as criminal, the psychiatric profession came out to diagnose all non-heterosexual desires as symptomatic of a mental illness.

Although legal and psychiatric disciplines in Australia no longer advocate such politics, the legacy of policing moral conduct remains. Major medical and psychological associations, including the American Medical Association, have rejected the use of reparative therapies.

Reparative therapies identify same-sex attraction as a developmental social defect that ought to be corrected. Such therapies rely on coercive techniques aimed at controlling the body. This includes encouraging abstinence, disciplining physical comportment (how you walk, talk etc) and providing peer-support networks to enforce the boundaries of ‘appropriate’ interaction between people of the same and opposite sex.

“Reorienting” desires, or transforming from gay to straight, becomes possible by using gender as the vehicle for discipline. Put simply, in order to be “straight”, men must be masculine and women must be feminine.

Gendered logic is not a unique feature of the reparative therapies used by faith-based ‘ex-gay’ groups. How often are same-sex attracted men accused of being “fairies” and told to “man up”? How often are women chastised as being ‘too butch’ for choosing to play sports instead of obsessing over dolls and fashion? Strict adherence to a prescribed or fixed gender role is seen as instrumental to maintaining heterosexuality.

Despite the increased visibility of fluid sexual and gender expressions – prejudice still inheres. We only need to look to our schools for a stark snapshot of this. ‘Writing Themselves In 3’, a 2010 national study about the sexuality, health and wellbeing of same-sex attracted and gender questioning young people, reported that over 60 per cent had experienced some form of physical or verbal abuse.

What is particularly concerning is that the empirical research diverges from the political rhetoric that often romanticises the idea that “things are getting better”. The study notes that there was a gradual increase in abuse in schools over the past decade and, correspondingly, 80 percent of all harassment, discrimination and abuse, happened in educational settings.

So why do we continue to pay lip service to social inclusion, multiculturalism and political correctness when we are still unwilling to end systemic discrimination?

In many states across Australia, faith-based organisations receive broad exemptions to anti-discrimination law. Legal consequences aside, such laws provide moral justifications to bar sexual and gender minorities from claiming equality. For example, a young person at school may be shamed into managing the visibility of their sexual or gender identity, or else they may be expelled.

While we may wish to distance ourselves from organisations that encourage invasive reparative or conversion therapy, our own Australian laws allow some children to be expelled because of their sexuality, making us complicit with a similar, though less visible, logic of bigotry.

By marking out people’s differences and subsequently shaming them for it, whether in a private “ex-gay” therapy group or a public schoolyard, it is hardly a surprise that suicidal ideation and suicide is an endemic problem amongst same-sex attracted and gender diverse people.

Homophobia is not just confined to Australia. Information sharing in the globalising digital age has transformed the way homophobia manifests across disparate communities and geographies. Uganda serves as a stark reminder of the dangers of homophobic zealotry when it is exported as part of a “civilising mission”.

In 2009, sermons from notorious US evangelical ministers in Uganda asserted that homosexuality threatened to undermine the “cohesion of African families”.

By exploiting colonial anxieties about the moral degeneration that comes with non-heterosexual behaviour, an Anti-Homosexuality Bill was introduced. When being gay becomes an offence punishable by death, we cannot ignore the devastating effects of saturating people’s imaginations with fear and stigma of sexual differences.

In light of these circumstances, how can we joke about “ex-gay” therapies, like that encouraged by Exodus International, as idiosyncrasies of the past?

Prejudices against non-heterosexual people are not confined to pulpits or sermons, they pervade our most basic social interactions, and now they come to us with the ease of a download.

Regardless of whether the app is banned or not, we need to think more carefully about how to change the phobias that enabled it to exist in the first place. After all, Exodus International is not alone in hoping that we can all just ‘pray away the gay’.

203 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:12am | 21/03/11

      So you want to promote tolerance by banning other people’s freedom of speech and freedom of association? There’s something wrong with this picture.

    • proud daughter says:

      06:37am | 21/03/11

      One of my parents is gay. It took them until their early fifties to come out. In the intervening years, between the depression, anxiety, and family upheaval, they spent over fifteen years in ex-gay therapy in a misguided attempt to hold the family together. Therapy is such an inappropriate word to explain what they actually endured. Physical and psychological abuse, spiritual warfare, and ultimately financial ruin - weekly therapy over fifteen years runs up to a reasonably large figure. And if weekly therapy doesn’t work, even after fifteen years, then it’s not unreasonable to say that this therapy doesn’t work in the slightest.

      My family will never get those fifteen years back. In truth, it took this parent coming out for both my parents to reconcile fully and become incredibly close. It took this coming out for us as their kids to understand their sacrifices. We love them more for their honesty and strength, and deeply resent that they were unable to come out sooner because these cousin-rooting quacks had their meathooks into them. And now that my parent is terminally ill, and we may never have the chance to reclaim those years, there is no more reasonable feeling to have towards these people other than intolerance.

      I will never forgive those shitty charlatans, and neither should anybody. They have all the scientific clout of homeopaths, the manufacturers of the Power Balance Band, and Scientologists. They exploit families at their most vulnerable, all the while knowing that their methods are unethical, unsafe, and ultimately, ineffective. In a perfect world, this treatment would be outlawed, and with good reason.

      Erick, you’re a jackass for claiming that this is a matter of “freedom of speech”. One side, and one side only, is committed to individual freedom for all persons. The other is steadfastly devoted to ensuring that all people live the way that this group wants them to live - even if this person is a sane adult who isn’t harming the community in any way. That’s not freedom: that’s tyranny.


      (apologies if this posts twice - my internet went down during the first posting)

    • Torin says:

      06:40am | 21/03/11

      my thoughts exactly erick. although, do you have any suggestions as to how we can get around this?
      you cant please everyone… so we need to work out which group we try to please.
      if we create a law (eg allowing gay marriage) then we need to make that law as best fitting to the group as we can.

    • Phil says:

      07:10am | 21/03/11

      Thats what the Gay community is all about, nice double standard isnt it.
      But dont disagree with it or you are labelled homophobic and are part of the problem.

    • DJ says:

      07:19am | 21/03/11

      Exactly. Author should cop it sweet rather than whining about others having views different to his own.

      As an aside, I’m an Aussie who lived in Uganda for some time, my family lives there still. Bugandan and Messisi tribal law forbid homosexuality long ago. It has nothing to do with any sort of ‘civilising mission’. Check your facts or leave your racist tripe at the door.

    • AliceC says:

      07:25am | 21/03/11

      So it’s appropriate to be a homophobe and bigot, as long as you hide behind the ‘freedom of speech’ banner?

    • Markus says:

      08:01am | 21/03/11

      @AliceC, it’s entirely legal to be a homophobe and a bigot, so long as one does not break the law while being either/both.

      Feel free to start a completely voluntary re-education program of your own if you like, just as they have.

    • PaulB says:

      08:07am | 21/03/11

      Try reading the article Erick.  Its the small bits under the big letters and the pretty picture.

    • Kath Grant says:

      08:09am | 21/03/11

      This has nothing to do with freedom of speech Erick.  This is about sanctimonious sticky-beaks who get some sort of thrill out pointing out the sins of others.  They often begin a comment with ‘So’.

    • john says:

      08:18am | 21/03/11

      Here we go again, people can do anything ’ in the name of god ‘.

      The possibilities are endless.

      As long as groups like these are allowed to exist behaving and acting ‘in the name of god’ regardless of which religion, people of all walks of life will continue to die or be tormented.

    • baal says:

      08:42am | 21/03/11

      I did not choose my sexuality. I tried to be straight but it did not work. However even though I am open about my sexuality to my friends and family I pass as straught becuase I am very masculine and society is filled with negative stereotypes about bisexuals. People like exodus make everything worse.
      Freedom of speech my arse Erick. This is hate. This is where violence is born. Until you have been beaten up abused and exiled becuase of something you cannot change then fuck off. These people are like Nazis. They want to exterminate my people and cause us to live in fear.
      Read the article you miserable troll.

    • Gregg says:

      08:58am | 21/03/11

      @ Erick,
      And just where is Raj suggesting the banning of other people’s freedom of speech and freedom of association?
      I never thought putting a question out there was asking for a bann!

    • Chris L says:

      08:59am | 21/03/11

      Pease point out where the author called for a curtailment of the freedom of speech, or for any kind of ban.

    • JT says:

      09:25am | 21/03/11

      I am reminded of a line from The Social Network when it comes to people like you Baal. You might go through life thinking people don’t like you because you are a homosexual, but the truth is, it is because you’re an ar*shole.

      You abuse Erick for his opinion, you equate this insignificant religious group (who really has ever heard of them until today?) with the bloody NAZI’s (I mean FFS!? Nazism!) and you miss the point that this is about freedom of speech. It is that which allows you to spew as much hatred and abuse as Exodus International allegedly does.

    • Barry says:

      09:27am | 21/03/11

      @baal
      I doubt you have ever been beaten up or abused by a religious person though(unless you grew up in a Catholic setting).  That’s my main problem with the article,  it seems like he may be(note I say may) be linking the 60% of homosexuals who had experienced some form of verbal or physical abuse with faith-based organizations.  Most Christians than days are generally quite accepting of homosexuals, maybe not their behaviour as such, but I doubt you would find many religious people out there going around physically and verbally abusing homosexuals in Australia.  At my state school, it was the same kids who picked on me for going to church, that picked on the homosexuals.  I think you would find it is a similar situation in a lot of schools.

    • baal says:

      11:54am | 21/03/11

      My comparison to the Nazi’s was becuase gays and the mentally ill were the first groups to be at first arrested. Then taken away and then killed. I am not an arsehole, I am just so tired.
      I had a preacher push me down a set of stairs when he discovered I was queer. I was exiled from my catholic church group when my secret was discovered. I was beated with a crow bar and lost teeth when I found out. The guy with the crow bar called me a pervert. The concept of pervert is a religous one based on there being a divine order that extends to sexuality. It is this concept of getting rid of people that are perverted or defective that was used by nazis to justify extermination.
      So I fled to a big city and pass as straight becuase I have been really hurt in the past. So when six men put you in hospital becuase of a moral meme descended from monotheistic devotion you might like me get alittle touchy.
      However I use the term nazi in proper historical context.
      It is still not okay to be gay and as a bi sexual I am so misunderstood it is not funny.
      Freedom of speech means I can point out exodus is using the same moral justification that lead to death camps for poofters. So please put up this post

    • Dazeddazza says:

      11:57am | 21/03/11

      Erick, a sincere thank you, saved me the typing time.

    • Ryan says:

      12:00pm | 21/03/11

      I am with Erick on this one, if you don’t like it, don’t download it. Its not like TV advertising where its rammed down your throat, you have to seek out this app, then use your paid for download quota to download it only then to be offended by it.
      Tip to the stupids, just don’t download it!

      By the way, I know of this new offensive computer virus, you can click here to download it http://www.iamathickie.com.au, just go to the section where it says, “download virus that will destroy your computer” then click save, then once its downloaded you have to open the program.
      I mean really!

    • Straight Paul says:

      12:02pm | 21/03/11

      What’s wrong with this picture is the fact a homosexual is a normal human being.  I don’t know anyone who woke up one morning and decided to be a homosexual.
      It is not a choice. It is a fact of life.
      There shouldn’t even be a debate.  There shouldn’t be fear.

    • Keith says:

      01:19pm | 21/03/11

      I invoke Godwin’s law in this situation: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”

    • Smidgeling says:

      02:11pm | 21/03/11

      By allowing people to promote an anti-gay app you are essentially opening the door to discrimination against gays in our community.

      Why do you think acts of racism can be punishable by law under the label of inciting hate and violence?

      If there was an anti-straight app you guys would be crying poor mouth. Freedom of speech was not fought for so people could put down other people for being born a certain way. Our ancestors fought for a country where people could go about their lives without hindrence.

      I mean honestly, what the hell do you think making an app that says “being gay is wrong” does? It makes people grow up believing that being gay is wrong, which adds to the violence and hatred for gay people, making gays ability to have freedom of speech more difficult. Bloody hell you guys are thick. You men make me ashamed to be a straight guy.

    • Erick says:

      02:18pm | 21/03/11

      @ Gregg and Chris L:

      Raj didn’t explicitly advocate the banning of free speech and freedom of association, but it’s implied by his line of argument. He wails about the horridness of the anti-gay app, and laments the failure of efforts to ban it. He blames “information sharing” - that is, free speech - for spreading “homophobia” around the world. The implications are clear: these are bad things that should be stopped.

      As for freedom of association, the author objects to exemptions for religious organisations from certain anti-discrimination laws. Evidently he is in favour of forcing such groups to accept the presence of individuals who they consider incompatible with their beliefs. That is a breach of freedom of association.

      From long experience, I know that while these goals may not be explicitly stated at first, they are the aims of political correctness.

    • Straight Camo says:

      02:33pm | 21/03/11

      Agree with Straight Paul

      I often talk about things like this with my gay mate, cos basically I dont get it. Why do guys when there’s women to be had? I asked him straight up if he thought same-sex-attraction was genetic or choice.

      He says “Why would I choose this? Why would I choose to be picked on thru school and marginalised as an adult? I’ve had women, they interest me as much as guys interest you.”

      So, his choice is limited to what guy he’s with. Like Jake Gyllenhall’s character in Brokeback… he’d be crap at hiding it cos he’d be driven to find someone and take risks to do it.

    • CJ Morgan says:

      02:42pm | 21/03/11

      I’m not in favour of banning the app or the loathsome godbotherers who created it.  Far better to expose them for the bigoted haters they are - all the better as evidence to remove the ridiculous tax exemptions they abuse in promoting this homophobic crap.

      I am, however, constantly astonished by the degree of homophobia evident in so many comments in forums like this.

    • Ryan says:

      02:47pm | 21/03/11

      @Smidgeling: “By allowing people to promote an anti-gay app you are essentially opening the door to discrimination against gays in our community.”
      How does this open the door to discrimination, this app is designed for people to download and pray their gay away. If they download it, then potentially they don’t want to be gay anymore.
      Oh and there are plenty of gay apps on there which using your logic would “open the door to discrimination of the straight community.”

    • Reg says:

      03:38pm | 21/03/11

      Keith..”.I invoke Godwin’s law in this situation:” Since that “law,” is a joke, you are talking crap and promulgating the desire of pro-nazi forces to have discussion of their extremism truncated. Sad that you should fall for their efforts 66 years after the death of Goebbels.  Does this mean you’re a Liberal supporter?

    • Barry says:

      04:53pm | 21/03/11

      @Reg
      I think you might be thinking about it just a tad too much.  Do you even know who Godwin is?  He introduced the law to reduce “the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons”, and in fact wanted people to think a bit harder about the Holocaust rather than trivializing it with ridiculous rubbish comparisons.  For example, Baal comparing Exodus to Nazis cause they want to exterminate “his people”.  It’s a pretty good example why Godwin made the law, and I’m pretty sure Goebbels didn’t have anything to do with . . . . . . maybe you just don’t like Godwin’s law, because it draws attention to pathetic arguments.  Must be a Labor supporter ey?

    • Smidgeling says:

      05:01pm | 21/03/11

      Ryan- do you know what cause and effect are? It doesn’t matter what they say the app is for, it is still anti-gay at its core, which promotes anti-gay sentiment.

      Also, people are born gay. It isn’t something they choose. Making young impressionable people think it is something they can change is going to result in some pretty screwed up people.

      And no Ryan- the gay apps are designed for gay people to use to be gay, as is their choice. There are no apps designed specifically to turn you from straight to gay, which would be considered anti-straight.

      Funny how when a muslim cleric wrote an article saying christian people must be converted to islam all you yobbo idiots were up in arms about it, yet it’s ok for a christian to make an app promoting the conversion of gays. Hypocrisy at its “best”.

    • Rebecca says:

      06:35pm | 21/03/11

      For once I actually agree with Erick. I would actually applaud Apple for being inclusive and allowing different kinds of groups to express their opinions. I personally don’t agree with the app - simple solution, don’t use it.

    • Ryan says:

      07:38pm | 21/03/11

      @Smidgeling: if people are born gay, please point us to the research that shows a genetic marker, I am really interested in this.

    • john says:

      07:45pm | 21/03/11

      @Erik & and all those that agree with him.

      Democratic freedom is a privilege, the golden rule in using it responsibly is not to intentionally inflict harm on any level without justifiable reason.

      Its akin to providing a licence to harm by shielding faith-based organisations with broad exemptions to anti-discrimination law.

      Unfortunately this kind of shielding of these organisations on the internet will accelerate the destruction or diminishment of vulnerable individual human beings regardless of whether they are male/female, gay/str8, etc. This, without your knowledge could be someone close- known to you, and indirectly you share the blame, like it or not.

    • acotrel says:

      07:48pm | 21/03/11

      So what the idiots are saying is that gays should ‘stay in the closet’? - ‘I’m not heterosexual, but I’m willing to learn’ ? Or perhaps they should just all simply become clergy?

    • Aaron says:

      11:10pm | 21/03/11

      You know, I find it really annoying when so many people complain about being discriminated against. Get over it. EVERYONE get’s discriminated against. I’m a white christian male, aged between 18 and 35. Everything I say is either racist, sexist, derogatory, bigotted or in some way offensive, when really, I’m not. Yes, I have opinions, but I don’t view anyone as inferior or undeserving of being treated with respect and dignity, but because of what I am, my views don’t count.

      As for this app. I’ve read a lot of the gay people saying how they’re often discriminated and abused for their lifestyle. Did you ever consider that maybe some people are so sick of that that they want to change? But no, just because YOU don’t see the need, that makes everyone who doesn’t subscribe to YOUR thought pattern a bigot.

      I completely agree with the comment that a lot of the time, people may not like someone, not because they’re gay, but because they’re a jerk. A jerk of any religious and/or sexual orientation and any gender is still a jerk, and honestly, Who likes being around a jerk?

      This comment by Erick is talking about letting people have their own opinions and make their own choices. So some people think that you’re way of life is wrong. Half the western world (or more) think that believing in a God is wrong, and we get discriminated and excluded as a result. The world isn’t out to get you, see that shiney thing in the sky during the day? The really bright one? The world revolves around that, not you.

      So it’s time to let people have their opinions, even if you don’t like it, and may even suffer from it. Deal with it, we all do.

    • john says:

      09:37am | 22/03/11

      @ Aaron “This comment by Erick is talking about letting people have their own opinions and make their own choices.”

      No its not, its giving people a platform, to impose their will on vulnerable people, by target selection and diminish the individual, by implying the individual is a flawed human being.

      Imposing your religious views regardless of beliefs is offensive.

      Religious belief is a personal journey. So is sexuality.

    • Smidgeling says:

      11:02am | 22/03/11

      Ryan- Content keeper stops me from searching for it at work and I’m not going to take up my spare time. Google it yourself- the research is there.

    • acotrel says:

      07:58am | 25/03/11

      @Barry Invoking ‘Godwin’s Law’ in this instance seems to indicate that you are a holocaust denier!  The facts about the Nazis treatment of homosexuals are a documented part of history, and are directly relevant to this discussion.

    • Marian Dalton says:

      06:21am | 21/03/11

      Oh, the old ‘freedom of speech’ argument, favourite of bigots and trolls everywhere.

      This is not freedom of speech. This is about a systemic *wrong* - about enshrining the idea that there is something ‘bad’ or ‘immoral’ about a group for no reason except that they are ‘other’ than you. It’s as senseless as telling your kids to keep away from blue-eyed people, because they’re ‘defective’.

      Worse, it’s downright dangerous. Once a society allows this kind of othering to take place, it gives tacit assent to violence and discrimination on a large scale. And there are plenty of historical examples to show how one follows the other.

      This isn’t about promoting ‘tolerance’. Same-sex attracted people don’t need to be ‘tolerated’, any more than indigenous people do. They are part of society, with all the attendant rights and privileges that accompany membership.

      In short, they are human beings. And they have the right to live their lives without fear of being penalised or attacked for simply being who they are.

    • Phil says:

      07:50am | 21/03/11

      You mean the same bigotry towards straight people for not accepting or being pro-homosexuality or pro gay marriage?

      as you said in your last paragraph,
      “n short, they are human beings. And they have the right to live their lives without fear of being penalised or attacked for simply being who they are.”

      Maybe these people are just being who they are? why cant you accept that? :-p

    • baal says:

      08:45am | 21/03/11

      sexuality is hardwired. Personality is not and belief is not. Simple as that phil

    • Lucius says:

      08:53am | 21/03/11

      Seriously Phil, now your claiming you suffer bigotry because your against gay marriage?

      Have you ever been bashed or assaulted for being against homosexuality Phil? Have you ever been sentenced to death and hanged for being against homosexuality Phil? (yes, this happens in some countries to homosexuals). Have you ever lived your life having to hide who you are from your family, friends and children Phil? Have you ever beenm discriminated in employment because your not homosexual Phil? Have you ever been denied the right to marry your life partner Phil?

      Well Phil, come on, tell us all about the bigotry you’ve had to endure.

    • Phil says:

      10:22am | 21/03/11

      @baal, Prove it. Having had people in a group of friends who were perfectly normal and suddenly “come out” take on all sorts of changes in they way they speak, dressed, carried on while they were “out” to then say oh, sorry im not and go back to being the way they were im very sceptical about it. It seems to be a very large act for quite a few for the attention.

      @Lucius,
      Bigotry isnt just about being bashed or murdered its any difference in opinion from one person to the next where the opinion of one is being forced upon another. Like the issues of gay marriage that are trying to force this country to “accept” as if not you are a bigot.
      But apart from that yes I have, ive been discriminated and harassed in a predominately gay workplace and eventually managed out as I didn’t fit what they wanted (wasn’t gay) This was something that had been mentioned by other staff to me before and confirmed after i’d gone but if I had gone down the line about harassment based on not being gay which to then i was given a decent length lecture about how I have never known harassment as im a white straight male. They basically played the poor gay victim card which always gets pulled out.
      A couple of the staff who I had nothing to do with then made false allegations of harassment (from me apparently) which started the process of being managed out.
      This wasnt the first time at this company it had happened either, doubt it was the last.
      In all of my dealings gay men are the sneakiest, cunning, untrustworthy people ive ever come across.

    • Cate P says:

      11:24am | 21/03/11

      Lucius, I dislike these arguments because they solve nothing, but just pointing out that in many countries both Christians and homosexuals are persecuted in all the ways you mention, and also killed for their beliefs, and the perpetrators not punished.  Prejudice and hate is repulsive and ugly whoever is peddling it.

    • baal says:

      12:11pm | 21/03/11

      @phil.
      I act no different from straight guys accept I am sexually attracted to both genders. I do not know why and wish I was not.
      There are trendy gays out there and honestly I do not understand them. Summertime gays really make it hard on real queers.  In fact as a bisexual I get alot of hate from gay men. I spent most of my life trying to be straight. In the end I just had to accept myself. But if you had a pill that could make me nolonger find blokes attractive then I would swallow it.
      But these exodus dicks just make life harder for people struggling with sexuality becuase they equate it with sin.
      If it turns out my bisexuality is a mental illness then it means it was not my fault.
      Phil. There is a good chance most gays and bisexuals you have met never gay any sign they were queer. We mostly hid. Please do not judge us becuase of a few manipulative queens becuase those queens are the same reason I have nothing to do with the holier than thou gay police.
      I just want people too hate me for the right reasons not becuase of who gives me gives me a boner

    • Ando says:

      02:22pm | 21/03/11

      Phil, what about the KKK, fine by you I assume?. Your posts suggest you believe being Gay is a choice so you are probably unable to comprehend the comparison.

    • Carly says:

      06:52pm | 21/03/11

      @ Phil

      “In all of my dealings gay men are the sneakiest, cunning, untrustworthy people ive ever come across.”

      Wow. Just wow. I don’t judge all men by the actions of one, nor all Indians, nor all Muslims, nor all gay people or any other group.
      With an attitude like that I’m thinking maybe that was the reason you were “managed out”.

    • Phil says:

      07:37pm | 21/03/11

      @Carly, It wasnt just one, its been many. Both managers, co-workers and sadly a friend.
      All with the same bitter angry traits and chip on their shoulder on how the world treats them in such a bad way.
      All have been ones who have “come out” at some stage after being married or in hetro relationships, they then play right in to the stereotype im sure others are trying to avoid.
      It seemed like an excuse for them to get away with the poorest behaviour towards everyone.
      This should not be tolerated.

    • acotrel says:

      03:32am | 22/03/11

      @baal
      ‘But these exodus dicks just make life harder for people struggling with sexuality becuase they equate it with sin.
      If it turns out my bisexuality is a mental illness then it means it was not my fault.’

      Perhaps religous mania is a form of mental illness? So it’s not their fault?

    • biff says:

      06:36am | 21/03/11

      I thought all cultures were equal? Now we learn that Uganda can deal with individuals who are gay by handing out the death sentence. It seems that not all cultures are equal because we don’t have such a policy here in Australia. I think Uganda has a lot of catching up to do and Senthorun would do more good if he took his mission to Uganda and other parts of Africa.

    • Mel says:

      12:30pm | 21/03/11

      Senthorun can also do a lot of good in Australia (as we all can) by arguing against homophobic attitudes and campaigning for gay rights (same sex marriage, etc). I’m sure, Biff, you would join people of good will in trying to achieve equality and fairness, wouldn’t you?

    • proud daughter says:

      06:41am | 21/03/11

      You’re right. As someone who knows firsthand about the evils of the ex-gay movement, it’s not a relic of the past. It shouldn’t even be that - it should not have existed in the first place.

      We allow these movements to have tax-exempt status. Most of them do not hire fully trained or registered psychologists - I know for a fact that the Mercy Ministries centre, when it was still in operation in QLD, had at least one deregistered psychologist on staff. We are rewarding these people with taxpayer dollars for treatment that is unproven and dangerous.

      Ultimately, it ought be banned. But while there are numpties who equate “freedom of expression and religion” with “coercing young people and emotionally vulnerable adults to live their life in a manner which is not appropriate for them”, then we will sadly see no progress.

      Ex-gay therapists are the lowest of the low. I feel no shame or tarnishing of my character to wish that they would die painfully.

    • killerbee says:

      06:43am | 21/03/11

      If either group has a mental illness you would have to lean towards chistians.
      1. They believe in an all seeing, all knowing invisible spirit in the sky.
      2. They think that this all loving, all forgiving spirit will punish people with eternal fire and brimstone for simply not believing in him.
      3. They think the same thing will happen to your child if you don’t sprinkle water on it’s head.
      4. They believe that allowing your child to be blood sacrificed by crucifixion will stop people from “sinning”.

      I could go on for ever but I’m sure you get the picture.

      On the other hand the gay person wants to publicly display their love of their chosen partner by doing what the rest of us take for granted, marry them. Once married they would like to adopt children like every other one of us. They would like their spouse to have the same legal entitlements as the rest of us take for granted.
      They are quite happy for you to be non-gay and never claim that the super gay in the sky will burn you for eternity because you are not gay.

    • ihatenaivety says:

      09:50am | 21/03/11

      I don’t support the App or the views against homosexuality but I do find it funny that people can say what they want about christianity and their beliefs and yet Christian’s can’t say what they want about other groups. People have different views. We don’t agree with them, but just as the homosexuals want tolerance towards their lifestyle, they should show tolerance towards other people’s lifestyle and belief’s as well, no matter how much they disagree with it.

      As an example, I don’t agree with labour, the greenies and a number of other groups, but I also believe they have the right to believe what they want.

    • Lucy says:

      10:36am | 21/03/11

      @ihatenaivety…. Except homosexuality isn’t a ‘lifestyle’ to be tolerated whereas belief systems are

    • fairsfair says:

      10:59am | 21/03/11

      I am not gay, nor am I christian or affilated with any political party. Lucy where is the gay gene? Have they found it? Just like people are “born” gay, a lot of people think that they are “born” christian. You can’t judge or bemoan anyone for that - they don’t view christianity as a state of mind like you have done with your comment.

      ihatenaivety is right - you can’t do exactly what you espose to be all that is wrong in this world to a group of people, just because they are vocal about their own belief systems. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

      People aren’t being forced to download this app. They have to physically choose to look into it. How is that hurting anyone? Leave them alone with their own beliefs.

    • AliceC says:

      11:23am | 21/03/11

      There’s a difference between tolerance for lifestyles (or what is percieved as a lifestyle), and stating a lifestyle is bad, while trying to force people to change. No one is forcing religion to change, just don’t force others to try and ‘stop being gay’.

    • Nafe says:

      01:19pm | 21/03/11

      With your Anti-Christian speal, why would a Gay couple want to Marry? Marrage is a religous ceremony. Religion introduced marrage which the same religion that introduced it stated that marrage is between a man and a woman.

      Why so much hang up in the gay community on marrage?

      What’s wrong with a civil union? Why do you have to use the word marrage? Why such a hang up on trying to change a meaning of the word?

      Civil union is just as good where you can “Unite as one” rather than “get married”

    • Andrew says:

      01:40pm | 21/03/11

      @Nafe Which religion was it exactly that introduced marriage??  I really hope you don’t think it was Christianity, do you??  Marriage was around for thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years prior to the carpenter getting nailed to a cross, and long before the red sea pedestrians escaped egypt.  Pharaoh had wives, you know.  Oh, so did the ancient babylonians, and pretty much all the ancient civilizations, regardless of their (lack of) religion.  Funny how most christians think that our society somehow came from them, yet most of the things they like to claim (law and order, democracy, education, marriage, etc) predated christianity by millinnia, and in fact were all but destroyed once the church came to true power - hence why we call those times “the dark ages”.

    • Tom says:

      09:25am | 22/03/11

      @Andrew and Killerbee, I am unsure why you confined your attacks to Christians. After all, a lot of religions throughout history share beliefs and viewpoints on the existence of a supreme being, the sanctity of marriage and the undesirability of homosexuality.

      In such a context it would seem the height of hypocrisy and cowardice to confine your attacks to Christians. Is it because Christans tend to turn the other cheek whereas religions such as Islam do not take kindly to criticism? Attacking Christianity is a safe thing in your smug, politically correct microcosm whereas attacking other religions could leave you exposed to the usual round of plastic cliches such as “Islamaphobia”. As long as Christians do not fight back, your type will continue to attack them.

      Methinks you are typical cowards and not a whole lot different than the facebook bully.

    • Zeta says:

      06:46am | 21/03/11

      Yes, but can they pray away the rampant and harmful heterosexuality that is ruining my life? Can they make me less flamboyantly straight? Can they make me a faithful partner who won’t twitch everytime he sees a girl in a pair of tight denim shorts?

    • Pieman says:

      07:41am | 21/03/11

      Post of the month, Zeta!

      ROFL

    • Reggie says:

      09:11am | 21/03/11

      Try removing your whale bone corsets and get your husband a pair of tight denim shorts of his own.

    • Michael says:

      02:57pm | 21/03/11

      Love your work Zeta

    • Dark Horse says:

      07:01am | 21/03/11

      I can imagine that mesbians and lesbians will take to this application with the same motivation that heterosexual people would take to a “become a homosexual application”.

      Why don’t these deluded religious people mind their own business?

    • Patrick says:

      07:09am | 21/03/11

      I don’t think the article says anything about banning freedom of speech or association. Freedom of speech and association does not mean freedom from criticism of said speech and association.

    • Reg says:

      08:38am | 21/03/11

      The presumption of the article is that all gay association is evil and it then offers an unproven method of embracing the religious philosophy it espouses. No doubt there’s also a Hillsong app for those given to ostentatious consumption and how to achieve it.

      Senthorur Raj might just as equally be writing this in regard to anyone who does not embrace his beliefs. I could give you an article in the same vein saying why Union association is more important than religion, but, having pre-judged it, most Punchers would collectively slap their hands over your eyes. wink

    • Adam says:

      07:17am | 21/03/11

      I think they want to ban people’s freedom is speech in this case in the similar way they want to ban freedom of speech to prevent the westebro baptist church from protesting at funerals.

    • Sir Ronald Bradnam says:

      07:40am | 21/03/11

      Another group of Sky Fairy believers who think that they have the answers and can cure ‘gay’. They are nothing more than a pack of hypocritical idiots the mere fact that they believe in a supernatural dictator who lives in the clouds and no one has ever seen is proof enough they should be ignored. While they are entitled to freedom of speech to put their opinions across, so am i and everyone else dont forget opinions are like arse….. everybody has one and mine is just as good as yours.

    • Barry says:

      11:07am | 21/03/11

      @Sir Ronald

      “While they are entitled to freedom of speech to put their opinions across, so am i and everyone else dont forget opinions are like arse….. everybody has one and mine is just as good as yours”

      Didn’t you just sorta destroy the first part of your argument?  Hey would should ignore these guys and their opinion, because they believe in God, but everyone should also remember that everyone’s opinion is just as good as the next person’s, and therefore demand the same respect.  Huh?!

    • Sir Ronald Bradnam says:

      11:33am | 21/03/11

      Not at all Bazza they gave there opinion about gays I disagree, no big deal. I also voiced me opinion about there beliefs as they voice theirs, in my opinion Im right and they think they are right, thats the way it is. I dont believe in their Mythological supernatural dictator just like i dont believe in santa or the toothfairy.

    • Kika says:

      01:15pm | 21/03/11

      Yeah but Sir Ronald - who’s downloading the apps? They’re not exactly spam and hitting every gay person with an Iphone. They’re downloaded by people for their own personal reasons. Just like it’s your personal reasons why you don’t believe in the Sky Fairy. I don’t agree with you. But that’s your choice, which is one of the wonderful things about Australia - personal choice.

    • Sir Ronald Bradnam says:

      02:12pm | 21/03/11

      You are correct kika it is personal choice and i would be surprised if there was one person who downloaded this app for the purpose that the idiot group that developed it intended it for. I love the fact that we have the ability to debate without fear in australia and express opinions whilst others have the right to worship whichever omnipresent supernatural dictator they believe is real.

    • malohi says:

      11:13pm | 21/03/11

      That I am afraid is not good enough.
      It is unfortunately not the case that, “you can have your view and I will have mine and we will live in peace”. Because if enough people believe one view (even if tricked into it via mass media or thier own ignorance/vulnerability) it may very well become law and become enforced on the rest of society. (Please refer to climate change tax/ gay marrage/ nuclear power/ tax exemptions for religion etc.)
      SO I would certainly disagree that each persons opinion is just as good as anothers. An educated opinion is better than a sheep bandwagon opinion, but unfortunately people are generaly dumb and easily tricked. Such that now politics is a game of topping womens weekly polls more than betterment and protection of society.

    • Barney says:

      07:47am | 21/03/11

      What is it with the so call religious of this world that they constantly tell
      us how to live our lives , what arrogant bastards

    • PaulB says:

      08:11am | 21/03/11

      Ex-Gay therapies seem based on sublimation and the favoured old religious standby: brainwashing.  They don’t “fix” anything, at best they rely on substituting one behaviour for another in the hope that the new behaviour becomes dominant.  Putting a bunch of nervous Gay men together in a room and telling them not to even think about because the sky fairy will get angry has however not proven very effective thus far.

    • Elphaba says:

      08:37am | 21/03/11

      I believe in freedom of speech, so long as laws aren’t broken, and people are not knowingly expolited or forced (threatened) to agree with the opinions being voiced. I find the ‘pray away the gay’ sentiment to be utterly repugnant, but until they start whacking gays over the head and dragging them to re-education camps, they have the right to have those views - however disgusting I might find them.

      And they are bloody disgusting.  A festering wound on society that I would not hesitate to tell how foul I find them.

    • Lauren says:

      08:40am | 21/03/11

      I’m probably wrong, but I thought ‘Freedom of Speech’ was an American value, not an Australian value…

    • LC says:

      08:59am | 21/03/11

      We may not have freedom of speech in our constitution, but it is still recognized by the high court.

      Oh and BTW freedom of speech and expression are both ingrained into UN’s UDoHR, which Australia is signatory to.

    • Shenanigans says:

      09:19am | 21/03/11

      i heard it was a human right, i must be wrong on that one aswell. Australian values went out the window the day we started listening to anti-gay idiots.

    • Erick says:

      02:42pm | 21/03/11

      Freedom of speech is a universal human right. It is independent of national jurisdiction.

    • Reg says:

      03:54pm | 21/03/11

      Erick; ”  Freedom of speech is a universal human right. It is independent of national jurisdiction.” 

      Who says so Erick? It’s a nice theory that fails immediately one realizes that the freedom to discriminate clashes with the right to be free of discrimination.  No-one has solved this conundrum, which is why the US opts for total freedom of speech unless someone can prove they have been a victim of its influence. In Australian law the problem is avoided by not mentioning it, thus frightening the plebs and leaving the power in the hands of the moneyed class. Even England has done better than that but apparently it’s seen as too dangerous to legislate actual free speech for the convict class. wink

    • AdamC says:

      08:52am | 21/03/11

      I am in two minds about this. I am sure these sorts of ‘straighetning’ treatments don’t work. However, that just leaves them in the same category as homeopathy and reiki massage. And, obviously, gays don’t like being told they have a ‘condition’ requiring ‘treatment’. But, in their particular moral context, these heterosexualisers are trying to help. So their heart are in the right place and they are, in any event, vastly superior to those military funeral picketers.

      There’s a lot going on in this article - activist as writer syndrome manifests itself yet again on the Punch. Suffice to say, I don’t like the writer’s aggressively negative assessment of life for GLBTIs. For example, he talks about ‘systemic discimination’, but his evidence concerms mere schoolyard abuse.

      Zealotry is not a good thing, whether it is politically-correct or otherwise. I think Mr Raj could tone down the intensity of the rhetoric a little.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:47am | 21/03/11

      I feel really stupid just writing “agreed” to a comment that sits well with me, I can’t add to it. At the same time, a really well communicated point should not be ignored. So here it goes….

      agreed.

    • AdamC says:

      11:24am | 21/03/11

      Fairsfair, thank you. 

      (I’ll just have to use that explanation whenever nobody comments on my comments ...)

      Unfortunately, these kinds of articles typically bring out the extremists on all sides of the argument. And the militant atheists, can’t forget them.

    • Interloper says:

      12:29pm | 21/03/11

      I agree also. The definition of a ‘condition’ is in the eye of the beholder. Is homosexuality a ‘condition’? Is left-handedness? Is Down Syndrome? Is colour-blindness? All things over which the person concerned has no control. All affect the way they interact with the world.
      As I understand it, there is a continuum between ‘100% heterosexual’ and ‘100% homosexual’. As someone between the two (albeit closer to hetero), I would love a treatment pushing to 100% heterosexual. The trouble is, the well-meaning treatments out there simply don’t work.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:39pm | 21/03/11

      lol. Pick it up and run with it smile

      The whole issue is a bit tiresome really. It is the same ground covered over and over and over again. People are different - deal with it. I don’t agree with a lot of stuff in this world but I don’t let it affect me. If I was to make it my moral quest I certainly wouldn’t counter the argument with the same type of behaviour that is trying to decry. That seems to be the general public’s MO at the moment - particularly those militant bloody athiests. I have never been so ashamed to be an athiest in all my life!

    • Zates says:

      07:57pm | 21/03/11

      @ Adam C

      “So their heart are in the right place and they are, in any event, vastly superior to those military funeral picketers.”

      I could take a dump that would be vastly superior to those military funeral picketers so that’s not saying much.
      And their hearts are in the right place? If isolating and rejecting someone telling them that they’re completely wrong is “the right place” then I’d hate to see your wrong place!

    • allan says:

      09:01am | 21/03/11

      Apple has just lost me as a customer, I was about to upgrade to the iphone 4 from a 3Gs but not anymore.

    • ihatenaivety says:

      09:53am | 21/03/11

      This app would be allowed on the google app store because they do no checks on what apps go there so perhaps you may want to rethink your strategy. Its also as a result of a single App checker who probably tested the app and put it through rather than a larger Apple conspiracy against the gay lifestyle.

      At least Apple will probably pull the app because people find it offensive.

    • stephen says:

      10:11am | 21/03/11

      For your convenience Mr. Allan, Apple has introduced a ‘gay friendly’ laptop.
      It sits on your lap, (convenient when you have to toggle the modem,er, for better reception, I mean), comes in a range of friendly colours for an easy wipe and screen-size - as per popular demand - is 17 inches.
      (For this last thing, Apple apologizes for any inconvenience)

    • Markus says:

      10:15am | 21/03/11

      Why? The app doesn’t come stock with the phone, you have to actually download it.
      Would you stop using the internet altogether just because it has access to porn?

      There are plenty of legitimate reasons not to buy an Apple product. This is not one of them.

    • LC says:

      09:02am | 21/03/11

      Yet another example of why the world would be better off without religion.

    • JJ says:

      09:05am | 21/03/11

      I was born homosexual. It is how I am, its always been how I am, and it will never change. Articles like this (and the obviously bigoted comments, which are just second-rate trolls), just show that the world and Australia has a long way to go when it comes to equality for homosexual men and women.

      No doubt if there was an application that referred to belief in religion as a “mental illness” that “can be cured”, the conservatives and right wingers would be up in arms claiming religious bigotry.

    • Kika says:

      11:07am | 21/03/11

      Google Richard Dawkins and I’m sure he would have an app somewhere.

    • Chris L says:

      11:58am | 21/03/11

      Very true JJ. Apparently it is freedom of speech to say that homosexuality is unnatural and needs to be fixed but it is censorship to express any disagreement with such a stance or to consider religion itself to be wrong.

      I’m often accused of viciously attacking religion when all I’m doing is referring to a belief system as fiction and pointing out my reasons for seeing it this way.

      I certainly don’t favour banning anything. Then again neither does this article but that doesn’t stop the accusations.

    • Max Redlands says:

      09:12am | 21/03/11

      @Lauren - we have it too but maybe not such a high-powered version.

      From wikipedia

      “A couple of (Constitutional Law) cases decided in 1992 established a new implied right to freedom of communication on political matters. The first case, Nationwide News Pty Ltd v Wills, concerned a Federal provision criminalising the “bringing into disrepute” of members of an industrial relations tribunal, and a prosecution under that provision of a person who had published a newspaper article repeatedly describing such members as “corrupt” and “compliant”. The second case, Australian Capital Television Pty Ltd v Commonwealth, concerned a Federal attempt to ban political advertising on radio and television during election periods and to strictly control it at other times, via a system of “free time” entitlements.

      In both cases, the majority of the High Court reasoned that, since the Constitution required direct election of members of the Federal Parliament, and since moreover the Ministers of State were required to be or swiftly become members of that Parliament, the result was that “representative democracy is constitutionally entrenched”. That being so, freedom of public discussion of political and economic matters is essential to allow the people to make their political judgments so as to exercise their right to vote effectively. Furthermore, since “public affairs and political discussion are indivisible”, it is impossible to limit this necessary freedom to purely Federal issues: it applies also to issues which might be the preserve of the State or local levels of government. Therefore, there is implied in the Constitution a guarantee of freedom of communication on all political matters.

      The constitutional guarantee of freedom of political communication is, prima facie, far more restricted than the generalized guarantee of freedom of speech and of the press in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. But it remains to be seen whether a suitable expansion of the notion of “political communication” may not lead, in time, to a similar result.”

      The question raised then is: what constitutes “political” discussion? On my defintion (thanks HST) “politics is the art of controlling your environment” which leaves pretty much everything up for discussion.

      Our legal reality would seem to be you are free to express your opinions but you must stick to the facts or risk being breach of the laws of defamation and (in commerce) misrepresentation and with the caveat that you must not incite others to illegal acts.

    • Shelly says:

      11:30am | 21/03/11

      Further to your point, Australia is a signatory to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 states:

      (2) Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of article, or through any other media of his choice.

      (3) The exercise of the right provided for in paragraph 2 of this Article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
      (a) For respect of the rights and reputations of others;
      (b) for the protection of national security or of public order, or of public health or morals.

      So I guess a case could be made that the Apple app lacks respect for the rights and reputations of others (i.e. gay people).

    • andre says:

      09:22am | 21/03/11

      There is no need to bring the Christianity and Christian or Biblical values in order to work out that homosexuality is a deviation and unnatural. “Mother Nature” so often ly mentioned in media in association with floods , or evolution, “created” male an female. So homosexuality is unnatural. Great evolutionists like Hitler , understood it very well and condemned homosexuals and other deviants to concentration camp as socially unfit and thus undesired in evolutionary progress for superhuman race.
      Biblically speaking homosexuality is a result of total rejection of God.
      Sin like any other. And because it is a sin , homsexuals never mention Hitler as a enemy but Christians and the Bible.

    • Lails says:

      11:41am | 21/03/11

      Using Hitler as a back up to your argument is probably not going to get your point across…

    • Chris L says:

      12:27pm | 21/03/11

      Any saying that “Mother Nature created male & female and therefore homosexuality is unnatural” doesn’t work any better than saying you shouldn’t pick up an object with your foot because that was made for standing on.

      Animals in the wild often exhibit homosexual behaviour so it’s not just a human thing.

    • HappyCynic says:

      12:38pm | 21/03/11

      First of all I invoke Godwin’s Law which makes your silly rant completely invalid.

      Secondly homosexuality is natural and thirdly it does provide an evolutionary advantage to social animals.

      Finally there is no evidence to suggest the Bible speaks out and condemns homosexuality as we know it today, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 refer to Baal fertility rituals and refer to heterosexuals not homsexuals and since almost all of Leviticus is ignored by Christians these days (especially funny considering Leviticus 26:14-16) it’s fair to assume that Christians should ignore these parts as well.

      Then there’s Romans 1:26-27 which if you read everything from Romans 1:18 to 2:4 deals with idol worship, so it’s safe to assume that these passages also refer to that.  Since homosexuality is not about idol worship then it’s fine according to that passage too.

      Lastly I Corinthians 6:9 and I Timothy 1:9-10 are mistranslated since the word homosexual is only about 100 years old so they can’t be talking about this either.

      So Andre, how do you justify your bigotry?

    • chelle says:

      01:29pm | 21/03/11

      ‘Male AND female he created them’  that would be identifying a 100% male or female as non existant. If it were male OR female i could see your point but it was an AND and not only does it go to show homosexuality as a normal human variation but also shows other variations condemned by the fundys as sinful, immoral and unnatural such as transgender and intersex as part of the plan for us by God.

    • Kate says:

      05:57pm | 21/03/11

      @ HappyCynic - I don’t think we need anything else from andre. He just referred to Hitler as a “great evolutionist” - I think that tells us quite enough…

    • Amanda says:

      11:15am | 22/03/11

      Andre. -

      1st -  Hilters SA ( the henchmen) lead by Ernst Rohm were openly gay and were pretty much tolerated by Hilter till he saw thier power was growing to much and used thier sexual orientation as an excuse to knock them off.

      2nd - The whole mother nature intended it that way is simply wrong where justifying or knocking homosexuality. In nature some adults eat thier young doesnt mean that this what human do,

      3rd HappyCynic - you draw a long bow when you read into the Bible that homosexuality is ok. I have seen this a bit in the blogs and the comments are cut and paste from another blog site. The bible is very clear on it objection to homosexuality and is regarded as a sin. 98 % of biblical and non bibical scholars agree. To say the word homosexuality has only been around for 100 years is clearly wrong and you are trying to twist the truth.

      What the problem of the bible being so open about homosexuality as a sin is what to do with the Christian Bible.  Do we ban it? Ban the speaking out against homosexuality?

    • Gregg says:

      09:34am | 21/03/11

      I think Raj that you are near if not at the core of sexual recognition problems with
      ” What is particularly concerning is that the empirical research diverges from the political rhetoric that often romanticises the idea that “things are getting better”. The study notes that there was a gradual increase in abuse in schools over the past decade and, correspondingly, 80 percent of all harassment, discrimination and abuse, happened in educational settings.

      So why do we continue to pay lip service to social inclusion, multiculturalism and political correctness when we are still unwilling to end systemic discrimination?

      In many states across Australia, faith-based organisations receive broad exemptions to anti-discrimination law. Legal consequences aside, such laws provide moral justifications to bar sexual and gender minorities from claiming equality. For example, a young person at school may be shamed into managing the visibility of their sexual or gender identity, or else they may be expelled. “

      It is probably hard to get a real handle on the views of straight people on gays because most straight people probably can never be bothered to have an in depth and open discussion about their feelings/views on it and more often than not what you do see will be the lip service or anti-gay comments because they have dared to express their view, this article and responses possibly typical if more mild.

      As for the increased abuse in schools, why should we be surprised for school grounds and on students mobiles and various chat sites is rampant with all sort of abuses for whilst we would hope school times are times for learning and many do, there will always be those people in all walks of life who thrive on abuse, bullying, perceived power and the like.
      Going back a few decades or maybe more and many secondary level students would have thought ” gay ” was something about two Kookaburras in the old gum tree.
      Now it is out there in the public domain and small wonder about the actions of students with immaturity when they have supposed adults setting examples for them.

      Along with increases in abuse, it is quite possible that youth suicide is associated, also something I never knew about in my study years but something that did seem to occur at schools of my children.

      And every year we do seem to read of Mary and Anne or John and Joe being banned from an annual school ball or whatever.

      Meanwhile, we will always have religious organisations with whatever message they wish to produce and many people who wish to follow, not much we can do about it I suspect.

    • Zaf says:

      10:17am | 21/03/11

      Way to go Apple!  I’m sure you’ve got the KKK’s Race Pride App in the works.  While you’re at it, why not get moving on Stormfront’s Protocols of the Elders of Zion App too?

    • Aitch says:

      10:20am | 21/03/11

      I find it interesting - though no longer surprising - that Christian groups like Exodus International and any number of religious zealots are obsessed with sex: particularly who’s having it with whom.
      What I find intersting is that, given all the hand wringing from the faithful, the great “sin” of homosexuality didn’t even make it onto god’s top 10.
      * I am the only god
      * Don’t believe in any other gods.
      * Don’t invent any other gods
      * Don’t blashpheme
      * Don’t work on Sundays
      * Be nice to your mum and dad
      * Don’t kill
      * Don’t cheat on your hubby/missus
      * Don’t steal
      * Don’t lie about what your neighbour does
      * Don’t covet your neighbour’s wife
      * Don’t covet your neighbours stuff

      There is no commandment that says, “Don’t have sex with other blokes/gals.”
      Of course, Christians will point to Leviticus and various passages -  particularly in the Old Testament - in which god marginalises the gays he created and even calls for their stoning. But my point is this: Why doesn’t Exodus International develop an app that will help us all stop lying, stealing, killing and perving on our “neighbour’s wives”? These are some of the big sins noted in the 10 Commandments yet there’s no app to address any of them. Surely they’re a greater threat to society. Why is Exodus International instead obsessed with the sexual carryings on of people who are unlikely to believe in their god anyway?

    • Kika says:

      10:39am | 21/03/11

      I’m pretty sure there are thousands of Christian apps out there promoting Christian values (i.e. not lying, stealing, adulterating) etc. But I would say the major ones are the police, the Courts and Jerry Springer.

    • stephen says:

      11:13am | 21/03/11

      @Kika..
      And the frypan.

    • andre says:

      11:35am | 21/03/11

      you got it wrong mate. I do not care what homosexual call their mistargeted love in all shades of brown and who screews who i local public toilets. What I want the government to do is not to teach my kids at school that there is nothing wrong with that , and perhaps if homosexuals would keep their affections and lifestzle a bit more secret. Homosexual rights are celebrated issue. As a taxpayer this issue is not important to me at all. I d rather have celebrated by pollies state of our roads that is a cause of many accidents and unnecessary pain and suffering, or lack of funding for schoos and similar.
      As to your rant against God , it only proves taht the Bible is right. yet again.

    • Aicth says:

      12:39pm | 21/03/11

      ” ... in local public toliets” ?? That’s one vivid imagination you’ve got there Andre. Either that or you really do regualry encounter gay people making “mistargeted” love when you nip into the local public toilet for a good, old fashioned, hetrosexual, god-fearing turd.

    • Mel says:

      12:48pm | 21/03/11

      Andre says “What I want the government to do is not to teach my kids at school that there is nothing wrong with that”.

      So you want teachers to lie to pupils?

    • Kika says:

      10:23am | 21/03/11

      Again, with the Nanny state solutions! Yeah just because ‘some’ people may find it offensive that others believe their way of life is wrong you ban it and force people to embrace their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

      Senthorun you haven’t come out (pardon the pun) to declare what religious background you are. If you are a Hindu then you can hardly exactly say your religion is perfectly accepting to gay people either. India has only really acknowledged that there are gay Indians and are slowly accepting that fact. Islam is also a big religion in India, and that’s not exactly an embracing religion towards homosexuality either.

      Who cares what you believe. Whether it’s pro-gay or anti-gay - does it matter? That’s the benefit of living in Australia - who cares what you believe. Keep it to yourself, and everything is fine. If you go out in the street and start abusing gay people and try forcing them to gay conversion therapy, well that’s not kosher.  An app which you voluntarily download yourself? Isn’t that a right to exercise personal choice?

      You can’t make people believe the same thing as you do. If you personally believe that you will be condemned because you are gay, fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too. If you are gay and want help not to be gay, then what’s wrong with downloading an app to help you? What’s the difference in that and any other self help rubbish.

      I don’t exactly see people being stoned here by angry mobs because they are gay. Otherwise there would be no such thing as Mardi Gras. Frankly I’m so sick of people wanting Australia to be even more of a nanny state than it already is.

      If you are gay and have a problem with everything go live in a country like Malaysia or Iran. Or even try Norway. Australia is pretty good to you.

    • StefanR says:

      11:38am | 21/03/11

      “If you go out in the street and start abusing gay people and try forcing them to gay conversion therapy, well that’s not kosher.”

      How about if you create a culture where you say that they are sick and defective and then offer them a ‘cure’?

      “Again, with the Nanny state solutions!”

      The same people who decry the nanny state don’t seem to mind us increasingly becoming a bully state… so long as they aren’t the ones being bullied.

      “If you are gay and have a problem with everything go live in a country like Malaysia or Iran. Or even try Norway. Australia is pretty good to you. “

      The article talks about problems within Australia. Removing these problems will make Australia a better place. Are you opposed to making Australia a better place?

    • Huey says:

      10:24am | 21/03/11

      An App to cure religion? That is what the world needs! Nature or Nurture? Gay= Nature/ Religion = Nurture, we need a cure.

    • Luce says:

      10:41am | 21/03/11

      There’s enough pain and suffering in this world without people intentionally inflicting it on each other. Live and let live…

    • JT says:

      11:06am | 21/03/11

      It never ceases to amaze me that when vitriol and hate is expressed by an organisation such as this, the vitriol and hate expressed in returned is often exponentially greater than that expressed originally. We have just 54 replies to this column and these are some of the responses from those attacking this group.

      ‘‘proud daughter: That’s not freedom: that’s tyranny.’’ equates their philisohy with tyranny as though is it equal to people freely joining this group that she disagrees with.

      “baal:These people are like Nazis. They want to exterminate my people and cause us to live in fear. Read the article you miserable troll.’‘

      Baal equates them to NAZIS! ffs and labels Erick a miserable troll.

      ‘‘Marian Dalton:Oh, the old ‘freedom of speech’ argument, favourite of bigots and trolls everywhere.’‘

      Marian dismisses opposing opinions as hiding behind the ‘‘freedom of speech’’ argument. Marian seems to forget that that guarantees the right to her bigotry and trolling the same as those she attacks.

      ‘‘proud daughter:Ex-gay therapists are the lowest of the low. I feel no shame or tarnishing of my character to wish that they would die painfully.’‘

      In probably the worse example, proud daughter wishes these people to ‘‘die painfully’‘.

      Then of course we have the usual anti-Christian comments from

      ‘‘Killerbee
      If either group has a mental illness you would have to lean towards chistians.
      Dark Horse
      Why don’t these deluded religious people
      Sir Ronald Bradnam
      Another group of Sky Fairy believers
      LC
      Yet another example of why the world would be better off without religion.’‘

      Does it not occur to those I have quoted, that you become as guilty as this group you attack by expressing the same (and worse) vitriol and hatred?

      Freedom of speech isn’t simply about expressing your opinion, it is having the freedom to choose to express, counter and ignore any opinion you choose without suffering for it. It protects you by giving you that freedom. The moment we start introducing special rules for special groups is the moment we take away that freedom.

    • Matt says:

      03:18pm | 21/03/11

      Like marriage?

    • LC says:

      08:03pm | 23/03/11

      “Freedom of speech isn’t simply about expressing your opinion, it is having the freedom to choose to express, counter and ignore any opinion you choose without suffering for it. It protects you by giving you that freedom. The moment we start introducing special rules for special groups is the moment we take away that freedom.”

      So basically, if we introduce gay marriage we lose freedom of speech?

      Yeah, right, sure.

    • TracyH says:

      11:18am | 21/03/11

      Clare’s post if by far the most thought provoking…

    • Blackie says:

      11:19am | 21/03/11

      Brainwashing is a lazy way to explain people who hold “dangerously” different views to the ruling loudest voices in a culture. Many contributors here are saying “we know it doesn’t work” - know we don’t - we have been told so, by polemical columnists and the odd story of failure - on this basis AA and NA should be shut down because many who join up don’t manage to kick their habits. But many of my friends lives have been saved through NA.
      I don;t know exactly what to make of the Exodus movement but i have actually read some of their material and the serious psychiatric work it is based on. I have met men who do claim to have been changed for decades by applying, and their wives.
      They only ever offer to help people who come to them with what they call “unwanted same sex desires”.  We may have been taught not to allow people to want to change, we may have been indoctrinated that people can;t change, but maybe we are wrong. It is possible. And few of us have studied either side, we have simply been told stuff by media mouths and that is hardly a basis for informed and kind discussion.

    • AliceC says:

      11:27am | 21/03/11

      But why do we want homosexual people to change? How does homosexuality hurt society?

    • Matt says:

      12:39pm | 21/03/11

      Care to name any success stories?  How about doing some research into ‘turning homos straight’?  Did you not know about the electric shock aversion treatment in the 50, 60 & 70’s?  If a few hundered volts can’t change someone, what good will a couple of christians gathered under a full moon chanting around a fire do?

      And you talk of brainwashing - what about the millions of christians who are regularly brainwashed into thinking homosexuality is wrong? God made homosexuality, sure as hetrosexuals make homosexual babies.

    • Daniel says:

      12:58pm | 21/03/11

      Like all things religious, it’s all about using fear to control.

    • Blackie says:

      01:26pm | 21/03/11

      G’day Matt
      I think you will understand that my friends in Sydney would rather not have their sexual life revealed by on a web-site - especially since he has been the victim of very aggressive attacks when he has spoken in public about his own journey and life change. I think Sy Rogers is happy to be named and you can check up his long term story on web for yourself. That we are never allowed to hear their stories on our media is probably a story in itself, in terms of how our media educates us by only giving one side of many controversial stories.
      Actually Matt if you read what i said more slowly, I think the use of brainwashing is a silly lazy, inaccurate way to talk of those who differ from the ruling orthodoxy (which in our culture seems to be that anyone who raises any question for whatever reason about homosexuality is a homophobic bastard)
      I have quite often gone to various churches and they hardly ever talk about homosexuality.
      Your statement about “if volts cant” etc just shows you have no real idea about the history of horrors inflicted on all sorts of people and conditions by psychiatry, ususally well intentioned but useless. The idea that if X failed then something else must fail shows no serious attempt to see how our treatment of all sorts of conditions has moved form horribly worng to better. No doubt in the future people will look at what we do and shake their heads.
      I am not defending Exodus etc to engage in silly send ups about full moons seems to indicate a fear of really treating people we don;t agree with with respect - that is what real tolerance is about - its abotu how you treat people you disagree with

    • blackie says:

      02:29pm | 21/03/11

      Daniel - that sort of one simple put down covering the huge diversity of religious beliefs and motivations and personality types might function to make you feel better and above all “religious” people, but it would never be taken seriously by people who have actually spent some time studying some of the many diverse reiigions and the billions of people who might be covered by “religions” and religious.
      And you don’t think that the anger poured out on many who dare to argue the minority position on sexuality (eg that sexual intercourse between anyone not married is wrong) might be a use of fear to silence dissent by the non religious?

    • Matt says:

      03:03pm | 21/03/11

      Try again Blackie - Sy Rogers wasn’t homosexual but transgender - a completely different bucket of fish..  No one cares about their stories as they often turn out to be untrue, as in this case, not to mention the fact they’re completely not news-worthy…  Are you with your friends 24/7?  You’re not, so how do you know what they get up to in private?  I used the ‘chanting’ line to point out the compelte ridiculousness of your arguement about AA and NA - homosexuality is not an addiction, it can’t be cured, it’s who you are not what’s in you. 

      If you think it’s so easy just to switch and change, could you be ‘programmed’ to be homosexual?

    • blackie says:

      03:25pm | 21/03/11

      OK Matt Blackie will try again. You do need to listen or read or listen to Sy a little more carefully. HE was certainly homosexual - but like friends of mine form Gay community, realised he was never going to fing the monogamous long term love of a man he was looking for, so he decided to become a woman because at least he was a chance of finding long term love with a man etc. So, with respect, you are simply mistaken abotu Sy’s history.
      If you are going to dismiss everyone’s story that disagrees with your beliefs ....what is that? DO you show such total scepticism abotu every story you hear, say form someone telling you there story of being gay - no, of course not - This line is just a cheap debating trick to avoid nasty facts that dont fit. Do check St out more, he has ben public for decades and has ben under very constant scrutiny, atack and smears that have been discredited. I have other friends as imentioned but unlike Sy they are not on the net so i feel unfree to reveal their story - i’m pretty sure you’ll understand that.
      My NA thing wa, ONLY about the fact that people failing to benefit form a program does nto invalidate the program - i was not oat all suggesting a parallel between addiction and Gays. You’ve gotta read more carefully.
      Homosexuality is not “who you are” any more than me being hetero is who i am - its an important part of who a person is in parts of their life.
      I ake no credit for being hetero - i didn’t choose it any more than my friends who find themselves attracted to same sex. But despite it not being allowed to be said - all the engineering of the sex organs etc is pretty clear abotu the way things are “meant:” to be. I have no idea of i could be programmed to be homosexual. My friends who have actually changed dealt with the very early psychological isues that led to that orientation. I think the people who have changed are news-worthy though ignored - much more newsworthy than nude pictures of footie players etc of has Jennifer put on a kilo etc

    • Matt says:

      04:29pm | 21/03/11

      Ooooh ok, I get it now, it’s ok to be homosexual on the inside - just have a sex change operation to become a woman so I can love a man and society can be ok with that.  Well, thanks Blackie, that makes sense - society can deal with homosexuals as long as one has a sex change to become a woman.  Really?  Did you read your own comment, or even THINK about it as you were writing it?!?!  You’ve actually succeeded in proving my and a lot of other people point about bigotry as well as sounding like an idiot…. Well done.

      I’d like to point you to your own words -

      I ake no credit for being hetero - i didn’t choose it any more than my friends who find themselves attracted to same sex.

      So you admit people don’t choose to be homosexual or heterosexual yet you still think it’s not normal?  Brainwashed much?

    • Dan says:

      11:51am | 21/03/11

      Really…....the gay people are worried about an “app”  because it will turn them straight !!  hahahahahaha.

      Gay people need to move on and not let this crap get to them so easily.

      >>  Play the victim and you will BE the victim <<

    • Luce says:

      12:45pm | 21/03/11

      Missing the point there a bit, Dan. Its the bigotry behind the app, the persisting belief in some that homosexuality is wrong, which gay people find offensive.  Its not about being a victim, its about being recognized as having equal rights, which currently is not the case.

    • Roger says:

      08:04pm | 21/03/11

      @ Dan

      Sweet, so the Jews really brought it on themselves hey?

      Get real.

    • progressivesunite says:

      11:55am | 21/03/11

      Poor straight folk - can’t even say that you hate gays without the political correctness police descending on you….

      Seriously, that’s what these “ex-gay” therapists are about - it’s not “freedom of speech” that they’re after, it’s the removal of gays and lesbians from society. You take a gay person who is suffering from living in a homophobic environment, or even just uncomfortable and confused about being in a minority group, and you twist them and contort them until they’re “cured” of their “illness” at horrendous psychological cost because you’ve made them someone that they’re not - the only illness here is homophobia. There are parents in the US who take their teenage children to these people! It’s child abuse….

      If you truly think that there isn’t homophobia anymore, and you’re not homophobic, you just have “different views”, then look at your child and say to yourself “gee, little X might be gay” - if that doesn’t bother you then you’re not homophobic. If it does, then you’ve got a long way to go….

    • Matt says:

      12:41pm | 21/03/11

      Well said..

    • Conservatives Unite! (AdamC) says:

      02:17pm | 21/03/11

      There have been deprogramming services for gays for some time. There are two grounds for disliking them. The first is that they don’t work or, at least, have not been demonstrated to work. On the other score, they are in the same boat as tarot card reading or aromatherapy. I don’t see people getting as worked up about those. That leaves us with the second reason, which is political aversion.

      I don’t believe homosexuality is an illness that requires curing. Neither do the gay movement. Obviously, the ‘ex-gay’ movement does. However, they are entitled to offer their services, provided they don’t make medical or scientific claims, and gay men and women who are unable to come to terms with themselves are allowed to make use of them. At the end of the day, this is just another case of credulous people offering snake oil solutions to other credulous people.

      And, final point, Progressivesunite, there are reasons for not wanting to be gay (or not wanting one’s children to be gay) that are not based upon homophobia. The heterosexual lifestyle has lots of attractions, much of the gay marriage push is based on this.

    • progressivesunite says:

      02:45pm | 21/03/11

      Such as (Adam C)? Name 2 aspects of the “heterosexual lifestyle” that gay people don’t have access to and would turn straight for, rather than seeking to obtain access to but remaining gay? (you metion gay marriage, but isn’t that an example of a straight lifestyle that many gays want, and want gay access to, not access to only by turning straight?).

      And these ex-gay groups do make scientific and medical claims! It’s all based on how gay people are ‘stunted’ at adolesence and have some ‘gender disorientation pathology’ that causes gays to be gay rather than normal (as they’d put it) - and I still think gay people who can’t come to terms with themselves should be helped to do so, not to try to make themselves something they’re not just to “fit it” - it’s not fair on them. I think it’s society with the problem….perhaps I should really be “radicalsunite”.....

    • StefanR says:

      03:22pm | 21/03/11

      @AdamC The stigma attached to homosexuality aside, what is this ‘heterosexual lifestyle’? Monogamy? Children? These are available to gay couples albeit with some difficulty. Progressivesunite is correct in saying that any reason a gay person does not want to be gay is because of homophobia; not necessarily their homophobia but that the culture that has created this stigma on homosexuality. That groups like Exodus exist is proof that homophobia is alive and well as they rely on this pervasive cultural message of ‘gay is bad’ to get paying customers.

      I also reject the notion that this is a transaction between equal parties. These groups propogate homophobia which drives the misery that gay people feel about being gay and then offer them a ‘cure’ for a price. That is predatory and exploitative.

    • Conservatives Unite! (AdamC) says:

      03:24pm | 21/03/11

      @Progressivesunite, on your first point, I agree that many gay people want access to aspects of the heterosexual lifestyle while remaining as gays. But, with all frankness, gay marriage is merely a counterfeit of straight marriage. Even the terminologies and motifs are the same. Is it so hard to believe that some gays may prefer to ditch their gayness in favour of the genuine article if they really had the chance - or, in other words, if straightening actually worked. So, to strictly meet your two things challenge: marriage and babies (conceived the old-fashioned way).

      And, on point two, there is a difference between a pseudo-science theory and making false medical claims. What I was referring to were claims like: “Two out of three people who completed our course stopped being gay” when those claims are false or have not been verified. Pu another way, the same standards should apply to these guys as to any other charlatans preying on the desperate.

    • Hamish says:

      03:50pm | 21/03/11

      Progressivesunite, you do realize that forcing people who aren’t happy with being gay to not try these types of services is a complete attack on their rights, don’t you? It is basically the same as forcing them to use one of these kinds of de-programming services. If there are unhappy gay people out there who want to use such services they should be allowed to. I wouldn’t recommend it, but it’s their choice.

      As AdamC says, I may be upset that my child is homosexual, not because I think it makes them any worse of a person, but because, for instance, they won’t be able to have children in a traditional way which is a perfectly reasonable thing for a parent to want for their child. And they’ll have to spend a lot of time in gay nightspots, which I can’t imagine even the average gay person would like all that much (I mean seriously, just because you’re all gay doesn’t mean you don’t have to wear shirts…or pants for that matter).

      To be fair there are also certain advantages to being gay, such as not being able to get married for one…

    • David says:

      02:07pm | 15/08/11

      @Adam C

      I object to your assertion that Ex Gay therapy is no different from Tarot Card Reading or Aromatherapy. The first two harmless curiosities, but Ex Gay therapy is psychological abuse that fucks up peoples’ lives.

    • CC says:

      12:37pm | 21/03/11

      The real problem lies in the loss of free expression not in “who has the right to believe or tell me I’m wrong”  If we allow the law to dictate what we can believe or say we all lose in the end.  The freedom to express an opinion is what sets us apart from nations that don’t allow that freedom.  Is that what we truly want to have all our beliefs, behaviours and lives completely contolled by a law?  If I lose the ability to express my opinion freely then why should others be allowed to express their opinion that has been sanctioned by a governing body?  Once we give it away we can never get it back.

    • Wilma J Craig says:

      12:56pm | 21/03/11

      Not that I was there - but almost - it is said that when that dotty old witch Queen Victoria ( they still had a smidgin of power in those days as opposed to being just another UK tourist attraction) was presented or advised that the inane bloody government of the UK decided to introduce it’s bigotted, stupid laws against homosexuals when she read the proposed Bills because she did not believe that females could have a sexual relationship with another female she asked to old fool of a Prime Minister to change the Bill to target males only! As a result the legislation presented & passed by those old fools in the British Parliament excluded females!
      Having been screwed stupid - wasn’t it 8 children to prove it - by that randy German, Albert, & then by the equally randy Scot, John Brown it just goes to show how penis-oriented she was.
      Who really cares what that allegedly Christian organisation Exodus ( I thought there was also a Euthanasia mob with the same name) thinks they can do. You can’t “cure” homosexuality just as you can’t stop people being left-handed (me). These brain-washers are just that. Sick, dangerous men & women who know nothing. They have done untold damage to many people, that are responsible for driving many others to commit suicide. They have utterly destroyed many loving families - heterosexual & homosexual.
      I have a perfectly normal, honest, decent, law-abiding. successful loving, generous &, above all, Compassionate homosexual grandson whom I adore. He has known since he was pre-pubescent what he was. He has a loving, caring family who accept him totally. The only time anything was said was that his parents, yes, including his bricklaying father, hoped he would not be lonely in his old age. As he said to them there are millions of elderly & old heterosexual people who are lonely & he would just have to accept that possibilty. He has been in a solid relationship for 28 years - & that, as we all know, is something many heterosexual couples fail to achieve!
      How many of those within this Exodus organisation can state, in typical US style, hand-on-heart, that they have never interfered sexually with their sons or daughters? How many have verbally & mentally abused their children?How many have set out to deny their children their nature? How many of their children have ended up killing themselves as a direct result of the behaviour of their parents?

    • Colin says:

      01:24pm | 21/03/11

      I have no patience for homophobes. Such people who have replied to this thread show the same old ignorance. Prove your opinions with science. You know, that stuff called ‘empirical evidence found in nature’. When you do look at the science, you might actually get educated about your homophobic beliefs and why they exist, and - most importantly - how they are incredibly wrong.

    • blackie says:

      02:37pm | 21/03/11

      Colin - can you alert me to the empirical science that you are obviously aware of that proves your point. Not just general rant abotu “We all know it has been proven - but some specifics)  I presume homphobes is a way of talking about anyone who dares to disagree with you and the dominant voices in our culture (ie hollywood, our media SMH ABC SBS Commercial TV Rolling Stone etc etc). I know many people who love and work with homosexuals but who think, say for example anal intercourse is not a good thing, who are not in the least afraid of homosexuals, so they are not homophobes.
      Its like calling all non muslims - Muslimophobes or all non christians Christian-ophobes. Its just not true that there are only two positions - People who agree that homosexuality is a great thing and all others are frightened of it - real life is so much more complicated - but the division of the world into wise kind pro-homosexuals and bastard homphobes is very convenient.

    • Peter Simmons says:

      01:30pm | 21/03/11

      Try walking hand in hand with a same sex person in Teheran or Islamabad and see how rants against “homophobia” go.
      Christianity won’t look so bad then.

    • Caitlin says:

      08:13pm | 21/03/11

      @ Peter Simmons

      And I would be stoned to death for being a woman who didn’t wear a headscarf in some countries too.
      How about you try to make a relevant point?

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      01:31pm | 21/03/11

      I don’t know if I’m queer or not.

      Horizontally I love females but can’t cop many of them for more than 30 minutes otherwise.

      Men can talk generally on any topic whereas any female that attracts me physically (under 25 y/o/a, slim and beautiful) can only talk about themselves. Men do interesting things and shout drinks in turn. Women despite ‘equal rights’ expect to keep their pursed tightly closed. Women who attain high places see it as their duty to replace male staff with females even if it kills the business.

      But seeing males acting like women leaves me cold.

    • Luce says:

      02:21pm | 21/03/11

      Wazza, same applies for males and females: the ones you will actually enjoy talking to are generally not the beautiful people.

    • big louie says:

      02:34pm | 21/03/11

      Mate, you probably aint a queer, just keeping the wrong company. Get your arse into gear, forget about the under 25 fantasy, (but you don’t say how old you are, you could be 12), get a job as a brickies labourer, and you’ll soon find out who you are, even if there are queer brickies labourer workmates. The point is, if you do what men are made for, physical work, (not f*****g gym “work’‘) , which relates to physical strength, which relates to male hormonal increases, you’ll come to a realisation of who you are, and hence, a path to what you can do for yourself. Get your brain off your alleged problem, to give yourself an even chance. Another thing, if you’re trolling here for a contact, I’ll kick your arse till your nose bleeds, make no mistake.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      03:15pm | 21/03/11

      I don’t know if you’re queer, but I do suspect you are stupid.

    • bec says:

      04:16pm | 21/03/11

      I would suspect that females of any age would have difficulty copping you for more than thirty seconds, Wazza…

    • David says:

      09:30pm | 21/03/11

      Thats funny. LOL.

    • Jasonb84 says:

      02:00pm | 21/03/11

      Im gay. People who choose to believe that being gay or lesbian is a choice only do so because its then easier for them to act in a prejudiced manner towards homosexuals. Also alot of people seem to think to know about homosexuality, but in reality all they do is prove that they know very little with there ignorant comments, and you only need to view some of the comments on this website as evidence.

    • Michael says:

      02:30pm | 21/03/11

      As a gay man, I can honestly say that an app like this does not make any difference to me. I dont have to download it, I dont have to agree with what these people are preaching, nor do I have to even deal with hearing it.

      Freedom of speech is just that, freedom. This will be a never ending battle of the extremists on both sides, volleying back and forth between each other with slander, outrageous claims and disgusting behaviour.

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone should be able to voice that opinion without fear of being hurt, but you have to expect that everyone is not going to agree with it.

      So this app will stop me from being “a gay”? well good on those who want to try. maybe being gay didnt work for them.

      Its all a matter of, download/watch/listen/read to what you want to. no one is forcing you do it. I dont think anyone is forcing the christians to download Grindr?

    • GregH says:

      02:50pm | 21/03/11

      “Major medical and psychological associations have rejected the use of reparative therapies ..such as..  providing peer-support networks to enforce the boundaries of ‘appropriate’ interaction between people of the same and opposite sex.”

      That is going to be a bugger for the Feminists who try to use males to shame males, White Ribbon ring a bell?

      Go to a religious school and you can be expected to be held to that religions principles, don’t like it then go elsewhere.  It would be like going to Fernwood only to complain there are no males.

      80% of bullying occurring in the school system where if you are gay or have freckles you can be isolated out for teasing… Kids are pretty much the largest group of almost sociopath’s there are on earth.

    • Carly says:

      08:17pm | 21/03/11

      @ Greg H

      And when a religious school pays its own way without accepting any exemptions or funding from the government that ALL Australians (including homosexuals) pay taxes for, then they can go ahead and exclude who they like.

    • JJ says:

      03:19pm | 21/03/11

      Would you want the Church to promote the opposite then? Sort of like living in the closet isn’t it not being true to your beliefs?

      The double standards in these arguments are stark and common.

      Have you cared to think that maybe there might be a man or women out there that are genuinely confused about their sexuality? Maybe it is a deep rooted problem for them. Shouldn’t they have access to help if they want it? As far as I can see it’s a valuable service this organisation offer that could save families from breaking down.

    • proud daughter says:

      04:19pm | 21/03/11

      No. These organisations are not staffed by impartial, trained, and compassionate professionals who aim to help people work through their sexual identity issues. Psychologists are already amply capable of doing this.

      Ex-gay ministries offer nothing of value to anybody. They are staffed by the untrained and the professionally disdained. They simply exist to make money off people’s suffering.

      These aren’t valuable services. My family broke down *because* of ex-gay ministries, and only healed once we got our relative away from their psychotic lies.

    • michael j says:

      03:40pm | 21/03/11

      Well when it comes / to pushing /?????
      there are experts on this ALEXANDER THE GREAT
      but when it cums to teaching school kids
      there are different ways to get their jollies
      and anything is acceptable well
      yours can all get f—-ed

    • Joel says:

      03:50pm | 21/03/11

      I have no problem with people being for or against homosexuality. Personally it doesn’t bother me a great deal. I think however the biggest act of bigotry lies in the marriage act. Here is a piece of legislation that is based on what is dictated as marriage in the bible. Despite this being unconstitutional (government can not legislate in respect to religion), it openly states that marriage must be between a man and a woman.

    • blackie says:

      04:56pm | 21/03/11

      Joel, i think your argument is mistaken and simplistic, sorry to be so blunt and possibly rude. It is not at all that its in the Bible. Just abotu every culture known to anthropologists has some clear central special place for the union of a man and a woman as the basis of social and family life. eg asian cultures (hindu, buddhist, confusian etc etc) tribal cultures (NG, africa, celtic etc). to say nothing of islam etc
      Our society is rushing into unknown waters - we may be right, we are probably not, it seems typical of the arrogance of our culture that we think a view we have just come up with is self evidentally right - and especially since all the main voices that teach our culture - journalists, entertainment (hollywood) etc have been “teaching and preaching this to us for a whole 30 years.
      it is just simplistic to “blame” it on the bible

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      03:56pm | 21/03/11

      Fine Luce & big Louie, I appreciate your sentiments but with me at 70+ one partner would have to do the action bit; hence young & slim. And with my eyesight—- well, at night all cats are grey so there are no ‘uglies’ out there as far as I’m concerned. One day though, the opportunity just might arise and if so my wife would be first to agree I could need some help.

      Yes Luce, you are right on; conversation wise but I steer clear of oldies. Most of them are as boring as me.

      Workwise I have a lot to do observing young peoples attitudes and finding more and more young males going queer.

      Why? Well my theory is the men are getting scared of women. We are so vunerable now with all the laws heavily loaded in female favour. Spend a fortune coersing a girl into bed and she gets contrary or just plain bitchy and you could land in jail.

      Lucky for me I met and married when women were women.  Fifty years on and very happy I feel sad for the poor young bastards out there now.

    • PaulB says:

      03:58pm | 21/03/11

      All this angst is over an iphone “app” (stupid term)?  Exodus has managed to generate ex-ex-gay support groups in the US, and possibly here too.  That’s quite an achievement.  Its a pity so many tax-free American pastors don’t seem to take their own sermons seriously when it comes to their own sexual choices and behaviour.  This app will likely be taken on by the sexually confused and lost, who hopefully work out what a snake oil sham it is before it pushes them to a suicide attempt, or it will be duly ignored and forgotten with every other passing brainfart from the lost world of brainless American christianity.

      And still Erick lives in terror at the possibility that somewhere someone is having a good time.

    • You're all clutching at straws says:

      04:18pm | 21/03/11

      If it was natural, homosexuals would be able to procreate. And as for the excuse that it must be natural because animals partake in it: animals don’t know any better, just like when they murder other animals for fun, or have incestuous relations with their own young, they simply don’t know any better because they have no moral code. There is a great divide between animals and the morally enlightened human species.

    • Two Mummies says:

      04:40pm | 21/03/11

      It may have escaped your notice but homosexuals are born of straight parents and its been that way since the dawn of time. If it was so ‘unnatural’ you’d think that gay people wouldn’t be born and that they would just die out according to darwinism. But we’re here and we’re queer and we’re a hell of a lot more enlightened than people like you.

    • kate says:

      11:55am | 22/03/11

      ‘Cause it’s, like, soooo “natural” to use a computer…

    • Waynevan says:

      04:19pm | 21/03/11

      Exodus International exists to help people that the writer and many commenters here would like to think don’t exist. The many people who experience same-sex attraction and believe for any reason (faith-based or not) that this is not right. Nobody is coercing anybody to do anything, let alone download an Iphone app. It’s simply a way for an organisation to make it’‘s services more available to people who seek them.
      For years when Christians have complained at the content of TV shows we’ve been told “If you don’t like it don’t watch it.” Now it’s “if you don’t like it don’t download it.”

    • Waynevan says:

      04:19pm | 21/03/11

      Exodus International exists to help people that the writer and many commenters here would like to think don’t exist. The many people who experience same-sex attraction and believe for any reason (faith-based or not) that this is not right. Nobody is coercing anybody to do anything, let alone download an Iphone app. It’s simply a way for an organisation to make it’‘s services more available to people who seek them.
      For years when Christians have complained at the content of TV shows we’ve been told “If you don’t like it don’t watch it.” Now it’s “if you don’t like it don’t download it.”

    • Alistair says:

      04:28pm | 21/03/11

      Just goes to show that the whole Mosque/Sharia debate in the US is just key jangling. By the time the Christian Right is finished with them they will probably be begging for Sharia Law.

    • Get Bent says:

      04:43pm | 21/03/11

      Christian bashing again….
      How about we do some poofter bashing on here for a change…
      This is getting tedious.
      You don’t like the app…DON’T DOWNLOAD IT.

    • DW says:

      08:28am | 22/03/11

      Why you take this as Christian bashing is completely beyond my comprehension.  The problem here has nothing to do with being Christian, and everything to do with the fact that these people try to get away with trying to “sell” something that often does way, way more harm than good.  The fact that most/all of these groups are Christian I feel is somewht coincidental.

      Freedom of speech is one argument that these people can use, but that is also coupled with the responsibility to use it wisely.  If there is evidence suggesting there is a strong possibility that somebodies right to free speech is going to cause somebody else harm, then the right thing to do is to make sure these people get called on it and have the issue debated and dealt with.  This is not curtailing someone’s freedom of speech - this is simply using a bit of commonsense to deal with the situation responsibly.

    • Frank Davie says:

      04:50pm | 21/03/11

      Thanks Raj,you brought the ‘freedom of speech when we say so ’ motley crew out with handbags flaying.When the weirdos and bigots from the cult of the realians and the gay community protested the popes visi,t freedom of speech was so hip and vogue,now some bunch of loonies have posted a video and the *KAPPOW*........its not freedom of speech ~  its bigotry. I really wish the victim playing bigots of the so called special interest groups would come down off the cross (pun intended) and grew a back bone. Repeat after me ’ Gay is not victim’  ~ repeat ad-nauseaum.

      P.S - Islam and gay hatred anyone ? Nah didnt think so…..!!!!

    • Ryan says:

      07:42pm | 21/03/11

      What the? Please explain!

    • Johan says:

      04:52pm | 21/03/11

      They can say this rubbish, but my comments would be moderated even if only half the things I want to say about these loonies.

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      05:15pm | 21/03/11

      I’m tall, I’m TALL I’m 5 foot 3 and VERY tall!

      Say it enough and YOU might believe it.

      Two mummies, you can say your’e happy but deep down————-

      You are a victim of an unnatural upbringing with probably too much mummy power in the house.

      I hope you are not sticking your weird ideals on some poor little kid.

    • James1 says:

      11:14am | 22/03/11

      So you are sexually attracted to men, but were raised in an environment that led you not to act on your attraction.  Why all the hate then?  If you understand homosexuality is about upbringing and choice, and are thus at least bisexual yourself, why hate people for being raised differently?

    • Jugg says:

      07:03pm | 21/03/11

      No point contributing to the Punch, when they suppress free debate.

    • Servaas says:

      08:01pm | 21/03/11

      “A Christian organisation that condemns homosexuality”
      It’s like saying: A Christian organisation that condemns theft/adultery.

    • dude says:

      08:02pm | 21/03/11

      be gay, thats ok, but dont demand the same rights as hetrosexual parents, if you cant conceive TOGETHER, you are not meant to be parents

    • Nate Dog says:

      08:34pm | 21/03/11

      So I guess that applies to all couples who can’t conceive naturally? Bad luck hey?

    • Tom says:

      11:38am | 22/03/11

      @nate dog, poor analogy. You have omitted the differences.

    • Kika says:

      11:38am | 22/03/11

      It’s not the case of whether they can conceive naturally. It comes down to whether the process involved is likely to lead to children.
      1+2 = 3
      1+1 = 2
      2+2 = 4

      By adding 1 + 1 together you don’t get 3. But adding 2+2 together you don’t get 3. Another process has to occur for the two 1’s and the two 2’s to get to 3.

      (2+2) -1 = 3
      (1+1) +1 = 3

    • kate says:

      12:13pm | 22/03/11

      so where’s the campaign to ban adoption, fostering, IVF, AI and step-parenting?

      No, didn’t think so….

    • Tom says:

      04:51pm | 22/03/11

      Kate, so where is the campaign advocating that adoption, fostering, IVF, AI and step-parenting receive identical (no more and no less) government assistance, identical barriers and identical rights to natural parents?

      No, didn’t think so?

    • Nate Dog says:

      05:40pm | 22/03/11

      @ Tom, the original statement was a poor justification. The real crux of the matter is not about whether people can physically produce children (anyone with half a brain and a functioning reproductive system can), but rather how a child is raised. The argument presented here is essentially that only those who can naturally conceive should be parents. Such a position is questionable on many levels.

      @ Kika, I have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Tom says:

      03:18pm | 23/03/11

      @nate dog, good call. The 8 hours per day at the office and 18 hours per day doing the parental chores far outweighs the DNA factor in my book.

      I would love to see adoption made easier and NO DNA allowance made for dipsticks who dump their kids and march back 10 years later when all the work is done to demand access to their progeny.

    • Nehima says:

      08:31pm | 21/03/11

      The Church doesn’t have to like homosexuals, though I feel sorry for all of the Christians who espouse love and understanding only to have their beliefs undermined by their own institution.

      However, I can disagree with something without actively trying to bring it down, thwart it at every opportunity and make the people in that group feel bad about themselves.

    • Secondmouse says:

      08:43pm | 21/03/11

      Didn’t believe it so I went to the app store to see for myself. If the reviews are anything to go by, the app doesn’t seem to be working very well : )

      It won’t last long but at least it’s giving gay people a chance to send a message to Exodus.

    • Joaquin says:

      04:51am | 22/03/11

      I kinda understand why some people are racist or ethnocentric from an evolutionary biological perspective…it’s a somewhat natural tribalist tendency that has become maladaptive since the advent of intentional multicultural societies over the last 30 years. But I cannot understand being anti-gay. I don’t know if anyone is naturally ‘anti-gay’. Homosexuality is not a threat. Anyone know the science behind repulsion towards homosexuals? Or is it purely religious?

    • Bloggs says:

      10:57am | 22/03/11

      To many, the whole homosexual culture is repulsive.  It is regarded as unnatural and male to male sex extremely repugnant.

      It is made worse by the in your face attitude of homosexual people as they attempt to normalise their sexual behaviour.

      No religion involved with many people, just repugnance to an unnatural act.

    • Red Baron says:

      06:22am | 22/03/11

      A pity the biblical paragraph is not read in the historical context.
      Moses wanted an army and a critical mass of population for his rampage through the Sinai.
      Gay men do not produce children in the same number.
      Homosexuality only became a sexual abomination when Paul ran out of vitriol for being ignored by the Sanhedrin.

    • Golly Gosh says:

      08:09am | 22/03/11

      Ones sexual preference should be a very private matter. That appears to be a large part of this ‘problem’. Some. insist on ‘coming out’ and insisting we accept their explanations, that not many want to know.  Do you see heterosexuals on TV or magaine covers saying ‘oh, by the way I am in a relationship with Daphne Jones who has warts all over her face’.  I thought you should know as I insist you accept her.  Do what you want, where you want, with who you want, but keep it to yourself. OR is that part of the ‘problem’.  Is this another exercise in gaining attention that may have been ‘a’ trigger in the cognitive process of ‘some’ gay people,  Go on !!!!  Scream and rant, how dare you.  One of my sons is gay and is ‘living with Aids’ and let me tell you, it is a crushing burden for a parent.

    • Dylan says:

      09:19am | 22/03/11

      And if this app was racist in nature? Say the Ku Klux Klan in the US brought out an App and it was published to the App Store. Would we be saying ‘oh no that’s just free speech, if you don’t like their views don’t download it’.

      If there was an app that painted women as inferior and told them to quit their jobs, start a family and look after the household because that’s what they were meant to do (or that’s what the bible says they should do), would we tolerate that? Would we say this may be sexist but it’s their view.

      I suspect some may argue free speech, but as a society I think in this day and age we’d say no, that is unacceptable.

      It would seem that the only difference is that one of the characteristics targetted by this prejudice is perceived by some to be controllable. Sexual orientation. To that I say, believe it or not but I have never been attracted to a member of the opposite sex. Since a very young age I have felt some form of same-sex attraction and as I’ve developed and matured, so has my orientation developed and matured, as it does.

      People will argue to they’re blue in the face over whether homosexuality/bisexuality is a choice or not. But for me, and for pretty much all the other same-sex attracted people I have met in my life and discussed this, it is not. And really, who is going to have a better idea about it the person who has lived their life and seen their feelings develop, or someone who has just met them but believes it to be a choice.

    • Greg says:

      10:45pm | 22/03/11

      You either have free speech or you don’t, and if you make qualifications to satisfy politically correct control freaks then you don’t.

      So yes, I’m fine with any alleged racist, sexist or any other type of “ist” free speech. Those who disagree, can make their own response.

      We don’t need a bunch of dimwitted moral arbiters making decisions for us on what can be considered “acceptable”.

      As for homosexuality, I don’t believe that people have a choice and I don’t believe that (currently at least) it can be cured.

      So what? It is still a mental illness, many other forms of which also currently have no cure.

      We should not blame those inflicited with homosexuality anymore than we should blame anybody with schizophrenia for their illness, but we should never accept their condition as normal either.

    • bobw says:

      09:05am | 23/03/11

      Greg:  “We don’t need a bunch of dimwitted moral arbiters making decisions for us on what can be considered ‘acceptable’.”

      Greg (two paragraphs later):  “It is still a mental illness, many other forms of which also currently have no cure.”*

      No tension between those two statements.  Well done Greg:  a masterpiece of reasoning.

      *Substantiation provided for this medical claim:  Nil.

    • Jeremy says:

      10:41am | 22/03/11

      The Bible states in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is wrong. Thus, as a free and open society we should entertain militant anti-gay Christians with trinkets like Apple apps. We don’t need to watch for the rush to download them.

    • Alex says:

      11:33am | 22/03/11

      Erick, you belong to the minority of intelligent people who post on this website. Hat off to you.

    • Mitch says:

      02:42pm | 22/03/11

      It’s simple not true that homosexuals who of their own volition seek to reorient their sexuality cannot do it. In 2009 Jones and Yarhouse released the first decade long study of homosexuals undergoing reparitive therapies. What it did show was that most people doing reparitive therapy had little or no success, however 15% had what they would consider complete success.

      The American Psychiatric assoication responded that the research was not conclusive enough to endorse reparative therapy. A finding i am not averse to. (google both the research and response for yourself)

      I can though, on the current data, see no reason why those who wish to re-orient their own sexuality, given some chance of success, should not be given access to services that assist that.

      Exodus is one of these organisations.

      While such an organisation may draw the barnicles of hatred and vitriole, becoming a focal point for discrimination, in and of itself, it seems to me that allowing people to chose how to deal with their sexuality in their own way instsll true dignity in the one who choses such a path.

      I think most right thinking people destest hateful disrimination. On that we are agreed.

    • Rick says:

      05:46pm | 22/03/11

      Maybe Exodus should take some straight men and see how many they can get to turn gay.  If they use a dedicated program over many months I would expect they could beat 15%.
      Isn’t it about time you accepted that a certain percentage of men are going to be gay and even though the bible novel tells you that it is wrong there is nothing that you can do about it?

    • Joeyjoejoejnr says:

      08:48pm | 22/03/11

      Rick, should we accept that certain % of people will be alcoholics as well… just the way they are made I guess and so we should just give up on them, even the ones that ask for help to get through it.
      If someone feels that Homosexuality is a moral issue for them and want to overcome it… why do you want to deny them help?

    • john says:

      02:47pm | 22/03/11

      ...or human intelligence culminated from turkey baster methods.

    • Joeyjoejoejnr says:

      08:44pm | 22/03/11

      This whole Christian v Gay thing is getting out of hand… sorry, but I am not going to comment on the article, rather I will comment on all the comments.
      Firstly, sin is sin and there is one redeemer- Christ. If you haven’t accepted Christ as your saviour, being Gay is a moot point… you are sinner whether Gay or not and in need of salvation.
      To everyone who doesn’t believe in Christ… well that is your choice. But note - he didn’t come to judge, he came to set free, no matter who you are, you can have him as your personal saviour… but it is YOUR choice.
      That said, those of you who mock your creator… may God have mercy on you, for you are asking for the wrath of your maker and I encourage you for your own sake to think twice about it. The very second after you die it will be too late to think twice then! I know sometimes you are goaded into it through provocation… but don’t attack the Lord just to make a point to another man - you’re playing with fire!
      Finally, there are some extreme comments and views on here. Don’t use them to form an opinion… look into it yourself and once researched (without someone else’s commentary) then form an opinion. Don’t judge the bible or God on what someone else says or from the teachings of your childhood. Look into it yourself. Start with the Gospels and you will see that Jesus is a saviour to all sinners whether they be adulterous, rip off tax merchants, liars, covetous, road ragers, alcoholics, clergy and even… homosexuals.
      If you (you the one reading this right now) were the only person ever to sin, he would have come and died for you and you alone! He is a personal saviour no matter who you are or what you have done.
      God Bless

    • free choice says:

      09:28pm | 22/03/11

      Nature proves homosexuality is wrong because when two enter into a monogamous relationship, they cant re-produce. Which means (and I’m stating the obvious) if everyone was gay the human race would cease to exist (and there would be no-one working in the nursing homes to bring afternoon tea & change our slippers). Everything else in nature, including plants and animals, is endorsed by nature through their ability to re-produce.

    • Anne Stocks says:

      07:58am | 17/08/11

      Senthorun Raj says…  it is hardly a surprise that suicidal ideation and suicide is an endemic problem amongst same-sex attracted and gender diverse people….why do you think they suicide Senthorun because they feel happy and content or perhaps as you assume they agree with what others are saying about them and feel shame and can’t handle it,  sorry if you really do believe these are their reasons then you are deceived. Many Homosexuals have Aids or related illnesses and suicide for them is a quick way out and others find that what they thought would meet their deeper needs doesn’t and the confusion and fear they feel which is not always able to be blocked out with Drugs or Alcohol and excessive immoral sex, leaves them with no alternative at least in their thinking. Then there are those who can not handle the abuse and rejection of their partners or being used as a commodity when wanted, they do not really have long term fulfilling relationships even if they say they do, in truth they never do, they just adapt. Are all these just True for Homosexuals, no sadly also Heterosexuals living contrary to God’s guidelines will often experience much the same trauma and as we know some of them also suicide.

      Like you Senthorun I agree passionately with the need to be Loving and tolerant of others so does God but I also cannot water down His warning that people who practice Homosexuality are in grave error and danger. I believe in light of the Scriptures that God is not accepting of this type of behaviour the same as with all sin, but I do not in any way agree that He does not have compassion and Love for those who do wrong, God’s Truth is very clear about this but He longs for us to repent and turn from evil and do good.
      In warning us that we will be punished for the wrong we do, God is in fact seeking to protect us in the same way the Law in our Country is, for example what would happen if we all chose our own agenda when it came to the traffic lights such as ... you and I decided from now on red was go and green meant stop, we would be placing not only ourselves but others in danger and this would still be so even if we found some others who would agree with us. God’s Laws are not to deprive us or cause us pain and they are not based on intolerance as most people understand it. Yes God is indeed intolerant of wrong doing, the same as the Law of the Land is, but it is for our good not bad…

      I suggest Senthorun you check out what God’s Truth tells us about sin which includes Homosexuality and not go by your own or someone else agenda and worldly understanding - Romans 1:24 -27

      Kind regards Anne.

 

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