Power to the people on an ETS - without a new tax

letting the truth get in the way says:

07:14am | 08/12/09

coal fired electricity (no CCS) ~ $40 to $80 /MWh

wind powered electricity ~ $80 to $100 /MWh

Geothermal electricity ~ $100 to $120/MWh

Coal fired electricity with CCS ~ $80 to $140 /MWh

Solar PV electricity ~ up to $500/MWh

If PV panels can generate electricity for something remotely resembling the cost of other means, then we’ll talk. Until then, why would you force Australians to pay five times as much as is necessary for low emissions electricity? Remember that Government ‘supports’ is just a euphemism for taxpayer pays.

I want low emissions electricity too, I just don’t want to pay five times what I need to pay in order to get it.

letting the truth get in the way says:

07:16am | 08/12/09

PS - the source for those cost numbers is:

http://www.esipc.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/2008_APR_Final_for_Web.pdf

There is no PV there though. I’m happy to hear a better number.

Sherlock says:

08:38am | 08/12/09

What there are alternatives to the ETS????

But Mr Rudd told me that if you oppose the ETS then you don’t want to do anything on climate change.

Are you telling me he lied??

Neil says:

08:59am | 08/12/09

If as the article suggests we take Pay-Roll tax away from the States, where does the Commonwealth get the money from to make up the short fall? There is a mention of business getting tax cuts but of course the individual tax payer would end up making up for that.

The ETS isn’t a sound idea unless firms actually deal with their level of emmissions. Perhaps rather than just trashing something because it potentially can be a tax we should look at why business would fail to clean up its act under an ETS and thus minimise its costs.

The only method of not imposing a tax is to provide more incentives, which opens up corruption and under utilisation of our taxes.

If business is paying then they will have to find ways to keep costs down or go under to foreign suppliers. Yes I know that wouldn’t be good but I’m tired of being the one that pays for business laziness (can we find some good managers that actually understand more than the bottom line at end financial year, the same comment goes for share holders).

Con says:

09:30am | 08/12/09

The Rudd government is not good government:
- Problems with health -> blame doctors and add more spin and confusing policy
- Global warming -> new tax will solve everything, what are the alternatives? Don’t know, don’t care.
- GFC -> Throw money everywhere and make good publicity, now interest rates are going up, hide and say nothing, do nothing.

COF says:

11:35am | 08/12/09

I wrote a comment suggesting this only yesterday - so it goes without saying Chris that I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Who would not support a tax that promotes sustainability over a tax that promotes unemployment? An easy sell and a positive move.

Neil says: “If as the article suggests we take Pay-Roll tax away from the States, where does the Commonwealth get the money from to make up the short fall? There is a mention of business getting tax cuts but of course the individual tax payer would end up making up for that.”

The ETS would make up the shortfall I imagine Neil, as well as income tax and GST and what have you. Payroll tax is a sunk cost to Australian business, and if you ask any business they would much rather be in the position to pay company tax on their profits than pay a payroll tax regardless of whether they make a profit or not.

To put it simply, it doesn’t matter what tax system you have as long as you get the same revenue stream. However, to have a tax system that provides positive outcomes out of revenue collection allows for a better tax system. Let’s have a look at the current tax system and see the positive outcomes of each tax system:

Income tax - graded, creates fiscal drag which offsets the effects of the business cycle.
Company tax/Capital gains - same deal, when companys goe bad, they don’t make profits, they don’t have to pay tax. Also has a fiscal drag effect.
GST - if used effectively, can avert recession and reduce inflation very effectively (maybe next time Kevin)
Cigarette/alcohol tax - offsets the health expenditure involved with the use of these items.
ETS - will hopefully make it more financially feasible to introduce pollution reduction methods and introduce a more sustainable economy - 100 year plan, anyone? Oh, and yes it may help stop the planet from cooking if you believe that.
Payroll Tax - a disincentive for business to employ people, which has the advantage of…...um…...

If Payroll tax is eliminated Neil, the public ends up getting the return in increased employment, a massive drop in inflation, increased public equity, which of course is all taxed anyway. But you get the idea.

Harquebus says:

02:49pm | 08/12/09

We all pay the “need assistance” indirectly through our taxes. Ultimately, the consumer pays. I am at the bottom of the economic heap and would love the opportunity to save energy and sell my surplus to those energy munching plasmas..

Mark C says:

07:53pm | 08/12/09

How many of you feel the that voting for rudd was a supreme mistake? Hahahaha australia deserves whatever it gets from this con-job of a government. Answer the question penny - what are your non-taxation alternatives?

Gracelyn says:

09:18am | 17/10/11

IMHO you’ve got the right awnesr!