Pit stop medicine with Formula One GPs

Jenna says:

09:54am | 06/12/10

TChong when you or a family member is sick in future stay away from the doctors. I mean all those years of study and sacrifice and the constant pressure to get things right don’t seem like a reason to pay them well, after all your health and the lives they save are not worth much in your eyes. No ones seems to be up in arms when bank managers or politicians get paid lots (and some of them have been involved in projects like the home insulation bungle which killed people) and they get away with all kinds of crap. TChong, people like you talk big but will run to the ‘business’ doctor when sickness comes knocking because you aren’t brave enough to walk the walk.

TChong says:

10:52am | 06/12/10

Jenna, “walk the walk:“etc What are you talking about?
I think any profession that over charges, while hoodwinking the public about their self proclaimed innate goodness need exposing.
Doctors included.

Adam Diver says:

11:43am | 06/12/10

I agree with Chongie on this one too Jenna. How a doctor can’t survive on the medicar rebate, arounf $35 for 5-10 mins work is beyond me. I don’t care how much training you do, charging someone above $210/hour for a temperature check and “take some panadol” is morally bankrupt.

Its not like its a free market system either, the barriers of entry are huge (with continued pressure from the doctors association)  and there is no substite for the demand.

ibast says:

01:01pm | 06/12/10

Jenna, we’ve got to stop holding doctors in such high esteem.  They are a heavily unionised workforce that runs a very closed shop.  If there’s any reason why the medicare and private healthcare system doesn’t work in Australia, it’s because doctors rort the system.

Oh and they don’t’ have that much training.  Their degree is no more difficult than a Law or Engineering degree and both of those professions have to work a lot of years, after leaving uni, before being considered to be at a professional level.  And in the case of Engineers they never see anywhere near the pay that doctors do.

Son of a doctor says:

02:05pm | 06/12/10

My dad is a country GP with 30 years experience.  Recently he was visited by the health Department doing an audit on the practice.  During that time of the health officials visit he performed a number of procedures and generally made about $300.  If he followed the health Department guidelines and sent the patients off to other specialists and hospital it would cost around $5000. Yet this is what the health Department wanted.

If you believe doctors are roughting the system because they are to busy to set the record .  Then you deserve to be hoodwinked.  For example my father’s obstetric insurance bill was twice the amount of what he doing obstetrics in a year.  Tell me why does the doctor have to pay for the right to be sued if anything went wrong?

The author of the article looks like she’s at this stage of her life. Where disease that could occure in old age start.  Do you not think it is worth it to possibly find it now than when it would be fully formed and would cost you a lot more money in hospitals expenses?

Reg says:

03:05pm | 06/12/10

@Son of a Doctor, I agree with what the Health Department wanted. I endured three years of a GP telling me the wrong diagnosis until I insisted on being sent to an ENT. The GP gracious apologised for his mistake but I lost three years of my life through incorrect treatment.

If my family were younger, I would be using this pre-booking <sic> but certainly cancelling three or so days before, if I felt it was not needed.

I am sure that the doctors I see have a secret mark on my file that indicates that I no longer blindly follow their recommendations. Something like….“RP” Recalcitrant Patient.  The last straw was being put an a drug for Atrial Fibrillation that did NOT work, but instead gave me an over-active Thyroid and a propensity to Pulmonary Fibrosis. Only the lung specialist, not the cardio, told me I had fat intruding on the outside of the otherwise perfectly healthy lungs.

hot tub political machine says:

04:17pm | 06/12/10

Disagree T Chong, I know quite a few Dr.‘s and they are among the brightest of a very shiny bunch. Saintly wouldn’t be a word out of place when I consider the coupling of their love for humanity with the crap they put up with from drunks. and child abusers….

Son of Doctor says:

05:07pm | 06/12/10

@ Reg I didn’t explain my self properly. trying to shorten a story the proceduers my dad was doing at the time where technical not diagnostic.  setting a broken nose cutting warts of the skin etc.  Usually when he does cutting out mumps it occurs because a tell a patiant that the mump for what ever reason needs to be cut out. usually what would happen if he sent them to a specialist He would say i can cut it out but it really needs to be cut out by a specialist.  the specialist would then say i can cut it out but my insurance wont let me i have to send you to a plastic surgen.  the plastic surgen says i can do it and it going to cost you a lot of money.  the patiant then comes back to dad and says i can’t afford it can you do it. 

The heath department offical was gathering data for their plan of paying the doctor for how many test they order not the peopl they get well.  also if they even the doctors do do the test they will only be paid if they enter the infomation into the right place on the system.  So they a basically being paid fo moving information from colum a to colum b.

What i was trying to say is the health department is trying to define health into neat little list of numbers and procedures rather then a doctor looking for solutions to a person problems.  Dad says cynicaly that health departments are trying to dumb down his profession.

Reg says:

07:58pm | 06/12/10

Sorry Doctor’s Son,  I see. I don’t know where you are or the travel distances your dad’s patients might have to travel to a specialist, but I’m fortunate to be in Sydney and Medicare covers a large proportion of the cost such that travel costs and inconvenience may be the decider for some of his patients. Getting to the RPA is generally a major undertaking anyway but recently I was directed to have a blood test by the lung doctor at the RPA where his rooms are. The thought of doing the journey all over again just for a blood test was unattractive so I was advised I could get it done anywhere. Not so, it had to be forwarded to a specific lab. But your dad’s right, specialization has been closing in for years. It’s a US thing, no-one knows the complete system, everyone has his own little speciality. I was surprised that the lung doctor made certain observations that the cardio should have made. He said he’d mention them in his report. The x-ray specialist who’d made certain observation that fell into the cardio’s realm was given very short shrift by the cardio.  I’m in the fortunate position of being able to poll a lot of nurses as a double check. What a coldly depressing lot they are.

Northern Steve says:

09:20pm | 06/12/10

Adam, either you don’t understand the business of a GP, or are being deliberately misleading.  Don’t forget that for the money the GP brings in, they also need to pay rent on the premises, pay for admin and nursing staff, electricity, rates, medical equipment, and all the other overheads businesses normally pay.  There is also time between patients or end of day where they record notes about patients, and time spent outside of working hours staying current by reading journals or other PD.  Their fee is not straight in their pocket.

Tom says:

02:08am | 07/12/10

Adam Diver, for every little Timmy that comes for a temperature check that takes 5 minutes, there will also be someone with a litany of problems that takes 30 minutes to get through. Adding to that, a GP has to pay rent on the office, the secretary, and medical indemnity insurance. So to say they are getting $210 an hour is just flat out wrong.

Considering medicine is either a 4 year graduate or a 6 year undergraduate degree, in addition up to 6 years of post graduate training, it is a bit rich to say they are overpaid when lawyers, bankers, and some tradies are on comparable amounts. None of those professions (with the possible exception of dodgy tradies) have to go to sleep knowing that people live or die based upon their decisions.

And as for the free market, I suggest you check out the US healthcare system if you want an example of what it does to healthcare. The US is now spending trillions fixing its broken system.

ibast says:

09:59am | 06/12/10

You must live in a GP privileged area.  Around my place you need to book days ahead to see a GP.  Sure there is one long opening medical clinic, but the last time I went there the doctor was as high as kite.  Even if she wasn’t most medical centres are there to get 6 or 8, 15 minute medicare dockets in an hour.  They tell you it’s a virus and send you away.  If you come back the next day they get you to sign the docket again.  Win-Win for them.  No help to me because apparently I’m too dumb to know when I’m really sick.

Adam Diver says:

10:09am | 06/12/10

I agree with the canceling appointment situation but I can assure you the wait for doctors is common where I live. We have a large retirement population cloging up the health system down here.

I know old age has complications but the time and money spent on these people is extra-ordinary all those medicare rebates would cost a fortune. I have no idea of the solution, perhaps some super should be designated to fund medical procedures???

Tom says:

02:12am | 07/12/10

There are two schemes existing already that address the last paragraph of your comment. There are bonded medical places where you must work in an area of workplace shortage for the duration of your degree (e.g. graduate medicine is 4 years, therefore you work 4 years in an area of shortage) in exchange for easier entry. You also get time taken off that commitment if you chose to work in rural/remote areas.

There is also the rural scholarships, where you get a stipend each year in return for agreeing to work in a rural or remote area.

Shelly says:

10:18am | 06/12/10

What are you on about? GPs trained in obstetrics can’t get indemnity - bulldust. They can - they may choose not to because of the cost. Most medical graduates - once they are vocationally trained and registered can get medicare numbers to bill. If you’re in an ED having someone manage your chest pain - no-one is billing for that service (unless you’re in a private hospital).

Who says we have an oversupply of doctors? The Feds do fund GP training - I think the last intake was undersubscribed. Perhaps the problem is that some GPs expect to be paid as though they were brain surgeons. And that the medical profession in general believes they are entitled to earn enormous (and to most ordinary workers - extraordinary) sums of money. I think doctors forget that taxpayers fund their very expensive training (including subsidising their expensive university studies). Many then go on to bill the taxpayer for the rest of their careers, or get paid by taxpayer funds when employed in the public sector. Instead of moaning about how badly done by the “system” they are - they schould acknowledge that the “system” has given them the opportunities they have.

Against the Man says:

10:57am | 06/12/10

Shelly

Find out the facts before posting.

Midwives have taxpayer funded indemnity, GPs don’t!

Medical graduates can only get a medicare billing number to work independently once they have finished a training program but many doctors have enough training or at least more that nurse pracs to work independently without further fellowship training but the government won’t give them medicare numbers. Double standards.

Have you been paying attention to the news in the last few years? As of 2013 the number of medical grads will be increased by 150%. There is still close to 1000 intern jobs they don’t exist and need to exist by 2013. Next year is the first year that some Australian trained doctors will not get an internship position. What about the subsequent years when they need to be funded for specialist training? Has Roxon got the funding or a plan for that problem?

They don’t owe the ‘system’ anything as they provide medical services at public hospital at a pretty good price, imagine if they all left to join the private system.

Wake up people, Roxon wants everyone to bill medicare so medicare goes bust and the ALP can sell it to a ‘private’ company to manage and we can have a USA style private healthcare system and the government has one less thing to worry about.

Shelly says:

12:37pm | 06/12/10

Maybe you should read what I posted before replying. Your initial statement about indemnity did not say taxpayer funded indemnity for midwives. My response was that GP Obstetricians can get indemnity - they choose not to because of the cost. Indemnity is available from a medical defence fund. If they work for a public hospital they will be indemnified by the state.

You have restated my point about doctors being required to have vocational training and registration (training by a college and voc reg under HIC Act) to bill medicare. However, doctors don’t need that to access medicare - they need only be entitled to an exemption under the Act, one way is by working in a District of Workforce Shortage. They can then bypass the need for vocational training. They would also access a slightly lower rebate. But hey, it’s not all about the money is it?

In the state I live in, the public system will provide internships for all Australian grads (locally trained). Not sure what other states are doing. Agree that ongoing specialist training will be an issue - but that is something that needs to be taken up with the training colleges as well as the Feds.

So what if says:

09:07am | 07/12/10

Roxon has got it all wrong. We do have a problem and ‘Fed up with…’ has brought up some key issues. Roxon has a bias against doctors and she talks about spending but very little about results.