The Jerry Springer of modern philosophy was in good form when he addressed a packed crowd on Wednesday evening in the Great Hall of the University of Sydney.

Peter, Peter! Photo: Graham Grouch

Peter Singer, now a professor at Princeton University in the US, was back in his native Australia for a visit.

Most philosophers count themselves lucky if their mother appreciates their work. But Singer is regarded - by journalists, at least - as the most influential living philosopher. In fact, at Sydney Uni, he was introduced with the fulsome praise normally reserved for superannuated television stars: “If we had a collection of national living treasures, Peter would certainly stand tall amongst them.”

Most of the crowd, including the 20 or so high school students in the front row, had the ruddy, well-fed look of practicing non-vegetarians. So it was not Singer the Vegan they had come to see. It was Singer the Moral Iconoclast.

In this, Singer never fails to disappoint.

Back in 2009, he gave a thumbs-up to bestiality on Q&A. That came on top of years of endorsing other taboos, like euthanasia, infanticide, and abortion.

Yesterday it was incest.

Imagine a brother and sister, he said. They are on a summer holiday and decide that it would be interesting and fun if they tried making love. There’s no chance of offspring because she is using the pill and he a condom. It brings them closer, but they never do it again.

Is this wrong?

You could feel the frisson of deliciously wicked transgressiveness sweeping through the Great Hall. Oooooo, isn’t that naughty, or what? This is the ethical wizardry we came for!

Singer then took show of hands and found that half of his listeners thought that loving, contraceptive incest was cool – which makes one-child families sound like a good idea for the next generation of
Sydney Uni graduates, doesn’t it? The other half thought that even ideal incest was wrong.

But why, he challenged his listeners. Just because it’s yucky? After all, there are no untoward consequences, no deformed children, no abuse, no violence.

Look, he explained, our instinctive revulsion at incest is merely an evolved response which protected human communities against inbreeding. But such intuitions are not authentically moral reaction because they lack a rational justification. They are evidence of our bondage to obsolete emotions. These conferred a survival advantage when we lived as hunter-gatherers, but not necessarily in the 21st Century.

For a rational man, it seems, there is nothing absolutely and always wrong. We have transcended Paleolithic views of good and evil and we have to leave taboos behind.

To be fair to Singer, he is not signing people up for bestiality support groups or incest rights campaigns. He almost certainly finds the very thought personally repugnant. But he sees no rational reason why such morally repugnant activities must be wrong, provided that the consequences are positive.

Singer is revered as a champion of animals and has spent his whole professional life arguing that animal experimentation, factory farming and animal abuse are seriously unethical. But there is something suspiciously species-ist about this view of morality.

However advanced the great apes may be, their human cousins have a capacity for abstract communication which is unique to our species. We engage in ethical discourse by distinguishing between emotional motivations and rational motivations. Animals cannot do this.

Humans, at least humans like Peter Singer, have reached liftoff velocity from the messy, incoherent, unintelligible gravitational pull of evolution. This means that we can vault ourselves like Superman into the exhilarating outer space of rational thinking, untainted by antiquated taboos like racism, xenophobia, incest or bestiality. And animals are going to be left behind.

It’s not surprising that Singer’s most successful student, Julian Savulescu, who is now an Oxford professor of bioethics, has moved on to the loopy theory of transhumanism. His line is that Humanity 1.0 badly needs to be upgraded to Humanity 2.0 through genetic engineering. “Unfit For Life: Genetically Enhance Humanity or Face Extinction”, the title of an address he gave last year, gives you the idea.

It makes me wonder if Singer understands the human condition of being an embodied self. Has he really reflected deeply enough on what it means for humans to be “homo sapiens”, a rational animal, an inseparable combination of animal instinct and non-material impulse?

In fact, I found Singer, who turns 65 this year, surprisingly flat at Sydney Uni. His address, given without notes, was fluent enough, but he sounded jaded. We’ve heard all this before, and so has he. For decades he has been banging the drum of liberating animals from humans and liberating humans from the Yuck Factor.

But the novelty of transgressiveness is wearing off. Animal Liberation was published in 1975, Practical Ethics in 1979 and The Expanding Circle in 1981. Since then, has Singer really said anything new? The time has come for a philosophical Dorothy to draw the curtain on this Wizard of Oz.

Michael Cook is editor of online bioethics newsletter BioEdge.

101 comments

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    • Erick says:

      04:59am | 11/02/11

      I’m no fan of Peter Singer. However, you condemn his ideas without offering any critique, other than the fact that you don’t like them. If gays can marry, why can’t brothers and sisters?

      Why is Singer wrong, in your opinion?

    • MrMac says:

      06:41am | 11/02/11

      Singer doesn’t necessarily endorse any ideas he philosophises about, albeit controversially .

      As the author says - “To be fair to Singer, he is not signing people up for bestiality support groups or incest rights campaigns. He almost certainly finds the very thought personally repugnant.”

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:18am | 11/02/11

      Erick, I wouldn’t have a problem with who shags who, but there are issues around incest with regards having children.  This is fact.

      Would you be prepared to sign an agreement - if you were willing to marry your sister, for example - saying you would both agree to have an abortion should she fall preganant, to prevent a heavily disabled child?

      How do you police such a thing?  The right to have children is a cornerstone of liberty, which Australians tend to hold pretty close.  How do you stop that?

      I think the problem with questions like yours is not whether two rational people would like to have sex.  The problem is one of community consequences should a heavily disabled child be deliberately brought into the world in such a situation.  Do we as a community simply accept that and pay our government support costs to the child?  Do we punish the parents in any way for taking such a measurable risk with another life?  Is it some kind of child abuse?  Is it none of the above?

      All difficult questions to answer.  I know I certainly don’t have the answers to such questions, and I think we’re still a ways off from finding our way through those sorts of things.

    • philip says:

      08:08am | 11/02/11

      ive said it before and ill say it again if you need to go to uni and do a course on philosophy you will never be a philosopher we all have the oppurtunity to mull over or philosophy over every single outcome if we choose to.

    • Missy says:

      08:17am | 11/02/11

      Personally I have a very close emotional relationship with both my brother and sister and putting the “yuk factor” aside I would hate to do something to ruin that.  Just look at all the people out there who have casual relationships with friends and then find out that the friendship is irrevocably changed or destroyed, I think there should be at least some people you can count on to be there for you without the pressure of sex being involved.

    • Steely Dan says:

      08:55am | 11/02/11

      @ Erick

      I was wondering the same thing!  Michael Cook apparently has some interest and expertise in bioethics - but this article could have been written by any journo who bothered to get out to Sydney Uni.

    • Steely Dan says:

      09:04am | 11/02/11

      @ Mahrat

      “I wouldn’t have a problem with who shags who, but there are issues around incest with regards having children.  This is fact.”
      In the context of the question raised by Singer, it isn’t: ‘There’s no chance of offspring because she is using the pill and he a condom. It brings them closer, but they never do it again.’

      “How do you police such a thing?”
      Remember that ethical and legal concerns are not the same thing.  Singer’s hypothetical is a question of right and wrong, not legal and illegal.  You’re right that this is impossible to police, and should remain illegal.

      And I’m no Singer scholar, but I didn’t think he was actually advocating the legalisation of bestiality or incest.  If I’m wrong let me know.

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      09:30am | 11/02/11

      Erick,

      I’m no fan of Peter Singer.>>

      Why?

      If gays can marry? Why can’t brothers and sisters?>>>

      Why stop there…. Why can’t sons marry their mums? Why can’t daughters marry their dads? Why can’t parents have sex with their little kids? Can someone argue from a intellectual point of view this is wrong?

      Militant Atheist Richard Dawkins is honest on this…..

      “If somebody used my views to justify a completely self-centred lifestyle, which involved trampling all over other people in any way they chose. . . I think I would be fairly hard put to it to argue on purely intellectual grounds.  . . I couldn’t, ultimately, argue intellectually against somebody who did something I found obnoxious.  I think I could finally only say, “Well, in this society you can’t get away with it” and call the police.”

      Ref: Dawkins, ‘Nick Pollard talks to Dr. Richard Dawkins’, Thirdway, April 1995, vol 18, no 3

      This is where Atheism will take us as a society. It is an absurd religion. If it’s not for Christianity anything goes. In this Christian society - you can’t trample all over people - you can’t get away with it

      “Atheism, in the end, is a belief system in its own right, one in which there can be no claim that a thieving, philandering, serial murdering cannibal is any less commendable a member of the species than a selfless, hard-working philanthropist. In fact, from an evolutionist perspective, the former may well have the advantage.

      To a true atheist, there can be no more ultimate meaning to good and bad actions than to good or bad weather; no more import to right and wrong than to right and left. To be sure, rationales might be conceived for establishing societal norms, but social contracts are practical tools, not moral imperatives; they are, in the end, artificial. Only an acknowledgement of the Creator can impart true meaning to human life, placing it on a plane above that of mosquitoes.” Rabbi Avi Shafran

    • James1 says:

      09:45am | 11/02/11

      I don’t think you are wrong Dan.  Singer is more inclined towards getting us to question our ethical assumptions, so as to gain a better understanding of the basis of human ethics.

      Of course, people (like TB below) characterise this as an attempt to change the nature of ethics - I’m not sure that it is.  Questioning the basis of something can often lead to a stronger basis being discovered.

    • Sam says:

      10:13am | 11/02/11

      @Mahrat

      If the only argument you can come up with to oppose marriage between related individuals is the potential risks to their children, then why not apply the same standards to everyone at risk of having disabled or sick kids? Sufferers of cystic fibrosis, Huntington disease, the blind, the deaf, those at increased risk of contracting heart disease of breast cancer; in all these situations, you’re looking at unions that can potentially (and that is the key word here; not all children of related individuals will end up with horrible disabilities - it depends entirely on what their genetic makeup is) lead to the birth of children who will have a reduced quality of life. If you’re going to restrict the right to give birth, and even to get married, on the basis of how healthy the kids are going to be, you have to cast the net a lot wider than incestuous couples.

    • Tim says:

      11:10am | 11/02/11

      Erick,
      this is actually the argument I find most proponents of gay marriage struggle with.
      People often struggle to think logically when issues like this arise.

    • Mahhrat says:

      12:09pm | 11/02/11

      @Sam - that’s pretty much my point.  We look at it and think “eww” because we have to.  There is intellectual, emotionless arguments that give rise to the ability to engage in incest and, yes, have children by those relationships.

      Emotionally, however, we are not yet mature enough as a species to really tackle it, because we don’t exist in a vacuum of logic.  We have emotions, societal norms, history and tradition that are as important to our lives as pure reason.

      I like reason, I think it’s necessary.  The moon crashing into Earth is going to obliterate us, whether we want to believe it or not.

      I believe that incest is wrong, because of the damage it can do to potential children and our traditional society values.  The same can be said to hold true for the disabled reproducing, yet I wouldn’t seek to prevent them having children.

      How do I justify this apparent hypocrisy? I don’t, because I don’t feel I need to yet.  The first is wrong, the second isn’t.  That doesn’t mean it can’t change, and it doesn’t mean that people like Singer can’t speak about that change, but arguing that logic is the be-all and end-all of how we define ourself is incredibly Randian and is as ultimately doomed to failure as any completely one-sided approach to life.

    • Erick says:

      12:42pm | 11/02/11

      Thank you for your comments, everyone.

      I don’t favour incest, personally. But I do have to note that there have been few, if any, logical refutations of Singer’s hypothetical.

      I, too, fall into the camp of those who think it’s just yucky. But at least I don’t pretend I have a rational counter-argument. And I’m disappointed because Michael Cook doesn’t have one either - he just relies on ickiness and ad-homs. I’d expect better from a professional.

    • Tim says:

      12:53pm | 11/02/11

      Mahrat,
      wait, what?
      You admit to hypocrisy but you’re OK with it?
      You talk about danger to potential children or damage to traditional family values but really this is just your subjective view and could be applied to many other things with the same argument.
      It’s these type of arguments that I don’t really like because when you boil them down, it’s the same as a parent unthinkingly saying to a child “because I said so”.
      Without logic, we are lost.

    • Tedd says:

      01:11pm | 11/02/11

      Apart form the biological implications - greater chance of concentrating bad alleles of genes, and thus biological “defects”, it changes a dynamic of power, as well as potentially creating or enhancing insularity in a family unit.  It is anti-social.

    • biscuit says:

      01:45pm | 11/02/11

      zac - youve clearly not read any of Richard Dawkins writings where he argues that altruism is an evolutionary advantageous quality in humans and that altruism has benefited the evolution of our species greatly as humans are rational enough to understand that helping and getting along with others results in greater group cohesion and support - in turn increasing your chances of survival.

    • Mahhrat says:

      02:08pm | 11/02/11

      @Tim,

      First, thanks for not flaming me - most internet ppl would.  Class + 1 to you.

      Now, then:  First off, consistency is the defence of the small-minded.  A=A is theoretically true, but the “truth” is unfortunately filtered through life experiences.

      Secondly, I claimed right off that I don’t know the “answers”.  I try to keep my thoughts framed around a principle which goes something like “Is anyone affected by an action who didn’t get input as to whether it happened or not?”

      Let’s take our thought wider:  Should the lowest sociodemographics be allowed to breed? 

      Logically, it’s easy to argue that you should be able to demonstrate a basic level of financial, physical, educational and spiritual competence and require “permission” to have children.  Logically, we should have a register, with some federal government agency requiring you to have “approval” to breed.  Sounds a bit invasive, IMHO, but that’s the “logical” conclusion, surely?

      Now, I happen to think that argument has logical merit, but not merit socially or ethically, because if we don’t have freedom to follow our most basic instinct to reproduce, then what freedom can we be said to have?

      I can’t reconcile the logical argument with my beliefs, so I don’t try to.  I don’t feel the need to justify my statement that I think incestual breeding is irresponsible.  I have no problem with anyone having consensual sex, but what happens if the contraceptions fail and the mother doesn’t believe in abortion?

      We’re not even to a stage yet where a man can legally refuse to support a child resulting from an unwanted pregnancy.  Even if he has an affidavit that the woman would terminate any pregnancy, if the woman changes her mind once pregnant, he’s up for maintenance cost for 18 years.

      That, of course, is exactly as it should be.  Why? Because it’s just right.

      Logically, the opposite should be true, but that denies the rights of the baby to both parents.  Does a baby need both parents?  That’s a whole other debate, and certainly not decided yet either.

      To draw that back, does a baby then have the right to expect a reasonable chance of not suffering a disability?  I would like to think so, but what’s the limit?  That would inform this debate an awful lot, but I don’t think our society has seriously considered the question.

      Hence, incestual breeding is wrong.  Preventing inappropriate parenting at any level is also wrong.  These two views are logically hypocritical.  How do I justify that? I can’t, so I don’t, but I’m happy to discourse about it to try and move it forward, so long as people realise that I might be missing information and/or education on the situation.

    • True Believer says:

      02:26pm | 11/02/11

      @Biscuit

      You mean people actually read Richard Dawkins and take him seriously? What a hoot.

      His thinking is seriously flawed because he thinks he is just an animal and has no Creator. Gosh I didn’t think anyone took notice of him.

    • Rationalist says:

      02:31pm | 11/02/11

      @Zac de Spudnut you couldn’t be more wrong about all of your key points.

      Atheism by definition is not a religion, nor a belief system; it is simply the absence of those things. Also, Christianity is absolutely not required to impose limits on human behaviour. Any set of arbitrarily unchangable rules can do that: Islam,  Confucianism etc. Christianity is just one of a very large set.

      An atheist is simply a person who’s behaviours are unbound by religious rules, but are rather bound by their own ethics and/or compulsive restrictions placed upon them by others (such as a code of laws). Thanks to atheists and apostates, it is now illegal to kill witches and homosexuals. Thanks to them, one cannot throw one’s daughter to a rapacious mob as described in Judges 19:24. The bible approves slavery, yet those untrue to the word of the lord have made it illegal. Samuel 15:2-3 prescribes genocide, yet we have The Hague International Criminal Court to ensure anyone following God’s will in that way will surely hang for it.

      I wouldn’t feer Atheism. Atheism is passive, whereas religion is active. Atheism commands no-one to any action wheras religion permits unspeakable horrors. Your opinion is invalid.

    • James1 says:

      02:35pm | 11/02/11

      Only those of us who ask questions about our belief systems, TB.

    • Tim says:

      03:11pm | 11/02/11

      Mahrat,
      Interesting points and I do agree with you to a certain extent.
      But I will admit that on occasion I’ve thought that certain people shouldn’t be allowed to breed (unless they’re fully self sufficient) and most definitely that some people shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
      Ahhh but that’s only a dream (maybe when I’m elected Supreme Leader).

    • Pete says:

      04:25pm | 11/02/11

      Singer is utterly wrong because he completely ignores the evolved responses to what he’s suggesting. eg. It’s true incest might not have a relevant moral base these days, but does anyone honestly believe it is not totally destructive in its impact on our evolved brains? It’s this component of ethics (deep-seated human responses and implications) he chooses to leave out ie. you only get half the story. He regards humans as able to transcend their humanity yet provides no proof that it’s even possible. We’re hardwired for lots of things and pretending it ain’t so doesn’t make it go away. That makes me regard everything he says as party trickster sophistry, nothing more. But even that’s boring now as he hasn’t had anything new to say for the last 20 years.

    • Ziggy says:

      05:18am | 11/02/11

      Singer is a profound example of how mediocrity wrapped in an attractive package can become fashionable. Once asked him about cannabilism e.g. was it OK for parents to breed children for food for themselves? Sell them at food stalls at Paddy’s markets? Guess what? No problems for Singer.Bring it on.

    • Brendo says:

      08:21am | 11/02/11

      Are you sure he said that?  A vegan who believes the basis for ethics is to avoid pain and harm? Are you really sure he said breeding and slaughtering children was cool?

      Surely Professor Singer gives you enough ammunition for debate without needing to libel him?

    • Steely Dan says:

      09:05am | 11/02/11

      What abouting eating trolls, Ziggy?

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      11:57am | 11/02/11

      Brendo,

      Are you really sure he said breeding and slaughtering children was cool?>>

      Yep he thinks slaughtering children is cool…...

      Atheist Peter Singer argues in favor of infanticide. Here are some choice Singer quotations on the subject from his books “Rethinking Life and Death and Writings on an Ethical Life”

      On how mothers should be permitted to kill their offspring until the age of 28 days: “My colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggest that a period of twenty-eight days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others.”

      On why abortion is less morally significant than killing a rat: “Rats are indisputably more aware of their surroundings, and more able to respond in purposeful and complex ways to things they like or dislike, than a fetus at ten or even thirty-two weeks gestation.”

      On why pigs, chickens and fish have more rights to life than unborn humans: “The calf, the pig, and the much-derided chicken come out well ahead of the fetus at any stage of pregnancy, while if we make the comparison with a fetus of less than three months, a fish would show more signs of consciousness.”

      On why infants aren’t normal human beings with rights to life and liberty: “Characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness…make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings.”

      Atheism and Child Murder

      http://townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouza/2008/05/12/atheism_and_child_murder

    • Tedd says:

      12:28pm | 11/02/11

      Zac,

      Singer puts forward concepts and notions in a way addressed by the main article - Jerry Springer style. 

      Singer doe not “think slaughtering children is cool”

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      12:59pm | 11/02/11

      Tedd,

      Singer doe not “think slaughtering children is cool”>>>

      I’ve posted my proofs why Peter Singer thinks slaughtering children is cool and your proof is?

    • Tedd says:

      01:43pm | 11/02/11

      Zac,

      Saying “My colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggest that a period of twenty-eight days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others.” is a contemplation, Jerry Springer style, not a “proof” he thinks it is ‘cool”.

    • Waynevan says:

      05:49pm | 14/02/11

      Rationalist - Thanks to scripture it’s now illegal to kill anyone. Scripture describes, sometimes in great detail some horrific events of history but in no way approves of them. God’s instructions to destroy certain people were made to remove people so wicked that they stood in the way of humanity surviving.

    • True Believer says:

      05:30am | 11/02/11

      Dear God save us from the stupidity of people like Singer.  He thinks he is flying high above “animal” status - even the most lowly of creature has more decency than he exhibits.

    • Tedd says:

      08:40am | 11/02/11

      TB, the consequences of Singer’s philosophising probably does save us from more people thoughtlessly acting out these concepts.

    • True Believer says:

      10:58am | 11/02/11

      @Tedd

      You could be right however, there is always those who jump on these philosophical answers to human questions and use them to validate behaviour which can only lead to destruction.  No everybody thinks before they put things into action.

      People without a sound knowledge of who they are in God’s eyes are bound by nothing really much at all only their own internal frames of reference or those of others equally devoid of the dimension of humanity that leads to good, not harm.

    • Tedd says:

      11:42am | 11/02/11

      TB

      People can, as you say, be influenced or “bound by their own internal frames of reference, those .. devoid of the dimension of humanity that leads to good,”  .. or by those full of the dimension of humanity that leads to good, or a combination of those lenses, with or without a sound knowledge of who they are in God’s eyes.

      People may be influenced away from the bad, as well as to the good, in any endeavour.

    • Dazeddazza says:

      11:50am | 11/02/11

      True Believer@  Your call to “god” wont save you.  We are human, and as humans we have the right to think, and in most cases, speak our mind.  Singer does not advocate, he is speaking his mind and hopefully opening yours.

    • True Believer says:

      01:31pm | 11/02/11

      @Tedd:

      It is the conviction of the Holy Spirit along with our God-given conscience that produces in His people the awareness of what is offensive to God.  One could ignore that prompting of course, but one would be outside the will of God.

      Those who know and love God with all their heart, all their minds and all their souls as called to do by Him would find it possible to do bad, but very uncomfortable in their spirit but we have free will in Him.

      @ Dazeddazza:

      An mind open to the sort of “thinking” Singer proposes would be a sad mind indeed.
      As I have said before ‘an open mind can be like an open window, let in the fragrance of flowers, but also the smell of the sewer – without discerning between the two.’
      I don’t want a mind like that, but if you do and you are happy with it that is your choice and you have to live with it.

      Don’t presume to tell me what my call to my God will do or will not do. You do not know Him, if you did you would not make such an inane comment.

      Of course we have the right to think and speak our mind.  With “rights” come responsibilities and Singer is not showing much of that.

    • Tedd says:

      06:18am | 11/02/11

      To be fair to Singer, he is not signing people up for bestiality support groups or incest rights campaigns. He almost certainly finds the very thought personally repugnant.

      So, does he really give the thumbs up to these, or has he presented them for contemplation? O does he also relish the public pronouncements, the immediate the subsequent squirming, and the lingering discussion and more squirming? 

      As the title of this piece implies, in a Jerry Springer kind of way.

      Singer does seem to have used some things as stock public material, having published on bestiality in 2001 or before, despite his longstanding animal rights platform -

      http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/2001——.htm

      Such chronology and chronicity justifies some of Michael Cooks comments.

      But it does not justify wider contentions that Singer advocates all he presents and discusses as an ‘out-there’ philosopher.

    • Tedd says:

      06:44am | 11/02/11

      The first paragraph in my 6.18am post is a quote from Michael Cook’s article - ” .. “.

    • TChong says:

      06:23am | 11/02/11

      Well Mick, for such an intelligent, deep thinking chap, you sound to be suffering from an acute attack of envy.- (para 3, “Most philosphers..,” )
      You appear not to like the areas he visits - thats OK, we all have different POVs.
      But instead of just making your case about what Singer says, you then go on to make other remarks about his delivery style- “surprisingly flat”, “jaded”.
      How is this relavant.?
      Bagging the man, as well as his message. ?
      Not the best way to make a case , for a chap with your CV, is it Mick. ?
      Ethics 101- fail.

    • AT says:

      08:10am | 11/02/11

      “The time has come for a philosophical Dorothy to draw the curtain on this Wizard of Oz.”

      Well, you’re obviously not that Dorothy, Cooky.

      Instead of a mature, considered rebuttal of Singer’s shtick, you treat us to a petulant pouting broadside.

      It’s not as if you haven’t given it some thought;

      “It makes me wonder if Singer understands the human condition of being an embodied self. Has he really reflected deeply enough on what it means for humans to be “homo sapiens”, a rational animal, an inseparable combination of animal instinct and non-material impulse?”

      but you haven’t addressed any “issues”, just mocked Singer’s celebrity. Why don’t you come back to us with an article expanding on the quoted paragraph above? That way your arguments might punch through your resentment and you might find the schoolkids will fawn at your feet instead of that Singer meanie.

    • Steely Dan says:

      09:16am | 11/02/11

      @ AT

      “Well, you’re obviously not that Dorothy, Cooky.”
      Good call.  I’m waiting for The Punch to change the picture from Singer to Virginia Trioli pulling her Barnaby Joyce-inspired cartoon face and twirling finger.  It suits the tone of the article.

    • notSue says:

      11:48am | 11/02/11

      @ AT and Steely Dan.  Agreed! It certainly sounds like sour grapes to me. Love this bit ” at Sydney Uni, he was introduced with the fulsome praise normally reserved for superannuated television stars”. Hmm, feeling the lack of your own celebrity, Cooky?

      Singer has ben doing what philosophers *should* do - he makes us think, he makes us question the basis of our ethical and moral choices and has been doing so for quite some time, rather successfully. In this age of increasing secularism, we need to rethink why and* if* there are moral absolutes. The fear of missing out on heaven or facing hell in the afterlife is no longer a compelling rationale for right versus wrong..

      And whilst we’re questioning what is right for “homo sapiens’ in our conduct towards one another, why not expand that questioning to include the other feeling creatures with which we share this planet? In that sense, animals are far from being “left behind”.. even if some rather “out there” thinkers believe we should genetically enhance our own species! That’s way more offensive and challenging a position than anything “Springer-esque” that Singer raises, in my eyes!

    • anatar says:

      02:27pm | 11/02/11

      @ youse both,

      And the funny thing is, even here on this “anti-Singer” blog, it’s Singer’s ideas and comments that have commandeered and driven the discussion. Despite the best efforts of Cook the Sook to portray him as a vaudevillian has-been.

      That’s some ironic justice.

    • ED says:

      08:46am | 11/02/11

      There was a great debate on reddit about a month ago on this very issue. Most people came to the same conclusion as Singer. Nobody was advocating doing it, just that provided that there was no possibility of offspring, nobody could find a moral reason why it was wrong.

      The ad hominem nature of this article does not help it. Please name a moral reason(s) why incest is wrong - that would be a fantastic article.

    • Richard says:

      09:59am | 11/02/11

      Well I can only speak for myself, but I reject all notions of morality and ethics and man-made constructs such-like. I just want to clear my mind of all that bullshit and follow the way of nature. I do not believe in right or wrong, good or evil or anything like that. For me, it is either “tao” or “not tao”.

      Highest good for me is to live instinctually and in harmony with nature. Incest is instincually repugnant and not in harmony with nature (natural desire is seek genetic diversity in one’s offspring). Therefore, for me, it is wrong (except that for me, I wouldn’t say “wrong” but “unnatural”, which for me is as close to wrong as I’m willing to get).

    • Lou says:

      03:44pm | 11/02/11

      I believe that Singer has raised a truly fascinating issue here. And although I personally wouldn’t sleep with my sibling - under the parameters that Singer described,
      I cannot think of a reason why it is morally wrong - I think the only time that morality really comes into it, is when there are children involved, other than that - although I find it unnatural, as Richard said, I cannot find a reason why it is immoral, and trust me I tried.

    • Ethical Art says:

      09:18am | 11/02/11

      I put Singer in the same box as Andres Serrano the creator of that enthralling piece of art called Piss Christ.
      Let’s just throw some really abstract and often offensive shit out there and watch the notoriety and cash come flowing in.

    • James1 says:

      10:18am | 11/02/11

      I suppose you are also against cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammad as well?

    • Ethical Art says:

      12:29pm | 11/02/11

      No James
      I found the cartoons refreshing and in the true tradition of cartoonists, they really went to the core of the issue.

    • James1 says:

      12:51pm | 11/02/11

      So your definition of offensive depends on who is being offended, then.  I see.

    • Ethical Art says:

      01:23pm | 11/02/11

      James
      Doesn’t everyone’s?

    • James1 says:

      02:44pm | 11/02/11

      I suppose they do.  My post was motivated by the fact that I find neither offensive.  Kinda proves your point, doesn’t it?

    • Bobby Huge says:

      09:18am | 11/02/11

      I’ve also found that a lot of people especially women don’t seem to like ATM despite it being all the rage in the movies.  Creampies they seem to love, and the cinnamon, but why they they can’t handle ATM or AToM is beyond me.

    • The bloke from the Collectors says:

      11:01am | 11/02/11

      Agree.  Geezus the worst it could be is a bit of peanut paste.  Harden up.

    • The dark Lord says:

      11:26am | 11/02/11

      I’m a tradesman’s specialist from way back.  If they can’t handle the meat, stay out of the bedroom.

    • Missy says:

      12:00pm | 11/02/11

      ew…

    • monkeytypist says:

      09:32am | 11/02/11

      The article isn’t as aggressive as its headline makes it out to be.  But I suppose it wouldn’t attract so many pageviews otherwise.

    • Tedd says:

      12:31pm | 11/02/11

      Peter Singers isn’t as aggressive as many commentators make him out to be, either

    • hot tub political machine says:

      09:37am | 11/02/11

      Fact is you can’t escape your conscience. Don’t believe me? Just try it. See you in a few years if you surive all the chemical help you’ll need to keep living with all that guilt.

      We have a sense of right and wrong and if there is no regard for that we can experience hell on earth- inside our own conscience.

    • Lou says:

      03:50pm | 11/02/11

      True true - but everyone’s conscience chimes in at different times. The Holocaust obviously had no affect on Hitler’s conscience.
      Whereas most of us would wear the murder of a single person on our conscience.
      A conscience is subjective to the person who holds it, hence why things like infantcide, beastiality and incest continue to happen.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:06am | 11/02/11

      I don’t know from a philosophical point of view, but from an anthropological point of view incest was taboo because it loosened intra and inter tribal bonds. A close bond with a member of one’s own family eliminated a potential marriage with another family within the tribe ( which strengthened the ties within the tribe) or marriage with a family from another tribe (which strengthened the ties between tribes). Not sure how it would affect modern society with its nuclear families.

    • Darren says:

      11:11am | 11/02/11

      wasn’t he a Greens candidate once?

    • Bill says:

      11:22am | 11/02/11

      @Erick, Steely Dan, AT, TChong
      Are you all really only capable of engaging in discussions of the nature of-
      Peter Singer GOOD vs Peter Singer BAD, or
      Incest OK vs incest NOT OK?

      You may find these sorts of blogs more to your liking
      http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/o/b/obama1st/2010/06/r*pe-and-incest-are-gods-plan.php  [replace * with a]
      http://patriotsandliberty.com/?p=4269
      Knock yourselves out.

      Some dude should be able to place a post about the historical and social position of a prominent Australian philosopher and expect it to be of interest to some who may already be familiar with his works, without trying to sum up complex issues into 1000 words for the easy consumption of whichever numbskulls can use the internet.

      It is the sort of thing, after all, what separates us from the beasts.  smile

      Thanks Mr Cook, interesting piece.

      @ Steely Dan these days when I hear cries of ‘troll!’ I reach for the lube.  :0

    • notSue says:

      03:15pm | 11/02/11

      Bill, since Steely and AT et al haven’t replied yet - “some dude”, namely Mr Cook, has not edified us on the ‘historical and social position’ of Peter Singer, he’s merely thrown around a few rather personal criticisms. I suggest if he wanted to be taken more seriously on the subject not sounding like a petulant child would have been a good place to start, followed by some learned discssion on a few points of *actual* bioethics, as the others have pointed out. If he engaged us, it would be worth replying in detail, but honestly, this commentary simply doesn’t warrant it.

    • Bill says:

      06:57pm | 11/02/11

      Thanks notSue.

      I’m not suggesting that Mr Cook wants to be taken more seriously or that he wanted to engage the collective you.

      I don’t know but it may be that he just wanted to make a comment of interest to some readers who have previously given some thought to bioethics and Singer and who would in fact feel they were somewhat edified about Singer’s historical and social position by this piece and might perhaps follow him across to his “on-line bioethics newsletter” where such readers might find more of interest to them.

      He might also, perusing the comments, feel satisfied at having perhaps instigated some genuine and interesting discussion involving individuals who haven’t previously given the area much thought.

      He might then look at the reaction of some readers and wonder if they would gain more satisfaction at http://www.anythingtohaveawhinge.wordpress.com

      He well might.

    • notSue says:

      01:58pm | 13/02/11

      @Bill. Are you “some dude’s” publicist? ha!

    • ZSRenn says:

      11:43am | 11/02/11

      I could have gone my whole life without hearing about this guy! If he is the Philosopher of our age. We are in deep shit!

      Hey there is a thought maybe I could walk up on stage have a shit and talk about it’s meaning. It may not make me a great philosopher but If this guy is making money with his dribble. I am a shoe in with mine!

    • Carmen Jones says:

      11:54am | 11/02/11

      In response to Zac de Spudnut, atheism is not a religion, it’s simply the claim that there is no good reason or evidence to believe in a God.

      And atheism does not lead to moral anarchy. Societies with high levels of non-belief, such as the Scandanavian countries and Australia, operate just as ethically as highly religious countries, often more so.

      Moreover, if we really did derive our morality from, e.g., the Bible, then we’d be obliged to execute people for such “crimes” as blasphemy and adultery. Believers cherry-pick their holy books for the ethical rules they choose to follow, on the basis of pre-existing moral values derived from biology and society. And Confucius taught the Golden Rule hundreds of years before Jesus was even born.

      We do not need the inflexible and bigoted dogmas of religion in order to behave ethically. All we need are empathy, compassion and reason.

    • James1 says:

      12:00pm | 11/02/11

      Zac just has a problem with people thinking differently to him, like all authoritarians do.  Just ignore him, rather than attempting to engage.

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      12:53pm | 11/02/11

      James1,

      Authoritarians or tyrants are all mostly Atheist, so take it up with fellow Atheists. When you engage gems like these - “Atheists believe in a non-interfering god” -  will make its way through. Let me ask you this like I ask all Atheists. If you guys are all about rationality, logic and science then what have you got to fear?

    • James1 says:

      01:16pm | 11/02/11

      I don’t believe in any god, Zac, interfering or otherwise.  Why are you so against a belief system you haven’t even taken the time to understand?

      I can name you hundreds of religious authoritarians from history just off the top of my head.  But I am going to follow my own advice, and not engage you any further.

    • Carmen Jones says:

      01:47pm | 11/02/11

      Thanks James1. Good advice. But I see you couldn’t resist responding. wink And neither can I!

      Zac - we all have plenty to fear from religious zealots, as 9/11 demonstrated so tragically.

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      02:12pm | 11/02/11

      Carmen Jones,

      In response to Zac de Spudnut, atheism is not a religion, it’s simply the claim that there is no good reason or evidence to believe in a God.>>>

      Here is why Atheism is a religion…..

      “Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

      The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

      A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

      Ref:  Court rules atheism a religion

      “Legally atheism counts as a religion” – John Perkins, Atheist Foundation of Australia *

      “THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart after being refused permission to put atheist advertising on buses”.*

      * The Age, January 29, 2009

      Atheists often claim that their belief is not a religion. This allows them to propagate their beliefs in settings where other religions are banned, but this should not be so.

      Contemporary Western Atheism unquestionably has six of the seven dimensions of religion set forth by Smart, and the remaining dimension, ritual, has also started to develop. Thus it’s fallacious to assert, “Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour”. Perhaps a better analogy would be calling a shaved head a “hairstyle”. Other than the denial of the divine, there is little difference between Atheism and other worldviews typically labelled as religions.

      The dichotomy that Atheists try to create between science and religion is false. The conflict is between interpretations of science coming from different religious worldviews.

      Atheism shouldn’t be taught or enforced in settings where other religions are banned and shouldn’t be favoured by laws which imply a religiously neutral government.

      For more on this read: Atheism: A religion

      http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

    • James1 says:

      02:25pm | 11/02/11

      Carmen,

      This might amuse:

      http://xkcd.com/386/

      Captures the feeling perfectly.

    • Carmen Jones says:

      02:48pm | 11/02/11

      Thanks James. That is indeed perfect!

      Zac - I hesitate to continue this probably pointless exchange, but even though some may consider atheism a religion, I do not. And in the context of this article about morality, and specifically your original comment, the key point is that one does not require a supernatural-based religious belief to behave ethically. And there is plenty of evidence for that.

    • Sara says:

      03:05pm | 11/02/11

      <3 James1

      There is always an appropriate XKCD comic, no matter what the situation.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      03:09pm | 11/02/11

      Absolutely right about the false dichotomy between religion and science. Can’t remember who said it but its a quote that stayed with me because it captured the thoughts of many scientists and people of faith.

      “Anyone who plays religion and science against each other knows very little about either subject”

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      03:49pm | 11/02/11

      Carmen, listen to me. James1 is wiser than you think.

      Avoid eye contact, no sudden motion as it might set it off

      Now, move (slowly) away from the troll. Logic and reason are known to aggravate it. Do not use these gifts.

      Clear now? Good. Relax. Have a look at the cartoon from James1, quite funny and very apt.

    • Zac de Spudnut says:

      01:23pm | 13/02/11

      Carmen Jones.

      Zac - I hesitate to continue this probably pointless exchange, but even though some may consider atheism a religion, I do not.>>>

      I know it is quite hard when proven wrong. When confronted with proofs the best deflection is to claim “I do not”. Seems to me the Atheist trade mark tools like rationality and logic is not helping.

      And in the context of this article about morality, and specifically your original comment, the key point is that one does not require a supernatural-based religious belief to behave ethically.>>>

      Not sure if I should believe you or Richard Dawkins…..

      “If somebody used my views to justify a completely self-centred lifestyle, which involved trampling all over other people in any way they chose. . . I think I would be fairly hard put to it to argue on purely intellectual grounds.  . . I couldn’t, ultimately, argue intellectually against somebody who did something I found obnoxious.  I think I could finally only say, “Well, in this society you can’t get away with it” and call the police.”

      Ref: Dawkins, ‘Nick Pollard talks to Dr. Richard Dawkins’, Thirdway, April 1995, vol 18, no 3

    • Bryan says:

      12:19pm | 11/02/11

      Peter Singer is a very smart guy. But he holds some very curious views - for me - anyway. Throwing ideas, comments and concepts out there is always good. Everything should be challenged because in doing so you strengthen knowledge and challenge new horizons.

      However, coming to your own conclusions using your own intellectual capacity is priceless, it is a pre requisite for a persons self worth, belief and independence. If you are not capable of this and lack the mental dexterity, then following the leader will always be perilous. There are many topics today in the public arena that require this and unfortunately far too many people allow others to do their thinking for them.

    • Carla says:

      11:28am | 12/02/11

      Agree Bryan.
      The point of the exercise is the process by which we question our existing ethical constructs/assumptions - it is not right or wrong to ask such questions in & of themselves, from what I understand Singer puts such questions to the audience to encourage us to analyze HOW & WHY we consider them right/wrong, ethical/unethical & if they are in fact valid.
      If this process did not happen in human society on an ongoing bases we would not have evolved from such horrible practices as British & American slavery & the religious mass murders of the Spanish Inquisition - & such terrors still exist today in variant forms.
      For this reason, questioning human behaviours & religious & ethical constructs is always necessary & relevant as relying on the dogma of religion (in all its forms) or the assumption that evolution has made it so is simply insufficient.
      It is up to each individual at the end of the day to try to think beyond their immediate/learned response to such concepts, wherever it leads them, otherwise the human society as a whole would fail to evolve.

    • Ray says:

      01:13pm | 11/02/11

      Michael Cook concludes: The time has come for a philosophical Dorothy to draw the curtain on this Wizard of Oz.

      Given that Peter Singer holds the view that newborn babies and some intellectually disabled humans are not persons,  obviously one is entitled to think that Singer has entered the phase of his life where he is in irreversible intellectual decline and about to become a non-person, even though he may be still alive..
      .

    • Lou says:

      03:35pm | 11/02/11

      But does he really believe it? Or is he just contemplating their validity as ideas & asking everyone to challenge their own thoughts of morality, to see where the limits of ‘good’ and ‘bad’/right and wrong lie?

      Seems to me that he is a philosopher that in reality, doesn’t believe what he says, maybe it’s for the money, maybe it’s just to stimulate debate but really, if he was a true supporter of infantcide, incest & beastiality, do you think people would still go to watch him speak?

      If he moved out of the realm of hypothetical philosophising, and into the real world, if he encouraged people to commit infantcide, or have sex with their siblings or animals, or even if he came out and said that he practised or believed in the controversial things he said, the people who agree with him now would probably realise that their moral compass does not agree with anything Peter Singer says, if it is taken out of the hypothetical.

    • Dan says:

      02:23pm | 11/02/11

      Peter Singer has a belly button, so do I, so do you.

      (be wary of the people who assume they are always smarter than you)

    • James1 says:

      02:45pm | 11/02/11

      He does indeed.  Peter Singer has a Professor chair in philosophy at Princeton.  Do you have one of those?  I know I don’t.

    • retronath says:

      03:22pm | 11/02/11

      oh come on… what is “loopy” about transhumanism?

      Upgrading the body and mind beyond human sounds awesome.

    • Whichwitch says:

      04:17pm | 11/02/11

      As a former student of Peter Singer I have nothing but praise for his intents agree with James 1 above which puts it well when he states the following:
        don’t think you are wrong Dan.  Singer is more inclined towards getting us to question our ethical assumptions, so as to gain a better understanding of the basis of human ethics.

        Of course, people (like TB below) characterise this as an attempt to change the nature of ethics - I’m not sure that it is.  Questioning the basis of something can often lead to a stronger basis being discovered.

      The media does not respond to good news - so like me I have found if you want to get your message across you need to stand out from the mob. 
      Whichwitch am I?

    • Pickles says:

      04:38pm | 11/02/11

      Modern Philosophy seems to be the ideal profession for a Professional Troll. Might as well get paid for it I guess…

    • Bill says:

      07:00pm | 11/02/11

      true but would you rate it above Economics for trolling power?

    • Brad From Dunsborough says:

      05:34pm | 11/02/11

      I got about half way through the comments before i felt positively sicked by you people.

      I’m an atheists, this article had little to do with atheism. The fact that you people are so hung up on someone else’s beliefs you dive into critisising them in conversations that are completely irrelevant sais alot about yourselves.

      Gay Marriage is an agreement between two parties who are both consenting adults, can offer legally binding contracts and are emotionally capable of love. Parents sexually abusing their kids is damaging. Some of you should be ashamed.

    • stephen says:

      12:20am | 12/02/11

      He’s a second rate intelligence.
      I’ve read his stuff, and it all comes down to choice : if you like it it’s bad, and if you don’t, it’s good.
      His ‘a priori’ is in his mind. The questions he leaves you with are furphies.
      (His conclusions are so subjective, that any reader is bound to query his premise.)

      Sorry. So much bunkum is hard to critisize, not to mention excuse.

    • mary monica roche says:

      10:12am | 12/02/11

      Peter Singer doesn’t have to say or do much to become Australia’s greatest ever philosopher.The Philiosophy cupboard is pretty bare.

    • jk1295@hotmail.com says:

      04:15pm | 12/02/11

      I’ve met better ‘philosophers’ than Singer in many pubs over the years. He is a posturing fake through and through. The shock jock spouting child like notions and then retreating saying in effect ‘of course It is personally not acceptable to me.

    • Waynevan says:

      06:14pm | 12/02/11

      Wouldn’t it be nice to live in Dr Singers hypothetical world? Where sex can be completely without any psychological or emotional affects. Surely in this day and age we’ve gone beyond believing that a little rubber sheath rolled over your willie (provided it is applied correctly and doesn’t burst) will make any sexual encounter completely problem-free. Apparently Dr Singer hasn’t

    • Reg says:

      11:54am | 14/02/11

      @Waynevan.

      Sometimes it takes a considerable jolt to wrest the smugly satisfied out of their torper into the light of reality. The Bible uses the same tool with somewhat less effect, having to rely mostly on fear of the unknown and the punishment of God and ill omens, to render they community inactive.

    • Another Armchair Skeptic says:

      02:23am | 13/02/11

      Hmmm. Ok I will bite.

      Michael Cook’s article is no doubt well-intended, as is most of the commentary. But frankly, at best all of this serves to cement the reputation of a philosopher who - as someone else already stated - is a secondary intellect and hardly a philosopher of note, even by our less-than-impressive Australian standards.

      What is far worse however, is that the discussion of Singer occupies that tiny niche in public discourse reserved for philosophy, and important ethical debates. A damaging waste at best.

      Just like most academic atheists won’t (in fact can’t) take Richard Dawkins’ risible diatribes seriously, moral philosophy should not (in my view can not) take Singer seriously. Just check a real book or peer-reviewed publication.

      Why?

      A comprehensive answer explodes the narrow confines of a comment here, but suffice it to point out two things:

      Firstly, both (old, privileged, white English speaking men) work with false dichotomies that never had legs or have been dismissed and/or superseded for good reasons.
      Dawkins’ arguably biggest chestnut: pretending there is a “reason vs science” problem, and then framing it in shallow determinist materialism. Singer’s: a pseudo-rational utilitarianism that operates on a kind of reverse anthropomorphism, and based on a ludicrously primitive positivism à la Vienna Circle, ca. 1920.

      Secondly, both deploy profoundly irrational and/or polemical rhetorics when describing what they disagree with. They are either too radicalised or dumb (or both) to acknowledge, let alone engage valid scientific (and other) counter- perspectives. That is both unfair and cowardly - and also not academic.

      A journalist like Christopher Hitchens may be forgiven for viciously biting off a strawman’s ear and passing it off as the real thing. Scientists and philosophers may not (unless they are qixotic French intellectuals - just kidding) .

      Let’s be frank. Polemical ideologues like the execrable Mssrs Singer and Dawkins foster anti-intellectualism and stifle true, urgently necessary debate about burning issues – by pretending to do just that.

      They also have the same type of grotesquely aggressive, talibanesque followers that only a true demagogue will find, so I look forward to the imbecilic flaming my comment will no doubt generate (:

    • AT says:

      03:13pm | 13/02/11

      Well, okay AAS, I suppose you argued the premise of this article better than the author did, but you still sound just as jealous as Michael Cook and you haven’t adequately explained why you think Singer is a “secondary intellect”.

      You complain about the all-powerful Singer occupying the “tiny niche in public discourse reserved for philosophy”, but offer nothing as an alternative. Why don’t you proffer some of those “true, urgently necessary debate[s] about burning issues” which you claim Singer and Dawkins stifle? If they’re that true, urgent and necessary surely the masses will discourse the guts out of them.

      You make philosophy sound like an esoteric pursuit for the connoisseur; “check a real book or peer-reviewed publication” you implore us. Why? Must thought itself pass through the musty cloisters of academia for sanction before the proletariat’s neurons be allowed to spark?

      I’m sure your reference to “primitive positivism à la Vienna Circle, ca. 1920” is a very telling jibe, but if you want to engage the ‘discoursing public’ you’d do better to talk about the tuckshop Vienna Slice, ca. 1974. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it’s a very worthy debate, but it really does sound like nerds arguing about who is the best Star Trek captain.

      Lamenting Singer’s populism is one thing, but don’t blame him for the disinterest in your elitist posturing. And you’ll note the most “grotesquely aggressive” comments on this blog, apart from the religious nutters, have come from your side of the debate.

    • Reg says:

      08:46am | 14/02/11

      As a mere mortal there are two designations I have come despise. One is the Philosopher and the other is the Theologists. Admittedly both adopted from life experience and not by an immersion in the endless stream of their manipulation.

      Every Greek I’ve ever met has regarded himself as a Philosopher whinnying in the wind hoping for a shower of Ancient Greek wisdom to fall from above. It never did.  The noble perception I have of Philosophy is that it is outward- looking, leading an individual out of himself into areas of the unexplored. Unexplored because of self-imposed constraints or restraints imposed by others.

      Theology on the other hand, is far less noble because it is the opposite. A distortion of philosophical concepts intended to bring the individual to a state of looking inwards and NOT exploring the unexplored. The goal of reducing the individual to that of a seeker of belief in the divine unknown with least possible interaction with the world.

      Mr Singer’s presentation is that of the outward-looking, in much the same way as Biblical tracts expect the individual to be outward looking in order to discover the world that had never previously considered, then having reached the pliable condition, to have their thoughts narrowed to the point of rejecting all worldly values and concepts.

      Considering the opposing goals of Philosophers and Theologists, using the very same tools, I am not at all surprised to hear the Theologists up in arms at their task being made more arduous by Mr Singer provocation.

    • Lola says:

      12:54pm | 14/02/11

      I think Peter Singer is just an attention seeker. He knows he can say these things and get attention from them.

    • Joanne King says:

      06:10am | 21/06/11

      Methinks Mr Cook protesteth too loud.

    • Ruby says:

      10:33pm | 17/04/12

      In the context of the rest of the comments this is a bit off topic but what’s with the authors jab at vegetarians/vegans as not being well-fed? Does he not know about vegetables? Fruits? Grains? This is worrying. I guess non-vegetarians just have that ‘ruddy’ look that accompanies an increased risk of heart disease.

 

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