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Our neighbours kill captives. What’s the way forward?

Andrew Beswick

by Andrew Beswick

10 Oct 05:45am

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Filed under: Andrew Chan, Asia, Bali Nine, Death Penalty, Execution

67 comments

Australian Dominic Bird from Perth is likely to face a death penalty trial in Malaysia in December on drug charges. Meanwhile, Melbourne nurse Emma Louise L’Aiguille is also being held in a Malaysian women’s prison on similar charges, following her arrest on 17 July.

On death row in Bali… Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumuran. Picture: Lukman S Bintoro

Fellow Australians facing execution in Bali, Myuran Sukumuran and Andrew Chan, have lodged their final appeal for clemency to the Indonesian President. These cases have refocused Australia’s attention on capital punishment across the Asia Pacific.

While there is a strong trend towards abolishing the death penalty in the region, a few of our neighbours continue to apply the ultimate inhumane punishment.

Antiquated and out of touch are hardly words that come to mind when thinking of Japan, one of the most technologically advanced and developed countries in the region, if not the world. And yet the Government has proved itself not only outdated, but cruel, in resuming the archaic practice of state-sanctioned execution.

In 2011 Japan raised hopes that it was moving away from the death penalty when it made it through the year without carrying out a single execution, in spite of the harrowing 131 people that remain on death row.

Just late last month, however, two death row inmates were hanged, including the first woman to be executed in more than 15 years – bringing the total number of executions in the country this year to seven people.

Executions are mostly carried out in secret and families are only notified after the execution has taken place. As well as this devastating practice, prisoners on death row are subjected to an extremely cruel practice of never knowing if, or when, they will be put to death, leading to enormous anxiety and mental stress.

They are forced to await execution every day, facing a sentence that could be enforced at only a few hours notice, tipping many into insanity.

Each day could be their last and the arrival of a prison officer with a death warrant would signal their execution within hours.

The fact that only a handful of countries in the Asia-Pacific carried out executions last year is an encouraging sign that governments in our region are questioning the legitimacy of this degrading and irreversible punishment.

In July this year, Singapore moved towards ending the mandatory death sentencing for drug trafficking and homicide cases, and placed a moratorium on executions until proposed changes in the law are enacted.

This is a significant and remarkable move and follows years of campaigning from anti-death penalty lawyers and activists in Singapore. No easy feat, and one that was unthinkable as recently as 2005 when Australian, Van Tuong Nguyen, was executed by hanging in Changi prison.

For the third year running, Indonesia also recorded no executions in 2011, although there are estimated to be over 100 on death row, including Sukumuran and Chan.

A special task force has reportedly been created to look at the situation of Indonesian nationals facing the death penalty in other countries. The Manpower and Transmigration Minister, Muhaimin Iskandar, has said the government has sought clemency on behalf of Indonesian nationals on death row abroad.

Around much of the Asia Pacific, the trend is the same, with no recorded executions last year in Brunei Darussalam, India, Laos, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, Pakistan, South Korea, Sri Lanka or Thailand.

The issue of state executions was also debated at the national level in Malaysia, South Korea and Taiwan.

While still accounting for the majority of the world’s executions, in 2011 the Chinese authorities continued to shroud the country’s use of the death penalty in secrecy.

State-owned media coverage of several high profile cases sparked intense discussion within China, however in the absence of published official statistics, this occurred without the facts needed to inform the debate.

Contrast with the Pacific, which remained a death penalty-free area in 2011, with the exception of five death sentences in Papua New Guinea.

Increasingly, governments are recognising that the death penalty represents the greatest violation of all human rights – the right to life – and that it does not provide for any protection against crime.

The death penalty is irrevocable and, when coupled with a justice system that is prone to human error and prejudice, the risk of executing an innocent person looms large.

Japan’s resumption of executions is a retrograde step that runs counter to universal protection of human rights, and against the Asia-Pacific trend of abolition of the death penalty, but it is not unrealistic to aim for complete abolition of the death penalty in Asia.

Australia as a regional partner has a strong role to play and must take a principled and consistent approach to the abolition of the death penalty, regardless of the nationality of those facing execution, or their crime.

The death penalty remains the ultimate denial of human rights whether it is imposed for drug trafficking, murder or terrorism.

Ten years ago it was unthinkable that the death penalty would even be debated, let alone abolished in some countries in the Asia-Pacific. It is now conceivable that in the next ten years, this may well be realised across the entire region.

Comments on this post close at 8pm AEST.

Most commented

67 comments

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    • acotrel says:

      04:59am | 10/10/12

      Colin Ross was ‘fitted up’ for political expediency !

      Reply

    • Nathan says:

      05:06am | 10/10/12

      I personally hate the death penalty but i don’t think it is the Australian government place to tell a nation to stop it. I would personally prefer the government work on trade agreements and trying to solve the boat people problem for example than get under these countries skin by preaching at them which will not work and likely to strengthen the resolve to keep it in place.

      What would be unethical is to pressure these countries yet say nothing to the US on the topic.

      Reply

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:16am | 10/10/12

      This.  We can say we don’t like it, we can provide evidence why it’s bad, and we can help countries that would like help.  We can’t run it for them.

    • Carz says:

      07:40am | 10/10/12

      “What would be unethical is to pressure these countries yet say nothing to the US on the topic.”

      Oh but surely we can’t ask our greatest ally to stop inhumane practices? (where is the sarcasm font??)

    • fromage67 says:

      07:53am | 10/10/12

      +1 Nathan. No mention of the US at all in the article.

    • Alfie says:

      08:01am | 10/10/12

      While I don’t condone the death penalty, I respect the rights of other countries to make and administer their own laws. If you don’t obey and respect their laws while you are in their country, you suffer the consequences.

    • marley says:

      08:19am | 10/10/12

      Frankly, I’d be utterly amazed if we were pressuring anyone bigger than us to abolish the death penalty.  I highly doubt our Ambassador in Tokyo is lecturing the Japanese on the issue.

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:12am | 10/10/12

      Nathan is absolutely right (as well as Alfie, Mahhrat and many others). Little more needs to be said.

      I feel Australia is right in not having the death penalty, but I understand other countries may not have much choice, and I also acknowledge that Australia has the added luxuries of relative isolation from regional instability and crime groups, and more funding to spare for alternative methods of justice.

      Australia may have many ethical shortcomings in the eyes of these countries’ citizens- yet you never hear any of them whinge about it. We can simply set an example and let these countries run in the way they think best, without being berated over the one issue that Australia can act like it has a high-horse about.

      It is doubly bad that our ‘concern’ for the death penalty mostly revolves around when an Australian citizen is involved- otherwise it seems we don’t care. Never a good look.

    • subotic says:

      09:41am | 10/10/12

      I personally LOVE the death penalty but i KNOW it is NOT the Australian government’s place to tell a nation to stop it. EVER.

      When do we as a nation stop trying to “out-Team-America” Team America?

      The world already has a Cop Nation who bully the world around and tell it what to do or not do. Since when do want to follow suite? Huh?

      Mind our own goddamn business already. It doesn’t happen here, so shut up, be happy….

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      02:30pm | 10/10/12

      Good point sub, plus I’d hazard a guess that no other nations really give a shit about what we have to say, why would they?

      Why is the death penalty a bad thing where someone has been proven to commit a heinous crime? I can’t see anywhere in the article where the author mentions what the people in, say Japan, have done to get the death penalty. As far as I’m concerend you forfeit your ‘human rights’, whatever the shit that means, when you make a decision to take someones life.

      Ethics is a human creation, the world is overpopulated, and keeping the scum alive costs money. A bullet costs a few cents. We need to stop pretending that we’re some kind of righteous life form that has a monopoly on good and evil in the universe and grow a collective pair.

    • paul says:

      02:54pm | 10/10/12

      @Nathan when we cant even tell the US that mass murder serial killing of hundreds and thousands of arabs is wrong, what hope would we have telling them a couple of executions in there own country is wrong.

    • paul says:

      04:10pm | 10/10/12

      @ Admiral Ackbar actually keeping the scum alive has become a very profitable industry. US has 7.1 million prisoners (25% of the worlds prison population), Prisons are know run by private corporations with massive lobbying firms that has most state senators in there pocket. It costs 50,000 a year to house each inmate.
      Executing a few people really does nothing for overpopulation.

    • ramases says:

      05:39pm | 10/10/12

      I actually think its comical that Australia should be trying to tell others how to run their county when this Government cant run this one. The hypocrisy is outstanding.
        The death penalty is not on my radar as a particular subject of conversation but I do believe that it is warranted in certain cases and should always be an option. Of course there will be those who who disagree with that but hey, that’s my feelings on the matter.
      The other thing is, if you knowingly commit a crime in another country that has the Death Penalty and your crime puts you in the situation where it can be applied then that’s stupidity on your part and no fault of the country that is trying or has tried you. The old saying of you do the crime you do the time also includes being executed according to the laws of the land if those laws apply. Of course due process must be observed and all mitigating circumstances taken into account but in the end it is the Judicial System of sovereign nations that makes the intimate decision and we should keep out of their affairs however strongly some of us feel.

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      05:21am | 10/10/12

      Not politically correct and assuming that they are guilty, I think and care more about the pain, suffering, tragedy and sometimes death that good Australian families have to go through when their children become hooked on the drugs supplied by these low life’s and their associates. 

      These people are not Australian’s they are tragedy traffickers and I wish Amnesty International could find better and more worthwhile causes than support these scum (again, assuming they are guilty).

      Reply

    • Trevor says:

      08:21am | 10/10/12

      Tradegy traffickers? More people are killed by alcohol and nicotine by far than illegal drugs for which people are executed. Shall we string up all those tobacco execs along with the Bundy bear?

      One man’s ‘drug dealer’ is another man’s entrepreneur. Hell, James packed should be getting a bullet to the back of his head with all the tragedy he’s trafficked through his casino empire.

    • marley says:

      10:12am | 10/10/12

      @Trevor - have a look at the situation in Mexico.  There, it isn’t about the drugs killing people, it’s about organised crime killing people.  It’s about all the criminality that festers around drug trafficking - money laundering, extortion, political corruption and yes, murder.  Whether we agree or not with the use of drugs, no one can agree that those involved in major criminal enterprises is just another entrepreneur.

    • LC says:

      10:21am | 10/10/12

      Like it or not Trevor, those are the laws of that land. Those people committed a crime they knew was punished there by death, they got caught, and now the fake tears start, begging for Gillard and Co. to bail them out. Rest assured, if they are let out, they wouldn’t change. They’d just try harder not to get caught next time.

      Don’t like the laws of a country? Don’t go there.

      Prohibition isn’t the nicest policy, agreed. Sadly, Australia and likely SE Asian countries have signed UN agreements to keep it in force well into the future, and if they pull out of them now there will be ramifications.

    • Trevor says:

      10:54am | 10/10/12

      Hey I’m not arguing the point that people need to observe the laws of the lands that they visit, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of calling drug dealers ‘tragedy traffickers’ when in reality drugs cause less tragedy than other ‘legal’ industries. Heck, look at the US military industrial complex- now there is an example of tragedy trafficking. This is rhetoric straight out of the 50s reefer madness hysteria. What about casinos, big pharma, Alan Jones or the fashion industry? All are more deserving of this title than the drug dealers who dare to meet a market in escapism.

      And Marley, from the dictionary:

      en·tre·pre·neur? ?/??ntr?pr??n?r, -?n??r; Fr. ??tr?pr??nœr/ Show Spelled [ahn-truh-pruh-nur, -noor; Fr. ahn-truh-pruh-nœr] Show IPA noun, plural en·tre·pre·neurs ?/-?n?rz, -?n??rz; Fr. -?nœr/ Show Spelled[-nurz, -noorz; Fr. -nœr] Show IPA, verb
      noun
      1. a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, especially a business, usually with considerable initiative and risk.
      2. an employer of productive labor; contractor.

      In consideration of the first definition, applying the death penalty to drug dealers greatly increases the risk and also the initiative required to successfully operate. One could argue that by this definition drug dealers are even more entreprenurial than those in legal industries! I watched Mexican Drug Wars on National Geographic the other night, they are now launching bales of cannabis over the border with roman style catapults- now that is initiative!

    • Bertrand says:

      01:14pm | 10/10/12

      @marley - “It’s about all the criminality that festers around drug trafficking - money laundering, extortion, political corruption and yes, murder.”

      Those issues you highlight are a side-effect of prohibition. A legalised and strictly regulated market would remove most of these negative side effects. If you have an issue with organised crime you should have an ssue with the way prohibition empowers them.

      That being said, people who traffic drugs in SE Asia do so knowing full well what the risks are. I’m all for pushing for a worldwide change in our approach to illicit drugs, but until then, people who run the risks will have to deal with the consequences.

    • marley says:

      01:39pm | 10/10/12

      @Bertrand - I don’t disagree with you, which is why I was addressing more the nature of the criminal organisation than of the drugs themselves.

      That said, legalisation with strict regulations may not be the panacea a lot of people imagine.  There’s huge involvement by organised crime, especially bikie gangs, in cross-border smuggling between Canada and the US.  Gang wars, shootings, tax evasion, money laundering, all of the issues I mentioned in relation to drugs.  The product being smuggled?  Cigarettes.

    • Bertrand says:

      02:06pm | 10/10/12

      @marley - and I don’t disagree with you that there aren’t going to be issues with legalised regulation!

      I do, however, think that the prohibition experiment has been an utter failure on every count and it is time we tried something else. We have recognised this with every other vice - alcohol, gambling, prostitution, and realised that a regulated system is better than a black market one. We certainly haven’t got the model right with any of them, but it is far better for production and supply to exist within a proper legal framework than not.

    • marley says:

      02:16pm | 10/10/12

      @Bertrand - fundamentally, I agree with you. I can’t see why pot and some of the soft drugs shouldn’t be legalised, sold to the public, and taxed appropriately.  But unless all our neighbours do the same (and we both know they won’t), the criminal element will still continue to flourish and stupid Aussies are still going to swallow condoms full of drugs for a pay-off by a drug gang and we’re still going to be reading about people facing the death penalty for it.

    • Trevor says:

      02:20pm | 10/10/12

      Marley,

      About the trafficking of cigarettes, the same thing happens here with chop chop.

      I would suggest that the government have gotten a little bit greedy with their heavy taxation of that particular product. There is a ‘goldilocks zone’ where people are happy to pay the extra tax, but try to tax it too much and people will revert to buying the cheaper illegal stuff. Its a delicate balance.

    • Lachlan says:

      05:33am | 10/10/12

      Vietnam won’t get rid of the death penalty, neither will Singapore, nor Indonesia and we rightfully have no say in what other countries do.  I know what Australians would say if these countries dared to tell us what our internal policy should be.

      I don’t care that a terrorist is deprived of his ‘ultimate human rights’.  They didn’t care about their victims.  They didn’t respect the ultimate human rights of the Australians in Bali. The drug traffickers don’t care about how many people they kill, they only care about themselves. Profiting from the killing of others should be abhorrent, but for some reason we want to make excuses for them and bring them home.

      Amnesty International should start caring more about the ultimate human rights of victims and their families and not support those of terrorists and criminals.

      Reply

    • cheap white trash says:

      06:06am | 10/10/12

      Our neighbours keep killing captives. Not cool, guys,
      Since when?
      Who’s country is it?do the crime do the time and if that crime comes with a death sentence so be it.
      It’s there country,and they have every right to inforce the law as they see it,in of story.
      Its just a shame this country doesn’t have the balls to reintroduce the death penalty here.Shame

      Reply

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:17am | 10/10/12

      Quite true- I can’t help but sniff some xenophobia in a statement regarding Australian convicts overseas as ‘captives’, as if they were simply ‘captured’ by an enemy or some criminals, rather than charged with a crime.

      Every country has the right to extend its own legal standards on everybody within its jurisdiction. And South East Asian countries systems are perfectly legitimate.

      That aside, we would expect no different from everybody within our own country.

    • Carz says:

      06:17am | 10/10/12

      If you go into a country with the intention of committing a crime for which the death penalty is a possible outcome then you deserve no sympathy at all. Its stupidity and a severe case of disrespect for the country that you are visiting. And it isn’t as if these countries hide the fact that you may be subject to the death penalty if you are caught. Grow up and get a brain before you buy your plane ticket. I’m not pro-death penalty but I am pro personal responsibility.

      Reply

    • dale says:

      06:37am | 10/10/12

      So we just give criminals a time out and send them on there merry way?

      If there is no risk or punishment then there will be more crime. the punishment should fit the crime.

      I bet you have never talked to victums of pedafiles, it is known they never reform. many are kept in prison after there sentences are over for there own protection.

      How about serial rapists? mass murderers? polititions?

      for some crimes people should be executed!
      cut the tree hugging crap, 1 apeal none of these expencive drugs to kill them. Cremate them and throw the dust in a tip. no complaints that they didnt die.

      Reply

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:29am | 10/10/12

      More importantly dale, we send another important message that people face the law of whatever country they are in, rather than believing we will bend the rules around them because we let sentimentality, nationalism or xenophobia to trump notions of law and justice.

      Why so many people who complained the AFP should have covered up the Bali Nine’s activities so they could get a more lenient sentence, (rather than cooperate with the country we asked for help) do not understand this is beyond me.

    • Dan says:

      11:02am | 10/10/12

      I assume polititions is politicians.

      They might be a disgrace at times but I put them in a completely different league to mass murderers, serial rapists and paedophiles.

    • Achmed says:

      07:24am | 10/10/12

      The people being denied the most basic of human rights are the victims of these people who have intentionally broken the law in an effort to make a profit off the suffering of their victims.

      They showed no remorse or empathy for their victims while committing their crimes until they were caught.  And now people expect they should be shown sympathy.  What a load of bleeding heart crap-trap.

      Reply

    • Robinoz says:

      07:30am | 10/10/12

      There are some people whose crimes are so horrific that a death penalty is probably the only worthwhile outcome. People who peddle hard drugs are doing something that results in the deaths of dozens of youths per year when it’s imported to Australia.  When they meddle with drugs or murder people in countries where the death penalty applies, they can’t expect to be treated differently. If you don’t do the crime, you don’t do the time.

      Reply

    • Robinoz says:

      07:30am | 10/10/12

      There are some people whose crimes are so horrific that a death penalty is probably the only worthwhile outcome. People who peddle hard drugs are doing something that results in the deaths of dozens of youths per year when it’s imported to Australia.  When they meddle with drugs or murder people in countries where the death penalty applies, they can’t expect to be treated differently. If you don’t do the crime, you don’t do the time.

      Reply

    • Greg says:

      07:58am | 10/10/12

      The ultimate irony, talking about the human rights of murderers, terrorists and drug dealers.  What about the right to life of their victims?

      If you commit crimes in countries with the death penalty don’t complain when they try and enforce that penalty.  People who try and smuggle drugs in places like that really enforce Darwin’s theory that the stupid will kill themselves off.

      Reply

    • Mack says:

      08:12am | 10/10/12

      Too bad, not sad. Peddle drugs, pay the penalty, especially if you’re stupid enough to do it in a country with the death penalty. And why do these people think our government should then step in to save them?

      Reply

    • LC says:

      08:14am | 10/10/12

      They knew the penalties for breaking such laws, and they did so anyway. Now they’re paying the price. It’s none of our business getting involved, especially when our closest ally (the US) also has the death penalty in force and yet we don’t say a peep.

      Reply

    • Matchofbris says:

      08:20am | 10/10/12

      WTF. No.

      People don’t commit crimes, they don’t get executed. The end.

      The execution of innocent, wrongly/falsely convicted prisoners is the only area worthy of condemnation. Petition for more thorough reviews and processes to ensure mistakes don’t happen, not the end of the death sentence itself.

      Sick of all the victimisation of perpetrators, bleeding heart garbage.

      Reply

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:34am | 10/10/12

      Wrongful execution of an innocent person is the reason I don’t support the death penalty.

      Having said that I really do not feel sorry for someone who gets caught committing a crime that carries the death penalty in the country- even when the criminal is a foreigner used to being coddled by a more gentle system.

    • Brian says:

      12:43pm | 10/10/12

      There have been dozens of people exonerated after their execution worldwide, including in the UK and US (in the last half of the 20th century). We’re not talking ancient history, and these are only those cases in which someone cared enough after the execution to continue investigating - for every one we later find is innocent there are probably another two or three who no one ever considers looking into.

      There are definitely crimes worth death, but the death penalty is both irrevocable and takes away the option of compensating the person who is wronged. I would rather the guilty who deserve to die rot in jail than even one innocent be executed.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      02:35pm | 10/10/12

      “People don’t commit crimes, they don’t get executed.”

      Yep. Look at me, I’ve never trafficked drugs or murdered anyone and I haven’t been executed as far as I’m aware.

      If you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that someone is guilty then give them a lead sammich, or shoot them into space. I don’t care. Or, you know, Running Man that shit up. That way we could make money off them instead of throwing away our money in the interestes of keeping criminals fed and housed.

    • Steve of QBN says:

      08:34am | 10/10/12

      Gee, what a soppy article.  Points to remember here, EVERYONE knows you do NOT smuggle drugs into or out of SE Asia because they will execute you if you get caught.  This is old news since the hangings of Chambers and Barlow in Singapore.  Do these idiots live in caves?  Do they not watch TV?  Or do they think the right people have been bribed and they will not get caught?

      Go to the US, go to those states that still have the death penalty and murder someone.  Why act surprised when you get handed the death penalty?

      Do innocent people get executed?  Yes they do.  For that reason and that reason alone, the death penalty should be abolished but, like laws in “other countries”, it is up to the legislature of those countries to make up their own minds, not ours to “tut-tut” them.

      Reply

    • John says:

      09:09am | 10/10/12

      Thanks for highlighting the situation in Japan. They way they go about it is barbaric. Even people who support the death penalty should be appalled by their processes.

      Reply

    • Matchofbris says:

      09:28am | 10/10/12

      It’s more a lack of a process, or discernible process at least.

    • Kika says:

      09:26am | 10/10/12

      I’m actually pro death penalty. I don’t think drug crimes should be met with death penalty. Drugs are a health issue more than anything else. The criminals selling and trading should be dealt with under the justice system though. But for particularly heinous sex crimes and murder I don’t have an issue with it. Some of these mongrels can’t and won’t ever be rehabilitated and thowing them in jail does nothing - once they’re out they will do it again. Plus jails are the Universities of Crime - they meet up with other like minded individuals there and learn their craft.

      Reply

    • Freeman says:

      09:31am | 10/10/12

      Crime is a balance of risk verse reward. These countries feel they need the death penalty in order to manage crime and they probably do a better job than we do. Let me close be quoting Jim Carey in Liar Liar:

      “you want legal advise? stop breaking the law asshole!”

      Reply

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:33am | 10/10/12

      We keep producing drug mules who go to these countries to bring back packages death in order to make a few bucks - not cool guys.

      ‘Not Cool Guys’...is that supposed to highlight your ‘street cred’ ?? Why not attach a bloody LOLcat to the article while you are at it….I Can Haz Amnesty perhaps?

      Reply

    • AdamC says:

      09:35am | 10/10/12

      This is a pretty silly headline. One hopes it was some Punch intern’s silly idea, rather than the author’s. Or is it supposed to be ironic in some way?

      Reply

    • Yuri says:

      11:36am | 10/10/12

      But the more accurate title of “Our neighbours keep killing criminals who have been sentenced to death under their laws” isn’t very catchy. Although the title they went with isn’t exactly catchy either.

    • Brian says:

      09:38am | 10/10/12

      I don’t agree with the death penalty but neither do I think we should be telling other countries how to run their own outfits.
      Some claim drugs are a health issue but surely that doesn’t excuse those who want to make big money out of moving them around the globe.

      Reply

    • A Concerned Citizen says:

      09:45am | 10/10/12

      I am amazed that despite numerous reported problems with our own justice systems, varying from ineffective sentencing to dangerous offenders, to discrimination against Indigenous Australians (both worth looking into), we have people who are more passionate about berating other countries over the penalty because it is one of ethical issues we THINK we have a moral high-ground on.

      Even worse when people only become passionate about it when it involves an Australian Citizen getting caught and convicted by an Asian country.

      Reply

    • Ironside says:

      09:51am | 10/10/12

      What is more inhumane, locking someone in a cage for the rest of their natural life or the death penalty. If the courts have stated that an offenders behavior is so abhorrent to society that they should be removed from society forever why should we then pay for the next however many years for their incarceration. The death penalty is much more humane and cost effective.

      Reply

    • Brian says:

      12:53pm | 10/10/12

      Due to the additional safeguards required, appeals and the like (which still don’t always get it right), one of the arguments against the death penalty in the US is that it’s actually much more expensive than life imprisonment…

      And as far as which is more ‘humane’ - if they’re guilty I’m all for making them suffer by shutting in the cage for the rest of their life, and if they’re innocent I’d prefer they were kept alive somewhere so we can release them later if and when we determine the truth.

    • Stephen says:

      10:19am | 10/10/12

      I’m wondering who appointed Amnesty International the custodians of morals in the 21st century, and by what divine consciousness do they judge and condemn.

      The world is rife with injustice, if we measure the conduct of other nations against our own. And those same nations might say the same about us.

      Clean up our own rather dishevelled and choked back yard before we pontificate over the conduct of other nations. Our criminal justice system is hardly the apex of fairness.

      Reply

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:59pm | 10/10/12

      “Stephen says:

      10:19am | 10/10/12

      I’m wondering who appointed Amnesty International the custodians of morals in the 21st century”


      Why Amnesty itself did Stephen. And you too could be part of this self appointed group of moral custodians by simply clicking onto this link:  https://support.amnesty.org.au/member.php?p=member and ponying up the princely sum of $55 per year .

      Think of it, a lousy $55 and you too could force your opinions onto others at will for a full 12 months!!

      I mean, take a look at their own feed on their home page:

      Amnesty in Action

        Holly just demanded answers on sending asylum seekers to Nauru
        Eiler told the Bahraini government to release all political prisoners
        Eiler demanded Russia act to stop the bloodshed in Syria

      Young Holly is ‘demanding’ answers from the Australian govenrment about Nauru. Not asking or looking up any info for herself or even reading a paper etc but DEMANDING via a website…... and then we have Eiler demanding Russia do…stuff…..and another country to release prisoners…not any particular falsely imprisoned people but any and all of them that are or might be political….I’m sure both countries cabinets are in crisis meetings now wondering how they can quickly facilitate Eiler’s demands just as the Australian government is scrambling for the answers that Holly is demanding
       
      Its amazing what $55 can buy….for 12 months….

    • Andy of Sydney says:

      10:40am | 10/10/12

      Which is more inhumane? To kill a criminal, or to allow him out to rape and murder again?

      Which is more inhumane? To kill a criminal, or to deny him freedom for the rest of his life?

      Which is more inhumane? To kill a criminal, or to force everyday moms and dads to pay for his extravagant lifestyle for the rest of his life?

      Which is more inhumane? To laud a criminal and to criminalise his victims, or to punish the criminal and comfort his victims?

      Reply

    • Brian says:

      12:58pm | 10/10/12

      1. Life without parole stops this problem.

      2. That’s a very, very difficult call to make - I’d prefer to live caged than die myself. In any case, even if it ~is~ worse than death, so be it - they earned it.

      3. The evidence from the US is that the death penalty (with all of the appeals and the like required) is more expensive than life in prison.

      4. Where on earth did that come from? Not executing someone doesn’t mean lauding them, nor does it mean criminalising his victims.

      Some people do things which deserve death, there is no doubt of that, but the US is up to 141 (according to wikipedia) exonerated death row inmates, who knows how many innocents were executed because they didn’t have someone fighting for them?

    • lostinperth says:

      01:34pm | 10/10/12

      What is more inhumane? To kill a criminal, or give them the chance of redemption and re-entering society?

      What is more inhumane? To kill an innocent person wrongly convicted, or give them a chance to prove their innocence?

      What is more inhumane? To respect all human life, or kill some people to pander to the lynch mob or satisfy a political motive?

    • Carolyn says:

      10:56am | 10/10/12

      Don’t want to risk the death penalty or prison? Then don’t commit the crime - EASY!!.

      Being Australian doesn’t exempt us. Nor does it make us “special”. 

      Their country - their laws. Simple.

      Reply

    • Skep says:

      11:01am | 10/10/12

      Firstly, let me say that in general, I disagree with any form of the death penalty.

      That said, different cultures have different cultural views on this topic. Is it correct that we impose our moral values on other cultures? That one is too big to answer here.
      In these countries that do carry the death penalty, it is no secret that if you commit a crime that carries it, that is what you will get. Head over to Changi airport or Bali….there is nothing ambiguous about the penalties for drugs and yet we still think that because we are Australian (or whatever) that we will receive some special treatment.
      It is contrite, but, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

      Reply

    • Chopper knows says:

      11:29am | 10/10/12

      @Andrew, Nice piece of attempted “Imperialism”, but yours is just a written piece which carries little significance to the people in power.

      Reply

    • Sue says:

      11:32am | 10/10/12

      I was told on good authority that after the end of the war, the Nth Vietnamese sumarily executed anyone with drugs and placed a placard saying why those people were dead in the street. Apparently there is no longer a drug problem in the region once known as South Vietnam. Are there any lessons to be learnt here.
      Should we see drug addicts as nothing more that self indulgent and destructive to society.

      Reply

    • void says:

      12:29pm | 10/10/12

      Wow, I bet my life would be easier if I could see the world in strict black and white, as you seem to.

    • Utopia Boy says:

      12:50pm | 10/10/12

      Simple strategy for not being executed in a country with capital punishment:
      1. Don’t traffic drugs.
      2. Choose your international friends and associates carefully.
      3. See 1.

      Reply

    • Trevor says:

      02:14pm | 10/10/12

      4. Pay bribes to the correct officials.

    • bananabender56 says:

      02:35pm | 10/10/12

      Just wait until we introduce Sharia law into Australia - all sorts of nasty punishments will be available to the lawmakers. Might even take over from footy - saturday arvo stonings for adultery etc. (I can’t help having ‘Life of Brian’ flashbacks)

      Reply

    • Swamp Thing says:

      03:40pm | 10/10/12

      Always a chinese finger puzzle for the lefties this one & entertaining to boot watching the ideological contortions & spin.
      How to condemn a ‘barbaric practice’ (if white people where doing it) -the death penalty-  while preserving the right to authentic ‘cultural practices’ by Johnny foreigner?
      Don’t forget yer popcorn everybody. Let the hand wringing begin.

      Reply

    • Swamp Thing says:

      03:41pm | 10/10/12

      Bah! in any case -were not where!

      Reply
 
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