It seems that everyone is having their say on the impact of a carbon tax on low income earners, except low income earners themselves, the “ordinary” Australian workers on very modest rates of pay. I’m not referring to the $150K “middle-class battlers” of the Budget debate fretting over mortgages and private school fees, but the 20 per cent of the Australian workforce in low paid jobs, who may be taking home just $25K or $35K, and for whom a poorly designed carbon tax may be one blow too many to the family budget.

Carbon tax affects everyone. Illustration: Paul Newman.

United Voice represents over 120,000 of Australia’s lowest paid workers in industries like aged care, child care, cleaning, hospitality, tourism and security. We know what “cost of living” pressures really mean, because it is our members whose low pay forces them into making tough decisions like forgoing doctor’s visits or no longer buying meat, even on a full-time wage.

When there’s already nothing left at the end of the week - and while many of our jobs remained casualised and insecure - what will a price on carbon mean?

The presumption that, as a union, we will automatically support the Gillard Labor Government is wrong. We will do what’s best for our members, including holding a Labor-led government to account.

Our members are worried about climate change and what it will mean for them and their children. They want action by government. A large number of our members are in tourism, an industry singled out in the first Garnaut review as particularly vulnerable to decline. Our members also live in low-cost housing in areas like flood plains which were so devastated in the Queensland floods.

On the other hand we are also the group least able to invest in new technologies like solar panels, fuel efficient cars and new, more efficient appliances and also the least able to absorb any further impost on the cost of ordinary goods, via a carbon tax.

That’s why we will be pushing the Gillard Government hard to clearly set out how a price on carbon can be implemented without imposing an extra burden on workers.  Compensation must be the key to any carbon tax and must offset the cost for those low income workers most vulnerable to price changes.

Better, sustainable outcomes for low income earners - and the environment - can be achieved if some of the remaining 45 per cent of revenue is invested in renewable energy and smart solutions, in particular in mechanisms to make renewable energy products and services affordable for low-income workers.

Finally, there must be a properly funded “watchdog” to prevent profiteering or price gouging based on higher costs associated with the carbon tax. Unfortunately, as consumers we don’t trust all Australian businesses and we are concerned the tax may be used as an excuse to seek to increase profits by increasing prices beyond the tax’s real impact.

There’s been a great deal of fear-mongering over “cost of living” pressures by opponents of the tax which has left many workers both nervous and confused.

This should be kept in perspective; the biggest driver of recent increases in energy prices is actually multi-billion dollar investments in power distribution infrastructure.

That doesn’t mean low-income earners can afford even the estimated $300 a year more the tax will cost families; but it does mean the link between price pressures and a carbon tax should not be exaggerated. It is the responsibility of both sides of politics to present the facts, not the spin.

The ball is now in the Gillard Government’s court, despite Mr Abbott’s relentless calls for a new election as a referendum on the carbon tax.  We support action on climate change but we are determined to make sure low paid workers are heard - and that the Labor-led government is held to account if they are not.

196 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Erick says:

      06:00am | 23/06/11

      Ordinary Aussies are being heard on the carbon tax. Not through union officials or politicians, but in the polls and the comment sections of websites like this one.

      And ordinary Aussies clearly don’t like it at all. What is your union doing to stop Gillard and Brown?

    • TChong says:

      07:12am | 23/06/11

      Eck
      How to explain the rallies supporting the carbon tax?
      Many more people have attended those, than the infamous anti gillard rally at parliament house.
      To claim that those who support such measures are all chardonnay sipping commies is just as ridiculous as claiming Climate Deniers are all ignorant rednecks.

    • iain f says:

      07:13am | 23/06/11

      what really worrys me is this governments ability to plan and or impliment any policy without it ending up as a disaster. the unions need to forget thier political associating with labor over this and help protect the poorly paid and retired from this impending mess on our horizon.

    • acotrel says:

      07:26am | 23/06/11

      @Erick ‘What is your union doing to stop Gillard and Brown? ‘
      Most of the fellas will be voting for independents at the next election!

    • BlogBuster says:

      07:41am | 23/06/11

      Erick,

      Is there any group in society you do like?

    • Super D says:

      07:49am | 23/06/11

      Spot on Erick - when it comes to the Carbon Tax, ordinary Australians have delivered a resounding no, which is why the Government lied before the election and won’t hold a plebiscite now.  I’m half expecting the ALP to declare martial law sometime before the next election is due or to import some of Mugabe’s mates to act as poll scrutineers.

    • acotrel says:

      08:17am | 23/06/11

      @SuperD The LNP is often on about ‘waste’ by the government.  What would it be if we hold a plebiscite costing $80M, then Abbott gets into government and rescinds the result because it doesn’t suit him? Tony Abbott’s proposed plebiscite was simply a cunning stunt!

    • Against the Man says:

      08:39am | 23/06/11

      TChong do you have the numbers for the number of people that attended those rallies or are you fudging numbers again as per your ALP Masters’ instructions?

      I would like to know the numbers?

      I would like to also see the poll results that show overwhelming support for the carbon tax.

      Sorry Mr No-Credibility TChong, once again you are the weakest link. We have some not so nice door prices for you smile

    • rb says:

      08:40am | 23/06/11

      Erick says blah blah blah

    • Vaunted says:

      08:44am | 23/06/11

      TChong, ‘many more’ attending the YES rallies (and yes I checked out the Brisbane turnout for a confirmatory look-see) is highly contentious when the numbers are so obviously inflated in statements by organisers and reiterated by members of a compliant media. Your yes side is riddled with the hallmarks of extreme politics; misinformation, propaganda, the stifling of debate, the demonising of opponents and the spreading fear and anxiety based on the creation of bogeyman myths that, coincidentally, only the yes side can apparently save us from. Wake up and smell the doggy poo mate. You’re being used.

    • John says:

      08:50am | 23/06/11

      Erick post drivel in a mad dash to be first.
      as usual.

    • dovif says:

      08:57am | 23/06/11

      Looks like TChong lives in an alternate universe, he thinks there is strong support for the carbon tax,

      I knows that unions at requests of their ex-Boss, current ALP parliamentary member, asked their member to attend rally to support the ALP’s Carbon tax

      You got our back, and we will give you a safe seat, seem to be how the ALP works

    • Michael says:

      09:12am | 23/06/11

      Acotrel was Tony’s cunning stunt more or less cunning than Julia having knifed Rudd for the leadership and then reinstating the policy she urged him to dump?

    • Muttley says:

      10:08am | 23/06/11

      Michael, no it wasnt more cunning. But this is a discussion about carbon tax and once again the lib apologists seek to explain their leaders poor form by “the other side does stuff too you know….” a childish response. One bad act doesnt excuse another

    • Govt@FauxCitizen says:

      10:18am | 23/06/11

      @TChong, Get Up organised with rent a crowd and a few delusional hypocriticals from tribe tofu, wearing cow hide sandals made in India or China from slave labour after having parked their Prius hybrid cars with petrolium products everything.

    • Michael says:

      11:14am | 23/06/11

      Thanks muttley, i was interested in acotrel’s opinion on the cunningness of the stunts.

      Interesting that you connect my question to apologists smile

    • Tom says:

      12:45pm | 23/06/11

      @Michael, go and play in the toilets where you belong.

    • Michael says:

      01:51pm | 23/06/11

      What are you on about Tom?

    • Tom says:

      02:22pm | 23/06/11

      The alliteration you keep hammering on about just ain’t funny. It is offensive. You too acetrol, you are better than that.

    • Erick says:

      02:52pm | 23/06/11

      @Tom - It’s a spoonerism, not an alliteration.

      And what, exactly, makes you think it’s offensive?

    • Michael says:

      03:27pm | 23/06/11

      Tom, love, one word…context smile

      i think i can see what you believe meant and i agree it’s not funny, it’s childish.

      Sometimes when words aren’t taken at face value or the context within which a statement has been made isn’t taken into consideration, one can be led to assume something which is incorrect ; this is what you have done Tom.

      You have reflected on your own thoughts, not on what acotrel’s or my actual stated view was…literally.

      No need to apologise Tom, i have not been offended smile

    • Browns Bottom says:

      03:41pm | 23/06/11

      QUOTE,Juliar Gillard There will but nothing but contempt for the Australian people under the Carbon Tax I lead

    • Tom says:

      04:55pm | 23/06/11

      Thanks Michael,  Happy to be corrected (although your explanation sounds suspiciously like “I never inhaled”.)
      Thanks Erick (should I say Maam?). Happy to be corrected.

    • Rachael says:

      01:13pm | 24/06/11

      There is only one thing ordinary Aussies should know.  We have to act on climate change and the longer it takes the more expensive it will be.  Every Australian should support a price on carbon over a “direct action” policy because it is cheaper, more effective and it raises revenue to distribute to low and middle income earners and businesses.  Direct action policies will cost the tax payer more, won’t be as effective and won’t provide revenue for ordinary Aussies.  Add in that a price on carbon will make cleaner technologies cheaper, and more Ordinary Aussies will be able to afford solar systems so you never have to pay an electricity bill again.  Many wealthier Aussies already know how good this is.  Tony Abbott is excellent at spin and scare campaigns. Ordinary Aussies don’t have to believe him.

    • Tom says:

      12:30pm | 25/06/11

      @Rachael,

      “There is only one thing ordinary Aussies should know.  We have to act on climate change and the longer it takes the more expensive it will be.”
      Well boogidy, boogidy, boogidy.

      Sort of dumbing us all down, aren’t you girl? In future, would you mind not talking down to us?

    • Against the Man says:

      06:38am | 23/06/11

      Oh come on do you think Gilltard actually cares about the climate! She cares about holding on to power, that paycheck and that pension that kicks in tomorrow. She comes across as cold and untrustworthy in the internal labor polls released today but that is how she is in real life. In Gilltard’s world there is only her, and everyone -  Tim included just seem to be getting in her way if they aren’t on her side, supporting her incompetence!

    • acotrel says:

      08:21am | 23/06/11

      @ATM NIce comments about Julia Gillard.  If you were impartial and rational, how much different would your comments be about Tony Abbott?

    • Rose says:

      08:52am | 23/06/11

      Hear Ye Hear Ye
      ATM The village idiot has spoken.

    • Nafe says:

      09:23am | 23/06/11

      Didn’t the Howard Government with pressure from Mark Latham reduce Parlimentary Pensions to the same as the rest of the Country?

      I’m not disputing your point her only care is holding onto power but i think the pension issue is dead and burried, And is also the reason we have the crop of politicians we have now, there is no incentive for someone with the required skills to leave the private workforce to make the move into public life.

    • Rick says:

      09:29am | 23/06/11

      she cares about keeping the looney liberal losers out in the political bad lands

    • No says:

      09:44am | 23/06/11

      “Didn’t the Howard Government with pressure from Mark Latham reduce Parlimentary Pensions to the same as the rest of the Country?”

      No.

    • John says:

      10:48am | 23/06/11

      You’re correct. It’s a political issue, not a science issue. Since Climategate, the so-called science has proven to be corrupt.

    • Against the Man says:

      11:22am | 23/06/11

      Oh acotrel and Rose, I see the truth really hurts you guys. Wow calling me an idiot is the best you got? Here is a tip on how to impress others and make me look bad - Actually tell us how and why she cares, tell us the examples and explain the results of Labor’s OWN internal polling results. If you can’t it means I’m right, you agree with me and you are the bunch of minority Labor losers clutching at straws.

      Wonder if acotrel can walk and breath at the same time, every second of life must be a challenge. We applaud your courage. Rosie - life in the unions must be fun with all those free cake and ciggies, hahaha!

    • Christian Real says:

      08:27am | 25/06/11

      Against the Man
      Do you think that Tony Abbott actually cares about the Australian voters that he is attempting to coerce into voting for him?
      If you believe that Against the Man then you most probably believe that fairies live at the bottom of your garden.
      Tony Abbott does not care about the Australian people,the Voters, because Tony abbott only cares about himself, and his ambitions to maybe become Prime Minister one day.
      Tony “don’t believe everything I say” Abbott come across as a serial liar,and seeing that most of the latest statements that he has made, has not been carefully, prepared scripted remarks, then they certainly can’t be the ‘Gospel Truth’ either.

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:45am | 23/06/11

      Louise do you really believe this Labor government will be able to deliver to you a Carbon Tax that will not affect your members.

      That it will not cause even the slightest bubble of extra cost to your members. If I were you I would start drafting my ineffectual letters of indignation to the PM now to save you time in the future.

      There can only be one result in this vain attempt to save a miniscule 0.073% of Global emissions and that is extra cost to tax payers no matter how well compensated.

      That extra cost will filter down to them as either direct or indirect costs brought about by the increased cost of manufacture, loss of jobs or wasted funds that cannot be used to benefit your members in the future.

    • Adam Diver says:

      03:06pm | 23/06/11

      Did she connect the floods to climate change?

      Did she suggest low paid workers cannot afford the extra cost and should be compensated?

      Did she say that her workers believed in climate change? (see above for hypocrisy)

      Did she suggest renewables, despite the failed schemes, and the fact that a carbon tax or ets is the cheapest way to reduce carbon?

      Is she really the leader of a union? Honestly, how well does stupidity get rewarded these days?

    • Aitch B says:

      06:59am | 23/06/11

      I wouldn’t fret too much, Louise.

      Apparently your members’ households are already 23% better off than they were five years ago so they have absolutely nothing to complain about anyway.

      And apparently there’s a chance that the tax free threshold will be raised, filling your members’ pockets.

      Add to that, your members will more than likely be overcompensated on a grand scale, so they’ll be able to buy lots of that lovely meat once again.

      And if they have a couple of dependent kiddies running around they’ll be swimming in it when the suggested family tax benefit increases kick in to compensate even further.

      And you’ll love this bit…. all that cash is coming from ‘rich’ people. How good is that??

      There won’t be any excuses for not investing in new ‘green’ technology with all that money rolling in, will there?

      Your members should trust in Gillard, Swan, Brown, Garnaud, the Independents et al. They’ll look after them - no worries!!

    • jb says:

      09:45am | 23/06/11

      freaking gold!

    • Steve M says:

      10:12am | 23/06/11

      fantastic. Great summary which clearly shows no understanding or care about the situation of low income earners. What an excellent example of humanity. Your parents must be so proud.

    • LeonT says:

      10:59am | 23/06/11

      “And apparently there’s a chance that the tax free threshold will be raised, filling your members’ pockets.”

      And providing exactly the same benefit - if not more - to those exploited rich people.

      Take a look at what the government provides to families earning over $150k a year and you see that they’re getting a pretty good deal for their tax dollars as they benefit so much more from civilised society than poor folk.

    • Aitch B says:

      11:23am | 23/06/11

      @Steve M

      Obviously your sarcasm detector is busted!

    • fml says:

      02:24pm | 23/06/11

      When the low income earners complain about having no money, the liberals say its your own fault, you should work harder, now when its time to introduce a tax the liberals are standing up for the working class!!

      Suits you sir.

    • Sherlock says:

      07:08am | 23/06/11

      Anyone who thinks the government can impose an 11 billion dollar a year impost on business that’s not going to cost them anything personally is gullible beyond belief.

      11 Billion on the Carbon tax and at least the same again in the mining tax and unbelievably there are people who actually think that this $22 billion plus in new taxes isn’t going to affect them because it’s only a tax on business.

      Did I say gullible? I think that’s putting it mildly.

      Then you get persephone coming here and telling us we will all be fully compensated. Yeh right. Well I already know that as a middle income earner I won’t be. In fact this tax will do absolutely nothing to stop any possible effects of climate change but it will take even more money out of my pocket and give it to somebody else.

      Ah income redistribution the ultimate leftist wet dream,

      Sooner or later the climate change alarmists are going to cotton on. The government now has an answer to all their wailing and will effectively silence the climate change lobby. Every time they whine in the future the government can point top it’s carbon tax and say “we’re doing something” never mind if what they are doing is completely and utterly useless.

      I suppose there is some good in every bad situation

    • rob says:

      10:11am | 23/06/11

      Spot on Sherlock. I think T C Chong and Actrolly and silly Rose should all dance of to Fairyland.

    • Gavin Hodge says:

      10:57am | 23/06/11

      You are naieve if you think that most businesses aren’t in the process of working out ways to cut their emissions and avoid the tax so that they can offer competitive prices and suck dry their competitiors who continue to pollute and have to charge more. People will vote with their wallets.

      Companies will no longer be able to pollute for free. I can’t see how that’s a bad thing.

    • Coop says:

      11:38am | 23/06/11

      Gavin ... youre naive if you think that those businesses aren’t looking at moving their operations offshore

    • Sherlock says:

      11:46am | 23/06/11

      Many companies are cutting their emissions already. Those companies that haven’t done so due to cost will simply move production offshore.

      Australia has a dying manufacturing industry so what does this government do? Make it even more expensive to produce in Australia compared to elsewhere. What an absolutely brilliant idea.

      You could almost justify the pain if the result was achieving anything to mitigate any effects of climate change. The problem is that this tax won;t do anything like that.

      It’s a lot of pain to achieve absolutely nothing. It won’t cool the globe or slow the warming of the globe by even a thousandth of a degree.

      All it will active is appeasing the greens who really run the show at present and achieve yet another form of income redistribution and help offset this governments outlandish spending.

      I’m sure that the Labor party has never met a tax it didn’t like

    • Steve Smith says:

      01:39pm | 24/06/11

      Rob
      Fairyland is already overcrowded by redneck morons like you and other liberal sympathisers, and there’s simply no room left for T C Chong, Acotrel and Rose

    • Tim says:

      07:36am | 23/06/11

      Ordinary Aussies have to work longer hours and aren’t paid by lobby groups to populate forums like this with misinformation.

      We have three options on the table, 1) turn our back on science, deny the existence of climate change, surrender civilization and return to cave man status, 2) go the Abbott option of paying lots and lots of our tax money to carbon emitters to do nothing, 3) force emitters to pay a pollution tax and compensate consumers for the resulting rise in prices.

      The first option sounds great until you realize that you’d have to brush your teeth with a stick, the second option would do absolutely nothing about carbon emissions and leave most taxpayers worse off, the final option would actually encourage change and allow smart consumers that reduce consumption to actually end up with more money in their pockets.

    • Michael says:

      08:58am | 23/06/11

      Tim exactly why would the tax encourage change?

      Will business find it more efficient to oncharge the tax to consumers or to pay the tax and just change of their own accord?

      Without creating new legislation for the change to green energy/industry what will be the driving factor for industry to change itself rather than pass on the costs?

      What evidence have you to suggest that industry will actually change because of this tax?

      Do low income families really live more greenly than middle and higher income families, what is the price difference right now between green transport ie hybrid cars and non hybrid cars now and what will that difference be under the carbon tax, can low income families afford green technology now in todays dollars and can you demonstrate how that will be more affordable for low income families after compensation from the tax.

      Will low income families be leading the green revolution with their compensatory dollars, will this charge be backed by policy in relation to the types of technology recipients of the compensation are able to purchase or will it be as it is now…those who wish to be environmentally conscious are so and those who wish not to be are so.

    • Nafe says:

      09:27am | 23/06/11

      SO i see your a member of one of those lobby groups you mentioned

    • fml says:

      10:11am | 23/06/11

      Michael,

      The only way its going to help is as the author said,

      “Better, sustainable outcomes for low income earners - and the environment - can be achieved if some of the remaining 45 per cent of revenue is invested in renewable energy and smart solutions, in particular in mechanisms to make renewable energy products and services affordable for low-income workers.”

      The revenue raised needs to be used in a way to encourage businesses to make use of renewable resources. If they invest in solar panels, not only will their carbon tax decrease but also their electricity bill. An alternative to the carbon tax is, the government could make a law forcing businesses to implement a policy to source green energy and that by 5 years make use of 25% renewable resources of their total electricity use. Hypothetically, if they are using cheaper energy their overheads will decrease and prices should drop. Once the first businesses realise this and implement such a policy, they will gain market share by offering cheaper products, and hopefully the rest will follow suit.

      Problem is though i highly doubt businesses will on their own accord introduce such measures. This tax is incentive for them to do so. Only when it hurts their bottom line will they make a move, and unfortunately i dont think many business owners have the foresight to see that this is the what the government is trying to achieve with the carbon tax. Its basically a form of punishment that the government can gain revenue, much like what they are doing to smokers. I wouldnt be surprised if they started a carbon tax on each puff you have of a cig.

    • Michael says:

      10:48am | 23/06/11

      Thanks for your reply fml, i was hoping Tim would offer some answers to my questions to supplement his so far unsubstantiated assertions that

      “We have three options on the table, 1) turn our back on science, deny the existence of climate change, surrender civilization and return to cave man status, 2) go the Abbott option of paying lots and lots of our tax money to carbon emitters to do nothing, 3) force emitters to pay a pollution tax and compensate consumers for the resulting rise in prices”

      “The first option sounds great until you realize that you’d have to brush your teeth with a stick, the second option would do absolutely nothing about carbon emissions and leave most taxpayers worse off, the final option would actually encourage change and allow smart consumers that reduce consumption to actually end up with more money in their pockets”

      I have not been shown anything to ease my concerns that the carbon tax will tax businesses, compensate the poor, slug middle Australia and not do anything about carbon pollution.

      Likewise direct action will be massively expensive, compensation will be given to business to drive change, and carbon pollution will not be improved.

      My point is many people on either side are prepared to make assertions without details and then are prepared to defend that position by dismissing alternate views as lacking credibility because the details of the tax haven’t been released yet.

    • fml says:

      11:53am | 23/06/11

      Michael,

      Thats a fair point, but when you say “not do anything about carbon pollution”, reducing reliance on fossil fuels will reduce carbon emissions, how much? i dont know, i think the basis of everyones argument is the difference in how much carbon emissions will be dropped, will it be negligible? or will it eventually save the earth?

      I do think carbon emissions will be reduced but as i said before whether its a negligible amount or something earth shattering is yet to be seen. I am a believer though in everybody doing their bit. We can all turn off appliances at the power socket, use better light bulbs, rug up instead of turning on the heater, while these are small changes and some can argue quite easily that one person doesnt make a difference, if we all implemented these changes, we will see more of a change.

      I think really the onus is on the government, if the tax is introduced they need to outline a formal plan of where the money will go. That is, official investment into renewable energy, then,  for the first few years compensate the consumer which is where the businesses are going to initially pass on the cost, and also offer incentives in the form of carbon tax concessions to businesses and/or people who invest capital into renewable sources of energy. This of course needs to be tightly regulated to reduce waste, but regulation of course reduces efficiency and ends up costing more too.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:23pm | 23/06/11

      4) Compensation for consumers is paid to emitters who are charging higher prices.
      What are the alternatives Tim? What can take the place of fossil fuels? What are we going to do when, we can’t make those inefficient renewable generators because of fossil fuel depletion?

    • WayneT says:

      12:53pm | 23/06/11

      Power generators will not move to renewables because they know (as anybody who has researched the facts) that alternatives like wind and solar are currently expensive, inefficient, do not provide base load capacities when required and require the equivalent in coal powered power stations to act as a backup stand-by supply for when the wind and sun don’t play the game.  Wind turbines are so expensive and inefficient that Holland recently became the first country in Europe to abandon its EU renewable energy target, announcing that it is to slash its annual subsidy by billions of euros.  The most glaring dishonesty peddled by the wind industry — and echoed by gullible politicians — is vastly to exaggerate the output of turbines by deliberately talking about them only in terms of their ‘capacity’, as if this was what they actually produce. Rather, it is the total amount of power they have the capability of producing.  The point about wind, of course, is that it is constantly varying in speed, so that the output of turbines averages out at barely a quarter of their capacity.  Wind turbines are so expensive that they would not be built in the first place except for the large government subsidies provided, and the same will have to happen here.  Guess who will pay for that? No I’m afraid it will be simpler and more economical for our power generators to just pass on the tax to the end users – us.

    • Michael says:

      01:59pm | 23/06/11

      Fml, valid points you have raised, if people can change their usage after the tax to save money and the environment all is good, but what is stopping those people right now? choice is my suggestion, people who choose to be conservative with power, water and pollutants now will no doubt be doing their part still post tax.

      How does the tax directly change the behaviour of people who remain wasteful if they are being compensated with no requirement to change behaviour?

    • fml says:

      02:35pm | 23/06/11

      Michael,

      Thats the essence of the carbon tax, the less carbon you use, the less tax you pay.

      An individual tax return is a microcosm of the carbon tax, everyone has to pay tax, the more effort you put into claiming tax reductions (in this case reducing your electricity consumption/carbon output) the less tax you will have to pay, hopefully, i think the theory is once businesses see their first tax bill they will make moves to reduce their tax payment. Unfortunately i just see businesses taking the easy way out and passing the tax on. Which will most likely mean an increase in essential services, but once the purchase non-essential services and products increase in price and people cannot afford them anymore, the companies that cannot move production overseas will hopefully change their business model.

      “How does the tax directly change the behaviour of people who remain wasteful if they are being compensated with no requirement to change behaviour?”

      As far as i know it will be the businesses that are taxed, hopefully businesses will not be given any concessions, It will us who will bear the initial brunt of the tax, which is the businesses passing the tax onto us and hopefully it is we who are afforded concessions, although saying that, i can see it would be a benefit if the government gave businesses concessions when purchasing solar panels or other energy saving products.. the businesses will have to reduce overhead by reducing the amount of carbon usage.

    • Harquebus says:

      05:50pm | 23/06/11

      A quota system would be better. Everyone gets an equal share. Got some left over, sell it. A carrot is better than a stick which, we all try to avoid. Tax.

    • iansand says:

      06:32pm | 23/06/11

      And Harquebus describes an emissions trading scheme.  I bet that will surprise him.

    • John the Zombie says:

      11:18pm | 23/06/11

      Tim you seem to forget one of the major parts of the govt carbon tax. If by implementing the carbon tax it puts the viability of power stations at risk the govt will give them loans. So you tell me how this is going to change there habits. Interesting enough as the bills for power go up, it still has not changed how ppl use power. How many families have more then one tv, laptop, computer and other high power using devices.

      Also look at how many ppl are asking for a hand out. You have the steal industry, mining, manufacturing, motor vehicle, agriculture (which is excempt), retail, power companies and other business all calling for it. What will be left for the low income earners?

      If manufacturing does not get enough to cover the cost increase due to the Carbon Tax then they will either move overseas or ask the govt for a hand out. This will cover motor, steal, gas, gold and all industries.

      One of the greatest lies been pushed by the govt is the use of China as a role model. Both Gillard and Brown have said that they are closing thier coal power stations. what they fail to mention is that they are building double that number of coal power stations in the future and now since there is a move away from Nuclear they may build more.

    • nihonin says:

      07:37am | 23/06/11

      Louise you post ‘We support action on climate change but we are determined to make sure low paid workers are heard - and that the Labor-led government is held to account if they are not’.  Well after the Carbon Tax has passed and is implemented and the compensation may be/is found to be too little.  I’m sure your members will feel all warm fuzzy knowing you are holding Government to account.

      I know there will be people here, who will post ‘how can you say that as we don’t know what the price and compensation will be’, that’s my point, we know nothing, nothing at all about the make up of this Tax.

    • Tiny Dancer says:

      07:37am | 23/06/11

      Louise, if you think this government will protect low paid workers you are kidding yourself.  You ask for a watchdog.  How many stuff ups do you need to se from this government before you get it - this government can’t do anything useful.  You will end up supporting them regardless of what they do.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:41am | 23/06/11

      What a joke, “we will do what is best for our members” since when? You will do what you are told to do and no amount of blustering and chest thumping will change that. If the powers to be say jump you will jump even though it means you and your members will end up at the bottom of a large cliff. This Government is not interested in the common person just appeasing Queen Bob so they can say in power, even blind Freedy can see that and its a appalling scenario when the wishes of the people are thrown aside for the wishes of a few power hungry prima donnas. The only good thing that will come of this is that Labor , the Greens and the Independants are signing their own death warrants as far as being re-elected again which is a good thing.

    • neither Wall nor Cot says:

      07:31pm | 23/06/11

      I am a member of United Voice thatmosis, please tell me the examples of my National Union jumping to the tune of this Government.

      They don’t write about that in the stuff I read from them, so I am interested in what you know.  I know that they are campaigning for better conditions for cleaners and child care workers, and I know that they didn’t follow the herd on the Parental Leave claim - I’ve always been quite proud that the union doesn’t just follow what the Government says.  I don’t move in any circles of important people but I try to read what I can.  Please fell me in.

    • Peggy Hand says:

      07:43am | 23/06/11

      Also add to the number of Australians to be heard the self funded retirees, whose income rarely increases as well as the Pensioners. Any tax offset will be well and truly used up by Electricity price increases and cost of everything, manufactured, transported, in fact anythingthat uses electicity etc.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      07:47am | 23/06/11

      While Bob Brown is running this government, no one elses opinions will be considered, let alone looked at. Once again the worker gets kicked in the guts. Tim Flannery has large investments in hot rock generation so he stands to make a tidy sum from this tax when it is distributed to experimental failures such as hot rock. Tim is a really good mate of Malcolm Turnbull. Malcolm Turnbull does not do anything unless there is a dollar in it for himself. The whole thing stinks of corruption and inner circle boys club nepotism.
      But it is OK, I never wnted to give my kids a better crack at life than I had, and this tax will help ensure this is the case.

    • 47 says:

      06:54pm | 23/06/11

      There’s only one way to fix this then i guess….

    • Tedd says:

      07:59am | 23/06/11

      Louise,
      The the group you represent are Not being asked “to *invest* in new technologies like solar panels, fuel efficient cars and new, more efficient appliances”.

      The govt is trying to set up economic parameters for industries to do that - to shift to greater employment and other opportunities in those new fields while such a shift can be steady, and not after unnecessary investment in old technology that comes to a sudden demise with associated old-industry unemployment.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:25pm | 23/06/11

      So what’s the new-industry Tedd? That mythical renewable energy stuff?

    • ausspud says:

      01:58pm | 23/06/11

      harq
      havent you heard,the gov next stimulus program for every household is a bike connected to a generator.Its going to be called the “electro bike revolution”.

    • Tom says:

      02:55pm | 23/06/11

      Tedd, “The govt is trying to set up economic parameters ... ” You would do Humphrey Appleby proud, mate. Its a tax. Its a stinking, dirty snouts-in-the-trough Labor tax ... and did I forget to mention, .... ITS A TAX.

    • Craig says:

      08:00am | 23/06/11

      No. Aussies need an actual binding plebiscite (binding for BOTH parties) to have their voices heard.

      Anything less is a waste of money, and time.

    • Demion says:

      09:03am | 23/06/11

      No such thing as a binding plebiscite mate.

      Aussies need to shut up and take their medicine like they did when Howard spent 120 million telling us what a great thing a GST that added 10 percent to the cost of everything was.

      Aussies are barely smart enough to know their ass from their elbow.

    • fml says:

      09:29am | 23/06/11

      You mean a referendum? or an election? There should be one coming up in a few years.

    • Pete says:

      09:30am | 23/06/11

      So you actually mean a referendum not a plebiscite. good luck with that one

    • jb says:

      09:56am | 23/06/11

      But Demion at least with the GST we all had to suck it up. As much as I don’t like it and you don’t like it we all pay equal.
      With what Gillard is doing many will actually make a profit on not complying thats the real injustice.
      If every Australian had to do their bit there would not be half the screaming thats going on.
      And besides why not just spend the intended compensation on putting solar panels where ever we can and gradually lower our dependence on dirty energy?
      That would kind of be a bit too easy and wouldn’t give Gillard and Swan any extra for the kit now would it?
      Taxes are not an answer to everything, investment in alternative energy is but not this way champ.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:15am | 23/06/11

      @Demion, we had the option to reject Howard and his GST, but it was voted in.

      We were given no such option with the Gillard government.

    • Demion says:

      10:44am | 23/06/11

      The Democrats - remember the “keep the bastards honest” mob went back on their election promise and backed Howard’s GST.
      Howard did not get a mandate for introducing the GST despite spending 120 million dollars of taxpayers money trying to convince us it was good for us.
      As I said, Aussies are barely smart enough to know their ass from their elbow.

    • Pat Marsh says:

      12:17pm | 23/06/11

      Arses and elbows, good stuff Demion, most sensible comment of the lot.

      This blog reeks of being populated by escapees from talkback radio.

      Fair dinkum, from binding plebiscites, through rampant prejudice, to those who simply don’t listen to the argument.

      I accept freedom of speech is a good thing but, jeez, you are giving the concept a fair old pummelling?

    • Harquebus says:

      12:27pm | 23/06/11

      Another election? The last one was a waste of time and money.

    • Matty says:

      01:44pm | 23/06/11

      @Demion & @jb,
      The GST did not automatically raise the price of everything by 10%.  The GST was created to consolidate a number of inefficient state and federal taxes (wholesale sales for example) into 1 much simpler consumption tax.  As a result, the cost of some goods and services went up, some came down and other stayed the same.  CPI for the Sep Qtr 2000 showed a CPI increase of 3%, not 10% as doomsday sayers were predicting.
      The difference between the Carbon Tax and GST is that the carbon tax WILL affect the prices of EVERYTHING and it will increase year on year.  You are deluding yourself if you think this will not happen.  Read reports of what has already happened in NZ and the UK!  Coupled with the states (federally imposed) renewable energy targets, the cost of electricity has already skyrocketed and will continue to do so under any proposed carbon tax.  Taxing the bejesus out of us when viable, alternate, effeicient energy sources are not available or cost effective (nuclear anyone?) will not fix the climate nor make us market leaders in rebewable energy.  Wind and solar are just too expensive and will always be so.  The money needs to be invested in research and development of renewable energy, but until alternates to our coal powered stations are available it seems stupid to instatly make them more expensive!  A timeframe to allow for change should be set so at least a few gas stations can be built while other viable alternatives are explored.  Taking from the rich and giving the poor upfront payments to ‘compensate’ for price increases is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.  Like a person who is struggling to make ends meet now will still have their ‘compensation’ money handy when the first electricity bill under a carbon tax is received.

    • jack says:

      08:08am | 23/06/11

      why would you write a story like this without waiting to hear the end result, you are jumping the gun like most people, as an ordinary aussie I am prepared to sit and wait for the final policy outcome, I will then make a judgement on the package which I believe will include compensation for the people you are talking about.
      I am confident none of our politicians want any families or pensioners,
      to suffer under a carbon tax

    • Michael says:

      08:43am | 23/06/11

      Jack are you happy to have the government spend millions promoting the tax before the details are released?

      Jack are you happy to be told your concerns are rubbish or denials of truth, whilst being denied the details?

      That’s why the story…

    • Harquebus says:

      12:29pm | 23/06/11

      I know for a dead certain fact that there is no such thing as renewable energy. Changing over to it is going to be the fun part. I know this is serious but, I just can not stop laughing.

    • Burko says:

      12:46pm | 23/06/11

      Sorry Jack, you dont get to make a judgment. You, like the rest of rest will have to” Just say Yes”

    • fml says:

      02:41pm | 23/06/11

      Harquuebus,

      “I know for a dead certain fact that there is no such thing as renewable energy.”

      Really? You should really back those kind of statements up.

    • iansand says:

      03:13pm | 23/06/11

      Harquebus is perfectly correct.  There is no such thing as renewable energy.  Fortunately we have a great big fusion reactor not too far away that is expected to keep operating for a few billion years, so there is no need for renewable energy.

    • fml says:

      03:46pm | 23/06/11

      iansand,

      I know harquebus and yourself are referring to something akin to perpetual energy, but renewable energy does exist because its definition is made in the context of energy sources which are naturally replenished. Arguing that these are not renewable is just semantics.

    • iansand says:

      04:17pm | 23/06/11

      fml - That was my point.  Harquebus has mentioned this lack of renewable energy on several occasions, as though the statement puts an end to any discussion of alternate sources of energy.  Which is dumb.

    • fml says:

      05:21pm | 23/06/11

      My apologies!

      I thought you were agreeing with him.

    • Harquebus says:

      05:56pm | 23/06/11

      @iansand. 149,597,870.7 kilometers ain’t that far eh. The piddling little amount that falls on this planet is spread out, diffuse. All we have to do is what hydro does, collect it. That’s the hard part. EROEI. The energy that goes into collecting it ain’t worth the effort.

    • iansand says:

      06:24pm | 23/06/11

      Harquebus - You may think it is piddling.  It may be spread out, but (apart from a relatively minuscule amount of nuclear and geothermal energy) it is responsible for all of the energy that keeps the Earth running.  If you honestly think the Sun’s energy contribution is piddling you are incompetent to comment on anything to do with energy policy.

    • Harquebus says:

      04:27pm | 24/06/11

      @iansand. You are wrong. I would like a “discussion of alternate sources of energy”. In fact, what I want to hear is not that we should be doing something but, what can we do?

    • Gregg says:

      08:09am | 23/06/11

      Do you have any technical training/expertise Louise or are just accepting the party and paid experts line like Gillard and Combet are in accepting what Garnaut feeds them for a fee, knowing full well the type of garbage Garnaut will come up with.

      Have you ever thought just a little about what is happening in the US, Europe and yes even the current heralded economic powerhouse of China, for if you do, you will see much evidence of high unemployment and economic decline.
      Line up a heap of dominoes spaced so one will be affected by another and give the first a push - and of course tourism will decline as economies worsen and the tourism industry is already doingh it tough in Australia, not because of global warming or a carbon tax we do not have yet.

      Recent power charges increases is nothing to do with infrastructure that has not been started on yet and if you really want to investigate why the charges are up, it is because without new coal fired power stations having been built for a couple of decades, there is more and more reliance on small gas fired turbine units, gas being more expensive and then you have the interconnection of the eastern states grids such that there is a market bidding process involved in power supply management and as demand goes up, so do prices being factored in.
      And then you have the government subsidies for solar power systems, and spo where do you think the money will come from for those - that’s right, power charges going up!

      And as for renewable energy supply, there is yet none that effctively supplies base load power of any great significance on a 24/7 basis, so the whole power reliability scene is only going to get worse as will the carbon taxing and any compensation your members might see.

      You and your type are so so gullible Louise.

    • Richard says:

      11:46am | 23/06/11

      Exactly right Gregg. The only solution to desperate and economically destructive problem of sky-rocketing electricity prices is to abolish solar feed-in tariffs and build more coal-fired power stations (just like China is doing incidentally).

      For the love of humanity, how come so many people can not see the simple truth in this. If you don’t think it matters whether or not power prices increase exponentially, look at what happened in the 70’s when they last did. That’s right: stagflation.

      This is the crux of the matter~ either new coal-fired power stations or economically crippling stagflation. Stagflation is a big deal, climate change is not a big deal. Yes there’s a bit of climate change, but the apocalyptic predictions have not come true, not even come close to coming true, and so there’s no reason to think there is much of a danger.

      But stagflation will cause much much more damage to Australians than climate change ever will. So we must make a wise choice and reject the carbon tax, and build more power stations to supply with cheap electricity to the masses.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:34pm | 23/06/11

      Politicians represent of the people. What does that tell ya?

    • Sarah says:

      08:31am | 23/06/11

      Well I’m amazed (and choking on my porridge as a result). Who would have thunk it? A unionist actually sprouting FOR their workers and not the ALP party line??? - Louise - you make a REFRESHING change to the usual spawn dribbled out by Ged Kearney on The Punch. Thank-you for a good article. Your comment regarding the ‘real’ battlers haven’t been heard is true. Right now we have plenty of middle-class ‘battlers’ within the 150k bracket (I am one of them) screaming our anger and defiance over this joke of a government and its plans to destroy our once-great nation - but all we hear about the REALLY struggling people who are on total minimum wage - is that they will be ‘so much better off’ under a Carbon Tax. No-one will be better off under a Carbon Tax. No matter how much Compensation is thrown around - every man, woman and child in Australia will be far worse off. Thankyou Louise.

    • Rick says:

      09:24am | 23/06/11

      Middle class battler on 150K…........Oh please, what the hell are you batteling? tossing up where to go on you next OS holiday?the colour of the new car? What Uni to send the kids to?

    • Sarah says:

      10:11am | 23/06/11

      @ Rick. Please see the ‘’ around the word battler. I don’t consider myself to be poor, or a real battler. I earn excellent money and I don’t have children to suck my salary dry. What I am however is referencing to the constant stream of media articles of late where families on 150k are classed ‘middle class battlers’. That does not mean that I consider myself one of them - hardly considering I’m a single female without children. Don’t be too bitter however - just because I chose to work my absolute ass off to get to where I am and to earn the money that I have - does not mean that I should wind up paying even more tax than the already ridiculous amount taken from me, just to subsidise those who have not put in the hard yards that I have - in order to make a better income for themselves.

    • Knemon says:

      10:11am | 23/06/11

      @ Rick - Pathetic isn’t it?  Middle class battlers earning 150K, what a joke. Australia is rapidly turning into a greedy and selfish nation led by the likes of Sarah.

      @ Sarah - Why don’t you explain how ‘every’ man, woman and child in Australia will be ‘far’ worse off, you’re obviously privy to the finer details of the carbon tax plan, or are you just spouting the usual greedy conservative diatribe?

      Live within your means Sarah, if you can’t live on 150K, I might suggest you seek the services of a financial advisor.

    • fml says:

      02:45pm | 23/06/11

      I wondered when the i work my arse off for it, and they should work harder would come out.

      When the low income earners are taxed, the liberal free market response is they should work harder, smarter, but once you start being taxed, why the hell should i have to pay?, they should work harder! i work hard enough already! Somebody think of the low income earners!

      suits you sir.

    • Michael says:

      04:39pm | 23/06/11

      Fml, i may be able to help with a different view point.

      My wife worked harder than me in school and her academic record shows this, she also worked harder than me at Uni’ and her academic record shows this too.

      We are now coming close to the mid career point and my wife earns nearly double my gross salary, her role in her workplace reflects the hard yards put in during our younger years both at school and in the workforce.

      The resulting outcomes professionally and financially were always pretty clear to us, parents, teachers and mentors advised us of this cause and effect situation. still i made the choices i was interested in at the time and now is the time my life reflects earlier choices i have made in my life.

      A persons situation may well reflect the choices they have made, is it really acceptable to burden people who made better choices with the financial responsibilty or part thereof for people that are now dissatisfied with their outcomes?

    • iansand says:

      08:37am | 23/06/11

      If Gillard introduces a carbon tax, and if that tax has minimal impact on voters, she will survive the next election and Abbott will become the nobody he was born to be.

      If the carbon tax is introduced but Gillard loses Abbott will not repeal the tax.  He may play around the edges, but that is all.  In 2 years time most developed economies will have a price on carbon or will be moving towards imposing one.  To repeal such a price will make Abbott look like a complete troglodyte.

      And could the nutters PLEASE note the use of “if” and spend a little bit of time actually considering what it means?

    • Aitch B says:

      09:10am | 23/06/11

      @iansand

      “In 2 years time most developed economies will have a price on carbon or will be movng towards imposing one.”

      Very Persephone-like statement there.

      Can I borrow your crystal ball? I need the lotto numbers for May 15, 2013.

    • Joel B1 says:

      09:15am | 23/06/11

      In your dreams iansand.

      The person in charge of the the EUs 130Bn euro budget reckons “AGW seems less and less likely, and that they (the EU) have too high emission targets”.

      Still, dream on. Australia lags the world by 10 years, we’ll be getting around to a CO2 tax when the rest of the world realises it’s getting bloody colder.

      Talk about redhead nutters!

    • Tim says:

      09:47am | 23/06/11

      Iansand,
      At the moment nothing will save this government. Even if the tax has minimal impact on voters Gillard is still gone.
      However, I agree that there is no chance of Abbott repealing the tax after the next election but not because other countries have put a tax on Carbon but because it will be too expensive and will most likely cost votes.
      How is he going to explain removing the compensation (bribes) handed out by the current government?
      He’ll put up a limp bill which will get rejected by the Greens in the Senate and then he can claim that he tried to remove the tax but was thwarted.

    • Knemon says:

      10:21am | 23/06/11

      @ iansand - “Abbott will become the nobody he was born to be” - I like it, very apt, especially the NObody.

      The only people that believe ‘NObody Tone’ will repeal this act are his loony brainwashed followers.

    • iansand says:

      11:35am | 23/06/11

      Joel B1 - Link please (not a blog).  The only thing that turns up on a google search of your “quote” is your comment.  Not very convincing, I’m afraid.

    • nossy says:

      08:46am | 23/06/11

      What a shocker of a week Tones Abbott has had Louise and its only Thursday ! First off the shocker of a welcome to NZ PM Keys in Parliament where he politicised his “welcome” - cringeworthy in the extreme. then after Tones “Entree” came the Main Course - his Plebicite stunt where he thought he would catch Labor out opposing it . Well in cricket parlance Tones was clean bowled middle stump not by Labor but by that departing young bowler Steve Fielding ! Stunned and with egg dripping from his face he slunk back to the pavilion happy though that he was able to keep intact his 100% losing record ! What goes on between those big ears viewers - ears I might add any Donkey would be proud to wear !  hahahahahh Well clearly not much. I heard on an interview on ABC24 the question asked, in response to a statement made that Abbott was the most radical Right Wing leader ever,  would it be better for the Libs to get someone up fronnt more acceptable to the Australian voters ? Wise question. But from labors point of view he is THE GREATEST ELECTORAL ASSET who if still leading the Libs come the election in 2013 will almost single handedly be the reason Labor will record a resounding victory ! Oh you great big beauty Tones !

    • NicoleG says:

      08:53am | 23/06/11

      What a load of waffle nossy. Where do you get your stuff from? I’m tipping it’s hydro. I want some!

    • Elphaba says:

      09:52am | 23/06/11

      Aahh, NicoleG. wink  the polls speak for themselves… nossy and his ilk can have their delusions, it’s the only thing stopping them from collapsing in a screaming heap at the prospect of losing their jobs…

    • Knemon says:

      10:57am | 23/06/11

      Ear ear nossy, well said. I’m so over seeing Abbott on the news every night getting in the way of some businessman or worker going about their daily chores, they don’t need this clown continually interrupting them.  He should grow up and start acting like a possible future leader of Australia; until he does he will never live in the lodge. As for being right wing, he makes John Howard look like a socialist.

      BTW - Telstra just signed an $11billion dollar deal to move services to NBN - Don’t tell Tony.

    • jb says:

      11:13am | 23/06/11

      Hey Crusty you are freaking kidding me right, you just copy and paste your dribble from post to post, sheesh at least you didn’t put it under one of your other non de plumes by mistake.
      Plagiarizing yourself now thats got to be a new act of desperation even for you Old Crusty.
      Seriously, I really can’t believe that you do this time and time again.
      Are you going for the subliminal advertising rant that you used to use in your old days as an adman?
      Oh poor crusty labor like life is just drifting away from you ol’ chum, you and your die hard fan club of 3 are laying your cards on the table daily as the sweat drips from your brow to the key board as you franticly type up ANYTHING to help save your lass the Mugger….
      The very fact that you would rather see her and Swan sink our beautiful country than have the labor party admit it was a bad experiment and replace her with someone like Smith now before its too late is the most disgusting part about your mindless slobbering rants.
      It’s proven Science Crusty something you pretend to believe in…
      Tally Ho old chap!

    • NicoleG says:

      11:19am | 23/06/11

      Knemon, I have a solution for you. Turn the bluddy thing off. And Abbott is not a ‘possible’ future leader of Australia, he ‘will’ be the leader of Australia, very, very, soon. So switch of or get used to it.

    • nossy says:

      12:16pm | 23/06/11

      @jb - I still cant remember where we met jb ? Anyway time move son and the old “ad game tactics” still come iin handy huh - once a winner always a winner I say ?  hahahahahah

    • Harquebus says:

      12:35pm | 23/06/11

      You don’t need Flash nossy.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:12am | 25/06/11

      Nossy
      Adolf Hitler was the most radical right wing Leader in Nazi Germany, does that mean that Tony Abbott has something in common with him.?

    • Christian Real says:

      10:26am | 25/06/11

      Nossy
      This is taken from “The Sydney Morning Herald”
      “Time’s up for tear-down Tony.”, wriiten by Peter hartcher, on June 25,2011.
      “Gillard may be the head of a minority government,but she has so far shown an iron grip on the parliament majority.”
      Of the 151 bills that the Gillard government has supported, 151 have passed the House of representatives,Abbott has successfully blocked nothing,and successfully proposed nothing.”
      ‘As the government proceeds to get it’s signature initiatives through Parliament, Abbott looks increasingly ineffectual, full of empty bluster,and with nothing else to offer.this week the national broadband network crossed a serious threshold towards becoming reality,the likelihood is that the carbon tax will too,in the months ahead, successive losses in parliament will expose Abbott and demoralise his troops.”
      Second,because victory cannot be scored on opinion polls,but in a federal election,Abbott will truly need to be an alternative prime minister,if he wants the people to vote “yes” he has to represent something more than “no”.

    • RyaN says:

      10:17pm | 26/06/11

      @Christian Real: incorrect, he might have ended up being a fascist which has nothing to do with the right wing, however he was born and grown in the LEFT, rose to power through the LEFT then turned fascist. Nothing about his party, the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” looks right to me.
      He belongs to you lefties just like every other psycopathic leftie scumbag in the history of our planet, Pol pot, Stalin etc.. etc..

    • Holly says:

      08:50am | 23/06/11

      Self funded retirees are always banging on about being poor.  If you are a totally self funded retiree celebrate the fact.  Being of a certain age when I visited Centrelink recently to make enquiries about the pension I was totally gobsmacked about how much I could own and earn before I was ineligible for any pension or a health care card.  This largesse was apparently extended greatly during the Howard Costello years,  along with the non taxable super for those over sixty, thereby leaving our country with a structural deficit rather than the much vaunted surplus.

      Anyway bring on the pension, the Carbon Tax and my compensation I say.

    • I may be poor, but I am somebody, I am God's Child says:

      09:57am | 23/06/11

      If you are being compensated, then you have already paid too much. If lower paid people pay less direct tax, or none, they will pay more indirect tax. They will pay for Goods and Services from someone who may not receive compensation from the government. These companies if not reimbursed by the government will review their prices and you will reimburse them instead. The poor people will lose. But the government will tell them how much better off they are. The government will spend millions, maybe billions to tell more lies about how good this tax is. Good products sell themselves, but rotten meat stays on the shelf until discarded.

    • Denny Crane says:

      01:59pm | 23/06/11

      Holly - a lot of self funded retirees worked very hard and many have done it on not a great deal of money. But instead of wasting it like you did, they saved. Why shouldnt they be entitled to something? You will be sucking off the public teet until the day you die never having given anything back or even part way paid your own way. You dont deserve to be in the same room as a self funded retiree. Typical Labor leech.

    • Chris says:

      08:53am | 23/06/11

      Would somebody please mind explain why, if this is for reducing the effect of climate change (whatever that is), and it is being implemented to deter our society form polluting our environment etc. Why should anybody be compensated for this taxes effect. Are you trying to tell me that saving the planet is the sole responsibility of that wonderful thing called the middle and upper class rich. Don’t the poor (thos under $80,00pa apparently) pollute??

      Lets call it buy a new name - the AWRS (Australian Wealth Redistribution
      Scheme). If we need to save the planet from a CO2 plague, then lets all participate, not just the middle and upper class “rich”, they weren’t the only ones supposedly “changing the climate”.

      Also, let take a little peak at nature herself, don’t you lot realise that that little event that has been occurring in Chile recently that has been keeping our CO2 polluting aircraft on the ground, stopping those evil middle class polluting passengers on the ground as a result, has probably pumped more CO2 into the atmosphere than the upper middle class CO2 producing junkies (in the world) have produced in the last 5 odd years (probably more), and that just one eruption. What about Iceland, Indonesia and all the others.

      Lets have a VERT (Volcanic Eruption Reduction Tax, that should fix that)

      Will this tax on emitters do anything for the climate – NO
      Will the emitters pass it on – YES, therefore it has no tangible effect on them or there profit margins.
      Will everybody be responsible for saving the planet – Apparently not, just the Middle and Upper class “wealthy”.

      Just a couple of thing for you all to ponder, in could go on – over to you

    • Chris says:

      09:33am | 23/06/11

      Sorry about some of my spelling and numbers, i know what i mean smile

    • Muttley says:

      10:20am | 23/06/11

      spot on. We should follow the US example and offer no respite to low income earners. That works out so well for them! Yeah, bugger the poor. They chose to be poor so why should we help them?

    • Chris says:

      10:31am | 23/06/11

      Look at what i said. If we have a climate change problem, its “everybodies” issue, not just those that can “afford” it.

      If we want equity, then we have to fight this so called problem equally.

      Keep the class/wealth discrimination oout of it.

    • Kirk says:

      12:13pm | 23/06/11

      First sentence
      “reducing the effect of climate change (whatever that is)”
      If you don’t understand what the effects of climate change are, why would anyone read any further?
      You are obviously illiterate.

    • Denny Crane says:

      02:05pm | 23/06/11

      Kirk - perhaps you could explain what the effects will be. Nobody else seems to be able to. Jetset Tim Flannery told us that Brisbane dams would never fill again. Is this one of the effects that you are refering to? Or Al Gore telling us about huge sea level rises just before bying one of his beachside properties.

    • I may be poor, but I am somebody, I am God's Child says:

      08:53am | 23/06/11

      King Canute proved that he has no power over the tide. He had a similar lack of power over the weather. God has power over all. He has not abandoned the work of his hands despite messages, strong messages to the contrary coming from our godless and probably, unless they repent, hellbound leaders. Say no to drugs, and say no to Carbon Tax, say no, no, no, no, no. Whom does this tax benefit? It benefits Satan, to know that we no longer trust God, and we will now put our faith in science and technology. Has your computer ever, ever let you down? Who has ever heard of a new car breaking down? Who has ever heard of someone getting a disease they were immunised against?

    • Harquebus says:

      12:40pm | 23/06/11

      And I am criticized for having no respect for the religious.

    • fml says:

      02:52pm | 23/06/11

      Im confused, are you saying satan has a computer?

    • Elphaba says:

      09:00am | 23/06/11

      You should write the union Punch pieces - it’s better than bloody Ged Kearney and her total brown-nosing worship of all decisions Labor.

      But as Erick said above - the best way to take the temperature of the carbon tax amongst Australians would be to hold a proper vote on it so we get an ACTUAL say - not a token one.

      So until then, I don’t need a representative, I need my PM to grow some balls and take the vote to the people.

    • Candice B Real says:

      09:28am | 23/06/11

      So, are you saying she has none?

    • Harquebus says:

      12:37pm | 23/06/11

      Maybe if she represented her constituents and not just her political party.

    • sludger says:

      09:04am | 23/06/11

      This line concerns me:  “Compensation must be the key to any carbon tax and must offset the cost for those low income workers most vulnerable to price changes.”  Why?  My anger is not that I am against doing something for the climate.  Look, whether we are having a huge effect or little there is no harm in reducing our impact is there?  What I am against is a tax with no discernable impact other than to take wealth from the higher income bracket and then distribute it to the lower income in the form of compensation.  Why?  This smacks of pure wealth distribution and at no point has anyone shown how this will make one bit of difference to the climate. Even the governments own minister was surprised at the ads supporting a tax not drafted to a policy not yet finalised.  The issue is not whether we should act on climate change, it is why should the higher earners once again have money ripped off them to be given to the lower income.  Well, that’s what I see and I ain’t happy, Jan.

    • John says:

      09:09am | 23/06/11

      The Carbon Tax rallies? aren’t they funded by the Government to manipulate and swindle the people to support the TAX? or are they legitimate rallies? Maybe organized by the green’s? and their alliance of socialists Lenin lovers.

    • John says:

      10:45am | 23/06/11

      I believe the leftist GetUp mob are funding the rallies, in turn funded by Labor.

    • JohnH says:

      10:46am | 23/06/11

      Yes John,
      It’s all a plot by Labor to make themselves as unpopular as possible.
      What an idiot.

    • graham says:

      09:10am | 23/06/11

      If, as some foolish posters suggest, Julia Gillard was interested only in “staying in power” and if, as those same dills suggest, the vast majority don’t want the carbon tax, then wouldn’t she, logically, get rid of the proposed tax? And stay in power? Bloody false pretenders.
      Erick.  Your post at 6.00am again is a crock. You are the most transparent poster here, and you have unfortunately followed your dream boy into the ‘no, no, no’ response to everything with a Labor input. Please prove me wrong by responding to this invitation to outline the benefits of Abbott’s plan, (?), the content of Abbott’s plan, (?), or even a rumour of Abbott’s plan, (?).
      Your failure to do so will be seen by every reader of the “Punch” as an admission by you that Abbott too is a crock.
      Your syncophantic chorus of supporters, (or are they all really you?), are welcome to add their ideas of “Abbott’s plan”. I, and many others who can act responsibly in the best interests of this great nation, look forward to your response. And please Erick don’t just say “No!”.
      In closing, I’ve got a rooster which crows unintelligible nonsense at sunrise too. Your real name’s not Leghorn, is it?

    • Steve says:

      10:48am | 23/06/11

      You are missing the point. It’s painfully obvious that the carbon tax is Bob Browns payment for putting Gillard in power, and to ensure supply when the greens take balance of power in the senate.
      Its the only thing that makes sense, given her statement just before the election.

    • LC says:

      11:56am | 23/06/11

      Well, either that, or it’s just a way to try and balance the books after Labor saw the enormous deficit they’d amassed.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:45pm | 23/06/11

      I agree with Steve and LC.

    • Macca says:

      09:31am | 23/06/11

      Well said, I think action on climate change is very important but it needs to be equitable. We must ensure that compensation does not go to the big polluters but to those on low incomes. Lets hope that the government is reading this article!

    • LC says:

      11:32am | 23/06/11

      If the point of the carbon tax was to encourage a shift to eco-friendly ways of living by making harmful products more expensive, what’s the point of giving a handful of people the money straight back? Where is the deterrent effect?

      There shouldn’t be any compensation to anyone at all.

      If I had to pick the worst pitfall of this plan, this would be it.

    • Pete says:

      09:38am | 23/06/11

      Yes, you have to laugh.  People all over are crying out for the government to actually do something and when they do they get howled down. Australia is a wonderful place isnt it.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      10:20am | 23/06/11

      Only the vocal minority are crying out for the government to do something about climate change.  The rest of us are too busy working and we wish the government would just butt out of our lives.

    • Coop says:

      02:48pm | 23/06/11

      Just have one small issue with this Pete in that the “doing something” bears no relationship to the indentified need.

      Australia was a wonderful place

    • NGs says:

      10:26am | 23/06/11

      So Louise it looks to me as though you would probably support a carbon tax with compensation and direct action. No wonder poor Julia is dazed and confused, but then she is a commie and its standard practise for them to be stupid, like unions…..

    • Harquebus says:

      10:31am | 23/06/11

      “new technologies like solar panels” are inefficient and do not return the energy that goes into their production.
      I laugh every time I hear some idiot say we need to transfer to renewable (perpetual) energy.
      Depopulate, consume less and plant lots and lots of trees. Everything else is BS.

    • John Smythe says:

      11:02am | 23/06/11

      *....and plant lots and lots of trees. *

      I’m with you Harq. In all this BS going on…not once have we seen anything about compensations for reforestation, recycling, actually protecting protected rainforests (instead of allowing them to be sold off…) or anything like that that will help reduce CO2 in the world.

      Nope…it has to be an immediate knee-jerk money grabbing reflex of a tax…...

    • iansand says:

      12:21pm | 23/06/11

      John Smythe - That is exactly what an ETS will do.  If you plant a few trees you earn carbon credits which can be sold into the system.  Or by sequestrating carbon in the soil, or any number of other schemes.

      If you have not come across that sort of concept you have not been trying very hard.

    • John Smythe says:

      01:48pm | 23/06/11

      ian ian ian…..you say this again but what does it have to do with it being acceptable to bypass the ETS and go straight for the tax?

      In the last thread where you played I am so superior, someone asked you that and you couldn’t answer….

      So….for your oh so superior self again…

      So, we need this carbon tax…why?

    • iansand says:

      02:15pm | 23/06/11

      Two things, John Smythe.  I am not particularly in favour of a tax.  However, if you had actually been listening you would have noticed that the proposed tax is a transition stage to a price on carbon - an ETS.  The problem is that, like most people of very little brain, you have been listening to opposition by slogan - “Great big new tax” and have not actually used what passes for your brain.

      If someone in some other thread asked that question I probably ignored it as the absurdity that it was.

    • John Smythe says:

      02:36pm | 23/06/11

      Not convincing really. That is the whole issue…but you keep fighting for it.

    • fml says:

      02:59pm | 23/06/11

      Introduce tax or stop people from breeding and having babies.

      Which do you think will be more popular?

    • iansand says:

      03:09pm | 23/06/11

      John Smythe - And you were doing so well.  Has the proof reader gone home?

    • John Smythe says:

      04:23pm | 23/06/11

      fml….kindly prove how the world is in such a bad state it has to be that drastic.

      ian…if there was a proposal for an ETS without the cash money grab by current government….then why do we need it in the first place? There is yet to be a convincing argument yet…..scare mongering on climate change, which does occur regardless is not enough to convince me. Simple as that. So no amount of smart arse comments from you will sway my requirement for a convincing argument why we need a CT to begin with. I have always said thee ARE other ways to handle this. You proved it with the ETS. There are still ways you don’t need to tax people or set up some market for carbon points.

    • iansand says:

      06:27pm | 23/06/11

      John Smythe - Nope.  Have another go.

      I am no advocate for a tax.  I am a strong advocate for a need to meet the problem and attempt to deal with it.  You are a strong advocate for woolly thinking and woollier expression.

    • John Smythe says:

      08:15pm | 23/06/11

      Ian you’ve done nothing but talk down anyone opposing this tax. Bit flaky to come out now saying you don’t support it. Bit ridiculous actually, but I about as much as we can expect form you really.

      fml, so where’s the backup of your previously over-dramatic choice?

    • iansand says:

      09:42pm | 23/06/11

      Tell you what, John Smythe.  Go and find where I have supported a tax.  I support taking action.  You will find a great deal of difficulty finding where I have supported a tax.  I have and will talk down too the credulous fools who rely on Bolt and his ilk as their sole source of information.  I will be downright scathing to the morons who think “Great big new tax” is a reasoned policy position.

      But logical thought is not your strong point.

    • John Smythe says:

      08:22am | 24/06/11

      hahahahaha Ian…you show yourself to be the big ignoramus you are.

      I don’t understand why people like you see anti-tax as equating to must be liberal or something like that.

      I have said one thing and one thing only…..I reject the idea that the current government…notice how I say current government, cause i really don’t care if its Labor, Liberal or Green….uses an immediate knee-jerk rejection to tax.

      In your race to prove how self-important you are, you have overlooked that.

      I also find it highly amusing that you discern anti-tax as being anti-action.  You are so focused on trying to prove how much better you believe you are, that you completely miss the argument being made.

      You are a legend in your own lunch time mate. Good luck with taxes that mean nothing to actually solving the problem at hand…cause you know just how much the environment needs money.

    • John says:

      10:42am | 23/06/11

      “We support action on climate change” - Wait, what? Who are the “we”? Certainly not the people I speak to every day. Europe introduced something similar in 2005, had no reduction in g/house gases but a 5-10% decrease in the standard of living. How’s that work for you?

    • JohnH says:

      12:15pm | 23/06/11

      Really?
      Please supply a link that backs up your all your outrageous claims.
      No Blogs

    • nihonin says:

      02:57pm | 23/06/11

      iansand is that you hiding behind JohnH?

      I offer to the court the evidence
      ‘iansand says:    11:35am | 23/06/11

            Joel B1 - Link please (not a blog).  The only thing that turns up on a google search of your “quote” is your comment.  Not very convincing, I’m afraid’.  Seems all to familiar.

    • iansand says:

      03:44pm | 23/06/11

      Nihonin - Obviously the concept of providing support for wild statements is foreign to you.  This explains a lot.  I notice JoelB1 has not offered any substantiation for his claim.

    • JohnH says:

      07:44pm | 23/06/11

      Neither has John.
      Typical conservative lies.

    • Anjuli says:

      12:23pm | 23/06/11

      If China can build a Green city with solar and wind turbines without the need for a carbon tax .They must be doing things in other areas , to change the way their people are going to live in the future,so what is wrong with Australia.

    • William Frost says:

      12:50pm | 23/06/11

      What is wrong with Australia you ask?
      You have a blocker and wrecker who’s only motivation is achieving political gain by spreading lies and fear amongst the electorate.
      He couldn’t give a shit about Australians or the fate of the planet. He only thinks of his political ambitions.

    • Coop says:

      02:42pm | 23/06/11

      Alternatively, you have a huge arsed lying real/fake redheaded tool who plans to shunt through a tax that achieves absolutely nothing in an attempt to appear to be doing something in an attempt to appease another extreme left wing tool so she can cling to power.

      Next it will legalise gay marriage in order to solve the European financial probelms

      It / she ony thinks of her political ambitions

    • William Frost says:

      07:51pm | 23/06/11

      Maybe in your alternate universe chicken keeper

      The government is blocking and wrecking in this universe
      The opposition are just proving what dimwits they are.

      You should be happy that they will legalise gay marriage.
      It means you can declare you love for your partner and come out and be socially accepted. No more hiding in the closet for you.

    • poa says:

      12:40pm | 23/06/11

      “Unions will hold Labor to account. “...ohhh..I laughed until tears rolled down my cheeks.
      What you gonna do..tell your members to vote for Tony Abbot?
      Yeah..right!!

    • Dr B S Goh says:

      12:43pm | 23/06/11

      The PM needs to do something different and radical and be seen as a decisive Australian Leader who cares for the people and listen to them.

      I suggest she accepts the challenge and go for the plebiscite. She has been boxed into a corner by the Greens on the carbon tax. The best outcome is to LOSE the plebiscite and say that it is the people’s wish NOT to have the carbon tax. This will give her a strong mandate not to proceed with the carbon tax which is based on Economics hocus pocus.

      With the carbon tax the ALP can be wiped out totally in the next election and be in the wilderness for 20 years. She has to think not what happens today but the future of ALP in the long run.

      As a scientist I believe in the nasty effects of global warming over the next 200 years. But the Australian carbon tax has negligible impact on global warming. Australia can have a far greater impact on global warming by lifting the embargo on uranium sale to India.

      Australia needs to find ways to fight global warming in Asia rather than in Australia.

      I just completed a long journey through a big Asian country and I was shocked to see widespread use of fire to burn the wheat stalks after harvest. The countryside in a train journey of 1000km is misty with smoke.

      The annual INCREASES in CO2 emission in China and India are GREATER than the annual TOTAL CO2 emission in Australia. Hence it is more cost effective for Australia to fight global warming by working with our major trading partners in Asia.

    • Dementer says:

      12:44pm | 23/06/11

      Just imagine if ‘ordinary Australians’ had a say on the Carbon Tax. The fact is ordinary Australians dont have a clue what global warming means to them, they are idiots and would see thier children if they could get cheap petrol. No wonder Gillard didnt take this tax to an election, she is best to ignore ordinary Australia and push on with the excellent work to save the planet.

      Some thing need to be outside of the democratic process and this is one of them.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:57pm | 23/06/11

      No need to do anything Dementer. Peak oil mate, peak oil.

    • Denny Crane says:

      04:35pm | 23/06/11

      they are idiots and would see thier children if they could get cheap petrol - who are you calling an idiot? i see my children everyday. Maybe you mean they would sell their children. I think you and Julia should run the country together. We idiots know not what to do or say and we should refer to your superior intellect to help us thru. Yeah - the day I refer to a foolish sheep is the day i get a job in the public service with all the other drop kicks.

    • RyaN says:

      01:18pm | 23/06/11

      “Ordinary Aussies need to be heard on carbon tax” in a democratic society yes, but surely you jest, with this communist government.
      Just think, in a years time you won’t even be allowed to post anything anti-government on a website without it being filtered by the Communist Conroy filter.
      Lets hope they don’t manage to acheive their objective of making us a one party state before the next election. Then again, by then they might have taken a leaf out of Mugabes book, he who counts the votes wins!

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      02:04pm | 23/06/11

      Ms Tarrant
      As a paid up member of United Voice, I question why you are wasting my $19 a fortnight promoting this charlatan idea of AGW! As for representing ‘low-paid’ workers on $25K-$35K, perhaps you should be concentrating on what is your core business, looking after the industrial relations of your members! I was having my own little say at the recent GetUp promoted event in Melbourne, surprise, surprise, who did I spring walking down the other side of the street, a bunch of people carrying United Voice banners and wearing United Voice hats. Boy! Didn’t they run for cover when I accused them of being scum who were wasting my fees without having a vote on the matter?
      What about your paying members, how are we going to be affected by JooLIAR’S Carbon Tax? What will happen if it comes in? How will it affect our jobs? While we may not be directly affected, what of the Security Officers who used to work at mines, power stations etc which will close down? What of the Cleaners, the Hospitality Workers who are laid off because there are no jobs in the towns any more?
      The ‘settled science’ has been shaken to the core. Our dams which were never going to have water in them again are now full. Our snow resorts are having one of their best sessions. The Murray Darling system, which was on its death bed has had floods for the third year running.
      If you want to experience ‘Global Warming’ come and walk with me down to the station at 4:00 o’clock in the morning as I prepare for my next shift instead of sitting in your nice air conditioned office in West Melbourne!

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      05:38pm | 23/06/11

      Ms Tarrant
      Perhaps you would like to explain to all of us here on The Punch about this article on the United Voice website?

      http://unitedvoice.org.au/climate-justice/sceptics-and-deniers/

      So if we do not tow the ALP/Greens/GetUp/ACTU line, does that make us all Sceptics?Deniers/Flat Earthers? wink

    • ausspud says:

      02:23pm | 23/06/11

      I cant believe we are still having this discussion.
      This whole discussion seems to be based on who has the best idea on achieving nothing.Whether you believe in globalwarming/climate change or not nothing we do will change anything.We could shut down industry and all of us pack up and leave this country and it will make no difference. All this is being pushed by a party who think the whole universe revolves around their huge ego. So please next topic.
      btw- if someone me “we must do our bit” ill bloody scream.

    • SKA says:

      02:28pm | 23/06/11

      I’m middle class, in fact, I’d argue that I’m privileged and amongst the upper classes because I have enough money to live comfortably on and pay my rent, I can even have nice holidays on occasion. I don’t earn $150K and I’m not even close to earning it - I’m below the Medicare levy too and only recently started paying back my HECS. I did earn $30K at one point but didn’t pay terribly much tax on that salary. The Gillard plan supposedly means that people on that salary of $30K are compensated for their carbon tax. People on my level of salary, which I consider comfortable and liveable, will definitely be hit hard by a carbon tax and as far as I can see, the Gillard plan doesn’t compensate people like me. The tax also doesn’t actually do anything for Global Warming. So why is the government trying to implement it? Oh that’s right, Bob Brown. Sigh.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      03:25pm | 23/06/11

      On ABC-Tv’s Q&A programme on Monday they had on the panel members of the so-called Y-Generation - What that makes me heaven only knows, but probably Generation-F or G!
      One of the panel members, Samah Hadid, when she wasn’t being condescending & insulting to older people, kept banging on & on & on about the Pro-Carbon Tax/Price rallies held around Australia a week-end or two ago.
      She claimed that the 45,000 who attended these rallies was clear evidence that all Australians were in favour of this tax and that few who attended the Anti-Carbon Tax rally were little better than neanderthals or somesuch insulting remark.
      Compared to Australia’s almost 23 millions those 45,000 are as nothing.
      What of the millions who attended the anti-Iraq war rallies a few years ago?
      These Pro-Carbon Tax rallies were held during a week-end.
      Two days in the week when the vast majority of those 23 millions do not go to work.
      How anyone can claim those rallies were a success is beyond me & probably most others.
      In Sydney it was estimated, no actual count is available, 10,000 people attended. At the same time football, in it’s various forms, attracted at least 8, if not 10 or more times that number. So much for the public’s backing for the Carbon Tax there.
      In Melbourne the rally there attracted a paltry, estimated, 8,000. The AFL game at the MCG attracted 10 or 11 times that number. The total number for all sporting events in Metropolitan Melbourne probably topped 120,000.
      Again, so much for the public’s support for the Carbon Tax - they’d rather go to the footy!
      In Adelaide the estimated crowd was a paltry 800-1000. Collectively, anything up to 40 or even 50 times that number of people attended sporting events in & around the city on the same day!
      For all it’s ALP Government’s claims that SA is at the forefront of being Environmentally Conscious & doing something about reducing emissions, & given that most people were not working, that 800-1000 of “concerned citizens” is hardly a ringing endorsement of the Gillard Carbon Tax.

    • Richard says:

      03:47pm | 23/06/11

      Totally agree about Samah Hadid. If she could ooze out any more condescension and morally superior snootyness from her demeanor and tone of voice she’d be dripping.

    • John says:

      04:24pm | 23/06/11

      More people were at the Broncos game. And they weren’t paid to attend, they had to pay to attend.

    • Holly says:

      05:16pm | 23/06/11

      For the information of Denny Crane - I have never been a leech.  I have worked for most of my adult life (admittedly in low earning sector), raised 5 children before baby bonuses, child care benefit, family payments etc were available.  Compulsory super came in during the early nineties starting at 3% (we had to forgo a pay increase to get this). So I am one of those women who never got a whole lot of super.  All I am saying is if I had the good fortune to have enough money behind me to be a self funded retiree then I would be very happy and I would not whinge about it at every opportunity.  And I would like it if they didn’t either because now I know how rich they actually are and what a drain on the economy their tax free super is.  (I wont bother to go into detail here about how we all subsidise their huge super contributions and payouts - they are actually the ones well and truly on the teat of the rest of us if you take the trouble to analyse it).

    • The Liberal Loafer says:

      06:59pm | 23/06/11

      :the wise Australian sees everything, hears everything,writes nothing and says nothing.
      thats why the wise Australian is not The Australian or Katter’s Australian Party.

    • The Liberal Loafer says:

      07:01pm | 23/06/11

      speak up or shut up!

    • The Liberal Loafer says:

      07:04pm | 23/06/11

      exactly who is the average Australian or the ordinary Australian ??Is it a nothing bloke? Or a Liberal Loafer?

    • Leopard says:

      09:28pm | 23/06/11

      Liberal Loafer - are you okay?

    • Ray says:

      10:01pm | 23/06/11

      The author fails to address why we should have a carbon tax at all.

      In fact, there is no compelling scientific evidence that human-caused carbon dioxide emissions are the driver of global warming. (Note that the misleading term climate change is used, as there has not been any global warming since about 1998.

      There is no global agreement calling for a carbon tax to be introduced.

      It is clear that the only reason Labor is calling for a carbon tax, is to appease the Greens. The Greens would like the carbon tax to be set at a high rate, so that the Government can exercise wide-ranging regulatory power and control the way we live. This is wowserism in the extreme.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:16am | 24/06/11

      One of the major problems with the “ordinary people” having their say on government policy and action is so eloquently expressed in the above posts. In KISS terms “ordinary people” having their say boils down to the iteration of political rhetoric by the adherents to particular parties.
      This is what makes adversarial political government such an unsatisfactory way to run a country - two choices the government or the opposition not a variety of reasoned approaches debated, digested and teased out to bring the best governance to the country.
      The majority of the unread, even the semi-read have read so little and so narrowly that their opinion is quite null and void. The worst are those who have succumb to the conspiracy syndrome - eg “so that the Government can exercise wide-ranging regulatory power and control the way we live,” “there has not been any global warming since about 1998,”
      Thank God there are so many experts among the unread, especially those that know better than the majority of respectable scientists in the world.
      We can do two things: 1. Nothing and cop the anthropogenic mass extinction or 2. try to put it off for a while by not releasing the carbon sequestered over a period of 600 million year in less than 300 years.
      Where has Australian common sense gone? Is the tall poppy syndrome so entrenched that we now cut everyone down to moron level?
      What has happened to the respect held for intellectual balance? Did the Howard government really reduce Australians to “follow the leader” status when he announced the Australian preference to applied research rather than original research? Are Australians now no more than followers rather than innovators?
      The government has access to the best brains of the country, if not the world, to make decisions on behalf of the great unread, uneducated and unwashed.
      And the opposition has access to the same, yet they bombard us with cliches, 90 second grabs of poli-speak and the great unwashed and unread repeat them ad nauseam - “great new tax,” “Juliar,” “illegal asylum seekers…”
      The politicians only do it for themselves - as if the taxes go into their pockets - has anyone actually looked at what the advantage is to the government in enacting something unpopular? To stay in power is easy if you just do whatever the public wants and buy their votes. Governments that do what “has to be done” against the odds is one that achieves advances for the country not an opposition that continues to cry wolf.

    • Kevin says:

      03:43pm | 02/07/11

      When will people wake up If the CARBON doxide tax comes in most of our jobs will go to overseas. Then with no workers the unions will have no fees,
      Then the working class will not vote Labour until hell freezes over. Then we can call this “climate change”.

    • Billy says:

      06:13pm | 02/07/11

      Most ordinary Aussies along with a considerable number of eminent scientists from around the world think that “man made climate change” is a load of crap. We don’t like the idea of having a tax on carbon dioxide. Humans breath out carbon dioxide so where will the taxing stop? The unions are behaving shamefully and against the interests of their members by supporting this tax.

    • Kevin says:

      01:35am | 03/07/11

      The rank & file need to stand up to their union’s by telling them unless they withdraw their support for this adhorent attack on all Australians with this tax, they will resign from the union. When the next rally is held against the carbon doxide tax they could all burn their union cards.
      This is the only way this joke of a govenment will listen.

    • James Elkins says:

      12:06am | 29/07/11

      I’m sick of Gillard referring to us as decent hard working Australian Families and telling us that we are going to lose the Barrier Reef etc, etc. We are not stupid and even if we pay $1000 a ton to reduce our carbon these things will still take place if climate change proves to be the problem it is toted as. Carbon tax is certainly one way to achieve a result but having seen what the government I voted for has done with our monbey to date, I don’t trust them enough to vote for them again.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Malcolm Farr

@AndrewCatsaras Agreed. Kills more people than AIDS. Yet tolerated. Meanwhile: Good Insiders piece again Andrew.

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @JamieTravers: I'm in Europe and don't care for Eurovision, why is my twitter feed filled with Aussies recounting the bloody thing!?

Anthony Sharwood

Dementor doing a good job for sweden #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

Ukraine song pinches chord progression from The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony. Fo real #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter