This morning David Penberthy wrote about how worryingly effective health minister Nicola Roxon has been in office. He argued the preventative health agenda has taken hold of public policy, with millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money being directed towards stopping people doing some things that are generally seen as pleasurable, like eating bacon, sitting on the couch or having four middies of beer.

We just want to collect your completed form

As part of this program the government will take a snapshot of the nation’s health by surveying 50,000 people about their lifestyle. Today it’s reported the survey will be compulsory. If you are selected and don’t answer the questions, you will be fined, $110 a day, until you agree to surrender information about your personal lifestyle choices to the government. You may also get a knock on the door at 3am from clipboard-wielding statisticians.

Here’s an excerpt from today’s story:

The Australian Health Survey announced in last week’s Budget will be the most comprehensive research on the health of Australians ever undertaken and will be jointly funded by the National Heart Foundation.

But the 50,000 people chosen to take part will be compelled to do so.

Participants will be weighed and measured and will be asked to give a blood and urine sample.

They will also be asked detailed questions on what they drink and eat and their physical activity.

The ABS said participation “is ultimately compulsory for those chosen by random sampling to ensure the survey accurately represents the Australian population as a whole”.

Why does the government need to collect this information?

The medical industry and health policy makers already have, at their fingertips, a staggering array of information on the health of the public. There is no field of study that is better funded and researched than the health sciences.

Where do you start? The information available includes causes of death, obesity rates, smoking rates, diabetes prevalence, instances of individual types of cancer, usage of prescription medicines, and alcohol consumption per capita.

The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, a federal government agency, already has a vast array of information on public health. Rates of heart disease, cancers, osteoporosis, depression, asthma, and various cancers are tracked over time.

There are all manner of longitudinal studies including Growing Up in Australia, which is following the development of 10,000 children and families around the country. This, too, is a federal government initiative. The CSIRO recently surveyed over 2500 people on their lifestyle and consumption habits.

And this is before you get to university-run and privately-funded research which, from small, volunteer testing groups to large-scale longitudinal studies, look at every conceivable aspect of healthcare delivery and public health policy. There is at least one, sometimes many more, academic journal for every established branch of the medical profession.

Some of the journals indexed by the National Library include the Australian Journal of Music Therapy, the Australia and New Zealand Continence Journal, the Australian Journal of Oto-Laryngology, and Gecko: a Journal of Deconstruction and Narrative Ideas in Therapeutic Practice.

Add to this the vast wealth of information about the population from research in social science - which captures information about people who might not necessarily come into contact with the health system - and it’s hard not to conclude that the government already has available to it all the information it needs on the health, wellbeing, and lifestyle choices of Australians.

And yet here is the government saying it needs more information on the health of Australians and is willing to fine people actual money if they refuse to say what they typically have for breakfast.

Roxon, you don’t have to put on the green light for this one.

102 comments

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    • Sheedy's Left Foot says:

      12:50pm | 19/05/10

      Bring on compulsory barcoding,  retina scanning and gps tracking.

      Fining people for not taking part in another survey when there are hundreds of alternative data sources is frankly wrong.

      Still, you vote for Socialism and you get the nanny state and a bloated government that insists on meddling in every aspect of our lives.

      Government should be there to govern, not micro-manage the population’s daily lives.

    • happy days says:

      03:05pm | 19/05/10

      Bravo we will keep the red flag flying high in the socialist republic of Ruddistan to be that his comrades plan for happy and complete future

    • Robert of Rural SA says:

      10:50pm | 19/05/10

      Will the clocks strike 13 (George Orwell 1984)

    • BS in ABS says:

      12:50pm | 19/05/10

      how about raising a fund to pay the contributors $111 a day to provide false answers and urine samples?

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      01:06pm | 19/05/10

      All your information are belong to us. Submit today. We will be asking only questions.

    • watchingwithinterest says:

      01:06pm | 19/05/10

      Unbelievable.  I don’t have a problem answering a few questions for the good of the community but if they think that I am going to pee in a cup and have a needle stuck in my arm, then they are kidding themselves.  This is a free country not communist nation.  And any such compulsion to do this is an invasion of privacy which should be resisted by all.  If the labor party thinks this is acceptable then they have really lost touch with reality

    • luke09 says:

      02:46pm | 19/05/10

      This is Rudd’s Country based on his personal ideals, soon we will be only allowed to wear grey clothing and immediately cease all communications with outside world(internet censorship). The true believers(loyal supporters) of the Rudd government will tell you, only they know what is best for us and only they have the answers.

    • Darren P says:

      01:07pm | 19/05/10

      Australia seems to be becoming the NWO’s testing ground for it’s policies that it will later introduce to the world when the One World Government (funded by the immoral and illegal and downright wrong carbon tax). There is a definite opportunity for a people’s party to use the anti-government backlash to become a 3rd major player in politics like the lib dems in britain. Running with a policy of small government they’d make huge inroads. I’d even stand for such a party in local elections

    • Zeta says:

      02:40pm | 19/05/10

      Forget starting a political party. I’m building a compound out in the desert. Join me. BYO multiple wives.

    • Daniel says:

      03:35pm | 19/05/10

      Paranoid much?

      I look forward to seeing how my choice of breakfast cereals, and my daily exercise regime is used against me in the near future.

    • Laughing says:

      01:18pm | 19/05/10

      I don’t mind if they select me but they better bring an ambulance if I am to give blood!! I am blood phobic, I will be on the floor soon as I see the needle. I have no idea why they would want this info but here’s a thought maybe they are going to clone more Aussies and not worry about immigration!

    • jt says:

      01:21pm | 19/05/10

      It’s one thing to compel us to fill in a survey about our lives re income, where we live and so on. You can fudge those truths if you want to.

      But to give them real information about your health? Forget it. I’ll pay the fine and fight them in court on the grounds that the Magna Carta gave me the right over my body and how I choose to use it.

    • Daniel says:

      04:19pm | 19/05/10

      What is so precious about providing real information about your health? Is it really that disturbing that the government wants to build up a national health profile to help focus services where needed?

    • Greek Snake says:

      01:01pm | 20/05/10

      @Daniel: Heard of privacy? We all have a right to privacy. The right to keep our details a secret.

      While there are current privacy concerns over Facebook, there are much more real and threatening privacy concerns at our very doorstep. At least facebook is voluntary. You use it if you want to. You put information up there that you want seen, and you hide what you don’t. Simple.

      The minute governments come up with these silly socialist ideas, privacy becomes a thing of the past. Our details become owned by a single source and then we become objects and not people. Identified by a number which carries the meta-data of blood type, genetic diseases, height, weight, food intake and exercise regime. When does it stop?

      Put your foot down, do not be bullied by a pathetic government into something that you do not want to take part in. By all means, let there be volunteers for something like this, but for a government to muscle it’s way into the privacy of people’s lives is a joke. Don’t let it happen.

    • Chris says:

      01:22pm | 19/05/10

      It is a little known historical fact that the siege at the Pub in Glenrowan with the Kellys was an early version of this type of ‘compelling information gathering’. Apparently the Colonial Public Health Commissioner for Victoria wanted more information on the health impacts of large amounts of facial hair on the drinking habits of Irishmen. Look how that ended up!!!!

    • annie says:

      03:08pm | 19/05/10

      yes mate i heard that too and i only have a few hairs around my kleft nipple

    • Greg W says:

      01:22pm | 19/05/10

      I must have been out to lunch when China landed and hijacked our “democracy”. I for one would go to all measures imaginable to avoid doing the survey, purely because I was being forced, and if I was ultimately left with no alternative, my answers would be so wildly fictional that the survey results would not bear any resemblance to the truth. I wonder for how many other people this would also prove the case. Kind of defeats the reasoning behind forcing people for reasons of getting a true cross-section of opinion, does it not?

    • David says:

      01:31pm | 19/05/10

      While I agree there is a vast array of research performed using large data sets relating to a variety of health determinants and issues, this doesn’t mean the new survey isn’t valuable. A very large sample is required if you are going to achieve a sample size statistically powerful enough to draw firm conclusions from the data (should the data present any) regarding the nation’s health.

      This is entirely separate from the issue regarding the compulsion to participate (which the blood and urine samples are voluntary). As a population health researcher I find it abhorrent to compel people to participate in health research. To enfore the divulgence of personal information by threat of financial penalty in contradictory to the liberal value of privacy.

      I work with large individual-level data which has been screened and limited in its provision to me in order to prevent identification of individuals (inadverdant or otherwise). I have no issue with this, I can do research, which i feel is important and valuable, and people’s privacy remain entact. It is a balancing act no doubt but a balance must be struck. Clearly the 1905 act which provides the ABS with the power to fine and enfringe upon people is no longer representative of a society which likes to call itself a liberal democracy.

    • Zeta says:

      01:37pm | 19/05/10

      They’ll have to claw my urine sample from my cold dead hands.

      Delete your Facebook. Smash your cell phone. Build a Faraday cage. Dig a VPN tunnel. Don’t look up. Stockpile ammo.

      They’re coming.

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      02:34pm | 19/05/10

      All your status update are belong to us. For your own health and happy state, we observe. Lucky country running placed urine sample. Enjoy.

    • Nicola Roxon from Room 101 says:

      06:24pm | 19/05/10

      Zeta, please stay where you are.  We are on our way to collect… samples…

    • Robert of Rural SA says:

      10:55pm | 19/05/10

      Zeta for president! ! !

    • luke09 says:

      01:38pm | 19/05/10

      Not even North Korea would subject its citizens to forcibly comply to a survey. I know Australia’s debt is way out of control but fining the unwilling participants everyday is obscene. The Rudd government should just raise the GST for their money grab.

    • David says:

      02:43pm | 19/05/10

      You clearly have no comprehension of the level of intrusion, restriction and control North Korea holds over its population, the little information that leaks out of the country still makes Australia look like a liberal utopia.

      The fines aren’t a debt reducing measure *sigh* the fines originate from a 1905 act relating to ABS census and surveys.

    • JR says:

      03:11pm | 19/05/10

      So that justifies them does it David?

    • luke09 says:

      03:18pm | 19/05/10

      David, okay I might have used pollie speak(exaggerated the truths) but why do they want to know what people eat, drink etc… any health related problems or concerns is really none of the governments business.

    • David says:

      03:43pm | 19/05/10

      I didn’t say it justifies the fines or compulsion to participate merely calling the exaggeration out.

      Dietry information is worth researching in order to assess a major contributing factor to the nation’s health. The government is responsible for the provision of the vast majority of our health services, using our tax dollars. If you want a government to be able to increase the cost-effectiveness of the system it needs to know the driving factors of demand.

      As I said in my comment above, I’m a researcher who works with population level data in epidemioligcal research - specifically health services research. I don’t support the fines or the compulsion to participate, people should only provide this kind of information voluntarily and anonymously.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:43pm | 19/05/10

      What?

      I can be fined, for not handing over a blood sample?

      Jesus Christ.  Can they hear my thoughts too?

      *grabs tinfoil hat*

    • David says:

      02:39pm | 19/05/10

      No but Jesus can hear your thoughts I’m told raspberry

    • Elphaba says:

      02:53pm | 19/05/10

      He’s alright.  He’d be ok with me eating chocolate on the couch in my knickers.

      Wouldn’t he?

      Hey Zeta, if I build a Faraday cage, does the TV go inside or outside?

    • Zeta says:

      03:40pm | 19/05/10

      @Elphaba - Got sour news for ya jack. You’re gonna have to lose the TV. Unless it’s a CRT, better known as a ‘tube’ television, preferebly made in the early ‘90s. Modern LCD/Plasma televisions are increasingly made with HD tuners built in. An HD tuner is a two way receiver, so it’s easy enough for ‘them’ to hack your incoming feed and even send information back.

      Now, survivalism can get lonely, so you might want to watch Red Dawn in high definition to keep your hopes up. What I did was pick up a 2007 model Samsung and physically remove the internal HD tuner - this was one of the last models to feature the tuner on an ad hoc PCI slot and not hard wired onto the TV’s motherboard.

      Look, your Faraday cage is going to interfere with your incoming signals. And trust me, trying to wire in an aerial to your TV passing through your cage is going to limit the integrity of your cage.

      Television is their way of keeping you stupid. If you’ve built the cage, you’re not stupid anymore. So you don’t need their TV.

    • Elphaba says:

      04:18pm | 19/05/10

      I have a tube TV, but you make a good point.

      I better bring a stack of books into the cage…

    • Patrick says:

      09:27pm | 19/05/10

      IMO The Punch needs to give Zeta a blog of his own, his random opinions of the day and the latest way to get the edge on the latest alien overlords / conspiracy theory / completely obscure but somehow fascinating information.

    • Scott Glennon says:

      01:46pm | 19/05/10

      I’d fill it out just to save 110 bucks, but my answers would reflect a perfect human being, someone like Justin Beaver less a waist tattoo or Lindsay Lohan before she met Jack Daniels.
      Why stop at 50000? We could install weight, height and blood sampling machines at all supermarket entrances and profile what places are the fattest, what food chains will be required to shut down and what compulsary exercise can be enforced.

    • Grant says:

      01:55pm | 19/05/10

      Since when does any government have the legal right to take blood for a census.

      I would not comply with this, if I was selected.

    • David says:

      02:40pm | 19/05/10

      The blood and urine samples are not compulsory (possibly because the law doesn’t allow them to make the sample component of the study compulsory).

    • Scott Glennon says:

      02:47pm | 19/05/10

      The questions are the only mandatory part of the effort. Everything else would be voluntary.

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      02:54pm | 19/05/10

      Happy citizens bleed for motherland freely. It is a duty to give honour. All your DNA are belong to us for good of proud nation. Respect.

    • Brissy says:

      02:01pm | 19/05/10

      Well, if I’m selected then I’ll just not vote for Rudd in the next election.  Simple.  And I’ll lie, lie lie

    • hugh says:

      02:01pm | 19/05/10

      what if i claim its against my religion to partake in any of the above?

    • Yon Toad says:

      02:01pm | 19/05/10

      I’ll do it if Nicola comes and collects the sample personally…

    • Matt says:

      03:28pm | 19/05/10

      Yuk! Really.

    • ABC says:

      02:26pm | 19/05/10

      Now I am someone who could, if required, Spin Bullshit for Australia if there was such a category in the Olympics.  I have delved deep into the wells of my bullshit capacity however, I cannot come up with any kind of vaguely cogent or in anyway reasonable argument for the requirement to compel people to answer these questions. Is that why all the quotes to be had on this topic come from the ABS, because the Government (well Nicola Roxon) would have to front up and defend what appears to be indefensible?  Given that the Government is all in a lather about Tony Abbott’s truthfulness I would have thought this was the perfect opportunity for the Government to demonstrate their capacity for meeting the truth challenge head on and giving a truthful explanation of why people seeking to legitimately protect their privacy can have that privacy forcibly breached and compelled to disclose information under threat of pecuniary punishment.  Nicola?  You appear to be very quiet my dear - what is it that we are compelled, not obliged, but forcibly compelled to provide this information?  What is it that you hope to discover that is not already available in the vast swathes of information of the type Paul has described.  C’mon you nosy bint - what?

    • Matt Stewart says:

      06:14pm | 19/05/10

      “I cannot come up with any kind of vaguely cogent or in anyway reasonable argument for the requirement to compel people to answer these questions.”

      I can give you vaguely cogent reason, but not a compelling one.  I’m sure they will be able to find 50,000 volunteers, particularly if they put up a few bucks, but that introduces a selection bias.  It MAY eventuate that people who are more likely to volunteer for a survey, are also more likely to engage in other kinds of behaviour.  By selecting people at random and then compelling them to take part, they remove some forms of bias.

      But in my book, that is not a good enough justification.  Any self-selection bias is likely to be a urine sample in the ocean compared to number of people that lie, either consciously or subconsciously, about their lifestyle.  I don;t have a reference handy for you, but it is recognised that when doinf behavioural surveys, people will tend to overstate their good behaviours (exercise, healthy food) and understate their bad behaviours (smoking, drinking, lying, TV watching, littering etc).  Whether they are lying to the surveyor or lying to themselves is a moot point in terms of data quality.

    • Peter says:

      02:30pm | 19/05/10

      _Compulsory_ collection of personal health information by the federal government. _Compulsory_ internet filtering by the federal government. Is this the type of society we want in Australia, or is it time Australians spoke up?

    • Matthew Zammit says:

      02:34pm | 19/05/10

      I’m all for things like health to be incorporated into a federal system rather than eight different systems - but as Australians what we must fundamentally recognise is that any savings from streamlining a health system will be taken away by this sort of absurdity that continues to come out of Canberra.  We have our country administered by an old sheep paddock full of people who think a riveting night is spent on the couch in front of Kerry O’Brian, drinking cask wine and filling out forms.  First, we take Canberra…

    • Michael with sense enough to look up the legislati says:

      02:50pm | 19/05/10

      You think you can refuse to participate? You think you can refuse them entry into your home? Guess again.  This is AUSTRALIAN LAW.

      Census and Statistics Act 1905 (Cth)
      http://nswccl.org.au/docs/pdf/ABS Surveys.pdf

      2.2 Is the Survey compulsory?

      Initially, an individual will be requested to complete the survey.
      If the individual refuses, the Statistician has authority under Subsections 10(4) and 11(2) of the Act to direct the individual to answer the survey. This direction must be given in writing. Once given this direction, a person cannot refuse to answer the survey, unless they are objecting on religious grounds. A person who, without reasonable excuse fails to
      complete the survey upon direction of the Statistician is guilty of an offence punishable by a fine of no more than $100 per day that they fail to provide the information, after the deadline specified in the written direction

      A person may not make a statement, either orally or in writing, or furnish a document containing information, that is to his or her knowledge false or misleading in a material particular. Penalty is $1000.5

      ...AND IT GETS BETTER!

      2.3 Can the Statistician enter a person’s home?

      The Statistician or an authorised officer cannot enter a dwelling house (including a flat or home unit or premises occupied or used for the purposes of residence or sleeping). They may however at all reasonable times, enter any other premises for the purpose of:
      (a) Supplying persons with forms;
      (b) collecting forms that have been supplied to persons; and
      (c) making inquiries for the purposes of the Act.

    • Paul says:

      09:51pm | 19/05/10

      They can’t enter your home! Read what you quoted. They can only enter other premises that are not dwellings.

    • Tom H says:

      10:05am | 20/05/10

      Well, there’s an easy solution. Who’s ready to join my new religion, “The Church of Jesus Christ of not filling in surveys”. All we need is a Facebook Group right?

      Dealt with, next issue.

    • gra gra says:

      02:51pm | 19/05/10

      Section 51, subsection (xxiiiA) of the Constitution, which outlines the Powers of the Parliament, says that the laws regarding unemployment benefits, medical and dental services, and a raft of other benefits and services shall be made but “(not so as to authorise ANY form of civil conscription)”. Seems to make a mockery of our Constitution to conscript citizens to comply with the Government’s demands in this matter, and also in Howard’s ‘Work for the Dole” scheme. But they knew that scheme was unlawful when they established same. Still, its only our Constitution. Who cares.

    • Quinn says:

      03:07pm | 19/05/10

      Roxon can confidentally send out a results press release before she’s even recieved a single survey back - ‘Australia in the grip of intense privacy-paranoia epidemic’.

      Yes, they have access to myriad data from GP’s, hospitals. This is data on people already ill. Health policy rightly should encompass more than the absence of illness. Yes they have data from opt in studies. Data supplied by people who are curious about the state of their health, and more likely to look after themselves. Since health policy applies also those who would shun opt in studies, forcing a nationwide survey is the only way to get statistically meaningful data to build nationwide health policy on.

      I have mixed feelings about the samples, but then, they are voluntary. Don’t like it? Don’t give them. But do your civic duty and help these researchers provide the government with the information they need to build effective health policy.

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      03:33pm | 19/05/10

      Civic duty provides highest honourable happiness. All your children are belong to the future. We are the future. Building effective health policy equals working families bettering.

    • Matt says:

      03:43pm | 19/05/10

      That would be all very nice if this Government was capable of doing anything useful with the information once it has been collected.

      I have absolute confidence if this survey goes ahead it will be a couple of billions of dollars over budget and the results will not result in any sound policy.

      Of course they want to go down this path, because preventative health doesn’t really have measurable outcomes.

      On the other hand we have longer hospital waiting lists, under resourced hospitals that can’t pay for bandages, women miscarrying and people dying in emergency departments, newly built hospitals and operating theatres that are not fit for the intended purpose and the list goes on.

      I wish they would just do their jobs and butt out of my life.

    • TC says:

      05:03pm | 20/05/10

      Since when does health policy “rightly encompass more than the absence of illness”? I rather thought the government were there to govern and doctors were there to deal with questions relating to health.

    • Michael says:

      03:22pm | 19/05/10

      Why don’t they ask for volunteers? I’d be first in line to volunteer if its for the good of the nation, but i will dance in bureaucratic blood before they will coerce me. Politicans and public sevents need to remember they serve us, continue down paths like these and all the riot coppers in the world won’t save you from the peoples rage.

    • Matt Stewart says:

      06:19pm | 19/05/10

      Probably because they want to avoid self-selection bias.

    • Anthony says:

      04:02pm | 19/05/10

      Wasn’t the last government to force people to participate in medical research German? The whole process sets a dangerous precident for the future direction of medical reasearch.

    • Daniel says:

      04:42pm | 19/05/10

      They’re asking questions, not grafting on 3rd arms and injecting you with aids.

      Wake up to yourself.

    • marley says:

      04:29pm | 19/05/10

      As I said before, if they want to know what our lifestyles are,  all they need to do is ask the big chains - Woolies, Coles, Aldi, et al, can give them book and verse on what it is we eat, drink and smoke.  And they won’t be able to lie about it, either.

    • Daniel says:

      04:58pm | 19/05/10

      Because all they want to know is what we eat, drink and smoke right.

    • marley says:

      07:34pm | 19/05/10

      They’re asking about life-style.  And that seems to involve what we eat and drink and how we exercise.

      There are bucketloads of studies already in place on this.  But sure, do another one.  But do it intelligently.

      The big chains can give a helluva lot of information about what we consume, so why not use it?  And State health departments certainly have the figures on various ailments like diabetes 2, lung cancer, morbid obesity etc which are related to lifestyle choices. 

      There’s a whole lot of data out there. Collect it and use it, instead of annoying people because the bureaucrats are too lazy or inept to make use of the data they already have.

    • Anthony says:

      04:51pm | 19/05/10

      Your right Daniel, but it is a poor form of medical research, that will generate much more bias(I mean that in a scientific way) than standard methods of research.  That is the similarity with the german research. It is a useless scientific method and does not sit well with many people.

    • Karen x says:

      05:02pm | 19/05/10

      I can’t do it, I am saving my blood and urine for an emergency. Well maybe not the urine but then again , I might want to save it in the future. Surely they can’t make you do this, its seems an invasion of privacy to me of the worst kind

    • Matt Dee says:

      05:07pm | 19/05/10

      If I didn’t know this was for real I’d have thought this was a plot for the next blade Runner movie. This is truly scary stuff and the government can get stuffed, this is military state policy!

    • Margaret says:

      05:12pm | 19/05/10

      If challenged in the High Court the Government would lose.

    • TheRedHead says:

      05:19pm | 19/05/10

      Just try it on, boys! They can have my wee - but they may not like the method of delivery. I have great aim!

    • james reilly says:

      05:48pm | 19/05/10

      will not survive a high court challenge

    • Margaret says:

      05:55pm | 19/05/10

      James I would be interested to know why

    • Robert says:

      09:12pm | 19/05/10

      Because ever since World war 1 the overwhelming statutory and common law position is that all medical research involving humans shall require the consent of all participants, free from all coercion, force or threat.

      The nuremberg code, written by the judges presiding over the trial of NAZI doctors following WW2 states ” The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion.”

      Likewise the NHMRC statement which covers research involving humans in Australia states “Before research is undertaken, whether involving individuals or collectivities, the consent of the participants must be obtained,” and goes on to state “A person may refuse to participate in a research project and need give no
      reasons nor justification for that decision.”

      It is clearly enshrined in the law that human medical research must have free consent and allow free refusal of consent without repurcussion. That is why this would not survive a high court challenge.

    • iReporter says:

      06:15pm | 19/05/10

      Not only Kevin speaks Chinese, he is implementing their totalitarian regime.
      Welcome to China mates!

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      09:22pm | 19/05/10

      Honorable Kevin glorious leader. Happiness for second term and becoming closer with our same.

    • Don Clark says:

      07:14pm | 19/05/10

      The ABS has a very long history of collecting good data for the Nation with our money, and doing a good job of it all, independent of the Government of the day, of whichever Party.

      The ABS has had the power to compel answers to surveys and to Censuses, by its various Acts and Regulations,  as passed under Governments of all persuasions.  No doubt the ABS would prefer informed, willing, voluntary co-operation - and certainly makes very considerable effort to that end.

      However, when they are running a large and expensive survey drawn from a representative sample, they’d be disinclined for reasons of quality or precedent to offer a “voluntary” option. We’re all citizens - its a bit like jury duty, we all need to be in it if selected. The same goes for the Census.

      There’s a fair, somewhat lengthy process of request, notice, and legal notification of direction to go through, which I understand usually results in response. However, ultimately, the ABS can and does prosecute for non-compliance. And there they certainly do succeed. They don’t need to do it very often - most people understand the worth of their contribution.

      From time to time there are rather inflamed stories like this. Ex-Senator Stott Despoja comes to mind, though after her time in the Senate you might have thought she’d have known better, as a user of ABS data and having passed several sets of Census and other ABS Regulations.

      Overall the ABS does a very good job, despite these occasional beat-ups. And we all benefit.

    • chris says:

      10:06am | 21/05/10

      Don, you work for the ABS so you should have declared that before lecturing us on what a great job you do. Your dismissal of a voluntary option sends chills down my spine. I hope your children experience the totalitarianism that you inflict on others one day.

    • Don Clark says:

      11:26am | 21/05/10

      1. Anyone can look up the ABS site, survey practice,  annual report and media covergae to check what their survey & compulsion policy is.

      2. Voluntary: Check the original article and the ABS site. The tests part of the survey is voluntary.

      I don’t work there. I did some years ago.

    • Duke says:

      07:50pm | 19/05/10

      Dear Nicola.

      Do try it on dear.

      Then say after me:  “class action, what class action?  Oh, THAT class action!”

    • Jawed says:

      09:31pm | 19/05/10

      Is it compulsory to be truthful in one’s response to the survey? Like the Opposition Leader, my words should not always be taken as the ‘gospel truth’.

    • M says:

      10:27pm | 19/05/10

      What the *hell*?!  This is outrageous!  I don’t see anything wrong with filling in a survey, I’d be happy to provide information that would help a study into the lifestyle of the average Australian.  But a urine sample?  You have *got* to be kidding…is this the Gulag?!  Did I wake up in a different country today?

    • Informed Giant says:

      12:30am | 20/05/10

      yes, welcome to the UK circa 6 May 2010

    • Bek says:

      03:38am | 20/05/10

      Oh for goodness’ sake.  It’s compulsory because they’re trying to ensure a representative sample.  Yes, lots of research is currently undertaken, but it’s generally limited by sampling inadequacies.  This is a fantastic opportunity to collect reliable, valid data that will ultimately be of benefit to everyone.  To comply with the incredibly stringent ethics requirements, the privacy of all respondents will be comprehensively protected.

      You’d be furious if you thought medical interventions, public health policy or health resource allocation was decided on the basis of inadequate evidence, and yet so many people seem to object to the collection of this information.  It’s a sad indictment of our education system that so few people have a good enough grip on statistical and scientific issues to engage in a meaningful way.

    • Mao Tse Tails says:

      07:45am | 20/05/10

      Submit to testing today. Otherwise foolishness apparent. We protect happy populace from self-foolishness. All your data are belong to us. Prosper now!

    • Nitzpicker says:

      08:48am | 20/05/10

      Questions? survey?, fine, blood sample and urine sample? not a chance in hell,  Governments lie and can not be trusted to do what is right.
      This is not about statistics and numbers, it is about choice, invasion of privacy, it is an overstepping of boundaries and power that no government should ever have.
      They can ask me if i want to participate, but ultimately it is my decision.

    • Sheedy's Left Foot says:

      09:13am | 20/05/10

      Nonsense.

      Most people appeciate the need for the collection of data relevant for research that will have beneficial impacts on peoples lives, however people also are often unwilling to provide information whcih they feel personally uncomfortable with and feel government have no business knowing.

      I am more than happy to fill out Census data covering demographics, ethnicity, religion etc, but what I object strongly to is government forcing me to divulge what I do in my private life and around my lifestyle. I have nothing to hide, but I do not feel that it should be the remit of givernment to make me partcipate in a survey about something which is frankly none of their business.

      There are other ways in which thay can collect this data. There is a host of existing studies and research elements that they can use to build the picture they want from this survey by aggregating freely available information that is not attributed directly to an individual forced to comply with the process.

      For someone who professes to be a research expert, I am sure you are aware that compulsion will skew the data just as much as any other incentive element and that represenative samples for s study such of this can be achieved through volunteers.

    • Anna says:

      09:44am | 20/05/10

      People seem to think that medical research somehow works without subjects and data from actual people. If you share the benefits of modern medicine, shouldn’t you shoulder some of the responsibility?

    • Ellis says:

      09:31am | 20/05/10

      Mao Tse Trails is really very funny indeed - and just perhaps, right on the button too.
      What isn’t funny is Big Brother in action.
      If I were asked - and in MY view given a good and sufficient reason - I would volunteer.
      Under compulsion - Roxon has rocks in her head!!

    • Matthew Zammit says:

      10:11am | 20/05/10

      Bek, compulsion is not the only way to achieve a representative sample.  Had this been designed by people not in Canberra, a website would be set up that allowed VOLUNTEERS to enter their age, gender, occupation, location and whatever other parameters are being used to establish a representative sample.  The government could then select a representative sample off this list , verify participants’ details and offer a small compensation for those who take part.  Having lived in Canberra for four years, I think the current design reflects generally the socially vacuous mind set of the average Canberran.
      If, as this article suggests, blood samples are going to be compulsory, then I think it is very reasonable for people to object and I hope that some do.
      As someone pointed out earlier, Section 51, subsection (xxiiiA) of the Constitution does seem to disallow this (although I don’t agree that it affects Work for the Dole, as the civil conscription sanction only applies to medical and dental services).
      I agree there may well be a need for such data, but most would agree that there is no need for there to be a sting in the tail on how it is collected.

    • Crystal says:

      10:44am | 20/05/10

      The government already “forces” us to complete ABS surveys, My wife accepted the “request” from the abs earlier this year, (accepted on the basis that if she did not, she would be liable to a fine).

      This has seen her answering questions about our lifestyle and financial situation every month. My suggesttions to offer “incorrect information” was met with a statement of.. ” he told me i would be breaking the law and i could be fined or even imprisoned”.

      too late folks, if tyou havent built the cage yet.. its too late, mind you, the government should save themselves the trouble.. and just go ask google smile

    • Flutter says:

      11:39am | 20/05/10

      Same here.  I was “randomly” selected (although the information they already had about me makes me suspicious they had chosen me on purpose) for a survey a couple of years ago.  He came knocking on the door about 7pm just as I was heading out for my weekly social netball game. I told him that it wasn’t a convenient time and he got his nose all out of joint. Told me that I had received a letter saying he would be coming to do the survey - a letter I had not ever received and when I told him that he actually turned fairly nasty and rude. In the end I didn’t let him in to do the survey, but then he would call me pretty much every day trying to set up a time to do the survey (even though I had not ever given him my phone number). I lead a pretty busy life and trying to find an hour during the week was pretty hard for me - all of which I was telling him (plus the fact I did not really want a stranger in my home asking me personal questions). But I wasn’t threatened with a fine - I was threatened with arrest!!!!!  Finally I called the head office of the ABS and lodged a complaint (followed up by complaint in writing) about harrassment. The manager also told me I had to do the survey or faced arrest but that they would arrange a different staff member to do it. I still did not want to do the survey and have a stranger in my home asking personal questions, but was left with pretty much no choice.  So much for democracy and freedom of choice!  Fortunately I have had no follow up from ABS to date.

    • Mayday says:

      11:21am | 20/05/10

      Simply supply incorrect information, how would they know its incorrect and if so how would they police it…......they wouldn’t so if you feel violated having to give this information just have a bit of fun and fictionalise it!

    • Crystal says:

      12:42pm | 20/05/10

      False info was also my answer to it.. however my wife is, and wants to continue to be, a law abiding citizen and certainly does not wish to be fined/imprisoned. (a definite threat)

      The current theory of government is to make virtually everything a crime, thereby allowing them to imprison at will.

      Of course what they dont realise is that this then brings about a belief that all laws are irrelevant and so “the citizens” become less obedient. (see music/movie pirating)

      The fact that many young people now see the police as a threat or someone out to get them, is entirely down to the stupid laws that have been implemented.

    • Don Clark says:

      12:34pm | 20/05/10

      I’d like to point out, again, that the original story and the ABS both explicitly note that the intrusive tests are *voluntary*.

      I did lodge an earlier post on this, linking to both sources - a simple and inoffensive post, but it has apparently been moderated.

      Repeat: the tests part of the ABS Health Survey are *voluntary*.

    • crystal says:

      03:54pm | 20/05/10

      YES.. the test parts are voluntary, the rest is “mandatory” and i personally find the entire enquiry “intrusive”.

      Betelnut… its people who give up their rights without so much a s a question who in end, allow police to shoot people in railway stations because they were running.

      Anthea:  how about they ASK for your information, instead of compel you to give it.

    • Don Clark says:

      05:50pm | 20/05/10

      ABS survey practice and legislation already covered. See my original post above,  07:14pm | 19/05/10

    • Betelnut says:

      01:12pm | 20/05/10

      What a fabulously mature reponse from many bloggers. 

      Yep, supply false information and totally invalidate an expensive and representative sampling of the medical and lifestyle challenges facing Australia in the future.

      Grow Up!

    • Elphaba says:

      01:50pm | 20/05/10

      Betelnut - I don’t have a problem supplying my information if they ask nicely and give me an opt-out option.

      Demanding my details about how I live MY life and then fining me for non-compliance is bullshit.

      I vote, I pay taxes, I have private health insurance, and I take care of myself.  If they want to ASK me for my details, that’s fine.  But they can ram it up their poo chute if they think they can bully me into giving them the information.

    • Betelnut says:

      06:07pm | 20/05/10

      @Elphaba

      It’s an anonymous survey FFS.  Judging by many of these responses, you would think KRudd was coming personally to eat your first born.

      Many aspects in life are or have been mandatory in Australia.  Jury duty, conscription during wartime, payment of child support, voting, driving on the left hand side of the road. ad nausuem…

      Like it or not, living within a society grants you the right of access to community resources like hospitals, courts and schools, but you similarly have responsibilities to ensure their continued and smooth operation.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:16am | 21/05/10

      @Betelnut

      You said it yourself.  There are many complusory things that we participate in.

      So why do I need to be coerced into doing this again?  How about they just ask nicely?

      KRudd will never come for the first born.  He wants more, more, MORE people!

    • What? says:

      01:23pm | 20/05/10

      I wouldn’t worry.  Once the Rudd Govt. sees how unpopular this is they will backflip, or pretend it never happened.

    • anthea says:

      02:41pm | 20/05/10

      what is wrong with you all? I declare personal details when I donate blood and that’s not for the good of my health.
      If its not a survey, how else do they get the detailed data. Hospitals and GPs can’t do it because you only go there if you’re sick… where do you find a cross section of people then?

    • Karen says:

      06:22pm | 20/05/10

      This is a disgusting invasion of privacy- do we live in a communist country? I cant believe they can do this- No-one is going to make me do anything like have someone measure me and weigh me- how wrong is this- please Kevin Rudd we voted for you- do not this ridiculous excuse for a health minister do this. Ask people at randum- fine but no one should be made to do anything they dont want to do and get fined for it- Oh my God this is unbelievable.

    • Nurse M says:

      06:46pm | 20/05/10

      I completely agree (being a future health care worker) that accurate, large sample data is needed. However, I strongly object being “selected” (as if it was a privilege, lucky us) and forced to answer questions about my life that the government has no business, and I do repeat, NO business, to know. Should I be one of the blesseth, I do believe I will suddenly develop an acute amnesia and be unable to remember whether I drink 15 bottles of wine a day, or only 7. Damn all that alcohol plays havoc with your memory. The other reason why I will not be feeling terribly guilty about doing this is that when is the last time government took any useful action on the data they have (in providing health care services)? All areas of primary health care in Australia are starving for funds, services, beds and staff. QLD health can’t pay salaries to the people it employes, and government churns out paper that is nothing but hot air. Check out 2001 “National Strategy for Aging Australia”... Pure fluff, not a gram of flesh on the hot air that undoubtedly had been gathered from the nether region of “Honorable” Kevin Andrews, the minister for aging at the time. I’m not party-bashing, either. Ruddistan is not doing much better on any front of health care provision. I’m not prepared to compromise my privacy for the purpose of short term policy games.

    • Idont Thinkso says:

      11:31am | 22/05/10

      Just remember MOST of what is said is a media beat up cause we don’t want facts to get in the way of a good story.

    • Chris says:

      12:57pm | 25/07/11

      Is there a solicitor reading these comments here who knows of a way out of this?  This is a great business opportunity for you!  50,000 families want to get out of this stupid system.  They are your potential clients!!!!  Please tell us what to do!

 

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