Sometimes I have a moan about my husband to my mates. I’m not talking character assassination – that sort of trash talk is plain nasty – but occasionally I’ll blurt out something that infuriates me.

Yeah, they're from another planet. Photo: Herald Sun.

And, no, I’m not going to go into details here. That would be monstrously mean (and possibly unjustified). Suffice to say, if your 23rd chromosome is XX, I’m guessing you’ve had your own blab or two.

Naturally, my good mates also confide in me. At least, they did. (They’re probably reconsidering it about now.) As long as these chats are good humoured and don’t descend into mockery, I’ve always thought they were perfectly healthy – a bit of emotional cleanse, tone and moisturise.

Me: “It annoys me how he…” 

Her: “Have you thought about…”

Me: “Yes, you’re right, at least he doesn’t…”

And the world is all smiley and sunny again. No one is harmed and that $120 you may have otherwise spent on therapy will go nicely on a new pair of shoes. Of course it means that when we meet up with Pete and Mike (not their real names), I know who bought yet another surfboard and who forgot their daughter’s birthday.

But it doesn’t make me like them less. Actually, I like them more because it’s all these nubbly little imperfections that make us interesting. Idiosyncrasies are the messy scuff marks of our lives; the stuff we show the people we really know. Frankly, the more we dispel the notion of the ‘happily ever after’ marriage and talk about the tricky stuff, the less we expect our own to be perfect.

But what about men? Where does my husband go when he’s suffered the full force of PMT, my frequent bouts of control freakery or just the flippin’ monotony of living with three females who are genetically incapable of picking up a bath mat? Does he blab?

I ask Dan and Chris (again, not their real names). “No,” says Dan, shifting awkwardly and willing my husband back from the bar. “Ange, he only ever says you’re wonderful.” Did I mention Dan is a writer? Of fiction. A few drinks later, I ask Chris. “Ange, it’s the universal male lament – you can’t live with ’em and you can’t kill ’em.”

But they must talk, because these men have stood in bars, watched rugby, skied, shifted furniture and gone on road trips with my husband. Even I know that the Wallabies’ form, Pink Floyd’s greatest hits (are there any?) and the charms of Pippa Middleton aren’t enough to sustain lifelong conversation.

“We’re subtle,” my husband finally relents. “We might occasionally touch on the odd thing, but the consensus is you’re all wired to the wrong Mars bar.”

No, I don’t get it either, but I’m not sure I’m supposed to. And that’s the point – men may prefer action to words, but buying into the popular psychology myth that they’re a bunch of emotional Neanderthals seriously underestimates what they manage to share. The same primeval codes used to slay bison are alive and well on golf courses today.

The difference? They shut up about it. Whether Chris’s wife wants another baby, Dan’s wife is giving him grief, or my husband loathes our new Moroccan inspired quilt, I’ll never know. Why? Because of omertà – the Italian word for the code of silence deeply embedded, not just in the Mafia, but all mankind.

Catch Angela Mollard on Weekend Today, Sundays at 7am on the Nine Network.

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39 comments

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    • acotrel says:

      05:50am | 16/10/11

      I am 69 years of age.  The only men that I know who talk to each other, are around my age or older.  The rest are still all walking on razor blades, - still trying to prove that they are men !

    • B says:

      07:20am | 16/10/11

      @acotrel

      Aha!  Your comments now make a lot more sense since finding that out!

    • Fiona says:

      07:31am | 16/10/11

      They do a bit younger too. My hubbie comes home and tells me fairly personal stuff his work mates have said, just like I’m sure they’re telling their partners. I think a bit came out when we were trying (unsuccessfully) for one of our kids. I would hope that men can get past that “omertà” at least a bit. Having a whinge/vent with your friends is therapeutic. At least you don’t come back home still mad at your mate.

    • Markus says:

      12:24pm | 16/10/11

      @Fiona, it doesn’t solve anything though.
      If my friend pissed me off, what is the point in making everyone but him aware of this fact?

    • Fiona says:

      08:37pm | 16/10/11

      It’s not necessarily just talking about when your partner pisses you off. I don’t know about you but my hubbie and I know when we’ve pissed each other off wnyway. Sometimes talking over what to do with a third party does help.

    • Adrian says:

      12:00pm | 18/10/11

      As a 19 y/o guy, we chat about what pisses us off, what we like at the moment and whats bugging us. etc etc etc
      Dont know where i’d be without my mates giving me advice on things that i just dont understand or have blown out of proportion.

      In my mind if you dont talk to people then your just a big wuss and are afraid of judgement

    • Super D says:

      07:08am | 16/10/11

      Why would you bitch to your mates about minor issues?  I mean you just come across as a pussy.  So what if you don’t like the new carpet.  As far as the rest of the world needs to know it was your top pick and your wife did what she was damn well told and then thanked you for providing her with clear direction.

      From my experience men have no problem talking about serious issues with their mates, just no interest in boring them to tears with pointless minutae.  Mateship is after all sustained by a mutual enjoyment of mates company.  Why would you want to hear your mates bitching about carpets and curtains when you can get that at home from your missus?

    • Chris_D says:

      07:14am | 16/10/11

      @Angela, I don’t know about your husband, but from my point of view, having a young family (3 kids still at home), working and running a business, doing jobs around the house, etc, when I finally get any time to spend with my mates, whether on the golf course or watching the footy, I don’t want to waste that time having a whinge about the Mrs. 

      I’ll be back to my life of drudgery soon enough.  wink

    • Richard M says:

      10:17am | 16/10/11

      In my fairly extensive experience, blokes talk about politics, current events, footy, cricket, golf, holidays, cars, movies etc, but virtually never bitch about trivial domestic stuff.  This would be regarded as boring and sooky.  The only time I’ve ever heard blokes complain bitterly about their wives is when they’re going through a divorce or breakup - and even then, it’s likely to be more about the lawyers, the court, the mother in law etc. Frankly, blokes are much less trivial and bitchy than women.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:39pm | 16/10/11

      Pity that, because if we did talk about our emotions and have closer relationships with our fellow males we wouldn’t be topping ourselves at the rates we do.

    • marley says:

      02:59pm | 16/10/11

      You’re talking about footy, cricket, golf, cars and movies, and you think you’re much less trivial than women?  Ummm.  Less bitchy,  maybe, but less trivial?

    • Condor says:

      06:43pm | 16/10/11

      Marley
      Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

      Considering Angela has admitted women discuss the latter at least Richard M has shown that men have either great or average minds.

    • marley says:

      07:49pm | 16/10/11

      Well, there ya go, Condor.  Never thought that talking footy and cricket amounted to discussing ideas, great or otherwise.  Women discuss trivia; so do men.  It’s just different trivia.  Get over it.

    • acotrel says:

      09:40pm | 16/10/11

      It’s not really ‘bitchy’ that I object to, it’s outright poison, passive resistance and weakness of character, which some women exhibit. I don’t really care if they get a bit grumpy, it comes with the territory, but if nothing is ever resolved, it becomes a nightmare. I don’t know why you would discuss that sort of problem with your mates - why make them feel miserable ? It just spreads the emotional damage !

    • acotrel says:

      09:49pm | 16/10/11

      @marley
      ‘you think you’re much less trivial than women? ‘
      YES ! -  How many women apart from Marie Curie, have won a Nobel peace prize for science ?  How many women world chess champions have there been ?  How many women have designed their own kitchens ?  Women can do more than one thing at once - powder their noses while driving the car !  I’ve never really thought about that much, but ‘trivial’ - that’s a very good description of their thought processes.

    • Robert Smissen Of rural SA says:

      10:17pm | 16/10/11

      @Richard M, remember that Marley is a Canausian they are used to getting under a blanket with their mates

    • Elizabeth1 says:

      06:12am | 17/10/11

      Acotrel-  Some women have been able to overcome enormous structural barriers like not being educated, not being able to work once they married,not being able to own property, not being able to travel unless accompanied by a male,  not being published etc etc. These examples I think you will agree demonstrate that there are women,  if they are heard, who can and do contribute in ways that are not trivial,  1st century Hebrea, Mary Alchemist discovered the formula for hydrochloric acidc. 1800 Germain, Sophia Mathematician developed the modern theory of elasticity
      19th century Manning, Mrs. A.H. Inventor invented the mower and the reaper
      19th century Mitchell, Maria Astronomer
      first female professor of astronomy in US, 1847 - discovered a comet,
      1848 - first woman appointed to the Acadamy of Arts and Sciences, 1875
      - elected president of the American Association for the Advancement of
      Women

    • marley says:

      06:28am | 17/10/11

      @acotrel - how many women have won the “Nobel peace prize” for science?  None.  Geez.  There’s no such beast.  As most women know.

      I believe, however, that there have been about 15 female winners of Nobel prizes in physic, chemistry and medicine.  Not bad, considering that for much of the history of the Nobel, women were a small minority in university science programs.

      How many women have designed their own kitchens?  Quite a few, as a matter of fact.  And how many kitchens have been badly designed by men?  Millions.

      By the way, if you believe that all, most, or even many women “powder their noses while driving the car”  you are providing confirmation that men can be as trivial and as bitchy as women.  That’s kind of an own goal, acotrel.

    • acotrel says:

      06:52am | 17/10/11

      @Elizabeth
      My own daughter is educated to tertiary level, and works as a lawyer.  I’d never be game enough to tell her that her thoughts are trivial !  However I might discuss this important aspect of womens’ mentality with my lovely wife when she comes home next weekend after looking after her mum.

    • marley says:

      01:44pm | 17/10/11

      @RobertSmisson - actually, it’s a bearhide rug.

    • Condor says:

      10:18am | 16/10/11

      If all you’re whining about is the fact he bought a surfboard then you probably do need therapy to get some perspective on life.

      I think men generally accept that part of the territory that comes with marriage is the drudgery of having to pretend to care about a lot of pointless trivial things just to keep the womenfolk happy. We all know it. We all understand it. It only takes a small flicker across another man’s face for the rest of us to understand what’s going on.

      Just because we don’t spend hours sharing our feelings about it doesn’t mean we’re Neanderthals. There’s just no point doing that because it’s not going to change anything.

      The international lament for straight men is: “Women: can’t live with them, can’t have sex with anything else”.

    • Chris_D says:

      02:14pm | 16/10/11

      The international lament for straight men is: “Women: can’t live with them, can’t have sex with anything else”.

      Amen to that Brother! wink

    • acotrel says:

      09:55pm | 16/10/11

      Mine is into trivial big time, but she’s nice to kiss !  My dog is looking better every day.  I might give him a trial kiss when I let him of f the chain tomorrow morning.

    • Markus says:

      12:20pm | 16/10/11

      “Even I know that the Wallabies’ form, Pink Floyd’s greatest hits (are there any?) and the charms of Pippa Middleton aren’t enough to sustain lifelong conversation.”
      Funny, I can’t say I’ve ever struggled for topics of conversation much more interesting than bitching about my significant other or friends.

      Super D says it well above. I know full well that my friends will be there if/when I need to discuss something extremely important or personal with them.
      My missus buying a new handbag that looks exactly the same as one of her other handbags does not fall into this category.

    • Olly says:

      12:36pm | 16/10/11

      “But they must talk, because these men have stood in bars, watched rugby, skied, shifted furniture and gone on road trips with my husband. ............,” Pink Floyd’s greatest hits (are there any?) “.......of course, Floyd Patterson was never pink. He was not a member of the communist party, and wasn’t summoned to appear before the McCarthy trials.  At 21, he became the youngest man to win the world heavyweight title. He was also the first heavyweight boxer to regain the title. He had a record of 55 wins 8 losses and 1 draw, with 40 wins by knockout. He won the gold medal at the 1952 Olympic Games as a middleweight. So there.

    • I, Claudia says:

      12:52pm | 16/10/11

      I am a woman who has never, EVER “vented” about her partner. It’s cowardly. If I’ve got something to say to him, I say it. It amuses me that people, when engaged in the act of bitching, will inevitably justify their blatant insecurities by labeling their behaviour as “venting.”

    • acotrel says:

      10:02pm | 16/10/11

      Claudia, you are my kind of woman.  My wife is afraid of no man, and very few women.  She never takes a backwards step, and I love her for that.  When we have a blue, we clear the air, and resolve the issue.  Then she forgives me !

      Sorry for that - she’s told me that I’m recalcitrant - what does that mean ?

    • Paul says:

      03:01pm | 16/10/11

      @ Angela: The fundamental difference between men and women is this, ‘Men are firegazers, women are communicators.’ I’m single but once a year I get together with a few married mates for a fishing and camping expedition. I would say we are all typical ‘Aussie Blokes’ (I can hear the shrill of the feminazis with that statement). After a hard day on the water I can guarantee this, whilst sitting around the campfire (If the environmentalists haven’t lobbyed council to ban you from lighting one. We end up more remote each year), the most anyone says is, ‘Do you want another beer mate?’ My married mates always say it’s the most relaxing time they’ve ever had.

      PS: For the inner urban environmental crowd whose demographic doesn’t extend beyond 5km of any GPO, we practice catch and release, adhere to size and bag limits if any are taken home to eat, fish only hardbodied or soft plastic lure and we don’t use burley. For the fire, we use a steel firebucket in order not to damage the grass underneath. Leave no trace!

    • Chris L says:

      05:05pm | 16/10/11

      I think the lack of communication is part of being mates. If we want to talk (or more often, listen) about feelings we turn to the females in our lives. Being around guys is a very welcome break from this.

    • acotrel says:

      10:12pm | 16/10/11

      @ChrisL
      I don’t find it any different talking to women than to men.  However I do find that some women seek to exclude men from certain conversations.  In our town there is a group of women who like to socialise, and discuss their personal problems without men being present.  It is a hangover from a bygone era.  I have a fairly good knowledge of medical and relationship matters, and I’m able to hold a conversation without getting judgemental.  But that’s obviously not good enough for the girls. Personally I believe that anyone who gets into that sexist stuf f is a bloody idiot.  A couple of them have really gone down in my opinion !

    • Robert Smissen Of rural SA says:

      10:23pm | 16/10/11

      Women are a lower life form that needs to make noise(chatter) to communicate. Men however are on a far higher plane & communicate silently with thought waves, quite simple really

    • acotrel says:

      06:55am | 17/10/11

      @Robert
      SSSH !  - the thought waves thing is supposed to be part of secret men’s business !

    • marley says:

      07:30am | 17/10/11

      @Acotrel - I expect the women don’t want to include you because they realize you’re a bit of a dinosaur - not all women powder their noses while driving their cars.

    • stephen says:

      09:26pm | 16/10/11

      The problems of marriage are the same as the problems of friendship, i.e. we want what our partner may not, and our language will not, for what ever reason, come to compromise.
      This is important, for, sex aside, ( and I’ll admit that this is paramount in a marriage, but not so dependant as supposed) each person in a relationship has to take an almost political stance, i.e. ’ i will maintain our common wants, but I need to respect my own development as an individual, and I hope, if our union is not strong enough, that I will not lose my emotional bond with you’.
      It’s only the current form of Capitalism which requires and enforces a uniform personality base, and this is the cause of so much family distortion.

      Couples who base their fun and well-being on money will fail, and will be miserable, and will die young.

    • MarkS says:

      08:36am | 17/10/11

      A lot more male to male communication is at a non verbal level. Mate drinks the first beer a bit fast, you raise an eyebrow. He glances in the wives direction. Enough said.

      The wives spend 30 minutes talking about the details and seem to get less out of it.

    • Joan Bennett says:

      11:45am | 17/10/11

      I’m always amazed at what men will put up with for regular ...  Women put up with it too when they stay in the relationship - they just like everyone to know how unhappy they are to be putting up with it.  Why doesn’t everyone just grow up and leave toxic relationships?  Pretty well all the stuff people complain about to me re their partners is a leavable offence, in case you thought I was being harsh.

    • Roland says:

      12:29pm | 17/10/11

      i think it’s really important for men and women to have seperate friends for this reason. of course it’s great having mutual friends to hang out with, but having at least one or two exclusive friends from you partner allows you to vent without causing trouble. the only time i really cracked it at my long term girlfriend was when i overheard her descibing our then problems to a mutual aquaintance. oh man was i livid.

      secondly, i feel sorry for blokes who cant express their feelings to thier mates and partners. i’m not talking about the habit women seem to have of descibing every little thing that went wrong or right in their day. i’ve just seen too many blokey blokes go the the brink (and sometimes beyond, unfortunately) when bad luck repeatedly befalls them, or thier personal demons get the better of them, simply because they are incapable of gaining some outside perspective. if i hadnt learned how to vent when the time is right, i’d be dead. simple as that.

    • Outraged says:

      02:31pm | 17/10/11

      I find this article very patronizing!

      The author thinks men are missing-out because we are not bitching about our friends/life/other mindless chatter.

      Men don’t need to “open up” and talk 24/7…if anything, women need to learn to shut-up once in a while!

    • Markus says:

      03:50pm | 17/10/11

      On second read, it actually starts to become apparent that the author is completely unable to accept the concept that it is not always about her.

 

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